Patterico's Pontifications

1/9/2009

Palestinian Fakery: Should Big Media Investigate Whether It’s Happening?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:07 pm



Yes, it’s a rhetorical question.

Many bloggers claim to have caught Palestinians faking death and mistreatment. For example, look at the links collected here, or the story told here (not originating with the blogger, but with an Israeli newspaper).

I haven’t independently investigated these claims and can’t vouch for their authenticity. But these posts raise enough questions that Big Media should be looking into this angle, no?

And, at the very least, shouldn’t their reporting on atrocities against Palestinians be tinged with elements of caution — given the very real history of fabrications in similar situations?

UPDATE: Bob Owens has more here.

98 Responses to “Palestinian Fakery: Should Big Media Investigate Whether It’s Happening?”

  1. What?!? And jeopardize their government bailout by committing real reporting? You must be joking!

    tim maguire (72f509)

  2. Liberals don’t learn from their mistakes; they just keep repeating them in the name of equality.

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  3. Notice that today when they get caught repeating uncritically a faked story from Hamas, they just make it go down the “never-happened” hole. They don’t admit that the story was fake, and they don’t admit who generated the fake.

    This is why the palestinians even bother to create faked stories – because they know that they won’t be called on it no matter how crudely faked they are.

    SPQR (72771e)

  4. Metanarrative versus facts

    When the expected buying readership values the metanarrative more than the facts, why jeopardize the first with the second?

    jim2 (6482d8)

  5. Easy solution: the Israelis could allow reporters into Gaza and they wouldn’t have to accept footage from Arab TV stations.

    Really, though, this is what chafes you? Not the documented deaths of Palestinians by international aid organizations or UN drivers being killed by tank shells or the UN school being bombed and the UN telling us how many people died in their own building….

    No, it’s always forest for the trees with you guys. Was Baghdad a beautiful vacation spot everyday in 2006 or were people dying and being ethnically cleansed? You guys couldn’t focus on that, being all consumed with whether Jamil Hussein was real or not.

    Whether one Palestinian death was faked for cameras doesn’t hide the fact that people are dying and the rockets are STILL fired. Two weeks of bombing apartment buildings and killing one Hamas leader at the cost of his family and the rockets are STILL being fired.

    What’s the definition of insanity: the right wing’s unwavering support of Israel’s failed policy. One imagines at least the Saudis and Iranians get something for their support of Palestinian murders and terrorists. All we get are right wingers munching popcorn and cheering bombs we pay for with our subsidies, while not realizing Israel is still under siege and nothing they’re doing right now helps.

    timb (2add5b)

  6. Here’s an easy solution: the Israelis could allow reporters into Gaza and they wouldn’t have to accept footage from Arab TV stations.

    Really, though, this is what chafes you? Not the documented deaths of Palestinians by international aid organizations or UN drivers being killed by tank shells or the UN school being bombed and the UN telling us how many people died in their own building….

    No, it’s always forest for the trees with you guys. Was Baghdad a beautiful vacation spot everyday in 2006 or were people dying and being ethnically cleansed? You guys couldn’t focus on that, being all consumed with whether Jamil Hussein was real or not.

    Whether one Palestinian death was faked for cameras doesn’t hide the fact that people are dying and the rockets are STILL fired. Two weeks of bombing apartment buildings and killing one Hamas leader at the cost of his family and the rockets are STILL being fired.

    What’s the definition of insanity: the right wing’s unwavering support of Israel’s failed policy. One imagines at least the Saudis and Iranians get something for their support of Palestinian murders and terrorists. All we get are right wingers munching popcorn and cheering bombs we pay for with our subsidies, while not realizing Israel is still under siege and nothing they’re doing right now helps.

    Crixus (2add5b)

  7. Crixus, first of all, why should I be concerned about the involvement of UN or “aid” organizations in the casualties given the long history of the UN in Palestinian areas giving cover, concealment and even assistance to palestinian terrorists?

    The “documented” deaths are themselves often suspicious as the UN has been part of the effort in concealing how many are truly civilian and how many are Hamas thugs.

    Given that Hamas has been isolated from the Arab world ( look at little support they are getting from that quarter ) and given how fast Hizbullah rushed to deny firing katyusha’s over the border, Israel’s current campaign is not a failure at all.

    SPQR (72771e)

  8. Really, though, this is what chafes you? Not the documented deaths of Palestinians by international aid organizations or UN drivers being killed by tank shells or the UN school being bombed and the UN telling us how many people died in their own building….

    Amusingly, you leave out a few details…

    First, Israel calls the residents of houses it is targeting, and tells them to get out.

    Second, at least with respect to the UN School, the IDF fired on it because they were taking mortar fire from it.

    But hey, who cares, so long as you can make them darn dirty jews look bad, right?

    What do you suggest, hmm? That Israel should negotiate with Hamas? Is that what you think they should do?

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  9. #5 wrote:
    Whether one Palestinian death was faked for cameras doesn’t hide the fact that people are dying…

    Reports of fake deaths cheapens the meaning of those who do die.

    What’s the definition of insanity: the right wing’s unwavering support of Israel’s failed policy.

    Crixus, are you going to help the Palestinians push the Jews into the gas chambers? That’s Israel policy – prevent another holocaust. What is insane is giving aid and sanctuary to Hamas murders and expect them to change.

    …UN drivers being killed by tank shells or the UN school being bombed and the UN telling us how many people died in their own building.

    The UN is aiding and abetting Hamas’s warfare on Israel. It is no secret when a mortar or rocket is fired from a “UN” building. The sound is deafening. The UN “staff” knew they were assisting Hamas’ mass murder attempts by allowing their facilities to used for weapons storage and firing points.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  10. First they have to establish who Trig’s mom is. Then they need to find out where Obama was born. After that they need to find out what Obama was doing for most of his life (though Fitzgerald might fill in some blanks). Then they might have time between outbreaks of BDS.

    snaggletoothie (532a38)

  11. Should? Yes. Will? Never.

    I still remember a picture the LAT ran on the front page when Isreal went into Jenin in ’01. There was a picture of two Palestinian children, one boy and one girl, about 2-3 years old, dressed in bright western style clothing (purple, I seem to recall). They were holding hands and looking back at a giant Isreali tank bearing down on them. God, the whole picture looked like a 3rd rate propoganda film and screamed “staged!” but the LAT incredulously ran it anyway, and I never heard one word of criticism over the photo either. So, no they won’t question it because the media never questions anything that fits into their narrative.

    Sean P (e57269)

  12. Comment by Crixus — 1/9/2009 @ 2:06 pm
    How would you like rockets to be fired into your neighbourhood for weeks without your government doing something about it? Have you ever had to endure the trauma of having to be bombarded with rockets? Even if you did, wouldn’t want your government to do something to stop it? How did you feel when you realised we were attacked on Sept.11th? Was there rage? Did you want justice? Did you expect the American government to respond? and how would you have felt if they didn’t?

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  13. …at least the Saudis and Iranians get something for their support of Palestinian murders and terrorists. All we get are right wingers munching popcorn and cheering bombs we pay for with our subsidies, while not realizing Israel is still under siege and nothing they’re doing right now helps.

    Well, yes the Iranians and Saudis are reaping the benefit of seeing more Jews killed. And this is to be admirable or something we strive toward? A benefit, no matter what, makes it a worthwhile endeavor? Unbelievable.

    What are we getting from it? We at least have the knowledge that we are supporting a country who is fighting an enemy so diabolical and lacking any moral compunction that they are more than willing to hide behind their women and children and sacrifice them to a slaughter because of their own cowardice. This is far from over and while Israel is still under siege one always holds out hope that righteousness will prevail and freedom can be had.

    You don’t see the difference?

    Dana (137151)

  14. And, at the very least, shouldn’t their reporting on atrocities against Palestinians be tinged with elements of caution — given the very real history of fabrications in similar situations?

    No, in their blinkered worldview, that would be racist!

    Plus, the pics are cool.

    And this is why they will all end up like the Seattle PI. Sorry for the folks who lost their jobs, but this is creative destruction.

    Patricia (89cb84)

  15. Comment by Dana — 1/9/2009 @ 2:55 pm

    What are we getting from it? We at least have the knowledge that we are supporting a country who is fighting an enemy so diabolical and lacking any moral compunction that they are more than willing to hide behind their women and children and sacrifice them to a slaughter because of their own cowardice. This is far from over and while Israel is still under siege one always holds out hope that righteousness will prevail and freedom can be had.
    Beautiful point! Precise! To the point. (Applauding). Bravo Dana. Excellent. (pssst, hey, which Dana are you?)

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  16. CNN: The Most BUSTED name in news.

    Paul Albers (06d9a0)

  17. When it comes to fauxtography and staged pics, the deciders have already decided there is no there there. And we will like it!

    RickZ (472435)

  18. Who you gonna believe- such luminaries as Noam Chompsky, Dick Wad Crixius and Patrick Buchanan, who notes that Gaza is one big concentration camp overseered by Joooos or your own lyin’ eyes.

    LGF is usually on top of this camel dung. I’ve read reports by honest Pali reporters that are opposite of what the shitehead Hamas mutants fabricate.

    I’ve given up trying to argue with asshats like the many transplanted Irish libtards here in S. Fla. who insist that the durty Jews are evil incarnate. And anything Muslims do is ok since it is their culture. And afterall, Arafish DID win a Nobel Peace Prize. Clueless mofo’s of the world unite and sing Kumbaya/Arbeit macht frei.

    aoibhneas (0c6cfc)

  19. Crixus – Do you have any suggestions as to what should happen to ensure peace here. Usually people of your ilk don’t unless it involves more concessions from the Israelis, which worked out so well for the the last time.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  20. Comment by aoibhneas — 1/9/2009 @ 3:40 pm
    MadMaxx3? :)

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  21. unless it involves more concessions from the Israelis, which worked out so well for the the last time.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 1/9/2009 @ 3:43 pm
    It sure did. It’s called “feeding the beast”.

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  22. love2008,

    Emperor7 has a nice ring to it but what made you choose it? I don’t see a connection between love and empire.

    DRJ (345e40)

  23. Crixus? YOu there? We’ve asked some questions, and would love to have you answer them…

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  24. Those of us on Facebook have a nifty utility called QassamCount to provide context to why Israel is fighting Hamas.

    Bradley J. Fikes (a20633)

  25. For Israel to be safe, she must relinquish the Sudetenland.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  26. John Hitchcock – When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor didn’t we fight back?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  27. I won’t correct your statement, daleyrocks, since the overall message is so powerful. (Sorry, had to paraphrase.)

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  28. John Hitchcock – It was almost like 1915 when we sank the Lusitania by mistake and the British demanded compensation by having us enter WWI.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  29. That was all over Television when that happened, wasn’t it?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  30. John – Dan Rather and I watched it together. Courage!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  31. CNN has responded to the video. It’s what one would expect, no direct response to specifically mentioned contradictions in the video, and very subjective reasons given to prove authenticity,

    There’s no truth to accusations by bloggers that a Palestinian camera crew staged a video showing the death of the videographer’s brother after an Israeli rocket attack, said the team’s employer.

    “It’s absolute nonsense,” Paul Martin, co-owner of World News and Features, said of accusations leveled by bloggers at videographer Ashraf Mashharawi.

    “He’s a man of enormous integrity and would never get involved with any sort of manipulation of images, let alone when the person dying is his own brother,” Martin said. “I know the whole family. I know them very well. … [Mashharawi] is upset and angry that anyone would think of him having done anything like this. … This is ridiculous. He’s independent.”

    Dana (137151)

  32. Condoleezza Rice advised Bush that the US should vote yes on the UN security council resolution calling for a cease-fire and immediate Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. The US abstained on the vote, instead. Let’s give Condi a one-way ticket to Gaza and a burqua.

    Official Internet Data Office (f79a35)

  33. Timmah!/Crixus, if you’re going to sockpuppet, it helps to keep the same post confined to just one name.

    Pablo (99243e)

  34. I still remember a picture the LAT ran on the front page when Isreal went into Jenin in ‘01. There was a picture of two Palestinian children, one boy and one girl, about 2-3 years old, dressed in bright western style clothing (purple, I seem to recall). They were holding hands and looking back at a giant Isreali tank bearing down on them. God, the whole picture looked like a 3rd rate propoganda film and screamed “staged!” but the LAT incredulously ran it anyway, and I never heard one word of criticism over the photo either. So, no they won’t question it because the media never questions anything that fits into their narrative.

    I remember the shitstorm over Mohammed al-Dura’s death. What I don’t remember is anything in the way of MSM follow up reporting when it became clear that he couldn’t have been killed by the IDF, and must have been killed by Palestinians, apparently because it looked good on tape. But hey, what’s the life of one little boy when there’s a propaganda mill to feed?

    Pablo (99243e)

  35. while not realizing Israel is still under siege and nothing they’re doing right now helps.
    Comment by timb — 1/9/2009 @ 2:04 pm & your sockpuppet Comment by Crixus — 1/9/2009 @ 2:06 pm

    So what do you propose Israel should do, just sit back and let Hamas continue to rain bombs upon their non-combatant civilians and then everything will be alright?

    ML (14488c)

  36. Heh, “Israel is still under siege” is very important and is a victory in itself. And how can I say that? Because “Israel is still.” That’s how I can say that.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  37. I know that there is no sense in arguing with sockpuppeting trolls, but this made me irritated:

    “…Here’s an easy solution: the Israelis could allow reporters into Gaza and they wouldn’t have to accept footage from Arab TV stations….”

    Here is some interesting reading. A place to start, if freedom of the press in Gaza is of some importance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Crackdown_on_dissent_and_on_the_Press

    Hmmm. Doesn’t fit Teh Narrative, though.

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  38. There’s a doctor in the house! What’s his take on the video allegedly depicting CPR, linked in #36?

    Bradley J. Fikes (0ea407)

  39. I’m not the doctor in the house to whom you refer, obviously, but as a formerly CPR-certified first-responder, I can definitely say those chest compressions were wholly inadequate and the lack of oxygen intake of the “victim” was total.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  40. The compressions did look rather theatrical.

    Bradley J. Fikes (0ea407)

  41. The chest compressions were appropriate for an infant, whose ribs would be more rubber-like and compact, not a “tween.”

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  42. ML – I missed timmah outing himself up there.

    What a hoot!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  43. I just don’t get it, daley? Why bother? I mean, why not just discuss things with people; disagree and so forth?

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  44. Hey, daley. You don’t suppose that the sockpuppets up above use other names, too, do you?

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  45. I was wondering if TomO was TimB/Crixus, but being newer here, I wasn’t sure.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  46. Daleyrocks

    That is as good as if not better than “I work is done here”.

    ML (14488c)

  47. ML – I think I’ve seen Crixus appear on a site where timmah was banned so this was extra special.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  48. timmah scribbled (with the ass-end of a broken crayon): “Easy solution: the Israelis could allow reporters into Gaza and they wouldn’t have to accept footage from Arab TV stations.”
    — That’s right; it’s the Israelis’ fault that the Palestinians are lying.

    “Really, though, this is what chafes you? Not the documented deaths of Palestinians by international aid organizations or UN drivers being killed by tank shells or the UN school being bombed and the UN telling us how many people died in their own building….”
    — No. The documented deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians does bother us. Does the fact that Hams continuously puts them in harm’s way, by hiding among them and launching rockets from their property, bother you? Does the fact that the UN is doing nothing to stop those rocket launches bother you? Do those rocket attacks themselves bother you?

    “No, it’s always forest for the trees with you guys. Was Baghdad a beautiful vacation spot everyday in 2006 or were people dying and being ethnically cleansed?”
    — The latter, of course. And who EVER said anything different?

    “Whether one Palestinian death was faked for cameras doesn’t hide the fact that people are dying and the rockets are STILL fired.”
    — Translation: it doesn’t matter that a Palestinian death was faked. Question: does ANYTHING matter?

    “Two weeks of bombing apartment buildings and killing one Hamas leader at the cost of his family and the rockets are STILL being fired.”
    — Yeah. You would’ve thought that Hamas could make the connection and stop firing those rockets, huh?

    “What’s the definition of insanity: the right wing’s unwavering support of Israel’s failed policy.”
    — I was going to say ‘your attempt to define insanity’, but you stick to your guns there.

    “One imagines at least the Saudis and Iranians get something for their support of Palestinian murders and terrorists.”
    — Yep. An appointment in Hell, like the one you have for implying that the Saudi government supports Palestinian terrorists.

    “All we get are right wingers munching popcorn and cheering bombs we pay for with our subsidies, while not realizing Israel is still under siege and nothing they’re doing right now helps.”
    — WE don’t realize that Israel is under siege? We’re the ONLY ones that realize this!

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  49. love2008,

    Emperor7 has a nice ring to it but what made you choose it? I don’t see a connection between love and empire.

    Comment by DRJ — 1/9/2009 @ 4:24 pm
    You are right DRJ, there is no connection. But after a time of prayer and fasting, I saw that we have entered into the season of empires again. It will be the mother of all battles this year and America will rise again to be an empire. Empires don’t just rule their countries, they rule the world. We will rule, no lead the world again. Last year love won and now we are back on track (hence, Love2008) but this year, we will rule the world-again. Am I making any sense? :)
    It’s kinda prophetic.

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  50. Am I making any sense?

    Why start now?

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  51. I read an opinion via Instapundit that Israel may not be entirely displeased with being shown as a bad-ass in the media. Deterrence. Arabs in the neighborhood wetting their bournooses at the thought of the Israeli military again, since the two debacles in Lebanon.

    nk (cc566c)

  52. Arabs in the neighborhood wetting their bournooses at the thought of the Israeli military again, since the two debacles in Lebanon.

    Because they need reminding after the shellacking they got in ’67?

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  53. Yes. It’s two generations later and both sides are different. The Israelis were humiliated twice in Lebanon, first with the occupation and retreat and recently with the inconclusive skirmish with Hezbollah. The Israelis are perceived, and may well be, weaker while the Arabs have in fact grown stronger.

    nk (cc566c)

  54. Emperor7 has a nice ring to it but what made you choose it?

    “Emperor 7″ is a brand of Japanese condom.

    Official Internet Data Office (f79a35)

  55. Comment by Official Internet Data Office — 1/10/2009 @ 7:30 am
    So we are safe with it, don’t you think?

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  56. You and Dieter should have no problems.

    Official Internet Data Office (f79a35)

  57. Comment by Official Internet Data Office — 1/10/2009 @ 7:43 am
    Thought you were seeing him/her. Saw how you like to touch his monkeys. Eeww!

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  58. Timmah!/Crixus, if you’re going to sockpuppet, it helps to keep the same post confined to just one name.

    Yeah, isn’t that odd?

    Anyway, it’s rather amusing to hear a lefty taking the “is this what pisses you off?!” tack. For decades, when asked why they protest western democracies while ignoring much, much worse actions by other nations, they’ve responded with what amounts to “because we can’t hold those people responsible!”

    Well, bucky, we don’t think we can stop Hamas, and until they stop I don’t see a reason to stop the IDF, so we’re looking at something we can influence — western media’s complicity in the propaganda war.

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  59. Pablo, as I have mentioned to Patterico before, when I comment here from school, some filter eats my comment. When I use another name with no change to IP, it goes right through. So, when I first commented, my comment did not appear. So, I waited a minute or two and re-submitted. I would LOVE to comment here, like I do everywhere I post, under my own name (you know, brave guy, like your is Pablo). ML is a witness. I regularly embarrass him on Darleen’s site under my name, which is the same way I comment at StoptheAclu, “the other McCain,” RTO’s place, or Serr8d’s place.

    I am who I am, Pablo, i.e. your intellectual and social better, who doesn’t rely on bullies to protect me.

    As for your questions, I believe Jimmy mentioned the other day how he tried to stop the terrorist rockets attacks, but, since this didn’t have as many deaths of Palestinians you guys like, you probably don’t like it. Whatever you tools think, the rockets haven’t stopped. No matter what you think of the UN, they are the only ones there (besides the IDF and Hamas). If Israel wanted the “truth” to get out, they could just allow reporters in.

    Oh, and Pablo, you’re a dick

    timb (f1a6d7)

  60. Ben-Zion Dinur (1954)
    “In our country there is room only for the Jews. We shall say to the Arabs: Get out! If they don’t agree, if they resist, we shall drive them out by force”

    David Ben Gurion
    “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”

    sleepy (09c352)

  61. None of which explains why Hamas, in control of Gaza, makes war on Israel today 60 years later.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  62. Sleepy, your anti-semitism is clearly evidenced by each of your posts.

    “There is not a place in this bank that did not have heavily armed robbers.” Thus, the bank should be owned by heavily armed robbers.

    “There is not a place in Columbine that did not have heavily armed killers.” Thus, Columbine should be owned by heavily armed killers.

    Same thing.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  63. Crixus, or whatever your name is, your blatant and over-the-top misuse of rhetoric and arragance-by-fallacy is impressive in its total inability to commute intelligence to your commentary.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  64. groan arragance arrogance

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  65. yeah, I did a strike and it showed on preview but not on site

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  66. # 61. when I comment here from school.

    I highly doubt the preschool you attend has computers.

    ML is a witness. I regularly embarrass him on Darleen’s site under my name.

    Of course this troll thinks he can embarrass me with strawmen and bating and just by being a standard lefty uneducated illogic troll that makes nothing but personal attacks, being it is so educated an all.

    He is a legend in his own mind!

    And everyone here is a witness to that fact, timb or Crixus or Timmah or whatever you choose to be today.

    ML (14488c)

  67. timb is a legend in his fingerpainting social group.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  68. “ML is a witness. I regularly embarrass him on Darleen’s site under my name.”

    I went over there to check out a bunch of the comment threads because I can’t recall timmah ever embarrassing anyone.

    timmah is as nucking futs as Levi. He is the absolute “hammer” on that site in his mind when he’s playing yankee my wankee.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  69. I would venture to guess this timb, Crixus or Timmah is a Troofer and that says it all.

    ML (14488c)

  70. Gee, daley, you’re as unimpressed as you are unimpressive.

    As for SPQR, dude, it’s an advanced class and we use oils as fingerpaints. Nonetheless, I am ranked number two in the neo-Realism category.*

    * This concludes my very limited knowledge of art terms.

    timb (f1a6d7)

  71. Turn those esses into the word “strike”, John.

    For example: timmah is chickenshit afraid to respond to my point-by-point dissection (in #50) of his previous gurglings.

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  72. Here’s the article I mentioned above. Oh man, what if the Jews have indeed gone crazy? We’re all doomed. They control everything. They’ll cut off the oxygen supply to every Muslim country to start with, and then they’ll take away all the rest of us’s bacon. Our gold, too.

    nk (2a3e35)

  73. Bradley, I finally got a look at the video but I don’t know if it was the full clip. The chest compressions were appropriate for a 5 year old and there was no ventilation of the kid that I saw. It doesn’t look legit. Two possibilities: he was already dead, or, like al Dura, he was alive and the whole thing is faked. The brother has been exposed as a Hamas webmaster. Why should anyone believe him ?

    The chest compressions were over 100/minute and that would not provide effective circulation for a 12 year old. It would be appropriate for an infant.

    Someone on one of these threads mentioned about Palestinian bullets killing al Dura. There is some evidence that he was never killed by anybody. There was a short piece of video at the end that showed him lifting his arm after he was supposed to be dead. Maybe that’s why “there was no autopsy.”

    Mike K (ee3203)

  74. But number one in pseudo-realism here in the political forum world.

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  75. Here is a little sample of how timb embarrassed me at Darleenclick.

    “I know more about your own religion then you do”.
    “The God of the Qur’an and Bible are the same”.
    “God prefers people (like his Son) who are not so sure about their salvation”.
    “I learned a lot about God by reading the Qur’an, maybe you should too”.
    “its ok that Mohammed was a pedophile because he was just like all good Christians”.

    I am so embarrassed, I denounce myself.

    ML (14488c)

  76. Comment by timb — 1/10/2009 @ 12:02 pm

    I screwed up – I should have said I’ve never seen timmah embarrass anyone in an argument except himself.

    Hey, but internationally acclaimed Prof. Ric Caric loves him, so he’s got that going for him, which is nice.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  77. I wonder though, Scott #54,

    Did the Israelis, by eliminating the handful of Arabs who had the guts to fight them man to man from 1923 to 1973, create, through a devolutionary Darwinism, the crawly little worms who now hide behind their own babies?

    nk (2a3e35)

  78. Long ago, on another website, I got very angry with someone who was trying to get me angry. So I tried to create an “alter ego” to say the things of which I was not particularly proud.

    I got called on it. I apologized for it.

    And I quit doing it.

    I hope that timb does the same.

    Life is so much easier that way.

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  79. EB…Some people refuse to do the right, or easy, thing.
    Don’t hold your breath.

    AD (4de33d)

  80. Right now there is a pro-Palestinian rally taking place . . . in San Francisco.

    Shocka!!!

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  81. Icy, have you heard about about the very tolerant protests that take place at San Francisco State?

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  82. “I would LOVE to comment here, like I do everywhere I post, under my own name”

    BOOM!!! Down goes timmah!!

    timmah/Crixus at Protein Wisdom from late 2008 where he is banned:

    “Comment by Crixus on 12/24 @ 8:55 am #

    You keep trying, Pablo. You’ll get him “impeached” for an offense he’s already been cleared for! Based on a handshake, no less! Go Pablo, perform your legal-ese coup. You can do it. Just remember to pay no attention to the prosecutor who already cleared him.

    Seriously, professionally obfuscating the facts like that? You must be one helluva “law-talking guy” (to quote Lionel Hutz).”

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  83. The best protest ever at SFS was where Hayakawa climbed up on the platform and pulled the plug on the amplifier.

    College Presidents just didn’t do such things.
    Guess that’s why Ronnie made him a U.S.Senator.

    AD (4de33d)

  84. Eric Blair

    I would hope that would happen, but just from my limited experience with this poster I highly doubt that would ever happen.

    Stuff like that requires some sort of morals not the constant making of strawman person attacks and every other fallacy known to man and to which the poster in question will whine and cry and scream how unfair it is when those tactics are applied to them.

    I hope this poster someday grows up and exhibits some redeeming qualities, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    ML (14488c)

  85. Boom!!! Down goes timmah again!!

    Comment by Darleen on 12/24 @ 9:41 am #

    “Crixus’s IP 85.195.123.24 and has posted as Ron Burgundy and Greg Craig

    and it complains about “sock puppets”.

    That’s the ticket.”

    Truth to Powah timmah!!!!!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  86. ML, I think that most of the trollish-ness is just folks acting out. Nowadays, people don’t fight much physically. So it is easier (and safer) to do so electronically.

    Most of the trolls (not people who believe differently than I do) don’t seem to really care about discussion or fact…just invective. And the “…in school…” comment kind of gave it away.

    But one could hope.

    Yeah, AD, SI Hayakawa had the best line. Some MSM was chiding him for sleeping during a Senate hearing. He replied, “It’s boring.”

    Daley, you reveal the genuine central issue here: the internet is truly NOT anonymous. And, of course, the “P” word becomes relevant yet again.

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  87. Actually, daley, that’s not me. You can ask Patterico about the IP address I was finally able to get through on. I heard the other day when I was listening to the podcast of Rome (Crixus was Spartacus’s partner).

    Nonetheless, much like you believe Al Franken stole an election, Israel’s bombing will stop Hamas’s rocket attacks, etc, you believe because you want to.

    timb (8f04c0)

  88. To all:

    I posted under my name and nothing appeared. My comments did not appear for weeks and I have the emailS to Patterico to prove it. I post under the pseudonym so whatever filter was deleting my comments would let it through. I was trying contribute my opinion; not avoid using my name. I’m not too concerned with you guys. We may disagree, but you all seem interested in the same thing I am: a well functioning society and, in this case for morons to stop bombing children and other morons to stop terrorizing Sderot. Neither side is right.

    If I offended anyone, I’m sorry. As I have demonstrated here, when I can use my name without comments disappearing, I do.

    BTW, I don’t apologize to Pablo, who is a dick.

    timb (8f04c0)

  89. Timb, add my name to the list of those to whom you will not apologize. Thank me for my time.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  90. Neither side is right.

    Bullshit. The Israelis are in the right, legally and morally.

    I have no idea why you insist on being “even-handed”, and honestly don’t care. You condemn attempts to defend against barbarity in the same breath you claim to condemn barbarity — in my book, that makes you a barbarian.

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  91. What I find hard to take is that a credible news source like cnn could connive with terrorists to fake a news item, just for what purpose, really? What do they stand to gain from the sensationalism it would generate? On the other hand, what do I know.

    love2008 who will now be known as Emperor7 (1b037c)

  92. Duly noted, Johnny. Good to know another fair-minded con has joined the ranks of the Manicheans here at Patterico.

    Rob, maybe in gnome world people are either all right or all wrong. I’ll just be glad you don’t run anything except a business, since you have the worldview of a four year old. Killing civilians is just the price good people have to pay to beat bad people, eh?

    Seems to me, if you’re a member of Hamas, you’d think the same thing.

    Lastly, Rob, you could always move to an Israeli settlement. That way, you could be on the shining light of good side and not have to deal with gray.

    timb (8f04c0)

  93. Timb is full of it, although in his defense he seems to not remember anything he said previously.

    I recall a comment you made that “Christians” sit in a room in Colorado and bomb Moslems with unmanned aircraft, while Moslems have no choice but to strap bombs on themselves and murder only non-combatants.

    It clear who’s side you are on (remember you live with Moslems) and who you shill for, so why pretend otherwise?

    ML (14488c)

  94. timb, sane people know that a terrorist organization that wishes to destroy all parts of civilization younger than the seventh century is wrong. Nuts like you can’t figure that out, and we ridicule you therefore.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  95. Ummm…

    “…the ranks of the Manicheans here at Patterico….”

    Please cue Inigo Montoya.

    Or at least be more familiar with the definition of the term as used in the modern world, which most definitely does not apply to this discussion.

    Cultural relativists, on the other hand, do.

    Eric Blair (3e2520)

  96. It’s so amusing to be lectured about morality by someone who has never heard of the concept of intent. For myself, I consider it an unfortunate part of the real world that, sometimes, doing the right thing can have bad consequences.

    I admit I’ll never be the paragon of moral purity that timmah represents, but I’m content with that.

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)


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