Patterico's Pontifications

6/10/2009

The US is now Mirandizing high-value detainees?

Filed under: General — Karl @ 12:28 pm



[Posted by Karl]

The Weekly Standard reports:

[T]he Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan, according a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. “The administration has decided to change the focus to law enforcement. Here’s the problem. You have foreign fighters who are targeting US troops today – foreign fighters who go to another country to kill Americans. We capture them…and they’re reading them their rights – Mirandizing these foreign fighters,” says Representative Mike Rogers, who recently met with military, intelligence and law enforcement officials on a fact-finding trip to Afghanistan.

Rogers, a former FBI special agent and U.S. Army officer, says the Obama administration has not briefed Congress on the new policy…

Can’t imagine why that would be.  Although it sounds like a bad joke, Rep. Rogers notes that it would fit in with Obama’s “Global Justice Initiative.”  It also fits in with Obama’s general pattern of neutering the CIA.

As Gary Schmitt wrote when news of the “Global Justice Initiative” first surfaced:

The idea that we should return to the “good ol’ days” when the core of our counterterrorism strategy was to arrest terrorists and put them on trial is an idea that should be thoroughly debated before we head back down that road. Lest anyone forget, the first World Trade Center bombing—which only by luck did not result in hundreds or possibly thousands dying—happened on the FBI’s watch and while DOJ and FBI officials were worried about building a court case against the plotters. And of course the ’90s saw al Qaeda and terrorists kill hundreds in attacks against Americans with the bombings of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the USS Cole. The question someone should ask is: how many died on 9/11 and before when the FBI was taking the lead in counterterrorism, and how many have died since?

We can hope Rep. Rogers was misinformed in Afghanistan, but this policy seems all-too-plausible, coming from the Obama administration.

Update: “Now, do these folks deserve Miranda rights? Do they deserve to be treated like a shoplifter down the block? Of course not.” (h/t thegoldfarb.)

–Karl

39 Responses to “The US is now Mirandizing high-value detainees?”

  1. OMG, that’s horrible. We will become the laughingstock of the world. If I were in the military, I’d be devastated. The blood is on Obama’s hands for the deaths that will result on the battlefield and here.

    Old O’Reilly maybe was right that the first terrorist trial of a Gitmo guy is the opening salvo of an incremental return to the criminal justice mode of fighting terrorism.

    Patricia (2183bb)

  2. Are they going to deputize all of the servicemen and women?

    JD (b86d0b)

  3. Once again, it would appear that the future actions of our soldiers in combat will be to kill all enemy combatants, in order to avoid these types of situations.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  4. Agreed, dmac. It’s kinda pointless to Mirandize a corpse.

    Steverino (69d941)

  5. “[T]he Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan”

    What’s next? Conjugal visits?

    Dave Surls (73286e)

  6. Once again, it would appear that the future actions of our soldiers in combat will be to kill all enemy combatants, in order to avoid these types of situations.

    That would be a good thing.

    Michael Ejercito (833607)

  7. I would agree for the most part, except in cases of high – value targets, who would be killed along with their cohorts. As we’ve seen with past interrogations, sometimes you can elicit valuable information from these prisoners.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  8. Well, ok, geniuses. Are “enemy combatants” prisoners of war or criminals? If they are prisoners of war, Miranda should not be necessary because 1) they are not to be questioned and 2) they are not to be tried but only detained until the end of hostilities. If they are criminals, to be tried under our system of justice, they are entitled to all the protections of our system of justice.

    nk (386fdc)

  9. I vote for option 3, unlawful enemy combatants.

    DRJ (180b67)

  10. Does that mean that soldiers need to use the same rules of engagement as police officers in the US? Really, how many times do you get to tell someone to put down the AK-47 before you can shoot??? From our experience in Philly, any number larger than negative 1 usually results in the good guy dieing.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  11. The job of CIC is to win a war as quickly and with as little loss of life as possible. It is not to engage in some weird Muslim outreach which treats terrorists as though they are U.S. citizens.

    This is however the kind of idiocy I predicted from someone who cluelessly advocated for Iraq to be abandoned to al Qaeda and Iran, as if he was too stupid to understand what would follow.

    A public too exhausted – by a war that required little sacrifice – to take cognizance of this man’s gross incompetence is soon going to be involved in a much bigger war.

    Terry Gain (6b2a64)

  12. test

    Terry Gain (6b2a64)

  13. Once again, it would appear that the future actions of our soldiers in combat will be to kill all enemy combatants, in order to avoid these types of situations.

    Of course, then the DOJ will try them (not court martial) for excessive use of force.

    Patricia (2183bb)

  14. Since the USDOJ seems to have jurisdiction over the entire planet earth, couldn’t we simply arrest Kim Jong-il?

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  15. I vote for option 3, unlawful enemy combatants.

    Comment by DRJ — 6/10/2009 @ 6:17 pm

    Ex Parte Quirin, and their due process includes whatever the executive grants them, and if it includes Miranda ….

    We really are not very good at this sort of thing — trying to deny justice within a framework of American justice. This country’s soul is justice.

    nk (386fdc)

  16. […] Posted by Wellsy on June 10, 2009 Rep. Mike Rogers went on a fact-finding trip to Afghanistan and and apparently discovered that FBI agents have been ordered to read high-value detainees their Miranda rights when they are captured on the battlefield. The rationale given is to prepare the detainees for eventual trial in the US court system, but it signals an ever-obvious regression to the Clinton-era method of combating terror: law enforcement, as opposed to military action, which supposedly fits in with Obama’s Global Justice Initiative. […]

    Miranda warnings for captured terrorists? « Wellsy’s World (8246d7)

  17. nk – within a framework of American justice

    And there’s my point of contention. Afghanistan isn’t part of the US, and the ‘coalition’ of forces fighting there are not entirely US. Therefore the imposition of US criminal law jurisdiction in a foreign country in a combat situation involving coalition forces seems confused at best and ‘imperialist’ at worst.

    I admit that the use of Hellfire missiles and Predator drones would make the California Car-Chase footage much more exciting.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  18. WWII German irregulars captured fighting out of uniform got what they were entitled under the Geneva Convention — a blindfold and a cigarette.

    Mirandize that.

    furious (a74982)

  19. “What’s next? Conjugal visits?”

    If we do that, Lovey’s going to be awfully busy.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  20. some weird Muslim outreach

    Outreach is the perfect word. He is still the community organizer who sees his role as bringing disparate parts to the table. In his eyes it’s a noble endeavor for a president. The problem is, we need a president in the real sense of the word and not someone who thinks that even terrorists can be won over.

    Dana (aedf1d)

  21. “If they are prisoners of war, Miranda should not be necessary because 1) they are not to be questioned and”

    nk – You have a very interesting reading of the Geneva Conventions. They are not bound to answer questions apart from name, rank, etc., but can you point me to the prohibition on questioning please?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  22. “What’s next? Conjugal visits?”

    Let’s hope only with 72 virgins.

    SDGuy (fb3fa8)

  23. I vote with DRJ.

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  24. Meanwhile, back in the real world, it’s the same old crap. Totally innocent people are captured by Muslim, terrorist animals, and then murdered in cold-blood.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jun/03/edwin-dyer-hostage-killed-al-qaida

    No doubt, if these killers ever fall into the hands of Obama and company, their “rights” will be fully protected. How wonderful it is to know that our government is looking out for the interests of savages like this, and making sure that they’ll be treated with kid gloves, and that securing their rights will be the government’s top priority.

    Makes me proud to be an American.

    Not.

    Dave Surls (9cde3d)

  25. Comment by furious — 6/10/2009 @ 7:51 pm

    See, this is what happens when war is conducted outside the boundaries of Liberalism.
    How dare anyone endanger the lives of combatants by giving them cigarettes?
    Plus, I’m sure that depriving them of sight is out of bounds somehow.

    AD - RtR/OS! (15fd5c)

  26. I’m also with DRJ and nk needs to evaluate the status of these prisoners in the following basis as defined by the Geneva Convention:

    The criteria are: “(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; [and] (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.”

    What say you, nk?

    BJTexs (56337a)

  27. We really are not very good at this sort of thing — trying to deny justice within a framework of American justice

    There are many many many legitimate points that these people are not properly a part of our justice system.

    JD (eee3ad)

  28. We’ve now got the administration of the Marching Morons.

    SPQR (72771e)

  29. SPQR That was a BRILLIANT (and oh-so accurate) comment.

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  30. If they are criminals, to be tried under our system of justice, they are entitled to all the protections of our system of justice.

    We should Mirandize them, informing them exactly of what rights they have under the American justice system..and then hand them over to our allies in Afghanistan, Iraq, or Israel.

    Michael Ejercito (833607)

  31. What say you, nk?

    Comment by BJTexs — 6/11/2009 @ 8:52 am

    First of all, I disagree with “laws and customs of war”. General Sherman said it right, “War is barbarity”.

    Anyway, we, over here, have a way of doing things when we send another human being to prison or put him to death. What can I say, it’s how we are. We are not going to disregard our values, no matter how hard we try. We will, whether we want it or not, give terrorists the benefit of American values and American justice, and not just a gloss of them.

    nk (5a2f98)

  32. NK, For your “American Values” al queda would chop your head off in a second after they were finished torturing you. If you were being held hostage and the US captured an enemy that could tell us where you were being held, would you want that suspect the be Mirandized and lawyer up or be interrogated in a manner that could lead to your rescue. Dont BS me, just answer the question.

    Knuckles (b2907a)

  33. The problem is that, inspite of Right wing talk, they dont believe in American values.
    Ya! They love to talk about supporting the troops and honoring the flag but when the going gets tough they throw American Values in the ditch and act just like the terrorists.

    In reality Conservative values today are more like those of the terrorists than the Founding Fathers. Indefinite imprisonment without opportunity to confront the charges, beatings water boarding and rendition to foreign countries for torture, attacks on the loyalty of fellow Americans, vicious smears and outright lies feeding a growing hate based on lies and racism, and of course, painting themselves as victims of just about everyone in the world. These are all part of the war happy gun loving, god-on-our side cult that is the Conservative movement today.

    You love the appearance but not the substance of American Values and frankly most of the world recognizes your desire for world domination and your not so secret desire for Obama to fail so you can gain power and the total hippocricy of your position with is little more than a grab for power no matter what the lies and not matter what the cost.

    When I real or talk or listen to the hateful radical right which actually prefers a drug addicted lying womanizing buffon Rush Limbaugh to a man like Colin Powell, that says it all.

    Who can believe the party of Limbaugh, Hannity, Steele, Palin, Coulter, Cheney, Bachman, Bortz, Gingritch and others who capitalize of hate and misinformation to make millions. Still havent found the WMDs you berated others for when they questioned the wisdom of the war in Iraq..and still making pathetic excuses for Bush failures.

    The real problem is not that we have differences or that a few have spoken out in ways that are over the top, but the problem that there is an organized campaign of hate and disinformation by people who would rather tear down this country than see themselves loose in an election.
    If you dont believe me go to the White House Website and watch the speech in Cairo by Obama and then watch the way it was reported on FOX by Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.

    But of course you wont do that because truth is not what you care about..

    VietnamEraVet (8918ab)

  34. Problem is that most Conservatives love the symbols but hate the practice of American values.. They talk the talk but dont walk the walk.. They think those values are for sunny times but when the going gets rough they abandon them..

    VietnamEraVet (8918ab)

  35. Projection Alert!

    AD - RtR/OS! (15fd5c)

  36. Vietnamera Vet – your ignorance of history continues I see.

    For one thing, the Miranda decision is only a few decades old. For another, it has never before been applied to captured combatants. So calling it an “American Value” ( double check what FDR did with captured illegal combatants in the Quirin case … ), shows your continuing ignorance.

    And I see you are still repeating your lies that were debunked months and years ago.

    SPQR (72771e)

  37. Your boy Gen. Petraeus denies this

    JEA (dffa7e)

  38. Problem is that most Conservatives love the symbols but hate the practice of American values.. They talk the talk but dont walk the walk.. They think those values are for sunny times but when the going gets rough they abandon them..

    Are you aware that torture was an approved interrogation method in San Quentin State Prison as late as 1943?

    And what is wrong with rendition anyway?

    Michael Ejercito (833607)

  39. […] the absurdity of a government so solicitous of terrorists captured in Afghanistan that gives them Miranda warnings, but a government so unconcerned with its own citizens that it sentences them to death if their […]

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