Patterico's Pontifications

4/21/2009

L.A. Times: George Bush Came to the White House on the Strength of a Supreme Court Ruling

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 7:24 am

Doyle McManus at the L.A. Times is a nice guy with whom I have had several genial e-mail exchanges. However, I have a bone to pick with his front-page news analysis comparing Obama to FDR, under the phrase “Ambition and Audacity” (a phrase that The Times has repeatedly used in headlines as a sort of tagline for Obama):

I don’t want to argue about whether Obama is the new incarnation of FDR, other than to say that if he is, God help us all.

But McManus repeats another tired liberal canard that I can’t let pass: the fairy tale that President Bush who was selected and not elected:

In 2001, George W. Bush’s 100 days were proclaimed a solid success, especially for a president who came to the White House on the strength of a Supreme Court ruling after losing the popular vote.

Oh, my God. As a great man once said, here we go again.

First, the popular vote is not what counts, as Doyle McManus well knows.

And Bush came to the White House on the strength of being certified the winner by the Florida Secretary of State.

And Bush won the media recounts, as Karl recently pointed out.

Every time I say this there are people who dispute it. They are wrong. If you want to take the time to see why in detail, I did an extensive analysis of the media recounts here.

McManus may well believe this, as his paper has repeated this many times before. But I’m going to challenge them every time they do it.

Because it’s not true.

147 Responses to “L.A. Times: George Bush Came to the White House on the Strength of a Supreme Court Ruling”

  1. By the way, as with the last couple of days, I have had to turn on a caching mechanism just to keep the site up. This interferes with the appearance of comments, but for now, it is the only thing that keeps the site up. Efforts will be made to clean the cache from time to time, but as long as traffic is up, this problem will persist until someone can figure out a solution for me.

    I apologize, but I don’t know what else to do at this point.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  2. You could quit writing good posts, and the guests could do so as well. That would alleviate the traffic problems … ;-)

    JD (d1c83a)

  3. Let’s remember the Democrat Party “selected” Obama and did everything they could to keep Hillary from mounting a challenge at their convention.

    Dr. K (eca563)

  4. They must service Teh Narrative.

    JD (d1c83a)

  5. If the current problems with the comments are the result of exponentially increased traffic, then who cares about a minor problem such as this one?

    I hope more folks will keep challenging this meme – the old Stalinesque strategy of telling a lie often enough and people will eventually accept it as the truth is on display quite often these days.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  6. I’m not so sure you’re correct, Patterico. Just because the media recount shows Bush would have won doesn’t mean he would have won.

    Democrats always have a few extra tricks up their sleeve when it comes to recounts. When is the last time we won a recount? Bush was right to shut it down.

    Daryl Herbert (b65640)

  7. I think you make a fair point here, Patrick. The significance of the fact that George Bush won the media recounts is too often given less than its due on my side of the aisle.

    If Doyle McManus wanted to make the point that Bush took office in challenging circumstances (and got off to a strong start despite them), he could have found a more accurate way to put things.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  8. Just 2 simple points, or maybe 3.

    1) Bush won the recount that Gore was requesting.
    2) That whole popular vote hoo-ha is enough to ignore the author, as it is meaningless, and a Leftist canard.
    3) The idea that the Left was somehow a good loser, or afforded Bush a fair shake from Day 1 is laughable. They are still arguing this, dishonestly.

    JD (d1c83a)

  9. So, Tim, I hope that you no longer think of Mr. Frey as you used to post? What you wrote above was reasonable.

    Eric Blair (509000)

  10. Put the shoe on the other foot. How loud would liberal activists have howled had dan rather called the election in Fla. for Bush prior to the polls closing in the Panhandle? How would they react if Bush minions selectively chose what counties they wanted recounted? Imagine if the south Florida counties were controlled by GOP and the butterfly ballots were GOP designed? Funny how a number of lower liberal courts in Fla. gave rulings that went Bush’s way, but the standard should be whatever the lib activist STATE supreme court decided ex- post facto?
    Yes, I guess it was unfair that a number of clueless old Jooos in Boca and surrounding areas voted for Buchanan and really want algore. Of course our lib friends fail to recognize that dem activists were visiting nursing homes and filling out ballots for Gore to assist the alzheimers’ and senile clients. And when you think about it, were not the actual voting irregularities far greater in Chicago and Wisconsin???
    You don’t hear the ‘tards on this board complaining about the theft in Washington state or Stuart Smiley’s selective countings in Minn.

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  11. I have been saying this repeatedly since that election in 2000 : Under the Constitution of the State of Florida and Florida Election Law, there was no legal right to a recount. The Florida Supreme Court in accepting Al Gores petition for a one county recount ignored the Constitution, the Election Law and their oaths of office in directing a recount in three counties. The Supreme Court of the United States, all nine Justices agreeing, struck down this attempt at election stealing by the Florida Supreme Court. After four of the seven Florida Supreme Court Justices went ahead in an other illegal attempt to steal the election, two of the Federal Justices were agreeable but still seven Justices were true to their oath. BTW, to the law professors, practicing attorneys and law students who read Patterico, how many of you noticed that, although the Gore people requested a recount in only one county, the Florida Supreme Court added two other Democratic-stronghold counties? If this had happened in an earlier age, a Writ begining Quo Warranto would have been issued and the headsman would have started sharpening his ax.

    Longwalker (4e0dda)

  12. Didn’t the LA Times participate in the recount? I think they did, so they know full well that Bush won the Florida vote.

    Longwalker, I fully agree that a Democratic Florida Supreme Court tried to steal the election by deliberately ignoring Flordia law, but there’s a sticking point–isn’t the Florida Supreme Court the last word on the question of what is the law in Florida? Despite the fact that the result would have been the theft of a U.S. Presidential election, how exactly does the U.S. Supreme Court come to overrule the Florida Supreme Court on the state of Florida law?

    tim maguire (4a98f0)

  13. The difference in votes between Bush and Gore in the 2000 election popular vote was less than one half of one percent of the total votes cast, well within any reasonable margin of error. The 2000 popular vote was a tie.

    davidt (0c740c)

  14. The popular vote matters when discussing mandates and momentum, and Bush’s bare victory had neither. Sure, McManus is beating the dead horse a bit with the “selected not elected” rant, but as far as mandate is concerned, he has a point.

    What bothered me more about the article is how far out of his way he went to ignore Reagan’s sizable victory and the change he pushed through his first year, even though the Democrats controlled the House.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  15. Hey, even if Al Gore won the popular vote, and even if you use the one standard under which he’d have won the media recount, George W Bush became our 43rd President and Mr Gore became just another sore loser. Must suck to be him!

    Would it be wrong of me to have some hidden glee in thinking that Mr Gore goes to sleep every night thinking that he really won and wuz robbed? :)

    The snarky Dana (3e4784)

  16. I did some calculations on my own poor site, comparing what I paid in taxes in 2006 and 2007 with what I would have paid had I used the last rates under President Clinton, and discovered that, over just those two years, the Pico family saved $12,905 in federal income tax.

    Yup, I’m sure glad that George Bush won!

    The calculating Dana (3e4784)

  17. Comment by tim maguire — 4/21/2009 @ 9:12 am

    If you check, I think you’ll find that FL election law specifies that challenges are to be resolved by the Legislature, and that SCOTUS cited this point in its’ enjoinment of the FLSC for their actions.
    We can look back to FL-2000 as a dress rehersal of what ACORN is now doing in States across the land, but failed to recognize it as such at the time, or learn the lessons provided.

    AD (57cf22)

  18. …how exactly does the U.S. Supreme Court come to overrule the Florida Supreme Court on the state of Florida law? – tim maguire

    tim – 14th Amendment, Section 1: …No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    By ignoring Florida Law, the Florida Supreme Court ran afoul of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. Ignoring Florida Law denied Floridians of equal protection of the law.

    NewEnglandDevil (820235)

  19. Just because I like saying this, the one standard under which Gore would have won the media recount required votes that were clearly for Buchanan to be construed to be for Gore under the basis that the voters were confused.

    If you allow votes to be construed, then I’ll just construe all your votes for me because obviously your voters were confused.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  20. “I don’t want to argue about whether Obama is the new incarnation of FDR, other than to say that if he is, God help us all.”

    Second that.

    FDR: Worst president in U.S. history…no one else is even close.

    Dave Surls (de249f)

  21. Tim McGuire : AD has it right. Under the Florida Constitution, the Florida legislature (both houses sitting as one) is the supreme authority on elections. That is why the Florida legislature was called back into session when the Florida Supreme Court tried to steal the election. However, if the Florida legislature decided this matter, the entire judicial system would have been damaged. Imagine the seven Florida Supreme Court Justices appearing before the Florida Legislature and having to explain their actions. That is the primary reason why the United States Supreme Court actd as it did. Not to insure the election of Bush but to prevent the exposure of the actions of the Florida Supreme Court Justices and the resulting increased suspicion and disrespect regrding all judges.

    Longwalker (996c34)

  22. McManus is technically correct: Bush took office in the immediate aftermath of the Supreme Court ruling and long before any of the later recounts took place (yes, he would have ‘won’ anyway but who knew that at the time?)… and as Kevin #14 points out, as Bush didn’t win the popular vote, it was an accomplishment that his first 100 days was deemed a success.

    steve sturm (369bc6)

  23. steve sturm : As there was no basis in Florida Law for any recount, none of the so-called “recounts” matter. Bush “won” Florida under and in accordance with Florida Election Law the morning after the election when the last legally required recount was completed. Then the idiots took over with a “lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.” The media, especially the cable media, had a STORY and were not going to ruin it by pointing out the equivalent of ” Hey! Look! The Emperor was no clothes,” by stating that George W. Bush had won the Florida election and was the President-Elect. The only commentator that pointed out the fact that the election was over and that Bush had won was George Will but few noticed.

    Longwalker (996c34)

  24. I think the USSC should have quit with the first Bush v Gore decision that was 7 to 2. That decided the election. The second ruling, to stop counting, was 5 to 4 and that added to the furor and I think it was superfluous.

    Second, I think Roosevelt was a great president but his policies contributed to the lengthening of the Depression. The bank holiday and the FDIC are reforms that have stood the test of time, as has the SEC. The WPA and CCC kept men at work and were very beneficial in the health of young men. They added a lot to the ability of the Army to recruit men in 1941.

    The failure was the result of widespread ignorance in economics. We know all that now but they didn’t then. Some of his actions with respect to matters like the price of gold were inexcusable and probably due to his personality and the lofty disregard for detail that caused so many to underestimate him prior to 1932.

    He attracted a lot of Marxist followers, some of whom like Harry Dexter White, were actually communists and working for the Soviets. A lot of their initiatives were hare brained but there was a strong trend toward fascism at the time (also called progressive thought) that might never have died out except for Hitler. If Hitler had died in prison after the 1923 putsch in Munich, Mussolini might be a great historic figure. There was a lot of dissatisfaction with the effete liberal establishment in the late 20s and 30s that led many to look into dictators and fascism. Hitler made all that verboten but not until 1938 or even later.

    Mike K (8df289)

  25. “Roosevelt was a great president.”

    Don’t let a conservative hear you say that…

    danebramage (700c93)

  26. P: I agree with you that McManus’ mentioning the popular vote is misleading, since that is not how we pick presidents. But it’s undeniable that the conservative Supreme Court, by stopping the Florida recount, installed Bush II as president, and by a 5-4 margin at that.

    The recount, up into its halt, had all been going Gore’s way, and analysis has shown that his heavy-voting areas were where most of the potential disenfranchisement took place.

    A reasonable person might further conclude that if one liberal had been swapped for one conservative on that court, it would have been hello, President Gore, no Iraq War and ironically enough, perhaps no Obama either. I guess it all worked out in the end.

    Myron (98529a)

  27. Myron, if Florida had gone on with no Supreme Court are you saying Voter Fraud would have perpetuated (as in WA and MN)to install Gore as POTUS?

    Because fact is Bush won and morons like you are still disputing facts.

    HeavenSent (637168)

  28. #20 Dave, how true. Read “Men in Black” if you want all the gory details of just how bad FDR was and just how terribly he subverted the Constitution, with grave consequences. FDR was possibly (I still have hope) the beginning of the end for this country. He should have been hanged for what he did.

    Peg C. (48175e)

  29. Sorry, the deconstruction of FDR is in “Liberty and Tyranny.” I’m reading both so pardon the confusion.

    Peg C. (48175e)

  30. There are still a lot of Miss Havisham Democrats around.

    Amazing!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  31. Heavensent: You’re not really asking me a question, so there’s no need to frame it that way for dramatic effect and address it to me. Just make your nonsensical claim and get on with your life.

    BTW, you folks pushing the extreme-fringe and quite ridiculous belief that FDR was somehow a bad president have chosen a tough row to hoe. What’s your next project? To go after Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington?

    Myron (98529a)

  32. Myron’s logic is that if the unconstitutional interference of the Florida Supreme Court in the election process had been allowed to stand, Al Gore would have been President and that would have been a good thing.

    WOOT!!!!!

    I sometimes wonder how badly it hurts to be that stupid.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  33. Myron #26: …it would have been hello, President Gore, no Iraq War and ironically enough, perhaps no Obama either. I guess it all worked out in the end.

    It seems as if you’re suggesting that several thousand dead American troops (plus all the endless horrors attributed to Bush)was…worth it? So we could get Obama? Is that what you’re implying?

    KB (ebe67f)

  34. But it’s undeniable that the conservative Supreme Court, by stopping the Florida recount, installed Bush II as president, and by a 5-4 margin at that.

    That is complete hoo-ha. I deny it. The Supreme Court opinion in this was 7-2. There was a 5-4 vote on another issue related, but the first decision was the one that stopped the unconstitutional actions taken by the FL Supreme Court.

    The recount, up into its halt, had all been going Gore’s way, and analysis has shown that his heavy-voting areas were where most of the potential disenfranchisement took place.

    The recount, as asked for by Gore, was won by Bush.

    A reasonable person might further conclude that if one liberal had been swapped for one conservative on that court, it would have been hello, President Gore, no Iraq War and ironically enough, perhaps no Obama either. I guess it all worked out in the end.

    A reasonable person might also assume that if my aunt had nuts she would be my uncle.

    DSCSA's Unicorn (2e8bd8)

  35. Myron shows his ignorance by omitting the fact that the election was settled once the USSC ruled 7 to 2 that the Florida Supreme Court could not change the voting rules after the election. That’s why I think the 5 to 4 decision to stop voting was a mistake. Look what it did to Myron who might have been an intelligent fellow had he been left alone.

    My opinion of Roosevelt is based on about five biographies I’ve read so far. A lot of it is his wartime record but he also accomplished a lot that was worthwhile during the 30s. Not as much as the progressives think but more than some conservatives think.

    The British in 1939 were shocked at the state of the health and nutrition of military inductees, just as the US was shocked in 1918. The WPA and CCC accomplished a lot. That did not include ending the Depression, of course.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  36. Myron, never studied much history or economics, I take it.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. Myron – If the sun didn’t come up today it would still be yesterday.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  38. “I think Roosevelt was a great president”

    Oh, yeah. When it comes to getting Americans killed in a foreign war that was none of our business…nobody did it better.

    400,000 of our guys dead. Bang-up job, Frankie.

    And, of course, that was just one of the great man’s many achievements.

    Dave Surls (de249f)

  39. “The bank holiday and the FDIC are reforms that have stood the test of time…”

    LOL. All FDIC does is “let” you pay for bank failures whether you’re invested in that particular bank or not. Enjoy the privilege.

    As for myself, I sleep much easier knowing that the $200 I have in my checking account is guaranteed by the feds.

    Dave Surls (de249f)

  40. Myron, you are not even trying to be honest.

    Your arguing the 2000 Election Result by implying the USSC installed Bush — which is a flat-out lie.

    What installed Bush was the Florida Vote which he won on every recount taken.

    The fact you seem to believe that the USSC involvement somehow cost Mr Greenie in the Mansion the White House proves your dishonesty.

    Only ignorant peasants like you are still debating this.

    HeavenSent (637168)

  41. daleyrocks: No, that’s not my logic. Your reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired. My logic is that if all the votes had been counted in Florida — a process the U.S. Supreme Court halted — Al Gore would have been president.

    Unicorn: You can deny it all you want. Facts are bothersome things, they tell me. The Supreme Court stopped the count. Gore was gaining and would have overtaken Bush. The rest is history. Feel free to debate ad nauseum the details and believe whatever fiction you wish to believe. You won’t be the first person living in fantasyland, nor will you be the last. You might even go to the grave an ignoramus, too. I can’t help that. All I can do is keep walking through the darkness and carrying my torch.

    SPQR: I’m the one who didn’t study history? Youngster, get a clue. The opinion of Roosevelt presented by many folks in this comment section is mostly bunk — conservative talking-point claptrap. Among other holes in this “knowledge” — and I use the term very, very loosely — folks seem to be kind of forgetting that FDR was president during a little spat historians like to call World War II. We built our military and economic empire on that bulwark, so glibly dismissed by you kids here.

    Anyone presenting this obscene caricature of FDR would get laughed out of a room of historians or even a room full of well-read college students.

    Imagine if a chucklehead like Bush II had been president during those heady times. We’d all be speaking German or Japanese. The bright side I guess would be that our auto industry wouldn’t be moribund in 2009.

    Wake up people. Learn something about the country many of you — i would hope — profess to love.

    Myron (98529a)

  42. Surls,

    Japan was a war of necessity.

    Germany is debatable.

    Regardless, FDR was mimicking the Bush Doctrine. Lend/lease was going to war w/o declaring it.

    But don’t expect a dim-o-crattos to see the parrallels — WWII was a good war because errrr it was a good war whereas Vietnam and Iraq where awful wars of aggression run by bad Republican men.

    Forget Kennedy and Johnson.

    HeavenSent (637168)

  43. Myron,

    “Imagine if a chucklehead like Bush II had been president during those heady times. We’d all be speaking German or Japanese.”

    Last I checked it was Bush who won the peace in Iraq (finally) in spite of your sides’ desire to give it up when things got tough.

    Again, ignore facts to score points. Bush II might not be FDR on a historical scale but he won the only one he fought.

    HeavenSent (637168)

  44. Wake up people.

    Right after you pull your head out of your ass.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  45. KB: I’m saying that sometimes a nation must suffer in darkness before it gets it right. Maybe Bush II, or someone like him, had to happen before folks started to wake up. I don’t know.

    But perhaps Bush II saved us from a perhaps greater disaster – such as a Sarah Palin I. In a different era, she might have been taken seriously by people other than the tea-party crowd. I would have said that it’s hard to conceive of a worse president for our times than Bush, but Palin would be worse.

    But she is not viable. Why? After what the country has been through, Americans are getting down to business and cutting through the b.s. Which is why the current president remains popular despite a daily barrage of ad hominem attacks from FoxNews and the fringe. The right-wing cannot conceal the fact that Obama is doing something and they are doing nothing.

    I welcome the maturity I see in American voters. They’re no longer being bamboozled by Rove-ian tactics. God bless the U.S.A.

    Myron (98529a)

  46. My logic is that if all the votes had been counted in Florida — a process the U.S. Supreme Court halted — Al Gore would have been president.

    If my aunt had nuts she would be my uncle. I would also note that not even algore requested that ALL votes by recounted. By the recounts requested by algore, he lost. And let’s be honest, you did not want all of the votes recounted, since the Dems went to so much effort to disenfranchise so many military voters.

    Gore was gaining and would have overtaken Bush. The rest is history.

    Oh, please. Do expand on this for us. Because there is very little evidence for this. Again, by the recounts requested by algore, he lost.

    Why is it that every last troll comes in, immediately insults everyone, and then proclaims their intellectual superiority, while spewing nonsense?

    JD (2e8bd8)

  47. Anyone presenting this obscene caricature of FDR would get laughed out of a room of historians or even a room full of well-read college students.

    Are these the same college students who routinely misapply the correct century for conflicts like WWI, WWII and The Korean War? I have a strong feeling that many of us here would be the ones doing the laughing, regardless of the merits of the arguments presented here.

    Imagine if a chucklehead like Bush II had been president during those heady times.

    That’s some brilliant analysis, Myron. Do come by again, we usually don’t get that kind of insight here often.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  48. Heavensent: Yeah, FDR was mimicking the doctrine of George W. Bush, who was born after World War II.

    You’re the big intellect of this blog, I see.

    Myron (98529a)

  49. These are just random talking point generators, with different names. They all hate Sarah Palin, to be sure.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  50. But perhaps Bush II saved us from a perhaps greater disaster – such as a Sarah Palin I

    Gee, I wonder if Myron has any evidence for this inane prattle?

    But she is not viable. Why? After what the country has been through, Americans are getting down to business and cutting through the b.s.

    Yeah! We’re gittin’ tired of all that B.S. by folks like that Redneck Hayseed from a state no one around here’s ever heard of before!

    I welcome the maturity I see in American voters

    Of which you are not among those included.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  51. It’s the ever – present TrollBot 1000, JD.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  52. Myron, you really are an amusing one. I should not be astonished that there is so much ignorance of history these days.

    FDR extended the Great Depression, with his misguided policies, by at least 5 years. Worldwide, industrialized countries were returning to normal levels of employment by a half decade earlier than the US.

    FDR’s reelection campaign in 1940 was probably the most dishonest in history, as FDR was promising Americans that the US would stay out of the Second World War even as he was conspiring with the British to get us into the war, to the point of allowing British intelligence to operate unfettered in the US – both in spying and black ops against US citizens. Additionally, FDR deliberately provoked Germany, in an attempt to draw a declaration of war against, with aggressive military operations against Germany.

    FDR’s incompetence in prosecuting the war resulted in thousands of excessive casualties as FDR left the incompetent Douglas MacArthur in command to keep MacArthur from running against FDR for office. Also resulting in unnecessary casualties was FDR’s “unconditional surrender” announcement – which he freelanced without consulting with our ally Britain – which together with Treasury Secretary Morganthau’s public trial balloon of devastating Germany’s economy probably extended the European theatre war by five or six months.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  53. “No, that’s not my logic. Your reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired. My logic is that if all the votes had been counted in Florida — a process the U.S. Supreme Court halted — Al Gore would have been president.”

    Myron – If that is your logic you lose on both counts. You ignore the unconstitutional interference of the Florida Supreme Court to begin with and then ignore the results of the recounts which were actually completed after the fact.

    You’re 0-2 Myron. Do you need a license to go out in public?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  54. “Japan was a war of necessity.”

    We could have avoided it easily by minding our own business.

    Unfortunately, that’s something liberals are incapable of doing…hence our involvement in four bloody wars in Europe and Asia over the last 100 years, wars that cost 600,000 American lives, all over issues that were 100% none of our concern.

    All liberal Democrat presidents have been bad…and Roosevelt the worst of all.

    Dave Surls (de249f)

  55. “They’re no longer being bamboozled by Rove-ian tactics.”

    Myron – Rove didn’t bamboozle anybody, but now we’ve got American’s mesmerized by empty Obamian rhetoric about hope and change and a celebrity President who appears to be a dirty socialist on course to reshape America for the worse.

    Is this a great country or what?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  56. Second, I think Roosevelt was a great president but his policies contributed to the lengthening of the Depression.

    I’ll give him his due when it came to dealing with WWII, and certainly my astonishment that he had to manuever around all those Americans who believed that Hitler’s/Nazi Germany’s rise in Europe could be accomodated by the free world, and that we in the US therefore did not have to be more interventionist instead of isolationist.

    However, most of the sentimentality that has built up around FDR’s reputation through the decades is based on the belief his presence — via his policies and winning smile — helped us through the Great Depression, and, most importantly, helped tame (if not eliminate) the Great Depression. But scrutiny of the facts and records indicates he not only did not achieve that, he did just the opposite.

    So, in some ways, to say that FDR was a great president even though he exacerbated the effects of the Great Depression, calls to mind the phrase: “And other that THAT, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?!”

    Mark (411533)

  57. FDR was a great con man, Harry Truman himself called FDR a fakir.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  58. What I don’t get about Myron, timb, dscsa, etal. is this:

    You won. You have everything you want. The Presidency, the Congress and the majority in most states. President Obama can do absolutely anything he — and his supporters — want.

    So, why do you keep up this trolling? Yes, some people may still disagree with you, but they are marginalized. Go have a party. Slap each other on the back. You have it all. A great day is dawning.

    So, why do you persist? Is something missing in your life? If I were you I would be laughing all the way to the federally controlled bank.

    Ag80 (b19e67)

  59. Whoops. I said “federally controlled” rather than “federally owned.” The banks have been federally controlled for generations.

    Ag80 (b19e67)

  60. Heavensent: Is there peace in Iraq?

    But I do give him a little bit of credit for appointing someone competent — Gates — after years of sticking with someone incompetent — Rumsfled. Even though he was forced into the move by the Democratic takeover of 2006.

    So, yes, Bush’s actions help quell violence in a war he ginned up and we should never have fought. Gold star for the chucklehead.

    Myron (98529a)

  61. And I meant to say “Rumsfeld.”

    Myron (98529a)

  62. Yep, Myron, Iraq was a quiet little paradise before January 2001.

    You really are hilarious.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  63. Ag80, it isn’t enough for them to “win.” They know perfectly well that President Obama won’t be able to do the things he promised. That his “change” is not quite as “changey” as they hoped, while they drive around in cars with Kucinich bumper stickers.

    They hated GW Bush so much that anything that President Obama does, no matter how odd (like hectoring voters about the dangers of deficit spending, and then doing what he is doing now…) must be wonderful fuzzy bunny perfection in a cloud of butterflies. They have no choice. Otherwise, they might have been…wrong.

    They must keep up the pressure, silence opposition, become the things that they hated, in their pursuit of “perfection.”

    Remember the comments about the “The Republican Noise Machine”? Well, look at our trolls, and tell me how their actions differ from the things that they said they detested from the Right?

    Also, many of the trolls could care less about political facts. Good Lord, look at some of their incredibly boneheaded comments! It’s all about the fighting and arguing. It makes them feel tough and strong.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  64. Gore was gaining and would have overtaken Bush.

    Repeating something over and over doesn’t make it true.

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  65. This is typical behavior. It ignores multiple substantive refutations of its asspulls, and focuses in on its topic of choice, in this case Chimpy McHitler$urton’s illegal war of choice.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  66. Eric, I envision the Obama cultist trolls working blogs as the virtual equivalent of sticking their fingers in the ears and chanting “nyaa nyaa nyaa” so they don’t have to notice that Obama has already sold them out.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  67. So…

    “…Gore was gaining and would have overtaken Bush….”

    Why, that is just how I feel about Norm Coleman beating Al Franken! I hope you do, too.

    But strangely, not every vote appears to count in that particular election. It’s different.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)


  68. Gore was gaining and would have overtaken Bush.

    Repeating something over and over doesn’t make it true.

    I should add that thinking that repeating it over and over makes it true is evidence of mental problems.

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  69. ____________________________________________

    So, why do you persist? Is something missing in your life?
    newscientist.com:

    Why conservatives are happier than liberals

    The exuberance displayed by Barack Obama’s supporters might make Republicans look like geriatric chess enthusiasts, but a new survey suggests that conservatives are happier than liberals – and offers one reason why.

    Liberals, claim New York University psychologists Jaime Napier and John Tost, have a tougher time rationalising social and economic inequality than conservatives.

    [T]he happiness divide seems to be real. Previous studies, including a 2006 survey from Pew Research Center have found the same general trend, much to the delight of conservative pundits like George Will, who noted that “liberalism is a complicated and exacting, not to say grim and scolding, creed.”

    To add some ammo to these explanations, Napier and Tost conducted a series of surveys on political attitudes of Americans and citizens of 8 Western countries, using previously collected data. Their results affirmed the “conservatives are happy, liberals are mad” findings of previous polls, but income, education, religion and other demographic variables couldn’t explain the happiness gap.

    This trend held for non-Americans, as well. Right-wingers in the Czech Republic, Germany, New Zealand, Norway, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland were all happier than liberals, on average. And the poorer – and presumably more unequal – a country, the greater the happiness divide.
    ________________________________

    George F. Will, February 2006:

    To bemused conservatives, it looks like yet another example of analytic overkill by the intelligentsia — a jobs program for the (mostly liberal) academic boys (and girls) in the social sciences, whose quantitative tools have been brought to bear to prove the obvious.

    A survey by the Pew Research Center shows that conservatives are happier than liberals — in all income groups. While 34 percent of all Americans call themselves “very happy,” only 28 percent of liberal Democrats (and 31 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats) do, compared with 47 percent of conservative Republicans. This finding is niftily self-reinforcing: It depresses liberals.

    Election results do not explain this happiness gap. Republicans have been happier than Democrats every year since the survey began in 1972. Married people and religious people are especially disposed to happiness, and both cohorts vote more conservatively than does the nation as a whole.

    Mark (411533)

  70. JD: I’ve got your troll swinging.

    DMAC: I welcome links to books by serious scholars who conclude FDR is one of the worst presidents. It’s the nonsensical overstatement here that I am reacting to. This seems to be part and parcel with the conservative side and why the GOP cannot be taken seriously and why one of its better senators is about to lose to a comedian and why Republicans can’t even deliver “gimmes” like NY-20. The GOP has lost all respect.

    Conservatism is not by nature, dumb and unprincipled, not by a long shot. But the standard-bearers of conservative beliefs have made it into both, a laughingstock. When a few lightly educated people here go around talking about FDR was the worst president, it’s of a stripe of what I’m talking about.

    Was he flawed? Yes. They all are. But to suggest he was somehow one of the worst or put us on the road to ruin as some folks above have claimed — is just ignorant.

    Myron (98529a)

  71. ” …after years of sticking with someone incompetent — Rumsfled”

    Sheesh, when Democrats gave us Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, you really got to be quite a clown to write that phrase.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  72. Surls: “We could have avoided it easily by minding our own business.”

    Again, this is what I’m talking about. Ignore Japan and Pearl Harbor? Youngster, we were ATTACKED.

    Myron (98529a)

  73. All you commenters are lightly educated and ignorant.

    Myron said so.

    Feel the burn!

    END OF THREAD!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  74. “…When a few lightly educated people here go around talking about FDR was the worst president, it’s of a stripe of what I’m talking about….”

    Because you split atoms. With your mind.

    (hat tip to Ace)

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  75. EW1(SG): Classy! Putting that 8th grade education to use, I see.

    Myron (98529a)

  76. Myron knows things. All bow to his superior wisdom.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  77. Myron said:

    Surls: “We could have avoided it easily by minding our own business.”

    Again, this is what I’m talking about. Ignore Japan and Pearl Harbor? Youngster, we were ATTACKED.

    That is the most astonishing comment I’ve ever seen on this, or any other, blog.

    Ag80 (b19e67)

  78. SPQR, Ohanian and Cole are lightly educated, too.

    See?

    http://www.econ.ucla.edu/people/papers/Ohanian/OhanianCV.pdf

    http://www.ssc.upenn.edu/~colehl//pdf/Vitae.pdf

    Unlike Myron.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  79. Ag80, he never heard about those unilateral cowboy diplomacy actions FDR took against Japan evidently.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  80. So, yes, Bush’s actions help quell violence in a war he ginned up

    Spoken by a liberal who I’m sure believes his ideology rests on a lovely sea of compassion, love and humaneness. Never mind he’s likely less bothered by the Butcher of Baghdad — and the living horror he foisted upon his people — than the things “ginned up” by George Bush.

    Mark (411533)

  81. Yep, Eric. Its a fascinating paper frankly, which debunks key parts of the mythology of FDR and the Great Depression.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  82. Ag80: Finally, a smart question.

    And I’ll try to answer it honestly.

    I read a few conservative blogs — the ones that are readable and not just ranting. I have been reading them for quite some time, b/c I want to see what the other side is thinking.

    Most of them, I don’t comment on, b/c really, it’s not my business, generally. And just as a practical matter, I would have gotten “blammed” on a site like redstate in the first few minutes. So I appreciate Patterico having the sack to let people have at it on the blogs. There is nothing to fear from other people’s opinions.

    Since the election, I have become particularly fascinated in watching Republicans rip each other apart and conservatives excommunicate everyone who is not a doctrinaire who is more Reagan than even Reagan was. It’s like a watching a slow-motion train-wreck — all the angst and bitterness.

    This fascination for the angsty bickering also explains the thing we who tilt left have for Sarah Palin (and I don’t mean in the Eminem sense, or maybe I do, at least a little. She’s fine.)

    We know that Sarah Palin is not only personally fascinating with her “hillbilly hijinks,” winking and thigh-high boots, but is also right at the fault line where conservatives split. This was clear to me when I read a piece by normally respectable Charles Krauthammer claiming that there is no such thing as the Bush Doctrine so he could defend Palin’s ignorance of it. I was ashamed for him. I even wondered if he had gotten paid, like Armstrong Williams. I knew that this kind of intellectual whoredom by smart conservatives and moderates could not continue, and as you all know better than me, it has not. I find it entirely unsurprising that McCain “conveniently” left her off his list of 2012 possibilities.

    Basically, I am hoping Palin and her type can still generate an actual split in the Republican Party, although she is such a joke at this point, I don’t know. The GOP religious right is just emotional enough to break away, and she is their champion. Even your erstwhile prophet Newt suggested a split is possible, though along different fault-lines. Carville says it will be this year, but I think that’s optimistic.

    In the long run, a GOP split could pave the way for a true left party and multiple parties. So I see the crackup of the GOP as potentially good for America — on every conceivable level. In the mean time, you right-wingers will be out of the way so the rest of us can get going on some long-standing problems that Bush II either created or ignored, from climate change to health care to energy to … well you get the picture.

    I know that you won’t wake up, of course, but there is a part of me that yet thinks you will. You did, after all, pick McCain, easily the best candidate in a piss-poor field.

    I apologize for the long-winded response, but I wanted to answer your question as honestly as I could.

    Myron (98529a)

  83. Oh, and Michael Steele has been a gift, too. A national treasure.

    Myron (98529a)

  84. That was as predictable as the sun rising.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  85. SPQR: Iraq wasn’t a paradise. But it wasn’t our problem. And it didn’t have Al-Qaeda.

    You might truly be surprised to realize that the world is full of places that are not paradises. We don’t have the resources to fix them all. Which is why we normally focus on ones that affect our security — either politically, militarily or economically.

    Daddy Bush had it right: When Iraq stepped out of line, he pushed them back. Clinton continued the policy of boxing them in, via the no-fly zone.

    Bush II should have read his own dad’s book, wherein his pops warned against an invasion.

    Myron (98529a)

  86. Spoken by a liberal who I’m sure believes his ideology rests on a lovely sea of compassion, love and humaneness.

    Naw, Mark. My ideology is based on realpolitik. We had no strategic interest in attacking Iraq. Plenty of countries are ruled by tyrants — even our “betrothed,” Saudi Arabia.

    This blog is great.

    Let me get this straight.

    We should NOT have attacked Japan, which bombed Pearl Harbor.

    We SHOULD have attacked Iraq, which was contained and had not attacked us and had — all together now — NO WMD.

    I think I get it now. Thanks for schooling me, professors.

    Myron (98529a)

  87. That was as predictable as the sun rising.

    I’ve learned I’ve gotta make it simple for you, sometimes.

    Myron (98529a)

  88. And it didn’t have Al-Qaeda.

    Give this one enough time tonite and it is liable to trot out every last Leftist canard out there.

    Ansar Al-Islam? Abu Nidal? Zarq? Nah. They did not exist in Iraq prior to the smirky cowboy ride through the sandbox.

    Nothing in the entire world changed between President Bush 41 President Clinton, and President Bush 43. Nothing.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  89. What is it with the drive-by’s that feel compelled to proclaim their intellectual superiority, yet are unable to actually demonstrate same?

    JD (2e8bd8)

  90. Putting that 8th grade education to use, I see.

    Puts me four grades ahead of you.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  91. Myron:

    With all due respect, thanks for the response.

    And I will be as circumspect as possible. Do you know what conservatives actually believe? It’s really not that weird.

    Also, what is your deal with Palin (winking and thigh-high boots)?

    Finally, it’s OK if you want the government to run your life. I don’t. That’s why I used to be a liberal.

    Ag80 (b19e67)

  92. — NO WMD.

    Except for the hundreds and hundreds … and another hundred and some recovered from late 2003 to early 2005.

    Thanks for schooling me, professors.

    You’re welcome.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  93. BTW, while we’ve been talking about all these nice things, you guys got “posterized” by Obama and the crew — once again.

    Wasn’t it at this very site that I read the expansion of national youth service was a version of “Hitler youth”? More nonsense, of course. Well, whatever, it got signed, today, while your panties are bunched-up over memos of discontinued torture tactics.

    Your side can’t even keep up, much less present a principled opposition.

    And Eric Blair above says we’re the ones worried that Obama won’t get his agenda through. I think the “tea party” whining showed who is worried.

    OK, on that note, I’m raising up and bouncing. (Translation: Leaving) It’s been fun playing the dozens with you guys. You’re a real hoot. I’d love to one day see your list of “best presidents.”

    Bush II would lead the list I’m sure. Followed by Herbert Hoover, Andrew Johnson, William Henry Harrison …

    Myron (98529a)

  94. Did you all catch the word and phrase choices by Myron? I think he has been here a long, long time…either reading posts by some of our favorite trolls (over and over again, it would appear). Or perhaps wearing a sock or three.

    It doesn’t matter. But do note the continual barrage of insults. And they are all connected to his apparent superiority. For all of his insults toward others being immature, it would seem his own approach is not terrifically adult, either.

    Hmmm. TdJ.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  95. I think he has been here a long, long time

    Eric: Caught your comment on my way out. This is no great revelation, considering I said it myself in a prior post. Here we get to another problem: Many of you cats don’t read. You pretend to.

    Frackin’ MTV generation.

    Peace.

    Myron (98529a)

  96. It is endlessly amusing to me how the Left is pushing this meme that the Right is out in the wildnerness so far that they can never be influential again. The Dems lost 2 consecutive Presidential elections, around a decade of House elections, and Republicans controlled The Presidency, House, and Senate. There were divisions within the party, yet they managed to retake the House, Senate, and Presidency.

    Somehow the Left seems to think that if they simply keep typing/saying things like Myron the Magnificent did above, Republicans, and more importantly, conservatives, will simply cease to exist.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  97. Hey, I thought you were leaving, home slice?

    You know what I mean. We’ll catch you when you put the sock o the arm.

    And on the subject of reading….well, you know the rest, I’m sure.

    You seem very sure of your own superiority. Gosh, I wonder why?

    Good luck on midterms.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  98. Heh, I used to watch MTV when they first showed up. But back then, they actually played music. :P

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  99. Myron,

    Idiot Point 1. Clearly Bush was post FDR — the point is FDR provoked war for purpose of advancing a belief he had and many shared. Like George Bush. Yet you suck FDR’s thing but biting off George’s.

    Idiot Point 2. Has George Bush won the peace in Iraq? Um, yes. Took longer than we wanted and requires us now investing in peace ala the Marshall Plan but …. looks like it is working.

    To argue the 200 election (again) is just nuts after the 7 recounts. You lost. Get over it.

    Enjoy the Rev Obama the next few.

    HeavenSent (637168)

  100. Eric – This one is a perfect example of the Eternal Leftist Conceit.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  101. “I think the “tea party” whining showed who is worried.”

    Myron – I think that would be the left and the liberal media who were doing all the whining. Thanks for pointing it out.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  102. Myron said:

    Eric: Caught your comment on my way out. This is no great revelation, considering I said it myself in a prior post. Here we get to another problem: Many of you cats don’t read. You pretend to.

    Frackin’ MTV generation.

    Peace.

    And, yet we do read. You keep making some sort of point that people who post here are, I don’t know, younger, or not as well informed as you.

    Why is that? What should we be reading to bring us up to speed to your intellect?

    Ag80 (b19e67)

  103. Myron – Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor? Riddle that one through your addled liberal brain. Surely they weren’t induced to do that by FDR, were they?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  104. Mandatory Volunteerism !!!!!!!!!! WOOT !!!!!!!

    I am sure that this turdlet will make its way to the list of Barcky’s “accomplishments”, because we all know it is terribly difficult to pass Leftist legislation through a Leftist House and a Leftist Senate, and have it signed by a Leftist President.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  105. Myron still thinks Gore won the 2000 election and he says we (Conservatives) can’t read?

    Earth to Myron. Earth to Myron.

    Anyone catch the Political poll which showed self proclaimed Republicans know more about current events than Democrats.

    Myron, any thoughts other than to debate the data and call it “wrong?”

    What an idiot. BOUNCE!

    HeavenSent (637168)

  106. BTW, that YouTube link I dropped up above is a good link to view.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  107. Ag80, our friend Myron is being what he considers subtle, by mixing and matching different pop culture television phrases.

    Hey, I could be wrong (something not to be heard from the likes of Myron), but I suspect he is in college or just out. The sneering superiority, the lack of basic historical knowledge, the lack of curiosity about things outside his own experience…a certainty of world view, Howard Zinn style.

    And it’s fine. I loved the attack on intelligence and education. Because everyone knows if you disagree with someone politically, it must be because they are stupid.

    It ain’t a mature outlook. Hey, the guy could be a Captain of Industry (no, not that troll). But his posts are pretty pugnacious and snide for a grownup.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  108. Eric:

    You’re probably right.

    But, as I stated to him/her: What’s the point? They have nothing to argue. Go change the world.

    Why are Myron and the others posting here? Shouldn’t they be monitoring carbon emissions or confiscating guns or something that is useful in their lives?

    Ag80 (b19e67)

  109. Well, Ag80, despite all their mad skillz and vast intelligence, I don’t think that the Obama Administration is calling any of them to serve, you know?

    So they need to play games on the Internet.

    It must burn them something fierce when Kumar gets called to help out in the White House. Okay, the guy played a doctor, too. But I’ll always think of him in “Harold and Kumar.”

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  110. Ag – As Myron told us, they are going to fix global warming. He was not really clear on the details, but I have no doubt that it will involve higher taxes, higher prices, and it will be the fault of conservatives.

    JD (2e8bd8)

  111. #71 Um spork, you have a tong out of place. The Ford Motor Company gave America the Robert MacNamara body count mind set. And old Henry most definitely held a conservative POV in his life and his business affairs. Ask Adolf.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  112. It went all Hitler on us …

    JD (2e8bd8)

  113. “Again, this is what I’m talking about. Ignore Japan and Pearl Harbor? Youngster, we were ATTACKED.”

    Of course, they did. We cut off their oil supply. What do you think they’re going to do?

    Solution: Don’t cut their oil supply off….unless you’re planning on fighting a war…which is exactly what Roosevelt and his crew were planning on.

    And, their little plans ended up getting 400,000 Americans killed in a war that we had absolutely no stake in.

    And, that’s a bad thing.

    Dave Surls (de249f)

  114. Two points.

    One, if you habitually dislike the flavor of the news printed in the Los Angeles Times, why do you keep drinking it in? Pretend it’s a diet soda and stop consuming it, belch, smile, and feel better.

    Two. I don’t want to argue about whether Obama is the new incarnation of FDR, other than to say that if he is, God help us all.

    Yet you teed it up all the same.

    Well, God helped you by giving a pair of eyes to read and ears to hear the echoes of the following of late:

    “The government [is] determined not only to save the system, but also to remove from it the abuses, evils, and widespread maladjustments which had brought it to the very brink of destruction. The government [is] determined that the system, thus preserved and reformed, should no longer be subject to the control of the handful of men and corporations that had dominated it in the false boom days…

    To carry out that determination was to resist… all efforts of the mighty forces– day by day, year by year. These forces have tremendous interests at stake– wealth, privilege, economic power, political power. Although few in number, they [have] the resources which enabled them to make the most noise, and to become the most vociferous in the press, over the radio, through the newspaper and outdoor advertising, by floods of telegrams and letters to the Congress by employment of professional lobbyists– by all the many means of propaganda and public pressure which have been developed in recent years.

    Their activities to impede progress and to bring about a repeal [of ...] reform were redoubled.”

    (The best of Boss Limbaugh and the Dittoheads comes to mind, of course, with such hits as “The Parkinson’s Jig”, “The Hundred Days Rag” and “Fail To The Chief.”)

    Indeed, consider this:

    “The [recent] recession was seized upon by opponents of reform and liberal government as a great talking point from which to urge that, unless the whole business of reform and progress were stopped right away, the industrial system of America would collapse and the government itself would become bankrupt. All of the big guns of pressure politics and modern propaganda were brought into play… to try to strike down liberalism in the Congress and the executive branch of government.

    The policy of the federal government, however, [continues] to follow the only path of true recovery and the only assurance of preservation of our system of private profit and free enterprise– the continuance of social reform and progressive legislation. The opposition to [reform] developed into ‘blitzkrieg’ proportions. Misrepresentations as to motives, and falsehoods as to objectives and results, became common practice, especially in the columns of some of the largest newspapers.”

    For a more comprehesive read, get a few copies of Collier’s from September and October, 1941, or the volumes entitled, “Public Papers” by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

    What goes around comes around. Now blink a few times and see God has indeed helped us all– even conservatives. Go figure. Obama is President of the United States, not John McCain and most thankfully not George W. Bush.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  115. He’s baaaaaack.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  116. And DCSCA hasn’t documented his claim that the guy in the tea party video was yelling “Fascist”

    And DCSCA hasn’t taken responsibility for his vile comments about Tony Snow’s death.

    Coward.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  117. But he has changed the subject and called people names.

    So that’s all good, Bradley.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  118. Republicans have been happier than Democrats every year since the survey began in 1972. Apparently, in George Will’s universe, they also don’t wear blue jeans either. Reagan must have been miserable in those ranch-worn denims.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  119. ….FDR was a great president even though he exacerbated the effects of the Great Depression. This is simply inaccurate. And of late a hobby pursued by conservatives to rewrite history. Read FDR’s Public Papers, published in 1941. The facts bear out the successes of liberal government with the strong support of Americans in the face of relentless, obsessive conservative opposition to thwart, inhibit and block his administration. It’s very much like what Obama is facing today. Even the verbage is similar. Twain was right. History doesnt repeat itself but it often rhymes.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  120. Mike K : The first vote by SCOTUS was 9-0 in favor of Bush. All nine Justices stated that the Florida Supreme Court had no authority, under Florida Law, to act as they did. The recount issue is a “red herring.” As Gore had no right to a recount under Florida Election Law, those recounts were exercises in futility.

    BTW, both sides in this thread need to go back to their history books. Roosevelt’s convoy operations were against Germany not against Japan. If the Japanese fanatics had not either killed off or frightened off their best strategists, there would not have been a “Pearl Harbor.” The attack on Pearl Harbor was a tactical success but a strategic blunder. If Japan had avoided any conflict with the United States and had, instead, attacked only the British and Dutch possessions and occupied the French possessions, Roosevelt would have not been able to muster sufficient votes in Congress to take us into the war. To save Austrailia and New Zealand, the British would have had to make peace with the Axis powers. Within a few years, the world would be dominated by the Axis Powers and the United States would have no allies.

    Longwalker (996c34)

  121. Just for the record, there are not that many extreme isolationists the likes of Surls.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  122. I read a piece by normally respectable Charles Krauthammer claiming that there is no such thing as the Bush Doctrine so he could defend Palin’s ignorance of it. I was ashamed for him.

    So tell us genius what is “The Bush Doctrine”, what established it and when, what exactly attached the name “The Bush Doctrine” to that particular doctrine, as opposed to other doctrines that were put forward during the Bush years, etc. Tell us exactly why anyone should have immediately known what that refers to.

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  123. DCSCA, #141 – more of your utter fabrications. It is not “conservatives” who have established FDR’s exacerbation of the Great Depression. It is economists.

    Yet another topic where you display your incompetence and willingness to fabricate.

    And your #113 is just supremely incoherent where you try to blame Henry Ford for JFK’s appointment of Robert McNamara through some circuitous chain of illogic and drool.

    SPQR (72771e)

  124. Myron writes this silliness: “You might truly be surprised to realize that the world is full of places that are not paradises. We don’t have the resources to fix them all. Which is why we normally focus on ones that affect our security — either politically, militarily or economically.

    Once again, Myron shows us his ignorance of the recent events he purports to opine upon. A bipartisan consensus existed before 2003 that Iraq was a threat to our security. Trying to rewrite that is what has made Democratic talking points on Iraq so brazenly dishonest, and you so incompetent.

    SPQR (72771e)

  125. “Just for the record, there are not that many extreme isolationists the likes of Surls.”

    True story.

    And, we have the death toll to prove it…

    WWI- 100,000

    WWII- 400,000

    Korea- 35,000

    Vietnam- 60,000

    Dave Surls (e4de72)

  126. FDR was a great president even though he exacerbated the effects of the Great Depression. This is simply inaccurate. And of late a hobby pursued by conservatives to rewrite history. Read FDR’s Public Papers, published in 1941. The facts bear out the successes of liberal government with the strong support of Americans in the face of relentless, obsessive conservative opposition to thwart, inhibit and block his administration. It’s very much like what Obama is facing today. Even the verbage is similar. Twain was right. History doesnt repeat itself but it often rhymes.

    This has been linked to on numerous occasions at this site:

    FDR’s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

    which contrasts with your fact-free formulation, which is actually about conservatives and has nothing to do with the actual economic record.

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  127. Of course, they did. We cut off their oil supply. What do you think they’re going to do?

    Solution: Don’t cut their oil supply off….unless you’re planning on fighting a war…which is exactly what Roosevelt and his crew were planning on.

    Let me see whether I understand you correctly: are you saying it was okay for Japan to attack the US over oil?

    If so, would it then be okay for the US to attack another country over oil? Or does this rule apply only to countries attacking the US?

    Steverino (69d941)

  128. You see, Steverino, it is not alright for the US to protect the lives or rights of non-Americans, except when those non-Americans are in the US illegally or when those non-Americans attack Americans. If some thug wants to take over the world, we have to sit back and let him do whatever, and we have to continue selling things to him as if he wasn’t doing anything wrong. Only when we’re the last free country standing and he attacks us can we do anything. But we still have to protect his right to attack us.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  129. Steverino, it was not “OK” for Japan to attack us ( and the British and Dutch too by the way ). However, with reference to the actions of the FDR administration, it was intended to provoke Japan into doing so. Pearl Harbor itself was a surprise, but that Japan went to war with us over the economic sanctions we imposed over their war in China, occupation of Indochina etc., was not. FDR was not trying to “reset” relations with Japan, nor was he trying to “listen to our enemies concerns”.

    SPQR (72771e)

  130. “Let me see whether I understand you correctly: are you saying it was okay for Japan to attack the US over oil?”

    Nope.

    Dave Surls (e4de72)

  131. “Let me see whether I understand you correctly: are you saying it was okay for Japan to attack the US over oil?”

    Nope.

    So, it wasn’t okay for Japan to attack the US. Does it then follow that it was okay for US to go to war against Japan because of it?

    Steverino (69d941)

  132. “So, it wasn’t okay for Japan to attack the US.”

    I wasn’t addressing that issue. I was simply saying that if we cut Japan’s oil supply off, then they ARE going to go to war with us, so if you want to avoid war, then it’s best not to slap an oil embargo on them.

    Personally, I wouldn’t have wanted to go to war with Japan, so if I’d been running the country in 1941…I wouldn’t have cut off their oil.

    Roosevelt and his crew did do that (and a whole lot of other unbelievably stupid things), and because of their policies, hundreds of thousands of Americans were killed in a war that was totally none of our business.

    And…Roosevelt was the worst president in U.S. history…by far.

    Dave Surls (e4de72)

  133. Myron obviously hasn’t read the various academic and media-pool recounts, which were exhaustive. Their unanimous conclusion is that SCOTUS’s stay did not change the outcome.

    Myron either has deliberately chosen to remain ignorant of this fact by not clicking the link right in this very entry, or he has read them and is a knowing liar.

    Mitch (890cbf)

  134. #125- MacNamara was a protege of Ioccoca at Ford, spork. Better bone up on the Best and the Brightest.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  135. #125- read Public Papers by FDR, spork.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  136. Oh, I don’t think that today is great day to be visible on this blog, DCSCA, given your previous posts. But hey, don’t let me stop you.

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  137. “MacNamara was a protege of Ioccoca at Ford, spork.”

    Really? They both joined Ford the same year, but McNamara was the first non-family member to be named President of the company in 1960. Iacocca was named President of the Ford Division in 1964. Get your facts straight, numbnuts.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  138. DCSCA lied last night when it falsely claimed Camp Pendleton was getting construction from bailout money. I wrote about the construction plans last summer, before the bailouts. So I know first-hand that DSCSA lied about its pretended knowledge of San Diego.

    DCSCA also lied about the alleged “fascist” chant at the tea party protests, and made vile comments on Tony Snow’s death.

    DCSCA, your hatespeech about Tony Snow’s death is going to get lots of Googlejuice when your Democratic masters look for your accomplishments. I’ll make sure to keep posting the link so people can see what an ethical pygmy and moral bankrupt you are.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  139. DCSCA is a liar and fabricator and does not deserve responses. Suit yourself but behavior rewarded results in more of it.

    ” Japan had avoided any conflict with the United States and had, instead, attacked only the British and Dutch possessions and occupied the French possessions, Roosevelt would have not been able to muster sufficient votes in Congress to take us into the war.”

    This is undoubtedly true and is also why we were surprised at Pearl Harbor. More importantly, if Hitler had not been so foolish and overconfident as to declare war on us, Roosevelt might not have been able to get Congress to declare war on both Germany and Japan.

    MIke K (2cf494)

  140. Bradley – Please don’t insult pygmies by comparing them to ASPCA.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  141. daley, that is SO going to leave a mark. Nice one!

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  142. DCSCA,

    Of course FDR’s not going to blame the whole mess on himself. He’s going to state that his programs were a success and that everyone in America likes him. He may even believe it. It doesn’t make it true.

    Civilis (2e2abe)

  143. DCSCA thought it was sooooooooo clever, making those insidery-sounding references to Qualcomm, Petco and all things San Diegan. Mike K., that was simply too juicy a target for this native San Diegan to resist.

    My apologies to pygmies, er, vertically-challenged African-Africans. But I’d like to see responses to DCSCA’s disinformation include the phrase “ethical pygmy”, just so the troll shows up with the phrase in Google.

    Yes we can!

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  144. You had better watch it, Bradley, or you will get called juvenile names!

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  145. [...] paper resurrected its oft-repeated canard that George W. Bush came to power through the strength of a Supreme Court ruling — rather [...]

    Patterico's Pontifications » Patterico’s Los Angeles Dog Trainer Year in Review 2009 (e4ab32)


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