No Hot Dogs For Iranians
[Guest post by DRJ]
Press Secretary Robert Gibbs announced today that the Obama Administration has withdrawn invitations to Iranian diplomats to attend July 4th celebrations at U.S. embassies:
“July Fourth allows us to celebrate the freedom and the liberty we enjoy,” White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. “Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion. Freedom to assemble peacefully. Freedom of the press. So I don’t think it’s surprising that nobody’s signed up to come.”
Gibbs added: “Given the events of the past many days, those invitations will no longer be extended.”
As alluded to in Gibbs’ statement, the Washington Post reports that “U.S. officials said no Iranian diplomats thus far had responded to the invitations.” In light of Obama’s statement yesterday that it was up to the Iranians to decide if they would attend the festivities, it sounds like this is more about the Administration trying to save face than acting out of principle.
H/T SPQR.
— DRJ
UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Remember, Obama has been “perfectly consistent” on this issue.
Stashiu3 has similar thoughts but Dana adds another perspective.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:01 pm“In light of Obama’s statement yesterday that it was up to the Iranians to decide if they would attend the festivities, it sounds like this is more about the Administration trying to save face than acting out of principle.”
– DRJ
To be fair, “It’s up to the Iranians to decide if they will attend the festivities” could mean “The Iranians need to stop beating and killing people in the streets if they want to attend the festivities.”
But probably not.
Leviticus (20b7ac) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:03 pmWhat this administration wants is “pragmatic” and “principled”. Because they want it. That’s the definition. No conventional definitions apply. Everything is subject to change and “falling on your sword” is an archaic concept reserved for less-enlightened people. The enlightened administration we have now is dedicated to throwing subordinates and strawmen onto swords, then denying that it ever happened.
Look! A puppy!
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:08 pmLeviticus,
I’d like to think that’s what Obama meant, too.
Lawyers can get so wrapped up in words that they end up saying things like “It depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is.” As a lawyer, I can understand how this happens — word skills are important to our profession — but it’s so much better to be willing to take a firm position and use those skills to clearly state a position.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:10 pmAnd yet, it seems pretty clear to be a pathetic attempt to save face.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:12 pmI haven’t seen any behaviors or actions of this administration that would warrant them being given the benefit of the doubt, Leviticus. To the contrary. One can only take a firm position if one has a firm position. From the get-go, it has been apparent in the Iran matter that it’s been more of a squishy-state-of-flux position.
Dana (8d88ef) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:16 pmAll of his words vease having meaning the moment they are uttered.
JD (547c14) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:17 pm“What message does it send to our allies and enemies in the world at large? Here we are, the Great Satan,, and we invite this enemy onto our soil to celebrate our Independence Day?”–Dana
“Yes. Mature superpowers that could obliterate Iran and vaporize its people in 30 minutes do that.”–DSCSA
Poor DSCSA…shot down in flames by the ever-shifting policies of the New Messiah.
Dave Surls (5c9751) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:20 pmWhen set against a fluid and changing situation in Iran, it is clearly a card well played by the Obama Administration. Especially as Iranian officials had not responded, which is a response in itself. An interface of minimal diplomatic importance is withdrawn while enhancing the value placed on the celebration of American freedoms. Most definitely a card well played, sir!
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:22 pmDCSCA parodies himself.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:22 pm#8- They didnt respond. Events transpired. Invites withdrawn. Well played. Senator Ensign and Governor Sandford world agree. The story should eat up a few columns of newsprint.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:25 pmThere is literally nothing President Obama can do that won’t elicit a “well-played” from DCSCA. It’s rather sickening and I will now join DRJ in ignoring him as much as possible.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:26 pmThat had to be someone doing a parody of ASPCA
JD (547c14) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:27 pmDCSCA,
Two thoughts:
First, there are limits to how fluid and changing U.S. foreign policy should be. At some point it ceases to be a policy and becomes chaos.
Second, Obama has put his supporters in a hole that is getting very big. Quit digging.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:28 pmOne of my really anal quirks is that I hate it when people refer to Independence Day as the Fourth of July. It’s akin to referring to Christmas as December 25 — it turns the holiday into a simple day on the calendar and obscures exactly what we are supposed to be celebrating. I know I probably need therapy to get over this, but it just bugs me.
JVW (2cd0a9) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:29 pmOkay, I’ll ignore him more than DRJ. 😉
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:30 pmit is clearly a card well played by the Obama Administration.
Oh good grief !
I understand they may auction off a pair of his underpants on eBay one of these days. Have you put in a bid yet ? Just in case ?
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:30 pmbut it’s so much better to be willing to take a firm position and use those skills to clearly state a position. Uh, I believe President Obama did just that by stating he is the President of the United States and not a slave to a 24 hour news cycle or suffering fools like Senators McCain and shadow Graham gladly. Why conservatives expect Iran to collapse in a week is perplexing. The crack in the foundation is clearly visible now. The place will tumble down soon enough by the hands of Iran’s own.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:31 pmDCSCA has to be intentionally parodying himself.
There is no other explanation for the vapid syncophantic nonsense. Well played? Well played for being ridiculed maybe.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:35 pmTo be fair, “It’s up to the Iranians to decide if they will attend the festivities” could mean “The Iranians need to stop beating and killing people in the streets if they want to attend the festivities.”
Shouldn’t that ship have sailed days ago?
MayBee (6b436a) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:35 pmTruly, if they’d stopped beating people in the streets yesterday, would it be ok for them to attend the festivities now?
DCSCA,
You say the situation in Iran is “fluid and changing” and that Obama has responded in kind. You can’t say that and also claim Obama has been “willing to take a firm position.”
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:35 pmThe crack in the foundation is clearly visible now. The place will tumble down soon enough by the hands of Iran’s own.
Yeah, just like Hungary in 1956. It only took, what, thirty-five years for that revolution to come to fruition.
JVW (2cd0a9) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:38 pm#14- First, there are limits to how fluid and changing U.S. foreign policy should be. At some point it ceases to be a policy and becomes chaos. Clearly we disagree on this point. If you’ve been an advocate of the ‘cowboy diplomacy’ of the past decade and advocate a ‘bring it on’ unilateral approach, a week is too long for anything.
Second, Obama has put his supporters in a hole that is getting very big. Quit digging. Compared to the dry holes drilled by the short-fused swaggar of the previous administration, this may seem so. But to advocates of a tactful, flexible, nuianced, multilateral foreign policy, it’s a hole-in-one.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:38 pmOkay, DCSCA, keep digging all you want. At least it may help Leviticus understand Patterico’s earlier post.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:41 pmSure it can, DRJ. It just has to suspend reality.
BTW – I get to eat dinner with happyfeet tonite 😉
JD (547c14) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:41 pmFirst Scott and now happyfeet? JD, we’d all like to have dinner with you. In fact, you may be the most popular guy on this blog.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:42 pm#22- Hmmm. Impatiences is a conservative vice. Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and so on. Still, check a map and see if you find the Soviet Union and their satellite states today. Iran will fall under its own weight. It doesnt need another shove from the United States.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:43 pmYet more evidence that DCSCA is unserious and a troll.
Given that in another thread, DCSCA was claiming that the Cold War was the equivalent of war, then the silliness of his comments above, asserting that Iran will fall “under its own weight” like Hungary, Czechoslovakia “and so on” is shown for the ignorant flatulence that it is.
Or the intentional parody that DCSCA has plainly become.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:49 pmAs to the reversal on the July 4 celebrations, I think that someone showed Obama a videotape of his answer on the issue to show just how stupid his answer looked on national TV.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:52 pmthe principals of this administration have no principles.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:53 pmWhen a POTUS has no CONVICTIONS he is constantly reacting to circumstances.
At first, it can be confused with “Patience” but after a while people realize it is called a “Ethically Empty Front Runner.”
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 2:56 pm“When set against a fluid and changing situation in Iran, it is clearly a card well played by the Obama Administration…”
The situation is the same as it was in the 1980’s. Iran is our enemy and the Iranian government is a bloodthirsty tyranny at home, and a state sponsor of terrorism abroad.
The only thing that is fluid is Obama’s ever-changing policies.
Yesterday you were spewing about the great wisdom of inviting the delegates of said tyranny over for some Independence Day barbecue, today you’re singing a different tune.
Spinning like a top…just like your New Messiah is doing.
Dave Surls (5c9751) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:02 pmDRJ – I just travel a lot, so I have many opportunities.
We shall now refer to the serial fabulist as IMP, or International Man of Parody.
JD (547c14) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:02 pm#21- “Yes we can.”
You know, in 1927, when Lindbergh was in the process of having the Spirit of St. Louis constructed, he was aware that one of the main reasons airplanes of that era kept crashing was not because of mechanical engine failure, but because the oil lines, which were designed as rigid piping, kept cracking causing leaks and forcing the planes down. Lindbergh asked that the oil lines in his plane be cut every few inches and reconnected with a series of sealed rubber tubing, in effect crafting a flexible oil line that withstood vibrations and heating for the 33 1/2 hours he needed to carry him to Paris.
Flexible, reliable and firmly confident in his analysis. I’m confident President Obama has thought this through with equal analysis. You are not. So we disagree. But the majority of Americans support his approach to Iran. So do I.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:02 pmHmmm. Impatiences is a conservative vice. Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and so on.
Obama can appoint you to be the one to tell the Iranian people that they have to suffer under this oppressive rule for only a generation and a half longer. I am sure they will be overjoyed with the news.
JVW (2cd0a9) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:20 pmGreat advice you gave Lindbergh DCSCA. I’m sure he appreciated it.
What happened to the great importance of these subtle acts of diplomacy you were trumpeting yesterday? Oh, I forgot, that was yesterday and before Obama flip flopped.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:21 pmComment (3:02 pm) — Obama may very well be Charles Lindbergh in your scenario. On the other hand, he may be Amelia Earhart.
JVW (2cd0a9) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:22 pmDRJ – This might be the big tipping point to which Tim McGarry was prereferring on that earlier thread, the collapse of weenie diplomacy.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:23 pmIf Obama had thought anything through, he would not be changing policies just hours after justifying them on national TV.
International Man of Parody.
I like it JD.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:24 pmDCSCA, about that barbeque…you declined to debate in good faith regarding the wisdom of the extending the invitation in the first place and answering specific questions in response to your declarations, and now here you are defending the administration’s rescinding of it. You can’t have it both ways. Here at this post, comment #154.
Dana (8d88ef) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:28 pmI believe President Obama did just that by stating he is the President of the United States
He is? I had no idea! Well played!
You know, in 1927, when Lindbergh was in the process of having the Spirit of St. Louis constructed,
Were you his forgotten sidekick on his historic flight, then?
Lindbergh asked that the oil lines in his plane be cut every few inches
And you know this because you were there!
that withstood vibrations and heating for the 33 1/2 hours he needed to carry him to Paris.
Wait, does that mean that you were secretely hidden in the cockpit, between his legs? Lucky Lindy!
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:39 pmToo little, too late, Obama administration.
Harvey M Anderson (a664fb) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:39 pmDana, when confronted by hypocrisy, and making the statement “you can’t have it both ways,” get ready for that goofy mantra during the election:
And yes they do. At least for now.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:42 pmThis might be the big tipping point to which Tim McGarry was prereferring on that earlier thread
You’re referring to Tim’s many non – answers to repeated queries as to the specifics of his “tipping point,” I presume. I seem to recall that he said “good night” after many non – responses, then promptly draped himself on the cross.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:42 pmUm.
Based on what poll, precisely? I mean, I know there is a Fox poll suggesting that 66% of Americans think that the President needs to be tougher on Iran, but I realize that the Left doesn’t believe polls that don’t agree with Teh Narrative.
Eric Blair (0b61b2) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:46 pmDmac – He agreed to try to date DRJ’s position and mailed in a pitiful attempt. I think he’s in hiding now.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:46 pmI’m sure Lindbergh took DC’s advice and,as a result, the plane made a funny sound, something like “tapocketa, tapocketa, tapocketa.”
There is an interesting bit about that.
Notably, most if not all of the other contestants for the Orteig Prize, including Byrd, flew aircraft equipped with J-5Cs. On the NYP plane, the engine connected directly to the frame without any kind of shock mounts. According to Cassagneres, this aspect of the design did not particularly trouble Lindbergh, who was used to a little vibration, but another did: the use of long continuous tubes for fuel and oil lines. Aware that such components could be subject to damage from expansion, contraction, and vibration, he insisted they be constructed out of segmented tubes. The concept was apparently not a new one, but its use on Lindy’s plane later helped cement it as a standard construction practice throughout the aviation industry.
Maybe Obama’s great grandfather designed the first transKenya plane and used segmented tubes.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:48 pmrestate DRJ’s position
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:50 pm#40- Uh, yes we can. The Iranians did not respond. Events transpired in a fluid situation. The invitations were recinded, enhancing American values. A card well played by the Obama Administration. I suggest conservatives spend more time cleaning house of their own ‘infidels’ and their ‘infidelities’ and let President Obama handle matters of state in adult fashion.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 3:58 pmThey DID NOT withdraw the invitation. The Iranians snubbed it.
Obama shot himself in his big flat foot. By Jove, good shot, sir!
Glen Wishard (02562c) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:00 pm“you can’t have it both ways,”
We have received absolutely no evidence that DCSCA does not get it both ways.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:00 pmMy thought was:
“Nobody RSVP’d so we’ll cancel the party”
Rather than a principled retraction of the invitations…
kimsch (2ce939) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:00 pm“The Iranians did not respond.”
What was the RSVP date? Check your invitation and let us know.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:02 pmJust make sure, DCSCA, that you get the floppy shoes and the big red rubber nose back to the rental store on time.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:05 pm“Flexible, reliable and firmly confident…”
Flexible = spineless
reliable = can be relied upon to be wrong about pretty much everything
firmly confident = clueless, but will waver if people scream in outrage over his idiotic policies
That’s our president.
Lefties make total sense, as long as you have a translator handy.
Dave Surls (5c9751) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:07 pm““But the majority of Americans support his approach to Iran.”
Based on what poll, precisely?”
Eric – I asked the nimrod to back up a similar statement last night and nothing was forthcoming. I think it’s a complete asspull as is most of what he says here. Given the decline in Obama’s poll ratings on specific topics, that Fox number does not surprise me at all.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:09 pmDCSCA is, without a doubt, the funniest person who posts on this — or any other — blog I hope it’s intentional, otherwise he deserves our pity.
As a matter of fact, I have doubts that the current DCSCA is the same one who first started posting here.
Ag80 (c5ca43) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:10 pmAfter the barbecue, Obama will be celebrating the Fourth of July by watching the fireworks, which will be provided this year by North Korea.
Official Internet Data Office (eb7e9e) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:12 pmAdult? It was more like something a 3rd grader would do: “If you’re not coming, then I’m not inviting you anymore!”
The fact that you’re not embarassed by this invitation/retraction just shows your own lack of honesty.
Steverino (69d941) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:13 pm“I dumped him first.”
PATHETIC.
Our teen prez shows his (lack of) depth again.
Patricia (2183bb) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:16 pmActually, OIDO, I had heard they were coming driving a VBIED but made the mistake of taking a test drive. Oops ! No RSVP for DCSCA.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:19 pm“But the majority of Americans support his approach to Iran.”
I don’t know if you are correct or not, but the fact that the PRESIDENT doesn’t seem to support his own approach is telling.
Sean P (e57269) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:52 pmDCSCA,
Your Obama-Lindbergh comparison is interesting. I don’t know much about Lindbergh’s modifications to his plane’s oil/fuel lines but, assuming it’s as you state, I commend him for making those changes. I also assume his modifications were based on dozens or even hundreds of hours of flying time, as well as significant experience with aircraft and distance flight.
Thus, please explain how your comparison applies to Obama’s foreign policy exploits. Obama has no foreign policy experience and no background in foreign policy research or studies, so it’s fair to say he’s on his first solo and flying by the seat of his pants. Even Lucky Lindy would never have tried that.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 4:55 pmNicely played DRJ!
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 5:01 pmSomething just got barbecued, and I don’t think it is hotdogs.
Nice analogy, DRJ!
Pons Asinorum (b26ed0) — 6/24/2009 @ 5:11 pm#37- Indeed. But then Lindy was well-served and properly prepared. Earhart was ill-served and improperly prepared. I believe President Obama will safely navigate through the situation.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 6:20 pmThe “barbecue” invitation was extended before the election in Iran (I am not sure exactly when, but at least a few weeks ago, I assume). If any of you have memory, there was an euphoric build up of “hope & change” in Iran at that point, hundreds of thousands of people rallying in support of Moussavi and hints of a vibrant democratic process, although obviously not as democratic as we’d all like.
At that point, no matter who eventually won the elections, the barbecue would make sense, IMO. And by now we’d have known if the elected president of Iran would or not have accepted the invitation.
With the bloody repression that followed, the invitation has been cancelled. What is wrong with that?
Notice that the strategy was: if, after a legitimate election, Iran accepted the invitation, good; if Iran declined it, it would show to the world that it was actively rejecting an opening for negotiations, further weakening its own position. The mess of the post-election cruelty forced the WH to cancel it.
oderfla (22a589) — 6/24/2009 @ 6:21 pmoderfla,
Iran has never had a respectable election, so no.
Juan (bd4b30) — 6/24/2009 @ 6:26 pm#24- And you keep shovelling. Perhaps we’ll met in the middle one day. But I want my President to succeed. Conservatives, the distinct minority these days, want him to fail. And that’s tragic not only for the GOP but for Iran as well. Given the implosions of Ensign and Sanford, a little less dirt and a little more dirt busting might be in order in the GOP.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 6:29 pmdcsca thinks sanford’s affair is relevant to iran!
maybe he should just moveon.org
Oh, and polls indicate a resurgence in conservatism… it’s the largest bloc of voters now, thanks to Obama’s failure.
Juan (bd4b30) — 6/24/2009 @ 6:46 pmNot that it matters at all what the politics are. That DCSCA, Obama, and others think Iran is an acceptable topic to play political games with is pretty disgusting.
Iranians are begging for more out of Obama. Obama says he will wait and see how it plays out. He had to have intense internal negotiations before calling off some stupid hot dog thing, and that’s supposed to be evidence he’s ‘doing something’.
We need support for the people of Iran. We all know what that means. Not troops, but at the very least some strong statements. Obama could fly to Baghdad right now and give a speech about how Iraq has found the way forward and Iran will to. He could demand that the mullahs give up their theocracy. He could turn this into the argument it needs to be: Islam vs freedom. That’s what this entire war on terror is about. At the very least, a consistent line of statements that keep the pressure on. Or better: some supplies. Medical supplies, food, internet supplies. If needed, AKs and IEDs. Iran is our enemy in a way today, and has happily killed our troops with the same.
Instead, Obama is playing games. ‘You’re not coming? Then you’re not invited’ ‘terrorism is now called man made disasters’. Endless bull like that as Iranians are butchered. This would not have happened if Bush was in power.
DSCSA is a great example of what’s going on. his concern is to talk about how the Democratic party is going to win elections. That’s all that matters to him.
Juan (bd4b30) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:00 pmDCSCA, the hypocrisy of your #69 given your spewing of BDS nonsense during Bush administration shows only that you are indeed a joke.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:04 pm#63- Obama has no foreign policy experience and no background in foreign policy research or studies, so it’s fair to say he’s on his first solo and flying by the seat of his pants. Even Lucky Lindy would never have tried that.
Uh, actually, ‘Lucky Lindy’ did. It was seat of the pants flying when Lindbergh set off across the Atlantic as essentially used dead reckoning for navigation and allowed for flexibility in his plans by changing course when wind, waves and timing called for it. He had confidence in his judgement and skills. So does President Obama. And so do the majority of Americans.
But really… “exploits??” A flippant term more easily associated with the previous president in Iraq and his predecessor with an intern. No experience? No study? Well, I simply disagree with your premise, again, particularly compared to his predecessor. President Obama has shown the capacity articulate clearly and to think things through. His predecessor most certainly did not.
We simply will have to agree to disagree on the competence of the President. But I want him to succeed. Conservatives do not. Which is tragic.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:19 pmA card well played by the Obama Administration.
Why exactly was extending and then rescinding the invite several days later a card well played? What did it accomplish? You haven’t explained that. Not that I take anything you say seriously. I would not be surprised if you said Sarah Palin has egg on her face over this situation.
Gerald A (38f566) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:22 pm#47- Keep working on that bedside manner, Doc.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:23 pmI want him to succeed. Conservatives do not.
As evidenced by what? Does it have something to do with Sarah Palin?
Gerald A (38f566) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:24 pm#67- You’re wasting your time. They want him to fail.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:25 pmGood try, DCSCA, but at least Lindbergh had actually flown before.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:27 pm#71, were you, in any way, outraged when people were massacred in Darfur? How about outrage at people – civilians, just like Neda – being massacred by US in Iraq? Oh, I see. People in Darfur are a little darker than us, so they don’t count. And Iraqis are just kind of internet-deprived and don’t know what twitter is, so we don’t get to see videos and photos of the results of US’s attacks in there, so we can’t feel outraged.
What was the action taken when the Tiananmen Square massacre happened? Condemnation but, oh, we can’t break the commercial ties with China.
How many people were massacred by the Shah, our pet puppet? Do you want to put another “good tyrant” in Iran?
oderfla (54581b) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:28 pmDCSCA,
I want Obama to succeed, but he won’t succeed as long as he persists in making empathy and personal diplomacy the touchstones of his foreign policy plans.
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:30 pmSo how was keeping the invite open for several days while the violence escalated accomplish? How was it a card well played genius? Why don’t you explain it instead of just repeating it like some advert for beer?
Also how is criticism of O for keeping the invite open evidence that conservatives want him to fail?
Also do you see Sarah Palin being at fault here?
We’re awaiting explanations.
Gerald A (38f566) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:36 pmCite two examples of such acts, or stfu.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:43 pmObama has never heled a job other than community organizer. Adjunct professors, as Obama was, are part time and often unpaid.
If any of you have memory, there was an euphoric build up of “hope & change” in Iran at that point
That was in your own mind. The fourth of July invitations were a terrible idea and evidence of incompetence in foreign affairs.
The stuff about Lingbergh is more evidence of DC’s silly attemnpts to look like s wise person with lots of experience. Flexible fuel lines were used in WWI airplanes.
We know that DC will make any silly statement to make obesience to Obama. What is odd is why he insists on doing it here where nearly all of us are highly skeptical of Obama. Maybe it’s a bit like Jehovah’s Witnesses going door to door to try to convert people. I once, many years ago, invited one in to tell me about the religion because I wanted to see what she said. She spent an hour telling me and I thanked her and sent her on her way. I’ve done the same with kids on Mormon missionary visits.
Anyway, the next Sunday she was back. I thanked her and said I had already heard what she had to say and I didn’t want to hear it again. I think I may have been the only person ever to invite her in. I think that’s what we may have with the trolls. Especially, DCSCA.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:43 pm#79
What’s the parallel between Darfur and Iran? Did Bush invite the Somali diplomats over for hot dogs? What is your point?
Gerald A (38f566) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:45 pmI can’t figure out oderfla’s point other than some hybrid of “You do it too” and “Everything is your fault”.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/24/2009 @ 7:50 pmHow about outrage at people – civilians, just like Neda – being massacred by US in Iraq?
Oh, brother. You’re not one of those “progressives” who is more annoyed by George Bush and the US military than by Sadaam Hussein and his, for example, feeding people through plastic shredders?
If that’s how you feel about the world, fine. But please don’t think your ideology is somehow resting on a sea of humaneness and compassion.
Mark (411533) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:02 pmFrom the AP of all places.
“SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days.”
What kind of President puts up with this? Obama is what my clients in prison would call a f__kboy.
nk (d78a32) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:06 pmAs usual, Ramirez nails it. The LA Times lost me when they dropped him.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:16 pm#82, How about this link, for starters? Or you think the US has not killed at least two civilians in Iraq?
#83, so the “euphoric build up” existed only in my mind? Ok, thanks for letting me know my imagination is sooo rich. BTW, to refresh your ideas, a link from two days before the election (two weeks ago): “This is like a revolution, people are excited about rescuing our country from a calamity it’s been in for the last four years“.
#84, the parallel is that people were/are massacred by their own government in both cases and you are all outraged that our president is not doing enough, but where was the outrage when Bush was in power? And the massacres in Darfur were orders of magnitude larger. Also Tiananmen.
#85, I just want people here to acknowledge that the US has done nothing in the past while far worse massacres were happening, so what is different now?
oderfla (54581b) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:28 pm“#85, I just want people here to acknowledge that the US has done nothing in the past while far worse massacres were happening, so what is different now?”
People were pretty pissed off at Clinton over Rwanda if you remember that party.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:34 pm#86, I am outraged at both. While Saddam shredded his own people, US military exploded them to rid the country of Saddam. Is that a more… sanitized way to butcher, so it is ok? I agree that it was “collateral damage”, that the people themselves were not the targets, but there is nothing noble about killing tens of thousands of civilians in any foreign country.
oderfla (54581b) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:36 pm#90. 100% agreed! I absolutely agree that Clinton’s omission in Rwanda was despicable!
oderfla (54581b) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:39 pmWell, oderfla, what kept you from waving your magic wand, or sprinkling your pixie dust, over Iraq, to stop Saddam’s butchery, so we would not need to use our cruel and barbaric methods?
nk (d78a32) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:45 pm“Cite two examples of such acts, or stfu.”
– Scott Jacobs
My first instinct was to go out and cite two examples, but I realized that that would be missing the point: the point is the difference between “such acts” happening, as a matter of independent individual action (i.e. something like Haditha, although the charges were dropped), and such acts being condoned – nay, encouraged, as a matter of policy, by a government. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out which of those is worse, which is why the “What about the US in Iraq” thing was silly in the first place.
Leviticus (b2057b) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:46 pm“How many people were massacred by the Shah, our pet puppet?”
Professor R.J. Rummel of the University of Hawaii estimates that between 14,000 and 19,000 people were murdered by the Shah’s regime from 1954 to 1979.
He also estimates that between 36,000 and 91,000 people were murdered by the mad mullahs from 1979 to 1987. No figures for people murdered by the mullahs in Iran after 1987.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF
So, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
We did business with the Shah, and so did everyone else.
Most countries do business with the mad mullahs. We don’t do to much business with them.
So…what’s your point exactly?
Dave Surls (26f76e) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:52 pm“North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map”
Antelope threatens to kill and eat lion.
Dave Surls (26f76e) — 6/24/2009 @ 8:56 pm“Obama has never heled a job other than community organizer.”
Wasn’t he a lawyer for some time?
imdw (490521) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:04 pmSee, that’s why I like you…
You got the point. 🙂
Not that he ever really talked about…
He was a councilman and a state senator for a lil while, though…
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:12 pm“Not that he ever really talked about…”
Not sure why that matters. I didn’t read his books, so I don’t know what he’s talked about in terms of his life. I think he met michelle while at a law firm. Not sure he never talked about that.
imdw (a8737f) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:18 pmOk, I drop the comparison with US collateral damage in Iraq.
But not Darfur, Tiananmen, Rwanda, and the Shah. I think there are two explanations for the outrage seen in this blog: (1) A dem is president, and (2) we see movies, photos, and hear their voices, and get their “twits” live from the carnage, so there is much more empathy for them (if I’m allowed to use that word).
If we could have the same multimedia stream from Darfur, Rwanda, and Tiananmen, dwellers of this blog would be similarly outraged (provided that a dem were president, of course).
oderfla (54581b) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:26 pmYesterday when asked directly if the Iranians were still invited to the weenie roast Obama lectured on and on about how we don’t have official diplomatic relations, no embassy….. blah blah blah like as if we don’t know.
Obama was a young teen when diplomatic relations with the USA were preemptively severed by Iranian revolutionaries including Ahmadinejad and Mousavi but the WH Press corps doesn’t need a lecture bringing them up to speed on something anyone who can read a newspaper should know. My feeling on that was that President Obama was repeating something he’d just now learned.
I have to look at this and admit that my President is behind the curve. I’d like him to succeed here, but when is he gonna grow the spine, gain the knowledge, to get out in front of international issues.
By the way.
Secretary of State Clinton?
MIA
If I was her I’d resign and try to salvage my reputation and dignity before it is too late
SteveG (c99c5c) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:28 pm#87- “SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days.”
What kind of President puts up with this? Obama is what my clients in prison would call a f__kboy. =yawn= Your clients in prison might do better to not waste time calling the CIC a f–kboy, but calling another attorney instead– one who’d have kept them out of jail. Clearly this is nothing more than North Korea crying, “Daddy, daddy!!! Iran is getting all the attention!” If Iran and North Korea were side by side in thr backseat of the car, a fight might breakout.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:30 pmOderfla, #99.
I am reading your posts but finding little sense in the comparisons.
Rawanda was during 1) Democratic President to start, 2) Little Media Coverage and no Internet, 3) What Gov.t were we to speak too about this????
Tianaman 1) There was outrage, 2) Georgie Bushie pie was eerily similar to Obama in his softie, UN Foreign Policy and 3) China is not a state sponsor of terrorism — maybe not the best neighbor but not exporting nonsense in 1989
Darfur, much like Rawanda, 1) No real Gov.t to hold accountable, 2) Undeveloped part of the world with little media, and 3) Given Iraq, exactly what did you expect the US Gov.t to do.
Liberals always love the wars we don’t fight and hate the ones we do …
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:37 pm#71-
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:37 pmDSCSADCSCA is a great example of what’s going on. his concern is to talk about how the Democratic party is going to win elections. That’s all that matters to him. I could go Lombardi on you and quip winning isnt everything but the only thing, but given the implosions by two rising stars in the GOP of late (Ensign and Sanford among others) I’d suggest you police your own party on the matter of winning future elections. A healthy two party system is important and I’d like to see a strong, sane, moderate Republican challenger. These days, the GOP looks decidely sick.#15- No doubt the creation of President’s Day has driven you insane.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:39 pmWhile Saddam shredded his own people, US military exploded them to rid the country of Saddam.
Makes me think of all the liberals out there who wail “oh, we can’t have capital punishment because one innocent person, one otherwise beautiful human being out of thousands — out of millions of otherwise hardened criminals — may be wrongly accused and sentenced to the gas chamber or death by lethal injection. Oh, the horror. Oh, the shame!!”
Meanwhile, as convicted killers murder again behind bars, or are released back out into the public and end up hurting, maiming and killing a new batch of unsuspecting victims, or a first-time murderer unleashes horror and pain onto someone who found himself at the wrong place, at the wrong time, the same set of liberals will wail: “Oh, that’s horrible. I do feel for the victims! Honestly. But where was our society when the killer was younger and needed quality schooling, better welfare benefits, better healthcare, less brutal cops, nice subsidized low-income housing?? We all failed him!!”
Again, the main thing that drives me nuts about such leftwingers is they believe their ideology gives them a leg up in the area of compassion, love, kindness, sympathy.
Mark (411533) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:44 pmThe longer DCSA (and other Libtards) talk about Republicans being loons and the need for moderate (liberal and weak) Republicans —- the larger the landslide will be in 2010 and 2012.
Always best your competitor misunderestimate you.
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:44 pm#78- I beleive Obama had crossed the ocean before, too. Not so for his predecessor. But then, if memory serves, the Vulcans flew to Texas to school him. It’s going to be a long eight years for the Right.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:44 pm#106- Great! Your ticket has already made headlines! Ensign/Sanford in 2012! Go for it!
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:46 pmYet another Moronic Convergence – the International Man of Parody and odor. This really is remarkable.
JD (07e55f) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:52 pmDCSCA,
Are you saying Obama’s international travel or residency (as a child) qualifies as foreign policy experience?
And who are the “Vulcans” that flew to Texas?
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:57 pmI really think that they are nervous, JD. Don’t you?
Eric Blair (acade1) — 6/24/2009 @ 9:58 pmYou know, I understand that this all about slapfighting with trolls, but when DCSCA writes, about another poster:
Well, it just opens him up to questions about his current employment, and how effective he is at that job.
DCSCA, you have done this to me, to Mike K., and now nk. Others too, I’m certain. Why not give the insults a rest? Because soon people will start joking about your many prior career statements, and then you will get all puffed up in response, and lash out with more insults, and the cycle will continue.
Unless it is just about the fighting. If so, go for it. But all the personal insults are boring.
Eric Blair (acade1) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:04 pmwhere was the outrage when Bush was in power?
Why, it was in your mind. That’s where most of your life is.
Yes, Obama was a lawyer. What did he do with all that high paid education ? Who paid for it anyway ? Oh, forget that. What did he do ?
1. A failed community organizer career.
2. He took on Bobby Rush, Black Panther, and lost.
3. He got his mentors (who are they, by the way ?) to delete all the competition from the ballot in his first successful election campaign.
What was his law career like ? I can’t find much about it.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:08 pm______________________________________
#106- Great! Your ticket has already made headlines!
As I was reading the following, I was envisioning people like you, at least based on my sense that you’re rather young—although I can’t help but think that anyone who’s a “leftie” either is still in grade school or college, or is someone who never matured and certainly never gained even an ounce of new-found wisdom through the years.
______________________________________
Mark (411533) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:09 pmEric, I see no purpose in their presence here but insults and mindless Obama licking.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:09 pm111- Unlike GHWB, President Obama, among other events in his personal life, travelled in a professional capacity overseas and demostrated a curiosity for the world his predecessor lacked. It’s a cinch he’s surrounded with wiser people than his predecessor as well, who rejected much of the seasoned council from his own father’s prediency. I’ll leave it to you to research the ‘Vulcans’ and their education of W.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:15 pmObama traveled the world and is curious?
Bull shat alert since he never traveled of his own accord but his parents mandates.
From the point he was in High School Obama never left the country.
I traveled more internationally last year than Obama did in his previous 30 years to becoming POTUS.
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:22 pmThe International Man of Parody lives in a universe that looks like the one we live in, but is quite different. IMP also types words that look and sound like English, but clearly have drastically different meanings.
JD (07e55f) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:23 pm#118 Becoming Senator. My bad.
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:26 pmBut…but he lived in Indonesia…(which never impressed Hillary). Heh.
“Voters will have to judge if living in a foreign country at the age of 10 prepares one to face the big, complex international challenges the next president will face,” Clinton said.
Dana (8d88ef) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:26 pm“But not Darfur, Tiananmen, Rwanda, and the Shah. I think there are two explanations for the outrage seen in this blog”
oderfla – What are the explanations for the outrage perpetually present on lefty blogs? By the way, do you actually know and converse with any conservatives in meatspace or does your understanding of them come only from your telepathic powers?
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:40 pmHey, Dr. K., the “Obama licking” is anything but mindless. They have to do it, or admit that they projected all their hopes onto a Chicago pol with no experience and a huge ego. This is why they hate Palin so much, I think (beyond sexism): they are reminded of the completely bizarre choice of Joe Biden for VP, and have to attack the other side to make themselves feel better about their own choice.
Since they will never admit they were wrong, caught up in the moment, whatever…well, they will snark and snipe and lie like a proverbial rug to spin whatever the President does into perfection.
But I am starting to hear dissenting voices on the Left. That is healthy, and as it should be. The adulation business was really very sickening.
On the other hand, as you write above, we do have some posters here who think anything the President does is peachy. And they have to know how foolish that makes them look, which just makes them angrier and more insulting toward others.
We’ll see how things shake out.
Eric Blair (acade1) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:42 pm“From the point he was in High School Obama never left the country.”
Why would he want to, he was high all the time. You can get really good weed in Hawaii.
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:43 pm#121- “Voters will have to judge if living in a foreign country at the age of 10 prepares one to face the big, complex international challenges the next president will face,” Clinton said. Campain retoric can be caustic. Interesting how the Clintons ignored their own international experiences in Britain. Indonesia isn’t London, I suppose. No peace rallies to organize. The snobs. But then, they have Chelsea as a constant reminder, and namesake, of their time in ol’London town.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:45 pmDCSA,
Are you saying Obama had more foreign policy experience than Hilary?
OK, both are lightweights who think in Cliches but I’ll take “Former First Lady” over “Community Organizer” when it comes to “Foreign Policy experience.
But then again Cliche Liberals will do anything to support the narrative of Obama’s “exceptionalism.”
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:56 pm#124, He doesn’t talk about anything post-puberty / Pre-Harvard because fankly he can’t remember anything post-puberty / Pre-Harvard …
… other than the LSD induced hyper ventilating about social injustice, how blacks are superior to whites and revolution v. capitalism.
HeavenSent (1e97ff) — 6/24/2009 @ 10:59 pmWhere do you dream this stuff up, DCSCA? Bill Clinton lived in England as a Rhodes Scholar but Hillary wasn’t with him. And Chelsea’s name was reportedly “inspired by her parents’ fondness for Judy Collins’s recording of the Joni Mitchell song Chelsea Morning.”
DRJ (cdbef5) — 6/24/2009 @ 11:02 pmDRJ, welcome to the Wonderful World of DCSCA. It’s not about anything other than fighting with others, and trying to score points in some kind of game. Now you are in trouble: you discovered another Tall Tale.
Call it a metanarrative, maybe, instead of a Tall Tale.
Eric Blair (acade1) — 6/24/2009 @ 11:21 pmEric Blair, you may be right. He conveniently blows off #40, while trying to have it both ways. No good faith there.
Dana (8d88ef) — 6/24/2009 @ 11:27 pm“Now you are in trouble: you discovered another Tall Tale.”
Just add it to the already long list. Heh!
daleyrocks (718861) — 6/24/2009 @ 11:29 pmWell, you tried to engage him productively, Dana.
Eric Blair (acade1) — 6/24/2009 @ 11:30 pm-Yawn- DCSCA is boring.
Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (bcc87c) — 6/25/2009 @ 2:59 amAbdhur Rahman, the Durani Chief, of him is the story told,
nk (d78a32) — 6/25/2009 @ 4:42 amHe has opened his mouth to the North and the South,
they have stuffed his mouth with gold.
Ye know the truth of his tender ruth — and sweet his favours are:
Ye have heard the song — How long? How long?
from Balkh to Kandahar.
DCSCA is nothing but an empty liar and propagandist. We’ve had them before praising Stalin and Hitler.
I’d be curious to know if “Dogcrap” ever read about Lindbergh’s early support of Hitler before the war?
PCD (02f8c1) — 6/25/2009 @ 5:42 amUnlike GHWB, President Obama, among other events in his personal life, travelled in a professional capacity overseas and demostrated a curiosity for the world his predecessor lacked.
You don’t even know that GHWB traveled all over the world in “a professional capacity” which included being the youngest Navy pilot in WWII. I would appreciate a list of Obama’s trips overseas in a professional capacity. Perhaps there are trips to Cuba and the Soviet Union I have not learned of.
You really are a trip.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/25/2009 @ 6:02 amPCD, Lindbergh was a very interesting man and it was his wife who was really the Nazi sympathizer. He was impressed by the Luftwaffe but a lot of that was pessimism about the west. Once the war started, he volunteered but Roosevelt denied him the opportunity to serve. He went to the Pacific as a civilian employee of Lockheed and taught pilots how to increase the range of fighters, especially the P 38 and the P 51, when it came along, by running the engine very lean. He increased the range by nearly 30%. He wanted to go on combat missions but was barred by Roosevelt from doing so. I think they snuck him into a few combat missions, even so.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/25/2009 @ 6:08 amHe was in a combat mission, Mike – he shot down two zeroes in an engagement during one of his “test runs.” It was never recorded officially, but was confirmed in the excellent bio of Linbergh that used his wife’s copious notes and FOI records that were obtained from the military. BTW, his wife was proven to be nothing more than a mere bystander in his fascination with the Nazis – he was more than a little impressed with Hitler and Goerring, and for most of his life still believed in the claims of a superior white race.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/25/2009 @ 6:19 amDmac, In that belief, Lindbergh had company in Henry Ford.
I was hoping “dogcrap” would have continued his stupidity and lack of Lindbergh knowledge. I was waiting with the Pacific combat of Lindbergh.
I believe Lindbergh was an engineer before he was a pilot. He certainly knew airplanes in and out.
In comparison, Obama is a neophyte who only has been lucky in riding political coattails. He knows nothing about integrity and foreign policy.
Obama is just a surrender monkey looking to make deals where he gets to stay President of the US while surrendering US interests to the mullahs.
PCD (02f8c1) — 6/25/2009 @ 6:59 amUnlike GHWB, President Obama, among other events in his personal life, travelled in a professional capacity overseas and demostrated a curiosity for the world his predecessor lacked.
I skip over most of DCSCA’s comments, so I missed this. Did the poster child for dementia actually mean to say that about Nixon’s ambassador to Communist China and a director of the CIA?
nk (d78a32) — 6/25/2009 @ 7:23 am“A healthy two party system is important and I’d like to see a strong, sane, moderate Republican challenger.”
– DCSCA
There’s no such thing as a “healthy” two-party system. A two-party system allows representatives to tell their constituents to get bent on a regular basis without fear of electoral reprisal. See: Obama’s rejection of public finance.
Leviticus (13d69d) — 6/25/2009 @ 7:28 amI wonder what it take for the International Man of Parody to realize when he is completely beclowning himself?
JD (46cf2b) — 6/25/2009 @ 7:35 amWell, JD, the point of the poster you are discussing is not to enlighten or debate. It is all about insulting and arguing…like the Monty Python “Argument Room.”
It isn’t even about honest disagreement (notice the shifting standards and limbo played with prior statements).
Just a game. Scoring points. There are other Left of center postes here with whom I often disagree, but who are consistent in their philosophy and not terrifically obnoxious.
Eric Blair (acade1) — 6/25/2009 @ 8:29 amYep, nk, its the incompetence/hypocrisy that causes him to make errors even as he ridicules the errors of others.
SPQR (72771e) — 6/25/2009 @ 8:46 amDoes the Demented C____ S_____ Chewing A___ even know that Nixon and Bush opened up relations with Communist China, you think?
nk (d78a32) — 6/25/2009 @ 8:53 amNk – Actually, Nixon was taking subtle cues from Teh One back then. The Obamessiah gently guided Nixon and Bush with his skillfully well-played hand.
JD (46cf2b) — 6/25/2009 @ 9:01 amThat was around the same time that the precocious International Man of Parody was organizing against Maggie Thatcher in Fitchley.
JD (46cf2b) — 6/25/2009 @ 9:04 amI believe Lindbergh was an engineer before he was a pilot. He certainly knew airplanes in and out.
You are correct, he was an engineer – and his brilliance in designing the plane was equalled by his tremendous risk – taking in denying himself the extra fuel tank that the previous flights had on board. He also couldn’t see directly in front of his plane (the propellers were right in his field of vision), so he had to lean over the side in order to gauge his direction, windspeed, etc. -truly remarkable that he even made it.
I only know this minutae from the massive bio of Lindberg written by A. Scott Berg, in conjunction with the notes written by his wife.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/25/2009 @ 10:29 amThat was around the same time that the precocious International Man of Parody was organizing against Maggie Thatcher in Fitchley
I thought that was the same time he was playing dodgeball with the US Embassy staff in Moscow, against Vladimir Tretiak and the rest of the Red Army hockey team.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/25/2009 @ 10:31 amPerhaps he is in reality Boris Onischenko?
Steverino (69d941) — 6/25/2009 @ 10:58 am148, The Jimmy Stewart movie on Lindbergh was very demonsterative of how hard it was to fly the Spirit of St. Louis. Ever see the original at the Smithsonian or the replica displayed at the EAA museum in Oshkosh?
Did someone dispose of “dogcrap”?
PCD (02f8c1) — 6/25/2009 @ 12:49 pmDmac, the lack of visibility was because he wanted the fuel tank in front of him. He had seen other pilots crushed between the fuel tank and the engine in otherwise survivable crashes.
DC 3s are a bitch to taxi because of the lack of forward visibility.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/25/2009 @ 12:55 pmPCD, I did see the replica during a long – ago EAA fly – in; it was so tiny I still can’t believe he actually made it.
Dmac (f7884d) — 6/25/2009 @ 1:18 pmMichael Jackson dies today. A sad, sad day for everyone.
The Emperor (1b037c) — 6/25/2009 @ 4:02 pmIIRC Lindberg was a passenger on a flight over the South China Sea or thereabouts that had to ditch, and spent several days in a liferaft before rescue.
AD - RtR/OS! (438904) — 6/25/2009 @ 4:25 pmAD, are you sure that wasn’t Eddie Rickenbacker ?
One of Rickenbacker’s most famous near-death experiences occurred in October 1942. He was sent on a tour of the Pacific theater to review conditions and operations, and to personally deliver a secret message to General Douglas MacArthur. After visiting bases in Hawaii, the B-17D, 40-3089, in which he was flying went hundreds of miles off course from its first scheduled stop at Canton Island. The navigation failure was due to an out-of-true octant which introduced bias in the navigation calculations. The octant had suffered a severe shock in a pre-takeoff incident. This accident spurred the development of improved navigation tools and survival gear for aircraft. The pilots ditched the plane in the Pacific Ocean, dangerously close to Japanese-held enemy territory.
For 24 days, Rickenbacker, his friend and business partner, and the crew drifted at sea. Rickenbacker was still suffering from his prior airplane crash, his friend Hans Adamson sustained serious injuries in the water landing, and others in the crew were hurt to varying degrees. The crew’s food supply ran out after three days. On the eighth day, a seagull landed on Rickenbacker’s head. He painstakingly captured it, and the survivors meticulously divided it equally and used some for fishing bait. They lived on sporadic rain water and similar food “miracles”. Rickenbacker assumed leadership, encouraging and browbeating the others to survive. He encouraged them to turn to Christianity for solace using Psalm 46. The U.S. Army Air Forces intended to abandon the search for the lost crew after more than two weeks, but Rickenbacker’s wife convinced them to extend the search another week. Once again, the press reported that Rickenbacker had died.
Navy pilots rescued the surviving members of the crew on November 13, 1942, off the coast of Nukufetau near Samoa. The survivors were suffering from exposure, dehydration, and starvation. One serviceman had died and was buried at sea. Rickenbacker completed his assignment and delivered MacArthur’s secret message, which has never been made public.
Rickenbacker initially thought that he had been lost for 21 days, and wrote a book about the experience titled Seven Came Through, published by Doubleday, Doran. It was not until later that he recalculated and corrected himself in his 1967 autobiography.
I, and probably every other kid my age, heard that story from my mother with suitable embellishments.
Mike K (2cf494) — 6/25/2009 @ 5:05 pm“I skip over most of DCSCA’s comments, so I missed this. Did the poster child for dementia actually mean to say that about Nixon’s ambassador to Communist China and a director of the CIA?”
GHWB also “travelled in a professional capacity overseas” to fight the Japanese during WWII, IRRC.
Dave Surls (b2c10d) — 6/25/2009 @ 7:36 pm