Patterico's Pontifications

A pardon for Rezko within 12 months.

Joe - Dallas (d7c430) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:21 am

Predictions?

IMO the election process will not be over tonight. Nor for several days at least.

no one you know (1f5ddb) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:25 am

The presidential race will be close (within 30 EV) no matter who wins. (The smart money is on Obama, but since I’m stubborn and placed my bet on McCain long ago, I’m foolishly going to let it ride.) Dems pick up 5 in the senate, and 15 in the House. The stock market rallies no matter who wins the presidency.

BNJ (e1defa) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:26 am

I predict four-plus years of hangovers, starting tomorrow.

Dan Collins (4dc2da) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:28 am

Obama 311, McCain 227.

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:31 am

I’ll have the fish….

EricPWJohnson (500258) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:34 am

McCain by a clear majority in both the electoral and popular vote. Riots in Chicago, Detroit and LA.

nk (95bfab) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:37 am

… a disaster of biblical proportions… Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes… The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!

stevesturm (369bc6) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:38 am

[Mr. T]

Prediction?

Pain!

[/Mr. T]

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:39 am

Pelosi’s House sans Murtha.

semi-one - TX (e6901d) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:44 am

McCain. “Better the devil you know.”

m (9401dc) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:48 am

Obama – 284

This election is going to be a fiasco though. I just got done voting, and the Team Baracky lawyer at our precinct was complaining about the lines and demanding that people be supplied with paper ballots, and that the wait was disenfranchising people. Apparently, he thought I was sympathetic or a fellow traveler.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:57 am

McCain/Palin will win by a larger margin the 00 or 04, I want it to be a landslide so I would know my fellow Americans don’t like socialist and higher taxes in a recession

If McCain/Palin wins I think Joe the plumber will get credit for it.

P.S.
Obama Staffer Spreads the Wealth Around… Registers in 3 States- Votes in 2

ML (14488c) — 11/4/2008 @ 6:59 am

OK, seriously.

Murtha loses. It is amongst the brightest spots of the day for conservatives.

Norm Coleman defeats Stuart Smalley.

Marsha Blackburn wins…really going out on a limb there.

McCain/Obama? No idea, Obama’s certainly had pretty much everything on his side but McCain had momentum at the end. Is it enough? I want it to be but I’m not confident. If McCain wins, it’s gonna be an electoral squeeker.

I’m not sure if “President Obama” is more depressing-sounding than “Vice President Biden” but they’re both pretty grim.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:00 am

Many long years in the wilderness.

Old Coot (8a493c) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:01 am

Palin sitting as President of the Senate.

Obamatrons wailing about “stolen election” (not the Acorn part, of course)? undoubtedly…..

Prop 8? fail.

the morons here in CA still approving more bonds & higher taxes? but of course.

Murtha beaten? i’m not a religious man, but please gods, yes.

redc1c4 (27fd3e) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:02 am

At least biden is no longer on the judiciary committee

Joe - Dallas (d7c430) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:03 am

ML – Voter fraud is not real.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:04 am

Spending the next four years grimacing at the stupid and boneheaded moves – in economics, tax policy, foreign policy and judicial appointments – taken by our next President.

At least I have had plenty of practice, as I’ve spent the last four years doing the very same thing.

stevesturm (369bc6) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:05 am

JD
You are correct, (D)’s are like Palestinians now and the (R)’s are their Jewish masters, they don’t have a choice but to commit fraud.

ML (14488c) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:09 am

Obama 52.4% of the total electoral vote, 329 electors.

–JRM

JRM (355c21) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:10 am

stevesturm – What was the matter with Roberts and Alito?

ML – I hope you realize that I was being incredibly tongue-in-cheek.

Why do these people not get prosecuted?

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:18 am

For the record, if I happen to be close and people wonder how I got close, my map is almost exactly like Allahundits, except for Ohio and Florida. Flip the red Ohio to blue and the blue Florida to red, and that’s the difference between my Obama 311, McCain 227 prediction above and Allahpundit’s 318 Obama, 220 McCain map.

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:20 am

JD: while there was nothing wrong with Alito and Roberts, Bush’s record on judges is pretty lame. He never tried to force the Democrats to hold a vote on the nominations they were sitting on. And his nominating Miers makes me question his whole approach: anyone who could think she was fit and right for the Court is obviously mixed up in the head and thus capable of making similarly screwed up nominations for lower court positions.

stevesturm (369bc6) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:22 am

We shall go on to the end,
we shall fight in California,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air,
we shall defend our nation, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills;
We shall never surrender.

McCain 291.

Official Internet Data Office (df6254) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:24 am

steve – fair enough.

OIDO – I wish I shared your optimism.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:31 am

Barack Obama will win, and George W Bush will do something spectacular, necessary, and unpopular before he leaves office, knowing Obama won’t do it.

MayBee (37070f) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:33 am

Superfly’ s dirt will catch up with him. The media turned on the Clintons. They’ll turn on him, too.

Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:36 am

I’m not happy about it but I expect an Obama win. He’s the one with the enthusiastic support of his party, the domestic media, the international media, George Soros, Bill Ayres, the faculty, staff, and students at colleges and universities around the globe, Africa, Europe, South America, Canada, Russia, North Korea, Arab Terrorists, the ChiComs, Socialists and Communists everywhere, Hollywood, New York, Chicago, Honolulu, welfare recipients, inmates, bums, cheats, footpads, fraudulent voters, deadbeats, labor unions, limousine liberals, old women, basketball players, jackasses, thieves, liars, crooks, crazy preachers, political grafters, drug dealers, ignorant fools, African Americans, and stupid white folks.

John McCain has the old dogs of the GOP and everyone who likes Sarah Palin. He’s also got the shooters, the Sunday School crowd, and the coal miners who can read. Other than that the pickings are pretty slim.

Ropelight (1c7bd1) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:38 am

My prediction: If Barack Obama wins this, he will be such an unpopular president that Republicans will dominate elections from 2012-2020.

My prediction: polls stay open LATE in Philadelphia as god-knows-what happens behind the scenes.

Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:38 am

MayBee 27: Bush checked out about a year ago, he’s looking forward to inauguration day as much as anyone.

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:39 am

Do not let the size of the lines stop you. Make extra time… don’t turn back.

Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:39 am

JD
I got the tongue and cheek.

I don’t know why they don’t get prosecuted for the fraud, I think maybe because the MSM tends to protect liberals.

ML (14488c) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:43 am

Ropelite 29: footpads? Who actually uses that word since Queen Victoria died?

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:44 am

Bush is looking forward to inauguration day, I agree. But he knows what this country is up against, and he knows Obama isn’t going to do what he has to do.

Remember how Clinton didn’t do anything about the USS Cole because he was leaving office? Bush is not that guy.

MayBee (37070f) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:48 am

Barack Obama will win, and George W Bush will do something spectacular, necessary, and unpopular before he leaves office, knowing Obama won’t do it.
If Obama wins I’d expect some kind of a massive, joint Israeli/US strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities within a month.

Catbert077 (ffcc28) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:49 am

MayBee and Catbert077, I am not Bush’s biggest fan by a long shot but I suspect he respects democracy and tradition enough to understand the role of a lame duck President and the importance of smoothing the transition to a new administration. I think he’s thinking about his legacy now and not new adventures, and the best thing he can do for his legacy now is manage a graceful transition without piling up new issues on the next President.

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:56 am

McCain will win. The undecideds and the borderline-PUMAs will break in his favor. And the silent majority who’ve been avoiding confrontation by nodding politely about Obama will vote their consciences.

One other thing. I like Allahpundit and value his analysis, but he’s been a real Gloomy Gus ever since the primaries. Saying “and he even admits that it will probably be worse” implies that he previously thought things would be better, which I don’t think ever happened. He’s been expecting Obama to win for months now.

Bryan C (026a8d) — 11/4/2008 @ 7:58 am

Oh, and no matter where you live or when you go to the polls, your vote for McCain still matters. So please vote. Maryland will go blue like it always does (Baltimore pulled some of the highest ratings in the country for Obama’s Very Special Episode) but I’m still going to cast my vote after work no matter what the early returns say.

Bryan C (026a8d) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:04 am

I think he’s thinking about his legacy now and not new adventures, and the best thing he can do for his legacy now is manage a graceful transition without piling up new issues on the next President.

I’m just making a guess, aplomb.
I don’t think Bush has any intention of piing up new issues on the next President. The world doesn’t operate in 4 year cycles, though, and there are continuing issues out there for the new President.
I think Bush will take care of some old business.

That’s just my guess. But then, I think O has no spine and everyone knows it. Bush will be taking care of him, not causing trouble for him.

MayBee (37070f) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:06 am

Aplomb

if you think GW is sitting on his hands, then the forays into Pakistan and Syria are just illusians, eh?

I think MayBee is right. GW is president until January regardless of how Obama might want to “fundamentally change America” by tossing Bush out of the White House on Nov 5 and having Hugo Chavez spend the night in the Lincoln bedroom this weekend.

Darleen (187edc) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:09 am

Maybee

GW is taking care of America inspite of O!

The One just gets to take credit for the good of that protection. SOP for sniveling cowards.

Darleen (187edc) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:11 am

Catberto is correct – the recent strikes on AQ militants and their leadership in the mountain redoubts of Pakistan is clear evidence of Bush’s panic over an impending Obama administration’s unwillingness to do anything about the current threats. If Obama wins, count on serious action regarding Iranian nuclear capabilities – hell, even the Syrians bascially allowed us to walk in over their border last week in order to take out a particularly nasty cell.

Dmac (e30284) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:14 am

I predict that international bureaucrats at the UN will control the Internet by the end of the decade, and the greatest tool for the free interchange of ideas in human history will be suppressed shortly thereafter.

I predict that the 2010 census will not be based on an actual enumeration, but will be factored to account for those who are not counted – resulting in a significant increase in representation and electoral votes for Democrats.

I predict that the reinstated fairness doctrine will force conservative radio hosts onto satellite radio.

I predict that the ninth circuit court will be split into three courts stacked with liberals.

Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:14 am

MSNBC and Olberdouchenozzle called the United States for Baracky already.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:22 am

No need to vote you inbred, racist, homophobic, dummerer than a sack of hammer hilljacks. Teh One has been anointed.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:23 am

I predict that the nuclear option will be used by Democrats to break any filibuster on presidential nominees.

I predict that there will be an attempt to nationalize the local police.

I predict that there will be an attempt to incorporate 401ks into Social Security.

I predict that there will be an attempt to nationalize the health care industry.

I predict that the don’t ask-don’t tell policy in the military will be overruled by executive order.

I predict that military spending, especially for new weapons systems, will be drastically cut. Our nuclear arsenal will be taken apart.

I predict that all American forces will be withdrawn from Iraq, Afghanistan, and anywhere else in the Middle East by the end of the first two years of the new administration. The Afghan government will fall.

I predict that Venezuela will seize control of Cuba and install a puppet regime with the help of the Russian navy.

I predict that citizenship will be given to all illegal immigrants within the first four years.

Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:24 am

I worked my first election in 1948. I have had years of practical experience with elections as well as course in polling and polling techniques at both the undergraduate and graduate level.

I have never see an election where there is so much “noise” in the pollsters underlying assumptions.

It reminds me of the CIA forecasts during the Cold War about the Soviet GPM and military spending. Their forecasts were found to be consistently overestimating Soviet GNP and underestimating military spending.

Even so, their data was so much better than the Soviet internal economic records that the new Russian government used the CIA figures to compose their economic base.

The polls this year are running on too many assumptions. The majority of these assumptions appear to overemphasize the turnout of Obama voters while deemphasizing the McCain turnout.

I predict that the actual vote will show the greatest divergence from the predicted vote since 1848. It will be a long night but McCain, in my judgement, has a slight edge.

longwalker (ce69ff) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:33 am

Amphipolis: while the domestic aspects of your list are certainly a liberal democrat’s dream come true, don’t overstate Pelosi’s and Obama’s power. Pelosi owes her power to the relatively conservative Democrats who are responsible for unseating Republicans in blue/purple districts and states, and she very well knows that they won’t vote to enact a truly liberal agenda (you think the likes of Jim Webb in Virginia or Heath Shuler in Tennessee are going to vote to nationalize 401(k)s or take away private health insurance? Not if they wants to win re-election.

It’s been great fun watching Republicans try to scare the public with doom and gloom about Nancy Pelosi, but much of that really overstates what they can do. I’m not looking forward to it, but it isn’t going to be as bad as the chicken littles make it out to be.

stevesturm (369bc6) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:35 am

Where is everyone’s party hat?

I got some pledges from a lot of you that if Obama wins you will still hope for the best for America. I will follow through on my part if McCain pulls out a miracle.

This is not a football playoff where it’s o.k. to hope the team that beat your team gets stomped by the next opponent.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:44 am

Are there really more Dems’ the Repub’s or are they just registered in more than one state and voting more than once?
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/17878347/index.html
And why, if Dem’s are so sure of their landslide victory(as they always are)and sure that they are right about Obama do they feel the need to cheat?

I’m for McCain and think he’ll squeak it through in the end at least in the electoral college if not the popular vote (but I hope he squeaks that out in the end too)

A Californian (485ef9) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:44 am

Longwalker 48: what are the assumptions you think the pollsters are getting wrong to inflate Obama’s numbers and underestimate McCain’s?

I actually think it goes the other way for two reasons. One, the polling samples tend to weigh self identified Republicans heavier than they should, ignoring the fact that the percentage of self identified Republicans has been declining over the last couple of years. (Zogby is especially bad, his model just assumes the same percentage of voters identifying with either party is the same as 2004). Two, most of the polls only go to landlines, and ignore cell phones, which are especially used by young people, and young people are trending Obama this year.

Not bickering with you longwalker, just wondering what you know that I don’t.

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:45 am

stevesturm –

That’s the way I thought after the 2006 elections. I don’t any more. The conservative democrats have had no effect.

Amphipolis (fdbc48) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:49 am

I predict that, with the Chicago corrupt machine and the Schumer corrupt national machine finally in charge, this will be the last free election America sees; the first few years of Obama/Pelosi/Reid will be spent in stacking the deck (e.g. amnesty, to dilute nonDemocrats in a deluge of newly-minted Mexican “citizens”), stacking the courts, and silencing opposition (Fairness Doctrine and ‘net neutrality’).

I predict that, when this finally dawns on the Democrats that they have voted America into a Third World nation, they’ll excuse it by saying that it’s all Bush’s fault.

DaveP. (24a66f) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:52 am

This is not a football playoff where it’s o.k. to hope the team that beat your team gets stomped by the next opponent.

I do wish the best for Obama if he wins, just like I did during Clinton’s two terms in office. But I’ve never witnessed the intense level of hatred directed at any President since Bush’s tenure – if I acted anything like that, I’d lose just about all of my friends (who hail from the far to medium Left in most respects).

But don’t worry – if McCain loses, most Republicans will go back to their lives and plan for the next round of elections. Disappointed? Sure, but we won’t go batsh-t crazy over the next four years, regardless of what happens with Obama.

Dmac (e30284) — 11/4/2008 @ 8:52 am

Obama will win. Not even close. Voters are so mad at the Democrat Congress that they’ll punish the institution by electing even more Democrats. Filibuster proof Senate, maybe not 60 but close enough to pull in a couple RINOs. Economy was going to suck anyway, but with the new government’s help it will suck even more, and Republicans will take the blame for calling Obama’s socialist change “socialism” and not wanting it to work. Cf, Prez for life FDR, who made the Depression great but took credit for the country finally emerging from it anyway.

This is going to suck all around.

Xrlq (9a1859) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:00 am

Amphipolis: what have I missed? What have the Democrats done with their majority? They couldn’t push Bush to pull out the troops, they couldn’t keep the moratorium on offshore drilling. They couldn’t cram through amnesty for illegals. They didn’t confirm any of Bush’s judicial nominees, but they weren’t doing that much anyway prior to 2006. Pelosi talks a good game, but doesn’t really have anything to show for it. And the republicans who are losing in 2008 aren’t going to be replaced by raging liberals (for example, Mark Warner in VA is pretty middle of the road).

stevesturm (369bc6) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:00 am

I predict that, when this finally dawns on the Democrats that they have voted America into a Third World nation, they’ll excuse it by saying that it’s all Bush’s fault.

Democrats, only? Have you seen the latest issue of The Economist? They’re saying the same thing. And I’m hearing it in my own house.

One thing that makes me optimistic is the turnout. When the turnout is above 35% the Machine begins losing its effectiveness. Don’t forget that Obama beat Hillary in the caucuses, which is Machine, and not in the primaries which is individual voters.

nk (95bfab) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:00 am

Exactly, Darleen.

I cannot WAIT until Obama gets a first look at the actual intelligence.
I cannot WAIT until Obama gets his first “Out of Afghanistan now!” anti-war protesters.

MayBee (37070f) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:00 am

#54 You mean like the Republicans blamed Clinton in 2001?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:00 am

Disappointed? Sure, but we won’t go batsh-t crazy over the next four years, regardless of what happens with Obama.

I hope you are right but someone will need to rein in the hard right “you can’t be a conservative because you don’t agree with me 100%” crowd. This group can do as much damage to the GOP, if not more, as the far left did to Dems after the 2000 election.

Example of someone not in this group: Patterico, who doesn’t go with the crowd on gay marriage/unions.
Example of someone in this group: Ann Coulter, who sees middle ground on any issue as inherently weak and liberal by default.

voiceofreason2 (590c85) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:01 am

My prediction is McCain-Palin. I know, I know but, I have a really good feeling. Obama has historically had a problem closing the sale why would today be any different? I really feel like we are gonna pull this thing off!

HBoulware (404969) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:02 am

Aplomb : In every race that I have observed and examined afterwards, just about all the polls understated the Republican vote while overstating the Democratic vote.

The clearest example of this practice was the 1980 presidental election. The polls had Carter ahead to the end.

This year, that underlying bias has been reinforced by many factors regarding the projected turnout of various groups. Have you noticed that the predicted turnout in the early voting stats has been many times greater than the actual turnout. IIRC, in Ohio,during that period of same day registration/same day voting, the estimated turnout was about four times greater that the actual turnout.

If you factor that in, the projections for an Obama victory seen overstated.

If, for example, the youth vote is not as high as projected and does not split between McCain and Obama as predicted, and, the minority vote, also, is not as great as has been predicted and does not split as predicted, McCain will be the winner.

longwalker (ce69ff) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:08 am

I had my annual physical this morning, so I got a taste of what the next 4 years are going to be like…

Dave (037445) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:09 am

OK longwalker, I get where you are coming from and those might be good points, thanks for responding. Guess we will find out tonight.

Aplomb (b6fba6) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:13 am

Okay enough whining geez –

EricPWJohnson (500258) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:23 am

My prediction – one bizarre upset by McCain (e.g. Minnesota), 2-4 contested states.

Phil Smith (1cf25d) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:31 am

Comment by Xrlq — 11/4/2008 @ 9:00 am

Read your fisking of George will –
Brilliant!

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:36 am

I predict there will be a last minute surge towards McCain. Those last minute deciders will break towards McCain in states like PA, OH, VA, FL etc. This will cause the race to experience a cliffhanger moment. McCain will take some more states that were not leaning to him. It may not be enough though, but he won’t be going out without a fight.
Obama wins but not by a blowout. That tax and socialist charge against Obama may have caused him a lot of votes. If only McCain began to make that charge earlier on. The outcome may have been different. The “Mac” came “back” a little too late.

love2008 (0c8c2c) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:43 am

A rout in mine and jackass Wexler’s district. The Jews believe in THIS messiah.

I see a libtard election judge is tossing out GOP poll workers in my old stomping grounds of Philly because of their “minority” status. These are the sort of people backwards mario/bobo/peter and the other obama-enablers adore.

I’ll go with McCain/Palin nevertheless. So call me a racist but I liken Obama to jackasses like Murtha, William Jefferson and Stuart Smiley. Oh, the local dog liners all endorse Obama and even Alcee Hastings.

I’m taking care of various business today to avoid potential of having to travel through the underclass neighborhoods rest of week, who just may riot. Don’t want to be a Reginald Denny. Way to go America. Not my prediction, but given the words of cretins like Carville,
“journalist” Ali and has-been Erica Jong, enough encourgement for some elements. I know there are plenty of good, hard-working blacks who eschew violence and also assholes of all stripes ready to be ovecome with grief of being denied by whitey. Call me paranoid, but be prepared.
Imagine an election in 2012, with an army of jackbooted Obama thugs in guise of civilian security force rivaling the defense department? What’s to prevent it? One way or another regardless of who wins, Reid will be most powerful man in government if he gets his filibuster-proof majority.

Even if O trounces McCain in sheer votes, I’d be cool with a McCain electoral college squeaker.

madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:46 am

Fox News Video: Voting Intimidation By Black Panthers In Philadelphia.

Today.

Official Internet Data Office (df6254) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:50 am

I believe that the Dems will declare their victories an absolute mandate, no matter how slim the margins, and the media will go along with them. Any opposition from Republicans will result in calls of obstruction and partisanship, while when Dems did it, dissent was the highest form of patriotism, and the Republicans should have been acting in a bipartisan manner to heal the wounds from the election. Scrap those ideals once they have all the power.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:54 am

A#70 advice to madmax333 – take a breath from time to time.

It’s amazing to see Republicans getting squeaky and whinny all of a sudden.

Hope you guys put the party back together after this thing is done.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:56 am

I predict that I’ll be called a racist at some point in the next four years because of my opinions on capital-gains taxes and the need for a robust foreign policy.

Pious Agnostic (291f9a) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:58 am

I hope you are right but someone will need to rein in the hard right “you can’t be a conservative because you don’t agree with me 100%” crowd.

I think it’s going to be the exact opposite if Obama wins – who’s going to rein in the moonbats among his cultish supporters? Pelosi? Reid? Yeah, not so much – they’ve already shown that they have no backbone when it comes to acting like the adults within their own party.

You also miss the reality that the reason for the GOP’s success until recently has always been their “big tent” attitude – there are no heretics within that tent, only sometime dissenters. It’s the main reason why a candidate like McCain ever made it this far in the first place – they don’t eat their young.

Dmac (e30284) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:59 am

OIDO – Clearly you are a racist. The Democrats would never stoop to such actions. Plus, it must be a lie since Fox reported it.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 9:59 am

Pious – It is racist of you to assume that.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:00 am

Comment by Dmac — 11/4/2008 @ 9:59 am

I’m talking about how the GOP and conservatives get back on focus. I don’t agree with your big tent attitude assertion. The party demographics don’t support the claim.

voiceofreason2 (10af7e) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:03 am

If there is any doubt about whether or not the Dems will introduce the fairness doctrine, just take a look at what Senator Schumer had to say about it.

Regulating the content of political speech is the equivalent of regulating pornography.

Dmac – vor2 is right. The racist demographic is no longer enough to succeed electorally.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:09 am

Dmac – vor2 is right. The racist demographic is no longer enough to succeed electorally.

Comment by JD — 11/4/2008 @ 10:09 am

Ah JD – back on familiar ground. Do you accept that racists in the US probably represent more of a straightline percentage across all demographics?
That is the way I see it. So while one group may be no more biased than the next, if that group has more of the total population, solely based on total numbers it appears this group is more racist.
As for the GOP demographics it is what it is. There are less minorities due less to racism than to a lousy job of getting the message out effectively to draw them into the tent.

voiceofreason2 (10af7e) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:18 am

Some hope and change from the dreary forecasts:

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/7064

praecisio (7ca14d) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:32 am

Reality Check…

Racism exists across all societies, cultures, demographics, economic classes, etc. etc.
Is there racism in America: Yes!
Is America a racist country: Absolutely Not!

Just ask yourself:
If I could have been born anywhere in the World, what is the best country in the World to be a citizen of?

If you can’t answer “USA”, you need to dust-off your passport and leave to that place you perceive is better.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:33 am

#79, JD, I actually agree with you (weird I know) and most here that the fairness doctrine is wrong. We should leave radio airwaves the way they are no matter how skewed to the right they are.

Having said that, we can all agree that our radio waves do tend to lean Right…..right?

If so, considering how much time we listen to talk radio in our cars, home, online etc., and how much money people like Rush Limbaugh make, is it fair to go on calling the main stream media “left leaning”?

Unless you want to exclude radio from the MSM. I don’t.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:36 am

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 10:36 am

Either you are for capitalism, or you are not.
Talk-radio leans right because that’s where the ratings (ears) are.
If Lib/Left talkers could come up with a format and on-air talent that was entertaining, people would listen.
Not everyone who listens to Rush, Sean, etc, agree with everything they say or espouse, but they find the commentary entertaining.

The Left’s problem is that they are a bunch of scolds.

A Liberal is someone who lies in bed worrying that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:43 am

Having said that, we can all agree that our radio waves do tend to lean Right…..right?

Only if you are willing to admit that print and TV lean heavily Left.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:45 am

From what I hear and saw voring in Queens, there is heavy voter turnout. That most likely means Republicans are out, the PUMAs are out, and most likely the “undecideds” are going for McCain. Why? Because undecideds leaning Dem just don’t vote. I believe we may be seeing a landslide of Reaganesque proportions (1984). As long as the voting numbers stay high, McCain wins. Easily.

Barry shot himself in the foot with the “bankrupting coal plants” comment. A November surprise, and Barry was well aware that something would come out. That’s why he told his followers to vote early. Less chance for last-minute second thoughts.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:46 am

Every time this discussion comes up, I offer to make a trade with the Leftists. I will trade FoxNews and talk radio for ABC, CBS, NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, LA Times, NY Times, Sun Times, etc … No takers so far.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:47 am

Oiram,

I don’t know about everywhere but in my area AM talk-radio is as right-leaning as the MSM is left-leaning. I assume this is true in most markets since the bulk of the radio programs are nationally syndicated. So from my perspective, you can feel free to call talk radio “right-leaning” because I’m definitely going to call the MSM “left-leaning,” especially after its coverage of this election.

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:48 am

Oiram

Talk radio is, indeed, right-leaning …

why? because that is what the audience wants to listen to

People who have NOT been served by the left-leaning newspapers and tv found their own market

and the Left is a jealous cult that brooks little competition…so screw the First Amendment, kill talk radio!

Darleen (187edc) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:48 am

#84 You don’t care that I agreed with JD in #79 do you? You just see me as a liberal scold right?

I just want to know, do you agree that there are more right wing stations than left wing on the radio?

And I have to emphasize this again, I don’t want things to change unless the ratings say otherwise. Believe it or not I agree with you on that one too.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:49 am

Four predictions:

1. Exit polls will exaggerate Obama’s lead by 5% in east coast states, due to the face-to-face version of the Bradley Effect. This will not prevent CBS from declaring a landslide for Obama by 8PM EST.

2. CBS will erroneously call several states for Obama based on erroneous exit polls.

3. CBS will call the Florida race before the panhandle area’s polls close. Again.

4. Final count: 338-200 Obama (including FL, OH & VA)

Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:51 am

#88 I don’t know about everywhere but in my area AM talk-radio is as right-leaning as the MSM is left-leaning. I assume this is true in most markets since the bulk of the radio programs are nationally syndicated. So from my perspective, you can feel free to call talk radio “right-leaning” because I’m definitely going to call the MSM “left-leaning,” especially after its coverage of this election.

So DRJ you are saying that talk radio does not fall into the MSM?

Really? Have you seen how much Rush is being paid? And rightfully so, he has a lot of listeners. Doesn’t that make it Main Stream?

I’m really confused here.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:53 am

Oiram – Every time this discussion comes up, I offer to make a trade with the Leftists. I will trade FoxNews and talk radio for ABC, CBS, NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, LA Times, NY Times, Sun Times, etc … No takers so far.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:54 am

Kevin Murphy – I think that Olberdouche and MadCow already called the entire election for Baracky, and declared anyone that still plans on voting a racist.

No, talk radio is not the MSM. One’s salary does not make you mainstream.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:56 am

#93, Are you throwing in the opposite of Rush L. with that many listeners JD?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 10:56 am

I was very specfic in what I would trade, Oiram.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:00 am

JD, if you could assure me that I will get an equivalent to Rush and his ratings, I will take your offer in a heartbeat.

But that is not addressing what I am getting at…… and you know that.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:03 am

#94 Just read JD, sorry you did address.

Why isn’t talk radio MSM?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:04 am

Then you are a spectacular idiot. The viewerships and readerships of talk radio and Fox is dwarfed by the MSM.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:04 am

#94 Let me help you here. Isn’t one’s salary indicative of ratings in the case of Rush?

People are listening to him right? And in droves.

Again, why isn’t talk radio MSM?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:07 am

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 10:49 am

Yes, the majority of talk-radio is Center-Right to Far-Right, depending on market, because that is where the ears are (what part of the Arbitron Ratings do you not understand?).
Rush and Sean are not the entirety of Talk-Radio, only the biggest ear-grabbers. If you researched the issue, you would find out what the entire market is, and how much Rush & Sean represent of that entirety.

My comment about Liberal Scolds was directed at the moon-bats that they have put on the air-waves.
But, if the shoe fits…

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 10:53 am

“I’m really confused here.”

Ah-hah! There can be agreement between us.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:08 am

AM radio around here leans heavily right. FM leans slightly left (largely apolitical plus NPR = leans left).

TV is left wing over all. So if we silence Rush – I say we silence all of the mainstream TV news organs too. They are as biased as Rush – but he admits it, they don’t.

Newspapers don’t count in this discussion (unfortunately.

it’s good to see that a liberal is opposed to the so called fairness doctrine. congrats on clarity of thought on the issue.

quasimodo (edc74e) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:09 am

Talk radio is a result of the MSM, a by-product of the MSM, if you will. For a long time, it was the only place where one could hear conservative voices.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:10 am

Oiram,

I don’t think you can fairly equate AM talk-radio with media like the network news. Every town in the US has ABC, NBC, and CBS but not every location offers a spectrum of conservative talk radio programs.

Further, I don’t think it’s fair to say the MSM/network news is counterbalanced by 3 hours a day of Rush Limbaugh. Even if people listen to talk radio every time they drive, few commuters equal the hours of TV most people see each day. Thus, I don’t see any reasonable comparison between talk radio and the MSM. And as JD repeatedly says, if you do — let’s trade. But you only get Rush’s ratings if you earn them.

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:12 am

JD @ 103
true dat. My wife was so excited when she first heard Rush because for the first time, she heard things she agreed with on the radio or TV.

quasimodo (edc74e) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:13 am

#103, Thanks JD for at least admitting that talk radio is MSM (I think that’s what your saying anyway).

By product eh?

Talk radio has been right leaning since at least the eighties when I started listening.

Now the MSM praised Ronald Reagan (rightfully so) and equally castigated (not completely rightfully so in the 90’s.

Could it be that your markets are dictating exactly the way they should?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:14 am

I wonder what this blog will be like after today. What will be the next story to fight about?

love2008 (0c8c2c) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:15 am

#106 correction:

Now the MSM praised Ronald Reagan (rightfully so) and equally castigated Bill Clinton (not completely rightfully so) in the 90’s.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:15 am

#107 Love are you kidding? With this crowd?

This site will be stronger than ever once Obama gets elected.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:16 am

“… why isn’t talk radio MSM?”

Well, for one thing the term Main-Stream-Media, if not original with Rush, was made popular by him. You must realize that he has been doing this since the early 80’s, nationally syndicated since 1988.
He has also originated the phrase “Drive-by Media”, designating someone in the media who just levels an attack, and then goes on to something else, never engaging in discussion on the point they have brought up – just as the trolls here make an attack, and when responded to, change the subject. Why? Because they are not serious people.

And why are you so focused on income?
Does the best actor in the world also make the most money?
I never thought that Olivier made near the amount that some in Hollywood were drawing-down, yet no one in that town could hold a candle to him, either on the stage, or screen.
So, again, what is it about Rush’s income that so obsesses you?

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:16 am

Shall we include the liberal assumptions behind nearly every bit of entertainment coming from Hollywood too? How about a fairness doctrine applied there too? Rush is entertainment. Why not?

quasimodo (edc74e) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:19 am

“… at least admitting that talk radio is MSM…”

NONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The MSM is a very specific term.
It is the AP, the major print media (NYT, WaPo, LAT, Trib, etc), the TV-troika of ABC/NBC/CBS, plus NPR/PBS.

IT DOES NOT INCLUDE TALK-RADIO!
Talk radio is a response to the one-sided viewpoint found in the MSM. Therefore, how can it be part of it?
Ying and Yang!

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:24 am

I think Obama has a clear advantage but I can’t tell who will win this election. The last time I felt this way was 1976.

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:27 am

#110 So because Rush was the originator of the term “Main Stream Media” (If that is so) then we shouldn’t consider his media main stream? O..K….

Trolls fall on both sides my friend BTW.

Why am I so focused on income? Well Rush’s salary should fall under the idea “Letting the markets dictate” Shouldn’t it? Unless your thinking maybe outside money is paying his salary besides ratings (I am not thinking this).

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:27 am

Again, why isn’t talk radio MSM?

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 11:07 am

Talk radio is opinion and/or entertainment.

The MSM is (supposed to be) news reporting.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:28 am

Thanks JD for at least admitting that talk radio is MSM

That is the exact opposite of what I am saying, Oiram.

lovie – I suspect, that like Rush’s audience during the Clinton years, that the conservative audience and voice on the internet will actually increase in response to the policies put forth by Teh Anointed One.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:28 am

Porn stars make a shit load of money, yet they are not main stream. Some rappers make obscene amounts of money, and they are not main stream. Simply making a lot of money does not make one main stream. At this point, it seems like you are intentionally missing the point, Oiram.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:31 am

Talk radio is opinion and/or entertainment.

The MSM is (supposed to be) news reporting.

Comment by CW Desiato

Amen. Though with liberals, one can see how they could be confused about the whole news/opinion thingy.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:33 am

#112 Another Drew

The MSM is a very specific term.
It is the AP, the major print media (NYT, WaPo, LAT, Trib, etc), the TV-troika of ABC/NBC/CBS, plus NPR/PBS

Who “Specifies” this? Rush Limbaugh?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:35 am

#119 But there is plenty of opinion on Fox news isn’t there? And for that matter there is plenty of reporting on Talk Radio right?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:37 am

Isn’t one’s salary indicative of ratings in the case of Rush?

In many cases in the MSM, it doesn’t – but in commercial radio, you only get paid if you bring in the listeners (and advertisers). Katie Couric is a good example of Titanic – like ratings for a featured news program, yet she lives on, because the MSM thinks that a figurehead is still more important than an actual reporter.

Dmac (e30284) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:39 am

I predict…that I will be stocking up on ammo before it gets banned (or heavily taxed) by our new Democratic Overlords.

naman (d7c7dc) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:39 am

#117 Not missing the point JD. Just tired of you guys omitting the radio when you mock the MSM just because it appears to slant one way when it actuality is reflecting the opinion of the masses who frequent these networks.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:41 am

Hope: McCain 273. It’s unlikely, but not impossible.

Prediction: Obama 340. Fairness doctrine, massive tax hikes, selling out of Israel, Iran goes nuclear within six months; recession deep and wide, and lasts at least three years.

Joel Rosenberg (5ec843) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:42 am

So you will trade me Fox and conservative talk radio for ABC, CBS, NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, NY Times, LA Times, WaPo, Sun Times, etc … ? Really?

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:44 am

#119 But there is plenty of opinion on Fox news isn’t there?

Yes. But the “news” part of “Fox News” is an important distinction. The primary function of a news organization is to deliver the news stories of the day.

For example:

Neither the hard-core right nor left will ever be satisfied by Post coverage — and that’s as it should be. But it’s true that The Post, as well as much of the national news media, has written more stories and more favorable stories about Barack Obama than John McCain. Editors have their reasons for this, but conservatives are right that they often don’t see their views reflected enough in the news pages.

And then, you asked:

And for that matter there is plenty of reporting on Talk Radio right?

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 11:37 am

Yes but the reporting is typically impetus for more opinion-based pieces. The primary function of talk radio is talk about the newsworthy stories of the day.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:50 am

#125 Yes, as long as they continue to reflect their markets.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:50 am

Well, at least Oiram has enough stones to answer. Kudos. Why in the hell would you make that trade, Mario?

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:51 am

Oiram said he was willing to trade, on the condition that his new left-leaning talk radio get a superstar ratings machine like Rush. Obviously, he still doesn’t get what a market driven media means.

If we could make the swap of Fox and talk radio for the primary MSM outlets, the immediate result would be the death of Fox and talk radio from the loss of their audience, followed by the New York Times hiring tons of new reporters and selling record numbers of subscriptions. Rush would replace Katie Couric, and the network evening news would be huge!

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:51 am

There is that Leftist ideal of equality of outcome again …

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:52 am

“Continue to reflect their markets”???!!!

So conservatives should run the MSM and try to appeal to liberals? One of us is disconnected from reality here.

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:53 am

It’s all perspective my friends when it comes to the MSM.

Where were you guys during Monica Gate? The media loved that story to death and helped Clinton walk away from a Reaganesque Legacy. No complaint there right?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:54 am

I vote Republican, but some of you need to read about what those PUMAs have been doing. They’ve been actively manning the phones and getting out the vote for McCain. Those Hillary Dems are totally pissed of at the thuggish Obama, and how his supporters intimidated throughout the primaries. (They also have not forgiven Obama’s arrogance in assuming that he has Hillary voters but does Hillary has his?) Sen. Clinton’s Super Tuesday romp was impressive — and important. Not only did she beat the media pundits, but she hammered Obama. If even a third of those Hillary/PUMA Dems vote for McCain, it’s over.

Anecdotal evidence: Do not underestimate the story of the black woman from Harlem wearing her orange sweatshirt (the PUMA color) and voting for McCain. Hillary Dems are pissed, and they’ve totally bought into the “Country First” idea. And they are putting country before party and voting for a man they trust to be the President. They are putting politics aside and voting for an American, a hero, someone who has proven his leadership under the most horrendous of fire. The PUMAs know he will represnt them, as they have shown themselves to be Patriots, too.

Do not underestimate the PUMA effect, even in urban precincts.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:54 am

#130 Ahh yes JD running to the “leftist” remarks again eh?

Figures (I still like you though)

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:55 am

The media loved that story to death

Because it was a news story, and it had a sexual aspect that was titillating in the news cycle. Plus, we had a sitting President lying under oath.

The fact that the MSM continues to claim that the whole matter was about sex, when it was about perjury and obstruction of justice is another example of their bias. Remember, it took a blogger to report on this before the MSM ever dreamed of it, despite having the story long before that.

They did not help Clinton walk away from his legacy. Billy Jeff was responsible for that all by his lonesome.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 11:58 am

Oiram – Which side pushes policies that favor equality of outcome over equality of opportunity?

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:00 pm

#130 Ahh yes JD running to the “leftist” remarks again eh?
Figures (I still like you though)
Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 11:55 am

Is this a talking point emphasized by the left-wing seminars?
Lovie uses the same basic tactic!
Or, is Oiram and love2008 the same troll?

You know, don’t you Oiram, that one of the harshest critics of Bubba’s actions re Monica was Chris Mathews?
What Bubba did had nothing to do with Left/Right, it was strictly a lack of morals, and class/manners, on his part, typified by his weasel statement or “It all depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is”.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:15 pm

#133 RickZ
PUMA efforts: heartening links?

m (9401dc) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:17 pm

#73 backwards mario/bobo/tokyo rose/axis sally-
try doing the anatomically impossible. I’m just pointing out that the koolaid obama fellators are fine with the end justifying the means.

Can you imagine the howls if the GOP tried any of the shite that libtards are famous for? I am not the one calling for riots because the mixed race affirmative action mutant/cretin with big ears might lose. If I were in charge anyone rioting and such would be given a warning and then, if the mob can’t heed it, shoot them. I reacll the MLK riots forty years ago, when places like Detroit and Watts burned. Philly police commish Rizzo had his men out in force and peace prevailed. Town I was living in had cops with shotguns standing on the corners downtown.

Soros and other “wise men”/socialists have big bucks invested in O! Talk is market will have a massive rally but it will be whistling past the graveyard before we fall into the abyss. They’ll take your 410k and you can see what to expect by looking at what the powers that be recently did in Argentina.

madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:27 pm

[object]

That’s the one I’ve been reading. Their blogroll will get you to others. Be sure to check out ‘Caucus Fraud’. These sane Dems cannot stand Obama, cannot stand Pelosi, cannot stand Reid, cannot stand Dean. They want their party back from the loonie left. They are actively working for McCain because they’ve already dealt with Obama and his thugs once, so they know the deal. They really are putting Country before Party in voting for McCain. Their various stories of intimidation because they support Hillary, and now McCain, show more courage than many of us give them credit for. Like I said on HillBuzz, I’m proud to have bumped into them. They have really renewed my faith in a portion of Democrats. The honest ones. The ones who love their country, for all its faults. The ones the media doesn’t cover.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:33 pm

Oiram….
The term MSM has become part of the lexicon, regardless of who originated it.
The MSM themselves self-identify as the Main-Stream Media, to differentiate themselves from “Right-Wing” talk-radio and FoxNews. What Fox has done IMO is to create themselves as the obverse of AP/CNN. This is especially important with the demise of AP’s domestic/international competitor (can’t even remember their name now, it’s been so long since they were a factor in the news business). The other news bureaus such as Reuters have their own biases too, then you have Bloomberg which concentrates on business, but has gotten into main-stream news coverage.
Fox has obviously satisfied an un-met demand in that their ratings are generally much better than CNN, which was their target opposition.
The criticism of Fox as Right-Wing is really humorous as Fox, which IS to the Right of CNN, is pretty much in the Center, and truly tries to walk the middle (Fair and Balanced).

JD’s point is valid, we’ll trade the Left at any time: Talk-radio for the major print outlets & the TV networks.

BitterClinger is also accurate in that if that swap were made, talk-radio would disappear as the audiences shifted to the new outlets for conservative opinion/entertainment.

Remember, talk-radio would not exist if nobody was listening.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:36 pm

m,

Sorry. My post was eaten by the innernut goblins. Maybe my link?

Try searching ‘HillBuzz’. Their blogroll will get you to many PUMA links. Be sure to check out ‘caucus fraud’. These are honest Dems who cannot stand Obama, cannot stand Pelosi, cannot stand Reid, cannot stand Dean. They are a formidable, if loose, organization. Very upbeat and positive, and the Axelturfers are post there big time. But reading them, well they sure beat the h*ll out of reading AllahPundit!

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:39 pm

I kind of skimmed some comments but my prediction is McCain with about 275 in the electoral college but Obama about 500 thousand plurality in votes. The big blue cities will go for him in a big way but the total popular vote won’t be enough. Florida, Pennsylvania and Virginia all for McCain.

I thin the coal story may even be the deciding thing like the DUI story in 2000 almost sunk Bush and led to the tie. One reason I can tell is that my oldest son, who is a trial lawyer and Obama supporter, has sent me three angry e-mails about the coal story. If he’s that upset, it’s a good sign. Of course, I didn’t tell him that.

I can see the Democrats attacking talk radio. I saw the video of Schumer comparing it to pornography. If Obama loses, I see fury by Democrats who will still be a majority. McCain would veto such a bill but it may be like the Boland Amendment which got attached to every bill until it finally passed. It would be their revenge.

Of course, the effect would be to shift talk radio to satellite. But Democrats don’t know about economics. The labor unions are trying to get a Smoot-Hawley equivalent passed. In 1932 it was the ignorant right that sank the economy; today it’s the left.

Mike K (f89cb3) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:45 pm

RickZ,

I found your comment in moderation (it probably went there because of the link) and I approved it, but now I can’t find it. Maybe I hit the wrong button and if so I apologize. Could you try again?

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:53 pm

The media loved that story to death and helped Clinton walk away from a Reaganesque Legacy.

Impeachment will do that. Do you suppose that it shouldn’t have been covered, Oiram?

Pablo (99243e) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:53 pm

Mike K,

I saw an article on Schumer’s comments, too. It sounds like the Senate Democrats consider the Fairness Doctrine their number 1 priority.

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:56 pm

#137 Another writes:

You know, don’t you Oiram, that one of the harshest critics of Bubba’s actions re Monica was Chris Mathews?
What Bubba did had nothing to do with Left/Right, it was strictly a lack of morals, and class/manners, on his part, typified by his weasel statement or “It all depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is”.

I sure do know about Chris Mathews Antother Drew, my point exactly. Thank You.

What G.W. has done was also strictly a lack of morals as well, and the media has reflected that and the feelings of Americans.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:58 pm

#145 No Pablo, I’m glad it was covered. Thanks for making my points.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 12:59 pm

#141 Another Drew writes:

Remember, talk-radio would not exist if nobody was listening.

I agree whole heartedly with that sentence Another Drew. But doesn’t that make it main stream?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:01 pm

“…G.W. has done was also strictly a lack of morals…”

Please elucidate!

This I’ve got to hear.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:03 pm

What points are those, Oiram?

Pablo (99243e) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:04 pm

But doesn’t that make it main stream?

Not really. You have to seek it out and it isn’t treated as a news source by the apparatus that decides what the news will be. Sadly, what the New York Times is reporting is still the dominant factor in what you’ll see on network TV.

Pablo (99243e) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:06 pm

DRJ,

Thanks for the info, but, well, it’s gone. Oh well.

Mike K,

If you skimmed the comments then you would know that there is one comment that predominates, in some variation: I’ve voted Dem my whole life, but I just voted for McCain. (So did my spouse, and my kids, and my parents. . . . Well you get the idea.) These are people who vote. Their effect should not be ignored or underestimated. Like I said, a 33% swing of these Hillary Dems to McCain kills the One. And that’s just what the PUMAs want.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:08 pm

#151 Pablo, on #145 you asked Impeachment will do that. Do you suppose that it shouldn’t have been covered, Oiram?

It was covered and I didn’t like it at the time, but it needed to be covered. You and many here are accusing the MSM of being liberaly biased when in fact it is for the most part covering the facts of the last 8 years. Of course it bothers you, you are right leaning as Bush is supposed to be.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:09 pm

But doesn’t that make it main stream

You are still unclear on the concept.
“Main Stream” denotes that part of the Media that self-identifies as such:
ABC/CBS/NBC/NYT/AP/WaPo/etc.

They agree on who comprises the MSM, just as conservative also agree as to who comprises the MSM.
Ergo, Right-Wing Talk-Radio (regardless of how successful, and how much money its’ talent makes) is not part of the MSM. They are the counter-point to the MSM. Ying/Yang!

You really need to take a course in Semantics.
It would vastly improve your comprehension of ideas, and your ability to argue/explain those ideas.
Words have specific meanings.
It is only the Left (Marxists) who demand the privilege of self-definition, so they can always slant the argument to satisfy the meaning they have chosen.
If you want to be taken seriously, you should not fall into that trap.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:10 pm

I agree whole heartedly with that sentence Another Drew. But doesn’t that make it main stream?

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 1:01 pm

“MSM” refers to the popular news outlets like the alphabet networks, newspapers, wire services, etc.

Talk radio, while it may be “mainstream” and “media” isn’t included in that. When people refer to talk radio, they largely mean “opinion radio”, whether that’s sports, finances or politics.

I could be speaking only for myself here but that’s my interpretation of it.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:11 pm

Oiram,

Lewinsky was covered only because the internet (Drudge) broke the story all the other media was hiding. Sort of what they are doing with Obama, but to an absurd extreme.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:12 pm

RickZ,

I know how you feel. It’s more pain to re-do lost comments than to write them in the first place. And, again, I’m sorry about losing it.

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:18 pm

I love this, you guys are all trying to defend Radio as non MSM.

Listen I may be one of the only Dems against the Fairness Doctrine, you should be a little more honest with one who agrees with you on that issue.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:19 pm

Another aspect of the term “Main Stream”:
The MSM classifies itself as such to disparage the parts of media that it considers inferior; talk-radio, FoxNews, the Internet/Bloggers, and right-wing publications (interestingly, when David Lawrence was alive and running USN&WR, it was not considered main-stream, but a right-wing rag. Now that it is part of a media conglomerate, and has a more Liberal editorial emphasis, it is considered “main-stream”).
This is also seen in politics, particularly in hearing before the Senate Judiciary Cmte where candidates for judgeships are disparaged as being “outside the main-stream of jurisprudence”, where what the accuser is really saying is that the candidate has views which are to the right of his. Just look at the testimony of Schumer or Leahy on any conservative candidate for the Court of Appeals or SCOTUS.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:21 pm

“… little more honest…”

How are we being dishonest?
We state our position openly, and succinctly.
How is that not honest?

And, where is the answer to my question in #150?

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:24 pm

Oiram,

How is Rush Limbaugh media, as in main stream media? He’s a pundit, not a news source, which, in my world, means media. Though I admit, nowadays, it can be kind of hard to tell the difference between a news source and punditry.

RickZ (06fa85) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:24 pm

#157 You guys got Monicagate all wrong, Anyone remember Linda Tripp (Republican)?

Sorry I brought up this can of worms, but I felt it should be remembered considering your feelings on the Main Stream Media.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:25 pm

Oiram,

I didn’t understand your comment earlier regarding labeling radio as part of the MSM. The MSM has a specific connotation to me that excludes AM talk-radio and right-leaning newspapers/magazines, but I’d certainly agree they are all part of the public media.

DRJ (cb68f2) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:26 pm

#150 Sorry not going to go into Bush’s fault’s anymore…… no need to “Elucidate”.

The polls are “Elucidating” enough thank you very much.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:28 pm

#164 Thanks for the opinion DRJ. That’s what it is right? The MSM has a specific connotation to me…….

Why do you exclude AM talk-radio. I hate to bring up Rush again, but doesn’t his pay reflect ratings?

To me…. AM talk radio should be included in the MSM.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:30 pm

But doesn’t that make it main stream?

Round and round we go. Mario seems hell bent on redefining what the MSM is. The leftist really do believe that words do not have meaning, or that their meanings are flexible depending on what political point they might be trying to make.

But Oiram is willing to trade Fox and talk radio for all of the other television stations, radio, and print, so I will happily do so. Anyone have the nightly ratings for the networks?

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:32 pm

I love this, you guys are all trying to defend Radio as non MSM.

That’s not what’s happening.

Listen I may be one of the only Dems against the Fairness Doctrine, you should be a little more honest with one who agrees with you on that issue.

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 1:19 pm

It’s been explained how _we_ see it very clearly with no dishonesty.

MSM = organizations that should be reporting news because that’s what they sell themselves as.

Talk radio = opinion.

I believe that the MSM should do their job of reporting straight news more often. Or, just drop all pretense of being unbiased and advertise themselves as being opinion journalism.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:33 pm

“Fair & Balanced” CW?

Chuckle.

snuffles (677ec2) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:36 pm

You guys got Monicagate all wrong,

She wasn’t giving Slick Willie a hummer in the White House?

The term MSM has nothing to do with pay or ratings. Good Allah.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:38 pm

#167 Again with the “Mario”. You can be pretty thick skulled JD.

Who decided Talk radio is not MSM JD? And why………? Sorry, but I think perspectives rely on omission.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:39 pm

#170 Yeah Good Allah! We agree again.

Please Define Main Stream.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:41 pm

#168 CW Desiato So far that was the most intelligent answer to my questions. Thanks.

However All networks including Fox give their opinions. You may agree with more of them than me but they are still opinions.

Talk radio and radio in general give us the news and often portray themselves as a news organization.

It’s your opinion that the MSM is biased and that’s fine. You are all entitled to your opinion but when you omit Radio from your accusations it makes your positions suspect to say the least.

One Dems opinion.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:48 pm

Mario – We have defined it for you, ad nauseum. I will define it, by example. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, NY Times, LA Times, Sun Times, Washington Post, AP, UPI, Newsweek, Reuters.

The long standing traditional legacy media.

Talk radio arrived at its popularity only because the aforementioned intentionally neglected a sector of thought. Talk radio came about only as a result of the ideological bias of the aforementioned.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:49 pm

Talk radio and radio in general give us the news and often portray themselves as a news organization.

Show me where Hannity or Rush have portrayed themselves as a news organization.

For the sake of your BS arguement, assuming Fox and talk radio to be part of the MSM, the MSM would still tilt dramatically to the Left. It would not even be close.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:52 pm

Who gives a rip what MSM is??? The term has been useful in discussion of media bias because pretty much everybody agreed on a meaning. Now Oiram thinks talk radio should be included. Fine. Dump all the previous discussions. Redo the terms. Talk about liberal media and conservative media. Whatever!

The bottom line doesn’t change. The reason Rush is making millions and the liberal media is going bankrupt is because people like what they hear from conservative media. (Note: I agree with whoever said above that the conservative media is largely stuck with the opinion outlets while the liberal media still controls the “hard” news outlets like AP)

So… Oiram won’t make the swap of Fox and radio for the liberal media (formerly known as the MSM) unless we guarantee that he (now in charge of talk radio) gets to keep the same audience. Why do you suppose that is???

It’s because, like all liberals, he has to be GIVEN a market for his stuff because no one wants it. People have to be forced to listen to lib talk, like in the public schools, because if they had a choice they’d opt out!

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:52 pm

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 1:28 pm

A troll.
An Idiot.
A fucking coward.

I’m done with you.

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:52 pm

Oiram does give new depth to the word “obtuse”, doesn’t he?

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:54 pm

Nice, JD.

Use your potty mouth to drive a few more moderate Republicans over to the Democrats.

Keep up the good work.

BTW, if Obama wins, you become a troll.

Thinks about it.

snuffles (677ec2) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:54 pm

#140, 142 RickZ
Thanks. Link works. Go, PUMAs.

m (9401dc) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:56 pm

Would all of the “moderate” Republicans on this site please raise their hands?

Another Drew (184a22) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:58 pm

#177 Oh no, your done with me Another Drew???

Good, your doing your party a favor because your acting like trash with your profanity towards me.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:58 pm

They’re all Democrats voting for Obama now, AD.

Well done.

snuffles (677ec2) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:59 pm

Present.

Barack Obama (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 1:59 pm

#176 It’s because, like all liberals, he has to be GIVEN a market for his stuff because no one wants it. ………………..

We’ll see about that tonight eh BitterClinger?

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:01 pm

Here.

John McCain (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:01 pm

yes, we will, Oiram.

If BO is elected, then the libs will try to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine (which you too oppose, thank you. I acknowledge that.) because they know that they can’t compete.

The fact that you have *said* you oppose the Fairness Doctrine seems to conflict with the condition you imposed on accepting a media swap. You thought it would be just fine if liberals took over talk radio’s huge audience in exchange for the conservatives getting the audience of the dinosaur media. But the really bitter pill you can’t seem to swallow is that if such an impossible exchange could really be made it would result in the miraculous resurrection of the dinosaur media!

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:04 pm

“Can’t compete” in terms of media, I mean. Obviously, the liberals are very good at competing for votes – by pandering, promising, and purloining at the ballot box.

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:05 pm

Pardon me.

Anger and alliteration don’t go well together.

BitterClinger (47b0b8) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:06 pm

No sniffles, I do not become a troll if Baracky wins. That you have no idea what a troll actually is comes as quite the shock.

JD (5b4781) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:07 pm

Let’s just wait a few hours a see who America decides is a troll and who isn’t, JD.

I think one of us is about to be very disappointed.

snuffles (677ec2) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:11 pm

Sorry, snuffles, you’re the old troll. Oiram is the new troll. You two will have to fight for our attention.

Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:14 pm

#187 I have faith in the markets correcting themselves more than you do BitterClinger. If the swap was made things would correct themselves just fine in my opinion.

It is the will of the people.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:24 pm

Sniffles it’s funny how these guys call us trolls for giving on our opinions on there turf.

They should be welcoming us instead of just preaching to their choir.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:26 pm

Sniffles it’s funny how these guys call us trolls for giving on our opinions on there turf.

They should be welcoming us instead of just preaching to their choir.

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 2:26 pm

You’re at least trying to have a discussion.

Snuffles, not so much.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:28 pm

They should be welcoming to us if they want to win elections, Oir.

As it is, they’d rather rant than win.

Which is fine with me.

snuffles (677ec2) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:42 pm

#196 🙂

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:44 pm

I’ve thought for the six months McCain was going to win this election…then over the past 30 days, the underlying fundamentals have become quite apparent to me, and I’ve waivered, thinking the hill is just too steep of one for him to climb.

However, today, after looking things over, I think McCain is going to get an electoral victory. He is going to carry PA, and if he carries PA, he will carry Ohio, VA and Florida, and that’s his magic hand. Nevada, CO and NM together don’t add up to PA, so even if they flip, it won’t hurt him.

Why the turn around? A couple of reasons. First, the race has an undecided number far exceeding the typical Obama lead. Those undecideds aren’t actually undecided. They are 70-30 McCain voters. This is a evolved Bradley effect.

Second, the sampling has seemed to be oversamplind Democrats consistently, and polls alwasy seem skewed to the Democrat side.

Third, is just the man himself, John McCain. Let’s look at what he’s done. Graduated near the bottom of his class, became a fighter pilot, crashed his plane, left for dead, was taken POW, beaten so badly he can’t raise his arms over his head, had his teeth broken off, left for dead again. Stays a POW 5 1/2 years. Gets out, marries a hot ass heiress, gets elected to Congress, pisses off his entire party, and wins the nomination for the presidency anyway.

To me, it just seems rather foolish to count a guy like that out.

headhunt23 (9e1243) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:46 pm

They should be welcoming to us if they want to win elections, Oir.

Comment by snuffles — 11/4/2008 @ 2:42 pm

Can you explain how that works? Why would “us” welcoming “you” give “us” the desired election results?

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 2:59 pm

Comment by headhunt23 — 11/4/2008 @ 2:46 pm
And so, the back and forth continues. I agree with headhunt23. To an extent. You are right, you can’t count someone like McCain out. But this campaign is not about John McCain. It’s about the American verdict on George Bush. If Americans think he did a good job, McCain wins. If they think he didn’t, he loses.

love2008 (1b037c) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:03 pm

Let’s just wait a few hours a see who America decides is a troll and who isn’t, JD.

sniffy seems to think that an Obama coronation means nationalization not only of healthcare and talk radio, but the Internet, too.

sniffy’s BFF is Chuckie Schumer.

Darleen (187edc) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:04 pm

Comment by love2008 — 11/4/2008 @ 3:03 pm

No, it is about:

“If you promise to rob Peter to pay Paul, you can count on Paul’s vote.”

what you see in the Obama vote is undiluted greed (lust for the unearned).. the basis of socialism.

Darleen (187edc) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:07 pm

I predict I’m on the verge of finishing my first drink (Sambuca).

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:09 pm

Love2008, the only reason this election is close is because of Bush. If Bush was of moderate approval, McCain would be winning in a walk. Obama is a poor candidate who happens to campaign well. Had the Dems run HRC, the fat lady would be warming up right now.

headhunt23 (9e1243) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:19 pm

#203 Great choice for a drink CW. Good in Espresso as well, although some prefer Anisette.

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:22 pm

#203 Great choice for a drink CW. Good in Espresso as well, although some prefer Anisette.

Comment by Oiram — 11/4/2008 @ 3:22 pm

Well, if I truly want that “anise” taste, I’ll switch to Absinthe.

CW Desiato (614aa7) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:26 pm

#206 I predict that Absinthe will throw me for a loop (trying to stay on topic)

Oiram (983921) — 11/4/2008 @ 3:38 pm

Comment by headhunt23 — 11/4/2008 @ 3:19 pm
Barack Obama beat Hillary Clinton. He will beat McCain. Mainly because of Bush.

love2008 (1b037c) — 11/4/2008 @ 4:02 pm

11/4/2008

Predictions

208 Responses to “Predictions”

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