Patterico's Pontifications

I thought there was a pretty good story in the USC-Penn State Rose Bowl game. I am a big USC fan and have had season tickets for over 50 years. I well remember the 1963 Rose Bowl game when USC was # 1 and Wisconsin was #2. At half-time the score was USC ahead by 21 to 7. They came out in the second half and Ron Vanderkelen, the Wisconsin quarterback, went on a furious passing attack that totaled over 400 yards passing and the game ended 42 to 37. It was a fantastic game. I wish the 2009 USC players had known about it.

In the first half, it was all USC and close to the half, the USC players on the sidelines were celebrating as if the game was over. There was so much celebrating that USC was warned to stop or they would get a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

The second half began and Penn State came back with a furious offense and I thought, “Oh oh, here we go like 1963.” Well Sanchez brought them back but Penn State never gave up and they finished with a closer score than anyone would have predicted in the first half.

The moral of the story is that there is never a time when giving up is the best choice. The second moral is that you can peak too early and run the risk of underestimating the opponent. USC’s last couple of national championships prove that. The ones that didn’t happen. Penn State showed a lot of class.

Mike K (2cf494) — 1/22/2009 @ 6:21 pm

DRJ, that was an odd story. I don’t know quite what I think of it, since (being a father with small kids) I often see parents get carried away with competition. A little competition is good. But I think that the coach of the winning team in your post watched the following video snippet a bit too often:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30tyaXv6EI

Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/22/2009 @ 6:26 pm

Another perspective:

In the early 70s, two teenage entrepreneurs formed a company to measure traffic. The company earned a few thousand, but never really went anywhere. The entrepreneurs shut it down and formed a new venture. Their names are Bill Gates and Paul Allen and the new venture was called Micro-Soft.

Moral of the story: Sometimes it is wisest to admit defeat and try something else more promising.

Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 1/22/2009 @ 7:04 pm

Bradley, I am reading a book called “Fumbling the Future” about Xerox PARC. It’s interesting to see that it is much better than Hiltzik’s book, which I have praised, and I think it is because it does not have the anti-business bias. It has a lot about the origin of xerography. Talk about stories of persistence !

Mike K (2cf494) — 1/22/2009 @ 7:13 pm

I know I’m missing the moral of the story, but anyone else find it interesting that the losing school had only 20 girls in it, but 120 boys (and that’s why the girls’ team has trouble competing)? The school is openly directed towards students with learning differences. The gender dynamic’s not surprising, but still something we can learn from.

Eric (776816) — 1/22/2009 @ 7:24 pm

I think the coach of the winning was channelling this

And perhaps a bit of this

Joe (17aeff) — 1/22/2009 @ 7:44 pm

I had a completely different impression of that game the first time I read it, because I once attended a game that played out rather similarly, but with a very different final result. It was a soccer game that ended with a 10-0 score, after which the losing team did a victory lap of the stadium with everyone cheering them — and it wasn’t an “aren’t you special” kind of cheer, either.

Let me explain.

France has two different soccer competitions for its soccer clubs every year. One is a league competition where each division plays each other team from their division and win/loss records are totaled up at the end to determine the winner. The second is a massive single-elimination championship where all 64 or 128 (or whatever number) teams are randomly assigned positions in the bracket, and one team eventually ends up as the winner.

Now, one year, a little local neighborhood club team from St. Etienne (where I was living at the time) made it through three or four rounds of the competition and ended up facing Paris St. Germain. (For those who don’t know French soccer teams: the Paris-St.-Germain team is consistently ranked one of the top four teams in France, year after year. This is like your neighborhood basketball club playing against the Chicago Bulls). The Paris team could easily have sent out their second- or third-string players and gotten an easy win while their first-string guys took a rest. But they didn’t — Paris paid the small club team the honor of sending out all their first-string players to play against them. The match was held in St. Etienne, so the local team was playing at home — and I had tickets to the game.

At the end of the first half, the score was 4-0. After the second half, the score was 10-0. (Paris had, of course, won). Then the players all lined up to shake hands, and did the traditional exchange of jerseys with the opposing team. At which point the team that had just lost 10-0 did a victory lap of the stadium, and everyone, St. Etienne and Paris fans included, stood up and gave them a standing ovation. And just about everyone was talking about the good sportsmanship that had been displayed by the Paris team in playing so hard against their opponents.

So, what makes the actions of the Paris soccer team so respectful, and the actions of the Covenant basketball team so disrespectful? Seems to me it’s all about why it was done.

Robin Munn (2c5a2e) — 1/22/2009 @ 8:18 pm

Basketball,

Is a game, kids take lessons learned with them for the rest of their lives

I’m talking about the one’s who scored 100

EricPWJohnson (b4458f) — 1/22/2009 @ 8:27 pm

Dear EricPWJohnson:

I think that the lesson learned by the kids who scored the 100 were, again, best described by Conan the Barbarian as in #2.

Eric Blair Amidst Several Other Erics (3e2520) — 1/22/2009 @ 8:39 pm

I hate that USC-Wisc game…
I had SC and was giving 5-1/2 points!
Worst football game ever.

AD (897341) — 1/22/2009 @ 9:15 pm

I was an amateur sports official, pee wee through high school varsity. I may be a fool, but I strongly believe in the lessons of sport trumping the imperative to win at those levels. Striving to win is all. Winning of itself is not honorable.

In my time, I called basketball games where a team was making a travesty of the sport. They built humongous leads against much smaller and slower players. The “understanding” the area coaches had was that first teams would play as much of the first half as the coach wanted, and play as hard as they could. But, when a mercy rule would be appropriate (like a 40 point halftime lead) the leading team would put in the backups. This was not an uncommon occurence.

But, no. I end up with two Bob Knight wannabes in a couple of terrible matches. (yes, it was in Indiana). So, while these tools were overcoaching and occasionally stepping outside the coaches box, I warned them once to cease. Each jerk would not let up. So, the next chance I got to nail them for stepping outside the box, I did. Then, when they came on the court to protest, I hit ’em again. Two technicals = automatic ejection. 🙂

Since all ejections were subject to administrative review, it could have been the end of my wearing stripes. Guess what? The jerks were reprimanded and I got more games/contracts.

The best part for me was immediately after these games. Several boys on the really good teams came over to shake my hand and thank me for putting their coaches in their place.

Ed (39e6e8) — 1/22/2009 @ 10:36 pm

What type of shit runs up the score against disabled children? The school should immediately fire the “winning” coach.

Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 1/23/2009 @ 12:50 am

I live in Dallas, so this story has been big news the last few days. It was in the Dallas Morning News yesterday that the winning school is now looking for forfeit the win, because they are embarassed at how this win looks.

Alia (36a42f) — 1/23/2009 @ 8:32 am

We shouldn’t be surprised at this story. As a culture we have become schizophrenic: either we demonize and destroy our opponents, or we say that everyone is just as good as anyone else.

Like Tina Fey shouting “Suck it!” when she wins, or the line from the great movie, “The Incredibles”: “...if everybody’s special, nobody is.”

Way too bipolar. Sportsmanship (yeah, JD, I know: sexist!) is about balance and proportion.

The winning team in this post didn’t win anything of importance that day. They lost a great deal, in fact.

Eric Blair (3e2520) — 1/23/2009 @ 9:05 am

And Hamas is claiming victory, too. Taking their victory laps around the bombed out neighborhoods while rounding up a few Fatah and PA people along the way for ‘special interviews’ that include dangerous objects.

But seriously, the Dallas league should consider emulating the Brits pro soccer leagues and create a tier system whereby teams are sent up and down at the end of each season based on their ability to compete in the various tiers. Easy way to lessen the mismatch potential.

allan (30bfe7) — 1/23/2009 @ 11:19 am

I strongly believe in the lessons of sport trumping the imperative to win at those levels. Striving to win is all. Winning of itself is not honorable.

Another USC story. Back in the 1966, Notre Dame was #1 but had played for a tie with Michigan State, which was #2. Ara Parseghian, the coach, was worried that the tie would affect the ranking so he ran up the score on USC in the last game of the season. They won 51-0 over a weak USC team. John MacKay was angry about the running up of the score and vowed USC would never lose to ND again while he was there. The next nine years, they were 8 and 1. In 1972, Anthony Davis scored six touchdowns, including two kickoffs. Running up the score is insulting and can be a bad idea.

Mike K (ee3203) — 1/23/2009 @ 2:33 pm

Dr. Capt. Mike K.,
Your USC stories interested a colleague of mine, Zach Fox, a proud USC grad.

Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (d1ccd0) — 1/23/2009 @ 2:57 pm

It is not for the dominent team to stop itself from scoring, it is the other teams responsibility. They lost by 100. Tough toenails. Maybe the self-rightous loser coach should teach his kids how to play D in their own half [its not like young girls are going to drain 3pointers from halfcourt] and work as a team to get the ball out of their own end.

Conan the baseball player (60e2a1) — 1/23/2009 @ 7:09 pm

And it isn’t for you to stop defrauding geriatrics, it is up for them to stop stupidly giving you money, eh? Same difference.

Ed from PA (aed11a) — 1/23/2009 @ 7:21 pm

Ed from PA has it right. There are SOME games that reach a point in which you know you can’t lose and there is no other benefit to be gained by continuing to keep the game one-sided. In that, if you’re a good actor or actress, you just fake it. You give the other side a chance to improve parts of their game. Hey, I hear that some women do that in the most fun game.

Ira (28a423) — 1/25/2009 @ 10:57 am

1/22/2009

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