Patterico's Pontifications

11/9/2009

Hasan: “We Love Death More Then You Love Life”

Filed under: Terrorism — DRJ @ 7:56 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan reportedly told senior Army physicians at Fort Hood Walter Reed that Muslim troops should be released as conscientious objectors:

“As a senior-year psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Maj. Nidal M. Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic of his choosing as a culminating exercise of the residency program.

Instead, in late June 2007, he stood before his supervisors and about 25 other mental health staff members and lectured on Islam, suicide bombers and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, both Muslim countries, according to a copy of the presentation obtained by The Washington Post.

“It was really strange,” said one staff member who attended the presentation and requested anonymity because of the investigation of Hasan. “The senior doctors looked really upset” at the end. These medical presentations occurred each Wednesday afternoon, and other students had lectured on new medications and treatment of specific mental illnesses.”

Were the doctors upset because Hasan didn’t cover the right topic? Maybe, but I hope this is what triggered their concern:

“The last bullet point on that page reads simply: “We love death more then (sic) you love life!”

Under the “Conclusions” page, Hasan wrote that “Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam,” and that “Muslim Soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers unjustly — will vary!”

The final page, labeled “Recommendation,” contained only one suggestion: “Department of Defense should allow Muslims (sic) Soldiers the option of being released as ‘Conscientious objectors’ to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events.”

It will be hard for the government to discount the possibility of terrorism in the face of mounting anecdotal evidence like this.

— DRJ

58 Responses to “Hasan: “We Love Death More Then You Love Life””

  1. Now, don’t jump to conclusions. That guy shouting Allahu Ackbar and shooting at you may simply be manifesting pre-traumatic stress disorder and needs an psychiatrist.

    Oh, he is a psychiatrist ?

    Mike K (addb13)

  2. At least Hasan tried to warn people, although it’s no excuse. This is an important topic and something he was uniquely qualified to discuss, since I doubt there are a lot of Muslim psychiatrists in the Army. I hope the mental health professional were listening and thinking about this — I guarantee they are now.

    I suspect his defense counsel may assert Hasan suffered from a stress-related delusion or compulsion. This cuts both ways — on the one hand, it suggests Hasan was aware of what was happening and he made a choice. On the other hand, it may also support an argument that his delusion was so overwhelming that he couldn’t stop himself.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  3. It will be hard for the government to discount the possibility of terrorism in the face of mounting anecdotal evidence like this.

    The gov’t sure. But the media will shove it into the memory hole without any difficulty.

    It’s what they do.

    JayC (0a3ab7)

  4. “We love death more then (sic) you love life!”

    Chilling.

    It will be interesting to see exactly how many red flags there truly were, who it was who ignored them, rationalized them, and put the kibosh on their exposure.

    Dana (e9ba20)

  5. Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan reportedly told senior Army physicians at Fort Hood that Muslim troops should be released as conscientious objectors.

    What leads you to believe this occurred at Ft. Hood?

    steve (e7b19f)

  6. Didn’t Golda Meir say years ago that there would be peace when the PLO types loved their own children more than killing Jews? Sounds like Hasan agreed, but with a somewhat differing conclusion.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  7. small-s steve – Are you intentionally trying to miss the point?

    JD (584916)

  8. steve,

    You’re right, it was at Walter Reed. My eyes read Walter Reed but my fingers typed Fort Hood. Thanks for noticing that.

    DRJ (dff2ca)

  9. “Department of Defense should allow Muslims (sic) Soldiers the option of being released as ‘Conscientious objectors’ to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events.”

    Given the dirty socialist media’s reporting I wouldn’t bet money against the little terrorist man achieving his goal.

    happyfeet (f62c43)

  10. “We love death more then (sic) you love life!”

    Ring a bell?

    She offered a chillingly apt understanding of the statement made in 2004 by Hizbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah and later echoed by many Hamas leaders: “We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable….We are going to win, because they love life and we love death.”

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  11. In the name of Christian charity, we should give them what they so much love, and deserve.

    AD - RtR/OS! (7c0a4b)

  12. But in the words of the current occupant of the Oval Office, we Americans must all remember to not jump to conclusions!

    Maybe Major Nidal Malik Hasan just had a bad day at the office.

    Mark (411533)

  13. Aloha Snackbar!

    daleyrocks (718861)

  14. daleyrocks – if you had denounce of sense, you would have announced yourself for *that* comment !

    (grin)

    Alasdair (205079)

  15. Alasdair – I usually wait for JD to denounce me.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  16. that was clever

    happyfeet (f62c43)

  17. someone should remind the barbarians that, when we put our minds too it, Americans can, as with most other challenges, come up with the most efficient manner of reaching a goal.

    one of these days we might just indulge them in their love of death. are they sure that’s what they really had in mind, or are they just talking shit like a bully who’s never gotten their ass kicked?

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  18. In related news, five members of a Wednesday night Bible study were reportedly “quite unruly” and a neighborhood Starbucks. Witnesses say that one studier “jostled” another patron quite firmly, while other members of the gang were seen to take several extra napkins from the concession area.

    “It really seemed quite excessive,” bemoaned one onlooker. “No one NEEDS that many napkins.”

    Some reports suggest that two of the Bible thumpers may not even have tipped the Barista, but these reports remain unconfimred at press time.

    Steve B (5eacf6)

  19. $%#$&*#@ing tyupos.

    Steve B (5eacf6)

  20. “We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable….We are going to win, because they love life and we love death.”

    LOL. Yeah, that was part of the Japanese philosophy in WWII as well.

    There was a little flaw in their reasoning though.

    What they forgot about was that while they truly loved the idea of dying for the emperor, we truly loved the idea of killing them too.

    Needless to say…they lost.

    Dave Surls (085710)

  21. Dave, you’re absolutely right. It’s not really even a war between their success and ours. It’s a war between their failure and our success.

    If Islam were to dominate the world, that wouldn’t end the jihad, bloodshed, or misery. Palestinians would not live as nicely as Israelis. Warlords would say the same lies to goad the same dumbasses into doing the same things: blowing themselves up, enslaving their women, blaming the US, Israel, and Britain for everything, and being as miserable as possible so as to ‘submit’ to Allah’s glorious miserable plan.

    Winning is not in Islam’s program. Many other cultures end their wars at some point, and have a peace dividend. There’s a reason there’s been virtually no advance made in any Islamic culture, ever, aside from cataloging books.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  22. Comment by Dave Surls — 11/9/2009 @ 11:20 pm

    The mistake the Japanese made was making Kamikaze of their best and most talented of pilots.

    Jyhadists side-step that mistake by sending novices, women and children to blow themselves up, while those with experience stay home.

    The flaw has been observed and corrected.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  23. by the time the Japanese had resorted to Kamikaze tactics, most of their best pilots were already at the bottom of the Pacific. once trained, they kept their pilots in combat, whereas we routinely rotated experience back.

    also, the lack of fuel, thanks to our submarines, meant that the novice pilots got less and less flight time prior to going into combat against better trained US fliers, with predictable results.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  24. the Live Journal i copied this from a few years back is gone, AFAIK, but i still love the analysis

    ———————————————————-

    I don’t know what ‘the west’ wants, but Americans are simple: we want
    the rest of the world to go away and stop bothering us.

    Understand I’m not speaking for myself – I’d be on a plane somewhere
    365 days a year if I could manage it. But Americans generally don’t
    like being forced to confront the outside world. We have quite a large
    country of our own and if we find it cramped there’s always Canada
    (America Lite).

    Americans want to spend their days working. We like working. We like
    coming up with crazy plans and turning them into billion dollar
    businesses. If we’re not working we want to hang out with family. We
    don’t like thinking about politics, we’re not the French. We don’t
    like having to learn the differences between Shia and Sunni because,
    quite frankly, we don’t give a damn. We just want to work and hang out.

    From time to time Americans are forced to recognize the existence of
    some other piece of the world: Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. We resent
    being forced to do so. We didn’t really know these places existed,
    didn’t care, and don’t wish to be irritated by them because we have
    work to do.

    So we fall back on simple, direct solutions to ease the irritation:
    nuke ’em all. Nuke ’em all, and then get back to work. It’s not that
    we harbor particular malice toward one country or another, one religion
    or another. What we harbor is indifference. If you threaten our
    indifference by forcing us to pay attention to you and your intractable
    foreign problems we may have to blow something up just so you’ll go
    away. There is, after all, money to be made, and work to be done, and
    family to be hung out with.

    We’re busy: don’t make us kill you.

    I grant that in some cases it’s our own government’s actions that force
    us into the position of having to learn where Fallujah is
    (answer: who cares?) but that doesn’t alter our underlying sense that
    the whole world should just stop bothering us and let us get back
    to work.

    Said by M. Takhallus in http://tinyurl.com/y48yao

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  25. Comment by redc1c4 — 11/9/2009 @ 11:48 pm

    That might be the most profound thing I have ever read.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  26. btw, that blog has, apparently, been deleted.

    Mores the pity. I suspect that person could have solved a great many problems with their insight.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  27. #26: that’s what i said up above. i leave the attribution in out of courtesy. the gentleman deserves to get credit for his w*rk, even if the blog is gone.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  28. Said by M. Takhallus in http://tinyurl.com/y48yao

    Spoken like a true Jacksonian.

    AD - RtR/OS! (7c0a4b)

  29. Well, the real mistake the Japanese made was messing with the USA, and thinking we wouldn’t innovate new ways to win a war.

    Of course, it wasn’t that much of a mistake… Japan is infinitely better off because the USA remade them.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  30. “We love death more than you love life.”

    Of repeated by Hamas punks, too.

    Actually, think I can see a ground for compromise, here. Between us and the Islamists, we can all get what we love, right?

    Silvering (3ef173)

  31. I can put myself in the shoes of a Muslim soldier. And I can see where it would be more difficult for them than a Christian or Jew to be in combat in Afghanistan or Iraq.

    What I can’t understand is why the military doesn’t have a program designed to help those soldiers and weed out those who are potentially dangerous.

    JEA (9f9fc9)

  32. This all could have been solved with another program.

    JD (959071)

  33. #31: its an all volunteer military. we are involved in a war against islamic terrorists all over the world. if you are a member of the religion of pieces, and you join up, you are already aware, or should be, that you will be fighting against said terrorists. if you have a problem with that, don’t sign up.

    the only sure program the military could institute would be to discharge all muslims currently enlisted in the services, and refuse to induct new ones, which would lead to charges of discrimination.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  34. Agreed on both counts. But Muslims could still serve in other places, couldn’t they?

    JEA (9f9fc9)

  35. The esteemed historian Victor Davis Hanson (one of my faves) has made many mostly uncontested theories regarding the Western way of war. He’s cited numerous examples over the years that while the US is slow to anger, once engaged, the enemy will be annihilated, one way or the other. The only reason our current antagonists take us on is their understanding that we’ll never resort to the ultimate solution, because we’re too decent and life – affirming to do so. They’re wrong – if it comes to that, we’ll bomb them back to the stone age, and let whatever God they worship sort them out.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  36. But Muslims could still serve in other places, couldn’t they?

    This is a silly argument – once FDR finally relented and allowed the Japanese US citizens to fight for their adopted country, they were among the most highly – decorated units in WWII. The casualties they suffered were also among the highest of any divisions engaged in the war – Senator Hiyakawa lost his arm during a ferocious battle in which he kept one of his machine guns firing, even after being almost cut in half by enemy fire. If American Muslims wish to honorably serve, then they should go willingly and kill anyone who’s actively trying to kill US soldiers, period. This is not an issue open to interpretation – either serve your country, or don’t join up.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  37. I can put myself in the shoes of a Muslim soldier. And I can see where it would be more difficult for them than a Christian or Jew to be in combat in Afghanistan or Iraq.

    A lot depends on your image of Islam. There are two (at least) versions in the world. There is Fouad Ajami and there is the al Qeada variety.

    First Ajami on the end of the Cold War:

    It was against this dismal background that Ronald Reagan had risen. He may not have known much about the foreign world, he may not have always been a master of his brief—the details and the execution and the discipline were supplied by his gifted collaborator, Secretary of State George Shultz—but he trusted his own instincts. He had his feel for history’s march, his faith in human freedom. He had recoiled from all the talk about America’s decline. He had boundless belief in the American mission in the world.

    “I do have a strategy,” Reagan said after one detailed briefing on the challenge of the Soviet Union: “We win, they lose!”

    And on Islam, of which he is a member:

    A Harvard academic had foreseen the shape of things to come. In 1993, amid this time of historical and political abdication, the late Samuel P. Huntington came forth with his celebrated “Clash of Civilizations” thesis. With remarkable prescience, he wrote that the end of the Cold War would give rise to civilizational wars.

    He stated, in unadorned terms, the threat that would erupt from the lands of Islam: “The relations between Islam and Christianity, both Orthodox and Western, have often been stormy. Each has been the other’s Other. The 20th century conflict between liberal democracy and Marxist-Leninism is only a fleeting and superficial historical phenomenon compared to the continuing and deeply conflictual relation between Islam and Christianity.”

    The young jihadists who shattered the illusions of an era practically walk out of Huntington’s pages. We had armed the boys of the jihad in Afghanistan. They came to a conviction that they had brought down one infidel empire, and could undo its liberal rival.

    A meandering road led from 11/9 to 9/11. The burning grounds of Islam are altogether different than the Communist challenge. There is no Moscow that serves as the seat of Jihadist power. This is a new kind of war and new kind of enemy, a twilight war without front lines.

    But we shouldn’t be surprised with some of history’s repetitions. There are again the appeasers who see these furies of Islam as America’s comeuppance, there are those who think we have overreached and that we are riding into storms of our own making. And in the foreign world there are chameleons who feign desire for our friendship while subverting our causes.

    Once again, there arises the question in our midst of whether political freedom, broadly conceived, can and ought to be taken to distant lands. In the George W. Bush years, American power and diplomacy gave voice to a belief in freedom’s possibilities. A different sentiment animates American practice today.

    For the peoples of Islam, the question can be squarely put: Will they tear down their walls in the manner in which the people of Central and Eastern Europe tore down theirs? The people of Islam are thus sorely tested. They will have to show their own fidelity to liberty. Strangers with big guns and ample means can ride into their midst with the best of intentions and skills, but it is their own world, their own civilization, that is now in history’s scales.

    I don’t think communists would have been helpful members of the US military during the Cold War. But Russians who wanted freedom might have been another matter.

    Islamists like Hasan are an enemy but there must be Muslims who want to see Islam freed from the dead hand of the Islamists. Right now, I read that 90% of the Afghans do not want to see the Taliban return. When the Iraqi regime of Saddam fell, there was rejoicing in the streets in spite of the left’s denial of the facts.

    Many derided and feared Reagan because they had convinced themselves that the USSR was there to stay. Do MUslims really want to go back to the 12th century ? Turkey seems to be moving that direction but I wonder how long that will last.

    Mike K (addb13)

  38. I think the most tin-eared part of the “don’t jump to conclusions” thing was that if someone had jumped to conclusions about Hasan, maybe they would have prevented this whole massacre. the blood of those who died and were wounded are on the PC people who want to pretend there isn’t even a strain of islam that is our enemy.

    Our enemy is radical islam, and we can say that without tarring all muslims. it is an objective fact that some muslims have given their lives heroically for america, or at least against the terrorists. For instance, you might remember on the iraqi election day the man with down’s syndrome who had a bomb strapped to him. An iraqi police officer grabbed him and more or less “hugged” him to keep him from bombing a group of iraqi voters. Then the poor man was detonated. When that police officer was buried, his father declared that his son was guaranteed a place in heaven because he died in jihad–the jihad against islamofascism.

    So there is a side of islam that is downright friendly to us: the islam of that police officer and thousands of patriotic american muslims who serve and even die for our country. But there is a part of islam that is 100% our enemy, and we need to get over our own past enough to say that just because we didn’t differentiate between innocent and evil japanese americans, doesn’t mean we can’t differentiate between evil and innocent muslim americans.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  39. Btw, to be fair, this should not be pinned on obama. the fact is this crazy military culture evolved under bush. but don’t hold your breath waiting for obama to say, “wtf, are you guys idiots? he said infidels shoudl be decapitated. what does it take to get your attention?”

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  40. Yesterday was a slow day at work, and the family was out of town, so I couldn’t hang out with them. So I thought I’d go buy some nasty loud conservative weapon, but first I had to locate some Muslims to jump to conclusions with.

    And it was hard. Here in CA, there are lots of Latinos, who often look similar to people of Middle East extraction, so you have to get their names. But frequently the names sound similar. I tried the phone book, but most of the right names had PO Boxes, and we don’t have a mosque here. After Googling a couple addresses, they were too far apart. Maybe I could hang out at the shopping center and ask people their religion, but that would limit me to probably only getting to jump to conclusions with one, or maybe two at the most.

    And meanwhile I’d have to put up with all those obnoxious skateboard kids and the people with petitions.

    This is really pretty boring. If nobody has any suggestions for me, I think I’ll go back to work.

    jodetoad (059c35)

  41. Hasan: “We Love Death More Then You Love Life”

    I think we have some honest work for Dr. Kevorkian.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  42. luagha

    makes me think of that sting song. something like “the russians” and he sings we have nothing to worry about in the cold war “if the russians love their children too.”

    maybe the russians did, but its not clear that islamofascists do.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  43. Comment by redc1c4 — 11/10/2009 @ 7:29 am

    I beleve that SCOTUS has spoken on this, that there is no Right to join.

    AD - RtR/OS! (98a208)

  44. 34.Agreed on both counts. But Muslims could still serve in other places, couldn’t they?

    Comment by JEA — 11/10/2009 @ 7:57 am

    I suggest HELL as a place they can serve.

    peedoffamerican (050d55)

  45. Comment by A.W. – “Btw, to be fair, this should not be pinned on obama. the fact is this crazy military culture evolved under bush.”

    We can surely pin some of the blame for current troubles on Jimmy Carter for his spineless and incompetent response to the takeover of the US Embassy in Iran – an outright act of war that should have been met by Carter immediately requesting, nay, demanding that Congress declare war.

    However, the basic crazy military culture actually evolved more than a millennium ago. Get out your Qu’ran and Hadith and read them.

    Bill von Rille (5674a0)

  46. I don’t know if it will be hard for the governement to discount terrorism from now on. The liberal mindset is a scary thing.

    No Bull Mom (ad2309)

  47. AW says we shouldn’t pin this on Obama.

    Why not?

    Obama is the commander in chief. He’s the leader of the FBI. The buck stops at his desk. Everyone was shocked by 9/11… and the republicans and democrats had failed together, but it’s not like the left didn’t try to blame Bush with their ‘connect the dots’ argument… a sound argument, though one that shows both sides failed us.

    But after 9/11, Bush stopped this crap. The buck stops at his desk. He ran a PC Army (it was just as PC under Clinton), but he also ran a dedicated FBI and other counter terror agencies. While they did pick up on Hasan, perhaps to some slight extent, in the last couple of weeks of the Bush administration, they probably monitor things for a while to see what they can learn. The fact is, this was dropped by the Obama administration’s agencies. But we don’t need to carefully analyze the blame game. This stuff didn’t happen under the Post 9/11 Bush administration, and it is happening under Obama’s. It’s clear their reaction is a law enforcement attitude of ‘he’s crazy, and to focus on protecting Muslims who aren’t really endangered.

    Letting Obama off the hook misses the incentive structure we should have in place. The President either keeps this stuff from happening, or we blame him for it. No excuses. This is a 9/12 world.

    If we let Obama off the hook, more of our people are going to die. His ‘shout out’ showed he wasn’t all that upset about this happening. He will be if he’s blamed.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  48. Bill

    > However, the basic crazy military culture actually evolved more than a millennium ago. Get out your Qu’ran and Hadith and read them.

    Let me be clear, because apparently i wasn’t (my bad). when i was talking about crazy military culture, i meant ours, the one that thinks that if a man goes around saying infidels should be beheaded and the like that this isn’t cause to note anything and if that concerns you, well, then you are a racist.

    Of course AQ et al are crazy, too, but in a real way its pretending that such evil is banal and benign that seems almost crazier than the splodi-dopes like Hasan.

    Dustin

    Obama can’t be expected to change it overnight or even in 9 months. i never blamed bush for missing the signs of 9-11, and i am going to be consistent with obama and this lesser attack.

    The problem is Bush tried to change our culture away from this brain-dead PC-ism, and Obama is busy trying to wipe out what little gains bush made.

    But even in Bush’s america, apparenlty this hasan guy set off no alarms. sheesh.

    Although to be fair, maybe this political correctness didn’t start under bush either.

    But you would be surprised at how differnet the gung ho stereotype of the military doesn’t match reality. the rules of engagement for instance, barely allows our soldiers to fight back. and in the marine corps at least, drill sergeants aren’t allowed to curse. i mean stop and imagine that for a moment. no cursing? seriously, wtf? and our military to its credit labors under these idiot rules with very little criticism. i believe in civilian control of the miltiary, but the military should talk back a little more. i think if the average american understood how pc it all was we’d be stunned.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  49. If you want to see how bad it’s gotten, I have linked a study of sex discrimination cases brought by “military” women. You have to redirect it but it is a depressing story, starting with Tailhook. My wife used to attend Tailhook with her brother and brother-in-law. They told her to never go near the hospitality suites. Any women who were there wanted to be there.

    We can surely pin some of the blame for current troubles on Jimmy Carter

    I agree to some extent. The joint chiefs had a plan to destroy Kharg Island the biggest Iranian oil port. It’s interesting to imagine what that would have done. It couldn’t have been worse.

    Mike K (addb13)

  50. David Brooks today has an excellent column on this event. I had almost given up on him but he comes through very well here.

    But look at the comments ! These are the people who read the NY Times. I didn’t read all 500 plus but the first 100 or so are 95% in the therapy mode.

    This is the face of the Obama voter. Of course we won’t stick it out in Afghanistan. Of course we won’t build the anti-missile systems that could protect us from Iranian missiles.

    If I were in the military today, I would wonder if these people deserve protection.

    Kipling understood it.

    Mike K (addb13)

  51. AW, of course Obama could change things in his time in office so far. I can think of many ways. It’s an endless list. And indeed, things have changed.

    At the end of the day, it’s too complex to point to any one aspect, but our approach is moving to law enforcement, ass covering, and is simply less effective. Results are my best argument, too.

    Bush did not let this stuff happen. Obama let this happen. Maybe it’s unfair, but this happened on his watch, and if more terror in the USA happens, it will also be Obama’s fault.

    i know you’re trying to be fair, and that’s laudable, but this happened on Obama’s watch. This is part of his legacy. Every single attack that occurs until he is out of office needs to be added to his legacy. Listening to Obama talk about these horrors, it’s clear he needs more incentive, and this is the only one that will work.

    Dustin (bb61e3)

  52. Hasan: “We Love Death More Then You Love Life”

    What I always wish some idiot MSM reporter would ask these wanton murderers is that if they really believed that oft – expressed sentiment, then why not just kill themselves first? Liars and cowards – they only strike those who can’t effectively fight back.

    Dmac (a964d5)

  53. “We love death more then (sic) you love life!”
    No, actually. We love death too. We love to watch as cretins like you get strapped on the chair and incinerated. We love death!!!

    The Emperor (82e13a)

  54. Okay, seriously, who are you and what have you done with the real Empty Roar?

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  55. Dustin

    Well, i said my peace. but i think we can agree that if obama doesn’t go and kick everyone’s ass up and down the command line and say, “don’t you ever let something this blindingly obvious slip through the cracks again” and take other steps to address this cultural stupidity, then that would be a true travesty. making mistakes is one thing. not learning from them is another.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  56. A.W…You’re asking a lot from our first Self-Esteem President.
    The only thing he wants is for anything that happens not to be traceable to him.

    AD - RtR/OS! (98a208)

  57. A.W. – OK. Thanks for the clarification.

    Bill von Rille (5674a0)

  58. Okay, seriously, who are you and what have you done with the real Empty Roar?

    Comment by A.W. — 11/10/2009 @ 2:27 pm
    He’s on a long break, A.W. 😉

    The Emperor (82e13a)


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