Patterico's Pontifications

4/9/2009

Lefty Bloggers get a Happy Ending

Filed under: General — Karl @ 4:46 am



[Posted by Karl]

There is a great disturbance in the Sinisphere:

Some of the leading liberal bloggers are privately furious with the major progressive groups — and in some cases, the Democratic Party committees — for failing to spend money advertising on their sites, even as these groups constantly ask the bloggers for free assistance in driving their message.

***

“They come to us, expecting us to give them free publicity, and we do, but it’s not a two way street,” Jane Hamsher, the founder of FiredogLake, said in an interview. “They won’t do anything in return. They’re not advertising with us. They’re not offering fellowships. They’re not doing anything to help financially, and people are growing increasingly resentful.”

Funny, when the Politico revealed the Left’s Soros-coordinated conference call for interest groups, Hamsher was singing a different tune:

“When something works for us we’ll pick up on it anyway, like the Rush Limbaugh story — we don’t need to be told,” said Jane Hamsher, the creator of the liberal blog Firedoglake. “I think we serve everyone better if we maintain our independence and preserve our ability to pick up on popular sentiment like that, rather than just bang on the same drum everyone else is.”

Kos is less hypocritical, but misses the big picture:

“Most want the easy way — having a big blogger promote their agenda,” adds Markos Moulitsas, the founder of DailyKos. “Then they turn around and spend $50K for a one-page ad in the New York Times or whatever.”

Somehow, Kos missed that the establishment media runs unchecked Lefty interest group PR as news all the time.   The New York Times was putting out Stalin’s PR decades before Moulitsas was even old enough to say “Screw “Em.”

However, this is a story proving the old adage about the squeaky wheel, as Americans United for Change — a front group for Big Labor — says it will now advertise on blogs.

–Karl

114 Responses to “Lefty Bloggers get a Happy Ending”

  1. If Soros makes another enormous killing on the present abysmal state of the world economy (as he did much earlier in his career), I’m sure the whiners will get more than their fair share.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  2. Always in a blogs best interest to say “I will only run your message if you pay for it”. Because an impression that your blog is “bought and paid for” can only add authenticity to your grassroots efforts.

    SarahW (fdd722)

  3. […] bloggers seems to have won Hamsher and her colleagues a promise from Americans United for Change to bankroll their efforts on behalf of Teh Narrative. As Hamsher says, they don’t have to be told to parrot the talking […]

    Rolling In It [Dan Collins] (7a2640)

  4. More stuff that if it was Republican would be the lead story on the MSM for a week but since its Democrat is ignored.

    SPQR (72771e)

  5. Speaking of whining, Los Angeles Times leftwing agitprop columnist Rosa Brooks, who also happens to be author Barbara Ehrenreich’s daughter, complains in her latest Op-Ed column linked here that she’s been laid off, too, even though she reveals she was a freelancer the whole time. On her way out the door, she says:

    “It’s time for a government bailout of journalism.”

    But of course. We wouldn’t expect you to work for a living.

    Here’s the most alarming part of her article:

    “This will be my last column for the L.A. Times. After four years, I’ll soon be starting a stint at the Pentagon as an advisor to the undersecretary of Defense for policy.”

    That’s right. In our Pentagon.

    Official Internet Data Office (47bf25)

  6. OIDO,
    We just had a harmonic convergence: I posted the same alarming item about Rosa Brooks in another thread.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  7. That’s really disturbing OIDO.

    SPQR (72771e)

  8. You know, OIDO, I’m rereading Douglas Feith’s “War and Decision”, and I think that’s Feith’s old office. It is an interesting contrast between the people that George W. Bush / Donald Rumsfeld had in that office – with literally decades of experience in national security policy – and clowns like this that Obama is finding.

    SPQR (72771e)

  9. Question: did Rosa Brooks pay her taxes?

    Eric Blair (bea5f0)

  10. My hat tip for the item goes to the Romenesko blog, which is an excellent daily roundup of items and gossip about the newspaper industry. To me, reading that blog (for which the author is rumored to be paid six figures annually) is like being alive 65 million years ago, to actually hear the dinosaurs screaming in agony.

    Official Internet Data Office (47bf25)

  11. OIDO,
    Convergence explained. I also saw the item on Romenesko.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  12. It is an interesting contrast between the people that George W. Bush / Donald Rumsfeld had in that office – with literally decades of experience in national security policy

    Uh, what good did any of that do? The war under Donald Rumsfeld was one of the most poorly executed and unnecessarily costly exercises in the history of the American military. Rumsfeld threw out a decade’s worth of planning for an invasion of Iraq to do it on the cheap and with a bunch of Republican-supporting private contractors getting a piece, and he personally made millions of dollars on defense stocks during his time in office.

    Rumsfeld’s record is one of incomparable failure, who cares about his experience?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  13. So on another thread…

    Holy crap, people are still bringing up the 57 states thing? Ammunition shortage indeed…

    Comment by TEH NARRATIVE — 4/9/2009 @ 7:44 am

    But here, it is important to shout canards from long ago.

    It’s so different, I know.

    Tired of Trolls (bea5f0)

  14. I’m not believing a word TEH NARRATIVE says until he produces Bush’s plans to cancel the 1st Amendment.

    I remember reading something about Diane Feinstein’s hubby getting a no-bid contract in the Iraq war. Didn’t realize he supported Republicans.

    Steverino (69d941)

  15. TEH NARRATIVE, it is completely false to claim that the war under Rumsfeld was the “most poorly executed and unnecessarily costly exercises in the history of the American military”. It shows your utter and complete ignorance of military history, especially US history.

    It would be more accurate to say that it was “most poorly executed and unnecessarily costly exercises in the history of the American military” except for every previous one.

    The American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Civil War, the Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War and Grenada – all were filled with mistakes, errors of judgment, unnecessary costs, bad intelligence, etc.

    It is just complete stupidity to write a categorical statement as false as yours.

    SPQR (72771e)

  16. So possible financial rewards drive behavior?

    Who would have thought that coming from our faux Robin Hood frems.

    Jimminy'cricket (637168)

  17. You are correct, SPQR, but it doesn’t fit—dare I write it—“the narrative” that the Left needs at present.

    It’ll be fun watching the Left of Center Limbo: when GW Bush did something, it is bad and eeeevvviiiiillll. But when B. Obama does it? Fuzzy bunnies, necessity, and “why are you bringing up old news?”

    Eric Blair (bea5f0)

  18. Eric Blair, evidently TEH NARRATIVE has never read of the fiasco entailed in assembling shipping for the invasion of Cuba in the Spanish American War, ( the reason that Teddy Roosevelt’s “Rough Rider” cavalry walked up San Juan hill ), the fact that incompetent military commanders in WWI actually spread the Spanish Influenza through the nation by moving infected troops across the nation by train, that we were surprised at Pearl Harbor because of incompetent military leadership, that US troops in the Phillipines died at the hands of the incompetent Douglas MacArthur because FDR wanted Dougout Doug in the Phillipines instead of running against him for President at home, that Truman’s own Secretary of State emboldened the North Koreans into invading the South by proclaiming a sphere of US interests in 1950 that excluded South Korea, etc.

    But no, TEH NARRATIVE’s knowledge of military history goes back no further than January 2001.

    SPQR (72771e)

  19. The war of 1812 was particularly stupid. We were pissed off at both France and Gret Britain for not respecting OUR neutrality during their little war. Both sides were interdicting our shipping and refusing to allow us to trade with other-side even though they did not have an active blockade of ports, etc.

    So we decieded to go to war with one of them an ally with the other. Which one? It didn’t really matter. We just wanted to go to war to show that we were tough and independant, gosh darnit!

    So we picked the British to go to war with and they obliterated us: blocked the major US ports, sacked Washington D.C, and terrorized our shipping.

    I’m pretty sure that this was a more expensive war and a more stupid war.

    Newtons Bit (a67c58)

  20. TEH NARRATIVE, it is completely false to claim that the war under Rumsfeld was the “most poorly executed and unnecessarily costly exercises in the history of the American military”. It shows your utter and complete ignorance of military history, especially US history.

    Yes, it is the nature of war for things to go poorly, for unexpected contingencies to pop up and the best-laid plans to be thrown out the window.

    But the above statement would be exceedingly generous to the group of idiots that, um, ‘planned’ the war in Iraq. They did not get a single thing correct, not one thing. The things that they planned for or didn’t plan for in that country, like not sending enough troops, dismissing all the Baathists, not securing the munitions dumps, and allowing looting, among dozens of other fundamental missteps, created thousands and thousands of problems that we’re still struggling to get a hold of. It isn’t incorrect to say that our own worst enemy in Iraq was Bush’s cabinet, Donald Rumsfeld was shooting us in the foot before the insurgency even got off the ground.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  21. You are correct, SPQR, but it doesn’t fit—dare I write it—”the narrative” that the Left needs at present.

    It’ll be fun watching the Left of Center Limbo: when GW Bush did something, it is bad and eeeevvviiiiillll. But when B. Obama does it? Fuzzy bunnies, necessity, and “why are you bringing up old news?”

    That’s hardly the case – there’s been more criticism by the left of Obama already than there was of Bush by conservatives for his entire 8-year run. I can go on and on about Obama and his failures, and I’d love to talk to some conservatives about it, but you guys all seem pre-occupied with really important stuff like whether or not Obama is insulting Harry Truman.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  22. Rosa Brooks will arrive at the Pentagon and promptly begin “advising” to cut defense, based upon her vast experience defending the nation at the LAT. The money for a dead tree bailout has to come from somewhere, after all.

    Chris (a24890)

  23. …but you guys all seem pre-occupied with really important stuff like whether or not Obama is insulting Harry Truman.

    Comment by TEH NARRATIVE — 4/9/2009 @ 8:29 am

    We’re actually more concerned with his insult to the historical record.

    Chris (a24890)

  24. Narrative, are you an instructor at the War College on military tactics ? Do you have extensive experience in taking over a country and deposing a dictator ? How bout experience in counter insurgency tactics ?

    I thought not. So when you say “idiots” you really don’t have any basis to judge Rumsfeld or anyone else involved in planning the war and winning the peace. In fact, the first step, invading and deposing Sadamm Hussein was spectacularly successful, with far less loss of life and property damage than expected. In that way, Rumsfeld and company succeeded.

    With your utter lack of education in military tactics, you are unable to grasp how difficult it is to conduct a counter-insurgency, while trying to set up a constitutional government. In fact, I cannot think of a time when a country did what we did in Iraq- do you honestly think setting up a constitutional government in a primarily Muslim country, with 3 different tribal sects at perpetual war with each other is easy.

    Did the Bush administration make some mistakes- yes, they did- but the fortunate thing for armchair strategists like yourself is hindsight is 20/20. Rumsfeld made missteps in the administration of the counter insurgency but was instrumental in upgrading the capability of our military with technology, which allowed the military to be more flexible as well as keeping troops out of harms way that would ordinarily be exposed to significant danger.

    And the reason there’s more criticism of Obama ? He’s incompetent, inexperienced and is running the country into the ground. Bush wasn’t nearly active in “ruining” the country in his first 3 months in office, not to mention, he actually managed to set up a working cabinet, which Obama is still having trouble doing (feel free to explain why so many nominees seem to have tax problems- yes turbo tax is complicated).

    I actually assumed you were parody at first. I hope that’s the case because honestly, nobody should be so willfully stupid.

    Matt (52203c)

  25. TEH NARRATIVE, #20, you still don’t get it. By your ridiculous standards, every war fought by the US was fought more incompetently than the Iraq invasion. Do you have any idea of how many people died from the Spanish Influenza in the US because Woodrow Wilson’s commanders shipped troops around the nation spreading the disease? Any clue how incompetently run the suppression of the Moro insurgency in the Phillipines? George Washington’s botched defense of New York? How many tens of thousands of Union troops died from incompetent command in the Civil War? The incompetence of Truman to put South Korea under the virtual dictatorship of Rhee?

    Nope, you have no clue.

    SPQR (72771e)

  26. Some of these things of TEH NARRATIVE always piss me off.

    “dismissing all the Baathists,”

    Like dismissing all the National Socialist members in occupied Germany …

    ” not securing the munitions dumps,

    This one annoys me because the entire damn country was a munitions dump. I had good friends in Iraq who spent most of 2003 and a lot of 2004 searching for and securing munitions dumps.

    Just utter stupidity from critics dressed up as deep thoughts.

    SPQR (72771e)

  27. How was the massage?

    “All this time you were pretending,
    So much for my happy ending.”
    — That weird chick singer

    mojo (8096f2)

  28. What the story-teller seems to forget, is that the original head of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) was Lt.Gen Jay Garner, who wished to hand control of the country back to the Iraqi’s as quickly as possible, and was not in favor of de-Baathification. His position was opposed by some in the DoD inner-circle, and by most of the power centers at State, and he was replaced very early on by L.Paul Bremer, who had been Amb. to Holland. From that point on, it was the Internationalists at State that were predominant in philosophy controlling the occupation, even though CPA was a child of Defense.
    Bremer was the disaster, not Rumsfeld IMO. It was Rumsfeld’s support of the light, fast attack that was opposed by Shinseki, who might have been right about the number of troops needed if you look at the occupation (even if he even addressed that issue), but was wrong about the numbers needed for the attack and change of government.
    But, the story-teller has his TPM, and by-golly, he’s going to stick with it to the end.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  29. SPQR: If I recall correctly, the invasion commanders were told to NOT blow up munitions dumps that they stumbled on. They were to mark them on a map and call in a team that would investigate them for WMD.

    The reason for this was that during Gulf War I, US commanders would regularly detonate enemy munitions dumps, releasing all sorts of toxic chemicals. These chemicals are thought to be responsible for Gulf War Syndrome. The brass didn’t want a repeat of large numbers of soldiers becoming sick and incapacitated for the rest of their life. What jerks, geez.

    Unfortunately, there were many more dumps than teams assigned to desposing of them.

    Newtons Bit (a67c58)

  30. Back to the topic:

    If a company wants to increase sales of its product, is the company newsletter the first place that it picks to spend its advertising dollars?

    Terry (2e345a)

  31. Terry – For those with a tenuous grip on reality, and no business experience, that is a completely logical way to start.

    Echo chamber, indeed.

    JD (2f33d2)

  32. Is there any topic that does not cause Teh Narrative’s end-stage BDS out of control ?

    JD (2f33d2)

  33. Now you are being rhetorical, JD. By the way, Michigan is a nice place!

    Eric Blair (bea5f0)

  34. And I am always bemused by people who lack any expertise in military matters (other than reading Rolling Stone magazine) popping off about how things ought be run.

    Especially when they clearly (as amply demonstrated above) have no historical context.

    But then, you can’t blame them. None of that is taught in school anymore.

    Eric Blair (bea5f0)

  35. Well, weren’t we told by Francis Fukayama that “history was over”?
    (I wonder if he’ll ever be able to live that one down?)

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  36. The Bushies may have been idiots, but they were pro-American. I’d rather have a pro-American idiot than a “brilliant” America hater in that office.

    Patricia (94c68d)

  37. That village really wants its idiot back.

    JD (72cf0d)

  38. No, their gain is our loss!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  39. How long until it starts squealing about Mission Accomplished?

    JD (72cf0d)

  40. Some of these things of TEH NARRATIVE always piss me off.

    “dismissing all the Baathists,”

    Like dismissing all the National Socialist members in occupied Germany …

    Saddam made teachers, laywers, and doctors join the Baathist party. They were hardly Nazis, and we went in there and told all those people that could have been pivotal during the reconstruction to get lost.

    ” not securing the munitions dumps,”

    This one annoys me because the entire damn country was a munitions dump. I had good friends in Iraq who spent most of 2003 and a lot of 2004 searching for and securing munitions dumps

    Well no sh**. That’s why they should have sent an appropriate amount of force. You shouldn’t try to occupy a country on a shoe-string budget, but oh yeah, they thought the whole thing would be over in six weeks.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  41. has never read of the fiasco entailed in assembling shipping for the invasion of Cuba in the Spanish American War

    DUH SEDATIVE: “what the hell are you talking about? We didn’t invade Spain, you idiot!”

    “That’s hardly the case – there’s been more criticism by the left of Obama already than there was of Bush by conservatives for his entire 8-year run.”

    Translation: “I proclaim victory whilst taking my lithium dose! HA HA HA!”

    Dmac (49b16c)

  42. You shouldn’t try to occupy a country on a shoe-string budget,

    Translation: “You need at least eleventy billion somoleans.”

    Dmac (49b16c)

  43. The story-teller once more demonstrates his complete lack of knowledge on the subject he pontificates upon.
    No one forced anyone to become a Baathist, just as no one was forced to become a Nazi, or forced to join the CP-USSR.
    These were voluntary acts taken by individuals to advance themselves in their chosen fields.
    Moron!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  44. The average posting age around here has got to be what, 4 or 5? Is this your first run-in with a computer Dmac?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  45. BTW, it was over in six-weeks; and, no one knew the extent of the munitions dumps that existed in Iraq prior to the invasion thanks to the dismantling of on-the-ground intel in the CIA during the Carter years (Thanks, Frank!) and Congress’ refusal to fund (or authorize) a rebuilding of that capability.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  46. The story-teller once more demonstrates his complete lack of knowledge on the subject he pontificates upon.
    No one forced anyone to become a Baathist, just as no one was forced to become a Nazi, or forced to join the CP-USSR.
    These were voluntary acts taken by individuals to advance themselves in their chosen fields.
    Moron!

    The Baathists were not Nazis, that’s a ridiculous comparison – there was nothing so sinister or systematic in the Baathist party as the genocidal and world-domination aspirations of the Nazis, so stop exaggerating.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  47. BTW, it was over in six-weeks; and, no one knew the extent of the munitions dumps that existed in Iraq prior to the invasion thanks to the dismantling of on-the-ground intel in the CIA during the Carter years (Thanks, Frank!) and Congress’ refusal to fund (or authorize) a rebuilding of that capability.

    What a lame excuse. There’s no amount you can spend on intelligence that will give you an accurate, up-to-the-minute snapshot of whatever country you’re planning to invade. You simply have to be adaptable and responsive when things get started, qualities that the American military did not have because of the uniformly poor performance of the civilian leadership.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  48. Now you show your ignorance of the foundations of the Baathist Party,
    which is historically linked with the German National Socialist Workers Party.
    Plus, I was not saying they were the same, only that membership in these movements (Baath, Nazi, Communist) were taken voluntarily by the individuals in order to advance within the societies that they were members of.
    Nice attempt at deflection, but no cigar.
    You truly are a Moron!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  49. Comment by TEH NARRATIVE — 4/9/2009 @ 12:28 pm

    “You truly are a Moron!”

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  50. “Is this your first run-in with a computer?”

    Gee, I don’t know – are you still referring to posting comments that you actually made yourself, or is that just the voices in your head?

    BTW, DUH SEDATIVE, still waiting on that timeline detailing your awesome career arc. Why have you suddenly gone silent on the subject, after posting voluminous accounts on your many excellent adventures?

    Come now, why so shy? Is there something wrong? Really, you can tell us, we’d understand if it was of an organic nature.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  51. Silly question, but is there any topic Teh Narrative will discuss honestly?

    JD (72cf0d)

  52. Now you show your ignorance of the foundations of the Baathist Party,
    which is historically linked with the German National Socialist Workers Party.
    Plus, I was not saying they were the same, only that membership in these movements (Baath, Nazi, Communist) were taken voluntarily by the individuals in order to advance within the societies that they were members of.
    Nice attempt at deflection, but no cigar.
    You truly are a Moron!

    The point is that this was a country we were trying to rebuild and it was just stupid to assert that Hussein’s crimes tainted every Baathist. It was a dictatorship, remember? It’s not like Iraqis had tons of options laid out before them, and it’s not like being a member of the Baathist party meant you were shoving people into ovens. This was the upper-middle class of Iraqi society, and we told them to disappear.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  53. BTW, DUH SEDATIVE, still waiting on that timeline detailing your awesome career arc. Why have you suddenly gone silent on the subject, after posting voluminous accounts on your many excellent adventures?

    I don’t believe that several posts ripping off the Dos Equis’ “Most Interesting Man in the World” marketing campaign qualifies as a “voluminous account”.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  54. The Baathists were not Nazis, that’s a ridiculous comparison – there was nothing so sinister or systematic in the Baathist party as the genocidal and world-domination aspirations of the Nazis, so stop exaggerating.

    So the comparison that Bush was like Hitler would also be an exaggeration, if we use the logic stated above. But oh, I forgot, it’s the ‘truth’ because lefties say it is.

    willnot (b4f851)

  55. The story-teller is channelling George Patton now –
    next he’ll be telling us that being a Baathist is just like being a Democrat, or a Republican.
    That argument didn’t go over so well in 1945, and it doesn’t go over very well now, either.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  56. Gee, I don’t know – are you still referring to posting comments that you actually made yourself, or is that just the voices in your head?

    BTW, DUH SEDATIVE, still waiting on that timeline detailing your awesome career arc. Why have you suddenly gone silent on the subject, after posting voluminous accounts on your many excellent adventures?

    Come now, why so shy? Is there something wrong? Really, you can tell us, we’d understand if it was of an organic nature.

    Sorry, but casual chatting is not what I’m here for.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  57. This was the upper-middle class of Iraqi society, and we told them to disappear.

    Not exactly, but heaven forbid TEH NARRATIVE should ask why how it was that Baath members had the wealth and position they did, or how the majority of Iraqis felt about it.

    Karl (ea222a)

  58. Sorry, but casual chatting is not what I’m here for.
    Comment by TEH NARRATIVE — 4/9/2009 @ 12:46 pm

    Nor reasoned discourse, either, it seems.

    Still stuck on Moron!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  59. The story-teller is channelling George Patton now –
    next he’ll be telling us that being a Baathist is just like being a Democrat, or a Republican.
    That argument didn’t go over so well in 1945, and it doesn’t go over very well now, either.

    I mean does anyone want to step in here? I know there have got to be some conservatives that understand that there is pretty much nothing that the Baathists and Nazis had in common. Anybody?

    Even if you are mindlessly eager to equate the Baathists with the Nazis, maybe you can acknowledge the fact that we didn’t automatically fire every one of the teachers, lawyers, and doctors in Germany that had been involved with the party?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  60. It reminds me of an old phonograph that keeps skipping.

    JD (72cf0d)

  61. The History Channel has a picture of Saddam Hussein’s uncle shaking hands with Adolf Hitler.

    It’s not a question of whether or not the Baathists “were Nazis.” The Baath party had extensive connections to Nazi Germany both from a political perspective and a real politique angle. They did admire the efficiency of Nazi government but were more interested in gaining German help to oust British troops from Arab lands (The enemy of my enemy is my friend.)

    To say that the Baath Party “had nothing to do with the Nazi’s” is demonstrably false.

    BJTexs (56337a)

  62. Nobody wants to step in because it is fun to watch you argue against points that only exist in your fevered imagination.

    JD (72cf0d)

  63. Oh, and Teh Narrative? There are numerous comparisons that can be made between Baathists and Nazi’s, especially in terms of Governing Philosophy and treatment of Enemies of the state.

    Look it up!

    BJTexs (56337a)

  64. I wonder what the Kurds think of the Baathists.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  65. Not exactly, but heaven forbid TEH NARRATIVE should ask why how it was that Baath members had the wealth and position they did, or how the majority of Iraqis felt about it.

    But what can you do? Those are the characteristics of the country that you chose to invade. If you want to occupy it and if you want to build it into something better, you have to take stock of what’s left, and try to utilize what you can. You don’t just start getting rid of things, you don’t just get rid of the military, or the elites, you don’t just stand idly by while museums are looted and destroyed. The problem with the Bush administration was that they forced a blank slate on Iraq that they didn’t need and that couldn’t exist in reality anyway.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  66. We did in Japan(with the exception of The Emperor –
    which could have been a mistake by MacArthur
    [historians are still arguing about that IIRC]),
    and also in Germany – both of those seem to have turned out quite well.

    I suppose you were in favor of the Biden-Plan to break the country up into three pieces and just walk away from it, and the ensueing chaos?

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  67. Teh Narrative: This site has the information about the Baathists associations with Nazi Germany and the Party. It’s somewhat overheated but the historical facts are correct.

    Here’s an excerpt from the book “The Iraqi Invation of Kuwait” by Musallam Ali Musallam

    “(Saddam’s) relations with some members of his extended family were better, and he chose to move in with his uncle Khairallah, whose deep hatred for imperialism and admiration for the Nazis influenced Saddam from his early days.”

    Reading is Fun – damental!

    BJTexs (56337a)

  68. The problem with the Bush administration was that they forced a blank slate on Iraq that they didn’t need and that couldn’t exist in reality anyway.

    And yet, despite those challenges, Iraq is now a representative government with three national election sunder its belt and the incidents of relatives showing up on front steps in garbage bags has declined dramatically, after some fits and starts. The end result is the only “real” representative government in the Arab/Persian Middle East with the exception of Turkey.

    Yup, you’re right. Massive failure, completely bollixed.

    Someone please explain to TN how difficult tasks are and how easy whining about them after the fact is.

    BJTexs (56337a)

  69. We could do that,
    just as soon as we get the TPM on it!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  70. BJ – Teh Narrative TM is impervious to facts.

    JD (72cf0d)

  71. Somebody needs to clue me in when someone like TN fires up the Fact Less Shield of Duh!

    BJTexs (56337a)

  72. Sorry, but casual chatting is not what I’m here for

    Translation – everything I claimed are lies and complete fabrications, including the following:

    – having personally met Von Braun;

    – having worked for NASA;

    – having worked for Exxon

    – having worked as a Head Fluffer on The North Pole

    – worked as corpse #2 on a snuff film

    Wait, check those last two – we all agree that you definitely are pegged for that job.

    Come on, Rocket Man – let’s here the details of your exploits:

    And i think it’s gonna be a long long time
    Till touch down brings me round again to find
    I’m not the Tranny they think i am at home
    Oh no no no i’m a rocket man
    Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone

    Dmac (49b16c)

  73. But, I thought it was DuckCrap who was tight with Werner, not The StoryTeller?

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  74. Who can tell anymore? But you’re correct – my bad.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  75. Everyone will be shocked to discover that TEH NARRATIVE vastly overstates what was the US de-Baathification policy.

    Karl (ea222a)

  76. Yup, you’re right. Massive failure, completely bollixed.

    It’s not a massive failure, a few people have gotten very rich from the whole affair. Which in the wake of no apparent benefit for the United States and the utter devastation inflicted on the Iraqi population, leaves me to believe that the only reason this war was started in the first place was to open up a previously closed emerging market and to expand the military-industrial complex.

    By the way, it’s not a representative government, or any other kind of government for that matter, until it can stand on its own, which it quite clearly cannot do. And regardless of what you and I might think about why this war was started, it should have been conducted better….

    …. until you realize that conducting it poorly was the whole point. If you’re starting a war to make money for your friends, why hand out one contract to build one school, when you could hand out dozens of contracts to build dozens of schools?

    If someone can explain to me what the value of a no-bid, cost-plus contract is, particularly when the contracts are to be carried out in a lawless warzone on the other side of the world, I might be dissuaded from my ‘Blood for Oil’ conspiracy theories. Until then, I’ll follow the money, which leads back to a group of shameless war profiteers that’s got a bunch of evangelical and free-market fundamentalists wrapped around their fat, greedy fingers.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  77. Karl, you mean they just didn’t take them out and shoot them,
    or feed them into the industrial shredders?
    I am shocked, shocked I tell you!
    Those images were seared indelibly into my brain.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  78. Oops. Someone found a new, old, dusty, whatever, TPM to recite from.
    Still stuck on Moron!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  79. Building schools = expansion of the military-industrial complex.

    COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!

    COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!

    Karl (ea222a)

  80. Oops. Someone found a new, old, dusty, whatever, TPM to recite from.
    Still stuck on Moron!

    Well, come on. Since you guys are the free market gurus, I’d like to know why it’s smart for someone in the government to hand out contracts with no competition that guarantee profit no matter what.

    You’ve got some talking points somewhere for that, don’t you?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  81. By the way, it’s not a representative government, or any other kind of government for that matter, until it can stand on its own, which it quite clearly cannot do.

    Memo to Europe.

    Karl (ea222a)

  82. Building schools = expansion of the military-industrial complex.

    COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!

    COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!

    More like this:

    Building schools in a warzone = expansion of the military-industrial complex

    Keep acting like a child, the same guys profiting off the war in Iraq are now funneling money out of the treasury.

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  83. Since you guys are the free market gurus, I’d like to know why it’s smart for someone in the government to hand out contracts with no competition that guarantee profit no matter what.

    It might have something to do with the fact that the US Government is, in fact, not a business. And that incentives might be required to get the private sector to produce goods and services in the middle of a war zone.

    Karl (ea222a)

  84. Oh wow, Teh managed to trip itself up there in No. 82.

    Karl (ea222a)

  85. It might have something to do with the fact that the US Government is, in fact, not a business. And that incentives might be required to get the private sector to produce goods and services in the middle of a war zone.

    But why wouldn’t you open that process up to bidding? Why would you give them a percentage of what they spend and not put in any sort of oversight to make sure they’re not running up costs? Does it make you even remotely suspicious about Dick Cheney’s motives that he used to run the very company that received the bulk of these contracts? Can you really chalk that up as some insignificant coincidence?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  86. Oh wow, Teh managed to trip itself up there in No. 82.

    How’s that?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  87. TEH NARRATIVE demonstrated his ignorance of history and current affairs both with this gem: “I mean does anyone want to step in here? I know there have got to be some conservatives that understand that there is pretty much nothing that the Baathists and Nazis had in common. Anybody?

    Let’s see, there are the historical links between them as nationalist and socialist political movements … and there are analogous descriptions of them as tyrannical political movements … and there are analogies between the positions of an occupier of a nation and the defeated political leadership …

    But since Iraqis don’t speak German, yep, nothing in common.

    Sheesh, what a display of ignorance.

    SPQR (72771e)

  88. Oh, and by the way, literally any history of the 2003 invasion will display just how stupidly false this line was: “You simply have to be adaptable and responsive when things get started, qualities that the American military did not have because of the uniformly poor performance of the civilian leadership.

    SPQR (72771e)

  89. It’s not a massive failure, a few people have gotten very rich from the whole affair.

    He said this about the banks, too. A few people get very rich off everything, apparently. IT’S ALL A SET UP, I TELL YOU!!!!!!

    Steverino (69d941)

  90. It says quite a lot about this one in that is the only conclusion it could arrive at.

    I know, this is a silly question, but maybe asshat can tell us exactly how many companies in the world have the capability and scope to work on these projects? Care to hazard a guess? Care to explain why these contracts should not be “no-bid”, or even what that concept actually means, and how it came to be?

    Meh.

    JD (72cf0d)

  91. It might be a silly question, but that’s because it was a silly assertion in the first place. Typical of “TEH NARRATIVE”s comments.

    In fact, anyone with any intelligence would recognize the answer embedded in his silly comment: “If someone can explain to me what the value of a no-bid, cost-plus contract is, particularly when the contracts are to be carried out in a lawless warzone on the other side of the world,

    SPQR (72771e)

  92. Agreed, SPQR. This type cannot be reasoned with.

    JD (72cf0d)

  93. JD, well in his world there are a whole passel of evil corporations who just loooove to do detailed competitive bidding for construction projects in the middle of a warzone.

    Oh, and the fact that KBR might have already been awarded a cost plus support contract for the military during the Clinton administration is of course completely irrelevant …

    SPQR (72771e)

  94. But why wouldn’t you open that process up to bidding?

    Fine – then please tell us whom you would select to do this kind of unique work, since you feel that the US Gov’t should not be involved in something so unseemly as building public schools in Iraq.

    BTW, keep in mind that the evil Halliburton was originally set up as a quasi – private/gov’t company, in response to screeching US Congresscritters decrying the waste involved in no – bid contracts. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of bids for massive infrastructure projects, Halliburton is still the only contractor in the world with the resources and expertise to actually perform the work required.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  95. Folks, I’ve figured it out. TEH NARRATIVE is Jerry Fletcher!

    Steverino (69d941)

  96. You guys are both right. But people like Teh Narrative are dishonest on an even more fundamental level. It does not even know what an evil “no bid” contract is, how the concept came to be, and why they are utilized.

    Dmac – I think Bechtel is prolly capable, in scope, but giving these contracts to a French company?

    JD (72cf0d)

  97. No-bid ooga booga …. BOO !!!!

    JD (72cf0d)

  98. The Storyteller refuses to recognize the manner in which the gov’t works with sole-source contracting:
    When certain activities are found to be unavailable in the larger world of commerce (at least not being able to satisfy MIL-SPEC requirements) those activities are restricted to a descreet list of prior-approved contractors. If two or more can satisfy the requirements, and time is not a factor, competitive bidding can be let out. If time is a factor, or there is only one pre-approved source, sole-source contracting is allowed without a bid.
    This was how KBR and many other war-zone contractors were engaged – they were the only MIL-SPEC approved contractors who had the capabilities desired by Defense, or other agencies who piggy-backed upon the process (I believe this is how Blackwater got their contract with State).
    There was nothing nefarious in the manner in which these contracts were let, and they were subject to the same review process by IG’s as competitive bidding. If you don’t like this system, which is an out-growth of the contracting system review done under McNamara in the Kennedy/Johnson years, call your Congresskritter and ask for changes – but, this is the system installed by, and approved by Congress.
    BTW, if you had ever been in the Military, you would know that the knowledge that whatever you were operating was the end result of the lowest bidder, is not especially reassuring.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  99. Oh, nonsense, AD. Why just the other day, Manuel, the guy who does all my construction projects, was saying how much he wanted to bid on building a school in the middle of Fallujah.

    SPQR (72771e)

  100. I wish him well.
    BTW, does he speak Arabic? He’ll be dealing with the Iraqi’s now.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  101. If he’s going to Iraq, shouldn’t he speak Iraqian?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  102. Oh, that’s cold!

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

  103. fear of working in a location = reason not to create war zone

    Cisco (983921)

  104. Cisco, that is an attempt at humor, right?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  105. You war-mongering war profiteering blood thirsty devils running around creating war zones so you can reward you crony capitalist buddies with no bid contracts to rebuild a peaceful peace lovin society that would have been content to remain a 3rd world country under the oppressive regime of a tyrant than a marionette of the imperialist capitalist running dogs.

    NO WAR/BLOOD FOR OIL !!!!

    JD (72cf0d)

  106. Cisco kids…was a friend of mine. Name the group, get a poncho, Sanza. Hey, Cisco, wait for meeeee…Duncan Renaldo, the original latino yo-yo champion. Thursday trippin’ on trivia.

    allan (b2f25c)

  107. Ironically, Cisco Kid was recorded by the group “War”

    carlitos (92022c)

  108. I think Bechtel is prolly capable, in scope

    I don’t believe they have the necessary infrastructure yet, JD – but while I could be mistaken, they certainly didn’t have it during the Iraqi reconstruction.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  109. Right Wingers Just Don’t Understand Business. . . and the Stupid Continues

    It’s staggering just how ignorant right wing bloggers are about how the business of media works, or business in general. Which wouldn’t be so ironic if they didn’t run around thumping their chests about the virtues of “free markets” and capitalism all the time.

    Jane Hamsher makes me laugh. She’s the one whining about not getting money and ad revenues from the progressives, right?

    Dana (d08a3a)

  110. No Dana it sounds like she closed the deal.

    Is the blogosphere-for-profit market a free market?

    EdWood (b9af3b)

  111. AI guess this puts Jane Hamsher on the same level as Armstrong Williams,
    and we know how much grief he received.

    AD - RtR/OS (da3c7c)

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  113. […] would seem that AARP is less impressed with the netroots’ complaints than, say, Americans United for Change (although I should note that even the latter left itself some wiggle room, there), but that’s […]

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