Patterico's Pontifications

12/19/2008

The Bad, The Good, and The Ugly

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:11 am

The bad: Coleman’s lead over that douchebag Franken is only two votes. (Maybe five. Who’s counting?)

The good: the margin separating the candidates may well be wider tomorrow.

The ugly: Franken will probably be ahead. Which would make the good not so good after all.

67 Responses to “The Bad, The Good, and The Ugly”

  1. :(

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  2. That is how Democrats operate – keep counting and recounting until they are ahead. Then stop counting.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  3. Democrats moto: Count every vote, every vote counts… that is until the Democrat wins. Works everytime. No honor. No shame.

    Dandapani (7aefb0)

  4. Give MN to Canada …

    JD (7f8e8c)

  5. No one I know expected any other outcome. This is what the Dems do so well…and what they would have done in Bush/Gore but for the US Supreme Court.

    Increase Mather (3732b9)

  6. Look at it this way, getting Al Franken in the Senate simply reduces the total aggregate IQ of that august body of aging solons.

    Of course, the aggregate ego level increases by an order of magnitude.

    SeniorD (e78e22)

  7. …Democrats moto: Count every vote, every vote counts… that is until the Democrat wins. Works everytime. No honor. No shame….

    But hey, look on the bright side(s): At least you can YouTube his every word the next 6 years, and slice/dice accordingly. Heck, you’re even able to keep the “Moral High Ground” that you so treasure, even though the Moral High Ground is the most overrun piece of territory in military history.

    Didn’t George W Bush’s 2000 experiences teach ANY of you something about standing up for yourselves? Or were you too busy trying to find some way to distance yourselves from him (and the GOP) to even think about that?

    Folks, the Dems/Left know your every move like the back of their hands. They know you won’t stand behind your boys (and girls). Now with the latest conservative icon dying (Paul Weyrich, RIP), you can’t even find your rear end with a flashlight.

    So this is what it looks like when there’s No One Left To Throw Under the Bus.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  8. The loyal American loving left is only getting even for the SCOTUS’ selecting Bush in 2000. We all know that the Jooos in Palm Beach didn’t mean to vote for Buchanan. Those votes should have been tossed. Algore should have been allowed to have votes recounted in counties he thought needed review and correction. Evil Theresa Lapore and Katherine Harris were part and parcel of the larceny against AGW God Gore. The chads should all have been alloted to algore, hanging/dimpled or otherwise.
    It’s funny that people are excorciating Caroline Kennedy for wanting her proper due as a US Senator. Upstate NY’ers are not happy? Her own uncle fatboy was hardly an exemplar of congeniality and wisdom when elected to Senate. See how he has grown into the liberal lion he is today. Bush has no trouble kissing his arse on a regular basis. The Kennedys are very adept at persuading compassionate conservatives to compromise their principles.
    Al Franken may well be joined in two years by a Senator Chrissie Matthews.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  9. Yes, Brad. We know. It is our fault that Al Franken is a dishonest douchebag. We should simply just agree with everything Dear Leader says, no matter what. Submit, bithces.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  10. You know… we’ve never seen any proof of Al Franken’s age. He might not be eligible.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  11. Coleman’s diminishing lead is due to one thing: his challenges were mostly blatant crap, which intentionally inflated his “lead” throughout this recount process to create the perception he was “winning.” Now that they are going through the challenges and deciding they were mostly garbage, as votes get properly counted Franken is of course pulling ahead.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  12. aplomb, Franken’s challenges were as crappy as Coleman’s.

    You probably know this, but Coleman forfeited all his bullshit challenges yesterday, which is why he had the sudden drop. Franken is the only one clinging to bullshit challenges at this point.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  13. Oh, what a steaming pile of cow dung. How would you explain the original vote count lead, since there were no challenges involved in that? Apparently, you have not bothered to read even the posts our host did on the examples of intellectual honesty put for amongst the Franken challenges.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  14. JD,

    Al Franken gets away with his mendacity because he instinctively knows you conservatives won’t stand behind Norm Coleman. He knows that the GW Bush “Pushback” of 2000 was a one-shot deal, and sees the Right’s turning on Bush as evidence of the one-shot deal. And it really helps him that he basically has like-minded fellow travellers in positions of counting the votes.

    See what happens when you pursue the “Moral High Ground” over standing up for yourself? It’s not me that’s telling you to Submit, Bitches; you’re doing a fine lay-down job as is.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  15. The original (pre recount process) lead for Coleman was based on a few errors such as misplaced decimals and misplaced ballots, things Coleman isn’t even contesting at this point and won’t when this inevitably goes to litigation no matter who wins. It was meaningless as it didn’t count absentee or provisional votes, anyway. That’s why Minnesota has the automatic recount process when it is that close, there will be tiny errors and adjustments made to any election that usually don’t matter but do when it is that close.

    In the recount process, Coleman started ahead because he challenged so many votes on bullshit grounds and thus they weren’t counted in the beginning recount vote. Sure, Franken did too, but obviously not as many as a matter of pure reason and logic if you take the time to think about it. How do we know this? Franken is gaining while Coleman is falling behind, meaning more of Coleman’s challenges turned out to be bullshit. Simple logic, people.

    Josh Marshall has a pretty revealing example of how disgusting some of Coleman’s challenges could actually be can be found here. Unbelievable.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  16. Brad S – What, pray tell, leads you to believe that “you conservatives” will not stand behind Norm Coleman? Some people turned on Bush on some issues when he abandoned traditional Republican principles. In your world, that is wrong. All submit to Dear Leader. No thanks.

    Aplomb conveniently overlooks things like ballots that have been “discovered”. It also appears that “logic” is in the process of being redefined by the Left.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  17. aplomb, I do agree that some of Coleman’s challenges were unbelievable. But I disagree on your reasoning. Coleman abandoned a bunch of challenges yesterday… Franken didn’t and his were at least as egregious (and I think clearly much more egregious) challenges…

    The fact that Franken has pulled even is only a result of Coleman abandoning challenges while Franken refuses to… and not any indication that Coleman’s were worse challenges.

    I have no idea who is going to win this, but I think Franken’s argument over absentee ballots is specious.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  18. Misplaced decimals?

    Mossberg500 (9fd170)

  19. No one will have to remind me to take no more hunting trips to Mn and to never buy anything that can be identified as coming out of Mn. If insanity is catching the state should be under quarntine.

    The left is so stupid, yes I mean stupid, they won’t even accept the Revrund Je$$ie (at what church is a mystery, maybe a $39.95 degree from the internet) and the Lame Stream Media’s many recount in Fl after 8 years of knowing the truth. Every time they recounted the votes GWB gained (without the democrat criminals in Fl counting) votes. If they had counted the ‘military’ votes the margin would have been greater by thousands.

    Democrats want Socialism/Communism so someone else can make all decisions for them since they aren’t (as proven many times over) smart enough to make they’re own decisions in life.

    Scrapiron (dda662)

  20. I clicked on your link, Aplomb, and I will reproduce same for all here, to keep them from having to hold their noses and click on that site. This gives one actual example of a contested ballot, and I agree, this one is bad, but one does not prove your point, nor does simply asserting that Franken has been more successful, therefore, less disingenuous in his use of challenges. Add that in with an ACORN buddy running the process, and ballots having been “discovered”, and it makes your points laughable.

    The Worst Ballot Challenge Of All
    By Eric Kleefeld – December 18, 2008, 10:32PM
    Looking back over today’s meeting of the Minnesota state canvassing board, it’s become painfully clear that Norm Coleman’s big problem is that his ballot challenges are made up almost entirely of brazenly frivolous attempts to get votes for Al Franken thrown out. During the recount proper, that puffed up his apparent lead.

    But now we’re at the point where all those challenges are resolved — in other words, he can’t hide behind these tricks anymore. To be fair, Franken had his share of hopeless tries to toss Coleman votes, but it was nowhere near this bad.

    This one might just be the worst of all. The Coleman campaign tried to get a vote for Franken thrown out because the voter had written on the ballot. What’d they write?

    Thank you for counting my vote!
    Is there anything more that needs to be said?

    JD (7f8e8c)

  21. Mossberg – They are just making shit up.

    Juan – This is what happens when they try to make up Teh Narrative as they go along.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  22. Juan — as far as I understand it, those 400 dropped challenges are not responsible for the current 2 or five vote gap. Those will be calculated in today’s count I believe, meaning Franken will jump up at least 400 votes today.

    I’m basing this on this post from Powerline, which includes a statement from the Coleman campaign about it, basically a statement getting everyone ready for a big jump in Franken’s numbers when those 400 get factored in. That’s how I read it anyway, it’s kind of confusing (such as when it says “Because of the timing, the withdrawn challenges that will provide additional Coleman votes will not be awarded until later” — why would Coleman challenge its own votes, and why would they be counted later and not today with the Franken votes?)

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  23. JD,

    I don’t know. This little comment at the linked HotAir piece:

    “To cop a semi-famous quote, you have to get to know Norm Coleman before you can really dislike him. I’m no fan of Franken, but losing Norm is no great loss.

    starfleet_dude on December 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM”

    gives me at least some hints. And I’m guessing this comment about Ed Morrissey:

    “Gosh, I’d like to think that Ed Morrissey would defend the integrity of his home state’s election process. But I suppose I shouldn’t hold my breath.

    starfleet_dude on December 18, 2008 at 11:37 PM”

    suggests a lack of desire to do anything about this obvious theft.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  24. Brad S – Take it up with starfleet_dude. Those are his words. I/we are not him, nor is this hotair.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  25. suggests a lack of desire to do anything about this obvious theft.

    No, it does not suggest that. It suggest that starfleet_dude thinks that some people do not like Norm Coleman, and it suggest that he does not think that Ed will do enough to protest Franken’s actions.

    As is your style, you have taken one comment from one individual and extrapolated that out to conservatives in general. Not a really good way to make a point …

    JD (7f8e8c)

  26. aplomb, all I know is that this was a terribly run election, and both campaigns were unfair int he challenge process. I hope the voters get who they legitimately voted for, but there are a lot of strange things happening with magically appearing ballots that, as always, heavily favor the democrat.

    There have been poor handling of provisional ballots and it seems that there is always another issue. No matter who wins, faith in democracy has been undermined.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  27. Juan: I think faith in democracy is undermined every time there is a close election. If you don’t do the recount, the partisans of the guy who lost is going to think that a recount would have caused him to win. If you do the recount and it changes the result, the partisans of the original winner are going to think the recount was rigged. Ironically, a rigged recount which is guaranteed to confirm the original winner is probably the result most likely to bolster faith in democracy.

    In this case, from what I’ve seen, most of the decisions the canvassing boards are making are reasonable. As long as that remains true, I’m content with either outcome (because the process matters more to me than the result).

    And, as I’ve said before: in effect the result is within the margin of error of the voting system. I think we actually cannot tell what the voters intended whenever an election’s results are within that election’s margin of error; we’ve achieved a statistical tie and might as well just flip a coin. So at this point what matters is that the rules are followed and the process is nonpartisan – which, as far as I can tell, it has been.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  28. “I/we are not him, nor is this hotair.”

    Damn, you’ll throw anyone under the bus if it makes you look bad.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  29. I’ve said it before: The fact that an assclown like Franken could even get close is adequate proof that we are doomed.

    Old Coot (a8acc7)

  30. Brad S – When did starfleet_dude become the spokesperson for us? I didn’t throw anyone under the bus. I simply pointed out the egregious flaws in your argument.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  31. So at this point what matters is that the rules are followed and the process is nonpartisan – which, as far as I can tell, it has been.

    I don’t know, aphrael, any time you have partisan politicians making decisions in these matters it is bound to be partisan. Heck, any time you have people with political principles making these decisions you are bound to have partisanship. Maybe the solution is to find the most uninvolved citizens who never bother to vote and ask them to make the final determination.

    JVW (bff0a4)

  32. Thank God Saxby Chambliss won in Georgia. Otherwise it is 60-vote city. Can you imagine how the Dems and media would treat the Illinois Senate situation if the Dems were sitting at 59 Senators right now?

    JVW (bff0a4)

  33. I simply pointed out the egregious flaws in your argument.

    BS has amply demonstrated that it is impervious to problematic things like logic, independent and objective thinking – that makes it’s head hurt.

    Dmac (e30284)

  34. And wasn’t Starfleet_Dude a notorious troll over at Ed’s old site.

    Thomas (a3c869)

  35. There are more trolls than there are stars in the sky, it seems these days. And I don’t mind if they are funny. Or, God forbid, they actually contribute something positive.

    But sophomoric (in many cases, literally) snottiness and reactivity is pretty tiring. It drives posters who don’t like trolls away.

    Eric Blair (e906af)

  36. How convenient, Bob Woodward announces who deep throat is when he is completely senile and cant speak, then dies a year later.

    And now the revelation that Bernstein never met him before? Come on Bob, you know good and well that “Deep Throat” was Henry Kissinger and even your own notes point to him. You are a phoney!

    JoeG (614e63)

  37. Eric Blair,

    Are conservatives so emotionally fragile and so socially brittle that anyone who dares mention that conservatives may bear SOME responsibility for their current predicament must be peer-pressured into silence? All I’m saying is that a whole bunch of commenters here should man up and accept that with winning comes responsibility.

    The Intellectual and Media Right, early on in this election cycle, showed the world that they’d rather be irresponsible brats than have to defend their policies, their record, and ESPECIALLY their “principles.”

    Brad S (b5b919)

  38. I’m sorry, Brad S. Were you being a troll? I certainly agree that both parties have massive screwups.

    Eric Blair (cc9718)

  39. Brad, you need to go back and review the heat that was directed by many of the regulars here towards the likes of George Will, Peggy Noonan, and others of the Illuminati of the Right, when they went soft during the run-up to the election.

    Our problem seems to be one that we like to defend our principles more that we will defend those in our midst who violate those same principles.

    You, OTOH, seem to think that we need to follow in lock-step no matter what.
    Well, I won’t go there.

    Another Drew (efe318)

  40. Eric – Disagree with Brad S, President Bush, and starship-trooper and you are responsible for everything bad that has happened in the last 8 years looking back, and the next 4, looking ahead. Submit, bitches. NOW.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  41. “Our problem seems to be one that we like to defend our principles more that we will defend those in our midst who violate those same principles.”

    True, and frankly, as to George Will and Peggy Noonan (among others), I have only one phrase for them: Whom did you backstab today?

    But you MUST realize that there is more that needs to be done than just “defend the principles.” You have to SELL those principles to people, especially African-Americans and Latinos. Most salespeople are far from perfect, as anyone who’s dealt with a car salesman can attest.

    But you can’t drive your best salespeople away if they’ve got one small deviation from the sales script. Correct them, yes, but STAND BEHIND THEM TOO.

    Brad S (b5b919)

  42. SUBMIT BITCHES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    JD (7f8e8c)

  43. JD… perhaps there is a middle ground between total submission and not defending our own.

    I have only rarely defended Bush, but I do think he clearly got far less support from his party tan he deserved. He’s the worst communicator I can think of, so he needed the help, but also is responsible for his problem.

    I do think the right wing (if you want to call it that), would be much better off it was better about articulating support for its imperfect members. Then again, I also love how the republicans don’t blindly accept BS.

    Like I said, there is probably a middle ground.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  44. President Bush quit standing up for not only conservative principles, but quit defending himself quite some time ago. At one point, even Patterico had a post questioning why we should bother to defend the President when he will not even defend himself. Couple a complete and total disengagement from the President with his repeated lurches to the Left, and I fail to see why anyone should feel beholden to him at this point. Everyone spent a lot of political capital, and to what end? Then we get clowns like Brad S telling us that we did not do enough? If it were not for the war and taxes and ESCR, I can think of very few things that I agree with, or more importantly, that he got out in front of, and defended himself.

    JD (7f8e8c)

  45. If Franken is seated, then he and Charles Rangel can form the “Tax Cheats Congressional Caucus”.

    SPQR (72771e)

  46. Give Minnesota away …

    JD (7f8e8c)

  47. As I recall, this is how Christine Gregoire got elected: keep miraculously finding “missing” ballots until the Democrat has more votes, then stop counting.

    Bob Smith (281b12)

  48. I agree that without the war effort I would also not give a flip about Bush. He’s been a total disaster on domestic policy and it amazes me that liberals do not love him… they are too stupid to realize that a Republican can be a fairly effective liberal. Clinton left fewer democrat style footprints than Bush (or Nixon, for that matter).

    If Obama doesn’t screw up on foreign policy, and there appears to be a chance he won’t, then I won’t mind having lost the election. Mccain would have done many of the domestic crap Obama’s going to do.

    But ultimately, at some point, we have to pick up what’s left of this party and figure out a way to win some power and do good for the tattered overspent economy.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  49. All I’m saying is that a whole bunch of commenters here should man up

    Very well – you’re a blithering pustulence on the body politic, and would do well to place your head up your nether regions immediately.

    Dmac (e30284)

  50. It’s probably best that Franken wins. Coleman is under federal investigation for not reporting cash received from contributors (the “Uncle Ted” defense?). So dollars get you donuts he is going to be indicted anyway . . . a point that powerlinblog, in all its commentary, never seems to mention.

    B-Rob (3963e2)

  51. Yes, indeed, we must all agree that, as it is succinctly described by Mr. Patterico, Al Franken is a syringe used to wash out vaginas, i.e. “douchebag.” He probably aspired to such as an undergraduate at some school in the Boston area.

    Why do you people hate American democracy when it doesn’t go your way?

    Maybe you should fly a few hundred jumping/screaming young Federalist Society guys in ties to Minnesota to clamor and scream and howl and bump and push anything and everybody near the vote counting room. Now, that’s democracy. Maybe you can find a way to win. It would improve your hormone balance.

    Larry Reilly (d11f9a)

  52. Brad S – When did starfleet_dude become the spokesperson for us? I didn’t throw anyone under the bus. I simply pointed out the egregious flaws in your argument.

    Comment by JD — 12/19/2008 @ 9:11 am

    Do you think Brad S knows his argument is a perfect example of the hasty generalization fallacy?

    bonhomme (b47539)

  53. larry, Franken set the terms of discourse and Patterico is only abiding them.

    We would surely still call Franken a violent undemocratic asshole even if he lost. You dispute this? Or do you admit you are wrong. Can’t have it both ways, buddy.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  54. Juan: in many ways, I think President Nixon’s administration was the last liberal administration.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  55. Larry Reilly,

    Why are you such an angry young man?

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  56. Surely that is a rhetorical question, Mr. Frey.

    That is what trolls do. That is what trolls are.

    Eric Blair (e906af)

  57. It would improve your hormone balance.

    Mawy knows all about hormones, having been on replacement therapy well before her adolescent years. So Mawy’s a Big Girl now!

    Dmac (e30284)

  58. Wow, Dmac. That’s gonna leave a mark.

    Eric Blair (e906af)

  59. Is it against the GOP credo to allow close elections to work through the recount process?

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  60. Sigh, Dmac. What are you gonna do? There needs to be a new “Troll” movie, clearly. Otherwise this “teacher” will have too much time on his hands.

    Not to mention lotion (to steal one of your best lines).

    Eric Blair (e906af)

  61. Comment by Eric Blair — 12/19/2008 @ 5:33 pm

    Yeah, that goes double for me.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  62. Dmac, he’s all yours. The fact that it just said it needs to double up on the lotion says it all.

    Eric Blair (e906af)

  63. Why do you people hate American democracy when it doesn’t go your way?

    Thank you, Larry! Somebody had to say it; that is exactly right. It is not ‘democracy’ that they love, or even ‘freedom’. People should only be free enough to agree with them, according to the GOP. And democracy is only viable so long as GOP candidates are successful.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  64. Patterico –

    Larry don’t want no Cap’t Crunch,
    don’t want no Raisin Bran!

    Adriane (497622)

  65. Mawy has many imaginary friends, but they tend to be kind of greasy at times.

    Dmac (e30284)

  66. Why do you people hate American democracy when it doesn’t go your way?

    What’s happening in Minnesota is a sham and a fraud, not democracy.

    Bob Smith (281b12)

  67. Oh come, come. Doesn’t everybody count 133 votes that every agrees nobody can find?

    Why when I was $133.00 short in my bank account, and my taxes due check bounced, I just told the IRS that the fact that I wrote the check for my taxes must have meant that at one time I had the $133.00 and it just must have gotten lost between me mailing my tax form and them opening it at the processing center.

    Problem solved.

    Adriane (497622)


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