Patterico's Pontifications

3/26/2009

GOP Submits Its Own Plans

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:28 am



Politico:

House Republicans have begun unveiling detailed alternatives to President Barack Obama’s policies — a concerted effort to push back against Democratic efforts to label them “the Party of No.”

On Wednesday, it was a housing plan. Thursday, it will be a big, TV-friendly stack of budget blueprints, “The Republican Road to Recovery.” That’s to match the president’s own platitudinous budget title, “A New Era of Responsibility.”

The House Republicans’ budget document, provided to POLITICO ahead of its release, makes sure no one can miss the point: Each chapter begins “The Republican Plan,” and each section is divided into “The President’s Budget” and “Republicans’ Solution.”

House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said the housing proposal that he rolled out with eight other House Republicans on Tuesday was “in response to the administration — and the president himself, who continues to say that Republicans don’t have any ideas.”

“We’re here today to say yes we do,” Cantor said. “This is one in a series. It will not be the last. We are committed to trying to pull the agenda back to the mainstream and to respond to the problems facing America’s families today.”

Is this a good thing? It depends on what the ideas are.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need your own solution. If your solution is a true return to smaller government and personal responsibility, great. But if your solution is more of the same, stick to fighting the other guy’s solution.

I can’t tell which this is, and I don’t trust the Republicans implicitly. Show us the details.

125 Responses to “GOP Submits Its Own Plans”

  1. I think it’s tactically wise, if nothing else; and with any luck the plans will have good ideas which will be merged into whatever Congress ends up adopting.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  2. Compared to the Obamabots, I trust the Republicans implicitly. Until they prove they are unworthy of that trust.

    Dr. K (f196bc)

  3. Question: Will you be upset if the market turns around in the next four years?

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  4. Question: will you apologize to Stash (and Patterico) for being a jackass yesterday?

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  5. Question: Why do you think that posing hypothetical questions qualifies me as a jackass?

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  6. Since you were threadjacking, I thought it was important to go back to your rude behavior of yesterday, for which you walked away scot-free.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  7. Oh, no I didn’t EB. I walked away with many, many scots. You don’t even know, my place is filled with them.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  8. Oh, no I didn’t EB. I walked away with many, many scots.

    For those of use who understand the meaning of “scot-free”, this is almost hysterical.

    Steverino (69d941)

  9. Comment by Steverino — 3/26/2009 @ 8:41 am

    🙂

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  10. It is a vile disgusting ass, Eric. A zit on the asscheeks of humanity.

    JD (e54d51)

  11. Your eloquence astounds me, JD. Are you a dingleberry poet, or just a moonlighting dingleberry poet?

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  12. An honorable person would be ashamed to have written what you did about Stash. You are not.

    JD (e54d51)

  13. Back to the topic at hand: I’m eager to hear what either side has to say about the impending crisis in Social Security.

    PBS is reporting that the long run of SS Surpluses is ending.

    http://tinyurl.com/csqgu6

    Techie (9c008e)

  14. A cowardly little git – proclaims victory after sliming a member of the armed services.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  15. Well techie I heard Republicans like to starve old people so there is that.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  16. Mr. Pink. Under the Democratic health care plan, some government decider will be able to deny needed healthcare to the elderly. They don’t contribute taxes to the Obama machine anymore anyway so who needs them. One death is tragic, a million deaths is a statistic, J. Stalin. I am reminded of W. Ayers study group on how to rid America of those who are deemed unworthy. Your freedoms are slipping away faster than you will believe and yet we wait.

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III (e461c0)

  17. House Republicans I was trusting there for awhile but then a lot of them voted to steal the money from those people who work at that insurance company. Sickening little fascists, those ones.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  18. When I read:

    “..my place is filled with them….”

    I thought that, indeed, his place is filled with something.

    You really should apologize.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  19. Here is the roll call Michelle Malkin put together. I didn’t see it get as much attention as I thought it should.

    These ones walk among us.

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  20. “I thought that, indeed, his place is filled with something.”

    Eric, that would depend on what your definition of what “his place” actually entails. Multiple choice of one of the following possibilities:

    1) spare bedroom in parent’s retirement complex
    2) computer terminal in public library
    3) back office of Staples
    4) local Wi – Fi connection at Starbucks (Triple Mocha Frappucino, decaf)
    5) fry cook station at McDonald’s

    Dmac (49b16c)

  21. Techie – the long run of social security surplusses has been expected to end. In the short term, the solution is to raise or remove the cap on the tax, and to raise the retirement age. I don’t know if that’s sufficient in the long term.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  22. Mr. Pink. Under the Democratic health care plan, some government decider will be able to deny needed healthcare to the elderly. They don’t contribute taxes to the Obama machine anymore anyway so who needs them. One death is tragic, a million deaths is a statistic, J. Stalin. I am reminded of W. Ayers study group on how to rid America of those who are deemed unworthy. Your freedoms are slipping away faster than you will believe and yet we wait.

    This strikes me as being the precise analog of the people who were claiming a few years ago that under Bush’s plans, the agents of the state would be listening to every phone call and using what they heard as an excuse to round up malcontents and shove them in concentration camps. They’re both hyperbolic rhetoric grounded less in fact than in fear and distrust of the other political tribe.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  23. You know, aphrael, I have often wondered if all the shenanigans with illegal immigration might be a “trick” to help supply SS with cash?

    Paranoid, I know.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  24. It is important to tell the People you have a plan , even if you don’t, and even if it does not matter since the House and Senate Democrats are not going to consider it.

    Jimminy'cricket (637168)

  25. aphrael you must have never read any news stories on the British socialized healthcare system. They routinely deny services to the elderly.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  26. Comment by JD — 3/26/2009 @ 8:54 am

    I still contend that killing an innocent person is wrong. That is what I posted yesterday, JD. Do you have a problem with that?

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  27. aphrael,
    With respect, the examples of government care in Canada and England are not encouraging. PC groups get priority over medical need and people deemed fat or old are denied care as not being a good investment. I’m not sure at least some doubts are not appropriate.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  28. Techie – the long run of social security surplusses has been expected to end. In the short term, the solution is to raise or remove the cap on the tax, and to raise the retirement age. I don’t know if that’s sufficient in the long term.

    The cap on the tax exists because there’s a cap on the benefit.

    Steverino (69d941)

  29. “We’re here today to say yes we do,” Cantor said. “This is one in a series. It will not be the last. We are committed to trying to pull the agenda back to the mainstream and to respond to the problems facing America’s families today.”

    I’m just relieved they’re actually working toward something other than just covering their backsides in the AIG bonus debacle, etc. Now if that something is indeed, scaling back, downsizing and eliminating governmental waste, then perhaps our national nightmare can end sooner rather than later.

    Dana (137151)

  30. EfP – You smared the honor of a good man, Stash. You should be ashamed of yourself. That you are not, and continue to lie about, says much about your character, or lack thereof.

    JD (0d1f38)

  31. EfP, I gave you a direct link to the research you could’ve done instead of joining the HV choir of lies and misrepresentations. You obviously didn’t do your homework. Or, you prefer to lie and throw out defamatory remarks.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  32. How is the comment “I still contend that killing an innocent person is wrong” in any way defamatory, Hitch? I don’t need to research anything to make that statement.

    Given the situation that you gave me yesterday, if you were absolutely, 100% certain (even more certain than the juries that sentence innocent people to death row every year through our judicial system) that the individual in question had found your home 5000 miles away…. well then, sure, go get ’em. Just so we’re clear, you’d better make sure there is no ‘collateral damage’, or you really have just traded innocent lives for innocent lives. Old Eddy doesn’t think that is protected by the constitution.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  33. I also notice that the folks on here are much quicker in demanding apologies than issuing them. I have seen too many left-leaning commentators on here snubbed on their apology requests, but one is demanded from them for every single comment they make that may discredit one of your wingnut fantasies.

    You must be the change you want to see in the world.
    Gandhi

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  34. I’m more interested in these links.

    First, Stash argued here, in response to HV:

    https://patterico.com/2009/03/23/the-punch-drunk-presidency/#comment-477453

    and Ed from PA’s link:

    https://patterico.com/2009/03/23/the-punch-drunk-presidency/#comment-477458

    This is the place where he, Ed from PA, calls Stash an “ignorant sociopath.”

    And that, friends and neighbors, merits an apology.

    On the other hand, Ed from PA, please justify your insult to Stash, and make sure you e-mail copy your righteous answer to Patterico.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  35. “It is important to tell the People you have a plan , even if you don’t,”

    There you go again, nattering on about policies and “plans.”

    When, oh when, will it ever occur to you that the general populace doesn’t give two figs about any “plans” you may have to counter the Dem agenda? All the general populace wants to see is GOP OPPOSITION, and they’re not getting that when they see what you do to good Republicans while you natter on about “plans” (see that Michelle Malkin link above. Talk about not wanting to pick your battles!).

    Why should anyone hear what you have to say when you’ve amply demonstrated you won’t stand behind your boys?

    Brad S (9f6740)

  36. On, and on the subject of apologies? You might review aphrael’s exchange with Stash on that subject.

    Where is your apology?

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  37. Why dont you send me the link, EB. Not all of us have the time to neglect our students to sift through 400 comments to find the golden nugget you’re looking for.

    And yes, I called him that. The comments I had read, and specificallly the quote that was being discussed, merited that response. As I have established on more than one occassion with regard to this particular subject, killing an innocent person is wrong.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  38. 33, 34, Ed quit projecting. You lefties are quick to demand apologies, but rarely give them out no matter how needed. You reap what you sow. As a group, you lefties are self-righteous Sumb-itches. Not a one of you is worth sitting down for a beer with as you would be arguing the beer, if not demanding chardonnay at your guest’s expense.

    PCD (02f8c1)

  39. Ed from PA,

    Smearing a better man than yourself does not raise your own status among men, quite the contrary. You don’t have the sense or knowledge of honor to understand what an apology is and you have gone too far for one to mean anything so I don’t call on you to make one. You are a low and craven excuse for a man. Silence would be best at this point. I don’t expect you to see that.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  40. “… and we put the substance over a bunsen burner to find out if the flame would be orange or green…”

    “There’s where you’re wrong. Nobody should be torching hydrocarbons in schools. That’s pyromania and could well be illegal.”

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  41. Why don’t you look it up, since you are so quick to judge others? It’s on the very same thread where you acted like a jackass. It shouldn’t be tough for you.

    You know what? I realize you are an unpleasant little troll, but I will show you:

    https://patterico.com/2009/03/23/the-punch-drunk-presidency/#comment-477723

    Aphrael is a left of center progressive with honor. You, not so much.

    I am so glad that you feel that Stash merited your calling him an ignorant sociopath. And even gladder that you feel it doesn’t require an apology.

    Please, go into more detail. And copy Patterico, since you are so freakin’ righteous. Truth to Power, troll!

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  42. As a group, you lefties are self-righteous Sumb-itches. Not a one of you is worth sitting down for a beer with as you would be arguing the beer, if not demanding chardonnay at your guest’s expense.

    That’s a bit harsh.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  43. Comment by PCD — 3/26/2009 @ 11:31 am

    That is so wise of you, you know, how you responded to my charge with the exact same argument augmented with curses. You, my friend, are a very very smart individual.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  44. Aphrael, see #42. We may not agree, but you show honor.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  45. And you apology, Ed?

    In fact, cut out the middle man. Please write to Patterico, directly, to justify your comments.

    He’ll be very interested, I promise.

    What’s that? Not interested?

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  46. Aphrael, I would have to agree with you.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  47. Eric, to be fair, the backstory to that isn’t clear just from the comments linked. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect anyone to infer from those comments what kind of behavior you would like to see in them – it just looks like two random guys complimenting each other for no apparent reason.

    For a summary of the backstory, suffice it to say that the first time we argued, Stashiu3 responded to me by assuming I was someone else with a similar name, and attributing to me that individual’s behavior.

    I responded by being very firm, clearly and patiently explaining my position, and trying very hard to become no more than mildly irritated.

    As soon as Stashiu realized he had the wrong guy, he apologized, and we’ve always gotten along very well after that.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  48. Does Ed ever come up with his own smears or does he just suck up and regurgitate those Hax excretes as he did here? The image of this little man following along repeating what another says as he hides behind him is disturbing in adults.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  49. I respect that apherael. I don’t know much about Stash, but from what I’ve heard he seems like a good guy. My favorite part about Stash is that he seems to have a life away from this site (I am looking at you, Mr. Blair).

    Shouldn’t Stash ask for the apology? EB, your panties get tangled up in everybody else’s business. What good would an apology be if he is not here to read it? I sure as sh*t won’t post one for your pleasure. I find you to be one of the most myopic, egotistical posters on this site. Your only redemption is that your arguments aren’t as curse-laden as PCD’s, and you seem to have a good 30-40 IQ points on him (which is actually saying more about PCD than you, but I digress)…

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  50. aphrael,
    I often disagree with you but I always look to your comments with interest. They are often a thoughtful look from a different perspective. My respects.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  51. Catch a sound-bite. Throw out heated opinion. Get shown were source information resides. Refuse to examine source information. Continue with heated opinion, defaming someone when source information could effect understanding and position. Continue to refuse to examine information placed in hands.

    Sound familiar?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  52. Machinist, your constant demand for apologies on behalf of others is awesome. Rarely, outside of certain commenters of that other website has “victimhood by proxy” been exercised so well or wonderfully.

    Seriously, though, you’re missing a real opportunity to get even more apologies! Make Ed and Hax apologize for just disagreeing with you on other stuff too: like voting for Obama, taxes or their failure to recognize the importance of your 1850’s antebellum sense of what honor means.

    As for Ed and Hax, you guys should apologize to Stash, even if you don’t mean it. In doing so, you might shut the holier than thou chorus up long enough to discuss 64% approval ratings and Eric Cantor’s attendance of a freakin’ Britney Spear’s concert rather than watching the Prez’s presser.

    timb (a83d56)

  53. And the Three Amigos are here!

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  54. Machinist – Edpa does occasionally come up with his own smears, but they are usually based on innaccurate talking points he read from some left-kult blog.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  55. Ed would not like Stash. Stash is not that tall but Ed would seem very small in his presence. I think this is why Hax burns with such envy and hatred. I don’t know if Ed feels this way or just echos Hax. I suspect a combination of the two.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  56. Ed – I would certainly say that anyone who is offended has a right to ask for an apology themselves, and I admit to holding a slightly skeptical view of apology requests from third parties.

    But there are limits to that. I don’t think it’s true that per se that someone who doesn’t ask for an apology isn’t offended and doesn’t want one; and certainly I feel perfectly justified in demanding that people apologize to my husband, or my close friends, when I feel they have been wronged and they (for whatever reason) do not wish to pursue the issue.

    Moreover, I think that I have a responsibility to apologize when I have transgressed even if no apology is requested.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  57. Oh, and Ed? Thanks for the compliments.

    At least I’m not you.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  58. The last bit, aphrael, demonstrates why you have honor.

    Eric Blair (55f2d9)

  59. “Eric Cantor’s attendance of a freakin’ Britney Spear’s concert rather than watching the Prez’s presser.”

    tinb – I think it’s freakin’ hilarious that the left is upset that Cantor was watching another celebrity’s concert instead of the celebrity in chief’s presser. BFD!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  60. Machinist – Edpa does occasionally come up with his own smears, but they are usually based on innaccurate talking points he read from some left-kult blog.

    Actually I read books. I don’t even go to HuffPo or Media Matters as often as I come here. I think it is important to give myself a nice dose of “Wow, people actually think that that’s true!?”, and I get more than enough of that here.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  61. Comment by aphrael — 3/26/2009 @ 11:57 am

    Duly noted. I didn’t realize that saying something as simple as “I think it is wrong to kill an innocent person” requires an apology. I fully stand by that statement.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  62. timb,
    I’ve also told Stash when I felt he owed an apology to someone, though I’ve never felt one was due to me. I’m equally arrogant to all sides. I explained that I do not worry about an apology to myself as I do not see any harm in what was said about me. I do not care what he thinks of me and I am content to let others here make their own decision based on what they see.

    Stash is a better man than I am and has done ever so much more for our country. That is why it offends me to see less honorable men smear him because they “hold there manhoods cheap” while in his presence and resent it.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  63. Seriously, though, you’re missing a real opportunity to get even more apologies! Make Ed and Hax apologize for just disagreeing with you on other stuff too: like voting for Obama, taxes or their failure to recognize the importance of your 1850’s antebellum sense of what honor means.

    Oh timb… nail on the head buddy. These people have an extremely antiquated sense of honor.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  64. “These people have an extremely antiquated sense of honor.

    Comment by Ed from PA — 3/26/2009 @ 12:06 pm ”

    Given what you have shown us of your sense of honor I consider that a compliment. Thank you.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  65. Ohhhh slam. You dissed me. I demand an apology.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  66. I DON’T respect you.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  67. like voting for Obama

    I won’t apologize for voting for then-Senator Obama; it was the right choice among the choices I had available.

    I have, however, apologized for voting for Ralph Nader. 🙂 And I’ve come to the conclusion that I should apologize for voting for the recall of then-Governor Davis; I thought it would improve things, and I was wrong.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  68. Weird. The man who is first in line to demand an apology for someone who is not present is also the quickest to deny an apology to someone else. Gandhi would be so proud.

    His quote wasn’t “demand the kind of change you want to see in the world, then skimp out on it yourself like a total douchebag.” Gandhi wouldn’t like you.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  69. Ed from PA,

    I’ve explained that quote so many times it has gotten sickening. The detainees we’re talking about are not innocent. They are fighters, planners, logistical support, etc… for terrorism. Some of them may not have been fighting directly against the United States and just been picked up while training in places where our enemies were training, but they’re still terrorists.

    That’s why the accusation that I’m a sociopath just looking for a way to kill some Muslims is infuriating. I didn’t make the threats, they did. I didn’t say that I would immediately attack anyone who reminded me of a terrorist, just one that I knew was a terrorist. If a former detainee came to my street, and that’s what we’re talking about because I am rarely more than a couple of miles from home anymore, it’s not unreasonable to assume that’s beyond the realm of coincidence. They’re there to make good on their threats. However, the fact is that coincidences happen, and in the extremely unlikely event that I was not being targeted the fact remains that they made the threats and those would be the consequences. That’s why I could live with it (please notice that is different than not feeling bad, enjoying it, whatever… just that I could live with it.)

    If your new neighbor started coming over to your house every day, yelling at your kids that he hated them, started carrying a baseball bat saying that one day he was going to bash in some skulls of people he hated, then escalated even further with intimidating behaviors, would you ignore that? Or anticipate that one day he might cross the line and try to hurt you and your family? If he brings out a gun, yelling at the top of his voice while running towards your front door, are you going to assume he just won the gun in a raffle and is excited enough to bury the hatchet and wants to tell you about it? Or are you going to take whatever steps you can to protect yourself and your family based on his previous threats and behavior? Finally, if it turns out he did win a raffle and picked that day to bury the hatchet with you, could you live with being mistaken about his reasons for approaching you and protecting yourself?

    I’m tired of asking for apologies when I’ve been taken out of context and smeared, I’m not a grievance-monger (or try not to be). Besides, as shown by Hax, an apology by itself doesn’t mean anything. He wasn’t sincere and proved it. He has now consistently misrepresented that quote, injecting his interpretation of “innocent” and piling-on with conjecture, innuendo, and conclusions that no reasonable person would make, just because he wants to tear me down. He resents being forced to apologize (by Patterico, I didn’t ask for it) because he is never wrong and should not have had to do it. I have been very clear that I don’t want Hax around, but I haven’t asked for him to be banned. I want it, because I think he deserves it, but I haven’t asked for it. I left him completely alone and he restarted this bullshit, out of the blue. Patterico apparently sees some value in Hax being here and I trust Patterico, even though I don’t understand. I don’t have to though… Patterico is an honorable and good man, so respecting his decision is easy for me. Who knows? Maybe he’s trying to reform Hax (by necessity, that would be a long-term strategy). Whatever the reason, I still despise Hax for what he has said and done here but will tolerate his presence because Patterico has decided that Hax can stay.

    Hax, keep your word… begone. (If Hax leaves on his own as he promised, that would be ok too though. Hey, I didn’t say I was perfect.)

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  70. Respect is something that must be earned, EfP, and you have proven that you deserve no respect. It’s that passe honor thing.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  71. That took a while and I missed a lot. How about dropping it and getting back on topic? Ed from PA, timb, Hax, and the others are going to do what they want. Letting them thread-jack in my name is not good no matter how satisfying it is to call them out on their BS.

    Hax, keep your word… begone.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  72. Gandhi wouldn’t like you.

    Edpa – Ghandi drank his own piss. Do you do that to Edpa?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  73. too

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  74. Welcome Stash. You have been deified close to the level of Jesus around here (and, of course, wayyyy below Obama… am I right guys? I sure do worship Obama). If I were you I almost would have stayed gone or made up a new name so I could reap all the accolades that were being thrown upon me.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  75. On reflection I should not have brought up Hax’s name as he is restricted in responding. My bad. In future I will take Stash’s advice and shun him until he shows he is fit to talk with the adults. I will still feel free to dispute misinformation he posts without addressing him.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  76. When I owe Ed an apology I will certainly give it, but any disrespect I accord him is well earned.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  77. Stash, as you wish, Sir.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  78. {long response to Ed from PA deleted after realizing it was another thread-jack}

    The problem with the GOP plan (as has been mentioned) is that I don’t trust them to follow through on it. They talk a good game, but fall prey to the same out-of-control spending that the Dems have been doing by policy. When they show they’ll walk the walk, I’ll be more inclined to believe the talk.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  79. I have seen too many left-leaning commentators on here snubbed on their apology requests,

    Prove it – show your work. But you never do, do you? Come on, be an actual person and do less than 2 minutes of research – given this sweeping and all – encompassing statement, it should take even less time than that to provide numerous examples at will.

    Come on, you keep tossing out generalizations but never provide any specifics. Get on with it, or get out of here.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  80. Does Ed ever NOT thread-jack? Does he ever comment about the OP?

    Even the thread-jacks are deliberately misleading. It’s extremely likely that the financial markets will be higher by election season 2012, of course, but EdPA implies that any such increase will be rightly credited to The One. Ridiculous; as Jim Treacher snarked (paraphrasing), hey, Obama’s already created or saved about 8000 points on the Dow!

    Nothing but a trollpest. Suffice it to say that Patrick has a much greater hesitation to use the ban-hammer than I ever would have.

    Mitch (890cbf)

  81. Jeepers, just ignore the troll.

    Ed from PA just comes here to show off his smarts. The only exchange he’s interested in is you telling him how smart he is, walking in here with the best of Media Matters and Kos talking points.

    EBJ (2fd7f7)

  82. “The problem with the GOP plan (as has been mentioned) is that I don’t trust them to follow through on it”

    Rightly so. I can’t help thinking that they’re pretty much all liars and thiefs. Ours less so than theirs but liars and thiefs just the same.

    EBJ (2fd7f7)

  83. Some no doubt deserve that designation, but Ryan and Kyl are excellent representatives from the GOP, and also happen to be quite intelligent. They come across as sober, normal and friendly on the Sunday talk shows – Ryan in particular has got the smarts when it comes to economics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxE7mWXQwOA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epowerlineblog%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

    Dmac (49b16c)

  84. I should have added Senator Gregg to that list – he basically shat all over Obama’s budget plan last week, and made a strong case for those opinions.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  85. I think my ‘liars and thiefs’ (thieves, d’oh) comment wasn’t quite what I had in mind. It was more about the nature of the process: for 10 principled stands how many un-principled stands are taken by politicians? I say even one is too much. Most righties hated Bush’s immigration reform efforts. No surprise, though, as this position is more naturally a Democratic one. Yet the Dems all lined up against Bush.

    There will be similar stances taken by Republicans in the coming years, though the stimulus is obviously not a ‘natural’ Republican position so doesn’t qualify. No bloodier than making bologna in the Madison, WI Oscar Mayer plant but an honorable process (as currently practiced)? Not in my book.

    EBJ (2fd7f7)

  86. I know exactly where that plant is, EBJ – used to call on their headquarters for advertising back in the day. Best time I ever had there was when the client allowed me a walk – through of one of their two Weinermobiles; awesome. The samples weren’t too bad, either.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  87. So… No one’s actually interested in the details?

    RTO Trainer (b0723e)

  88. Sadly, I can only manage to grasp the details of the state budget ballot initiatives; taking the time to analyze competing budget plans is a luxury I can’t afford myself.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  89. Why should anyone hear what you have to say when you’ve amply demonstrated you won’t stand behind your boys?

    I pledge allegiance to the Republican Party, no matter what, even if it makes me a craven fascist what steals peoples monies cause they sawed some peoples on MSNBC that looked angry and they gotted scared. Fascism is okay sometimes cause it’s important to send a message. About how you better not make MSNBC mad or we’ll steal your monies.

    happyfeet (ba8a9d)

  90. “Why should anyone hear what you have to say when you’ve amply demonstrated you won’t stand behind your boys?”

    feets – I couldn’t originally understand that comment. Now looking back I see Brad S. directed it at Mr. J. Cricket who was acting all jumpy like and evasive, so it has become more clear. Mr. J. Cricket is being a little mendoucheous here I think.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  91. What I am curious about is, will the Republicans debate and re-organize themselves according to their traditional principles or will some of them form a new party, maybe with some newer names are faces and try to bring in “independant” voters?

    EdWood (144f53)

  92. HawHawEd – I suggest you email Rush Limbaugh for your answers since you guys claim he’s the head of the party.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  93. “you guys claim he’s the head of the party”

    BigD #94 Um… Huh?

    No, really. I have heard plenty of people claim they have dropped out of the Republican party or are angry at last few years of borrow and spend. I’m just curious if anyone thinks a third party may form.

    EdWood (0db818)

  94. EdWood,

    I don’t think we’ll see a viable third party anytime soon, but I would like to see the GOP re-organize according to their traditional principles… and actually follow them instead of the polls. If there is a split into a new party, both it and the GOP will be decades away from having an impact I think.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  95. And I’m one of those who dropped out of the Republican Party. It’s just political reality that we’re used to a two-party system and it would take a long time to overcome that, especially considering that the laws are written to give the Dems and the GOP an enormous advantage over any third party.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  96. Stashiu3
    I have been told that we are pretty much locked into a 2 party system but (and I am guessing the laws were vastly different then) it only took a single decade for the Republicans to take it all away from the Whigs. It took a very large issue to cause people to break with the parties of the day and although I wouldn’t equate the current economic mess etc. with the kind of political turmoil that came with fighting over the abolition of slavery, I wonder if the current situation is a large enough event to cause a rift within the current Republican party and the rapid ascent of a new party of practical minded public servants.
    Obama won by campaigning on “change” and by saying that he wanted to be bipartisan. He may have had plenty of people making negative ads on his behalf but his campaign itself aired very few attack ads (well, that I was aware of anyway). I wonder if a new party (or even a reconstituted Republican party) with a utilitarian approach to its politics (starting with Mr. Levy’s ideas linked in a different thread) might not be able to come up with a group of “change with teeth” candidates.

    EdWood (11243a)

  97. EdWood,

    I’d love to see some political reform, but as I understand it, the campaign-finance laws as written are hugely supportive of the two-party system. Both parties are to blame for this, and the high costs of running a campaign. A third-party candidate is at a huge disadvantage financially. Too much so to be effective right now.

    I don’t have an answer for the GOP. They (IMO) relied on the old boy system and ran McCain because it was “his turn”. I have no interest in returning to them until they follow their principles instead of just talk about them and do business as usual. I’ll vote each position on the candidate’s merits and guess I’ll skip the primaries. To the hardcore political junkies on both sides that will make me a traitor… oh well.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  98. Stashiu3
    I think a lot of people out there agree with you.

    EdWood (2103e6)

  99. Here is what Sarah Palin said of McCains campaign.

    So I’m looking around for somebody to pray with, I just need maybe a little help, maybe a little extra,” she said of the moments before the debate. “And the McCain campaign, love ‘em, you know, they’re a lot of people around me, but nobody I could find that I wanted to hold hands with and pray.”

    Right Sarah todays Republicans dont want to Pray.. they only want to PREY..

    Time for a new party ..that really does believe in limited government and not just a feed-the -rich and start-wars-both-cultural-and-otherwise group of negative hypocrites.

    VietnamEraVet (04b9ee)

  100. Someone ran out of their meds again …

    JD (99248c)

  101. Both parties are to blame for this, and the high costs of running a campaign. A third-party candidate is at a huge disadvantage financially.

    It’s unfortunate that our country didn’t adopt the British model of holding elections within a six – month time period. It severely negates a candidate’s financial largesse, and forces all contenders to get to the heart of the electorate’s concerns quickly. I also wish we had a facsimile of the infamous Q & A sessions between the Prime Minister and Parliament – still love watching those on C – Span, and they would reveal our President for the gaffe – prone guy he already is suspected of being.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  102. “I also wish we had a facsimile of the infamous Q & A sessions between the Prime Minister and Parliament”

    That part of the British political process should definitely be adopted here. You get to hear the politicians involved in policy decisions question those decisions and justify those decisions all at the same time, in one place, with no media filter to cut out the stumbles or creatively reword anything.

    EdWood (c2268a)

  103. “Question Period”…
    One of the distinctions between the Parliamentary System used by GB, and the tri-partite form under the Constitution, is that the Executive in our system is not part of the Legislature, and if he/she holds a seat there when elected to the Presidency, must resign; whereas, in the Parliamentary form, the PM is both the CEO of Govenment, and is a MP.
    I think that historically, our Presidents have resisted any suggestion of a “Question Period” as a violation of the Separation of Powers concept in the Constitution. And, there has been Legislative resistence to the concept of allowing the Executive free access to the Chambers.

    AD - RtR/OS (0053b8)

  104. Vev,

    Did you just cut&paste the comment from Hax? No source, no link, no context, nothing. I know the BDS is strong with you, but can we expect at least one rational comment from you this year? Rather than take potshots at prior administrations or campaigns that lost, how about giving us something to work with? kthxbye.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  105. Two years or more of Presidential Campaigning is ridiculous. That’s what sunk Thompson more than anything else. A much-needed election reform is some way to avoid the perpetual campaigns we’re seeing now. President Obama has essentially started his campaign for 2012 already.

    It’s no wonder he has difficulty filling administration positions or implementing (even defining) policies… everything is subject to modification based on the newest polls. The AIG bonuses that were specifically included in the bailout and almost immediately targeted for outrage, the various bailouts themselves which are rushed through and signed without even being read, the idea to bring Guantanamo detainees to the U.S. in such a herky-jerky fashion… now, they’re apparently going to be subsidized (just saw this at Ace’s) with tax dollars. If a big enough objection arises to something, they go back to the previous position as if it had already been settled and say something like, “Ok, we won’t support them with tax dollars after we bring them here.”, then do it anyway. It’s been noted here before, but no administration position is permanent policy anymore… everything has an expiration date.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  106. HawHawEd – What do you see as the prospects of the lunatic fringe barking moonbat drooling idiot Soros/Moore Code Stinko truther side of the left, approx. 39% but very vocal and well-funded, bteaking off and starting their own party or committing mass suicide while waiting for their Mothership to pick them up for the voyage back to their home planet?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  107. Comment by daleyrocks — 3/27/2009 @ 11:17 am

    I’m sure they probably considered it daleyrocks. I wish they had for the same reasons I hope the GOP doesn’t and makes substantive reforms instead. Conservatives would have done much better the last two elections if they had been splintered. Now, the far-left doesn’t really need to split off, although the batfrisch crazy element is probably still considering it because they don’t think President Obama is going far enough.

    I have to say that I really enjoy what seems to be a new tone of commenting from EdWood (also timb and Foo Bar from the other thread). When the hostile comments are replaced with good-faith ones (even, or perhaps especially, those I don’t completely agree with) it’s better for everyone. I hope it continues.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  108. Stashiu3 – I believe Ed knows by now that when he asks a ridiculous question I’m going to follow up with a ridiculous question right back. I wasn’t directing any ad hom at Ed. I too enjoy the increased civility. I was just having some fun.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  109. I didn’t take it that way daleyrocks, sorry if I gave that impression. I saw the tongue-in-cheek and hope EdWood did as well.

    Nuttin’ but love for ya my friend. 🙂

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  110. If you want to be taken seriously, you need your own solution. If your solution is a true return to smaller government and personal responsibility, great. But if your solution is more of the same, stick to fighting the other guy’s solution.

    Does this make sense to anyone? Especially that last part.

    Old Gary (863676)

  111. Stashiu3 – It’s all good. I’m not even sure the Whine-O-Meter is still pegged over at Protein Wisdom. I’ll cruise by later, maybe.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  112. Glad you had fun bigD but Stashiu3s comments were more interesting because they passed on actual information. Actually your comment 108 did too albeit in a cryptic way. I just can’t tell if you are more annoyed at the “conservative” lunatic fringe, the “liberal” lunatic fringe or both in roughly equal proportion.

    EdWood (c2268a)

  113. EdWood – I just didn’t feel like taking the time to answer that Stashiu3 did. The issues interest me more than party dynamics.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  114. Stash – You give FUBAR and timmah waaaaaaaaay too much credit.

    JD (454fb4)

  115. Hey JD!

    I’m not sure if the last few days of nonsense by Hax has caused some to rethink their tone, but the last several comments by timb and Foo Bar haven’t had that sneering contempt we’ve come to expect and that should be acknowledged. I don’t agree with Foo Bar’s conclusions on the other thread, but he’s supporting his position and refraining from hateful comments. I can listen respectfully to that and argue my own positions… we may not ever reach agreement, but I’m okay with that.

    We keep saying we want civil discourse, so when people make the effort to comment honestly it’s sometimes good to return the effort, even when that person hasn’t really made up for a lot of dishonest comments in the past. If they go back to commenting like asshats, I’ll be right there with you to call them on it. It would be much nicer to have some more intelligent liberals making honest comments here… timb and Foo Bar would be great (IMO) because they truly believe most of what they say. Believe it or not, I actually like hearing timb especially. If he can keep it up, he might have some influence here. If he can’t, we’ll always be able to go back to calling him an asshat and dismissing his every point as worthless. He’s built a bit of credibility (at least with me), now he can continue and maybe gain some respect here or he can go back to making dishonest and distorted comments, forfeiting any hope of being taken seriously. His choice. Of course, YMMV. 😉

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  116. You are a bigger person than I, Stashiu. 😉

    JD (454fb4)

  117. Well, at least Ed from PA is staying away (rather than apologize). But then, I am a myopic, arrogant, and ignorant person who cares about tone and civility.

    The thing is, if Left of center posters are polite and do not insult, they should not receive insults. And we all would benefit from learning different points of view. Maybe minds will not be changed, but we will work together more effectively.

    And to be honest, I suspect some challenges are ahead of us, and we will need to work together without the usual histrionics.

    So yes, better tone means better discussions.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  118. It’s been a couple days now, Repubs, so where’s the beef?

    Patricia (2183bb)

  119. I got your beef.

    happyfeet (ba8a9d)

  120. not really I just said that

    happyfeet (ba8a9d)

  121. Eric Blair #119 “And to be honest, I suspect some challenges are ahead of us, and we will need to work together without the usual histrionics.”

    Exactly.

    EdWood (60c4cf)

  122. EdWood – That was April Fools a few dats early, right?

    /sarc

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  123. Wealfare for the wealthy, and tax cuts for corporate America did work before in creating jobs….It created all kinds of jobs overseas.

    Terry (81c113)


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