Patterico's Pontifications

10/21/2008

The Case Against Obama (Plus)

Filed under: General — Karl @ 10:22 am



[Posted by Karl]

In an unusual HotAir post, Guy Benson and Mary Katharine Ham — with contibutions from Ed Morrisssey — have compiled a link- and video-rich “closing argument” surveying Barack Obama’s “paper-thin resume, unsavory associations, and hard-left voting record,” to share with undecided or wavering family members, friends and co-workers.

I would have led with taxes and foreign policy; abortion is an important issue, but I suspect it is not a game-changer for those undecided two weeks from the election.  That, however, is a quibble over a substantial effort.  Also, the section on Obama’s lack of accomplishments has good video, but the comprehensive review of Obama’s non-record I wrote for Protein Wisdom makes for a link-rich companion piece.

–Karl

99 Responses to “The Case Against Obama (Plus)”

  1. Here is more information than can and does make a difference to fiscally minded and undecided voters: By ignoring Obama’s DSA ‘New Party’ history, we are all missing the critical connection between Obama and ACORN.

    There is proof in FACT that Obama’s history has been removed from public servers during his rise into politics and that his campaign is lying about his history and his true ideology. But most importantly, by ignoring Obama’s DSA ‘New Party’ history, we are all missing the critical connection between Obama and ACORN as well. PLEASE see all the information below and why this IS important to voters in this elelction:

    http://web.archive.org/web/19970709035657/http://www.newparty.org/up9610.html

    ” Illinois: Three NP-members won Democratic primaries last Spring and face off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (U.S. House), Barack Obama (State Senate) and Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary). ”

    TWO reasons this IS important despite what MSM (including FOX) reports:

    1) Does Obama intend to keep his promises to the New Party? New Party members in the days when Obama was a member were required to sign a contract to maintain a visible relationship with New Party and uphold the agenda of the New Party in the political careers that New Party and ACORN would work together to help establish:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/archives_prove_obama_was_a_new.html

    “He signed a contract promising to maintain a visible relationship. The candidate should be pressed by McCain/Palin to reveal that contract and proclaim his adherence to New Party goals before the American people approve him for our highest office.”

    2) During the days that Obama was a member of DSA’s New Party, ACORN and New Party were virtually indistinguishable as organizations. They worked very closely together to make sure the members of both organizations would win elections. See for yourself how closely New Pary and ACORN worked together to help its win elections, time and time again. Obama was a MEMBER of the New Party and therefore his history with ACORN is undeniable! Its in the archives!

    Use: http://www.google.com/search2001.html
    Search: “barack obama” “new party”
    Search: “new party” ACORN

    If a=b & b=c, a=c? I believe there is a STRONG case here that is NOT being reported.

    See also: http://www.activated.blogtownhall.com

    Robin (09ca41)

  2. Actually, this is probably the best one of these ‘indictments’ against Obama, at least for succinctness and cutting ot the quick:

    http://tinyurl.com/69bwah

    ECM (de5660)

  3. It’s the thought of an impending Obama Court that has me in despair. His appointments will easily survive me (I’m 66) and extend well into my children’s lives.

    I remember well the Rose Bird era here in California. How about Bill Ayers on the Supreme Court? Laugh at that if you will, but with a super-majority in the senate, who’s gonna stop it?

    Old Coot (b63ab3)

  4. So who are you guys voting for?

    truthnjustice (3d65f9)

  5. B. Hussein is flat-out, a leftist lawyer, with virtually no real world experience. His head is full of academic theories but very little else.

    The Messiah with a Thin Resume grew up and marianted with radicals, communists, socialists, terrorists, anarchists and muslims. He is a joke.

    He is weak and feminized and fitting for the Oprah types in Hollywood.

    Nes (f6cafd)

  6. 5- If you change around a few words you could spell out Ailin’-Palin’s resume. Change leftist and lawyer (I think that a law degree is a good thing to have, personally). No experience. Weak-minded. etc.

    truthnjustice (3d65f9)

  7. Karl!! Kudos for hard hitting reporting on your part!! Good job on showing the FACTS against Obama. I like how you call it the “closing arguments” against him just like we were in a jury trial!! I wish it was a trial so the “defendents” McCain and Palin could get a hard earned victory right away.

    Go Republicans!! Go McCain and Palin!!!!

    Lazlo Toth (2ec40c)

  8. An outstanding effort, I read it once for detail and then a second time for effectiveness.

    Then, I read it a third time as would a left of center reader (as best as I could assume the role).

    It passed the first two tests with flying colors. However, the third reading left me wanting…more, somehow.

    What might need more detail, is “why” is Ayers important, why is Wright important, why is Klonsky important, why is the New Party important, why is Frank Marshall Davis important, why is the funneling of monies into radicalizing schoolchildren important.

    I say this with utmost admiration and respect for the authors. I think that left of center Americans who have ANY conscience, will not be moved or swayed by certain items.

    I believe they will not be moved or swayed by the lack of experience argument. It is sound, it is solid, it is true and it is meaningful. But it will not resonate. For whatever reason, it simply won’t gain traction.

    Similarly, I believe his willingness to speak without preconditions with enemies of state will not resonate with left of center voters. They will not view “dialogue” as a threat, because the argument against it can’t attach enough of a horrific outcome for them to get their arms around.

    If the “swing center” does not get “moved” by issues that resonate with them, then the rest of the argument is simply reinforcing for a base that is already decided.

    What would resonate with fair minded “moderates”, centrists, independents and the “swing” center?

    1) Bullying, intimidation, threats, scare tactics, the “fairness” doctrine, choking off dissent, hiding or secreting documents, …all of the “hard leftist” agitprop and malignant class and racial warfare strategies.

    2)Reckless taxation. Reading the tax code to voters is audio-Sominex. Trying to explain in detail capital gains and inheritance issues…basically droning on about death and taxes…won’t work. How will it hurt me? Why is it bad. Period.

    3)Foreign policy, not foreign politics. If you love Israel, or even if you believe merely in loyalty to an ally…you can’t ignore the hair curling assemblage of Walt and Mearshiemer players on Obama’s team. Nor could you dismissively ignore Malley meeting with Hamas, Jesse Jackson’s statement about the “Zionists” losing power, the ties to Rashid Khalidi and Edward Said.

    Even if you loved being liberal, you would have to love it above everything else, to avert your gaze from the signs and signals here. If you love Israel or support it…why would you even take the risk, that there is no fire…where there is clearly a lot of smoldering going on here.

    4)The economy. Until two years ago, the stock market was fine, most of our fundamentals were fine, really…not a big issue. Fannie/Freddie have been the primary reason for this current crisis. This needs to be laid out in a step by step process. Without the mortgage mess, there is no crisis. Period. Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson, Barney Frank and Dodd…are tied to one of the candidates. Intimately.

    5)Voter fraud. Yes, yes…I know..it’s currently voter REGISTRATION fraud. But, any system that allows for an intentional disruption of the way in which we elect our representatives and that chaos is supported and championed by one of the candidates…needs to be exposed.

    Finally…and perhaps most importantly…media conspiracy. If our information stream is so hijacked that we can’t get “news”…and when we do it is corrupted with forged documents, photoshopped photograpsh, intentionally omitted details and replete with hatchet jobs in one direction and puff pieces in the other…then we are being denied the very information we need to make decisions on how to self-govern this land of ours.

    No moderate, independent, traditional liberal, or centrist needs to…or wants to be spoonfed his opinions…much less forcefed a pack of lies of omission and commission. There ought to be a reflexive resistance to this.

    Outstanding work by Ed, Guy and Mary Katherine. My kudos for their efforts. But, if the election is to be moved, it must be moved in the middle. You can’t convince the far left of anything, they have no conscience. The base, by now…has been solidified. Move the middle, by appealing to what matters to them.

    cfbleachers (991d6b)

  9. Why do the Obamatons keep comparing Obama’s experience to Palin’s? Obama’s not running for vice-president, is he?

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  10. This is so incredibly sad. The HA link will only be slightly effective for those who weren’t planning on voting. Independents/moderate Dems aren’t going to be swayed, except perhaps on abortion. To get more turnout you need, to be frank, fear.

    And, to sway non-conservatives you need to show that BHO isn’t qualified. A plan to do that is at my name’s link. Note that your leaders aren’t pushing that but instead are wasting your time suggesting you freep polls.

    How to Defeat Barack Obama (eae9f5)

  11. A hard left statist with a Messianic cult following and unbridled power. What’s not to like?

    Hey, do we really need that 22nd Amendment still? Or the 2nd or 3rd or 9th or 10th? We could really tighten this thing right up. Oh, and that 1st Amendment could use some clarification, too.

    Kevin (805c5b)

  12. Karl,

    I’m glad you linked your June 2008 Protein Wisdom post. It’s an excellent overview of Obama’s history.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  13. Here is a guy that can not get a security clearance but may be elected president.

    Joe - Dallas (d7c430)

  14. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/21/2008 @ 11:20 am

    Can’t make up my mind.
    Completely torn between Cythia McKinney, and Ralph Nader.

    Comment by Rob Crawford — 10/21/2008 @ 11:47 am

    Obama is unqualified to be Vice-President!

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  15. I think it’s sad to see so many “conservatives” spending time trying to convince people not to vote for Obama. Conservatism is an ideology as is Liberalism. Both have pros and cons for that matter. If you had a strong candidate you would speak of his strengths rather than the next mans weaknesses. McCain had several months to lay out an action plan that would have set the tone for this election season. He didn’t. That is how Republicans may lose this election. They ran a poor one. On paper, they should have no issues sustaining the demo map of 2004. The seasoned Republicans know it and that’s what is disappointing to many of them. I hope conservatives don’t look to Palin as a savior. She may inspire conservatives and extremists, but not many others.

    No party affiliation (75a322)

  16. Oh, look, a new tack from the mobys!

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  17. …and as usual, 24ahead spam posts the same “solution” that 24ahead hasn’t even tried, for to do so would illustrate its futility.

    The reason Joe the Plumber got so much pub was that it was one of the few times Obama had contact with someone who disagrees with him. And that only happened because Obama approached Joe. The rest of the nation of Joes will not be in a position to engage Obama in a dialog.

    Karl (f07e38)

  18. While this is a powerful tool to have available in one place, sadly I believe that THE most critical issue surrounding an Obama Presidency is missing: Obama’s willingness to profoundly limit our freedom of speech.

    Whether through
    – direct threats of triggering governmental investigations (DOJ or IRS) or
    – suppression of political campaign contributions to opposing candidates and organizations through intimidation or
    – through “truth squads” of county sheriffs and prosecutors, or
    – encouraging supporters to “get aggressive” and “get in the faces” of non-supporters, or
    – physical assaults against McCain/Palin supporters, or
    – intimidation through denouncing anyone who opposes him as doing it for reasons of racism, or
    – denouncing specific news organizations (e.g.Fox News) by name for dampening his popular support, or
    – causing evidence found on the web of prior statements, behaviors and stances to disappear, or
    – prohibiting the display of signs and banners at his rallies other than those provided by the campaign itself, or
    – the looming reimposition of the “Fairness Doctrine” through legislation rather than beureaucratic fiat

    Once the people of this nation are actively intimidated into silence and submission, the floodgates of progressive programs will begin and face no visible opposition.

    Ask the Germans and Russians and citizens of Eastern Europe about their ability to restrain the excesses of their authoritarian governments under the Nazis and Soviets.

    Our most fundamental right is being actively threatened by a Presidential candidate and seemingly nobody notices or cares. I pray for the future of our nation.

    in_awe (bc82df)

  19. Comment by No party affiliation — 10/21/2008 @ 12:09 pm

    If only there were a Liberal running for President.
    Thomas Jefferson I could vote for.
    The current crop of Leftists, not a chance.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  20. Nice post, but living in MA where we keep returning those embarrassments Frank, Kennedy and Kerry to national office, fat lot of good it’s going to do me to share it with anyone around here.

    Good luck to those living in the more normal parts of the country!

    Dave (037445)

  21. In reading the Monterey County (CA)Herald’s recommendation of Barrack Hussein Obama for president, I was left wondering why the Herald proffered their endorsement. No where in the text of their endorsement did the Herald bother to outline what qualified this man to become our president. If one’s only qualification is “Potential” then that would exclude almost no one. I am wondering with all the well documented race rhetoric from Obama’s defenders why the Herald would deem that “Inclusive” Obama assumes that because a person is Black that such person would prefer him, is that not racist? Proscribes from the Obama camp to those that take issue with his pronouncements come in the form of racial accusations. To look past Obama’s involvement in Black Liberation Theology is very dangerous and flies in the face of the word inclusion. When Obama issues the word “Change” in his diatribe it is a synonym for Socialism. The children of the 60’s children, have arrived with vocal protestations in support of this ideology and have found “The One” which will give them what their parents tried to bomb into reality. Social upheaval. Do I expect this letter to be published?..no, and why? because the Herald is a part of this socialist agenda. All one needs to do is read the factless and emotional endorsement this paper has given to an accomplishment challenged candidate for president of the United States of America

    Joe Verm (ff9589)

  22. WHAT IF:
    Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around? Think about it.
    Would the country’s collective point of view be different? Could Racism be the culprit?

    Ponder the following:
    What if:
    the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?
    What if:
    John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
    What if
    Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

    What if:
    McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?
    Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?

    What if:
    Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

    Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?
    Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

    What if:
    Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as
    part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.) $300 Billion bailout was needed – sound familiar?

    What if:
    McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?
    What if Obama couldn’t read from a teleprompter?

    What if:
    Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

    What if:
    Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

    What if:
    Michelle Obama’s family had made their money from beer distribution?
    What if the Obama’s had adopted a white child?

    You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

    This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.

    Educational Background:

    Barack Obama:
    Columbia University – B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
    Harvard – Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

    Joseph Biden:
    University of Delaware – B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science
    Syracuse Univ College of Law – Juris Doctor (J.D.)
    Vs.

    John McCain:
    United States Naval Academy – Class rank: 894 of 899

    Sarah Palin:
    Hawaii Pacific University – 1 semester
    North Idaho College – 2 semesters – general study
    University of Idaho – 2 semesters – journalism
    Matanuska-Susitna College – 1 semester
    University of Idaho – 3 semesters – B.A. in Journalism

    Education isn’t everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world.

    You make the call. I don’t want to think about what if you don’t.
    VOTE!!!

    Mississippi Vet (11611d)

  23. Karl writes: …and as usual, 24ahead spam posts the same “solution” that 24ahead hasn’t even tried, for to do so would illustrate its futility.

    First, I did try to ask BHO a question almost two years ago, and I have asked other powerful people real questions, so Karl is wrong there.

    Second, comments like that are like something that the BHO campaign would write. Why would someone who claims to oppose BHO try to dissuade people from about the only thing that would prevent him from becoming president?

    If enough people tried, eventually someone would be able to ask BHO a question, either at a rope line, when he’s entering or leaving an event, or at a Q&A session (he has and might still be holding such events).

    The reader is invited to speculate why this site suggests futile activities (freeping polls) and tries to dissuade people from doing something that would actually work.

    How to Defeat Barack Obama (eae9f5)

  24. If you change around a few words you could spell out Ailin’-Palin’s resume.

    So you’re saying that your candidate for president is every bit as qualified as our candidate for vice president. Well played.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  25. truthnjustice – except Einstein, Palin is not running for President, duh!

    Palin is lightly experienced; Barry “madrassa boy” Hussein Obambi is also lightly experienced.

    Palin is a sitting governor and former mayor.

    Barry “the magic negro” Hussein Obambi had about 1 1/2 yrs experience in the Senate before running for the White House. As Palin bbq’ed him at the RNC, running for the presidency isn’t a journey of self actualization and discovery. Gag me. That nonsense is for the Hollywood limp-wrists.

    Furthermore truthnjustice (aka, Einstein), Palin has much more REAL WORLD AND REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE than an affirmative action, Ivy League lawyer, with Marxist and muslim sympathies. Duh.

    Go Sarah Go!

    Nes (f6cafd)

  26. The Case For John McCain might have been better.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  27. The Case For John McCain might have been better.

    So might your troll attempts.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  28. Remember when Republicans ran campigns like this, Jim:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-IBF8nwSY

    Reminds me of an Obama ad.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  29. It is interesting to note that Joe Biden characterized Barrack Hussein Obama as having “Steel in his spine” when it comes to staring down the enemy, well hopefully “The enemy” does not have a pack of smokes in their hands as “Steel spine Obama” does not have the spine to kick his nicotine habit!

    Joe Verm (ff9589)

  30. Is this really going to happen, A President that has lived a cocaine life, gives “fist bumps” and “shout outs” to his constituents, has “gangsta rap” on his I-Pod and has never worked a day in his life!!!! what in God’s name is going on in this country. When Barrack Hussein Obama was 8 ( as he often refers to this age when speaking of his buddy Ayers who was plying his terrorists skills and BHO was only 8 years of age)he was in Muslim training and Mr. McCain was rotting in a Vietnamese prison, and look who this country is leaning toward, THAT my friends tells you where we are going. Thank GOD in his infinite wisdom that we do not live forever.

    Joe Verm (ff9589)

  31. So might your troll attempts.

    You’re giving credit for actually reaching the base level of Trolldom – but it doesn’t pass the test on that score. Incomprehensible stupidity perhaps, but still below the basic incompetence level.

    Dmac (f11dda)

  32. truthnjustice

    Did you or did you not just post the following diatribe earlier today?

    None of you can claim to be the responsible, thoughtful republicans. Ninety-five percent of the people that comment on here are raging, babbling, psychotic, homoerotic, clowns. Obama is a terrorist, racist, communist, socialist, white supremecist, catholic, muslim, jew… I think I have read it all on here.

    You are one sorry sack of sh-t, my friend. Time for you to leave, methinks – and pronto.

    Dmac (f11dda)

  33. Racists

    And JerrySpringer is an asshat.

    JD (5f0e11)

  34. Dmac – I don’t consider myself a clown.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  35. Our country is on the brink, from being the “shot caller” around the world we are going to place ourselves to the “Back of the line” courtesy of all these limp wristed Libs and That Bastard Obama, yes, that’s correct the man is a bastard. Bastard is a term given to someone born out of wedlock. Obama’s daddy already had a dozen wives back in Africa so his “Marriage” to the broodmare that birthed him was null and void. So we are to be led by a cocaine sniffing, Bastard. This elite Lib will never ever be recognized by me as anything other than a chump who’s never held a real job. What a pathetic loser.

    Joe Verm (ff9589)

  36. I turned it off after the first video took an out-of-context comment about general contraception options, and positioned it to look like he was talking exclusively about abortion.

    Dirty stuff — more of the same that’s been coming out of the McCain camp for the past month and a half.

    I really hope this (and all the other BS like it) flops, and Obama becomes president. If it does, I hope you all look back over the past month and a half, and feel ashamed at about the opportunity you lost — the opportunity to actually advocate true conservative values, and the reasons for them, rather than simply shooting attacks and smears at your opposition.

    If you win doing this kind of crap, God help us.

    Phil (3b1633)

  37. Phil – You’re absolutely right. It’s dirty and a smear to play back Obama’s own words on a video clip. How low can people not affiliated with the McCain campaign go!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  38. Wow- tried to read through this blog and am amazed at the things I’m reading. One can indeed be conservative AND still be a democratic person.
    This blog is full of haters and a distinct lack of openmindedness to others ways of thinking.
    Forget all of the He said/He said crap because it’s just that, crap. Delve into ANYONES life and you’ll find something to pick on. This is a blog best left unread- too many haters. Someone seriously used the term bastard- isn’t that similar to “Oh no, she’s pregnant, better get married” ?? It’s closed minded, non-partnering type thinking that gets people in messes like the USA is in right now- OPEN your minds, TALK to each other- THINK about why someone wants things differently than you do and then COMPROMISE.
    You’d be amazed.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  39. ps- the term “negro” is SO over Joe Vern- what decade do you live in???

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  40. The Leftists have their own language.

    This blog is full of haters and a distinct lack of openmindedness to others ways of thinking.

    Translates to – You stupid ignert racist inbread hicks should listen to me.

    OPEN your minds, TALK to each other- THINK about why someone wants things differently than you do and then COMPROMISE.

    Translates to having ideals and principles is oh so passe, better to not have any guiding principles so you can go with the flow, reach easy consensus, and declare everyone else and idiot.

    JD (c69925)

  41. But, if the election is to be moved, it must be moved in the middle. You can’t convince the far left of anything, they have no conscience. The base, by now…has been solidified. Move the middle, by appealing to what matters to them.

    Great observation. At this late in the game, it’s anybody’s guess what it exactly is that will resonate with the middle.

    Dana (658c17)

  42. Dana – At this point, if someone is truly undecided, do you think that they even deserve to vote?

    JD (c69925)

  43. Interesting reply JD and it completely shows what I’m trying to describe. What is it that makes you think your translation of my words is correct?
    I would have said ignorant, racist, inbread hicks if that is what I meant to say. What I said was there is a distinct lack of openmindendness. Why do you assume another version?
    Opening ones mind, talking, thinking and compromising do work and people with “ideals and principles” can do this as well as people without your specific set of principles. I haven’t declared anyone an idiot. Why do you feel your reply needed to state that? Why are you assuming “more complete” thoughts on my behalf?
    You are way off base JD and this is how people get into trouble with communication.

    DonnaM (bfcf45)

  44. DonnaM,

    When you appear to say that this blog should not be read because it has too many haters, don’t be shocked if no one takes your pretense to openmindedness seriously.

    Plus, not everyone consorts with unrepentant domestic terrorists. Not everyone spends 20 years and $20,000 with a radical, race-baiting church. If you want to find a real hater, go chat up the Rev. Wright sometime.

    Karl (1b4668)

  45. JD, I understand your point. I’m not convinced there are actually any real undecideds left but I do think McCain can still appeal to average voters who are just now slowly getting a clue as to the blatant socialism Obama will introduce to our country and see that in light of Obama, McCain’s ‘socialism’ is a much lesser degree, if you will. Grasping at straws? Maybe.

    Dana (658c17)

  46. What the hell is going on? Is the whole Obama camp now hiding out? Obama finds a sudden need to hang with a typical white person and Gaffer Joe is sequestered so that he doesn’t have to answer to his stupid yet truthful statements.

    Bfidler (e6db0a)

  47. Karl, thanks for your thoughts. I would have completely agreed with your observation that I was closed minded about the blog- but, then, you ruined it by throwing in the bit about Rev. Wright. I grew up in a “Christian” Church with very open NON-Christian thinking- funny how no one mentions those folks- only Rev. Wright because of sound bites- have you made time to know him before throwing out that type of commment?
    And, please let me know where I mentioned anything about anyone consorting with terrorists. At the risk of repeating myself, which I’m happy to do, what did that comment have to do with what I wrote? Nothing man….if you want a new topic, go for it, but please don’t attach it to my conversation without some sort of connection or flow to the whole thing. Looks more like someone ranting.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  48. Donna – If your mind is truly open, why not cross over to the “dark syde” and embrace conservative principles? At least we believe in something apart from political expediency.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  49. Bfidler- Obama IS a typical white person and- a typical black person. What is with you folks in the USA and all your need to people??

    Can’t he just be talking with a person in the crowd?

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  50. correction- “need to LABEL” people

    for post above.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  51. DonnaM – I don’t want to put words in Karl’s mouth, but the examples he gave, Wright and Ayers, I believe were intended to show that the haters are very much on the other team.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  52. daleyrocks- I never said I wasn’t a conservative person- I was simply observing truly whacked posts. Dark syde? Light side? We’re all really on the same side in the end- just a matter of caring how we get where we need to go.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  53. DonnaM, you wrote:

    Delve into ANYONES life and you’ll find something to pick on.

    But not on the level of consorting with people like Ayers, Dohrn, Wright, Pfleger, etc. That’s what my response is to your initial comment.

    As for Rev. Wright and black liberation theology, I know them better than most.

    Karl (1b4668)

  54. Post by DonnaM @ 5:06 PM is full of non sequiters and ad hominem attacks, including the complete and utter contradiction of “This is a blog best left unread” followed by “OPEN your minds, TALK to each other”.

    That’s what we’re doing here, Ms. Donna. Feel free to actually engage.

    Icy Truth (84d054)

  55. See, this is what confuses me. Folks like DonnaM talk about being open-minded and seeking compromise, but I’m not sure they mean the same thing I do. The linked article is a perfect opportunity for her to learn “why someone wants things differently” and she says it’s all hatey and stuff.

    Open your own mind, Donna! This is really what we THINK. Not code words. Not hatred. Not racism. We THINK this stuff matters.

    Will you at least attempt to compromise? I understand if you won’t vote for McCain; but could you please compromise and NOT vote for Obama?

    That’d be terrific. Thanks.

    Pious Agnostic (b2c3ab)

  56. If you compromise on your principles, were they really principles?

    This blog is full of haters and a distinct lack of openmindedness to others ways of thinking.

    This sentence shows an incredible amount of open-mindedness on your part. So, all are supposed to be open-minded to you, but not vice versa?

    have you made time to know him before throwing out that type of commment?

    DonnaM – Karl has prolly written more comprehensively on Rev. Wright than anyone in the blogosphere. So he does not state that from an uneducated position.

    Delve into ANYONES life and you’ll find something to pick on. This is a blog best left unread- too many haters

    So the delve into ANYONES life and you’ll find something to pick on was not in reference to Ayers or Wright?

    I love Donna’s view of open-mindedness. You must be open minded to her views, but she can dismiss yours out of hand.

    JD (c69925)

  57. Haters everywhere man- that’s the problem with this earth. Too many people pointing fingers and not enough people just getting sh*t done.
    I don’t care what “side” someone is on- I care that people start to work together. Things are a mess- no more time for sides- just fixing things together. I may not agree with someones specific principles or ways of doing something as they may not agree with me. But, the art of compromise and REAL effort to work together is the only way to get out of the mess everyone is in.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  58. BTW, the assertion that conservatives are the ones who need to afix labels is hilarious — or would be, IF it weren’t so patently untrue.

    Icy Truth (84d054)

  59. DonnaM, most of the haters being discussed here are friends of Obama.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  60. #55 – JD

    I love Donna’s view of open-mindedness. You must be open minded to her views, but she can dismiss yours out of hand.

    — Just like Obama’s ability to strike deals with the other side of the aisle; his idea of “compromise” is for the other side to agree to his terms.

    Icy Truth (84d054)

  61. If compromise and seeking to work with others for the common good is really what you want, then only one candidate actually has a record of doing this, and the other candidate votes his party line. It’s the haters man on this earth.

    That, and the Hippies. Mostly the Hippies.

    Pious Agnostic (b2c3ab)

  62. Donna M:

    Someone seriously used the term bastard- isn’t that similar to “Oh no, she’s pregnant, better get married” ?? It’s closed minded, non-partnering type thinking that gets people in messes like the USA is in right now …

    I don’t understand your point. Do you think marriage isn’t important even though studies show that children born outside marriage are at a great disadvantage compared to children with married parents? Or is your point that it’s politically incorrect to argue marriage has benefits?

    And what is “non-partnering type thinking”?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  63. I wonder what DonnaM thinks Obama has ever gotten done, outside getting himself elected to public office. The PW link in the main post make painfully clear how badly Obama fails on that score. I don’t care much for Mccain, either, but he can at least point to a more bipartisan record on hot-button issues.

    Karl (1b4668)

  64. typical- I write one post, and then repost stating that I was being closed minded but no one bothers to comment or acknowledge that part.

    I did not say that I expected people to be open minded about ME- just open minded in general and look what happens.

    No real dialogue- just crap thrown back. Could be timing of posts and replies. Could be that there are nutballs out there. Could be anything.

    My main point is that while finger pointing NO ONE IS GETTING ANYTHING DONE.

    And, folks, I never said I wasn’t voting for McCain. Nor did I say I was voting for Obama.
    I was merely observing the nasty nature of the blog….

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  65. DonnaM, the idea that “something needs to be done” is fatuous in and of itself.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  66. My main point is that while finger pointing NO ONE IS GETTING ANYTHING DONE.

    Oh, well, we can agree on that at any rate. Happens every four years in this country.

    Pious Agnostic (b2c3ab)

  67. DonnaM – Where has Baracky actually demonstrated the ability to bring the Left and Right together?

    The idea that the Right is obsessed with labels made Mountain Dew come out my nose. The party of identity politics is most certainly not the right, DonnaM.

    Haters everywhere man

    Does “haters” mean people that do not knod in agreement at my platitudes?

    JD (c69925)

  68. Donna M,

    Is your problem with the blog posts or the comments? If it’s the blog posts, please provide specific examples of what you consider nasty.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  69. blahblahnotreallysayinganythingblahblahblahmorenonsequitersblahblahblahmaybeyoucouldstateanopinionnotaboutusortheblogingeneralbutabouththesubjectofthethreadthenadialoguewillensueblahblahblah

    Icy Truth (84d054)

  70. And, folks, I never said I wasn’t voting for McCain. Nor did I say I was voting for Obama.

    You didn’t have to. The touchy-feely nature of your comments clearly point to where your beliefs lie.

    I was merely observing the nasty nature of the blog….

    In Leftist speak, disagreeing with a Leftist is nasty, and makes you a hater.

    JD (c69925)

  71. I don’t understand your point. Do you think marriage isn’t important even though studies show that children born outside marriage are at a great disadvantage compared to children with married parents? Or is your point that it’s politically incorrect to argue marriage has benefits?

    And what is “non-partnering type thinking”?

    Comment by DRJ — 10/21/2008 @ 5:55 pm

    DRJ- again, assumptions being jumped at. I am simply stating that being a “bastard” is a ridiculous thing. Lots of people “had” to get married- stay married for the sake of the children and then get divorced because they never loved the person-just knocked them up. Obama was raised in a loving home. His father was from a different culture than (y)ours. That doesn’t make it wrong- just different.
    I choose marriage- it is not part of this discussion but you asked about my feelings.
    Obama was just born into his specific circumstance- my point was that the original poster is attaching that to his character. He’s married with children, so we know how he feels.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  72. jd- don’t hate me because I’m “touchy feely”- I just don’t choose your style of communication. I have not said I am conservative, nor have I said I’m liberal or a hater. I just said this blog was feeling hateful and feel there are more important things to talk about- like the election or the war or the mess of the money or or or…

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  73. gotta run, you’ve been most amusing.
    Peace- out

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  74. DonnaM – Nobody hates you, no matter how many times you assert that we do. We just hope that your ideas do not govern our country.

    JD (c69925)

  75. I thought Donna started this by pointing her finger here.

    DON’T JUDGE ME DONNA!

    DON’T YOU DARE JUDGE ME, HATER!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  76. DON’T JUDGE ME DONNA!

    DON’T YOU DARE JUDGE ME, HATER!

    JD (c69925)

  77. 😉

    JD (c69925)

  78. We weren’t talking about the election?

    And DonnaM scurries away, having declared there are “too many haters” here, giving a single comment as an example.

    Karl (1b4668)

  79. JD – Copycat

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  80. just had to duck back in…never thought anyone hated me. Didn’t type that folks. Didn’t type that I hate or judge anyone here.

    Here’s to hoping for peace, financial stability and good health for all- now I KNOW you can agree with that no matter which road you choose to get there!

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  81. Dana
    The five points I outlined can move the middle. I chose the “near left” as the place to extend out to, because, if I want to rake in the chips, I want to go out as far as the winning hand allows. Beyond that, there are no chips to rake in. If I reach short of that, however, I don’t get all that I might.

    JD and Dana

    Yes, I believe there are still swing voters out there. Believe it or not, some people don’t get their information from the blogs, they get it from TV and/or newspapers and some don’t have cable or don’t watch it.

    Since THAT coverage is shallow, one-sided and corrupt…garbage in, garbage out.

    I also think that many, many, many people simply float around the periphery of politics and get “sound bite” knowledge of the issues. They vote based upon the bits and pieces they know and generally drift with the tides.

    Lastly, I think there are people who still aren’t sure about what is real and what is imagined with Senator Obama. If you overload them with too much detail, their eyes will glaze over. Hell, there are people here who won’t read a long comment. And presumably, they come here to engage in the depths of the debate on issues.

    Therefore, in order to get them information they don’t have, upon which they would likely perk up and the particulars of which might resonate with them…those issues need to be defined, tightened and delivered in a clear, concise, articulate and truthful manner.

    I outlined what they were as I see it. The movement is in the middle. It’s time to fill their need for accurate information.

    cfbleachers (991d6b)

  82. not scurrying Karl, I have to attend to other parts of my life. Have a kid to feed…and a husband, so no comments about my “choices”- please.

    DonnaM (2b3b9e)

  83. Am I the only one who caught DonnaM saying this:

    Bfidler- Obama IS a typical white person and- a typical black person. What is with you folks in the USA and all your need to people??

    Can’t he just be talking with a person in the crowd?

    Comment by DonnaM — 10/21/2008 @ 5:45 pm

    Any bets on what country DonnaM is in/from?

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  84. Q: What’s black and white and red all over?
    A: Obama!

    Official Internet Data Office (bb7744)

  85. Meanwhile, the Democrats are showing what slime they are in my local state house district race. The Democrat just put out a mailer that claimed that a judge “was forced” to enter a TRO against the GOP candidate.

    A TRO has almost no evidentiary burden to obtain, and are automatically entered in this state when one initially files for divorce or legal separation.

    Dishonest Democrat … but I apologize for the redundancy.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  86. As if on cue:

    Haters.

    Karl (1b4668)

  87. DonnaM chose to leave without making a single cogent comment on the topic at hand.

    Icy Truth (84d054)

  88. Have a kid to feed…and a husband, so no comments about my “choices”- please.

    Just another drive – by Troll; they come and spew provocative and incendiary posts, then backtrack furiously when called on them…and then feign “family committments,” and slink away.

    Just one time I’d like to see these folks actually stick around and attempt to explain themselves – but shadows are more lasting than these chalk outlines on the road pavement.

    Dmac (f11dda)

  89. #86 Icy Truth:

    DonnaM chose to leave without making a single cogent comment on the topic at hand.

    And before I had chance to point out that

    We’re all really on the same side in the end-

    is ludicrous drivel, and NO! we aren’t!Some of us believe that human dignity and freedom are important things, and that they don’t come about by “hope” and “change” alone.

    Let alone at the hands of a pol whose claim to distinguishment from the typical is his atypically socialist views.

    EW1(SG) (ec2899)

  90. Anyone care to bet who DonnaM would be voting for, were she to live in the US ?

    The real JD (c69925)

  91. #90 JD:

    Anyone care to bet who DonnaM would be voting for, were she to live in the US ?

    Sure!

    Whaddya mean, you’ve already covered that? Does that mean I can’t bet that she’s gonna…

    It does, huh?

    EW1(SG) (ec2899)

  92. EW1 – I got a good chuckle out of that comment where she tried to play it off that she was not a McCain supporter, and then said that she hadn’t stated that she was a Baracky supporter. As if there was any doubt …

    JD (c69925)

  93. Comment by JD — 10/21/2008 @ 8:53 pm

    I really think she would be more comfortable with Cynthia McKinny.
    The Oh is probably just this side of too rational for her.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  94. ____________________________________

    I saw the following in today’s LA Times, regarding a well-known politician of the left (and, natch, of the Democrat Party) who was given the task of running a major city in Northern California.

    As I was reading about the guy, I wondered if aspects of his story are sort of a preview of—a window into—Barack Obama. Except Obama would be the head of something far bigger, far more important. Namely, the United States.

    God help us.

    It started out like any other Subway sandwich shop — bright, open, accessible. Then the gunmen showed up, three times in 30 days. Owner Manoj Tripathi closed up shop, fearing for his workers’ safety. He didn’t reopen until a ceiling-high barrier had been built for their protection.

    In searching for blame, Tripathi turns to former Rep. Ronald V. Dellums, who took office as mayor nearly two years ago in this embattled and changing Bay Area metropolis.

    The septuagenarian rode to office on lofty talk of transforming Oakland into a “model 21st century city” of universal healthcare, green jobs, affordable housing and an unprecedented call to civic action.

    But to Tripathi, those are just empty words, “social engineering.”

    “Last year, when this was happening, Ron Dellums says no one wants to put too much police on the streets and make it a police state,” Tripathi recalled, indignant. “I’m saying, ‘Ron Dellums, you were elected to clean the streets, to have less crime, to clean the garbage. That’s what a mayor does.’ ”

    Nearly halfway through Dellums’ first term, Oakland is in a state of near municipal meltdown.

    A string of high-profile restaurant robberies terrorized residents throughout the summer. The budget is $42 million in the red; service cuts and layoffs loom.

    The city administrator was fired July 1 amid allegations of nepotism and interfering with a police investigation. That critical position remains unfilled, as does the head of economic development. The police chief is on leave, caring for his sick wife, and is expected to step down. The fire chief retires in about a week.

    A website has cropped up calling for Dellums’ ouster, and nearly 1,000 have “signed” the unofficial online petition, which declares that “we cannot simply wait for the next election while our ‘Silent Mayor’ lets the city deteriorate.”

    Warranted or not, taking potshots at Dellums — a liberal lion who represented the region for 28 years in Congress and is known for impassioned oratory and a halo of white hair — has become something of a civic sport.

    Longtime Oakland-based political consultant Larry Tramutola calls this latest chapter in his city’s history “as difficult as any time, perhaps with the exception of the racial unrest of 30 years ago.”

    The problem, he said, is “lax leadership. I’m not just talking about the mayor’s office. But it is the most obvious.” Dellums was “clearly, clearly, unprepared for the job.”

    ____________________________________

    Mark (e37da1)

  95. Donna is obviously not from this country or she has her head firmly planted in her rear. She didn’t recognize that “typical white person” was Obama’s words, not mine.HE is the one who brought race into the picture.

    Bfidler (a135af)

  96. Comment by Mark — 10/21/2008 @ 9:19 pm

    Poor Oakland!
    For, There is no there, there.
    And the Mayor is Ronald “Red” Dellums, who proudly carries on in the tradition established by the previous Mayor, Jerry “MoonBeam” Brown, who is thinking of running for Governor again to replace Arnold.
    Heaven Help Us!

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  97. I had suspicions Barack would have “gansta-rap” music on his I pod. Learn more through this posts than watching the liberal media. Someone wrote in the WHAT IFs questions, he/she neglected to ask: What If McCain had done drugs like Barack, what if McCain had been associated with a domestic terrorist, (probably still is), what if McCain had attended a church where the norm was to trash the U.S. and I could go on and on… God save us from a Barack/Biden office. Had I wanted to live in a corrupt country, I would’ve stayed in Central America. Just wish Ayers and the Lady with the accent, Adrianna Huffington??? would get out of the US. She should try to go make changes in her own birth place.

    Liz (d34e47)

  98. Well said, Liz. There is absolutely no way that McCain or anyone else the Republicans could trot out would have made it anywhere this close to the Presidency if they had the laundry list of indiscretions as Barack the leftist. The media is doing such a great job of covering up Obama’s elitist illuminati misgivings that he just might actually win this race.

    Jeff (86606e)

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