Patterico's Pontifications

4/18/2009

What Would Jesus *Not* Do?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:32 pm

It’s the video even the athiests are scared to post!

This is unlikely to go over well on a conservative site, but I find it amusing. Anyone who wants to take it seriously ought to grapple with the issues raised, but it’s OK just to laugh.

24 Responses to “What Would Jesus *Not* Do?”

  1. I’ve got something better. It’s Greek Easter. The first video is a Byzantine troparion. The second is Byzantine transposed into Western scale. Sung by Irene Pappas, arrangement by Vangellis.

    nk (0214d0)

  2. The angels have a few good points, but if Jesus brought scientific discoveries of the sort suggested, zealots would have even more doggedly tried to stamp out what he brought. Remember, everything from advanced analog computers to the finest plays were destroyed in the Library of Alexandria, and presumably many homes.

    Instead, if perhaps under some arcane parables, Straussian Text, and a few other methods of enciphering and misdirection, he introduced an advanced philosophy of non-violence civil disobedient action and liberty from state despots not rediscovered until William Penn founded the Pennsylvania colony, where the ideals that founded America were first introduced.

    In my view, this subtle philosophy that toppled the Roman Empire, founded the Byzantine side, and later founded America, benefited the world more than one science would have, as a science isn’t a strategic vision that can accomplish anything against overwhelming force.

    Typewriter_King (afd087)

  3. It’s the video even the athiests are scared to post!

    Nah, that would be a video pointing out that Mohammed was a surprisingly ruthless person who assassinated those who merely mocked him, much less those guilty in his eyes of far worse transgressions.

    And that fanatics doing their deeds in the name of Islam (eg, those who flew some planes into the World Trade Center) really aren’t necessarily stretching the truth — or totally deluding themselves theologically — if they believe Mohammed would have approved of such behavior.

    Mark (411533)

  4. Oh, I agree, Mark.

    Piss Christ” wasn’t edgy.

    Piss Mohammed”—now that would be edgy.

    But we won’t see its like at art exhibitions. I wonder why?

    Eric Blair (ad3775)

  5. “Piss Mohammad” funded by the National Endowment for the Arts. Edgier still.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  6. Yes, yes, please god make all human suffering go away! And make things extremely easy for us! No, easier than that even! I don’t ever want to strive for anything! I don’t ever want to reveal my own real nature! I don’t want to have to learn empathy! I don’t want to strive! Just hand me the food, turn on the lights for me, and make it so I can screw anything that moves without any fear of consequence, or else you’re not real god!

    Boo hoo.

    xerocky (bd4974)

  7. Well Patterico, being a lawyer we all know that you have no soul. For those of us who do, however, that video misses some serious ontological and philosophical implications of man’s fallen nature. (Perhaps the producers of the clip skipped over that part of Genesis.) Xerocky points to some of them sarcastically quite effectively above. Stick to things in the realm of man and man’s law, because you are clearly ignorant of the realm of God and God’s nature. Pitty really, for you.

    Steve (fc3231)

  8. Ah, a Monty Python-esque presentation on the question of evil.

    Instead of giving us pencillin in 20AD, why not go a step further and just eliminate death? If not, how about eliminating evil by taking away the freedom to make bad choices?

    Good video. I enjoyed it.

    Roy Mustang (9deca0)

  9. “Butbutbut the whole point of human existence is to find out things about the physical world! And make earthly life more comfortable and pleaaant! And if you’d just tell them things now to make them as sophisticated and advanced and cosmopolitan as they will be all by themselves in the year 2009, then that’ll be awesome and show them you’re really God! Otherwise why should anyone listen to you?” –strawangels, assuming several premises

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  10. Christ, what a douchebag.

    s8n666 (c06750)

  11. Comment 9. nails it, so to speak. The video’s script reveals much more about its creator than it does mine.

    Straw angels, LOL, will remember that one.

    Ray (8cfb7a)

  12. Yes that’s it. Let me create a race of beings that have no strife and all knowledge. Wait a minute, I did that already with the angels. No, this time I will give them free will and allow them to live with the consequences of that free will. I will only intervene enough for them to know I AM and that I love them. I think I’m on to something this time. This might just be the pinnacle of my creation.

    God (b2ae50)

  13. Comment by nk — 4/18/2009 @ 10:57 pm

    nk, those were beautiful. Esp. # 2.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  14. Thank you, noyk. If you would like to hear a troparion from The Passion (Good Friday), it’s here. Byzantine music can be accompanied by instruments, without transposing, provided the instruments are unfretted or with movable frets tunable for microtones.

    nk (0214d0)

  15. Comment by Eric Blair — 4/19/2009 @ 12:02 am

    As we know from earlier escapades, ANY representation of Mohammed (whether or not it was dunked in urine) would generate calls from within the Muslim community for the artist’s death – and acquiescence from Western intellectuals who, as they have previously demonstrated, have backbones of overly-boiled linguini.

    AD (967a8f)

  16. I find the video objectionable but it peripherally raises a valid issue. The legitimate issue is “Why does God allow His people to suffer?” but the video frames the issue as “Why does God/Jesus enjoy seeing people suffer?” Patterico invites us to tackle the serious theological issues involved, but the video avoids the serious issues. Instead, it rigs the discussion by portraying Christianity as the equivalent of the ancient Greek and Roman religions in which man existed as a plaything of the gods. There’s no point discussing this is if that’s what you really believe Christianity is.

    So I’ll pass on a serious discussion and leave it at this: Whatever one’s beliefs, hopefully we can agree that while man can learn and benefit from studying science and nature, Mother Nature doesn’t care who she helps or hurts. On the other hand, modern religions exist in part to help people avoid suffering by providing rules and guidelines that help them live happier, better, safer or more fulfilling lives, either on earth or in eternity. But alone among modern religions, it was the Christian Savior who came to earth and suffered for our sins. Does that sound like someone who doesn’t care?

    Anon (b0f193)

  17. Instead, it rigs the discussion by portraying Christianity as the equivalent of the ancient Greek and Roman religions in which man existed as a plaything of the gods.

    Well … actually … the Greeks and Romans had a negotiated, political relationship with their gods. Now we could argue whether Prometheus and Hercules, together, were their christ (intentional small “c”), or only Hercules, and that Prometheus was their satan. And if you really want a fight, point out that, in pagan mythology, knowledge elevated man but in the Old Testament it got him kicked out of The Garden.

    nk (0214d0)

  18. NK,

    I didn’t write that to get a response from you but I knew you would notice it.

    Anon (b0f193)

  19. FWIW, I don’t think it was knowledge that got man kicked out of Eden. It was disobedience.

    Anon (b0f193)

  20. Please people, it’s Sunday – why all this talk about Jesus?

    I disagree with Anon on his implication that the vid shows Jesus enjoying man’s suffering. The problem I have with it is the assertion of the confusion of Jesus regarding his plans for interaction with mankind conflicts directly with the angels’ description of his omniscience. Can’t be omniscient if you don’t know what you’re doing.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  21. “But alone among modern religions, it was the Christian Savior who came to earth and suffered for our sins. Does that sound like someone who doesn’t care?”

    That’s certainly not accurate. Many religions have martyrs and heroism and forgiveness.

    What confuses me is the idea that Jesus actually suffered for our sins. It seems like he suffered because he was being crucified, which has nothing to do with my sins. It doesn’t make sense that it would somehow atone for anything happening anywhere. Blood sacrifice rules were invented by god presumably, under this religion. Why?

    Joco (4cdfb7)

  22. “It seems like he suffered because he was being crucified”

    The suffering was NOT because of Christ’s crucifixiation on the cross but the placing on Jesus of the sin of all mankind which made the pure Son of God so repellated that God could not look upon him and had to turn away.

    Hence Jesus proclamation: “My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me”

    It is the distance and separation from God which is the suffering which Jesus endures.

    LogicalSC (3dfff0)

  23. Isn’t there a single, logical solution which solves the problem of human suffering vs. all-powerful kindly sky critter?

    Look, suppose you had omnipotence and you wanted to test lots of people, because you were bored. You figure that stupid, pointless, vigorous suffering would pose a test – would your person go out and stop the suffering, or just do nothing as it occurred?

    But you couldn’t actually give people Huntington’s disease or Tay-Sachs, or whatever; that would be mean.

    So, you just invent a trillion universes, and put one test subject in each; the rest are part of your sim-universe. Afterwards, you can give them a letter grade (or not.) There’s no reason *not* to do this if you want really rigorous suffering to appear to exist.

    Of course, your simulation people – realistically posed, to be sure – ought not point this out to the real person. Or, for fun, you could have the real person reject the hypothesis even when seen.

    –JRM, who read the Bible cover-to-cover before he turned nine and does not recommend it.

    JRM (355c21)

  24. The video assumes suffering is pointless. I don’t know about you, but I have suffered, and it was NOT pointless.

    jodetoad (b147dc)


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