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	<title>Comments on: Unapologetic 100-0 Coach Fired</title>
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	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: RW</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450895</link>
		<dc:creator>RW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;It sounds to me like Coach Grimes made every reasonable effort to avoid running up the score&lt;/i&gt;

No.  No.  No.
You don&#039;t attempt to hold down the score while scoring 100 points in a game that lasts, what, 32 minutes? I read that the opposing team attempted less than 10 shots.  That means they were pressuring the ball, while up &gt; 60 points.  The simple answer is to play zone defense with all your players stationed in the lane, daring the team to hit shots from outside 15 feet (or so).

This is akin to the Red Sox stealing 9 bases in the top of the 9th inning while beating the Yankees 35-0 and then brushing back batters in the bottom of the 9th.  It&#039;s bad sportsmanship and the strong taking advantage of the weak.

Those kids didn&#039;t learn a lesson by constantly stealing the ball from special needs kids.  The coach was an a$$hat for running up the score and all you folks gleefully quoting college football coaches like Billy Tubbs only exhaserbate the situation since Billy Tubbs made a career of stomping lesser schools &amp; then having his talented teams get &#039;upset&#039; every season when it came time to play the big games.  A little character could&#039;ve helped.

[Bobby Bowden *would* call off the dogs, yet his teams still had huge victories.  That they&#039;d score running the FB is different than throwing bombs while up 50 in the 4th qtr, which is why Bowden is considered classy &amp; Tubbs was an a-hole]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It sounds to me like Coach Grimes made every reasonable effort to avoid running up the score</i></p>
<p>No.  No.  No.<br />
You don&#8217;t attempt to hold down the score while scoring 100 points in a game that lasts, what, 32 minutes? I read that the opposing team attempted less than 10 shots.  That means they were pressuring the ball, while up &gt; 60 points.  The simple answer is to play zone defense with all your players stationed in the lane, daring the team to hit shots from outside 15 feet (or so).</p>
<p>This is akin to the Red Sox stealing 9 bases in the top of the 9th inning while beating the Yankees 35-0 and then brushing back batters in the bottom of the 9th.  It&#8217;s bad sportsmanship and the strong taking advantage of the weak.</p>
<p>Those kids didn&#8217;t learn a lesson by constantly stealing the ball from special needs kids.  The coach was an a$$hat for running up the score and all you folks gleefully quoting college football coaches like Billy Tubbs only exhaserbate the situation since Billy Tubbs made a career of stomping lesser schools &amp; then having his talented teams get &#8216;upset&#8217; every season when it came time to play the big games.  A little character could&#8217;ve helped.</p>
<p>[Bobby Bowden *would* call off the dogs, yet his teams still had huge victories.  That they'd score running the FB is different than throwing bombs while up 50 in the 4th qtr, which is why Bowden is considered classy &amp; Tubbs was an a-hole]</p>
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		<title>By: Pons Asinorum</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450243</link>
		<dc:creator>Pons Asinorum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-450243</guid>
		<description>Oops -- should read &quot;When the strong pick on the weak simply because they can...&quot;

my bad ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8212; should read &#8220;When the strong pick on the weak simply because they can&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>my bad <img src='http://patterico.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Pons Asinorum</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450215</link>
		<dc:creator>Pons Asinorum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-450215</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Comment by davod — 1/28/2009 @ 8:07 am 

How can you arrive a this statement.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When the weak pick on the strong simply because they can, especially when it involves youngsters, I believe it is a form of bullying (my opinion).

Coach Grimes knows that running up a score is wrong (he stated so himself -- #59). So why did he do it? According to Coach Civello “They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left.”

Why not ease up earlier (say with a 40, 50 or 60 point lead)?  Coach Grimes had the power to ease-up but choose not to do so until after scoring 100 points (simply because he could).

As the adult in charge, he used his power to blast the other team. In my opinion this is the mentality of a bully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>Comment by davod — 1/28/2009 @ 8:07 am </p>
<p>How can you arrive a this statement.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>When the weak pick on the strong simply because they can, especially when it involves youngsters, I believe it is a form of bullying (my opinion).</p>
<p>Coach Grimes knows that running up a score is wrong (he stated so himself &#8212; #59). So why did he do it? According to Coach Civello “They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left.”</p>
<p>Why not ease up earlier (say with a 40, 50 or 60 point lead)?  Coach Grimes had the power to ease-up but choose not to do so until after scoring 100 points (simply because he could).</p>
<p>As the adult in charge, he used his power to blast the other team. In my opinion this is the mentality of a bully.</p>
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		<title>By: Pons Asinorum</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450193</link>
		<dc:creator>Pons Asinorum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-450193</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Comment by davod — 1/28/2009 @ 8:07 am 

When Wellingon said that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, how do you know what he meant.&lt;/i&gt;

You are correct, I do not know for certain. I do know that the British Army is big on traditions of honor, discipline, and respect. I suspect these are some of the characteristics implied by Wellington, but I am not certain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Comment by davod — 1/28/2009 @ 8:07 am </p>
<p>When Wellingon said that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, how do you know what he meant.</i></p>
<p>You are correct, I do not know for certain. I do know that the British Army is big on traditions of honor, discipline, and respect. I suspect these are some of the characteristics implied by Wellington, but I am not certain.</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450181</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-450181</guid>
		<description>&quot;For being silly, yes I would agree with you; for teaching youngsters that the bully mentality is okay, no. &quot;

How can you arrive a this statement.

When Wellingon said that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, how do you know what he meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For being silly, yes I would agree with you; for teaching youngsters that the bully mentality is okay, no. &#8221;</p>
<p>How can you arrive a this statement.</p>
<p>When Wellingon said that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, how do you know what he meant.</p>
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		<title>By: Loren</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450178</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;mercy rules&quot; suck for the losing team.  I know, when I was in high school, we had a new school, no seniors and had 3 or 4 football games ended early on us due to the league &quot;mercy rule.&quot;  I was 2nd/3rd string, but I can still safely say that most of the team would have preferred to lose a complete game by 70 points, than to have the game ended early in the 3rd quarter by the 45 point rule.  Most of us wanted to have the game playing opportunity, which the &quot;mercy rule&quot; cut short.

The coach was reluctant to play 2nd/3rd string even when 1st stringers were not performing or tired, because he didn&#039;t want to have an early game end either.

We were juniors and sophomores, playing seniors and juniors.  We didn&#039;t necessarily expect to win, but we wanted the experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;mercy rules&#8221; suck for the losing team.  I know, when I was in high school, we had a new school, no seniors and had 3 or 4 football games ended early on us due to the league &#8220;mercy rule.&#8221;  I was 2nd/3rd string, but I can still safely say that most of the team would have preferred to lose a complete game by 70 points, than to have the game ended early in the 3rd quarter by the 45 point rule.  Most of us wanted to have the game playing opportunity, which the &#8220;mercy rule&#8221; cut short.</p>
<p>The coach was reluctant to play 2nd/3rd string even when 1st stringers were not performing or tired, because he didn&#8217;t want to have an early game end either.</p>
<p>We were juniors and sophomores, playing seniors and juniors.  We didn&#8217;t necessarily expect to win, but we wanted the experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450115</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-450115</guid>
		<description>It sounds to me like Coach Grimes made every reasonable effort to &lt;i&gt;avoid&lt;/i&gt; running up the score, but the match was so bad between the teams that keeping the score &lt;i&gt;down&lt;/i&gt; to 100 to 0 was the best he could.  If they scored 59 in the first half without even trying, keeping the number down to 41 in the second half sounds like they exercised considerable restraint.  Short of forbidding his girls to play at all, or ordering them to score a few &quot;own goals&quot; to benefit the other team, what the hell else was he supposed to do?

If anybody should be fired over this incident, it&#039;s the dolt who thought it was a good idea to put these two teams in the same league.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds to me like Coach Grimes made every reasonable effort to <i>avoid</i> running up the score, but the match was so bad between the teams that keeping the score <i>down</i> to 100 to 0 was the best he could.  If they scored 59 in the first half without even trying, keeping the number down to 41 in the second half sounds like they exercised considerable restraint.  Short of forbidding his girls to play at all, or ordering them to score a few &#8220;own goals&#8221; to benefit the other team, what the hell else was he supposed to do?</p>
<p>If anybody should be fired over this incident, it&#8217;s the dolt who thought it was a good idea to put these two teams in the same league.</p>
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		<title>By: Pons Asinorum</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-450105</link>
		<dc:creator>Pons Asinorum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-450105</guid>
		<description>Here is the view from Coach Civello &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/012209dnsposhutout.40d72ee.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Coach Civello &lt;/a&gt; from DRJ&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://patterico.com/2009/01/22/lifes-lessons/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;orignal post &lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;They are really good,&quot; Civello said. &quot;Their point guard is terrific. This is what it came down to in the second half: steal at half court and layup. Steal and layup. Steal and layup. It was a layup drill. They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left.&quot; Covenant&#039;s point guard had 48 points. &lt;/blockquote&gt;



According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flightbasketball.com/100-0-Texas-Game-Response-From-Coach.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coach Grimes &lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;We played the game as it was meant to be played and would not intentionally run up the score on any opponent.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;We started the game off with a full-court press. After 3 minutes into play, we had already reached a 25-0 lead.  Like any rational thinking coach would do, I  immediately stopped the full-court press, dropped into a 2-3 zone defense, and started subbing in my 3 bench players. This strategy continued for the rest of the game and allowed the Dallas Academy players to get the ball up the court for a chance to score. The second half started with a score of 59-0. Seeing that we would win by too wide of a margin, running down the clock was the only logical course of action left.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Coach Grimes knew it was wrong to run-up the score as revealed by his own words, but he did it anyway. The fact that he denies running-up the score after the fact is rendered meaningless by the facts of his coaching decisions (most notably, point guard in game until 48 points, stealing at half court until 100 points was scored, not running out the shot clock until the end of the game).

He did run-up the score, so the remaining debate is whether or not this is an acceptable practice. Coach Grimes knows that it is not – as do most athletes, coaches, referees, parents, students, and teachers involved as evidenced by the subsequent actions taken by the school (apology, firing, amends, etc).

This does not belong in high school basketball (Coach Grimes is correct in that regard). Coach Grimes denied his players the experience of a clean victory, class, honor, unity and pride. He denied them the tradition of sportsmanship to respect fellow athletes –  a courtesy often rendered in the college and professional ranks. He embarrassed them. Fortunately Coach Grimes will have an opportunity to take his philosophy to the bigger leagues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the view from Coach Civello <a href="http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/012209dnsposhutout.40d72ee.html" rel="nofollow"> Coach Civello </a> from DRJ&#8217;s <a href="http://patterico.com/2009/01/22/lifes-lessons/" rel="nofollow">orignal post </a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;They are really good,&#8221; Civello said. &#8220;Their point guard is terrific. This is what it came down to in the second half: steal at half court and layup. Steal and layup. Steal and layup. It was a layup drill. They finally eased up when they got to 100 with about four minutes left.&#8221; Covenant&#8217;s point guard had 48 points. </p></blockquote>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.flightbasketball.com/100-0-Texas-Game-Response-From-Coach.html" rel="nofollow">Coach Grimes </a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;We played the game as it was meant to be played and would not intentionally run up the score on any opponent.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>And:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;We started the game off with a full-court press. After 3 minutes into play, we had already reached a 25-0 lead.  Like any rational thinking coach would do, I  immediately stopped the full-court press, dropped into a 2-3 zone defense, and started subbing in my 3 bench players. This strategy continued for the rest of the game and allowed the Dallas Academy players to get the ball up the court for a chance to score. The second half started with a score of 59-0. Seeing that we would win by too wide of a margin, running down the clock was the only logical course of action left.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Coach Grimes knew it was wrong to run-up the score as revealed by his own words, but he did it anyway. The fact that he denies running-up the score after the fact is rendered meaningless by the facts of his coaching decisions (most notably, point guard in game until 48 points, stealing at half court until 100 points was scored, not running out the shot clock until the end of the game).</p>
<p>He did run-up the score, so the remaining debate is whether or not this is an acceptable practice. Coach Grimes knows that it is not – as do most athletes, coaches, referees, parents, students, and teachers involved as evidenced by the subsequent actions taken by the school (apology, firing, amends, etc).</p>
<p>This does not belong in high school basketball (Coach Grimes is correct in that regard). Coach Grimes denied his players the experience of a clean victory, class, honor, unity and pride. He denied them the tradition of sportsmanship to respect fellow athletes –  a courtesy often rendered in the college and professional ranks. He embarrassed them. Fortunately Coach Grimes will have an opportunity to take his philosophy to the bigger leagues.</p>
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		<title>By: damnum absque injuria &#187; Bad Loser?</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-449956</link>
		<dc:creator>damnum absque injuria &#187; Bad Loser?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] here and here. And, for those with a thing for horses and their mouths, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] here and here. And, for those with a thing for horses and their mouths, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2009/01/27/unapologetic-100-0-coach-fired/comment-page-2/#comment-449951</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=21567#comment-449951</guid>
		<description>Joe:
&lt;blockquote&gt; Other options would have been to put in 2nd or 3rd string. Allow the girls to try different positions, and try plays that are more challenging to execute. All of which have value to players on the winning team.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

All of which, according to Grimes, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flightbasketball.com/100-0-Texas-Game-Response-From-Coach.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;he did&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Game. The game started like any other high school basketball game across the nation. The teams warm-up, coaches talk, the ball is tipped, and then the play begins. We started the game off with a full-court press. After 3 minutes into play, we had already reached a 25-0 lead.  Like any rational thinking coach would do, I  immediately stopped the full-court press, dropped into a 2-3 zone defense, and started subbing in my 3 bench players. This strategy continued for the rest of the game and allowed the Dallas Academy players to get the ball up the court for a chance to score. The second half started with a score of 59-0. Seeing that we would win by too wide of a margin, running down the clock was the only logical course of action left.  Contrary to the articles, there were only a total of four 3-point baskets made; three in the first quarter, and only one in the third quarter. I continued to sub in bench players, play zone defense, and run the clock for the rest of the game.  We played fair and honorably within the rules and in the presence of the parents, coaches, and athletic directors for both Covenant School and Dallas Academy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe:</p>
<blockquote><p> Other options would have been to put in 2nd or 3rd string. Allow the girls to try different positions, and try plays that are more challenging to execute. All of which have value to players on the winning team.</p></blockquote>
<p>All of which, according to Grimes, <a href="http://www.flightbasketball.com/100-0-Texas-Game-Response-From-Coach.html" rel="nofollow">he did</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Game. The game started like any other high school basketball game across the nation. The teams warm-up, coaches talk, the ball is tipped, and then the play begins. We started the game off with a full-court press. After 3 minutes into play, we had already reached a 25-0 lead.  Like any rational thinking coach would do, I  immediately stopped the full-court press, dropped into a 2-3 zone defense, and started subbing in my 3 bench players. This strategy continued for the rest of the game and allowed the Dallas Academy players to get the ball up the court for a chance to score. The second half started with a score of 59-0. Seeing that we would win by too wide of a margin, running down the clock was the only logical course of action left.  Contrary to the articles, there were only a total of four 3-point baskets made; three in the first quarter, and only one in the third quarter. I continued to sub in bench players, play zone defense, and run the clock for the rest of the game.  We played fair and honorably within the rules and in the presence of the parents, coaches, and athletic directors for both Covenant School and Dallas Academy.</p></blockquote>
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