Patterico's Pontifications

1/27/2009

L.A. Times: Republicans “Snipe” at Obama, Even as He “Swim[s] Against the Partisan Tide” — Meanwhile, Layoffs Are “Adding Urgency to the Need to Agree on a Stimulus Plan” . . . Yes, These Are Quotes from News Articles. No, I’m Not Kidding.

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General,Obama — Patterico @ 9:32 pm

The L.A. Times sings a hymn of praise to the glorious bipartisan efforts of Barack Obama:

President Obama travels to the Capitol today to meet with House and Senate Republicans, the latest in a series of high-profile efforts to reach across the aisle and make good on his campaign promise to swim against the partisan tide that has flooded Washington for decades.

So far, his gestures have shown few signs of success, as Republicans have continued to snipe at his signature initiative — legislation to stimulate the economy — and even to question the sincerity of his efforts. In the stimulus bill’s first two tests last week, it passed two committees without a single Republican vote.

“Snipe”!

Nothing loaded in that terminology . . .

Meanwhile, another article tells us that layoffs at several companies are “adding urgency to the need to agree on a stimulus plan”:

Imagine these headlines: “Saddam continues to defy U.N. weapons inspectors, adding urgency to the need to agree to Bush’s proposed invasion of Iraq.” Or: “Jihadists return to the battlefield, adding urgency to the need to agree to revisions of FISA.”

Yeah, I agree. They are hard to imagine at that.

228 Responses to “L.A. Times: Republicans “Snipe” at Obama, Even as He “Swim[s] Against the Partisan Tide” — Meanwhile, Layoffs Are “Adding Urgency to the Need to Agree on a Stimulus Plan” . . . Yes, These Are Quotes from News Articles. No, I’m Not Kidding.”

  1. Perhaps the LA Times think there’s some media bailout cash in that ‘stimulus’ plan.

    LA Times loses readers, ad revenue and continues layoffs, adding urgency to the need for a cash infusion from the federal government.

    Apogee (f4320c)

  2. Obama really doesn’t need Republican votes to pass his pork bill. But he needs the political cover when it fails.

    Alta Bob (44f27c)

  3. Oh, the humanity!

    …even to question the sincerity of his efforts.

    Is that a mortal sin or a venial sin?

    Patricia (89cb84)

  4. Come on, Oiram. Explain to us how this is not overt bias?

    FWIW, this bipartisanship, Baracky is bipartisan bullshit is getting tiring. Other than telling Congressional Republicans that he won, what has he done that is bipartisan?

    JD (b5ad03)

  5. His efforts are, of course, a mortal sin;
    to question them, is the height of patriotism!

    AD (db1953)

  6. AD,
    Racist!

    Patricia (89cb84)

  7. Yes, but will JD denounce me?

    AD (db1953)

  8. Those mindless, heartless, good-for-nothing backstabbing &^&$%$ing Republican dittoheads just cannot give up on partisanship! Thankfully we had the sense to all vote Democrat this time!!!

    Obama should just be bipartisan without them.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  9. AD – Consider yourself denounced. Denounced, and condemned.

    JD (b5ad03)

  10. Oh, Good.
    I’ll sleep peacefully tonight.

    AD (db1953)

  11. NTTIAWWT, JD.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  12. Remember those “WWJD?” bracelets?

    Well, around here, it stands for:

    Who Would JD Denounce?….

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  13. Add yourself to that list, Eric.

    JD (b5ad03)

  14. The man’s on a roll.
    Must be a protein overdose.

    AD (db1953)

  15. What’s the old saying, JD?

    Learn it, love it, live it!

    Denouncement as a lifestyle choice. Dare I say, a way of life?

    Soon to be a protected underrepresented group, entitled to all kinds of diversity initiatives.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  16. When is the LA Time going to finally call Obama’s bipartisanship what it is, disingenuous?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  17. No information from the LAT about when and if stimulus packages even work…but is sure is urgent.

    Perfect Sense (0922fa)

  18. Comment by daleyrocks — 1/27/2009 @ 10:48 pm
    Criticism of ‘The One” will never see the light of day in the pages of the Dog Trainer…
    That would make the likelihood of their inclusion in the bailout/stimulus package problematic.

    AD (db1953)

  19. For some reason, I just don’t see a these people being out of work from Microsoft & Intel painting the bridges & repaving the roads Comrade Obama speaks of.

    Stan (7cfd24)

  20. Perfect Sense – 10:53pm No information from the LAT

    Exactly.

    Apogee (f4320c)

  21. Oh, so Caterpillar is laying off people? Well, there’s a decent chance that I’m the only commenter around here who is a heavy equipment operator and has actually been involved in purchasing heavy equipment, so I’ll puff up my opinion as carrying some weight. Cat makes fine machines, no doubt about that, but at least at the time I had something (little) to say about what new loader to buy, you could get a similarly sized Kawasaki or Volvo-Michigan loader for $30,000 to $40,000 less than the Cat.

    On top of that, Caterpillar uses franchised dealers who try to maintain a monopoly on parts, and Cat parts are expensive.

    I have run Cats, Volvos, Kaws, Dressers and Internationals, and I, and most operators, would prefer to run a Cat, though I’ve had a couple of Volvos that were top-notch. But it’s hard to justify the additional purchase price of a Cat; for a company that bases its purchases on dollars and cents, and not personal feelings, Cat is not going to be the brand of choice.

    Note: though I can run other equipment, the vast majority of my experience is with front-end loaders.

    The heavy equipment operator Dana (3e4784)

  22. Joe: As an equipment operator, I can tell you one simple, very-much-ignored fact: the operator cannot see through the blade. If someone is stupid enough to stand in front of a bulldozer blade, thinking that the operator will have to stop, the first question is: can the operator even see the person in front of the equipment?

    The Dana who has run a D-7 (3e4784)

  23. http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDBiYjY3OWJjOWMyMWFjYmZjMjU2MTAwNDg1OGExNTA=

    Has a good article on how this stimulus bill is repeating history. The only question is whether we have a Japan style lost decade (nineties) or the full blown depression.

    Dana,
    Good post on heavy equipment and the costs. I worry that when the stimulus bill doesn’t work that we go to trade tariffs and make it that much worse. The only time that I’ve seen tariffs serve a positive purpose was when Harley Davidson got government help and 50% (I believe this is the correct number) tariffs in the 80′s against Japanese cycles. It did keep Harley from going under.

    voiceofreason2 (590c85)

  24. #23:

    Joe: As an equipment operator, I can tell you one simple, very-much-ignored fact: the operator cannot see through the blade. If someone is stupid enough to stand in front of a bulldozer blade, thinking that the operator will have to stop, the first question is: can the operator even see the person in front of the equipment?

    Comment by The Dana who has run a D-7 — 1/28/2009 @ 4:29 am

    Isn’t the rule of thumb, if you can’t see the equipment operator, the equipment operator cannot see you. I think Corrie decided to stand in front of a D-10 wasn’t it? And it was a modified one with a larger blade.

    But the bottom line is she was a misguided young woman fighting for peace by defending terrorists’ houses from being destroyed(actual terrorists who had actually killed people)–and she was a peace activist? The Israelis were raising the homes to discourage future bombings. She was fed that nonsense and poison about Israel by a pro-Palestinian professor at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington. And that is why she is now dead.

    Joe (17aeff)

  25. Obama, the One, needs not 1 Rethuglican to pass legislation.

    Pure politics so that way WHEN IT FAILS, not if, he can say “they said yes too!”

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  26. Sorry for repeating an earlier thought. Credit to u Bob.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  27. If someone is stupid enough to stand in front of a bulldozer blade, thinking that the operator will have to stop, the first question is: can the operator even see the person in front of the equipment?

    Shorter Dana: Play chicken with a bulldozer and you’re bound to lose.

    Indeed!

    Pablo (99243e)

  28. Obama wants the Republicans on board because he remembers Bill Clinton’s tax increase in 1993. There was not one Republican vote in the House for the bill. A year later, the Republicans took the House for the first time in 40 years.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  29. Oh come on guys, kiss and make up. :)
    You know you want to.

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  30. I post on the boards of my hometown newspaper. The editor of the boards just wrote me asking why I call Democrats PIGS for the way they left the National Mall, why I dish hate towards them when they aren’t dishing it towards me, but admits they dish it towards Bush in particular and the GOP in general.

    The Democrats are Orwellian, especially the ones who work in newsrooms and run editorial forums.

    PCD (7fe637)

  31. I think the Reps are in a dilemma. If they support Obama, they risk sharing the blame if it fails. If they don’t support him, they also risk being seen as insensitive to the plight of Americans and not ready to put partisanship aside. Both ways they lose. Not a good place to be. I think this is a check mate! Advantage Obama!

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  32. Huh. That’s the same boat the Dems were in just 4 years ago. How’d that work out, lovey?

    AKA Pablo (99243e)

  33. And the winner for the longest thread title goes to….

    Ed from PA (836625)

  34. Pablo wrote:

    Shorter Dana: Play chicken with a bulldozer and you’re bound to lose.

    Yup!

    Now, I wasn’t there, and I have no idea whther the operator knew that the lovely Miss Corrie was there. If it was a modified D-10, as Joe said, then there is a really huge blind spot. Here’s a picture. I’ve never run a D-10.

    A bulldozer operator uses his vision to concentrate on different things, depending upon the nature of the task. If he is grading, the most common use, he will concentrate primarily on the lower edge of the blade, the side depending upon which side he is grading to. Pushing down obstructions, which is what the Israeli operator was doing, generally means concentration on te field of vision over the top of the blade.

    The Dana who loves the smell of diesel in the morning (3e4784)

  35. Comment by AKA Pablo — 1/28/2009 @ 6:40 am
    You tell me Pablo, how did that work out?

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  36. And the winner for the longest thread title goes to….

    And the Lifetime Achievement award for Lowest Content-to-Word Ratio goes to…..

    Steverino (69d941)

  37. “Note: though I can run other equipment, the vast majority of my experience is with front-end loaders.”

    Dana – If I have to deal with equipment, I prefer front end loaders mysef. There’s too much fumbling around with other kinds.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  38. Comment by Steverino — 1/28/2009 @ 7:18 am

    Um… your comment? Congrats!

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  39. Comment by AKA Pablo — 1/28/2009 @ 6:40 am
    You tell me Pablo, how did that work out?

    4 years later, the Dems have control of the White House and both branches of Congress. So, that circumstance must be a good omen for today’s GOP, huh?

    AKA Pablo (99243e)

  40. Dana, there are photos of the ‘dozer and the scene here, if you’re interested.

    Pablo (99243e)

  41. Um… your comment? Congrats!

    Clueless to the last. Lifetime Achievement would be for all posts, EFP. Trust me: we could lay all your posts end-to-end and they still wouldn’t reach a valid point.

    Steverino (69d941)

  42. Comment by AKA Pablo — 1/28/2009 @ 7:35 am
    Nah….I think Obama is aware of that part of history and is working to prevent that. I think he will evetually gain the support of the Reps. He seems to be the lucky one. He has a way of getting people on his side. Cant you see the expressions on those people’s faces after their meeting with him? He has this effect on people. It’s scary. :)

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  43. #43
    Damn it! “Eventually.”

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  44. Nah….I think Obama is aware of that part of history and is working to prevent that.

    Oh, that makes sense. No President has ever been aware of history before. This one really is extraordinary.

    I think he will evetually gain the support of the Reps. He seems to be the lucky one. He has a way of getting people on his side.

    At this rate, there won’t even be any Republicans anymore. Everyone will be a progressive Democrat!

    He has this effect on people. It’s scary.

    It’s like he’s magic! Like Jesus, only better.

    Pablo (99243e)

  45. The Republicans actually have good alternative programs that more directly address the financial crisis. For example, they could suspend the payroll tax for six months and provide a tax rebate ($7500 has been proposed) for people who buy a house with 20% down. Those two programs would be much more effective in addressing the crisis. The payroll tax holiday would affect low income workers and be “progressive: in effect as FICA is a larger share of a low income worker’s paycheck. The housing incentive would add to a rise in house sales because of the fall in prices.

    They should hold out for those programs and make it clear that they are not just saying “No” but have a better plan. They will encounter trouble getting the word out, as noted by the title of this post.

    There is a home buyers’ strike going on right now as buyers wait for a bottom in the market. Getting sales up would help establish that bottom.

    Obama, the community organizer, has no economic sense so I am not optimistic.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  46. But, Mike – don’t you realize the man has a law degree…from Hahvaad?

    Dmac (eb0dd0)

  47. Comment by Steverino — 1/28/2009 @ 7:42 am

    I wouldn’t trust you to wash my neighbor’s car.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  48. Wasn’t a similar argument (Yale) used to defend Bush from attacks of being stupid? I am not claiming that Bush is stupid, but I don’t think using the same statement for two opposite purposes works. Well, maybe on your side of the fence it is SOP. My bad, carry on, Dmac.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  49. “I am not claiming that Bush is stupid, but I don’t think using the same statement for two opposite purposes works.”

    Ed – When the left ignore that Bush got better grades than Gore and Kerry it seems to work for their narrative and that “worst president ever” is a stupid man who happened to get reelected by the American public for a second term, unlike a real leading candidate for worst president ever, Jimmy Carter. Obama, meanwhile, has declined to release details of his academic career and many people find it odd that undistinguished graduates of Columbia find their way into Harvard Law School. Then again, the fact that he is black and had rich terror supporting Arab apologists greasing the skids for him may have been a factor. Transparency is not one of Obama’s strong points, is it Ed?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  50. Then again, the fact that he is black and had rich terror supporting Arab apologists greasing the skids for him may have been a factor.

    The black part I believe, you’re going to have to provide some sort of link for that second part. If I said George Bush is white and is secretly a devil worshipper, you’d want a little proof, wouldn’t you?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  51. Jimmy Carter is not even close to the worst president ever. Why don’t you do a little reading on the subject about what actual experts think before we weild that sad, pithy little opinion of yours. You could poke somebody’s metaphorical eyes out, much like you must have done to both of your own, in light of that Carter comment.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  52. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/worstpresidents/

    There you go. This is a good start. Looks like the R’s beat the D’s on this list by a 5-2 margin. Not exactly what I would call a ‘victory’.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  53. Jimmy Carter is not even close to the worst president ever.

    Well, Harding wasn’t around long. Buchanan is a good candidate but Lincoln fixed his mistakes even though it cost 600,000 lives. We are still living with Carter’s blunders, chiefly radical Islam and inflation.

    Why don’t you do a little reading on the subject about what actual experts think before we weild that sad, pithy little opinion of yours.

    Experts like you, perhaps ? I’ve been reading experts for 50 years. Let’s compare lists. I suspect you are not old enough to remember just how bad Carter was. How about 21% mortgage interest and 18% car loans ?

    We are still dealing with his failures in Iran and Afghanistan.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  54. Reagan couldn’t defeat the communists and radicals by himself? I would argue that he has been deified on a much more grand scale than Obama has.

    Carter has been trying to fix the errors of many presidents with his efforts in Palestine. The Soviet-Afghan war happened almost exclusively under Reagan’s watch. Seems like he would have to share in some of the blame for the rise of the Taliban (that is, if you are still willing to claim that Carter is exclusively to blame for radical islam-what the “h” kind of claim is that?).

    Ed from PA (836625)

  55. I would argue that he has been deified on a much more grand scale than Obama has.

    Reagan has an actual legacy, as opposed to a hopey fairy tale. And still, he was never deified, let alone to the extent of Obama worship.

    Pablo (99243e)

  56. Nailed it, Dr. K. My guess is that EFP was in nappies during the 80s. I well remember how the press described Reagan as “stupid” (sound familiar), senile, so religious he would start a nuclear war to initiate Armageddon, a believer in astrology, and needlessly bellicose, since the Soviets were just misunderstood.

    After all, the Soviets just needed someone to sit down with them without preconditions.

    Most people who get into these “worst Presidents” list carry their own prejudices—and lack of historical context—like a gigant set of psychological Samsonite bags.

    Example: ask most people today about Woodrow Wilson’s record regarding human rights. Good luck on that. I take that back: first ask them in what years WW was President. And which party?

    People who hate GW Bush will just hate the guy. They generally don’t know much about history.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  57. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5029204.ece

    There’s another list which does not have Carter at the bottom. Care to reexamine?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  58. Carter has been trying to fix the errors of many presidents with his efforts in Palestine.

    Carter is a malignant piece of shit who doesn’t know a terrorist he doesn’t love.

    Pablo (99243e)

  59. “The black part I believe, you’re going to have to provide some sort of link for that second part.”

    EFP – Can’t you be bothered to research the background of your candidate yourself? Are you helpless? Google the Percy Sutton connection.

    Can you point out who is claiming that Jimmy Carter is exclusively responsible for the rule of the Taliban, please? You keep throwing out what seem to be lefty created strawmen for debunking rather than points actually made by commenters on this site, but intellectual dishonesty deems to be one of your hallmarks.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  60. Well that was the first and third hits on Google, EFP. It’s all about the prejudices of listmakers. Unless you would like to sit down and present a detailed and referenced (beyond UK newspapers and focus groups with political agendas) analysis.

    Heck you could research itself. Perhaps even Patterico would consider you writing a post where YOU did the research, reading, and analysis.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  61. When Reagan declared USSR to be evil, the Dems were falling all over themselves trying to get to the “open mic nite” to declare they weren’t the ones who said that terrible thing. The Dems were very vocal in their shrill “alarm” that Reagan was inviting WWIII with his statements. The Dems wanted to Chamberlain USSR and not call a spade a spade. Reagan defeated the USSR without Democrat help.

    As AC says during Cleveland Cavalier broadcasts, “Get that weak stuff outta here!”

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  62. “Carter has been trying to fix the errors of many presidents with his efforts in Palestine.”

    EFP – He’s a joke. Watch his interview with Meredith Viera from a couple of days ago.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  63. Comment by Pablo — 1/28/2009 @ 9:07 am

    I love the arguments that you (collective you) come up with on these sites. They don’t really require much more than a feeling. I don’t think Obama has been deified. I think he is well liked, which is a huuuge difference. But again, you really don’t have to come up with proof or any statistics to suggest he has been deified, you can just post surly comments about your feelings. Feelings, not facts. Once again.

    I ‘feel’ like Obama is being deified. I ‘feel’ that there is a liberal media bias. I ‘feel’ that Jimmy Carter is the worst president ever. Who cares if there isn’t much to back it up, the 20-percenters (aka the conservative ‘yes-men’) will do their little bobblehead dance wherever there is a non-conservative idea to be hacked down.

    I like (well, liked) Fred Rogers, but I worship Jesus. Huge difference. I want you to look up the words ‘like’ and ‘worship’ in the dictionary and report on the differences.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  64. “I love the arguments that you (collective you) come up with on these sites.”

    EFP – I love your lack of arguments, just present as narrative. The next argument you present on this site will be your first.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  65. Wow. I read this line:

    “…I love the arguments that you (collective you) come up with on these sites. They don’t really require much more than a feeling. …”

    And I thought: here goes that irritating projection concept again.

    Different day, same song.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  66. Intellectual Leadership, from EFP!
    It is the Millenium!
    We Are Saved!
    All Hail Ed…All Hail Ed!

    AD (ca3284)

  67. I wonder how old EFP was during the Carter years, or if he was even hatched yet. I was too young to vote but old enough to remember the lines at gas stations, the high unemployment rate, the high inflation rate, the high interest rates, the “Day 444: America Held Hostage” on Nightline.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  68. Soviet-Afghan war happened almost exclusively under Reagan’s watch

    The Soviet-Afghan war started almost a year before Reagan was elected. Don’t you remember Jimmy Carter taking a defiant stand against the USSR and not sending American athletes to the Moscow Olympics? Don’t you remember why it was such a big deal that the US hockey team won the gold medal at the Lake Placid Olympics?

    Reagan helped the mujahadeen, but blaming Reagan for the rise of the Taliban is incredibly myopic.

    Steverino (69d941)

  69. EFP – Ince it became clear that the media was supressing information about Obama’s background to avoid embarrassing him, Rev. Wright, the Annenberg Challenge, ACORN, etc., most conscientious voters would have taken it upon themselves to learn more about the man. It’s clear that you don’t fall into that conscientious voter class.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  70. I don’t think Obama has been deified.

    That’s because you’re not paying attention.

    Click away, junior. And take your time. I could do this all day.

    Pablo (99243e)

  71. I don’t have to “feel that The Lightworker is being deified, I can link to it.

    http://www.artofobama.com/
    http://www.drawingmemories.com/aboutrenewedhope.html
    http://www.obamaartreport.com/

    Have you picked up your Pocket Obama/Little Blue Book yet?

    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/chairman_obamas_little_blue_book/

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2009/01/24/oprah-show-glows-obama-light-new-age-here

    Wednesday’s post-inaugural edition of The Oprah Winfrey Show, taped at a Washington restaurant, overflowed with strange and messianic notions about Obama and how the thrill over him is unanimous. Actor Forest Whitaker summed it up for Oprah: “The light of the New Age is here.” Oprah pal Gayle King passed along her agreement with a message that “Not only does he hear us. He feels us. That when I hear Barack Obama, they said, he talks to my soul.” Whitaker also strangely claimed “we’re not used to seeing” a president and a First Lady who love each other, but the Obamas have signaled “it’s okay to love.”

    Techie (6b5d8d)

  72. Now we see that when it is convenient to Obama, he will mention his muslim “heritage”.

    SPQR (72771e)

  73. The Taliban (students) are a creation of the ISI (Pakistani Intelligence), and came into being during a period of time following the collapse of the Soviet Union when the United States had withdrawn interest from Afghanistan, and was prohibited by Congress from interacting with Pakistan. Pakistan was being led at that time by Benazir Bhutto, but the military was firmly under the control of fundamentalists put into place by Zia al-Haq, who instituted Sharia in Pakistan. There was great political dissension within Pakistan during the 90′s that allowed A.Q.Khan to free-lance his nuclear lab and provide its’ output to players in the Islamic World such as Hussein in Iraq, the Mullahs in Iran, and Khaddafi in Libya.

    AD (ca3284)

  74. Ed, you really have no understanding of the history of either the Reagan administration, nor the Afghan wars, if you want to assign blame for the Taliban on Reagan. Reagan had been out of office for many years before the Taliban ever became a significant force. In fact, their first military operations in their efforts to take over Afghanistan occurred in the Clinton administration.

    SPQR (72771e)

  75. Don’t confuse them with facts, guys. They’re working from their narrative, and that’s all that matters!

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  76. Yes, GIGO!

    AD (ca3284)

  77. This one’s too good to not include:

    “Barack Obama is the most famous living person in history.”

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/01/is-obama-the-most-famous-living-person-ever.html

    Techie (6b5d8d)

  78. VDH on the stimulus package (H/T Instapundit – emphasis mine)

    “…At some point in all this serial hysteria, we are beginning to see the problem is not in the stars of the economy or of the war, but in ourselves—a weird generation (Boomers) that, when it finally came of age, proved to be just about what we could expect of it from what we saw in its youth.”

    AD (ca3284)

  79. Techie: That is probably true.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  80. So SPQR is going to pretend that the presidents between Clinton and Carter had nothing to do with radical Islam, but that the bookends of those 20 years bear all the blame for its ascent? I would say that is an amazing little conjecture, sir. Well played.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  81. Ed from PA — that’s not at all what SPQR wrote.

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  82. EFP has never been interested in facts. He has always been interested in how he can spin liberal connotations of the misinformation of incorrect data.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  83. Ed from PA — that’s not at all what SPQR wrote.

    And it’s also not true. Reagan (the deity, right, Ed?) dropped the ball regarding Iran and Hezbollah. The “paper tiger” notion that started with Carter was solidified by Reagan’s inaction and failure to respond.

    Pablo (99243e)

  84. I didn’t claim Reagan was a diety, I said that he is more often deified than Obama.

    Also, if Clinton is to blame for the rise of the Taliban, who is to blame for the insurgence of the Taliban? Obama?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  85. I would think that Karzai might have to shoulder some of that blame…it is his country, after all.

    AD (ca3284)

  86. …and, don’t you mean “resurgence”, not insurgence,
    since they did run the country at one point, and are trying to regain their previous status?

    AD (ca3284)

  87. Do you want to take a shot at the question, AD?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  88. Already answered, Ed.

    We operate in Afghanistan under the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated with that government, and have to work within the sensibilities of the political structure in Khabul. Also, without turning the political structure of Pakistan completely upside-down and introducing additional instability into the region, it is very difficult to do anything about the Taliban redoubt that exists within Waziristan, and the North-West Province which includes the Swat Valley.
    When you solve those problems, get back to me.

    AD (ca3284)

  89. Ohhhhh. Right. We were d*cking around in Iraq. Thanks for the answer, AD.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  90. Ed from my home state wrote:

    Jimmy Carter is not even close to the worst president ever. Why don’t you do a little reading on the subject about what actual experts think before we weild that sad, pithy little opinion of yours. You could poke somebody’s metaphorical eyes out, much like you must have done to both of your own, in light of that Carter comment.

    As it happens, I read and reviewed Mr Carter’s book, Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid. The review is very long, and in three parts (Part 1, Part 2 and Conclusion), but after reading Mr Carter’s book, my estimate of the man actually dropped. He was the presidential form of Rachel Corrie, just so persuaded that people will like us if we are just nice to them.

    A President with cojones would have had the hostages out of Tehran in three days, or solved the problem permanently. All he needed to do was say, “Mr Khoumeini, either you will have all of our people safely on a flight out of your country within 72 hours, or we will simply declare them to be unfortunate casualties, heroes who died when Tehran and Qom were reduced to radioactive holes in the ground,” and meant it!

    Instead, he was not only humiliated, but his weakness encouraged the Soviets to think that they could get away with the invasion of Afghanistan. Of course, the Soviets he punished severely, by boycotting the Olympics! That sure showed how tough he was.

    The politically correct Dana (3e4784)

  91. EFP, are you belittling my daughter’s work in Iraq? She spent 15 months in Iraq. Are you belittling her?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  92. Ed from my home state wrote:

    The Soviet-Afghan war happened almost exclusively under Reagan’s watch.

    I cannot believe that you wrote this with a straight face! Yeah, it occurred mostly on President Reagan’s watch — as did the Iran-Iraq War — but both of those wars started when Mr Catret was president; it’s kind of difficult to blame President Reagan for events that started before he was president.

    I’d argue that it’s quite possible that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan happened because our 39th President had already demonstrated that he had no guts, that he was unwilling to do anything other than bluster and use harsh words. The Soviets had their reasons for invading Afghanistan that were independent of the United States, but the US certainly demonstrated nothing along the lines of deterrence.

    Even his inept willingness to sign the slanted-toward-the-Soviets SALT II Treaty demonstrated his weakness in dealing with strong men.

    He was simply too weak a man to be president.

    The historically correct Dana (3e4784)

  93. Comment by John Hitchcock — 1/28/2009 @ 12:39 pm

    Oh, here we go…..

    Why is it that we can belittle a teacher’s work with no sympathy, but I mention that we shouldn’t have been in Iraq and someone has to throw a hissy.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  94. Why is it every soldier I have personally talked to, and I have personally talked to many enlisted and officer, has said the Iraqi citizens are glad we are there and want us to stay there and clean things up for them?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  95. I’m not sure which teacher you want to belittle. If you are belittling Mr Freshwater (who you can google, I’m sure), you will get a whole different battle from me.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  96. Why is it every soldier I have personally talked to, and I have personally talked to many enlisted and officer, has said the Iraqi citizens are glad we are there and want us to stay there and clean things up for them?

    Hitch: I don’t know, but if you were putting your life on the line wouldn’t you want to put yourself in a position to talk to those who are glad you are doing it? It is human nature.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  97. EFP, it’s obvious you never got deployed by the military. I pretty much am sure you never spent time in the military.

    You don’t go wherever you want to go. You go where the military tells you to go. You meet the people who happen to be where the military told you to be. You have absolutely zero control over who you meet. Please do go buy yourself a brain. Please do use that brain you bought to think things through in a logical fashion. And once you do that, please do get back to me with your apology. Beyond that, shut your insidious, disrespectful, deceitful mouth. Because I obviously know better. I know better through personal experience and through personally talking to people who have personal experience. You only have leftist talking points. I have facts.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  98. You have absolutely zero control over who you meet.

    That is not true.

    And “please do” bag that blowhard attitude. I am not buying it, nor does it intimidate me. I won’t tell you my background, so you can quit trying to bait me.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA. You have not presented any ‘facts’. You have presented your feelings. This garbage about ‘facts, not feelings’ being the mantra of the right is total B.S. and you know it. Nobody around here presents facts that haven’t been carefully packaged by the heritage foundation or hot air.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  99. Revelation…
    Ed is Levi without the mouth, and only half the intellect.

    AD (ca3284)

  100. You left out the Zionist overlords, Eddie.

    Techie (6b5d8d)

  101. “Why is it that we can belittle a teacher’s work with no sympathy, but I mention that we shouldn’t have been in Iraq and someone has to throw a hissy.”

    EFP – I guess I can understand why you were suddenly switching subjects to teachers and Iraq since you were getting your ass so thoroughly whipped on the subject of Afghanistan and President Carter. Wgy don’t you take your own suggestion and do a little reading on the subjects first next time. Those of us who lived through Jimmah’s Administration and voted for his opponent the first time and during his reelection campaign remember the horror show well.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  102. “Nobody around here presents facts that haven’t been carefully packaged by the heritage foundation or hot air.”

    EFP – Have you presented anything resembling a fact that hasn’t been debunked?

    GO!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  103. EFP, I’ve been to “Paradise Island,” Court Street and “29 stumps.” While I never went overseas, I know a bit about military life. My daughter has been in the Army, on active duty, since 20060810. I know about her military life. I have flown directly into Army posts to visit her. Can you guess how many civilians were on those flights for civilian purposes?

    When you are so severely outclassed, you should just admit defeat or at the very least, shut up, so you don’t look “more stupider” (to fit your vocab level) than you have actually shown yourself to be.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  104. EFP is the type of individual who, without his credit-card statement, would be unable to tell you what he did last month.

    AD (ca3284)

  105. EFP is in a contest with Mario and Peter for the coveted title of Twatwaffle of the Day. Peter is way out in front, EFP, but you are doing yeoman’s work in tracking him down. Keep up the hard work.

    JD (446d75)

  106. AD – Without his daily talking points from Kos, TPM, etc., he would not know what to think. That much is clear.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  107. Yes, but mariO is a closer…or is that a closed-mind, I can never keep those straight?

    AD (ca3284)

  108. Just a question, which is brought to mind by the controversy about that TX b-ball game….

    Is there a Mercy Rule at PP re running up the score against trolls?

    AD (ca3284)

  109. EFP, Mario, and Peter are the only people here that think for themselves. This is such a familiar Leftist canard that it makes me laugh every time I see it. These clowns are as predictable as a bear shitting in the woods.

    JD (446d75)

  110. I think the suggest that Ed and Levi might have a close relationship merits consideration. I was going to respond to a couple of his inanities about Afghanistan and Reagan but others beat me to it. I think Carter’s response to crisis, boycott the Olympics after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, and whine when the Iranians took the embassy, led straight to our present problem with Islam.

    I think we are going to take hits like those we took under Carter with Obambi in the White House. He can blame Bush for a while but eventually, he will have to face the fact that he is in charge and it isn’t a speech he’s giving. It’s real life.

    Mike K (8df289)

  111. #106

    Just a question, which is brought to mind by the controversy about that TX b-ball game….

    Is there a Mercy Rule at PP re running up the score against trolls?

    Comment by AD — 1/28/2009 @ 1:38 pm

    My younger brother always ran his mouth. He used to run his mouth against me and I would take him down and punch him in the shoulder to prevent any real damage. He used to run his mouth against others and I would have to come in to rescue him. He would also declare to others that he could beat me up (he couldn’t beat up a waterlogged noodle) and I would have people blind-side tackling me, only to have them under me as I fell to the ground.

    Loud-mouth idiots like EFP, Mario, Peter, et al, will never cry for mercy, just as my brother never cried for mercy. Even as I had my brother pinned to the ground, his idiot mouth never stopped running. Even when every witness to the event knew my brother was hopelessly defeated, my brother never stopped his inanity. EFP, Mario, Peter, et al are all like my exp with my brother. They’re too idiotic and too egocentric to admit they are wrong.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  112. I guess that’s a NO!

    Bring-It-On.

    AD (ca3284)

  113. Yeah, the all caps “HAHAHAHA” did look kind of familiar.

    But this EFP is just a partisan game-player. He accuses people of doing things that he himself does. Either he is aware of it, and is playing his own version of WoW, or is unaware of it, which would be sad. And hopefully unlikely.

    It’s just about argumentation or contradiction, not debate.

    What I like best about the Republican Party, despite what people like EFP state, is how dubious many voters were regarding, say, John McCain. Or Sarah Palin.

    I didn’t see very many folks on the Left being equally unsure about Barack Obama and Joe Biden. That isn’t healthy. It quickly turns into “Dear Leader” nonsense.

    So before anyone claims that Reagan was deified “more” than Obama, you might want to look at things like magazine covers, and slobbering MSM coverage. Remember the “chiseled pecs” news report?

    Naturally, folks like EFP will:

    1. Deny what I wrote.
    2. When presented with evidence, produce some extremist statements that do not reflect rank and file reporting.
    3. Write, yeah, well, but the Right wing is worse.
    4. When presented with further information, attack the source.
    5. When presented with more and more information, change the subject.

    I am utterly mystified why so many of the progressivist Left accuse folks on the Right of being mindless drones who question nothing…while doing the intellectual and ethical limbo for President Obama.

    To be sure, I say give him a chance, within the confines of what I believe (that is to say, I will recognize when he does something well, and criticize where we disagree—unlike the last eight years of BDS). But putting Obama on the cover of a national news magazine, photoshopped to look like George Washington?

    Really?

    About someone with Obama’s resume? Reagan was Governor of California.

    Again, we’ll see.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  114. I won’t tell you my background, so you can quit trying to bait me.

    If nothing else proves the opinion that this commenter is of an adolescent age, this is conclusive. When someone won’t disclose even the barest of facts about himself/herself, the jig is up. Consider yourself pantsed, defrocked and swirlied in the public toilet, Eddy.

    Dmac (eb0dd0)

  115. Comment by Eric Blair — 1/28/2009 @ 2:00 pm

    EB, there is a mental condition called “projection”,
    you really should look into it – it might answer a lot of your questions about the Left.

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    AD (ca3284)

  116. Dmac – Maybe it is in international import/export.

    JD (446d75)

  117. Like Voltaire, AD, I will not agree or disagree with your statement, but I defend to my death your right to say it!

    Grin.

    Seriously, do they genuinely not see the projection, or is more cannabis-impaired college student syndrome?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  118. Eric – Like with Mario, they are either willfully obtuse, or aggressively ignorant, neither of which should be tolerated.

    JD (446d75)

  119. Careful, EB. In quoting Voltaire, you’re starting to sound a lot like Barry (AuH20, that is).

    And, Yes! There is a great untapped research area out there on the long-term damage done by chronic cannabis consumption.

    We could call it “Spicoli syndrome”.

    AD (ca3284)

  120. Dmac – Maybe it is in international import/export.

    I’m thinking yes, along with a veritable cornucopia of amazing achievements such as:

    - ginormous house with a lawn the size of Fenway Park;

    - 25 children, all of whom are fabulously successful, and of course adore and worship their father;

    - wife who bears an uncanny resemblance to Heidi Klum;

    - a golf score lower than Tiger Woods.

    Dmac (eb0dd0)

  121. Heidi Klum is ugly… It took me 10 seconds to decipher Goldwater (I know, I’m slow)… I’m a competitor so I want a higher score than Tiger…

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  122. “What’s the matter with kids these days?”

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  123. daleyrocks wrote (or is that daleywrote rocks?:

    Those of us who lived through Jimmah’s Administration and voted for his opponent the first time and during his reelection campaign remember the horror show well.

    Alas! There is but one vote of mine for which I feel deeply ashamed: I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976.

    OK, people, go ahead and denounce me; I know I deserve it. :(

    The humiliated Dana (556f76)

  124. Mr Hitchcock wrote:

    Heidi Klum is ugly

    I know an excellent ophthalmologist you could see,

    The Dana who wears contacts but is not blind (556f76)

  125. humiliated Dana – you already got what you deserved, from January of 77 through January of 81.

    Apogee (f4320c)

  126. Dana of the many qualifiers:

    I voted for John Glenn in 1984 as I was voting for Ronald Reagan. That was the first year I was able to vote. I never voted for Glenn again. I wisened up after that year.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  127. So if the New Messiah can not use his Messianic language skills to get concessions or cooperation from Republicans, are we to assume that when it comes to Iran, North Korea, Hamas, Hezzbollah, etc. we will see much better results? See where hiring a lawyer and the son of a car salesman to lead our nation gets you?

    Dale (f9a9bb)

  128. Me: I won’t tell you my background, so you can quit trying to bait me.

    Dmac: If nothing else proves the opinion that this commenter is of an adolescent age, this is conclusive.

    Yes, nothing spells out ‘conclusive’ evidence like absolutely nothing. Thank you, Dmac, for proving the point that exactly zero evidence can be used to prove an argument undoubtably…. ho hum, just another day on patterico.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  129. Dmac, I think you struck a nerve. I mean, why comment on what you wrote if…well, it wasn’t true?

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  130. “Yes, nothing spells out ‘conclusive’ evidence like absolutely nothing.”

    EFP – Congratulations! You have summed up all of your comments in a single sentence. As one of your comrades in arms famously stated here “I work is done.”

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  131. Obviously Mr. Blair is not a lawyer. You also believe that no evidence is enough evidence to conclude.

    Ohhhhh, right. I forgot this is the same crowd that is still buying Bush’s reasons to go into Iraq. How silly of me. You know what else is good.. beef stew with strawberries and apple pie mixed into it. Do you want to why you’ll think it is tasty? I’ll tell you. It is because I say it is nasty.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  132. Oh, goodie! Add daleyrocks to that list.

    So now we have:
    Eric Blair
    Daleyrocks
    Dmac

    As those posters who do not feel they need to back up any assertions with any positive evidence. Would any others like to add their names to this list? It is quite esteemed.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  133. Hey, Ed? Everyone knows what you are doing, instead of studying for sociology tonight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoGVgj1MtY

    Seriously, dude, you are just like the Cleese character.

    Look, all you have been doing today is parsing words and insulting people. My favorite part was your complaining about being insulted as you tried to insult Patterico and a broad selection of other people.

    Move on, to coin a phrase.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  134. Eddie from PA – You have forgotten or neglected to place yourself in that select category of people. Oiram beat you and Peter out for Twatwaffle of the Day, but do not despair. There is still Douchenozzle of the Day you can win tomorrow.

    JD (d3f294)

  135. You don’t want to put yourself on the list? I have been linking to stories like a mad man but I could see how that becomes ‘no evidence’ when you take it through the O’Reilly no -spin zone crowd. I’ll leave you off for now, but let me know if you change your mind, mmkay?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  136. Well, there is some truth in this statement:

    “… I have been linking to stories like a mad man but I could see how that becomes ‘no evidence’ when you take it through the O’Reilly no -spin zone crowd…”

    Guess which part, folks?

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  137. What are you talking about Blair? You can go back and figure out where my links are on your own. You can read, right?

    ….

    ….

    right?

    (silence)

    Ed from PA (836625)

  138. Yes, linking to a wiki description of the Columbus, OH newspaper is really compelling evidence that the MSM is not liberal. Knocked my fuckin’ socks off with that one, Eddie.

    Eric – I would put money on the mad man part being the only nugget of truth in that one …

    JD (d3f294)

  139. Yes, those are some stellar links. These are too …
    Here

    Here

    JD (d3f294)

  140. Um. Don’t you have anything else to do, Ed?

    My guess is that you are avoiding studying for a sociology exam or something.

    All you have done today is use contradiction style argument (right out of Monty Python’s “Argument Room”) and insult people.

    Having earlier complained that people were insulting you.

    Oh, and occasionally loftily assert you are above partisanship, which is the most laughable part of your performance.

    Dude, why not move on? You are very tiresome.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  141. EFP – Please list the facts or evidence presented in your comments 132,133, 135 and 137.

    Go!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  142. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beJ9yJpR_DA

    This is priceless. If you guys want to live in the surreal world in which I am suddenly 16 again (hey, I wouldn’t mind being 16 again) could you imagine me as the guy in the tie and coat? He owned O’Reilly in this clip. Unbelievable. What an idiot.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  143. I am starting to suspect this guy ain’t a whole lot older than sixteen. The YouTube video is yet another example. Pretty soon he will be posting in all caps again.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  144. Eddie is one of those clowns that thinks that O’Reilly is a conservative. That is usually quite telling.

    JD (d3f294)

  145. I think his brain goes to eleven, JD.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  146. Eddie The Listmaker – Before your Youtube turd drop I counted 23 comments and two links, both to Presidential surveys, which really weren’t the subject of this thread. One was a survey of one, the U.S. News link and the other a purely internal U.K. Times survey, so both were supremely helpful in defending against the dastardly slurs against Jimmah Carter made here, whom you are too young to remember as evidenced by your mangling of the history around his administration.

    You are indeed a madman, but not a linking madman. If you need the assistance of links you confirm for you the timing of events in U.S. and world history, which has become evident, I would aagain suggest that you take your own advice and do some reading before trying to talk with the adults.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  147. Eleventy, daley. Eleventy!

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  148. Comment by Eric Blair — 1/28/2009 @ 9:14 pm

    I have never posted in all caps. You’re lying. This is not unusual, but I am calling you out as a liar. Eric Blair is a liar. He is a lying professor. If you don’t want to continue to be called Eric Blair the liar then I suggest that you find a place on this site where I have posted in all caps and link to it.

    This is your mission, Eric the Liar. Go!

    Ed from PA (836625)

  149. Comment by JD — 1/28/2009 @ 9:17 pm

    You’re probably one of those guys that thinks Keith Olbermann is liberal. That is usually quite telling.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  150. Ed – Where do you think Olberdouchenozzle falls on the political spectrum?

    JD (a9f2c7)

  151. If you’re a little to the right of Vladimir Illich Ulyanov, you’re a conservative, doncha know?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  152. Jeez, Ed. Starting out the day with a “hey, nonny, nonny” in your step, I see.

    You are Just. Another. Troll.

    And I base that entirely on your style of posting. You say things to stir people up, off topic, and then contradict them.

    Sounds pretty college student to me.

    Oh, and by the way? Go look at your own post at #99.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  153. “But that was only all caps for just a little bit! You’re not playing fair!”

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  154. Now, John, don’t steal Ed’s next self-excusing line. It’s so…Republican of you (grin).

    Like I wrote, this person is just here to argue. I doubt he keeps track of what he writes. It’s just contradiction argumentation.

    But if you are going to mimic this person, you need to add a gratuitous insult. Still, not admitting fault would be the place to start—you might consider adding that Republicans post in all caps far more often than Left leaning Progressives.

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  155. Eric Blair, if that is your real pseudonym, I wouldn’t let you teach my cat. (How’d I do?)

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  156. Close. You have leave off my first name when you do that, to sound so much tougher, like in gym class.

    I enjoy your posts, John, whether or not we agree. I have to go teach now, so I won’t be able to follow the next round of trollish nonsense from the usual suspect(s).

    May your day be Troll-Free!

    Eric Blair (e92b94)

  157. Comment by Eric Blair — 1/29/2009 @ 7:38 am

    You said post in all caps, liar.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmmjgOWQifg

    Olbermann isn’t liberal, so this clip isn’t biased.

    Ed from PA (c313be)

  158. Comment by JD — 1/29/2009 @ 7:22 am

    I would ask you the same about O’Reilly-nozzle (sorry, I do not share the same gross fixation on female cleansing products). Where do you think he falls?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  159. http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/oreillyproof1.htm

    There is some proof that O’Reilly is a conservative.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  160. Note that Ed doesn’t answer the question on Olbermann, he just deflects.

    Steverino (69d941)

  161. Note that nobody calls themselves Steverino once they reach Toddlerhood.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  162. The fact is that you can’t divorce O’Reilly from your ideology just because he is a POS. You really are thick, I introduced Olbermann into the discussion as an example of just how idiotic it was to claim that O’Reilly is not a conservative.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  163. I predicted EFP would attack a moniker. I was just mistaken on which moniker he would attack.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  164. Luckily for you, being mistaken feels kind of homey.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  165. EFP, thank you for providing examples of ad hominem.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  166. Note that nobody calls themselves Steverino once they reach Toddlerhood.

    The monicker is a homage to my father, who calls me Steverino to this day. He was a big fan of the Steve Allen Show.

    I don’t call myself Steverino in real life. But then, I have no trouble distinguishing between the online world and real life.

    The fact is that you can’t divorce O’Reilly from your ideology just because he is a POS

    O’Reilly isn’t part of my ideology, Ed. Stop imputing beliefs to other people. O’Reilly is a populist media whore, and his positions vary between what would be considered liberal (such as anti-death penalty) and conservative. Olbermann, on the other hand, not so much; try to name a single position of Olbermann’s that would be considered conservative.

    But, again, you haven’t answered the question on Olbermann, you continue to deflect.

    Steverino (69d941)

  167. Do you not realize how ridiculous this thread has become? You all have accused me of ad hominem, thread-jacking, not providing enough evidence (that one I disagree with), and you all have been right with me every step of the way. Each one of you has used ad homimen, have made accusations/assumptions that have not been adequately supported, and have used these same tactics to take the thread away from it’s original objective. So what gives you the free pass to do this and then attack me for it? Because there are more of you here (rest assured, you are still a minority… the 20-percenters)?

    You attacked my (assumed) age, (possible) profession, etc. So what makes that okay? Anybody got an argument ‘nuanced’ enough to tap out an answer?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  168. Anti-death penalty is not necessarily a liberal stance. There are very few industrialized nations that use the death penalty. Are you saying that the whole world is liberal because of this stance? George Bush suspended his belief in the free-market system to pass the bailout. Does that make him a liberal? No.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_9_139/ai_n27144835

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence

    Ed from PA (836625)

  169. Oh, please, Ed, once you start posting we know a thread will become ridiculous.

    Refresh my memory: where did I use ad hominem on you? I called you out on your deflection, and you made a crack about my handle; in that case, you were the one engaging in ad hominem, not me.

    Steverino (69d941)

  170. EFP – Six comments this morning and no facts or evidence so far. You are making the point very well about your commenting style all by youself.

    Carry on.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  171. EFP, how about I point out your attempt at a tu quoque (found in my above link) as your only self-defense while maintaining ad populum, ad hominem, hasty generalization.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  172. Anti-death penalty is not necessarily a liberal stance. There are very few industrialized nations that use the death penalty. Are you saying that the whole world is liberal because of this stance?

    Typical deflection. In the United States, opposition to the death penalty tends to be a liberal position. I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks, because this is a discussion of American conservative vs. liberal politics.

    My point was that O’Reilly holds positions from both sides, conservative and liberal. Can you find a single position of Olbermann’s that would be considered conservative?

    Steverino (69d941)

  173. ah-hem. 167. Daley.

    According to my list from yesterday you don’t require any information to prove an argument anyway, so I don’t know why you are crying about this.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  174. EFP – Why is Bill O’Reilly relevany to this discussion?

    Do you imagine that everybody on this site watches him?

    Do you imagine that all conservatives watch him?

    If they did, his audience would be an even greater multiple of Olbermann’s.

    Do you see black helicopters outside you windows?

    Do you think someone is listening to you phone calls?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  175. George Bush suspended his belief in the free-market system to pass the bailout. Does that make him a liberal? No.

    No, but it makes him less than fully conservative. Do you not understand the nuance there?

    Steverino (69d941)

  176. “According to my list from yesterday you don’t require any information to prove an argument anyway, so I don’t know why you are crying about this.”

    EFP – According to my review of the thread, you didn’t rebut a single thing I said. What more evidence is required?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  177. You’re missing the point. This is not about O’Reilly, you made it about him by obsessing over a video I posted. By the way, there seems to be a lot of posters on here who have an unhealthy interest in my age. That Eric the Liar (TM) really really wants me to be a 16 year old boy is very disturbing.

    That is how O’Reilly got into the discussion, but I really wish you would just read the threads before you ask these questions, Daley.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  178. EFP, I asked people to quit buggering up names and for the most part, they have. Now I ask you to quit buggering up names.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  179. “That is how O’Reilly got into the discussion, but I really wish you would just read the threads before you ask these questions, Daley.”

    EFP – I’ve been reading the threads and it may surprise you to know that you are not unique. We get tiresome liberal trolls like you visiting all the time spouting what they believe to be original thought but which is really hackneyed old tripe and debunked talking points about conservatives. It’s boring to educate yet another brain dead liberal/progressive who believes he can come here and reeducate a bunch of conservatives about history and the correct way to move the country forward.

    Carry on.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  180. I am not liberal, Daley. Do you really think that spouting off your claims without any regard to the facts is really working on the hearts and minds of America? You have a long way to get back into the national discussion. People don’t want to hear that trickle-down economics works. They look in their wallets and scratch their heads, and all you’ve got is ‘death penalty, no abortion (interesting duo, but this is America), pre-emptive war, and tax breaks for those who don’t need them’. If you shout them loud enough maybe people will start to listen, you think. I don’t think so. Americans are tired of it, and because I am here and disagree I am your rag doll.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  181. Ed from PA,

    What Americans are tired of is politicians who preach one thing and then have $160MM coronations, eat Kobe steak and send their kids to private schools.

    Republicans big problem is not its values but the “conservative light” who mask as Republicans while being nothing more than Liberal Democrats spending money like drunken sailors on unworthy people and projects.

    Like George Bush.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  182. “Tax breaks for those who don’t need them.”
    Who earned the money that is being taxed?

    “death penalty, no abbortion (interesting duo, but this is America)”
    What? Keeping the guilty alive while killing the innocent is logical?

    “People don’t want to hear that trickle-down economics works.”
    That philosophy, when put into action pulled the US out of the stagflation we experienced during the Carter years. It pumped record amounts of tax money into the federal coffers (yes, the tax cut raised more taxes than tax increases).

    “I am not liberal, Daley.”
    And yet you take a decidedly liberal stance on all those issues you just put forth.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  183. Are you suggesting that Obama send his kids to public school? That would be a security nightmare.

    You’re not really a conservative if you have something against private schools, OuA!!!!.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  184. Take comments out of context to give them false meanings and then squawk about defeating the newly formed meanings much, EFP?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  185. Ed, I understand you are not terribly analytical but let me spell it out…

    As POTUS if you wish to send you kids to Private School, great.

    But to then block real reform of Public School via vouchers is hypocritical.

    Why block it unless you are trying to get Public Servant votes and support?

    Vouchers are freedom for parents, especially poor, working class ones.

    … and with respect to SECURITY, I am sure the other children at DC Public Schools would welcome it since today it is pretty bad.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  186. Hitch: Not everyone put to death is guilty. Until we can be 100% certain of that (and I don’t know how we can be) then we shouldn’t do it at all.

    Bill Kurtis has a really good book about this. He goes through a few cases that are very eye-opening.

    http://www.amazon.com/Death-Penalty-Trial-American-Justice/dp/158648446X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233250927&sr=8-2

    Being against the death penalty is not liberal. Being anti-trickle down economics is not liberal. I am in the middle on abortion. I don’t like it, but the conservative idea: “abolish abortion and once the baby is born it is not our problem” seems silly to me.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  187. What Americans are tired of is politicians who preach one thing and then have $160MM coronations, eat Kobe steak and send their kids to private schools.

    I am not sure you are referring to Obama here, but if you are suggesting that Americans are ‘tired of’ the president that they just voted for 2.5 months ago and then inaugurated in the largest such ceremony then your argument has been debunked. They are not tired of it.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  188. If we ever waited for 100% certainty on anything we would be paralyzed to do nothing at all.

    Your litmus test is IDIOTIC.

    How are you 100% sure we need a stimulus plan?

    How are 100% sure your mother really needed that welfare cheese?

    Being against the Death Penalty should not be a probabilistic argument but a moral one. Problem is it then renders Abortion …….

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  189. Ed from PA,

    Yes I am sure Americans are really amped about the $160MM coronation and the $125 per pound Kobe coming from Mr Money is evil unless it support my lifestyle.

    Don’t confuse deranged Jim Jones Barack Obama acolytes with America.

    Most Americans are giving him a pass but eventually the kool aid wears off. Remeber Bush had a 90% approval rating once too.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  190. Tired of Democrats wanting more taxes to then get ….

    Timmuh Geithner
    Charlie Rangel

    … and the list of Democrats who think taxes are for Republicans and non-party contributors.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  191. the conservative idea: “abolish abortion and once the baby is born it is not our problem” seems silly to me.

    Nobody who is Pro-Life believe that “and once the..” garbage. You are pulling a “poison the well” and “straw-man” when you make that audacious claim.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  192. “Americans are tired of it, and because I am here and disagree I am your rag doll.”

    EFP – Because you are here and spout incorrect information, discredited lies, misstate the positions of others, and fail to back up your assertions you are treated with the disrespect you deserve.

    If you commented in good faith you would be treated with respect, but you have chosen another path. Blame yourself, not others.

    “I am not liberal”

    WELL, EXCUUUUSSSSEE MMEEEEE!!!!!

    I can’t wait to hear this explaination.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  193. MOTUS is as transparent as that delicious carpaccio I had last night with truffle oil and cask-aged, 50 year old balsamic.

    It is all about him. As long as he is the center of it all — it is all good.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  194. Oua!!!!!

    Your comments don’t make sense. Obama won pretty handily, and his approval ratings are pretty high (so far). Bush’s ratings were only high because of the terrorist attacks. Weird how that works. In hindsight I don’t think Americans were too pleased with the pre-911 vacations and hullaballoo, but that is another post.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  195. Abortion is choice to kill.

    With the morning after pill and emergency contraception, no baby needs to be “parked” in a women’s womb.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  196. Ed – Do you like arguing with positions that people do not hold? Maybe that charicature in your head holds those positions, but not people in the read world.

    Where do you place Olberman on the political spectrum? Show your work.

    O’Reilly is a populist, and a blowhard. Because his show is on Fox, you assume that he is some leader of conservative thought. Your assumptions are flawed.

    JD (9e86cd)

  197. I am not a liberal, I just spew reflexive and knee-jerk traditionally liberal positions, in a manner consistent with modern liberal nutroots.

    JD (9e86cd)

  198. If there is ever a more tired and bullshit meme/canard than the Bush was on vacation before 9/11, I do not know what it could be. This is juvenile, not even sophomoric rhetoric, and then it wonders why it is ridiculed. Mock and scorn, point and laugh. It is all it deserves.

    We have a clear frontrunner for Twatwaffle of the Day.

    JD (9e86cd)

  199. Comment by JD — 1/29/2009 @ 9:57 am

    I linked to an O’Reilly is a conservative website. Debunk it.

    And you guys think that I am not actually posting information. You just pretend you don’t see it then accuse me of not providing it. You’re sort of like David Copperfield (the magician) without the talent.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  200. Linking to an O’Reilly is a conservative website proves what, exactly? That someone agrees with you?

    Where does Olberman fall on the political continuum? This is your chance to prove you are not a complete and total twatwaffle. We will not be holding our breath.

    JD (9e86cd)

  201. Obama wins 52pc of popular vote, McCain 46pc

    Mr Obama earned 63.25 million votes nationwide and Senator McCain, 55.90 million, NBC, CBS and Fox News reported, as final vote tallies trickled in.

    I’m not sure how that’s “pretty handily.”

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  202. I linked to an O’Reilly is a conservative website. Debunk it.

    Hold on a minute. I’ve got to find my “Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald are conservatives” links.

    You’re funny, Ed.

    Pablo (99243e)

  203. In hindsight I don’t think Americans were too pleased with the pre-911 vacations and hullaballoo, but that is another post.

    Wonder where “The One” will go come August?
    In case EFP hasn’t noticed, DC is a virtual ghost-town between Independence Day and Labor Day, nobody stays in town during August.
    I would venture to say that the Obama’s will be back in HI for the Summer – unless Hillary can get him a good deal on one of the digs she and Bill used to stay in on the ‘Vineyard?

    AD (7d0655)

  204. Here is a little vacation talk:

    http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Bush%20Break%20Longest%20in%20a%20Generation.html

    Here is a nice link of the electoral map. Lotsa blue, eh boys? Even Indiana! (final count 365-173)

    http://www.270towin.com/

    Ed from PA (836625)

  205. EFP, over 57 million voters voted for someone other than Obama. What about those people?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  206. Ed – For me, there are 2 points here that so obviously make you out to be a troll. First, your continued refusal to address specific questions made in response to your assertions. Specifically, where would you place Olberman in the political continuum. Second, that you think that President Bush, or any sitting President for that matter, is A) ever really on vacation, or B) that your nonsense about same is somehow relevant. Point and laugh. Mock and scorn. Expect nothing better than that, as you have proven you deserve no better.

    JD (9e86cd)

  207. Olbermann is left of O’Reilly. Does that answer your question, JD?

    Bush was on vacation more than any recent president that summer. It would have gone unnoticed except for what ended up happening in September.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  208. No, it does not even come close, Ed. But it does demonstrate how sophomoric and juvenile you are, as does the whole vacation meme/canard. Point and laugh, folks. Mock and scorn. Twatwaffle of the Day is practically wrapped up, and it is only a little bit after lunchtime. Brava, troll.

    JD (9e86cd)

  209. EFP’s link is to a story in the San Jose (CA) Mercury-News. When I Googled the author’s name, I came up with a bio here
    SHOCKAH! A writer at the LAT Business Section.
    Now that’s what you call fair and balanced.

    AD (7d0655)

  210. Haha, well thank you, JD. Normally I would feel bad about being called a Twatwaffle, but coming from you and your ilk it is quite the badge of honor.

    What was the answer you were looking for on the Olbermann question? Would you like my email address so that you can privately send me the answers you want to your questions so that it is up to your satisfaction?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  211. Bush was on vacation more than any recent president that summer. It would have gone unnoticed except for what ended up happening in September.

    No, Bush was not on vacation. He just wasn’t in Washington. Congress was recessed for the month of August. But Bush worked from his ranch in Crawford, holding meetings and meeting visiting heads of state.

    Seriously, the US President doesn’t get a vacation until they swear in his replacement.

    Steverino (69d941)

  212. EFP, try one of these terms: Liberal, center-left, centrist, center-right, conservative. Of course, I know you are being intentionally obtuse and doing your darnedest to avoid being pinned down on your view of Olbermann.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  213. Comment by John Hitchcock — 1/29/2009 @ 10:44 am

    From EFP’s perspective, all of those labels are Right-Wing.

    AD (7d0655)

  214. I would say he is to the left of me. I toeing the line and leaning to the left.

    Ed from PA (836625)

  215. Ed – do you have any clue how dumb the “Bush was on vacation” nonsense makes you look?

    SPQR (72771e)

  216. SPQR: Take your argument up with the (apparently super liberal) USA Today

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/august01/2001-08-03-bush-vacation.htm

    That’s right! You heard it here, folks. USA Today is a liberal newspaper.

    Do you know how idiotic taking your side of the argument makes you look?

    Ed from PA (836625)

  217. And, if you really think that Bush was putting in long days running the country while at his ranch, I would love to read about them. Just publish them in a book entitled: “The Way Things Are: A Balanced Look At My Crazy-Ass Views and Why I Can’t Come up With a Single Fact to Back Them up.”

    Ed from PA (836625)

  218. Folks, this Ed guy is just playing. I mean, calling me a “liar” after I demonstrated that he either:

    1. doesn’t remember his own posts
    2. is just trolling around to get reactions

    Heck, I don’t care about his age. If I didn’t like students, I would be an educator. I simply point out that his argumentation style (especially recently) is increasingly immature.

    Troll be gone! Or start actually posting…well, substance…instead of this “well, you’re another, only worse” approach.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  219. Wow—that was a Freudian slip on my part! If I didn’t like students, I wouldn’t be an educator.

    Though I admit I do know plenty of teachers who don’t care for students!

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  220. “I am not liberal”

    EFP – I can understand why you would want to fess up to that label given that it’s considered an epithet in many circles. Let’s see what else fits:

    Progressive

    Green

    Citizen of the World

    International Answer Loonwaffle

    Nor Luap Libertarian

    Anarchist

    Anarcho-Syndicalist

    Wobbly

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  221. Twatwaffle of the Day is not something to be proud of, Eddie. Don’t worry, Mario and Peter will give you a run for your money.

    JD (a635b5)

  222. That Eric the Liar (TM) really really wants me to be a 16 year old boy is very disturbing.

    So then you make the accusation that he’s a budding pedophile? Quite a bit of projection on your part – and what is suggests is more than a little disturbing.

    I toeing the line and leaning to the left.

    That’s brilliant – almost as good as I work here is done, but you’re getting there.

    Would you like my email address so that you can privately send me the answers you want to your questions so that it is up to your satisfaction?

    More projection – all you had to do is tell us some very basic facts about yourself, and yet you turn it into yet another paranoid/schizophrenic fantasy from your viewpoint.

    Dmac (eb0dd0)

  223. Dmac, thanks for the support. The guy is just annoyed that I showed he was making unfounded accusations…even forgetting what he posted earlier in the same thread.

    As for trying to call me a pedophile—well, that says more about him. And if he gets any worse, I’m pretty sure our host will give him The Steel Toed Boot Salute.

    I just hope he isn’t one of the earlier Trolls diu Jour!

    Eric Blair (0326a3)

  224. I just love the meme that the President is “running the country”.
    As if 300M of us do nothing each and every morning until we get that call/fax/email from the WH detailing what our tasks are for that day.

    The President, as new one’s find out quickly, doesn’t have the power to fire an elevator operator, or to make any civil-servant do something he particularly doesn’t want to do.

    Look at this flap over Wall-Street bonuses today – Obama cautioning Wall-Street execs to be more responsible, etc. They look to DC for money, they certainly don’t look there for the attributes that Obama says they should be demonstrating, for no-one on Capital Hill shows those abilities.
    Plus, how much in Executive Service bonuses will the Fed.Govt. pay out this year?
    And for what great works?
    Did anyone in the Executive Service save the taxpayers Billions of Dollars, devise a better way to assemble a Navy Destroyer?
    I don’t think so!
    But they’ll get the money just the same, as will those traders on Wall Street,
    who at least have a contract spelling out what they have to do to earn that bonus,
    and commits their employer to paying it.

    AD (7d0655)

  225. Very seriously, AD, there is power in leading by example. It is common for everyone—regardless of party—to claim that what a President does (like superexpensive food, or running up the thermostat) doesn’t really matter.

    But is part of leadership.

    I would love to see President Obama decide to contribute 10% of his salary to charity, and challenge other Americans to do the same.

    Voters notice.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  226. On the Wall Street thing, well I am kind of happy he went after them. They were his number ONE money people. So happy they are getting beaten down. They should have known better given MOTUS’s rhetoric.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  227. [...] paper used loaded language such as saying Republicans would “snipe” at Obama as he swam “against the partisan [...]

    Patterico's Pontifications » Patterico’s Los Angeles Dog Trainer Year in Review 2009 (e4ab32)


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