Patterico's Pontifications


Ace’s “special comment” on Palinistas

Filed under: General — Karl @ 11:51 am

[Cross-posted from HotAir by Karl, though some of the choicest responses are found in the Greenroom.]

Edited only slightly, so there will be some profanity:

It’s this insane idea that if you want something to happen, you will also of course agree that it will happen, and if you don’t agree it will happen, obviously you don’t want it to happen.

In other words, if you’re cheering for one side, you must of course believe that side will win, and if you suggest our side won’t win, well, gee, you must be cheering against us.

It’s insane. I wanted the Giants to win against the Eagles in the playoffs, but I predicted they’d lose, because the Eagles had their number and they were coming apart at the seams. They did lose, for the reasons I guessed (I think). That did not mean I wasn’t “on their side,” I’ve been on the Giants’ side all my life.

But there is a mentality in the nutroots that if you dare to post a poll showing Republicans down and say “we’re in trouble, we need a game-changer,” well, that means you’re secretly rooting against our side.

And if you say that Fred Thompson isn’t catching on as hoped, well, you hate Fred Thomson.

And if you do not believe that Sarah Palin has some double-secret probation plan for the presidency, you must hate her too, and you’re rooting against her, and cheering for the other side.

This is fucking insane and it must stop. I will not be bullied by this ludicrous magical thinking brigade who insists that only Nice and Positive Words must be uttered or else one is contributing one’s Evil Energy to the Wrong Side.

It’s insane.

I disagree with you. I have tried to do so pleasantly but I am tired of the imputation of bad motive simply because I am more realistic and less prone to flights of hopeful fancy than you.

If you think I’m wrong, say so. I do not mind being called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM’s interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit.

Someone can be wrong honestly, without the need of claiming he’s wrong dishonestly, wrong because he’s actively intending to subvert the cause (so he can of course get invited to these famous DC dinner parties, etc.)

Stop jumping to claim some one is not just wrong but actively malicious.

It’s insane. It’s fruit fucking loops. and it’s tiresome.

And I do think I am taking off the week. You guys only seem to want to talk about Sarah Palin and furthermore you only want to hear the same thing — she’s running, this is a great move, she’s now perfectly poised for the race, etc.

It’s nonsense. And I hardly need to blog about it, because you all seem to know the words to the song. So you don’t need me as part of the chorus. You can sing the same words well enough without me.

I am really tired of this relentless nonsense and occasional nastiness whenever someone is believed to have departed from the conservativey correct line.

To anticipate some of the responses that comments like this have already generated, for the purpose of this discussion, I really do not care what Ace wrote about Palin’s resignation, any more than I care about what Ed Morrissey wrote about it, any more than I care about the advice Jonah Goldberg was offering Palin before her announcement. I can disagree with any part or all of their opinions without irrationally jumping to the conclusion that they hate Palin, or have thrown in their lot with David Frum and Colin Powell.

Indeed, I can point out what I think are some of the flaws in Goldberg’s piece. He overstates how much Palin has been out of Alaska since the election, while understating the degree to which her profile these days has been dictated by David Letterman, Vanity Fair’s Todd Purdum, and disgruntled McCain campaign officials dragging her (and her daughters) into the spotlight. But consider some of the over-the-top reactions against Goldberg’s writing and person when the piece was linked here at HotAir (Obviously, not all of the critical comments were over-the-top, but if you read them all, you’ll find a fair number of them). To grasp how off-kilter some of the vitriol was, consider that Goldberg argued that Palin can match Romney’s ability to talk policy if she wants to, but Romney will never have Palin’s charisma. How that qualifies as heresy eludes me. The notion that Goldberg is somehow “blowing up the conservative movement” by stating his opinion also seems to impute to him influence far beyond that which he actually has (and I would say the same of Charles Krauthammer, let alone a handful of conservative bloggers).

As for her resignation, my analysis would be closer to that of Mark Halperin than Ace or Ed. But I can disagree with them on Palin’s future prospects while utterly agreeing with Ace’s comment about Palin’s most rabid supporters, who are probably doing her no favors. I suspect that some of the reasons the Left has a special loathing for Palin are the same reasons why some on the Right seem to have an absolutely blind love for her. Should she decide to run for president, the Left will likely enjoy the prospect of using her most devoted followers to highlight her most polarizing qualities.

Granted, the knee-jerk defense of Palin is also a product of the sheer volume and bile of the attacks on her from the Left. But the unfair attacks of the Left will not go away, so long as Palin remains in politics. Nor do those unfair attacks justify unfair attacks by Palin supporters against others on the Right who have supported Palin, or simply called the balls and strikes as they saw them. It is possible to be mistaken without being evil.

Finally, consider this from R. A. Mansour’s profile at Conservatives4Palin:

Make no mistake, the beating she took during the campaign was wounding. She’s not as confident as she once was. You can see it in the difference between her pre-campaign interviews and her post-campaign interviews. There’s a stuttering nervousness about her now. She’s trying to get back on her game.

That could be read more than one way. Presuming that Mansour did not intend to paint Palin as someone who can be beaten down by the likes of Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson, it suggests that Palin recognizes that she needs to raise her game to meet The Narrative likely to be built against her — should she seek a national leadership position. If so, Sarah Palin and Jonah Goldberg really are not all that far apart.


An aside: I may or may not chime in the comments at HotAir, but wanted to note the following as a bonus (given that Patterico asked me to cross-post this, despite his post on the same general topic yesterday).  My commentary was carefully constructed as an experiment.  I point out my general disagreement with Ace and Ed Morrissey on reaching any snap judgment about Palin’s future.  I specifically criticize parts of Jonah Goldberg’s article, while noting its pro-Palin aspects.  I suggest that whatever pundits and bloggers may have to say about Palin probably does not amount to a hill of beans in the real world of politics.  The only thing in the post even remotely critical of Palin is the quotation from a “featured post” at C4P.  The subject is a segment of Palin’s support, not Palin.  As such, I think it’s a handy test for measuring reading comprehension.  Or fanatacism.


342 Responses to “Ace’s “special comment” on Palinistas”

  1. Happyfeet, who was drifting into moonbatland a bit last weekend has an excellent comment on that thread:

    Sarah Palin could really do with a bit more of a tangible issue or platform so her supporters could be seen to be gravitating to something a bit more substantial than her kaleidoscopic victimhood.


    I think this is excellent advice and may even be a piece of her motivation for this high stakes gamble she has made. Her strong suit is energy policy and the environment. The first will be a big fat target as Obama’s insane energy policy leaves the country cold and dark by 2012.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  2. I wonder why no one has asked what happened to the hallowed “big tent” in the GOP? If this type of event is going to cause such internal ferment, we’re doomed. Why can’t both sides just acknowledge that while they don’t agree with differing viewpoints on the matter, they wish her well in her future endeavors?

    Dmac (f7884d)

  3. Really you read that very comprehensive profile of everything she has done, and that’s what you got from it, and you focus on the musings of a DCSA level troll.Apparently the “Narrative” has nothing to do with facts, but perceptions from people who don’t know what they’re talking about are proud of it. This is how we ended up with Obama, by the way, who was not investigated 1/100th of the level she was

    narciso (996c34)

  4. I think the ferment is due to a number of factors, though I’ll note only two. First, I think there is the 2012/16 backdrop, and it’s not unusual that supporters of a candidate will defend their own against any perceived criticism (even attributing it to support for some other candidate). That’s going to happen, even in a big tent.

    Second, to her most rabid supporters, Palin is much more than a candidate they support. I think there are overtones of populism, identity politics, etc. that factor into it. That part might be the subject of a future post.

    Karl (f02c51)

  5. There has been a battle on-going under the “Big Tent” ever since the rejuvination of “Conservatism” in the Fifties, typified by the battle between Barry Goldwater and the “Rockefeller Republicans”.
    Today, that battle splits along the fault-line demarcing Wall-Street/Country-Club Republicans v Main-Street Republicans – Sarah Palin is a Main-Street Republican in the best tradition of those who raised the AuH2O banner.

    AD - RtR/OS! (820b2e)

  6. Karl – I can disagree with any part or all of their opinions

    Well written and reasoned. It also helps to have actual consistent opinions, backed up by reason, to analyze.

    It seems that there are elements of the population that embrace confirmation bias, and the groupings do not appear to be aligned with any specific political ideology.

    What would also be interesting is whether this type of thinking is specific to the individual or if it varies depending on the issue discussed, and what percentages of the population are engaged in this type of thinking at any one point.

    What is certain is that while people are instructed in the acquisition of knowledge, there is no corresponding instruction in logical thought.

    It’s all numbers without a spreadsheet.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  7. No, we’re not talking about confirmation bias, we’re talking about actual facts that Goldberg left out of negligence, or malice. He didn’t bother to do the more rudimentary research on what she has done in the last six months; so
    what is the real value of his opinion,

    narciso (4e0dda)

  8. All this useless nattering results from a lack of direction, of not knowing what motivated Palin’s decision to step down. Without an agenda to rally around Palin herself becomes the focus of cohesion. You’re either for her or against her, and there’s no middle ground.

    Obama is taking this country in directions most of us don’t want to go, and we don’t have a leader who will stand up and say “Hell No!”

    Sarah Palin has come to symbolize the hope of most of us for that leader and we are too frightened to allow any criticism of her just now, no matter how dispassionate or justified. It’s not rational: the chips are down and it’s time to close ranks.

    When the vertical hierarchy is unstable or unpredictable, people seek horizontal stability. It’s normal human behavior. Our polarized politics just make this situation emotionally charged. Whatever Palin does, it’s going to be a matter of “get on board, or get out of the way.”

    It may not be the right way to go about opposing Obama’s agenda, but we’re looking for a strong leader and right now Sarah Palin is it. So if you have anything negative to say better to tread lightly for now. There will be time enough to point out her shortcomings down the road, but give it a week or so.

    Ropelight (bb3af5)

  9. Sarah Palin is a Main-Street Republican in the best tradition of those who raised the AuH2O banner.
    Just as a matter of avoiding confusion, there is an organization that refers to itself as the Republican Main Street Partnership (which has a couple of affiliated organizations, attached with finances and office space). This RMSP group has the likes of Senators Snowe, Collins, and before he left the GOP, Arlen Specter.
    Sarah Palin would not fit in with the Republican Main Street group.

    cboldt (397dd3)

  10. cboldt – Nor should anyone aspire to be a member of that group …

    JD (4ff1b9)

  11. Who’s bullying who? I like you [both], Ace [and Allah}, and enjoy your sites, too. I’m not going to demand that you like all the politicians I like. I’ve got my own blog and, for that matter, a mirror in my bathroom, if I only want to hear what I want to hear.

    nk (e98769)

  12. Petterico:

    I do not know what cyrstal ball Ace, Goldberg or Ed has and what campaigns they have run nor how high they rank within political machines but how valid are their insights? Based on what special data?

    They have their opinions which carry slightly more weight than happyfeet. That they aren’t as biased is obvious but the question remains why such comments? How much time did they spend investigating the many scandals and crimes of the Obama posse?

    Why didn’t they cover the USNA policies of affirmative action and quotas? Why haven’t they devoted equal time or even partial time to the backstabbing McCain staff and McCain himself or managed to run one of the worst campaigns in recent memory?

    Of course they had the best of intentions for they came to praise Palin not to bury her (so to say).

    Yeah right. Just as there are those valiant members of the party who tell us Hannity and Limbaugh are evil we see the same people telling us Palin is unqualified.

    I ask those to explain to me the qualifications of Lincoln and Adams to be president? What had they accomplished and what offices did they hold.

    The endless drumbeats that its “game over” is a joke.

    Newsweek and Times intoned this meme for Nixon after he lost the governorship of California and did the same for Reagan after he lost the primaries of 1976 and 1980.

    Ace’s preferences are known so he doth protest too much. If he doesn’t wished to lumped in with the wacxko crowd why is he doing an imitation of Charles Johnson?

    So he knows what reality is while his readership is in fantasyland. Remind me again why McCain was so popular with conservatives after he described them as xenophobes and racists for not supporting amnesty? Perhaps he thougfht he knew better than his base when after winning the nomination he told La Raza “not to worry and to trust him.”

    So Ed and Ace appear to be exhibiting that sydrome where they have seen the truth and only their opinions matter. Sounds like the same sort of craziness we have seen from Frum. Buckley and Noonan and Powell, all who will eagerly tell you they are loyal Republicans and good conservatives.

    All I can say is there is constructive criticism and there is piling on. I wonder why so many view this as piling on. Worse, it gives ammo to the mobys and trolls.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  13. I agree with Ropelight that the angst surrounding Palin is a product of the collective lack of unifying ideas on the right, right now. Without an agenda, people are coalescing around personalities, and personalities are inherently polarizing.

    That said, I think using the HotAir comments section as a litmus test is kind of goofy. They’re mainlining some pretty high-grade crazy, in there.

    BC (cefcea)

  14. All this useless nattering results from a lack of direction, of not knowing what motivated Palin’s decision to step down.
    The core substance of significant parts of the nattering is totally independent of her motivation, or her plans, or her general intention. The expressed conclusion is that she’s cooked her own goose as far as obtaining elected office. That’s as much a comment reflecting speculation and opinion of the voting public as it is of Palin. Personally, I think the expressed conclusion, “her goose is cooked,” is meant to be persuasive.

    cboldt (397dd3)

  15. Sarah Palin is going to raise soooooo much money for Republicans in State, Congressional and Senate battles that they will be licking her ass crack by the time this is all said and done. She will also make herself rich — and good for her.

    Mark it down.

    Then these same RINOs and Country Club Conservatives will come out en masse to defend her — as they should have earlier on. All the snide Ivy Consultant will swarm her b/c she will pay for Phillips Exeter and Tennis lessons.

    Mark it down.

    And with respect to the blind Palin supporters, I am not but WE are so sick and tired of the Country Club Set descending on her like Locust for being a regular person. She is a real Conservative and not many are left to defend our Principles.

    Does she have some learnin’ to do. Yes, but in comparison to Barack she is 10x more qualified and has a better compass to guide the nation.

    What other choice have we? Pawlenty, Coleman? They need testosterone injections or an implant. Both are weak and have made in MN due to the happy go lucky contrarian approach MN’s take.

    Newt? Oops. Yesterday’s news. Ryan for Wisconsin? Maybe but he reminds me of another pussy Republican.

    As much as LOATHE limo libtards, I can’t f*ing stand JCrew wearing douche bags who have been handed everything talking shat about Friedman or Rand. I just wish they would STFU and go have fun at the Vineyard or in Monterrey. Spend money, stimulate the economy.

    But frankly ripping apart a mother of 4 kids who came from obscurity to run a State and seems to have some principles — 99% of her critiques could not sniff her tampon on it bloodiest day and simply GREEN WITH ENVY at her popularity.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  16. I so remember Reagan during these lunatic outburst by Pussypublicans and Libtards.

    Reagan was a washed up, old shitty ex-actor in 75.

    But he had ballz and a real political and enthical compass which led him through the woods.

    G’Bless Sarah. She got some work to do — I just pray she does it and I hope her children and husband understand their sacrifice could really help this country.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  17. I said, after the election, that Governor Palin needed to do one thing, and one thing only, to become the frontrunner for the 2012 presidential nomination: be a good, strong governor for Alaska.

    All of the demagoguery, all of the jokes, everything, would have paled in comparison to her simply doing a good job. Oh, our friends on the left would have continued to believe the leftist meme about her, but conservatives and moderates would have seen past that.

    Then she bailed out on the job. The one thing she needed to do, she quit on.

    Stick a fork in her: she’s done.

    The realistic Dana (3e4784)

  18. I think Ace and even happyfeet are right: Palin has something to overcome.

    And she’s not perfect, but her situation wasn’t perfect.

    She was going to have to quit if she was really going to make my dreams come true and replace Obama. And for many conservatives, we would prefer someone else, someone unappealing but brilliant like gingrich, be president. We just know that’s not going to happen, so we want Palin to be nominated just because it will take ‘it’ to beat Obama.

    Anyway, much respect to those conservatives willing to discuss Palin in a critical but not bashing way. This is one of those times when blogs that are smart really rise to the top.

    Juan (189aa5)

  19. I could be wrong, but we are already seeing evidence of exactly what Ace was talking about in the first 15 comments of this thread.

    JD (4ff1b9)

  20. The bile from the Frumistas and Vichy GOP is augmented by the usual suspect mobys and trolls who can’t stand that Palin isn’t a professional politician; isn’t ready for a chuka; isn’t the offspring of some billionaire grand daddy; isn’t someone without a brain or backbone.

    That she electrifies hundreds of thousands of people and threw live into an otherwise zombie campaign cannot be accepted by the Frumistas. Nor can the Red Diaper types allow her to exist lest their lies and posturing be exposed for the lies they are.

    If she was incompetent they’d demonstrate it, but her record is sterling. So they use the methods Obama is so comfortable with and used so well on the Hildabeast. They can’t stand someone who fights back.

    Go Palin. You don’t need the Vichy types or the Frumistas. The lemmings and Obamanazis fear you.
    Go Palin!

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  21. #17, Being just a good Governor of Alaska is not enough for Palin and never would be. Which explains why no one from Alaska has been much of anything on the national scene.

    If Palin wants, she starts raising money in the Lower for 48 for other candidates and starts giving speeches for ash — she will sky rocket once again.

    All Palin needs to do is help deliver 10 Congressional Seats in 2010 and 2-3 Senate seats and she is back in it.

    All this she quit on us nonsense is really just that — hyper sensitive nonsense by folks who simply don’t like her.

    Sorry but Reagan did not throw in the towel in 76.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  22. Oh, and anyone saying ‘she’s done’ is wrong.

    Not crazy wrong… but wrong. This is a world where things change fast. She has YEARS to make herself something other than former governer. I think it’s clear she’s going to try a new contract with america style attack, where she’s a leader of a coalition of reformers who attack both the GOP and the Democrats. Palin’s got an uphill battle, of course, but Obama will also have a lot of things the voters need to forgive.

    Juan (189aa5)

  23. #19, look in mirror. So does the other side. Circular reasoning at its best.

    Again, do something important and everyone forgets her resigning. She is a lower middle class mother of 4 with 2 babies in the house who has a bunch of navel gazers running up her legal bills.

    She needs money and time to clear this nonsense out and being Gov does not provide for either.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  24. And the emotions are SO HIGH on the right. We’re seeing, with Iran and Honduras, that Obama is worse than stupid with foreign policy… he’s evil.

    We’re seeing with the economy that he’s playing for keeps to get the government in charge of EVERYTHING.

    And our big hope was that, like Carter, the voters would turn against it and we’d quickly reform. Palin was the most credible threat to his movie-star appeal, but we didn’t really consider that she’s got no ability to run from Alaska. Now, we see Palin is nowhere near as strong as we thought, and we’re really frustrated that the right is part of the criticism. If you’re thoughtful, it’s clear much of the right’s criticism is fair. But it’s hard to be thoughtful for a lot of people. it’s just a very bad situation for our country.

    Juan (189aa5)

  25. “I wonder why no one has asked what happened to the hallowed “big tent” in the GOP?”

    What if I were to tell you it’s on its way to being put back up? Bear in mind that the “big tent GOP” vision was a Bush family vision from the beginning. And also keep in mind that one person that has been quite silent throughout this time regarding Sarah is…Jeb Bush.

    Americans EAT UP a story of redemption, and eat it up more when it takes a few twists and turns.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  26. #22 is correct.

    It just bothers me to no-end to hear reactionaries (who normally have an agenda) burying her.

    “Stick a fork in Clinton” was a favorite but lo-and-behold …….

    Talent is talent and all those around it seem small in comparison.

    Stop being Ellsworth Toohey …..

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  27. Palin never could win running from Alaska.

    You need the machine to support you, or at least, to get out of the way.

    Palin needs to help raise money and get Republicans elected in the lower 48.

    That is how you build street credibility that Ivy League buffoons don’t have and never will.

    That is her ticket for ’12, ’16 or ’20 — all of which she is capable of running for given her age.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  28. A little too much psychologizing, not enough consideration of the facts involved, read that profile again and find a flaw that disqualifies
    her. We know what Obama was, but many deliberately
    ignored what his associations, stated policy positions. And Biden, seriously how could he have even be in consideration for anything, with his terrible policy judgement.

    narciso (996c34)

  29. “cboldt – Nor should anyone aspire to be a member of that group …”

    Don’t be so sure. If anything, I’d say the Republican Main Street Partnership has nothing to fear, and everything to gain, from a Sarah ’12 run. You don’t know who’ll come out of the woodwork for this.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  30. #26, yeah… it’s some kind of syndrome where people want to be the judge. How many of these experts thought Obama had a real shot a couple of years ago?

    This isn’t a good thing: but being pretty and sounding good, even with a teleprompter, trumps being a genius or even honorable. And damn, how many of you conservatives would really not show up to vote against Obama if Palin were on the ticket?

    Think of it this way: if you are Palin, and your objective is to stop Obama as fast as you can, this was the only good move to make. She is completely unable to do jack as governor, especially with the lawsuits (the 15 that she’s won so far were only the beginning). The democrats had her trapped.

    Now, she can campaign for the 2010 congress. this will make a difference. Now, she can run in 2012. She simply couldn’t without resigning. So, what do you do if you’re her? It makes perfect sense and it certainly isn’t quitting so much as moving in a much more aggressive direction.

    and like it or not, but governor of Alaska is not a position that can help our country very much. Just giving speeches around the country… that alone will have more impact.

    Juan (189aa5)

  31. Ace and Allahpundit are both working with a slight handicap–they’re both New Yorkers. They’re not only surprised that anyone could disagree with them (since they live in the Center of the Universe) they’re also a little surprised that not everybody is a New Yorker.

    If I recall correctly, both Ace and Allahpundit were strongly behind Rudy Giuliani . . . a New Yorker.

    Official Internet Data Office (db3a63)

  32. Juan I agree with you but would you vote for a McCain if he ran against Obama again. I wouldn’t. not because Obama isn’t a loon or running the country into the ground, but because McCain would do exactly the same thing abet at a slower rate just as Bush was an Obama lite.

    Palin offers a real break from the Washington insiders. This country needs a complete change from these insiders.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  33. First of all — and like it or not — politics (at least the successful kind) is as much a matter of strategy as ideology. Anyone who doesn’t realize that is living in a dream world.

    The presidential nominee I preferred for the Republican Party last year had odd undercurrents of lukewarm or cold feedback from various people I otherwise trusted, and so I had to throw in my chips.

    Also, it’s pathetic to act like a brat and say “if I don’t get my way, I’m gonna take all my marbles and go home.” Pretty much everyone will behave that way that on occasion, but that doesn’t make it any less pathetic.

    So I force myself to realize that although I dislike the MO of squishy Republican politicians, there are times when if it’s a choice between a semi-rightist and a flat-out leftist, I’ll go with the squish. So if it’s Schwarzenegger versus, say, Jerry Brown, I’ll vote for the former instead of the latter.

    BTW, I thought it was foolish when Christian conservatives rallied around Mike Huckabee last year, merely because of his religious affiliation and apparently not his squishiness (eg, his opposition to capital punishment).

    Secondly, if a lot of the electorate of a nation is as foolish and simpleminded as the people of, for example, Mexico are, all this infighting about Palin, etc, can be seen as but a quaint game of navel gazing.

    In yesterday’s elections in Mexico, a majority of its people stuck with their generations-long pattern of voting like inner-city or San-Francisco-Bay-Area Americans and gave thumbs up to their version of sloppy, corrupt-prone Democrat-Party politicians.

    Never mind the ludicrous amounts of crime, mayhem and poverty that Mexican voters have been living with for a long time. No, they couldn’t be bothered with that. So they went into the voting booth and responded in a typical “I’m-liberal-therefore-I-am” fashion. Stupid, but hardly surprisng.

    Lazy-ass liberalism is an affliction that large portions of the human populace — more so in some parts of the world than elsewhere — are guilty of, on any number of occasions. Therefore, someone like Sarah Palin could be Wonder Woman and still have to struggle just to stay even with, much less surpass, the Marion Berrys (snicker, guffaw) or Al Frankens (snicker, guffaw) of the world.

    Mark (411533)

  34. Rudy was a great candidate in many of the ways Sarah is.

    And Ace is pretty damn reasonable. He’s right that no one predicted this move by sarah, but I think he’s wrong to say that’s evidence it wasn’t brilliant.

    Can anyone really explain how Sarah was going to help win a bunch of seats in the house or run for Prez without resigning? She just plain couldn’t. Thus, this was predictable and crucial, and Ace is wrong to pretend there was an alternative other than running in 2016. Sure, for Sarah’s career, that makes more sense. But for the country…

    Juan (189aa5)

  35. Thomas Jackson,

    I was on Mccain’s legal team and I would GLADLY work for him again and vote for him again. I have been disappointed he didn’t scream from the rooftops that Palin is great, but I suspect that is something Palin wanted to demonstrate that she can fight her own fights.

    You’re right that Bush and Mccain endorse some economic policies that were really just dilluted or slower encrochments on freedom than Obama’s. But we’re talking about a substantial difference here. Obama is warp 10 loss of economic freedom and inflation and deficit.

    And worse, on foreign policy, Mccain was right most of the time and Obama is wrong most of the time. That alone is a huge reason I’d give my right arm for Mccain to be president. That is honestly not an exaggeration. I’d vote for Joe Biden over Obama. I’d be pretty happy to switch to Hillary, at this point.

    That said, Sarah Palin may (or may not) represent a change for the GOP away from these dem-light policies. that would be much better!

    Juan (189aa5)

  36. Whether Palin represents a change for the GOP you’d approve of or not is beside thepoint now. He resignation demonstrates she doesn’t have what it takes to succeed in politics. Yes things get awfully tough –especially when you’re a mother with several children. Yes there are criticisms being levelled at her that are “unfair.” But there are valid ones as well. The trouble is she can’t seem to see the difference between them — and neither can the most dedicated of her fans.

    David Ehrenstein (2550d9)

  37. “It may not be the right way to go about opposing Obama’s agenda, but we’re looking for a strong leader and right now Sarah Palin is it.”

    Maybe a few days ago she was, but not anymore.

    Speaking from the left as someone who is very dissatisfied with Obama — for reasosn quite different from yours — it’s fairly obvious that it’s not easy to mount an opposition of consequence against a polular president.

    Most people don’t follow politics all that much. They “care about the issues” but unless those issues are knocking right at their front door they’re not inclined to act. They’re perfectly pleased to have a well-turned-out gentleman with a charming wife and two delightful daughters — and not much else. But that’s the trouble with this cultrue — it’s all about “personality.”

    Obama has plenty of “Personality.” So does Sarah Palin — though obviously of a very different kind. Obama has been able to sell himself far beyond his “base.” Palin hasn’t. Had she not resigned and “woodshedded” (as the jazz musicians say) she might have been able to bone up on ways to charm those who haven’t cottoned to her.

    But she’s out of the picutre now.

    More important the policies you approve of (and the VERY different ones I approve of ) are off the table now. And I don’t see them coming back anytime soon.

    David Ehrenstein (2550d9)

  38. I suspect we are going to see her begin to build a constituency not only against the Dems, but also against the Beltway GOP.

    She is going to campaign on behalf of fiscal and socially conservative GOP candidates. She turned out huge numbers of voters to her rallies last fall.

    I don’t think she can be a credible presidential candidate by 2012. And, if Obama and the Dems do so much damage to themselves that Obama is vulnerable, a la Jimmy Carter, then several other potential GOP candidates will be able to take him down as well because it will mean that independents have moved back to the GOP.

    But, she can be viable candidate in 2016 and/or 2020, if she begins to work now on the things she does not know.

    Shipwreckedcrew (7f73f0)

  39. I would refer everyone to the following Corner post from VDH:

    Conventional wisdom suggests that short-term the Palin decision was unwise — e.g., “quitter,” unpredictable, sulking, etc. But what else are her critics really going to say? It’s not like a Letterman can trump laughing at her on late-night television as he puns that a Yankees star had sex in a dugout with her 14-year old daughter. Can Andrew Sullivan at The Atlantic’s website go beyond his slurs that she did not deliver her own child? How much more cleverly can N.Y. feminist pundits tsk-tsk her that she’s a Wasilla trailer-park retread?

    In other words, it doesn’t matter that much what critics say, but — should she pursue politics — only what she does with her newfound time, especially if she travels widely, studies foreign policy, and helps galvanize the party base.

    In the long run, she can lecture, earn a good income through speaking, develop a coterie of advisers and supporters, take care of her family, not have the constant political warring on all flanks, and invest time in reflecting and studying issues, visit the country, meet leaders, etc. She’s not looking at 2012; but in eight years by 2016 she will be far more savvy, still young, and far more experienced. It matters not all that the Left writes her off as daffy, since they were going to do that whatever she did; the key is whether she convinces conservatives in eight years of travel and reflection that she’s a charismatic Margaret Thatcher-type heavyweight.

    Shipwreckedcrew (7f73f0)

  40. I think Palin as POTUS is done. But, if the folks in Alaska can forgive her, she may yet be a powerful force in the Senate.

    I wondered how I would have felt in November, 1964 following the drubbing Goldwater and conservative ideas received. I know I would never have dreamed that a Ronald Reagan would become dominant. 2009 is 1965 redux.

    At least as of August, the drive-by media won’t have Sarah Palin to kick around anymore.

    Ed from SFV (dde255)

  41. Ultimately this stuff is like taste in food, or taste in women. Some people love their steaks rare, others well done. Some people think that Jessica Alba is the epitome of hot, others Elle Macpherson. Some think Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer ever, others Bobby Jones. Some think that the University of Illinois is the greatest institution of higher learning in the world, others are idiots.

    JD (4ff1b9)

  42. No, that misunderstands what the purpose of a US Senator, is to get pork for their constituents, that’s what a Murkowski, a Stevens, excelled at. That would be a job against her character.
    Honestly, people have no understanding of what they are talking about.

    narciso (4e0dda)

  43. Comment by cboldt — 7/6/2009 @ 12:58 pm

    Talk about flying under a false flag – this group is the poster child.
    None of those named would ever be caught dead on “Main Street”.

    AD - RtR/OS! (820b2e)

  44. Hell, AD, most of them would have a hard time passing themselves off as Republicans.

    JD (4ff1b9)

  45. A lot of Palin supporters are upset. They are emotional. So when Ed and Ace said what they did not want to particularly hear, they lashed out. Did you see the lash out against Jonah Goldberg before she gave her speech? I thought Jonah’s advice was spot on.

    Does anyone remember how crazy Hugh Hewitt was acting about Mitt Romeny? Michelle Malkin’s warning counts double for Palin supporters.

    Take a deep breath. Chill out. I doubt Sarah Palin’s career is over and that will depend on what her plans and actions are next. If it is to support candidates she likes and reflects her views (which reflect a lot of the conservative base), that might win her a lot of friends if they are successful. That is building alliances and grass roots support.

    Joe (a32cff)

  46. Comment by Ed from SFV — 7/6/2009 @ 2:38 pm

    If you were in front of a TV when, in the closing days of the 64 campaign, he made “The Speech”, you just knew that this man would run for office, and win! All of the Goldwater troops knew RR was the one to run for Gov in CA against Pat Brown, and that it was only a matter of time until he publicly announced the quest. 65 & 66 was an exciting time to be an energetic Republican in CA.

    AD - RtR/OS! (820b2e)

  47. It’s clear JD that Bobby Jones was the greatest golfer in the universe.

    would you vote for a McCain if he ran against Obama again.

    I would vote for a stuffed animal running against Obama. For once, nothing is better than something.

    We will have to see what Sarah does the rest of this year but I can guarantee you, if she helps elect a Republican majority in Congress next year, she will have a very strong claim to anything she wants. She should be able to raise tons. I was going to go to the NRA convention in May and she was to be at a dinner on Friday. It was sold out in a day or two.

    Remember, to the Democrats, Ronald Reagan was “an amiable dunce” and, in spite of revisionism today, that was the opinion until he died.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  48. I ‘m not a huge Palin supporter, but hated the way she and her family were treated by the press,McCains staff and the GOP elected officials.I can’t understand why everyone is so quick to write her off.She is only 45.There is a long time for her to mature and grow.Why is the instant judgment needed?

    mymy (3ceaae)

  49. Did you note that Sarah Palin said would support those candidates from either party or no party at all? Interesting.

    Also, Palin critics should chill as much as Palin supporters. Give the lady some time to respond.

    Joe (a32cff)

  50. JD–How about Jessica Alba and Elle Macpherson together? Why not have cake and pie?

    Joe (a32cff)

  51. Karl: I think “nutroots” is a pejorative more commonly applied to folks on my side of the aisle, not Republicans and conservatives.

    Just a clarification.

    OK, carry on with your intraparty squabble. I’m enjoying all of it.

    Myron (a5d1ef)

  52. Karl: Sorry. I realize that the “nutroots” part was written by someone else.

    Myron (a5d1ef)

  53. Actually, Mike K., Reagan’s greatest asset was his amiability. Democrats who ha d no interest in hsi policies, and in fact voted against them, found him personally impossibloe to dislike. That means a lot in politics. Reagan made far more firends than he ever did enemies — and in all the right places. Palin, it appears, has a hard time treating ehr friends well, much less makign new ones among those less inclined to agree with her beliefs.

    David Ehrenstein (2550d9)

  54. Myron – Wow! Are you actually trying to read something before commenting? I’m impressed.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  55. Dear Karl

    I agree with your assessment that many of her followers are of the identity type

    So am I.

    Identity politics is normal and has different levels of degrees

    People liked Obama because he was good looking and black. not everyone but many thats a destructive form of identity politics.

    I identify with Sarah Palin because of different reasons:

    She is a working mother

    She is a strong unashamed christian leader

    She is a decisive decision maker

    She takes her own counsel

    She leads by example

    Yes I could have read pages and pages and pages of past decisions and opinions and stands of Sarah Palin

    But America is different to me than Alaska, or
    Wasilla, with a family myself, I feel a well grounded mature successful executive mom has all the qualifications to lead my daughters for eight years.

    Yeah I refuse to be marginalized by bloggers who really didn’t know why she quit and where she’s going next.

    Ace, Ed et al are going to have to handle the fallout of their own actions.

    Clearly a blog post is a product and the crowd overwhelmingly rejected their product offering and now the “whats the matter with you” card is being played.

    Time for them to reevaluate their own actions not or reactions to their own doing as if we are hypresensitive simpletons easily angered

    EricPWJohnson (a7d970)

  56. This is what I wrote about Governor Palin in the aftermath of the November elections in a Patterico thread (authored by DRJ) about Palin’s first meeting with Obama as POTUS with other Governors at a National Governors Association dinner:

    As much as I love Gov. Palin and her authentic fiscal and social conservatism, the reality is that in politics, perception is reality. Unless she does something unexpectedly drastic in the next few years to turn around her image that inoculates her from frivolous yet vicious attacks based on things that really don’t matter (expense of wardrobe, Troopergate Tasergate, the turkey incident) I’m afraid her moment has passed.

    For this, I blame John McCain. She was the right person, but it was too soon to put her on the big stage. IMHO, Sarah Palin is the political equivalent of David Clyde. For those of you who know nothing about baseball trivia (or do, but don’t go back to the early seventies), that means someone with unlimited potential for greatness was pushed too far too fast because s/he excited the fan base, and what should have been a slow, steady road to superstardom became a crash course with disastrous results. Read more about David Clyde here.

    If Palin proves her mettle in her remaining years in Alaska, and displays understanding of international issues the way she does when it comes to energy and her own state’s challenges, the best I can see her doing is the VP slot once again. The question is, is she willing to settle for that? Bobby Jindal, if he keeps up his good work in Louisiana (and can — unlike other Pubbies in LA — keep his thang from wandering), ought to be the presumptive front-runner.


    Comment by L.N. Smithee — 12/2/2008 @ 2:26 pm

    In a subsequent websearch, I was surprised to discover that I was not the first person online to make the Palin/Clyde analogy; it appears the first was someone posting in October 2008 at Think Progress, the slimy house organ of former Clinton Chief of Staff John Podesta’s Center for American Progress (Think Progress’ address bar icon reads “TP” — fittingly).

    Upon further review, it appears that with this past weekend’s events, Palin’s and Clyde’s path to superstardom took the same U-turn. From the article “The Mismanaged Career of David Clyde” in the New York Times, June 22, 2003 (bold mine):

    ”I’d have to say that David Clyde was one of the best young left-handed pitchers I’ve ever seen,” [World Series-winning manager Whitey] Herzog said. ”He was really mishandled […] He never had the advantage of going to the minors and pitching against kids his own age. And he was really a good kid himself. It was a tragedy.”


    Clyde was 3-9 [in 1974] with a 4.38 E.R.A. In 1975, before Frank Lucchesi replaced Martin in July, Clyde was 0-1 before finally going to the minors. In 1976 his arm troubles began. Traded to the Cleveland Indians in 1978, he was 8-11 and then 3-4 before he damaged a rotator cuff.

    Signed by his hometown Astros in 1981, Clyde was pitching in the fall instructional league when he decided to walk away from baseball. ”I thought: ‘What am I doing here? This is not what I wanted to do,’ ” he recalled. ”I made a decision to get on with my real life.”

    The McCain selection made Palin the focus of the world and the target of venal leftists in Alaska hoping to get in good with the President’s enforcers. If Sarah indeed had ambitions of raising her profile in the lower 48, she should have taken a more Reaganesque path, i.e., overcoming doubters who thought your only strength is your charisma, and leaving behind a shining example of what you had done as a leader. I had been saying a lot lately that Obamanoids who begged for Palin to face Obama in 2012 ought to be careful what they wished for, since Alaska in Palin’s four years would probably be in better shape than the entire country overall after four years of Obama. I can’t say that anymore now that she’s resigning.

    What continues to frustrate me is the way that the cowards in the shadows who snipe at Palin under promise of anonymity never seem to fill in the really important gap in their stories: “If she’s really as awful as you say she is, how did YOU blow it so badly by selecting her?” It seems like the dirt is supplied to the Obamabot haters on the additional condition that the murmurers be absolved from blame for their big mistake.

    L.N. Smithee (bf2ab8)

  57. Sure glad there are pundits. You know, the people who did not anticipate her actions, nevertheless, know why she did it and the consequences that she will have to face for such a choice. It never ceases to amaze me how we think we know how people should act and what they should be doing irregardless of the fact that they have accomplished considerable more in their life than we arm chair quarterbacks and lo and behold they did it without our initial wisdom and input. The audacity! Maybe if we convince enough arm chair pundits to think the same way she will hear the chorus of our wisdom, and listen to us, and finally be successful. Sorry boys and girls, but, we really have become an arrogant lot.

    Greg (5b8d0c)

  58. What’s interesting is how so many people claim to be conservatives and then generalize all Palin supporters. Such as the guy above saying they are ’emotional’. what’s that about? No one is going to win the GOP nomination without significant support from the plurality of GOP voters that have, at some point, supported Palin.

    So what if she’s not perfect?

    It shouldn’t be too funny to the left that the right is settling these matters now instead of in their primary. It’s to the right’s huge advantage that Palin did this now. We will know who has staying power in the next few months. We won’t have the last minute Mccain ‘last resort’ crap we had last round.

    Intraparty fights are really bad late and really good early. But anyone claiming they can generalize either Palin support or criticism is not a serious commenter.

    Juan (189aa5)

  59. Michelle Obama says it works for post birth depression! And it makes a delicious pate too.

    Joe (a32cff)

  60. HeavenSent & Juan, @ 21 & 22: If you believe that Governor Palin wants to run for the toughest executive job in the world, how do you square that with being unable, or being seen as unable, to handle the important, but nevertheless far easier job of governor?

    In recent history, governors were the ones who were able to defeat sitting presidents, because governors build records on which they can run: I did this, I led that. Legislators have far fewer opportunities to do that.

    But Governor Palin has just thrown away the biggest trump card she could have: a successful record as governor. That “her situation wasn’t perfect” hardly impresses me as a good argument: presidents have to overcome imperfect situations.

    I’d have liked to see her do better myself, though I wasn’t a convinced “Palinista.” But, whatever her reasons, she has just failed at being a governor. She might be a great draw on the rubber chicken circuit, but she’s done as a possible presidential candidate.

    The disappointed Dana (474dfc)

  61. whatever her reasons, she has just failed at being a governor

    I would suggest you do some reading about what she has accomplished before you say that. The pipeline deal, her major ambition, was signed and delivered. The prospect for the next 18 months was fighting phony ethics complaints intended to tie her down in Alaska and keep her from establishing a national presence.

    I’m not saying I agree with what she did but there are reasons. I still don’t know her plans but a big program of helping elect a GOP Congress next year will be far more important for her future. You have to understand that, with the election of Obama, the old rules that required accomplishment were thrown out.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  62. If you believe that Governor Palin wants to run for the toughest executive job in the world, how do you square that with being unable, or being seen as unable, to handle the important, but nevertheless far easier job of governor?

    I find this really strange in logical structure.

    Of course Palin wants to run for president whether she can or will. That doesn’t need to ‘square’ with anything. She just needs to beat the other contenders. Who are they? Romney? Jindal? Obama? What’s Romney doing? Less than Palin is. Obama was a complete loser all his life.

    Can she today? Of course not… that’s why she quit today, when she doesn’t have to. She has to run in a couple of years, when this will be completely obscured by whatever it is she’s planning.

    Obama dropped out of Columbia and was unable to be drug free. but that was overwhelmed by a speech in 2004. no surprise, that’s how the world works.

    Now, the truth is, it’s 100% completely impossible to be governor of Alaska and run for president at the same time. it’s also nearly impossible to govern alaska and be constantly sued. it’s also nearly impossible to be am other and ignore repeated slurs against your kids.

    In fact, I suspect it’s a lot easier to be President and deal with all the lawsuits and family harassment than it is to be a relatively poor governor. Governor + running for president = not even possible and much harder than merely being president.

    To sell this to the people, Palin is going to have to show that she took on a huge job. that she didn’t quit at all, but changed directions. To do that, she will need to campaign all over the country and give a bunch of speeches. Once she’s done that, she can say ‘they sued me and made it impossible for Alaska to have a governor, but I took on this greater task’.

    I’m not saying the ‘quitter’ thing is something to overcome. I’m just saying that, in a couple of years of Palin fighting, it won’t look like she quit… it will look like she started.

    One thing is clear: Palin gave up power in a way that no one really thinks is going to harm Alaskans… all her major reforms occurred in 2008 and the next guy in line is going to be fine. She gave up a nearly impossible job that did little for a possible job that will do a lot.

    Juan (189aa5)

  63. Rather, I’m AM saying the ‘quitter’ thing is something to overcome. But since she isn’t running for president today, when she can’t win because of this quitting, she can run tomorrow, when that story will be obscured by whatever comes between now and then.

    It’s playing the long game at the expense of the short game. Palin knew she would lose the battle of today.

    Juan (189aa5)

  64. Mr K: She failed at being governor when she left the job early, period. She asked the people of Alaska for the most important job in the state, for a four year term, they gave it to her, and she quit. Other than something like having come down with cancer — which people would both understand and forgive, but which would cause its own set of problems for a future presidential candidate — most people aren’t going to look at her reasons, they’re just going to see that when the going got tough, the tough got going — going the wrong way.

    Have Americans ever admired a quitter? Like it or not, that’s exactly how she’ll be portrayed.

    The honest Dana (474dfc)

  65. I think Sarah Palin represents something important in the evolution of American politics. Many modern American Presidents have come from political dynasties or the leading academic institutions of the time — America’s version of the British monarchy and class system. And although they lionize Presidents like Abraham Lincoln and admire Harry Truman, few liberals would actually support a candidate with the modern-day equivalent of Lincoln’s background or Truman’s education. In Palin, everyday Americans instinctively grasp she is the commoner who can compete in a liberal monarchy, and unlike liberal elites most Americans don’t care much for monarchies.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  66. Mr K: She failed at being governor when she left the job early, period.

    Opinions are like bellybuttons. Everybody has one. That’s yours.

    Mine is something else. The arrow of time means that one of us is right and we will find out eventually.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  67. Sorry for my ridiculous diction.

    whatever her reasons, she has just failed at being a governor

    this kind of trolling is really going to separate those who are serious and those who are not. Palin is not just a Governor. She is, like it or not, by far the true leader of the GOP and her family. She cannot do it all and would be an idiot to try. She, by quitting, has succeeded in governing Alaska. Yeah, we’ve always been at war with Eurasia.

    But does Dana really think Alaska will not be better governed now that their next governor won’t be sued frivolously over and over? That their staff will spend their time on Alaska instead of dealing with democrat party lawsuits over and over and over?

    Palin had a lot of reforms… they already took place. She has filled the vacuum of leadership on the right… not entirely of her own doing but because no one else stood up.

    Sure, she is quitting her job. She will have to overcome that. But Alaska is better off, she is better off, her family is much better off, and she can now actually run for president and run around helping people run for congress. That’s not really quitting in the overall sense.

    Juan (189aa5)

  68. but is it the rise of the citizen politician or the fall of a noxious and really sorta gay political class what is evolving… or both?

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  69. Good question. Hopefully both.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  70. Juan wrote:

    this kind of trolling is really going to separate those who are serious and those who are not. Palin is not just a Governor. She is, like it or not, by far the true leader of the GOP and her family. She cannot do it all and would be an idiot to try. She, by quitting, has succeeded in governing Alaska.

    One thing to note is that we pretty much expect that our presidents can do it all! The expectation is unfair, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t there.

    More, Mrs Palin was “sold” to us as someone who could do it all. She could help run a business, she could run against and defeat entrenched male candidates, she could govern our largest state, and she could rear five children, including one who is handicapped. She was the true feminist, the one who could do it all, do it on her own, not ask for special help or favors, the one who did what she had to do without complaining. And now she can’t. The very things on which her candidacy was sold have been shown wanting.

    The brutally honest Dana (474dfc)

  71. happyfeet, I think it’s absolutely kinda silly that the citizen political class is arising. It’s really a crafted myth.

    Personally, I think Palin is not impressive. She hasn’t written anything that has changed anything.

    But I just can’t ignore that she has this one quality that we need if we’re to beat Obama. I think it is easier to get Palin to speak with depth and write with depth than it is to make Romney and Gingrich appealing.

    It’s a huge comprimise, but I don’t even know I’ll vote for Palin in the primary. I just recognize that this ‘failed at being governor’ stuff just isn’t true.

    The better than everyone else Juan (189aa5)

  72. Dana, you know, either you get it or you don’t.

    Palin is taking on more, not less. You reject that analysis, but it’s still the case. You can call yourself honest and bestow yourself with whatever honorary you wish to have, but really, at the end of the day, Palin just took on the weight of a nation and stopped governing a small state that was ungovernable while being sues all the time.

    Saying ‘OH OH OH, she can’t take it!!!! LOL SHE QUIT!!!!’ is ignoring most of the facts. Fact is, she already enacted all her reforms. She already set in place all the major deals. And it’s not her who is failing Alaska. It’s the democrat party that is insisting on funding all these lawsuits Palin keeps winning. Alaska spends millions of dollars and Palin’s staff spends almost all their time dealing with this stuff. Why? Palin can’t run for president as governor anyway. She will have to resign at some point.

    She loses the battle of today. She would not win an election today. And the election isn’t today. By taking on a larger responsibility and giving up a mess she didn’t create and couldn’t fix except to do exactly what she did, she isn’t a quitter except in the most limited sense.

    The better than everyone else Juan (189aa5)

  73. TBH Dana – The very things on which her candidacy was sold have been shown wanting.

    The same thing could be said about our current President.

    I don’t see anyone commenting that Obama is ‘done’.

    Two words for anyone who thinks that Palin is incompetent:

    Joe Biden.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  74. Simply put:

    Is Palin quitting her job good for Alaska? Without question. the democratic party made it impossible for Palin to do her job. Palin isn’t magically able to fix that and it’s not her fault.

    Is Palin quitting her job a problem she needs to overcome to win respect, elections, etc? Absolutely.

    Is Palin done? Only if all elections are taking place today.

    sorry, but people saying she’s ‘done’ are so extremely unreasonable that I find it amusing they are bestowing themselves with honoraries like ‘honest!’. Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, were all ‘done’ long before the news cycle became so short. Palin may not succeed in overcoming her problems, but she’s done a service for Alaska, her family, and her party, by trying this.

    I just hope that, along the way, she shows depth that I haven’t seen from her.

    The better than everyone else Juan (189aa5)

  75. “Mr K: She failed at being governor when she left the job early, period.”

    Is the same true of Sebelius and Napolitano? What about Hillary and her Senate seat or Rahmbo and his Congressional seat. The line of reasoning is specious given that we know nothing of her next step.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  76. #35

    “Thomas Jackson,

    I was on Mccain’s legal team and I would GLADLY work for him again and vote for him again. I have been disappointed he didn’t scream from the rooftops that Palin is great, but I suspect that is something Palin wanted to demonstrate that she can fight her own fights.”

    Juan, if you are the same guy who has been posting for the past year under that name, I believe you have outed yourself as a delusional liar.

    McCain’s legal advisers were the following persons set out in a press release:

    For Immediate Release Contact: Press Office
    Tuesday, May 6, 2008 703-650-5550
    ARLINGTON, VA — Today, U.S. Senator John McCain announced his Justice Advisory Committee to the
    Campaign. Please find below the Chairs and members of the Committee:
    Chairs Of The Justice Advisory Committee:
    • Theodore B. Olson — former Solicitor General of the United States
    • Senator Sam Brownback — United States Senator, Kansas
    Steering Committee
    • Michael Abramowicz — Professor of Law, George Washington University Law School
    • Hon. William P. Barr — former Attorney General of the United States
    • Gerard V. Bradley — Professor of Law, Notre Dame Law School
    • Rachel Brand — former Assistant Attorney General for Office of Legal Policy
    • Steven Calabresi — George C. Dix Professor of Law, Northwestern University School of Law
    • Dean Ronald A. Cass — Chairman, Center for the Rule of Law; Dean Emeritus, Boston University
    School of Law
    • Senator Daniel Coats — former United States Senator, Indiana
    • Manus M. Cooney — former Chief Counsel and Staff Director, U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary
    • Charles J. Cooper — former Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel
    • Arthur B. Culvahouse, Jr. — former White House Counsel to President Ronald Reagan
    • Carol E. Dinkins — Partner, Vinson & Elkins
    • John F. Duffy — Oswald Symister Colclough Research Professor of Law, George Washington
    University Law School
    • Miguel A. Estrada — former Assistant to the Solicitor General of the United States
    • Charles Fried — Beneficial Profes sor of Law, Harvard Law School; former Solicitor General of the United States
    • Sandra S. Froman — Arizona attorney
    • Richard W. Garnett — Professor of Law, Notre Dame Law School
    • Robert P. George — McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence, Princeton University
    • Senator Lindsey Graham — United States Senator, South Carolina
    • Senator Phil Gramm — former United States Senator, Texas
    • Governor Frank Keating — former Governor of Oklahoma
    • Orin S. Kerr — Professor, George Washington Universit y Law School
    • Senator Jon Kyl — United States Senator, Arizona
    • Christopher Landau — Partner, Kirkland & Ellis LLP
    • Senator Trent Lott — former United States Senator, Mississippi
    • Randy Mastro — former Deputy Mayor of New York City
    • John O. McGinnis — Professor of Law, Northwestern University School of Law
    • Maureen E. Mahoney — former Deputy Solicitor General of the Unites States
    • Thomas W. Merrill — Charles Keller Beekman Professor, Columbia Law School
    • Marc L. Mukasey — Partner, Bracewell & Giuliani LLP ; former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York
    • Caleb Nelson — Professor of Law, University of Virginia School of Law
    • Eileen J. O’Connor — former Assistant Attorney General, Tax Division, U.S. Department of Justice
    • Hon. Thomas R. Phillips — former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Texas
    • Edward R. Reines — Partner, Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP
    • Kristi L. Remington — former Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Office of Legal Policy
    • Professor Daniel B. Rodriguez — Minerva House Drysdale Regents Chair in Law, The University of
    Texas at Austin Scho ol of Law
    • Nicholas Quinn Rosenkranz — Associate Professor of Law, Georgetown University Law Center
    • Ronald D. Rotunda — University Professor and Professor of Law, George Mason University
    • Cathy Cleaver Ruse — Senior Fellow for Legal Studies at the Family Research Council; Governor, Ave Maria School of Law
    • Peter B. Rutledge — Associate Professor of Law, University of Georgia School of Law
    • Jon A. Sale — former federal prosecutor for NY and Miami; former law professor, Nova Southeastern and St. Thomas
    • John Smietanka — former U.S. attorney
    • Stephen F. Smith — Professor of Law, John V. Ray Research Professor, University of Virginia School of Law
    • George J. Terwilliger, III — former Deputy Attorney General of the United States
    • Senator Fred Thompson — former United States Senator, Tennessee
    • Eugene Volokh — Gary T. Swartz Professor of Law, UCLA School of Law
    • Dan K. Webb — Chairman, Winston & Strawn; former U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois

    Suffice to say that your are not one of the very accomplished attorneys and politicians listed above. I also do not believe that you were hired on as legal counsel for the campaign, as you would owe a continuing duty of loyalty to your client that you would have broken multiple times by commenting as you have. No bona fide attorney competent enough to have been hired by the McCain campaign would have risked this.

    I concede that you might have been a secretary or file clerk or stamp licker; but that does not make you part of the “legal team” of John McCain.

    The problem with this site, Hot Air and similar ventures is that anonymous fakes, frauds and lunatics have, by mob acclaim, destroyed real dialogue. That’s why you get the abusive mob outpourings on people who express puzzlement at Governor Palin’s resignation (a matter I have no opinion on). That Patterico tosses bones of praise to the likes of you again says a lot about the deficiencies in this forum.

    Cyrus Sanai (ada6da)

  77. “That Patterico tosses bones of praise to the likes of you again says a lot about the deficiencies in this forum.”

    Cyrus – Yet you keep coming back.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  78. For what it’s worth, I think she will run in 2012, after having done a fair effort rallying Congressional support in 2010. The base is the heart and soul of the party,and Romney’s minions have driven a shiv into it, which will not be forgotten anytime soon. The irony of course, is that her track record in Alaska, was much more pragmatic than the image was crafted about her. Examples she vetoed an anti-gat rights measure
    on constitutional grounds, she accepted a pro choice, but not avowedly pro abortion Supreme
    Court nominee, she is for responsible oil exploration, but has put forward an alternative
    energy strategy as well

    narciso (4e0dda)

  79. And yet, you still come here as a moth to a flame.

    AD - RtR/OS! (820b2e)

  80. HAHAHA!

    Cyrus, I know a lot of people from the St. Louis Mccain Palin legal team and none of them were on that list, including Thor Quick, the person running his St. Louis legal team and a friend (and NOT ME). I will note that more people worked for his team in that single town than are on your list. All of them Lawyers… and surprisingly, most from Texas, like me.

    I am very amused at this attempt to out me, but I’m not going to tell you my name, because you would obviously attempt a nuisance lawsuit. I suspect very strongly that you already know exactly who I am because of your current situation. I still work in politics and don’t want to put Patterico in the position of knowing who I am and not disclosing it, and I want to muse on my own without speaking for anyone I work with.

    Everyone else, I don’t speak for the Mccain team, and I only worked for them for a few weeks. I was simply noting that I was biased in favor of Mccain when saying I’d vote for him again.

    Cyrus illegally wiretapped his own father when suing his own father, and was sanctioned to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars for being a total jackass. His own dad can’t trust him, and neither can you!

    Don’t be impressed by my credentials. Anyone with a legal degree who isn’t crazy can lend a hand to politicians near election day. I am simply a youngish guy who supported his cause.

    Juan (189aa5)

  81. Some pundit made a remark yesterday that spoke to the wisdom of waiting on things like this…. no need to try to be the smartest person in the room.
    That said, if I was to try to get out in front of the story early, put out my prediction and opinion, and someone chews my ass so bad I need a donor for the transplant… well, that’s too bad.

    If the Republican party uses Palin correctly… sending her to help out Republican party House candidates, they could raise funds and retake some House seats.
    She can mobilize a part of the base that will show up and vote. She can also get mom and pop to contribute online $50 and up in a way Romney, Huckabee, Gingrich, Steele never could dream of.
    Or they can shun her as damaged goods.

    I’m holding out for that cage fight between Palin’s mom and Letterman over the Willow/Bristol/ affair.
    My bet is Letterman taps out in less that 3 minutes.
    Maybe Grandma could propose a duel…

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  82. Damn, Thor Quick was the IT guy for the House Judiciary Committee when the GOP ran it.

    Thor Hearne ran the St Louis Legal Team for Mccain. Both are great friends with a cool middle name.

    Juan (189aa5)

  83. Cyrus that’s a choice, spending your time like that.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  84. I know I’m being goaded by a serial fraudster, but “you would owe a continuing duty of loyalty to your client that you would have broken multiple times by commenting as you have.” doesn’t make any sense to me.

    If there’s something I’ve said that exposes the Mccain Palin campaign in any way, I’d be very upset by that. I don’t believe I’ve uttered a word about the matter, but I also think I could repeat everything that happened, aside from the contents of a couple of conference calls and a couple of meetings, without exposing anything.

    St Louis was primarily about avoiding a problem in 2004 where there was a serious fight to keep polls open. I documented a lot of things. I made sure election judges were screening against a list of absentee voters and that they had all the resources they needed so that things would be smooth as silk and there would be no need to keep the polls open after 7. It turned out that the election wasn’t super close anyway. No one there wanted to do anything they would have wanted to keep secret, at any rate.

    Juan (189aa5)

  85. The next time Cyrus the Virus gets something right will be the first time.

    STíll waiting for that apology for the overt and aggressive lie you told about me, Cyrus.

    JD (7d2b58)

  86. You mean confusing a “legal team” with a “Justice Advisory Committee” does not surprise you?

    Me neither. It is the kind of sloppy work we see from Sanai.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  87. few liberals would actually support a candidate with the modern-day equivalent of Lincoln’s background or Truman’s education.

    I’m not too sure about that. My sense is that many liberals — far too many of them, in fact — will support any candidate just as long as he or she also is a liberal. So never mind whether that candidate is flaky, scroungy, corrupt, foolish, boneheaded or even rather lowly educated. Just as long as his or her ideology is of the left, everything else is of minor consequence.

    After all, the major citadels of the Democrat Party (and, in turn, liberalism) are found not just in communities like Berkeley or Austin, Texas, but also in the crime-ridden, semi-literate neighborhoods of St Louis, Compton, DC, LA, NYC, Oakland, Detroit, etc.

    Only when “lefties” in a place like Manhattan perceive their city as facing the brink — when, for example, New York City was becoming too dysfunctional even for the tastes of a typical liberal — and perceive a non-Democrat candidate on the ballot as being squishy enough to therefore be labeled non-rightwing (eg Rudy Giuliani), might they go against the grain and vote differently. But that’s the exception to the rule.

    Mark (411533)

  88. IANAL (thank Allah) and even I knew that, SPQR. This explains some of the hysterical rulings and judgments against him and his “creative” legal theories.

    JD (7d2b58)

  89. The only ruling other than the ones blasting Cyrus the Virus was the one from the federal Court, I think in Galveston, where the judge wrote about submissions in crayon on gravy stained napkins.

    JD (7d2b58)

  90. Juan wrote:

    Palin is taking on more, not less. You reject that analysis, but it’s still the case. You can call yourself honest and bestow yourself with whatever honorary you wish to have, but really, at the end of the day, Palin just took on the weight of a nation and stopped governing a small state that was ungovernable while being sues all the time.

    Mrs Palin is taking on what more? Just what actual responsibility did she assume, and by whose consent did she assume it? And how will we measure her successor lack thereof at it?

    This really is a serious question. As governor, she had definite and defined responsibilities, responsibilities for which she asked and which she was granted by the voters of Alaska. What actual responsibilities does she now have once she “took (upon herself) on the weight of a nation?” Does she now have to present a budget? Does she have to get any laws passed by the Congress? With which foreign countries will she have to negotiate? Will she appoint judges or lead the bureaucracy? And if she has none of these responsibilities now, on what will the voters be able to judge her come 2012 or 2016?

    If governing Alaska has become impossible because she keeps getting sued, how will that get better if she becomes president? Will governing the United States prove to be impossible for her because she’ll keep getting sued? (Remember, the Supreme Court allowed Jones v Clinton to proceed while President Clinton was in office, so there’s no specific protection from lawsuit while someone is president.)

    For Mrs Palin to become president, she will have to persuade a majority of the voters in this country, not just loyal Republicans, that she can do the job and should be elected to do the job. How will what she has done prove to the moderates that she is capable of being president?

    The inquisitive Dana (474dfc)

  91. Daleyrocks asked:

    Is the same true of Sebelius and Napolitano? What about Hillary and her Senate seat or Rahmbo and his Congressional seat. The line of reasoning is specious given that we know nothing of her next step.

    It has never been considered dishonorable to resign a position to assume another of greater responsibilities. Mrs Palin, however, has resigned to take no new job.

    The historian Dana (474dfc)

  92. That’s Judge Kent. He’s in jail now. There’s no dispute that he was one weird flake with the danger signals out there for many years in advance.

    nk (e98769)

  93. Dana, it depends, of course, on what Palin winds up doing.

    I think we will see that Palin did not leave her job in Alaska to do nothing, but rather is taking on a huge responsibility.

    You keep saying ‘considered dishonorable’ and ‘they say she’s a quitter’. Are we talking about the MSM’s determination? Are we talking about the voters? Voters forgive all kinds of crazy stuff. The MSM will not judge Palin well, no matter what.

    Juan (189aa5)

  94. The only thing Dana is it’s not uncommon in American politics for all the other candidates to suck more worser than any given candidate.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  95. Dana, somehow I didn’t see your prior post directed at me.

    You’re right, we need an answer to exactly what responsibilities she’s taken on, and from whom. The answer to that will help to see if it’s possible for her to overcome the unavoidable ‘quitter’ issue. Unavoidable, of course, because she was going to have to resign before campaigning for anything outside Alaska.

    I think we also need to remember that she only needs to convince a majority that she’s better than the rest of the people running. That means she needs to win a plurality of Republicans in the primary, which I think is completely doable given her ability to raise a lot of money and dominate the early states.

    It also means she has to impress the voters that she’s better than Obama. Both Palin and Obama will have hurdles at that point. It’s a class graded on a sadly easy curve.

    Juan (189aa5)

  96. Juan wrote:

    sorry, but people saying she’s ‘done’ are so extremely unreasonable that I find it amusing they are bestowing themselves with honoraries like ‘honest!’. Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, were all ‘done’ long before the news cycle became so short. Palin may not succeed in overcoming her problems, but she’s done a service for Alaska, her family, and her party, by trying this.

    I just hope that, along the way, she shows depth that I haven’t seen from her.

    I must admit that I find that amusing. You’ve expended a considerable amount of energy telling us — and me, especially — why Mrs Palin is a great woman, and could well have made the right move in seeking whatever leadership role she is seeking, yet you finish by stating that you hope to see a depth (of what?) from her that you haven’t seen yet.

    Were I to guess, based on that last statement, I’d say that your vigorous support of her was a form of devil’s advocacy; I’m not sure what else to make of such a statement.

    Two things must be noted here: if you, a supporter of Mrs Palin (or at least so I must assume from your writing here) have failed to see “depth” from her yet, ought it to be surprising that a lot of other people are not seeing that depth either? The second is the harder point: if you have thus far failed to see greater depth from Mrs Palin, is it possible that you haven’t seen it because it isn’t there?

    The amused Dana (474dfc)

  97. The prospect for the next 18 months was fighting phony ethics complaints intended to tie her down in Alaska and keep her from establishing a national presence.

    Are phony ethics complaints successful in taking down elected officials.

    Michael Ejercito (833607)

  98. Juan, right here and now, Palin, as far as I know, has not taken on a huge responsibility. You may have inside info the rest of us do not have, but as it stands there is no evidence – yet – of any huge responsibility being assumed.

    And for godsake, who is this Cyrus that periodically feels compelled to interrupt thoughtful threads to promote himself? He has gotten on my last nerve.

    If you find it so deficient here, why not take up a hobby: bowling, quail hunting, square dancing? But please stop trying to be the center of attention. I don’t think you realize just how unbecoming that is.

    Dana (8d88ef)

  99. happyfeet said it better than me.

    Palin isn’t running against Abraham Lincoln or Ronald Reagan. She’s running against Bobby Jindal and Mitt Romney (I like both of them, Romney more).

    These days, name recognition alone means a lot. Being attractive means a lot. When I picture Palin debating a bunch of republicans, her lack of depth seems like a huge problem. When I see her debating Obama…. it seems like she will just come across as a strong clear leader. In fact, I think Palin and Obama debating in the same room on TV would be a huge turning point for our nation.

    My primary point is that Palin isn’t ‘done’. Not that she’s the presumptive anything.

    Juan (189aa5)

  100. Oh man, I hope my talking about myself didn’t give any wrong impression.

    I have no inside info, Dana. I’m not trying to play some kind of appeal to authority game.

    we’re just musing and have different impressions.

    you’re right that I don’t know that Palin can overcome this quitter business. but I’m also right that she’s not ‘done’. By any stretch.

    Juan (189aa5)

  101. Mark #85,

    Good point. In my defense, I didn’t say it but I intended my comment to apply to Presidential candidates. I still think it’s true that most liberals would hesitate to support a liberal Presidential candidate with Sarah Palin’s background and education.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  102. My sniping at Dana was meant to be funny and friendly. May not come across that way because I wasn’t sniping in a friendly way towards the other person I disagree with strongly in this thread.

    Juan (189aa5)

  103. Juan, I was talking about one Cyrus being an unbecoming self-promoter, not you.

    Dana (8d88ef)

  104. Juan wrote:

    You’re right, we need an answer to exactly what responsibilities she’s taken on, and from whom. The answer to that will help to see if it’s possible for her to overcome the unavoidable ‘quitter’ issue. Unavoidable, of course, because she was going to have to resign before campaigning for anything outside Alaska.

    Perhaps we aren’t as far apart as it might seem. It’s just that I fail to see how she has taken on greater responsibility going from governor to an unknown and undefined position.

    As for the second part, many candidates, including governors, have campaigned for the presidency while still retaining their gubernatorial seats. Bill Clinton and George Bush both did so, successfully, while scads of other candidates sought the nation’s highest office while still holding a current position; the elder George Bush and Barack Obama both did so. Some candidates were out of office because their terms had expired (Jimmy Carter in 1976 and Ronald Reagan in 1980, for example), but the only candidate of whom I can think who resigned his office early to run for president was Bob Dole in 1996, after he had secured the nomination, but before the general election. It didn’t work out terribly well for him.

    The historian Dana (474dfc)

  105. Juan, just in case you didn’t know, the adjectiveless Dana and I are two different people. I append the adjectives to my name to distinguish myself from her, so people don’t have to check our embedded websites to tell us apart.

    It has become something of a game for me.

    The Dana who strives for precision (474dfc)

  106. The Adjective Dana,

    How could she campaign from Alaska? It’s one thing to fly from Texas or Arkansas to campaign in Iowa for the day. It’s another to take off 3-4 days to go there from Alaska.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  107. I knew there were two Danas, but wasn’t sure how to distinguish.

    No problem though. I don’t have a problem with either of you. I just disagree that Palin’s done. I think she’s got a lot to prove, but we’ll see. My sniping at the titles was just meant to be funny, though.

    To the adjective Dana, I think ‘Governor of Alaska’ was a great title to prove some leadership ability and reformist nature, but sticking with what was left of that job, as compared to leading a coalition of dozens of freshly minted Republican congressman is not a bad loss.

    It’s something she will have to sell. With a bit of BS. Sometimes voters buy it and sometimes they do not.

    Juan (189aa5)

  108. I still think it’s true that most liberals would hesitate to support a liberal Presidential candidate with Sarah Palin’s background and education.

    I almost wish you were correct, because that would indicate the typical liberal is more discerning and discriminating than I give him or her credit for. I see so much of the left doing backflips and contortionist routines to justify why they favor some liberal/Democrat, or to excuse away some major defect of a liberal/Democrat — on full display in the case of Bill and Hillary — that I’d be surprised if the educational/social background of a candidate on the left had greater value to them than anything else.

    Mark (411533)

  109. DRJ

    Carter was the most educated President…

    I don’t know if I can use a educational stick

    Except for Huckabee, I really havent noticed education being an issue as a base requirement for running for office

    Reagan was no cosmonaut in the degree department either

    EricPWJohnson (a7d970)

  110. Eric,

    I know. I’m trying to say I think an elite background and/or education matters more to today’s liberals than to conservatives.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  111. DRJ, while evidence shows you’re right (after all… when’s the last time a democrat made it to that level without a little Harvard or Yale?) it’s hard for me to get my head around the left dismissing a liberal woman with Palin’s manner and looks and experiences.

    But evidence says you’re right. I know a lot of very smart and attractive democrats.

    That’s pretty interesting, because you’d think it would work the other way. the populists should love the state schools and the meritocracy should love the crucible of Harvard Law (at least, I always thought it was the toughest law school aside from outliers like Baylor).

    but it works the other way entirely.

    Juan (189aa5)

  112. Meanwhile they just filed another ethics complaint on an issue, that was already thrown out, (the per diem) by someone who already had
    his complaint (about giving an interview to Greta in the Governor’s mansion)She would have loved to stay Governor, oversee the pipeline to completion in 2015, watch that the stimulus be spent properly, but it was not possible. Between the ethics complaints, and all the deliberate policy slights by the Obama administration, shutting the Aectic survey down, cutting the number of BMD bases and interceptors, closing off the Tongass Forest, xeroing out the F-15 at Elmendorf.

    narciso (4e0dda)

  113. DRJ


    Being overseas I was tuned out of most of the coverage

    EricPWJohnson (a7d970)

  114. I knew there were two Danas, but wasn’t sure how to distinguish.

    One has pretty long hair and beautiful dark eyes and the other sells cement by the cubic yard. (Ducks)

    nk (e98769)


    It’s crap like this that makes me irritated at the idea of Palin being our last hope. I still support her, but damn, I want some elitism in my elites.

    does anyone not flinch at this?

    Juan (189aa5)

  116. “It has never been considered dishonorable to resign a position to assume another of greater responsibilities. Mrs Palin, however, has resigned to take no new job.”

    Historian Dana – Feel free to apply your criteria. I’ll apply mine. I’ll wait until the facts are in to apply mine, thanks.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  117. “And for godsake, who is this Cyrus that periodically feels compelled to interrupt thoughtful threads to promote himself? He has gotten on my last nerve.”

    Dana – You ought to check out the link he left in the Kozinski thread of him attempting to make an oral argument to the Washington State Supreme Court in the appeal of the disbarment of his brother. He appears in all his jowly glory and pronounces everything Judge Kozinski’s fault and attempts to launch into his crazy judicial conspiracy theories. The Justices don’t want to hear it, but Cyrus doesn’t realize it. It is truly high comedy. He also floats a great theory of why lawyers need to disobey judges rather that follow established judicial processes. A truly magnificent warped appearance.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  118. Meanwhile they just filed another ethics complaint on an issue, that was already thrown out, (the per diem) by someone who already had
    his complaint (about giving an interview to Greta in the Governor’s mansion)

    Why are not the Republicans tossing phony ethics complaints against Democratic governors who might want to succeed President Obama in 2016?

    Michael Ejercito (833607)

  119. Here is what is annoying from Left and Right …. from the Althouse Blog in just the first page …..

    rhhardin said… Experience as a cheerleader in high school comes in handy!

    But being a drug addict and abuser in College is??? Can anyone say double standard?

    Krauthammer’s statement that “You cannot sustain a campaign of platitudes and clichés over a year and a half if you’re running for the presidency”

    Really Charles? Hope and Change? Defeating Hilary the Policy Wonk with Hope and Change?

    Althouse critiquing her Twitter usage by writing, “Is it presidential to write “u” for “you”?

    I guess that is worse than 58 states or FDR’s fire side chats on TV?

    Colin Powell quitting in the middle of a war to make bucks in the private sector.

    But now he is the voice of moderation and reason?

    Sad. Really. Hypocrisy is behind 99% of the critics, left and right.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  120. Palin quit the Oil Commission in Alaska to run for Governor. I guess she quit there too.

    Frankly, I call B.S on all of you going after her regardless of how I feel about how good, or bad, she might be as a candidate for POTUS.

    HeavenSent (1e97ff)

  121. Why all this pressure on Sarah Palin, on the notion that if she has a future role to play in public life, it has to be right at the top, no less than a run for the White House?

    Of course, it’s largely due to the magnitude of her persona, since even though she was, in fact, running against the other VP nominee, Joe Biden, in 2008, he, by contrast, never was — never has been — taken seriously or focused upon with great interest or curiosity, even by much of the left. So Palin does have a hook. But that shouldn’t force her into some narrow field of choices in, for example, 2012.

    I mean if Hillary “sniper-fire” Clinton can be Secretary of State, I think it would be ridiculous if Palin in the future doesn’t have a position in national life at least equal to that.

    And I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing that almost none of those clucking at her from the right have given her some leeway — some latitude — for bowing out of a rather hectic moment in her life (as governor) due to the fact she does have a young child to be raising. Or at least saying that the particulars of motherhood give her a perfectly laudable, valid reason for making the choice she did.

    Mark (411533)

  122. #74:

    I have worked on a number of campaigns. There are thousands of volunteers working in all capaxcities. A number of people who are various lists are there for recognition purposes only and do little if anything other than encourage contributions or serve as a fulcrum to get other to join or contribute.

    Based on your comments I doubt you have any real experience with campaigns and certainly do harbor partisan feelings that are obvious to the casual observer.

    It also appears your reputation is know to other readers here. You appear to rank somewhere below Happyfeet in terms of credibility, intelligence, and integrity. That’s quite an accomplishment.

    I do suggest you have much to contribute to a forum where your expertise would be highly sought after like FireDogLake or the DU. If you work really intensely perhaps you could find work as a researcher vfor Liz Trotter, or even run GM as part of the Obama economics team.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  123. Thomas Jackson:

    You appear to rank somewhere below Happyfeet in terms of credibility, intelligence, and integrity.

    Happyfeet is in the doghouse over Sarah Palin and her kids and with good reason, but I don’t think he deserves that.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  124. I read Ace’s new little tantrum and one immediately realizes the dictum when you’re digging yourself deeper stop digging.

    Apparently Ace is aiming for China. He is also exhibiting a paranoid tendency involving the hunting of heretics, etc. Am I wrong but I thought the last of the GOP heretics was burned at the stake last week? I must have missed some because Ace believes it is continuing.

    Apparently Petainistas and Frumistas are not to be examined at conservative blogs nor questioned in any way.

    So apparently conservative blogs are to adhere to the Obama dictum of “I won so SHUTUP.” Except of course the Petanistas didn’t win or even run a marginally reasonable campaign losing to the most extreme candidate any party has ever fielded.

    But then again McCain refused to question Obama or attack him. It must be some sort of disease.
    Worse, one of its symptons is to call your allies, “rednecks, idiots, living in fantasyland and of course bigots. and xenophobes.”

    One wonders if such symptons are terminal or not.

    Especially when issues such as our defense, foreign policy, cap and trade, healthcare seem to be of far more interest exploring than piling on Palin.

    But hey what do I know. Prior to Palin our MSM decided Wacko Jacko was more important than everything.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  125. Thomas Jackson,

    Comparing Cyrus to happyfeet is crazytalk. I had a difference of opinion with happyfeet because some of his descriptors relating to Palin and her family were too harsh for my taste. That doesn’t take anything from his intelligence, wit, and honesty. JD has met him in person and I place a lot of trust in JD’s judgment, so I just don’t get into it with happyfeet when the subject is Sarah Palin or her family.

    Cyrus Sanai is a bullying blowhard with delusions of adequacy and consistently beclowns himself here (and apparently, most other areas of his life. His self-described brilliant oratory was a farce which my 16-year-old son could demolish.)

    Disagree with happyfeet all you like, but please don’t compare him to Cyrus. All it does is elevate Cyrus unintentionally and undeservedly. Just my opinion, YMMV. 😉

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  126. Or, I could have just said what DRJ said. Of course, any opportunity to emphasize that Cyrus Sanai is a bullying blowhard is one that should be taken (like I just did again).

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  127. I like Cyrus, in a way. He seemms to have the same passion and energy about the law in midlife that I had at twenty-eight.

    nk (e98769)

  128. I like Cyrus, in a way.
    Comment by nk — 7/6/2009 @ 8:55 pm

    The new anti-psychotics are remarkably effective and the side-effects are not nearly as bad as some of the older medications.

    (I keed, I keed!!)

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  129. #125 – Passion is one thing, and admirable. Attention whoring, quite another matter.

    (btw, thanks, nk @ 7:32 pm)

    Dana (8d88ef)

  130. Our Take on That Whole Big Sarah Palin Thing with Ace of Spades and Ed Morrissey, as Filtered Through Our Man Karl…

    Karl — that Hot Air guy who sometimes throws a crumb or two to Patterico (and never even once to me, the villain!) — reposted on Patterico’s Pontifications what he had already reposted on Hot Air (with some commentary in……

    Big Lizards (5ca406)

  131. I think that Thomas is displaying the characteristics that Patterico warned of yesterday.

    On Cyrus’s best day, and happyfeet’s worsterest day EVAH, Cyrus would need a ladder to reach happyfeet’s feets. To compare them is like comparing the Cardinals and the Cubs. There is no comparison.

    JD (ba66cd)

  132. The new anti-psychotics are remarkably effective and the side-effects are not nearly as bad as some of the older medications.

    (I keed, I keed!!)

    Comment by Stashiu3 — 7/6/2009 @ 9:00 pm

    I actually had a trycyclic prescribed for me. For lower back pain. Thankfully, I had a doctor in the house who told me what it was so I did not take it. Doctors!

    nk (e98769)

  133. Stashiu – Thanks for the unwarranted words of praise. I am not worthy to carry your ruck, but appreciate the kind words.

    JD (8592a8)

  134. nk – Was that the doctor’s way of telling you the pain was all in your head?

    JD (b0434c)

  135. Not unusual for a lot of “Psych” meds to be used for off-label purposes. Tricyclics are common for migraines unaccompanied by depression. Wellbutrin and Zyban are the exact same medicine. They noticed that people taking Wellbutrin for depression had a lesser urge to smoke, did some studies, and got it approved as a smoking-cessation aid. They added the name Zyban to the trade names for it so they could sell it without the stigma of mental illness.

    There are literally dozens of examples.

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  136. To compare them is like comparing the Cardinals and the Cubs. There is no comparison.

    Comment by JD — 7/6/2009 @ 9:06 pm

    They’re only two games apart. That’s not a lot at this time of the season. And our steroid-taking home-run champion was only just a little bit darker than your steroid-taking home-run champion, but much taller and better-looking in my opinion. And you do know that there’s a lot of crossover, maybe not where you is, but in Illinois, where you have Cubs fans being Cardinals fans too?

    nk (e98769)

  137. Heaven forbid that a pharma rep get caught talking about an off-label indication though, Stash. Better Half got a new job in biotech, so she will soon no longer be a slave to the evils of Big Pharma. 😉

    JD (13ec59)

  138. nk – There is no place on God’s green earth where Cardinals fans are also Cubs fans, or vice versa. 2 games apart, this year. When one does a historical comparison, let’s use the last 101 years as an example, the differences are rather … impressive.

    JD (c32f91)

  139. nk – Was that the doctor’s way of telling you the pain was all in your head?

    Comment by JD — 7/6/2009 @ 9:12 pm

    Yes, I guess so. But I actually did have that thing that caused me to miss our getogether. But without X-rays …?

    He was a nice guy and a good doctor and he really did care about his patients. He was killed by an ambulance that crashed into his car.

    nk (e98769)

  140. JD,

    Most pharm reps do it anyway. They just caveat with something like, “I’ve heard that some doctors have had success with this for __________ , but we haven’t finished working up the studies to support that use yet.” They do have nice promotional stuff though (pens, penlights, calendars, calculators, clipboards, notepads, etc…) :)

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  141. When Better Half and I started dating, we had a full garage stall full of those promotional thingies. We still have half of a very large box of those unbreakable plastic drink bottles.

    JD (20aadf)

  142. Isn’t it interesting that when Karl (or was it Ace?) receives the slightest fraction of criticism that Palin has received constantly since the nomination, his decision is the same. He takes a time out.

    I think that’s hillarious.

    papertiger (ab2f41)

  143. Why are not the Republicans tossing phony ethics complaints against Democratic governors who might want to succeed President Obama in 2016?

    Comment by Michael Ejercito

    I think the main reason is that our side is actually morally better. Not entirely and not always, but generally speaking, we really don’t want this kind of thing. Maybe that’s bad. I guess, when you think about all those Iranians and Hondurans, playing dirty and saving freedom might makes sense. But on that road, at some point, is fascism.

    It’s just plain plum wrong to file a bunch of lawsuits to make it impossible for an ideological opponent to serve the people in their elected office. I wouldn’t want Obama to be hampered to the point that Sarah Palin has been. Even if I think he’s completely wrong, and I want his policy movement to fail, I don’t want him to be unable to administer the government.

    I think it’s interesting that I associate this kind of diehard mentality to Ace, who also used to jump the gun on stories all the time and embarrassingly retract them quickly. Here, he’s really pretty reasonable, even if I disagree with some of his conclusions. Ace has gotten to be a better blogger recently. And Michael, I don’t mean to judge you for this sentiment or act holier than thou. It’s good to discuss it. But that kind of shit is wrong. If our nation needs to be won by that kind of bullshit, than what did we win? I have faith that our country need only be reminded of what liberalism’s promises really cost, in freedom and money.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  144. Speaking of Cyrus.


    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  145. papertiger, I also noticed that. We can all mock Palin for not being able to handle it, but none of us could either. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

    One more thought for Mr. Ejercito, the media climate is such that Sen. Edwards can let an aide’s family take credit for his bastard child, and that get covered up, but Gov. Sanford can have a frank discussion of his affair, and that be amplified. Indeed, every GOP scandal will be amplified while Dem scandal covered up. And if our leaders have to be half as dirty and twice as competent (not saying much), then so be it.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  146. Stash – Epic is the perfect word for that. Cyrus just got a mushroom bruise right across his forehead with that one.

    JD (63f92d)

  147. Yeah, yeah, yeah … I denounce myself.

    Since Ace is kind of the topic, I would note that Andrew Sullivan has a post about that defines Ace essentially as an uber-nutter that is so disgusted with the nutters that he has to take a break from blogging. I quit reading about halfway through, but I would be shocked if he did not sneak Trig into that rant by the end …

    JD (6c42fd)

  148. You know I think of myself a decent person, that may be why in the support of this candidate, over most others, but why should we be so circumspect.
    Yes, she signed off on the ethics law, because of
    her sense of marality and integrity, specially after the William Allen VECO scandal, where the corruptor got off scott free, because the Justice
    Department and the FBI were in his court. She never thought it could be used as a cudgel against
    an honest person.

    THe other side follows Alinsky, who dedicated his book to Lucifer, “the original rebel” makes no bones about using crisis, to undermineinstitutions
    and take them over, ‘you can’t let a crisis go to waste’ is their motto. I’ve gotten more cynical and less idealistic since last fall; don’t know what could have occasioned that; wait I have a clue.

    narciso (4e0dda)

  149. no, no, no, pattericos.
    We hate her because of this……

    cw:There was a slight chance that she would be vice president. The apoplexy was terror-based. It’s like if someone seriously proposes letting a chimpanzee land the passenger jet your traveling in. Your offended that someone would be so reckless with your safety and terrified that your fellow passengers might somehow be persuaded.

    Did you get the part in her audio, Karl, where she says she prayed on her decision to step down?
    Jesus-take-the-wheel is not a good strategy to endorse if one is seeking high office.
    Jesus is a very bad driver,
    He already drove us into the ditch on Eye-Rack.
    What if Jesus decided to drive us into Iran to save Israel?
    Sarah really, really loves Israel.
    Giving Sarah custody of the nuke-lauch codes is even more foolish than letting that chimp land the jet.

    wheeler's cat (9733ae)

  150. wheeler’s cat,

    Some of us think Jesus is a very good driver. That’s kind of the point of the song too, so it really doesn’t make your case, does it? 😉 I’m wondering. Why would someone who apparently dislikes Christians would reference a song celebrating a strong faith in Jesus? Kind of strange.

    I don’t agree with the rest of your comment either, but Palin’s been talked about much worse. You’re entitled to your opinion, mine differs.

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  151. Obama also prays he will be the Lord’s instrument:

    “A written prayer that Barack Obama left this week in the cracks of the Western Wall, Judaism’s holiest site, asks God to guide him and guard his family, an Israeli newspaper reported Friday.

    “Lord—Protect my family and me,” reads the note published in the Maariv daily. “Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  152. I’m reading a biography of Calvin Coolidge. At the part where Coolidge is vice president, sitting idle, whittling a stick as president of the Senate, the writer directs a modest amount of attention to Warren Harding as President.
    Harding benefitted by the strong Republican support of the women’s sufferage movement. The Wilsonians had dragged feet and blocked the womens vote. Finally in the midterm of Wilson’s last years in office the ladies prevailed upon their husbands to vote GOP. The new republican congress quickly passed the amendment to give ladies the vote sending the matter to the states for ratification (IMO reading the news of the states ratifyiny one by one is what caused Woody to stroke out).
    The Harding election was the first after that, and the ladies swept him into office along with GOP majority in both houses.
    Some Harding accomplishments – he pushed industry to adopt the 8 hour work day. Before Harding the 12 hour day was standard.
    He also originated that most sacred of American institutions – the weekend off.
    He freed union organizers from prison (Wilson had locked thousand up making them effectively political prisoners – thought that didn’t happen in America? It does – just not under GOP admins).
    Harding even had the freshly sprung Eugene Debs over to the White House for dinner.
    Under Harding the right to unionize was established by law.
    Also he started the federal Highway system. I always thought it was Ike who did the highways but Harding is the guy who started that ball rolling.
    Coolidge’s great strength was that during his time as VP he studied Hardings policy objectives
    and was smart enough to continue them after assuming office.

    The reason I bring this off topic up it to point out that Liberal professors widely report Harding as the worst of Republican Presidents.

    I think Hoover, but if Harding is the worst, then I’d take the worst that the GOP has to offer over a Democrat any time any where any office any situation any scandal any way.

    I think the demonising of Harding was a strategy for the Dems to co-opt unions and pretend authorship of the supposed success of the labor movement.
    You ever met a Dem who didn’t claim their party invented the 8 hour work day? Union organising? the Weekend?

    Also I bring this up as pretext to ask the question what has the Democrat ever done for this country?

    Kind of like asking what have the Muslim ever invented.

    If nothing else Sarah Palin’s announcement knocked the network loop of the dancing cadaver off the airwaves for the Forth of July weekend.
    Forgetting all her other accomplishments, for this as a stand alone she deserves the Nation’s eternal gratitude.

    Thank you Sarah & Dude.
    Good timing girl.

    papertiger (ab2f41)

  153. Comment by DRJ — 7/6/2009 @ 11:27 pm

    Heh. Wouldn’t Jesus say the same thing to President Obama that he’d say if Sarah Palin was in charge? Maybe wheeler’s cat doesn’t think President Obama and Jesus are really on speaking terms.

    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  154. #127 and # 125

    Apparently I do not share your opinion of the intelligence, credibility nor wit of Happyfeet compared to Cyrus. Now on the positive side I find said lawyer to be of the type one normally associates chasing ambulances when not busy rolling drunks.

    But I have read nothing from Happyfeet that allows me to conclude that he enjoys the same measure of esteem that a dead badger does. He marshalls less evidence than Helen Thomas in her more lucid moments. Letterman displays more wit when pimping adult diapers. As for intelligence, Happyfeet appears to be a gravitational well into which reason, logic, and judgement disappear never to reappear.

    So I hereby offer my apology if I have offended Cyrus by comparing him to said montebank and charlatan Happyfeet.

    I have a limit for insufferable sanctimony when it is enlivened by a rabid but feral rage and hatred in the form of agitpropr that leads to an infantilization of thought. With Happyfeet one can rest comfortable in never having to ascribe to incompetence that which can adequately be attributed to malice and moral dyslexia.

    I otherwise enjoy all your comments and insights with the sad exception of Happyfeet.

    By the way after meeting said troll, did you contract anything requiring medical attention?

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  155. lol
    That was a formal prayer, not like Palin’s request for instruction on her “decision” to step down.
    Nope, only the lower left side of bellcurve talks to Jesus.
    Some use religion, some are used by religion.

    …and….that song makes my friends and me shriek with laughter.
    I am not serious.

    wheeler's cat (9733ae)

  156. Wow….beatin’ up on feets?
    that big smaller tent keeps on a shrinkin’.

    wheeler's cat (9733ae)

  157. That was a formal prayer, not like Palin’s request for instruction on her “decision” to step down.
    Nope, only the lower left side of bellcurve talks to Jesus.
    Some use religion, some are used by religion.

    Comment by wheeler’s cat — 7/7/2009 @ 12:29 am

    Uh huh. Say, pussycat, answer me this — what do you think is Obama’s religion?

    L.N. Smithee (bf2ab8)

  158. I can not speak for others only myself on why I am a Palin supporter. to me it is the message she brings to the table. that of a citizen government governed by other citizens. A government that is limited by the consitution. A government that is not too big to allow freedom and liberty to flourish.

    yes other politicians “mouth” these words. some well and some not so well. However Palin lives them. her life is the example to me at least that she means what she says and is not simply using poll tested words. And I do believe this was the same reason for the support of Fred thompson.

    Now why limited government supporters get so defensive when our leaders like Palin are attacked. Because we have seen since Reagan that our leaders always get attacked. The statists went after Fred. they went after Palin. they go after any and all conservative limited government leader that is mainstream. they allow the wachjobs like Ron Paul to run unmolested but if a mainstream leader believes in smaller, limited government they are attacked.

    So I defend Palin, I defend Fred as I will defend any and all people that express that belief of consitutional limited government, federalism and the belief that avg citizens are smart enough to govern themselves.

    I am tired of hearing from pundits that the Americian people are sheep, that they are stupid etc. that they not I know what is best for myself and my children and my family. It is my life to live not theirs to control and as long as Palin lives and talks of those beliefs I will defend the lady with my very fortune be that as it may and my life.

    unseen (f8f32d)

  159. “…drove us into the ditch on Eye-Rack.”

    The leftscum are still bitter because their side (the leftist/Baathist/terrorist side) got its ass kicked in Iraq, I see.

    Boo hoo.

    I think Sarah Palin would make a pretty good president, btw.

    For sure better than the socialist nitwit we’re currently saddled with.

    Dave Surls (1a361a)

  160. DRJ asked:

    How could she campaign from Alaska? It’s one thing to fly from Texas or Arkansas to campaign in Iowa for the day. It’s another to take off 3-4 days to go there from Alaska.

    She doesn’t have to come by dogsled, you know. Is it really significantly different for a politician to fly from Juneau to the western half of the country than from east coast to west?

    The Dana who has flown before (3e4784)

  161. Mr Johnson said:

    Carter was the most educated President…

    No, actually. He attended Georgia Southwestern College, and was then admitted to, and graduated from, the United States Naval Academy. However, he holds no (earned) post-graduate degrees. That would put him well behind most twentieth and twenty-first century presidents, many of whom had law degrees, and one, Woodrow Wilson, who had a doctorate. The younger President Bush has an MBA from Harvard, while the last two Democratic presidents have law degrees.

    The adjective-laden Dana (3e4784)

  162. NK @ #116: I buy cement (a grey powder) by the ton; I sell concrete (a mixture of cement, stone, sand, water, pozzolans and chemicals) by the yd³. Please make a note of it!

    The concrete producer Dana (3e4784)

  163. Ok, ok, and you have nice eyes, too.

    nk (e98769)

  164. The Dana who has flown before,

    It’s faster to fly back and forth from Europe than Alaska to the heart of the early Primary states.

    And that’s not even adding in the duties of the governorship. It’s apparent you haven’t flown before… to Alaska!

    Juan, who is an insomniac (bd4b30)

  165. #160 Unseen “…it is the message she brings to the table. that of a citizen government governed by other citizens.”

    Yes. When I heard she was being considered by McCain, I googled her name and looked up all I could find about her. It was at that point that I felt we (conservatives) finally had the right person seeking a higher office. I stand behind her for the same reasons you listed.

    I hope, now, that she will use her energy and following to promote efforts at affecting change at local levels. Getting behind movements like Portland’s Season of Service. She has a spotlight on her – I hope she uses it to show how citizens (without government intervention) can get things done.

    Corwin (ea9428)

  166. Happyfeet is in the doghouse over Sarah Palin and her kids

    thank you DRJ but it was just the one daughter who went on Fox with her mom and did a People magazine cover that I’m critical of because it betrayed I think a very much “media as usual” approach to pr as well as fed into a celebrityness that is very very hazardous for Sarah Palin – meaning the Sarah Palin brand of which daughter Bristol is an extension – to be seen as cultivating… as opposed to the genuineness what is her most appealing characteristic. Here’s a bit of the pr what was generated:

    The network interview was Bristol’s idea, the teen said. And she apparently sprung the news to her parents that she was going to speak publicly the day before the network taping. The teen said she wanted to tell her story so that other young people might think twice about having sex.*

    In how many ways is that phony and mendacious? At least three I’d guess. Every sentence is a lie. I just want it noted is all that all my criticism of Bristol has been in context of how her public relations efforts are mis-keyed and betray a media naivete on the part of the Palin operation that in many ways was also reflected in the orchestration of her buh-bye press conference.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  167. nk, the use of anti-depressants is standard therapy for low back pain that is becoming chronic. If they are not helpful, the next step is SNRI type anti-depressants. SSRIs, like Prozac, are usually not recommended.

    The left is hugely impressed by degrees and elite institutions because that is their base. Without the teaching by left wing professors since 1965, there would be no effective political left. Communism has collapsed everywhere except elite institutions faculty lounges. And their devoted followers in lesser colleges.

    I have been appalled at my daughter’s experience thus far in a highly regarded state university (Arizona).

    Mike K (2cf494)

  168. You see, folks, wheeler’s/nishi worships at the altar of Teh One, so it is not laughable for him to pray. The Sufi sychophant’s standards change depending on the target. Plus, she is the worst kind of bigot, and is an advocate of genocide and eugenics.

    JD (760170)

  169. Thomas Jackson – You really do not play well with others, do you ?

    JD (4230cf)

  170. Somehow the term tricyclic got deleted from that comment. Tricyclics are first choice. SNRIs are second choice. Pub_Med is the National Library of Medicine’s public access and requires no registration. It is searchable. I haven’t done it, but I suspect entering “back pain” and “tricyclic” will get thousands of hits. It is standard therapy and is intended to make pain meds more effective. Both effect endorphins.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  171. I like Palin but I’m not going to dig into the swamps with her haters. Waste of time. My only real issues are with basically conservative folks such as a few at RedState that I otherwise respect pronouncing loudly and viciously that “She’s DONE.” I don’t believe that and I don’t believe even her most insane PDS sufferers believe it.

    We’ll see what happens. I just know some of us will never again vote for a McCain type or any Dem Lite Republican. A true game-changer is what we are thirsting for.

    Peg C. (48175e)

  172. In my case, MikeK, and it is not self-diagnosis, I had a triple whammy. Physical damage at L5, with horrible sciatica, enlarged, inflamed prostate (PSA 13.9), and my father had just died. Many things were giving me a pain in the ____.

    nk (e98769)

  173. And I loved my doctor. He was what doctors are supposed to be. One time, I told him that I would get a sharp pain on my left side, about where the ribcage starts, after having an apple and a glass of milk before going to bed. He said, “Then don’t have an apple and a glass of milk”.

    nk (e98769)

  174. And you do know that there’s a lot of crossover, maybe not where you is

    But as we all know, Hoosiers have no actual baseball team in their own state, so they’re just assorted hangers – on to whatever team is winning at the moment (sorry JD, but you’ve had that one coming to you for a long time). Being a Cubs fan all my life I duly grant you that they indeed possess a suckitude beyond all dimensions, but at least my team was located within 100 miles of where I grew up. And BTW, your beloved University of IL has been revealed to be just another corrupt Chicago – style fiefdom, with political cronies calling the shots to their cowed Board of Trustees. What.a.bunch.of.feckless.cowards. When you get the chance, catch the vid of the esteemed former Federal Judge Abner Mikva giving the University President his backside repeatedly yesterday during the hearings regarding the scandal.

    It’s faster to fly back and forth from Europe than Alaska to the heart of the early Primary states.

    Uh, not really – my wife’s been a flight attendant at American for almost 20 years at this point, and since they started direct flights to Anchorage from most major US cities a few years ago, it’s actually about 6 – 7 hours total, unless you’re traveling from the East Coast. There’s also about 10 minutes required to get from your gate to your car/hotel, since Anchorage is quite small and traffic is non – existent.

    So I don’t think that onerous travel explanation carries much weight these days. I’ve done the trip on business a few times from Chicago, and it’s not much worse than flying to Seattle.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  175. For sure better than the socialist nitwit we’re currently saddled with.

    That’s my view of Palin, whether or not her resignation as governor turns out to be politically wise. I’ve my doubts about Palin, but compared to God, Jr. there’s no contest.

    It is truly sad to see people who should be allies tearing each other apart.

    Bradley J. Fikes (30cf33)

  176. I don’t think it’s so bad, Bradley – what doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger, and that kind of crap. Some truth to it, though.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  177. Well I’m late but Ace is talking about a strain of enthusiasm that is common in local political parties, central committee and campaigns. For crying out loud, we need to buck each other up – who else will? It’s like we know there is this other reality, but when we meet we think and talk positive. And there’s always a handful who seem genuinely surprised their guy didn’t win.

    But this mindset makes for terrible blogging and commentary. Ace would not be interesting without his gimlet eye. As a local activist I have been reluctant at my own (stupid) site to be really honest about my party’s prospects, yet still too objective for their taste, too, so pleasing to no one except maybe curious out-of-staters.

    cassandra (5a5d33)

  178. Comment by Dmac — 7/7/2009 @ 8:06 am

    Remember, though the Governor keeps an office in Anchorage, the State Government is based in Juneau – what are the travel peculiarities of flying in and out of there?

    What would be an itinerary of flying from Juneau to Des Moines, for example? And return. Total time flying plus layovers.
    If the Governor was to speak at a function in Des Moines – say, a rubber chicken dinner on a Wednesday – when would she have to leave her office in Juneau, and when could she expect to return – all using commercial airlines?
    I have a hunch it is much worse than anyone has imagined, and she would be crucified for using charters, even though that is how the game is played in the lower-48.

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  179. Dmac – Touche’. Though I did grow up within 100 miles of the not-laden-with-suckitude St. Louis Cardinals.

    When I flew to St. Michel island from Indianapolis, it took 3 connections and 2 days. Kotzebue was friggin’ cold.

    JD (3cf7d4)

  180. Andrew Sullivan quote of the day: “I sure hope [Palin’s’] family recovers from what she has done to them.”

    Joe (a32cff)

  181. Andrew Sullivan is a c*ck. The complete lack of self-awareness and introspection required for him to say that is breath-taking.

    JD (47b659)

  182. Well, to be perfectly honest I don’t exactly fly to Alaska a lot.

    But I seriously doubt it takes merely 7 hours to get from New Hampshire to Anchorage. And what if it does? That makes it completely impossible to run for president while serving as governor.

    And given the climate of lawsuits, where 80% of the time they were not even able to serve as governor in Alaska, I think it’s amazing to consider just how impossible it would have been.

    Not that this changes that she needs to explain herself, but if she needs to be in Alaska a few days a week and she needs to campaign 7 days a week, a 14 hour round trip is just out of the question. Has anyone ever succeeded with a primary attempt with half that burden?

    Juan (bd4b30)

  183. I don’t get that – her term was up in 2010 and she would have had two years to campaign unencumbered of governorship.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  184. LOL, I show my ignorance. Juneau, of course, not Anchorage, and I checked and it takes a little over 8 hours from Manchester, NH to Juneau, so I am sure that 7 hours isn’t out of the question at all.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  185. Stepping aside to let the successor run as in incumbent is not all that uncommon.

    JD (b17e89)

  186. Happyfeet, I am getting tired of justifying this Palin business. To be honest, you’ve got a great point. I guess I could just change my argument to ‘campaign all over the USA for congressmen’, but ultimately, that’s not a 7 day a week problem.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  187. Andrew Sullivan quote of the day: “I sure hope [Palin’s’] family recovers from what she has done to them.”

    Comment by Joe — 7/7/2009 @ 10:09 am

    Andrew Sullivan will never recover from what he has done to himself. His $100.00+/day AZT cocktail is being paid for by American taxpayers. The sooner he is deported to where Great Britain used to be and gets the benefit of its public health service, the better America will be.

    nk (e98769)

  188. Nasty little PowerGlutes. Please, pretty please, Patterico, let me call the degenerate, disgusting, bald, fat, ugly, middle-aged pervert a f_____t, here

    nk (e98769)

  189. ‘campaign all over the USA for congressmen’ makes a lot of sense and it’s not bad in terms of sending a signal about priorities except she didn’t say that – maybe she said that in her more recent interviews

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  190. I like the comparison to Rush’s ‘I want Obama to Fail’ comment. Not to incite that argument again, but the democrats actually decided they didn’t just want Palin to fail at administering Alaska, but by God, they were going to sue her every single day, and attack her family every single day, until she actually did fail to finish her term.

    There’s more to the story than that, but this is clearly what the democrats did and meant to do. If the right did such a thing, we would never hear the end of it. Hell, the right vaguely said something that could perhaps be interpreted as wanting the same result, and that alone gets 1000X the press of the left actually doing it.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  191. I am going to denounce and condemn nk in advance.

    JD (8f212b)

  192. I think ‘campaign all over the USA for congressmen’ is pretty close to what she says here

    “I want to work, right now, for people who are going to work either in office or out of office for the right things. Those principles that build up America, those who are inspired by the values of America, and will not deride or apologize for the values we hold as Americans.”

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  193. Dmac, I’d agree with you, but remember that Chicago is a big hub. Also, this isn’t a primary state, just a money-raising state, for that 12 months before the primaries. I honestly hadn’t thought about how bad this travel would be. Remember, she’s got a family to raise as well.

    – Juneau – Columbia, South Carolina = 12 hours minimum, even if you fly to Charlotte and drive, you still have to change planes at SeaTac.
    – Juneau – Des Moines = 12 hours and 2 connections minimum. Flying from Anchorage cuts it to just under 8 hours.
    – Anchorage – Manchester = 12 hours (as Juan notes, Juneau is faster at 8 hours)

    There is no way she can do this flying commercial, and even private jet would be onerous. I used to fly private from Chicago to Seattle and it took 4 1/2 – 5 hours, so I figure that’s at least 6 hours to Juneau, and probably 8 hours to Anchorage. And again, that’s to Chicago, not Manchester or Columbia. Or Miami, for that matter.

    carlitos (730478)

  194. this thread was a circus, and it’s probably covered this 50 times, but happyfeet, while I’m giving excuses ‘she barely had a choice’ crap in the recent posts…

    There’s also the simple ends-oriented reasons. For her obvious 2012 presidential aspirations, she has sucked the oxygen and money out from all competitors. She is all we are talking about. The GOP has a face, a leader, a voice who will be on TV whenever she likes. She has our attention. Not completely in a good way, which hopefully was a calculated problem.

    So, beyond the bad situation she was in as governor, and Alaska was in with her being sued repeatedly, Palin has really shown that she has a strategy that is extremely effective at getting eyeballs. That’s a big deal.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  195. Ah, fair point that in primary season, she would not have been governor any more…

    carlitos (730478)

  196. I am going to denounce and condemn nk in advance.

    Comment by JD — 7/7/2009 @ 10:57 am

    Why? I am willing to concede that Mark McGwire used his power glutes, to “power” a baseball bat, in a totally different manner from the disgusting degenerate pervert that Patterico will not allow me to call a f_____t, here.

    nk (e98769)

  197. carlitos, I have to wonder, is 8 hours or 12 hours much different?

    Both are just plain way too long to seriously content… hell, to seriously survive the process.

    My mistake for comparing this to Europe, though by your numbers, I wasn’t far off with that comparison. Anyone who has flown for business several times in a month knows that doing this 14-24 hour round trip a couple times a week and being Governor and somehow winning a presidential primary is ridiculous.

    As Happyfeet pointed out… she would have been out of office as governor in 2010. :(

    Juan (bd4b30)

  198. So we all agree she shouldn’t run for reelection as Governor, though.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  199. Now, off to put a dent in the fresh oyster supply down here. I am planning on eating my body weight in oysters this week.

    JD (985829)

  200. July does not have a “r” in it, JD.

    nk (e98769)

  201. 4 dozen yesterday, and I am fine, nk. But thanks for your concern 😉

    JD (ec8749)

  202. I agree Mr. Juan except I think her eye-ball getting powers wouldn’t have been diminished by completing her term.

    What’s done is done and the good news is she’ll soon be able to work full time on convincing me she made the right choice. :)

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  203. There is a reason why few presidential campaigns that don’t originate in the east are successful. Reagan was an exception and california has lots of huge hubs but try flying to and from Alaska a few times before you pronounce it no problem.

    Remember, though the Governor keeps an office in Anchorage, the State Government is based in Juneau – what are the travel peculiarities of flying in and out of there?

    What would be an itinerary of flying from Juneau to Des Moines, for example?

    She was taking steady flak about keeping her office in Anchorage. It makes no sense to keep the capital in Juneau but the war between Anchorage and Fairbanks has kept it there for 50 years when it should have moved as soon as development began.

    That was one source of constant complaints and the child care issue arose from that.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  204. I hate to pull rank around here, nk, but slamming Ol’ Milky Loads is MY job!

    David Ehrenstein (2550d9)

  205. Racists.

    The Emperor (0c8c2c)

  206. she’ll soon be able to work full time on convincing me she made the right choice isn’t as bad as the rest of the politicians..

    Juan (bd4b30)

  207. that’s a good point but at the end of the day she’d never ever be the first one I threw out of the lifeboat … yes I’m looking at you Lindsey

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  208. What about F*ckabee, happy?

    JD (d3fb37)

  209. I heard a report that Palin is not going to merely rally the GOP. That she intends to support Democrats and third party candidates.

    I am going to go out on a limb (not sarcasm), and predict that the first major politician that Palin helps is a democrat opposing a jerk republican, like, say Arlen Spector. That would really destroy a lot of narratives and get her back on her older track of cleaning the GOP house.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  210. Huckabee. I kinda thought about this. Huckabee could be very very valuable in terms of a foil that could help Sarah Palin define herself away from the narrow socialcon box Barack Obama’s dirty socialist media tries to keep her stuck in.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  211. Earth to Juan:
    Arlen Specter is now a Democrat, again!

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  212. try flying to and from Alaska a few times before you pronounce it no problem.

    Mike K has a good point. In Alaska, they have this thing called “weather” on occasion.

    Huckabee should please go away.

    carlitos (730478)

  213. C’mon, conservatives. Stop crying in your beer. Cull through your farm team and find a fresh up-and-coming-candidate. One that isn’t recommended by Bill Kristol.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  214. All Right! Who left the Doggie-door unlocked again?

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  215. Well, like Specter. Perhaps not Spector himself, though time spent in Penn is probably not time wasted for presidential aspirants.

    Though admit it: if Palin helped the GOP whoever beat Spector, it would endear. I truly hope happyfeet’s idea about Palin distinguishing herself from Huckabee comes true. I’ve never really seen where this ultrasocialconverative label came from for her.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  216. What would be an itinerary of flying from Juneau to Des Moines, for example?

    Well, if she approached her goals like a salesman would, she’d fly into a West Coast city intially, then work her way across the country from there. Not a big travel problem there, IMO.

    There is no way she can do this flying commercial

    Again, she only has to plan a travel itinerary – she could leave the kids home with the hub and do a quick tour across the country, no biggie. There is no reason on earth that she should travel to one city from Alaska and then go back home immediately – so yeah, if she’s going to go about it with that type of Joe Biden takes the train home from DC every evening , then forgettaboutit.

    Dmac (e6d1c2)

  217. Oh, I get it Dmac – I was writing of how hard it would be to do it while governor, and that seemed impossible if there was state business. Blagojevich notwithstanding, most governors probably work more than that.

    carlitos (730478)

  218. carlitos, you might ask Cokie Roberts about that.

    Another quitter:

    New Hampshire attorney general Kelly Ayotte, a Republican appointed by a Democratic governor, has resigned her office to consider a campaign for the U.S. Senate in 2010:

    “Today, I have submitted my letter of resignation to Governor Lynch effective Friday July 17, 2009. I want to thank the Governor for appointing me as Attorney General. I have had the honor of serving two Governors of different parties and I am grateful to both of them for allowing me to serve. It has been a privilege to serve the people of New Hampshire. I have been honored to work with our dedicated and courageous law enforcement officers to keep New Hampshire a safe place for our families. I have been proud to work with Governor Lynch to improve our criminal laws to protect our children from internet crimes and sexual predators.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  219. no biggie!!! I somehow think it would be a lot harder than that. Bear in mind that Sarah Palin is not a very good campaigner when her family isn’t with her. She isn’t a politician and can’t be 100% trusted, but she’s completely sincere about her need for her family.

    I guess this is a silly topic, anyway. She wasn’t able to be governor, and this ability to travel is one of the many perks of her realizing it in time.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  220. Mike, sounds like a Democrat problem. The voters elected a democrat who appointed her. Turns out, most of the ‘quitters’ lately were appointed by democrats like Obama.

    Of course, the real quitter is the nation’s heartbeat,

    Juan (bd4b30)

  221. have we talked about this polling dater?

    Independents by 55%-34% would prefer she leave the national stage.

    there is other stuff but that one is the one what is concerning

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  222. 53% call the media’s coverage unfairly negative

    That’s very impressive, really, and kind of exciting.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  223. I’m still baffled by those who think traveling to Alaska is no different than traveling in the lower 48. It’s a long, tiring trip … and how was Palin supposed to take off time from her Governor’s job to do all this traveling? I don’t care how many times you say it, taking a one-way trip of 8+ hours is difficult to schedule and hard on the candidate and staff. Do you schedule all-night travel to arrive on the East Coast for daytime appearances and return to Alaska all night the following night? Or as Dmac suggests, do you take off a week at a time and barnstorm the U.S. like a traveling salesman? Bush and Clinton could take day trips when they were sitting Governors but there’s no way Palin could do that, so by definition she’s going to look like an absentee Governor.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  224. “a third of Democrats say coverage of Palin has been unfairly negative” it says

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  225. I don’t think one can underestimate the job she has to do with Democrats. Here is a quote from one of my friends’ facebook page. There are a lot of people that can only imagine the Tina Fey impersonation, having no idea about Palin’s experience, etc.

    Is anybody else upset that Sarah… um.. what’s her name again…. oh , Palin resigned to concentrate on her 2012 campaign?? Yeah right.. But, I hope she does so Tina Fey will do her hilarious impressions again.. When asked about her experience on foreign policy, her answer was and I quote ” I live close to Russia and Canada.” Stick to the Hockey Mom thingy.

    carlitos (730478)

  226. i hate facebook

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  227. carlitos,

    I think she has a big hurdle with young people but not necessarily all Democrats.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  228. Barack Obama has loads of damage to do before 2012.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  229. carlitos, it’s possible that facebook postings like those will actually help Palin. Perhaps not, but if people say asinine slurs, it can make you sympathetic to the victim of the slur.

    I do think that it also undercuts the idea that we can believe anything we hear about Palin from the media. I recall on this blog when the initial lie that she was about to be indicted came out… from… Amused as Hell? I honestly wondered if he was right. Now, I doubt I’d buy any scandal with Palin’s name on it.

    This ‘liberal media bias’ is an incredibly valuable idea to propagate. It’s not in the nation’s best interests to have a press that lacks the credibility to vet republicans… but it is to the Republican’s advantage.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  230. 210

    Going pretty farout on a limb there aren’t you? No one loves Spector but any dhimmi in PA is going to be farther to the Left than Spector.

    It would be a stretch to see how Palin would strengthen her case by assisting someone who is even more out of touch than Spector.

    I am willing to wait and see what she does.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  231. That’s why I used the word ‘LIKE Arlen Spector’. I was forgetful that Spector was a democrat, for some reason. But Spector moved our nation to the left more than most democrats managed to, over the years. He was a valuable saboteur.

    I really should have said Lindsey Graham. Well, perhaps not, but there are a few corrupt GOP congressmen out there that Palin could do very well to campaign against. Of course, there are more than a few corrupt dems she also would do well to campaign against.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  232. #171 and 170

    Pot meet kettle.

    JD you are funny. So in romper room where you keep in your own cell?

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  233. Is the problem with our nation tehse days really all that ideological? to some extent it’s about ‘government is the problem’, of course, but a lot of the problem is that some of these congressmen are crooks. Right and left. Palin can support people she disagrees with on some policies (not anything, but some), while rooting out a Republican who is a complete crook, and make tons of headway.

    Of course i’m musing.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  234. Now why limited government supporters get so defensive when our leaders like Palin are attacked. Because we have seen since Reagan that our leaders always get attacked. The statists went after Fred [Thompson].

    I had a stutter of the memory when you wrote that, but then the light bulb went on — YOU’RE RIGHT!

    Remember, folks, how Fred was portrayed as laconic and unfocused, and his drop-dead gorgeous 24-years-his-junior wife Jeri — who possesses that most valued standard of intelligence, seriousness and legitimacy, a law degree — was sneered at by alleged Republican Joe Scarborough, who wondered aloud on his live MSNBC show if she “works the [stripper] pole.” Then, a New York Times reporter Susan Saulny asked “Is America ready for a President with a trophy wife?” setting off the predictable MSM chain reaction.

    Here’s Saulny, On July 8, 2007, two years ago tomorrow:

    And unlike other potential presidential spouses like Elizabeth Edwards and Michelle Obama, Mrs. Thompson lets her husband do most of the political talking. In public appearances recently, her most dramatic statements have been sartorial, like gold-lamé wedge sandals on a campaign stop, or a plunging neckline for a Washington dinner.

    On the other hand, Saulny’s February 14, 2008 profile of Michelle Obama described her appearance thusly:

    At almost six feet tall in heels, Mrs. Obama, 44, cuts an athletic and authoritative figure in her tailored pantsuits and skirts.

    L.N. Smithee (17b920)

  235. Juan:

    I would hope she campaigns against any corrupt individuals in the government. I’d like her to start with those individuals who made millions at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac while telling the Congress and public that their policies were sound.

    Its a shame our political system has collapsed. We now tolerate those who will use any method to insure descent people would never dare run for public office.

    Its amazing how many elected officials should be in jail.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  236. Of course, Dodd and Frank are a lot worse than any Republicans I can think of, Jackson.

    It’s pretty clear that our nation’s 2 party system doesn’t work unless someone actually does root out corruption of their own. it’s counter productive to some extent, I guess. I hope I’m a realist.

    But what made Palin what she was at her height in Alaska was her cleaning house on both sides of the aisle. It not only gave her credibility, it was the right thing to do.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  237. carlitos wrote:

    I don’t think one can underestimate the job she has to do with Democrats. Here is a quote from one of my friends’ facebook page. There are a lot of people that can only imagine the Tina Fey impersonation, having no idea about Palin’s experience, etc.

    With their savaging of Palin and McCain and hands-off approach to the Obamas, liberals in show business and their allies in the news media have turned humor into a partisan weapon, and Tina Fey was their bayonet blade. I examine this in detail here.

    L.N. Smithee (17b920)

  238. Comment by L.N. Smithee — 7/7/2009 @ 2:31 pm

    Gosh, reading the links about Fred made me sad. If only

    Dana (8d88ef)

  239. Gosh, reading the links about Fred made me sad. If only…
    Comment by Dana — 7/7/2009 @ 2:46 pm

    I agree, L.N. Smithee nailed it (again). I got so frustrated with the “no fire-in-the-belly” meme, just because he didn’t start campaigning 3 years out from the election and began his run at a more usual point.

    MSM then:

    “Fred Thompson equals bad because although he has gravitas, he doesn’t have fire-in-the-belly.”

    MSM now:

    Sarah Palin equals bad because although she has fire-in-the-belly, she doesn’t have gravitas.


    Stashiu3 (3fc50f)

  240. “Fred Thompson equals bad because although he has gravitas, he doesn’t have fire-in-the-belly.”

    Dumbest thing ever said: obviously Fred had and has fire-in-the-belly – look who he’s married to.

    Dana (8d88ef)

  241. Conservatives should cut their losses with Palin and find a fresh face. In the end, she was simply a McCain ‘hail mary’ that went incomplete, just like her tenure as governor. She will always be remembered as a quitter. Hopefully no other shoe will drop in this as Americans have had more than enough of scandal of late. Palin’s best move it into the realm she criticizes yet is most comfortable in- the media. The camera loves her. A TV or radio deal, even a book deal and so on will make her a wealthy woman and give her a platform to advance a conservative agenda without being held to account as an office holder.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  242. What’s the answer to that? Palin isn’t going to be able to turn the MSM or humor around. I’m kidding myself when I think they have lost thier credibility with the people watching the pedo’s funeral.

    What’s the damn solution?

    Juan (bd4b30)

  243. “…Independents by 55%-34% would prefer she leave the national stage…”

    A poll result driven by relentlessly negative media coverage.
    Would you expect any other result?

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  244. I don’t think DCSCA has said anything about Palkin since her announcement that didn’t include the line ‘She will always be remembered as a quitter’.

    I’m kinda getting the impression he is worried people will forget that. I’m cynical about our system and suspect he’s right… people will not care about that after a few months.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  245. Independents

    I’ll bet you a “dollar to a do-nut” that a significant number of those independents still think that the GOP was running Congress between ’06 & ’08.

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  246. As Andrew Sullivan said about Palin today: “I sure hope her family recovers from what she has done to them.” Given all the mud he has flung, Sully deserves to burn in hell for that comment.

    Well in the words of Fight Club: Her name was Sarah Palin.

    Murtha, any ethics problems? Reid, ethics issues? Bawney Frank, ethically challenged? Old Sod Dodd, ethic issues? Payback is a bitch.

    Joe (a32cff)

  247. I know Mr. Rtr/OS! you are right that the media drives Sarah Palin’s negatives but what’s concerning is if she achieves her goal of becoming the de facto leader of the party. It’s kind of like how you can have a super excellent cast in your film but then you give Paris Hilton a role and suddenly you have a marketing challenge on your hands.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  248. happy…She (Palin)’s a politician…lighten up…it’s not like she’s going to play Lady MacBeth.
    Oh, BTW, Paris had pretty good ratings on her show “The Simple Life“.
    Plus, my friends call me AD!
    The rest is a political statement.

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  249. ok. Maybe that was a bad example.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  250. Nice cartoon linked by HotAir today:

    The best clues why Sarah did what she did: The words out of her mouth. People just don’t want to believe her and want to speculate on ulterior motives. Has she ever said she was going to run for President? Not that I recall, but who knows. Occam’s Razor has usually provided the best results with Palin.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  251. I’m pretty sure she’s a lot open to the idea of being president. President Palin is what people would call her in this scenario.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  252. Marshall McLuhan famously said that the medium is the message.
    If you can broadcast one simple tale 24/7, you can, in Lincoln’s famous words, fool all of the people, at least part of the time.
    Look at how the MSM for seven years described the economy as ailing even when it was doing well, to drive down GWB’s performance rating.
    Now, when the economy is truly horrific, they grasp at any straw to describe how wonderful things are going.
    With the death yesterday of Robert McNamara, I am reminded of that old saying of his that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately for the media – as it was for him – it is an approaching express train.

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  253. Palin has a choice to work on her policy knowledge as well as do fund raising and campaigning for others, always assuming that is her plan. If she does not deepen her knowledge base, she will not be a successful candidate. Read a bit about Margaret Thatcher. She did not spring fully developed from the brow of Zeus. Now, whether Sarah has the same iron will is another matter.

    I don’t know but I submit you don’t either.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  254. If she doesn’t run for president in 2012, I will eat my own head.

    She’s honest, but she’s not crazy. You have to manage the flow of information a bit. Right now, she is linking the harassment to the resignation. But she is going to spend the next couple of years building a coalition, and then she’s going to run.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  255. “Look at how the MSM for seven years described the economy as ailing even when it was doing well, to drive down GWB’s performance rating.
    Now, when the economy is truly horrific, they grasp at any straw to describe how wonderful things are going.”

    AD – Interesting that you point that out. Just to point out how delusional Democrats actually are, recent Rasmussen polling shows them believing the economy has significantly improved over the past year.

    “Rasmussen reports released their latest economic polling this past weekend. Rasmussen reported on Sunday that democrats actually believe the economy is better today than it was a year ago:

    Over the past year, overall levels of consumer confidence have bounced around a lot but ended up with little change. For the full month June 2008, the Rasmussen Consumer Index was at 71.9. In June, 2009, that number was 72:0.

    But underneath those stable topline numbers is a dramatic shift along party lines. A year ago, Republicans were far more confident than Democrats. Today, the reverse is true.

    Among Democrats, the Rasmussen Consumer Index jumped from 53.7 a year ago to 79.5 in 2009.

    Among Republicans, confidence was at 99.4 a year ago and it’s fallen to 68.6 today.”

    daleyrocks (718861)

  256. Republicans had a 99.4 confidence in our economy a year ago?


    I have to wonder if that polling company is accurate. But also, given how the economy really was pretty great from 2002 to 2006 or so, and the press preached doom the entire time, I can understand why it would be hard to see the crisis emerging.

    I also don’t think things had to collapse when they did. I think, perhaps it was going to happen anyway, but the timing was managed for political reasons.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  257. the economy had a certain tipping pointishness that was a little contrived I thought

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  258. Two numbers:
    Unemployment in June-08 was under 5%;
    In June-09 it is 9.5%!
    They can’t put a happy face on that, and the Two-Million Jobs lost since 20 Jan 09.

    AD - RtR/OS! (17371b)

  259. As Andrew Sullivan said about Palin today: “I sure hope her family recovers from what she has done to them.”

    I hope the psychotic stalking OB-Gyn himself is the first one to have a frivolous lawsuit brought against him by Palin.

    Dana (8d88ef)

  260. AD, but Obama saved or created 50 million jobs. Read the other thread. He has trident missiles and technically his decisions range in potential from status quo to Armageddon.

    So, 9.5% funemployment is actually a huge improvement over what would have happend under alternative plans.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  261. This whole story seems like life imitating art as a scene out of the 1967 TV series, “The Prisoner” …

    I will not make any deals with you. I’ve resigned. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

    Neo (46a1a2)

  262. Palin’s policy knowledge. Pinpointing this as her weakness is to pinpoint as her weakness exactly what Barack Obama’s dirty socialist media would pinpoint as her weakness, but policy knowledge is not her weakness.

    Why is that one person president right now? I will tell you. Anger. Barack Obama ran a campaign based on anger. Anger stoked by a servile media what learned in the flooded streets of New Orleans that they had a talent for emoting and a talent for wholly invented narrative that they had too too long suppressed.

    Barack Obama can’t run in 2012 with the winds of anger filling his dirty socialist sails. Unless he’s running against Sarah Palin. This is her weakness I think. There’s no one the Republicans can nominate what would more better galvanize Barack Obama’s base than Sarah Palin.

    That’s significant cause the way Barack Obama is pitching our little country into a downward spiral of despair and decay all what might be needed to defeat him is for some unassuming bloke with a pleasant enough face to say hey vote for me I can make it stop.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  263. Am I disappointed that she left as Governor? Yes.

    Do I still support her as a decent woman who did accomplish much as a Governor? Yes.

    Did even Richard Nixon have to deal with rape jokes about his daughters? No.

    Put into that perspective, she has done less to get more bad treatment than Richard Nixon did. Far less than he did. There is something seriously wrong when something like this is going on… there is no proportionality between her treatment and what she has done in her life.

    I will support her no matter what she wants to do, even if it is run a set of hunting lodges! And that while not agreeing with her more than 65% on most topics… save that is far more than I agree with any other politician of the last 20 years or so. A good, decent woman who ran a good campaign and carried out with her promises to drive corruption out of the Statehouse and her party? Any others like that running for office lately?

    ajacksonian (87eccd)

  264. An interesting argument let’s pick some one who won’t really fight like McCain, who conceded every
    argument to Obama, What is exactly is her policy weakness, she screwed up the name of General McKiernan, but she didn’t pretend that we had kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, that partitioning
    Iraq was a good idea, that the Contras and the Pershings were provocative. In the midst of a massive economic crisis, with a 750 milliondollar war chest, with the news and entertainment media
    firmly in his corner, it’s a wonder it was this close.

    narciso (4e0dda)

  265. The American Spectator, Limbaugh and avrious other commentators who are the heart and soul of the Conservative mobement have given an opion that differs greatly from the Brooks-Frum-Vichy wing of the GOP.

    Why is it that Palin can’t lead. Have you ever seen anyone suggest after McCain or Kerry lost their elections that their political careers were over.

    We are seeing projection of the rankest sort.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  266. Juan: When I see her debating Obama…. it seems like she will just come across as a strong clear leader. In fact, I think Palin and Obama debating in the same room on TV would be a huge turning point for our nation.

    Juan, could you expand on this? What, of anything that you’ve seen from Palin thus far would make you think she would come across as a “Strong clear leader,” in comparison to Obama “in the same room, on TV?” She did terribly against Biden and Obama, was a commanding debater against McCain. When faced with tough questions on policy in the past, either with Gibson or Couric, Palin was beyond pathetic. SHe was an embarassment. She had no understanding and no preparation, furthermore she didn’t feel she needed preparation which is a receipe for disaster.

    Sounds like magical thinking to me. If she can’t take the pressure of being the Governor of Alaska, what is going to prove to anyone in this country beyond her biggest fans, that she is going to be able to take the pressure involved in running the nation?

    KittyKat (7ee55a)

  267. Neo: #

    This whole story seems like life imitating art as a scene out of the 1967 TV series, “The Prisoner” …

    I will not make any deals with you. I’ve resigned. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

    Comment by Neo — 7/7/2009 @ 6:04 pm

    Only problem with that is that No. 6 (“The Prisoner”) was looking for a quiet and free life where he could find some real and deeper meaning and Sarah Palin quit the Governorship because she was probably having a bad hair week, couldn’t stand the pressure of dealing with the fact that her job answers to the people of Alaska, and the next day decides to go out on a fishing trip with 28 camera crews. Ha HA….

    KittyKat (7ee55a)

  268. Palin did terribly against Biden?

    No, she stomped him. She well and truly stomped him.

    She did terribly against Obama? What are you even talking about?

    I reject your view that she couldn’t take the pressure of being governor. She passed that pipeline, and reformed their government substantially. Both are huge accomplishments that Alaskan governors have failed to handle for a generation.

    She was simply sued into oblivion and unable to successfully finance or staff the governor’s office and her ethics complaints. It’s like Rush saying ‘I wish he would fail’, except put into lawfare practice where democrats actually force the governor to fail.

    Obama has a really hard time talking smartly when under pressure. Today he had a gaffe that will probably wind up in history books. Obama has a thinner resume than Palin and Obama quit easier tasks than Palin has. Palin and Obama both speak in generalities. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for! vs Palin’s simple message of limited government and opportunity is going to be a fundamental moment for our country.

    I’m not even saying Palin will win. That’s really up to people younger than me, who don’t have the attention span to read Gingrich’s books or Ayers’s either at any rate. That’s why I think the moment that Palin and Obama, teleprompter free, are arguing about Obama increasing the deficit more than all other presidents combined, failing in Iran and Honduras to match the promises he made about his diplomacy, and Palin’s own policy views which hopefully will be fleshed out, I think the next generation will have a golden chance to make a central choice about what the USA is going to be.

    I don’t see how that’s wishful thinking.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  269. As Andrew Sullivan said about Palin today: “I sure hope her family recovers from what she has done to them.”

    I sure hope the ______ gets deported so American taxpayers will not have to pay for his $100.00/day anti-AIDS cocktail. Especially in this economy.

    [nk], Attorney at Law (e98769)

  270. No, she stomped him. She well and truly stomped him.

    I disagree. She didn’t answer most of the questions and instead kept repeating the same old, same old pablum “limited government and opportunity” ad infinitum, same old dog-whistles to the same old contingent who had no idea that the political foundations have shifted profoundly, followed by a wink or a double-wink and a “you betcha!” Biden came across statesman like and in command of the issues.

    Answer me this: Who won the McCain/Obama debates? If you answer McCain, then I don’t think you can get beyond your own prejudices. The idea of Palin and Obama debating, anything is ludicrous. As for Obama… do you speak perfectly at all times? It’s just this ass-backwards way the Right has of trying to make an opponents strength a weakness. Obama uses a teleprompter, rightly so. He’s a writer and writers like to write and read their ideas and their words. It is an art. Did anyone give Lincoln shit for reading the Gettyburg Address from a prepared document? What utter nonsense.

    failing in Iran and Honduras

    More wishful thinking. Amazing how much the man has failed for the Right after only being in office 6 months. Iran is a situation in progress. It was right to not give the hardliners in Iran the excuse of commiting even more horrors than they did with the idea that they had to defend themselves from the “meddling” of the United States. Everyone understands this. The Iranian people who marched in the streets, progressives and conservatives in this country, but not the Limbaugh Right. They’d rather a massacre of inhuman proportions take place upon the Iranian people so they can exact as much political capital as possible and as it stands they exacted almost nothing. Why? Because Obama, is too methodical and too smart to let them get any traction. His response was exactly right. Iran will have a more moderate and pro-west, pro-American government before Obama’s first term is over and he should and will get the credit for it. As for Honduras, the jury is out there as well, but you can be sure that what the people of that country want is what will eventually happen. But the rule of law needs to be respected for now.

    I think the next generation will have a golden chance to make a central choice about what the USA is going to be.

    Egads, man. That train has already left the station. The “next generation,” has made its choice and it was a decisive historic vote against the GOP and its failed policies, manifested in the form of a man we now call President Barack Obama. A poor kid who came from nothing and through his own intelligence and abilites is where he is now.

    Palin on the other hand has become a lint trap for racists, white supremists, homophobes, warmongers,sour losers and almost anyone who’s unwilling to take responsibility for the failings in his or her own life so they need to have a scapegoat. As long as she’s around the GOP is going to fall into greater and greater (if that’s possible) irrelevance and disarray.

    KittyKat (7ee55a)

  271. Have I said before that Andrew Sullivan is a disgusting old, bald, fat, terminally sick, ______?

    nk (e98769)

  272. Sullivan deserves pity more than hate. His extreme ugliness, and the way he bashes people who are much nicer than him, simply demonstrate that he’s got a really sad problem.

    It’s so dangerous to have unprotected anal sex. That’s ultimately what cost Andrew Sullivan his mind… a fate worse than death. Some of us know about the disgusting and extremely reckless advertisement Sullivan wrote that was part of a terrible miscalculation. Whatever odd joy he got from that behavior, I am sure he would trade in an instant for his marbles and health.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  273. She did terribly against Biden and Obama, was a commanding debater against McCain.

    I think you are ignoring the fact that Biden, when he doesn’t know an answer, which is most of the time, simply lies. No one calls him on it. I thought she did quite well in the debate. She failed in the interviews, especially with Kouric.

    Obama is a slick talker and McCain couldn’t explain his own health plan but Obama was lying about his policies all the time. He memorized his TOTUS speeches and that is what he said.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  274. It does seem a lot easier to simply say “I can save health care and save money and give 95% of Americans a tax cut and reduce the deficit and use my diplomacy to make the situation with Iran much better!”

    Of course, wrong on all counts, but some people actually rely on the press to tell them that.

    Part of the magic for Obama was that he had never really done anything at all. He wasn’t really a legislator since he didn’t make or really even vote much on bills. He had such a minimum of biography. So we could elect a brazen liar who could be all things to all people. Of course, that’s not a long term plan, and the democrats blew a tremendous opportunity.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  275. Juan, you represented a war hero who “knew nothing about the economy,” wanted to bring Georgia into NATO (thus embroiling us in another war 8000 miles from home), and nominated a woman who can’t tell us what newspaper she reads, can’t take criticism without complaining about “the media,” and whose husband was a member of a secessionist party. A man whose answer to the question of tax cuts was “we should make the tax cuts I said were unjust and unfair permanent,” i.e. “I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it.”

    And, you have the cojones to call Obama a liar? My taxes HAVE been cut. Reforming American health care would save money (for small businesses especially). And, his way on Iran is much more likely to be successful than George’s “nudge, nudge, Israelis, when are you going to attack them and drive oil up to $200/barrel” approach was.

    Seems to me, Obama has done many things he said he would and on the things he implied or said he would do that he has refused to do, my side of the aisle has more right to be pissed, eg civil liberties.

    So, why don’t go back to spinning for the salmon governor of Alaska (collecting two checks on state time, eh Sarah?). You know, what you got paid to do.

    timb (288ad2)

  276. timb, your criticism of Mccain isn’t 100% invalid. I think Mccain is an amazing man, and most of the reason I supported him was simply that he had courage and intelligence and would handle the oddball stuff that happens from day to day.

    When you see Obama act on Honduras or Iran, that’s the kind of thing I’m talking about. I grant that Mccain preaching fiscal sense is, indeed, not consistent and inviting a lot of attacks that are fair. Mccain has never been perfect.

    Palin is not a secessionist. But Judge Sotomayor is. She also drew a paycheck on the side while serving as an ADA. Palin isn’t doing that.

    But, democrats love this ‘force the GOP to play by rules we don’t play by’ game.

    If I’m being paid to say this, does that really matter? Does it change the truth of what I’m saying? If I were pretending to be something I’m not to stir up trouble, that would be something, but the I’m just presenting an argument. it’s no more or less valid if I’m paid. and I’m not… for the record, an astroturfer. I just don’t think the astroturf problem is really about people spending time to earnestly support something they sincerely care about.

    A lot of your other attacks are stupid. Palin could tell you what she reads, but the question was insulting and she let it get under her skin because she was an amateur politician. Georgia should be in NATO. Russia is a paper tiger, and we let them expand their influence at the expense of freedom. etc etc etc.

    Instead of coming up with one clear argument, you just shout out 100 little things and don’t flesh them out. Why not pick one, and we can give our arguments, and then move on to another?

    Juan (bd4b30)

  277. timb, another point: if you want to pretend this isn’t true, that’s your business, but Obama has a persistent policy of attempting to raise our taxes in many areas.

    He’s already done so in very regressive ways. He intelligently realized that Americans love tax cuts (as Mccain did), and promised tax cuts for 95% of Americans. Unlike Mccain, who had to articulate a policy change, Obama just lied about what he believed. He wasn’t ready to lead. Still isn’t.

    Obama had major attacks on Mccain for his healthcare taxation idea. The same idea Obama now promotes. Obama had huge, huge attacks on Bush and apparently the democrat congress for deficit spending. How many times has Obama promised to reduce deficit spending? Even after he has increased it more than all other US Presidents combined, he is promising to champion this cause.

    When it comes to GITMO’s prison, gay rights, and everything else, Obama is a damn liar.

    But you’re right that Mccain changed his view on tax cuts. It’s totally the same thing.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  278. “….and on the things he implied or said he would do that he has refused to do, my side of the aisle has more right to be pissed, eg civil liberties.”

    And so it begins. It’s as if nobody learns the lessons of the last 4 years. Or even learns anything from Bill Clinton.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  279. I don’t see why the Republicans shouldn’t be concerned with civil liberties, either Brad.

    When I look at the cutting edge of civil rights these days, the people speaking free in the face of media and government bashing, amendment one, or people talking about keeping their utility knife or pistol, amendment two, or stopping eminent domain, kinda related to amendment 3 in an ‘implicit concept of ordered liberty’ kind of way, or wanting their information protected from a healthcare database or COI census worker, amendment 4… going all the way to amendment 10 and I really think it’s not the left side of the aisle that gives a flip about my civil rights.

    Sure, if you call race hustling ‘civil rights’, then you guys are total heroes.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  280. #245- No cynicism about it at all. Palin will be remembered as a quitter and she continues to reminds Americans of it with every interview she keeps granting to the same media whose treatment she finds repugnant. Palin has a lot in common with North Korean missiles– lightweight, erratic and prone to flame out short of the mark.

    The GOP is a better party than this. There’s certain to be a stabler, fresher face on the farm team somewhere across the hinterland who’d appeal to moderates for a win. Someone with a ‘big tent’ philosophy and not championed by the likes of Bill Kristol. Run Palin nationally and the GOP will be crushed. Palin’s best move is to Fox News for a TV show or a syndicated radio deal to move a conservative agenda along rather than trying it as an office holder. The camera loves her and Americans might enjoy seeing her bounce around on YouTube more than Limbaugh anyway, and they have similar messages.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  281. she was probably having a bad hair week, couldn’t stand the pressure of dealing with the fact that her job answers to the people of Alaska, and the next day decides to go out on a fishing trip with 28 camera crews. Ha HA….

    Funny how some quitter chick with a bad hair week can draw 28 camera crews – after she announcing her resignation. Maybe the newsies, including Plain lover Andrea Mitchell, always wanted to take the long flight to Alaska, hop on a boat for the long ride out, put on some waders and breathe in that pungent odor of dead fish. Or maybe she just wanted to make fun of Palin’s bad hair that day, eh?

    Yeah, that must have been it.

    Ha Ha, indeed.

    Dana (8d88ef)

  282. She’s definitely a spectacle but she will lose in 2012 I think if we nominate her. The American people do make coherent statements now and again. Take the last election for example. They voted for the cool black guy and rejected the lame old white guy. They didn’t vote on politics – that’s why the Barack Obama doesn’t have to actually implement any of the policies he campaigned on. There’s no read my lips dynamic that is remotely imaginable.

    America is not a country in which a majority strongly identifies with uber-white people anymore. Hackey Mam is about as white as you can get I think and she’s an embossed invitation for people to vote for the Barack Obama on identity politics grounds irrespective of what we might think the issues of the campaign should be. She’s antagonistic to the sensibilities of a majority of Amerkins is why.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  283. What sort of clinches it for me is how so many people are going out of their way to deride the whole Michael Jackson thing. They don’t get it. There’s a reason celebration of Michael Jackson resonates widely whether you agree with it or not. Just as there’s a reason derision of Sarah Palin resonates widely whether you agree with it or not.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  284. Palin will be remembered as a quitter and she continues to reminds Americans of it with every interview she keeps granting to the same media whose treatment she finds repugnant.

    How Americans see Palin is entirely up to Palin. The polls are already out and prove that the public largely has the exact same view of her before she resigned. Which is quite mixed, but her quitting made a tiny, perhaps 1 % change.

    And the reason for that is because the people either hate her, love her, or are impressed by the fact that the democrats wanted her to fail so badly they treated her worst than Richard Nixon was treated.

    More ethics suits than Nixon.
    More rape threats against her and her kids than Nixon.

    And the voters realize that Palin hasn’t really done anything to justify this level of anger.

    Can Palin overcome the quitter label? LOL, that’s not her problem at all! She’s already done that. Now, she needs to convince America that she’d make a smart president. that might be a taller order, but it’s not any harder because she resigned. That’s just the left’s wishful thinking.

    did you guys really think you were going to lose the entire congress in 1994? Or that Bush would be reelected? DCSCA, did you? I thought Mccan was going to lose from the onset (and that’s a crappy attitude, but it’s true). I’m not dreaming when I think Palin has the potential, if she really does deserve high office, to convince Americans.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  285. Sarah Palin is sort of the Hannah Montana of American politics. Enthusiastic yet homogeneous consumers in a narrowly targeted demographic.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  286. happyfeet – This DSCSA one is an odd one. Looking forward to seeing y’all on Monday. Back to the links … 😉

    JD (f257b2)

  287. I am taking 7 little girls to see Hannah Montana. I should get some kind of an award for that, because Allah knows I did not volunteer.

    JD (bf39bc)

  288. happyfeet, that’s thoughtful.

    I just don’t agree. Obama won 52% of the vote. Palin needs to turn 2 percent of the ID voters to vote for the first woman. If we’re going to be strictly speaking about identify politics. Which we’re not! We’ll be talking about unemployment and probably some really huge tragedy we aren’t aware of yet.

    And another point is that Obama was seen as a cool black guy because he was a total enigma politically. He’s not, anymore. He’s not going to have as easy time convincing Americans that he’s an agent of change or hope. He will be disrespected regarding the economy and foreign policy.

    He has fixed his greatest problem: experience level.

    It probably does rely on something beyond argument. Something about dislike for Palin does indeed resonate very, very strongly with some people… I just don’t think they will decide the election.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  289. I said ‘if palin deserves high office’. I was sloppy there. No one deserves office. It’s not a prize.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  290. I think DSCSA and ilk have an unfortunate way of solidifying and entrenching pro-Palin attitudes. It’s great if you think she is the numero uno bestest one for president – I wish to all get out she were my president today. But in 2009 the question is how best can Sarah Palin help salvage something of our little country from the depredations of merciless dirty socialists what are merciless and dirty.

    People don’t want to ask that question. What I’ve read leans a lot more to planning a coronation really. With revenge as a leit motif.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  291. also see you monday I have to get busy getting ready I head out tomorrow

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  292. Yes, happyfeet, revenge. I want that.

    But also, you are so skeptical that Palin is going to be able to use her ambition to help fight socialism creep.

    She’s obviously tough to predict, but if she’s going to follow the obvious path, she is going to run around the country helping get the GOP some seats in Congress. And since she does indeed bring in money and people, I think she’s going to make a real impact.

    When she does, I think she’s going to impress people like you who just haven’t seen anything from her that is seriously effective. Or anything from her that impresses you with her ability to beat Obama.

    Her need to convince people like Happyfeet is going to drive her to work very hard on congress. It’s a good thing.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  293. It really doesn’t matter who wins in 2012, since the world is going to end on December 21, a month before the inauguration would take place. :)

    carlitos and associates (730478)

  294. I hope so but to say it plainly I think Sarah Palin is iconic almost to the point of being archetypal. And by this I mean that persuasion will not be a particularly useful tool to have in her toolkit. There are precious few what are persuadable.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  295. I guess that wasn’t really saying it plainly but it’s the best I can do just right now.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  296. Well, maybe Obama is going to kick it up a notch from his anger at democracy in Honduras to starting world war 3 as Palin is about to be coronated!

    Oddly enough, Dec 21st is Jane Fonda, Phil Donahue, and Joe Stalin’s birthday. But it’s also Jack Bauer’s. Can his birthday disarm the plot the other birthdays have hatched?

    Happyfeet, with the House, that’s probably just fine. There are more than 40 districts held by dems with people who love Palin. With the general election, I think it will be a referendum on Obama’s economy and foreign policy. Obama has lost a ton of popularity. I really think these years are long enough.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  297. I just think you have a more better chance of framing the election as a referendum on Obama’s economy and foreign policy with a Jindal or a Pawlenty. My marketingish instincts say boring is the new black come 2012.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  298. sometimes I make myself giggle

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  299. Everyone should consider themselves denounced. Denounced and condemned.

    JD (84d3bd)

  300. i read that as jiggle, and was about to suggest you cut carbs.

    Anyway, I like Pawlenty. I would be pleased with him. Perhaps happier than with Palin.

    Jindal is a joke.

    Here’s the problem, happyfeet, Palin has already, at least to some extent, gotten it into many voter’s heads that the media is full of crap about her. Jindal would be demonized. Pawlenty would be demonized.

    No doubt about it. Someone will be talking about raping their wives or kids if they become the front runner. Palin is special and attracted a lot of fervor, but the media is going to be able to do a lot of damage to these other guys.

    Their real test will be if they can beat Palin in a debate. If they do, and go on to beat Obama, after Palin already raised GOP money and got them seats, then that’s a win win win for you!

    Juan (bd4b30)

  301. I think this is my final thought about your post Mr. Karl. I don’t think very many people can help how they feel about Sarah Palin.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  302. Juan – ANY Republican will be demonized. Period. They freaking loved McCain when he was the “maverick” doing things like bashing Bush, promoting his disasterous McCain-Feingold, etc … As soon as he became the nominee, he became the enemy.

    JD (708a81)

  303. oh. I hadn’t seen Juan’s reply. I’m such a liar about the final thought thing. I don’t think Jindal is a joke but I do think he needs to come out and say my god that was dumb what I wrote about exorcisms. Jeez I must have been stoned or something.

    I think that would help a lot.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  304. ten bucks says that wasn’t happyfeet’s last comment in the thread.

    Did anyone really LIKE George W Bush? How did you feel about the person? I was surprised he had the stomach to take the abuse and stay the course. I thought he was a privileged kid version of his diplomat dad. A compassionate conservative with muddy thinking. He has won so many big elections, anyway. If he ran today, I suspect he would shock people with how well he did against Obama.

    Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were both very likable compared to Paul Tsongas and Hillary. Democrats clearly really care about how much they personally like their candidate. But a lot of voters don’t really care about how much they like the candidate. They almost want someone that isn’t appealing, but can deal with the ugly job.

    The GOP doesn’t seem to nominate their most attractive guy nearly as often.

    just a thought. I don’t think Palin’s personal likability is the end of the argument.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  305. I liked President Bush. I liked him a whole freakin’ lot. I disagreed with him on some issues, and certainly on spending, but I liked him.

    JD (bf39bc)

  306. Comment by DCSCA — 7/8/2009 @ 12:43 pm

    You need to read this;
    or, do you prefer to go through life known as Johnny one-note?

    AD - RtR/OS! (685f75)

  307. I admire the man, now that I realize what he was made of.

    But on election day, in 2000? I thought he was a jerk for how he treated Mccain (I have already explained my bias). I was voting against Al Gore.

    Regardless, I think that compared to Al Gore and John Kerry, Bush was pretty damn cool, so my point is perhaps a load of crap.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  308. #281- Maybe Palin should follow Nancy Reagan’s advice over these continuing free interviews after her July 3rd presser and ‘just say no.’ It’s ‘funny’ all right. She keeps rambling and they keep taping. Ya think she loves the spotlight? You betcha. Cash in, Rupert! Get her signed fast!

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  309. Intenational Man of Parody is back to beclown himself, yet again.

    JD (14288f)

  310. DCSCA, I provided a response to you that considered your earlier points. Why not join the discussion instead of just being… like that?

    Juan (bd4b30)

  311. Thanks for that link, AD

    carlitos (730478)

  312. happyfeet,

    The initial GOP Presidential primaries will be about money and organization, not debates, and my guess is the frontrunners in those areas will be Romney, Palin, and maybe Giuliani. (Before Palin resigned, I would have said Romney had a clear advantage and Giuliani had a chance, but now Palin has an opportunity to raise funds and make connections.) That doesn’t mean others can’t compete but I think it will be more difficult.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  313. I just found KittyKat’s comment #271 (7/8/2009 @ 11:16 am) in the filter. From that comment:

    Egads, man. That train has already left the station. The “next generation,” has made its choice and it was a decisive historic vote against the GOP and its failed policies, manifested in the form of a man we now call President Barack Obama. A poor kid who came from nothing and through his own intelligence and abilites is where he is now.

    Palin on the other hand has become a lint trap for racists, white supremists, homophobes, warmongers,sour losers and almost anyone who’s unwilling to take responsibility for the failings in his or her own life so they need to have a scapegoat.

    Do you actually believe you’re open-minded? Sadly, I bet you do.

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  314. I think just Palin and Romney and Huckabee are for sure so far but based on what I saw this week I think there’s depressingly little doubt that Palin can have the noomination if she wants it. Have y’all thought about how hard Barack Obama’s dirty socialist media will work to ensure she gets the nod? I have, and it makes me sigh the sigh of a thousand Peggy Noonans it does.

    Bush I loved cause of he was brave and he was true and he was my president.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  315. I hope nobody lost monies

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  316. *nomination* I mean oops I forgot my cell somewheres back later

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  317. I’d like her more if she really was on the ‘murder child rapists’ platform

    happyfeet’s argument makes itself. To some extent, it is not cool to like her. Some people are associating her with racism and ‘sore losers’, which is rich since before Obama, the left was having a hard time winning or being nice about losing.

    “Sigh of a thousand Peggy Noonans.” That’s hilarious.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  318. DRJ – too true. I thought all the white supremists and sour losers were Ron Paul supporters?

    carlitos (730478)

  319. The simple fact is that people like pussypussy and its ilk will make that exact same lie no matter who the Republicans nominate. Let me repeat, they will make the exact same smears no matter who the Republicans nominate.

    JD (3138f3)

  320. Do you actually believe you’re open-minded? Sadly, I bet you do.

    Hey, not only did she attract those elements, she happily stoked and encouraged their ignorance and prejudices and violent shout outs when she was campaigning. IF that’s open-minded and responsible and dignified and respectable, than I guess I’m not any of those things.

    No matter what her ultimate plans are there is one thing Palin will most certainly do:

    Use her high profile to raise money for other GOP politicians.

    And I give it no time at all before most of those GOP politicians, the ones who don’t want to become associated with the UFO/White Rights/truthers/TeaBag/birther/endtimes/ObamaisaTerrorist
    whackos, begin saying “Sarah, thanks, but no thanks…stay away from my campaign.”

    7 out of 10 Republican’s would still vote for her, but only 21% of the population (see above for list) identify themselves as Republicans at this time.

    Truly, as David Brooks said, She is a “Cancer” on the Republican Party.

    KittyKat (7ee55a)

  321. I love it when I get an “I told you so moment” so quickly. Just another drive-by spewing hate, anger, and venom.

    JD (3138f3)

  322. Wow. You had me at bad grammar, syntax and spelling. Quoting David Brooks is too much! Will you marry me? Have you ever smelled Rush Limbaugh in the pale moonlight?

    carlitos (730478)

  323. DRJ – Sadly, there is no doubt that it considers itself an open-minded endlightened one.

    JD (3138f3)

  324. Comment by JD — 7/8/2009 @ 4:06 pm

    You know JD, along those lines, I was a product of CA’s Progressive (Hiram Johnson) tradition, and considered the Jim Crow of the South (and its’ existence in other areas in lessor degrees) as completely inhumane, and not worthy of Ladies and Gentlemen.
    Then, I supported Barry in ’64, and was told I was a segregationist since Barry voted against the Civil Rights Act of ’64 (on Libertarian grounds, I might add); then as an activist for the GOP under first Nixon and Reagan, I was constantly derided as an unfeeling, right-wing, hate-monger, who wished to oppress minorities.
    In any case, at least in the beginning, I was not any of these – but after all of the accussations and bile:
    Hell, why not!
    Be a Progressive, 50’s GOP, pro-Civil-Rights individual: Racist!
    Be Orval Faubus or George Wallace: Racist!
    Doesn’t seem to be any middle ground there.
    I might not be Bull Conner, but you’re not going to get anything from me you haven’t earned – both good and bad!
    So, call me what you want. Whatever it is will reflect more of your inner feelings than mine, of that I’m confident.
    So, whatever Sarah Palin does, if she does nothing else but go around the country meeting the people of “Main Street”, it will be more and more difficult for the MSM to demonize her as real people see who she actually is.
    If she could go to one meeting of every “Rotary” club in the country over the next two – three years, she would win in a land-slide.

    AD - RtR/OS! (685f75)

  325. PussPuss skipped over the new Gallop Poll number of self-identified conservatives:

    Talk about an inconvenient truth.

    AD - RtR/OS! (685f75)

  326. AD – Cries from the Dems and clowns like pussypussy of racism, etc … will exist because somebody will oppose them. It is one of their primary arrows in their quiver, along with giving people other people’s money, and the Eternal Leftist Conceit, that they are better people because they care more.

    JD (3138f3)

  327. Somehow, I think we lost a great deal of social accountability when we outlawed dueling.

    AD - RtR/OS! (685f75)

  328. As long as she’s around the GOP is going to fall into greater and greater (if that’s possible) irrelevance and disarray.

    Actually, if a fair percentage of Americans are less foolish than their counterparts in otherwise quite leftwing, uber-socialized Europe are (eg, Great Britain), and haven’t lost all signs of sanity and common sense, they may realize that liberalism (“I love the Democrat Party! It nurtures such caring, wonderful, generous human beings!!!”) not only isn’t worth a damn when it comes to logic, it’s not even worth a damn when it comes to making people and societies truly more humane, civilized and compassionate.,

    Republicans Remain Ahead on Generic Ballot
    July 07, 2009

    Republican candidates lead Democrats for the second straight week in the latest edition of the Generic Congressional Ballot. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 41% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 38% would choose the Democratic candidate.

    Bloomberg, July 9:

    [British Prime Minister Gordon] Brown’s Labour Party has the support of 25 percent of voters, compared with 38 percent for David Cameron’s Conservatives, according to a YouGov/Telegraph survey on June 25. The poll showed the Conservatives extended their lead from seven points in December. U.K. parliamentary rules require Brown to call a general election by June of 2010.

    George Will, March 2008:

    Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published “Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism.” The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than conservatives.

    If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:

    •Although liberal families’ incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

    •Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

    •Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George W. Bush.

    •Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

    •In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

    •People who reject the idea that “government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality” give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

    Mark (411533)

  329. If conservatives reel in their charity givings then a dirty socialist dominated society will become even more unpleasant than it already is, which will be even worser than it is now.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  330. Truly, as David Brooks said, She is a “Cancer” on the Republican Party.

    No, she’s not. Her birthday is February 11th. That makes her an Aquarius on the Republican Party.

    Steverino (69d941)

  331. David Brooks has a pretty mouf.

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  332. Did you find your cell phone, happyfeet?

    DRJ (6f3f43)

  333. yes – thank you – found it down the street – long story but I’m waiting for my new giorgio armani trendy yet somehow uniquely me rectangle glasses to come in and meanwhile I’m kind of blind cause the spare pair I have are stupid weak – they were just for the computer – so anyway I’ve been losing things for going on a week now…

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  334. Happyfeet – Make sure you have my cell phone number before you leave for Chicago.

    JD (3138f3)

  335. got it

    happyfeet (e8d590)

  336. #311- your comments in #285: It’s a lengthy ran bit I’ll boil it dow to this one:

    How Americans see Palin is entirely up to Palin. No, it’s not, unless she hired on at Fox News and does a show like Limbaugh’s.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  337. The International Man of Parody returns to his roots – as a stalker of Limbaugh and Fox News.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  338. Oh. No it’s not.

    Ok then. My mistake.

    Juan (bd4b30)

  339. Ace has apologized for his behavior regarding this matter which demonstrates he is a bigger man than most. Dropping the smoking habbit can drive you crazy.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  340. […] of sarah have even closely reached the nutcase levels of paultards, i am concerned that some of the discourse this past week in defense of her, not just here at my blog but all across the blogosphere, has […]

    no palinbots, please | Blatherings Blog (5df32d)

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