Patterico's Pontifications

12/27/2008

Drinking the Kool-Aid and Other Quotes

Filed under: Obama,Politics — DRJ @ 7:39 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

“Parties become much more pragmatic when they’ve won,”
says Joe Trippi, head of media firm Trippi Multimedia, manager of Howard Dean’s 2004 presidential campaign, and adviser to John Edwards in 2008, explaining why organizations like MoveOn.org may be willing to make ideological sacrifices to align their goals with Obama’s:

“At least in the initial stages, they’re going to try to work together (with Obama) to see what parts of their agenda they can get through,” [Trippi] says. And they recognize, he adds, that they will get more of their agenda passed if they don’t start trouble when they don’t need to.

If anything can be read into MoveOn’s silence on Rick Warren — the anti-gay-marriage pastor Obama has chosen to deliver his inaugural invocation — Trippi is correct.”

For now, then, MoveOn’s goal is to “make sure Congress is squeezed between a progressive president and a progressive constituency” or, as Joe Trippi puts it, members of Congress who stand in the way of Obama’s program:

“… are going to find themselves between Barack and a hard place.”

Meanwhile, MoveOn.org Executive Director Eli Pariser puts his faith in the people:

“For his part, Pariser says he will do what his members want, no matter which way it takes the organization or what the implications are for its future. “I believe the fact that we hear something from all over the place at the same time means it probably is what we should do with the country,” he says. “I maybe drank the Kool Aid in civics class a little too much, but I think if you put your faith in that, you really don’t go wrong. People gravitate very quickly to the big things that are at the core of their problems.”

“It also makes our jobs easier,” he adds, “because we just do what we’re told.”

MoveOn.org’s leaders may have overestimated how in touch they are with the American people if the General BetrayUs ad is any indication.

— DRJ

65 Responses to “Drinking the Kool-Aid and Other Quotes”

  1. They don’t care about what the American People think. They only care what their contributors think.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  2. “They only care what their contributors Soros and his friends think”

    Thought that needed a bit of tightening, SDB.

    Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy) (d6787b)

  3. MoveOn and Kos are the political center, dontcha’ know ?

    JD (0232da)

  4. “make sure Congress is squeezed between a progressive president and a progressive constituency”

    What’s with all this “progressive” nonsense? Liberals should at least be honest and up-front about the philosophy they’re espousing and promoting.

    This person from salon.com is willing to be exactly that, and although there apparently was sheepishness about one’s left-leaning sentiments as long as almost 50 years ago (based on the comments of JFK in 1960)–even before the foolishness of the left had been fully illustrated with things like the “war on poverty” and the ensuing “no justice, no peace!” devastation of major cities throughout America–if a person is going to be devoid of common sense, then he or should be proud of that!

    If the conservative era is over, can liberals come out of their defensive crouch and call themselves liberals again, instead of progressives?

    In the last two decades, Democratic politicians, including Barack Obama, have abandoned the term “liberal” for “progressive.” The theory was that Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush — and Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Pat Buchanan — had succeeded in equating “liberal” in the public mind with weakness on defense, softness on crime, and “redistribution” of Joe the Plumber’s hard-earned money to the collective bogey evoked by a former Texas rock band’s clever name: Teenage Immigrant Welfare Mothers on Dope.

    I’ve always been uncomfortable with this rather soulless and manipulative exercise in rebranding, for a number of reasons.

    …The center-left is going to be trashed by the right, whether the right adopts one term or another. If conservatives continue to call the new progressives “liberals,” then the right wins, by implying, correctly, that progressives are liberals who are ashamed to admit what they really are. If, on the other hand, “liberal” becomes as extinct as “Whig” and conservatives agree to use the term “progressive,” then what has the center-left gained? Nothing.

    Mark (411533)

  5. Such a red herring post. Desperately Seeking Scapegoats. Conservativism has been rejected by the people of the United States. Get over it. Look to your right, not your left, before walking the party line as to why the cowboys were given the boot.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  6. Then start your own damn blog, DSCSA.

    JD (0232da)

  7. DCSCA,

    Now that liberals are in a position to lead, it seems they are struggling more with melding ideology and the need for pragmatism. I think that’s interesting, don’t you?

    DRJ (30954e)

  8. They will get a chance to see how well they are aligned with the public in 2010. I think Obama may be smart enough to see that already but a lot of his followers may not be.

    Not exactly off-topic but I just got back from seeing “Slumdog millionaire.” What a great movie! I hope Obama has seen it.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  9. “Conservativism has been rejected by the people of the United States.”

    DCSCA – I must have missed the memo. What was it replaced by? Can you describe it’s core principles for me if it has any?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  10. Conservativism has been rejected by the people of the United States. Get over it.

    Why would these conservatives here need to get over it? Never saw any progressive/liberal get over losing to Bush or Reagan. You guys have the next 4 or 8 years, and will very likely wear out your welcome, too. Pull a Carter, and the ‘people’ will toss you out in 4, for sure.

    allan (329df8)

  11. DCSCA, that’s pretty hilarious. Did you pay no attention at all to the 2006 and 2008 elections?

    In 2006, Democrats took control of Congress not by running liberal Democrats but by running centrist to even right wing Democrats. In 2008, Obama was running ads in my state aimed at assuring gun owners he believed in the Second Amendment, and by running back toward the right as fast as he could. He beat a Republican candidate who failed to turn out the conservative core of his own party.

    All you’ve done is once again confirm that you really have no clue about American politics at all.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  12. Now that liberals are in a position to lead, it seems they are struggling more with melding ideology and the need for pragmatism.

    “Struggling,” in what sense?

    Freedom’s Watch, the conservative political advocacy group bankrolled mainly by casino magnate Sheldon Adelson that poured $30 million into this year’s political races, is shutting down.

    steve (89fa52)

  13. Oh, look! The latest in a long line of ad hominem attack trolls is back.

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  14. MoveOn is the Democratic excuse machine. Of course they’ll do whatever the Hell Obama tells them to.

    Ken Hahn (979ca3)

  15. We have already had Liberal Control of House and Senate for 2 years. Reid and Pelosi have not impressed America. Record defecits. Record Debt etc.

    Dennis D (ae900a)

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  18. #7– DRJ- The ‘struggle’ is a red herring. Obama’s team is facing a similar catastrophe to FDR. Pragmatic solutions are essential. And time is short given the speed of economic and political change today versus the 1930s. The luxury of wasting time- DeLays, as it were– over absurd diversions like Terry Schiavo rather than, say, enforcing SEC regulations and the like, is past.

    Obama will need to be another FDR… or end up being another David Dinkins. But the 30 year trail of wreckage brought on by conservativism has reached its end. In its current incarnation, it has finally been rejected by a majority of Americans who have seen it for what it truly is. It is a dead ideology.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  19. #15- suggest you research ‘The Politico’ and discover its origins, funding and such.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  20. #6– My. Struck a nerve, eh? Blame yourselves for your loss. Not the winners.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  21. DCSCA thinks that Obama will need to be “another FDR” … I guess he thinks that the Democrats ought to extend this recession into a worse depression – much as FDR extended the length of the Great Depression by years through misguided policies.

    DCSCA appears to be as clueless about economics as I thought.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  22. #11- SPQR- you’re whistling past the graveyard. Conservativism as you’ve know it since Goldwater-Reagan and into 2008… is dead. Accept it. Frankly, I hope they keep running Gingrich-Gramm-DeLayesque candidates for the next 25 years. Will be fun watching them get kicked through the uprights at Giants Stadium.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  23. DCSCA, your demonstration that you’ve paid absolutely no attention to actual events puts paid to the idea that you’ve any insight at all.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  24. SPQR- Denial is in Egypt. And, it seems, your mind. Sad. Accceptance will come by January 20th.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  25. Denial may be in Egypt but ignorance is in DCSCA. You don’t even bother to contradict any substance.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  26. SPQR- Conservativism is dead. Accept it.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  27. DCSCA….
    Just another troll to be ignored, and laughed at.

    Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy) (d8d174)

  28. Well, in 1929, Herbert Hoover tried to take the GOP in a new direction, and except for the anomaly of Ike’s War-Heroism (and a promise to “go to Korea”), and Nixon’s promise to end the VietNam War, the GOP was left in the wilderness until the advent of Reagan and a return to the small-government principles of Silent Cal.

    If Obama attempts to recreate the New Deal, or the Great Society, he might be risking more than he can ever coup as it is a greatly changed world that won’t be as patient as before.

    Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy) (d8d174)

  29. DCSCA,

    It’s hard to count all the times liberals have claimed something is “dead” in America: Christianity, democracy, even freedom, but as we all know these values aren’t dead.

    Maybe Obama’s election is the watershed event you claim — a transformation to a permanently liberal American society — or maybe it’s just another baby step in the political history of America. I submit it’s the latter and even Obama’s sympathetic biographer would agree:

    Conservatives and liberals have learned different lessons from losing. In 1964, when Barry Goldwater was trounced by Johnson, it actually launched today’s conservative movement that culminated in the election of Reagan In 1972, when McGovern was trounced by Nixon, the progressive movement was dead. Democrats always avoided a progressive agenda. After the miserable failures of Gore and Kerry, progressives have argued that Democrats need to follow the conservative approach post-Goldwater and win by standing for something. Obama is trying to bridge these two approaches, to have integrity and progressive values, while simultaneously presenting a more centrist face that appeals across political boundaries.

    Source: Barack Obama: This Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.125 Oct 30, 2007, reproduced at OnTheIssues.org

    DRJ (30954e)

  30. Obama’s team is facing a similar catastrophe to FDR.

    Please make the necessary parallels to this theory – let’s see links for the commensurate income levels, job figures, world trade barriers and comparative GNP figures during the preceding year before FDR and Obama took office.

    Right now – get on it.

    Dmac (eb0dd0)

  31. Conservatism is dead. Accept it.

    Yet Palin’s future with the party is rock solid. Media sniping just confirms her growing influence and what liberals fear: Conservatism is in transition and in need of its base next time around.

    Do you ever acknowledge Acorn votes in Obama’s win ? How about the global credit card fraud, fake names, no security codes, overseas donations. I’ve read your posts but you never express anger or impatience over the fact that cheating was the most powerful tool used to help elect a black man. It never seems to make it into your final thesis.

    No matter. Add up the unprecedented campaign money and the MSM’s bizarre bias and you know it’s true: the first affirmative action no-experience president. Sadly, the grass roots rhetoric which attracted you then is now a shadow of his current ‘meme.’ Always run left, govern right.

    DCSCA, maybe it’s liberalism that’s dead. Admit that the candidate you supported is not the same candidate from his Emil Jones days. Or concede that this country has problems in need of a mature, measured conservative approach. A grown-up approach. Barry will disappoint you if he better performs his duties and reigns in his wild ways. Although, should he revert to his socialist fixation… we’ll all suffer.

    Sorry. You’re too smug about liberal views which are simply opinion, not fact.

    Vermont Neighbor (ceab4f)

  32. #29- It’s hard to count all the times liberals have claimed something is “dead” in America: Christianity, democracy, even freedom, but as we all know these values aren’t dead.
    My reference was to conservativism which is hardly a ‘value;’ more aptly described as a thoroughly discredited ideology in its current incarnation. And no one, certainly this writer, would describe Obama’s election as a transformation to a permanently liberal American society. Another red herring.

    However, Americans have always been a progressive people. The very history of the United States is proof. Only conservativism, in various guises, has inhibited, stalled or misdirected that progress, be it in the U.S. or in other lands.

    The splintered, simplistic and myopic conservativism known today to those raised in the wreckage of the post-Reagan era, is dead.

    Obama recognizes the wreckage he has to work with and build on. He will be center left, which will be progressively good for all— even the extreme right, which will not reject any bounty reaped from it. He’s a pragmatist and that, as with FDR, is what fuels hope. He will either be another FDR or another David Dinkins. The times will demand it. And conservatives of the current ilk are certain to make every effort to make Obama another Dinkins.

    Conservatives lead and failed miserably. Now all that’s left is to follow… or get out of the way. the Gingrich-Delay style is a dead schtick.

    Conservatives lost because the country turned away from their failed ideology. It has betrayed Americans twice now in 20 years. It is a dead and discredited ideology.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  33. #30– It never ceases to amaze how reactionary conservatives bark orders to others to do their work for them for little or no wages… aka free.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  34. #31.— Little wonder Palin is rock solid with the base GOP. When your base is as thick as a brick, a rock seems quite the metamorphsis.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  35. #31- …this country has problems in need of a mature, measured conservative approach. A grown-up approach.

    “Deficits don’t matter.”— mature, measured, conservative, grown-up conservative Vice President Richard “Dick” Cheney.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  36. “The splintered, simplistic and myopic conservativism known today to those raised in the wreckage of the post-Reagan era, is dead.”

    DCSCA – What wreckage would that be moron? Can you explain the core principles of the ideology replacing conservatism?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  37. #30– It never ceases to amaze how reactionary conservatives bark orders to others to do their work for them for little or no wages… aka free.

    Thankyou thankyou thankyou! for the unintended best laugh of the evening.

    It’s Obama himself who wants you to work for him. Syphon our salaries and pay for those who leach off the system. Take the ND/GS-style work projects away from private business and give HIS regime control and authority. ($$$) The forced volunteerism… higher taxes. You want pay and compensation for your efforts? Maybe work your way up, open a business, provide jobs and serve customers? You want to be a Republican, not a Soros liberal. I repeat, not a Soros liberal.

    Vermont Neighbor (ceab4f)

  38. Ignore DCSCA, daleyrocks. If conservatism were as dead as he claims, he wouldn’t expend so much energy telling us it is.

    Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (ed9791)

  39. Comment by DCSCA — 12/28/2008 @ 7:36 pm …et al
    “… Americans have always been a progressive people…”

    If by Progressive, you mean a people who value individual freedom and liberty, who decry an overweening governmental presence, and wish to lead their lives as they determine them, and not as directed from “on high”; then Yes, I would suppose that we are a “progressive” people.

    But, in the actual catechism of politics, what I have described is someone, and a people, who are essentially conservative (classically Liberal), and who are joined by new arrivals on a daily basis who come here to leave behind the crushing authoritarianism of being led by their “betters”.

    This country existed for 140 years with a small central government that followed the precepts of the Constitution, and allowed individuals a maximum of freedom and liberty. It was the nanny-state mentality of the “Progressives” that have given us Prohibition (in both drugs and alcohol), that got us involved in European Wars and their aftermaths, and that has introduced the invidious disease of socialism to the body politik that is slowly destroying the will and spirit of the American People from within as would a cancer.
    Pardon me if I don’t accept with enthusiasm this great stride forward into slavery.

    Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy) (d8d174)

  40. Conservatives lost because the country turned away from their failed ideology.

    What specifically do you define that ideology as? You keep saying it’s been rejected but don’t say what it is. Pro-life? Responding aggressively to terrorism? Opposition to gay marriage? Drilling for more oil? What exactly?

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  41. Comment by Vermont Neighbor — 12/28/2008 @ 7:16 pm

    Then there’s this, although it relates to the Dem nomination contest rather than the general:

    Hillary Backers Decry Massive Obama Vote Fraud

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  42. Comment by Gerald A @ 8:42 pm

    Absolutely. So much swept under the rug.

    Vermont Neighbor (ceab4f)

  43. Paul – DCSCA doesn’t like to answer questions. They’re beneath him, just distractions.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  44. #39 Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy):

    Pardon me if I don’t accept with enthusiasm this great stride forward into slavery.

    Just below this echo of my own sentiment, Gerald A asks:

    What specifically do you define that ideology as?

    A question that deserves an answer~

    When asked, I typically define conservatism as a reluctance to abandon social principles arrived at over long experience of the human condition for unproven (or disproven) ideals.

    Why did the Civil Rights Act of 1964 gain such overwhelming support in the conservative camp? Because one of the classically liberal principles of conservatism is that it is individual freedom that benefits society the most. Setting moral and ethical considerations aside~ a free population will outperform a population of slaves (or a mixed population of slaves and free men).

    Freedom works. Take a gander at North and South Korea for a stark example. I am always flabbergasted at the leftist accusations of racism on the Right, because freedom for me and not for you isn’t. If I believe in freedom for me, then I must believe in freedom for you as well, or my own freedom is a sham. Along with individual liberty comes the right to own property, else I would not be free. The idea that I should be enslaved to provide for another, against my will, is counterproductive to the stability and prosperity of a society.

    It’s true that some individuals are more fortunate than others~some are wealthier than others, some are better looking, some are smarter, some are afflicted by disease…you get the idea. Life is inherently unfair~but we don’t make it any more “fair” by enshackling the more fortunate or more successful: that only decreases the general welfare.

    While the recent ascendency of the Left indicates that there are plenty of individuals quite willing to take from another what they cannot acquire gainfully of their own industry, it doesn’t indicate to me that conservatism is dead. What it does mean though, is that society will continue to suffer the crippling effects of appeals to our baser instincts to “hate the other” that are necessary for the Left to have any credibility at all.

    The alternative to conservatism is childishness and enablement by a self-selected class of rogues who play on the gullible for their self aggrandizement.

    I think the obit isn’t quite ready for print yet.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  45. Comment by EW1(SG) — 12/28/2008 @ 9:28 pm

    The “Progressives” in our midst are woefully inept in their understanding of the political history of the great country they proclaim to love, but disdain at every opportunity.

    Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy) (d8d174)

  46. #38– And if it werent, you wouldnt keep braying so much that it is not.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  47. #39- Pardon me if I don’t accept with enthusiasm this great stride forward into slavery.

    Naturally, a conservative ends an ill-informed position, arrived at by poor intelligence, by asking for a pardon.

    You have 23 days.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  48. What do you mean, [we] have 23 days? Haven’t you been paying attention? He’s already fucking up NOW!

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  49. #48– My. A raw nerve struck. Blood pressure pills will be much less expensive when national healthcare arrives. Until then, try decaf.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  50. Blood pressure fine; don’t drink coffee; will NEVER enroll in national health care [and YES, you are yet another libby troll that cannot deal with the accurate spelling of compounds; what were the odds?]

    Care to be wrong about anything else?

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  51. #50- you will when its cheaper. Whoops, I’m wrong.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  52. #44 When asked, I typically define conservatism as a reluctance to abandon social principles arrived at over long experience of the human condition for unproven (or disproven) ideals.

    Webster’s defines conservativism as follows:

    Main Entry:
    con·ser·va·tism
    Pronunciation:
    \kən-ˈsər-və-ˌti-zəm\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    1832
    1capitalized a: the principles and policies of a Conservative party b: the Conservative party2 a: disposition in politics to preserve what is established b: a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change ; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)3: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change.

    Creating your own defintions to warp reality usually generates inaccuarate assumptions and false conclusions.

    Accordingly, in our Base 10 Universe, Conservative lesson #1, repeat:

    1+1=2, not 11.

    DCSCA (d8da01)

  53. As one who wants the gov’t to end Social Security, I can assure you that I will NEVER (Did I say that already? Oh yeah, I did; you just didn’t bother to listen) sign up for national health care. Another thing of which I can assure you: I will NEVER tell you what you are going to do in the future. That type of presumptuous arrogance is reserved for knee-jerks like . . . well, you know.

    Eleventy!!!

    Icy Texan (b7d162)

  54. And if it werent, you wouldnt keep braying so much that it is not.

    Hey daleyrocks, the fact that he responded to my comment proves my point. He could just let us wallow in our “irrelevancy”, but no, he has to continue beating a dead horse.

    Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (ed9791)

  55. How surprising, a complaint from a leftie…you know, those folk that delight in redefining terms to mean what they want them to mean as long as it plays into their narrative, complaining that my use of a word doesn’t conform to it’s desired use of the word. Be that as it may, from its own definition:

    3: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change.

    The singular difference between my statements above, and the difference in the tertiary definition supplied by the troll is a single adjective:

    3: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to ineffective change.

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  56. Conservatives lost because the country turned away from their failed ideology

    Webster’s defines conservativism as follows:

    So the country has rejected the Webster’s definition of conservatism? Which part of that? All of it? Some of it? Is there any substance to your claims, or do you just like to waste people’s time?

    Gerald A (138c50)

  57. “Parties become much more pragmatic when they’ve won”

    And expose themselves to a “base” that is wont to throw them under the bus when they don’t yell the Old Time Religion from the rooftops. DRJ and JD, I’m talking to you (among others).

    Brad S (9f6740)

  58. “Deficits don’t matter.”— mature, measured, conservative, grown-up conservative Vice President Richard “Dick” Cheney.”

    And Darth Cheney was dead-on right when he said that. Which made a lot of “fiscal conservatives” rather angry because thinking about government spending from a finance perspective takes away a rhetorical weapon.

    But DCSCA, you’re a “rhetoric addict” in need of intervention, much like DRJ and JD.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  59. “SPQR- Conservativism is dead. Accept it.”

    It’s going to be interesting to see how you keep your screwballs amped up these next 2-4 years, because you’re going to be in for a nasty surprise in 2010 and 2012 if you keep issuing that sort of certain proclamation.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  60. “And if it werent, you wouldnt keep braying so much that it is not.”

    Paul – I was very impressed by his brilliant grade school circular reasoning in that retort.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  61. DCSCA has shown no comprehension of any substantive issue at all. And he thinks that annoyance with his vapid trollery is “hitting a nerve”, showing that even the most pedestrian of cliches are beyond his command.

    SPQR (72771e)

  62. Hell, I’m not even annoyed…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  63. Barack Obama already has a track record of corruption and money laundering via the CAC and Rezko, as well as getting Michelle a six-figure payoff at her hospital assignment. His use of public service and its perks are well-documented in his ruthless self-serving agenda.

    DCSCA, as for presumed liberal intelligence: This was a media-driven, Acorn-fed faux election, which just shows the gullibility of Obama voters. So much available info on his background, regardless of what he tried to cover, erase and hide. No, vetting was not done on this supposedly transparent candidate. You voted for skin color and the concocted Hollywood story that went with it. And now, in Hawaii, we see that Obama feels he’s graduated beyond the press and the burden of their help. He doesn’t need that pesky media now after all they did covering every piece of FILTH on this guy AND his associates, day in and day out.

    Therefore, it’s truly not America’s ‘ first black politician voted into office.’ It’s the media’s last stand at effecting an election. Successfully that is, and with full cooperation from those with their eyes wide shut. And, those who don’t read or venture past American Idol.

    Vermont Neighbor (ceab4f)

  64. DCSCA…is that code for Musca domestica?

    Another Drew (wwbkaADitcy) (209453)


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