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	<title>Comments on: Voting Present on Afghanistan</title>
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	<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: Flopping Aces » Blog Archive &#187; Give War a Chance</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565986</link>
		<dc:creator>Flopping Aces » Blog Archive &#187; Give War a Chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565986</guid>
		<description>[...] Quigg at Huffington Post (hat tip Patterico and Missy):  It fundamentally harms the long-term cause of global peace if America permits itself [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Quigg at Huffington Post (hat tip Patterico and Missy):  It fundamentally harms the long-term cause of global peace if America permits itself [...]</p>
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		<title>By: redc1c4</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565826</link>
		<dc:creator>redc1c4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565826</guid>
		<description>i will defer to Badger 6, who&#039;s cred needs no references, on the suitability of the M4/249 in theater.

that being said, i can speak to my 20 years of burning ammo at various ranges during my uneventful, by comparison, so called career.

Break-Free, or CLP is a great product in most cases, but if you are firing lots of rounds,especially military ball, which is notorious for being dirty ammo, it&#039;s got some draw backs.  since the Army doesn&#039;t issue LSA anymore, i found over the years that 30 weight worked wonders.

yes, it will attract sand, etc, even more than CLP, but it will also wash away gross contaminants if you use enough.  it also washes away the carbon, and helps cool the weapon as it smokes off.... if you&#039;ve got a pig or a 240, putting a thin stream on a hot barrel can make all the diff in a tight spot.

not claiming to be an expert, but my teachers all had right sleeve patches, and the lessons held true for me all the way to when i pulled the plug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i will defer to Badger 6, who&#8217;s cred needs no references, on the suitability of the M4/249 in theater.</p>
<p>that being said, i can speak to my 20 years of burning ammo at various ranges during my uneventful, by comparison, so called career.</p>
<p>Break-Free, or CLP is a great product in most cases, but if you are firing lots of rounds,especially military ball, which is notorious for being dirty ammo, it&#8217;s got some draw backs.  since the Army doesn&#8217;t issue LSA anymore, i found over the years that 30 weight worked wonders.</p>
<p>yes, it will attract sand, etc, even more than CLP, but it will also wash away gross contaminants if you use enough.  it also washes away the carbon, and helps cool the weapon as it smokes off&#8230;. if you&#8217;ve got a pig or a 240, putting a thin stream on a hot barrel can make all the diff in a tight spot.</p>
<p>not claiming to be an expert, but my teachers all had right sleeve patches, and the lessons held true for me all the way to when i pulled the plug.</p>
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		<title>By: Have Blue</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565810</link>
		<dc:creator>Have Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 05:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565810</guid>
		<description>Denver paper&#039;s headline &quot;Weapons failed US troops during Afghan firelight&quot;

Glad to see the multiple layers of fact checking and editorial review. And that none of their editors and fact checkers know what a &quot;FIREFIGHT&quot; is.

Am not going to get started on the M-4 or 5.56 NATO controversies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denver paper&#8217;s headline &#8220;Weapons failed US troops during Afghan firelight&#8221;</p>
<p>Glad to see the multiple layers of fact checking and editorial review. And that none of their editors and fact checkers know what a &#8220;FIREFIGHT&#8221; is.</p>
<p>Am not going to get started on the M-4 or 5.56 NATO controversies.</p>
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		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565803</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 04:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565803</guid>
		<description>steve,

In a &lt;a href=&quot;http://patterico.com/2009/10/10/a-time-to-lead-and-a-time-to-play/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent post&lt;/a&gt; on that subject, I specifically noted the Kamdesh base had been scheduled for closure when the attack occurred.  But as the link demonstrates, Feinstein is also right because it will undoubtedly appear to the Taliban and the local population that the Americans were run out of town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve,</p>
<p>In a <a href="http://patterico.com/2009/10/10/a-time-to-lead-and-a-time-to-play/" rel="nofollow">recent post</a> on that subject, I specifically noted the Kamdesh base had been scheduled for closure when the attack occurred.  But as the link demonstrates, Feinstein is also right because it will undoubtedly appear to the Taliban and the local population that the Americans were run out of town.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565797</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 04:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565797</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We lost eight of our men. We didn’t have the ability to defend them, and now the base is closing, and effectively we’re — we’re retreating away from it.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s misleading.

The Kamdesh base was attacked 36 hours before the scheduled closing ordered by Gen. McChrystal.

The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dvidshub.net/?script=news/news_show.php&amp;id=39875&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ISAF release:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Despite Taliban claims, the movement of troops and equipment from the outposts are a part of a previously scheduled transfer. The remote outposts were established as part of a previous security strategy to stop or prevent the flow of militants into the region.

In line with General Stanley McChrystal&#039;s counterinsurgency guidance to pursue a population-centric strategy, ISAF commanders decided last month to reposition forces from remote areas with smaller population densities to population centers within the region.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We lost eight of our men. We didn’t have the ability to defend them, and now the base is closing, and effectively we’re — we’re retreating away from it.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s misleading.</p>
<p>The Kamdesh base was attacked 36 hours before the scheduled closing ordered by Gen. McChrystal.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.dvidshub.net/?script=news/news_show.php&amp;id=39875" rel="nofollow">ISAF release:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Despite Taliban claims, the movement of troops and equipment from the outposts are a part of a previously scheduled transfer. The remote outposts were established as part of a previous security strategy to stop or prevent the flow of militants into the region.</p>
<p>In line with General Stanley McChrystal&#8217;s counterinsurgency guidance to pursue a population-centric strategy, ISAF commanders decided last month to reposition forces from remote areas with smaller population densities to population centers within the region.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565723</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565723</guid>
		<description>Individual weaponry, that is. Anyone who&#039;s seen my gun safe can tell you I like rifles. But I like ships and airplanes just as much, and can see the need for other stuff like arty that just never took my fancy.

Are we just going to vote &quot;present&quot; on this, too, and just say to the infantryman, &quot;We decided you really are on your own, so you need a gun with a bigger bore. Cuz&#039; nobody&#039;s coming to help you.&quot;

A mission might be nice, too. I don&#039;t know if the one McChrystal was assigned to flesh out was the right one. But since both the team Obama assigned to produce the white paper in March and the hand-picked commander he chose to write the current assessment came to the same conclusion, I&#039;d just feel better if Obama paid them some attention before putting his finger in the wind and doing something different.

As if those infantryment in Afghanistan didn&#039;t know well enough already they&#039;re on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Individual weaponry, that is. Anyone who&#8217;s seen my gun safe can tell you I like rifles. But I like ships and airplanes just as much, and can see the need for other stuff like arty that just never took my fancy.</p>
<p>Are we just going to vote &#8220;present&#8221; on this, too, and just say to the infantryman, &#8220;We decided you really are on your own, so you need a gun with a bigger bore. Cuz&#8217; nobody&#8217;s coming to help you.&#8221;</p>
<p>A mission might be nice, too. I don&#8217;t know if the one McChrystal was assigned to flesh out was the right one. But since both the team Obama assigned to produce the white paper in March and the hand-picked commander he chose to write the current assessment came to the same conclusion, I&#8217;d just feel better if Obama paid them some attention before putting his finger in the wind and doing something different.</p>
<p>As if those infantryment in Afghanistan didn&#8217;t know well enough already they&#8217;re on their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565716</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565716</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not let ourselves get dragged off, tempting though it is, on a discussion of weaponry when the topic is Obama&#039;s weaseling on Afghanistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not let ourselves get dragged off, tempting though it is, on a discussion of weaponry when the topic is Obama&#8217;s weaseling on Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: AD - RtR/OS!</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565679</link>
		<dc:creator>AD - RtR/OS!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565679</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Comment by Badger 6 — 10/11/2009 @ 5:54 pm&lt;/i&gt;

I defer to your expertise Sir, but the report that DRJ cited above (#4) from the Denver Post is very disturbing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Comment by Badger 6 — 10/11/2009 @ 5:54 pm</i></p>
<p>I defer to your expertise Sir, but the report that DRJ cited above (#4) from the Denver Post is very disturbing.</p>
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		<title>By: AD - RtR/OS!</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565676</link>
		<dc:creator>AD - RtR/OS!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565676</guid>
		<description>Not having had the &quot;pleasure&quot; of using the M-16 or any of it&#039;s variants in a combat situation, I can&#039;t speak from first-hand knowledge. 
But, the preliminary reports from Afghanistan seems to suggest that prolonged full-auto fire is causing a degrading of the weapon.
Many have complained about the basic design of the gas-system, which has been redesigned on several AR variants (but not ones used by DoD), to eliminate gas-impingement into the receiver, and substituting a piston to activate the mechanism.
It could be that prolonged full-auto fire is causing heat build-up in the receiver, along with fouling, preventing the weapon from cycling.
But, there have been noted casualties in some recent fire-fights where weapon failure has occurred.
Not Good!

On the subject of the 5.56mm round... 
Going back to the 7.62, particularly in an area such as Afghanistan with its&#039; long-ranges and heavy apparel, might be a positive step; and in fact, many units of both the Army and Marines are taking the field with selected riflemen being issued the old M-14, which has always acquitted itself well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having had the &#8220;pleasure&#8221; of using the M-16 or any of it&#8217;s variants in a combat situation, I can&#8217;t speak from first-hand knowledge.<br />
But, the preliminary reports from Afghanistan seems to suggest that prolonged full-auto fire is causing a degrading of the weapon.<br />
Many have complained about the basic design of the gas-system, which has been redesigned on several AR variants (but not ones used by DoD), to eliminate gas-impingement into the receiver, and substituting a piston to activate the mechanism.<br />
It could be that prolonged full-auto fire is causing heat build-up in the receiver, along with fouling, preventing the weapon from cycling.<br />
But, there have been noted casualties in some recent fire-fights where weapon failure has occurred.<br />
Not Good!</p>
<p>On the subject of the 5.56mm round&#8230;<br />
Going back to the 7.62, particularly in an area such as Afghanistan with its&#8217; long-ranges and heavy apparel, might be a positive step; and in fact, many units of both the Army and Marines are taking the field with selected riflemen being issued the old M-14, which has always acquitted itself well.</p>
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		<title>By: Badger 6</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/10/11/voting-present-on-afghanistan/comment-page-1/#comment-565675</link>
		<dc:creator>Badger 6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=33046#comment-565675</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And now, we have disturbing reports of weapon failures (both the M-4 &amp; M-249) in the field, ala VietNam.

Comment by AD - RtR/OS! — 10/11/2009 @ 3:02 pm&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The M4 and the SAW are just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And now, we have disturbing reports of weapon failures (both the M-4 &amp; M-249) in the field, ala VietNam.</p>
<p>Comment by AD &#8211; RtR/OS! — 10/11/2009 @ 3:02 pm</p></blockquote>
<p>The M4 and the SAW are just fine.</p>
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