were I to bring soldiers into a discussion about the wrongness of the war, the point I would be making would probably be one of the following two points: the goal we are seeking to achieve is not worth the sacrifice we would ask soldiers to make to achieve it or the plan we have to achieve this goal is not sufficiently likely to succeed as to be worth asking soldiers to sacrifice their lives in order to attempt it.

Both of these arguments are, I think, appropriate to make in advance of a decision to go to war.

Absolutely!

Note that in all of these the key issue is not the sacrifice, because that sacrifice is something we expect of the military, and it is to be honored whenever it is freely given; the key issue is the necessity. We owe it to those who sacrifice not to ask for that sacrifice without due cause.

Total agreement.

[None of this should be taken as a comment on any specific sacrifice; I am discussing a general philosophy rather than trying to apply it to a specific case ... and this is the philosophy that I think is the common one among the military-friendly left.]

And I believe shared by most.

This all got started with “estimated” numbers. Your framework for an honest and logical argument, without showing disrespect to those “not counted” – that is exactly what I was trying to say. Aphrael, your precision is far better than my clumsy efforts. Thank you.

Both of these arguments are, I think, appropriate to make in advance of a decision to go to war.

I might also make an argument along the lines of this politician made decisions which caused soldiers to sacrifice their lives unnecessarily.

Note that in all of these the key issue is not the sacrifice, because that sacrifice is something we expect of the military, and it is to be honored whenever it is freely given; the key issue is the necessity. We owe it to those who sacrifice not to ask for that sacrifice without due cause.

[None of this should be taken as a comment on any specific sacrifice; I am discussing a general philosophy rather than trying to apply it to a specific case ... and this is the philosophy that I think is the common one among the military-friendly left.]

Congrats. You live in a college town. What is with Ohio and its production of sniveling little wads? First jharp and now this meaningless juvenile clown tnj.

Comment by Jack Klompus — 12/12/2008 @ 12:45 pm

Um… nope. Maybe you should carefully examine the population of Columbus and the enrollment rates of its colleges. Let me guess… you don’t work for the census bureau?

Scott: I am not going to justify myself to you, and writing a dissertation to a random blog user seems like a waste of my time. If you had a specific question I would be happy to answer it to the best of my ability.

But this cuts both ways; it means both that we should refrain from using the military in times and places where we do not need to, and that once we have committed to using it, we must do everything we can to ensure that the outcome of using it is successful, and that the objectives behind the use of the military are achieved. Anything else means our soldiers have sacrificed unnecessarily.

You may be right; I think it depends on distribution. Which is to say, if a thousand companies all have one employee take the same vacation day off for a cause, then the cause is benefitted and the cost to employers is distributed in such a way as to be basically lost in the noise. If, on the other hand, one hundred companies all have ten employees take the same vacation day off for a cause …. although even then there can be some cost; one reason I didn’t ask for Wednesday as a vacation day is that the cost to my team, and the projects I’m responsible for, would have been too high.

I would add, though, that one reason I approve of taking vacation days more than sick days is that my taking a vacation day for a cause imposes a cost not just on my employer, but also on me; vacation days are a limited commodity … and if i’m going to impose some sort of cost on my employer by not being there, I should be willing to impose a cost on myself, as well.

It is a waste of time.

Of course it is. I realize how difficult it must be to demonstrate a knowledge base you falsely claim to possess.

My apologies.