CPAC: Is This the Image Republicans Want to Project?
Ah, CPAC.
First you have Cliff Kincaid suggesting Obama may not have been born in this country:
And a roar of approval and lots of clapping.
Then you have John Bolton talking about the possibility of an American city being nuked, making the point that this prospect is not a tiny threat — and saying: “pick one at random, Chicago . . .”
Which gets laughter and plenty of clapping.
This is great, because this is how we want Republicans portrayed to the country at large. I think it’s all very productive and will help in 2010.
Still to come: Ann Coulter!
Don’t forget Rush’s continued desire that Obama fail at the economic recovery. I don’t think what he’s doing will help much in the short term and will be bad in the long term but I hope I’m wrong. I think rush is an idiot for actually wanting people to suffer economically to score political points.
Comment by Joe (46cc0f) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:35 am
When people get all stirred up about politics, they often run the risk of coming to resemble their enemies.
Comment by Eric Blair (8d54e0) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:40 am
Wonderful news – the tent just keeps widening /sarc off
Comment by voiceofreason2 (10af7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:46 am
First, the Rush comment is another straw man. He said he hoped Obama failed if it was socialism he was planning on. So far, that seems to be it. I don’t think anybody has to worry that socialism will succeed. I do agree that he should avoid those terms as the left will be focused on sound bites right now.
Second, the stuff about Obama being a non-citizen is the same category as the Bush family being funded by the Saudis, a serious charge in some circles on the left.
Comment by Mike K (2cf494) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:48 am
What’s in the water at CPAC? These own-goals are why Hope and Change worked so well. Birth-certificate truthers are idiots… even if it was true (I don’t believe it is), that ship has sailed. Besides, do they really want Joe Biden as President? Really?
On the second part, I expected better from John Bolton. Period.
Joe, Rush wants Socialist policies to fail, not any economic recovery. So do I. I want President Obama (my President even though I frequently disagree with his policies) to succeed. I want him to do this by doing the right things, not by making government more powerful and intrusive. If that’s what he wants to do, I want him to fail at it. The country is more important than any of the government branches. If the Legislative or Judicial branches try to do things that will hurt the country, I want them to fail as well. That doesn’t mean I want the country or the economy to fail.
Framing Rush’s comments in that manner is not accurate.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:50 am
Baracky doesn’t act like someone with our country’s best interests at heart is the point I think. It’s simply impossible that he’s not ruining our little country on purpose. American people have never had to mount a political argument that um no we shouldn’t ruin our little country on purpose. I would cut these guys some slack. They’re definitely the good guys.
Comment by happyfeet (bf7f5a) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:51 am
His position seems to be that people will suffer more if Obama succeeds with his agenda. Under such circumstances, it’s entirely logical to hope that he fails to enact that agenda.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:54 am
Yeah, Republicans should know better than the act like Democrats.
Comment by Rob Crawford (04f50f) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:54 am
Rush is right: Obama needs to fail in reaching his agenda. The economy was already turning around in January, no thanks to bush or Obama, and his entire agenda is going to do a lot more damage than good.
These comments and applause about nuking Chicago are outright a different thing entirely than Rush. When a conservative criticizes a conservative, the left can’t come in and day ‘I agree’. They have to come in and try to get as much milk as they can out of the controversy by linking offensive horrible bullshit to legitimate and intelligent thought. They want Rush to be the same as Ann Coulter, but he’s just not.
Comment by Joco (4cdfb7) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:55 am
I listened to all of these clips and they seem quite reasonable compared to the silliness of Democrats justifying bailing out those who bought mansions beyond their means…
Comment by Augustine 25 (a2e809) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:57 am
This is a childish way to conduct business, and Republican activists should try to show a modicum of class. That being said, Republicans watched Democrat activists act like donkey’s asses for the last eight years and instead of causing them political harm, their negativity led them to winning the White House and Congress. And of course Mr. Bring the Parties Together has turned out to be a rank partisan when it suits his needs. I don’t particularly like it, but I can sort of understand if the GOP thinks that anger is the best way to rally the troops.
Comment by JVW (7b05c8) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:58 am
Ruining our little country is how Baracky defines success. I hope he fails, but he won’t I don’t think. His media and his universities and his NGOs and his dirty socialist blue state mayor and governor friends like Arnold and the goof in charge of Los Angeles, they all have the playbook and it’s already half-time. That was a football metaphor.
Comment by happyfeet (bf7f5a) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:58 am
I’m beginning to wonder if you even read your own blog.
Is this the image republicans want to project?
Why aren’t you at CPAC raging against Murdoch’s apology for that “non-racist” cartoon.
Comment by P. Favor (62b020) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:02 am
Birth-certificate trutherism and intimating that nuking Chicago might not be all bad (and that is the intimation, even if he was attempting to be humorous) is not reasonable or helpful. The Republican Party just made it even more unlikely that I’d rejoin… I doubt I’m alone.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:05 am
#11 happyfeet:
happfeets playing football…
Uh, never mind.
Anyway, from above:
So would I, but the point is that the opposition most definitely won’t.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:05 am
Not that they have a brain to share between ‘em, as illustrated already by the moron in this thread already.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:07 am
Why aren’t you at CPAC raging against Murdoch’s apology for that “non-racist” cartoon.
Comment by P. Favor — 2/27/2009 @ 8:02 am
This’ll be good. You might want to step back and do some damage-control before Patterico reads that P. Favor, unless you enjoy looking foolish. Day-job, remember? Also, linking to the blog in general… very unwise IMO. If you think that the entire site is so bad, why are you here? Also, it’s not a “Republican” site, it’s a conservative-leaning one.
Never mind. Stand your ground, stick by your words, hold the line. Maybe Patterico will get fed up with the increased trollishness and hammer it more often. The beat-down of the “journalist” was very entertaining, especially since the recipient is still largely clueless at how thoroughly he was beclowned.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:16 am
It’s hard for a lot of y’all to accept that it’s game over I think. Game over for politics as usual. He told you but you did not believe him. Yes, sometimes when that happens decorum becomes paramount. This time, not so much.
Comment by happyfeet (bf7f5a) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:18 am
Im beginning to wonder if you even read your own blog.
Is this the image republicans want to project?
Why arent you at CPAC raging against Murdochs apology for that non-racist cartoon?
1) I have a job.
2) Even if I didn’t have job, I wouldn’t do what you suggest, because I don’t care that much.
3) If your message is that Republicans need to cave in to every phony controversy trumped up by the race hustlers, I disagree.
Comment by Patterico (b77e3c) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:20 am
No, and this is an example of why the Republican annual fund-raising membership plea was recently filed in my trash bin. Just because the Yearly Kos and similar left-leaning convocations are similarly paranoid and disrectful is no reason to join them. Republicans should assert themselves as the responsible adults, so that they retain some credbility when the country sees 2 or 4 years of juvenile game-playing with our country’s policies on several fronts. Conspiracy theories and flame-throwing commentary are not helpful, even if it makes news. Ann Coulter is often brilliant in print, but I would let her speak in public on behalf of the local rugby team, let alone a political movement that seeks to govern the Republic.
Comment by carlitos (d5b713) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:23 am
Strikes me as facts…what exactly is the problem???? Ever heard the Dems talk???
Comment by winston (60daac) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:28 am
This guy should be beaten to a pulp for advocating bombing a U.S. city. I’m telling my Chicago marine and army buddies about this jackass.
Comment by Subash (36f307) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:40 am
Comment by Subash — 2/27/2009 @ 8:40 am
Moby-alert! (stupid one, but aren’t most of them?)
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:47 am
Yes, by all means. These are not exaggerations.
If Obama wants to end the controversy and stop spending millions to avoid it, he should release an original birth certificate and Occidental College records. YOU know the media would demand it of a republican in similar circumstances. The longer he persists in the simple resolution of this the more questions that are raised.
Yes, Obama places us at a significantly higher risk for terrorist attacks.
The dems went full bore non-stop. It worked for them. We need to learn that lesson. Unlike the dems we need to stick with facts, but move forward strongly none the less.
Yes this is the image. Yes Rush is wrongly demonized and you should stick together, ala Reagan, rather than appease the mainstream media by seeming harmless and happy.
Grow a backbone.
Comment by MNM (9d3281) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:55 am
Shorter Patterico:
“Leave Obama alone, sob…sob…!!”
The GOP is quickly becoming the party of uber-sensitive girlymen. And it’s embarrassing to watch.
Comment by Karen Schell (f42117) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:55 am
*watches the videos*
Oh ffs. God damnit you guys…
The last thing we need to do is start acting like the freaking Left after 2000.
Comment by Scott Jacobs (90ff96) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:55 am
clif kinkaid doing the birther crap is embarassing, but i don’t see your point with the bolton clip.
someone explain what’s wrong with that.
you know, without trying to claim that bolton suggested that it would be good for chicago to be nuked.
Comment by jummy (637fb6) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:04 am
This is the kind of dark, I-don’t-really-mean-it humor that nearly everyone engages in, in private. It’s not for public airing. Dumb (of them to say these things in public).
As Scott and others have said, “we” conservatives end up sounding like the nutters in 2001-08.
Comment by Mitch (890cbf) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:09 am
Imagine, a man who finds the US Constitution “deeply flawed” might not find it worth his time to obey some arcane regulation that stands in his way to power. Why I’ve never heard of such a thing.
I’ve never heard of Congress voting to give Washington DC, a voting Representative in Congress without going through the accepted procedure of amending the Constitution, either.
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:11 am
jummy, why would Chicago bring a laugh? Because the unspoken assumption is that it’s not all downside. Otherwise, where’s the humor?
I’ve got a lot of respect for John Bolton. This was just an own-goal at a bad time. I’ve said plenty of stupid things at the wrong time… denying it wouldn’t change the fact it was an error in judgment.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:13 am
The worst thing at CPAC was the racist retard Michele Bachman saying to Michael Steele: “You be da man!”
Comment by Mitchell Blatt (eec6b0) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:15 am
Ahh… sitemeter shows why the blog is going wonky and the “drive-by outrage” is in full-swing. A post from Hot Air. I’ll be back when things calm a bit.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:22 am
por favor demonstrates its awesome intellect, yet again.
These people make asses of themselves at this thing every year. It is what they do.
Comment by JD (0aaaea) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:28 am
The last thing we need to do is start acting like the freaking Left after 2000.
Certainly didn’t work for them. White House, supermajority in the Senate, ~100 seat advantage in the House, a fawning, slavish news media..
Nah, we need to be quiet little boys and girls and do as we’re told. Because, you know, being the “loyal opposition” means standing athwart history and yelling, “Please don’t hurt me!”
Comment by spmat (19c08a) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:31 am
To Pick A Nit….
It’s the Conservative Political Action Conference;
not the Republican Political Action Conference!
Comment by AD - RtR/OS (10cf6d) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:33 am
I agree with JD. These people aren’t representative of anything but a sort of icky Reagan nostalgia fetishism. I think Cap’n Ed might have to write another sternly worded latter.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:33 am
Obama almost certainly is not eligible to be President. A flood of lawsuits have been brought to bear to force him to produce genuine evidence, as in a birth certificate. He continues to fight it with his lawyers. If he were eligible according to the Constitution, he would simply produce the evidence.
Yes, Republicans need to go on the attack. To hell with images!
Comment by Tex Expatriate (7eb84c) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:39 am
Yes, Obama is ineligible according to the Constitution. If he were not inelegible, he would produce the evidence, as in a birth certificate. Instead he has teams of lawyers fighting a couple of dozen lawsuits to make him produce that evidence.
Republicans need to go on attack and stay on attack until this radical socialist is defeated.
Comment by Tex Expatriate (7eb84c) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:40 am
“Hot Air”… never was a blog more appropriately named, even if they thought they were being cute and self-deprecating and anticipatory and all that other bullshit when they named it.
Comment by Leviticus (b987b0) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:40 am
Stashiu3 -
It might have gotten a laugh because Obama is such a power hungry bugger that no one would put it past him to bribe terrorist into nuking any city but.
Europeans, of whose politics Barack Obama aspires Americans to emulate, have been doing the same for years – usually at the expense of Israel.
Another way to look at the joke, is to remember that Obama and other faux liberals honestly believe that they are such good people surely no one would hurt them or hate them. It is all just one big misunderstanding.
Nuking Chicago might be enough to shake Barack Obama into a more realistic world view, but don’t bet the farm on it.
People are still defending and/or excusing Abdullah al Muhajir who was tasked by Abu Zubaydah to explode dirty bombs in Chicago when the materials for constructing a “and H-bomb” couldn’t be assembled.
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:40 am
While I can’t say with any real certainty whether or not Obama (PBUH) is a natural born citizen, I do think that it’s highly suspect that he has spent in excess of $1M to avoid having to provide a $22 document.
Comment by David S, (0f4b47) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:51 am
Geez. I just got one qwestion for the Birt certifycate troofers.
Wuz hiz mama a citizen?
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:56 am
Stashiu,
Thanks for the heads-up on that. I was just remembering that I haven’t read Hot Air much lately, despite loving Allahpundit’s humor.
To clarify my early point “would NOT” let AC speak on behalf of my rugby club.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:56 am
Yeah. I don’t really get the snottiness about birthers when it would be so easy to put this to rest. I guess the argument is that Baracky did a rope-a-dope thinger and kept this alive so his opponents would look unhinged.
But we know a lot less about this president person than we usually know about president people. I can’t blame people for finding the dirty socialist a bit sketch. Cause he is. Who could have headed this off is the media, and they betrayed America instead. Even if you think birthers are silly, they’re stepping up I think. Good for them.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:57 am
I have another: How about that fake moon landing?
Ferchrissakes, people. Stop it. You look foolish. You’re NOT helping.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:01 am
EW1SG – Seems strange that in a post dedicated to taking the high ground, you would resort to ad hominem…
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:05 am
Republicans worry incessantly about their “image.” When you think of the literally insane things that Democrat leaders and pundits say every day in the media – EVERY DAY – I ask, how has it hurt them? It hasn’t. Not one bit, gathering by their representation in the House, Senate, and Oval Office. I think we should worry a lot less about “image” and focus more on plain talk, no matter how unpopular.
Comment by KC (2a1d50) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:08 am
What do we knoe about Obama’s history apart from his two autobiographies? Is it improper to ask?
Comment by Mason (893fab) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:09 am
I think it’s time for all of us to know what Patterico’s truest members are all about.
Especially given some of the comments here concerning CPAC.
I’m learning as I go along, and I’m not trying to be mean or offensive.
Here’s what I think I know.
Please correct me one and all.
1. Be a true conservative
2. Tollerate, but not necessarily agree with Republican policies. Especially the ones that are not living up to true conservatism.
3. Dislike of moderate Democrat’s policies.
4. Hate of libberal Democrat’s policies.
How close am I?
Some call me a Troll here (sometimes warranted I’m sure). If you feel that this comment falls under that category, by all means ignore me.
Calling me a “Troll” for this coment which is only about clarification needed by me and many others, would seem childish in my opinion.
I really do want to learn where regular Patterico readers stand.
Most of you already know where I stand.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:09 am
I stand with KC. Jeez. To nominate John McCain and then worry about image is surreal.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:12 am
EW1(SG), *snort*
carlitos, after being mostly offline for several months I really don’t want to swim in the crazy cesspools that many sites have become. The regulars at most sites are still snarky, funny, and generally pleasant… but it seems that the trollishness and moby activity has gotten worse.
And honestly, I get the impression that after the election-losses, some of the right-leaning visitors have become as unhinged and deranged as the left-leaning ones we used to laugh at. Not everyone who seems to be a moby actually is. Some of them are really that far gone. It’s not as bad here, so this is where I generally spend my online time for now.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:12 am
You stand right where you always stood, on top of a mountain of unsupported assertions, shouting generalities. Or are you at the library researching highway funding by vehicle type vs. fuel taxes today?
Good day, sir.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:12 am
First of all, I’m not a Rush fan but I agree with him when he said that IF he plans to pass socialist policies he hopes he FAILS at it! Get the wax out of your ears and hear Obama as he creates a self-fulfilling prophecy with his speeches about DOOM and GLOOM while you blame Rush Limbaugh for his choice of words!
For the uninformed masses: go to Obamacrimes.com There you will find out (more than) that Obama IS NOT a natural born citizen. Why else would he not supply a real birth certificate? Why else would he be threatening the growing number of people who are suing him with threats? I know it’s a moot point and if it’s fully exposed could cause rioting and Marshall Law. However, it shows the foundation of the lie upon lie that this fraud is building. Wake up people, this is a socialist/Marxist coup we are experiencing while we argue about details!!!
Comment by Christie (00fa44) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:13 am
High ground. The very premise of this dumbass thread is straight from the damn gutter. There is nothing wrong with calling Brakabama the incompetent leftist dung beetle he is. Bush has been called hitler by these vermin for 8 years and they now control every level of the federal government. Anasshole on the internet ridiculing republicans for being honest about the danger these ratbag maggots pose to the future of this country doesn’t display ANYTHING EVEN APPROACHING wisdom on the subject of strategy.
What drivel.
Comment by ccoffer (a131b0) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:13 am
I think that “tollerate” was a bit of a Freudian slip, but “trollerate” would be more precise.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:14 am
It isn’t about taking the high ground, it’s about not being a bunch of frigging nuts.
Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:14 am
There’s very little daylight between the attitudes expressed on these videos and the views expressed by this blog’s regular commentariat.
It just sounds worse when you watch it uttered on screen.
This is the Republican party blogs like this helped fashion.
Comment by Cyrus Sanai (ada6da) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:15 am
Yep, they look pretty unhinged from where I am sitting. But I have been listening to this kind of nutty stuff from “conservative” “commentators” and “comedians” for umpty umpty years.
This is where the debate in the Republican party is going to have to happen. When deciding who their constituents are how far right do they want to reach? There are people for whom “showing America we can stick to our principles” is equal to sticking with the same old crap. That will play for 20% of the country but what about the other 30plus you need to win an election? The other 30% of voters just said that they are sick of the same old crap (which is why H. Clinton didn’t get the nomination for the Dems) or even the same old crap but “reformed” which is why they didn’t go for McCain.
Maybe McCain was right but what people want to hear from conservatives is why he was right and how he and other leaders are going to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear when they regain control of the Congress in a couple of years.
Dems are commies, The terrorists are coming, it’s all the fault of “liberals” blah blah etc. are really stale, played out ideas that lack pragmatism which is what people seem to want. It makes conservatives and their Republican allies sound nutty.
Comment by EdWood (c2268a) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:16 am
BTW, I don’t have a problem with what Bolton said. But the applause is frigging creepy.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:17 am
Stashiu, you are right. They is serious – although the use of ALL CAPS is a bit more subtle than the lefties. Please birth certificate people, don’t point me to a link, just post a wall o’text right here to explain things to me
The good news is that now media matters can point to the “typical” posts over at looney nutball Patterico’s site – /snark
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:17 am
Why can’t the GOP be comprised of groups of people? Why can’t it be a coalition? Cindy Sheehan voted for Obama, and some of the people who doubt Barack’s eligibility voted for Mccain. Why should that matter?
Obama was raised overseas, there was some weirdness to his COLB or whatever it was, and some people aren’t convinced Obama has settled the matter… and wouldn’t be even with a Birth Certificate in this age of digital manipulation.
why should that be a problem for the rest of the GOP, that thinks this isn’t a big deal? Lots of republicans think Bill CLinton sold nuke secrets to China and Hillary killed Vince Foster, and lots of Democrats think Bush orchestrated or permitted 9/11 to occur.
At least, in this case, it’s clear that Obama’s birth certificate is being kept secret… some say because it’s none of our business, but that still gives people a legit place to argue from. This isn’t a heinous or evil question. It’s more of a joke, really, that Obama is the least transparent president in this nation’s modern history.
Why not laugh about it? The nuke joke seems entirely worse.
Comment by Joco (4cdfb7) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:18 am
Cyrus don’t want anybody packed and he don’t want anybody flexing any muscle. So, I gave him my word that the Warriors would uphold the truce.
Comment by the regular commentariat (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:21 am
I wonder when people are going to realize that there is no way we can continue to share a country with the left. This can not continue. One of us must be defeated utterly.
The left gets this. Why do you think they are (re)moving heaven and earth right now to destroy every last thing that Conservatives cherish: Christianity, the First and Second Amendments, personal responsibility, morality of any sort, and in the end every sort of freedom that a person can have.
We are at war.
This is a civil war EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS IT WAS IN 1861. Unless we realize that the Ascension of Barack Obama was the “Fort Sumter” of this war we are going to be wiped out. Just like the North until at least Antietam we are being creamed in every battle right now.
If we lose, we and our children will be the slaves of socialism, athiesm, political correctness, and in the end some form of genocide agaisnt every person who comes down with the “disease” of Conservative Christian ideals.
Comment by wayne (eb4691) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:26 am
What is the problem?
Mr. Kincaid and Mr. Bolton were speaking truth to power, something that should be more prevalent among conservatives, not less. Where did the notion come from that conservatives must always sound like dweebs, such as David Brooks? And since when have conservatives got into the habit of denouncing CPAC annually? That’s a job for the big city newspapers (assuming yours is still there today).
Mr. Obama hired lawyers to defend the “birth certificate” lawsuits, which is his right, but those lawyers have stonewalled and even demanded sanctions against some plaintiffs. Of course, the easiest method of disposing of this notion he’s not a natural born citizen is to simply produce the US birth certificate. Does he have one? Who knows?
A terrorist group that wants to target an big American city would, of course, include Chicago on the list of candidates. There’s no problem with saying that. Don’t you think the CIA and NSA have already considered scenarios like that? And remember, it was Barry Goldwater who said it would be nice if we could saw off the Eastern Seaboard and let it just float out to sea. Barry Goldwater was a conservative.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:26 am
#48 Thanks for the clarification Carlitos.
It really helps your cause.
By the way you already know what I think of fuel taxes per vehicle and by vehicle. It’s not enough to compensate for their respective usage of public roads. Especially trucks Carlitos.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:27 am
Oiram,
1. Agree, although you’re going to get a billion different definitions of what a “true conservative” is, so as a binding principle I think that needs work.
2. Disagree overall. Until they walk the walk, the Republican Party has little to offer me. Tolerating any policy made in good faith is a good idea, no matter which party it comes from. Tolerating means being able to discuss, disagree, and even work against a policy without having to demonize the other side.
3. I probably like most moderate Democrats and their policies… idealism is not a bad thing. Some I would vote against because I don’t think they would work, or can’t be afforded right now, but I still like the sentiment behind it.
4. Almost certainly if you’re talking about solid-Left or far-left. They’ve been corrupted and subsumed by Socialists/Communists, even if they don’t know it. Hate, hate, hate the policies… still have hope for many of the people though. A little age and maturity, exposure to reality instead of the Dkos echo-chamber, and some painful consequences from winning will bring many of them closer to the center or center-right.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:29 am
Pablo – am I a frigging nut for believing that a person desirous of power would have few calms about ignoring arcane rules in a document that sets the legal tone for a country he despises to achieve his life long ambition of power?
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:30 am
#59
The left gets this. Why do you think they are (re)moving heaven and earth right now to destroy every last thing that Conservatives cherish: Christianity, the First and Second Amendments, personal responsibility, morality of any sort, and in the end every sort of freedom that a person can have.
Nope
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:30 am
No, it isn’t. The document he’s produced, which wouldn’t be questioned for any other person in any other context is suddenly suspect for one person in a context in which he’s not ever required to present it. He was born in hawaii. He’s a natural born citizen. Get. Over. It. There are plenty of far more substantive things to criticize about him, like his filthy socialists budget and his tendency to hang out with very unsavory people like Pelosi and Reid. Go after that stuff all you want. This one looks like what it is: trutherism.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:31 am
This is the Republican party blogs like this helped fashion.
Comment by Cyrus Sanai — 2/27/2009 @ 10:15 am
Cyrus,
God
Forgives
You
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:32 am
Oiram, I know what you think, but you don’t know a damn thing, and refuse to posts facts that show what you think is indeed true. Your posting of opinion without fact, insistence that you are right, then refusal to posts links to data or facts is why you are called ‘troll’ by some.
Feelings do not equal facts.
Oh, and Good Lord with the birth certificate people.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:33 am
We’ve seen the document. The State of Hawaii has verified it. Can you wrap your head around that? If not, you’re a nut.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:34 am
Sure, Pablo, just as you say, “the document he’s produced. . .wouldn’t be questioned for any other person in any other context.” That’s because the position Obama holds is a unique job with a unique job requirement: being a natural born citizen.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:36 am
I saw Obama’s birth certificate appear in the
chemcontrails above Honolulu International Airport at 4:20 this afternoon.Comment by cheech's republican brother-in-law (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:37 am
Pablo shoots…and scores!
Seriously folks, if Obama’s mama was a natural born US citizen, and I have never heard anyone even question whether or not she was….then so is he.
I have heard some folks argue that there are legitimate questions about his citizenship becuase of his mother’s statutory status at the time of his birth…but such arguments strike me as of a variety ex post facto bill of attainder, and we all know just how much those are worth, Constitutionally speaking.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:40 am
…variety of…
Hate it when my fish Fido is reading over my shoulder as I type…
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:41 am
Pablo -
The only document I mentioned, or inferred, was the Constitution.
Did not the US Congress just pass a law giving Washington, DC, a voting representative without bothering to amend the Constitution?
Therefore, am I a nut for believing that there are people in power who do not respect the very Constitution which gives them power?
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:41 am
Many things require citizenship, like getting a passport. If you don’t think Obama is a natural born citizen, then please show me when he was naturalized. The document says he was born in Hawaii, and it has been verified by that state. Get. Over. It.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:43 am
Let’s review just a few of the Democrat Party tactics: They spent the first four years calling President Bush “illegitimate”, grown men and women in Congress (and the MSM) told Americans everyday that this President STOLE an election, they deliberately fostered hate and fear, knowing it was a lie. Nancy spent the last four years saying nothing but “failure, failure, failure.” It got to the point where Ring Around The Collar was Bush’s fault. She, Obama, and Harry Reid declared the Iraq war LOST and tried their damnedest to lose it, all to score political points and turn Iraq into another Vietnam that the Democrats could run against for another 30 years. They stole our troops honor in death, and stole their victories.
The entire Valerie Plame “scandal” was made up out of whole cloth by the Kerry campaign, in conjunction with David Corn. It planted the “Bush lied” meme that Democrats rode all the way through the 2006 elections. Then they pulled the Dan Rather bull with the fake TANG memos to try to nail George W. Bush. Only thanks to Buckhead, on a Republican internet forum, they did not get away with it. Ray Nagin refused to call a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, left 200 school buses unused, and made no contingency plans for getting people out of the Superdome or the Convention Center after Katrina. But Reid was right there to blame Bush.
No terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11. But all the Dems says is “we are not safer” and the media laps it up. Not to mention that after 9/11 ….SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON HOLDING UP A FRONT PAGE OF A NEWSPAPER, ON THE UNITED STATES SENATE FLOOR…SAYING BUSH KNEW! They started websites, made movies, wore T-shirts, ran protests with hanging effigies and Hitler photo shops constantly in order to destroy the President and the Vice President of the United States.
Now they have foisted an anti-American President on us…who sat in an anti-American racist church with his children for 20 years, and a man who has friends in the WeatherUnderground. This political party proved they will lie, publish forged documents, and try to lose a war in order to gain power. A little more reality:
I saw this site: From 52 to 48 With Love , in which the same group of spoiled little brats that threw a full-throated temper tantrum after losing in 2004 now tell us that everything’s okay because they finally got the kool-aid flavored lollipop they wanted. As Treacher says “There’s nothing easier than telling the guy you just beat that he should forget the depths you plumbed to do so.” Precisely. It’s a nice sentiment, but maybe you should have thought of it before taking the time to make signs apologizing to the world because those mean nasty Republicans didn’t let you win. Sorry, folks. No frakkin’ sale.
We remember “Jesusland.” And if you have a few hours, scroll through Malkin’s “Bush Derangement Syndrome” archive. We remember everything – being called racist warmongers, Christianist nutbags, and all the rest of the vitriol you folks threw at us in your “AAAHHH CHIMPY MCBUSHITLER HALLIBURTON IS THE EVILEST” stage of political development.
You spent the last eight years engaged in a disgusting orgy of divisive political hatred and now you want to play nice and pretend we’re all united now? When we asked you to unite for the country it was in the course of a shooting war with an enemy who would like to kill us all. You told us to stuff it.
The Democrats have spent the last eight years blackmailing the country: give us power or we will destroy America. We’ll stab the troops in the back, leak classified intelligence, block George Bush at every turn, loudly protest and bring things to a halt, do our best to drive the economy into the ground and make this country a smoldering ruin until you let us win. And now they want to kiss and make up?
I will laugh at every stumble he makes, applaud his mistakes and cheer his enemies. I want him to spend the next four years cowering in a corner while our economy crashes and burns and our enemies kick his bony ass. I want him to leave office a broken man. And I want every disloyal asshole who voted for him to share his pain. These rotten bastards poisoned the well for the last eight years, and I want them to choke on it now.
Create doubt. Question his judgment. Support his opponents. Ridicule his errors. Mitigate his successes with suggestion of unintended consequences. Refuse to praise his work. Challenge his advocates when they advocate.
Treat him with the same respect Pres Bush was treated with.
Comment by Sam (b38c5c) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:43 am
John Bolton is a nutcase for bringing up the subject of nuclear war? Why? Don’t you ever consider the possibilty? I think it foolish to not know how to respond if a nuke were to fall in your neighborhood. Talk about it!
Or are you just self-rightously offended at his “humor” of cities? That’s right. BO can’t be joked about. He’s messiah material.
Comment by Bramble (1747f3) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:45 am
I just think people are free to be nuts is all. There’s nothing inherently un-American about being nuts. It’s different than being a dirty socialist bent on destroying the American economy and perverting her values.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:45 am
Adriane, the topic is the birth certificate. If you want to argue that he doesn’t care for the Constitution, go right ahead. I’ll even agree with you. He thinks it’s flawed, after all.
If you want to argue that he’s ineligible, then you’re a nut. And if you want to argue that, run with this. At least that’s funny.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:49 am
#62 Thanks exclusively3. That’s honest clarification.
I agree, there would be many definitions of what a Conservative is.
Many here have to realize that there are also many definitions of what a liberal is.
I consider myself a liberal, yet I’m Christian (contrary to what wayne @ #59 thinks).
I consider myself a liberal, yet I know that I don’t want to live in a world exclusively run by liberals, nor do I want to live in a world run exclusively by Conservatives.
I do appreciate our free market system, I just think it needs to be regulated in order to run correctly. Sorry if I don’t trust corporations to consider the needs of it’s people and it’s employees.
I personally think one of the reasons we’re still around, and able to write our thoughts here freely is because of balance in our political system.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:50 am
I forget… who did Abraham Lincoln present his birth certificate to in order to run for President?
President Obama’s mother was a citizen? If you answered yes, stop here.
The State of Hawaii determines the validity of their birth documentation? If you answered yes, stop here.
President Obama has already been elected, the election certified, sworn in and assumed duties as President. Having President Obama is better than having President Biden? If you answered yes, stop here.
The 9/11 truthers, fake moon-landing truthers, Palin-Trig truthers (yes, you too Sullivan), and Boy George should all be examined and treated if necessary? If you answered yes, stop here.
If you haven’t answered yes to any of the above, carry on. You make yourself look deranged, but it’s a free country.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:51 am
The US Constitution does not specify that you need to be a citizen, like you need for a passport, to be President but a natural-born citizen. And I didn’t say he was naturalized. However, Obama did have an Indonesian passport in 1981 for a trip to Pakistan.
No, Pablo, you get over it.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:00 am
#67 So Carlitos are you telling me your opinion is fact?
Interesting, I know the facts on fuel taxes Carlitos and I told you my opinion.
I can’t be 100% sure that I’m right, sorry if I conveyed that to you.
I seriously hope you don’t think your opinions are 100% fact.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:01 am
EW1(SG)/Stashiu3 -
there is also the argument that Stanley gave up her son’s citizenship so that he could be adopted as an Indonesian. Upon return to the US, the family would have had to reapply for his citizenship rather than pretend it never happened.
Also, Obama used an Indonesian passport to visit Pakistan after his 18th birthday. Upon 18, duel citizens, assuming the family reapplied and was granted a US citizenship for him, must declare their intent to become and remain American.
Using an Indonesian passport to travel signals an intent to choose the Indonesian and not the American citizenship.
Rules for thee, but not for me is a really great way to live, eh?
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:02 am
What US law is that based on?
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:04 am
#67 At least we agree on the birth certificate issue Carlitos.
I would be appalled if my parties lunatic fringe were still bringing up that trash.
I was appalled when they were bringing up similar accusations against McCain.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:05 am
US law allows for dual citizenship. What evidence do you have that he had Indonesian citizenship or a passport? And if that is your argument, are you admitting that he was born in Hawaii?
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:07 am
#79 Brilliant Stashiu3
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:09 am
[...] Patterico has a post up with some videos of what’s going on at CPAC. I expect to see some red meat tossed around at a gathering such as this. Partisanship is what you expect from a gathering of Conservatives and Republicans. There’s a point though where the barbs and jabs go too far. [...]
Pingback by Confessions of a Pilgrim - We are the LOYAL Opposition folks (c5b435) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:09 am
Pablo, the intellectual or legal loophole that creates this question about Obama’s eligibility is that until 1972, Hawaii issue something called a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” for children who were born in Hawaii, and for children who were born elsewhere, too. That paper document, if it still exists, isn’t the same as the “Certification of Live Birth” you saw on the internet. Is it close enough for Constitutional purposes? We don’t know.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:10 am
Do you have a point in there somewhere OIDO? There are only two ways to become a citizen, be born one or be naturalized. Are you saying he’s not a citizen? Or not a natural born citizen? Or maybe not born at all, but rather assembled in George Soros’ secret lair?
Hell, if you’re going to go for it, let your freak flag fly.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:14 am
Oiram, the only ” fact” you offered was a generic “not enough.”. Many posters posted facts and data, but you did not. You ran out to work when challenged. This fits a pattern for you. I don’t always like the taunting you receive, but should give some thought to this pattern that drives it.
Comment by carlitos (34c931) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:15 am
Good Allah.
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:15 am
Adriane,
There are lots of arguments being made. Most of them are bull and the rest are moot. You’ve made some claims and assumptions that are really not worth debunking again.
Ahh… the “Intent” clause… you obviously have the winning argument now (once you show your work that is).
Enjoy your day and keep in mind… much of what you are writing could have been cut&paste from Dkos talking about Bush or McCain, just change the names and places to protect the … fantasies I guess. Tell AP the boys all say, “Hey!”
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:16 am
#4 First, the Rush comment is another straw man. He said he hoped Obama failed if it was socialism he was planning on. So far, that seems to be it. I don’t think anybody has to worry that socialism will succeed. I do agree that he should avoid those terms as the left will be focused on sound bites right now.
Hey Mike or anyone,
Care to tell me how our Military for example is not socialistic?
By the way, I’m glad to know the Right never focuses on “sound bites”. **Rolling My Eyes**
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:17 am
I just don’t see what’s the dif if Baracky is technically an American or not. Either way he doesn’t act like it. He wants to be president of a whole different country than the one we been living in what had the freedoms and the free enterprise and the opportunity.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:18 am
Yes we do know. The Constitution doesn’t require documentation, only natural birth as a citizen. The document is irrelevant, Constitutionally speaking.
And really, I think I’m done arguing this as I don’t feel like going over and over the same ground for the bazillionth time. I might as well be tangling with flat earthers. Go tell it from the mountain: WE CONSERVATIVES KNOW OBAMA ISN’T EVEN AN AMERICAN!! NOW PUT US IN CHARGE!! Good luck with that.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:19 am
oiram, you are allowed to won private property in the military, so it’s not socialist. It is socialistic insofar as you sign a contract agreeing to pay and benefits in exchange for service. Wait… no, let me try again.
Comment by Joco (4cdfb7) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:20 am
And what did these certificates list as the place of birth?
See, this whole line of reasoning falls apart with that question. If the certificates list Honolulu as the place of birth for children born outside of Hawaii, then the claim is that the state of Hawaii falsified birth records on a massive scale.
You’ve yet to prove that Hawaii would list for the place of birth any place other than the actual place of birth for the recipients of these certificates.
Comment by Steverino (a37dd0) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:21 am
Yeah, Pablo, the point is that you’re not defining your terms, but more importantly, that the Supreme Court of the United States has never ruled on the definition of the term “natural-born citizen” as it appears in the Constitution.
We are not worried if he’s a citizen. If he’s a natural-born citizen, then he’s a citizen, too. But not necessarily the other way around.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:21 am
Immigration law.
The US does not allow dual citizenship, but acknowledges that dual citizenship happens based on the laws outside of US law that govern a child at birth.
When adopted into an Indonesian family, Barack Obama was a child not an infant to whom Mr. Soetoro could passed on a dual citizenship (unlike Barack younger half-sister).
To become eligible for an Indonesian citizenship, Stanley would have had to renounce her son’s American citizenship.
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:21 am
WTF?
That’s like the ne plus ultra of non sequitors.
Comment by Rob Crawford (04f50f) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:21 am
The arguments that Obama isn’t eligible, and the arguments that he is both have the same structure:
That the other side has not proven its case.
That’s why this is the most annoying topic, ever. Both sides refuse to accept that they have the burden of proof. It certainly hasn’t been proven that Obama is an n.b. citizen in the certain sense, but it’s also far from proven that he’s not.
All I’m saying is that it’s fair to poke fun at how he’s not transparent and how he’s hiding something. This much is certain. I’m happy to see people accuse him of all kinds of stuff. Why not?
Comment by Joco (4cdfb7) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:22 am
I need to hear Cyrus the Virus preach about as much as Mendoucheous Mario needs to be more obtuse, or as much as Hacks needs to be more dishonest.
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:23 am
You have to opt in, and then you can opt out.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:23 am
#90 Carlitos, I’ve noticed that the taunting usually comes when I give facts.
I gave you my opinion based on facts from you and others concering your current issue with me.
I didn’t even dispute your facts.
Sorry if I had to run off to work.
Try this fact:
On any given day when a liberal here is not being taunted, he or she is carpet bombed with questions, concerns, opinions, replies and “facts” and at a rate of of about five or six to one…. and that’s on a slow day.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:24 am
Comment by Pablo — 2/27/2009 @ 11:23 am
And the funding?
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:25 am
So you see, Obama isn’t eligible because SCOTUS hasn’t ruled on that definition!
And fire never melts steel!
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:26 am
Stashiu3 – thank you for your service to our country.
I do not engage in ad homenim nor do I accept it from other commenters.
Given that Patterico went out of his way to give you a voice to explain things that were ignored or distorted in the American MSM, I again find it strange that you would not give voice to others even if you disagreed with them.
I have never read the DailyKOS after Markos uttered his “screw them” comment re: American security personal in Iraq. Thank you for assuming otherwise.
My time here at Paterico’s is done.
I wish you all the best.
Comment by Adriane (6cae82) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:26 am
What about it?
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:27 am
Oiram@11:17
What are you talking about? Are you suggesting that the Military should be a democratic organization? All the members of the 82nd Airborne should VOTE on their commanders? Maybe they should vote on their missions as well? It’s the friggin MILITARY! The Military provides virtually EVERYTHING to the soldiers, sailors, marines, and zoomies. What does that have to do with this conversation?
Comment by Wayne Fielder (7b3a1a) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:29 am
#102 JD, you must be really proud of yourself when throwing insults around without really actually giving any substantive discussion.
You do it so well.
I guess your still sore about me calling you out on your feeble atempts to be obtuse about what earned income really means in order to push your agenda.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:30 am
Comment by Oiram — 2/27/2009 @ 11:17 am
You’re kidding, right? Everybody equal? You’ve never been in the military, obviously.
Sorry, that’s a strawman. Nobody has said that here and I don’t know anybody generally claims that. Besides, nothing wrong with soundbites unless they intentionally take things out of context and misrepresent them. If they fairly represent the point, nothing wrong with them.
Have to admit… right there with you on this one. It’s embarrassing really. Like I said earlier, we conservatives have been claiming to be more rational and mature, but after this loss I can’t point too hard at the more reasonable left and center-left. I guess many of them roll their eyes at Olbermann, Michael Moore, Rosie O’Donnell, etc… when they get particularly deranged or vile. Until recently, I could honestly believe that our crazies were a minuscule minority. Now, not quite so much.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:31 am
#109 Thanks for the info Wayne.
Apply that thinking to other needs of a society, not just war and security.
After all…… we are forced to pay for our military are we not?
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:32 am
I work is done. Good day, sir.
Comment by not adriane (eb120d) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:34 am
#112
Okay…so every citizen has to meet the physical fitness standards of the military? Every citizen has to qualify with an M4 rifle? Every citizen will be classified with a rank that creates a chain of command? Please.
No, I won’t apply that thinking to other needs of a society because there is no comparison. The Military is a society of it’s own made up of warriors and those who support the warriors.
And no…you are not forced to pay for our military. You are free to keep your earnings low enough to not pay federal taxes. You are also free to leave the country(not saying you should, just stating a fact).
You CHOOSE to pay for the military when you accept citizenship in America.
Comment by Wayne Fielder (7b3a1a) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:41 am
#111 Stashiu3, I was only comenting on Mike’s coment at #4. Specifically:
I do agree that he should avoid those terms as the left will be focused on sound bites right now.
I never said anyone here was focusing on a sound bite.
People on the right however have.
Besides that point, I believe what Limbaugh said was un American even when you add his coments labeling Obama as a socialist.
Millitary case in point.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:42 am
Then again, why get worked up at all over Kincaid’s and Bolton’s comments? If you really want to get worked up about the unorthodox things conservatives say, and I think you do, let’s hear what Ann Coulter has to say later.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:43 am
#116
I am VERY afraid of what Ms. Coulter has to say. Last year was an embarrassment and I’m sure she won’t disappoint this time around either.
Conservatives have to start playing this game like grownups. If we continue to play by the rules of the left we are going to lose. It’s the Conservatives that hold firmly to American core values and it is absolutely counter productive to our cause when we eschew those values for petty political points.
Comment by Wayne Fielder (7b3a1a) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:48 am
Comment by Adriane — 2/27/2009 @ 11:26 am
Good, you shouldn’t. Now, go look up ad homenim[sic] (hint: check the spelling before you do or you won’t find it. Sorry to be pedantic, but it’s “ad hominem”.) Then, show where I engaged in it.
I didn’t go to Patterico, remember? Also, unless you think I can delete your comments or show us where I told you that you couldn’t speak, you again demonstrate a Dkos mentality. (“They disagree with me so their supressing my right to speak.” Nonsense.)
I never claimed that you had ever read them, just that you were sounding like them. The fact that you’re a former reader is not surprising however.
… (looks around for sharp object to do some therapeutic cutting) … Take care. I wish you all the best.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:48 am
Was it un-American to want Bush to fail?
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:48 am
Comment by Wayne Fielder — 2/27/2009 @ 11:41 am
Thanks for the double standard Wayne.
I do choose to accept the Military.
Don’t worry my friend, if we decide to go with universal health care in this country, you will be free to keep your earnlings low enough to not pay federal taxes. You will also be free to leave the country (I’m not saying you should either, also stating a fact)
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:50 am
What did Ann Coulter say last year at CPAC that was so bad?
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (a45f7e) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:57 am
Was it un-American to want Bush to fail?
Comment by Pablo — 2/27/2009 @ 11:48 am
It sure was Pablo
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 12:42 pm
That John Edwards was a size 11, not a petite 6.
Comment by carlitos (eb120d) — 2/27/2009 @ 12:43 pm
#100 Rob Crawford:
I feel like I just walked into a brick wall with my eyes wide shut. If there were a term more hyperbolic than ne plus ultra, I would use it here.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 12:44 pm
Oiram,
But they didn’t say that they didn’t focus on soundbites themselves at times, just that the left was going to in this case. That was my point.
It was quintessentially American… even if the point was that he wanted Obama to fail because he hated the man. I wouldn’t agree with him and would argue/work against him if that was the case, but America is more than one man, one branch of government, or even the government itself. America is about being able to own your thoughts, feelings, and fruits of your labor without oppression. I can (or should be able to anyway) ridicule and ostracize a neighbor who is a racist, or argue against his beliefs. I can’t (or shouldn’t be able to anyway
) punch him in the face or take his property because he hates white/black/yellow/purple/fill-in-the-blank people.
If Kim Il Sun wanted to nuke Seoul and his people wanted him to fail because they like their old families and friends, wouldn’t that be ok? People should want policies they believe are bad to fail. I think President Bush was great overall… I’m sure you disagree. But I’m glad that his idea of Immigration Reform failed because I believe it would be bad for the country. If President Obama proposes the same thing or similar, I hope he fails. You may disagree. That doesn’t make either of us un-American in that case. Understand?
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 12:49 pm
If there were a term more hyperbolic than ne plus ultra, I would use it here.
I believe in modern conversation, and evidenced on occasion here, one could simply create a hyperbolic boost by adding…”f***ing ne plus ultra.
Comment by allan (42b686) — 2/27/2009 @ 12:53 pm
Comment by Stashiu3 — 2/27/2009 @ 12:49 pm
Yeah I do understand Stashiu3. Thanks.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 12:58 pm
Comment by Oiram — 2/27/2009 @ 11:50 am
*snort* I don’t care who you are, that was funny.
Comment by Oiram — 2/27/2009 @ 12:58 pm
You’re quite welcome. Nice talking with you.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:05 pm
Too bad, I was curious to know if you understood when you said:
that she can’t do that.
#94 happyfeet:
feets, I’m with you! There are lots of reasons to consider O!bama unqualified to be President, but the truth is that even if he were a Pennsylvania Dutch barn door made in Taiwan, he won the Electoral College votes necessary to assume the office.
Now, while I would rather have a President that I thought was more qualified, and I don’t mind saying that I would like to see his attempts to institute dirty little socialist policies fail, I do hope he succeeds as President.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:06 pm
Obama could have put this story to bed as soon as the Berg Lawsuit was filed in August. He could have submitted the certificate and requested dismissal. Instead he fought this based on issues like ” standing”. More suits filed. Why did he not just end the situation back in August?
Comment by Dennis D (ae900a) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:06 pm
Re: “While I can’t say with any real certainty whether or not Obama (PBUH) is a natural born citizen, I do think that it’s highly suspect that he has spent in excess of $1M to avoid having to provide a $22 document.”
In Hawaii, the document costs $10, and Obama paid for it and posted it. The document is known as a Certification of Live Birth, and it is the ONLY birth certificate that Hawaii issues to people requesting copies of their birth certificates.
How do I know? The answer is that I asked them repeatedly, and the answer has always been: “We send out only the Certification of Live Birth.” You can check, by asking your own questions by e-mail at vr-info@doh.hawaii.gov.
So all the questions about why doesn’t he post the long-form birth certificate have two simple answers:
(1) The Certification of Live Birth is THE official birth certificate, it shows that he was born in Hawaii, and it is legally sufficient to prove it; and
(2) Unless he has kept the original birth certificate and not mislaid it, all that he can post is what Hawaii will send him, which is only the Certification of Live Birth, which is what he has already posted.
Now regarding the “spent in excess of $1M”. That is all baloney. None of the cases were simply about showing Obama’s birth certificate. All of them were about stopping the election, or stopping the certification of the election. In these cases, sometimes the plaintiffs ask to see the original birth certificate, but that is just a small part of the case, and no plaintiff has ever said that if Obama were to post his original birth certificate–which he cannot get since Hawaii will not send it to anyone–the cases would go away.
So, not one cent spent on lawsuits relating to the birth certificate. And Obama HAS posted the official birth certificate.
Comment by smrstrauss (602296) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:07 pm
We don’t want to be petty and be like the Dems with constant attacks? Listen girls and boys. THATS How we LOST both Houses and the Presidency. Constant daily attacks from people like Schumer.
Comment by Dennis D (ae900a) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:07 pm
See thats the difference between you and real Americans
you are worried what the enemy thinks
any person who is “offended” by Coulter or Rush and not at left wing anti -American pro Castro policies wont matter any ways
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:08 pm
#126 allan:
Is that what you call it?
As a sailor, I have to work pretty hard to keep my language reasonably clean…makes it easier though when I just think of it as French.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:10 pm
If you dont fight fire with fire you ‘ll be the one getting burned
the left wing knew race would trump all and thats how they won it
McCain was the best the GOP could offer which shows you how far they have fallen
They couldnt come up with a more libertarian/Reagan type
So the NYTimes “backed” McCain at first cause they figure he’d be the easiest for the Dems to beat
I knew before the primaries Obama would be Clinton as race trumps gender
Whites keep trying to prove how un racist they are instead of saying they dont care and just doing the right thing
and like I stated already, you are the perfect example of why the GOP lost
you worry about what pro Castro types will think of you
get a grip
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:12 pm
Those who wring their hands over whether liberals will like us are why we lost in 2006 and 2008.
Anyone who wants further “moderation” is part of a dead universe and has no place in the struggle to restore the GOP to power and smash socialism in America.
Thinking maybe if we suck up to Obama, his media will stop lying about us?
Sorry folks.
Wake the hell up or get out of the way.
Comment by Obama_Is_The_New_Hitler (5a5d33) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:12 pm
No war was every WON without attacking
what are you a girl???
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:14 pm
As a lifelong conservative christian republican, I am not a girl. Now, I will wake up or get out of the way. May I subscribe to your newsletter?
Comment by carlitos (355c1a) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:18 pm
Re: “Obama could have put this story to bed as soon as the Berg Lawsuit was filed in August. He could have submitted the certificate and requested dismissal. Instead he fought this based on issues like ” standing”. More suits filed. Why did he not just end the situation back in August?”
The Berg case was a request for the court to enjoin Obama from running for president. It was not just about releasing the original birth certificate. (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/1/)
Berg never said “if Obama releases his original birth certificate, this case will go away.”
Comment by smrstrauss (602296) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:20 pm
Sure, it’s like how a peanut does not equal a car.
An economic model does not equal a military organization.
Comment by Pons Asinorum (87c424) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:23 pm
How many wars were won by jumping onto enemy bayonets?
There’s a difference between a smart attack and a foolish one.
Comment by Steverino (a37dd0) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:27 pm
If I was worried about how I look and whether or not I was coming across in a politically correct way, I’d have become a liberal. I can’t believe how many right wingers are letting Mr. Transparency get their panties all in a bunch.
Comment by trentk269 (ce2dd2) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:29 pm
I most definitely should not be handling sharp objects and reading your comments…truly makes convulsive laughter dangerous…
Lemme see now, just apply pressure where its spurting…
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:32 pm
Care to tell me how our Military for example is not socialistic?
By the way, I’m glad to know the Right never focuses on “sound bites”. **Rolling My Eyes**
Comment by Oiram
I was actually going to answer your questions you posted higher in the comments until I came across this typical troll remark.
What in the world are you talking about ? Socialistic ?
The military is made up of government employees who follow rules that have been established by the organization and that are well known to all of them. My son is a fireman. Do you think they vote on who goes to a fire ?
Jeeesus !
Comment by MIke K (f89cb3) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:32 pm
Sure, it’s like how a peanut does not equal a car.
An economic model does not equal a military organization.
Comment by Pons Asinorum — 2/27/2009 @ 1:23 pm
Pons, when the military affects the “economic model”, the peanut starts to look a lot like a car.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:32 pm
By the way, I don’t know if Obama ever contemplated giving up his citizenship but it is moot. Get over it.
I do think that John Kerry probably got a dishonorable discharge in the 70s and his silver star award was reissued with the amnesty that Carter declared. That’s why his medal certificates are all post dated.
That’s moot, too.
Comment by MIke K (f89cb3) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:35 pm
The military is made up of government employees who follow rules that have been established by the organization and that are well known to all of them. My son is a fireman. Do you think they vote on who goes to a fire ?
Jeeesus !
Comment by MIke K — 2/27/2009 @ 1:32 pm
Who pays for them Mike?
Not Jesus
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:36 pm
Notice none of the regular trolls withdrawing their frequent false lament that the “right wing” never criticizes its own?
Comment by SPQR (72771e) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:37 pm
Try this for a sound-bite: The US military (in my opinion) is a Constitutional Delegated Dictatorship. I’ll explain my position more fully if Stashiu3 or Patterico want me to, but I’d rather leave it like that just to rile up the leftists.
Since Obama is working very hard to bring socialism to nearly every aspect of US life, I want him to fail. I do not want the US to fail and that is why I do want Obama to fail. His overarching goals will be the destruction of 230 years of US history and freedom as we know it. His overarching goals will also be the destruction of our economy. I want him to fail.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:39 pm
IN THE MILITARY THEIR ARE DIFFERENT PAY GRADES AND DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITIES UNLIKE THE LEFTIST “DREAM” OF ACORN TYPES GETTING “PAID” WHAT DOCTORS GET PAID
YOU SAY THE MILITARY IS SOCIALIST AS IF THATS AN “ANSWER” OR A “GOTCHA” TO US PRO AMERICANS
HA! THE MILITARY IS RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT HENCE ITS “SOCIALIST” THE REST OF SOCIETY IS NOT NOT SUPPOSE TO BE RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT UNLESS YOU LIKE CUBA which it appears the leftists of this country prefer, yet they wont go move there , interesting
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:43 pm
When you are born, your parents get a copy of the long form birth certificate and the state gets a copy of it.
Hawaii will send him a photocopy of their long form birth certificate on special paper with a raised seal. It’s called a certified copy.
Stop spreading your lies.
Comment by Roy Mustang (776c16) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:44 pm
THE CAPSLOCK BRIGADE HAS ARRIVED.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:48 pm
IF AMERICA IS TO RETURN TO A MERIT BASED SOCIETY OBAMA MUST FAIL, ITS NOT AN OPTION
HIS FAILURE WILL ALLOW MORE LIBERTARIAN THINKERS TO RE-TAKE CONGRESS
IF THE GOP CONTINUES ITS LEFT LEANING WAYS THERE WILL BE A CHANGE IN THAT PARTY
OBAMA IS NOT AMERICA
HE WAS ELECTED BUT SO WAS HITLER AND CASTRO
THAT IN ITSELF DOESNT MAKE HIM LEGIT
YOUNG NAIVE WHITE COLLEGE STUDENTS ALONG WITH ANGRY BLACKS AND A SMATTERING OF “ADULT” WHITES WHO COULDNT STOMACH MCCAINS GARBAGE AND FIGURED THIS WAS A WAY TO GIVE A BLACK MAN A CHANCE
I CAN SEE IT I JUST DONT AGREE WITH IT
IF A WARD CONNERLY OR M STEELE OR LARRY ELDER WERE TO RUN ON A LIBERTARINA PLATFORM THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING FROM A RACIAL STANDPOINT
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:48 pm
One way or another, many of the dem voters in the last election were voting against Bush.
And Bush was a handy target because the dems had demonized him.
Lied, cheated, forged.
Seems to have worked.
So the question is whether esthetics and standards will keep the republicans as the minority party.
I mean, you can pay the price to live with yourself if you wish.
But it doesn’t make much sense to say that an electorate which ate up the dems’ happyhorsehockey with a backhoe will be offended by a lapse in standards on the republican side.
Comment by Richard Aubrey (a9ba34) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:49 pm
You are correct I will try and refrain from use of caps
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:50 pm
I ALWAYS READ EVERY SINGLE WORD OF A CAPSLOCK COMMENT. I NEVER SCROLL PAST A CAPSLOCK COMMENT. THAT’S A LIE.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:50 pm
Lemme see now, just apply pressure where its spurting…
Comment by EW1(SG) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:32 pm
Don’t forget to elevate it above the level of your heart (we are talking about bleeding here, right?
)
John, no need to explain further… my first draft had Totalitarian, but yours is much more accurate. It’s certainly far-removed from Socialist.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:51 pm
#150 It’s interesting to me Jeff, that right wingers like you are more than happy to disproportionately pay less (depending on your economic status) for necessary services that suit your agenda, like the military, fire department, police dept etc. And then consider it non socialistic.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:51 pm
Is that what your point is? That the military is publicly funded and that taxes levied to do that are akin to socialism?
Try this on for size: the government of a free nation with an economy based on capitalism has few legitimate functions. In ours, those functions are explicitly spelled out in the Constitution that forms the “social contract” between the citizens and the “government.” One of the legitimate functions of our government is the collective protection of our citizens and their rights, in particular against foreign aggressors. It is one of the few functions reserved to the federal government because it is so vitally important to our existence as a free nation.
Swear to high heaven, dummerer than a sack of Andrews.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 1:55 pm
I see Mario has created yet another brain-jarringly stupid “fact based” analysis.
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:00 pm
And here I offer a venue for Mario to demonstrate that certain people pay “disproportionately less” for public services, based on their economic status and the relative benefit they derive from such services. If you use actual numbers, I will eat my mouse. If you link data that support your points, I will put on an “Oiram is Great” hat, dance the mambo and post it to youtube.
Please write your facts and data on the following lines. Thanks.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
Comment by carlitos (f9a6d4) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:00 pm
Its time for the parties to change anyways, despite their laws to keep themselves firmly in place
The left wing will fracture as the women and blacks have a huge strain. The white males are too weak to fight either one so they’ll keep their mouths shut
The GOP will try and show resolve but if the 2010 elections dont go their way say because people are upset how many earmarks the GOP left in this year then they too will have a split
AS I said you will get a more libertarian branch
The idea of America doesnt have to die in fact maybe we hit a socialist peak with Obama having been elected
ACORN who is in the news again having formed an “Army” to break into foreclosed homes and live there will scare off yellow dog democrat types
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:00 pm
#157 Stashiu3:
Works for Coke spurts too, don’t it?
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:01 pm
I honestly believe more than half of today’s liberals and moderates and nearly all of today’s “non-political but voter” types are completely ignorant of the precepts codified in the Constitution.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:03 pm
hint – total of all fees paid, including excise taxes, (progressive) income tax rates, property taxes, sales tax, etc.
DIVIDED BY
services received from the government (food stamps, police protection, highway miles, etc.)
Why don’t you do this by quintile, and see how the bottom 20% do vs. the top 20%.
Muchisimas Gracias
Comment by carlitos (f9a6d4) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:03 pm
carlitos,
I will say this about paying less for public service
Those who do are those who are given the money to pay for those services
for example someone who gets food stamps is paying less for a gallon of milk as my hard earned dollar not only pays for my milk but the value of my dollar is lessened by the fact that I am paying for someone elses sevices
If you dont like that example just substitute “milk” for public transportation etc
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:04 pm
Dummerer than a sack of Marios now appears to be more appropriate.
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:05 pm
#160 Too convenient EW that nothing else fits into “Vitally important to our existence as a free nation”.
Education
Health care
Roads
Air Quality
Courts
Fire Department
Police Protection
Only to name a few.
Oh wait, privatizing those services will make everything better right?
How about starting with our Fire Dept.?
You may be smart enough to pay for a private Fire Fighting company to protect your home. Do you trust that your immediate four neighbors will be that smart?
Is the privatized fire dept. going to lend them a hand in time of need?
What are the consequences of them not lending a hand to those who thought they could do without paying them?
Apply those fears to other services provided by your government.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:06 pm
Oiram
So you are saying that volunteer fire depts are no good??
becasue you saying anythng other than a governemnt run entity cant cut it
thats pretty irrational on your part
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:08 pm
I don’t think that, considering what follows, that there is any chance at all that you understand what the phrase that you just used there means. Any of them. (The meanings, that is.)
Because when I read this later:
I realize that you need to go back and repeat middle school history, particularly that part about the Revolutionary War, and you need to do it over and over and over, until you have some glimmer of understanding.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:09 pm
#102 JD, you must be really proud of yourself when throwing insults around without really actually giving any substantive discussion.
You do it so well.
I guess your still sore about me calling you out on your feeble atempts to be obtuse about what earned income really means in order to push your agenda.
Comment by Oiram — 2/27/2009 @ 11:30 am
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:09 pm
Here’s a question. Which is more economical? Buying Mario brains at a dollar a peck or buying Mario brains at a dime a gross?
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:10 pm
Funny, Che and Pancho Villa and Castro are all adored by the left wing
Now the left wing adores Obama
just a thought
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:11 pm
#170 EW, you need to go back to simple 3rd grade math class, if you think that a war as large as the one we’ve undertaken can be fought without raising taxes.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:12 pm
Mario is arguing with the voices in its head again.
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:12 pm
What is most interesting is that people who support a left wing agenda want to change a place like America to suie their selfish needs when places that they like are all over the world
They complain we’re not enough like Cuba of Europe etc but wouldnt move there and leave those of us who like a free country to stay free
they must have mommy and daddy issues ‘)
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:14 pm
It’s ALWAYS been obvious that the left and right both have wingnuts.
It’s human nature. There’s always a few who get into politics as a matter of identity. Any threat to their ideology is a deeply felt threat to their self-esteem. And worse, there’s a layer of people who make careers out of feeding these insatiable insecurities: yes, I’m talking about Rush Limbaugh and the conservative commentary complex.
The left has the same fringe, just no one as successful as Rush/Fox TV at monetizing it.
Conservatives who are despondent that wingnuts seem to have taken over their movement should know that the exact same argument raged on the left back when the GOP owned the legislative and executive branches and had a long-term lease on the judicial.
Back before the outrage against Bush reached the tipping point, liberals were beside themselves trying to figure out how to isolate the “Free Mumia” and “9/11 Truther” crowd from the mainstream, which just wanted the Iraq war ended and a little more fiscal responsibility (the real kind, not the Reagan magical realism kind)
I weighed in at the time, not that it mattered, with the view that there was no point to worry about trying to brighten or clarify the dividing lines between left wingnuts and mainstream liberals. And I would offer exactly the same advice to conservatives.
Never adjust your political message to counter the wingnuts in the opposition.
In the liberals case, the wingnut opposition was in full control of Fox and a powerful string of talkradio shows, so, on the surface at least, there seemed to be cause for concern.
People like Marc Cooper lived in constant fear that someone was going to call them a Stalinist or, even more risible, that they might at some point lose a debate with the likes of Sean Hannity on that basis.
But the obvious reality is that right wingnuts will call any liberal and every liberal a Stalinist. I believe the term at this particular site is “dirty socialist,” which adds a nice Freudian touch, but is exactly the same brand of paranoia.
Likewise, lefty wingnuts will call every conservative a fascist thug, regardless of any and all attempt by the conservative to convey nuance.
So it shall always be.
I think Pat’s right to hold up CPAC for ridicule, but I don’t think it needs to be a big a big issue for Republicans going forward.
The party will never rid itself of wingnuts and doesn’t really need to.
Note that once Obama started pulling ahead and support for Bush and the war in Iraq dwindled into the 30 percent range, the wingnut issue just evaporated on the left. When you’re winning, nobody cares that you’ve got a few nutcases at the back of the bus.
Look how much success the GOP had in the past two decades. And all that time, the exact same fringe of paranoid homophobic bigots were stinking up their pup tent.
Now, the GOP is clearly a minority party and needs to fight its way back.
Lastly, I would say that sites like this can potentially be part of the problem.
For me, posting here is liking stepping into the ring against a little band of K-1 fighters.
I know that anything I post will receive the utmost negative scrutiny. That’s good. I love that. It’s why I’m here.
One dude has even taken to searching the Web for comments I’ve made on other sites and fetches them up here for reconsideration.
I couldn’t pay enough for someone to provide that kind of service.
Meanwhile, while I’m in the ring giving and taking the blows, the Whine Club is laying around giving each other foot massages. What good is that?
Comment by Hax Vobiscum (edacf7) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:15 pm
Here’s a question. Which is more economical? Buying Mario brains at a dollar a peck or buying Mario brains at a dime a gross?
Comment by John Hitchcock — 2/27/2009 @ 2:10 pm
Here’s what satisfies me:
Glad to know that the collective brains (Mine included) in this room are not actually in charge of making government decisions.
Good Day All
I need to get off work (“slushie machine” if that’s what is needed to make you all snicker) so I can bring my wife to the doctor.
Comment by Oiram (983921) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:17 pm
oiram
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:20 pm
The dynamic duo of douchenozzlery re-appears.
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:24 pm
I’m getting a little tired of your sheer bullheaded stupidity.
Of the items you listed, only one merits Constitutional mention. Now, if you weren’t stupid, you might just wonder why the leading thinkers of the day, with thousands of years of human history to draw upon, thought none of the others important enough to mention…and why, since then, nobody else has thought the oversight serious enough to merit the Constitutional Convention necessary to rectify it.
Further, you are attempting to argue libertarian philosophical points in a room full of conservatives~illustrating that yet again, you have all the smarts that the Lord gave a block of granite.
The reason for the omission at the federal level, ie, in the Constitution, is that the Founding Fathers, who were students of history, recognized that the concerns you bring up are in fact better handled at a local level. That’s why my town and the next over share a fire department…but we don’t share a fire department with Los Angeles or Missouri, because that wouldn’t make sense. And neither do the rest of your comments.
One other thing. Since military protection is a legitimate function of the government in protecting the nation state, all citizens are obligated to contribute to the levy necessary to maintain that protection. But in this country at this time in our history, there are plenty of people who ride along for free because they don’t pay any federal income taxes~which is socialistic. A more realistic alternative would be to require them to substitute service for the levy…but I’ll tell you right now that the military doesn’t want them.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:28 pm
It’s ALWAYS been obvious that the left and right both have wingnuts.
I try not to respond to trolls but this one merits on because he makes that statement and then goes on at great length to prove it.
We need a better class of trolls.
Comment by Mike K (8df289) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:38 pm
I’m sure those leftists like Mario didn’t and won’t follow the link to the Constitution. And I’m certain they won’t follow the link to that Declaration thingie, both of which I readily link on my own sub-standard blog.
I mean, if you want to honestly debate what our country should look like, you should at least know what those two documents say. And I would strongly suggest buying and reading The Federalist Papers. But reading those three things would force liberals to either admit to themselves they are wrong or admit to themselves they hate every concept that was espoused at the founding of this great nation.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:38 pm
The bottom line is that socialism is not good for a an economy that bases itself on merit
SOCIALISM NEEDS CAPITALISM TO LEECH OFF OF BUT CAPITALISM DOES NOT NEED SOCIALISM
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:40 pm
Has he left that Partridge family gig? And who does he stay so young looking — hair dye?
Comment by horace (a846c8) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:43 pm
Like I said, not a f*cking clue what kind of difference that “a” makes in the meaning instead of an “e.”
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:44 pm
http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | Dr. Patrick Chavis is dead. Will the liberal politicians and gullible media who made him a poster boy for government-imposed affirmative action shed a single tear, or will they continue to ignore what a shameful tragedy his life became?
According to a Los Angeles County Sheriff’s detective I spoke with last week, Chavis was murdered on the night of July 23 in Hawthorne, an economically depressed neighborhood on the southern edge of Los Angeles. Three unknown assailants shot him during an alleged robbery at a Foster’s Freeze. They remain on the loose. The news has yet to be reported anywhere else, but sources told me it was the buzz of the Los Angeles medical community last week.
Seven years ago, Chavis became the toast of the media elite and the racial preference crowd when he was profiled lavishly by New York Times magazine writer Nicholas Lehmann. Chavis, who made the cover of the magazine, was a black physician admitted to the University of California-Davis medical school under a special racial-preference quota. In 1978, the U.S. Supreme Court later struck down the program after a landmark challenge by white applicant Allan Bakke. Lehmann contrasted what he considered Bakke’s unremarkable career following the lawsuit with Chavis’ noble and booming ob-gyn practice in the ghetto of Compton.
Three months later, Jane Fonda’s ex-husband, left-wing California politico Tom Hayden, heaped praise on Chavis in defense of affirmative action. “Bakke’s scores were higher,” Hayden wrote in an article for The Nation, “but who made the most of his medical school education? From whom did California taxpayers benefit more?” Sen. Ted Kennedy picked up the banner a year later, calling Chavis “a perfect example” of the need for lowering admissions standards in the name of racial diversity. The doctor, Kennedy crowed, was “making a difference in the lives of scores of poor families.”
What the New York Times never got around to reporting, as JWR columnist Jeff Jacoby first noted and journalist William McGowan later chronicled in his award-winning book Coloring the News, is that the “difference” Chavis made in the lives of several young black women involved gruesome pain-and death-as a result of botched “body sculpting” operations at his clinic.
An administrative law judge found Chavis guilty of gross negligence and incompetence in the treatment of three patients. Yolanda Mukhalian lost 70 percent of her blood after Chavis hid her in his home for 40 hours following a bungled liposuction; she miraculously survived. The other survivor, Valerie Lawrence, also experienced severe bleeding following the surgery; after Lawrence’s sister took her to a hospital emergency room, Chavis barged in and discharged his suffering patient-still hooked up to her IV and catheter-and also stashed her in his home.
Tammaria Cotton bled to death and suffered full cardiac arrest after Chavis performed fly-by-night liposuction on her and then disappeared.
In 1998, the Medical Board of California suspended Chavis’ license, warning of his “inability to perform some of the most basic duties required of a physician.” In a statement filed by a psychiatrist, the state demonstrated Chavis’ “poor impulse control and insensitivity to patients’ pain.” A tape recording of “horrific screaming” by patients in Chavis’ office revealed the doctor responding callously: “Don’t talk to the doctor while he is working” and “Liar, liar, pants on fire.”
If Allan Bakke, the white doctor, had engaged in such disgraceful behavior and met such an ignominious end, you can bet the Left would never let us forget it.
But Ted Kennedy and Tom Hayden, who spoke so voluminously about the poor black patients who supposedly benefited from medical affirmative action, had nothing to say about the poor black women who were brutally victimized by the incompetent Chavis. As for the New York Times, Bill McGowan wrote: They “ran nothing to amend their false portrait of an affirmative action hero, or question the legitimacy of the race-conscious social policy that had made him a doctor. A riveting, nationally newsworthy story central to the country’s discussion of racial preferences somehow ended up completely falling through the cracks.”
Will the Times editors bother to run an obituary about their fallen affirmative action hero? Will Ted Kennedy send his condolences?
Don’t hold your breath.
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 2:58 pm
After much trollery, my offer stands ignored. Color me surprised.
This site should have a Hax enema, just to admire the Vobiscum in the ‘viewing tube’
Comment by carlitos (f9a6d4) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:14 pm
that link doesn’t work
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:21 pm
Can’t take the truth eh?
Comment by winston (60daac) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:26 pm
#183 John Hitchcock:
I think its more fundamental, and a great deal simpler than that.
I think impossible for them to grasp that somebody else has already thought about these things, that they aren’t the first to do so. To admit that would mean that they aren’t really all that “special,” that the Universe doesn’t really revolve around them.
Personally, I prefer an atheist with a sense of history than a braindead leftie.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:26 pm
I need to get off work
And with that brave retort, Sir Robin of Assalot beats a hasty retreat once again, holding his light sabre at a direct right angle to his arsehole. Facts? Proof? Ha! They do not matter to Brave Sir Robin, and he must always attend to family matters first when confronted with those pesky things. Run, Forrest, Runnnnn!
Comment by Dmac (49b16c) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:27 pm
#189 happyfeet:
Which one, happyfeet?
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:28 pm
#192 Dmac:
Funny. That’s what I keep telling my rather rotund rodent.
Doesn’t seem help much though. He’s just a tiny, spherical furball.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:30 pm
And we wonder why Republicans and Conservatives are in the wilderness? This is not effective. What a bunch of friggin retards. Do they have any sense at CPAC?
Comment by Joe (dcebbd) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:42 pm
Thanks Carlitos! John and daleyrocks appear to be offline, so I guess the Club has to rely on you to deliver the homoerotic fantasy.
Comment by Hax Vobiscum (23258e) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:44 pm
Here comes huckster, infatuated with his 15 milimeters of fame again.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:48 pm
It is a liar. Plain and simple. And it is the only one that ever talks about homoerotic fantasies. I thought Leftists were supposed to be tolerant, yet they always seem to start calling people names, like homo. I personally have no issues with homosexuals. Why are you a homophobe, Hacks?
Comment by JD (78e5f4) — 2/27/2009 @ 3:56 pm
Talk about projection. The only people I know of who do the enema thing are vapid celebrities with too much time and money on there hands. What a maroon. My finding of its comments as purely scatalogical is gender and sexuality-neutral.
Comment by carlitos (20f623) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:02 pm
Ugh. Excuse multiple spelling errors.
Comment by carlitos (20f623) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:04 pm
oh. it was Jeff’s newsandopinion.com link about the affirmative action doctor what the NYT thought was neato but hurt and killed people and then got murdered in the hood recently.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:15 pm
It seems our resident lying unprincipled liar troll is using tuck-and-run tactics lately.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:23 pm
yeah that link was goofy
its easy to find if you just google malkin and chavis
good story nonetheless and really an insight into the lefts air-headed ventures into hate
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:24 pm
Do any of you people know what Socialism is? If you know what the dictionary definition is, how can you say that pumping money into,say, the private sector with infrastructure projects, or banks to shore them up is in any way Socialism?
Comment by Dan (214309) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:25 pm
got it, Jeff. oh. It wasn’t all that recently like I said.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:30 pm
Don’t be disingenuous on a Friday afternoon, Dan. It’s tedious.
Comment by happyfeet (71f55e) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:32 pm
wwnmf9B@patterico.com
Comment by To: 7Qht@oGx.com From: iSu@5a8.com Subject: mfst***wUFFu7Ya Bcc: ifndefendif@aol.com wUFFu7Ya . (82a6d5) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:38 pm
GHBbUo@patterico.com
Comment by mfst***NpkaSdJO (82a6d5) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:38 pm
k08bnwGU@patterico.com
Comment by ifndefendif@aol.com (82a6d5) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:38 pm
8xWmNrOs@patterico.com
Comment by T5ccvtW@patterico.com (82a6d5) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:38 pm
I don’t think that there was anything wrong with what Bolton said, per se. He was talking about how Obama considered Iran a tiny threat, but saying that it wouldn’t be a tiny threat if Iran could launch a nuclear missile attack on Chicago.
That doesn’t mean that Bolton was approving the possibility of an attack on Chicago. (That would be a big problem for me given that I live in Chicago.)
Bolton may have chosen Chicago as a reference because it is Obama’s home, but the implication to me was something like “Obama wouldn’t want Iran to attack his hometown, but he is naive and ignores the possibility that someday Iran might be able to attack his hometown.”
Comment by Joshua (9ede0e) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:46 pm
Comment by Dan — 2/27/2009 @ 4:25 pm
Ok, how about “kleptocracy” — rule by theft for the benefit of big city mayors and big Obama donors?
Comment by nk (da8e61) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:48 pm
Sorry, but I want Our Lord and Savior Barack Hussein Obama to fail. Miserably. Colossally. On as grand a scale as possible. He’s a socialist, a Marxist and if He succeeds, most Americans will suffer irreparable damage.
I want Him to be as colossal a failure as Jimmy Carter if not more so. Why? So Americans will never vote the likes of Him into power.
Comment by Peter (92c60c) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:49 pm
There’s very little daylight between the attitudes expressed on these videos and the views expressed by this blog’s regular commentariat.
It just sounds worse when you watch it uttered on screen.
This is the Republican party blogs like this helped fashion.
Indeed. Which is why I posted the post I did, and why virtually all of the regular commentariat agreed with me.
If you talk out of your ass on other topics the way you talk out of your ass about my blog, you’re going to look really stupid to a lot of people. Just a friendly piece of advice.
Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:54 pm
No seriously, smellyfeet. Explain it to me.
Comment by Dan (214309) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:55 pm
What did Ann Coulter say last year at CPAC that was so bad?
Nothing.
She wasn’t officially invited.
Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:57 pm
Carville and Begala have put together an ad that tags Rush Limbaugh as the face of the Republican party.
The ad ends with:
“So who are the Republicans listening to?”
Cut to video of Limbaugh:
“I want him to fail.”
Priceless.
AFSCME’s paying for it along with some 527k money.
That’s another thing the GOP’s going to have to wake up to. They no longer have a fund-raising advantage.
Even Wall Street (those dirty, dirty, dirty socialists!) doesn’t go for the GOP any more…
Comment by Hax Vobiscum (23258e) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:57 pm
Hey, Dan. How about you go back to huff Poe or huff glue or whatever it is you huff?
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:58 pm
Everyone attack Rush!
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 4:59 pm
That is correct Peter
we are not cowed by left wing soundbites WE SAY PROUDLY WE WANT SOCIALISM TO FAIL
IF THE NAME IS OBAMA OR CLINTON OR BUSH AND THEY PROMOTE SOCIALISM..THEN WE WANT THEM TO FAIL
SOCIALISM =ANTI FREEDOM
ANTI FREEDOM= ANTI AMERICAN
NOW GO BACK TO BOWING TO YOUR CASTRO DOLL YET YOU WOULD NEVER GO LIVE IN CUBA, WONDER WHY!! LOL
Comment by Jeff (3983e6) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:09 pm
Even Wall Street (those dirty, dirty, dirty socialists!) doesn’t go for the GOP any more…
They don’t give a shit, troll. They make money in a bear market or a bull market and they give politicians $5.00 to give them back $100.00.
Comment by nk (da8e61) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:12 pm
As JD would say-capslock is cruise control to cool, baby. As the joke goes – who’s we, kemosabe?
Comment by carlitos (bb9729) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:12 pm
CAPSLOCK IS A HUGE BRAIN DRAIN SO LETS ALL USE CAPSLOCK AND DRAIN OUR BRAINS
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:13 pm
Kincaid & Bolton have got to be DOLTS!
Comment by Hitchcock (c58ce9) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:18 pm
C’mon, John. This is more gleenitis. Don’t you think?
Comment by Eric Blair (8d54e0) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:19 pm
Does anybody else find Jeff a bit larger-than-life? Like he’s trying too hard? The tired references to Castro again and again, the “real American” vs “ANTI AMERICAN” all-caps, trying to avoid Bush-bashing but not quite succeeding, and wildly fluctuating moods are creepy.
Libertarian?
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:19 pm
Stash, I think a sock drawer inventory is in order.
Comment by Eric Blair (8d54e0) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:20 pm
Oh, I love how some idiot has chosen to use part of my moniker to make a statement. How brave of it.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:21 pm
Has to be done by Patterico or someone with keys. I’ve learned a bit how to read the sitemeter info, but not on a site with lots of traffic like this. I think you’re right though, lots of sock-odor recently and this could definitely be one.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:25 pm
Dan – Do enlighten us about socialism. Us soimple little hix dew knot no wut thet iz.
Comment by JD (37536f) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:34 pm
Re: “Hawaii will send him a photocopy of their long form birth certificate on special paper with a raised seal. It’s called a certified copy.”
No. Hawaii will not send a certified copy of the original with a raised seal. It will send ONLY a Certification of Live Birth, which also has a raised seal. But the Certification is not a copy, it is a summary of the original document.
How do I know this? Because that is what the Department of Health of Hawaii tells me. If you do not believe me, you can check. You can check, by asking your own questions by e-mail at vr-info@doh.hawaii.gov.
Here is some more confirmation:
A posting from Andrew Walden, publisher of the Hawaii Free Press, a right-wing blog based in Hawaii.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/main/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/92/Barack-Obama-Born-in-Hawaii.aspx
Barack Obama: Born in Hawai`i
by Andrew Walden
It is time to focus on REAL issues, not imaginary ones.
A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense, which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama’s upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama’s numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.
Obama’s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama’s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement.
End Quote
What he is saying is that in Hawaii everyone gets the Certification of Live Birth. What the Department of Health of Hawaii tells me, and you can check at the e-mail address I gave above, is that it sends only only the Certification of Live Birth.
Comment by smrstrauss (602296) — 2/27/2009 @ 5:50 pm
I admire your attention to detail, and your tenacity.
But these guys are nutz.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:00 pm
Grow Up. I hope Obama and his socialist policies fail too. Obama may not be a freaking citizen and John Bolton is a thoughtful and intelligent man. Conservatives need to grow a pair and just let it all hang out man. Even at our wackiest we are still 10 times saner than liberals. And Ann Coulter, can’t wait, she rocks!
Comment by Infidel (9d1bb3) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:03 pm
Bolton’s statements were childish and do not benefit the Republican party at all.
Comment by Andrew (96ab30) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:04 pm
Republicans? Oh. Those John McCain people. I remember them.
Comment by happyfeet (bf7f5a) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:08 pm
Andy, did you find that JFK quote I left you here? If you didn’t, it’s on my blog. Since JFK was most definitely a Democrat, you might not want to read the words he said.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:09 pm
Cyrus Sanai, with reference to your #57, let me translate Patterico’s #219 to clearer english:
You are full of crap.
Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:10 pm
Planes ran into the WTC on live television, and hundreds of people saw a plane hit the Pengaton. Another plane crashed in PA with recordings of what happened. Passengers on all crashed planes made phone calls which were recorded. Passengers’ remains have been matched and confirmed with DNA where possible. Yet, there is a ‘just asking questions’ movement, alive and well after 8 years.
This birth-certificate crap needs to die now, if for nothing else than to prevent its growth over time, and future impressionable youths falling into this sort of paranoid nonsense. The guy was sworn in – as the saying goes – “move on.”
Upon further review, I didn’t find the Bolton thing that offensive, but the birth certificate comment (and applause) is really embarrassing.
The illogic of conspiracy theories is a mental disorder of the first rate, and a scathing indictment of our educational system’s lack of emphasis on reason.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:10 pm
Bolton wasn’t speaking at a gathering of Republicans; he was at CPAC, a gathering of conservatives. If you’d like a gathering of Republicans, try crashing the nearest country club.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (11d01b) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:10 pm
This birth-certificate crap needs to die now
What does that mean? Only that you’d rather not know more about an elected politician. I suppose you thought it impossible that former New York Governor Elliot Spitzer would patronize a pro, or that New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey turned out to be gay. Did you advise people that rumors about those things needed to die now, or they’ll think you’re crazy?
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (11d01b) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:24 pm
oiad, the things you posted cite the actions of politicians. Questioning Obama’s very birth, 47 years after the fact, ignoring all obvious evidence of such, has nothing to do with his actions. He is. Paraphrasing Cicero – Civis Americanus Est.
He was a politician in Illinois for 20 years or so. He was elected President and sworn in on global television. There is nothing he can do to assuage your questions, which is why I liken it to 9/11 trutherism and rightfully call it a mental disorder.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:38 pm
Notice none of the regular trolls withdrawing their frequent false lament that the “right wing” never criticizes its own?
That willingness to criticize its own is one of this blog’s most attractive features. Patterico and his readers stand for principles, and are willing to condemn departures from those principles even among fellow conservatives. Quite a refreshing change from the duckspeaking “No enemies to the left” mantra of those like bunkertroll.
Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:39 pm
well said, carlitos.
Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:40 pm
oiad = oido
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:42 pm
None of that stuff has anything to do with the issue of whether he’s a natural born citizen. A computer-generated image on a website is not evidence. It’s a picture. They drew you a picture, that’s all.
And it’s laughable that you’d attempt to buttress your argument with the silly statement that Obama was sworn in on global television. So was Martin Sheen!
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (11d01b) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:45 pm
If conservatives are going to clean out their closet, there’s a number of rotted corpses they should be tossing.
Are the birth-certificate hallucinations any more paranoid or delusional than the stuff about Obama being a Muslim, or a terrorist sympathizer, or, a “socialist?” and half a dozen others?
My Top 5 Rotting-Corpse Wingnut Shibboleth Disposal candidates would be:
1. Saddam was linked to Al Qaeda.
2. There really were WMD in Iraq, or, we really believed it and belief is more important than reality, or, we never cared about WMD, it was all about paving the way for Moqtada al-Sadr to win a seat in a Potemkin election.
3. The Bush depression is Clinton’s fault, and/or Barney Frank’s, and/or Jimmy Carter’s, and/or Joseph Stalin’s.
4. Dissent equals disloyalty. Right-wingers can slag any and every institution in America as weak, or gay or feminine or dysfunctional and it’s no problem. When liberals dare to criticize, it’s hatred of their country, “Blame America” and so on.
5. The news media, entertainment world, academia and the Supreme Court are engaged in a liberal conspiracy with magical powers to convince average Americans that the above are not gospel truth.
Comment by Hax Vobiscum (23258e) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:50 pm
My entire stock portfolio is just a “picture” on my screen after all. I’m sure some charlatan could start a movement that it didn’t exist.
If I were you, I’d spend my energy elsewhere.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:51 pm
Imagine though… What if people found out that our dirty socialist president what is demolishing the good faith and credit of our little country and creating vast swaths of dependency destroying the private sector was actually not a for real US citizen person? Gosh I bet that would make them mad.
Comment by happyfeet (bf7f5a) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:51 pm
So was Martin Sheen!
A fictional television program has no bearing on the real-life swearing-in of a president. Or are you implying the latter also was fictional?
Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:52 pm
It’s OK. It’s April Fool’s Year. Next year they’ll do better, I’m sure.
Comment by Xrlq (62cad4) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:52 pm
There goes bunkertroll/Hax being bigoted again:
Right-wingers can slag any and every institution in America as weak, or gay or feminine or dysfunctional and it’s no problem.
There’s bunkerbuster/Hax blatantly telling right-wingers to discriminate against gays and women! he has “no problem” with that!
Why is bunkertroll/Hacks a homophobe and misogynist?
Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 2/27/2009 @ 6:58 pm
Put another way, if the president of the united states mailed OIDO his birth certificate, what would happen? The same thing as if the ghosts of Barbara Olson, Mohammad Atta and Todd Beamer took Dylan Avery on a ‘truther carol’ for a night, showing him the planning, execution and aftermath of 9/11.
Nothing, in other words.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:04 pm
if the president of the united states mailed OIDO his birth certificate, what would happen?
I’d sell it to the National Enquirer, and retire.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office (11d01b) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:09 pm
Bradley, because that’s the essence of the left-wing troll. Festering anger. Usually completely disconnected from actual issues and principles – the principles are almost always post hoc rationalizations for the unfocused anger.
Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:10 pm
#250 Official Internet Data Office:
I invite your attention to Stashiu’s post above, #84~in particular, the second line:
As I mentioned earlier, I have never ever heard anyone question the citizenship of his mother…ergo, President Obama is a natural born citizen.
Case closed.
There are many reasons to question his qualifications to be President, and many questions about whether or not he is a good citizen that could be asked, but the status of his citizenship is no more in question than Senator John McCain’s.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:14 pm
#259 SPQR:
An excellent distillation of such! Well said.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:16 pm
Sad video.
As a former Democrat, it depresses me that there is no party that espouses values of fiscal conservatism and live and let live. When conservatives let it all hang out like this, they hurt themselves terribly. The Tea Party movement is the best thing they’ve got going, and they don’t know it.
Comment by Patricia (89cb84) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:51 pm
I think John Adams had something to say about events of today.
Comment by John Hitchcock (fb941d) — 2/27/2009 @ 7:56 pm
Hax, sorry, but we cannot know that there weren’t WMDs in Iraq. Our intelligence was almost surely faulty in part — ours along with the rest of the world’s; I guess partisan fools like you would like to say “never trust intelligence, even if its conclusions are shared by all our allies worldwide” — but there were nearly two YEARS during which Saddam could have shipped WMD materiel out of country before the invasion. That doesn’t prove he had WMDs, but gosh.
Imagine if you suspect your son, who’s used marijuana in his bedroom numerous times before, to be using it once again. So you say, “LISTEN, MISTER. In TWO YEARS, I’m COMIN’ IN THERE.” Two years later, you indeed come on in, and you don’t find any marijuana.
Morons like you consider this proof that there never was any marijuana up there.
Riiiiiiiiiiight, as Dr. Evil would say.
Comment by Mitch (444e24) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:27 pm
“Birth-certificate trutherism and intimating that nuking Chicago might not be all bad (and that is the intimation, even if he was attempting to be humorous) is not reasonable or helpful. The Republican Party just made it even more unlikely that I’d rejoin… I doubt I’m alone.”
Stashiu3 -Yes lets see oh the earth is warming horribly fast and huge storms are going to kill everyone unless we spend the next three generations into starvation. And Obama and Gore and all the other clown democrats aren’t trying to be humorous. So if that is who you are voting stop voting because you are pathetic and stupid.
Comment by Richard Rhodes (fd83ef) — 2/27/2009 @ 8:36 pm
Perhaps you should get to know people before insulting them Richard. I left the Republican Party because it wasn’t representing conservatives. They talk fiscal-responsibility and small government, but spend like Democrats and keep expanding government.
When the GOP starts walking the conservative walk again, I’ll reconsider. Until then, I vote the person and their policies, not a party that refuses to stand up for what they state are their core values.
Now, read the comments and see how thoroughly the birth-certificate nonsense has been debunked again. Then read my comment after the one you quoted where I pointed out that if Bolton wasn’t intimating that, there is no joke and nobody would have laughed. Trying to spin it later by saying that Bolton was just pointing out how Chicago could be a target and President Obama wasn’t taking it seriously enough just doesn’t fly. If that’s what he clearly meant, there’s no humor… nobody would laugh because that’s a serious point, not a punchline.
Pointing out that these things are not helpful to conservatives does not make me a liberal and I certainly hold no truck with Gore (or President Obama’s policies). This comment earlier in the thread might give you a better idea of my position as I explained it to one of our liberal visitors. Now, if you just came to pick a fight, fine… you win. If you came to talk, that’s fine too. Your choice.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:05 pm
Stashiu3: I don’t see any reason to believe that Bolton was trying to use an attack on Chicago as a punchline, even though some of the audience members seem to have interpreted it that way. Note that Bolton’s very next comment is “A threat to the safety of any American is a threat to our nation.” This would mean that a threat to Chicago is a threat to the whole country. That is obviously not a joke and nobody laughed at it. They applauded, probably because they admired Bolton’s resoluteness.
From the clip as a whole there is nothing to suggest that Bolton himself viewed an attack on Chicago with humor.
Comment by Joshua (320a14) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:21 pm
Pablo #124
Was it un-American to want Bush to fail?
More like was it un-American to desperately want Bush to succeed (healthy forests initiative notwithstanding)?
wayne # 63 Ok well… I thought the clips Patterico put up were nutty but after reading Wayne’s comment I realized that they were just jokes (as Joco pointed out). Wayne’s comment is nutty. The problem with those “jokes” is that they feed the nuttiness of the Waynes in this country. Although I suppose reading the phone book would probably feed the nuttiness of the Waynes in this country. (“you SEE the BLUE Government pages are in the MIDDLE of the phone book which represents the LIBERALS trying to DIVIDE teh people of THIS GREAT NATION!!!!!!! WE ARE AT WAR with the LIBERALS and they must be defeated!!!! Just as soon as we decide who they are!!!!!!”).
Maybe a little less Glenn Beck for some people.
Comment by EdWood (cac2a5) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:40 pm
Fair enough Joshua. I think using Chicago as an example was a “dig” at Obama and poor judgment, but that is admittedly with benefit of hindsight. I like John Bolton and know he doesn’t think a nuke on Chicago is a joke or has an upside, but the pause suggests that he knew it was a dig. As you say, his next line is very responsible and solidifies a very solid point, but we’re not going to see that part in most of the media. Most are going to cut right at the laughter. We’ll see if he’s treated fairly or if this turns out to be an own-goal.
If Kincaid hadn’t trotted out the birth-certificate trutherism, it would be a non-issue. Instead, it can now be portrayed as a pattern. That bit of derangement lowered the benefit-of-the-doubt threshold for Bolton and all the other speakers.
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:46 pm
The Chicago Tea Party looked as good as a “conservative” protest can look. Of course, there were a few kooks, and I saw an obama “progress” sign with a hitler ‘stache. Even so, if you can get 500 people in this town to show up downtown on Friday lunchtime with little notice, maybe there is something to this movement.
Comment by carlitos (3e7004) — 2/27/2009 @ 9:57 pm
Mitch: you sound very confused. If Saddam shipped the WMD out, as you claim he may have, then, at some point prior to the invasion, he no longer had them.
Beyond that, after all the interrogations, “enhancements,” i.e. torture, included, don’t you think there would be at least one case where someone involved in shipping these WMD out would talk?
How could Saddam have shipped them out without a single living person finding out about it?
And among the people who would surely know when, how and where Saddam shipped the WMD out, what in the world would prevent them from talking?
If there was any case at all to be made for the presence of WMD, the wingnutosphere wouldn’t have shifted to the position that the war was actually about converting Iraq to a democracy. They’d have stuck with the WMD excuse, which has the benefit of being focus-group tested for popularity.
Comment by Hax Vobiscum (23258e) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:19 pm
I wouldn’t get too upset about this, Senator Obama got a lot of laughs out of the hate mongers on the left with his “lipstick on a pig” line. This is just political theater.
On the other hand, remarks like that just raise emotion levels and do little to promote substantial debate on the issues. You would think both sides would be working together at a time like this.
Comment by tyree (99cbce) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:19 pm
“CPAC: Is This the Image Republicans Want to Project?”
Yes, it is. And project it they will.
Comment by Viva 1980! (173c60) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:46 pm
Viva, think you could vague that up a bit for us?
Comment by Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 2/27/2009 @ 10:49 pm
Is This the Image Republicans Want to Project?
I’ve become so desensitized by the nonsense and idiocy spouted off by those around Obama and the left in general — by the rantings of Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton, Michael Moore, etc — that I have a tough time raising an eyebrow when it comes to some flippant comments from a group of conservatives/Republicans.
And I do admit to not feeling warm and fuzzy over the idea of Obama doing wonders to America’s economy and, in turn, the finances of my family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, and, of course, myself personally. That’s because the notion of “if the guy in the White House is successful — and he’s MY president too! (xoxoxo) — then the glorious nation that is the USA also is successful” seems more like a case of “lying down with dogs and waking up with fleas.” Or, better yet, a case of spending a night with a hooker — and enjoying the cheap thrills (wow, Obama has such charisma!!!) for all they’re worth — and eventually coming down with a major infestation of crabs and a dose of STDs.
However, I won’t evoke the concept of “making a pact with the devil” because that sounds a bit too much like the rantings from the mouth of our president’s — MY president’s (xoxoxo) — former close advisor and spiritual leader, Jeremiah Wright.
Comment by Mark (411533) — 2/27/2009 @ 11:34 pm
#264 Mitch:
The long declassified DIA report to Congress detailing the recovery of over 500 chemical WMDs between late 2003 and early 2005 is, however.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/28/2009 @ 3:11 am
The long declassified DIA report to Congress detailing the recovery of over 500 chemical WMDs between late 2003 and early 2005 is, however.
There is no such report because there weren’t any WMD.
Comment by Steve J. (44fbb7) — 2/28/2009 @ 3:52 am
And you are full of shit.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 2/28/2009 @ 3:54 am
Georges Sada is not living? It must be the being dead that’s preventing him from talking. Or, maybe not.
Another “fact” hack from the Community Based Reality.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 2/28/2009 @ 6:40 am
Re: “A computer-generated image on a website is not evidence. It’s a picture. They drew you a picture, that’s all.”
That is true. However, it is somewhat better than previous presidents, who never showed anything. Did anyone ever see the official birth certificate (and Obama’s Certification of Live Birth is the only official birth document Hawaii issues these days) of FDR, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Eisenhower, Taft, or either of the two Bushes?
Moreover, the officials in Hawaii looked into Obama’s file and said that they saw an original birth certificate in the file. This, some on the right say, could have been a Kenyan birth certificate, or an amended Hawaiian birth certificate (originally saying “Kenya,” changed then to “Hawaii,” I presume).
But this cannot be. So long as we assume that the officials in Hawaii were loyal citizens (and there were three of them involved, the two top officials and the clerk), then they could not have seen something that indicated birth other than in Hawaii and not said anything. By not saying anything, if there had been anything unusual about the place of birth, they would have been disloyal, part of a fraud, and subject to legal action and potential loss of their jobs under a REPUBLICAN administration.
Since they said nothing other than they saw a birth certificate officially, and told members of the press off-the-record that it was of course an Hawaiian birth certificate, we have reasonable evidence that he was born in Hawaii.
Also, there is not the slightest evidence that he was born in Kenya. Listen again to the complete grandmother tape in which (at about the 5:00 mark) she says born in Hawaii, America.
To hear the full recording of the Obama grandmother interview, go to: ?” http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/independent-grandmother-transcript/ (Click on full Sarah Obama Tape.)
Comment by smrstrauss (602296) — 2/28/2009 @ 7:37 am
Bolton’s statements were childish and do not benefit the Republican party at all.
Stated by the commenter who rarely uses any sources to back up his many inaccurate economic statements. But no matter, please continue.
Comment by Dmac (49b16c) — 2/28/2009 @ 7:37 am
Republicans need to simply keep calling Brakabama a Nazi war criminal and they can sail into office just like the current crop of demonrats.
Comment by ccoffer (a131b0) — 2/28/2009 @ 7:45 am
Looking at the videos and reading your text causes me to experience a sense of dislocations. You have tried to make their emphasis different than was their intent and have thereby mischaracterized what was said. Shame on you. It makes me wonder if you don’t have too much unresolved anger about some of these people and issues for you to be able to comment in a fair manner.
Comment by snaggletoothie (532a38) — 2/28/2009 @ 8:25 am
It took 282 comments but there it is.
Comment by happyfeet (bf7f5a) — 2/28/2009 @ 8:27 am
All I know, hateyfeet, is that this entire thread bolsters my faith in the continuance of Progressive governance and the continuation of the marginalization of the American far right, exemplified by…well, you and your crazy positions.
In other news, if the Republicans want to make a come back, they need a tax cut. Tax cuts fix everything
Comment by timb (8f04c0) — 2/28/2009 @ 8:38 am
Thanks for that, Pablo. It is apparent that Hax is very young and uneducated or he only reads the LA Times.
There is also the testimony from Iraqi generals captured after the war who were told that “the unit next to them” was supplied with WMD’s. Saddam played a very dangerous game with the world and expected the left wing to protect him from repercussions. He misjudged us, he thought we would sue him.
Hax, please remember that a lot of what was said about President Bush were lies spread by the hate filled left. Not everything , but a lot of it was. Believing those lies has led many good people to hate a good man. Give up the hate and seek the truth.
Comment by tyree (99cbce) — 2/28/2009 @ 8:46 am
Tax cuts fix everything
As do frontal lobotomies – of which you should avail yourself of one ASAP.
Comment by Dmac (49b16c) — 2/28/2009 @ 8:50 am
The Obamatrons must be scared too if they’re back to arguing Saddam/WMDs.
I know of a photo where Rumsfeld is shaking Saddam’s hand!!!!
Comment by Patricia (419c68) — 2/28/2009 @ 11:16 am
Rush is on now and is fantastic, as usual.
Comment by Peg C. (48175e) — 2/28/2009 @ 2:14 pm
to whoever wrote this rediculous story about is this the way we want republicans portrayed. ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THE MEDIA WILL EVER!!!!! EVER PORTRAY CONSERVATIVES IN A POSITIVE LIGHT YOU FUCKING IDIOT? I hate fake people and i mostly hate fake ass conservatives that want to tip toe around everything they do or say, because how the other side might think of us. fucking useless idiots. find your balls, then, get back at me and region the party. until then, get the fuck out of the way…..
Comment by slizzle (cebb6d) — 2/28/2009 @ 5:33 pm
slizzle,
Can you twirl your moustache while you say that, old boy?
I nominate slizzle for Chief Advisor on How to Portray Republicans. I think he would do a capital job, wot?
Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 2/28/2009 @ 5:48 pm
I personally like most of the low brow comments.Of course,I belong to the common sense club. Unfortunately like flies to shit all the dumb asses come out of the wood work to say hateful stuff. Because people with no understanding on reality, Like to added they’re stinky shit to the pile.
For most of them, are way to busy living in a mirror of deception to realize their own stupidity . If They believe that Rush Limbaugh is so smart and truthful about everything he says and claims. Why not have him put his mouth and heart to the test and run for the presidency and fix everything that is so wrong. I mean all the other critics who think just
like him have all the answers. Right? I suppose that’s why their telling the world what everybody else is doing wrong. Oh! I forgot People how know everything really know nothing. Of course their just blowing steaming hot air. With no action except for manipulating small minds. That believe these phony fakes are some How Gods that know
all and see all. Yeah! that will be the day. Here’s a dare, for all you know all and see all. Who don’t do nothing , Why don’t you tell your Republican leaders like Rush to put there magical words to good use and fix things instead of talking. I want to see action not hateful rhetoric that doesn’t do a dame thing for anybody, Wake the hell up and stop living in the pass.
PLEASE YOUR SONG AND DANCE IS OLD,
FOR REAL SLEEP ON THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Chin Check) Be real or don’t be, But live with it ! I.W.
Comment by Isaac (fd7369) — 2/28/2009 @ 6:01 pm
Has any one mentioned Keith Olbermann yet?
Comment by U NO HOO (55a434) — 2/28/2009 @ 6:38 pm
“How could Saddam have shipped them out without a single living person finding out about it?”
Easy, they were all killed by America’s carpet bombing of Iraq that killed millions and millions of Iraqis, on purpose, without guilt.
Comment by U NO HOO (55a434) — 2/28/2009 @ 6:43 pm
As a lifelong conservative christian republican, I resent sizzle’s comments. My plan is to get the fuck out of his way and region the party.
I say, could you help me find my balls, old boy? Ta, that’s a good chap.
Comment by carlitos (0326a3) — 2/28/2009 @ 7:56 pm
Wow – you’re about 15 years too late in worrying about whether the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter embody the “image Republicans want to project.” Face it, at this point int time they are the face and voice of the GOP. You folks spent way too much time and effort lauding and rewarding their ignorance and hate over the years; don’t try now to walk away and pretend you didn’t know what these folks were all about. As your beloved scriptures say…”As ye reap, so shall ye sow.”
Comment by jjcomet (709fd1) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:00 am
Wow, you ignorance and hate make it very clear what you are all about.
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:18 am
jj, how about if you walk away secure in the knowledge that you don’t know what you’re talking about? Or maybe you could devote yourself to more charitable pursuits, like teaching Issac how to build a sentence.
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:31 am
Anybody find that “r” on the floor that I dropped back there?
Comment by EW1(SG) (e27928) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:33 am
The answer to the question in the title to this post is these are not Republicans. These are conservatives. Likewise, I am a conservative, not a Republican. Republicans are emasculated, castrated girlie men who are afraid of their own shadow. Basically Democrat-lite. Me too! Me too!
Comment by Peter (92c60c) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:35 am
“you folks” = racist
Just sayin’
I’m thinking that Peter is not Peter.
Comment by carlitos (2ed087) — 3/1/2009 @ 8:01 am
I’m thinking that Peter is not Peter.
No. Peter of comments #218 and #300 is in no way the real Peter.
HE writes:
Sorry, but I want Our Lord and Savior Barack Hussein Obama to fail. Miserably. Colossally. On as grand a scale as possible. He’s a socialist, a Marxist and if He succeeds, most Americans will suffer irreparable damage.
I want Him to be as colossal a failure as Jimmy Carter if not more so. Why? So Americans will never vote the likes of Him into power.
What he really means is that he and his ilk are terrified, simply quaking in their boots terrified that a successful and competent president of the likes of Obama, may very well put the final nail in the catastrophically failed discredited pathetic experiment in “leadership” that was the faux-conservative neocon Republicanism of 90s and aughts era GOP. So, he’s willing to see the whole country suffer for his dogma, like any good demagogue zealot who’s last all touch with reality and is living in a fantasy land.
And whereas the Democrats had the decency to stand behind Bush after the horrible crisis of 911 and the “war on terror,” Republicans hanging by a thread think their only way back to dominance is to obstruct and punish the entire nation for soundly drumming them out of power in the legislative and Executive branches of the Federal government.
Comment by Peter (e70d1c) — 3/1/2009 @ 8:21 am
And have decided to make their political stand on obstructing the nation from pulling itself out of this economic hell hole it finds itself in. IN no small measure due to the very same failed tired ideologies that the GOP clings too, as if it was the final lifeline to political relevance.
There’s a difference between sticking to ones principles and just sticking your principles in everyones face to force a partisan confrontation. And that argument rings much much too hollow considering what fiscal conservatives allowed the Neocons to do, to the country and to them. A valuable political POV has been decimated. They should place their blame on themselves and on the leadership of their party over the last decade and a half or so.
Comment by Peter (e70d1c) — 3/1/2009 @ 8:35 am
You realize, Peter, that the Congressional Budget Office says this package isn’t going to work, will cause more harm than benefit in the long run, and that the economy will recover without it, don’t you?
Why is the CBO obstructing Baracky and Nancy and Harry from saving us from doom? And why must they use those bedeviled numbers!??!
Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:45 pm
Peter won’t be able to comment. He’s in moderation until he accedes to the requirements laid down by Patterico.
Comment by steve miller (4bda12) — 3/1/2009 @ 7:54 pm
[...] who is a stalwart defender of free speech, doesn’t like what the invited speakers had to say, because of the decorum? Because it is not the sort of image one wishes to [...]
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