Patterico's Pontifications

12/6/2009

Yes, There Is Racism in America

Filed under: Race — Patterico @ 11:02 am



SEK and other liberals often accuse conservatives of claiming there’s no racism in America. What nonsense. Why, here’s some racism right here:

On the one hand, Ebonie Johnson Cooper doesn’t care that Tiger Woods’ wife and alleged mistresses are white because Woods is “quote-unquote not really black.”

“But at the same time we still see him as a black man with a white woman, and it makes a difference,” said Johnson Cooper, a 26-year-old African-American from New York City. “There’s just this preservation thing we have among one another. We like to see each other with each other.”

The article says that many black women resent it when famous black men date or marry white women — and we learn Obama’s support from blacks may have been influenced by the face that he is married to a black woman:

Although a recent Pew poll showed that 94 percent of blacks say it’s all right for blacks and whites to date, a study published this year in Sociological Quarterly showed that blacks are less likely to actually date outside their race than are other groups.

“There is a call for loyalty that is stronger in some ways than in other racial communities,” said the author of the study, George Yancey, a sociology professor at the University of North Texas and author of the book “Just Don’t Marry One.”

The color of one’s companion has long been a major measure of “blackness” – which is a big reason why the biracial Barack Obama was able to fend off early questions about his black authenticity.

“Had Barack had a white wife, I would have thought twice about voting for him,” Johnson Cooper said.

You want an example of racism, liberals, you got it.

UPDATE: More from William Jacobson and JammieWearingFool.

SEK? Can we get an amen on how racist this is?

113 Responses to “Yes, There Is Racism in America”

  1. ah yes: another dirty little secret that the PTB never want to discuss. racism by any culture other than the predominant one……

    been there, suffered that, routinely.

    its like it was hard wired into our nature or something…. naw, that couldn’t possibly be it.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  2. “Loyalty” sounds like “racism” to me.

    Patricia (b05e7f)

  3. It’s also racist to say that Woods is black when, in fact, he’s genetically linked to a variety of races or ethnicities, particularly that of Asian. However, if he’s a simpleminded, nonsensical, sloppy-minded liberal, then, yea — since surveys indicate that at least 90% of black America aligns itself with liberalism/Democrats — I guess he’s black.

    As for racism from the left, that really shouldn’t be looked upon as surprising when statistics also indicate that a higher percentage of liberals — who love to think of themselves as so compassionate, humane and generous — donate less time, money and blood (literally) to charity than conservatives do.

    Mark (411533)

  4. this was my favorite part…

    “The issue comes in when you choose something white because you think it’s better,” Underwood said. “And then you never date a black woman or a woman of color or you never sample the greatness of the international buffet of human beings. If you never do that, we got a problem.”


    sample the greatness of the international buffet of human beings

    That’s just dumb. The little president man’s Associated Press is really desperate for some racisms.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  5. How on earth does one group get to claim him as their own? Surely they aren’t judging him by the color of his skin

    Woods was born in Cypress, California to Earl (1932-2006) and Kultida (Tida) Woods (born 1944). He is the only child of their marriage but has two half-brothers, Earl Jr. (born 1955) and Kevin (born 1957), and one half-sister, Royce (born 1958) from the 18-year marriage of Earl Woods and his first wife, Barbara Woods Gray. Earl, a retired United States Army lieutenant colonel and Vietnam War veteran, was of mixed African American, Chinese and Native American ancestry. Kultida (née Punsawad), originally from Thailand, is of mixed Thai, Chinese, and Dutch ancestry. This makes Woods himself one-quarter Chinese, one-quarter Thai, one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch.[14] He refers to his ethnic make-up as “Cablinasian””

    Dana (e9ba20)

  6. So to Mr. Underwood, women are a buffet?

    Sexisms be alive and well too I guess.

    chaos (9c54c6)

  7. Heh! There’s a joke with a lot of truth in it:

    A Greek mother wants her son to marry a Greek girl. Until he’s thirty. And then she wants him to marry any girl as long as she’s not black. Until he’s forty. And then she just wants him to marry a girl.

    I’ve seen what Patterico is talking about personally. Black ladies looking at a black man with a white woman. If looks could kill. Those black ladies, at that moment, qualified for membership in the Ku Klux Klan.

    nk (df76d4)

  8. Her name is Ebonie, mind you.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  9. Although a recent Pew poll showed that 94 percent of blacks say it’s all right for blacks and whites to date, a study published this year in Sociological Quarterly showed that blacks are less likely to actually date outside their race than are other groups.

    There could be other factors;

    First Black Guy: Hey man, have you ever dated a white woman.
    Second Black Guy: No man, every time I try my face and eyes start to burn, tears run down my face, my throat closes up and I can’t breathe. How about you?
    First Black Guy: Same thing, man. Every time I try my face and eyes start to burn, tears run down my face, my throat closes up and I can’t breathe.
    Second Black Guy: Do you think it could be the Mace?

    nk (df76d4)

  10. “The article says that many black women resent it when famous black men date or marry white women…”

    Talk about understatement, I’ve seen it firsthand. Black women are seriously outraged at seeing “their” men go for white chicks.

    One wealthy and single black woman put it like this, “There ain’t no descent black men available, the white girls got ‘um all!”

    ropelight (79cdd5)

  11. sample the greatness of the international buffet of human beings

    Brings to mind the old Twilight Zone episode “To Serve Man”.

    Dr Carlo Lombardi (eac69e)

  12. You know, Spike Lee used to say that isn’t racism, because to be racist requires power.

    I always thought that explanation was stupid. Prejudice, bigotry, racism, whatever little semantic games people like to play, what that dude said is wrong.

    So, I guess this means you guys can finally acknowledge that Robert Stacy McCain is a racist too? You know, since he too believes blacks should not marry whites and he too is fascinated with racial purity and all?

    What? Your moral objection to people opposing miscegenation is based upon the color of skin of the person holding the opinion? How wonderfully consistent of you.

    timb (449046)

  13. timb, more dishonest rhetoric from you, I see. It takes a special kind of dishonesty to put words in others’ mouths and then insult them for your words.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  14. Comment by timb — 12/6/2009 @ 11:48 am

    No, it has to do with taking the opposite side of any issue you are dealing with; since historically, you have demonstrated a pronounced ability to talk out of your ass on most things (which would be logically consistent since your head resides there).

    AD - RtR/OS! (f2588c)

  15. […] from Hospital – UPDATE: Facial Lacerations Caused by Wife? Patterico’s Pontifications: Yes, There Is Racism in America and What? No Sex Clause? and TMZ: Tiger’s Wife Caused Those Facial Lacerations and Breaking: […]

    Tiger Woods’ Infidelity: More Mistresses, 4th One Revealed, Report That His Bodyguards Helped Him Find Women « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042)

  16. SEK and other liberals often accuse conservatives of claiming there’s no racism in America.

    FAIL.

    (Unless by “conservative” you mean “Jeff Goldstein and Darleen Click,” and well, that’s nice company you’re trying to keep. Even then, I note that they don’t even believe what they’re saying and that their appeal to a post-racial America is a disingenuous attempt to take the rhetorical high ground.)

    Can we get an amen on how racist this is?

    Because I’ve claimed that there’s no such thing as black racism? Again:

    FAIL.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  17. timb, more dishonest rhetoric from you, I see. It takes a special kind of dishonesty to put words in others’ mouths and then insult them for your words.

    Hey, smoking doesn’t cause cancer guy, would it be out of order to ask what the f*ck you and that AD jackass are talking about? Whether Spike Lee said that? or, rather you people condemn “black” racism, but turn a deaf ear to mccain’s racism/ For God’s sake, the links to his writings on Free Republic, on usenet, in letters to editor of the American Renaissance magazine, and in his own words on the Alan Colmes radio show are freely available.

    I’ll give you an unfair choice: have you not researched the links (too lazy), couldn’t understand them (too stupid) or do you agree with him (too racist). You choice, jackass. Or, you could just go back to telling us how Steve Milloy is a god.

    timb (449046)

  18. This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read:

    Black ladies looking at a black man with a white woman. If looks could kill. Those black ladies, at that moment, qualified for membership in the Ku Klux Klan.

    Ahem:

    The IKA hates: Muds, spics, kikes and niggers.

    Yep, those black ladies sure are qualified to be in the Klan!

    SEK (9e7eee)

  19. SEK:

    Was that an admission that you believe this is racism?

    Patterico (e47c35)

  20. Comment by SEK — 12/6/2009 @ 12:57 pm

    And SEK utterly misses the point behind nk’s statement.

    Well done sir, well done indeed. Rarely have I seem someone be so incredibly obtuse without a hint of irony.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  21. timb, your comment is just more of your lies. Rather typical of you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  22. 18.This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read:

    Then I guess you don’t read the stuff you write.

    And since you’re an expert on the Klan, is there anything it hates worse than a black man with a white woman? Jackass.

    nk (df76d4)

  23. Don’t click on SEK’s link at #18 – “Ahem”

    It takes you to a KKK site.

    SEK, you dirty so n so! You ass, how dare you disguise that link. You should apologize and ask Patterico to withdraw it.

    ropelight (79cdd5)

  24. Was that an admission that you believe this is racism?

    Do I believe that black racism is racism? Absolutely. Do I believe it’s the same thing as white racism? Absolutely not.

    And SEK utterly misses the point behind nk’s statement.

    No, I didn’t. I was being overly literal to make a point.

    And since you’re an expert on the Klan, is there anything it hates worse than a black man with a white woman?

    Because the black community has a long tradition of considering miscegenation the worst of all sins? Because the black community has a long history of considering its members to belong to a superior race? Sorry, nk, but history trumps your hyperbole.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  25. Several years ago, I read a review of a Denzel Washington movie that I still haven’t seen. I don’t remember the name of the movie, but, evidently, it contains a scene in which ‘Zel rejects the “advances” of a white woman.

    Anyway, according to the reviewer, when ‘Zel turned the white woman down, most/all of the black women in the theater cheered – LOUDLY. The reviewer proceeded to turn a movie review into an explanation of why it’s perfectly O.K. for such behavior to take place.

    To get to the point: I never cease to be amazed/amused by the self-styled sophisticates who cannot/will not accept the fact that many of the most blatant, no-doubt-about-it racists in this country are people “of color”.

    If I recall correctly, this same bunch of sophisticates was similarly shocked and outraged when Bill Cosby made the unfathomable suggestion that a lot of black folks need to do a better job of raising their children.

    Of course, these self-styled sophisticates bend over backwards to explain and excuse “black” racism, but they’re not the least bit interested in addressing the “causes” of “white” racism. To them, it appears, some whites are just inherently evil.

    This existence of this rather obvious double-standard – which, sadly, infects some conservatives as well as many liberals – is further proof that these self-styled sophisticates are among the chief purveyors of racism in this country.

    P.S. How ’bout them USC Trojans? (snicker)

    Bubba Maximus (456175)

  26. I have friends who have friends who have friends who are black and even some that are hispanic.

    I think that proves that I’m not a racist in spite of all the white privelege bullshit the academy is trying to push these day to make people feel guilty for being born white. Plus there’s that lovely structural racism crap that Obama follows. He can’t necessarily point it out all the time, but he knows it when he sees it and it seems like it will never go away until the government makes it go away.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  27. You ass, how dare you disguise that link.

    I didn’t disguise the link. If I had, it would’ve looked like this instead of having “kkk” in the address.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  28. Because the black community has a long tradition of considering miscegenation the worst of all sins? Because the black community has a long history of considering its members to belong to a superior race? Sorry, nk, but history trumps your hyperbole

    Who needs tradition to hate? Who needs a long history of anything to hate? Who needs any rational rational reason to hate? Sorry, SEK, but you are a second rate thinker.

    (And one who has not even mastered a small part of his own discipline — figures of speech.)

    nk (df76d4)

  29. Here I grew up thinking that all racism was wrong, and now I’m told that some racism is more equal than other racism.
    Gee, how do I get on that jury?
    Do they have a special handshake?
    Perhaps they use a secret-decoder ring?
    Perhaps Brother Bradley knows, he’s our resident secret-decoder ring expert.

    AD - RtR/OS! (f2588c)

  30. nk, the answer is that SEK will just keep redefining “racism” to fit the hypocrisy.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  31. Do I believe that black racism is racism? Absolutely. Do I believe it’s the same thing as white racism? Absolutely not.

    I remember in law school I got into a discussion about hate crimes with an ultra-liberal friend of mine. He ultimately agreed that while it doesn’t make logistical sense, he thinks a white person should be punished more heavily for attacking a black person than a black person should be for attacking a white person, regardless of their subjective mental states and motivations, solely because of nebulous “history” arguments. Your quote reminds me of that. If that’s not the argument you’re making, could you clarify?

    Racism, whatever its form, is vile.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  32. Just cause the Associated Press bigot is against mixing races doesn’t mean that Tiger’s racist.

    He’s sort of a slut. But he’s not racist.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  33. Also he’s kind of stupid.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  34. I never cease to be amazed/amused by the self-styled sophisticates who cannot/will not accept the fact that many of the most blatant, no-doubt-about-it racists in this country are people “of color” …

    Of course, these self-styled sophisticates bend over backwards to explain and excuse “black” racism, but they’re not the least bit interested in addressing the “causes” of “white” racism. To them, it appears, some whites are just inherently evil.

    I take it back, nk. This is now the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. No one claims that white racists are “inherently evil.” They claim, going all the way back to antebellum South, that they were racists because it was in their social and financial interests to keep other human beings as chattel; they were then racists for resisting efforts to grant their “property” the rights they possessed by virtue of being human; they then were racist because when they lost their “property,” they were threatened by the increased competition for manual labor; they then were racist because they attempted to prevent their former “property” from attaining the full status of citizenship; they were then racist for etc. etc. etc. until the present day.

    Moreover, racism without power fails to exert the same pernicious pressure on society. Racist beliefs among minorities don’t have the power to systematically exclude whites from access to the social, political and financial institutions of American society. Intellectually, it’s just as offensive, but you can’t equate the effects of racism against whites to those of white racism.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  35. Who needs tradition to hate? Who needs a long history of anything to hate? Who needs any rational rational reason to hate? Sorry, SEK, but you are a second rate thinker.

    I think there’s an undercurrent that the group which has historically been subject to more abuse has more of a right to be upset. It implies the historically-dominant group contributed to the problem. Taken to the extreme, it holds that the majority group is more evil because we just don’t know if the minority group would be racist/as racism absent the historical abuse. So I suppose the question is, does SEK believe the minority group would have subjected the majority to abuse had the roles been reversed?

    I think of this argument sort of like a voluntary manslaughter version of racism: Sure it’s bad what you did, but hey you have a right to be upset.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  36. #27, SEK, OK, you are correct, kkk is in the address. I withdraw my indignation.

    You’ve taught me a valuable lesson and I’ll be more careful when responding to you. My opinion of your intent remains unchanged.

    ropelight (79cdd5)

  37. Who needs tradition to hate? Who needs a long history of anything to hate? Who needs any rational rational reason to hate?

    Racism is almost always related to the social fiction of race, therefore its basis is always an appeal to some fictional amalgam of culture and tradition that grants the racist his or her sense of superiority. Don’t believe me? Ask a Son or Daughter of the Confederacy.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  38. Do I believe it’s the same thing as white racism? Absolutely not.

    But I bet you’d be struggling with the notion of it not being the exact same thing if the black women in question (or black people in general) who were indignant about whites dating blacks — black males in particular — had the political and party affiliations of a Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell.

    And it would be a lot more constructive if the black women so unhappy about blacks dating or marrying whites started looking in the mirror and asking: “Is the idiotic leftism — the Democrat-Party-good, Republican-Party-bad mindset — that pervades black America — and which I buy into — really a good thing??! Is the huge amount of socio-cultural dysfunction that roils far too many males in the black community, and thereby reduces the number of ideal males to date and marry, exacerbated by the sloppy-ass liberalism that so much of black America has been falling for, for decades and decades?!”

    Mark (411533)

  39. I’m not going to do the dozens with you (anymore), SEK. For one reason, it’s my patron saint’s day and he was known for his charity.

    nk (df76d4)

  40. Interesting to note that when one tries to break down racism into various forms by bringing into the mix historical reasons while seeking to explain them away inside one ethnic group as opposed to another, one also simultaneously opens the door to justifying acts of hate, hence racism. That’s what’s so dangerous about it – attempting to make hate not only acceptable but morally right with a particular group of people. Because it’ not. It never is. And some things are really that black and white.

    Dana (e9ba20)

  41. Moreover, racism without power fails to exert the same pernicious pressure on society. Racist beliefs among minorities don’t have the power to systematically exclude whites from access to the social, political and financial institutions of American society. Intellectually, it’s just as offensive, but you can’t equate the effects of racism against whites to those of white racism.

    I’m not particularly interested in the impact of such racism as a whole on society with respect to this particular discussion.

    I’m interested in whether you believe on an individual level holding racist views is equally contemptible. Of course racism by any group that holds power is, as a whole, more damaging to society as a whole. The question is whether every individual who contributes to the overall effect is deserving of our scorn, regardless of how proportionally damaging such views are in the aggregate by other members of that individual’s race.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  42. SEK Are you a fucking Idiot?

    Black female jurors walking out of the OJ trial said clearly that they voted for acquittal because he should never have married (in their minds) a white woman.

    I have seen black racism in hiring in Louisiana and Texas.

    European racism makes anything in the US seem tame.
    My favorite bar in Naples, Italy was owned by a black ex-NYC cop and disparaged by the owner of my favorite restaurant at “that black bar”.

    On the same vein, Tony’s wife disparaged the restaurant as that “Hungarian woman”.

    So much for the famous European open mindedness.

    MaaddMaaxx (b91eb0)

  43. He ultimately agreed that while it doesn’t make logistical sense, he thinks a white person should be punished more heavily for attacking a black person than a black person should be for attacking a white person, regardless of their subjective mental states and motivations, solely because of nebulous “history” arguments.

    I don’t think that the historical argument is necessarily related to the present day issue. There I was simply countering the idiotic notion that people assume “white people are inherently evil.”

    As for the argument you present above, in terms of social status, I feel the same way about it as I do on toddler-on-toddler violence.* A 7-year-old who hits a 3-year-old should be punished more harshly than a 3-year-old who hits a 7-year-old because while hitting is always bad, it’s more dangerous for a 7-year-old to attack a 3-year-old than vice versa. Both deserve to be sent to time-out, but the older child might go without dinner too.

    *You’ll note that all racists are analogical toddlers here.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  44. I’m interested in whether you believe on an individual level holding racist views is equally contemptible.

    Then you may want to refer the material you quoted without, apparently, having read:

    Intellectually, it’s just as offensive…

    SEK (9e7eee)

  45. But is the black community eager to destroy Mr. Woods? I think the AP article suggests they are. Cause of he likes white women.

    That’s very retro I think. That sort of thing you don’t think of as happening anymore.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  46. SEK, you need to do a better job with that toddler analogy. Really, you do. Because a whole bunch of people are just going to tell you why.

    nk (df76d4)

  47. Then you may want to refer the material you quoted without, apparently, having read:

    Intellectually, it’s just as offensive…

    Oh, no. I read it.

    I’m trying to pin you down into whether you think it’s equally contemptible, morally, ethically, whatever. I’ve run into plenty of people who think something can be “intellectually[]…offensive” and yet not ACTUALLY think it’s offensive. That’s because I’m quite a number of people would excuse the kinds of racism Patterico quoted on the grounds that while it’s intellectually offensive we can’t really fault people for thinking that way because of history. As such, it would not be contemptible or worthy of scorn, just regrettable. There’s a difference.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  48. If there is black racism, where is it? Who are the black bigots? Which groups or organizations pursue black racist goals? What are their leaders names?Who should we ostracize for this backward, evil, and wrong kind of thought? When will 60 mintues expose these bad people? I have never seen a MSM program about this issue.

    highpockets (bb65bc)

  49. For some reason, this data seems relevant in light of some of the anecdotes above:

    Support for interracial dating among African Americans remains overwhelming: 94% say it is all right for blacks and whites to date, which is little changed from recent values surveys. Whites’ views also have remained stable – 79% agree it is all right for blacks and whites to date each other. More blacks (64%) than whites (52%) completely agree that interracial dating is acceptable.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  50. 45.But is the black community eager to destroy Mr. Woods? I think the AP article suggests they are. Cause of he likes white women.

    That’s very retro I think. That sort of thing you don’t think of as happening anymore.

    Comment by happyfeet — 12/6/2009 @ 1:48 pm

    Nah, it’s because Mr. Woods has disavowed his “black heritage”. Sorry, no link, but he has emphasized his non-black ancestry in the past. And then went on to prove it by getting a job, staying off welfare, and staying out of prison. He did not do a good job keeping it in his pants, though. That was the one-fourth black that he is.

    nk (df76d4)

  51. SEK, you need to do a better job with that toddler analogy. Really, you do. Because a whole bunch of people are just going to tell you why.

    LOL. Oh, my.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  52. Concerning the KKK, SEK wrote:

    Sorry, nk, but history trumps your hyperbole.

    History wrote:

    October 22, 1868
    While campaigning for re-election, Republican U.S. Rep. James Hinds (R-AR) is assassinated by Democrat terrorists who organized as the Ku Klux Klan

    April 20, 1871
    Republican Congress enacts the Ku Klux Klan Act, outlawing Democratic Party-affiliated terrorist groups which oppressed African-Americans

    October 18, 1871
    After violence against Republicans in South Carolina, President Ulysses Grant deploys U.S. troops to combat Democrat terrorists who formed the Ku Klux Klan

    September 14, 1874
    Democrat white supremacists seize Louisiana statehouse in attempt to overthrow racially-integrated administration of Republican Governor William Kellogg; 27 killed

    October 3, 1924
    Republicans denounce three-time Democrat presidential nominee William Jennings Bryan for defending the Ku Klux Klan at 1924 Democratic National Convention

    August 17, 1937
    Republicans organize opposition to former Ku Klux Klansman and Democrat U.S. Senator Hugo Black, appointed to U.S. Supreme Court by FDR; his Klan background was hidden until after confirmation

    June 9, 1964
    Republicans condemn 14-hour filibuster against 1964 Civil Rights Act by U.S. Senator and former Ku Klux Klansman Robert Byrd (D-WV), who still serves in the Senate

    How bout what history wrote? That’s some interesting stuff there, wouldn’t you say?

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  53. SEK:

    You seem to have trouble answering a simple question.

    I didn’t ask you whether black racism is racism.

    I asked whether the attitudes on display in the article I linked are racist.

    Is Ebonie a racist?

    It’s a clear question. Are you capable of a clear answer?

    Patterico (e47c35)

  54. 7 year olds aren’t toddlers.

    7 year olds are smarter than 3 year olds. Their brains are more fully developed.
    7 year olds are more physically developed than 3 year olds.

    So I’m thinking if someone compared a white person to a 7 year old, and a black person to a 3 year old, that could be considered really, really racist.

    MayBee (3c4f33)

  55. Patterico, not fair, you have to give him enough time to reformulate a new definition of racism.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  56. I will repeat more clearly. Black people who do not think Tiger is black think that because he has a job, is not on welfare, and has stayed out of prison. They might cut him some slack because he cheated on his wife with at least two, and maybe six, women.

    nk (df76d4)

  57. That’s a very good point about how black people approve of interracial dating at greater rates than black people. I think a lot of white people start off being more accepting but their parents freak out and lose their minds and get yelly to where they just never do that again.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  58. “SEK:

    You seem to have trouble answering a simple question.”

    Patterico – Is this the first time you’ve noticed?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  59. oh… than *white* people I mean. I think I was having a flashback. I remember dad kicked the couch to where we couldn’t fix it we just came home a week later and there was a new couch and nobody said anything.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  60. nk – But he’s got an Escalade, so there’s a tradeoff.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  61. The old couch was green and the new couch was green so it was very easy to just pretend.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  62. Tiger Woods says he is one-quarter Chinese, one-quarter Thai, one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch.

    This makes him 1/2 Asian

    People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures and the Dutch … Damn those Dutch

    Neo (7830e6)

  63. 7 year olds aren’t toddlers.

    Go with 4-year-olds instead.

    You seem to have trouble answering a simple question.

    No, I really don’t. You first suggested I believed about all conservatives what I only believe about Jeff and Darleen. Were I to say something like that about you, you’d hector me into a retraction.

    Can we get an amen on how racist this is?

    I answered that with a question that indicated that I believed yours was offensive. If there’s any doubt in your mind as to what my answer meant, you’re being deliberately difficult despite knowing exactly what I meant … and I’m going to respond by being deliberately difficult too. Just because, as you well know, it’s fun to be an asshole sometimes! You know what, I’m going to not be an asshole:

    It’s a clear question. Are you capable of a clear answer?

    Of course I fucking do. That was fucking obvious from my first fucking response.*

    *I decided not to follow your lead and be an asshole, but to curse instead. I hope you appreciate the difference. Now, if you’ll stop being an asshole, I’ll stop cursing. Deal?

    [Note: I had to fish this out of the filter because of the profanity. — P]

    SEK (9e7eee)

  64. Our esteemed host quoted:

    Although a recent Pew poll showed that 94 percent of blacks say it’s all right for blacks and whites to date, a study published this year in Sociological Quarterly showed that blacks are less likely to actually date outside their race than are other groups.

    Really? It would seem that whites would be gar less likely to date outside their race simply because, as the majority, we have less opportunity to do so.

    There is also a disparate impact factor. Each black/white couple has a greater impact on the percentage of blacks who date outside their race than on whites who do so. As you get to smaller ethnic groups, percentagewise, the impact of a single interracial couple becomes increasingly larger.

    The statistically-challenged Dana (474dfc)

  65. I thought Native Americans used to be Asians before they walked over here

    SteveG (ece883)

  66. Go with 4-year-olds instead.

    Because in my view, until they nest clauses into complex sentences and write them down, they’re all children in my book. (Except, you know, for yours. Yours is truly special. So special, in fact, that yes, I would love to see pictures of the first time it didn’t urinate on itself!)

    SEK (9e7eee)

  67. Tiger has always claimed that he was not black, but “Cablasian,” so the idea that the black community would ever had supported him as a full member seems quite hypocritical IMHO. Additionally, you could postulate that some blacks would dislike him not just for marrying a white woman, but also for black on black racism. It’s a story as old as the hills, played across every culture. The blacks of Caribbean origins look down on the Cuban blacks, the Cuban blacks look down on the African blacks, and so on.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  68. SEK:

    Did you see my question?

    Patterico (e47c35)

  69. If I’m not mistaken, America is the best place in the world for a black person to live – even including black majority countries in Africa. If you were black, would you rather live in Rwanda, Somalia, even South Africa, or America?

    Where are the high-level black gov’t officials and elected leaders in Europe? Where is a black person more likely to be in the middle-class or above?

    So, when do we stop prosecuting america for it’s history? When can we stop playing the race game? When can we stop pretending that america is the worst place on earth for black people?

    Monkeytoe (5dad97)

  70. Who is SEK quoting in #65?

    MayBee (3c4f33)

  71. that’s a good question

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  72. SEK stupidly said:

    Because in my view, until they nest clauses into complex sentences and write them down, they’re all children in my book.

    My brother said:

    He also recounted, in a general way, his experience teaching first-year composition in college. He said there were so many things wrong with papers that he had to ignore a lot of it and focus in on the 5 most important issues in the papers. “How can I make them write better without crushing them (or something to that effect).” I said something about how people need to use a dictionary and he had a retort I didn’t expect. He said he thought part of his students’ (He teaches first-year ESL students, remember.) problem was an over-reliance on the dictionary.

    I was definitely surprised by this statement. But he explained his statement. Last year, he had a Japanese student who was very proficient in spoken English. That student’s paper had multiple nested sentences within multiple nested sentences of sentences. And those sentences used very large words. And my brother was thinking “I should know what this person is trying to say but I can’t make heads or tails of this.” (He said, as an aside, that his students this year are Chinese and isn’t it interesting first year students from Communist China are buying top-of-the-line Mercedes-Benz cars for their 4-year US University time?) That wasn’t quite what I expected, but it’s understandable. As he said, people try to sound more intelligent when they write than they do when they just talk. And, as he sees it, that is a pronounced problem with ESL students. That strong desire to show a higher ability (in this case, in a foreign language) than possessed.

    My brother skooled SEK.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  73. I remember in college we had to evaluate each other’s papers in this one class and I made this poor girl cry. She wouldn’t leave her dorm. Her roommate tracked me down and yelled at me. The professor had a talk with me. He said yes she can’t write but you have to address people on their own level. I felt bad.

    She was white. Thank God.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  74. I bet a lot of people in the black community will be more wary or unhappy about what’s implied below — ie, Woods isn’t a usual-suspect, garden-variety liberal, who also happens to be of “color” — than whether Tiger Woods is dating or marrying (or fooling around with) non-black women.

    washingtontimes.com, June 2009

    Tiger Woods is taking a much more high-profile approach to his Wednesday Pro-Am group at his AT&T National this year.

    While most of us are either still in bed, sipping our first cup of coffee or sitting in traffic on Wednesday morning, Woods will be teeing it up at 6:30 a.m. with Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo and House Minority Leader John Boehner (Ohio Republican).

    In the tournament’s first year, 2007, Woods played the Pro-Am with two members of the military, and former President George H.W. Bush joined him for the last few holes….Even Woods’ caddy that summer was a military member, whom Woods allowed to sink a put on the seventh hole.

    Since it’s D.C., and there’s a high-profile politician in the mix, the talk immediately turned to Woods’ party affiliation. But, good luck getting Woods to tip his hand on that one. He’s shown the tendency to hit it down the middle (pun intended) on that issue, much like his fellow Team Nike member Michael Jordan (“Republicans wear sneakers, too,” Jordan once said.)

    After the 2008 presidential election, Woods told CNBC that Obama’s election was “absolutely incredible. He represents America. He’s multiracial. I was hoping it would happen in my lifetime.” And while many point out that Woods spoke at the Lincoln Memorial on Sunday, Jan. 18, to kick off the “We Are One” celebration leading up to the inauguration of President Obama, Woods did not once mention the president’s name. Woods spoke about his late father, the military and Abraham Lincoln.

    Boehner, the de facto face of the Republican party, at first seems a curious choice for inclusion in Woods’ group on Wednesday; there certainly are more popular, interesting or outgoing congressmen on the Hill. But few take their golf as serious as Boehner, who carries a 7.5 handicap.

    Unfortunately, among too many members of black America, being a “progressive” is the first qualification in order to be authentically “black,” authentically proud, authentically defiant, authentically non-subservient, authentically non-Uncle-Tom-ish.

    Of course, all the liberalism that dominates the part of American society made up of so-called African-Americans has created a lot of stability, happiness, prosperity, safety, generosity, humaneness, honesty, trustworthiness, reliability, non-flakiness. Yep, uh-huh.

    Mark (411533)

  75. SEK,

    Let me try again.

    Are the attitudes on display in the article I linked racist?

    Is Ebonie a racist?

    I believe this is now the fourth time I have asked. I have not yet received a clear answer.

    Patterico (64318f)

  76. Also, SEK, you keep italicizing an alleged quote about 4-year-olds that none of the rest of us can find, and we’re wondering where that quote came from.

    Patterico (64318f)

  77. And in the same day as this wonderful bon mot, we have an editorial in the Chicago Tribune suggesting Obama earned the Nobel prize merely by being elected while black:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-perspec1206nobeldec06,0,1706479.story

    So on one hand, successful mixed-heritage individual with a preference for blondes, who appears to have been caught in ‘transgressions’ – is being ostracized by “his ethnic brethren”. And another mixed-heritage gentleman who (ahem) orates himself into a the ultimate Peter Principle job description deserved an affirmative-action million dollar pat on the head and a Peace Prize.

    Really, I’m thinking the strongest bastion of racism remaining in this country is among a certain ethnic and political-leaning echelon of the fourth estate.

    Yes, I’m white. I guess that just means I’m the real racist by finding all of this just sickening.

    rtrski (75d09a)

  78. As for the argument you present above, in terms of social status, I feel the same way about it as I do on toddler-on-toddler violence.* A 7-year-old who hits a 3-year-old should be punished more harshly than a 3-year-old who hits a 7-year-old because while hitting is always bad, it’s more dangerous for a 7-year-old to attack a 3-year-old than vice versa. Both deserve to be sent to time-out, but the older child might go without dinner too.

    you can’t equate the effects of racism against whites to those of white racism.

    So if there’s a white truck driver and a black bank Executive Vice President the truck driver causes more damage because he “holds power” by virtue of being white whereas the black VP has no power by virtue of being black. This is of course idiotic and is what passes for enlightened analysis in liberal land. But that’s apparently what your analogy is supposed to demonstrate. It illustrates the stupidity of the whole liberal concept of racial group power.

    For that matter a racist white VP should be able to do no more damage than a racist black VP.

    As long as there are no actual laws discriminating in favor of a group, racism is on an individual level in terms of concrete effects. To any reasonably intelligent person, the black Executive VP’s racism has the potential to cause far more harm than the white truck driver’s. Your retarded analogy is at the heart of affirmative action “logic”. It’s based on group logic which doesn’t make any actual sense but makes the retart liberal feel enlightened.

    In any case, what’s a concrete example of how that toddler analogy is supposed to work in the real world with respect to white racists vs black racists, assuming we accepted your essentially unsubstantiated claim the white racists can do more damage than black? Is this all just how we’re supposed to verbally react to white vs black racism or is it supposed to be more concrete?

    Gerald A (a66d02)

  79. SEK,

    Let me try again.

    Are the attitudes on display in the article I linked racist?

    Is Ebonie a racist?

    I believe this is now the fourth time I have asked. I have not yet received a clear answer.

    That’s pretty much what I’m asking too, SEK. The closest, I think, you’ve come is saying”Intellectually, it’s just as offensive,” but as I noted earlier I think that’s a copout.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  80. Ebonie is intellectually racist, but since her group does not hold power (Obama, Tiger, Oprah, LeBron notwithstanding) she is not an actual racist, and even if she was, it is a version of racism that is far less bad. And, if you do not denounced RSM, you are a racist.

    JD (f483eb)

  81. Myron tried this whole “racism is dead” meme out within the last week.

    JD (f483eb)

  82. Oh, so SEK is quoting himself.

    To be honest, I would treat a 4 year old that hit a 3 year old the same as I would treat a 3 year old that hit a 4 year old.
    I’m still not sure why using a smarter, stronger group to represent white people in an analogy about racism is a good call, though.

    MayBee (3c4f33)

  83. Cory J,

    He didn’t say THIS QUOTE was “intellectually offensive” but that “[r]acist beliefs among minorities” are intellectually offensive.

    He VERY POINTEDLY has refused to express a specific opinion regarding Ebonie’s statements. And all the cursing and gum-flapping in the world won’t obscure that very clear reluctance to give a simple answer to a simple question.

    I don’t think he’ll ever answer it. He’s afraid of having it quoted back to him in the future.

    Prove me wrong, Scott. Give a clear answer to my simple question.

    Patterico (64318f)

  84. […] my last post, I quoted an article and asked whether this is racism: On the one hand, Ebonie Johnson Cooper doesn’t care that Tiger […]

    Patterico's Pontifications » Is This Racism? (e4ab32)

  85. Ron Grossman is a liar I think. If the first black president had been a conservative there’s no way in hell the dirty socialist scandis would be giving him their gay little medal.

    no way in hell.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  86. Fair enough. I was being charitable by assuming he believed the statements were an example of “[r]acist beliefs among minorities,” but I see what you mean that he hasn’t committed even to that.

    Cory J (e9e07a)

  87. Some people really need to get out more.
    Using SPLC as your go to source on Sons of Confederate Veterans is really going to skew the results of your.. ummmm.. scholarship.

    99% of the 20,000 or so members feel this way about their heritage:

    “Intellectual analyses of national policy are subject to constant re-evaluation by historians as the decades roll by, but duty is a constant, frozen in the context of the moment it was performed. Duty is action, taken after listening to one’s leaders, and weighing risk and fear against the powerful draw of obligation to family, community, nation, and the unknown future.
    We, the progeny who live in that future, were among the intended beneficiaries of those frightful decisions made so long ago. As such, we are also the caretakers of the memory, and the reputation, of those who performed their duty — as they understood it — under circumstances too difficult for us ever to fully comprehend.”
    – James Webb

    Reputation and honor of ancestors is important to some people… it may be politically incorrect, but what is more important… family? or some professor?

    SteveG (ece883)

  88. Andy Rooney of 60 minutes fame sorta said it well some years ago.

    “Wont it be nice we we are all brown”?

    (I should know better than to post race baiting comments like that), I feel dirty now.

    TC (0b9ca4)

  89. Why does this matter? I am really tired of being accused of something that as far as I am concerned is Bull—-. Barack Obama who happens to be 50% WHITE is not qualified to be President. It has nothing to do with his skin color he is not qualified period!!!

    Canesfan (3cbb54)

  90. It is prolly racist to note that Teh One is half-white, a construct rarely, if ever, used by the media or his sycophants. Codewords and dog-whistles and all that …

    JD (344488)

  91. The Sycophants & media are the worst offenders. Along with their usual cheerleaders…i.e. Jesse, Al, ACLU, NAACP and so on…………

    Canesfan (3cbb54)

  92. At #34, SEK writes

    This is now the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.

    and then proceeds to write some of the most hysterical and moronic comments I’ve ever read.

    SEK, you are a f*cking idiot.

    I lost several IQ points reading your crap.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  93. Patterico, do you see what I have been saying about SEK for some time now? I mean, look at #63. He keeps claiming that people don’t debate in good faith with him, and his actions are…um…not precisely a beacon of good example.

    He is just unhappy you are demonstrating his own…well, prejudices. And notice how he can’t decide to use a “twee” faux-intellectual response style, or try to “tough talk” approach with profanity, to show just how superior he is.

    Honestly, Patterico, why are you trying to engage this guy?

    You already have the answer you were looking for, don’t you think?

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  94. I like the guy. Lately his mode of argumentation has annoyed me some, but that happens to me with a lot of friends. Probably we could work it out better over the phone than over the Internet.

    Anyway, I ask people to refrain from comments like calling him a “fucking idiot” (asterisks or no). Sure, he said I’m being an “asshole,” but I’m a big boy and I can take it, and I ask people not to respond in kind.

    And I ask SEK to answer my very simple question in a straightforward manner.

    Patterico (64318f)

  95. You like a guy who says blacks are three-year olds and whites are seven-year olds, and I imagine he thinks that post-graduate college instructors, with the right learning of course, are the adults.

    nk (df76d4)

  96. Ebonie is intellectually racist, but since her group does not hold power (Obama, Tiger, Oprah, LeBron notwithstanding) she is not an actual racist, and even if she was, it is a version of racism that is far less bad. And, if you do not denounced RSM, you are a racist.

    Oh SPQR and JD are one big fail. See, Patterico can click a link (links I have provided both of you in the past and links you were too intransigent to follow)….

    JD, would you like to denounce RSM with Patterico for his racists statements (hint: one last chance!)? Or, would you just like to ignore being wrong?

    Sprqrqp, I lost faith in you. I asked to show where I was using “dishonest rhetoric” and you would not provide an example. if I were dj, I’d demand an apology, but I’m a better, smarter person than he is, so I am just going to ignore you and your irrational, illogical constructs from now on.

    PS. That had a little more schadenfreude to it than I generally like….

    timb (449046)

  97. […] Tiger Wood is racist because he married a white woman and cheated on her with other white women I’m gonna be politically incorrect (gasp) again.  The black women are only upset that the white women have cut in front of the black women in the ‘money line’. […]

    Today’s Tidbits (788229)

  98. timb, lying about me and my comments is dishonest. Everyone here would agree with that except for you.

    That’s because you have no integrity at all.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  99. One last chance: I didn’t and haven’t. In fact, your bullsh*t started in response to a comment I made which did reference you, wasn’t directed to you, and did not concern you. You called it “dishonest rhetoric” and, unless you actually insane, you must have meant something. I’m giving you one more chance or we’re done.

    timb (449046)

  100. which did NOT reference you

    timb (449046)

  101. You cannot f*cking read, can you?

    At any rate, I do not have to answer for RSM’s words. That is all on him. I noted that I thought they were racist, but apparently law school does not lead to reading comprehension.

    One last chance? Or what?

    JD (77360b)

  102. Frankly, timb, I’m not giving you any more chances at all. I tired of your dishonesty long ago.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  103. And I ask SEK to answer my very simple question in a straightforward manner.

    To clear this up for posterity: I did do so in the cursing comment, when I said “Of course I [bleeping] do,” so all those comments on other threads about there being some distinction between “intellectually racist” and “racist” are dead wrong. I made no such distinction, nor do I (nor anyone on my side that I know of) think it operative.

    SEK (9e7eee)

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  106. The last chance is for the one who is more tedious than you.

    As for you, you, on this very thread, attempted to cast contempt who pointed out that this lying, neo-Confederate was a racist retard. You won’t decry racist retards in your own midst (with links to Darleen, Dan, etc), but you expect me to hate the President because some workers at ACORN are bad people.

    You “can’t be held responsible” for associating and defendign a white supremacist? Dear lord, John, what are you responsible for?

    I can’t believe that I once you thought you were an honest broker. You are so invested in teams of good guys and bad guys that you will overlook any wrong as long it’s committed by “your side.” You’re an ass.

    Oh, and way to grovel to Patterico on the other thread. Very manly.

    [note: released from moderation filter. –Stashiu]

    timb (47c8f2)

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