Patterico's Pontifications

10/21/2008

Dallas County Votes on a New Hospital

Filed under: 2008 Election,Immigration — DRJ @ 4:16 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Dallas County, Texas, voters will be voting for more than a President on November 4. They will also vote on a new charity hospital to replace the overcrowded Parkland Hospital. The new hospital will cost an estimated $1.3B of which $747M will come from public funds, although the actual ballot doesn’t tell voters how much the project will cost.

As the election approaches, Texas newspapers have run stories about problems filling routine prescriptions, 19-hour waits to be seen, and at least one death that may be related to overcrowded conditions at the existing Parkland Hospital.

A November 2004 study found that the large demand on Dallas County hospitals was due to the growth of the Hispanic community (page 23 at the link). Parkland Hospital is the area’s leading provider of hospital care for uninsured patients, 20% of which were “undocumented immigrants” (page 27). Dallas is more than 400 miles from the Mexican border so, unlike border towns like El Paso, illegal immigrants who need hospital care in Dallas are probably residents in the area.

Because of economic factors as well as anticipated enhancements in border security and immigration enforcement, the November 2004 study concluded illegal immigrant patients would remain static for the next 10 years. In other words, it forecast 20% or more of Parkland Hospital patients would be illegal immigrants.

However, the trend may not be as static as the study forecasts. For example, in the first quarter of 2006, 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland admitted they were illegal immigrants. The good news for Dallas County taxpayers is they don’t have to foot the entire bill. The bad news for American taxpayers is they do:

“At Parkland, birthing babies has become a moneymaking venture. In 2004, the hospital spent $70.7 million delivering 15,938 babies but ended the year with a $7.9 million surplus in obstetrics.

The positive bottom line resulted from a hefty infusion of Medicaid funds, about $34.5 million, to cover the delivery costs for the undocumented women. Dallas County taxpayers also kicked in $31.3 million, or about 40 percent of the total obstetrics costs, and the federal government paid an additional $9.5 million to make up for the hospital’s high percentage of patients on Medicaid, the state-federal insurance program for the poor.”

Parkland’s President and CEO has acknowledged that Dallas County “property taxes are sky-high because you’re paying for people who don’t have medical insurance,” and Dallas County residents seem almost certain to pay for a new hospital since there has been little opposition to the hospital bond.

If illegal immigration has had this impact on charity hospitals, just imagine what it’s done to American schools.

— DRJ

77 Responses to “Dallas County Votes on a New Hospital”

  1. What’s the pro-life position here?

    snuffles (677ec2)

  2. Shut up, sniffles.

    DRJ – I am quite sure that your post was inherently racist 😉

    JD (c69925)

  3. I would think the pro-lifers would be happy to kick in a few extra bucks for healthy baby-birthing, JD.

    Same for the schools.

    You disagree?

    snuffles (677ec2)

  4. snuffles – It doesn’t sound like you own property or pay property tax. You never answered the question about whether you pay income taxes. Do you?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  5. This is the problem that no one in the pro – blanket amnesty community dare speak of. It would appear that the problem is even worse in other border states like CA, whose unfunded medical liabilities are fast outpacing an already strained hospital system. The problem here in Chicago is more of the non – profit hospitals shoving the uninsured into the County system, which is already millions in arrears. One way or the other, we all end up paying the tab.

    Dmac (f11dda)

  6. You never answered the question about whether you pay income taxes. Do you?

    Or answered other basic questions like:

    – married or single
    – college educated (or currently in college)
    – career (or currently working in the gov’t)
    – age
    – locale

    Dmac (f11dda)

  7. snuffles – Since the people in question are in our in our country illegally, wouldn’t you agree that the smart thing to do, especially in these shaky financial times, would be to deport both mother and spawn directly from the materity ward?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  8. sniffles will never answer any of your questions. He/she/it has too much fun obliterating strawpeople.

    JD (c69925)

  9. I work at a public school and last week I received an email informing all staff that our district was participating in a coordinated program with Rosetta Stone to learn Spanish. We were told that in order to “effectively serve and meet the need of our Hispanic families and students”, this federally funded program is being offered and then we were strongly “encouraged” to participate…

    Our school site’s 08/09 budget for English Learners alone is $120K. Our school site’s entire operating budget – separate from ESL budget – is $45K.

    I could go on and on and on…

    Dana (658c17)

  10. snuffles:

    I would think the pro-lifers would be happy to kick in a few extra bucks for healthy baby-birthing

    This article illustrates how Texans fund hospitals and medical care that support life. We also need to be aware of the costs of illegal immigration so we can make informed decisions.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  11. DRJ – You are so kind, especially when it has demonstrated its complete lack of good faith, repeatedly.

    JD (c69925)

  12. Families that can’t afford the cost of another child can make “informed decisions” too, DRJ?

    Sounds good.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  13. looking forward for more information about this. thanks for sharing. Eugene

    Eugene (3995d1)

  14. Families that can’t afford the cost of another child can make “informed decisions” too, DRJ?

    Snuffles, are you just playing Socratic dialogue here, or do you have a position? Should we fully fund the healthy birth of illegal immigrant children or should we force their mothers into abortions? Where do you stand on all this?

    JVW (f93297)

  15. JVW – It is kind of like that troll alphie that used to hang out here. It never actually states a position, just pokes at issues from the Left, in a generally inane way.

    JD (c69925)

  16. snuffles – How much would you personally throw in the pot per illegal immigrant birth?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  17. snuffles,

    One of the links mentions an illegal immigrant mother who is grateful for the free obstetrical care in Dallas because otherwise she would have to go home to Mexico and pay $200 per birth. She’s made an informed choice. Surely you don’t want to deny US taxpayers the same informed choice?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  18. What choice is that, DRJ?

    Deny medical care to birthing mothers?

    snuffles (677ec2)

  19. Comment by Dana — 10/21/2008 @ 5:06 pm

    Actually having people who come to this country learn the lingua franca is too much of a leap for the Ed Community.
    We have to learn their language!
    What’s Spanish for Deportation?

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  20. snuffles,

    In my community, there is a consensus that we should deport criminal aliens and enforce laws that prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants. At the same time, we fund free medical care for illegal immigrants, including emergency care mandated by law as well as community-based preventive care for children and adults. Thus, we want to take care of the illegal immigrants that are here but limit the number of new ones.

    What does your community do?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  21. “Deny medical care to birthing mothers?”

    snuffles – Your compassion is overwhelming. In Obama’s world these women are already being punished by having a baby. Why add to their burdens?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  22. AD,

    To deport: Deportar or explusar.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  23. Headline: “NO BRAIN SCANS RELEASED IN BIDEN MEDICAL RECORDS.”

    No need for an MRI if there’s nothing there, right?

    Official Internet Data Office (bb7744)

  24. Dana 9: Wha? I think you made a typo or something. Your school site’s entire operating budget of $45k is about the salary of a single teacher.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  25. Aplomb, no typo. $45,000 is our site’s general budget. This pays for our subs, supplies, copious amounts of paper, warranties on copiers, tech stuff (unless we get a Microsoft grant), consumables, etc. IOW, the basics that keep a school humming. The district budget covers conferences (which are now minimal), perhaps travel expenses, staff salaries. Because of our demographic, we do not qualify Title funds, we do have an annual School Improvement budget which is earmarked to meet specific needs, all spelled out, no deviation from… Site budgets are determined by the student attendance population. EL budgets are a separate funding and of course based in great part on the number of English learners there are. There is a phenomenal amount of money in that budget district wide. And of course, federal money comes in to play. I don’t know the specifics of that, just what is at our site.

    Based on what I’ve seen at the semi-urban schools I’ve worked at in Cali, if a school is short supplies and/or money, its a case of mis-management rather than lacking the dollar. I don’t know of any administrators who would say otherwise.

    Comment by Another Drew — 10/21/2008 @ 6:28 pm

    Thanks for responding. Its unfortunate that the onus is on staff to learn English, not the reverse. In part of course it’s just p.c. nonsense. Another part however is how the system is set up: if there is money offered, spend it, utilize it – no matter what. If the next year’s budget is based upon what is spent this year, spend the entire amount to insure that at least the same amount will be doled out the next year – whether or not anything is justifiably needed. Specific to the post and EL classes, obviously the current trend of belief is that this is very needed.

    Dana (658c17)

  26. DRJ

    Then sell your cheap illegal immigrant built house, after all you don’t want to be associated with it – and don’t eat out or go to the grocery store – those cheap prices aren’t from our good friends at the grocers unions……

    You know its funny – first no real statistics are cited just some yellow or should I say brown journalism from the DMN. Gee someone said 70% or even if its 7 yes there are illegal immigrants in texas (you see now, everyone with a last name of Lopez is an illegal, despite the fact that Texas was hispanic for a century or two before the good Tennesseans came)

    Over the top embarassingly ugly, balanced on the knifes edge ole fashion Texas tolerance

    We invite them here – we want them here – we just don’t want to see em or pay em for their services

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  27. “…obviously the current trend of belief is that this is very needed.”

    Only for the fact that we, in our overall compassion and generosity (these can be whittled down to our stupidity) we refuse to send these people back from whence they came, which is what most of their originating governments would do if the positions were reversed.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  28. EricPWJohnson – Try reading the post dickhead. I didn’t see anything inflammatory there. What’s your problem?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  29. Daleyrocks

    I did

    Saw no facts just Texas Tolerance –

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  30. I admit that I was acting offensively under my own name. I apologize to the other readers, but not to the blind Mr. Johnson, who apparently is unable to recognize facts when they slap him in the face.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  31. The JD’s et al

    I’m all for enforcing our immigration statutes

    What I take offense is when a “Charity” or County Hospital – which has always had high unisured births – as well as all other medical procedures – and has allways had high illegal immigrants as customers –

    Rewraped as new news.

    Intellectual disengenious

    DRJ is free to live in a Union Built home in Texas – except there arn’t any cause no one pays more than 50 60 sq ft (okay here come the real estate listings)

    Feel sorry for the poor schmos in the east – they would kill for 50 60 dollars a sq ft and for the EXTREMELY low govt spending and Taxation in Texas

    DRJ in her sob story Tolerance post forgot to mention facts like TEXAS spends less than the other 49 states per capita

    just that little fact

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  32. EricPWJohnson,

    First, according to the linked newspaper report, the statistic on illegal births was based on a survey of all new mothers in Parkland Hospital during the first quarter of 2006. Seventy percent identified themselves as illegal immigrants.

    Second, I agree illegal immigrants have contributed to the Texas economy but they also burden it. Surely it’s not your position that we can discuss the pros of illegal immigration but not the cons?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  33. There was an incident involving someone pretending to be JD. I deleted all comments referring to it. It never happened. Let us now move on.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  34. You are a good man, Patterico.

    The real JD (c69925)

  35. For a racist 😉

    The real JD (c69925)

  36. Comment by EricPWJohnson — 10/21/2008 @ 8:45 pm

    Ain’t Federalism Grand?

    If you don’t like the social policies of a certain state, you should avoid going there.
    I am quite sure there are many citizens of TX who would never consider living in places like NY, CA, IL, MI, MA, all other things being equal.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  37. Comment by The real JD — 10/21/2008 @ 8:49 pm

    Well, that’s the JD we all know and love (gag).

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  38. My community does the same, DRJ.

    Though we take no actual steps that I know of to limit the number of illegals coming here.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  39. I wish I could build for $60 a square foot. Good Allah, Better Half is already trying to get John Edwards’ architect on the phone.

    JD (c69925)

  40. We invite them here – we want them here – we just don’t want to see em or pay em for their services

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    I knew someone invited them, Eric. Give me your address so I can send the bill.

    LA County Hospital, where I teach and where a brand new billon dollar hospital is opening this month, has about the same proportion of illegals.

    Texas is actually quite clever about the illegal problem. The Texas government is funded by sales tax, a tax that is paid equally by everyone, legal or otherwise. Too bad California isn’t the same.

    Californians would love to see 60 dollar houses but we still see our health care and education systems going under due to uncompensated care.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  41. “DRJ in her sob story Tolerance post forgot to mention facts like TEXAS spends less than the other 49 states per capita”

    EricPW – I took DRJ’s post to be a comment on a relevant news story. I did not realize that to pass muster her posts were rquired to comprehensively address all sides of an issue. I wish the MSM would follow that policy. Perhaps you could send them some snotty complaints.

    What is the bit about the union-built house? Is that some prior complaint or something unrelated you are pulling out of your ass for this thread?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  42. Well, that’s the JD we all know and love (gag).

    AD – That’s not the way I roll either, or at least not that I ever remember rolling.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  43. EricPWJohnson,

    I think this link has some helpful information on Texas health care issues.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  44. Comment by daleyrocks — 10/21/2008 @ 9:01 pm

    Uh, dr, that was supposed to represent gagging on my own sentimentality. Should have thrown a direct insult, it would have gotten lost in the ground-clutter.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  45. AD – So you do roll that way?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  46. DRJ – EricPWJohnson has some interesting thoughts on the Castle Doctrine if I recall correctly. I’m not sure whether it’s Texas or you that chaps his ass.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  47. EEEEEEEEEEEEewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

    I denounce myself as a racist misogynistic xenophobic jingoistic homophobe.

    JD (c69925)

  48. snuffles wins handily

    i like america (d2f951)

  49. sniffles has yet to actually make a point, or take a position.

    JD (c69925)

  50. Comment by daleyrocks — 10/21/2008 @ 9:13 pm

    You would have to define “way”; but I’m not entirely comfortable with the direction this is going.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  51. Homophobe.

    JD (c69925)

  52. Comment by JD — 10/21/2008 @ 9:29 pm

    Just trying to fit in, and be denounced by some troll.

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  53. daley,

    Lots of people dislike Texas and Texans, especially after Bush, so they would probably agree with this quote:

    “All new states are invested, more or less, by a class of noisy, second-rate men who are always in favor of rash and extreme measures, but Texas was absolutely overrun by such men.”

    Those are the words of Texas Governor Sam Houston, perhaps the greatest fan Texas has ever had but also its harshest critic. He also had a great sense of humor. I side with Sam Houston. I have no problem with critics but I hope they also have a sense of humor.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  54. sniffles votes present – just like Obama.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  55. My point, JD, is that American “conservatives” have some bizarre spending priorities considering their rhetoric.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  56. I don’t know where the idea that it costs $60/sq foot to build a Texas house comes from. I can’t speak for every area of Texas but in my town new homes list at $120-150/sq foot and higher for custom work. But older homes (40-50 years old) can sell for $50-60/sq foot, depending on their condition.

    But I’m glad this came up because it gives me an excuse to look at houses for sale online. It’s fun to look but it really makes me appreciate my home.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  57. Comment by DRJ — 10/21/2008 @ 9:45 pm

    Damn, DRJ! That’s a lot of money for tar-paper.
    Do you get a well and plumbing for that too?

    Another Drew (7866bb)

  58. Plumbing?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  59. That’s a lot of money for tar-paper.

    RACISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    JD (c69925)

  60. If illegal immigration has had this impact on charity hospitals, just imagine what it’s done to American schools.

    You don’t have to look any farther than Dallas to find out, it’s public schools are nothing more than daycare for illegals at this point. This graph shows the racial makeup of their school system and it’s estimated that of the 100,000 or so Hispanic students, around half are illegals. The current Superintendent of the district has actually said he wants to hire illegals. If you’re ever in Dallas, go to the Eastside and you’ll be hard pressed to find anybody who speaks English.

    Steve (dce969)

  61. DRJ

    Links from non government sources are most of the time no more accurate than your or my opinion

    The Facts are Parkland like Memorial in Houston have always been and always will be quasi to all out charity hospitals

    Introducing tainted and misleading rhectoric that this is a new development and that a “wave” is hitting Dallas was wrong on soo many levels I don’t know where to begin

    Then to extrapolate it to the massive spending in the school system is well, how to even begin….

    You are right to protest the use of tax dollars for charity – I agree

    You are wrong to point out that this was a “new” development

    It wasn’t

    arguments are weakened when pushed too far and credibility strained for everyone who has been working not the masses but the masters for real change in this area

    Isn’t helping

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  62. DRJ

    In regards to your 33

    Illegal or Unisured?

    White teenage single mom

    Brown teenage single mom

    Please calculate the impact?

    Is one charged more than the other?

    And if either one is unisured what is the differential in impact

    The Brown illegal teenage mom lets say costs the state 5000 for the birth – thats it
    Then she has to work since there is no aid for illegals so she gets 6 dollars an hour time 60 or 360 a week which she pays 28 dollars per week for social security she will never receive.

    The White Teenage mom costs the state 5000 for the birth and 800 per month 800*12*16 = which is over 150,000 for each single white mom’s kid thats just welfare

    Not seeing the burden

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  63. “Introducing tainted and misleading rhectoric that this is a new development and that a “wave” is hitting Dallas was wrong on soo many levels I don’t know where to begin”

    EricPW – Could you point out where DRJ does the above for the ignorant rubes on this blog who fail to see the nuance in these issues on your wavelength. Some phone numbers for quality builders in the $50-$60/sq. ft. range would also be appreciated, but again I don’t know what that has to do with the post.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  64. The Brown illegal teenage mom lets say costs the state 5000 for the birth – thats it
    Then she has to work since there is no aid for illegals

    If an illegal has a kid in this country, that kid is an American citizen and eligible for the same aid as the child of an American citizen.

    Steve (dce969)

  65. Steve

    The adult applying for the aid has to show citizenship – if they cant they are detained and subject to deportation

    Old ways are gone

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  66. Steve, DRJ

    http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/law-reg/finalrule/aspesum.htm

    TANF is family drived

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  67. I believe it was Patterico who said, “Every problem this country currently has is made worse by illegal immigration.”

    And he is right about that.

    My grandson is the only one in his kindergarten class who it not in ESL (English as a Second Language). It is not easy dealing with a California in which that kind of “Change” has been forced on your community by illegal means.

    tyree (8dab48)

  68. I think EricPW is arguing with himself.

    JD (c69925)

  69. Decades ago my sister in law had my niece at a hospital in California. Her husband paid $3,000 for the privilege. In the shared room there was a Mexican citizen who paid $50. Some people don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

    We will see what change the next administration forces on the American people for the benefit of Mexico.

    tyree (8dab48)

  70. Steve

    The adult applying for the aid has to show citizenship – if they cant they are detained and subject to deportation

    Old ways are gone

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    If you are saying the parent’s immigration status has anything to do with the child’s benefits under Medicaid, you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  71. Mike K

    Welfare is by Families now and all members have to show citizenship
    Thats why I posted the link and no they are not getting medicaid

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)

  72. EricPWJohnson,

    I agree Parkland is and has been a charity hospital. To my knowledge, all publicly-funded county hospitals in Texas (like Parkland) have to accept uninsured persons in need of emergency care, and many of them choose to treat non-emergency uninsured patients as well. I did not mean to imply that Parkland’s status as a charity county hospital will change — only that Dallas County is voting on whether to build a new facility to replace the existing Parkland Hospital.

    As for Medicaid rules and proof of citizenship, I will be the first to admit I’m no expert on those rules and also that sources (including government sources) can be mistaken. However, snopes.com confirms earlier comments that federal Medicaid regulations regarding proof of citizenship do not apply to pregnant illegal immigrants. Apparently there is an exemption because the child will be a citizen.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  73. Furthermore, this Texas Task Force report notes the proof of citizenship requirement is not absolute (see pp 29 et seq):

    The Federal Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 purportedly imposes a requirement that Medicaid applicants must prove that they are U.S. citizens in order to enroll in the program. The goal of the legislation is to ensure that any Medicaid coverage which should only be provided to US citizens, and other qualifying legal residents, is not received by undocumented immigrants or those who are unable to prove their citizenship. The proof-of-citizenship requirement in the Federal Deficit Act does not apply to other government programs such as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Food Stamps, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), or the Housing Choice Voucher Program (known commonly as Section 8 Housing). Enrollment in most of these programs is typically restricted to citizens and certain eligible non-citizens, although the processes by which citizenship is verified are often deficient.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  74. I don’t know where the idea that it costs $60/sq foot to build a Texas house comes from. I can’t speak for every area of Texas but in my town new homes list at $120-150/sq foot and higher for custom work. But older homes (40-50 years old) can sell for $50-60/sq foot, depending on their condition.

    In my neighborhood it’s $675.00 per square foot. Which would be ridiculous were it not for the location.

    And then the assholes vote down tax increases for the village and the school because they’re mortgage poor. Maybe they understand that their house is not worth $675.00 per square foot without the village and the school and maybe they don’t.

    nk (5dcbab)

  75. DRJ
    I appreciate where you’re coming from on this but….. AS IT STANDS NOW – Subject to the Dems buying themselves an easy constituency…

    No illegal immigrants under any situation have any application process available to them for anything – I posted the rules for TANF –

    Except school and thats ending too

    Otherwise Parkland would not be going bankrupt – it would be rolling in cash :) (medicaid pays well for obgyn)

    The problem is that Mexico is melting down and the violence is increasing.

    EricPWJohnson (47b9ab)


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