Patterico's Pontifications

3/2/2009

Clinton: That Vaunted Diplomacy Ain’t Gonna Keep Iran from Getting the Bomb

Filed under: General,International,Obama — Patterico @ 10:01 pm



Los Angeles Times:

The Obama administration has already concluded that a diplomatic overture to Iran, one of the central promises of the president’s election campaign, is unlikely to persuade Tehran to give up its nuclear ambitions.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told the foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates in a private meeting Monday that it is “very doubtful” a U.S. approach will persuade Iran to relent, said a senior State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity under customary diplomatic rules.

You don’t say.

What was your first clue?

So, what does that leave?

a) War.

b) Let ’em have the bomb.

c) Some other naive gesture that, like diplomacy, won’t do anything.

d) Let Israel handle it.

e) Your idea here.

In addition to your ideas, vote on which of the above approaches you think Obama will pursue.

135 Responses to “Clinton: That Vaunted Diplomacy Ain’t Gonna Keep Iran from Getting the Bomb”

  1. I have no idea.
    Whatever he does, however, will be blamed on President Bush.

    tyree (926e0a)

  2. Ooh! Oooh! I know Mistah Kottah!

    c) naive, meaningless and powerless gesture

    steve miller (4bda12)

  3. Is it too early to say “I hope he fails” yet?

    Meaning, I hope Bambi’s plans to soothe Iran fail & he understands how to get tough with a rogue nation.

    steve miller (4bda12)

  4. “Clinton: That Vaunted Diplomacy Ain’t Gonna Keep Iran from Getting the Bomb”

    SHOCKA!!!!!!!!!

    And here Hax, old boy, told everybody yesterday that Obama was going to use Russia and China to pressure Iran into not pursuing the bomb with his vaunted new “soft power” diplomacy “magic negro” skilz.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  5. The correct is B.

    We won’t stop them, and Israel probably can’t.

    Paul S. (58a77a)

  6. From NYT Someone else isn’t feeling that confident either…

    “President Obama sent a secret letter to Russia’s president last month suggesting that he would back off deploying a new missile defense system in Eastern Europe if Moscow would help stop Iran from developing long-range weapons, American officials said Monday.”

    I vote D. Let Israel give it a try. They have more steel and will than anyone else..

    Dana (137151)

  7. At least Israel admits it’s in an existential struggle with an enemy. Bambi thinks it’s all sweetness and light.

    Allan Drury was only 40 years too soon.

    steve miller (4bda12)

  8. Here’s another view of that scary smart Obama diplomacy, from the Russian perspective:

    http://closingvelocity.typepad.com/closing_velocity/2009/03/obama-scraps-missile-defense-for-unproven-russian-diplomacy-with-iran.html

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  9. Diplomacy is especially unlikely to succeed if the diplomats say so publicly…

    Daryl Herbert (b65640)

  10. Come Nineveh Come Tyre or Promise of Joy are Drury’s two apocalyptic novels of different paths taken by the political elite in Washington. While they are unfortunately written with a high word count in mind, they do display interesting contrasts.

    Bambi has a lot in common with Edward Jason.

    steve miller (4bda12)

  11. d) Let Israel do it.

    Then denounce Israel to appease Muslims and Europeans (Wait, aren’t those two now the same?)

    Perfect Sense (0922fa)

  12. The problem with “Let Israel do it” should be obvious. To Israel, Iran with a bomb is an almost-certain second Holocaust. The danger to them is existential and while they would retaliate decisively if nuked (contemplate 100 hydrogen bombs) there would be not enough of Israel left to matter.

    So, someday this year or next, no matter what the President decides, he’s going to get a call from Netanyahu that basically says: a) Israel and the US jointly stop these madmen conventionally or b) Israel will stop it the only way we can.

    If you think that Israel will refrain from first use, if the alternative is national destruction, you misunderstand Israel.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  13. So, I think the US positions are C, B, D, “crap”, then A in that order. And it will be Bush’s fault.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  14. Embargo; blockade; deny all shipments of food and medicine to Iran; cut off their access to shipping lanes and air corridors, seaports and airports; deny use of satellite commnications, banks and financial markets; call up the ayatollahs in the middle of the night and sing “Bess, You Is My Woman Now” to them over the phone.

    nk (502275)

  15. #14 nk: Those are all things that a rational person would consider.

    I don’t know that they would even occur to a doctrinaire Marxist who believes that it is possible to change human nature, this time.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  16. Oh, and:

    c, b, d (by default), and a in East Timor against Buddhist separatists (or some other equally unlikely to threaten our national interests venue.

    e: Pantry stocked, powder dry.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  17. vitrification

    pitchforksntorches (12026e)

  18. Option C is all Obama has the stomach for. He will have a revelation, shared by the Media, about the benign nature of the Iranian government.

    Then he will pull our missile defenses out of Eastern Europe as their economies collapse and drag down Western Europe.

    I don’t see anyone trusting the United States for anything significant ever again.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  19. I agree with Amphipolis. Nobody in the world trusts us now. So I think Iran is going to go nuclear whether we like it or not, and there’s nothing we can do about it.

    Robert (12f782)

  20. Why is it that this meme that nobody trusts us persists? What have we done to make people not trust us? I could see if people disagreed with us, but a lack of trust?

    I blame Bush. And, Kyoto.

    JD (b527d1)

  21. Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran,..
    That’s what we need to do.
    Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran,
    That’s what he needs to do,..
    Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran,.
    Those guys just wont play nice.
    Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran,
    No point being Mr Nice…

    Emperor7 (0c8c2c)

  22. JD, because our new president already has a track record of throwing his friends under the bus when they become inconvenient.

    LarryD (feb78b)

  23. Larry – I get that. But so far he has done nothing on the international stage to merit the idea that people no longer trust us, nor did President Bush, for that matter. And quite to the contrary, the Left crowed for years about how the Left in general, and Baracky in particular, would bring back the trust of the international community.

    JD (4fe80d)

  24. What have we done to make people not trust us?
    Comment by JD — 3/3/2009 @ 7:30 am

    Try Iraq and weapons of mass destruction that were not found. Add torture and Gitmo to it and it becomes clearer. I think concerning torture, we need to do what is necessary to protect American lives. I don’t think we should apologize for our methods or make pledges we can’t keep.

    Emperor7 (0c8c2c)

  25. Why is it that this meme that nobody trusts us persists?

    Because we elected Mayor Daley’s pet monkey for President-Elect?

    nk (502275)

  26. JD – Read the link at 8. Obama is already throwing our Eastern European friends under the bus behind their backs and they are not happy.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  27. Bullshit, lovie. Pure unadulterated bullshit. Name me one single solitary intelligence agency prior to the war that did not arrive at the same conclusions as our intelligence community. The underlying findings of the intelligence community were not in dispute, even by the American Leftists. The only dispute was about how to proceed. But keep on trying to rewrite history.

    JD (4fe80d)

  28. Oops, daleyrocks. Missed that. Apparently there is a reason for them not to trust Baracky. Shocka.

    JD (4fe80d)

  29. Iran should have the right to defend itself from Israel’s 200+ Neuclear weapons. Its the only pro-democratic, liberal country in the whole region of ME. Israel can wipe out the whole ME in minutes and we dont talk about that.

    robin (184997)

  30. Yes, Robin. Israel is an aggressor nation, whose stated intentions are to wipe Iran off the map.

    JD (4fe80d)

  31. WE can wipe out the entire ME in minutes, and we don’t talk about that either.
    Care to guess why?

    The answer is “C”, because he is feckless, and doesn’t have a clue as to how geo-politik really works.
    And afterwards, no nation anywhere will ever again believe anything the United States says.

    The Progressives will attain the isolationism they covet, but only because we will be driven from the rest of the world back into our bankrupt enclave.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  32. robin, are you claiming that Iran is the only pro-democratic liberal country in the Middle East?

    I hope that’s satire because (1) Iran is not pro-democratic in reality given how the ruling mullahs prohibit unacceptable candidates from running for office by the thousands, (2) Iran is not “liberal” and (3) that Iran is not in the Middle East…

    SPQR (72771e)

  33. Robin is satire – unless Snacks Nabisco has yet another disguise.

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  34. More cluelessness by the Obama administration as their overtures to Russia regarding missile defense are laughed away.

    The Empty Suit Diplomacy technique seems to be failing quickly.

    SPQR (72771e)

  35. Israel can wipe out the whole ME in minutes and we dont talk about that.

    Neither does Israel. You know what else we don’t talk about? The Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

    Pablo (99243e)

  36. 1. War is not optional unless (until?) forced on us. We’re war weary, Obama’s budget is already waaay overboard, and Iran is no Iraq. The war to defeat Iraq took just weeks, it’s the sectarian in-fighting which has been troublesome. Iran is bigger, better armed, better trained.

    2. Let ’em keep it. My bet that this is Obama’s selection, along with enough noise to disguise it. Abysmal selection (see #1 above).

    3. Diplomatic-like gestures. See the “noise” comment of #2.

    4. Let Israel do it. Obama, Powers, et al won’t support Israel’s obvious pre-emptive self-defense. Not sure if they go it alone. Big logistical problems.

    5. Other: time machine, c.750 AD. Have a talk with a certain tribe around the Mecca area. “Hey, guys, that fella over there has some plans that you may not like. You might wanna deal with him now…” Christianity flourishes uninhibited throughout the region, unicorns dance under rainbows, etc, etc.

    neocon_1 (d098d0)

  37. Some other naive gesture.

    PatAZ (9d1bb3)

  38. Does anyone believe that Israel would use any nukes unless it faced massive destruction, perhaps annihilation? Does anyone believe that Iran will not use nukes as a first strike against Israel? That’s the difference. One is defensive weapon of last resort, the other a means of implementing policy.

    A homeowner who keeps a gun safely out of site but within reach is not seen as a threat to anyone. A bully building a gun all the while stating that his neighbor should be wiped off the earth should be scrutinized. Violently, if necessary.

    neocon_1 (d098d0)

  39. I think Israel could handle it quite nicely.

    PatAZ (who is not Jewish) (9d1bb3)

  40. What Obama will do is dither. Any action has political danger and politically he’s a coward. He’ll do nothing, talk a lot and hope for the best. Hillary will be there trying to provoke him into ignoring her advice so she can resign in a huff over matters of “principle” and go back to New York to run for Governor. he knows Obama is going to fold like a house of cards and wants to be ready to take the nomination away from him in ’12.

    Obama makes Jimmy Carter look like a leader.

    Ken Hahn (2a3bf2)

  41. The U.S. does end at its borders, you know.
    Maybe Ron Paul is right.
    What if the United States is just a country among many, and it really doesn’t have the land mass of the whole earth..

    Robert (12f782)

  42. She, darn it.

    Ken Hahn (2a3bf2)

  43. The government of Iran could be collapsed without ever having to set foot on Iranian territory.
    An embargo of all petroleum products into and out of Iran, the destruction of their limited refinery capacity, and the destruction of all oil pipe-lines into and out of the country, and their economy will gring to a halt, and the government will be overthrown.
    Or, we can wait until they actually do attack Israel, and watch the entire are become engulfed in flames.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  44. What gives a country the right to have nuclear weapons and denies it to another country? Fair international law?

    So far the only country that has attacked another with nukes is the U.S.

    Maybe we all should support Obama. Maybe peace is better than war and unilateral threats and bullying the rest of the world.

    I think Carl Sagan is right: The Earth is one organism, and an organism at war with itself is doomed.

    Robert (12f782)

  45. #41 Ken Hahn:

    She, darn it.

    I’ve been afflicted with typos all day, but that was a Freudian slip.

    No lace, either.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  46. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  47. What gives a country the right to have nuclear weapons and denies it to another country?

    A concept called “just rule,” where the the word just is taken as meaning in a sense of justice.

    #45 steve miller: Hey, have ’em sign me up too!

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  48. Robert – Maybe if your Aunt had nuts she would be your Uncle.

    JD (b527d1)

  49. No religion should claim to possess the only true god and impose it to anybody. Attacking muslim countries sounds like a medieval crusade. No government should develop new nukes, but no government should say: “Democratize or I’ll nuke you!”

    Robert (12f782)

  50. Boy, talk about having zero information before speaking. Robert, really, learn about the facts of history, such as the genocidal rhetoric frothing forth from Iran.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  51. Who, exactly, is saying that, Robert? How do you feel about Ahmadinnerjacket’s stated goal of removing Israel from the map?

    JD (b527d1)

  52. I think I can channel Robert’s thinking…

    Were you a lifetime GOP voter, too, Robert, until George Bush soured you & now you’re an enthusiastic Bambi voter?

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  53. Yes, JD you think and speak in terms of nuts and tough talk, which is the cowards’ hiding place. You seem unanable to formulate and type a complete thought.
    However oh dictator, I defend the right for you to say and insult all you fancy in your attempt to heal your wounded femminoid narcisism.

    Perhaps you think that my beliefs will change because of your… argument?

    Robert (12f782)

  54. Steve you type like a pussy cat. Can you produce an idea??

    Robert (12f782)

  55. Please define unananable

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  56. Those are my beliefs and too bad if they hurt your feelings. I stand on them, so what are you going to do about it. Grind your teeth all you want. Who are you anyway! I exercise my right to freedom of speech, which you have given up in exchange for security, and anybody who gives up a little freedom in exchange of security, deserves to have neither. So, you don’t like it? So?

    Robert (12f782)

  57. So, what if you don’t like it?

    Robert (12f782)

  58. Easy there, Robert, or everyone will know your total disregard for facts. And your “nanny nanny boo boo” bit doesn’t help your cause, either.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  59. Well, Robert, you will be held up to ridicule for the pompous, ill-informed fool that you are.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  60. So what if you cannot realize that by nuking any, any country in the world we would destroy ourselves. You’ve had too much junk food and junk drink in your system, to realize.

    Robert (12f782)

  61. War.

    Because the Big O will have run us to ruin like FDR, he’ll be needing a distraction. a VERY BIG distraction.

    And what could be bigger? Well, maybe nuking Russia, but Putin’s our friend, right??

    Tex Lovera (456ded)

  62. Can anybody please, please, produce a real coherent thought here?

    At least a complete idea? Anybody please?

    If not I’m out of here. This is too boring.

    Robert (12f782)

  63. Who, exactly, is saying that, Robert? How do you feel about Ahmadinnerjacket’s stated goal of removing Israel from the map? What is incomplete about either of those thoughts?

    Are your doctors aware that you are on the computer?

    JD (b527d1)

  64. Ah, that’s it, we’re all suffering from Dan White Syndrome.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  65. Comment by Robert — 3/3/2009 @ 11:48 am
    “I work here is done.”

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  66. We have achieved peace in our time.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  67. Robert lamenting the lack of coherent thought is rich, considering he is engaged in vigorous … debate … with the voices in his head.

    JD (b527d1)

  68. Robert, Robert, Robert.

    No one is forcing you to think poorly. You’re doing that all by yourself.

    Now put down the Jim Beam.

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  69. We nuked Japan but for some reason, the US was not destroyed.

    So much for that logic, Robert.

    SPQR (72771e)

  70. “Bye, Bob.” That is a complete thought, and about as much as I care to offer you.

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  71. No religion should claim to possess the only true god

    Personally, I wouldn’t think a religion to be worth much if it didn’t make such a claim…but hey, that might just be me.

    Imposition is a different matter.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  72. There’s a religion I heard of that imposes itself on everyone, on pain of death.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  73. Can anybody please, please, produce a real coherent thought here?

    Immediately followed by this “coherency” –

    Those are my beliefs and too bad if they hurt your feelings. I stand on them, so what are you going to do about it.

    And you are edumacated! Nice grammar there, Poindexter. Ever had to diagram a sentence in the short – bus school you attended (attending)?

    You seem unanable to formulate and type a complete thought.

    Too funny – you cannot make this stuff up, I’d wager.

    Followed by:

    So, you don’t like it? So?

    Followed immediately again by:

    So, what if you don’t like it?

    Awesome debating skillz you got there – truly, you have put the rest of us to shame.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  74. This is too boring.

    Oh, thank … er, hang on a sec while I figger out which one…

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  75. What gives a country the right to have nuclear weapons and denies it to another country? Fair international law?

    The Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

    I exercise my right to freedom of speech, which you have given up in exchange for security, and anybody who gives up a little freedom in exchange of security, deserves to have neither.

    I think I lost half a dozen IQ points just reading that sentence.

    Pablo (99243e)

  76. Robert sounds a lot like the Loose Change morons – same type of logical skills on display, replete with nursery school retorts.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  77. #73 Dmac, quoting an earlier post:

    Those are my beliefs and too bad if they hurt your feelings. I stand on them,

    That part just cracke me up…I mean, what’s he got? Some type of holy book on a soap box?

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  78. Who, exactly, has espoused the positions you are “arguing” against here, Robert?

    JD (b527d1)

  79. Comment by Dmac — 3/3/2009 @ 11:59 am
    Truly! I am so ashamed I am compelled to go out and add some tombstones to the voter registration roles for ACORN.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  80. Yeesh. Typo day. Glad it doesn’t hapen evrdayy.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  81. All your cheezeburgers are belong to me.

    I can haz cheezeburgers.

    I work here is done.

    I do not need to read a book to know what it says.

    JD (b527d1)

  82. Comment by JD — 3/3/2009 @ 12:06 pm
    You read?
    Who knew?

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  83. How does one “speak in terms of nuts” ?

    JD (b527d1)

  84. …and fire doesn’t melt steel!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  85. Robert is just a few acorns short of a Winter’s stockpile.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  86. Ha,ha,ha,ha. No, no. Don’t get confused. The difference between you and me is that you believe America’s best president has been George Bush, while I believe it has been Abraham Lincoln.
    How could we ever agree?? We’re different species. Don’t get so mad though, you’ll get a heart attack or something. Perhaps you feel that all your insults yell through my computer screen…

    Robert (12f782)

  87. Destroying is easy. Building is difficult.
    Destroying and making war is the privilege of cowards. Working for peace is reserved only for the brave.

    But you confuse bravery with paranoia.

    Robert (12f782)

  88. Sorry I gotta go again. Don’t mean to but I work unlike you unemployed. Besides this really is too boring. May you achieve the world you dream of: nukes, kick ass, invation, nuking Iran, Russia, Korea, Iraq, Afganistan.

    I believe in Abraham Lincoln, and yes, right now I choose to support and believe in Obama. I believe he believes in peace. But it is my choice. Can’t you deal with that? Once again it is called FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND BELIEF. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

    Bye.

    Robert (12f782)

  89. Robert professes a belief in the suspension of individual rights, and the imposition of total-war.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  90. Robert, do learn about logical fallacies, especially the strawman fallacy.

    SPQR (72771e)

  91. Wow, someone who believes in the First Amendment! We never get any of those people around here in the bastion of anti-fairness-doctrine. And, yes, we want to nuke the world. That’s why Ronnie Ray-gun nuked those commie bastiches. And we’re the most imperialistic nation in the universe. That’s why Cuba became our 57th state during Bush41.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  92. Robert – Again I ask of you (I know, it is futile), who has espoused the positions you are arguing against?

    JD (b527d1)

  93. JD, he doesn’t have the patients to eggzamine the evidence. He is blogging on compenny time. He’ll be bake later.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  94. Oh, no doubt he is baked, John.

    Clean-up on Aisle Robert! Pronto!

    JD (b527d1)

  95. Robert I cannot believe you really think like that. Iran is a terrorist regime who would destroy us if it had the chance, same goes for North Korea.

    What kind of stupid brains do you have??

    Are we supposed to just wait around untill Iran gets a nuke?????

    Just shut up and log out you imbecile prick.

    LinW (12f782)

  96. Robert why don’t you die. I really wish you were dead for all that you think and have written.

    [Normally I’d delete this, but since you’re posting from Robert’s IP address, I’ll leave it up for amusement’s sake. — P]

    LinW (Who is posting from Robert's IP address -- P) (12f782)

  97. Just shut up little Bobby Robert or whatever just shut the hell up and learn that you is the dummiest jerk I have read. You ain’t shit. I’d kill you if I knew where you was.

    [This was in the spam filter but I’m freeing it. It was written by the same kook posting as Robert and Lin W and Rebekka. Holy crap this person needs to get a life. Anyway, since it’s hardly a real death threat, being from one person to himself/herself, I’m publishing it for entertaininment’s sake. Dude is banned, however. — P]

    BILLYTHEKID (ALSO ROBERT! -- P) (12f782)

  98. That is not very construvtive.

    JD (b527d1)

  99. I wish Obama will fail……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….to fail. Ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  100. LinW, don’t resort to the hair-brained tactics of the left. Rather than feed your hate, feed your love for truth and mankind. Hope he learns the truth.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  101. Hope he learns the truth

    “Nothing focuses the mind like the impending application of the hangman’s noose.”

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  102. Robert why don’t you die. I really wish you were dead for all that you think and have written.

    Comment by LinW — 3/3/2009 @ 2:11 pm
    That is so stupid. You ought to be banned.

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  103. MY GOODNESS! When did we start as a nation to hate so much!

    All I read in this page is HATE and wishing to kill somebody for what he has written.
    The fact that I don’t agree with Robert doesn’t give me the right to insult him like that and hate him for writing about peace. Is this a nation of only one culture?

    This is terribly wrong.
    In the name of God, stop! please, just stop!

    [Robert/Lin W/Rebekka tried to post a violent comment as BILLY THE KID, but failed. That’s why she’s saying “all she reads” on this page is violence — he/she wrote it all, and apparently thought the BILLY THE KID comment had posted. — P]

    Rebekka (Who is also posting from Robert's IP address) (12f782)

  104. No, Rebekkka. You read one idiot hating and wishing death upon Robert. One.

    JD (b527d1)

  105. Thanks for stopping by, Rebecca.
    Don’t call us, we’ll call you.

    AD - RtR/OS (e4c8ef)

  106. Rebekkka – do you know the difference between mockery and scorn and HATE ?

    JD (b527d1)

  107. I’ll pray for you all and for world peace. The history of the world has been a sad blood act. Let’s change that.

    Bless you.

    Rebekka (12f782)

  108. JD, MOCKERY AND SCORN ARE A FORM OF HATE. AND BEFORE YOU INSULT ME ALSO I ASK YOU TO PLEASE CONSIDER THAT MOCKERY AND SCORN ARE A FORM OF HATE. REMEMBER THAT’S HOW THE JEWS WERE TREATED BY THE NAZI JUST BEFORE WORLD WAR II, MOCKERY AND SCORN.

    [AND YET I MOCK YOU BECUASE YOU ARE MOCKING AND SCORNING YOURSELF, WISHING DEATH UPON YOURSELF FROM THE SAME COMPUTER!! AHH! AHHH!!! AHHHHHHHH! — P]

    Rebekka (12f782)

  109. Rebekka, please look over this blog. Scan the commentary. You’ll find the regular conservative commenters do not wish other commenters/trolls to die. And if you noticed, more than one regular conservative commenter objected to the death comment.

    Please hang around and read more. I’m sure you’ll get a better feel here.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  110. Ummm, Rebekka, usage of capslock doesn’t get anywhere. And certain commenters are known trolls. They add nothing to the give-and-take and are regularly scorned. It isn’t hate, but outright disregard.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  111. Hey, John: cue the “Extreme Ways (Bourne’s Ultimatum)” track.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  112. Shouldn’t there be some kind of licensing before we let kids post on blogs? Just because they can reach the keyboard doesn’t mean they should be typing.

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  113. Robert, LinW, and Rebekka… how’s Rick Ellers doing these days?

    What would it take to add an IP hash to the signature?

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  114. Rebekkka – Thank you for the laugh.

    CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL TO COOL !!!!!

    JD (b527d1)

  115. JD, a gentleman and scholar, writes:
    “Name me one single solitary intelligence agency prior to the war that did not arrive at the same conclusions as our intelligence community.”

    From Rupert Murdoch’s [object]:
    “ MI6 told Tony Blair before the invasion of Iraq that a high-placed Iraqi source said that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence was passed to the US but was buried by the White House, according to a new book.’’

    From the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee [object]

    “Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Communities October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic tradecraft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence.”

    Details of how the fraud unspooled are in [object]:
    “ The CIA had overwhelming evidence that Iraq had no nuclear weapons programs during the run-up to the Iraq war. They kept that information to themselves and didn’t tell the president.’’

    What we have here is a classic case of right-wing blogosphere echo-think.

    Of course JD believes ALL intelligence agencies were convinced Iraq had WMD. How could he believe anything else, given that meme has been repeated so many times on right wing blogs and anyone who denies it is banned.

    Hax Vobiscum (4012df)

  116. But JD, you’re not responding TO THE SUBSTANCE OF HER ARGUMENT!!!1! (No worries though, the other voices in her head have it covered.)

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  117. Sorry, EB, my musack(tm) is a bit out-dated. I don’t know any Bourne music. :(

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  118. It’s music by Moby, John.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  119. Good Allah. As I have always stated, stupidity that pervasive should be visibly painful.

    JD (b527d1)

  120. […] As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton continues her Middle East trip, she has, once again, enunciated a poor policy by the Obama Administration (h/t Patterico): […]

    Common Sense Political Thought » Blog Archive » Hillary Clinton says that it is acceptable for Iran to build atomic bombs (73d96f)

  121. The history of the world has been a sad blood act.

    What kind of screed must she be reading from as she posted this?

    Dmac (49b16c)

  122. One thing that should not be missed here is that Secretary of State Clinton has just told Iran that while we might not like for Iran to build atomic weapons, it is acceptable to us nevertheless!

    Mrs Clinton said — or at least what we have from her unnamed unofficial “source” — is that we don’t expect to persuade Iran to not build an atomic weapon, but that we think by refusing to stop, we’ll gain some sort of unspecified diplomatic advantage in the Middle East. That’s what we are willing to trade the acceptance of Iranian nuclear weapons for: a diplomatic advantage.

    And she has done even more: With Benjamin Netanyahu scheduled to become the next Prime Minister of Israel, Mrs Clinton has just signaled, very publicly, that the United States would not support an Israeli strike to destroy the Iranian nuclear weapons program.

    This may, of course, be a public-consumption, plausible-deniability maneuver, and she might tell Mr Netanyahu and outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert something entirely different in private, but that seems improbable to me; the Obama Administration seems to be proceeding along a softer, more pacifist program than President Bush maintained. But I don’t see much good coming from the initial foreign policy moves of President Obama.

    The foreign policy Dana (556f76)

  123. Wow, must have been a snow day for the short bus crowd. It’s like tnj after a labotomy, but quite amusing commentary.
    BTW, I just don’t think Hillary has the proper temperment for SoS. She doesn’t strike me as someone who takes kindly to people telling her to f-off diplomatically, or otherwise.
    And Robert, I’ve never read comments like they were written in crayon—congratulatons.

    mossberg500 (392f23)

  124. […] why the tactic is being pursued with such fervor in the first place. It is here I must excerpt Patterico’s brilliant response: You don’t […]

    Obama’s recent foreign policy stumbles and Iran « Wellsy’s World (ea1fd5)

  125. Robert wrote:

    Destroying and making war is the privilege of cowards. Working for peace is reserved only for the brave.

    There is a rather famous passage from the Talmud, a teaching of Rava. A man approaches the teacher, and says that he has been ordered by the king to kill an innocent man, and that if does not, he will himself be killed. Rava replies, “Let yourself be killed, but do not kill. Is your blood any redder than his?”

    Some would say that this great and noble teaching from the Talmud is part of the reason why the Nazis were able to kill half of the Jews of Europe, were able to kill six million innocent people, few of whom resisted. You may call those who make war cowards, but the coward with the gun who is determined to kill can still kill the brave man who does not fight back.

    The foreign policy Dana (556f76)

  126. JD, a gentleman and scholar, writes:
    “Pure unadulterated bullshit. Name me one single solitary intelligence agency prior to the war that did not arrive at the same conclusions as our intelligence community. The underlying findings of the intelligence community were not in dispute, even by the American Leftists.”

    More than a few “single solitary” facts:

    From Rupert Murdoch’s Times of London:
    “ MI6 told Tony Blair before the invasion of Iraq that a high-placed Iraqi source said that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence was passed to the US but was buried by the White House, according to a new book.’’
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4466512.ece

    From the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee investigation:

    “Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Community’s October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic tradecraft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence.”
    http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf

    Details of how it all happened in James Risen’s book:
    “ The CIA had overwhelming evidence that Iraq had no nuclear weapons programs during the run-up to the Iraq war. They kept that information to themselves and didn’t tell the president.’’
    http://books.simonandschuster.com/9780743270663

    What we have here is a classic case of right-wing blogosphere echo-think.

    Of course JD believes ALL intelligence agencies were convinced Iraq had WMD. How could he believe anything else, given that meme has been repeated so many times on right wing blogs and anyone who denies it is banned.

    Hax Vobiscum (4012df)

  127. I think it’s time to ban Robert. And Lin W. And Rebekka.

    Hey, lookee there. Only had to ban one IP address.

    Funny, that.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  128. Patterico, I think you should start a collection of sockpuppets. And you could name each of them. So you could have an ever growing Rogue’s Gallery of Gleenism.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  129. I think it’s time to ban Robert. And Lin W. And Rebekka.
    Hey, lookee there. Only had to ban one IP address.
    Funny, that.
    Comment by Patterico — 3/3/2009 @ 11:21 pm

    Heh, called it. Classic.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  130. [Holy crap this is funny. I mean, I know this guy’s banned, but this comment DEMANDS to be approved. — P]

    I would at this point like to thank everybody in this forum for you valuable contribution to my research on Motivation to Reactive and Compensatory Violence (psychology)

    Unfortunately this had to include the deliberate arousing of anger and frustration from the participants in this and other forums, so please excuse the inconvenience.

    Appart from yielding very valuable information, this forum proved to be a most participative and effervescent, from real and unreal personas.

    It is my duty to let you know, in regards to professional ethics. Thank you and best regrds.

    Sincerely,
    Bill Patrick

    Robert (12f782)

  131. I just want to make sure everyone saw the comment by Robert immediately above this one.

    Hilarious.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  132. I think “Thank you and best regrds” has to go in the memory bank along with “I work here is done” in the annals of Famous Last Words by Trolls.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  133. The entire post is surreal, Patterico. Appreciate the share.

    Since I teach a lot, I read that last line as “..thank you and best regrades

    Time to take a break from correcting exams.

    At some point, someone needs to collect Parting Words from Obnoxious Trolls into a format where those words can be savored. I don’t have sufficient history to give context but “I work here is done” is awfully funny.

    This line was funny, too:

    “…Appart from yielding very valuable information, this forum proved to be a most participative and effervescent, from real and unreal personas….”

    Um. The valuable information was what, precisely? And a most participative and effervescent what?

    The “professional ethics” bit was amusing too. Psychology departments have to go through all kinds of hoops…but never after the fact.

    I’m thinking undergrad.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)


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