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	<title>Comments on: Policing Skid Row</title>
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	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: BigGato</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-567219</link>
		<dc:creator>BigGato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-567219</guid>
		<description>In the late &#039;80&#039;s I worked with homeless families at one of the few LA shelters that would take them in. I started out believing that most of the families were different from the chronically mentally ill and drug addicted single homeless men, that they were poor people that had been pushed into homelessness by the gentrification of their buildings and neighborhoods by Reaganomics. I was soon to change my naive attitude. All, I repeat, all of these homeless families had lost their housing due to the parents spending the rent money on crack (including the photogenic family in a popular coffee table book of artistic photographs of the homeless). Shelter staff did not make this public as it would have endangered our funding base. 
At least we had a zero tolerance policy regarding crime and drug use in the shelter.
The children were the ones who suffered from their parents addictions and the willfull blindness of the staff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the late &#8217;80&#8217;s I worked with homeless families at one of the few LA shelters that would take them in. I started out believing that most of the families were different from the chronically mentally ill and drug addicted single homeless men, that they were poor people that had been pushed into homelessness by the gentrification of their buildings and neighborhoods by Reaganomics. I was soon to change my naive attitude. All, I repeat, all of these homeless families had lost their housing due to the parents spending the rent money on crack (including the photogenic family in a popular coffee table book of artistic photographs of the homeless). Shelter staff did not make this public as it would have endangered our funding base.<br />
At least we had a zero tolerance policy regarding crime and drug use in the shelter.<br />
The children were the ones who suffered from their parents addictions and the willfull blindness of the staff.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559940</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559940</guid>
		<description>Yes, there are many misconceptions. Anecdotally, the artists who are encouraged to buy lofts down there are aligned with the LAPD against advocates. They know the true score down there. A student friend of mine wrote a good paper on the problem, and the do-gooder advocates are a big part of it.

My question is, who is advocating that these criminal or mentally ill or drug-addicted persons should be exempt from the laws of society? Is this part of some Cloward-Piven strategy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there are many misconceptions. Anecdotally, the artists who are encouraged to buy lofts down there are aligned with the LAPD against advocates. They know the true score down there. A student friend of mine wrote a good paper on the problem, and the do-gooder advocates are a big part of it.</p>
<p>My question is, who is advocating that these criminal or mentally ill or drug-addicted persons should be exempt from the laws of society? Is this part of some Cloward-Piven strategy?</p>
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		<title>By: SPQR</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559932</link>
		<dc:creator>SPQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559932</guid>
		<description>It is not going to take a change in public opinion, Mike K., but in constitutional law.  The state mental hospitals largely lost their ability to compel treatment due to ACLU &quot;victories&quot; that create high standards.  Those cases can&#039;t merely be overturned by public opinion nor even legislation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not going to take a change in public opinion, Mike K., but in constitutional law.  The state mental hospitals largely lost their ability to compel treatment due to ACLU &#8220;victories&#8221; that create high standards.  Those cases can&#8217;t merely be overturned by public opinion nor even legislation.</p>
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		<title>By: MIke K</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559704</link>
		<dc:creator>MIke K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559704</guid>
		<description>I used to take my students to the skid row area in their first year of medical school. For years, we had a guide who had lived on the streets for ten years. He had been a crack addict and he showed us his spot on the sidewalk. There is a long mural and he lived under the painting of Florence Griffith Joyner (Who lived in Mission Viejo). He said he would get high and lie there and watch her run. He had been clean for years but still knew most of the people there. One was a woman midget who he said had once been in the Roller Derby.

Anyway, we met some real advocates, the ones who do something about it instead of talk and showboat. We would always go to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lehrerarchitects.com/inst/dropin/dropin.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Downtown Drop-in Center&lt;/a&gt;, which was new then. The manager told us that 60% of the homeless are mentally ill and 60 % are addicts. Half of each group is both. The center was staffed by former clients who were getting themselves clean and lived in local SRO hotels. We could walk outside and see the drug dealers working the street but the video cameras kept them outside the center where clients could shower and launder clothes and sleep in a bed for 8 hours. There was a waiting list for the beds.

We also visited the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.midnightmission.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Midnight Mission&lt;/a&gt;, another no nonsense place which locked the doors at 7 PM. The men could come and go all day but after 7 they could only go out, not come in until morning. Our guide was scheduled to speak one night for cocaine anonymous. The room was packed; all black men. He was a spellbinding speaker. We were the only whites around.

There are places that try with these folks but the homeless problem exploded with the closing of the state mental hospitals in the 1960s and, until the public attitude about mental illness changes again, nothing can be done. The jails fill with people who should be in mental illness facilities.

I took the students there to show them where a lot of their patients came from and how foolish it is to prescribe a medicine that requires refrigeration to someone who lives in a refrigerator box, or a medicine to be taken every six hours to someone who does not own a clock.

There are a lot of misconceptions. One shelter manager told us that the homeless clients he saw could eat six hot meals a day if they chose to. Nobody starves. They can also keep appointments. There is &lt;a href=&quot;http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-29/news/ci-2916_1_medical-mobile-unit&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a medical clinic in a motor home&lt;/a&gt; that makes the rounds of the shelters on a schedule. Homeless shelter residents, who are those with less pathology and better thinking, can have a blood test drawn one week and get results the next week. Most of them show up for the results.

This is a problem that can be largely solved but it will take a change in public opinion. So far, that seems unlikely. We had one patient with badly ulcerated feet who lived on the sidewalk in front of a church in Pasadena. One of the parishioners, known to one of my students, had offered to put him in a hotel room at his expense to get him off the street. The patient declined saying he was waiting for an apartment. We saw him in the County Hospital a few weeks later, where I heard the story. He was probably going to lose his foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to take my students to the skid row area in their first year of medical school. For years, we had a guide who had lived on the streets for ten years. He had been a crack addict and he showed us his spot on the sidewalk. There is a long mural and he lived under the painting of Florence Griffith Joyner (Who lived in Mission Viejo). He said he would get high and lie there and watch her run. He had been clean for years but still knew most of the people there. One was a woman midget who he said had once been in the Roller Derby.</p>
<p>Anyway, we met some real advocates, the ones who do something about it instead of talk and showboat. We would always go to the <a href="http://www.lehrerarchitects.com/inst/dropin/dropin.htm" rel="nofollow">Downtown Drop-in Center</a>, which was new then. The manager told us that 60% of the homeless are mentally ill and 60 % are addicts. Half of each group is both. The center was staffed by former clients who were getting themselves clean and lived in local SRO hotels. We could walk outside and see the drug dealers working the street but the video cameras kept them outside the center where clients could shower and launder clothes and sleep in a bed for 8 hours. There was a waiting list for the beds.</p>
<p>We also visited the <a href="http://www.midnightmission.org/" rel="nofollow"> Midnight Mission</a>, another no nonsense place which locked the doors at 7 PM. The men could come and go all day but after 7 they could only go out, not come in until morning. Our guide was scheduled to speak one night for cocaine anonymous. The room was packed; all black men. He was a spellbinding speaker. We were the only whites around.</p>
<p>There are places that try with these folks but the homeless problem exploded with the closing of the state mental hospitals in the 1960s and, until the public attitude about mental illness changes again, nothing can be done. The jails fill with people who should be in mental illness facilities.</p>
<p>I took the students there to show them where a lot of their patients came from and how foolish it is to prescribe a medicine that requires refrigeration to someone who lives in a refrigerator box, or a medicine to be taken every six hours to someone who does not own a clock.</p>
<p>There are a lot of misconceptions. One shelter manager told us that the homeless clients he saw could eat six hot meals a day if they chose to. Nobody starves. They can also keep appointments. There is <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-29/news/ci-2916_1_medical-mobile-unit" rel="nofollow">a medical clinic in a motor home</a> that makes the rounds of the shelters on a schedule. Homeless shelter residents, who are those with less pathology and better thinking, can have a blood test drawn one week and get results the next week. Most of them show up for the results.</p>
<p>This is a problem that can be largely solved but it will take a change in public opinion. So far, that seems unlikely. We had one patient with badly ulcerated feet who lived on the sidewalk in front of a church in Pasadena. One of the parishioners, known to one of my students, had offered to put him in a hotel room at his expense to get him off the street. The patient declined saying he was waiting for an apartment. We saw him in the County Hospital a few weeks later, where I heard the story. He was probably going to lose his foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis D</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559671</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559671</guid>
		<description>As a former business owner in the South Bronx I have had years of experience with the Homeless. A few blocks from my business was a &quot; Box City&quot; of homeless living on the grounds of a brickyard. GThe owner would pay them to clean cement off used bricks. I also would employ them in various odd jobs but none of them were reliable. Almost every single one of them was a male substance abuser. I remember one young man they called HERCULES who I tried to help. He was incredibly strong but hooked on crack. I don&#039;t think he was 23 yet but he was a very likeable fellow. One evening in the produce market a few of my men called in sick and I was desparate for help so I asked Herc if he wanted to work.  He agreed and said he would return after bathing at a fire hydrant and getting something clean to wear. Herc never returned and later I found out that he broke into a vehicle to steal the clean pants. I am not sure what can be done with these folks. They can be in prison for year and within days of release they return to crack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former business owner in the South Bronx I have had years of experience with the Homeless. A few blocks from my business was a &#8221; Box City&#8221; of homeless living on the grounds of a brickyard. GThe owner would pay them to clean cement off used bricks. I also would employ them in various odd jobs but none of them were reliable. Almost every single one of them was a male substance abuser. I remember one young man they called HERCULES who I tried to help. He was incredibly strong but hooked on crack. I don&#8217;t think he was 23 yet but he was a very likeable fellow. One evening in the produce market a few of my men called in sick and I was desparate for help so I asked Herc if he wanted to work.  He agreed and said he would return after bathing at a fire hydrant and getting something clean to wear. Herc never returned and later I found out that he broke into a vehicle to steal the clean pants. I am not sure what can be done with these folks. They can be in prison for year and within days of release they return to crack.</p>
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		<title>By: Old Coot</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559650</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Coot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559650</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Maybe they’re used to urine stench or something …&lt;/blockquote&gt; If they are from Paris they certainly are used to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Maybe they’re used to urine stench or something …</p></blockquote>
<p> If they are from Paris they certainly are used to it.</p>
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		<title>By: happyfeet</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559646</link>
		<dc:creator>happyfeet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559646</guid>
		<description>Lots of places in Los Angeles smell like urine still though still. I hate that. They build these tunnel thingers under the freeways. You&#039;re not supposed to use them for real ... the other day I had to stop these daffy Eurotourists from wandering into one. Maybe they&#039;re used to urine stench or something ... but me I can&#039;t get within 30 feet of those tunnels sometimes without wanting to retch. Then they clean them and they stink like some sort of stench-killing chemical for awhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of places in Los Angeles smell like urine still though still. I hate that. They build these tunnel thingers under the freeways. You&#8217;re not supposed to use them for real &#8230; the other day I had to stop these daffy Eurotourists from wandering into one. Maybe they&#8217;re used to urine stench or something &#8230; but me I can&#8217;t get within 30 feet of those tunnels sometimes without wanting to retch. Then they clean them and they stink like some sort of stench-killing chemical for awhile.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/09/29/policing-skid-row/comment-page-1/#comment-559625</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=32186#comment-559625</guid>
		<description>Some of the homeless are helpless. This subset has special needs due to an array of mental and or physical disorders.
These people become prey.

The newly homeless are also preyed upon.
You can watch this happen like a time lapse photo.
Female shows up fairly clean in what used to be nice clothes with a bag or cart of all she has left in life.
Then you see her with a black eye, dirty, missing her good shoes and clothes wearing whatever.
She&#039;s been beaten and robbed of her good stuff and probably raped. She has to hook up with protection quick. That&#039;ll cost her... she&#039;ll be pimped out for whatever. If she was not addicted to drugs and alcohol before, she is now to deal with the awful world she&#039;s tumbled into.
Same goes for the new guys or the older ones.
I met an older guy with no money, a mental disability that required medication who was out on the streets who was pretty upset. His sister had come into town and bought him new tennis shoes, new jeans and a new sweatshirt and had insisted he change into it all and throw the old stuff away... he stood out like a sore thumb and was upset because he knew he was going to get his ass kicked and jacked for his shoes and sweatshirt before the night was over.

For whatever reason a lot of the homeless advocates I meet do not want to catergorize some of the homeless as predators and see everyone down there as innocents trapped by circumstances beyond their control.
The police can&#039;t fix the problem, but they can  provide protection from predators and momentum.
Momentum is way underrated. &quot;Move it along&quot; towards a shelter or up out of here at least. Move away from and seperate from the addicts, the pimps, the violent psychotics, the dealers.

The most violent places I&#039;ve ever been was alone in hobo jungles. The predators in those areas hit hard first and ask questions later. There is always a sucker punch coming, or they just open the party with a chunk of wood, a rock, or rebar.
One was &quot;owned&quot; by some idiot native Americans up in the Seattle underground area when I got off a freight I&#039;d hopped. Law of the f******* jungle... way worse than jail. I had to fight my way out and was lucky they were too drunk to get organized.
 Same thing when I had to exit early up in west Oakland. Walking through the streets next to the projects that are tucked in along the bend of the freeway and rail yard there; getting punched because I wouldn&#039;t pay the &quot;rent&quot; for walking through their neighborhood. They tore off my shoes looking for hidden cash, emptied my pack all over the street and tried to beat the rest of the crap out of me for being &quot; a white boy with no money&quot;. (I had some cash hidden in my old, filthy pack, but the dumbasses didn&#039;t find it) A good man shamed them away, helped me gather what was left of my stuff and walked me through the streets like a guardian angel to the far side of the rail yard where I could hop another freight to the Roseville hump yard where I could get my own box car go east across Salt Lake and over Promotory point to Wyoming, heal up a bit out in the Wind River range
 
anyway... wandering memories aside...
 
Lawless environments breed crime and despair and need more police, not less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the homeless are helpless. This subset has special needs due to an array of mental and or physical disorders.<br />
These people become prey.</p>
<p>The newly homeless are also preyed upon.<br />
You can watch this happen like a time lapse photo.<br />
Female shows up fairly clean in what used to be nice clothes with a bag or cart of all she has left in life.<br />
Then you see her with a black eye, dirty, missing her good shoes and clothes wearing whatever.<br />
She&#8217;s been beaten and robbed of her good stuff and probably raped. She has to hook up with protection quick. That&#8217;ll cost her&#8230; she&#8217;ll be pimped out for whatever. If she was not addicted to drugs and alcohol before, she is now to deal with the awful world she&#8217;s tumbled into.<br />
Same goes for the new guys or the older ones.<br />
I met an older guy with no money, a mental disability that required medication who was out on the streets who was pretty upset. His sister had come into town and bought him new tennis shoes, new jeans and a new sweatshirt and had insisted he change into it all and throw the old stuff away&#8230; he stood out like a sore thumb and was upset because he knew he was going to get his ass kicked and jacked for his shoes and sweatshirt before the night was over.</p>
<p>For whatever reason a lot of the homeless advocates I meet do not want to catergorize some of the homeless as predators and see everyone down there as innocents trapped by circumstances beyond their control.<br />
The police can&#8217;t fix the problem, but they can  provide protection from predators and momentum.<br />
Momentum is way underrated. &#8220;Move it along&#8221; towards a shelter or up out of here at least. Move away from and seperate from the addicts, the pimps, the violent psychotics, the dealers.</p>
<p>The most violent places I&#8217;ve ever been was alone in hobo jungles. The predators in those areas hit hard first and ask questions later. There is always a sucker punch coming, or they just open the party with a chunk of wood, a rock, or rebar.<br />
One was &#8220;owned&#8221; by some idiot native Americans up in the Seattle underground area when I got off a freight I&#8217;d hopped. Law of the f******* jungle&#8230; way worse than jail. I had to fight my way out and was lucky they were too drunk to get organized.<br />
 Same thing when I had to exit early up in west Oakland. Walking through the streets next to the projects that are tucked in along the bend of the freeway and rail yard there; getting punched because I wouldn&#8217;t pay the &#8220;rent&#8221; for walking through their neighborhood. They tore off my shoes looking for hidden cash, emptied my pack all over the street and tried to beat the rest of the crap out of me for being &#8221; a white boy with no money&#8221;. (I had some cash hidden in my old, filthy pack, but the dumbasses didn&#8217;t find it) A good man shamed them away, helped me gather what was left of my stuff and walked me through the streets like a guardian angel to the far side of the rail yard where I could hop another freight to the Roseville hump yard where I could get my own box car go east across Salt Lake and over Promotory point to Wyoming, heal up a bit out in the Wind River range</p>
<p>anyway&#8230; wandering memories aside&#8230;</p>
<p>Lawless environments breed crime and despair and need more police, not less.</p>
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