“No president has ever been treated like that. Ever.”
[Guest post by DRJ]
So says Rahm Emanuel regarding Rep. Joe Wilson’s heated “You Lie” directed at President Obama in last night’s Joint Session of Congress. Emanuel may be right about cat-calls in that venue — provided you exclude when Democrats booed President Bush in his 2005 State of the Union address [EDIT: and other examples in this thorough post at The Jury Talks Back] — but he’s wrong that public officials never indulge in Presidential name-calling:
“President Obama accused Bill Clinton of peddling “bald-faced lies” during the presidential campaign, according to a new book on the 2008 race.
Newsweek reporter Richard Wolffe writes in “Renegade: The Making of a President” that Obama’s campaign struggled to figure out how to respond to former President Clinton, who during the early primaries was a fierce defender of his wife Hillary Clinton’s bid for the Democratic nomination.
“We had to figure out how to deal with a former president who was just lying, engaging in bald-faced lies,” Obama told Wolffe. He also boasted about his campaign’s ultimate ability to take on the former president.”
Please note this post is about comparisons, and it isn’t a defense of Wilson’s comment or Obama’s.
— DRJ
Hiostory for these people began on 20 JAN 09.
That speech was so chock-full of lies that it is surprising that one second of truth-telling has them all overcome with the vapors. So, Teh One can call people bickering liars for disagreeing with him, but when someone calls him out when he is lying (which is something Barcky threatened to do), now it is the worst thing EVAH !
JD (957e20) — 9/10/2009 @ 3:57 pmSee also “The Jury Talks Back” from last night.
Kevin Murphy (805c5b) — 9/10/2009 @ 3:58 pmLet me say upfront that I too think it was inappropriate to shout out like that and interrupt the President’s speech last night. That said, however, I would point out that immediately before Congressman Wilson accused President Obama of lying, the President had done the same to Sarah Palin, though not directly by name. Here is the relevant part of the speech (emphasis added):
What I don’t understand from the Obamabots is why it was good and well for Mr. Obama to accuse his opponents (basically in this instance Mrs. Palin) of lying, but suddenly it is so awful for Mr. Wilson to turn the tables on Mr. Obama. I have a feeling that most defenders of Mr. Obama will dwell on the propriety of interrupting the President’s speech, which most of us have already acknowledged. As to the allegations of lying, however, how do we square Mr. Obama’s actions with those of Mr. Wilson?
JVW (d1215a) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:02 pmI should also have bolded “prominent politicians” in the above Obama quote too.
JVW (d1215a) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:04 pmComparatively speaking, I would say that Barack Obama’s comments were made in the context of a media that would aggressively evaluate the truthfulness of his opponents’ statements. Seen in this way, Barack Obama’s shrill name-calling was wholly gratuitous, in that a sympathetic media was bound to discover these lies on their own.
Joe Wilson’s comment, on the other hand, was made in the context of a media that is lethargic at best with respect to evaluating the truthfulness of Mr. Wilson’s political opponents and, at worst, will outright cover for the lies of Mr. Wilson’s political opponents. In context then, Joe Wilson’s comment was a wholesome spur to journalistic integrity, for which he deserves our gratitude.
happyfeet (71f55e) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:05 pmOur Big-D dears say they want a vigourous democracy, yet they faint dead-away at the slightest push-back.
AD - RtR/OS! (5b5739) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:06 pmHow would they handle a “Question Time”?
Our “Best & Brightest” aren’t!
I think Emanuel was talking JUST about the voicing of catcalls during a President’s address to Congress.
Still, he’s wrong, and given how smart he is, almost certainly knows it (that is, he’s lying). Bush was booed by half or more of the Democrats in his SOTU speech in January 2005 when Bush said that Social Security was going broke.
Mitch (890cbf) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:07 pmLovie has been pushing this “worst treatment EVAH” meme all day. The lies about not adding one dime to the deficit and the gross lie in the anecdote about Raddatz were noxious. If you do not want to be called a liar, you should not lie right to people’s faces.
JD (957e20) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:15 pmKevin Murphy,
Very well done. I’ve added a link to your post.
DRJ (6a2898) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:25 pmhe should have yelled “Yer a F’ing liar…”
but then again, i’m just a bitter clingy red neck Valley dude….. %-)
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:31 pmSarah Palin and her ilk did lie about the so called “Death Panels”. He was right about that one. And note, he did not call her by name. If you think Palin did not lie, provide evidence. And as for giving coverage to illegals, that is also not true. If you don’t think so, prove it. Admit it. Wilson is a big embarrassment to an already embarrassed party.
The Emperor (1b037c) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:34 pmEmp,
in her own words (from my blog)
Sarah Palin, who had this to say,
In his speech the President directly responded to concerns I’ve raised about unelected bureaucrats being given power to make decisions affecting life or death health care matters. He called these concerns “bogus,” “irresponsible,” and “a lie” — so much for civility. After all the name-calling, though, what he did not do is respond to the arguments we’ve made, arguments even some of his own supporters have agreed have merit.
In fact, after promising to “make sure that no government bureaucrat …. gets between you and the health care you need,” the President repeated his call for an Independent Medicare Advisory Council — an unelected, largely unaccountable group of bureaucrats charged with containing Medicare costs. He did not disavow his own statement that such a group, working outside of “normal political channels,” should guide decisions regarding that “huge driver of cost … the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives….” (emphasis mine)
Gazzer (22ecdc) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:38 pmRep. Joe Wilson is soooo busted. Everyone else in the media can forget about a Pulitzer this year.
Karl (246941) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:49 pmIt is a shame that no one else calls o on his lies. Some one needed to do it and in a forum where it gets attention. Ignoring them tends to make people believe he’s telling the truth, when EVERYONE knows he’s not. HU-AH Joe!!!
Jim (582155) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:50 pmFrankly, I think (except for the State of the Union) Congress should feel free to heckle the President at these speeches.
After all, the President is simply using this as a political tool. It’s nothing more than a photo-op type speech to advance his partisan agenda. It is not a constitutional requirement like the state of the union. And, it appears that O! is going to keep using this device to get free t.v. time and seem “presidential”. Nobody should let a president get away with that – republican or democrat.
Also, I would prefer a more robust debate between the President and members of conress, like they have in England. I think that would actually be better for democracy.
Why should the President get a captive audiance and reverance when he is simply doing a hack partisan speech that attacks his opponents and calls them names? That demeans the office of the president and the joint session of congress.
Monkeytoe (026db2) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:55 pmThe Hill, The Onion. Same same.
happyfeet (71f55e) — 9/10/2009 @ 4:57 pmThat is quite funny/pathetic, Karl.
I see lovie has decided that lying is a quality that she values.
JD (28f89b) — 9/10/2009 @ 5:11 pmKarl, this is a serious question, is that Hill piece for real? It reads like a parody.
Gazzer (22ecdc) — 9/10/2009 @ 5:13 pmYou know, it is a good thing that Wilson didn’t snort cocaine. Or have a gay boyfriend run a brothel out of his government paid apartment. Or play “Senator Sandwich” with cocktail waitresses while drunk.
But that’s different, as usual.
As I have written before, there are cracks in this “Hope and Change” nonsense, and it is a combination of the silly hypocrisy and the adoring press coverage.
I thought Raum Emmanuel was smart, rather than simply profane.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 9/10/2009 @ 5:40 pmJD, it’s not lying when it is your hero doing the lying. Because if it was lying that took place, that would reflect on you and your vote, and you could not possibly have made a mistake.
Anyway, anyone who makes a hero out of a politician isn’t very mature.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 9/10/2009 @ 5:41 pmObama and his people can dish it out but whine like little kindergarteners when they get a fraction of it back.
Whiny little children. That’s who is running the greatest nation on Earth.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:18 pmSarah Palin and her ilk did lie about the so called “Death Panels”. He was right about that one. And note, he did not call her by name. If you think Palin did not lie, provide evidence. And as for giving coverage to illegals, that is also not true. If you don’t think so, prove it. Admit it. Wilson is a big embarrassment to an already embarrassed party.
Comment by The Emperor
You are so silly, you have to be a girl in spite of your protests. A blonde, at that. The death panels were an inspired description of rationing which Obama calls “unnecessary treatment” like his grandmother’s hip replacement which was undoubtedly for a hip fracture. The guy is so cold and ungrateful for the efforts those people made on his behalf, he is a bit scary.
As for illegals, tell me why repeated attempts to add amendments requiring proof of citizenship for membership were voted down by Democrats over and over and over. It’s a bit like proof of prostitution. If you see money change hands, a motel room and a satisfied look on the face of the customer, you still don’t have proof by your standards.
Emp, you need a life.
Mike K (41787b) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:24 pmEmp could use some integrity too.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:25 pmHmm. Gay boyfriend strikes me as a tautology in that context, Mr. Blair. But having a tautological gay boyfriend would probably be even more scandalous I think.
hbappyfeet (6b707a) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:28 pmoh. that was me I just accidentally typed an extra b for no reason.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:29 pmBy the way, I tried to call Wilson today to congratulate him. The web site said the traffic today had shut them down. What is so funny is that Democrats are horrified that Republicans finally read “Rules for Radicals.” This stuff is right out of that book. It was just hilarious to see Pelosi take the bait and go for a censure today until, finally, somebody with sense told her to stop, shut up and calm down. Once again, Obama got his big message stepped on by a little guy, like the Cambridge cop, who had distracted the Great One with the truth. This is the way you do it. The Great One gets going with his message and the little guy interrupts with something like “The Emperor has no clothes !” After the hysteria dies down, the lefties realize their Bible was used against them once more.
I love it.
Mike K (41787b) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:30 pmHey Rahm baby–payback’s a bitch. You call our side liars–then lie to us–and we’ll call you a liar.
Mike Myers (3b216c) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:38 pmEvery word out of Hussein’s mouth last night was either a lie by commission or a lie by omission. Every single claim. Worse than being such a brazen liar is the fact that that worthless lying communist piece of shit tells such transparent and stupid lies. The arrogance of not only lying to us but believing the average American is too stupid to not even realize they are being lied o. Wilson’s only mistake was apologizing for telling the truth. The only apology needed is Obama’s for the lies he has repeated and the destruction of the economy he has caused.
“Sarah Palin and her ilk did lie about the so called “Death Panels”. He was right about that one. And note, he did not call her by name. If you think Palin did not lie, provide evidence. And as for giving coverage to illegals, that is also not true. If you don’t think so, prove it. Admit it. Wilson is a big embarrassment to an already embarrassed party.
Comment by The Emperor — 9/10/2009 @ 4:34 pm”
Illegals, yes Palin spoke the truth. The bill does not allow to ask or verify citizenship. Death panels, only an idiot or a liberal but then again I repeat myself, would believe that cutting $500 billion from medicare won’t result in life prolonging care to the elderly. That cargo cult fool thinks he is going to reduce costs by eliminating fraud and waste, they have had 45 years to do it with respects to medicare and medicaid and they have not been able to do it. Now they are going to do it? Admit it, Obama is an incompetent idiot and liar and the democrats are the party of treason, corruption and marxism. Obama is the poster boy of the party of lies, liars, thieves and crooks and new age communists.
cubanbob (409ac2) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:40 pmWhen has a major media outlet used forged documents in a hatchet job on President Obama?
Michael Ejercito (833607) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:42 pm‘“No president has ever been treated like that. Ever,” Mr. Emanuel said.’
Oh brother.
Is there anything that liberals won’t lie about?
I mean these guys are pathological.
Dave Surls (d45e49) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:52 pmSo declareth Rahm the Weasel. Carve it in stone, baby!
mojo (74ba73) — 9/10/2009 @ 6:57 pmIf the dirty socialists are still smarting over this come tomorrow it’ll be charmingly twee I think. I’ll have to remember to check NPR.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:03 pmMike K:
Hey! The girl thing doesn’t bother me (and, like you, I think The Emperor is female) but I’m registering my protest as a blonde. Watch out or I’ll post the Best Blonde Joke Ever at your website.
(PS – You know I’m just kidding you, right?)
DRJ (6a2898) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:11 pmI don’t really understand why Palin’s “death panel” comment is so hard to understand.
A universal, government-run health care system will, by definition, have to have “death panels.”
Look, just imagine if you’re some Washington bureaucrat thumbing through your latest stack of papers regarding which patient should receive life-giving care. And you come across a 55-year-old man (give or take a few years) with a history of pancreatic cancer, now in remission, who needs a liver transplant.
What are you going to do?
Well, what you’re going to do is look at the case, then kick it upstairs for someone above your pay-grade to approve.
Then that up-stairs guy is going to get with his colleagues and they’re going confer and say: “Damn, a liver transplant is awfully expensive. And he already had pancreatic cancer and the five-year survival rate of that is less than two years. So, sorry, no liver transplant.” Of course that decision probably will take more than two years.
And, boom, you’ve killed Steven Jobs.
How, exactly, is that not a “death panel?”
No, that’s not implicit in the current bills in Congress, but how else would it work?
Ag80 (f3cd33) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:15 pmHeh. DRJ, I typed up a few tart responses to Mike K but decided to quietly forgive his momentary lapse of sanity and descent into madness. We silly girls take the high road.
Dana (863a65) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:16 pmI don’t get it. 😉
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:19 pmSorry to disappoint you DRJ. And I do love blondes. 😉
The Emperor (1b037c) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:23 pmPlitifact:
“We read all 1,000-plus pages of the health care bill and were struck by the fact that it is largely silent on health care for illegal immigrants. Keep in mind that experts estimated there were 6.8 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States in 2007, out of a total of 11.9 million illegal immigrants. Right now, most states have laws on the books that require hospitals to treat severely ill people who arrive at the hospital, regardless of immigration status, and we didn’t see anything that would change those laws, either.
Most illegal immigrants are also now excluded from Medicaid, the government-run health care for the poor. We didn’t see anything that would change that.”
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/
Palin lied. And all any of you say is that death panels are inevitable, as if it were in the Democrats’ genetic makeup.
Meanwhile you still won’t admit that Bush’s Texas Futile Care Law panel killed people. You can lie all you want or you can google Tirhas Habtegiris, Sun Hudson and Andrea Clark. Stop lying to yourselves first.
And Obama was booed last night, but I’ve read complaints only about the single outburst by Wilson. And the last time he was forced to apologize it was for telling Strom Thurmond’s illegitimate daughter to keep her stories to herself.
JW Democrat (213e20) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:24 pmLike Thurmond Wilson is a once and future pig.
DRJ:
Blonde, an attorney, and from Texas (I’ll bet she can cover the x-ring at 25-yds, too)!
MikeK, you are so …ked!
AD - RtR/OS! (b23cdc) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:26 pmEmperor said:
When did Bush get heckled while giving a policy speech in the congress? Please refresh my memory. When did a member of the opposition call a sitting President a liar to his face. While speaking in congress. Maybe that will help establish how you are such a man of impeccable integrity.
He wasn’t “heckled,” he was booed. And I’ll give your side credit for not voicing what they thought.
But plenty of politicians on your side called him a liar — and do to this day.
And, again, I’ll give your side credit, they didn’t do it in a certain venue.
But, when you call someone a liar, does the venue really matter?
Ag80 (f3cd33) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:27 pmPoint to DRJ.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:30 pmMeanwhile, the Obama shills like Olbermann are up to their usual tactic digging for dirt on opponents rather than actual … you know, arguments.
Another hero of The Emperor’s.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:34 pmAg80,
You need to use the Lovey/imdw mode of debate, like this:
Then, you need to insist that others prove it’s not true, ignoring all evidence that contradicts any portion of that statement. Repeat often that they haven’t proven you wrong. Declare yourself the winner and that anyone who disagreed is a pathetic loser who resides in an echo-chamber. If someone brings it up later, ignore that it ever happened except to say you were proven right and they should get over it.
Got it?
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:42 pmPlitifact:
What politifact should have looked for is the verification procedures in Medicare, which have been stripped from HR 3200, and the Democratic members of Congress who voted against adding them back in during committee hearings.
GaryC (c1edfb) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:42 pmBTW, for those who don’t get it, my #42 was a joke.
Evidently, the Congressional Research Service agrees that the bill as currently written does not prohibit illegal aliens from coverage.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:46 pmAg80, I think your response is the most honest and reasonable I have read on this blog. On this issue. I agree with you that the venue is not as important as the offence. Politicians are no saints. We know they tell lies. To advance their agenda or to protect themselves. Being called out on it is the right thing to do. If you can prove it. That is a given. The difference is that the manner in which this was done is wrong. People should be taught to respect the office. Even if you despise the person occupying it. What Wilson did was disgraceful and regrettable. Whether he did it to a Democrat or a Republican.
The Emperor (1b037c) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:46 pmI don’t think people are talking about presidents being interrupted. Or being called liars. Even from the floor in a speech. I think its about the decorum of the event and a member of the house doing it the interruption with such content. Then again, I welcome our government taking on more of a House of Commons feel.
That it is a former aide to Strom thurmond, who is a member of the sons of the confederate veterans, and fought to keep the confederate flag over the statehouse, that all just makes me think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I11w-rl6iaY
imdw (1635c7) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:55 pmPeople should be taught to respect the office.
I wholeheartedly agree. And I think most importantly, the President himself – whether a D or an R – should lead the way. It was bad form for Wilson to holler out like that, whether or not he was just expressing the very thing that a majority of the country is also thinking.
Dana (863a65) — 9/10/2009 @ 7:59 pmIt was a wholly gratuitous and cheesy event where little pezzydent man hijacked prime time cause waaah waaah no one wanted his dirty socialist health cares and little pezzydent man is just gonna pout until he gets his way.
Little pezzydent man if he’s not careful is gonna end up being the little pezzydent man who got all wee-wee’d up over nuffin and then when there’s real trouble in our little country no one’s gonna listen to his pouty dirty socialist ass.
Mark my words.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:03 pm“Look, just imagine if you’re some Washington bureaucrat thumbing through your latest stack of papers regarding which patient should receive life-giving care.”
Doctor’s should make the decisions, not bureaucrats, and not bureaucrats who work for for profit corporations.
But a question for you: Imagine your 12 your old daughter and George Soros both need liver transplants. Soros is 79.. Say there’s only one liver available and both your daughter and Soros are near death. Should he be able to have the liver first because he can pay? Imagine the decision is up to 3 doctors at the hospital. What should they do? What’s the policy?
JW Democrat (213e20) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:06 pm“The Emperor has no clothes !”
I think of that line everytime I read the comments of the person with the ridiculous screen name of “The Emperor.”
Ass-backwards “leftys” and their sloppy, phony sentiments have no business complaining about the politicization of a speech — by either the speaker or the listerner — of inappropriate responses and words aimed in their direction. Not in light of what Bush encountered a few years ago at the same lectern where the current president was standing last night, and other occasions where such behavior is far, far more inappropriate. Examples abound, such as the repulsive funeral for Paul Wellstone in 2002, Ron Reagan Jr aiming some cheap political barbs during his father’s funeral in 2004, or this event in 2006:
^ I’ve long thought it somehow quite telling and very revealing that a community so in love with simpleminded leftism (ie, surveys indicate that 80-plus percent of black America is aligned with liberals/Democrats—over 90% dissapproved of George Bush) for so many generations should be a perennial mess, both socially and economically.
Mark (411533) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:07 pmThey buried a black activist woman in a way that offended an important and powerful white guy that woman disagreed with. Shocking.
imdw (6f30d0) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:09 pmEmperor:
Well, we do indeed agree. It was indeed the wrong venue, whether Democrat or Republican.
And Wilson apologized. His constituents now will decide his fate. As it should be.
But I do have to direct you to what Stashiu3 said in comment 43.
And what what I said in comment 34.
People who disagree with one another about a point are not necessarily lying. Often they’re telling the truth.
When you disagree with someone, calling them a liar does not advance your cause.
Wilson learned that lesson, although I believe his pretext was correct.
But, now we’ve arrived at the point that “Racist” “Nazi,” “Fascist,” “Socialist” and “Communist,” or for that matter, “liar,” have no context for the evils that those words embody.
They’re simply used to stop debate. Is the right guilty of this? Certainly. Has the left taken this to Herculean heights? Watch Olbermann or read Kos for the answer.
Do right-wingers do the same? Yep. Go on over to Free Republic for that answer.
Does the right mainstream those sentiments? I don’t think so, but you’re here. Look at the the people who comment on Patterico. The regular contributors condemn those who are, or pretend to be, extremists.
Look at the news reports of Wilson’s outburst. Look at who condemned it. Look at his apology.
And go back and look at the same type of rhetoric used against the right and look to see who condemned it.
Ag80 (f3cd33) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:16 pmThey buried a black activist woman in a way that offended an important and powerful white guy that woman disagreed with.
And when someone like that “black activist woman” looks around at all the dysfunction roiling her community, does she ever ask the basic, fundamental question of: “Does our liberalism make us a more decent, humane, gentle, resourceful, generous, sensible, successful part of society? Does it really make us stable, reliable, logical and smart?
“And if black America suddenly became 80% centrist to conservative, would I start resenting everyone all around me, perhaps even start looking in the mirror and hating the reflection staring back at me??”
Mark (411533) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:21 pmJW Democrat said:
“Look, just imagine if you’re some Washington bureaucrat thumbing through your latest stack of papers regarding which patient should receive life-giving care.”
Doctor’s should make the decisions, not bureaucrats, and not bureaucrats who work for for profit corporations.
But a question for you: Imagine your 12 your old daughter and George Soros both need liver transplants. Soros is 79.. Say there’s only one liver available and both your daughter and Soros are near death. Should he be able to have the liver first because he can pay? Imagine the decision is up to 3 doctors at the hospital. What should they do? What’s the policy?
I don’t know the doctors’ decision would be, but knowing a few doctors, I can guess. I would rather them decide than a faceless bureaucrat in Washington who has no stake in the outcome.
You have a rather low opinion of doctors, don’t you?
Ag80 (f3cd33) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:23 pmYou really are vile, imdw.
JD (3cde02) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:25 pmNotice how the IMP has not only brought race into this discussion at #47, but then decided that President Bush was offended at the King funeral, when the article stated nothing like that and instead showed the class of President Bush in his actions throughout….
reff (502473) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:25 pmAnd, of course, I meant:
I don’t know what
Ag80 (f3cd33) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:26 pmHow did you miss the chance to condenm him, JD?
I guess his projecting was just too much, eh???
reff (502473) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:27 pmWe need to see a poster of President Obama making that obscene gesture at the mention of his opponent Sec. Clinton, and ask again about who lacks decency in public discourse.
I know there would be problems, but i still think dueling would be a good place to start…
MD in Philly (d4f9fa) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:29 pmReff – I thought that the unintentional irony and aggressive dishonesty in that statement were in such beautiful harmony that it would be superfluous to comment further on it.
JD (3cde02) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:40 pm“We need to see a poster of President Obama making that obscene gesture at the mention of his opponent Sec. Clinton,”
This one is good, but not as good as birtherism.
“Notice how the IMP has not only brought race into this discussion at #47, but then decided that President Bush was offended at the King funeral, when the article stated nothing like that and instead showed the class of President Bush in his actions throughout…”
So there’s really no need to have them orchestrate her burial around his presence? Perfect then.
imdw (be85b6) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:48 pmUm. “Look over there” comes to mind.
JD, you need to post your “RULES FOR TROLLS,” sort of Alinsky’s book.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:49 pm“I would rather them decide than a faceless bureaucrat in Washington who has no stake in the outcome.
You have a rather low opinion of doctors, don’t you?”
You don’t read very well. So I’l cut and paste from my own comment to give you a second chance:
“Doctor’s should make the decisions, not bureaucrats, and not bureaucrats who work for for profit corporations.”
Obama has said the same thing: Doctors should make the decisions. Every insurance company, however has a “death panel.” The job of insurance companies is to make money for their investors. I doubt you’re going to argue with me on that. It’s basic Republican theology:companies’ responsibility is to their shareholders. “Nationally, a quarter of firms cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness; another quarter do so within a year,”
Every hospital operates a triage system. Every one.
Triage on the profit motive is the wrong way to do it.
Meanwhile the Southern Strategy continues to work its charms. Yesterday here I found a discussion of the merits or lack thereof of Brown vs Board of Education and now It’s Wilson and Thurmond against ML King and family. King has gone down in history a hero and GWB is going down a joke. All the resentment in the world isn’t going to change that.
JW Democrat (213e20) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:55 pm#17 JD:
Always has, always will.
#18 Gazzer:
I doubt its parody, but also note that caffeine is not an addictive psychoactive in spite of its action as a CNS stimulant. IOW, mudslinging and hoping something will stick.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:57 pmI remember GWB. That was back before our whole little country became a squalid dirty socialist joke. His tax cuts made a HUGE deficit. Boy I’m sure glad he’s gone.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 9/10/2009 @ 8:59 pmThe funny part, EW1(SG), is that commenting on a certain prominent politician’s admitted past use of cocaine would be considered out of bounds.
Unlike opining on another former President’s issues with alcohol. That is just fine.
Alphabetism, again. But it sure looks like media hypocrisy to me.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:00 pm#64
It’s the only fair way to do it.
Any other way is a fundamental violation of civil rights.
But the Democrats have always been the party of denial of individual rights, which is why the spectacle at C.S. King’s funeral was so distasteful…staining the memory of a man and woman who had worked for genuine civil rights with the actions of a bunch of racists.
OTOH, you are too damn obtuse to understand that.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:04 pmIt really is a battle between statism and individualism, isn’t it? We keep trying to pin other names on it.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:08 pm#67 Eric Blair:
Dysfunction on scale that meets the definition of mass hysteria.
What I don’t understand is how the human race has managed thus far with as large a percentage of the population engaged in self destructive behaviors. Is it analogous to drosophila in a Bell jar?
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:10 pm#69 Eric Blair:
I have come to believe that it is the defining characteristic of Western Civilization, and that is the fight that we seem to be losing.
And I believe it is worth fighting for.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:12 pmEric Blair – Maybe I will do a post at The Jury about the rules for trolls.So far, they continue to hold quite true.
Imdw and JW Dhimmi are bringing the stupid tonite. I guess we should be comforted in the fact that JW admits that death panels are inevitable. Is there any topic that does not make them scream RACISM ?!
JD (1f2cf6) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:16 pmEW1 – They value people more as their ability to be part of an identity politics group, and ultimately a voting bloc, as opposed to being an individual. It is who they are.
JD (1f2cf6) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:18 pm#73 JD:
That is the problem, isn’t it.
Substitute “privileged” for identity politics group, and “mob” for voting bloc, and we see how little politics has changed throughout history. So long as “their” group can seize control, then they can feel as if their individuality is safe, and the individuality of “others” be hanged.
No wonder the left is happy to make common cause with an ideology of world conquest…they are quite happy in the prospect of sharing the spoils.
And for the rest of us, we are crippled in our fight against them because we do in fact value their individuality, moreso than themselves.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:26 pmEW1(SG): your fruit flies in a jar metaphor is good. I think of it more as the “scorpion and the frog” story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
We have common goals. Yet we destroy ourselves for no good reason.
It also explains Fermi’s Paradox. No aliens are around because as civilizations arise, they create politics like we are developing, and self destruct.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:38 pmEvery hospital operates a triage system. Every one.
Triage on the profit motive is the wrong way to do it.
You obviously know nothing about triage or much else having to do with medicine or even insurance. Like your leader, you know nothing about profit, or business, or economics or anything but Marxist theory.
Your example about liver transplants is another manifestation of ignorance. Liver and other organ transplants are allocated by the regional organ procurement system which uses such things as tissue typing (another thing you know nothing about) to determine compatibility. If Soros wants a transplant organ at a price he can go to Tom Friedman’s ideal society China where they will execute a dissident to use the liver. Most organ transplants in China use that source of organs. And Tom Friedman thinks their system is much more efficient than ours. No messy democracy or town hall protests plus those organ transplants are so efficient.
Mike K (addb13) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:45 pmMike, last month Bill Handel interviewed a guy who took his brother to China for that very reason. It was a harrowing and horrible story – a prisoner lost his life to provide the organ in the belief that his family would be paid some amount for it. Who knows if that happened. The Americans were able to set up meetings, secure the doctor, the organ and have the surgery all rather quickly. Of course it is considered illegal to do this there but apparently in a wink ‘n look away manner.
Money is money and Americans and Euros have it.
Dana (863a65) — 9/10/2009 @ 9:49 pm“But the Democrats have always been the party of denial of individual rights, which is why the spectacle at C.S. King’s funeral was so distasteful…staining the memory of a man and woman who had worked for genuine civil rights with the actions of a bunch of racists.”
How much do you know about the work of Coretta Scott King? Like, what part of her work was “stained”? What part of King’s work was “stained”? The part where they were wiretapped? where they worked for peace? for social justice? And yes, for redistribution of wealth?
imdw (de7003) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:11 pmI’ll bet Joe Wilson knows a lot about the work and life of the Kings.
imdw (be85b6) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:12 pmI am pretty sure that there are stains in underwear that are more honest than imdw.
JD (2cabc2) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:15 pmJack that thread! Jack that thread! Goooooo trolls!
Boy, you all sound nervous about your guy.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:16 pmI think Teh One had a touching tribute to Mr Raddatz’s memory when he lied about his death.
JD (2cabc2) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:17 pmJD,
Perhaps someone should remind him that MLK was a Republican and the ones doing the wiretapping and opposing his work were Democrats. As usual, his points are well-taken… against his own position.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:18 pmI love how imdw just ignores how grossly wrong it was about this topic in its prior comments, and just keeps going on, trying to deflect the topic away from Barcky lying lying lying.
JD (2cabc2) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:21 pmApologies for the wall-o-text.
September 24, 1957
Sparking criticism from Democrats such as Senators John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson, President Dwight Eisenhower deploys the 82nd Airborne Division to Little Rock, AR to force Democrat Governor Orval Faubus to integrate public schools
May 6, 1960
President Dwight Eisenhower signs Republicans’ Civil Rights Act of 1960, overcoming 125-hour, around-the-clock filibuster by 18 Senate Democrats
May 2, 1963
Republicans condemn Democrat sheriff of Birmingham, AL for arresting over 2,000 African-American schoolchildren marching for their civil rights
September 29, 1963
Gov. George Wallace (D-AL) defies order by U.S. District Judge Frank Johnson, appointed by President Dwight Eisenhower, to integrate Tuskegee High School
June 9, 1964
Republicans condemn 14-hour filibuster against 1964 Civil Rights Act by U.S. Senator and former Ku Klux Klansman Robert Byrd (D-WV), who still serves in the Senate
“Democrats are unwavering in our support of equal opportunity for all Americans. That’s why we’ve worked to pass every one of our nation’s Civil Rights laws… On every civil rights issue, Democrats have led the fight.”
June 10, 1964
Senate Minority Leader Everett Dirksen (R-IL) criticizes Democrat filibuster against 1964 Civil Rights Act, calls on Democrats to stop opposing racial equality. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was introduced and approved by a staggering majority of Republicans in the Senate. The Act was opposed by most southern Democrat senators, several of whom were proud segregationists—one of them being Al Gore Sr. Democrat President Lyndon B. Johnson relied on Illinois Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader from Illinois, to get the Act passed.
August 4, 1965
Senate Republican Leader Everett Dirksen (R-IL) overcomes Democrat attempts to block 1965 Voting Rights Act; 94% of Senate Republicans vote for landmark civil right legislation, while 27% of Democrats oppose. Voting Rights Act of 1965, abolishing literacy tests and other measures devised by Democrats to prevent African-Americans from voting, signed into law; higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats vote in favor
February 19, 1976
President Gerald Ford formally rescinds President Franklin Roosevelt’s notorious Executive Order authorizing internment of over 120,000 Japanese-Americans during WWII
September 15, 1981
President Ronald Reagan establishes the White House Initiative on Historically Black Colleges and Universities, to increase African-American participation in federal education programs
June 29, 1982
President Ronald Reagan signs 25-year extension of 1965 Voting Rights Act
August 10, 1988
President Ronald Reagan signs Civil Liberties Act of 1988, compensating Japanese-Americans for deprivation of civil rights and property during World War II internment ordered by FDR
November 21, 1991
President George H. W. Bush signs Civil Rights Act of 1991 to strengthen federal civil rights legislation
August 20, 1996
Bill authored by U.S. Rep. Susan Molinari (R-NY) to prohibit racial discrimination in adoptions, part of Republicans’ Contract With America, becomes law
And let’s not forget the words of liberal icon Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood…
We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population….
So the next time any Democrat claims they’ve been supportive of civil rights in America (and been so all along), ask them to explain their past. “We’ve grown” is not gonna cut it, considering they continue to lie about their past to this day.
And I’m tired of the recitation that Southern Democrats became Republicans and took their racist tendencies with them. It didn’t take the Clintons (Democrats) long to play the race card against Barack Obama, did it?
Linky to my site.
Linky to the site where I got all that.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:23 pmOh, heck, stash, my linkies I just provided say just that: MLK jr was a Republican.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:24 pmStashiu – That would cause its pointy little head to assplode.
JD (2cabc2) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:25 pmIf ObamaCare was such a good idea, Obama and his bots would not have to lie so consistently and brazenly about its characteristics and projected outcomes as well as the proposals and criticisms offered by its opposition.
These are the facts and we know them to be true.
daleyrocks (718861) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:25 pm“Perhaps someone should remind him that MLK was a Republican and the ones doing the wiretapping and opposing his work were Democrats. As usual, his points are well-taken… against his own position.”
If anything, that would argue for the point being substantive, rather than a partisan stab. Or maybe not. Because party labels are what matters when it comes to things like social justice, wiretaps, civil rights, peace, and the redistribution of wealth. Party labels.
Then again, our friend Joe did volunteer for the best ex-democrat: strom thurmond.
imdw (490521) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:26 pmNo worries JH. 😉
At least when his stupidity is demonstrated so profoundly imdw usually leaves the thread. We can only hope it holds true here.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:29 pmNope. Too much to hope for. He doubles-down.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:29 pmimdw got caught in a truth! He supports the marxist-socialist-communist redistribution of wealth bull. And I bet he thinks Robin Hood robbed from the rich (subjects) and gave to the poor (subjects), too.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:30 pmimdw, fair point, but it’s the democrats who keep saying that the (R) party label = racism and a history of evil.
That’s sad, but it’s the way they work.
We should indeed cast out anyone saying people should be judged on the color of their skin. Regardless of party label, though we all know which party they are all in.
Juan (bd4b30) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:31 pmIt’s just a game to this guy, Stashiu3. His politics are clearly all bumper sticker, and I doubt he believes in much of anything deeply.
At least he isn’t in need of medication, like a couple of the other trolls.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:32 pm“Linky to my site.”
I like your use of the lincoln/douglas debates. This when we’re talking about a member of the sons of confederate veterans.
imdw (6eb217) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:32 pmParty labels only matter to imdw when it makes Republicans look bad. History has no bearing on the present. I know that if I went looking, there’s no way I would find anything imdw has said that would indicate he’s a partisan. If I did, that would mean he’s a hypocrite.
Would you like me to do some searching just in case imdw? I would do that if you asked. Just so the record was straight of course.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:33 pmSo, imdw’s mendacity continues apace.
JD (2cabc2) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:34 pmJH, since you brought up “Robin Hood,” let me lighten the mood with this golden oldie from Monty Python:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLkhx0eqK5w
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:35 pm” He supports the marxist-socialist-communist redistribution of wealth bull.”
MLK jr. did. But don’t you know, he was a republican?
Face it. there was a time when some people were republican because lincoln freed the slaves. And others were democrat because lincoln freed the slaves. It don’t quite work that way anymore. Sure hte “R” doesn’t mean racist. What makes Joe Wilson interesting is other shit he did besides get uppity with the president. Like fighting for the confederate flag and working for Strom and slamming Strom’s daughter for coming out and sharing the fact that he boned his teenage black maid.
imdw (6eb217) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:37 pmLook! Bunnies!
JD (2cabc2) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:41 pmIt must be drinking by now. Catch the language shift? This troll really is nervous about his guy.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:42 pmAnd you know, the end of the Dennis Moore video I linked is pretty much the way that good intentioned redistributionism ends up.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:44 pmimdw,
Are you also going to presume people working for Al Gore sr and Byrd are racists? Face it, a huge percentage of the folks in politics today worked for people who were racists. Particularly in the democrat party, but also sometimes in the GOP because some democrats became republicans. But it’s hard to find a truly historic racist in America who wasn’t a democrat. Including Strom, though I’m not aware of the negative impact he had that is comparable to Bull Conner or Al Gore sr.
Regardless, boning his black maid? Doesn’t sound racist to me, and you didn’t prove that serious accusation.
Slamming strom’s daughter for coming out? What’s that mean? Lesbian? Obama hates gay marriage too, right?
Supporting the battle flag? The state’s rights argument has merit, even though slavery should taint the confederacy, that’s not the meaning for many people who support historical recognition.
Juan (bd4b30) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:48 pmJuan,
He meant that she was slammed for revealing that Strom Thurmond was her father. The rest of your points are well-taken.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:56 pmMr. Wilson must have heard me, because I yelled you’re a liar! more than once at my screen. I believe his outburst had to be born of the frustration of the constant bombardment of lies coming out of the white house talking heads and the MSM. This administrations’ policies are purposely trying to sabotage our way of life and is based in complete corruption that leads to the top. Forget health care, we have to go after the corruption that Beck has uncovered. We are slated to give Acorn billions more of stimulus money for more of the criminal activity we saw today. When are you Democrats going to stand up and take back your party? You cannot seriously defend what this guy is doing can you? Obama has befriended communists, terrorists and radicals throughout his life. He admits so himself. You have to write your Congressmen and call on them to stop this madness. Your party has been overrun by criminals. Republicans started their house cleaning in 2006, and it continued through last November? When are you going to realize this and get moving? Reid and Pelosi would be a good start…
mick (4f0aec) — 9/10/2009 @ 10:57 pm“Are you also going to presume people working for Al Gore sr and Byrd are racists? ”
I put it together with other things. Like whether they’re one of the only 7 south carolina legislators to want to keep the confederate flag on the statehouse. Or are members of the sons of confederate veterans. Or think that strom’s daughter was smearing him by coming out of the closet. Yes, lots of people were racist in the past. And lots of people worked for those guys too. That’s why you can’t just focus on one thing, you got to look at how people moved on. Joe moved his way.
“Regardless, boning his black maid? Doesn’t sound racist to me, and you didn’t prove that serious accusation.”
Didn’t prove it? The daughter came out of the closet, the family admitted it all, and Joe’s response? He found the truth of this woman’s birth to be a “smear” that she should have kept secret.That’s what I mean by “coming out.”
No question what this says about Strom. But of interest here is the reaction that Joe had to it.
“Supporting the battle flag? The state’s rights argument has merit, even though slavery should taint the confederacy, that’s not the meaning for many people who support historical recognition.”
uh huh.
imdw (78153f) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:01 pmimsw just doesn’t like people from the south – cuz they’re a bunch of Wal-Mart shoppin, NASCAR watchin’, ignernt, cousin bonin’, knuckle draggin’, moon pie eatin’ fools.
daleyrocks (718861) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:04 pmAh, OK. Thanks for the 411, Stash.
imdw, you know, God Bless MLK, who died making America a MUCH better America, but he also had a lot of scandals. I won’t repeat them, but you could list many things wrong with MLK if you wanted.
What matters is the ideas and policies. Joe Wilson might have called Obama a liar because he’s black, but you can’t prove it and the fact that he only called Obama a liar when Obama was lying makes this hard for fair minded folks to believe. The case that Joe is racist is just not that powerful… a South Carolina guy supporting the Confederate Flag? Not unusual.
Obama set the civility bar on the ground when he started called dissent a bunch of bickering liars. He has written racist things in his book. He doesn’t like whites… you can read his book if you want to see just how much he dislikes them. He attended a very racist church. And he called Sarah Palin, a very atypical white woman, a liar.
That matches your argument’s structure, no? Same premises and same reasoning. But it’s not a valid argument.
Juan (bd4b30) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:04 pmI love when libturds bring up the Confederate flag. Who was the most recent POTUS who, as Governor, flew the Confederate flag over the statehouse? And for bonus points, how many times did he try to ban such as Governor?
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:06 pmSarcasm is not an argument. I don’t like to see the confederate battle flag. I am iranian and had to deal with a little bit of petty huckster racism and I get pissed off and can be paranoid about it. I would explain the argument that the flag remembers a valuable aspect of the confederate movement, but I’m just not the right person to make that argument.
The point is that many people support that movement without being racists. It’s just not proof that everything a person in that movement does, from that point on, is racist.
You’re saying that Joe Wilson condemning Obama’s lies must be racist. That’s the same as asking us to totally ignore the merit of the argument. Which just sounds too convenient, now that we’ve looked into it and know that indeed Hr 3200 had SAVE stripped out and will give free health care to illegals. Joe Wilson had a great point, but because you claim he’s racist on very thin grounds, the argument is over.
I thought you said party labels were irrelevant. Why, IMDW? Because you want to invent other labels? Why don’t we drop the labels and look at the arguments.
I think it’s OK to condemn lies.
Juan (bd4b30) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:09 pmAnd this has what to do with the hypocrisy of Obama’s people whining about how congresscritters talk to Presidents? Brother Rahm’s comment (the title of the post, friend) is either ignorant beyond belief or incredibly cynical. And Emanuel isn’t ignorant.
Your response: bunnies and shiny things. Look!
You detest having your trollish nose rubbed in the hypocrisy of your party’s leaders. Your only response is to threadjack or claim like a schoolchild that “the other kid is worse.”
Just. Another. Scared. Troll.
You were played by Obama when you voted for him. He is no Lightworker. It’s Chicago politics on a national level. And he is squandering and mishandling all the things the Left believes in. And as he does so, what I think is burning in your soul is this: HRC would have been a better President to advance the goals of the progressive Left.
And you would be right.
That is, if you have the depth to care about anything other than playing troll games.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:09 pmJoe’s response? He found the truth of this woman’s birth to be a “smear” that she should have kept secret.
Wow, kind of like the reaction of ACORN to the revelations that the organization was aiding in the establishment of an underage prostitution ring.
Apogee (e2dc9b) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:10 pmThe above, of course, is addressed to the Troll du Jour.
Eric Blair (721b15) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:10 pmJuan – You know by now the libtards throw the race card when they’ve got nothing else. She’s got nothing. Point, laugh and ignore.
daleyrocks (718861) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:13 pmI’ve mentioned this a coupled of times now, but still no reply from those that deny Obama-care will have bureaucrats deciding who lives and who dies in many cases (death panels):
The President’s denial of death panels is peculiar in light of his choice for Health Czar. Czar Emanuel not only endorses the idea, he has studied it and has prepared justifications for it.
Here is Czar Emanuel’s (and his two buddies’) article and here is a graph from that article.
If the President did not want death panels (aka: Independent Medicare Advisory Council), why choose a health adviser that so strongly supports the concept?
Pons Asinorum (b9d2cd) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:13 pmI want to put this graph here for Karl to see but you want you can click too. It’s from this page.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:15 pmAnd let’s not forget the words of liberal icon Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood…
The more I observe liberals, the more cynical and disgusted I become towards them. Even a fair number of people on the left themselves must believe theye’re deepdown ideologically corrupt and, well, foolish, or even rather stupid. After all, look at how many of them tap dance around the word “liberal.”
I think ultimately what has really turned me off of “progressives” is research that indicates they’re actually quite selfish, or certainly less generous, than people who lean right.
Moreover, has all the liberalism (or leftism) that infuses black America made it — or certainly a high percentage of predominantly black neighborhoods throughout America — a truly stable, humane, wonderful, peaceful, reassuring, enviable, sensible, successful part of society?
So if “leftys” don’t even have firm ground to stand on when it comes to their supposed compassion — their supposed humaneness — then what the hell good are they?
Mark (411533) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:15 pmI shouldn’t have bothered, but I looked at the comments Joe Wilson made about Strom Thurmond’s daughter, and they are not that big a deal.
He said it was unseemly (before it was clear if her story was accurate) to bring it up at that point.
And it makes sense. Find out if the charge is accurate, before making it. And yeah, pointing out infidelity committed half a century ago, about a dead guy, is not the nicest thing in the world to do. Especially if you don’t know if it’s true. Of course, later it was proven to be true, but Joe Wilson never really ‘slammed’ anyone. He had a very mild comment that makes sense. It’s twisted to say it’s proof of racism.
Juan (bd4b30) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:16 pmI would like to point out imdw doesn’t want to touch any of the many historical facts showing Republicans as the party of civil rights and Democrats as the party opposing said civil rights. And this historical data is extremely longitudinal.
Again, Democrats have to lie about their history and lie about their intents and use their subsidiaries, the MSM and the public education system, to further the lies just to get people to vote for them.
And my linky to the site where I got all this information? It’s a site run by a race-traitor (as I very clearly showed “Some NY Guy” on “Sadly, No!” as adamantly admitting, on my linky). So, again, who uses race and racism to further an agenda?
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:19 pmWilson apparently was not referring specifically to Strom when he said this kind of thing was a smear on memories… he generalized and was also talking about Jefferson when he explained that our nation needs people to look up to as heroes, and when the leader is not able to defend themselves, it’s just a smear to point out their infidelities.
that makes sense. The idea that we should whitewash our nation’s leaders, at least if they are unable to defend themselves because they are dead, probably would lead to more respect and whatever.
Not an argument I agree with, but it’s really stupid to say it’s proof of racism.
Juan (bd4b30) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:20 pmDaley, if you wouldn’t mind, could you switch “libtards” to “libturds” in your lexicon? I knew a family with a mentally-retarded adult child. This mentally-retarded man knew full-well he was mentally-retarded and he did his best to live with that fact and achieve as best he could.
To me, “tard” is a slang term that is an affront to all the people like him, people who do the best with what they have. “Turd,” on the other hand, is mere fertilizer, as yet unused.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:24 pmJohn Hitchcock – Again, Democrats have to lie about their history and lie about their intents and use their subsidiaries, the MSM and the public education system, to further the lies just to get people to vote for them.
Agreed, John, because the real goal is to fuck over most people for the benefit of a few, and they can’t tell anyone that because the math doesn’t work.
Despite the ‘grand plans’, the wealth never really spreads very far, and unless the recipient is part of the hierarchy, any received wealth comes with soul crushing strings attached. Democrats have never given up on slavery, they’ve just changed the sales pitch.
Apogee (e2dc9b) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:26 pmYou’re saying that Joe Wilson condemning Obama’s lies must be racist.
It’s merely a case of a “lefty” projecting his or her own race-tinged or bigot-tinged awareness of a person’s superficial characteristics onto others. That’s why I have no doubt that if most of black America were ideologically moderate to conservative, a lot of liberals — both black and white — would quickly lose their enthusiasm for playing the race card. To suspect otherwise flies in the face of what makes liberals tick.
When I see Obama, I see an ultra-liberal. I really don’t give a damn about other aspects of him, skin color or otherwise.
Moreover, if I had a choice between 9 justices on the Supreme Court who shared both the racial background and philosophy of, say, Clarence Thomas compared with 9 justices who were as leftwing and white as, say, Ted Kennedy, I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to express my preference. By contrast, I can envision a lot of “progressives” gnashing their teeth, hemming and hawing, and shouting “diversity and civil rights are overrated!!! 9 liberal judges, who also are all Caucasian, are the way to go!!”
Mark (411533) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:31 pmRahm E. is obviously exaggerating. Still, don’t heckle the president. Especially in the House. What is this, Parliment?
Fritz (0b030e) — 9/10/2009 @ 11:41 pmWho created NAACP? What were their race and gender specifics? Which political party did they belong to? How were they treated by each of the two main parties?
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/11/2009 @ 12:35 amWe could also talk about Susan B Anthony, a woman today’s Democrat party likes to trumpet as their own and proof of something they did. What is her history? And what is the history concerning her and the Democrat party?
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/11/2009 @ 12:37 amI nominate myself for Czar-Czar, to run herd on all the Czars. In a secret meeting I will give Obama my resignation prior to my acceptance, thus firing myself before getting hired – eliminating the whole “getting thrown under the bus..” thingy. Obama will realize that my value, such as it is, will be in boring everyone and showing that I am no threat – he will give me my marching orders by saying : ” Czar-Czar, Go Bore.”
Californio (2f8afb) — 9/11/2009 @ 12:50 am[Cue theme song to Green Acres…”BILL AYERS is the place for me! Left-livin’ is the life for Me! Bombing targets stretchin’ out so far and wide – keep Manhattan let me blow up Sally Ride…!]
Czar-Czar Binks?
Mike LaRoche (82fa1f) — 9/11/2009 @ 1:04 amThe only times Baracky-baby ever told the truth were times not meant for 300-million-strong consumption.
Electricity rates will necessarily sky-rocket (to a limited CA audiece).
I will redistribute your wealth (to Joe the Plumber).
(My opponents should) just shut up (to a Democrat-only audience).
Get in their faces and argue with them (to an activist group).
And the list goes on.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/11/2009 @ 1:07 am#78
Listen up, dumbshit. I am old enough that I was there.
In a figurative sense when discussing something like the Selma marches, but a very literal sense when talking about championing civil rights.
An activity that I continue to engage in today, despite your efforts to the contrary, you sniveling worm.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:06 am“I would like to point out imdw doesn’t want to touch any of the many historical facts showing Republicans as the party of civil rights and Democrats as the party opposing said civil rights. ”
Dude. There’s no denying it. I embrace that MLK, that redistributionist, was a republican. What I also recognize is that it is not party label that explains, but ideology and regional rivalry. I’m sure MLK didn’t care if you were republican or democrat, so long as you were for peace, civil rights, social justice and redistribution.
“imdw, you know, God Bless MLK, who died making America a MUCH better America, but he also had a lot of scandals. I won’t repeat them, but you could list many things wrong with MLK if you wanted.”
But you won’t list him being a confederate and fighting for the wrong things.
“You’re saying that Joe Wilson condemning Obama’s lies must be racist.”
I’m saying what makes his condemnation interesting is that the one guy that did it is the guy couldn’t get more good ole boy. The time for people of his views is up.
“I thought you said party labels were irrelevant. Why, IMDW? Because you want to invent other labels? Why don’t we drop the labels and look at the arguments.”
Well there are substantive things. Like whehter you support reform or not. Whether you support treason in defense of slavery or not. Whether you support peace and social justice like MLK or not. Whether you support unregulated wiretaps or not. If republicans want to take on those cause and democrats give them up, that is fine.
“He said it was unseemly (before it was clear if her story was accurate) to bring it up at that point.”
No he said it after.
imdw (7e1bf2) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:15 amIts mendacity continues apace. Again, note how much effort it has utilized in diverting the topic away from the actual topic, and how it simply ignores the points that directly contradict its Narrative.
JD (28f89b) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:26 amimdw is a meanspirited Socialist who hates America and takes any lie imdw agrees with as Gospel and the truth is discarded as garbage as far as imdw is concerned.
I think the ENTIRE GOP CAUCUS should have been yelling LIAR! to each and every one of Obama’s lies.
PCD (02f8c1) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:40 am“I think the ENTIRE GOP CAUCUS should have been yelling LIAR! to each and every one of Obama’s lies.”
But they weren’t. Maybe because they know they are the true party of civil rights. Instead it was a member of the sons of confederate veterans who did that.
imdw (017d51) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:47 am“I think the ENTIRE GOP CAUCUS should have been yelling LIAR! to each and every one of Obama’s lies.”
No, they should have yelled racist socialist hood rat instead dased on imdw’s position.
daleyrocks (718861) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:57 amOpps, based on Baracky’s actual positions.
daleyrocks (718861) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:57 am133, no, most of the GOP are spineless in Congress, not like the Democrats who embezzle public funds (Dan Rostenkowski), write bad checks (Ron Dellums, Barbara Boxer among the biggest offenders) or do not pay their taxes (Charlie Rangel and Tom Daschle) while they undermine and denigrate a sitting President not of their party.
PCD (02f8c1) — 9/11/2009 @ 6:23 amI put it together with other things.
This is the part and parcel of the Troll’s reason for being. No logic, no cranial capacity for reasoning, nada. It just puts stuff together with other things. Brilliant.
Dmac (a93b13) — 9/11/2009 @ 10:07 amDefine social justice, imdw
Michael Ejercito (833607) — 9/11/2009 @ 12:55 pm“I’m saying what makes his condemnation interesting is that the one guy that did it is the guy couldn’t get more good ole boy. The time for people of his views is up.”
What a carefully crafted and brilliantly argued point of view. I cannot envision genius in any greater form.
SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b) — 9/11/2009 @ 1:32 pm“Instead it was a member of the sons of confederate veterans who did that.
Comment by imdw — 9/11/2009 @ 5:47 am
Do you know this for a fact? Just because he is from South Carolina does not necessarily mean his father was a confederate veteran. Link, please.
PatAZ (9d1bb3) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:42 pmWhatever the discussion – it must devolve back to race.
They must distract from the heist.
Apogee (e2dc9b) — 9/11/2009 @ 5:45 pmimdw’s willful ignorance of history never ceases to amaze.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/11/2009 @ 7:42 pmimdw’s willful ignorance of history never ceases to amaze.
Comment by SPQR — 9/11/2009 @ 7:42 pm
… even when a big wall-o-text of it is shoved in its snout.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 9/11/2009 @ 7:53 pm[…] In a shining example of political civility, many of the same people who donned sackcloth to lament Joe Wilson’s unfortunate outburst booed Bush during the 2005 State of the Union address. Rahm Emanuel would later make the absurd claim that before Wilson’s outburst, a president had “never been treated that way before. Never.” […]
Paragons of Civility, M.I.A. for Eight Years, Suddenly Decide to Show Up! « Iles of Right (962ecf) — 9/14/2009 @ 9:07 pm