Patterico's Pontifications

12/14/2008

Minnesota Senate Update

Filed under: Politics — DRJ @ 7:56 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Powerline has an update on the Minnesota Senate race:

“So the board now brings Minnesota to the verge of a Florida-style fiasco. The treatment of rejected absentee ballots may vary throughout the state, subject to no uniform standard. Many counties have refused to sort rejected absentee ballots in the “recommended” manner. No standard for including previously rejected absentee ballots has ever been provided. It is not part of the recount process contemplated by the statute.”

Bush vs Gore seemed like a once-in-a-lifetime case. Now, just 8 years later, it may be precedent in another election with national implications.

There’s more:

“Going back to the board’s treatment of the “missing” 133 Minneapolis ballots, I am struck by the confidence exhibited on Monday by the Franken campaign regarding the board’s disposition of the issue. The confidence can only have derived from the Franken campaign’s communications with Secretary of State Ritichie [sic] out of public view. Franken’s placidity in the face of the city’s decision to abandon the search for the ballots is otherwise inexplicable.”

In case you wondered, Mark Ritchie is a Democrat and reportedly a former community organizer and ACORN ally.

— DRJ

127 Responses to “Minnesota Senate Update”

  1. The best solution now is a runoff election. There was a third party candidate who got as many votes as the third party guy in Georgia.

    Mike K (ee3203)

  2. Yes, they should keep having elections and recounts until Stuart Smiley is declared the winner. Let’s hope SCOTUS doesn’t get involved to steal the election for Coleman. Laws should be living, breathing tools to reflect the will of ACORN, Soros and progressives in general. And why should their even be anonymity in elections? Man up and admit your allegiances. Why treat regular citizens any worse than prospective union members? GOP should bend over and surrender Washington State voting scandal style.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  3. I totally agree madmex. Keep running it until the GOP is out.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  4. And here it is again….

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  5. EB! I can’t agree with a fellow poster?

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  6. Going through previously-rejected absentee ballots is just another “dangling chad” fishing expedition for votes. It’s not part of the recount statute, so it’s illegal, even if they’re doing it. The Supreme Court of the United States will declare the Democrat the loser in this one again, 5-4.

    Official Internet Data Office (5fd2bd)

  7. Having the GOP appointed Supreme Court decide elections must give you guys wet dreams.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  8. “Having the GOP appointed Supreme Court decide elections must give you guys wet dreams.”

    tnj – Most conservatives I know don’t have a problem confusing politics with sex the way progressives do.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  9. The Supreme Court of the United States will declare the Democrat the loser in this one again, 5-4.

    6-3 at worst.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  10. And wait until you see natural-born citizen Hillary Clinton elected President tomorrow by the Electoral College, instead of that. . . foreigner.

    Then the fun starts!

    Meanwhile, read about the scandal on the front page of this newspaper, which deserves a Pulitzer for its efforts, much more so than the Los Angeles Times.

    Official Internet Data Office (5fd2bd)

  11. Meanwhile, read about the scandal on the front page of this newspaper. . .

    Oh my God, Donny Osmond is getting a divorce?

    JVW (bff0a4)

  12. Flip a flipping coin already.

    There are elections where it is IMPOSSIBLE to count your way to a satisfactory outcome. Florida 2000 was one such and this is another. In Kevin’s kingdom, elections that are separated by 0.01% or less would be decided by coin toss. It’s not like the voters had a preference.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  13. Not that there would BE elections in Kevin’s kingdom….

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  14. Kevin: I think a coin toss is a fine way to solve it. The election result is within the margin of error of the vote counting system. We should accept that, resolve the statistical tie according to some simple rule, and move on.

    [I said the same thing in 2000].

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  15. ZOMG! The Kennedy clan is feuding? Quick, someone get these guys a Pulitzer!

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  16. tnj – Most conservatives I know don’t have a problem confusing politics with sex the way progressives do.

    Comment by daleydoesn’t — 12/14/2008 @ 9:40 pm

    Are you sure about that?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092901574.html

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  17. Meanwhile, read about the scandal on the front page of this newspaper, which deserves a Pulitzer for its efforts, much more so than the Los Angeles Times.

    Comment by Official Internet Data Office — 12/14/2008 @ 10:10 pm

    Just like a conservacrazy to credit globe magazine for accurate journalism.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  18. Just like a conservacrazy to credit globe magazine for accurate journalism.

    Well, here in the US, they have a 50/50 shot at completely scooping “real” journalists…

    *cough*Edwards*coughcough*

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  19. Scott: Why don’t you write expert analysis of all things journalism and why you believe why that statement makes sense. 5000 words, please.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  20. Funny coming from a engineer/physicist who, when challenged, refused to spend some time explicating his own field of expertise.

    Just sayin’.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  21. The Globe is like Think Progress, or Talking Points Memo, or Kos, or Huffington Post, or Media Matters, or FireDogLake, except that the Globe has professional design, and people actually pay money for it.

    Official Internet Data Office (3dd6a3)

  22. I knew I liked you for a reason, Eric… turns out it’s because you are observant… :)

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  23. Haha! That went right over your head, EB. Do you and Scott wish to be alone?

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  24. And, I said I was a physics/chemistry teacher, not a physicist. You guys just read the words and make up in your head what you think they mean.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  25. I think the amusing part from our progressive friend is his homophobia.

    Where is the tolerance?

    Personally, I think the guy isn’t a teacher at all (notice he doesn’t call himself a professor).

    I think he is a student. And not a very good one. I also think we have seen him before, under a different name.

    But who knows? Maybe it is all true.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  26. I am not a professor, that is why I did not call myself one. Man, you really need help on these things, EB.

    I figured homophobia would get me some bonus points in here. Didn’t it work?

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  27. Oh, I can promise that I am not the person who needs help.

    You are just a troll. Your goal is to insult people. Frankly, it is cowardly. I also think that they way you try to insult people is another form of your own projection; it reveals a great deal about your unpleasant inner workings.

    But you know all that already.

    And I doubt you are a teacher. I think you are a student.

    Your every immature action screams “sophomore.”

    But you could be all those things you claim.

    Still, in the final analysis: Troll de Luxe.

    Except that gives you too much credit.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  28. If the Troll is indeed a teacher, I see no reason why he/she/it cannot tell us where they teach, and in what town. After all, public educators have nothing to hide, correct?

    Dmac (e30284)

  29. Dmac, TnJ is just another liberal who claims laurels and moral justification for himself and his delusions.

    Al Franken needs to be cancelled immediately.

    PCD (7fe637)

  30. Lately, Dmac, the guy (?) has been all about insulting people and trying to stir people up. As opposed to civil disagreement.

    The ironic thing is the sheer level of projection—the troll’s propensity for attacking other for doing things the troll does itself.

    So I am thinking: either frustrated undergraduate blowing off steam as finals approach/happen, or some bizarre performance art.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  31. Al Franken was in some television series about a news room year ago, called “Lateline.” He was the bombastic and idiotic head of the late night television program. His signature line?

    “We need to….” Lifting his palm upward six inches. “Raise the bar.”

    This is a guy who went to Harvard and graduated in “general studies.” His kids went to Harvard and Princeton. And this coked out LSD addled trustifarian is going to lecture American on “the working folk”?

    Yeah, the guys he pays to clean his pool.

    Sheesh.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  32. And, I said I was a physics/chemistry teacher, not a physicist.

    “I’m not a physicist, but I play one in the classroom.”

    It’s not often you see a leftist admit they aren’t an expert in everything, especially when it’s their own professional field, but it’s damn ballsy to take that lack of knowledge and use it as a refutation of criticism against them–“I really don’t know anything beyond a superficial smattering of basic facts, so YOU’RE a dumbass for implying that I should possess a greater understanding of the subject!”

    Chris (2d8013)

  33. Eric, for a really good time, read the wonderful oral history of SNL by Tom Shales (and another author I don’t recall at the moment). It’s a great read, particularly when you peruse the voluminous comments regarding Franken, Garafalo and Chase. They’re the only individuals who are universally loathed by everyone on the SNL staff that had to work with them. Franken and Chase come in for particular scorn for acting like complete douchebags to one and all.

    Dmac (e30284)

  34. So I am thinking: either frustrated undergraduate blowing off steam as finals approach/happen, or some bizarre performance art.

    I vote for neither scenario; my choice is an angry pubescent who’s getting mighty pissed off at his mother’s continual insistence to clean out the litter box upstairs.

    Dmac (e30284)

  35. I did not say I didn’t know the subject, Chris, but I wanted to be clear that a physics teacher and a physicist are different things. After all and above all, I am for truth (and justice).

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  36. #33 …Franken, Garafalo and Chase. They’re the only individuals who are universally loathed by everyone on the SNL staff that had to work with them.

    No mention of Rob Schneider?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  37. Yeah, but he still isn’t writing much about his supposed field of expertise.

    But he does too know all about it! Tres mature. It’s just that writing about his own expertise is…a waste of time. Unlike the usual trolling, which is a great use of his/her/its time.

    Soon we will get something cribbed from Wikipedia. Like I wrote before, I am more and more convinced that this character is a student.

    And a troll.

    I still say that this is one of the Usual Suspects.

    Dmac, the imagine that comes to mind when I think about Franken and his ilk is from a collection of PJ O’Rourke’s articles from The National Lampoon.

    A hippy, complete with beads, a head band, and a bong is looking into a mirror. Looking back is a guy, balding, in a three piece suit, holding a cigar.

    The cycle is complete.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  38. Apogee, I think I read that Schneider refused to each sushi without inspected each piece with a jeweler’s loupe.

    That is the intersection between OCD and jerkiness.

    If you are that worried about parasites, don’t eat sushi. But inspecting the sushi makes you look…somehow erudite and informed.

    This from Deuce Bigelow.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  39. tnj @ 16 – Reading comprehension is truly not one of your strong points. Try reviewing my comment again.

    How does a link to Mark Foley and an email scandal with pages represent a confusion of politics with sex? What does it have to do with wet dreams?

    I don’t know Mark Foley. Perhaps you do. Is there something you need to tell us?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  40. tnj – Now Foley’s successor is another matter. He’s been pimping out his mistress for political purposes and putting her on his payroll. He seems a little confused.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  41. But he does too know all about it! Tres mature. It’s just that writing about his own expertise is…a waste of time. Unlike the usual trolling, which is a great use of his/her/its time.

    I cannot believe you are still defending this “write a thesis for me so I know you’re not lying about your expertise” argument. I asked for a 5000 word essay on a subject earlier and I didn’t get it, so what makes you decide that your request should be given any additional consideration?

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  42. tnj @ 16 – Reading comprehension is truly not one of your strong points. Try reviewing my comment again.

    How does a link to Mark Foley and an email scandal with pages represent a confusion of politics with sex? What does it have to do with wet dreams?

    I don’t know Mark Foley. Perhaps you do. Is there something you need to tell us?

    Comment by daleydoesn’t — 12/15/2008 @ 12:02 pm

    I believe you answered your own inquiry within the post itself. If you still do not understand the link I would suggest keeping it to yourself so that you may save yourself further embarrassment

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  43. I asked for a 5000 word essay on a subject earlier and I didn’t get it, so what makes you decide that your request should be given any additional consideration

    Tell you what… Since I asked first, as soon as your comply with my request, I’ll comply with yours.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  44. Son, you still didn’t address me as sir. Stickybear knows that only when I am given a little respect do I respond with research papers for random internet j@ck-holes.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  45. Again, Bugs Bunny has the final word on this guy. Maroon.

    And it is amusing that he makes claims he doesn’t back up. But on that subject….

    TMJ writes:

    “…a physics teacher and a physicist are different things…”

    Um. Well, that statement strongly suggests that this character is not a teacher of physics. Gell-Mann and Feynman sure disagreed with that line of thinking.

    I’m also fond of this quote, from a physicist who also taught physics:

    “Example isn’t another way to teach, it is the only way to teach.” -Albert Einstein

    And this one is applicable in all sorts of ways, though Dyson is more mathematician than physicist. I like what Dyson wrote about engineering, and it fits the good engineers I know.

    A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible. There are no prima donnas in engineering.
    –Freeman Dyson

    But finally, the late great John Archibald Wheeler has two quotes that are most relevant to teaching and doing physics…and they apply to all fields of study:

    I can learn only by teaching.

    And my very favorite:

    Universities have students to teach the professors.

    Maybe this character actually is a teacher. Maybe not.

    It sure doesn’t sound like it.

    But who cares? The guy is just lashing out and being annoying.

    I think it was Dmac who said that the best thing to do with folks like that is laugh at them.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  46. Eric – He’s a fourth rate troll. Since he offers no intellectual challenge, laughter works best.

    This site has attracted much higher quality trolls in the past. Maybe they have been paid to go elsewhere and we have been left with the bottom of minor leagues.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  47. Haha, well they say that teams tend to play to the level of their competition.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  48. But finally, the late great John Archibald Wheeler has two quotes that are most relevant to teaching and doing physics…and they apply to all fields of study:

    Um… ‘doing physics’?

    I done did physics. I would say that teaching it at the high school level tends to be more about running an efficient classroom, endless preparation, and carefully articulating (and re-articulating) concepts to maximize learning. That is why I would not compare myself with an expert physicist (like Albert Einstein). I really didn’t think that this warranted explanation, but you’re clearly so obtuse that everything needs to be diagrammed out for you. The horse is dead, as they say, move on.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  49. Son, you still didn’t address me as sir.

    Bubba, until you make the attempt to earn some respect, you get what you get.

    I don’t know where the hell YOU grew up, but in the Midwest, you EARN respect – you are not merely given it because you showed up.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  50. I live in the midwest, and grew up here. Obviously you didn’t earn anything and I really don’t agree with your assessment. One could use that phrase with every geographical location on Earth but it doesn’t make it true.

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  51. daleyrocks, it is not my fault that Patterico’s troll supply is such low quality.

    SPQR (72771e)

  52. SPQR – I don’t blame you. I blame the trolls. Their complete lack of self-awareness is endemic to the progressive side. They don’t realize how badly they get bitchslapped and actually believe they score points here. Levi was amazing that way. tnj is just another in a long line who has got no game.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  53. I really didn’t think that this warranted explanation,

    Translation – “I don’t have an answer for you, so instead here’s an insult to divert your attention from my continual thumbsucking.”

    …that only when I am given a little respect do I respond with research papers for random internet j@ck-holes

    Second verse, same as the first. This act is getting quite old, what’s the sell – by date on bad Trollery?

    I live in the midwest, and grew up here.

    Have you emptied that litter box yet? Mom says no Happy Meal until you do your chores.

    Dmac (e30284)

  54. Dmac. Your translation isn’t even close. Tell me how it makes sense? Explain beyond the usual conservacrazy ‘this is how this is because I said it’ routine and give me a reason why that makes sense. I didn’t say “I didn’t think this warranted explanation” in leiu of an explanation but after I had given one. Are you pretending to be this idiotic or is just a game you like to play entitled: “How dumb do I have to be before the people on this site figure out I am even dumber than them and disown me”. Yes, I realize it is a clunky title, but maybe your progressive friends can suggest a more intelligent title.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  55. EB, when you describe tnj as a “sophmore”, I perceive him as a 10th-grader, probably on his second tour.

    AOracle (648197)

  56. If I am, then I am one that knows how to spell the word sophomore correctly.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  57. Well, you’ve probably had a lot of practice at it.

    AOracle (648197)

  58. Is that all you can come up with? Ugh. I weep for your parents. Then again, they deserve a little blame for the train wreck you’ve become.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  59. If you wish to insult my parents, just ask, and I’ll give you their address.
    If you wish to insult me, leave them out of it.

    AOracle (648197)

  60. Hmm. I choose both.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  61. You really are a pathetic little troll. And I also think that you aren’t very self-aware. Your projections are legion, like:

    “…but you’re clearly so obtuse …”

    This kind of immature discourse is why most people here doubt that you are an adult. I still think you are a student of some form.

    I suspect you have issues with self-esteem, professionally. And perhaps personally. I believe that you are now claiming to teach high school physics. For some reason, I recall it was college level in the past. But I could be incorrect.

    High school teaching is a tough and honorable job. If you actually do teach high school, you should be honored. But only if you avoid the combative, mean spirited antics we see here whenever you appear to post these days.

    Why not try to be positive?

    That is, if you are a high school teacher.

    As for being “obtuse,” I would recommend you remove the log in your own eye.

    And perhaps respect your own profession a bit more.

    Some of your comments make me doubt that you are all that familiar with physics. But I guess we will never know, will we?

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  62. tnj #60
    You can start then at 43-40N, 124-14.5W
    Hope they don’t bore you.

    AOracle (648197)

  63. How dumb do I have to be

    Yes, it has brilliant repartee – truly the mark of a mature mind. Next there will be references to how “stoopid” I am, followed by something from the olafactory senses.

    Yes, I realize it is a clunky title

    It admits it’s own idiocy, yet continues on, unabated.

    Then again, they deserve a little blame for the train wreck you’ve become.

    Now it’s apparently lifting entire lines from the latest movie of the week on the Lifetime network. What’s next, a routine lifted from Alan King’s performances at The Sands?

    Dmac (e30284)

  64. But I guess we will never know, will we?

    It admits nothing, for fear of a beclowning to a degree not seen here since Harptard’s defenestration.

    Dmac (e30284)

  65. EB: I match the level of insults I have received on here.

    I have not changed my story. I have never claimed to be a high school professor.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  66. college professor*

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  67. Dmac: are we certain that this isn’t the latest avatar of jharp?

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  68. Ha. I remember jharp. Did he get banned. I am not jharp.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  69. Several banned people have managed to get back on. But they get caught, and tossed out again. Patterico and DRJ look for abuse, and when it gets too extreme, they intervene. Some folks like to fight. Others don’t.

    The sad part is, if they behaved decently, it wouldn’t happen. But trolls aren’t about healthy disagreement. They are about feces flinging and trying to “speak troot to power” and similar immature displays right out of primatology.

    It’s up to you, whoever you are.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  70. I began as a poster doing the healthy disagreement thing but I was met with personal verbal attacks, no matter how nice I was. Go ahead and review the last few months, it will confirm my story.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  71. This blog isn’t really designed to spark any healthy debate. It is mostly for you to all be affirmed about things that you won’t ever change your minds about. It is really to keep your own sanity. I have to give you that, because I would hate for some of the people who post on this site to be out in public.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  72. I began as a poster doing the healthy disagreement thing but I was met with personal verbal attacks

    No, you were NOT “ding the healthy disagreement” thing. You were blindly spouting idiocy you read on DKos and heard on Olbermann, and when confronted with actual facts and reason, you got shrill and more pig-headed.

    Around here, we think that’s pretty stupid.

    Aphrael does honest disagreement. Leviticus does honest disagreement. You are an idiot.

    There’s a difference.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  73. Honestly, the troll’s own statements…well…suggest that perhaps history does not support the statements made.

    The smart move, if the troll was correct, would be to never respond in kind, but stay classy and above the personalities.

    But that would take some level of impulse control.

    The troll could start now. Ah, but is that likely?

    Again, despite the claims of being affronted and persecuted, it is pretty clear that this particular troll is here to fight and pretend to be tough…safely, at an electronic remove.

    Still, no time like the present to “take the high road.”

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  74. Aphrael does honest disagreement. Leviticus does honest disagreement. You are an idiot.

    There’s a difference.

    It does not know the difference, as has become willfully apparent.

    Dmac (e30284)

  75. I began as a poster doing the healthy disagreement thing but I was met with personal verbal attacks, no matter how nice I was. Go ahead and review the last few months, it will confirm my story.

    It habitually asks others to buttress it’s own claims, since said evidence does not exist.

    Dmac (e30284)

  76. Gee, this reminds me of the scene where Peter Lorre gets cornered in the movie M.

    Official Internet Data Office (3e33fd)

  77. truthnjustice 70:

    I began as a poster doing the healthy disagreement thing but I was met with personal verbal attacks, no matter how nice I was. Go ahead and review the last few months, it will confirm my story.

    Here’s the first Patterico.com post where you left a comment.

    DRJ (b4db3a)

  78. “I began as a poster doing the healthy disagreement thing”

    tnj – Pwnd by DRJ. Freaking liar.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  79. DRJ, is this TNJ person a legitimate poster or a previously banned individual? Maybe it doesn’t matter (especially if the person starts being more civil). But the recent trend has been pretty juvenile.

    It might be fine with everyone, and I don’t think that the character merits banning. But the trending seems very…familiar…to me.

    Your “house” DRJ.

    [Eric: Patterico decides who and when to ban someone but I don’t see any evidence that truthnjustice has posted under another name from his current IP address. — DRJ]

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  80. Just read TNJ’s first comment on Patterico.

    Kinda different than portrayed, huh? Thanks, DRJ, for bird-dogging that particular…well, lie…by that TdJ.

    The trouble is, you can never get those minutes back….

    Like I wrote before, some trolls are working out aggression in a safe location where no one will do more than argue with electrons. That seems to be the MO with truthnjustice.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  81. Well done, DRJ. Well done.

    ** applause **

    SPQR (26be8b)

  82. Sorry if I seem ill-tempered. I just gave an exam today, and am getting the usual “…I studied hard and know the material; I just can’t answer questions of tests…” tall tale.

    To feel better:

    http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/nosymp.htm

    And DRJ, a book recommendation. I have given this book to a number of people, and it is worth every parent’s while:

    “50 Rules Kids Won’t Learn In School” by Charles Sykes. It’s on Amazon, and it is SO worth your time.

    Everyone’s time, actually.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  83. Eric, a couple of years ago, when I was teaching Paralegal courses at the local community college, I had a student complain to the dept chair that I “was prejudiced against people who didn’t do their homework and didn’t show up for class”.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  84. Is everything you wish to be untrue a lie to conservatives?

    Stick a fork in it, it’s done. Thank you for your work here, DRJ – much appreciated.

    Dmac (e30284)

  85. I had a student complain to the dept chair that I “was prejudiced against people who didn’t do their homework and didn’t show up for class”.

    I have to know…

    How long until the Dept Chair stopped laughing?

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  86. I’m a book lover, Eric, and that sounds like a good one. Thank you.

    DRJ (b4db3a)

  87. Dear Scott….

    Sometimes, as SPQR will no doubt tell you, the administration pushes to make things “easier” on students, because of the tuition factor.

    Why, my friends in the midwest who teach in prenursing programs (which are popular and highly enrolled) are being pushed to remove all chemistry from the program.

    Yep, I want nurses who don’t know what pH means around when I am in the hospital.

    We have to balance the “customer view” of education against the “responsibility to the profession.” Would you want a science teacher in high school who never earned above a “C” in any science class? It goes on all the time.

    I personally would LOVE to have a Department Chair support higher standards for curricula. There are such Chairs out there. I have only met one or two, sadly.

    A couple of quarters ago, i was teaching freshmen. And I had a stoner entitled kid who could not keep his mouth shut in class. He was like a snotty Jeff Spicoli. A couple of students complained to me privately about stoner boy’s constant chattering.

    I sent out a group e-mail. No finger pointing, no remonstrations, but there needed to be a little bit less chatting in class. I’m happy to answer any and all questions, yadda yadda yadda. Again, nothing direct and personal.

    Within five minutes, Stoner Boy wrote the following e-mail, which I reproduce verbatim:


    i dont appreciate being treated like a highschool student. i can sit where I want and talk if I wan’t. if some idiot wants to complain they can talk to me.

    I wanted to reply “I won’t treat you like a high school student when you cease to behave like one.” But I can’t do things like that. I didn’t have to get involved, fortunately. The smart kid earned a “D.” But then, he worked for that “D.”

    Not.

    Sigh.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  88. DRJ, it is a surprisingly insightful book. The website I posted is good for a chuckle, too.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  89. Eh, that really was a healthy disagreement. I stand by the statement: anything that you wish to be untrue on this site is labeled a ‘lie’.

    PS: Thanks for digging that up, DRJ

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  90. No, you were NOT “ding the healthy disagreement” thing. You were blindly spouting idiocy you read on DKos and heard on Olbermann, and when confronted with actual facts and reason, you got shrill and more pig-headed.

    Is this not an attack? This seems like a double standard to me.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  91. “Is this not an attack? This seems like a double standard to me.”

    tnj – Sounds merely like a rehash of your initial visit to this blog, not an attack. What part of it is an attack or untrue?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  92. Well, I would take issue with the ‘actual facts and reason’ part. I don’t think either party or either ideology for that matter has a monopoly on reason.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  93. anything that you wish to be untrue on this site is labeled a ‘lie’.

    No, anything not backed up by FACTS, specifically, things that are contradicted by facts, are lies. WANTING something to be true or a lie does not make it so. FACTS are what determine what is truth, and what is not truth.

    I know it is a strange concept for you, but it is actually how the world works.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  94. But evidently you won’t bother to deny you got owned.

    Not that you had any credibility left, but it is hilarious to watch you try to convince yourself differently.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  95. #94 being addressed to TMJ.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  96. Comment by truthnjustice — 12/15/2008 @ 9:45 pm

    Also, during “honest discagreement”, when one makes a statement they then attempt to pass of as truth, it is important for that person – the one making the claim – to supply a citation to back up the claim. It is not the duty of others to supply links proving or disproving anything you or someone else might say unless they wish to do so. You should take it upon yourself – if you were truly interested in “honest disagreement” – to prove what you say.

    You have yet to do so. The one time you tried, your link actually failed to prove your side, and was technically a supporting bit for that which you claimed was a lie. You ended up actually supporting the WRONG SIDE of the disagreement.

    And yet you stubbornly went along like you were so bloody right… And then you wondered why we respected not a word you uttered since.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  97. Not that you had any credibility left, but it is hilarious to watch you try to convince yourself differently.

    I know who he reminds me of…

    Rimmer from Red Dwarf…

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  98. Eric, a friend of my wife is running the nursing program at the local community college and she has been pressured to dumb down the requirements too.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  99. Scott, I will reserve the obvious comment regarding your Red Dwarf reference.

    SPQR, I am sorry about what your wife is going through. Colleges are not money machines; they are training machines. Imagine if someone ran an institute for firefighters that refused to do any physical training? Or eliminated first aid classes? Or simply reduced requirements? Sigh.

    As for Trolly, I loved going over DRJ’s reference to its first few posts. Looking at post #11, he starts out mildly rude. #16, he gets snotty. #23, we see profanity.

    You betcha. It is sure the kindly hearted aggrieved party.

    I see this with students all the time. The progression is:

    1. So and so robbed me of ten points on that exam!
    2. Yeah, well, I scored two sigmas below the class average on the exam, but he didn’t read my handwriting correctly.
    3. Sure, the instructions said “legible,” but my handwriting is legible to me. That’s his problem.
    4. I don’t have to prove I know the answer. That was what the test was for. I was robbed. And I don’t have a copy of my exam, no. Why should I?
    5. I have to go to the academic standards committee to review my poor grades to determine if I am to be dismissed for a term.

    Sometimes, they vacillate between stages 1 – 4 for a long, long time.

    The point is that the troll claimed one thing, and DRJ proved it wrong.

    Sigh. I’m thinking freshman now. I really don’t buy the high school teacher thing.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  100. No, anything not backed up by FACTS, specifically, things that are contradicted by facts, are lies. WANTING something to be true or a lie does not make it so. FACTS are what determine what is truth, and what is not truth.

    That is remarkably similar to my first post on this site. Glad we can agree on something.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  101. Comment by Eric Blair — 12/15/2008 @ 10:11 pm

    Who is being an @ss now?

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  102. tnj – Didn’t you also claim for a period that your purpose here was to expose hypocrisy, the hypocrisy of the right? How’s that working out?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  103. Not to mention, if you look at my first post on here (ah, the memories), then look at the very first counterpost-

    #11: Mccain voted against a deadline for leaving Iraq. Sleazy democrats attached that to the troop funding so they could attack anyone wanting a surge strategy of not funding the troops. These sleazes knew someone like you would refuse to accept reality.

    Mccain was always for funding the troops, and no one who is honest would ever claim otherwise. Obama was opposed to it. Period.

    Comment by Juan — 10/3/2008 @ 3:36 pm

    There you go. Gets nasty pretty quickly.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  104. You really are a college kid, aren’t you? Go get some sleep. Classes start early tomorrow.

    If you are a high school teacher, you should be ashamed of yourself.

    Teacher or student, you are nothing but a troll, trying to act tough and full of righteousness, but you are full of something else entirely.

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  105. It is exam week. I don’t have to be up early. :-)

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  106. Still looking for that hand lotion, apparently.

    Dmac (e30284)

  107. A nominee for the Wanker Hall of Fame!

    Another Drew (64fe9d)

  108. Dmac, I thought we were going to try respectful debate. Explain how that comment fits into that theme.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  109. It has been defenestrated, deloused and pantsed, yet still clings to a denuded shred of self – respect.

    Dmac (e30284)

  110. Its the constant projection that amuses me.

    SPQR (72771e)

  111. That is why I think it is some kind of obscure performance art. The character can’t be unaware that he objects to behavior that he exhibits.

    On the other, hand, there is always Coyote’s Law:

    http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2004/11/update_on_meyer.html

    Eric Blair (8ed172)

  112. I haven’t written anything in this thread.

    But TNJ is still arguing with me. Kinda cute.

    I won’t pretend to be extremely civil, but the quote of mine up there ‘nasty’ is ridiculous. I made some claims about legislation that are easily verifiable. I made claims about Obama and Mccain’s support for troop funding and made a banal observation: that bad things are attached to bills in such a way as to force opponents to oppose popular ideas.

    Nothing nasty about that. I am sure you can a less polite example of a Juan comment if you take 10 more seconds to look, TNJ. I notice you never bothered to explain why I was wrong, or even explain what was nasty about anything I said. You just assert you’re right, and that’s it. Exactly like love2008 and a few others. I guess it’s possible that you are different people, but you share some lame features.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  113. tnj is a remarkable, living example of the successes of the public education system.
    And, just think, one of these days, if it works real hard, it might graduate from High School;
    or, they’ll hand him a Diploma just to be rid of him?
    Another milestone in the incredible journey of the Self-Esteem Movement.

    Another Drew (64fe9d)

  114. It has been defenestrated, deloused and pantsed, yet still clings to a denuded shred of self – respect.

    Comment by Dmac — 12/16/2008 @ 1:02 pm

    It uses the same phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, yet it still pretends to be fresh.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  115. Comment by Juan — 12/16/2008 @ 2:06 pm

    Actually if you would have used the same 10 seconds you would find a link to a story.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  116. I think the Self Esteem movement is part of the problem. Confidence does not equal anything. It’s completely meaningless. Yet all these internet personas feel entitled to respect when all they are is their text. They don’t bother making more than a cursory argument, rarely, insist others are wrong, and demand respect.

    Why don’t they realize that what they are doing is irrational?

    I would have understood, hell I would have laughed if TNJ had noted that half my posts are incomprehensible because of my typos (I have a good excuse). But bringing up a comment that is unrelated to this thread, from a person who hasn’t typed a word in it, to prove a point about people in this thread who don’t know me from Adam, and insisting that means TNJ deserves more respect, is so weak I’m wasting my time be pointing it out.

    TNJ is so outraged at ‘us’ that he comes here throughout the day when he should be preparing for his exams or sleeping… but he isn’t outraged enough to articulate why we’re wrong. He must be extremely arrogant or deluded to think all he has to do is repeat his conclusion, that we’re nasty wrong and awful.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  117. I am not outraged.

    I brought you into the discussion as an example of how nasty and disrespectful the fellow posters were right from the start. Since your standards of social behavior must include some sort of pass for degrading people you do not share my opinion of your post, but that is not really my problem… I think it is more of yours.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  118. Didn’t we tell you to find a new vocab word?

    It uses the same phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, yet it still pretends to be fresh.

    Comment by truthnjustice — 12/16/2008 @ 2:17 pm

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  119. “#11: Mccain voted against a deadline for leaving Iraq. Sleazy democrats attached that to the troop funding so they could attack anyone wanting a surge strategy of not funding the troops. These sleazes knew someone like you would refuse to accept reality.

    Mccain was always for funding the troops, and no one who is honest would ever claim otherwise. Obama was opposed to it. Period.”

    TNJ, that isn’t nasty. The democrats who took those actions are abhorrent people. Playing with lives like that for political gain is wrong.

    You’re the one insulting me, not vice versa. I wasn’t replying to you or even referring to you. You have failed to dispute any aspect of my comment because I am right. You have failed to note how I insulted you because I did not.

    You have insulted me in your attempt to prove I am insulting you, and you can’t even admit that that comment had nothing to say about you.

    How odd. But it’s also pretty obvious that you are attempting to destroy this thread. Patterico.com trolls almost always pull a wierd stunt to derail the thread. You have plenty of material in this thread to discuss, but pull comments from other threads that are unrelated.

    Why? I think because you wanted to make sure the thread became disorganized. Why did you chose a post from me? Because I wasn’t involved in this thread at all, and you wanted to attack someone who wasn’t present.

    Well, I happened upon the thread, and I’ll let me argument speak for itself. Your argument is simply ‘I’m right! YAY!!!’

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  120. TMJ writes:

    “..Didn’t we tell you to find a new vocab word?…”

    We“? Time to cue up the DSM.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  121. EB-Projection.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  122. Are you seriously trying out the “well, you are another” type of response? This is yet another reason why we (and I do mean “we”, as opposed to your own…um…conception of reality) think you are not a high school teacher, and have only a very sketchy science background.

    However, as a troll, you have mad skillz.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  123. Comment by Eric Blair — 12/16/2008 @ 5:17 pm
    It is unfortunate that The One forewent public financing for his campaign, or else we could have been the beneficiaries of a comprehensive audit of his expenditures via the FEC.
    It would be interesting to know how much money the campaign spent on the transportation and housing of the Obama girls for the last two years?

    Another Drew (64fe9d)

  124. Comment by Another Drew — 12/16/2008 @ 5:46 pm

    Posted here by mistake…
    Should have been posted on the NYS Budget thread.

    Another Drew (64fe9d)

  125. you have mad skillz.

    Comment by Eric Blair — 12/16/2008 @ 5:17 pm

    Thanks!

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  126. My but there’s an awful lot of folks here with nothing better to do. Give it a rest already.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)


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