Remembering William F. Buckley Jr.
[Guest post by Jack Dunphy]
In William F. Buckley Jr.’s autobiography Miles Gone By, he devoted a chapter to Blackford Oakes, the hero of his series of spy novels. Buckley envisioned Blackford Oakes as a counter to the anti-Americanism he saw in so much of the popular culture. He cited in particular the film Three Days of the Condor, which came out in 1975, just before Buckley began working on the first of his Blackford Oakes books. In the film, Robert Redford played a CIA analyst caught up in a murderous plot involving not the KGB or the East German Stassi, but rogue elements within the CIA itself. In other words, the bad guys were the very people we expect to be the good guys.
Buckley himself served briefly with the CIA after graduation from Yale, and in the Blackford Oakes books he set out to define the Cold War not as a standoff between moral equals, as was and remains widely held among the political Left, but rather as a genuine conflict between good and evil, with, it should go without saying but may not, the United States and the West on the side of the former. The degree to which one agrees with this assessment is probably as good a measure as any in placing him on the continuum between Left and Right.
I say all this merely to preface a remarkable passage I came across in re-reading Miles Gone By today. Presented below are the final two paragraphs of the chapter discussed above. The Cold War may have ended, but threats to America nonetheless abound, a fact Mr. Buckley understood better than most.
Blackford Oakes has weaknesses spiritual and corporal. But a basic assumption guides him. It is that the survival of everything we cherish depends on the survival of the culture of liberty; and that this hangs on our willingness to defend this extraordinary country of ours, so awfully mixed up so much of the time, so schizophrenic in its understanding of itself and its purposes, so crazily indulgent of its legion of wildly ungovernable miscreants – to defend it at all costs. With it all, this idealistic republic is the finest bloom of nationhood in all recorded time, and save only that God may decide that the land of the free and the home of the brave has outrun its license on history, we Americans must contend, struggle, and if necessary fight for America’s survival.
In due course we will all die. But when we die, let us resolve that we shall have died confident that those who follow us will live freely; and that they, living as free men and women, will be grateful that, at the threatened nightfall, the blood of their forefathers ran strong.
Mr. Buckley passed away just over a year ago. He is greatly missed.
God, I had completely forgotten he’d past about now…
I’m kind of ashamed.
Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 4/11/2009 @ 10:57 pmHey Jack,
Can you pretend I’m gone all the time, even when I’m not?
Patterico (9686a0) — 4/11/2009 @ 11:21 pmI had not forgotten. I’ve been watching the conservative movement try to separate into the “dinner party” and the “tea party” conservatives, and missing WFB d*mn near every day.
Yes, he did indeed understand the majesty, the glory, and the terrible beauty that is this country. And the fact that Horatius’ choice is a worthy one.
-HR
Howard Roark (0a4d16) — 4/11/2009 @ 11:25 pmBuckley’s capacity to meter debate, with clipboard cadence, in a venue where disagreement without being disagreeable was the standard is what’s missed. Those old tapes of ‘Firing Line’ are studied attempts at rational persuasion, not verbal food fights.
The cheap knockoffs spawned –or ‘Seaned’– by conservatives, desperate to expand the base, has ‘Savaged’ his eloquent legacy with a more ‘Boor-tzish’ style and left a bitter after taste. The flight of independents and moderates from Republican ranks is evidence of this. It’s particularly stinging after the years in the wilderness Buckley spent purging the conservative clan of crazies from the Birch days. The jettisoning of his own son by the dwarfs now running Buckley’s beloved ‘National Review’ speaks volumes.
A brand once voiced by the polished tones of Buckley now carnival barks through Bill-O, Beck and Rush. Conservatives should smarten up. They’ve dumbed down.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 4/12/2009 @ 12:20 amOne of the ways I came to conservatism was via Buckley. I read every book of his my high school library offered.
Ralph (e0eb85) — 4/12/2009 @ 12:52 amThat being said when remembering his life I think it should be pointed out that he enjoyed dancing naked in the woods with other men and praying to a giant owl asking for illumination.
A video tape exists of such things. You can shoot the messenger of said tape but you can’t dismiss the tape. Fact is Buckley was a member. We ought to know why.
DCSCA:
Would this be the same son who, at age 56, proudly voted for Barack H. Obama last November?
Perhaps it’s just I; but that might not have been the best example to cite, DCSCA, if your intention was to indict the current editorial staff of NR!
(A close friend of mine who grew up conservative and is now feeling his libertarian oats voted for Babar in the presidential election. The collapse of the conservative coalition careens right along, and you cannot lay all the blame at the feet of the putative “neocons.” If Ronald Reagan were alive today, he’d be spinning in his grave.)
Dafydd
Dafydd the Puzzled (db2ea4) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:34 am“A brand once voiced by the polished tones of Buckley now carnival barks through Bill-O, Beck and Rush. Conservatives should smarten up. They’ve dumbed down.”
ASPCA – Since liberals have no core ideology it is interesting you spend so much time attacking prominent voices of the right who are not running for any office. There are no equivalent voices on the left. Why is that? Conservatism scares you, that is what is apparent, not your false words.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:33 amWTF is this dancing naked in the woods crap, and what does it have to do with the price of beans in Bolivia? Apparently Ralph has a tape of it, and spends much time watching it.
ASPCA – your example about his son is laughable. It had to be some attempt at parody.
JD (ef7e09) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:32 amPersonal liberty is such a foreign concept to these people.
JD (ef7e09) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:34 amHappy Easter everyone.
Go Tiger Woods. Viva la Masters!
JD (ef7e09) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:36 amThere’s some things in there that I’ve heard before.
First – that liberals ‘attack prominent voices of the right,’ which is often characterized by your side as unfair, as a waste of time, or as some nefarious scheme to silence people – merely because they’re not elected officials. Guys like O’Reilly and Limbaugh command huge audiences and have an unparalleled capacity to dictate the parameters of debate, but conservatives defend them as private citizens, and insist that liberals should find something better to do than criticize or respond to them.
Second – liberals aren’t scared of conservatives. We’re also not scared of tea parties, or Sarah Palin, or Bobby Jindal, or 2010, or anything else for that matter. Why would we be? You’ve been doing nothing but losing elections for the past few cycles, you’ve got no apparent leaders outside of the media figures you don’t want criticized, the demographics in this country are trending away from you, and popularity polls put you guys miles behind the Democrats. What is there to be scared about?
TEH NARRATIVE (863676) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:45 amIt certainly has its talking points down. Go forth with Teh Narrative. Do not stray from the script.
JD (ef7e09) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:58 amThis is what the Left hates, and that America has bred so well.
From the early frontiersman to now, there are those among us who can’t stand being told what to do…and the Left just can’t stand being ignored. Especially when it’s “for your own good.”
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:04 amWe’re bitter, religious, and we have guns.
Lots and lots of guns.
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:05 amThey do attack anyone the perceive to be a voice for conservatives. That is beyond question. If they were not scared of Palin, Jindal, Cantor, Rush, they would not feel compelled to try to tear them down. It should be easy enough to engage on their policy positions, yet the politics of personal destruction is their chosen avenue. This whole idea that the Republicans are out in the wilderness forever and the Left has developed some permanent ruling coalition is laughable. Barcky won 52 percent of the vote in a year where a talking ocelot could have got nearly the same amount, while running against a sort-of Republican, and most certainly not a conservative.
FWIW, O’Reilly is a populist blowhard, not a Republican, and certainly not a conservative. But Teh Narrative must be serviced.
JD (ef7e09) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:08 am#15 JD
Indeed. Even now a generation much more conservative than we have seen in a while is beginning to take notice of the mess they have been left to deal with.
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:11 amDonald Hamilton’s Matt Helm was my favorite secret agent. A guy who knew both how to tighten the groups on a rifle and the difference between “presently” and “at present”.
nk (a7cdb7) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:13 amAlright, “old” Gary, which is it? Either Conservatives have been losing elections for “the past few cycles” or the economy is all Conservatives’ faults. Your statements of supposed fact are mutually exclusive.
“popularity polls put you guys miles behind the Democrats.”
What’s your source for such a statement of extreme? The most recent “generic Democrat v generic Republican” poll I saw had the numbers within the margin of error. Not exactly miles apart. In fact, the polls have been trending toward the generic Republican, so much so that one of the polls had the generic Republican on top but within the margin of error.
And dictate parameters of debate? How about they voice what many of us are already thinking? Learn what “Ditto-head” actually means. It doesn’t mean automaton.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:14 ampopularity polls put you guys miles behind the Democrats. What is there to be scared about?
Comment by TEH NARRATIVE
Rasmussen now has Obama 2 points positive in the numbers strongly pro and con. That’s his lowest. You’ve got to give us a little time. Obama’s only been president for a few weeks. Popularity can evaporate fast but even at the pace he is setting, it takes a while for it to translate to elections.
I will grant that Republicans trashed the brand with out of control spending. Now, the public is getting a look at the alternative.
How’s that going, do you think ?
Mike K (90939b) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:25 amYou know the best way to fix out of control spending? Spend 4 times as much in deficits.
JD (ef7e09) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:48 amHere’s the link to what Mike K is talking about.
And for a historical perspective, take a look at this polling comparison I made last month.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:57 amThat they attack shows there are strong defenders of conservatism.
Judith (e54586) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:14 amThat they attack shows our country is still vitally alive and engaged in struggle, which is glorious.
That they attack, but have not, as yet, silenced the right is a battle to be met and won.
Notice how “teh narrative” swoops in, drops his talking points bomb, and all discussion of the point of the original post ceases. Whether they realize it conciously or not, preventing serious discussion among the constituents of the right is the goal of these talking-points bombers. By paying more than cursory attention to their comments and not focussing on the discussion at hand, you give their tactic effect.
I’d to call special attention to this sentence, because it sums up the one thing that has genuine appeal across the conservative spectrum:
This idea of the culture of liberty is perhaps the one credible idea that unites conservatives of all sorts and has appeal to moderate Americans. If the Right is to fight its way back to prominence in American politics, it needs to reorient itself around this idea. It also needs to develop serious intellectual thinkers of the calibur of Mr. Buckley to provide a new and every-expanding intellectual arsenal for the popularizers of conservative ideals like Mr. Limbaugh.
Tom Ault (8d9573) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:33 amThey attack because they’re worried. They had an overwhelming victory in November, and it’s already coming unglued.
The Somali piracy issue may open more eyes. Obama would rather talk about housing than something difficult, while H-Rod cackles. These people are not serious and greatly out of their depth.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:40 am#23 Tom Ault:
Well put.
Liberty is messy. And rather than trying to clean it up, the mess is best for preserving it.
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:44 amDear JD:
Eeewwww. But I suspect it would be more of a solo effort.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:46 amThis idea of the culture of liberty is perhaps the one credible idea that unites conservatives of all sorts and has appeal to moderate Americans.
That’s very well said. It’s deadly to the Obama message that Big Government should do everything for you.
Rush is one of those standard-bearers for liberty and individual rights. That’s the lefties are so eager to convince people not to listen to him.
Rush is talking about Friedman, von Hayek and Rand, supplying intellectual ammunition to those who don’t want to be indoctrinated into giving up their freedom.
The oh-so-solicitous advice of DCSCA and ilk should be read in that context.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:58 amDuh Sedative and DogCrapp are two sides of the same coin, as well as wholly tedious, unoriginal and self – flagellating caricatures.
Dmac (1ddf7e) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:59 amDidn’t Buckley – the epitome of the intelligent conservative – declare that the so-called War on Some Drugs is lost and support drug legalization?
Hmmmm….Perhaps the pro WOSD folks here should take notice and learn from the master.
Horatio (55069c) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:54 amIndeed, Buckley’s stance on legalizing drugs was almost . . . Libertarian! 🙂
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:17 amAnd that’s a major point why Libertarians around here would not call me one.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:21 amJH,
Let’s agree to disagree on what we disagree, and agree to agree on what we agree. If we disagree on what we disagree, that would be most . . disagreeable.
Agree?
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:23 amHeh, sometimes I get memory relapses. Someone around here noted my hard-line Conservative rhetoric and declared me one of the strongest Libertarians here. And I made note that the Libertarians would not call me one, to his astonishment.
But yeah, I can agree that you’re sometimes right and I’m never wrong. 😉
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:27 am“A brand once voiced by the polished tones of Buckley now carnival barks through Bill-O, Beck and Rush.”
You don’t need to worry about conservative commentators. You need to spend your time scrutinizing fools and clowns like Al Franken, Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann.
I won’t say anything about the politicians on that same side of the ideological spectrum who are no less foolish and clownish, including owner-of-huge-energy-wasting-mansion Al Gore, sniper-fire Hillary Clinton and I-didn’t-bow-before-the-Saudi-king Barack Obama.
As for someone like the late (in terms of recent history and relevance) Mario Cuomo? His attempt to be a radio commentator wasn’t so much foolish and clownish as merely so dull to apparently put most listeners to sleep.
Mark (411533) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:35 amJH:
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:37 amCollectivists/leftists often confuse Libertarians and conservatives. After all, we both believe the smallest minority is the individual, and that’s utterly perplexing to those indoctrinated in group rights groupthink.
I had a few problems with Buckley but his magazine remains as a valuable focus of conservative thought. I’ve found that NR writers are responsive to e-mail and are willing to respond to reasonable questions. As the originator of the movement, Buckley deserved much credit. I disagreed with him on the Iraq War, and his views may have influenced his less thoughtful son who endorsed Obama and has now regretted his endorsement. As far as drug legalization is concerned, I agree and disagree. There are serious practical problems. The theory is worth debate.
By the way, Navy SEALs have now freed the hostage captain and killed at least three of the pirates. Obama was right to keep mum.
Mike K (90939b) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:45 amI agreed with Buckley for the most part regarding the war on drugs – it hasn’t worked, it’s been a huge waste of time, money and resources. Nancy Reagan had the right idea (sort of), when she went on her tours of public schools across the country with her mantra of “just say no.” Criminalization is not the answer, but the changing of societal norms and the resultant pressures are the eventual cure. As we’ve seen with smoking, society’s eventual frowning on that activity has greatly reduced the latter generations of would – be smokers (albeit an uptick in young women smokers recently).
Dmac (1ddf7e) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:46 amSecond – liberals aren’t scared of conservatives. We’re also not scared of tea parties, or Sarah Palin, or Bobby Jindal, or 2010, or anything else for that matter. Why would we be?
Oh really? Then you spend so much time and energy focusing on them, talking about them, writing about them and bringing them up because why, you just can’t quit them? It’s so funny how the Dems are in control and yet people like you continue to pound the conservatives instead of using your voice to extol your newly elected leaders’ strengths and capacity to make changes for “good”… funny that.
It’s comforting to know that WFB and the inimitable Mrs. Buckley are together once again, continuing their long love affair and endless conversation. He left behind what we needed to know.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:54 amGreat news, Mike K.
Here’s how it’s being spun. Barf.
US Ship Captain Freed By Somali Pirates
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:55 amCaptain Richard Phillips has been freed by Somali pirates, a US intelligence official has confirmed. . .
Here’s another one of the studiously passive constructions on the captain’s rescue:
US captain released from pirates
The captain of a US container ship taken hostage by Somali pirates has been released, the US Navy has said.
The captain was not “released”. He was rescued by a U.S. military operation. But saying that force sometimes works when diplomacy fails wouldn’t fit TEH NARRATIVE.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:59 amHe cited in particular the film Three Days of the Condor…
The Cold War may have ended, but threats to America nonetheless abound, a fact Mr. Buckley understood better than most.
I recall an interesting moment at the end of Three Days of the Condor, in which the idealistic character (played by Robert Redford) — probably politically of the left like a Joseph Wilson or Valerie Plume — confronts the character of his former CIA boss.
The Redford character lashes out at the CIA bigwig, and in so many words says that a nice-and-lovin’, kum-bah-yah world is what they should be striving for. But the CIA boss retorts — to paraphrase — that when oil runs out and Americans are too desparate to run their cars and heat their homes, etc, that the niceties of feel-good politics (perhaps a variation of Obama-ism, or Jimmy-Carterism) will be seen by most of them as hopelessly naive and ultimately self-destructive.
The scene has the two characters standing in front of the New York Times, which represents where a whistle-blower like Redford has turned to.
The movie was made in the early 1970s — before the fall of the Iron Curtain — but it still has some relevance in this age of neurotic global-warming fears, major international recession, Islamo-fanaticsm, a nuclear Iran, and the precariousness of the world’s oil supply.
Mark (411533) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:03 amBradley, the AP via LAT,
U.S. sea captain freed in swift firefight
From the Associated Press
10:50 AM PDT, April 12, 2009
The U.S. Navy has rescued the American sea captain held by Somali pirates.
A senior U.S. intelligence official said hostage Richard Phillips was not hurt in what appeared to be a swift firefight off the Somali coast today. Phillips was safely transported to a Navy warship nearby.
The official said three pirates were killed and one was injured.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:09 amThe official was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.
Dana,
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:16 amThat’s better. Thank you!
#27 “Rush is one of those standard-bearers for liberty and individual rights. That’s the lefties are so eager to convince people not to listen to him.”
On the contrary. Keep him in the rotation. Have Rush, Bill-O, Beck, Sean, et al in the faces and ears of the world as the contemporary voices of modern conservatism. What a gift. The hard right message is entrusted to a fat, deaf, high school educated drug addict with several failed marriages who sits alone, locked in a room, ranting to himself beside a live microphone. By all means, keep it up. Mimic the afflicted. Encourage presidential failure. And watch the moderates and indies continue to flee the GOP.
I can understand one facet of Limbaugh’s marriage woes. I have met him personally and he smells. Literally. A real stinko. Very bad B.O. Sweats profusely. As his calling in life has drawn him to the ‘right guard,’ a trip to the drug store to pick some up might be in order. It’s available in spray or roll on.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:23 amThe hard right message is entrusted to a fat, deaf, high school educated drug addict with several failed marriages who sits alone, locked in a room, ranting to himself beside a live microphone.
Then all the more I would think your side consider him not even worthy of mention. And yet your side does. Continually. You write against him, talk against him, make him the butt of jokes, parody him, castigate him, mock him, etc. So much time spent on such a fat loser. Funny that.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:32 am…more Capt. Phillips:
AD - RtR/OS (45271e) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:37 amFoxNews reported that the rescue was triggered by Phillips (again) jumping overboard into the sea, and then the firefight opened up, which would lead one to believe that the SEALS were already there (in the water?).
I wonder how much intel they’ll get from that one pirate survivor before he “attempts to escape”?
Sounds like it’s time to get a CBG into the area.
True to form, DCSCA unleases a stream of ad hominems against Limbaugh, but won’t tackle his message of personal freedom and individual responsibility. A good example of just who is dumbing down the political dialogue.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:38 am…to the shores of Tripoli. Close enough.
allan (996efe) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:47 amWith tongue-in-cheek, I would take exception to the accusation that DuckCrap is capable of dumbing-down anything:
AD - RtR/OS (45271e) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:48 amWhen, as an entity you are a zero, and you have an I.Q. of same, you cease to have any impact at all.
BTW, anyone seen VEVian, why is he the only loser who hasn’t shown up today (or don’t they open the Library in his town on Sunday’s?)?
FTFY
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:48 amI think that some folks actually believe that these TdJs:
They are usually angry, bitter people (without church or guns!) who are working out their own issues in a safe way, where they can say whatever they like without having to take any responsibility for it.
It’s a game to them.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 11:59 amComment by Dana — 4/12/2009 @ 11:32 am
I would add to my comment that the irony always makes me smile.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 12:01 pmRush Limbaugh:
“Everybody wins when everybody’s acting in self-interest. Selfishness is a different thing. Self-interest is excellence; self-interest is what’s desired; self-interest is what makes people want raises; self-interest is what makes people want their families to be secure; self-interest is what makes parents want their kids to be properly educated; self-interest is what propels the United States military to victory. . . President Obama says, “We all need to sacrifice,” for this reason or that reason. What it means is we all need to pay more; we need to have less affluent lives; we need to dial down our prosperity, and we need to give the money to him, not a charity.”
DCSCA:
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 12:35 pmYou’re a stinky fatso!
Bradley, LOL!
JD, the “dancing in the nude, praying to an owl” is the reference to “Bohemian Grove” and how this secret society is running the world. The odious Alex Jones sells conspiracy DVDs about this. As they say, “google it!!!!1!!1!”
I have to agree with DCSCA on one thing – those tapes of Firing Line are indeed compelling, and I do share a dislike of the Hannity shout-fest model. I don’t listen to any of the radio shows that dumb-down their arguments. I once saw WFB absolutely decimate his opponent on a drug-legalization debate, and he did it with style, panache, and a smile on his well-spoken face. He is indeed missed.
carlitos (d6a124) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:05 pmYeah, Bradley. I remember this person making the claim to having worked around Limbaugh. I don’t want to go chase it down, but wasn’t this person banned before? And didn’t Dmac dissect his claims?
It is interesting how nastily personal the attacks get. Instead of, as Dana suggests (on this day in particular) simply explicating one’s own superior point of view?
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:10 pmI dunno, Carlitos. Even Reagan disagreed with Buckley on some things and they were friends. I suspect (maybe it’s only my bias) that it (the disagreement) was because Reagan was more of a people person and Buckley was more of a cold, intellectual, idealogue. You need to connect with more people than the ones who can parseGore Vidal.
nk (d57c0b) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:14 pm*publicly* disagreed
nk (d57c0b) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:17 pmLet’s not forget, our resident anagram/Walter Mitty once admitted to being an accessory to conspiracy to commit murder. That’s even worse than being a stinky fatso! 🙂
carlitos (d6a124) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:24 pm#50- Psycho, Limbaugh’s message is to bark a pitch, draw an audience and peddle patient medicine. How many years you’ve been swallowing it is self-evident.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:43 pmCarlitos, #58: I had forgotten about that statement.
Ta-pocka, ta-pocka, ta-pocka...right?
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:45 pmOf course, in his day, WFB was as hated and deplored as any of today’s top conservatives, by the same sort of creatures who now claim to wish there were more right-wingers like good old Pup. What a crock.
Rich Fader (295108) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:46 pmASPCA: You have no idea what a “psycho” is. And I predict you’ll present a kindergarten-level retort.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:48 pmJohn, c’mon. Just call him “Walter Mitty.” Seriously, check out carlitos’ post if you need a reminder that will make you laugh.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:50 pmRemember this one, John (just down a little from carlitos’ link):
Hmmm. Shaken, not stirred.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:54 pmI guess, come to think of it, that a “faily” high level may mean something different from “fairly.”
I’m just sayin’.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 1:55 pmI have to agree with DCSCA on one thing – those tapes of Firing Line are indeed compelling, and I do share a dislike of the Hannity shout-fest model.
They were doing the “shout-fest” model on The McLaughlin Group long before anyone knew who Hannity or Rush was. The only difference is that now the Springer-type atmosphere is considered normal in political discourse, so any show that doesn’t adopt the “high-dudgeon” interview styles of today’s current pundits, from Beck to Hannity to John Stewart to Bill Maher, doesn’t have a prayer.
Firing Line wouldn’t last a month on the air in this day and age–not because of the political views of the host, but because it’s an interview model that passed its expiration date about 20 years ago. This is what happens when a culture starts appealing to the lowest common demoninator, praising ignorance as a virtue and equating youth with wisdom.
Another Chris (a3bb8f) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:11 pm#45- All the more reason to see him out front, leading the conservative charge. Limbaugh: the face, voice and mindset of the GOP. Recruit away, the Limbaugh way.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:13 pm#65- “Firing Line” was carried on PBS, not commercial television. The conservative decline in public discourse began with the syndicated shoutfest hosted by the late right wing motor mouth, Morton Downey, Jr.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:21 pmAnother Chris, you are so right! I caught McLaughlin Group yesterday and wondered why no one duct taped Eleanor Clift’s mouth shut. Meh. But I do believe MG’s shoutfest is a bit more classy than the Hannity model. I’m with Vivian Louise on this, he makes my ears bleed.
Again, DCSA, you continue with Limbaugh. Apparently you believe only those who can lead are those who are successfully married, college graduates, thin, uses the right kind of anti-perspirant, has not struggled through a weakness and subsequently conquered it.
And that’s another difference between the left and right: We over here look for character, an unwavering stand on principles, success of the individual overcoming enormous odds, admission of sins that affect those they care for, and one who is not afraid to go against the flow. In other words, we’re grown-ups. We’re not in high school still desperate to sit at the cool kids’ table next to the prom king and queen.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:27 pmDidn’t PBS run “The Secret Life of Walter Mitty” a while back?
Yeah, it was related to the Sam Goldwyn “American Masters” retrospective.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:28 pmDana, it is just a game. Remember, this is the guy with extensive CIA contacts and knowledge of Libyan and Saudi operations.
Whatever.
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:29 pm#68- “We over here look for character, an unwavering stand on principles, success of the individual overcoming enormous odds, admission of sins that affect those they care for, and one who is not afraid to go against the flow. ”
Yes. He was inaugurated President of the United States of America on January 20, 2009.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:39 pmSee what I mean, Dana? Ta-pocka, ta-pocka, ta-pocka!
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:41 pmUnwavering stands, like promising to post all legislation on the White House website for 5 days of public comment, “no more illegal wiretapping,” troops out of Iraq now! etc.
What shade of tinfoil is the sky in your world?
carlitos (d6a124) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:41 pmYes. He was inaugurated President of the United States of America on January 20, 2009.
See what I mean, DCSCA? You guys always get it wrong! Rush isn’t POTUS, silly, he’s just a talk show commentator and pundit who just happens to be right most of the time…but that still doesn’t make him President. 🙂
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 2:43 pmShouldn’t the headline read something like “US Navy vaporizes 3 pirates and captures a 4th?
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:07 pmDana – I don’t think ASPCA has listened to Limbaugh. All he does is recite a list of personal attributes rather than comment on anything Limbaugh has said. It’s like me attacking Granny McRictusbotoxface merely for her plastic surgery or Senator Aristoslacker for the same thing. Very substantive commentary.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:09 pmOh I know, daleyrocks, but I’m waiting for the steaks and chicken to finish on the grill and this gives me a bit of sly fun while waiting. Happy Easter!
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:15 pmDana – Happy Easter to you as well. Did you microwave any peeps?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:17 pmHeh. Listen, I have a house full of highly imaginative 20-somethings with one big collective wicked senses of humor. I don’t put anything past them. They’ll be *inspired*, sooner rather than later.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:22 pmDid you see the bit from the Institute for Peep Science, Dana?
http://www.peepresearch.org/
The part about the dangers of drinking and smoking is particularly funny!
Happy Easter!
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:26 pmSome of the ober-lefties don’t seem to think too much of our new president’s principles.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/11/bagram/index.html
Now, that they’ve been elected, the Dems are doing all the things they vilified the Bush administration for…much to the dismay of the Kumbaya-singing lefties, who actually believed the hogwash that the New Messiah and his friends were spewing about habeas corpus for terrorists and their “we would never spy on people without warrants” nonsense.
Get a clue, lefties. They were just saying that stuff, so you would vote for the guy. You’ve been royally had.
Dave Surls (fad3d4) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:38 pmDana – They’ll be endlessly amused by Peeps in a microwave, as will you if you’ve never tried it. Put one on a dish or paper towel. I suggest around 2:00 as a start ’cause it’s tough to judge the strength of different units. You have to watch them closely because you definitely don’t want to overcook the little buggers.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:45 pmIt’s been a while since I’ve done it so the 2:00 mins may be way off – just watch closely.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:47 pmGrilled peeps are yummy, just tough to clean up. I am going to go try the microwave right now.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:51 pmThis bit says it all, JD:
http://www.peepresearch.org/smoking.html
Of course, the flambe’ed version is no S’more!
Eric Blair (4d78ef) — 4/12/2009 @ 3:55 pmJD – Your little ones will love the microwave.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:19 pmBetter Half now officially hates you guys.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:42 pmWhat didn’t she like?
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:43 pmI do believe someone’s head got too big.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:46 pm“I do believe someone’s head got too big”
John – That’s what happens to the Peeps.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:47 pmQuestion is: Who cleans up the mess?
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:49 pmJohn – No mess if you had them on a paper towel or plate.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 4:51 pmMelted molten marshmallow fluff all over the microwave.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:19 pmI win!
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:22 pmI did my typical experiment style, placing a small army of peeps in the microwave, and blasting them for a long time. Then, the Masters playoff started, and I forgot about them.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:33 pm“I win!”
John – He’s not doing it right!
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:35 pmPeepocide.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:38 pmJD – A small army of Peeps would have been truly awesome to watch!!!!
They would have filled up your microwave as they expanded to 8-10x their normal size and then overcooking them burning the sugar and sticking to the sides. Excellent kitchen adventure.
Be sure to tell better half you did not follow instructions or perhaps you did it on purpose to avoid cooking duty – STAY OUT OF MY KITCHEN YOU DIRTY APE!!!!
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:42 pmI am in the doghouse. Big time. This stuff does not clean up easily.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:47 pmTry this line:
It’s not my fault! They told me to do it!
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:47 pmJD, tell Better Half that you followed the very specific instructions of an internet commenter… named horace. 😉
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:48 pmI told Better Half that I could not resist trying it out. She knows that I always go all MythBusters with these kinds of things. Mentos and Diet Coke in the basement was particularly a bad idea. But now, I think I will tell her that DCRAP lied and told me it would have a different outcome. I will not be allowed in the kitchen for a while.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:56 pmI was trying to find a way to pull a jedi mind trick and blame it on her, but I couldn’t.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 5:59 pm“JD, tell Better Half that you followed the very specific instructions of an internet commenter”
Stashiu3 – I don’t want her blaming me. Those Asian women are tricky and carry knives, or so I hear, or something like that.
Somehow I knew JD would find a way to mess it up. I’m picturing a microwave oozing burned melted Peeps in pastel colors, stuck to the door, sides, etc. I would suggest you let your dog loose on it JD. Yum, yum treat.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:39 pmBuckley is not a truly great hero in my eyes. He’s better than a heart attack, but then so are peeps. Contrary to what someone above claimed, he is not the father of American conservatism. He’s the father of what’s considered the MODERN conservative movement, which in fact effectively abandoned the core issue which defined conservatism prior to that: states’ rights. I don’t mean the watered-down, merely rhetorical kind of states’ rights that passes under that name today, but the hardcore, Tenth Amendment, Civil-War-era states’ rights doctrine that was actually dedicated to keeping federal power in check.
Due to the clear and present danger presented by Communism in the fifties, Buckley was mostly concerned with preserving and defending the American culture of liberty against foreign aggression and illiberal European political philosophies. To that end, he downplayed–or at any rate neglected–the threat from within that arose with the consolidation of all power in Washington.
Ah, but at this point, RUNDMC or whatever his acronym is will jump in and say that, au contraire, Buckley (and Reagan and etc.) talked a lot about states’ rights and the importance of “small government.” But what I’m suggesting is that for all his talk, he never seemed to fully grasp the central, indispensable role states’ rights doctrine played in the minds of the so-called anti-Federalist, conservative Founders of this nation. The American people at the founding weren’t frightened of governmental power per se–that is, of the governments of their states and local communities, which remained close to them and within their power to control. They were frightened of FEDERAL power–that power which was distant from them and which threatened to overturn their sovereign will with laws based upon the desires of people with vastly different interests. This was the reason for the inclusion of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, as a check specifically upon the FEDERAL government and the Federal government only. The BoR was never applied to the states, nor was it ever thought to apply to the states, until the passage of the 14th Amendment in the wake of the so-called Civil War (and that’s a whole ‘nother snake’s nest).
So anyway, I view Buckley as at best a half-conservative. He was a good citizen with good intentions, but his bucket was ultimately only half-full. Regrettably, this had the effect of opening the door of “conservatism” to anti-Communist liberals and leftists who were more than happy to see a massively consolidated government in Washington locking horns with the Soviet bear (to mix a metaphor). Buckley, then, should properly be called the father of American “neo-conservatism,” not conservatism per se. People like Irving Kristol, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Elliot Abrams, etc. came flooding into “the movement” through the door he opened for them and have been no small part of the cause of the schizophrenic mess the conservative movement is today. Buckley’s successors at National Review are merely carrying on the tradition he started, and that is reason enough, in my mind, not to ever listen to a single word they say.
danebramage (700c93) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:44 pmThey were pink, daley. And they were/are everywhere.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:50 pmUS captain released from pirates …. after their cranium was pierced by very accurately placed, high-velocity bullets.
red (bdd019) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:57 pmdaleyrocks, that’s why I was trying to put BH on horace’s trail. Win/Win/Win (JD off the hook, you off the hook, horace on the hook). I’m still chuckling at the mental image of JD’s “small army of peeps”. I can just imagine the things expanding into every crevice before caramelizing.
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 4/12/2009 @ 6:58 pmThose peeps were Al Chikda jihadists.
John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:00 pm—I can understand one facet of Limbaugh’s marriage woes. I have met him personally and he smells. Literally. A real stinko. Very bad B.O. Sweats profusely. As his calling in life has drawn him to the ‘right guard,’ a trip to the drug store to pick some up might be in order. It’s available in spray or roll on.—
Wow, DPSCA (Da Society to Prevent Cruelty to Animals) you have really stretched above the usual liberal ad hominem attacks and really addressed the ideas that Rush Limbaugh expresses for real Americans… Freedom..Self-Reliance..Love of Country.
Its really a pleasure to have the kind of intellectual arguement with you that I saw William Buckley have with thinking liberals of the 1960’s
red (bdd019) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:00 pmI am finding out that the most effective way to clean this crap up is to reheat it. The only problem with that is that the molten marshmallow fluff burns when it gets on your skin, and also dissolves those little plastic grocery bags on contact. Daleyrocks is evil.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:02 pmJD, put a wet washcloth in the microwave when you reheat. The moisture will help. Don’t ask how I know this. I will not tell.
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:05 pmToo bad that won’t work with trolls.
AD - RtR/OS (45271e) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:06 pmPlus, it seems we have a new singer, same stanza.
“Daleyrocks is evil.”
MUAHAAAAAA!!!! Feel my POWAH!!!!
I’m confident you did worse back in the day JD.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:08 pm“Don’t ask how I know this. I will not tell.”
I second that suggestion, but a real man would just lick that stuff off.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:10 pm—-the father of American “neo-conservatism,” not conservatism per se. People like Irving Kristol, -Jeane Kirkpatrick, Elliot Abrams, etc. came flooding into “the movement” through the door he opened for them and have been no small part of the cause of the schizophrenic mess the conservative movement is today. Buckley’s successors at National Review are merely carrying on the tradition he started, and that is reason enough, in my mind, not to ever listen to a single word they say.—-
Oh, there’s that “Da Jews” in the Neo-conservative cabal attack again!
BTW Jeanne Kirkpatrick was a better diplomat than Hillary Clinton, Madeline Alstupid, and now Susan Rice ever dreamed about being.
Stunningly successful was Susan Rice about the North Korean resolution wasn’t she?
Oh there I go again, being a conservative and arguing about the idea of successful foreign policy that addresses a clear threat to the national security of an ally of the United States.
Susan Rice probably has no halitosis and is a great cocktail conversationalist.
red (bdd019) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:11 pmI don’t mean the watered-down, merely rhetorical kind of states’ rights that passes under that name today, but the hardcore, Tenth Amendment, Civil-War-era states’ rights doctrine that was actually dedicated to keeping federal power in check.
And that librul Abe Lincoln was so dictatorial as to free the slaves.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 4/12/2009 @ 7:36 pm/sarc
I must say that I disagree on the criticisms of Obama and his behavior during the pirate hostage crisis. It was useful disinformation to allow the pirates to think he was the indecisive pussy that we all consider him to be. Fortunately, the SEALs interpreted their orders, no doubt hedged with many legalistic reservations, liberally.
Mike K (90939b) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:22 pmJD
Ralph (e0eb85) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:32 pmNot much of a put down there. You should spend some time answering your own question. Bohemian Grove. Google it. Alex Jones is a bit of a nut but the tape is real. Obviouslly you don’t know about it. You’ll be surprised who are members.
Oh no, Ralph. You just missed my tone, completely. I love conspiracy theorists. Y’all are fun to play with.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:42 pmYou have to admit, I nailed this one. Please spot the parody below.
carlitos (92022c) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:46 pmI was just hoping you would lay out your manifesto, instead of responding with a Rosie O’Lard “google it”.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:47 pmCarlitos – I stand in awe.
My are they so scared of people that dance naked around campfires? I mean, come on. Doesn’t everyone go around howling at the moon while wearing nothing but an ocelot wrap after consuming much mescaline and peyote? Oops, never mind ….
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:50 pm“It was useful disinformation to allow the pirates to think he was the indecisive pussy that we all consider him to be.”
Mike K – There are reports out that the DOD had to ask twice before getting Obama’s authorization to use force and even then it was only granted if the Captain’s life was in imminent danger. I’m reserving judgement on whether there is a new surrender monkey in town – I think it’s highly likely, but need a few more actual incidents.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:56 pm“My are they so scared of people that dance naked around campfires?”
Back in the day I would usually fall into the campfire at some point during the evening so I usually made it a point to keep some clothes on.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 8:59 pmDoesn’t everyone go around howling at the moon while wearing nothing but an ocelot wrap after consuming much mescaline and peyote?
Err, no. Around here we just relax with a beer and try to spot Antares at the upper left of the moon, at this time of year.
nk (52e9a9) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:02 pmNever could figure which was Antares and which was Venus, to tell the truth. Maybe too many beers.
nk (52e9a9) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:03 pm“My are they so scared of people that dance naked around campfires?”
Hell, it’s not even that expensive to rent that kind of entertainment in Northern Wisconsin these days.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:06 pmY’all ain’t lived ….
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:11 pmI hope that “ocelot wrap” is only dyed rabbit-skin, BTW. Otherwise, you are totally denounced.
nk (52e9a9) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:21 pmI’m not a conspiracy theorist. I get your tone. The tape is real. Pick on me as much as you want. The Bohemian Grove is real. These are facts. You might not like them, they might conflict with your worldview but they are facts. You see it as conspriacy theory and therefore negative because that is the only way such facts can fit into your worldview.
Ralph (e0eb85) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:41 pmPut me down and by all means put Jones (like I said he is a nut) down I don’t care, but answer this question. Why do powerfull men enjoy praying to a giant owl and asking for illumination?
I bet you won’t. You will just insult me again and ignor the question.
This one time, at neocon camp, me and Bo Derek, that girl from Breitbart, and scorching hot Zionistas were doing a variation of the dirty sanchez campfire dance …
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:45 pmMaybe they are Temple alumni?
carlitos (92022c) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:47 pmRalph – Again, you completely missed my point. It is not humanly possible for me to care less whether or not some dudes danced around a campfire and pray to the giant three eyed alien king in the sky. It is simply not possible. Now, were Barcky there, I would find that to be endlessly amusing. I hope you transfer that video to DVD, so you do not wear out the tape in the part where Buckley does the trouser snake salute to the giant owl in the sky.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:55 pm#124 daleyrocks:
I would certainly hope that those reports are unfounded.
The decision to use deadly force against pirates is certainly well within the commission of a ship’s commanding officer.
Not that our current political climate would recognize that little nicety of “international law.”
EW1(SG) (e27928) — 4/12/2009 @ 9:59 pmYou don’t accept the tape. I have no problem with that. Like I said Jones is a nut and he could have cooked it up. I hold out that possabilty and take it seriouslly. His treatment of Malkin was unforgivable and proves he is a nut. I thought so before that.
Ralph (e0eb85) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:07 pmStill the Bohemian Grove is real. They do meet there. So is the Bilderberg Group. When they meet in London or Switzerland or New York the media follow and we know what they did. We all react to their actions and life goes on.
Maybe you don’t want to know what they do when they meet in secret with absolute media blackout but I do. Hey maybe they are just discussing the best fly fishing lure.
Your lack of courisity about your leaders is more reprehensible than my supposed conspriacy mongering.
The Defense Department twice sought Mr. Obama’s permission to use force to rescue Captain Phillips, most recently on Friday night, senior defense officials said. On Saturday morning, the president agreed, they said, if it appeared that the captain’s life was in imminent danger.
Apparently, EW1(SG), they did ask twice. And I can’t find it now but I read tonight that it was by ok’d by state lawyers.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:10 pmThe owl thing is like many frat traditions. A lot of silly and exotic mumbo jumbo, made up to be fun, a bit sarcastic, and to provide a bit of the fellowship that keeping secrets provides.
It’s really quite stupid that these people do that bohemian grove thing, but it is real. It’s not some paranoid conspiracy theory, it’s just evidence, as if we needed any, that we have an aristocracy of people who waste their time being stupid. There’s nothing wrong with asking WTF they are up to, because they appear to be making every effort to look like they are in a cult of world leaders. I even suspect that any actual conspiracies made there are aided by being overshadowed by something as meaningless as an owl god.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:10 pmMy leaders are dancing naked in a grove of trees by a campfire? Really? You know who my leaders are? What is this Bilderberg Group of which you speak?
Again, I do not question the grovers, nor the existence of a “tape”. I do not care even one little iota about it.
Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:16 pmThen quit writing about how much you don’t care.
Ralph (e0eb85) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:19 pmfound it at Politico,
Obama’s involvement in the decision to authorize lethal force was legally required, officials said, because it was a hostage situation, not combat, and unrelated to the already authorized U.S. effort against al-Qaida and other terror groups, officials said.
“It’s not a combat operation so the lawyers wanted to ensure this was done right,” said a second defense official.
Dana (d08a3a) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:20 pmI am having too much fun. Plus, in my cult, 1:30 AM is the witching hour, and I have to streak my neighborhood chanting “grovers suck”.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:21 pmThis could only be more fun if there were frogmen, snipers, seeing-eye horses, and roast beef slicers masquerading as boat captains involved.
JD (7558c8) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:27 pmJD, please tell me you took pics of the aftermath in the microwave…
And please, in text form, try and replicate the sound your dear wife made when she discovered what you had done…
Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 4/12/2009 @ 10:48 pmGood morning everybody.
Time to microwave the Peeps.
daleyrocks (5d22c0) — 4/13/2009 @ 4:17 amIt sounded like this, Scott …
~%^~«}\•¥£»«~%±]>}»\÷***[**%~±
JD (5e0805) — 4/13/2009 @ 4:58 am*snickers*
Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 4/13/2009 @ 6:32 amIf you let this stuff dry, it becomes stronger than concrete.
JD (5e0805) — 4/13/2009 @ 7:00 amPothole repair?
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 4/13/2009 @ 8:42 am