Patterico's Pontifications

2/13/2009

How Long Will Obama Give Us to Read the Stimulus?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:49 am



As I recently noted, Barack Obama made the following pledge during his campaign:

Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.

For a 1419-page bill that speed readers couldn’t read, which hasn’t even been read by the Congressmen themselves, and which spends so much money they invented a new number for it, careful review will be critical.

How much time will President Obama give the American people for this review, do you think?

124 Responses to “How Long Will Obama Give Us to Read the Stimulus?”

  1. Only the “Little People” have to keep their promises.
    The “inconvenient truth” is that the political classes don’t give a tinker’s damn about those that have to pay the freight, and what they say is just camouflage for what they will do –
    Boob bait for the Bubba’s!

    Is it time to re-instate the “Obama Sucks!” campaign?

    AD (1b89c0)

  2. Wouldn’t this bill be considered an emergency bill?

    G (722480)

  3. If it’s for an emergency, G, why does most of the spending wait until next year or later to kick in?

    I think the reports that lobbyists were more aware of what was in the bill than Congress critters was quite telling, myself.

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  4. Obama will announce that since no one can read it in 5 days, it’s not worth posting at all.

    Steverino (69d941)

  5. The Democrats don’t want anyone to read this bill. The real question is what will happen if they can’t win a cloture vote in the Senate ? That will stall the bill and the House Democrats have threatened to go back to their early version and shut out the few features that were added to pacify the three Republican judas goats. If Susan Collins balks, we may see a prolonged debate with all the nasty little easter eggs exposed. One of them, we know, is the rollback of welfare reform. I’m sure there are more that will not stand the light of day.

    Specter, of course, is hopeless. Why Bush supported him over Toomey in 2002 is more and more a mystery. He got paid off with an earmark. Nothing new.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  6. The Democrats know that giving people time to read it is just going to create opportunities for criticism and embarassment for them. As a practical matter, they are going to ram it down everyone’s throats. Why do they have any incentive at all to give people time to read it? The can just keep fear mongering and claim an urgent (heh, given the timing of the spending) need to get it passed as the reason for a rush to a vote.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  7. Depends. Sometimes I need a day to read a book if it is interesting. Other times I am still reading the same book after six months! How long do you need to read the stimulus?

    Emperor7 (0c8c2c)

  8. Since most of congress is not taking the appropriate amount of time to peruse the entire bill, the plebian public can expect no better treatment.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  9. Yeah, how long does anyone really need to read the omnibus bill, anyway? After all, it’s only our money and our future at stake. So just pass it, already!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  10. And not to worry about yet another broken campaign promise.

    Hope and Change!

    We have to all get on board and help the new President. Because that is what the Left did in 2000 and 2004.

    Oh, wait. That was different!

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  11. And more:

    Democrats Delay Bill Release to Conceal Details
    Democratic staffers released the final version of the stimulus bill at about 11 p.m. last night after delaying the release for hours to put it into a format which people cannot “search” on their home computers.

    Instead of publishing the bill as a regular internet document — which people can search by “key words” and otherwise, the Dems took hours to convert the final bill from the regular searchable format into “pdf” files, which can be read but not searched.

    Three of the four .pdf files had no text embedded, just images of the text, which did not permit text searches of the bill. That move to conceal the bill’s provisions had not been remedied this morning at the time of publication of this article. (You can find the entire bill on the House Appropriations [http://appropriations.house.gov] website.)

    Pablo (99243e)

  12. Oh, i’m not saying that this bill is usefull, I’m just saying the simple argument is that it is an “emergency bill” and doesn’t count under this. I don’t agree with it though, heh.

    G (722480)

  13. It all depends on the meaning of “is,” I guess.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  14. “Depends. Sometimes I need a day to read a book if it is interesting. Other times I am still reading the same book after six months! How long do you need to read the stimulus?”

    Lovey – Was the above seriously intended as an answer to Patterico’s question?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  15. Bipartisanship really sucks.

    OTH,

    “Constitutional Amendment Idea [Iain Murray]

    Amendment to Article I, Section 7 that reads:

    Before voting on any Bill, a Senator or Representative shall certify to the President of the Senate or Speaker of the House respectively that they have read the Bill in full.”

    Dana (137151)

  16. I’d like to give them tests on that, Dana, and eject them if they haven’t read the bills.

    It’s their job, after all.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  17. You are still on moderation, Daley. Until I see signs of change and good behavior from you.

    Anonymous (0c8c2c)

  18. Well Obama will still respect us in the morning—or something like that. We’re still well and truly screwed.

    Mike Myers (674050)

  19. G, there’s also the promise to post the bill for 48 hours before a vote. Broken. More here.

    Pablo (99243e)

  20. Was the above seriously intended as an answer to Patterico’s question?

    I have to assume that your question was rhetorical.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  21. Before voting on any Bill, a Senator or Representative shall certify to the President of the Senate or Speaker of the House respectively that they have read the Bill in full.

    Nah: “Before voting on any Bill, it must be read in its entirety to the voting body. Any Senator or Representative not present through the entirety of the reading may not vote upon the Bill.”

    For added fun, allow interruptions and questions during the reading.

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  22. According to Mike Huckabee, it would require someone read 640 wpm for 13 consecutive hours without bathroom breaks to read the entire “stimulus” bill.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  23. And there’s a Republican Senator who wants to actually read the whole thing on the senate floor before anyone gets the chance to vote up or down on it.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  24. Last book I read that was 1419 pages was Gone With The Wind

    The paradox is just striking

    EricPWJohnson (94a0be)

  25. Like Erin Brockovich said, I’m a slow reader. I read a bit faster than I can speak, but since I “hear” everything I read I can’t really get very fast. It would likely take me 48 hours of reading time to get through the whole thing. 6 hours a day of reading would mean 8 days before the whole thing was read. Comprehension and retention would be very poor as well.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  26. Pablo and all:

    My editors are looking at this bill right now, taken from Pelosi’s site. That one can be searched. But it might be an earlier version. How can I make sure we have the latest version?

    Also, if you find anything especially egregious, post it here, and I’ll let my editors know.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., who implores DRJ to remain at Patterico! (e24bda)

  27. Nancee Peelousy is leaving for Italy at 5pm so we can’t possibly be bothered with little chattering class complaints about reading bills or understanding bills or pork. That’s so Bush Administration.

    eaglewingz08 (c46606)

  28. Pelosi leaves for Rome while America burns…..

    Rovin (a5d8b7)

  29. I can search .pdf files. I wonder what else the did to hide their theft and power grabs?

    “There is plenty to complain about for everyone, and perhaps that’s the sign of a good compromise,” said U.S. Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, a Missouri Democrat. “Regardless of party, we all cast our votes with one hand and crossed our fingers with the other.”

    PCD (7fe637)

  30. Zero House Republicans voted for the bill today. Two did not vote. Seven House Democrats voted against the bill. One did not vote.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  31. How long will Obama give us to read the stimulus? If the actual people voting on the bill haven’t even read it and apparently don’t need to, why would we?

    Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) is now openly admitting that that no one voting on the bill will have read it, a problem made worse by a select group of Democrats secretly hammering through final changes.

    Mark Hemingway adds,

    Just a few weeks in office, and we already have the President enabling and encouraging one of the least transparent processes imaginable to muscle through an $800 billion spending bill. Does the administration think this amounts to change, or should I wait for them to get their new website, worsethanever.gov, up and running?

    Dana (137151)

  32. PCD, from what I understand, large portions of the pdf files are images. Take a picture of the pages and put up the picture. I don’t know how to do a search within a picture.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  33. Gibbs is saying they expect Obambi to sign the bill Monday or Tuesday. Which is to say that you ain’t getting 5 days to look at the biggest, most expensive bill ever signed into law.

    Pablo (99243e)

  34. Great connection!

    How can anyone support such a shameless liar?

    drjohn (c297c5)

  35. Optical character recognition (OCR) can convert images to searchable text.

    Also, my editors are most interested in projects concerning San Diego and Riverside counties. So the Army of Davids is cordially asked to post such items here — and thanks to our esteemed proprietor for making this possible.

    This is how modern journalism is supposed to work.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., who implores DRJ to remain at Patterico! (e24bda)

  36. Here’s an idea. Every bill which creates spending of more than 100 million is required to be read in its entirety, word by word, on the floor of the House and Senate before a final vote is taken. Anyone caught napping or text messaging about lunch has their vote canceled. No bathroom breaks except for nausea over the sums of money involved. The reader shall be selected from either the current dominant party leadership, or the last 10 Oscar winners. That assures a slow and thorough reading since everyone of these people love the sound of their own voice too much to rush through it.

    However, any and all true tax reduction bills need only a show of hands. No quorum silliness, either.

    allan (ee3dc2)

  37. I liked how a prominent Democrat waved the “stimulus” package in the air in a show of theatrics and Lindsey Graham (D – SC) waved the “stimulus” package in the air in a show of theatrics, followed by that hoi polloi CA Democrat’s attempt at castigating Graham for his theatrics. No mention whatsoever of the Dem guy who did it first. Integrity? Honest debate? Or theatrics of her own?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  38. Just how partisan can you racists be ?!

    JD (09132b)

  39. Oops, Lindsey Graham (R – SC)

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  40. No, I think you got it right the first time…

    And I bet it will be 2 days, tops.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  41. Yeah, I think John got it right the first time as well. As for the Dem senator who was caught waving her arms in the air, I believe that was the incredibly noxious Boxer from CA.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  42. I guess new and hopiness and changeyness will have to wait. Has there ever been a bigger non-budget bill than this? $800,000,000,000 and Baracky, SanFranNan, and Harry cannot be bothered with even letting the fuckin Congresscritters read the bill?

    JD (09132b)

  43. Hey, she’s my Senator, and I resent she resembles that remark.

    AD (f89ba6)

  44. Interesting comments over at youtube regarding the number of views on the video of Boehner on the floor pointing out that no member of Congress has read the complete bill. It seems that the view counter is stuck on 206 and there are 682 comments on the video. Some posters think it’s a youtube/google conspiracy to minimize the popularity of the video.

    PC14 (82e46c)

  45. Andrew “The Conservative Soul” Sullivan says:

    A Republican party that added more than $30 trillion to the future debt in a time of boom has no credible answer but raw partisanship for opposing $800 billion in the swiftest downturn in employment since the Great Depression. That’s the bottom line. The party that campaigned for eight years on the principle that “deficits don’t matter” has no good faith standing to oppose a measure that provides the minimum to ensure some kind of bottom in the looming depression.

    Respect Andrew Sullivan’s Authority!

    Joe (dcebbd)

  46. “Democrats Delay Bill Release to Conceal Details
    Democratic staffers released the final version of the stimulus bill at about 11 p.m. last night after delaying the release for hours to put it into a format which people cannot “search” on their home computers. ”

    I followed the link and it was searchable. Did you try it Pablo?

    Its on the white house website now too.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/arra_public_review/

    “Every bill which creates spending of more than 100 million is required to be read in its entirety, word by word, on the floor of the House and Senate before a final vote is taken. Anyone caught napping or text messaging about lunch has their vote canceled.”

    The stupid is strong on this one.

    imdw (8bb588)

  47. imdw, do you seriously mean to suggest that every word of this stimulus bill will be read on the House and Senate floors?

    I’ll bet you a lunch that you’re wrong.

    Don’t worry, I don’t eat much.

    Steverino (69d941)

  48. “imdw, do you seriously mean to suggest that every word of this stimulus bill will be read on the House and Senate floors?”

    No i mean to explicitly call that stupid.

    imdw (513533)

  49. “The party that campaigned for eight years on the principle that “deficits don’t matter””

    Funny, I don’t remember that slogan.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  50. I should have read the thread more, imdw, I thought you were quoting from a White House site.

    I don’t think it’s so stupid for the people to require their representatives to read the laws they’re passing. I don’t think it’s stupid to expect Congress to know exactly what it’s spending money on. It’s their job, after all.

    If this bill is too big to be read in its entirety…then that would lead me to conclude this bill is too big.

    Steverino (69d941)

  51. The stupid is strong on this one.

    One question – has your local Rep. or Senator actually read the bill? I’d be very careful about calling anyone stupid if the answer is negative.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  52. “One question – has your local Rep. or Senator actually read the bill? I’d be very careful about calling anyone stupid if the answer is negative.”

    I doubt they do that for most of what passes congress.

    “I don’t think it’s so stupid for the people to require their representatives to read the laws they’re passing. I don’t think it’s stupid to expect Congress to know exactly what it’s spending money on. It’s their job, after all.”

    I think they know what this bill entails. I don’t think each congressman has to read it. I also think that each congressman reading it won’t make them any smarter on what this bill entails. In fact i think it would get in the way of them hearing about it from their staffers or hearing summaries of it.

    imdw (2d0308)

  53. “One question – has your local Rep. or Senator actually read the bill? I’d be very careful about calling anyone stupid if the answer is negative.”

    I doubt they do that for most of what passes congress. Do you think they read all that stuff?

    “I don’t think it’s so stupid for the people to require their representatives to read the laws they’re passing. I don’t think it’s stupid to expect Congress to know exactly what it’s spending money on. It’s their job, after all.”

    I think they know what this bill entails. You think the republicans voting against don’t know what it entails? I don’t think each congressman has to read it. I also think that each congressman reading it won’t make them any smarter on what this bill entails. In fact i think it would get in the way of them hearing about it from their staffers or hearing summaries of it.

    imdw (8bb588)

  54. Let’s see, the largest pork bill in the history of Congress and Democrat leadership and Obama supporters are taking the position we shouldn’t care what is in the bill before our representatives vote on it? Are they high?

    I guess that’s another rhetorical question.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  55. “Let’s see, the largest pork bill in the history of Congress and Democrat leadership and Obama supporters are taking the position we shouldn’t care what is in the bill before our representatives vote on it?”

    Oh definitely not. I’ve been following what gets taken and out put in. That’s different than having each rep read the thing. In fact having each one read it would mean they couldn’t twitter about it!

    imdw (8bb588)

  56. The bill is technically defined as an emergency bill in the first few paragraphs of the legislation so the promise is not active for this one.

    The Lilly Ledbetter law and the DTV transition were not and because his crack web staff was still figuring out how the WH website worked they posted both the laws for comment AFTER they were already signed into law

    The conference report is available in 4 pdf parts on the House Committee on Rules page

    DayTrader (ea6549)

  57. Preliminary reports are for a very public signing ceremony Monday evening with details not yet available.

    DayTrader (ea6549)

  58. I think they know what this bill entails.

    No, they don’t – but the lobbyists sure as hell do:

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2009/2/12/congressional-offices-dont-have-the-stimulus-bill-lobbyists-do.html

    Hope! Change! Pigs in the trough!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  59. The WH website has the bill actually up for comment at this link

    DayTrader (ea6549)

  60. In a week chock full of grotesquely idiotic comments, imdw appears to want to be the King, or Queen, as it may be. Are you really arguing that it is beneficial for Reps and Sens to not know the full substance of what they are going to vote on?

    JD (09132b)

  61. are you kidding? he’s already signed a copy, even before the vote.

    Juggy is a liar, that’s all any one ever needs to know about him.

    redc1c4 (9c4f4a)

  62. “Are you really arguing that it is beneficial for Reps and Sens to not know the full substance of what they are going to vote on?”

    I think each one having to listen to it read, or having to read it, gets in the way of that. I think the substance can be gotten other ways.

    imdw (e2d13a)

  63. I think each one having to listen to it read, or having to read it, gets in the way of that. I think the substance can be gotten other ways.

    First, the devil is in the details, which can only be discerned through study.

    Second, how do you propose someone learn the substance without reading the bill? Are you like Levi, able to know the contents of books without ever reading them?

    Steverino (69d941)

  64. “First, the devil is in the details, which can only be discerned through study.”

    That’s true. No reason why each one of them has to study it on their own though. I heard that e-verify was gone from it. I didn’t find that out by reading the bill. I read about it on michellemalkin.com.

    “Second, how do you propose someone learn the substance without reading the bill? ”

    Like hearing from someone who read it? Reading a conference report? Being briefed on it? Lastly there’s what I bet goes on too — people trust other’s opinions.

    imdw (de7003)

  65. Lets add too, I often hear that it is a problem that many of our legislators are lawyers. If they’re having to read laws on their own and asked to understand them on their own — that’s sort of a skill that lawyers are going to have.

    imdw (2740d3)

  66. Trust, but Verify!

    If they actually had to read the legislation that they encumber us with,
    they wouldn’t have any time for lobbyist parties, or fundraising (but I repeat myself).

    AD (3c43e7)

  67. So what other ways did all of the Reps and all of the Sens utilize to learn about the details of this 1400+ page piece of legislation? Or, did they only bother to learn about their own pork?

    JD (09132b)

  68. Imdw has spoken! Nobody needs to read the 1400+ page document! All you need to do is read the Cliffs Notes on it! That’ll get you a complete understanding of everything in it!

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  69. Anyone have Levi’s phone #?
    He’ll be able to tell us what’s in it just from the title.

    AD (3c43e7)

  70. “Oh definitely not. I’ve been following what gets taken and out put in. That’s different than having each rep read the thing. In fact having each one read it would mean they couldn’t twitter about it!”

    imdw – Which may be fine if people understand what was in there in the first place. If they don’t, thet’re screwed. It also assumes accurate descriptions of what is taken out and put back in, of which I have grave doubts. Did you know until a day or so ago that Harry Reid had an $8 billion rail line between Los Angeles and Los Vegas in the bill? That certainly had not been bandied about much prior to Wednesday.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  71. That’d be great! A rail line to Vegas!

    TLove (012115)

  72. That’s true. No reason why each one of them has to study it on their own though. I heard that e-verify was gone from it. I didn’t find that out by reading the bill. I read about it on michellemalkin.com.

    You don’t see the difference between you learning what’s in the bill vs. those who we elected to do that job? No offense to you but you are not an elected official who has a responsibility to his constituents and to his office to know just what he is assigning his name to (and ostensibly ours as well).

    That one would be willing to accept their elected representative finding out what is in this extraordinarily important and impacting bill through ‘word of mouth’ evidences the expectation of our politicians has sunk to a terrible new low and whether from apathy or cynicism, I don’t know.

    Dana (137151)

  73. Yeah, it’s so economically stimulating to build a rail line to Vegas. And it creates so many long-term jobs. Nothing porkulous about it. Nope. And there’s no underhanded attempt to guarantee votes for a specific un-named Senate Pro-Tem (D) from Nevada. Nope.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  74. Yeah, we can send our congressional idiots from the Left Coast to spend whatever’s left from the pork – o -rama at the craps tables! C’mon, Harry needs a new Caddy!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  75. Granny McBotox needs some more dermabrasion! Harry needs him some more pigment! Boxer needs more Sylvan reading lessons!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  76. “That’d be great! A rail line to Vegas!”

    PAR-TAY BAYBEE!!!!!

    Like it’s tough to get from LA to Vegas now!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  77. That one would be willing to accept their elected representative finding out what is in this extraordinarily important and impacting…

    But imdw just told you that’s it’s OK, so that’s settled.

    No i mean to explicitly call that stupid.

    Commenter, heal thyself.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  78. I would suggest checking who owns the right of ways along the projected rail line. Harry owns a lot of real estate in Nevada. He might by coincidence wind up owning some along the track. Stranger things have happened.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  79. Nobody going from LA to Vegas is going to take a train when it’s just a short hop from LAX already. Why spend hours torturing yourself in a train when a 90-minute flight is all it takes? Duh. What a waste of my “fly-over” dollars just to build a useless west coast rail line that will never show a profit.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  80. I’d take a train.

    TLove (012115)

  81. No i mean to explicitly call that stupid.

    Commenter, heal thyself.

    Comment by Dmac — 2/13/2009 @ 4:40 pm

    Dmac, you are hereby notified of my intent to file an 8-digit civil lawsuit against you for your theft of my plagiarized statement earlier this week.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  82. “Granny McBotox”

    Dmac – If you’re going to steal my ripoff from Ace, I gotta insist you go with the more nuanced version:

    Granny McRictusbotoxface

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  83. It’s actually under 60 minutes by plane from LAX and Burbank. However, going to the airport, checking a bag, going through security, waiting for your bag…it all takes time. A high speed rail would take about 2-2.5 hrs.

    TLove (012115)

  84. So we’ll put that down as a big ‘ole one passenger confirmed – for 2035. Would you prefer Business Class or Cargo?

    Dmac (49b16c)

  85. But imdw just told you that’s it’s OK, so that’s settled.

    Heh. It’s just unbelievable to me that we should settle for the bar being set so low for our politicians…

    When I read, “Like hearing from someone who read it.”, I flashed on playing Telephone when I was a kid. We’d sit on a bench and someone would start and tell the first person something and they’d pass it on to the next one. Even before the 3rd person was told, the original statement would already be tweaked & misquoted.

    Dana (137151)

  86. against you for your theft of my plagiarized statement earlier this week.

    If you’re going to steal my ripoff from Ace

    Woah – my apologies to you both; but at least I was subconsciously stealing from good sources. Hey, even George Harrison was guilty of it. Gotta get some new material, apparently.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  87. that we should settle for the bar being set so low for our politicians…

    Dana, if nothing else worthwhile comes from this debacle, at least this will settle the debate of whether we have an informed citizenry at all these days. Except for a few outliers here and there, the answer is obvious.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  88. LA – ‘Vegas rail…
    The proposal is for a Mag-Lev rail line, which would opperate at speeds in excess of 200mph, and IIRC, one of the GOP Senators today said would cost in the neighborhood of $100M/mile. MagLev technology is not compatible with conventional rail and requires dedicated right-of-way, infrastructure, and equipment.

    The Union Pacific built a rail-line from Salt Lake City to Los Angeles via Las Vegas in IIRC 1910. The Governments of CA and the USA have consistently refused to fund an AMTRAK passenger train along this route. Prior to AMTRAK, the UP did have regularly scheduled passenger service between LA and ‘Vegas.

    AD (3c43e7)

  89. Amtrak’s too slow. I think about the high speed rail lines in Europe. I loved traveling via those trains. They were so easy, cheap and fast.

    TLove (012115)

  90. Yes, they are inexpensive due to the support hidden in the VAT that those countries impose on commerce.
    No government owned transit, anywhere, of any type, pays back its’ operating cost, let alone its’ capital cost.

    AD (3c43e7)

  91. “Amtrak’s too slow. I think about the high speed rail lines in Europe. I loved traveling via those trains. They were so easy, cheap and fast.”

    then move your sorry butt to f’ing Europe….

    besides, there’s no way in hell that the enviroweenies are going to let you build that kind of thing all the way across a desert you can’t even ride a motorcycle or drive a 4WD in.

    redc1c4 (9c4f4a)

  92. Yeah, much better that our legislators vote on bills that only their unelected, unaccountable, anonymous staffers have read.

    Who needed that pesky republic thing, anyway?

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  93. Rob – The trolls are truly breath-taking recently, no?

    JD (c6800b)

  94. then move your sorry butt to f’ing Europe….

    Doesn’t that seem a bit rude?

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  95. #

    Here’s an idea. Every bill which creates spending of more than 100 million is required to be read in its entirety, word by word, on the floor of the House and Senate before a final vote is taken. Anyone caught napping or text messaging about lunch has their vote canceled. No bathroom breaks except for nausea over the sums of money involved. The reader shall be selected from either the current dominant party leadership, or the last 10 Oscar winners. That assures a slow and thorough reading since everyone of these people love the sound of their own voice too much to rush through it.

    However, any and all true tax reduction bills need only a show of hands. No quorum silliness, either.

    Comment by allan — 2/13/2009 @ 11:44 am

    ———————–

    The stupid is strong on this one.

    Comment by imdw — 2/13/2009 @ 2:59 pm

    Next time I’ll put a big flashing sign at the beginning that reads “attempt at humor approaching”…”warning: objects may be flying over your head”

    allan (ee3dc2)

  96. Isn’t it amusing that in only two or three weeks, the entire facade of Obama as new style, beyond-partisanship, Hope & Change … its all gone.

    The first months of George W. Bush’s administration was orders of magnitude more “bipartisan” than Obama’s.

    Yet another example of how quickly Obama will make Bush look good.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  97. Smart & funny as you’ve always been, allan.

    Dana (137151)

  98. Why, Dana [who I can personally avow is strikingly good looking], that is very kind of you to say. Thank you. I do have fun playing with words.

    allan (ee3dc2)

  99. “When I read, “Like hearing from someone who read it.”, I flashed on playing Telephone when I was a kid”

    Think about how executives function. You think they know everything their employees are doing? People tell them whats going on. But maybe as part of mortgage reform we should make bank CEO’s read each application before approving a mortgage.

    “Nobody going from LA to Vegas is going to take a train when it’s just a short hop from LAX already. Why spend hours torturing yourself in a train when a 90-minute flight is all it takes”

    I don’t know how long the rail trip will be, but in the northeast a longer rail trip can often be much better than a flight. Train stations are much less of a hassle than airports, less security, you can arrive 5 minutes before departure, its often from city center to city center, the train is more spacious, and the weather causes less delays. Are you near any such train trips?

    imdw (c990d8)

  100. imdw, you have never visited southern california, have you? So you don’t even realize how long it would add to the journey for a southern californian to drive to downtown Los Angeles for a rail terminal like Union Station …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  101. “imdw, you have never visited southern california, have you? So you don’t even realize how long it would add to the journey for a southern californian to drive to downtown Los Angeles for a rail terminal like Union Station …”

    I suppose they could put the terminal next to LAX and then the drive would be the same.

    imdw (f30eb8)

  102. If this is an emergency bill, so desperately to save the very fabric of our society, why is so little of the money actually being spent now? Or this month? Or this year? Or next year?

    imdw does not understand the concept of our Republic.

    JD (c6800b)

  103. I don’t know how long the rail trip will be, but in the northeast a longer rail trip can often be much better than a flight. Train stations are much less of a hassle than airports, less security, you can arrive 5 minutes before departure, its often from city center to city center, the train is more spacious, and the weather causes less delays. Are you near any such train trips?

    Why does Amtrak still bleed money so?

    I live in New England and I’ve looked at the train for a number of trips. It just isn’t cost/time effective. The only time I take Amtrak is when I fly into BWI and the MARC trains aren’t running to DC.

    Pablo (99243e)

  104. imdw, only compared to an airplane flight. Most southern californians drive to Las Vegas, and they do so in short enough periods of time that driving into the center of the worst traffic congestion would make no sense. A high speed train can’t gain enough over the freeway to be worthwhile.

    Its always been a silly idea.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  105. “imdw, only compared to an airplane flight. Most southern californians drive to Las Vegas, and they do so in short enough periods of time that driving into the center of the worst traffic congestion would make no sense. A high speed train can’t gain enough over the freeway to be worthwhile.”

    That’s true but when i take the train I also enjoy drinking. Like I said just because flight is shorter doesn’t mean it beats the train. There are several factors the train has which will make it a good idea for some people.

    “If this is an emergency bill, so desperately to save the very fabric of our society, why is so little of the money actually being spent now? Or this month? Or this year? Or next year?”

    What are you numbers? The CBO has most of the impact of the bill hitting in 2009 and 10. See Table 1:

    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9987/Gregg_Year-by-Year_Stimulus.pdf

    “I live in New England and I’ve looked at the train for a number of trips. It just isn’t cost/time effective.”

    DC to boston is like 8 hours no ? I think that stretches it. If it were down to 5 it would compete with non-direct flights, maybe even direct ones. But NY/DC is fantastic by train.

    imwd (70833b)

  106. people trust other’s opinions.
    Comment by imdw

    Yea, but what if the opinion originates from a foolish, dishonest, sloppy liberal (or “progressive”), similar to the guy who now occupies the Oval Office?

    Mark (411533)

  107. So, imdw, do you agree with the CBO that this “stimulus” is a bad idea? Never mind, I know better than to hope for a rational response from you.

    JD (c6800b)

  108. “So, imdw, do you agree with the CBO that this “stimulus” is a bad idea”

    The CBO doesn’t really reach that conclusion. The link I gave you has negative impacts maxing out at -.2 of Gdp under the ‘low’ estimate for 2014-2019. Those add up to be less than the positive impacts of earlier years. And that’s not assuming that earlier production will have a better present value. To me it reflects the nature of stimulus as being countercyclical — it takes from future upswings in the cycle and adds to this downswing.

    Have you read any of these CBO reports? They’re real short and to the point. It would be a shame if everyone got caught up in who did or did not read the bill and missed out on these.

    imdw (513533)

  109. Yes, because actually knowing what you are voting for is … irrelevant. Face it. You want this passed because the Dems have told you that you need it. And because Teh One is in office. Those little things, like the details, might get in the way.

    JD (c6800b)

  110. “Face it. You want this passed because the Dems have told you that you need it. ”

    Everytime you ask me a question, I give you an answer and ask where you’re coming from. But then you come up with some other shit you read. And then you get to this conclusion. You didn’t read that CBO report did you? You just heard they said it was a “bad idea.”

    imdw (a0a88e)

  111. I read it. I would have liked for the Congressmen and Senators to have read it. But, that is expecting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much from this shinyhappyhopeynewchangey most ethical most transparent administation EVAH !

    JD (c6800b)

  112. I’m for a constitutional amendment that says the President has to read every bill out loud before he signs it.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  113. “I read it”

    Is that where you got your numbers? Or your idea that the CBO gave a normative interpretation like “bad idea” ?

    imdw (87fe55)

  114. I’m for a constitutional amendment that says the president has to read every bill out loud and define every sentence in front of at least 500 people and at least 100 live-feed cameras before signing anything.

    I’m also for a constitutional amendment requiring a 60 pc majority from each house to pass any tax increase. Oh wait, that one’s a serious one.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  115. …more L.A. – ‘Vegas train:
    The SoCal terminal is to be located adjacent to Disneyland in Anaheim CA, approx one-hour by frwy from LAX. Drive time from Disneyland to the ‘Vegas Strip is 4-5 hours, your number of traffic violations may vary.
    The MagLev train opperates at speeds in excess of 200mph, but would have to climb over Cajon Pass (4200’ above sea level, and holding three rail lines now) or tunnel through the San Bernardino Mountains (VERY expensive).
    Another factor is where the electrical power needed for the railway will come from?
    It’s not like SoCal has an overabundance of electrical generating capacity.
    Then, as mentioned before, there are the environmental considerations:
    Transit through the Mojave National Park/Preserve;
    The many flora and fauna in the desert that are considered “threatened” or “endangered”;
    why a construction intensive transportation project would be given the go-ahead while recreational activity in the desert is proscribed by ESA law?

    Charitably, one would have to say that Harry is getting a substantial campaign contribution for 2010 from someone with skin in this game.

    AD - RtR/OS (e49fcd)

  116. Another factor is where the electrical power needed for the railway will come from?

    That’s an easy one – from Oregon, which CA is already importing quite a bit of electricity. OTOH, many of the natives in OR are getting antsy about all of their power being shipped elsewhere these days, so never mind.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  117. Wind farms? Oh, never mind – the Sierra Club doesn’t like those…how about kelp farms out in the ocean? Eh, stike that – they don’t much care for that idea, either. Let’s all just stay at home and look out our windows for entertainment.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  118. Wow I just found out that the vegas to la line isn’t actually in the bill. How come y’all been lying to me?

    imdw (8f5e33)

  119. The metanarrative to all of this is that the proclaimed transparency is anything but. People should not have to speculate as to what is or is not in this bill. Congresscritters should be given the opportinity to review an $800,000,000,000 piece of legislation for more than a couple hours before voting on it. That projects are put in and taken out and put back in behind closed doors and then forced through is the exact opposite of what Teh One proclaimed would happen under his watch. Much like the 5 days of public viewing of the legislation before signing. But, new hope and change turns out to be just another slick marketing campaign. You say stimulus, I say pork barrel interest group spending. You won. Congrats. This is all on you now.

    JD (030d7e)

  120. “Congresscritters should be given the opportinity to review an $800,000,000,000 piece of legislation for more than a couple hours before voting on it”

    See I think they had their minds made up already. Well except for gregg, who announced he was for it but then voted against.

    “This is all on you now.”

    Y3ah i think this was the important thing to remember: make a good bill, not a bill that will get GOP votes. No matter what, it’s a Dem bill, so better make it work than make it bipartisan.

    imdw (688568)

  121. it’s a Dem bill

    We’ll be reminding you of this later…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  122. “We’ll be reminding you of this later…”

    Right after you force the dems to accept blame for the new deal, right?

    imdw (de7003)

  123. We don’t have to force them to accept blame for the New Deal,
    they proudly proclaim their authorship,
    and more and more scholarship demonstrates the utter futility of the programs established by it to deal with the economic conditions of the times.

    I’ve really become attracted to the comment by Morgenthau to the Congress (1939, IIRC) that after spending Billions of Dollars, the only thing they had to show for it was the National Debt!

    AD - RtR/OS (b72c61)

  124. Yeah people keep thinking they can sling mud at democrats by reminding people that they’re responsible for things like social security and the new deal and medicare. Sling away!

    imdw (a81897)


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