(I live in a UAW (John Deere) town)

And I would imagine that if the bailout occurs you will see more people who will refuse to buy a big 3 car.

Which would, ironically, require further bailouts to keep them afloat…

I buy a car first and foremost quality and reliability. I take great pleasure in knowing that the unions tend to suffer as a result.
And I would imagine that if the bailout occurs you will see more people who will refuse to buy a big 3 car.

You’re all about getting the industry to break its promises NOW when the workers will be left up shit creek.

I shold point out that only NOW is it shit creek. They have been living the HIGH life for WAY too long, They make INSNAE amounts of money plus have stellar benefits.

It’s high time they learn how the rest of us live.

Whatever benefits are being given, no mater how absurd you think they are (i.e. these crazy-sounding “job banks”), they were promised by the auto companies, in order to keep these workers in the auto industry.

Actually Phil, a LOT of UAW contracts hinge upon the fact that if negotiations break down, Congress gets involved. The insane demands that the UAW doesn’t back off of end up causing a breakdown, and Congress (to the extreme benifits of the Dems) says “No, you will accept these, Big Three. You make so much money, you can afford it.”

I am intimately familiar with AUW and Catapillar negotiations (or as much as one ouside the company can be). You will hear, at negotiation time, union employees bitching about “CAT made so much money! That’s our money!”

No. It isn’t. Your money came in your paychecks. If CAT has a bad year (which it looks to be, since CAT just let go all it’s contract employees), will those “it’s our money” people give money BACK? Take a pay cut?

No. CAT will be stuck paying the same inflated wages and benefits they were forced to pay during the good years.

And that is where Unions fail. The force companies into situations where a few bad years will destroy them. That doesn’t benefit the Union, in the long run, because it costs jobs. If unions actually cared about the workers, they wouldn’t be anywhere near as greedy as they are.

As has been said, this is a Union bailout, because without the Unions, this wouldn’t even be an issue.

Let them fail. Crush the UAW like Reagan broke the Copper union and the Air Traffic Controller unions.

You realize there are non-union people that will be left up shit creek too, right Phil?
People that never really had promises other than as long as things were mutually beneficial, they’d have a working relationship. Why should a unionized person be so different? Are they more valuable?

Whatever benefits are being given, no mater how absurd you think they are (i.e. these crazy-sounding “job banks”), they were promised by the auto companies, in order to keep these workers in the auto industry.

Please remember, Phil, that the auto companies by law have to negotiate with the UAW. They can only have UAW hourly workers. If the UAW strikes, the automakers can’t hire non-union people to keep them in business. If the UAW refuses their terms, they can’t operate.
So it isn’t really that the auto companies so very badly wanted to keep these particular workers in the auto industry. They legally had to keep these workers in the auto industry.

Actually, the American consumer has been very vocal about what they consider the waste and ineffeciencies in “Detroit” by the increasing share of the North American auto market taken by foreign nameplates year after year.

I remember as a teen-ager when Chevrolet had 25% of the market all by themselves, and politicians in DC were rumbling about needing to break-up GM, which had a total market share (NA only) of 52%. Detroit, through its’ desire to buy “labor peace”, pissed it all away with overly generous labor agreements, and an arrogant attitude as to what its’ customers wanted in an automobile – and this was before DC got involved with safety, emissions, and mileage requirements.

Now, they want the taxpayer to bail them out from their own foolishness.
Well, it just isn’t going to fly!

Corporations can’t break promises at will. Parties to a contract can be in breach of contract but the breaching party can be sued when that happens, and there are some lawyers who will help aggrieved parties sue on a contingency basis. In addition, unions have lawyers on staff/retainer that represent members who claim they have been wrongfully terminated, suspended or demoted.

There can also be legal modifications of contracts in certain circumstances, such as in a bankruptcy.