Comments on: Is ObamaCare’s problem the brand instead of the plan? http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/ Harangues that just make sense Sun, 21 Mar 2010 02:33:14 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Stop The ACLU http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-549104 Stop The ACLU Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:20:37 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-549104 <strong>Is Obama Retreating on the Public Option?...</strong> If so, it’s a pretty big victory for the people, but I don’t want to get my hopes up just to find it’s another head fake. However, it looks like an attempt at triangulation is afoot. Obama is considering detailing his health-care dem... Is Obama Retreating on the Public Option?…

If so, it’s a pretty big victory for the people, but I don’t want to get my hopes up just to find it’s another head fake. However, it looks like an attempt at triangulation is afoot.
Obama is considering detailing his health-care dem…

]]> By: Michael Ejercito http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548743 Michael Ejercito Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:15:27 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548743 <blockquote>Michael – Absolutely. Price controls are always a wonderful solution!!!!11ty!!!</blockquote> I heard that there might be side effects.

Michael – Absolutely. Price controls are always a wonderful solution!!!!11ty!!!

I heard that there might be side effects.

]]> By: MTF http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548683 MTF Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:47:07 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548683 bill-tb said (and happyfeet also mentioned), that when Clinton gave his speech, the polls did change but not for long: <i>"the bump was fleeting and din’t last … The bill never passed."</i> Nate Silver's post talks a lot about the difference in timing between the two speeches, and mentions that Clinton both gave his speech and produced his desired bill much earlier in the legislative process than Obama has done. As Nate points out, coming in now, when the Senate is worn down, might well prove to be a strategic advantage for Obama since they might be in a mood to grasp at any semi-workable solution. Today, for example, comes news that the White House has been in intensive negotiations with Olympia Snowe on a phased approach bill. Obama will give his speech, and then the "bi-partisan" bill will be introduced to great fanfare. They are so close to winning already in the Senate that this latest campaign might be enough to put them over the top. The bill they are working on (conspiring?) still federalizes the entire process, it still builds an enormous administrative mandate and bureacracy, it still removes decision making from the individual, it still hands over control of your health and welfare to the post office, but it has a fig leaf phased approach built in (to give the market "a chance to correct itself"!!), allowing the president to appear moderate and bi-partisan. This speech can succeed. President Obama can succeed, especially since he's working on an accelerated timetable. In fact, he probably <b>will</b> succeed at getting a bill. Congressional Republicans haven't been our friends to the extant they need to be, and haven't yet produced a workable coalition to fully defeat the evil monstrosity. It's only the uproar from the people so far that has been able to keep this thing from already becoming an established fact. We are in a fight for our country's future, and Obama hasn't yet backed down, and the GOP hasn't pulled their weight. Yet. Hey Boehner! Get in the fight! Hey McConnell, you're in, but you have to get others. Come on Pawlenty, Romney, Palin, and everyone else interested in the preisdency. Start cranking it up. Get in front of the people, not behind them. bill-tb said (and happyfeet also mentioned), that when Clinton gave his speech, the polls did change but not for long:

“the bump was fleeting and din’t last … The bill never passed.”

Nate Silver’s post talks a lot about the difference in timing between the two speeches, and mentions that Clinton both gave his speech and produced his desired bill much earlier in the legislative process than Obama has done. As Nate points out, coming in now, when the Senate is worn down, might well prove to be a strategic advantage for Obama since they might be in a mood to grasp at any semi-workable solution. Today, for example, comes news that the White House has been in intensive negotiations with Olympia Snowe on a phased approach bill. Obama will give his speech, and then the “bi-partisan” bill will be introduced to great fanfare. They are so close to winning already in the Senate that this latest campaign might be enough to put them over the top.

The bill they are working on (conspiring?) still federalizes the entire process, it still builds an enormous administrative mandate and bureacracy, it still removes decision making from the individual, it still hands over control of your health and welfare to the post office, but it has a fig leaf phased approach built in (to give the market “a chance to correct itself”!!), allowing the president to appear moderate and bi-partisan.

This speech can succeed. President Obama can succeed, especially since he’s working on an accelerated timetable. In fact, he probably will succeed at getting a bill. Congressional Republicans haven’t been our friends to the extant they need to be, and haven’t yet produced a workable coalition to fully defeat the evil monstrosity. It’s only the uproar from the people so far that has been able to keep this thing from already becoming an established fact. We are in a fight for our country’s future, and Obama hasn’t yet backed down, and the GOP hasn’t pulled their weight. Yet.

Hey Boehner! Get in the fight! Hey McConnell, you’re in, but you have to get others. Come on Pawlenty, Romney, Palin, and everyone else interested in the preisdency. Start cranking it up. Get in front of the people, not behind them.

]]> By: daleyrocks http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548483 daleyrocks Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:04:32 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548483 "Would it not be simpler just to impose price controls on health care to make it cheaper?" Michael - Absolutely. Price controls are always a wonderful solution!!!!11ty!!! “Would it not be simpler just to impose price controls on health care to make it cheaper?”

Michael – Absolutely. Price controls are always a wonderful solution!!!!11ty!!!

]]> By: Michael Ejercito http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548413 Michael Ejercito Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:48:29 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548413 Would it not be simpler just to impose price controls on health care to make it cheaper? Would it not be simpler just to impose price controls on health care to make it cheaper?

]]> By: Terry Gain http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548404 Terry Gain Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:44:20 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548404 Obama should have tackled heath care first, before he demonstrated to anyone paying attention that he is an irresponsible lying spendthrift. Rick Moran is a terrific signpost. I've yet to see anything written by him with which I agree. And I'm a conservative. Obama should have tackled heath care first, before he demonstrated to anyone paying attention that he is an irresponsible lying spendthrift.

Rick Moran is a terrific signpost. I’ve yet to see anything written by him with which I agree. And I’m a conservative.

]]> By: Jaded http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548317 Jaded Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:24:03 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548317 It is absolutely the brand and the brand is the government. I know people like to pretend that the country just got theirselves into an uproar over this healthcare plan but the anger has been building since the first "stimulus" last March. It grew ever louder with Bush's 700B "bailout" of banks and then grew into a crescendo with the 787B in February. This is just the first time the media and blogs as a whole have given the ANGER and DISTRUST the attention it deserves. It is absolutely the brand and the brand is the government. I know people like to pretend that the country just got theirselves into an uproar over this healthcare plan but the anger has been building since the first “stimulus” last March. It grew ever louder with Bush’s 700B “bailout” of banks and then grew into a crescendo with the 787B in February. This is just the first time the media and blogs as a whole have given the ANGER and DISTRUST the attention it deserves.

]]> By: daleyrocks http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548312 daleyrocks Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:16:32 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548312 "The problem is the general public approves of such things as “community rating” and forcing insurers to take all comers b/c the general public does not understand the costs that will create." You can point to examples of states such as New York, Massachusetts and Maine and compare insurance rates to neighboring states to get a sense of what guaranteed issue and community rating will do to prices, but of course the left wants to avoid those discussions at all costs. The new bogus health care bankruptcy studies seem to be the latest lefty talking point. If Warren Buffet filed for bankruptcy tomorrow with a $5,000 hospital bill still unpaid, he would be considered a medical bankruptcy. The methodology of this latest study is just as good as the last one. I think they were working with the people who put together the studies on Iraqi casualties for the Lancet. “The problem is the general public approves of such things as “community rating” and forcing insurers to take all comers b/c the general public does not understand the costs that will create.”

You can point to examples of states such as New York, Massachusetts and Maine and compare insurance rates to neighboring states to get a sense of what guaranteed issue and community rating will do to prices, but of course the left wants to avoid those discussions at all costs.

The new bogus health care bankruptcy studies seem to be the latest lefty talking point. If Warren Buffet filed for bankruptcy tomorrow with a $5,000 hospital bill still unpaid, he would be considered a medical bankruptcy. The methodology of this latest study is just as good as the last one. I think they were working with the people who put together the studies on Iraqi casualties for the Lancet.

]]> By: Mike K http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548310 Mike K Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:57:58 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548310 What is really funny, in a sad way, is an article by David Brooks ands another Obama supporter in the NY Times today in which Brooks recommends <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care/" rel="nofollow">a long article in the Atlantic Monthly</a> that confirms to him that US health care is broken. I really doubt he read the article, certainly not to the end. The author, a businessman whose father died in a hospital after 5 weeks of ICU care, has written an article that I almost 100% agree with. I did a long post on my blog going through it point by point. What is sad and funny is that it refutes the entire Obama approach and yet these Obamabots are recommending it. What is really funny, in a sad way, is an article by David Brooks ands another Obama supporter in the NY Times today in which Brooks recommends a long article in the Atlantic Monthly that confirms to him that US health care is broken. I really doubt he read the article, certainly not to the end. The author, a businessman whose father died in a hospital after 5 weeks of ICU care, has written an article that I almost 100% agree with. I did a long post on my blog going through it point by point. What is sad and funny is that it refutes the entire Obama approach and yet these Obamabots are recommending it.

]]> By: happyfeet http://patterico.com/2009/09/02/is-obamacare%e2%80%99s-problem-the-brand-instead-of-the-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-548305 happyfeet Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:42:07 +0000 http://patterico.com/?p=30238#comment-548305 MTF that's a good point but I still think that for that kind of gambit to be successful Barack Obama would need the committed cooperation of an almost slavish dirty socialist media - like on the level of a NPR or Newsweek or CNN or CBS or... oh. Our little country is sorta screwed, huh? MTF that’s a good point but I still think that for that kind of gambit to be successful Barack Obama would need the committed cooperation of an almost slavish dirty socialist media – like on the level of a NPR or Newsweek or CNN or CBS or… oh.

Our little country is sorta screwed, huh?

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