Patterico's Pontifications

8/4/2009

ObamaCare: The grassroots are always greener

Filed under: General — Karl @ 8:33 am

[Posted by Karl]

Democrats would like to play the victim card in response to the hostile pushback against their proposed government takeover of the US healthcare system. The word has gone out from Sen. Democratic Whip Dick Durbin to a raft of lefty blogs to discredit anti-ObamaCare critics and protesters as vicious mobs ginned up by “lobbyist-run groups” like Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks (Josh Marshall gets bonus points for going all the way with the Nazi allusion). From lefty blogs, the message goes directly to the Politico’s Glenn Thrush, Keith Olbermann and CBS News — though CBS conceded that the “turnouts also reflect the real fear over the increased taxes and government controls that are part of the health bills being considered in Congress.”

The role of established conservative groups may be more of following and facilitating the protesters. But even if such groups are becoming more involved in organizing opposition to ObamaCare, the hypocrisy here is rather staggering, given the amount of astroturf involved in trying to sell ObamaCare to an increasingly resistant public. As Michelle Malkin noted upon the launch of the lefty campaign:

On Thursday, a national “grassroots” coalition called Health Care for America Now (HCAN) will march on Capitol Hill to demand universal healthcare. The ground troops won’t have to march very far. HCAN, you see, is no heartland network. It is headquartered at 1825 K Street in Washington, DC — smack dab in the middle of Beltway lobby land.

In fact, 1825 K Street is Ground Zero for a plethora of “progressive” groups subsidized by anti-war, anti-Republican, Big Nanny special interests. Around Washington, the office complex is known as “The Other K Street.” The Washington Post noted in 2007 that “its most prominent tenants form an abbreviated who’s who of well-funded allies of the Democratic Party….Big money from unions such as the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, as well as the Internet-fueled MoveOn, has provided groups like those at 1825 K Street the wherewithal to mount huge campaigns.”

MoveOn, of course, is the recreational political vehicle of radical liberal sugar daddy George Soros. The magnate’s financial fingerprints are all over the HCAN coalition, which includes MoveOn, the action fund of the Center for American Progress (a Soros think tank), and the Campaign for America’s Future (a pro-welfare state lobbying outfit).

Indeed, HCAN includes all of the aforementioned groups, plus the AFL-CIO, ACORN and more. HCAN is conducting a joint campaign with Organizing for America (OFA), the Democratic National Committee-run vestiges of President Obama’s campaign. The astroturf has been on public display at events like Pres. Obama’s healthcare town hall meeting in Northern Virginia, where all of the live questions came from members of SEIU, HCAN, and OFA. Heading into the August recess, the White House and the Congressional Democratic Leadership are working in close coordination with outside groups, including but not limited to, HCAN, Families USA, AFSCME, SEIU, and AARP.

If there is anyone putting their own interests ahead of those they claim to represent, it is the AARP. If there is anyone who should not be whining about vocal anti-Obamacare protests, it is the muscle for money crowd at SEIU and ACORN. If there is anyone who knows about shouting down their critics, it is OFA. If there is anyone without standing to complain about activists getting in people’s faces, it is Pres. Obama.

The Community Organizer in Chief, advised by master astroturfer David Axelrod, has amassed a campaign that dwarfs the efforts of the Right. But they are currently outnumbered and out-messaged on a shoe-string budget, primarily because of the merits of the issue. And that, more than anything, is what has the Left demonizing dissent from ObamaCare.

–Karl

134 Responses to “ObamaCare: The grassroots are always greener”

  1. Soros if I recall correctly is wanted in France for insider trading. Why hasn’t he been extradited to France?

    As for the communists, they can see the writing on the wall.

    cubanbob (409ac2)

  2. They have no idea the sh-tstorm they’re unleashing by resorting to these goonish tactics – at every healthcare protest we’ve seen so far, the ACORN people are the only ones that start screaming insults and profanities across the street against the other side. As soon as the protestors start to ask the ACORN people where their funding is coming from and who’s producing all of their nicely and professionally – done signs and who’s paying them to attend, they immediately run away, screaming as they lock their car doors and speed away. The MSM can slant it all they wish, it isn’t going to work – not this time.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  3. The left voices aren’t even trying to be original in their whining these days. They really think that borrowing the Climate Change meme (!DENIERS! !BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY THE ENERGY COMPANIES!) is going to create a compelling message of change to people who, regardless of insurance companies, just want to know how the damn thing is going to be paid for when the current program will eventually run a deficit of 89 trillion dollars!

    That’s not even counting the myriad of questions concerning competition, forced coverage and payments and medical decision making.

    The shear, overweening arrogance of these people is stunning. They truly believe that, like Cap and Trade, the citizenry is just going to nod their heads and open their wallets to a massive snatch of the nation’s economy for nothing more than an ideological win.

    Yeesh, Mao had nothing on these guys.

    BJTexs (a2cb5a)

  4. Two tests for whether the protests are real or Astroturfed:

    1. In September when Congress reconvenes. If the support for Obama’s health program passes the House, Congress believes the protests were Astroturfed. If Congress removes all signs of a public option, a co-op, anything in the collective, Congress believes the protests were real.

    That being said, some of the options will probably pass to save some face: portability, etc., or basically the Republican plan.

    2. The 2010 election. If the protests are real, look for a realignment of the political stars, and Dems lose big time. If the protests are Astroturfed, the Dems continue their march to socialism.

    I’m voting for “real” based on every major poll in the last month. Obama continues to drop on major initiatives.

    While the Left had protests in 2008, one big difference is that they had a lot of press to encourage them. The Tea Party and similar protests have occurred without the press, and even in spite of the press. A test for authenticity? Yup.

    Scott (71b722)

  5. I think someone should start a petition for people to sign what will vow to abuse the holy hell out of any dirty socialist healthcare they ever happen to get their ass forced into involvement with.

    I know I sure will. It still hurts, doctor. Ow. ow. ow. Yes. Right there it hurts. But not just there also it hurts kinds more to the left. Ow. ow. ow. I think I need an MRI.

    Ok thank you mister doctor person I will see you next week!

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  6. oh. *kinda* more to the left is well it hurts.

    Hey. How come you’re not writing this down in your chart thingy?

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  7. oh. *where* it hurts. ohnoes. Mister doctor person I think I needs to get mah speller checked.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  8. Durbin, and the left radicals at groups like Think Progress, ACORN, SEIU, and the others are simply projecting when they talk about paid volunteers being sent to meetings to disrupt them or give a fase impression of public support.

    What are they worried about anyway; these folks, much like the tea-party-groups, won’t get any positive, or even objective, coverage in the MSM…

    It’s simply a classic case of projection; they fear that their own methods are being used against them; or that their paid, professional malcontents will be outnumbered by the real rank and file Americans who are afraid that 90% of the population will have to sacrifice the system that provides the best on-demand health care on Earth for a small minority of people, the majority of whom either choose not purchase it or are illegal aliens

    I hope that people show up all during the August recess and give the congressional types a piece of their mind…

    Another great post Karl

    Bob Reed (99fc1b)

  9. “hostile pushback against their proposed government takeover of the US healthcare system.” Another fear-mongering, GOP talking point lie. Nice try.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  10. Prove its a lie, DCSCA, or continue to be ridiculed for your lack of credibility as International Man of Parody.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  11. The Tea Party and similar protests have occurred without the press, and even in spite of the press. A test for authenticity? Yup.

    I think you might want to check the involvement of the Fox News propaganda network on that one Scott.

    Act like Code Pink and you deserve to be tarnished with the same reputation.

    spart (ebb300)

  12. Evidently, IMP has a sidekick.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  13. The interesting thing to me is to see how the left, when it thinks others aren’t listening, frankly says that the purpose of all this is single payer government care. They will even, in unguarded moments, say that the “public option” is the vehicle to get single payer.

    When the public protests that this is not what they want from reform, then the left complains about hostility and misrepresentation. The next election will be a You-Tube election and it will be interesting to see if the GOP is adept enough at this to make a difference.

    Mike K (addb13)

  14. spart, you are Code Pinko.
    Dogcrap is another kool-aid drinker.
    Happyfeet, lay off the “medical” marijuana.

    I guess the real test of the authenticity is if all these Democrat are voted out of office in 2010 and 2012.

    Will the Democrat party have the funds to continue to flood the Internet with sockpuppets?

    PCD (02f8c1)

  15. Are you calling Obama and the rest of the Dems that have stated that liars, International Man of Parody?

    JD (9de9ff)

  16. Karl you seem to have hit the nail right on the head, at least according to what I see on Washington Monthly.

    Mike K (addb13)

  17. Ah, but Mike K., we are assured by IMP that you are a liar.

    Sure beats a substantive comment from IMP, does it not? Not that we’ve ever seen one.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  18. I do not smoke marijuana ever. I am a Lutheran.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  19. Don’t Lutherans drop acid? I dunno, the wafers confuse me.

    BJTexs (a2cb5a)

  20. One time I felt sort of silly after doing up a stuffed bell pepper from the church cookbook but I just added a tetch of vodka to my ovaltine that night and went to bed early. Boy I’m never making that one again though.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  21. oh. This is off topic unlike my bell pepper anecdote but I wanted to Alert everybody that Mr. Scott Eric has debuted his very first debut post at feministe and it still has that new debut post smell I think. It’s about … stuff. I will have to read it again to fully grok it but already it’s my favorite post I ever read at feministe ever.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  22. oops. Fail. That last link was to the announcement of how he was going to start posting. Here is the link for the actual virginal little post for so you can jump on it, maybe smack it around a little.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  23. spart, are you saying the Fox News is that much more influential than the combined forces of NBC, including MSNBC, CBS, ABC (except for Tapper), CNN, NYTimes, Wapo, every George Soros-financed organization, the WH propaganda ministry, the Democratic party, and assorted trolls on conservative web sites?

    Fox News, you go, boy! and girls.

    Scott (71b722)

  24. NYTimes & Wapo are largely on your side when it comes to influential op eds. As for Fox, their propaganda motivates and helps mobilize the troops. Not many birthers, teabaggers or Palin groupies take much notice of the others you listed.

    spart (ebb300)

  25. Scott – I used to offer to trade the Fox audience for the combined MSM audience. No takers. Actually, nobody on the Left even will to answer the question.

    JD (138f58)

  26. Thanks for #24, fart. I now have Fuze all over my windshield.

    JD (138f58)

  27. Here is the link for the actual virginal little post for so you can jump on it, maybe smack it around a little.

    OMG! MISOGYNY AT COMICCON!!11eleventy11!!

    BJTexs (a2cb5a)

  28. JDThanks for #24. I now have Fuze all over my windshield.

    #24 was Scott, thank him. #25 is my reply and it would appear you have no answer, can’t count/read or some combination thereof.

    spart (ebb300)

  29. I would like to point out that the COCKTAIL REPUBLICANS have already given in on this issue.

    It is the slightly less educated foot soldiers who are fighting their war.

    In the middle of a brawl, you need fists of furry not pussies with argyle sweaters and “croquet manners.”

    Good for the right finally punching back with ferocity and with nary a concern over the feelings of the other party.

    We need more heat to cook this lobster.

    HeavenSent (01a566)

  30. I do think it is funny that for all the money that Soros and the unions throw at their “grassroots” support groups, their presence at almost all events is dwarfed by real grassroots efforts. It is a mirror of government. Despite all the money strewn around, they still cannot organize a thing efficiently.
    These people couldn’t get laid in a whore house with a fist full of fifties. Too funny.

    Gazzer (409de8)

  31. #14 is dead on.

    HeavenSent (01a566)

  32. NYTimes & Wapo are largely on your side when it comes to influential op eds.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA…….

    (gasp)

    BWAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    (whew)

    Good one, spart.

    BJTexs (a2cb5a)

  33. #30

    Bravo. Unfortunately the GOP is dominated by then polo set. And they would rather cross the aisle than miss out on those inside the Beltway cocktail parties.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  34. Thomas Jackson, that’s probably the best argument for Sarah Palin I’m aware of. I don’t even really like her, but she would thoroughly repudiate the Peggy Noonans of the GOP as irrelevant and out of touch. As people who just don’t speak for us.

    That’s a valuable thing, and I know it’s part of Sarah’s appeal. We don’t just want to tell Katie Couric we don’t care what she thinks… we want to tell Frum the same thing.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  35. Brooks
    Freidman
    Douthat
    Krauthammer
    Beinhart
    Broder
    Hiatt
    Kagan
    Will

    [note: fished from spam filter]

    spart (ebb300)

  36. Oops, fart was #24. I was laughing so hard the tears blurred my vision.

    JD (138f58)

  37. #25 – Still laughing

    JD (138f58)

  38. JD:

    Brooks
    Freidman
    Douthat
    Krauthammer
    Beinhart
    Broder
    Hiatt
    Kagan
    Will

    spart (ebb300)

  39. Well Done, Karl!

    AD - RtR/OS! (03e729)

  40. Fart – That list represents what, exactly?

    JD (138f58)

  41. The list?

    Wingnut tenures on the editorial/opinion pages of those left wing rags the NYT and WAPO.

    spart (ebb300)

  42. spart:


    S is for the silliness you bring to this comments section…

    P is for Patterico’s tolerance toward your newboy trolling…

    A is for the annoyance that you wish to cause, but fail…

    R is for the bitter clinging racism that you poorly hide….(that’s for you, JD)

    T is for the trollery of your so-called arguments…

    Put them all together, and that spells spart!

    Great job!

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  43. Brooks
    Freidman
    Douthat
    Krauthammer
    Beinhart
    Broder
    Hiatt
    Kagan
    Will

    The Oracle not at Delphi (99fc1b)

  44. Thank you for confirming what we already suspected, fart. Do you still wear velcro shoes?

    What fluffy said

    JD (138f58)

  45. Brooks
    Freidman
    Douthat
    Krauthammer
    Beinhart
    Broder
    Hiatt
    Kagan
    Will

    The Oracle not at Delphi (99fc1b)

  46. Douthat is a junior Brookth in training I think.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  47. Bias in media is a problem with reporters and general editors, of course.

    they choose what news to cover, which is the main problem. then they slant it with editorial commentary that belongs in an op ed.

    To claim that the New York Times is biased to the right because they have a conservative op ed writer misses the point. And yeah, it’s ridiculous and stupid, but mainly it just misses the point.

    How many times did the New York Times run a front page story slamming the US Army with news that wasn’t accurate? During Bush’s term, at least 5 times I can recall. Disgusting propaganda. How many times did they leak critical secrets for no good reason? At least 3 times I can recall.

    Being liberal in the NYT mold means hating the USA. It’s as simple as that, and a conservative Op Ed writer doesn’t fix it.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  48. Beinhart my bad, mistook his name for that moron breitbart. Apologies.

    Brooks, Freidman and Broder were consistent cheerleaders for everything GOP and that worthless loser Bush y’all elected twice. So you get to keep them, sorry.

    spart (ebb300)

  49. spart, Thomas Friedman? That’s hilarious. You really don’t have a clue do you?

    SPQR (5811e9)

  50. Juan

    NYT – Judy Miller, lest we forget.

    spart (ebb300)

  51. It is a troll that lives in a different reality, where Brooks and Frediman are conservatives.

    JD (138f58)

  52. spart, you’re going to have to do a lot better than that.

    Yes, one time the NYT helped Bush. And they themselves loathe that fact. Your argument, to people who remember how this was handled, is proof that I’m right and you’re wrong.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  53. Thomas “the next six months” Friedman, yep he’s yours.

    spart (ebb300)

  54. I love how spart bolds the ‘twice’ after Bush’s election. He’d probably win three times if he could run in 2012. One thing about Bush: he told the truth. He took his licks. He accepted that he was going to be hated and did what he thought he had to do. He was far from perfect (most of the legislation he signed that I didn’t like was stuff Obama voted for, of course), but the American People knew that when Bush said something, he meant it.

    If Bush promised Tax Cuts and to fight a war like it was critical, we were going to get that. When Obama makes those same promises, he’s a liar.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  55. The idea that the presence of a token “conservative” makes an op-ed board as a whole conservative is laughable. That Brookth make the NY Times conservative is just willful ignorance of reality.

    JD (138f58)

  56. Juan, this character is just an astroturfer. Rude out of the box. He is just being a troll.

    Heck, anyone at all who claims that the MSM is in the tank for the RNC is either deranged or goofing around.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  57. Juan: Bush… He’d probably win three times if he could run in 2012.

    You don’t believe Cheney could take him? I’m surprised.

    spart (ebb300)

  58. Notice how the trolls really really really do not want to talk about the actual topic?

    JD (138f58)

  59. Has spart ever designed a missile sheild using balloons and a chain link fence?

    Just sayin…

    BJTexs (a2cb5a)

  60. Brooks, Freidman and Broder

    Brooks is an Ivy League weenie who’s been sucking up to the left for years – and as for the others…

    BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    Jeebus, but you’re one dum sum ignant SOB.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  61. Has spart ever designed a missile sheild using balloons and a chain link fence?

    Not sure, but I think when he has a beer downstairs in the litter box he then posts statements that “he just had cocktails at the beach.”

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  62. Oh, wait, a typo there…”beyoooootch!”

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  63. People don’t like OBAMA-KERVORKIAN CARE?

    Go figure.

    HeavenSent (01a566)

  64. spart, you really do not have a single clue what you are talking about. Friedman alone is enough to ridicule you on, but Broder?

    Even Rosa Luxembourg would not confuse David Broder with a Republican.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  65. NY TIMES CONSERVATIVE?

    Oh god, how much lower can they go in creating lies.

    HeavenSent (01a566)

  66. Well, Dmac, he seems to remind of that “one with many names” troll who infested Protein Wisdom, Jules Crittenton and here.

    I shall watch and wait until I pounce.

    BJTexs (a2cb5a)

  67. Well, calling Friedman and Broder “wingnut” conservatives is among the better signs of someone who is picking up Media Matters talking points without comprehending them.

    Clueless.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  68. I’m going to Joe this comment just cause it’s on-point and I’m lazy. This steph person found this…

    #

    Comment by happyfeet on 8/4 @ 3:21 pm #

    thank you steph. I had to find a link. This Heller hoochie is adorably batty.

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius came to Philadelphia on Sunday to discuss health-care reform. She was accompanied by Pennsylvania’s own political mood ring, Sen. Arlen Specter.

    What she was treated to was relentless booing, perhaps an orchestrated grassroots effort by opponents but a dumb one at that. You do not boo the secretary of health and human services. Sebelius arrived at her position after being a successful centrist governor of Kansas. She knows far more about health care than most people.

    You do not boo Specter, either. He knows more about health care than most people, too. Indeed, every time you open your mouth, you are not listening or learning.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  69. As more evidence that this is grassroots opposition and not astroturfing of the kind Democrats routinely engage in, see the stunning reversal of the generic congressional.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  70. You have to realize that to wingnuts such as spFart and DuckCrap, anyone to the right of Karl Marx is a Conservative, Reactionary, Neanderthal.
    If they weren’t so funny, no one would tolerate them.

    AD - RtR/OS! (03e729)

  71. Did you know that Congress is exempting itself from these health care bills? Sham on them! Whatever health care changes Congress imposes or passes the bill must: 1) require both current members and past members of Congress to be subject to the provisions of the bill and 2) the current medical and health coverage for current and past members of Congress must not be available in any form!

    In this instance, whatever is good for the goose is defiantly good for the gander! Without exception this should stop their shameful actions against us! If your elected officials do not implement this into the bill…..DO NOT ELECT THEM AGAIN! KICK THEM OUT! THEIR ACTIONS ARE SHAMEFUL!!!!! PLEASE POST THIS MESSAGE ON EVERY NEWS OUTLET AND ON-LINE SERVICE YOU CAN!!!!

    Randy (5989cb)

  72. “spart, are you saying the Fox News is that much more influential than the combined forces of NBC, including MSNBC, CBS, ABC (except for Tapper), CNN, NYTimes, Wapo”

    There were “FNC Tax day tea parties.” But nothing of the sort for the other channels.

    imdw (017d51)

  73. But nothing of the sort for the other channels.

    So because a handful of FNC personalities attended Tea Parties (FNC didn’t actually organize any of them), that makes them more powerful than all the other Cable and TV news outlets combined?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  74. FNC didn’t actually organize any of them

    Likely true, as far as it goes. They merely spent an inordinate amount of time breathlessly promoting the tea parties under the guise of ‘news’ items on the gathering unrest amongst the public, that pretty much turned out to be a damp squib.

    They aren’t any more powerful than the others outside the base, but within the birther, teabagger, Palin worshiping GOP base, FN is the only accepted source of news on TV.

    spart (ebb300)

  75. Actually, spart, about half of Fox’s audience is Democrat.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  76. They want to talk about anything other than the actual topic, because when they are honest, peopke resoundingly disapprove of their dirty little socialist ideas, especially when it will not apply to the congresscritters and their union thug lackeys.

    JD (f96a20)

  77. How’d you work that one out SPQR? As a Democrat watching FN would only make sense if you wanted to make your ears bleed and your brain turn to mush.

    spart (ebb300)

  78. spart, I did not “work that one out”. Instead, I merely read demographic sampling of cable new audiences. Fox’s was more evenly balanced between Democrat and Republican than CNN or MSNBC.

    But then, you never have been too interested in reality that conflicts with your juvenile self-delusions.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  79. Point and laugh, SPQR. It is trolling multiple sites.

    JD (f96a20)

  80. I wasn’t laughing but I was chuckling.

    Does that count?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  81. Interesting send me a link and I will look at it.

    Audiences for O’Reilly’s show, The O’Reilly Factor, are 66% self-identified politically conservative and 3% liberal. Audiences for Hannity & Colmes (now hosted by Hannity alone) are 68% conservative and 7% liberal.

    On the other channels, talk shows hosted by Lou Dobbs (CNN) and Chris Matthews (MSNBC) tend to draw audiences that mirror the public ideologically.

    On MSNBC, Hardball With Chris Matthews draws an audience that is 26% liberal and 35% conservative.

    On CNN, Lou Dobbs’ audience is 18% liberal and 38% conservative. Larry King Live — a CNN program often focused on celebrity interviews — draws an audience that is 30% liberal and 33% conservative.

    spart (ebb300)

  82. Sorry, link didn’t take for some reason here it is again.

    Link

    spart (ebb300)

  83. What is the Project for Excellence in Journalism, and why do they fail so miserably at their goal?

    JD (f96a20)

  84. You don’t like the numbers?

    Let’s see the link to yours.

    spart (ebb300)

  85. Same outfit here compared the partisanship of the news networks themselves by channel rather than show, spart.

    “According to data from the Pew Research Center for the People and Press, CNN and MSNBC had more Democrats tuning in, while Fox News’ audience leaned Republican.

    Looking at party affiliation, CNN and MSNBC had nearly identical viewer demographics. Almost half of both of their audience members were Democrats – 48% for MSNBC and 45% for CNN. Independents made up about a quarter (26%) of viewers, while Republicans took up the smallest share – 22% for CNN, and only 19% for MSNBC.

    On Fox News, the trend was somewhat reversed. The largest share of its audience – 38% — were Republicans, followed by Democrats (31%) and independents (22%).”

    That means that Fox was more balanced in partisan affiliation of audience than CNN or MSNBC.

    You see, spart, what’s hilarious is how much of what you “know” that is not actually true.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  86. Liar. I asked a question, and I made no assertions. Good Allah. This infestation of dishonest mendoucheous trolls is tiresome.

    JD (f96a20)

  87. There is other survey data from Mediamark Research that supposedly shows that the number of audience that self-identifies as being other than “conservative” that watches Fox News is larger than the entire CNN audience share.

    So the bottom line remains, spart, that your beliefs about Fox News audience is not correct.

    Like so many of your beliefs, reality contradicts.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  88. What is the Project for Excellence in Journalism?

    JD (f96a20)

  89. “So because a handful of FNC personalities attended Tea Parties (FNC didn’t actually organize any of them), ”

    They called them “FNC Tax Day tea parties.” That’s not just attending or covering something. That’s self-promotion, to be sure, but its promotion of the protest. I’m sure they did no groundwork to organize. But they did PR and showed up to promote the event, themselves and their role in the event.

    “that makes them more powerful than all the other Cable and TV news outlets combined?”

    No it just makes them different.

    [note: fished from spam filter]

    imdw (fb6c4b)

  90. Those numbers if correct, are indeed very odd.

    Why would self identify Democrats watch FN?

    Fair and balanced? Bill O’Leily, Sannity, Fox & Friends, hardly.

    It’s like learning that 31% of Limbaugh listeners are Democrats.

    I can only imagine they perhaps watch it for the entertainment value?

    spart (ebb300)

  91. spart, more likely the world is not the black and white place that your simplistic mind believes.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  92. Mock and scorn

    JD (f96a20)

  93. Its typical, JD, that these trolls are so confident in their prejudices that they don’t have a clue how far from reality their myths are.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  94. Public radio did its part for Obamacare today. An AM piece stacked the deck, including the obligatory horror story of how evil our system is, with no corresponding horror story of lousy government care.

    In the afternoon, Marketplace threw softballs at an Obama flack. Or more accurately, one Obama flack threw softballs at another.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  95. Yep, but Bradley, only Fox News is biased …

    one wonders how these people feed themselves unassisted.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  96. Spart,

    Fox news gets more viewers in general because most folks know they get generally balanced story presentation and commentary on the news programs. Now the commentary shows only, like O’Reilly and Hannity, that’s different.

    But all intellectually honest folks will admit that Fox is less slanted than the rest. That’s why the far left hates them so; becuase You can’t handle the truth!

    Bob Reed (99fc1b)

  97. JD
    What is the Project for Excellence in Journalism, and why do they fail so miserably at their goal?

    It is another lefty group (surprise!) run by the Pew Research Center. It’s concerned that those darned conservative bloggers are seizing on Obama’s slipping poll numbers.

    And boy was the PRC late to reporting those slipping poll numbers!

    As late as mid-June, the PRC was still touting Obama’s popularity, long after it became obvious his popularity was melting faster than the Wicked Witch of the West.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  98. Fox News is biased.

    How many times can you miss identify a Republican in trouble as a Democrat and expect people to believe it was an innocent mistake?

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200906240026

    http://mediamatters.org/research/200610130010

    http://www.newshounds.us/2006/11/14/fox_misidentifies_lamar_alexander_as_democrat.php

    spart (ebb300)

  99. They merely spent an inordinate amount of time breathlessly promoting the tea parties under the guise of ‘news’ items on the gathering unrest amongst the public, that pretty much turned out to be a damp squib.

    I think you would find friends over at Washington Monthly. they don’t like any other points of view and I have pretty much given up trying to provide facts that don’t lean left. You would fit in well there.

    Mike K (addb13)

  100. Mock and scorn people, mock and scorn. Its entire worldview is based on a complete lack of the ability to engage in self-reflection.

    JD (f96a20)

  101. Fox news gets more viewers in general because most folks know they get generally balanced story presentation and commentary on the news programs.

    Shep Smith is the only one I can stand, especially when he takes the piss out of some of the Fox ‘stars’ like Glenn Beck, don’t like any of the Fox ‘blondes’.

    A Shep classic:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtFMj6ZiHM

    spart (ebb300)

  102. Spart:

    Compared to msnbc, abc, nbc, cbs AND THE REST fOX is far more likely to feature both sides of the story have spokesmen from both sides and not boast “being on (Obama’s side) was worth 15 points in an election.”

    Biased compared to the rest? Sort of like saying Barney Frank is a macho man and not providing anyone to compare him to.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  103. CNN used to be pretty unbiased before FN came on the scene and went full hog for the GOP. Now CNN tries to work both sides of the field but only ends up annoying both camps, while MSNBC gave up the attempt and has lately gone the other way in a full on confrontation with FN. But make no mistake, FN initiated the partisan split in cable news programming.

    spart (ebb300)

  104. Point and laugh. Mock and scorn.

    JD (f96a20)

  105. I don’t know, spart? How many times can you miss identify someone?

    Also, how often can you miss identify someone in the press or, you know, just leave off their party affiliation.

    You do know that’s a popular game in the right-wing blogosphere?

    Trolls just ain’t what they used to be. Unless, I miss taken

    Ag80 (b9af5d)

  106. More confirmation: Teabagging broadband

    The group behind all of this, Freedom Works, is an astroturfing group I’ve dealt with before on our municipal broadband issue that I write often about on Stop the Cap! It suckers ordinary citizens into advocating against their own best interests by… well, making stuff up and scaring them. They always hide their true funding backers, pretending to be a “consumer group.”

    Municipal broadband isn’t a way for local governments to supply broadband service at the speeds and pricing consumers want, it’s an ‘Obama-engineered socialist takeover of the Internet, as part of his secret campaign for stifling dissent.’ They load mostly retired folks who sit around all day listening to talk radio onto several buses and send them into various places to protest and disrupt.

    We endured this nonsense in our successful battle in North Carolina, and those asking some of these people questions quickly learned they had no idea what the specific issues were — they were given basic talking points, a bus ride, and told to chant various slogans which usually had little to do with the issues at hand.

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=25022

    spart (ebb300)

  107. Ah Ballon Juice is to information what the Kos Kiddies is to sanity.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  108. #103:

    Spart:

    You are delusional. Fox found a niche that caused it to prosper while the MSM alienated its viewers by reporting not the news but propoganda. This has been going on since the Morrow years. It got worse under Cronkite, and such disasters as the Selling of the Pentagon. It took CNN for the public to realize how distorted reality had become when filtered through the MSM. I remember 1994 election report by Peter jennings, “the American public had a tantrum.”

    No wonder the MSM ranks in terms of trust below politicians, lawyers, judges, and used car salesmen.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  109. “An AM piece stacked the deck, including the obligatory horror story of how evil our system is, with no corresponding horror story of lousy government care.”

    They should run some numbers on how people like medicare.

    imdw (c312a8)

  110. They should run some numbers as to when they expect Medicare to be deficit neutral.

    JD (2ed087)

  111. They load mostly retired folks who sit around all day listening to talk radio onto several buses and send them into various places to protest and disrupt.

    Even if true, which I doubt, how is that different than what the left has done for years? Loading college kids, homeless, welfare recipients, and senior citizens onto buses, giving them t-shirts, signs and bullhorns, telling them what to say and chant and even paying them? Or paying homeless to vote?

    It sure is interesting that the left thinks its own tactics are wrong. Maybe this means that the left admits that all of its strategies and tactics of the last 50 years were morally bankrupt – “end justifies the means” type of thinking? What do you say spart? If this alleged “astroturfing” of Obamacare is so immoral and wrong, doesn’t that mean the left is immoral and wrong since that is all it does?

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  112. Hell, here in NY ACORN – which received a huge payoff from Obama with our tax money – buses welfare queens and college kids around the state to all kinds of functions, where they physically attack people and shout down any attempt at discussion.

    So, the left uses tax dollars to physically attack, intimidate, and censor. Shouldn’t there be major criminal investigations into such behavior? What do you say Spart? Was it wrong for Obama to give millions of dollars of taxpayer money to ACORN – who does nothing but pay people to agitate for radical leftist policy? Is that not morally wrong? Anti-democratic?

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  113. I wonder how the left’s tactic will work – telling the majority of americans who are adamantly opposed to obamacare that they are evil and stupid and tools of “k-street” for opposing socialized medicine?

    Somehow, I think this idiotic tactic will backfire.

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  114. Monkeytoe – In Chicago, we stayed at a hotel that the unions are picketing, and it turns out that the people picketing do not work at the hotel and are not members of the union. They are paid to put on a show.

    JD (2ed087)

  115. Yo, Patterico!

    The Los Angeles Times’s James Rainey confesses:
    “The Times has a bad habit . . . of letting a few well-connected journalists run amok.”

    After the problems with such embarrasments as Chuck Phillips and Michael Hiltzik, Rainey decided to be honest about his paper’s own failures to be fair and accurate. Good for him.

    Oh. He was talking about the New York Times.

    That’s different.™

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  116. JD,

    Here in NY I work near a hotel that has been picketed for over a year b/c the union lost a vote to unionize the place (they claim that the hotel somehow denies the workers the right to organize, even though the workers themselves voted against it).

    there are about 3 people in front w/ signs every day. Not always the same 3 people. An article was done on them. None of the picketers work at the hotel and all are paid to do the picketing.

    The left routinely does this. they are so angry b/c it is being used against them and it is being effective.

    The most interesting thing about this to me is that the media is reporting the left’s claims ad nauseum, but have never looked into or reported the obvious use of paid protesters by the left. This alone shows that the media is part and parcel of the democratic party.

    Monkeytoe (e66874)

  117. In Dubuque, the SEIU wanted to take over a hospital and went on strike. Well, on every Democrat activist’s lawn was a sign supporting the union. No surprise that the wife of the Iowa House speaker, Terri Murphy, wife of Pat Murphy, is a union local big that works at the hospital. When the union didn’t get its way, Murphy started introducing legislation and amendments designed to punish this hospital without naming it.

    Thank God Murphy is so stupid that he’s the only one who doesn’t see what he is doing.

    The Democrats paid people to picket the hospital. Ever hear of “Rent-a-Protester”??

    PCD (02f8c1)

  118. Ah Ballon Juice is to information what the Kos Kiddies is to sanity.

    But Sport thinks that the George Soros orifice Media Nutters is also to be commended for their awesome powers of newsgathering objectivity. Goodness, time to take out the trash.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  119. SPQR

    “On Fox News, the trend was somewhat reversed. The largest share of its audience – 38% — were Republicans, followed by Democrats (31%) and independents (22%).”

    That means that Fox was more balanced in partisan affiliation of audience than CNN or MSNBC.

    You see, spart, what’s hilarious is how much of what you “know” that is not actually true. Comment by SPQR — 8/4/2009 #87

    I figured it out.

    I knew that 22% Independents number had to be suspect and given that the data comes from 2007, it strikes me that a large number of those self identified Independents are actually reliable Republican voters too embarrassed to own up to being Republicans. Simple really. Though I have to admit the 31% of self identified Democrats number is still troubling, perhaps reliable Republicans so embarrassed by the Bush maladministration that they are even willing to claim they are Democrats to avoid the stigma?

    spart (3095d8)

  120. Why does Community Organizer in-Chief get so angry when OTHER Community Organizers shout down his proposals?

    Same Community Organizer in-Chief also told his votes to get into the faces of the opposition in order to make a point.

    Same Community Organizer used “rent-a-protestors” like ACORN to make banks lend to unworthy applicants.

    … and it goes on an on. Thanks to Rush for pointing out the obvious HYPROCRISY on this new attack ad by the Kervorkian Care Lovers…

    HeavenSent (01a566)

  121. Paranoia and baseless propaganda. It was the same with the stimulus bill.

    It bears repeating that the right in this country is completely dysfunctional feeding principally on disinformation, paranoia, and anger.

    spart (3095d8)

  122. The paranoia is among Democrats who can’t accept normal dissent but have to explain it away with invented conspiracy theories.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  123. Conspiracy theories?

    FN promoting disruptions of town halls

    spart (3095d8)

  124. Just remember, SPQR, that dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

    Except when your guy is in charge.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  125. And the entire concept of a leftie calling anything that Republicans might do a conspiracy—after the ACORN business—is either sad or laughable.

    Rather than “shock and awe,” we should just look at astrotrolls like this with “mock and guffaw.”

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  126. Yes, conspiracy theories, spart. Like the one you use to explain away your false beliefs about Fox News’ audience.

    Not the reality based community, obviously.

    SPQR (5811e9)

  127. Is this an example of the kind of ‘fair & balanced’ reporting you were talking about:

    Liasson – cash for clunkers & katrina

    Nearly 2,000 people died and thousands more were injured or displaced as a result of Hurricane Katrina and the Bush administration’s incompetent response. However, “Cash for Clunkers” — the government program giving people a $4,500 voucher to trade in an old vehicle for a newer, more fuel efficient one — has been so successful that Congress is considering appropriating more money for it to continue.

    spart (3095d8)

  128. [...] press conference, the town halls in New Hampshire, Colorado, Montana, Virginia, etc., and the massive astroturf campaign put on by HCAN all failed, why should this speech [...]

    The Greenroom » Forum Archive » Pres. Obama’s historic speech to somebody (e2f069)

  129. [...] press conference, the town halls in New Hampshire, Colorado, Montana, Virginia, etc., and the massive astroturf campaign put on by HCAN all failed, why should this speech [...]

    Patterico’s Pontifications » Pres. Obama’s historic speech to somebody (e4ab32)

  130. [...] new poll commissioned by Health Care for America Now — the leftist Borg astroturfing government-controlled healthcare — delivers still more bad news for [...]

    The Greenroom » Forum Archive » ObamaCare astroturfers deliver bad news for Democrats (e2f069)

  131. [...] Patterico’s Pontifications: ObamaCare: The grassroots are always greener [...]

    ~ Caesar is Getting Ready to Say No – Will We Say It First? « Critical Political Thinking (44368e)


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