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	<title>Comments on: No Auto Industry Bailout</title>
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	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: JimT</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-433753</link>
		<dc:creator>JimT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-433753</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;NO Bailout&lt;/b&gt;, let them go bankrupt and flush this country of Unions.  Unions are killing our country. UAW is the root of evil in this country and this is a chance to fix it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>NO Bailout</b>, let them go bankrupt and flush this country of Unions.  Unions are killing our country. UAW is the root of evil in this country and this is a chance to fix it!</p>
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		<title>By: daleyrocks</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-428804</link>
		<dc:creator>daleyrocks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 03:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-428804</guid>
		<description>&quot;Also, the automobile industry can retool itself to make public transportation&quot;

Amalio - Would there be any guarantee they could make public tranportation products more efficiently, better, or cheaply than firms already in that business?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Also, the automobile industry can retool itself to make public transportation&#8221;</p>
<p>Amalio &#8211; Would there be any guarantee they could make public tranportation products more efficiently, better, or cheaply than firms already in that business?</p>
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		<title>By: SPQR</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-428803</link>
		<dc:creator>SPQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 02:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-428803</guid>
		<description>Amalio, per capita mass transit ridership has been declining over the past decades despite massive spending in places like Los Angeles.  In fact, the MTA in Southern California is a great example of what a boondoggle mass transit is.  The MTA spends more than half its operations ( and  budget on heavy rail and subway projects that actually serve less than 10% of their total ridership - and that subsidizes the wealthy suburban commuter thousands of dollars per rider annually.  And have cost local and national taxpayers many billions in construction costs.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.publicpurpose.com/pp65-lacount.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;All while failing to get more than a fraction of projected ridership&lt;/a&gt;.

Meanwhile, traffic congestion increases and so does air pollution in the LA basin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amalio, per capita mass transit ridership has been declining over the past decades despite massive spending in places like Los Angeles.  In fact, the MTA in Southern California is a great example of what a boondoggle mass transit is.  The MTA spends more than half its operations ( and  budget on heavy rail and subway projects that actually serve less than 10% of their total ridership &#8211; and that subsidizes the wealthy suburban commuter thousands of dollars per rider annually.  And have cost local and national taxpayers many billions in construction costs.  <a href="http://www.publicpurpose.com/pp65-lacount.htm" rel="nofollow">All while failing to get more than a fraction of projected ridership</a>.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, traffic congestion increases and so does air pollution in the LA basin.</p>
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		<title>By: Amalio Escobar</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-428801</link>
		<dc:creator>Amalio Escobar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 02:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-428801</guid>
		<description>SPQR - I would like to get the studies that back up your claim that public transportation does not ease traffic or ameliorate pollution.  Also, the automobile industry can retool itself to make public transportation, it did retool itself to make tanks during the war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPQR &#8211; I would like to get the studies that back up your claim that public transportation does not ease traffic or ameliorate pollution.  Also, the automobile industry can retool itself to make public transportation, it did retool itself to make tanks during the war.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-426430</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-426430</guid>
		<description>Obama needs to put a stop to the handouts for people who made their beds. this is something that could have been avoided with better management practices, but the Great One will probably bow to the UAW pressure and sign his leftist illuminati signature to the bailout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama needs to put a stop to the handouts for people who made their beds. this is something that could have been avoided with better management practices, but the Great One will probably bow to the UAW pressure and sign his leftist illuminati signature to the bailout.</p>
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		<title>By: jpm100</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-426282</link>
		<dc:creator>jpm100</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-426282</guid>
		<description>Bankruptcies for the American electronics industry did wonders to rejuvenate that industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bankruptcies for the American electronics industry did wonders to rejuvenate that industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Drew</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-426192</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-426192</guid>
		<description>&quot;...&lt;i&gt;it produces a shoddy, polluting, gas guzzling product at noncompetitive prices driven by trade union benefit packages...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Many of the vehicles produced in Detroit lead the quality rankings every year.

All vehicles sold in the U.S. must meet the pollution standards set by the EPA.  A Cadillac must meet the same standard as a M-B S-class; a Chevy Malibu meets the same standard as a Honda Accord.

&lt;b&gt;C&lt;/b&gt;orporate &lt;b&gt;A&lt;/b&gt;verage &lt;b&gt;F&lt;/b&gt;uel &lt;b&gt;E&lt;/b&gt;conomy...all manufacturer&#039;s, foreign and domestic, must meet CAFE standards under pretty stiff monetary penalties.

The great misunderstanding is over SUV&#039;s, which are used as cars by the buying public, but which have always been treated as light-duty trucks (upon which they are based) by the government regulators.
There are several things that explain the popularity of SUV&#039;s:
1- The downsizing of vehicles in the 80&#039;s brought a realization among the car-buying public that size does matter.  In a crash, the small-car always loses (ATBE).
2- The luxury-taxes of the late-80&#039;s restricted the ability of businesses to write-off the costs of luxury cars (at that time you couldn&#039;t write-off anything over $30K), but put no restriction on commercial (including light-duty) trucks.  This brought an explosion of the luxing of trucks starting with the Suburban (begetting the Tahoe, Escalade, Explorer, Excursion, Navigator, etc).
This allowed the self-employed, among others, to have a nice ride, even a &quot;performance&quot; ride, and still get to write it off as a business expense (and even one for his wife too, as long as he had her listed as an officer in the company).
3- Trucks also, have a different CAFE standard than do passenger vehicles (cars).  This is because of the nature of the beast.  These vehicles are designed to haul stuff - large amounts of it in some cases.  BTW, who do you call when you need to move a refrigerator?  Your brother with the 3/4-ton pick-up, or your aunt with the Prius?
4- And, that is another reason why they are wide-spread - people like having something they can load the entire family into for a vacation, and hitch the boat to the back for that week on the river.

Prices....If Detroit can un-load these uncompetitive labor agreements, you will not see any lowering of prices.  What you will see in an increase in the profitability of the corporations that build these vehicles.  
Who knows, they actually might start reporting a profit, instead of the mind-boggling, multi-Billion $ losses they have been having.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;<i>it produces a shoddy, polluting, gas guzzling product at noncompetitive prices driven by trade union benefit packages&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Many of the vehicles produced in Detroit lead the quality rankings every year.</p>
<p>All vehicles sold in the U.S. must meet the pollution standards set by the EPA.  A Cadillac must meet the same standard as a M-B S-class; a Chevy Malibu meets the same standard as a Honda Accord.</p>
<p><b>C</b>orporate <b>A</b>verage <b>F</b>uel <b>E</b>conomy&#8230;all manufacturer&#8217;s, foreign and domestic, must meet CAFE standards under pretty stiff monetary penalties.</p>
<p>The great misunderstanding is over SUV&#8217;s, which are used as cars by the buying public, but which have always been treated as light-duty trucks (upon which they are based) by the government regulators.<br />
There are several things that explain the popularity of SUV&#8217;s:<br />
1- The downsizing of vehicles in the 80&#8217;s brought a realization among the car-buying public that size does matter.  In a crash, the small-car always loses (ATBE).<br />
2- The luxury-taxes of the late-80&#8217;s restricted the ability of businesses to write-off the costs of luxury cars (at that time you couldn&#8217;t write-off anything over $30K), but put no restriction on commercial (including light-duty) trucks.  This brought an explosion of the luxing of trucks starting with the Suburban (begetting the Tahoe, Escalade, Explorer, Excursion, Navigator, etc).<br />
This allowed the self-employed, among others, to have a nice ride, even a &#8220;performance&#8221; ride, and still get to write it off as a business expense (and even one for his wife too, as long as he had her listed as an officer in the company).<br />
3- Trucks also, have a different CAFE standard than do passenger vehicles (cars).  This is because of the nature of the beast.  These vehicles are designed to haul stuff &#8211; large amounts of it in some cases.  BTW, who do you call when you need to move a refrigerator?  Your brother with the 3/4-ton pick-up, or your aunt with the Prius?<br />
4- And, that is another reason why they are wide-spread &#8211; people like having something they can load the entire family into for a vacation, and hitch the boat to the back for that week on the river.</p>
<p>Prices&#8230;.If Detroit can un-load these uncompetitive labor agreements, you will not see any lowering of prices.  What you will see in an increase in the profitability of the corporations that build these vehicles.<br />
Who knows, they actually might start reporting a profit, instead of the mind-boggling, multi-Billion $ losses they have been having.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly201</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-426182</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly201</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-426182</guid>
		<description>Petition Congress:

http://www.rallycongress.com/no-bailout-for-the-auto-industry/1409/

NO BAILOUT FOR THE AUTO INDUSTRY
Nancy Pelosi, with the help of Barney Frank, wants to bail out yet another failed sector of the economy. It is not government’s role to reward incompetent, overpaid executives pursuing a failed and anachronistic business model. The American auto industry is in trouble because it produces a shoddy, polluting, gas guzzling product at noncompetitive prices driven by trade union benefit packages. It is a waste of taxpayer money to try to shore up an industry that needs to be radically restructured. The Big Three should be allowed to fail and file for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code. They will not cease to exist, but will be restructured under the supervision of the bankruptcy courts. Congress cannot do a better job than the courts. The courts will supervise the reorganization of the industry without being tempted to reward lobbyists, campaign contributors and unions for their political and financial support. 
Congress must allow the economy, existing laws and judicial bodies to resolve the Big Three’s financial problems and not throw more taxpayer money away under a hasty and ill conceived bailout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Petition Congress:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rallycongress.com/no-bailout-for-the-auto-industry/1409/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rallycongress.com/no-bailout-for-the-auto-industry/1409/</a></p>
<p>NO BAILOUT FOR THE AUTO INDUSTRY<br />
Nancy Pelosi, with the help of Barney Frank, wants to bail out yet another failed sector of the economy. It is not government’s role to reward incompetent, overpaid executives pursuing a failed and anachronistic business model. The American auto industry is in trouble because it produces a shoddy, polluting, gas guzzling product at noncompetitive prices driven by trade union benefit packages. It is a waste of taxpayer money to try to shore up an industry that needs to be radically restructured. The Big Three should be allowed to fail and file for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code. They will not cease to exist, but will be restructured under the supervision of the bankruptcy courts. Congress cannot do a better job than the courts. The courts will supervise the reorganization of the industry without being tempted to reward lobbyists, campaign contributors and unions for their political and financial support.<br />
Congress must allow the economy, existing laws and judicial bodies to resolve the Big Three’s financial problems and not throw more taxpayer money away under a hasty and ill conceived bailout.</p>
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		<title>By: Cori</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-3/#comment-426117</link>
		<dc:creator>Cori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-426117</guid>
		<description>Should we &quot;bail out&quot; The Big Three? Absolutely not! They&#039;ve been in bed with Big Oil for decades now. If one morning you wake up in bed and look over at your spouse and realize they are unreliable, ugly and self serving...you go to counseling! You pay for it out of &lt;b&gt;your&lt;/b&gt; pocket. There ya go Big Three, ask your bed-mate for some cash. It&#039;s worked for married couples across America since her birth! Then, if The Big Three want to keep spitting out cars that suck fuel, eat away at consumer confidence, and can&#039;t compete, America will find a sweeter, younger, prettier mistress to court. My analogy is true and tried. That&#039;s capitalism! The Airline industry made it through tough times, even post-bankruptcy. Let a non American (or NEW American) car maker open up plants here, giving GM, Ford and Crysler time to enjoy their bankruptcy and reformat in an ethical, earth-friendly, economically sound entity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should we &#8220;bail out&#8221; The Big Three? Absolutely not! They&#8217;ve been in bed with Big Oil for decades now. If one morning you wake up in bed and look over at your spouse and realize they are unreliable, ugly and self serving&#8230;you go to counseling! You pay for it out of <b>your</b> pocket. There ya go Big Three, ask your bed-mate for some cash. It&#8217;s worked for married couples across America since her birth! Then, if The Big Three want to keep spitting out cars that suck fuel, eat away at consumer confidence, and can&#8217;t compete, America will find a sweeter, younger, prettier mistress to court. My analogy is true and tried. That&#8217;s capitalism! The Airline industry made it through tough times, even post-bankruptcy. Let a non American (or NEW American) car maker open up plants here, giving GM, Ford and Crysler time to enjoy their bankruptcy and reformat in an ethical, earth-friendly, economically sound entity.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchell Young</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/11/17/no-auto-industry-bailout/comment-page-2/#comment-426019</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=17737#comment-426019</guid>
		<description>People are acting as if this is 1979 and Detroit is turning out land yachts. It isn&#039;t. Over the last two decades it innovated. How short your memories are! Five years ago, 3 years ago, it was the shizzet to have an Escalade. Now everyone wants Priuses. Detroit, given some backing, can retool. Think Chrysler in the 1980s -- Lee Iacocca, etc.

BTW, I know that Ford at least makes fine, compact, hi mileage cars. I know this from cruising on the autobahn in a&lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safari&amp;rls=en&amp;q=Ford+KA&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;um=1&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=video_result_group&amp;resnum=4&amp;ct=title#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Ka&lt;/a&gt; [youtube movie for a year or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People are acting as if this is 1979 and Detroit is turning out land yachts. It isn&#8217;t. Over the last two decades it innovated. How short your memories are! Five years ago, 3 years ago, it was the shizzet to have an Escalade. Now everyone wants Priuses. Detroit, given some backing, can retool. Think Chrysler in the 1980s &#8212; Lee Iacocca, etc.</p>
<p>BTW, I know that Ford at least makes fine, compact, hi mileage cars. I know this from cruising on the autobahn in a<a href="http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safari&amp;rls=en&amp;q=Ford+KA&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;um=1&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=video_result_group&amp;resnum=4&amp;ct=title#" rel="nofollow"> Ka</a> [youtube movie for a year or so.</p>
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