Patterico's Pontifications

2/21/2009

Obama’s Plan to Save the Economy: Raise Taxes

Filed under: Obama — Patterico @ 6:01 pm



No, I’m not kidding:

President Obama is putting the finishing touches on an ambitious first budget that seeks to cut the federal deficit in half over the next four years, primarily by raising taxes on business and the wealthy and by slashing spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, administration officials said.

I’m pretty sure raising taxes is generally accepted as a great way to jump-start an ailing economy.

Just ask our legislators here in California.

And I’m pleased to see Obama’s big commitment to turning Afghanistan around includes slashing spending on that war.

Warm up your chucklin’ muscles before you read further:

In his weekly radio and Internet address today, Obama expressed determination to “get exploding deficits under control” and described his budget request as “sober in its assessments, honest in its accounting, and lays out in detail my strategy for investing in what we need, cutting what we don’t, and restoring fiscal discipline.”

Hey, I know a good way to do that. A trillion-dollar stimulus package packed to the gills with pork spending!

290 Responses to “Obama’s Plan to Save the Economy: Raise Taxes”

  1. He is bound and determined to out-do FDR.
    This is going to get very bad….very…bad!

    AD - RtR/OS (80f3aa)

  2. He talks like a politician – determination is not a promise. Saving 4 million jobs isn’t the same as creating 4 million jobs.

    He can’t be held to anything. His adoring Obamabots will excuse every failing.

    I’d like to see where raising taxes has been shown to fix a deficit caused by government spending equal to 8% of the GDP.

    steve miller (f65f01)

  3. But AD! Don’t you believe in Hope and Change?

    You get caught up in those pesky little facts.

    Feelings are much more important than facts.

    So what if the President made all kind of claims before the election. Now, a few weeks later, he is being “flexible” in a “muscular fashion” to changing conditions.

    It’s not hypocrisy! It’s so different and so much better than the Republicans!

    Right?

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  4. Don’t they have any economists in President Obama’s administration?

    tyree (5624c2)

  5. Patrick: Still think he’s a good man?

    Jackie (c43c89)

  6. EB, I only believe in what I can see over my front sight.
    I wonder what unicorn steak tastes like?

    AD - RtR/OS (80f3aa)

  7. Tyree : When they asked President Obama whether there would be any economists in his administration, he thought they said “Communists” and answered certainly not!

    Don’t put all the blame on President Obama, he is just following in the revered footsteps of President Roosevelt. FDR ran to the right of President Hoover in the general election.

    However, on taking office, he moved to the left of Hoover. The economic plans he put forth in his first 100 days were a mishmash of Hoover’s and Musolini’s ideas.

    Longwalker (996c34)

  8. Yeh, well at least El Duce got the trains to run on time…
    Been on Amtrak lately?

    AD - RtR/OS (80f3aa)

  9. Obama expressed determination to “get exploding deficits under control”

    Stop spending so much.

    Just a thought.

    Patricia (89cb84)

  10. As Glenn Beck would say – This is going to make blood spurt out your eyes!

    Lily (9d9b60)

  11. The Obama administration is such a comedy they ought to make it into a movie! (Oh wait . . .they already did!)

    Official Internet Data Office (b5b7c2)

  12. Patrick: Still think he’s a good man?

    I think he’s a man pursuing disastrous policies.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  13. He wants to cut the deficit “in half”–to a size that exceeds every deficit prior to this year.

    According to the administration’s projections, Obama will add $4 trillion to the national debt in his 4 years. My estimate is a little higher–nearly $6 trillion. That George W Bush was an amateur.

    Thomas (7c68f8)

  14. If the stimulus package didn’t completely galvanize the GOP, this will – they better start screaming to the rafters on this, and tell their 3 Blind Mice Senators that they’re dead to them if they attempt to parlay with this kind of crapola any longer.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  15. I was reading about this ambitious budget earlier. It appears to continue trillion dollar deficits for at least 2-3 years, but apparently is kind of difficult to sort through, as they are submitting it in a different format. Apparently, they do not want this to be actually read either.

    It is just rich that he has acted like some kind of hawk in Afghanistan, and will request to slash its funding.

    Question – Was not most of the Iraq and Afghanistan funding off of the standard budget? If Barack is just going to use those numbers as baselines for his budget and then transfer that spending to his little pet socialist projects, we are more well and truly fucked than we thought.

    JD (4a1b82)

  16. Raising taxes on business might be one of the most intentionally stupid ideas that he has ever suggested. Maybe they want to raise consumer prices, or force more layoffs, so they can take advantage of a crisis. And, the people of nuance never understand static and dynamic scoring. Dirty little socialist, he is.

    JD (4a1b82)

  17. Still think he’s a good man?

    In the famous words of Babu Bhatt: He’s a bad man, a very very bad man.

    Old Coot (7721b8)

  18. The “stimulus” package is just a warm-up, folks. Just wait until we get to see this budget. Obviously, that assumes that we will get to read his budget before they pass it. Ditto TARP2. They will make the stimulus look frugal.

    JD (4a1b82)

  19. As seen elsewhere – We sure dodged a bullet with that Plain chick!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  20. Palin

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  21. Well Bush was condemned for willfully ignoring facts but it looks like Obama is going to be crowned winner.

    The world’s largest budget deficits are accumulated in the countries with the highest tax rates.

    The state’s with the largest budget deficits also have the highest tax rates.

    Yet raising taxes is supposed to help cut the deficit?

    They never ever ever ever learn.

    All high tax rates do is incent government to spend even more money in pursuit of politics while starving the private sector of capital it needs to do what it does best.

    Old saying that Gov.t ignores an industry when it starts to create itself, starts to tax it as it grows, starts to regulate it as it matures and starts to subsidize it as it dies.

    There is not doubt 2012 is GOP if he gets his way. The economy will go into toxic shock as the Water Carriers are forced to provide for those drinking.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  22. Can you believe this? I have a little money, what is left, and he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy. Too much wine tonight, just can’t believe this man is in office. Ask the fisherman in Florida if they like this! Their industry is going down because no one is spending the money on shrimp and lobster! Lets just raise taxes on small business that file on their personal tax returns. Think they will be laying off in the next 2 years? Lets raise taxes on capital gains! Yeah, I spend all my time at home instead of going out and spending money just because it keeps going down everyday! Can’t believe this man! I believe he is trying to destroy this economy instead of reviving it. I think even President Clinton will be astonished!

    karen hunn (7a4234)

  23. Raising Capital Gains Taxes …. now that is funny.

    I would give them that. ROTFLMAO!

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  24. Tomorrow’s headlines…today!

    “OBAMA: I HAD TO DESTROY THE ECONOMY IN ORDER TO SAVE IT.”

    MarkJ (7fa185)

  25. MarkJ – pretty darn funny.

    I don’t think the Obamatrons are gonna understand why it’s deliciously ironic.

    steve miller (f65f01)

  26. Patrick: Still think he’s a good man?

    Obama is a scumbag who is destroying the United States. This is what we get for voting for the skin color and not the man.

    Roy Mustang (776c16)

  27. Raising corporate taxes during a severe recession sounds like a great way to kill a recovery fast; throws a wrench into the country’s wealth generating engine. It is also counterintuitive to raise personal income taxes — even on the “wealthy” — as these people now have less money to spend and less to “stimulate” the economy.

    Are we Alice in Wonderland, or is it just Malice in Blunderland?

    Mark Turner (563c73)

  28. Does anyone sense a bit of “wealth redistribution” in this taxation plan, when coupled with a misguided “stimulus”?

    Mark Turner (a34be0)

  29. The main problem I see is that Obama does not think like a free-market capitalist, he thinks like a socialist, and his public assertions of the government being the only mechanism to get us out of the recession reinforces this, in my opinion.

    Mark Turner (563c73)

  30. Heckovajob, Bambi!

    steve miller (f65f01)

  31. California remains on the brink of insolvency. The budget cannot work because the revenues will be greatly reduced due to tax-generating activities leaving the state or just evaporating. WSJ today suggests that defaulting on debt, and throwing the budget into the undefined world of state bankruptcy may be the only way to break the unions.

    The big problem with our $10 trillion debt is it makes us very vulnerable to economic attack. China can sustain dumping $100 billion of US Treasuries into the market every week for half a year. That would crush the US’s ability to borrow needed money itself, sending us easily into insane inflation and a “lost decade”. Sure, China would pay a price for that by getting pennies on the dollar on their fire-sale of US bonds. They’d pay maybe as much as the $1 trillion we paid for the Iraq war. Not that China would want to do that…

    New World Order.

    Wesson (3ab0b8)

  32. Untill sheeple wake up and get off the, I feel good about having a black president bull crap. This nation of missfits will be going to HELL. Guns and ammo, fresh water and good seeds is what my family needs.

    MG (333157)

  33. ___________________________________

    As I was reading the following, I thought of all the folks throughout the US who think it’s so great and meaningful to have a person of African descent in the White House — so wonderful to also now have a woman as Secretary of State — but who would lose their delight and enthusiasm for such superficial qualities if the person in question (ie, Obama and Clinton) had the apparent common sense, and refreshing plainspeak, of Dambisa Moyo. (And I’m sure the we-love-Obama, we-resent-Sarah-Palin crowd would prefer America’s neurotic-about-race Attorney General to Ms. Moyo too.)

    If by a miracle a large percentage of the people in Africa started to think more like Dambisa Moyo, and, in turn, a plurality of the people in America continued to have the mindset they displayed, well, last November, I’d be way more optimistic about the future of Africa instead of the United States.

    New York Times:

    Q: As a native of Zambia with advanced degrees in public policy and economics from Harvard and Oxford, you [Dambisa Moyo] are about to publish an attack on Western aid to Africa and its recent glamorization by celebrities. ‘‘Dead Aid,’’ as your book is called, is particularly hard on rock stars. Have you met Bono?

    A: I have, yes, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, last year. It was at a party to raise money for Africans, and there were no Africans in the room, except for me.

    …I’ll make a general comment about this whole dependence on “celebrities.” I object to this situation as it is right now where they have inadvertently or manipulatively become the spokespeople for the African continent.

    Q: You argue in your book that Western aid to Africa has not only perpetuated poverty but also worsened it, and you are perhaps the first African to request in book form that all development aid be halted within five years.

    A: Think about it this way — China has 1.3 billion people, only 300 million of whom live like us, if you will, with Western living standards. There are a billion Chinese who are living in substandard conditions. Do you know anybody who feels sorry for China? Nobody.

    Forty years ago, China was poorer than many African countries. Yes, they have money today, but where did that money come from? They built that, they worked very hard to create a situation where they are not dependent on aid.

    Q: What do you think has held back Africans?

    A: I believe it’s largely aid. You get the corruption — historically, leaders have stolen the money without penalty — and you get the dependency, which kills entrepreneurship. You also disenfranchise African citizens, because the government is beholden to foreign donors and not accountable to its people.

    Q: For all your belief in the potential of capitalism, the free market is now in free fall and everyone is questioning the supposed wonders of the unregulated market.

    A: I wish we questioned the aid model as much as we are questioning the capitalism model. Sometimes the most generous thing you can do is just say no.


    ___________________________________

    Mark (411533)

  34. “The main problem I see is that Obama does not think like a free-market capitalist, he thinks like a socialist”

    Mark – Plus he’s got a thin skin and a compulsive need to be liked. He takes it personally when people disagree with him. Witness his administration stooping to classless personal attacks on critics. Presidents don’t do that kind of shit. He’s also started off with big blunders on the foreign policy side as well.

    But hey, we really dodged a bullet with that Palin chick, right.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  35. I just say whatever comes through the tin foil to my pointy little jug eared head–and people believe it!

    President Obama–on any day of his term in office.

    So goes the “governing philosophy” of our President. The problem is that while he’s tinkering on the job, people’s lives, and life savings, are being destroyed.

    Mike Myers (674050)

  36. Raising capital gains taxes: The giant sucking sound you hear is investment capital disappearing to floorboards and mattresses. What do you do when investment risk goes up, like now? Tax investment return. Yeah, that’ll work.

    As Heinlein said, the end result of all this will be “Bad luck.”

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  37. It is becoming clear that there is a coordinated attack on capitalism, and that it began last year.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  38. […] Obama’s Plan to Save the Economy: Raise Taxes No, I’m not kidding: I’m pretty sure raising taxes is generally accepted as a great way to jump-start an ailing economy. In his weekly radio and Internet address today, Obama expressed determination to “get exploding deficits under control” and described his budget request as “sober in its assessments, honest in its accounting, and lays out in detail my strategy for investing in what we need, cutting what we don’t, and restoring fiscal discipline.” […]

    Obama proposes to cut spending and raise taxes. Right behind spending $800 billion? Kidding Who? « Goodtimepolitics (cffb04)

  39. Welcome to Barry’s most excellent world wide depression.

    Perfect Sense (0922fa)

  40. Personally, my wife and I are moving all of our retirement funds into cash in advance of Pres. Jughead’s address on Tuesday. This is difficult as I am travelling and will not return to the US until Tuesday afternoon. The text of the e-mail to my financial advisers:

    Iam currently in China and will return tot he US late Tuesday afternoon. I have discussed this with [my wife], and we have decided it is in our best interest to move our retirement savings into cash.

    I want the funds to remain in the tax-sheltered IRA accounts, but I want the money moved into money-market or cash equivalents. NO STOCKS AT THIS TIME.

    Please note that this decision is no reflection on your advice and abilities. However, looking at the performance of the markets since Obama got elected, the DJIA has lost almost 2,000 points. Every time he or anyone in his administration discuss the economy, the markets react negatively.

    This decision is simply to protect [my wife’s] and my interests.

    I will try to call in about 9:30 AM Monday to confirm this decision. It is imperative to complete this before Obama’s speech on Tuesday night.

    Please acknowledge your reciept of this message.

    Dr. K (b99fd5)

  41. “it began last year.” Sep 15 2008. Money market/commercial paper credit nosedived, Paulson and Bernanke panicked, got Messiah complex, scared the living shit out of W and a bunch of congressmen, birthed the TARP, which TOO MANY conservatives got sucked into, and then we were off to the races, as was predicted by sage (cough gp cough) conservative prognosticators.

    Now the govt is completely out of control, and we are well and truly fucked.

    Full disclosure: in the face of this suffocating fear, I continue to dollar cost average long into equities.

    gp (6fe526)

  42. A great porkulus crapsandwich, TARPII-IV, Foreclosure Rebates and three trillion dollar budgets this is so hideous that one doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry. Putting taxes on already struggling businesses will just dig the hole deeper.

    eaglewingz08 (f71692)

  43. The Democrats are infamious for “TAX & SPEND” attempts for many decades with little success. HOWEVER, the “NEW DEAL” format that is Now being implimented should be identified as “SPEND & TAX”. It should be remembered that The President did say that ‘….first part of the economic recovery….’.
    I am still wondering how such a large Bill/Law was conceived, drafted, edited, and implimented in under 2 months…..
    I am not wondering how they got their “TAX & SPEND” , oops Sorry, “SPEND & TAX” plans running…..

    Bruce Smith (bc09a2)

  44. I agree that this program will result in another crash. People (even Bill Clinton) have complained that Obama is too pessimistic in his pronouncements. I suspect that will now be understood as the fact that he knew what his plans were. We all thought that he was going to do things that would help the economy. He knew better.

    We have a preview of the national future in California. This sounds about right, especially the part about how more middle class would leave if they could sell their houses.

    I think we will see a flight of capital by those who still have some. The lefties, of course, think this is all wonderful. I especially like the fact that they are crowing about how Republicans won’t like it. I am even more convinced that they think only tactically. There is no economic sense there at all.

    MIke K (90939b)

  45. Mr Turner asked:

    Does anyone sense a bit of “wealth redistribution” in this taxation plan, when coupled with a misguided “stimulus”?

    Yes, but not the way he intended it. Increasing corporate taxation means increasing prices for the end consumer: corporations do everything they can to pass all costs down through their prices for their goods and services, and this is done throughout the product chain until you reach the end consumer, the one who turns the product — food, for example — into something that cannot be resold (and we know into what the end consumer turns food.)

    As it happens, the people who were most likely to have voted for Barack Hussein Obama are also those most likely to have to spend all of their income on consumer goods are the ones who will get hit the hardest by any increase in corporate taxes. If you are doing well enough that you aren’t living paycheck-to-paycheck, you have the freedom to invest your money in places not subject to corporate taxes or buy overseas.

    The economist Dana (556f76)

  46. I’m thinking we’ll see a lot less of those “Hope and Change” bumper stickers as the economy tanks. Because I, for one, will be pointing at them and saying, “It’s your fault”!

    PatriotRider (37b91c)

  47. Mr Murphy wrote:

    Raising capital gains taxes: The giant sucking sound you hear is investment capital disappearing to floorboards and mattresses. What do you do when investment risk goes up, like now? Tax investment return. Yeah, that’ll work.

    I’m wondering just how many people have capital gains to report this year? Capital losses, which are partially deductible, remain more probable.

    But few people with money to invest are the type to hide it under floorboards or mattresses; at worst, it’ll go into secured investments.

    Oh, but what is the (supposedly) most secure investment of all? Why, that would be United States Treasury Bills! With this absolutely brilliant move, President Obama provides encouragement to engage in the economic activity he needs the most, people putting up money to finance the deficit. If he can somehow increase the demand for T-Bills, he creates a little bit of downward pressure on interest rates as he seeks to borrow so much money.

    The economist Dana (556f76)

  48. Ya know, I’ve noticed a lot fewer Obama bumper stickers on cars now. What do these idiots do, peel them off in the middle of the night ?

    DaveinPhoenix (6fad21)

  49. […] Patterico points out the idiocy of TCM’s dual goals of cutting the deficit by half in four yea… […]

    Bent Notes » Blog Archive » If you can’t see the jive in TCM’s budget plan, you deserve the dictatorship he’s imposing on you (66d836)

  50. […] Patterico breaks down Obama’s plan to save the economy […]

    Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup » Pirate’s Cove — Blimey! (6f92d7)

  51. Why do you think gold is still going up ? At least this should prevent a major correction in the gold price.

    We have had the expert opinion on the Obama plan this morning. Al Hunt on Meet the Press said the plan to cram down mortgage balances is the “best plan I’ve heard” to deal with the crisis. After all, he said, many of those borrowers were “duped” into borrowing all that money.

    That should get the mortgage market flowing again.

    MIke K (90939b)

  52. Dr. K., I believe that the awesome birds of our wonderful educational system are coming home to roost.

    Eric Blair (55a017)

  53. With all of the talk about “cram downs”, it will only be a short time before mortgage interest rates will be back to Carter-era levels.
    I remember in ’78 that I got a mortgage on a condo for 9.75%, and frankly, that was a highly favorable rate such as Dodd’s “FOA” Countrywide notes – others in the same complex were complaining of 11/25%.
    These are not things to look forward to, but they will happen if mortgage terms can be changed mid-stream.

    AD - RtR/OS (f7103f)

  54. […] Well, I was wrong.  He’s not even waiting until his third month in office to propose hiking those “fees” the government takes from us: President Obama is putting the finishing touches on an ambitious first budget that seeks to cut […]

    GayPatriot » Obama to Raise Taxes? (afb062)

  55. Patrick, I’m moving to strike your answer as non-responsive. I’m speaking of his public character, not whether he is a good husband or father or otherwise worthy in private life. As far as his public character, he is pursuing disastrous policies for an improper reason (to create a new permanent majority) and in an improper fashion (dishonestly, with a lack of transparency, etc.). Maybe he’s not the worst ever, but a good fellow? No.

    Jackie (42bed3)

  56. I’m in the highway planning and design industry. Our major projects must be planned years in advance, by law. Project planning generally is limited so as to not go beyond future (pre-stimulus) funding projections.

    The massive spending that is coming our way will go to quick projects previously deemed unnecessary or projects that had funding elsewhere but now will be paid for via the stimulus to free up money for more projects in future years.

    In other words, it is either wasted or not stimulus. There is and can be no other option.

    Oh, they could accelerate some large projects by passing a law declaring that they don’t have to comply with NEPA (it has been done before). Fat chance of that happening. Besides, it would be super-pork – although at least there would be a chance the money could go for something in the public interest somewhere.

    Amphipolis (e6b868)

  57. Obama may be personally a good man, but he’s a very bad wizard.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., who is sad a troll is here and DRJ is not (0ea407)

  58. Comment by Amphipolis — 2/22/2009 @ 9:15 am
    The one good thing the GOP did when they were in the majority, was to pass the Border Fence authorization with a little “magic clause” in it: Not withstanding any other law.
    That kept the enviros from challenging it on ESA grounds, among others.
    The Dems would never pass any stimulus legislation with such a clause; since, the longer it takes to complete a project, the greater graft that can be siphoned from it.

    AD - RtR/OS (f7103f)

  59. I’m reading some very interesting alternative takes on all this. Obama may be a disaster for our economy but it will be a killer for every other country’s economy.

    The silliest thing that clever people are saying about the world economic crisis is that the United States will lose its position as the dominant world superpower in consequence. On the contrary: the crisis strengthens the relative position of the United States and exposes the far graver weaknesses of all prospective competitors. It makes the debt of the American government the world’s most desirable asset. America may deserve to decline, but as Clint Eastwood said in another context, “deserve’s got nothing to do with it”. President Barack Obama may turn out to be the most egregious unilateralist in American history.

    This fits better with Friedman’s predictions. Another of his predictions is a 50 year cycle in our history with each cycle ending in a failed presidency. Reagan began the last cycle after Carter’s failure. According to Friedman, the next failed president will be in 2030. I think it may come as early as 2012.

    MIke K (90939b)

  60. Seriously…I have read these same quotes no less than 20 times now…and they don’t seem any less ridiculous than they did when I first laid eyes on them.

    What is wrong with our president? Does he really think we’re going to fall for this crap? I know there are still people out there who are…but a lot of them are wising up, and more will continue to do so.

    Does anyone else smell a revolution? Cause I think I might need one!

    ~T the D
    http://thedrunkelephant.blogspot.com/

    T the D (387724)

  61. Mike, if you think back 50 years, there was a failed Presidency then too.
    The only thing that saved JFK’s Presidency was his death. His proposals were going nowhere in the Congress, and none were passed in his lifetime.
    His foreign policy was a disaster, almost igniting a World War, a laying the groundwork for VietNam. He was complicit in the assassination of a foreign leader with our involvement in the overthrow of the Diem Government.
    It was a tense time fogged by the remembrance of Dallas.

    AD - RtR/OS (f7103f)

  62. I’m wondering if the people who were pulling to have Hillary knocked out of the race are rethinking that.

    As liberal as Billy was, he wasn’t this stupid.

    jpm100 (b2fc85)

  63. I’ve noticed a lot fewer Obama bumper stickers on cars now. What do these idiots do, peel them off in the middle of the night?

    Maybe you missed the commenter a while back, I think during the campaign. Evidently a small business owner, one of the worst hit in the new tax regimen. He said when he had to choose who in his company he’d lay off first, his first move would be to check out the Obama bumper stickers in the company parking lot.

    Could be simply preservation before politics. Live by the tax, die by the tax.

    allan-san (7247e5)

  64. Obama may be a disaster for our economy but it will be a killer for every other country’s economy.

    And the environmental policies of Obama (along with those promoted and demanded by California’s state government, by politicians like Schwarzenegger in particular) certainly will have some impact on Detroit—on auto sales in the US in general. So that combined with trends like the ones described below, should make the world perfectly ripe for economic stagnation for some time to come.

    New York Times, 2-22-09:

    The economic malaise that plagued Japan from the 1990s until the early 2000s brought stunted wages and depressed stock prices, turning free-spending consumers into misers and making them dead weight on Japan’s economy.

    Today, years after the recovery, even well-off Japanese households use old bath water to do laundry, a popular way to save on utility bills. Sales of whiskey, the favorite drink among moneyed Tokyoites in the booming ’80s, have fallen to a fifth of their peak. And the nation is losing interest in cars; sales have fallen by half since 1990.

    In the last three months of 2008, Japan’s economy shrank at an annualized rate of 12.7 percent, the sharpest decline since the oil shocks of the 1970s.

    “Japan is so dependent on exports that when overseas markets slow down, Japan’s economy teeters on collapse,” said Hideo Kumano, an economist at the Dai-ichi Life Research Institute. “On the surface, Japan looked like it had recovered from its Lost Decade of the 1990s. But Japan in fact entered a second Lost Decade — that of lost consumption.”

    Younger people are feeling the brunt of that shift. Some 48 percent of workers age 24 or younger are temps. These workers, who came of age during a tough job market, tend to shun conspicuous consumption.

    They tend to be uninterested in cars; a survey last year by the business daily Nikkei found that only 25 percent of Japanese men in their 20s wanted a car, down from 48 percent in 2000, contributing to the slump in sales.

    Young Japanese women even seem to be losing their once-insatiable thirst for foreign fashion. Louis Vuitton, for example, reported a 10 percent drop in its sales in Japan in 2008.

    Mark (411533)

  65. He’s brilliant. All he has to do is not pass a trillion-dollar stimulus package next year and, voila, he’s “Halved the deficit”.

    I need to go lie down for a bit.

    Techie (6b5d8d)

  66. The US Treasury is a perpetual money machine. The Greenbacks I print will be taxed and then they will pay for themselves. Then I can print more and they will pay for themselves. We will all become fabulously weathly. Even hobos will have abandoned cars to sleep in.

    I learned how to do this in school. Me and my buddy Bill have the plan all worked out. Nothing can go wrong. Trust me on this.

    Barak Obama (69f638)

  67. Barak, there is a flaw in your plan. When you print too much money, eventually it gets inflated until the paper and ink the money is printed on is worth more than the money itself.

    Its already happened to your pennys and nickels, it will affect your paper eventually.

    And when you stop printing more paper, the resultant crash is like a heroin addict going dry and that’s if it isn’t fatal.

    Adam Smith (69f638)

  68. I like the explanation for the disappearance of the Obama bumper stickers. On the other hand, this assumes a level of self-awareness on the part of O voters that I’m not sure exists.

    Mike K (90939b)

  69. The Democrats evidently intend to demonstrate their utter unfitness to be steward’s of our economic wellbeing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  70. Republicans have no interest in saving the economy.

    It’s not Reaganesque

    David Ehrenstein (98fb12)

  71. ok..i am fed up with listening to people whining and using words like socialism, communism and wealth redistribution to hide the fact that they only think of their own selfish greedy interests. deregulation and misguided trust that free enterprise and capitalism would behave ethically was a big failure. greed and thye pursuit of profits at whatever the cost are why our homes, savings and jobs are worthless today. your guns and ammo and crops on your guarded estates will never be enuff to overcome the social upheaval that will occur if we dont fix what ails the world. all your money will be worthless. stop yer cutsey name calling and blame game and accept the fact that the world must embrace policies other than the “memememe” mentality of those who’s greed has spoiled much of what americans thought they might achieve. become an active part of a solution instead of the cowardly whiners you are now

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  72. ” stop yer cutsey name calling and blame game and accept the fact that the world must embrace policies other than the “memememe” mentality”

    Bob – The people with the “memememe” attitudes are the base of the Democrat party. They are waiting for the government to step in and solve their problems, restructure their mortgages, hand thems checks, etc. Look at the wonders quasi socialism has done for Europe. Is that what you want for the U.S.?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  73. 68 good idea- best to let the chicago way crooks redistribute assets through confsicatory taxes and creation of more greenbacks/sale of treasuries.
    no doubt mr judson is a union thug or someone else unable or unwilling to work or produce anything other than socialist rhetoric, but that’s fine because this time it will work out for Amerikkka. We might well consider assimilating Mexico, much like W. Germans working hard to bring the East Germans into the prosperous fold of democaracy. Funny how you see other nations throwing off socialism to some degree while the assclown friends of Obama/Soros/Daley take power and remold America. Say goodbye to Free Speech and the pursuit of Happiness. How’s it feel to fellate Obama or be somdomized the Chicago Way, suckers?

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  74. No one in this country even knows what socialism is, and you label everything that has to do with government as socialism. Go back to school and get an education that is free from Hannity and Coulter.

    He’s raising taxes back to the levels before this disaster. By your own very logic, this should be a good thing. Taxing mega corporations and trust fund babies isn’t what destroyed this economy. Giving them a free ride to do whatever they want is. We’re finally getting away from that.

    And to all you poor folks out there who THINK you’ll be rich someday and that’s why you don’t want the rich to pay higher taxes: You’ll never be wealthy and you’ll never pay these taxes because no one will ever let you generate any wealth. Wealth is not created by wealth, it is created by LABOR. Get it right jack asses.

    Cameron (53c8d4)

  75. Our populist friend at #68 would no doubt cheer on the massacre of the Kulaks. Well, they might not sit still for it this time.

    Mike K (90939b)

  76. I vote we raise Cameron’s taxes. For the greater good.

    Techie (6b5d8d)

  77. I’d like for a definition of “de-regulation”, cause throwing that out there as some axiom is pretty rich considering you’re decrying the “abuse of the terms socialism”?

    You actually think industry and finances aren’t regulated in this country? Have you even seen the Federal Register or the US Code, or heard of Sarbanes-Oxley?

    Techie (6b5d8d)

  78. “No one in this country even knows what socialism is, and you label everything that has to do with government as socialism.”

    Cameron – Are you suggesting that Obama’s dirty socialist advisers don’t know what they are doing and he should get some new ones?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  79. Techie wrote:

    I’d like for a definition of “de-regulation”, cause throwing that out there as some axiom is pretty rich considering you’re decrying the “abuse of the terms socialism”?

    Allow me to help, good sir. My current blog tagline is: From the liberal dictionary: any change that allows a corporation to make money is considered deregulation. Conversely, any change which inhibits a corporation from making money is known as economic justice.

    The blogger Dana (556f76)

  80. Cameron, your comments are incoherent. The level of taxation had nothing to do with the credit crisis that caused the current recession. You need to work on your own education before worrying about others’.

    You seem to have no understanding of the levels of taxation and regulation that currently exist. But that’s rather typical, I’ve found.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  81. bob judson, I suspect that what you are actually tired of is the great numbers of people who have more knowledge of economics than you do. People like yourself who blame capitalism for all the ills of the world only show that you’ve paid no attention to history and the horrendous toll of mass murders that has resulted from left wing fanatics like yourself.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  82. Wealth is created by labor? Then Cuba must be one of the richest countries in the world, but it isn’t. Because of a stupid community organizer named Castro, Cuba’s economy is almost entirely based on labor, not machines (capital). Since Cuba does not have the wealth to acquire machines, Cuba is one of the poorest countries in the world.

    Perfect Sense (0922fa)

  83. We could save billions if we were to stop funding Illegal Alliens

    OMR (0c1444)

  84. He’s raising taxes back to the levels before this disaster. By your own very logic, this should be a good thing. Taxing mega corporations and trust fund babies isn’t what destroyed this economy. Giving them a free ride to do whatever they want is.

    First, you have to prove that lowering the tax rates — which were lowered on everyone, not just “mega corporations and trust fund babies” — caused the economic downturn. That’ll be difficult to do, at best.

    Second, lowering taxes isn’t “giving them a free ride”, it’s letting them keep the fruits of their own labor. Since you, yourself, have said that wealth is created by labor, then by your own logic the government taking away the fruits of someone’s labor is equal to stealing wealth from them.

    Third, the overwhelming majority of wealthy in this country have become wealthy in their own lifetimes, by their own efforts, and are not trust fund babies.

    It’s amusing that you rail that your political opponents are uneducated, when you don’t know the first thing about how and when wealth in this country was created.

    Steverino (b12c49)

  85. The wealthy and the corarations are who gt us in to this financial mess I am ok with them paying to get us out.

    Harold Ruggless (3267c0)

  86. “The wealthy and the corarations are who gt us in to this financial mess”

    Harold – I did not know that. Those bastards!!

    How did they do it?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  87. Comment by Harold Ruggless — 2/22/2009 @ 12:19 pm

    Another illiterate Obama supporter.

    AD - RtR/OS (f7103f)

  88. Sheesh, Ruggless reminds me that stupidity ought to hurt more.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  89. OMR – Isn’t the Border Fence shovel ready?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  90. How did they do it?

    He has no idea, but that’s what they told him at DKos, so it must be true!

    Seriously, folks…

    To begin with, no corporation really pays taxes. Taxes are just another kind of cost like labor or raw materials, and if you raise costs, they will raise prices accordingly to adjust for the increase.

    Do you think Oil Companies pay taxes incurred? Hell no they don’t. You do, by way of higher wholesale prices paid by your local gas station, which in turn raises the price you pay at the pump.

    Same goes for Apple, Ford, and so on.

    Second, any reduction in overall revenue a company experiances causes either a reduction in their workforce, or a delay in it’s expansion. Lets say you generally pay the neighbor kid $20 to mow your lawn. Then your utility rates go up (damn cable company, raising your rates!) go up by $20. you now have $20 less a month, and darn it, that cuts into your World of Warcraft budget.

    However shall you fix that? Well, you can’t drop Cable, since it’s a package that includes your cable modem broadband… You don’t feel like switching to generic brands at the grocery store…

    I know! You can mow your own lawn!

    And thus the workforce of your household (which once included both you and the yard-boy) has decreased.

    I’ll say it simply: Raising corp. tax rates will never cause an economy to grow. At best it will hold it where it is, and most likely will hurt the economy. Raising Cap Gains taxes causes people to not want to invest, which also hurts the economy.

    And technically speaking, the Wealthy usually pay their mortgages on time. It is the poor who don’t, so if you really wanna get to the root problem here…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  91. A big shout out THANKS! TO ALL YOU OBAMA SUPPORTERS, especially the younger ones. I am now receiving unemployment which will be extended and even slightly increased (so I don’t really have to work at all), can get food stamps if I like, will get most of my health insurance premium paid for (or just go to the emergency room if no insurance) and will get a big subsidy on the mortgage I have on my oversized house (that I bought on speculation!), and my brother will get a bailout on his house which he wasn’t really qualified to buy in the first place. I’m also thinking of buying a new car with the handout they are going to give on those. Thanks again from my family for all the free gifts! I deserve them! In a few years I (like tens of millions of others in my Boomer generation) will be able to collect social security, which you also will be paying for, and way more than I ever had to pay for it! That is if you can even find a job by then. What – you have never heard of a Ponzi scheme?
    You probably still haven’t figured out yet that you’ve been played for as a sucker by the ONE and the Dems in Congress. They (government) have, thru their self serving policies, created crises that let them then come to your rescue (using other people’s money of course). After the current mortgage bailout will come the credit card bailout, then the student loan bailout, then the commercial real estate bailout, etc. etc, until last, but not least, the great tax increase that will be necessary to pay for it all! What Tax increase? What did you expect for all the help they doled out (I mean, carefully measured) to all their major deserving supporters!!! In the mean time, they will have secured complete control of the finance industry, the auto industry, the airline industry, the health care industry, the housing industry, the energy industry, the employment/unemployment industry, etc. etc. etc.
    Pretty soon YOU won’t be able to cash a pay check, write a check, get medical help, go anywhere, or live anywhere unless Barry and the Dems and their bureaucrat henchmen say its ok for you to do so. Hell. You won’t even be able to take a crap unless they give you permission. Of course Obama and the Dems will be able to take a crap whenever and wherever they want. They just did – over you and the rest of the American people! Welcome to “Change you can believe In!”

    Harpo (1e0763)

  92. One unspoken aspect of this whole discussion is the fact that small businessmen (and women) are the most reliable Republican voters in the country. Obama probably knows this in the vague, inchoate way he knows anything and, like most Democrats, he thinks only in terms of elections and politics. Economics is NOT politics ! John Kennedy cut taxes; Richard Nixon imposed wage and price controls. Obama really needs some economists who are not partisan Democrats like Krugman among his advisors.

    Mike K (90939b)

  93. Comment by Harpo — 2/22/2009 @ 12:40 pm

    As someone who’s last day of employment will be this Thursday, I would like some tips as how to best secure a place at the government teet.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  94. Yea , I know one way –We all have to cut down on spending , so tell the President to stop flitting around the country wasting gas.

    Sarah Bowser (ed8741)

  95. this is a brilliant comment. I share a little with you…

    Instead, the dominant media theme is we are supposed to be “compassionate” toward deadbeats and quasi deadbeats, but not compassionate toward those who save, were responsible, and may now have an opportunity to buy low. Why don’t they count in the modern calculus? Because pseudo-thinkers like David Brooks specialize in “nuanced” gobbldeygook. He adds a pseudo-realism to the argument and his latest column epitomizes such nonsense. Newsweek’s Meacham and Evans have also done a good job in the confounding/conflation game. Brooks creates a remarkable non-sequitur argument about “the interconnectedness of the whole” – whatever that is – as if that eco-babble proves the need to bail out failed borrowers.

    happyfeet (4eacbc)

  96. If you read the whole linked news item, you see that Obama’s supposed budget outline is just the most incoherent set of contradictory fantasies that Obama has always been campaigning upon.

    The hilarious part is that Obama and his cultists don’t understand that there is a difference between getting away with contradictory campaign rhetoric and actual governance.

    Its going to be a ugly four years as this country sorts through what will likely be the most incompetent President we’ve seen since Jimmy Carter – if not the most incompetent President ever.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  97. SPQR, I think I have posted on this before, but I honestly think that Obama didn’t expect to be the nominee. I think he expected to be HRC’s VP. After eight years of Hillary, then his eight years. That sort of thing.

    Except that HRC’s campaign imploded, leaving Obama holding the bag. Everything about Obama screams “Not Ready for Prime Time.”

    Look at his decision making, the flip flops The series of bizarre appointments, beginning with that nutjob Biden. All Obama has is this bizarre starry eyed sense of expectation from people with crushes on his ethnicity and persona. The truth is always, always grittier and more difficult.

    I used to say that I hoped he was a fast learner. Now I hope he can learn something at all.

    Eric Blair (55a017)

  98. Judson and Cameron are mental midgets

    JD (6e32db)

  99. Well, it could be worse.
    We might find out that he was born in Kenya, and he was adopted by his White mother, and that Joe Biden should be President.
    Knowing this is just a nightmare certainly makes me feel better.

    AD - RtR/OS (f7103f)

  100. Eric, I’ve never seen a coherent explanation for why Biden was chosen as VP.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  101. Obama should raise taxes and any other changes only on the politicians. The politicians should be the guinea pigs to test whether or not raising taxes will help the economy. Let the politicians feel the pain first and then report back to the people. Take away their perks, and all special privileges associated with their government job. WE DO NOT WORK FOR THE POLITICIANS! THEY WORK FOR US! THE TAXPAYERS!

    Linda (901ac5)

  102. SPQR, I think Biden was choice #3 and the first two either turned it down, or had too many skeletons.

    Part of this might be his lack of any experience other than community “organizing” and a stint in two senates.

    Here is a good game. If you were Obama, who would you have chosen for VP?

    Eric Blair (55a017)

  103. He’s raising taxes back to the levels before this disaster. By your own very logic, this should be a good thing. Taxing mega corporations and trust fund babies isn’t what destroyed this economy. Giving them a free ride to do whatever they want is. We’re finally getting away from that.

    Wow have you Hope Wearing, Bumper sticker driving, welfare check accepting, mortgage bailout liberals gotten it wrong. Don’t you know Corporations don’t pay taxes because the tax codes allow them to write-off expenses all the way to the bottom of their balance sheets. it is the Middle Class in this country (250K annually) and under who actually bear the burden of taxation. Everytime you buy liquor, gas, commodities etc..YOU PAY TAXES! Raising taxes will only cause Small Businesses to close their doors. I suspect we will see a mass inlux of Sole Proprietors converting into S Corps over the next couple of months. Liberals become Republicans after they notice their tax bills…

    myinvesco (e62193)

  104. WOW I love Obama he is really pissing you all off and your prob all white I love it. He is in office because we voted him in and we won HaHa. He is doing a great job especially when he has a full plate of crap to handle. That we have to Bush to thank for now that our economy is shot to hell. Obama is trying to fix it instead off all you bloggers sending some positive messages all you do is talk crap about Obama. He is doing a geart job in such a short time he is getting shit done and not all talk he keeps on doing and he is doing what he thinks should be done because he is the President so all of you negative shit talkers just keep on talking crap but Obama is her to stay….. I hope for 8years because I will vote for him again. GO OBAMA……He should raise the taxes on the rich why not. Ok so you think it will trickle down to us when we as consumers to go shop well guess what you have a choice on where to shop… anyways…. and you guys are pissed off now which is good everyone has to be opinionated but man how are you guys going to deal with the immigration issues. I wonder did you all think Bush did a good job????

    Bw (6477d8)

  105. Eric, as for who I would have picked, that’s a good question. I would have gone ahead and chosen Hillary because I can’t think of a better place to have her out of the way and out of influence than VP. State dept was an idiotic choice IMO.

    As for Biden being #3, perhaps, but he should have been far far farther down the list.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  106. Oh, I am with you. I have detested Biden since watching those SCOTUS hearings. Multiple times, he was a character assassinating jackass.

    I knew the spotlight would:

    A. Reveal more trash in Biden’s background.
    B. Biden would be unable to shut up, and add to the mess.

    Now, why am I smarter than Obama? It shouldn’t be that way.

    Eric Blair (55a017)

  107. Income redistribution: why is this term if money goes to the middle class but not to the wealthy? For 8 years we redistributed the wealth in the form of tax cuts to the wealthy.. Wake up an try to reason some time. This is not a tax increase, it is putting the taxes back to where they were before the give away to the wealthy. Let them help pull the wagon for once. Corporations pay virtually nothing now.

    Try looking at what happened when Clinton raised taxes, everyone (inluding most of you) came out much better than you have over the last 8 years.
    I am sorry to be using factds to confuse most of you.

    Try actually reading the bill. Don’t ask the head of the Republican Party – Limbaugh – for help because he can’t use a pdf. file.

    It would help if you used your own words to describe Democrates. When you use terms like Princess Pilosi,and cultists, etc. you sound like a group of 5th graders on the playground mimicing the bullet points of the Right. Are you too lazy to look up facts and information on your own?

    Your fantasizing about having your every move controlled by Obama is quite amusing. You need to stop listening to Rush, Hannity, etc. and return to reality. It didn’t happen under Clinton but many rights were trampled upon under Bush but you didn’t seem to care then.

    Leslie (da6685)

  108. He’s raising taxes back to the levels before this disaster. By your own very logic, this should be a good thing. Taxing mega corporations and trust fund babies isn’t what destroyed this economy. Giving them a free ride to do whatever they want is. We’re finally getting away from that.

    What actually caused this entire mess, is the liberal idea (ACORN) that is based upon assuming that every person who takes a mortgage out on a house is deserving and will make it a priority to never default on that said mortgage. Giving mortgages to people who do not have an equity in the home (i.e )$0 Down or 125% of value is plain stupid and all politicians who twisted the arms of the banks, should have their heads on platters. Because of rising gas prices, coupled along with demand from out thrist for oil, we created a firestorm. When the people finally found out how the government allowed the derivatives market to prosper, they crucified the wrong party! It is the liberal idealism that will cause the fall of our great society and maybe even start a new civil war! With states trying to leave the union… I see this happening in about 2 years if something is not done. YOu cannot ask a states people to pay for the faults of other states, it is not right and will not be tolerated. Look what happened to Russia when it collapsed. i actually do believe Obama has a sinister goal in mind for this country…

    myinvesco (e62193)

  109. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the talking point bots do arrive in full force…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  110. “Are you too lazy to look up facts and information on your own?”

    Leslie – You apparently are. Repeating that Bush’s tax cuts were for the rich doesn’t make it true. Look up the distribution of who pays the taxes in the country by income decile before and after the cuts, mkay.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  111. Leslie, you don’t have any facts to confuse us with. That is because you are making up stuff. Actually tax data from the IRS shows that the share of taxes paid by the wealthy actually went up during the George W. Bush administration. That is, the percentage of total income tax receipts by percentile of income, shows that the tax burden shifted up and away from the middle class during those eight years.

    This intentionally dishonest class warfare theme from Democrats that you ignorantly parrot has become quite annoying.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  112. “many rights were trampled upon under Bush but you didn’t seem to care then.”

    Leslie – Can you be specific and not just repeat talking points on this one please?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  113. just to pay for the last 18 months of spending, Americans will be taxed up to 95% of their payroll. I don’t know about you, but I am a single dad – working two jobs just to make it. Why don’t you reward us with a subsidized babysitting program rather than taxing mileage we drive to work….the whole thing is stupid! I am trully afraid what this can lead to by 2014!

    Morgan Barecky (dc6946)

  114. Try looking at what happened when Clinton raised taxes, everyone (inluding most of you) came out much better than you have over the last 8 years.
    I am sorry to be using factds to confuse most of you.

    Try actually reading the bill.

    One, if your theory is true, why not raise taxes to 90% and make everybody rich ? The 10% left is for your political contributions, since you asked.

    Two, if reading the bill was so important, why didn’t your Congress critter do that before voting ?

    Huh ?

    Mike K (90939b)

  115. Here is the data, Leslie, and it shows you are an idiot. Look closely at Table 6. There you will see that the people with the top 1% of income paid a larger share of the total income tax burden after George W. Bush’s tax cuts in 2001 than before.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  116. Whenever someone admonishes to stop listening to Rush and learn the facts, said admonition is inevitably part of a factless spew of propaganda.

    Maybe I’ll have to start listening to Rush after all…

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  117. For 8 years we redistributed the wealth in the form of tax cuts to the wealthy..

    No, Leslie, that’s not true. Try to pay attention:

    In the beginning, the wealthy paid X% of their income in taxes. Then taxes were cut for everyone, and the wealthy paid X-Y% of their income in taxes. It was always their money, they just got to keep more of it. That’s not wealth redistribution.

    Further, those in the lower tax brackets got an even bigger cut in their taxes (as a percentage of their incomes). So, the not-wealthy got bigger tax cuts than the wealthy. Again, this isn’t wealth redistribution.

    To use your logic, if a thief steals your jewelry one week, then you lock up your jewelry and the only thing the thief can steal the next week is a pack of matches, you’ve engaged in redistributing wealth from the thief and his cohorts to you.

    Steverino (b12c49)

  118. My last sentence should read “There you will see that the people with the top 1% of income paid a larger share of the total income tax burden toward the end of George W. Bush’s administration than before.”

    SPQR (26be8b)

  119. You see the federal government now runs 3 sets of books ..

    1) the normal fiscal stuff
    2) the Social Security & Medicare funds
    3) the emergency stuff

    The “stimulus” was put on book set #3, while the balancing thing is to be done on book set #1.
    They have allready stolen just about everything from bookset #2.

    Unless you’re a Democrat, I don’t recommend doing this at home or in your business.

    Neo (cba5df)

  120. What a bunch of Bush lovers! You are so lame…Please kiss the Ring of Rush and other fools that think they actually know something. Rush if fat and a drug addict! Please go to Alaska and maybe you too will be able to see Russia!

    M Rich (c2082f)

  121. What I have a problem with is the American People voted for the mantle of Hope and in Barry. But what they got was more of the same!! Remember “I won” , how bout the speeches in Denver and Phoenix are of the campaign rally type. Every time he speaks (crisis 25 times in 1 speech) he tanks the Dow and my investments. He does not know anything about governing or he would be telling the American People that things are getting better, everything is looking brighter there are better days ahead, Not GLOOM AND DOOM, Henny Penny the sky is falling. You see the American People and the Mainstream Media screwed up and put this man in office, they put him on a pedestal above everyone. Many voted for him because of his skin color and not his ability to govern this nation. You can;t put a state senator, community organizer who has never owned a business or governed a state into the whitehouse and expect positive results. You see HUMPTY DUMPTY SAT ON A WALL, HUMPTY DUMPTY HAD A GREAT FALL, ALL THE KINGS HORSES AND ALL THE KINGS MEN COULD NOT PUT HUMPTY DUMPTY TOGETHER AGAIN. Exactly who do you think is Humpty Dumpty?

    Humpty Dump is ???????

    myinvesco (e62193)

  122. It would be interesting to know where these drive-bys are coming from.

    JD (6e32db)

  123. M Rich, why is it that Obama “lovers” are so juvenile?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  124. Instead of spending your time and energies contributing to the problems created by the previous administration, why don’t you spend your time doing something more productive than complaining.

    AL (7a16e0)

  125. The left may not have facts on their side, but they do have their talking points.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  126. Rush if fat and a drug addict! Please go to Alaska and maybe you too will be able to see Russia!

    More of the literati come to enlighten us.

    “M Rich,” I’ve been to Alaska. One of my jobs there was to patrol the Russian border, so I have seen Russia. Often.

    #102 Eric Blair:

    Here is a good game. If you were Obama, who would you have chosen for VP?

    Sarah Palin.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  127. This plan is a disaster waiting to happen, and not well thought out.
    Raising taxes on those that provide jobs is a job killer. The wealthy will find new ways to reduce taxes and hide their income.

    Cutting military budgets is a terrorists dream and a horrible way to plan the budget and puts our nation at risk. Terrorists will just wait until Obama cuts the defense budget and then attack or increase the violence in Afghanistan and Iraq. Cutting the defense budget also cuts jobs at home.

    Cheryl (a308cd)

  128. This plan is a disaster waiting to happen, and not well thought out.
    Raising taxes on those that provide jobs is a job killer. The wealthy will find new ways to reduce taxes and hide their income.

    Cutting military budgets is a terrorists dream and a horrible way to plan the budget and puts our nation at risk. Terrorists will just wait until Obama cuts the defense budget and then attack or increase the violence in Afghanistan and Iraq. Cutting the defense budget also cuts jobs at home.

    Cheryl (a308cd)

  129. I’m glad a Black got elected, why Because he’s going to ruin this country and people will never trust a negero again

    lou (e30dec)

  130. Instead of spending your time and energies contributing to the problems created by the previous administration,

    Er, which problems did you have in mind?

    why don’t you spend your time doing something more productive than complaining.

    Oh, believe me, I am! I’ve decided to forego about 2/3 of the revenue I was planning on making this year in order to reduce my tax liability as much as possible.

    In fact, I pretty much plan to spend the next several years on the financial sidelines (unless I get lucky in Vegas or something else ridiculously unplanned for) rather than working my butt off for ungrateful idiots like those who voted for the sitting President.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  131. Lou, if you’re going to be a racist, at least be a literate racist. “KKK’ shouldn’t be all that hard to spell.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  132. AL, can you coherently explain what it was that the “previous administration” did that created the problem and how Obama’s actions are changing it?

    lou, faked racist posts from liberals like the one you just made just show the dishonesty of Democrats.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  133. So a guy I didn’t vote for is initiating policies I don’t agree with – and I’m supposed to just be quiet?

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  134. There must be a troll hatch. They’re all over the place. Like locusts.

    Mike K (90939b)

  135. Like gamy locusts.

    Even John the Baptist would turn these locusts down.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  136. Hey, “lou!” Why doncha do us all a favor and find a nice deep well to hide your racist ass in, preferably until the end of your natural born life, so we don’t have to listen to your stuck on stupid.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  137. “Lou” is probably some libtard trying to be a “Moby” because as we all know, anyone who is not in love with Dear Leader MUST BE A RACIST AND A HATER!!!!ELEVENTY-TWO!!!111

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  138. EW1(SG), he’s a faux racist just trying to pollute our comments sections to be able to run back to left wing blogs and claim we are all as racist as his faked comment.

    Its the very height of left wing debate these days.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  139. It reinforces the popular belief on the left that any opposition to Bambi is based upon skin color.

    HV should be along any minute now to explain this to us.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  140. Wow, I have been reading all these comments. I am an ardent Obama supporter. First, race should have nothing to do with this board. Second, why don’t we wait and see how the economy is doing in a year before we bust a gut trashing our President? I know it’s easy to judge. I read articles by Warren Buffett and he loves Obama – I trust his judgement, personally.

    Peace to you all! Cassy

    Cassy (35d030)

  141. I really don’t understand this “let’s wait before we start pointing out the problems.”

    The outlooks on the Titanic would not be commended for waiting a little while longer to make sure it really was an iceberg.

    We’re pointing out that the USS America is about to strike an iceberg, and Bambi is busy rearranging the deck chairs.

    Hope!

    Change!

    Heckovajob, Bambi!

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  142. Bad stimulus package or not, terrible budget or not, what everyone fails to realize is that we were screwed before Obama even took office. Bush already had us in a trillion dollar deficit due to the war. In addition our public debt was over 5 trillion. And that people, can’t be fixed by anyone. We are heading for disaster no matter what policies are followed. Don’t you get that? Here is an interesting look at national debt you should read. http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm

    PM (0264c9)

  143. PM, you cite the debt but ignore that Obama is adding more to it in a couple of months than Bush did in years.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  144. It’s like he’s determined to replicate the clinton economy.

    imdw (57aa5a)

  145. imdw, that’s a silly comment as Clinton did not do anything remotely like this bloated faux “stimulus” bill.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  146. #137 SPQR:

    he’s a faux racist

    I am sure that that is what he/she thinks.

    But in fact, scratch a lib trying to moby up a thread with racist comments, and I guarandamntee that scratch the skin and you will find a real racist underneath.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  147. #138 steve miller:

    HV Cassy should be along any minute now to explain this to us.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  148. Cassy, dissent is the highest form of patriotism. We’re just being patriotic. Now you can return to your usual sycophantic haunt, and thanks for playing.

    Mossberg500 (392f23)

  149. EW1(SG) – I agree with you about the scratch the skin.

    It’s a classic case of projection. “I feel this way, but hide it. Those racist conservatives must feel the same thing, and they aren’t as good at hiding it.”

    Teh Narrative, you know.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  150. #146 EW1:

    HV Cassy should be along any minute now to explain this to us.

    Really sucks when I can’t spell <strike>.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  151. #148 steve miller:

    Teh Narrative, you know.

    Absolutely!

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  152. I am doing Bambi the honor of treating him as president, fully capable of making the right decisions, and responsible for all the bad decisions he’s making.

    Unlike some libtards, who treat Bambi like a delicate flower, who must be protected from questions, or like an intern, who is still learning on the job & who may get a job offer at the end of the try-out period.

    The Presidency of the U.S. isn’t a job-training program.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  153. #148 steve miller: In fact, I’ll go even further~because it’s all about “caring,” don’t you know.

    Well, the problem is, they don’t! If they did, we see massive protests supporting the reintroduction of DDT in African mosquito control or we most definitely wouldn’t have the caring and compassionate Left defending a totalitarian system that has trapped a billion or so people into a life of wretched slavery to the ideals of some mad desert bandit chieftain.

    Caring, my ass.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  154. Oops, meant to close with:

    And to me, that’s real racism.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  155. #139:

    First, race should have nothing to do with this board.

    Actually, hon, it didn’t~until you showed up.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  156. It’s not about caring.

    It’s about winning.

    The left has suckered the American blacks for 50 years. The result is Jim Crow (Democrat-sponsored) and slums. The left treats blacks like 2nd-class citizens who can’t think or make decisions.

    I would rather the day come where anyone who calls himself an American knows he has the right and the power to run his own life the way he wants without the permission and oversight of the government.

    A government powerful enough to give you what you want is powerful enough to take what it needs. And we’ll see that – we’ll be repaying this obscene spending through inflation and higher taxes for years, but people in power like Bambi will never suffer the consequences of their irrational economics. The people who believe in Hope! and Change! are the ones who will be saddled with paying off this fool’s gold mine.

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  157. Remind me never to post here again. There are some on this board who are so negative. I voted for Romney originally and then Obama, so I can see all points of view. The “hon” aside, my race comments were aimed at those who had brought up Obama’s race. You all can have fun on this board… wow. I’m going to realclearpolitics for some informative articles. I was just trying to explain my view and I got bashed for it. That’s a sad thing. Peace to you all.

    Cassy (35d030)

  158. I am sorry to be using factds to confuse most of you.

    That’s the funniest line so far – I’m waiting for the next Troll to claim that they’re really edumacated!

    We are heading for disaster no matter what policies are followed.

    That’s almost as hilarious, and I’m sure the commenter was quite charitable towards Bush during his 1st term. You know, just please, please give the man a chance!

    First, race should have nothing to do with this board

    It doesn’t, you twinkie. Please spend some time reading all of the posts on this site and try to understand the regular commentary and postings, we throw out the idiots who drive by and troll with noxious racist postings – every time.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  159. The “hon” aside, my race comments were aimed at those who had brought up Obama’s race.

    And we see that a grand total of…one Moby commenter brought up race, and yet you indict the entire thread based on that one idiotic and obviously Trolly post.

    I voted for Romney originally

    Oh, I’m quite sure that you’re telling the absolute truth on that one, right? Tell us now, are you also a Concerned Christian Conservative Voter who also happened to vote for Obama?

    I’m going to realclearpolitics for some informative articles.

    That pretty much explains the next comment:


    I was just trying to explain my view

    Right – by insinuating that this site is chock – full of racists…yes, you really only came here to discuss topics of interest.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  160. #155 steve miller:

    It’s about winning.

    At a cost of literally billions of lives.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  161. Cassy, consider yourself reminded.

    It’s got to be a hatch and a heavy one.

    A lot of people in this comments section were very unhappy with Bush over his failure to veto spending.

    By the way, why don’t we wait and see how the economy is doing in a year before we bust a gut trashing our President?

    How about we treat Obama with all the respect and tolerance the Democrats used with Bush ? OK ?

    OK, Cassy ? Or were you old enough to vote then ?

    Mike K (90939b)

  162. Wealth is created when excess output is created by allocating of labor in excess to what consumers wish to consume.

    For Gov.t to create wealth it must do the following better than the private sector

    1) Allocate labor to productive activities
    2) Get labor to produce more than consumers consume
    3) Ge consumers to to delay consumption by making it attractive to save.

    Think Government can do that better than the Million of Participants in the free market?

    Liberals are true morons of the highest order because to accept this is to ignore 200 years of free market benefits arising from the ashes of feudalism and totalitarianism.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  163. Cassy sure is a pussy. Waaaa, I am leaving!!!!

    Folks are soft nowadays. Heaven forbid they were raised in my neighborhood. They wouldn’t have made it home in the afternoon without crying.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  164. An awful lot of Richard Melville Hall types posting of late. I wonder why?

    Eric Blair (9671e0)

  165. Besides the point of someone who could vote for Romney AND Bambi – how exactly does that work? That they both were governors?

    That they both worked hard in government before they ran for office?

    That their lives are an open book?

    steve miller (9f5b63)

  166. Eric,

    Can you please fill in the Moby reference for me. I don’t get it and I am too stupid to figure it out.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  167. There are lots of people here posting under false pretenses, as in “Romney voter who is now an Obama supporter” or “concerned conservative Christian now supporting Obama.”

    Or the folks who post here (never seen before or since) claiming to be conservative and spouting racist nonsense.

    “Moby” is an Internet expression for someone who plays those kinds of games, IPs notwithstanding.

    It’s also Hall’s nickname.

    Eric Blair (9671e0)

  168. It’s like he’s determined to replicate the clinton economy

    You are completely ignorant of economics to make this statement.

    Clinton inherited an economy that had experienced 7 consecutive quarters of expansion before he was inaugurated. He benefited from the dotcom boom which sucked up a lot more workers than had been needed before; the seeds of the dotcom boom were already in place before Clinton took office.

    If you think that Obama, merely by raising taxes, will have the same economy Clinton inherited, you are an ignoramus of astronomical dimensions.

    Steverino (b12c49)

  169. “Moby” is an Internet expression for someone who plays those kinds of games,

    The name itself came from the noxious libtard musician himself, who suggested that his fans should flood conservative blog sites with that sort of nonsense.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  170. Personally, I hope that Obama at least rises to J, Carter’s level of incompetence during his term.

    Strikes me we may just survive, if he does.

    irongrampa (8332bb)

  171. #169 irongrampa:

    Personally, I hope that Obama at least rises to J, Carter’s level of incompetence during his term.

    One can only hope.

    Sigh.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  172. Cassy could be my ex- wife, now living the good trust fund life in Burlington, Vermont. The troll/Moby sure seems like a follower of dipwad Wayne Dwyer’s. I doubt she voted for Romney but I’m sure she’s like to fellate Obama. Seriously why can’t more posters here show the same respect for Chimpy O’Dumbo as moonbats showed for Bushitler for eight years? Yeah,I know conservatives are all racist and wish the half-breed would fail. I do indeed wish for this socialist grab to fail miserably. WE don’t need no stinkin’ repeat of FDR/LBJ/Carter. I see Rick Moran is calling for conservatives to play nice and not bash O’tard. And O’tard cares about America. I know Jews who voted for McCain who are convinced O’tard is beholding to Muslim interests. A distinct minority, but still. And the O! license stickers are plentiful here, along with old algore and lurch ones.

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  173. Moby the pussy has had to wear Depends ever since Eminem intimidated him and Moby stained his drawers. All those patriotic assclowns like Moby and Bruce Springsteen shoudl eschew capitalism and move to Cuba and take that ugly, smelly, fat propaganist Goebbels wannabe Moore with them. Cuba provides great health care, but Mikey would consume to many calories, starving more Cubanos.
    How much of that income redistributionist scam will effect the Kennedys, Gores, Lurchs, Breck Girl fortunes? I see Fat Teddy’s spouse is up to be his replacement. Love revisionist libtard history- JFK was great and prevented a nuclear war with his inspired diplomacy.hardee har har.

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  174. This “Tea Party” thing might really take off. More and more interest.

    It couldn’t happen to a better bunch of crooks. There’s a new Dodd scandal every day.

    Obama is the populism guy. It would be amusing if he was hoist on that petard.

    I’m sitting here listening to Lee Greenwood’s patriotic album and reading about tea party rebellion. Pretty cool.

    Mike K (90939b)

  175. “This “Tea Party” thing might really take off.”

    I think they’re having one in DC. Would be nice for Obama to come and show off his new ‘taxation without representation’ license plates.

    imdw (513533)

  176. I wonder if Freshman Rep Aaron Schock could be persuaded to hold one here in central IL.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  177. ______________________________________________

    lou, faked racist posts from liberals like the one you just made just show the dishonesty of Democrats.

    That’s why the following really shouldn’t have been surprising to anyone:

    Time magazine:

    Bernard Madoff, the former Nasdaq chairman who was charged on Thursday with massive fraud, was long considered to be quirky…..Madoff was a donor to the Democratic Party

    London Times:

    A TYCOON who made his fortune with BSM driving schools and Spudulike baked potato shops has emerged as the biggest British victim of the multi-billion-pound Madoff swindle.

    Lord Jacobs, 77, a former Liberal party treasurer, lost millions in the scam allegedly perpetrated by the Wall Street financier Bernard Madoff.


    ______________________________________________

    Mark (411533)

  178. Leslie wrote:

    Income redistribution: why is this term if money goes to the middle class but not to the wealthy? For 8 years we redistributed the wealth in the form of tax cuts to the wealthy.. Wake up an try to reason some time. This is not a tax increase, it is putting the taxes back to where they were before the give away to the wealthy. Let them help pull the wagon for once. Corporations pay virtually nothing now.

    Except, of course, that the wealthy were paying an ever-increasing share of the federal income tax. The base assumption behind Leslie’s comment is that all wealth is owned by the government, and it is some form of gift to people to be allowed to have more of their money back. I doubt that she’s ever put it that way, but that’s the assumption behind it.

    And she’s right about one thing, though I doubt she meant it quite this way: corporations pay virtually nothing now, but that’s because corporations don’t pay taxes at all; they simply collect taxes from their customers, and the end user of a given product is the one who pays all of the taxes on a good or service throughout its production and distribution chain.

    The economist Dana (556f76)

  179. Mr Miller wrote:

    So a guy I didn’t vote for is initiating policies I don’t agree with – and I’m supposed to just be quiet?

    Well, yes, of course; didn’t you get the memo? Please see our friends on the left for sterling examples of how to do this, 2001-2008.

    The conservative Dana (556f76)

  180. PM wrote:

    Bad stimulus package or not, terrible budget or not, what everyone fails to realize is that we were screwed before Obama even took office. Bush already had us in a trillion dollar deficit due to the war.

    For PM’s statement that the Iraq war caused a trillion dollar deficit, defifit referring to the annual budget deficit, the war would have to cost us $1 trillion a year. Fortunately, it doesn’t, and it has cost somewhere around $635 billion for the entire war, not per year.

    The FY2008 deficit came in at $455 billion. If you subtract the total FY2008 cost of the Iraq war, $133 billion, you still have a budget deficit of $322 billion.

    Let’s be very clear on this: the FY2009 budget deficit will be around a trillion dollars not counting expenditures for the war in Iraq. Figure in the $322 from FY2008 as a base, and then add the $700 billion financial systems bailout, and you are already over a trillion, even before whatever the Porkulus Bill adds to it.

    The mathematical genius Dana (556f76)

  181. I just tried to explain why capital gains tax cuts might help. What do you think the chances are that they will understand ? This is a standard lefty theme and they can’t get it.

    Mike K (90939b)

  182. Cassy wrote:

    Remind me never to post here again. There are some on this board who are so negative. I voted for Romney originally and then Obama, so I can see all points of view. The “hon” aside, my race comments were aimed at those who had brought up Obama’s race. You all can have fun on this board… wow. I’m going to realclearpolitics for some informative articles. I was just trying to explain my view and I got bashed for it. That’s a sad thing. Peace to you all.

    Well, I cannot speak for our esteemed host, but I don’t particularly want you to go away. To me, having people with differing points of view makes for better discussions.

    But this is a rough crowd, no doubt about it; when you say something, you have to be prepared for opposition, better be able to back up your position with data, and a thick skin helps here.

    The ever-polite Dana (556f76)

  183. i chuckled so hard reading the responses to my first and only post in this forum…spqr, are you psychic? you seem to think you know who and what i am. typical scared republican rhetoric. do you have a life beyond insulting others for their viewpoints. if republicans had their way we would still have slaves! and JD..once again you must be psychic too. thinking that your knowledge of economics is greater and better than mine. you dont know me at all. as i said in my first post, let me clarify…”sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me” is that simple enuff for you to comprehend? labor means human beings, not commodities for trade. republicans have become sore losers who want to take their ball and go home cause they are losers

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  184. and for the record..i am NOT democrat or republican.
    i am independent of narrow minded lemmings in both parties.

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  185. if republicans democrats had their way we would still have slaves!

    FIFY. (Read your history bob.)

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  186. 180 as his eminence lord Obamessiah admitted during the campaign- he realized that higher capital tax rates translated into lower tax receipts to the government BUT they needed to be raised in the interests of FAIRNESS. Just a clueless cretin when it comes to history or economics. I think he will release his genius level school grades when Lurch releases his long promised service records.
    If people aren’t making profits in the stock market what difference does it make what the rates are? The market sure looks like it approves of Barry Hussein’s ignorant minions’ effort at solving various money crises, eh?

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  187. if republicans had their way we would still have slaves!

    *chuckles*

    What party was Lincoln again?

    What party is the reason the Civil Rights Act passed?

    What party’s Governor stood blocking the school?

    Perhaps you could read an occasional book, as opposed to DKos?

    labor means human beings, not commodities for trade.

    Indeed. The thing is, when you tax companies more, they cut labor, or don’t hire MORE labor.

    republicans have become sore losers who want to take their ball and go home cause they are losers

    Yes. Well, we had several years of y’all’s lovely behavior to learn EXACTLY how to behave.

    Dissent is patriotic, remember?

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  188. if republicans had their way we would still have slaves!

    Damn, the stupid statements seem to be breeding.

    Bob judson, do you realize that the Republican Party was founded as an anti-slavery party in response to the Democrats?

    The fact that we don’t have slavery in this country is because of Republicans, not in spite of them.

    Steverino (b12c49)

  189. stashiu3..perhaps for once you might try using facts instead of changing everything from republican to democrat as i stated earlier. again you prove my point of judging others without knowledge of who they are.

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  190. and for the record..i am NOT democrat or republican.
    i am independent of narrow minded lemmings in both parties.

    And I’m the tooth fairy. You recite talking points from DKos, and you aren’t a Dem?

    See, THAT is how the MSN gets away with claiming they aren’t biased to the left…

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  191. steverino…the republican party is not what it was when founded..nor is the democratic party.. and this may suprise you but written history is not always reality

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  192. stashiu3..perhaps for once you might try using facts instead of changing everything from republican to democrat as i stated earlier

    Again, WHAT party was Lincoln?

    And while I’m thinking about it, the only party to ever “take their ball and go home” would be the Democrats…

    20 bucks says you do NOT get the reference…

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  193. bob, what I wrote was historical fact. It made no judgement about you, just your statement which was diametrically opposed to reality. As Scott and Steverino both explained in more detail, it was the Democrats that supported slavery and the Republicans who finally got it abolished. Same thing with the Civil Rights Act.

    Again, read your history.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  194. steverino…the republican party is not what it was when founded..nor is the democratic party.. and this may suprise you but written history is not always reality

    Then do cite your sources.

    You have made a claim not generally accepted, and I would very much enjoy seeing you back it up.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  195. this is almost becoming fun, now scott is psychic too. and by the way..i KNOW the tooth fairy and believe me you are no tooth fairy

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  196. Bob is a racist too.

    JD (6e32db)

  197. And you, son, are no independent.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  198. judson, the reality is that you don’t know any “facts”, and that’s why we find it funny that you so boldly assert your superior knowledge … even while doing silly ignorant things like ascribing slavery to Republicans.

    Claiming to be above insult while engaging in it isn’t impressive, judson. It puts you in the middle of the pack of the trolls.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  199. Moby ref explained, thanks.

    Bob Judson, it is a blog, if you write something be prepared to explain it and be prepared for others to interpret. Don’t be such a pussy.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  200. spqr, are you psychic? you seem to think you know who and what i am. typical scared republican rhetoric. do you have a life beyond insulting others for their viewpoints. if

    Nice grammatical usage there, Poindexter. You sure have me convinced.

    i am independent of narrow minded lemmings in both parties.

    …and I am edumacated!

    and this may suprise you but written history is not always reality

    As compared to the pinwheels revolving in your head?

    Dmac (49b16c)

  201. actually steverino my comment regarding slaves was no more than the same kind of rhetoric i have seen here. and frankly has little significance to the heart of this forum. not one person here has demonstrated viable alternatives to current policies. and no interest whatsoever in becoming part of a solution.its more of the “i guarantee this will fail” and “this is socialism” or “they are communists” mentality.

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  202. __________________________________________

    if republicans had their way we would still have slaves!

    Well, your simplemindedness — and what I’m sure is your sense that your political views are rooted in humaneness and compassion — forces me to drag this out again…


    Bleeding Heart Tightwads

    By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
    New York Times, December 20, 2008

    This holiday season is a time to examine who’s been naughty and who’s been nice, but I’m unhappy with my findings. The problem is this: We liberals are personally stingy.

    Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates.

    Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

    Other research has reached similar conclusions. The “generosity index” from the Catalogue for Philanthropy typically finds that red states are the most likely to give to nonprofits, while Northeastern states are least likely to do so.

    The upshot is that Democrats, who speak passionately about the hungry and homeless, personally fork over less money to charity than Republicans — the ones who try to cut health insurance for children.

    Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in nonfinancial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.

    __________________________________________

    Mark (411533)

  203. bj is our new TdJ!

    Another open-minded moderate.
    Don’t bend over, your brains might fall out.

    AD - RtR/OS (f7103f)

  204. Dmac, evidently it has figured out how to prevent the real world from invading its fantasies.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  205. not one person here has demonstrated viable alternatives to current policies.
    So you come on here for the first time, make a snap judgement based on little to no observations, and pronounce yourself correct.

    You post like a child, and display the reasoning abilities of same – how old are you, Bobby?

    Dmac (49b16c)

  206. i am independent of narrow minded lemmings in both parties.

    Lessee now, that would be both the frat parties, and the sorority parties, ’cause it’s never invited to either…

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  207. uber..just as no one else here has demonstrated facts or viable alternatives. im here to expose the ignorant rantings presented. you too reduce yourself to a level of name calling is there anyone here that can actually address the issues or is name calling and predjudice mandatory for posting here…this is really funny. who’s next to call me names..step right up. and btw dmac those are energy producing windmills!

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  208. bob, you’ve exposed nothing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  209. SPQR, this is why I just love the Trolls sometimes:

    actually steverino my comment regarding slaves was no more than the same kind of rhetoric i have seen here.

    Theydontevenbothertousegrammaticalprosetheyjustallowtheirinanestreamofconsciousnessidiocytocomethroughatwill

    bj is our new TdJ!

    A more appropriate moniker has never been named. BJ it will be, from now on.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  210. im here to expose the ignorant rantings presented. you too reduce yourself to a level of name calling is there anyone here that can actually address the issues or is name calling and predjudice mandatory for posting here

    Mymindisbusyicantthinkclearlywhydoesnoonetakemeseriouslyifriedmybrainsoutwithtoomuchredbullhelpimlockedinmymomsbasementsomeoneunlockthedoorihavetocleankittyslitterbox

    Dmac (49b16c)

  211. lmao dmac…i have read everyone of the over two hundred posts here. more name calling. you only reduce your own viability by resorting to the same efforts to put me down or to call me schoolyard names. and I am 55. how young are you?

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  212. Bob judson – whenever you wish to engage in the non-partisan post-racial post-partisan hoo-ha that you so dearly love, please let us know. In the interim, we shall continue to make fun of you and mock you for your feigned non-partisanship and pursuit of all that is good, all while doing nothing other than giving Teh Narrative a tongue bath.

    Oh, and your ignorance about slavery is simply breath-taking.

    JD (6e32db)

  213. #208 Dmac: As if I didn’t have enough pain above the collar already this evening…I now have to figure out how to retrieve taco meat covered in hot sauce from deep in my sinuses where it lodged quite forcefully sometime during the reading of your comment.

    At least the cat has stopped bothering me about wanting a taco.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  214. oh so now im reduced to a troll…this is becoming farcical…and dmac i dont use caps or grammar as you call it because its a pain in the ass when posting…you folks keep digging a deeper hole of ignorance…

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  215. bob, you are indeed a troll because your comments are empty of content.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  216. … if republicans had their way we would still have slaves!

    Bob, you stepped in it. Reverse and regroup. This crowd knows their stuff.

    Regardless of what Barack tells you, Lincoln was NOT a Democrat!!

    Patricia (89cb84)

  217. you only reduce your own viability

    Try boxers instead of briefs, but at your age…is it really a worry?

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  218. BJ – Man Up. Support your lie about how any of us have expressed prejudice, or how Republicans would still have slaves. Enlighten us. Until such point in time, you are just a verbose twatwaffle that will get treated with nothing but mockery and scorn. You are 55? Good Allah. Congrats. That had to be 55 long difficult years.

    JD (6e32db)

  219. i have proved my point..all you can do is call me names and make judgements based on nothing..can t any of you people show me why i should give you any respect for the way you attempt to villify me..i have tired of this silly game. no one here is able to talk intelligently

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  220. and I am 55.

    If true, then that’s the scariest grammatical prose we’ve witnessed here in quite some time. Are you not able to reach the keyboard with all of your fingers, or do you have flippers instead? Do you have to use your elbows? You cannot even construct a legible sentence containing comprehensible punctuation – please sue your grade school at your earliest convenience, you deserve your money back.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  221. judson can’t be 55 because if so, he would have been in elementary school back when the correct history of the Civil War was taught.

    This kind of ignorance he shows is far more modern.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  222. Bob, you whine about talking intelligently when you write the stupidity found in your comment #183?

    What crappy trolls we get these days.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  223. and dmac i dont use caps or grammar as you call it because its a pain in the ass when posting…

    Ah, I see – so you’re just a lazy douchebag. Glad you cleared that up.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  224. thanks for the entertainment…i hope you will spend many hours insulting me in my absence
    sincerly bobby

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  225. Congrats. That had to be 55 long difficult years.

    But he had happy years on the Short Bus, didn’t he?

    Dmac (49b16c)

  226. Bob, all you have brought is hypocrisy and a rather hilarious demonstration of your own ignorance and incoherence.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  227. Bobby, don’t go just yet – you need a more thorough beclowning before you’re safe to go out in public again.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  228. Come on, bj. Defend yourself. You called us all prejudiced and said Republicans would bring back slavery. Such bold statements should be easy to support.

    JD (6e32db)

  229. I have been too lax in my PP reading. I need to note that I tried to goto Lou’s website. Nope, I don’t need to buy anything from verizon. Yep, it was a verizon website. Nothing dishonest there, nope.

    I don’t remember seeing anyone claiming to be a “very conservative Christian” who voted for BHO. But I can guarantee anyone who is a very conservative Christian will look at PL v PC status of the candidate. If both main candidates are PC, the “very conservative Christian” will either vote for a third-party candidate or not vote on that portion of the poll.

    MSM and others would consider Pro-Life v Pro-Choice voters as “single issue” voters. As one of those “single issue” voters, I guarantee that isn’t a “single issue” issue. But it is a huge signifier. If you take a stand on the wrong side of the issue, you will necessarily be on the wrong side of many other moral issues. You will also necessarily be sliding down the slippery slope on other moral issues, even if you aren’t too bad about it (yet).

    Understand, this is the viewpoint of the “very conservative Christian,” and I am one of those. It is not possible for a member of such a sub-set of conservatives to vote for anyone who is so Pro-Choice that he supports abortion up to 2 hours after birth. Any who claim to be a “very conservative Christian” and claim to have voted for BHO is a liar.

    Now that I’ve spoken out about the total idiocy and falsehoods of some of these comments, on to the actual topic of the thread.

    It is easy to talk about these tax cuts GWB put in place and claim they are the problem. All you have to do is forget the fact GOP was required to water down everything with too much spending in order to get Dem votes in the senate. There has never been a time GOP has had a fillibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

    And, in case any forgot, GWB came into office the first time while doing everything he could to detach himself from the GOP in the legislature. He didn’t have much for coat-tails because he didn’t want coat-tails. GWB has always been centrist or center-right, to his (and the country’s) detriment.

    BHO’s plan to “soak the rich” has never succeeded in improving society. It is the rich, after all, who do the hiring. When is the last time someone making less than 20k a year actually had a full-time employee? And let’s not forget it’s not the government’s money that is being taken by taxes. All this “redistribution to the already-wealthy” talk is total idiocy. If you eliminate all taxes, those who gain will gain because it is their money, and not the collective’s money. Redistribution is taking from those who have and giving to those who do not have. It is not letting those who have keep what they have.

    I am tired of all those idiots who think they have a right to the money in the rich man’s wallet. If you are not that rich man, you don’t have a right to that money.

    Yeah, I’m on a tirade and I keep getting away from the topic at hand. Sorry.

    The more you tax the rich, the less “stuff” they buy. The less “stuff” they buy, the less “stuff” is sold. The less “stuff” is sold, the less “stuff” is produced. The less “stuff” is produced, the fewer jobs are needed. The fewer jobs are needed, the more people become destitute.

    The more you tax the rich, the less they invest in business. The less they invest in business, the less opportunity the businesses have to expand. The less opportunity the businesses have to expand, the fewer jobs are available to the new job-seekers. The fewer jobs are available, the fewer income earners. The fewer income earners, the fewer tax dollars taken in.

    The fewer jobs are available, the fewer income earners. The fewer income earners, the greater the burden on society to provide for the impoverished. The greater the burden on society to provide for the impoverished, the greater need for the government to tax the industrious.

    So higher taxes on the rich begets more hardship for the poor. And higher taxes on the rich begets even higher taxes on the rich. It is a vicious circle fed by one of the worst sins possible: envy.

    Proof positive a flat tax is far preferable to any graduated tax. The economy will be at its strongest with a flat tax. Let those idiots who envy the rich keep envying. Let everyone keep their own money. You know, that money the envious wants to steal. That money the libs in government actually do steal.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  230. Bob, you want to debate economics and finance with me? I suggest you get Krugman on the phone quick because this will be very short without him.

    Answer this:

    How is it that Countries or States with highest tax rates (Progressive Taxes too) are in the worst financial shape with the worst unemployment rates?

    With respect to your wanting an alternative to this situation? Here is a start, the Federal Government should pass a law allowing faster foreclosures by Mortgage Servicers. Giving Employers a FICA and Medicare Holiday if they hire more people — that is have regressive payroll taxation. Giving Banks who agree to “Principal Cram Downs” the right to collect their money back, with interest, should the defaultees sell “for a profit in the future.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  231. No, JD, bj said something even stupider.

    He wrote: “if republicans had their way we would still have slaves!

    Thereby demonstrating his utter ignorance of the creation of the Republican Party, and its involvement in the Civil War, and adoption of the constitutional amendments that ended slavery.

    Stupidity like that ought to hurt more.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  232. John, in general

    Tax cuts for rich increase INVESTMENT which means more jobs.

    Tax cuts for poor increase CONSUMPTION which means more income to reinvest.

    Obviously it is a continuum of outcomes and not a 0/1 thing.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  233. #229 John Hitchcock:

    I don’t remember seeing anyone claiming to be a “very conservative Christian” who voted for BHO.

    It was a rather common Moby refrain during the campaign season, as was “I am gonna retire from the military in a few weeks and I am all for BHO as CINC!,” of which I don’t remember a single one not being exposed as a fakir.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  234. The thing about umbrellas is they keep your head and shoulders dry while soaking the rest of your body.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  235. And the idea of Obama being CIC would be funnier if he weren’t the top of my daughter’s chain of command.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  236. Bobby,

    Lyndon Johnson: Master of the Senate

    You will be surprised to learn how the Democrat Party blocked Civil Rights in the Senate for decades.

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  237. thanks for the entertainment…i hope you will spend many hours insulting me in my absence

    “You won’t have bob johnson to kick around any more.”

    Patricia (89cb84)

  238. for the record..i am not afraid to admit that my comment regarding republicans and slavery in regards to historical accuracy was incorrect. that said, i wonder if any of you intellectual retards can do anything except copy and paste and call me silly names. i doubt it based on what i see here. one thing is quite obvious though. Some of you need to turn off your computers and rejoin the real world. would your mothers approve of your rude and inappropriate behavior here…where you hide behind a computer and the anonymity of the internet? i was wrong to assume i would find decent people in a political blog. oops i called you a name..shame on me..rotflmao

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  239. Patterico is slick.

    He does not type “raise taxes for the wealthy” in the title. Rather, he types “raise taxes” period, because this seems like a tax increase to all Americans. Only later in the message body does he clarify. Patterico knows that Americans in general are very unlikely to feel saddened by a tax increase on the rich.

    Andrew (819f4f)

  240. Yo, Patterico! I think you’ve got a budding headline writer looking for a gig. Anything you can do, I can do better…

    Andrew, how do you think the middle class to poor folks who are getting a tax increase on April 1st feel about it, given Obama’s promise not to raise their taxes?

    Pablo (99243e)

  241. “You will be surprised to learn how the Democrat Party blocked Civil Rights in the Senate for decades.”

    – steve miller

    The flip-side of that is that Johnson was the one who finally got meaningful legislation passed. But yeah, you’re right (more or less): I’m reading “Master of the Senate” now, and it’s pretty obvious how hard Johnson had to push to break the hold the Dixiecrats had on the Senate – leading to the implementation of Southern Strategy in subsequent elections, and the realignment of the parties, but that’s another argument.

    Leviticus (43095b)

  242. “i wonder if any of you intellectual retards can do anything except copy and paste and call me silly names.”

    Is there some viral disease among Democrats that causes so much projection?

    SPQR (72771e)

  243. that said, i wonder if any of you intellectual retards

    Bobby pulls up his Depends and makes a bigger arse of himself than anyone thought possible.

    Some of you need to turn off your computers and rejoin the real world.

    …says the commenter who posted this at 5:12 AM this morning.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  244. Meanwhile, it looks like the deficit for FY 09 will be more than 2 trillion if not 2.5 trillion. Deficit spending not seen since WWII.

    SPQR (72771e)

  245. But this is different – after all, Dear Leader has proclaimed it “the greatest economic disaster since the Depression.” So that settles it, then.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  246. This is an emergency plan, which is why it wasn’t posted on the White House website for public comment for 5 days, like all of the other bills passed since January 20th…

    “bob judson” is 55 years old and finds time to post on the internet using all lowercase and spelling enough “enuff” – color me skeptical. Or, if true, color his mother disappointed.

    carlitos (ebd4ab)

  247. I have to agree with carlitos. I am very skeptical of anyone who claims to be older than me but cannot find the “shift” key or spell more accurately. While grammatical and punctuation requirements were starting to be relaxed before I entered school, those requirements have all but vanished now. Anyone my age or older, as BJ has claimed to be, is much more careful with such requirements. Heck, people I know who are my age or above and internet savvy have much better grasp of language than does BJ.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  248. Hard to say for sure. But those of us who learned to type on typewriters are, for the most part, much more accurate. You had to be, because that “correction key” always looked pretty icky on terms papers and such.

    That lower case lacking punctuation business makes everything look like bad free verse.

    But the deeply sad part of this whole issue is thus: whack one mole, and another one pops up.

    There is no good solution.

    Eric Blair (9671e0)

  249. i am not afraid to admit that my comment regarding republicans and slavery in regards to historical accuracy was incorrect.

    Oh, bullshit, bob. The first thing you said when you were called on this idiotic statement was that Republicans today aren’t the same party as Republicans then. You did anything but admit your error.

    that said, i wonder if any of you intellectual retards can do anything except copy and paste and call me silly names

    I don’t have to call you silly names, bob. You’re doing a fine job of showing just how many silly names really do apply to you.

    If you want an honest debate, don’t try to weasel out of your mistakes.

    Steverino (69d941)

  250. I learned to type on a manual typewriter. Dang, that hurt my fingers. And I went through a lot of correction tape.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  251. I still remember the first IBM Selectrics, which had the first correction keys. Awesome stuff, I hated that White – Out crap, it always looked terrible after you used it.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  252. for the record..i am not afraid to admit that my comment regarding republicans and slavery in regards to historical accuracy was incorrect. that said, i wonder if any of you intellectual retards can do anything except copy and paste and call me silly names.

    What is sad is that I am paying tuition for my daughter to be taught this stuff. Fortunately, she has been exposed to more of the world and is sensible, unlike this child.

    Bobby, why not read the history of anti-lynching legislation in Congress and then the Civil Rights Act in 1964?

    My daughter’s American History since 1877 course was all about white men and how evil they are. The textbook is about “whiteness studies.” It is no wonder that this sort of educational malpractice produces what we see here. An uneducated but absolutely self certain fool.

    And they vote, of which we so recently saw evidence.

    Mike K (90939b)

  253. I, for some reason, am finding that some members of this blog/pre-k schoolhouse cannot go beyond their own juvenile name calling to actually talk to an individual who has differing viewpoints than themselves. SPQR… Do you work? Do you pay taxes? Do you volunteer in your community? Do you donate to charity? Shall I send you a copy of my birth certificate to prove my age? It is odd that many of your posts are during “working” hours. Perhaps you own a small business and have enough free time to be the poster boy for this group. Dwelling on the fact that I follow modern? internet practices by tossing grammatical rules aside is futile and pointless. Can you answer the questions I put forth? Perhaps you will just think up more imaginative names to hide behind. The comments above also apply to Mr. Dmac, Mr. Hitchcock and Ms. Patricia. You all (or Ya’ll) really seem to believe in the the juvenile behavior in which you engage. Tag, “yer” it.

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  254. bob, when you end your own juvenile namecalling, maybe we’ll bother to read beyond the first hypocritical sentence in your comment.

    But obviously that won’t be today.

    SPQR (72771e)

  255. We’re too busy trying to bring back slavery to bother with your ilk, bj.

    JD (677a23)

  256. Dwelling on the fact that I follow modern? internet practices by tossing grammatical rules aside is futile and pointless.

    Its behavior I would expect from my teen daughter and her friends, not from a fiftyish juvenile who is desperate to be taken seriously.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  257. I guess no one noticed that I took the time to present my case using the grammar that I had to learn in school in order to advance. EW1(SG), using your daughter as an example of how poorly educated she is in today’s teen day care centers aka schools really shows how shallow you must be. Desperate? I think not. The truth is that everything that i have witnessed here is inconsequential with regards to solving anything…admittedly my participation here wont change a damn thing either, I am having a great time watching all of you (ya’ll) dig deeper and deeper holes in your convictions. I have come up with several variations on your acronym (or is it your initials) SPQR. Oh, SPQR, are you too cowardly to answer my questions?

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  258. bob, you don’t have any questions – all you’ve presented are the kind of juvenile insults you purport to be above.

    Meanwhile, the Obama administration’s poor performance is driving the market to new lows as the market figures out that Obama and his crew of tax dodgers are dolin out Democratic pork and fiddling while Rome burns.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  259. I personally think the stimulus is not big enough. How about another billion to some deserving hardworking area, say, Gaza?

    Patricia (89cb84)

  260. Well, great idea, Patricia, if you are trying to “stimulate” Grad-P rocket production.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  261. Bob, what is your question dear?

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  262. OUA, since Bob has to account for his missing nap time, he thinks everyone else must also.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  263. I just want to know what he is so eager to learn.

    Do you know so I can reply?

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  264. OUA, his “questions” are in #252 where he wants me to fill in his stalker’s notebook.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  265. SPQR, don’t you think that “bob” sounds a little familiar, at least in this new incarnation? Hmmm.

    Eric Blair (9671e0)

  266. case using the grammar that I had to learn in school in order to advance.

    Gosh, it’s obvious that you had some kind of education per se – you know, the type of teaching that ignores the basics and goes straight to the dogma.

    Oh, SPQR, are you too cowardly to answer my questions?

    Little Bobby’s “grammar lessons” apparently never covered the word projection. But then again, Bobby had the unfortunate habit of crapping his pants continuously, so maybe he missed that specific lesson.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  267. #262, if those are his question then I am not sure what it has to do with anything.

    But if that is the type of thread Bob wants… it is just as relevant to it … Bob, what is the maximum girth you’ve taken? Did it hurt? Will you ever try to top your own record?

    Obama über alles!!!!! (da3d2f)

  268. Eric, yep. Quite familiar.

    You like the questions about what I do for a living? ( Hint, I’ve been writing and filing pleadings off and on all day, and I’m polishing a legal brief even now that I’ll file tonight – the evil of e-filing systems )

    Oh, and Bob, as for volunteering, I spent all day last Saturday teaching sixth graders from one of the poorest performing schools in the local metro school district how to use the public library as part of the youth enrichment program I donate time to. But that’s because I’m Conservative and so give more of my time and money than left wingers do.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  269. If this weren’t so pathetic it might make for a great case for euthanasia. That is admirable that you, like myself, do volunteer in your neighbor hood. As for your legalese, what you say about me is mere hearsay and has no basis in fact. As to declaring I am a stalker, again, what factual basis do you use? None would be my answer. The repeated immature nature of your comments demonstrates your inability to talk like a an adult. The fact that you are paranoid to answer the legitimate questions i have asked you further illustrates your diminished mental state. If indeed you are a lawyer, do you use this type of drivel in front of the Judge? As for those blindly lining up to add to SPQR’s method of avoiding reality, being rude and insulting, shame shame. Anyways, this is really rather futile to expect any of you to converse in a responsible manner..I shall continue my quest for the elusive republican willing to offer factual solutions to the nations economic woes elsewhere in the sewers of the internet. “Have a nice day”.

    P.S. I am an architect, an engineer, a builder of sensible homes and a life long community volunteer. Now that I am comfortably retired and living in the “middle of nowhere” on my beautiful wooded acreage, I am using my life experiences to enrich the lives of those around me. And I am very proud to say that I have never needed to hide behind a lawyer to resolve the conflicts I have faced over the years….Bet ya’ll can waste many more hours of valuable time trying to discredit my remarks. But hey i don’t really give a hoot. And one last thing.. please stop guessing at whether I am Leftwing, Rightwing, or even a Redwing. I am Abovewing..i think for myself.

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  270. If this weren’t so pathetic it might make for a great case for euthanasia.

    Color me offended at your homicidal statement.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  271. Comment by bob judson — 2/24/2009 @ 10:09 am
    Probably a scratch-golfer, and active in the import-export industry, too.

    AD - RtR/OS (8de25e)

  272. bob,

    God
    Forgives
    You

    When you get back on your meds, we’ll talk… m’kay?

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  273. John, you know that this person is just a sock puppet of someone else you already know, right?

    Eric Blair (9671e0)

  274. AD, you read it that way, too?

    Eric Blair (9671e0)

  275. We’re waiting, Bob, for the part where you demonstrate thinking for yourself.

    SPQR (72771e)

  276. The world is filled with these pathetic little shits who just can’t comprehend the message:
    Grow Up, or Go Away!

    Perhaps we deserve a decade of hard times?
    It certainly could thin-out the gene-pool.

    AD - RtR/OS (8de25e)

  277. EB, while I’ve only been on this site since January, BJ seems a bit familiar. I have to admit I can’t read through the entirety of his drivel and hate and ad hominem. His paragraph structure is painful to navigate. But, yes, what I’ve read does look familiar.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  278. P.S. I am an architect, an engineer, a builder of sensible homes and a life long community volunteer.

    And I am the King of Siam, Harptard.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  279. Now that I am comfortably retired and living in the “middle of nowhere” on my beautiful wooded acreage,

    You forgot the rest of your talking points:

    – all of your children are wealthy, happy and incredibly successful;

    – you’re in the import/export business, and have a deep and expert knowledge about other countries, their native populations and how the world really works;

    – you are a former Republican, but Bush was just too much for you, so now you’re forever for Teh One;

    – The GOP is wacist, stoopid and full of idiots, unlike someone like you, who is wise, awesomely talented at everything he does, and is always correct in his thinking, no matter the subject.

    – you also live in a huge mansion, with a yard the approximate size of Yellowstone National Park.

    I think that about covers your well – worn memes from the past.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  280. I don’t know why I don’t just ditch this link completely. You people are truly sick. I repeat myself..again…all you can muster is to be rude, insulting and juvenile. I would love the opportunity to debate any one of you, face to face, without you being able to sound like a historiam because of you’re skill at using the internet. As for you Hitchcock, I’ve reserved a spot at the front of the line for you. Right behind Dmac and Stupid Pathetic Quasi-Retard. (OMG. i’m stooping to your level.) Damn this is so entertaining, almost as good as listening to Bobby Jindals response to our president’s speech last night. in regards to your ASSumptions Dmac, your psychic abilities have failed you. let me clarify. My 2 youngest adult children are currently living with my wife and I.
    this is due to economic stagnation.
    I am not involved in any imports or exports business. I an an independent (can you read?). The GOP generally respects the President and supports his efforts to solve our countries financial crises. It is only the far far right of center Republicans that are still trying to sabotage any efforts to solve this nations problems. “free” market attitudes and the elimination of many regulations have allowed banks like Citi and Bank of America to become legal loan sharks by pushing credit cards to America’s youth. I live in a modest 700 sq ft cabin and I’m not greedy, I only have 47 acres. Oh….my lack of “perfect” grammar is irrelevant, get over it

    bob judson (15ab9b)

  281. You obviously have not read the stimulus bill. Its unfortunate that most bloggers who are very vocal about their opinions dont really know anything about what they are saying. They have no political science education or economic training. this goes for both ideologies.

    nathan (60ffe5)

  282. You obviously have not read the stimulus bill.

    Nor did the people who voted for it.

    Pablo (99243e)

  283. Let me make sure I’ve got this right, bob. You’re a home builder and you’ve got 4 adults living in 700 square feet? Do you all sleep in the same bed?

    Pablo (99243e)

  284. #282It is only the far far right of center Republicans that are still trying to sabotage any efforts to solve this nations problems.

    So your logic says that pissing away a few trillion dollars of tax payer money to companies that are incredibly bad at business is a great idea that will save America. I guess that fits with your other logic about credit card companies alone are responsible from people living beyond their means. I suppose your logic also claims that mortgage companies are alone responsible for people buying homes they knew they could not afford.

    Now if I do bad business I eat it and possibly my company goes belly up, but if the government is going to keep bailing me out then I have no incentive to correct the error of my ways.

    ML (14488c)

  285. Hey, BJ, what can I do to get to the head of the line? I know I’m further right (more right) than Dmac and SPQR. Let me know how I can get to the head of the line. I really want to be at the head of the line in your mind. It would so make my day to know an absolute ignoramus like you considers me to be more dangerous to your adamantly ignorant factless belief system than anyone else. Please, please tell me how I can become ever more fact-based, history-based, logic-based so I can get to the front of the line. And I’m sure my convoluted paragraph structure in this comment will aid you in being able to adequately read this. After all, grammar and sentence structure and paragraph structure are only important to people with a brain.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  286. “You people are truly sick. I repeat myself..again…all you can muster is to be rude, insulting and juvenile.”

    Bob, do you suffer from incurable hypocrisy or are you just too dim to realize how hilarious it is for you to write those two sentences together?

    Really. It is clear who needs to grow up.

    SPQR (72771e)

  287. Yes, SPQR, but if he did that, he would have to become a Republican.

    AD - RtR/OS (cd7b06)

  288. “My 2 youngest adult children are currently living with my wife and I.

    Parenting FAIL.

    SPQR (72771e)


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