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	<title>Comments on: Obama and Independents: Cracks beneath the surface</title>
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	<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: The Grand Illusion: Barack Obama&#8217;s So-Called &#8220;Coalition&#8221; (With Apologies to Styx)</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-539142</link>
		<dc:creator>The Grand Illusion: Barack Obama&#8217;s So-Called &#8220;Coalition&#8221; (With Apologies to Styx)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-539142</guid>
		<description>[...] into the 24/7 news cycle day in and day out without cease it&#8217;s the one we call the &#8220;independent&#8221; voter.  What happened to those folks last year?  A little too much &#8220;hope and change,&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] into the 24/7 news cycle day in and day out without cease it&#8217;s the one we call the &#8220;independent&#8221; voter.  What happened to those folks last year?  A little too much &#8220;hope and change,&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Jackson</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517408</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517408</guid>
		<description>Obama&#039;s popularity ratings matter not a wit right now.  Unless the Dhimmirats suffer a major loss beyond the traditional 20 seat loss in the Congress they will not change course.  There is little chance in this as Obama plays hardball politics with the stimulus money and the GOP is beset with Petainist Republicans.  The prospects in the Senate are even worse with small prospect of any major change thanks to the bankruptcy of the Republican National Committee.

The only poll that has a strong record is Ladbrooks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s popularity ratings matter not a wit right now.  Unless the Dhimmirats suffer a major loss beyond the traditional 20 seat loss in the Congress they will not change course.  There is little chance in this as Obama plays hardball politics with the stimulus money and the GOP is beset with Petainist Republicans.  The prospects in the Senate are even worse with small prospect of any major change thanks to the bankruptcy of the Republican National Committee.</p>
<p>The only poll that has a strong record is Ladbrooks.</p>
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		<title>By: AD - RtR/OS!</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517237</link>
		<dc:creator>AD - RtR/OS!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517237</guid>
		<description>I have always just been floored by their self-professed adhearence to Libertarian ideals of self-reliance, individual liberty, creativity, and their stuningly contradictory support of Democrats who would, and do, deny them all that they supposedly support.
They complain about China&#039;s imposition of Internet controls, and then they send to Congress people like Henry Waxman (I know he&#039;s not from Silicon Valley, but I venture to say he gets a lot of financial support there) or Barbara Boxer who would impose draconian economic controls on industry and people, all in the name of saving the environement from a fate worse than death itself (hyperbole allert) - as if anyone is going to live forever (Boomers excepted, of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always just been floored by their self-professed adhearence to Libertarian ideals of self-reliance, individual liberty, creativity, and their stuningly contradictory support of Democrats who would, and do, deny them all that they supposedly support.<br />
They complain about China&#8217;s imposition of Internet controls, and then they send to Congress people like Henry Waxman (I know he&#8217;s not from Silicon Valley, but I venture to say he gets a lot of financial support there) or Barbara Boxer who would impose draconian economic controls on industry and people, all in the name of saving the environement from a fate worse than death itself (hyperbole allert) &#8211; as if anyone is going to live forever (Boomers excepted, of course).</p>
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		<title>By: Pons Asinorum</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517223</link>
		<dc:creator>Pons Asinorum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517223</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;#15 -- Comment by AD - RtR/OS! — 7/10/2009 @ 11:30 am

And, like Karl stated, Silicon Valley is a very small subset of the population, and with its’ documented monetary support of political candidates and causes, demonstrates a stunted outlook.&lt;/i&gt;

What a true statement!

I have lived in half a dozen states (MT, CA, CO, MI, MS, TX [briefly]) and consistently visit family members in half a dozen others (ND, VA, MD, DL, IL, GA). I have had business dealings all over the country and in a few foreign cities. Currently, I am in the Silicon Valley; past a decade, now. I have lived from Redwood City to San Jose, and more than a few cities in between.

In my experience in the US, I have never found a more intolerant or closed society than the Silicon Valley -- almost clannish in their beliefs.

Accurate knowledge of US History is nearly extinct -- with a handful of exceptions (usually from either veterans or strangely, immigrants) -- most are clueless about the Greatness of our Nation.

Why is it that ignorance seems to thrive in intolerant and closed societies (or is it the other way around)? 

These observations are antidotal of course, but perhaps this explains Silicon Valley&#039;s &quot;...stunted outlook&quot;; in my experience, an accurate reflection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>#15 &#8212; Comment by AD &#8211; RtR/OS! — 7/10/2009 @ 11:30 am</p>
<p>And, like Karl stated, Silicon Valley is a very small subset of the population, and with its’ documented monetary support of political candidates and causes, demonstrates a stunted outlook.</i></p>
<p>What a true statement!</p>
<p>I have lived in half a dozen states (MT, CA, CO, MI, MS, TX [briefly]) and consistently visit family members in half a dozen others (ND, VA, MD, DL, IL, GA). I have had business dealings all over the country and in a few foreign cities. Currently, I am in the Silicon Valley; past a decade, now. I have lived from Redwood City to San Jose, and more than a few cities in between.</p>
<p>In my experience in the US, I have never found a more intolerant or closed society than the Silicon Valley &#8212; almost clannish in their beliefs.</p>
<p>Accurate knowledge of US History is nearly extinct &#8212; with a handful of exceptions (usually from either veterans or strangely, immigrants) &#8212; most are clueless about the Greatness of our Nation.</p>
<p>Why is it that ignorance seems to thrive in intolerant and closed societies (or is it the other way around)? </p>
<p>These observations are antidotal of course, but perhaps this explains Silicon Valley&#8217;s &#8220;&#8230;stunted outlook&#8221;; in my experience, an accurate reflection.</p>
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		<title>By: Dmac</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517205</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517205</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Mike&#039;s comments regarding the under 30 - age demographic; most that I&#039;ve met in the business world (I&#039;m in digital advertising too, but I&#039;m based in Chicago) are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to being informed about the world at large, let alone our country&#039;s place within it. 

As for Silicon Valley, during my frequent trips there over the past decade + I&#039;ve noticed a marked demarcation from a mostly Libertarian attitude towards a Lefty one. I might also add that since they&#039;re located in CA and even closer to SF, they have next to no idea what goes on in the rest of the country (ditto for NYC). The Valley is wrapped up in their own insular world, and they don&#039;t like it when their homes in Palo Alto and Redwood City are disturbed by the rustics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Mike&#8217;s comments regarding the under 30 &#8211; age demographic; most that I&#8217;ve met in the business world (I&#8217;m in digital advertising too, but I&#8217;m based in Chicago) are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to being informed about the world at large, let alone our country&#8217;s place within it. </p>
<p>As for Silicon Valley, during my frequent trips there over the past decade + I&#8217;ve noticed a marked demarcation from a mostly Libertarian attitude towards a Lefty one. I might also add that since they&#8217;re located in CA and even closer to SF, they have next to no idea what goes on in the rest of the country (ditto for NYC). The Valley is wrapped up in their own insular world, and they don&#8217;t like it when their homes in Palo Alto and Redwood City are disturbed by the rustics.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike K</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517198</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517198</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Most of them are highly informed voters who think that both parties are wrong at least as often as they are right.

Comment by aphrael &lt;/i&gt;

Maybe I didn&#039;t put that well. There are lots of informed voters who are independent but I think they are a minority of the total. It may well be a better choice of words to call them &quot;undecided.&quot; My suggestion would be to ask independent voters a brief quiz on civics before calling them informed. I still remember this woman who called Hugh Hewitt one day before the 2006 election to tell him that she &quot;voted for the person&quot; and not by party.

He asked her permission to ask her a few questions before deciding about her status as an informed voter. He asked her who the vice-president was. She didn&#039;t know.

I keep thinking of the current generation of college graduates who don&#039;t know who was on which side in WWII or which century the Civil War was fought.

I&#039;m sorry, aphrael, I don&#039;t accept your premise about the educated under-30 voter.

Now you may say the same thing about voters in both parties and you&#039;d be right. The chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Reyes, did not know the different between Sunni and Shia and did not know which al Qeada was.

I disagree with both parties on some issues but my ideological trend to to GOP although I was disappointed by the Congress from 2000 to 2006. What we have now is a suicide squad in charge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Most of them are highly informed voters who think that both parties are wrong at least as often as they are right.</p>
<p>Comment by aphrael </i></p>
<p>Maybe I didn&#8217;t put that well. There are lots of informed voters who are independent but I think they are a minority of the total. It may well be a better choice of words to call them &#8220;undecided.&#8221; My suggestion would be to ask independent voters a brief quiz on civics before calling them informed. I still remember this woman who called Hugh Hewitt one day before the 2006 election to tell him that she &#8220;voted for the person&#8221; and not by party.</p>
<p>He asked her permission to ask her a few questions before deciding about her status as an informed voter. He asked her who the vice-president was. She didn&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>I keep thinking of the current generation of college graduates who don&#8217;t know who was on which side in WWII or which century the Civil War was fought.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, aphrael, I don&#8217;t accept your premise about the educated under-30 voter.</p>
<p>Now you may say the same thing about voters in both parties and you&#8217;d be right. The chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Reyes, did not know the different between Sunni and Shia and did not know which al Qeada was.</p>
<p>I disagree with both parties on some issues but my ideological trend to to GOP although I was disappointed by the Congress from 2000 to 2006. What we have now is a suicide squad in charge.</p>
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		<title>By: AD - RtR/OS!</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517184</link>
		<dc:creator>AD - RtR/OS!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517184</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Comment by aphrael — 7/10/2009 @ 11:37 am&lt;/i&gt;

As much as you seem to claim so, I don&#039;t think you are representative of your community of friends.
So, my apologies if I have offended you.  Just reporting what I observe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Comment by aphrael — 7/10/2009 @ 11:37 am</i></p>
<p>As much as you seem to claim so, I don&#8217;t think you are representative of your community of friends.<br />
So, my apologies if I have offended you.  Just reporting what I observe.</p>
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		<title>By: SPQR</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517183</link>
		<dc:creator>SPQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517183</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The last time I checked - and, admittedly, it’s been a while, so maybe things have changed - local television news was c**p, national broadcast television news was for people with the attention span of three-year olds, and national cable news was aimed at getting me to pay attention by rousing an emotional reaction with as little information as possible.&lt;/i&gt;

A perfect summation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The last time I checked &#8211; and, admittedly, it’s been a while, so maybe things have changed &#8211; local television news was c**p, national broadcast television news was for people with the attention span of three-year olds, and national cable news was aimed at getting me to pay attention by rousing an emotional reaction with as little information as possible.</i></p>
<p>A perfect summation.</p>
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		<title>By: Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517166</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517166</guid>
		<description>John Ziegler has a great theory on this

1/3 are GOP, 1/3 are Looney Lefts and 1/3 don&#039;t know anything, and the battle is always over the 1/3.

which means this negative rating will hit a wall, also in part due to the media protecting him</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Ziegler has a great theory on this</p>
<p>1/3 are GOP, 1/3 are Looney Lefts and 1/3 don&#8217;t know anything, and the battle is always over the 1/3.</p>
<p>which means this negative rating will hit a wall, also in part due to the media protecting him</p>
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		<title>By: aphrael</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/07/10/obama-and-independents-cracks-beneath-the-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-517165</link>
		<dc:creator>aphrael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=27164#comment-517165</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;you may want to mull over the possibility that the US is a very large place, and that young people in and around Silicon Valley make up a distinct minority of the population. And I don’t write that to denigrate the demographic, but to suggest that we all tend to project a bit&lt;/em&gt;

point taken. mea culpa.

it&#039;s very easy to assume that your milieu is representative. :) and since my milieu is one which has basically abandoned television (if we&#039;re gonna watch something, it&#039;s going to be specifically chosen and either tivod or downloaded), it&#039;s very difficult to remember that the rest of the world has not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>you may want to mull over the possibility that the US is a very large place, and that young people in and around Silicon Valley make up a distinct minority of the population. And I don’t write that to denigrate the demographic, but to suggest that we all tend to project a bit</em></p>
<p>point taken. mea culpa.</p>
<p>it&#8217;s very easy to assume that your milieu is representative. <img src='http://patterico.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  and since my milieu is one which has basically abandoned television (if we&#8217;re gonna watch something, it&#8217;s going to be specifically chosen and either tivod or downloaded), it&#8217;s very difficult to remember that the rest of the world has not.</p>
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