Patterico's Pontifications

6/6/2009

More Questions About Dealergate

Filed under: Economics,Obama — DRJ @ 6:58 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Democrats are expressing concerns about the GM and Chrysler dealers selected for termination:

“Closing these dealerships will put over 100,000 jobs at risk at a time when our country is shedding jobs at an alarming rate. We also question the criteria being used to determine which dealerships should be closed and the fundamental fairness involved in this effort. It is our view that the market [sic] rather than leaving it up to the manufacturers whose poor leadership contributed to their demise. Furthermore, we believe car dealers will be key players in any effort to revive the American auto industry.”

This is an excerpt from a letter circulated by House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer and Reps. Chris Van Hollen and Daniel Maffei. The letter has reportedly also been signed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

The last line of the letter notes they “may consider legislative proposals to ensure that dealers and their employees are treated fairly.” The full text is below the “more” link.

In a related development, Rep. Barney Frank convinced the GM CEO to keep the plant in his district open for at least 14 months.

— DRJ

The text of the letter:

Dear President Obama:

We are writing to express our concerns about General Motors’ and Chrysler’s decision to close profitable automobile dealerships across the country, and urge you to ask GM and Chrysler to delay final action on proposed closures pending further review of the decision to consolidate dealerships and the process by which Chrysler and GM selected the dealerships to close.

Closing these dealerships will put over 100,000 jobs at risk at a time when our country is shedding jobs at an alarming rate. We also question the criteria being used to determine which dealerships should be closed and the fundamental fairness involved in this effort. It is our view that the market [sic] rather than leaving it up to the manufacturers whose poor leadership contributed to their demise. Furthermore, we believe car dealers will be key players in any effort to revive the American auto industry.

We believe the dealerships are one of the auto industry’s key sources of strength and the manufacturers should continue to honor their agreements and contracts. The dealerships, and their more than 1 million employees, form personal relationships with customers that often contribute to brand loyalty and will be key to General Motors’ and Chrysler’s recovery following this economic downturn. While we understand the desire to reduce the number of unprofitable dealerships, no one has yet sufficiently explained the need to close profitable dealerships.

We recognize that efforts by your Auto Task Force prevented the total liquidation of General Motors and Chrysler, as well as their dealership networks. We commend your efforts to help these businesses survive these challenging economic times.

However, we are concerned that manufacturers are closing profitable dealerships to circumvent current contracts which could require expensive buy-outs under normal conditions. We are also concerned about allegations that dealers that have previously stood up for their rights against the manufacturers are being targeted by these closures. We believe that the forced closures of profitable dealerships needs to be scrutinized by the Task Force to prevent additional future financial loses [sic] to General Motors and Chrysler and job loses [sic] across the United States

We may consider legislative proposals to ensure that dealers and their employees are treated fairly, and we look forward to your timely response.

91 Responses to “More Questions About Dealergate”

  1. Too much of a stretch to say that was a nice try.
    The pony you were riding a few days ago — the breathless allegations that dealers who contributed to Republicans were being cut — died of natural causes, a.k.a. facts.
    So now you put the dead pony’s tail on this newest critter to walk by, a goat.
    Is this the best ya got?

    Larry Reilly (45e7a4)

  2. Larry,

    I primarily feel sorry for all the people who are losing their jobs in the auto industry and elsewhere, but I’m also interested in fairness. The dealership decisions don’t sound fair to me, and I’m going to follow this until the full story is told.

    DRJ (180b67)

  3. “The pony you were riding a few days ago — the breathless allegations that dealers who contributed to Republicans were being cut — died of natural causes, a.k.a. facts.”

    Larry – It’s glaringly obvious you did not read the relevant posts or articles on the subjects from the ignorant comments you have written. The position was always more research was needed. Since the dealers are overwhelmingly Republican sympathizers, once the initial data was parsed, the question became who is being forced to close and who is being allowed to stay open if it appears other than pro rata.

    Have you seen any criteria disclosed Larry?

    Looking at individual markets, high performing dealers appear to be getting the heave ho in deference to cronies and connected dealers even if they are underperforming. Surely you have stayed on top of these stories Larry. Oops, I forgot, you are not on top of these developments at all and have missed all the crony capitalism and affirmative action handouts.

    Read up on the subject and come back when you can comment like an adult Larry.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  4. Larry:

    This is the bulletin for those who don’t understand statistics. Republicans don’t typically do well with numbers and facts, so they just pretend evidentiary support is unnecessary.

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  5. Did you see all those facts that daleyrocks used in his post? Yeah, I missed those too Larry.

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  6. dylan:

    Republicans don’t typically do well with numbers and facts, so they just pretend evidentiary support is unnecessary.

    So how do you explain the fact that this letter — a letter that questions “the criteria being used to determine which dealerships should be closed and the fundamental fairness involved in this effort” — was written by Democrats?

    DRJ (180b67)

  7. Because it is a fair question to ask, but without facts backing up these assertions we’re all just jumping into the pool before we even check to see if it has water in it.

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  8. Larry, incompetence like yours reminds me of the joke about the farmer and the life-saving pig.

    Any normal person can see how Government Motors is already a disaster.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  9. Since you are so willing to dispense with the insults, do you suppose you’d be willing to run a few statistical analyses proving that the dealerships in question were more likely to donate to the republican party than the democratic party within a 95% confidence interval?

    I eagerly await your results. Please cite your sources and the models you used.

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  10. dylan,

    I’m just asking questions, too, only I’m doing it in a blog post instead of a letter. Furthermore, as I understand the method that underlies statistics and other scientific inquiries, the process is to observe events, formulate a hypothesis, predict results, and test the predictions. Requiring that all the facts and predictions be verified first is backwards.

    DRJ (180b67)

  11. dylan, actually a couple of friends of mine are having good fun with the data and SPSS right now. What ought to concern you more is that the allegation is so credible in the first place, given the widespread corruption of Democrats currently, not the least Obama’s cronies.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  12. The allegation is credible before the results of this analysis is even completed? I assume you are not a scientist…

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  13. dylan, pretending to be that clueless hardly improves your credibility.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  14. Republicans don’t typically do well with numbers and facts, so they just pretend evidentiary support is unnecessary.

    Kind of like leftists pretending the economy is getting better when the unemployment rate rises.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  15. We already talked about the rise in jobless rates immediately after Teh Savior (Reagan) took office. Save that argument for someone who isn’t paying attention AC.

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  16. dylan, if you are paying attention, why are you misrepresenting my comment?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  17. I’m impressed how quickly you can back away from your comments without tripping, SPQR.

    dylan (a7cfa3)

  18. dylan, my error, misrepresenting and lying about my comments. I have backed away from nothing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  19. “Kind of like leftists pretending the economy is getting better when the unemployment rate rises.”

    Kind of like Obama bragging that he saved or created 150,000 jobs recently even though 16,000 people a day have been joining the ranks of the unemployed since he took office. Good Democrat statistics right there!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  20. dylan,

    Are you poon or bells bells?

    DRJ (180b67)

  21. “We already talked about the rise in jobless rates immediately after Teh Savior (Reagan) took office.”

    dylan – Who is “we”? Were you commenting under a different name or under your current screen name?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  22. Actually, what is most amusing is to contrast the current employment rate to the employment rate predictions of the Obama administration “with” and “without” the porkupolis bill …

    Well, amusing if one is employed.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  23. without facts backing up these assertions we’re all just jumping into the pool before we even check to see if it has water in it.

    I’m sure you’re a hit over at Kos and Firedoglake.

    Yes. It’s a fair question to ask, specifically because the people in charge of the ‘closings’ have never run an auto dealership, and are in reality just politicians who have taken it upon themselves to ‘adjust’ the market. How might they do that? What would the closing ‘criteria’ be for someone who’s never run that business? Profits?

    How about the handling of AIG? The GSE’s? Is there any reason to question whether favoritism might come into play regarding the dealerships based on the recent past behavior? It seems that you would like people to know all the facts before asking the questions.

    From this Link.

    …the problem is not so much one of junior and senior creditors, it is, as David Skeel has noted, a problem of politically favored insiders and politically disfavored outsiders. It is highly unlikely to be efficient, either in the allocation of credit in the economy or in the making of cars, for the government to be naming winners and losers not even on the basis of its (likely dubious) estimations of efficiency, but instead on the basis of the UAW insiders and creditor-fiduciary outsiders.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  24. Republicans don’t typically do well with numbers and facts, so they just pretend evidentiary support is unnecessary.

    Yeah, kinda like Obama claiming he’s “saved” hundreds of thousands of jobs. How do you suppose he knows that? And how does Obama know his stimulus bill will work…especially given that he never bothered to read it before signing it? And how does Harry Reid know that Judge Sotomayor is “the whole package”…even though he’s admitted that he’s never bothered to read any of her opinions?

    Hmmmmmmmmmm?

    MarkJ (d2394a)

  25. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

    Techie (482700)

  26. Slow down Mark. Those were a whole bunch of talking points to spit out all at once. Would you mind telling us where you got this information?

    Bush claimed he saved the United States and the entire Arabic speaking world with his policies. I don’t suppose we were privy to the information backing those assertions. Politicians are politicians.

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  27. Bush claimed he saved the United States and the entire Arabic speaking world with his policies.

    Link please. Remember, information backing up assertions.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  28. Oh, I’m sorry. You caught me Apogee. Have your friends provide links to their assertions and I’ll go ahead and follow up with my own.

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  29. I’m impressed how quickly you can back away from your comments without tripping, dylan.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  30. Dylan – Are you going to stick with a capital “D” or a small “d” for your name. Lovey was doing this with duvel earlier this week. She kept forgetting to be consistent.

    Don’t post those discredited Nate Silver pieces here about Dealergate, including his supposed takedown of the 95% CI done elsewhere. Those have already been discussed. We appreciate your interest but would rather you stay current.

    Hey, I’ll bet you’re a 9/11 Truther like a lot of your buddies. Can we talk about that?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  31. http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/01/cheney-iraq-saved-lives/

    Cheney says Iraq war saved lives. Is that close enough?

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  32. We already talked about the rise in jobless rates immediately after Teh Savior (Reagan) took office. Save that argument for someone who isn’t paying attention AC.

    Considering your Lord and Savior’s stimulus completely failed to do what he promised it would do–stabilize unemployment–perhaps the lack of attention is on you.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  33. 30.Dylan – Are you going to stick with a capital “D” or a small “d” for your name.

    It is a proper pronoun.

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  34. AC:

    Jesus never claimed to do that. He is my Lord and Savior. Don’t create strawmen arguments.

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  35. “He is my Lord and Savior.”

    Obama?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  36. Is that close enough?

    The United States: ~300,000,000

    The entire Arabic Speaking World: ~325,000,000

    Total: ~625,000,000

    Cheney (a different person) says that the Iraq war “saved lives”. If 2 lives (plural) were saved that would have been lost had we not invaded, Cheney is technically correct, since he did not denote a specific or even an abstract number. It would be difficult to argue that Hussein would not have murdered at least two political opponents had we not removed him from power.

    Close enough? No. Not even remotely.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  37. I am going to count it. Score one for Dylan.

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  38. Eh, Dylan, is not worth arguing with. He first accuses y’all of not using “numbers and facts” and not providing info to back up claims, yet when pressed, he pretty much folds.

    He doesn’t understand how you “caught” him with two different screen names (obviously not a UNIX system person)

    BTW, Dylan, for a Christian, you’re awfully judgmental of people who don’t believe the same thing you do… Especially, using language like “Teh Savior” accusing others of a strawman argument that you started.

    JFH (3addfc)

  39. Jesus never claimed to do that. He is my Lord and Savior. Don’t create strawmen arguments.

    That’s big talk coming from a guy who generalized that conservatives have trouble with facts and figures. At least try to keep your arguments consistent.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  40. Hi Lovey!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  41. Hey daley—Lovey/Emperor/etc was also duvel? I missed that one.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  42. Really? I missed it, too.

    DRJ (180b67)

  43. Hey daley—Lovey/Emperor/etc was also duvel? I missed that one.

    It’s like a Patterico’s Pontifications version of “The United States of Tera.”

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  44. Since you are so willing to dispense with the insults, do you suppose you’d be willing to run a few statistical analyses proving that the dealerships in question were more likely to donate to the republican party than the democratic party within a 95% confidence interval?

    What a strange argument for more investigation… I seriously doubt that the EEOC using such a criteria before launching an investigation on discriminatory hiring decisions… After all, a 95% confidence interval would be a near impossible requirement when we’re taking about a small minority of qualified candidates for any given position.

    Do you REALLY want to go there for your standard of statistical proof? Remember, we’re talking about statistical results determined by humans not an assumption of pure chance.

    JFH (3addfc)

  45. I must be a dumbass.

    I could swear I learned from the Democrats in Congress that it wasn’t about the ability to prove something, but that it is all about “the seriousness of the charge.”

    Did I miss the press conference announcing a change?

    Ed from SFV (a53c07)

  46. If we are to follow the “logic” above, since the answers are not known, the questions should not be asked. Damn you Steny Hoyer, damn you to hell.

    JD (da8b51)

  47. It is always interesting to see what brings out a full infestation.

    JD (da8b51)

  48. “Hey daley—Lovey/Emperor/etc was also duvel? I missed that one.”

    Dmac pegged it when he cornered duvel/Duvel on a question earlier this week and the answer came back a smiley face emoticon from the Emperor. I’m going from the inconsistent punctuation and a few other tells here. Let’s see if she comes back.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  49. Your kind words? Your wonderful thoughts?

    timb (8f04c0)

  50. What part of our legislature begging the executive branch of our goverment to “go easy” on their particular districts did anyone not get? We “MAY” have to take action??
    When does this Obama worship end? Will we now have the so-called bicameral “legislature” begging the liberals on the supreme court to consider their particular district as an exception to the Obama rule?
    You betcha!!!

    Sanity (646ee5)

  51. From Ethel L. Cook during her court testimony involving terminated Chrysler dealers. She is the current owner of the family owned car dealership that has been in business for 95 years — the oldest continuing auto dealership in Arkansas:

    “Having reviewed the pattern of assumption and rejection of dealers throughout their region, I have detected a pattern: In every market where there is a dealership connected with former Penske Automotive executive Steve Landers, or his new automotive partnership with “Mac” McLarty (former Chief of Staff for President Clinton) and Robert L. Johnson (majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats), the competitors are rejected.

    In the Little Rock, Landers Chrysler Dodge Jeep is located far out of town in Benton, Arkansas. Nevertheless, the two Little Rock dealers, Cook and Crain were rejected.

    In the Fayetteville, Arkansas area, Landers-McLarty Dodge Chrysler Jeep is located far out of town in Bentonville, Arkansas. Competitors Springdale Dodge Chrysler, Steve Smith County Jeep and Jones Brothers were all rejected.

    In the Shreveport, Louisiana market, Lee’s Summit Dodge Chrysler Jeep (a Landers McLarty dealership) is located in Bossier City, Louisiana. Both competitive dealers, Claude de Beaux in Vivian, Louisiana and Greater Birmingham Dodge Chrysler in Shreveport were rejected.

    In the Springfield, Missouri market, Tri-Lakes Motors (a Landers-McLarty dealership) is located in Branson, Missouri. Competitors Heritage Chrysler Jeep in Ozark, Missouri and Ramsay Motor Company in Harrison, Arkansas were rejected. A pattern seems to be emerging. Everywhere there is a Landers-McLarty dealership, Chrysler has rejected the competition.

    In the Huntsville, Alabama market, Landers McLarty Dodge Chrysler Jeep, is located in Huntsville. Competitor Cloverleaf Chrysler Dodge Jeep was rejected.

    Favoritism and cronyism towards preferred dealer group is not a valid exercise of business judgment.”

    URBuddy (ce1c50)

  52. Penske has over 300 dealerships and is also buying the Saturn brand. I wonder how many were terminated?

    DRJ (180b67)

  53. Comment by DRJ — 6/6/2009 @ 8:26 pm

    That was a shock!

    [AD – I think I was wrong about that. At this point I’m not sure I know who anyone is. — DRJ]

    AD - RtR/OS! (b149bd)

  54. Penske…
    Did you listen carefully to his presser where he stated that he would continue “…selling GM made Saturns…” but that he was exploring moving production off-shore?
    A contact I have says he is in discussion with Renault to use their production facility in South Korea.
    Would that not be a stiff thumb in the eye to the UAW, and Congress?
    I love it!

    AD - RtR/OS! (b149bd)

  55. Penske is keeping all the Saturn Dealerships…contracting the vehicles through GM for at least 18 months….may contract out to other foreign companies for additional cars / models.

    rudytbone (8052af)

  56. [AD – I think I was wrong about that. At this point I’m not sure I know who anyone is. — DRJ]

    It just seemed so out-of-character for you; but, both of those actors don’t seem to be entirely on the up and up.

    AD - RtR/OS! (b149bd)

  57. AD,

    I asked that question because of dylan’s comment #15:

    We already talked about the rise in jobless rates immediately after Teh Savior (Reagan) took office. Save that argument for someone who isn’t paying attention AC.”

    That discussion primarily involved poon and bell bells, so dylan’s use of “we” made me curious. Of course, anyone could read the discussion but I think commenters would be more likely to say “we” than readers.

    DRJ (180b67)

  58. I think it is considered opinion that both “poon” and “bells” have multiple identities, and “dylan” (big or small d, doesn’t matter) seems to resemble someone who flits in and out of here quite frequently, and is known to use pseudonyms.

    AD - RtR/OS! (b149bd)

  59. As to Barney exerting his influence to keep that GM plant in his district open…
    I have a very small enterprise, but rest assured that I will be contacting all the venders I deal with for manufactured product, to find out if any of them have UAW contracts. Those that don’t, I will continue to use and represent their products; those that have UAW associations will have to find some other outlet for their products.
    Don’t even ask about buying a GM or Chrysler product.

    AD - RtR/OS! (b149bd)

  60. […] Hat tip:  DRJ, Patterico Pontifications. […]

    Dear President Obama | BitsBlog (33ff78)


  61. “Hey daley—Lovey/Emperor/etc was also duvel? I missed that one.”


    Dmac pegged it when he cornered duvel/Duvel on a question earlier this week and the answer came back a smiley face emoticon from the Emperor. I’m going from the inconsistent punctuation and a few other tells here. Let’s see if she comes back.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 6/6/2009 @ 9:56 pm

    Good catch by Dmac, then. So…wouldn’t she have gotten banned for the multiples?

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  62. I’m not lovey/duvel/etc, but if that makes you feel better about not understanding statistical analysis then so be it.

    Dylan (a7cfa3)

  63. Dylan,
    Your post is both counter intuitive (that’ ok-so is Quantum elctrodynamics) and contrary to facts. It’s been established the lower the SAT scores of college UG students,the less intellectually challenging their majors .And the less intellectually challenging majors (Psych, education,gender studies) ,were overwhelmingly Democratic in voting patterns. It lead to a put down (first coined in a poker game when someone drew for an inside straight twice in a row )-“Some of my best friends are Liberal Arts majors.”
    By by the way, I know this is the net ,but could you give a little of your mathematical background ?

    corwin (9cac2a)

  64. While I’m not interested in asking our host(s) to continually try to ferret out the commenters using multiple aliases in order to cloak their true identities, is it not a relatively straightforward process to check their IP’s and then quickly discern the truth of the matter?

    Dmac (f7884d)

  65. BTW, for what’s it’s worth – the only regular ommenter who has a penchant for bringing in their religious beliefs into almost every political discussion is the aforementioned Lovey/Emp/Duvel/etc. – yet here’s “Dylan” showing the exact same form and prose. Curious, no?

    Dmac (f7884d)

  66. Dylan/dylan – Please explain how your beloved statistical analysis matters when people are requesting the metrics and formulas that Rattner, Deese, and Teh One used to force these decisions on the dealers. Again, this all really just ignores where they think they derive the Constitutional authority to do so, and why they had to threaten and intimidate creditors and Judges to get it done. Dylan’s wailing about statistical analysis only serves to obscure from the theft occurring right in front of our eyes. Let’s hope that the Supreme Court steps in and restores some actual law to this process, as opposed to letting Teh One pay off the UAW at the expense of the taxpayers and pension funds. Why does Teh One hate retirees?

    JD (fd2bc3)

  67. A lot of commentors are putting the burden of proof on the wrong side of this argument:

    It is the responsibility of the government/Chrysler (same thing nowadays) to prove that their dissolution of dealers is economically justifiable and fair to all concerned.

    It is NOT the responsibility of the public to somehow prove that the unknown & undisclosed process for closing profitable dealerships is corrupt and economically idiocy. Without ready access to data on either the population or the sample, such an analysis is quite difficult.

    The claims of openness and transparency in gov’t are becoming increasingly laughable — even to some of those gullible folks who believed these claims in the first place.

    deMontjoie (d07f92)

  68. While I’m not interested in asking our host(s) to continually try to ferret out the commenters using multiple aliases in order to cloak their true identities, is it not a relatively straightforward process to check their IP’s and then quickly discern the truth of the matter?

    Comment by Dmac — 6/7/2009 @ 8:32 am

    Not if it’s a spammer, like I have accused one of being. They can make themselves look like anything from anywhere. It takes stuff available only to the Secret Service and the FBI to actually pin them down.

    nk (c788b4)

  69. why not donate all the cars they can’t sell to charity?

    karenc (b65a8e)

  70. Since Chrysler is now a govt entity, would not the cancelling of a dealer’s franchise constitute a “taking” that would require either “due process” or compensation?

    AD - RtR/OS! (e874ac)

  71. Dylan is proud of statistical analysis that he’s not actually doing. Hilarious.

    Add in the fact that he simply makes up stuff and puts words in others’ mouths, it is just another troll. Slightly more articulate than love/emperor but not impossible to be another instance of same.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  72. Considering that over 90% of car dealers contributed heavily to Republican campaigns, it’s not surprising that about 90% of the dealerships being closed are Republican owned in about the same percent.

    In another note. If the Republicans are trying to get the public sympathetic to car dealers, then they obviously have never been over charged for new car prep fees, make belive rust undercoatings or any of the 1000 ways that auto dealers have bilked the average car buyer.

    Seems that once again the GOP has tied its rich man’s wagon to a losing position in its daily attempt at mud slinging.

    Continuum (40d80d)

  73. have never been over charged for new car prep fees, make belive rust undercoatings or any of the 1000 ways that auto dealers have bilked the average car buyer.

    If you’ve actually been duped into paying for rust proofing these days, then it’s quite obvious that a village somewhere is missing it’s idiot.

    Seems that once again the GOP has tied its rich man’s wagon to a losing position in its daily attempt at mud slinging.

    As opposed to the statement you just posted above – quick, get back to your village, their absence of mirth grows ever more acute!

    Dmac (f7884d)

  74. It is always interesting to see what brings out a full infestation.

    Invariably, it’s when their side is getting nailed. The trolls can’t admit this publicly, so they lie and distract. Their goal is to derail honest, open discussion because they’ll such a discussion and they know it.

    A while back, Limbaugh was the hot button issue. We received lots of “friendly” advice that Limbaugh was hurting the Republicans and the GOP should repudiate him. At least until EJ Dionne gave away the game by writing that Rush and Newt are winning by driving the political discussion to the right. And now according to Rasmussen Reports, it’s a tie between the percentage of strong Obama supporters and opponents. Quite a comedown for President God.

    Now “Dylan,” and the other lefty trolls are worried about Dealergate further soiling the reputation of President God, so they’re back here spewing the same lies and deceptions. (The repeatedly banned proven liar bunker/Hax/Dark Beerpuke is almost certainly among them.) Unfortunately for them, their act is so laughably transparent no one is fooled.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  75. It is always interesting to see what brings out a full infestation.

    Invariably, it’s when their side is getting nailed. The trolls can’t admit this publicly, so they lie and distract. Their goal is to derail honest, open discussion because they’ll lose such a discussion and they know it.

    A while back, Limbaugh was the hot button issue. We received lots of “friendly” advice that Limbaugh was hurting the Republicans and the GOP should repudiate him. At least until EJ Dionne gave away the game by writing that Rush and Newt are winning by driving the political discussion to the right. And now according to Rasmussen Reports, it’s a tie between the percentage of strong Obama supporters and opponents. Quite a comedown for President God.

    Now “Dylan,” and the other lefty trolls are worried about Dealergate further soiling the reputation of President God, so they’re back here spewing the same lies and deceptions. (The repeatedly banned proven liar bunker/Hax/Dark Beerpuke is almost certainly among them.) Unfortunately for them, their act is so laughably transparent no one is fooled.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  76. Don’t you worry about Hax, Bradley. He can’t help himself. He’ll be back soon, get caught (Patterico has caught him several times) and then get outed.

    I hope the character is freelance. His employers might not be happy at all the shenanigans on their dime.

    Not to mention the carbon footprint.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  77. Continuum, is there a reason you are making up meaningless numbers in your failed attempt to “prove” something? You appear to be a week behind in reading your talking points faxes.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  78. Eric – you don’t actually believe that these trolls are productive members of society, do you?

    If they produce anything other than Methane, I’d be quite surprised.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  79. Methane is a greenhouse gas, after all, Apogee.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  80. I’d be astounded if Bunker/Hax/Whatever has a journalism job of much significance. If it did, it wouldn’t endanger its job with multiple Hiltzikings.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  81. Remember, Bradley: he is reading your words avidly. He just can’t stay away!

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  82. Considering that over 90% of car dealers contributed heavily to Republican campaigns

    Actually, that’s not true. First of all, the majority of car dealers don’t donate to either party. Second, while it may be true that 90% of the dealers who do give donate to Republicans, that may or may not be true of Chrysler dealers.

    One point that I haven’t seen raised is that the closings are not random, nor should they be. It would be utterly foolish to close the dealerships on a random selection from the list. So, since the closings aren’t random, we need to know what criteria are being used. Dylan and his kindred spirits can huff and puff all they like about statistical analysis, but the bottom line is that the methodology being used is a secret and it shouldn’t be.

    Steverino (69d941)

  83. I checked the site before going to work either Thursday or Friday and noticed Bunkerbuster/Hax had left some droppings overnight. I called up the site a little later at work and noticed they had been removed. So yeah, he’s lurking.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  84. All those electrons for nothing, daley!

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  85. Steverino – the bottom line is that the methodology being used is a secret and it shouldn’t be.

    good point. Apparently, Obama was transparently lying when he spoke of transparency.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  86. “…Apparently, Obama was transparently lying when he spoke of transparency.”
    Fixed that for you.

    AD - RtR/OS! (e874ac)

  87. AD – Not everything Obama says is untruthful.

    Remember – “I won”?

    I’ll get back to you when I find another example.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  88. Remember, Bradley: he is reading your words avidly. He just can’t stay away!

    Bunker/Hax/Beerstain could have commented here without any issues if it just stuck to one identity and stopped trolling.

    Of course, that would take away the whole point of its commenting, to troll and probably to get even over some personal problems it blames on conservatives. What a messed-up person!

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  89. Transparency is for the little people.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  90. —-This is the bulletin for those who don’t understand statistics. Republicans don’t typically do well with numbers and facts, so they just pretend evidentiary support is unnecessary.—

    This is why university Women’s Studies, Transgender Studies, African-Studies, Queer Studies etc. etc. etc. etc. are populated exclusively by Republicans.

    Heh give me a break.

    red (9eb8f5)

  91. This is why university Women’s Studies, Transgender Studies, African-Studies, Queer Studies etc. etc. etc. etc. are populated exclusively by Republicans.
    Comment by red — 6/7/2009 @ 6:35 pm

    And why all the subscribers to The Wall Street Journal – in addition to 98.7% of accountants – are Democrats.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)


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