Sure, Polanski Did It Only Once . . .
. . . except that he admitted having sex with at least one other under-age girl, as Matt Welch reports:
Nastassia introdued me to her mother, who discussed her career with me […]. That was when I first learned Nastassia’s age. She was only fifteen.
We made love more than once during my three months in Munich. […] On the night we met I’d thought her a couple of years older than her friend, who was, in fact, seventeen.
The girl in question, of course, is Nastassia Kinski.
The girl he raped in L.A. is not the only underage girl he had sex with. And I feel certain that she is not the only underage girl he raped, either.
Meanwhile, Polanski defenders (few as they maybe) blame my employer, the L.A. County D.A., for supposedly dragging this out and causing suffering to the victim. Laying waste to their arguments, reader P.M. writes with this excellent observation that places the blame where it actually lies:
From the beginning, the victim and her family have sought to minimize the harm and stigma which (unfortunately) would attach to her based on Polanski’s rape. They agreed to a no-significant-jail-time plea deal in order to avoid the life-long scarring that having her identity publicly revealed would cause. Had Polanski not fled the country, we probably to this day would never have known her name. It would be a long-closed chapter. But because he chose to flee, she didn’t get the benefit she sought in agreeing to the plea deal. His flight guaranteed that this crime would remain a public issue for, as we see now, 30 years. By fleeing, he in fact caused significant additional harm to the girl he had already violated.
This episode began when Roman Polanski raped the girl you see depicted in these photographs, and was extended when Roman Polanski fled to France, where he lived it up and dined with French presidents. By raping her, he changed her life. By fleeing, he extended the agony for her — and caused additional agony to whoever else he raped after he fled.
But no, to answer your question, Steve Cooley hasn’t made any internationally acclaimed films that I am aware of. So I guess we know who the real low-life is here, don’t we?
The Polish government needs to understand that they’re going to bat for a sick sick serial rapist and then tell Anne Applebaum she can stand down.
This is sickening and it needs to get resolved.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 10/1/2009 @ 9:47 pmWell, yes, Polanski not fleeing would have kept this all to a dull roar, but the victim has not always kept the low profile she asserts either.
See the LA Times, Feb 23, 2003, when she wrote an op-ed in support of Polanski attending the Oscars. It begins:
She didn’t have to do that, so her plea of wishing to remain anonymous rings a bit hollow.
Kevin Murphy (3c3db0) — 10/1/2009 @ 9:57 pmWhatever she needs to do to feel good about herself, that’s all good, Kevin. It doesn’t mean she’s any less that lady what got anally raped by Roman Polanski when she’s at the hairdresser’s or picking out cantaloupe at Ralph’s. It’s like a big rapey stain I’d imagine.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 10/1/2009 @ 10:34 pmAt last, some Hollywood folks (Chris Rock and Jay Leno) are making sense about Polanski. This isn’t Rock’s full bit, but it’s the best line:
http://www.thejaylenoshow.com/video/clips/chris-rock/1162633/
Senso-ring (2a0ad5) — 10/1/2009 @ 10:53 pmhf, I’m just saying you can’t claim you want anonymity while writing op-eds.
Kevin Murphy (3c3db0) — 10/1/2009 @ 11:12 pmJoe Wilson did.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 10/1/2009 @ 11:17 pmActually, Patterico, your office is largely responsible for this fiasco due to its lying alumni. Polanski would not have had the same strength of arguments if at least one former prosecutor from your office was not turning himself into a lying knot.
Granted, that is not Cooley’s fault, personally, as this mess predates him. But you should acknowledge that the wrongdoing committed by a veteran of your office has tainted the proceedings and given Polanski a potential get out of jail card. That is not Anne Applebaum’s doing–that’s the fault of YOUR team.
Cyrus Sanai (3b1f29) — 10/1/2009 @ 11:25 pmPat
We dont know FOR SURE – that he raped any other underage girls
Probably – yes – do we have evidence? – I’m not sure?
EricPWJohnson (f0d96e) — 10/1/2009 @ 11:42 pmWe only know for sure that he claimed to have “known” other under-age girls, ya know?
I’m just sayin’
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 10/1/2009 @ 11:49 pmI’m not sure?
You’re not. I am.
Patterico (64318f) — 10/2/2009 @ 12:26 am#10
Based on what evidence?
Cyrus Sanai (3b1f29) — 10/2/2009 @ 1:06 amWhat does it matter if the victim did or didn’t remain anonymous during the time her rapist remained a fugitive from justice?
I honestly don’t understand the impulse to spread the blame around to others besides the admitted rapist. Especially the victim. As far as I’m aware, victims of sexual assault have to take steps to move on with their lives. I’m not going to judge them based on what they decide those steps must be in the years and decades following their assault. They can go public or remain anonymous as far as I’m concerned; it doesn’t change any of the facts.
Or if we’re sure that the fugitive raped other under age girls other than the one he pled guilty to raping? I’m with Patterico on this. I’m sure there are others. He said in a late ’70s interview that everyone including judges and juries want to “ph*&^” young girls. And he’s admitted doing just that to others besides his victim in CA.
But at the moment I’m not interested in seeing him tried or sentenced for those. Just taking the punishment he’s long evaded for the one victim he admitted to raping when he plead guilty, just before fleeing the country. Oh, and serving time for the offense he committed against all of us for evading justice.
What passes for reasoning on behalf of Polanski’s defenders is truly bizarre.
Steve (9456f6) — 10/2/2009 @ 1:39 amIs 15 underage in germany?
imdw (490521) — 10/2/2009 @ 4:58 amFrench foreign minister Bernard Kouchner, co-founder of Doctors Without Borders, called the whole thing “sinister.” http://www.thenation.com/blogs/anotherthing/479379/roman_polanski_has_a_lot_of_friends
I guess we now know what he really meant by “without borders.”
Jim (2a5a0e) — 10/2/2009 @ 5:25 amimdw,
You and other Polanski defenders are sick individuals. I recommend all police departments investigate any and all Polanski defenders as child rapists.
PCD (1d8b6d) — 10/2/2009 @ 5:32 amSee, asking what the age of consent is in a jurisdiction makes one a polanski defender and a suspected child rapist. Such is how people react to the guy. What, next you’re going to tell me you never saw “chinatown”?
imdw (017d51) — 10/2/2009 @ 5:37 amThere is a subculture that tolerates older men having sex with very young girls. It is more common in Europe, such as Belgium, home of the EU Parliament. imdw made a comment that suggests he/she is OK with that since the age of consent in Poland seems to be of interest. I have a bulletin; the rape was not in Poland.
There is a sickness that is being encouraged by celebrity culture. Just as the TV series episode about single motherhood may have encouraged more illegitimacy in the underclass that watches a lot of TV, so this sort of thing in movies encourages pedophilia. There is also a subculture of mothers pushing young daughters into compromising situations for opportunities in film but even that theme is pretty weak here. Some of those instances involved parents of young boys, as in some of the Michael Jackson stories, but it is still sick.
We have a pretty sick celebrity culture in this country. It wasn’t always this way but the last 40 years have been all downhill. Europe was the home of droits de seigneur so we shouldn’t be too surprised to see remnants of it there. Most of our ancestors had good reasons to leave there and come here. I wonder about those who now wish to imitate what their grandparents fled.
Mike K (2cf494) — 10/2/2009 @ 6:33 amIt’s my understanding that Nastassja Kinski was in fact of legal age for sex in the local jurisdiction when he had an affair with her. It does have a whiff of dirty-old-man about it considering their relative ages, but it was lawful.
The fact that the crime under discussion was the forcible rape of a thirteen-year-old whom the rapist has drugged should not be swept under the rug. Sexual assault is not comparable to consensual sex, period, even though consensual sex with an underage girl is a serious crime. This isn’t a difficult concept.
jaed (0f890e) — 10/2/2009 @ 6:37 amPat
I’m not defending him at all he belongs in jail – I just have not heard of any other cases that he had raped other girls forcibly like he did this one.
EricPWJohnson (415ecd) — 10/2/2009 @ 6:44 amImdw,
Nope, never seen “Chinatown”.
What do you use on kids, Two Buck Chuck?
PCD (1d8b6d) — 10/2/2009 @ 6:50 amIn Polanski’s world this is normal behavior. Which is why so many of his colleagues support him.
France should have made him into a UN peacekeeper.
Amphipolis (b120ce) — 10/2/2009 @ 6:57 amThe victim’s hope for for anonymity was destroyed by Polanski’s fleeing; I completely understand her continued desire for it. The articles, op-eds, and book I see as more of a renewed plea for it, rather than an attempt to publicity.
htom (412a17) — 10/2/2009 @ 7:04 amFrom 1977 Time article:
“Three days after his arrest he appeared at a fashionable restaurant accompanied by a girl who looked not a great deal older than the age of consent.”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,914846,00.html
There must have been plenty of photographs of this. Maybe he brought Kinski to the US with him. He had mentioned something about setting up acting lessons with Lee Strasberg who did have a school in Hollywood, I believe.
If they have Oktoberfest photos of Polanski with Kinski in Germany 1976 and then photos with the two together in California a few months later, with a rape of a 13 year old in between, well, you just can’t let the guy off lightly for globetrotting with a 15 year old girl and forcibly raping other underage girls as you find them.
j curtis (baef6f) — 10/2/2009 @ 7:24 amI haven’t seen this anywhere, but to me it seems quite probable that the reason Polanski’s victim is now saying that she doesn’t want this case pursued and that she has forgiven him is because making statements like that was part of the civil case settlement.
Hank Archer (d8389b) — 10/2/2009 @ 11:45 am“Forget it, Johnny – it’s Polynesian Town!”
mojo (8096f2) — 10/2/2009 @ 12:09 pmRE’ Polanski’s raping more than one underage girl.
corwin (98b92b) — 10/3/2009 @ 6:02 amI concur strongly with Patrick. My father treated a hs girl who had been raped,but knocked unconscious prior to the rape-so it might not be ‘rape-rape’, and impregnated during the act.He tolld her,’You little bitch.You’re the first who ever fought. ” A sophisticated man-for a Midwesterner,he doped her _soft drink .Dad oereformed an abortion.NO charges filed .OOps,he did it again .And again.
The funniest new development is the fact that Polanski’s lawyers may have caused the arrest by trying to have the warrant quashed.
Roman Polanski’s attorneys helped provoke his arrest by complaining to an appellate court this summer that Los Angeles County prosecutors had made no real effort to capture the filmmaker in his three decades as a fugitive, two law enforcement sources familiar with the case told The Times.
The accusation that the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office was not serious about extraditing Polanski to face sentencing in a child sex case he fled in 1978 was a minor point in two lengthy July court filings by the director’s attorneys.
But the charge caught the attention of prosecutors, who had made several attempts to apprehend Polanski over the years.
This ranks right up there with Martha Stewart’s lawyer telling her to meet with the feds without him present.
But what appears to have set the trip apart was its wide publicity in the weeks after Polanski’s lawyers had accused prosecutors of inaction.
Details of the festival, such as the timing of Polanski’s red carpet stroll and acceptance speech, were readily available online and movie industry publications had said he planned to attend, including a Daily Variety story in early August.
The month before, Polanski’s attorneys had filed two separate documents with the California 2nd District Court of Appeal asking for a dismissal of all charges against the filmmaker in the alleged assault of a 13-year-old girl.
In both filings, the lawyers alleged that the district attorney’s office in effect benefited from Polanski’s absence, because as long as he remained a fugitive, officials could avoid answering allegations of prosecutorial and judicial wrongdoing in the original handling of the case.
“The district attorney’s office, in the 30 years since Mr. Polanski left the jurisdiction, has not once sought to have him extradited. If it had, there would have been a hearing regarding misconduct in this case,” wrote the attorneys, Chad Hummel, Douglas Dalton and Bart Dalton, in a July 7 filing.
Great ! Now they can have that hearing they wanted so badly.
And I do mean badly.
Mike K (2cf494) — 10/3/2009 @ 10:21 amKitty Kat, are you serious in your repeated posting of the absolute same “let us love the butt-raping child-raping artiste” commentary?
Let me be clear here, in case I wasn’t on my other rebuke of you. I hope Roman Polanski meets YOUR 13-year-old daughter while no other adult is around.
(not really, but you know what I mean)
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 10/3/2009 @ 11:28 pmJohn: Read this very slowly: Justice for the victim and Polanski cannot be won under a corrupt justice system then and now.
I believe, two kinds of people when it comes to crime and punishment. There are those who understand that we are a nation of laws, and that our system does not serve vengeance but justice. And those who are like something out of the Old Testament, eye for an eye righteous, lying, arrogant fumers. I like to divide these groups into educated and ignorant
Kitty Kat (4f600a) — 10/3/2009 @ 11:45 pmJohn,
Evidence suggests that the spammer in question (“kitty kat”) is an associate producer of the Polanski documentary.
I’m working up a post about it now.
Looks like I touched a nerve.
Patterico (64318f) — 10/3/2009 @ 11:51 pm#28, #29
Has something been deleted by Patterico? Where are the posts of this “kitty kat”?
Also, again not to defend Polanski (as he committed a felony in the Geimer case no matter what the age of the victim) but you are factually and legally wrong to use Kinski as an example of Polanski having sex with an “underage” girl. “Underage” means under the age of consent in the relevant jurisdiction. In Germany it is, with one exception not relevant here, 14. Kinski was a German citizen in Germany. Polanski committed no crime in having consensual relations with her, and it is Applebaumish dishonesty to suggest that he did.
Cyrus Sanai (3b1f29) — 10/4/2009 @ 12:47 amThe point about Kinski isn’t specifically about legal matters. It points to a pattern of interest in sex with very young girls. Hard as it may be to believe, there are any number, probably a majority, of 40ish men who are not interested in sex with teenagers. And what happened in this case was rape regardless of the victim’s age.
Hank Archer (d8389b) — 10/4/2009 @ 11:13 amIf Polanski was scared that the
judge was not going to be fair to him
he could have withdrawn his plea
See
Betonsports chief David Carruthers changes guilty plea in the US
David Carruthers, who has spent three years under house arrest in Missouri, has withdrawn his “guilty” plea just days before he was due to be sentenced by a US court on racketeering charges for breaching America’s sweeping restrictions on internet gaming.
Source
oph (850930) — 10/4/2009 @ 11:57 amhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/30/betonsports-boss-changes-guilty-plea-in-us
Cyrus Sanai,
Are you sure the German age of consent is 14? The current age of consent seems more nuanced than you suggest, and Wiki suggests it was even more nuanced before 1994. And if this Wiki entry is correct, Polanski would not meet either exception under German law: He was more than 21 when Kinski was under 16, and she was “unblemished.”
DRJ (b008f8) — 10/4/2009 @ 1:31 pmPlus, how do we know that Polanski did not engage in sexual relations with Kinski in other jurisdictions in EU with different “age of consent” laws?
AD - RtR/OS! (4702ac) — 10/4/2009 @ 1:45 pmJust for the pleasure of Kitty Kat, since the bovine byproduct responded to my righteous indignation-inspired attack on her: I like the Old Testament, how bout you?
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 10/4/2009 @ 2:05 pm