Evidence of Obama-Ayers Tie Sent Down the Memory Hole . . . Almost!
The best evidence that Barack Obama launched his political career from Bill Ayers’s living room has disappeared . . . down the memory hole.
Well, not quite. The Wayback Machine and I have both saved copies.
On Thursday, the L.A. Times claimed that there is “no recorded basis” for John McCain’s statement that Obama launched his political career in Bill Ayers’s living room. That same day, I wrote a post that proved them wrong. I linked a January 27, 2005 blog post by Maria Warren, a political liberal who attended the function. In that post, she said:
When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were launching him–introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.
I originally read about this post at a Politico piece about the Ayers-Obama relationship in February 2008. That post identified the name of the blog, and Maria Warren as the author. But Politico did not link Warren’s post; I found it and linked it based on the evidence provided by Politico. Yesterday I sent the link to the L.A. Times as part of a request for a correction of the error in their editorial.
As far as I know, I was the first blogger to directly link Warren’s blog entry — and I did so last Thursday.
Now it’s Monday, and this blog entry — which had been around since January 27, 2005 — is suddenly gone. (H/t Jim Treacher.)
I thought there wasn’t anything to the Obama-Ayers relationship. I guess somebody thinks different — and is taking pains to delete the evidence.
Well, you’re going to have to do better than this. Turns out the Wayback Machine still has a copy. You’re going to have to scrub that, too.
Oh — and then you’re going to have to crash my site and come get my laptop. Because it turns out that I saved a screenshot:
(Click the image for a full-size shot.)
What . . you think I didn’t see this coming?
UPDATE: Thanks to Instapundit, Beldar at Hugh Hewitt, Powerline, and others who linked.
Google cache of the disappeared post is here.
Also, Maria Warren has put up a blog post that purports to (but does not) explain why she deleted her January 2005 post. Details here.
Don’t give them any ideas!
Comment by zmdavid — 10/20/2008 @ 7:12 am
Oh, and if they put the post back up and try to claim they never deleted it, I have the screengrab of the “no such file found” message as well.
Comment by Patterico — 10/20/2008 @ 7:15 am
It depends on what definition of launch you are using, and if you are trying to connect this to a broader narrative.
Good stuff, Patterico.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 7:17 am
Need I point out the inherent racism of pointing this out? Just ask that girl from manbearpig or firedoglake.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 7:26 am
I just can’t understand how Democrats do not see their hypocrisy in only claiming W, McNuggets, and the GOP are the only liars in this election cycle.
Comment by PCD — 10/20/2008 @ 7:28 am
When I say Obama, you say Ayers!
Obama! Ayers!
Obama! Ayers!
Word.
Comment by Official Internet Data Office — 10/20/2008 @ 7:29 am
@3: Nah, it depends on who you’re saying is doing the launching.
Patterico, I think you’re drinking too much of your own kool-aid here. This “evidence” indicates that this attendee thought Ayers and Dohrn were trying to “launch” Obama. There’s nothing here suggesting that Obama was behind it, though that is exactly what <a href=”Palin et al want us to think.
If this is their sole source, it is indeed evidence - that this talking point is a total exaggeration.
Comment by Tom — 10/20/2008 @ 7:39 am
That is not the Barack Obama that I thought I knew.
Comment by Barack Obama — 10/20/2008 @ 7:40 am
I laughed out loud when I got the 404 message last night. The blog comments about Obama, Ayers, and Dohrn gave me a chuckle just now as well. I was hoping you had a screenshot — congratulations. BTW, the Iraqi civilian death counter at lower right is interesting: the number is about double the ridiculous Lancet survey value. Enron accounting?
Comment by Haywood Smith, Jr. — 10/20/2008 @ 7:41 am
Does it matter to anyone other than Tom whether Barack was doing the launching, or Ayers was doing the launching?
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 7:41 am
For most people, what matters is that Obama had no problem attending a gathering at the home of a terrorist. Obama had to know Ayers’ history, yet still had no problem palling around with the creep.
Comment by Rob Crawford — 10/20/2008 @ 7:45 am
We are always told about how thoughtful and intellectual Baracky is, yet when it comes to this issue, he just claims ignorance and moves along, and everyone buys it. Even if you accept that he knew nothing about it, it strains credulity to think that he did not become aware of Ayers until the point where he finally got around to denouncing him, which happened to coincide with him winning his US Senate seat.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 7:50 am
And don’t forget, the Annenberg Challenge spent over $100 Million with no effect on the schools! I.E. the Annenberg Challenge SUCKED! Obama and Ayers SUCKED at what they did! See this link:
http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/10/chicago-school-chief-on-annenberg-there.html
which I got from Instapundit.
Oh, by the way, I heard a funny little Junior High/High School rhyme on this election:
Vote for the Vet and the Mommy,
Not the Cheat and the Commie! lmao
I know, I know, it’s totally childish, but you have to admit, it’s pretty funny, cheat and a commie.
I just hope Obama keeps on planning his lavish victory party.
Comment by J. Raymond Wright — 10/20/2008 @ 7:56 am
Another lame excuse Obama has is that he claims the Ayers’s home event wasn’t his first. I don’t think it matters much if he had other events earlier or not.
Comment by zmdavid — 10/20/2008 @ 7:57 am
This isn’t an issue the American people care about. It’s just a low blow tactic that already had its 15 minutes
McCain palled around with G Gordon Liddy. Even called him “a friend” on the Letterman show less than a week ago.
You going to start the witch hunt on McCain now? No.
You just want to hurt Baracky … but this line isn’t going to do it
Comment by i like america — 10/20/2008 @ 8:00 am
the following comment was left at the top current entry at that site…
“”Get to know Barack Obama
When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were launching him–introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread. His “bright eyes and easy smile” struck me as contrived and calculated–maybe because I was supporting another candidate. Since then, I’ve never heard him say anything new or earthshaking, or support anything that would require the courage of his convictions. I only voted for him in this last race–because his opponent was a pinhead. And I’ve been mostly alone in my views. But maybe that’s changing.”
I know this came from some blog but for some reason it isn’t there anymore. Can you help me on that?”"
I personally think this should be left as a comment on every post he puts up from now until the election.
Comment by P Ingemi — 10/20/2008 @ 8:00 am
The left never feels they are hypocrites because they believe religiously that they know what is best and that the other side is evil and must be defeated at all costs. Especially since most Americans are too stupid to understand or see that the left should be the one with exclusive power. That is why they constantly accuse the right of everything they do. It also helps to have the MSM cover anything the right does wrong with a feverish frenzy, focusing on the gravity of the accusation without either facts or proof, because the right must be broken down. The left gets the opposite treatment: innocent even when proven guilty. They are at war with America because America refuses to bow down to their whims. We on the right better wake up to this fact fast or we will be living in a totalitarian leftist state, one where those of us that protests really get shafted unlike the idiots that claimed Bush was like Hitler without impunity, in a year or so. They only have tollerance for what they believe.
Comment by AlexinCT — 10/20/2008 @ 8:01 am
It’s kind of interesting that the wayback machine link has white text on a white background. So, if you go there, you might think it’s a blank entry unless you try to highlight the text.
Comment by CW Desiato — 10/20/2008 @ 8:01 am
This is a big part of the story, too–quick, before it goes down the memory hole:
Who picked the venue of the Dohrn/Ayers living room for the launching of Obama’s senate career?
Democratic state Senator Alice Palmer?
Nope, not according to CNN:
“Palmer rarely speaks to reporters. But she recently denied to CNN that she organized the political affair for Obama, although she said she attended.”
Which directly counters the claim of Anita Dunn, a senior Obama advisor (reported at that same link): “‘A Democrat state senator organizes the meeting at the home of one of her supporters,’ Dunn said. ‘What is the problem here? It is the worst kind of inference and the worst kind of politics to say that says something about Barack Obama.’”
O.k., next:
Obama?
Dohrn/Ayers?
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 8:05 am
Check out http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/10/chicago-school-chief-on-annenberg-there.html
For the work, or lack thereof, of the Annenberg Challenge.
Vote for the Vet and the Mommy, not the Cheat and the Commie.
Comment by J. Raymond Wright — 10/20/2008 @ 8:09 am
It actually matters more that Ayers was doing the launching. Between that event, the suspicion that Ayers was the force behind appointing Obama to the Annenberg challenge, name-dropping Obama in Ayer’s books before Obama was even a state senator, and the possibility that the two met at Columbia, the story being shaped is that Obama is Ayer’s protege.
Comment by George — 10/20/2008 @ 8:11 am
I know this is in dispute, but has anyone asked Obama himself what participation, if any, Ayers had in Dreams from My Father?
Comment by edh — 10/20/2008 @ 8:16 am
Liddy never planted bombs. Hell, as far as I know, Liddy never killed anyone or even ever assaulted anyone over politics. There’s no parallel between Liddy and Ayers.
And if this tactic is so useless, why discourage it? Seriously, “never stop your opponent while they’re in the process of making a mistake”. Yet the Obamatons are desperate to cover up the long friendship and cooperation between Obama and Ayers…
It’s almost as if they know it’s damaging. Obama certainly realizes that — look at all the different tales he’s told about their relationship.
Comment by Rob Crawford — 10/20/2008 @ 8:18 am
Instalanche!
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 8:20 am
Thre is another reference out there from someone who was there. Won’t tell you what it is until I get it saved (if I can remember how I got there) because it too will disappear.
Why isn’t somebody in the major press noticing this clearly documented manipulation of information by the Obama Camp? They have sold their souls.
People are going to whine later “Why didn’t you tell us??”
For all the way the left throws the word fascist at the right, the behaviors of the Obama campaign fit the dictionay definition — only they aren’t the only political power in control yet.
Comment by JAL — 10/20/2008 @ 8:26 am
“For all the way the left throws the word fascist at the right, the behaviors of the Obama campaign fit the dictionay definition — only they aren’t the only political power in control yet.
Comment by JAL — 10/20/2008 @ 8:26 am ”
Oh, but they will acquire power, at all costs. And people who dare to speak against him and them will pay a very heavy price for their insubordination.
One more reason to oppose him.
Comment by newton — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 am
“Why isn’t somebody in the major press noticing this clearly documented manipulation of information by the Obama Camp?”
Forget the major press noticing anything screwy. WE have to be ones to get this info out. Copy the link, mail it to your friends.
Comment by Andrea — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 am
Kind of amazing the mental gyrations some people will go through to enable the coronation of the first black Potus (with apologies to the nominal first one- Bill Clinton).
Seems even some conservatives buy deeply into the change and hope meme. Look at C. Buckley’s logic on the issue, as one example.
I was just reading Rick Moran’s spin over at rightwingnuthouse that Republicans are doing to Obama what dems did to the Dubya the past eight years and Moran assures us that Obama is not the villain that we portray him as. We can throw his ass out next election, his thugs won’t go overboard, our rights won’t be diminished, etc. And even if ACORN could sway the election results through fraud, in say Ohio, it would take much more to actually give Obama the election based on any perceived illegal acts. I don’t know. I don’t buy the rationalizations. I do think Obama with support of Soros and at his beck and call is dangerous and a danger in the world at large with his plans to diminish things like NAFTA and increase support to Euroweenie and UN influence.
Anyway Moran thinks that if the American people choose to lurch to the left, it is up to conservatives to come up with an alternative. Still looks to me that once the fox gets one foot in the henhousem, he will be difficult to dislarge. As if Baracky will pass on pushing a far left agenda, especially if he finds himself with a filibuster-proof Senate? Isn’t it a fact that with the help of the Obama-worshipping media, the rest of us will be following the wishes of the perhaps 20% wanting socialism?
Baracky’s legions expect him to exert power to inprove their own lives. Don’t you think the underclass will insist that Barack make the people who already pay the bulk of income taxes, pay more and that those paying nothing at all get their tax credits in form of a welfare check or what amounts to socialist redistributions?
Comment by madmax333 — 10/20/2008 @ 8:41 am
It’s the coverup that is really making the association look like something that needs to be exposed.
Comment by htom — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 am
Ayers launches Obama’s political career in his living room in 1995. 1996-2001 Obama is on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge which gives more than a $1 million to Ayers’ Small Schools Workshop. Smells like a pay-off.
Comment by bad — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 am
Tom doesn’t seem to mind that Obama lies to others, being certain that Duh1 would never ever lie to him.
Good luck with that Tom.
Comment by ThomasD — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 am
Barack used technical tactics to get Alice Palmer dropped from the primary ballot. (He did this to all his competitors, and he ended up running unopposed.) The idea that he was Palmer’s protege is laughable. He stabbed her in the back and stole her Senate seat.
Immediately after that she introduces him as her successor? The claim is so ludicrous even an idiot savant wouldn’t believe it.
Comment by Antimedia — 10/20/2008 @ 8:44 am
If McCain wins its gooing to be the SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEtist slap at the left
I hope he wins by just 1 electorial vote and one popular vote
Just to hear em scream
Comment by EricPWJohnson — 10/20/2008 @ 8:49 am
The question is not why Obama has ties of any kind to Ayers, it’s why Ayers is acceptable company to keep in Chicago for anyone wanting respectability in or out of Chicago. Their holding up Ayers & Dorn as an upstanding citizen is more of an indictment of Chicago culture than of Obama or Daley (though the latter has more responsibility for Chi-Town). Blame Daley if you must (and should), but while I don’t let Obama off the hook for playing dumb about something he certainly knew about back then and now, I don’t expect him to get where he is in Chicago politics without genuflecting to america’s most politically correct tenured terrorist. However, he shouldn’t whine when he finds out that by making it in Chicago in such a cynical fashion, he’s burned his bridge in middle america - and it’s his own darned fault.
I can assure you if you had these types of “tenuous” links were found between Palin and David Duke, she would never had made it to McCain’s shortlist. And as a democrat, I’m jealous as hell about that.
Comment by Kevin — 10/20/2008 @ 8:54 am
There is a vast and important difference between G Gordon Liddy and Ayers.
Liddy did his time and was truly rehabilitated.
Ayers never did time and has never repented of what he did which was far worse. All while Mr. Judgement just assumed that he was rehabilitated and never bothered to check the facts in all the years that he worked closely with him. Lemme repeat. Obama just assumed that a guy who planted bombs and hurt his own countryman was rehabilitated. If he had a shred of the judgement that he is supposed to have, Ayers should have been the guy that needed a throrough vetting by Obama before he ever agreed to taking the several jobs that he chose to take working with Ayers.
Also McCain has never denied his friendship with Liddy. Obama called Ayers “just a guy in my neighborhood” as if he barely knew him. It all recorded. He played completely dumb about Ayers. That is a blatant lie that Obama, the oh so ethical change agent, is still trying to cover for.
Comment by Peggy — 10/20/2008 @ 8:57 am
They can request to have those archives removed from the Way back machine so I hope you have lots of copies spread around.
Comment by Kathy — 10/20/2008 @ 8:58 am
On the CNN story (”Palmer . . . denied to CNN that she organized the political affair”):
WLS linked to the YouTube of that story here.
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 8:58 am
G. Gordon Liddy is NOT the same as Bill Ayers. Liddy broke the law and paid the price. Ayers is an unrepentent terrorist who facilitated 4 deaths. Only a morally bankrupt individual or a liar would confuse the two.
Trey
Comment by Trey — 10/20/2008 @ 9:01 am
#30 Antimedia
You’ve got the chronology backwards. Read the Politico piece that Patterico points to, above; read it all the way through page 2!
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 9:06 am
ABC polling results
— how likely voters view Ayers, Palin.
Comment by Tim McGarry — 10/20/2008 @ 9:10 am
Say, wasn’t Liddy’s sentence communted by President Carter? I would think that if the ever sainted Jimmah commuted someone’s sentence that the Left would have no problem with it. Ayers, OTOH, never served a day in jail, says he is sorry he didn’t do more, and the group was active in ‘81 and the last prosecution in ‘90 or so if I remember correctly.
I don’t like either of them, but one served his time and paid off his debt to society. The other is an unrepentant terrorist. I only have an ongoing problem with the latter of the two, which isn’t Liddy. I don’t get the equivalence there… just don’t get it at all. You could try a bit harder, I can think of one name that is connected to McCain most wouldn’t like… but then he gets support from an Obama friend… so you scratch one, you soon get the other, too. Which is real nice on the equivalence front… but it takes research, not talking points.
Comment by ajacksonian — 10/20/2008 @ 9:14 am
Well if ABC’s polls tell me that I should not care about something, then dadgummit, I no longer care.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 9:17 am
It becomes clear that Ayers supported Obama, even to the point of considering him a protege. I don’t want to exaggerate the importance of that - Ayers may have a dozen people he considers his proteges and Obama may have a dozen other folks who thinks he’s theirs. But it ain’t nothing. Passing lots of money to Ayers’ groups might be kickback or might not.
But even if the bare minimum interpretation is true, that Bill Ayers was one of the many people Obama exchanges favors with and is nothing special in Barack’s life, it would still remain that Obama didn’t see anything sticking out that was a problem. Ex-Weatherman, tried to blow up buildings, now has his attention focussed on radicalizing schoolkids - not a problem? No warning bells, no caution, no assurances demanded? That may be a smart Chicago politician, but it is not a smart national leader. Evaluating talent and character is as close to the core skill needed for the presidency as can be stated simply.
Comment by Assistant Village Idiot — 10/20/2008 @ 9:19 am
CNN clip, full version (5:39 instead of ca. 4:00 minutes).
This one includes rebuttals by Anita Dunn and talking heads’ Q&A at the end of the report.
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 9:24 am
Sent down the memory hole?…more like flushed down the ghetto shitpot if you ask me
Comment by Robbins Mitchell — 10/20/2008 @ 9:26 am
The Ayers association doesn’t really bother me - a poor little rich boy striking back at daddy. Big deal.
It’s the associations with real criminal scum like Rezko and Daley that send a creepy feeling up my spine.
Comment by mojo — 10/20/2008 @ 9:28 am
I would love to see Ayers interviewed and asked what is it about Obama and his policies that he admires.
Comment by Pierred — 10/20/2008 @ 9:29 am
I know this is in dispute, but has anyone asked Obama himself what participation, if any, Ayers had in Dreams from My Father?
Comment by edh
Why would any reporter do that, when they can’t even bring up the lies in his fictional so-called ‘autobiographies’ during interviews (having copies at the ready)? How come not one reporter has talked about his two books, and all the racist crap in them, nor quoted them when questioning Obama about his published sentiments? (What, he’s gonna claim he didn’t write them?) There’s enough fake material (and fake recollections) in those two lame tomes for an intrepid reporter to make a good career (and possibly earn a Pullitzer).
Comment by RickZ — 10/20/2008 @ 9:32 am
One might think that the MSM would go interview Ayers.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 9:34 am
it’s why Ayers is acceptable company to keep in Chicago for anyone wanting respectability in or out of Chicago.
You basically left Daley off the hook here, but that is an incorrect assumption. Once Da Mayor and his political apparatus figured out that by giving legitimacy to Ayers the city would receive millions via CAC grants, all bets were off. The only thing that counts in this town is money and political connections. Ayers had the former, and achieved the latter in his activities with the CAC.
Comment by Dmac — 10/20/2008 @ 9:35 am
Transcript of CNN clip (5:39 version).
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 9:36 am
Fear does strange things to the mind.
Comment by Jim Treacher — 10/20/2008 @ 9:40 am
If the Obama’s/Ayers association is an issue Americans don’t care about, why does Obama feel the need to tell so many lies about it? And why are so many of his supporters helping to cover it up?
Comment by Socratease — 10/20/2008 @ 9:43 am
The “clean-up” of blogs, and the deletion of SNL material at the behest of Barney Frank’s organization, reminds me of something. It reminds me of the work of the “Ministry of Truth” in George Orwell’s book, “1984″. There, the hero discovers that the Government of Big Brother has been re-writing history! Combine these things with the “Fairness Doctrine,” and our government will almost be ready to launch a “Department of Truth”. (We in the U.S. prefer our civil servants in “Departments” as opposed to the U.K.’s “Ministries”.)
Comment by MKS — 10/20/2008 @ 9:53 am
Three CNN clips on the Obama-Ayers connections–good quality: two prior to the longer clip mentioned above.
In the first two, these points are presented in bulleted lists as claims CNN has documented:
* “Ayers hosted event for Obama’s Illinois Senate campaign”
* “Ayers hosted Obama campaign event”
I dunno: CNN, bullet points, two incarnations = “‘recorded basis’ for John McCain’s statement that Obama launched his political career in Bill Ayers’s living room”? What’s the LAT disputing? “Launched,” “living room,” or in whose name the title to the property is listed?
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 10:02 am
William Ayers founded the Small Schools Workshop: “William Ayers, Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), and founder of both the Small Schools Workshop and the Center for Youth and Society,..” http://billayers.org/page.php?cat_id=4
Here is a 1995 Progress Report on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge which shows that the Small Schools Workshop was located at: 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL.
(p. 14 of 67) http://sonatabio.com/CAC/CAC-1996-first.pdf
Here is a web archive screenshot from the Small Schools Workshop which shows that its address was still 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. in the year 2000. (see bottom of page) http://web.archive.org/web/20000816181823/http:/www.smallschoolsworkshop.org/index.html
So from at least 1995 to 2000, William Ayers’ Small Schools Workshop was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. Who else was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. at that time?
The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. from 1995-1999/2000. And who was the head of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge? Barack Obama (see paragraph 24) http://www.chicagoreader.com:80/obama/951208/ Here is a letter from 1995 to ‘Mr. Barack Obama, Chair, Chicago Annenberg Challenge 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. http://www.judicialwatch.org/documents/2008/AnnenbergChallengeLetters.pdf And here is a copy of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge 1998 tax return which shows an address of 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. http://www.verumserum.com/media/2008/10/cac-1998.pdf
To summarize:
The Small Schools Workshop, founded by William Ayers, was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. from at least 1995 to 2000.
The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, headed by Barack Obama, was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. from at least 1995 through 1998.
William Ayers and Barack Obama each had an office in the same building on the same floor for at least 3 years.
Comment by gatorgreenwell — 10/20/2008 @ 10:07 am
There are over 500 pages with the Warren quote, and in the same Politico article she opposes the use of her quote for “left-baiting”. The reason the blog post was taken down was probably because she saw a lot of traffic to it and decided she didn’t want to be used for “left-baiting”. I doubt whether the BHO campaign would have been involved, since there are - once again - over 500 pages citing her quote. Posts like this one are like something out of Lord of the Flies meets the 101st Keyboardists.
If anyone wants to actually do something, go out and ask BHO a tough question to his face and then upload his response to Youtube. Details on that at my name’s link, and I suggest contacting those listed and asking them why they aren’t pushing that highly effective plan but instead are wasting peoples’ time on useless things.
Comment by How to Defeat Barack Obama — 10/20/2008 @ 10:12 am
How to Defeat Barack Obama - After the attempted destruction of Joe the Plumber, why on God’s green earth would anyone ask Baracky a question?
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 10:15 am
Ayers hosting a “launch” of the Obama state senate campaigns proves that Ayers supports Obama’s political views. Where is the evidence that Obama supports Ayers’ radical past? All the launch shows is that Ayers has gone mainstream in his politics. Nothing about this launch or anything in Obama’s polical career indicates that Obama is a radical and certainly not a terrorist.
Comment by PSPIV — 10/20/2008 @ 10:17 am
PSPIV - For what it is worth, I agree that launching his political career in Bill Ayers’ living room does not suggest that Obama is a radical or a terrorist. It does suggest that Baracky has no problem whatsoever hanging out with people that made bombs that killed people, a notion that I find problematic. Substitute Eric Rudolph for Ayers and see if you would apply the same standards to McCain.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 10:21 am
JD: I’m sure it won’t matter to you, but Ayers has never been accused a planting a bomb that killed someone.
Comment by PSPIV — 10/20/2008 @ 10:27 am
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, PSPIV, but after #58, you no longer get that benefit. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird” ring a bell?
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 10:29 am
Be careful1! Remember the woman who accused Bill Clinton and who later received anonomous threats?. They may come around to kill your dog or something like that to let you know you are vunerable.
Comment by Richard of Oregon — 10/20/2008 @ 10:33 am
PSPIV: Ayers just helped make the bombs and plan the bombings.
Look up “accessory to murder” sometime.
Comment by Gabriel Hanna — 10/20/2008 @ 10:33 am
Ayers admitted to planting bombs that did property damage. He has never admitted to planting a bomb that killed someone, nor was he accused of being involved in a bombing that resulted in death. But, of course, the point of the Ayers story is to smear Obama, not to be accurate with the facts.
Comment by PSPIV — 10/20/2008 @ 10:34 am
So Maria Warren said “they were launching him”…. I guess we should consider Ms. Warren’s verbiage to stand in for facts.
This gathering at the Ayers home was not the initiation of Obama’s political career, though it was arguably the first event in the “Hyde Park neighborhood…”
I was unaware that this one neighborhood is ground zero for political campaigns.
You want to discredit Barack Obama, simple as that — so you will take anything no matter how flimsy (such as one woman’s use of the word “launching”) and use it to prove your point.
Please, you have only been asked to be fair and look into associations where John McCain may have shown a lack of judgment or for that matter… ANY member of Congress.
Thank you
Comment by Donna Freds — 10/20/2008 @ 10:35 am
Is Obama’s acquaintance with Ayers as openly anti-American as McCain’s aggressive opposition to POW returns from Vietnam?
http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/31-oct-2005.html
McCain has a long history of actively obstructing searches for Vietnam POWs.
People flying black POW flags might want to ask why McCain has been their enemy for the last thirty years.
Comment by JK — 10/20/2008 @ 10:38 am
PSPIV: Osama bin Ladin didn’t hijack any planes on 9/11 either. By your logic, then, he’s a guiltless of 9/11 as Ayers is of the Weathermen’s murders and attempted murders.
Your logic says more about you than you intend, I think.
Comment by Gabriel Hanna — 10/20/2008 @ 10:39 am
The seem to be working on the “crash my site” thing. Do you have your laptop in eyesight?
Comment by Kevin — 10/20/2008 @ 10:41 am
Proves nothing. First, no confirmation. If this woman is out there, find her. Get confirmation. Second, how does she know that the coffee was the first coffee Obama has in someone’s living room. It could have just as easily have been the 51st, and the hosts could have still claimed they “launched” Obama’s career. You guys will grasp at anything–except relevant issues, of course.
Comment by Austin — 10/20/2008 @ 10:43 am
PSPIV: Imagine this scenario:
“At a press conference today, Barack Obama defended himself against recurrent implications that his longtime association with Bill Ayers, dating back to the launching of his state senatorial career in the former terrorist’s living room in 1995, is a problem, saying,
Think that would fly? Why might that not be the approach that Obama has taken?
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 10:44 am
Donna intentionally misses the point. SHOCKA>
PSPIV - Assuming arguendo that what you say is true … never mind. If you would make apologies or excuses for Bill Ayers, that says all I need to know about you and your politics.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 10:46 am
When are you people going to wake up and realize that nobody cares about Ayers? People are scared for their jobs and homes and children, and McCain has not given any solutions to these massive problems the American people are facing. He is 73 years old. That generation has had there chance and look where we are. America needs a change. Something big needs to happen because we have been headed done a bad road for a while. John McCain does not care about the average American. And all of you who can’t see through him and especially Palin, I feel sorry for you and this great country.
Comment by John — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am
The “clean-up” of blogs, and the deletion of SNL material at the behest of Barney Frank’s organization, reminds me of … the work of the “Ministry of Truth” in George Orwell’s book, “1984″. There, the hero discovers that the Government of Big Brother has been re-writing history! Comment by MKS — 10/20/2008 @ 9:53 am
Indeed. Not only rewriting the history books but editing primary source documents.
Why would the unrepentant Weatherman and speaker at SDS reunions endorse anybody other than someone who was at least far left?
I bet I know where there is good documentation of when Obama met Ayers; in a file on Dohrn and Ayers in a certain federal agency. Even though more than a decade old, I’m not sure if they’re viewable (if findable).
Don’t you wonder just what was going on behind the scenes for a guy with this background to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate? They must have assumed that enough people who were adults in the 60’s and 70’s have died so there wasn’t a gut-felt reaction to the term “Weather Underground”.
Comment by MD in Philly — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am
Just a reminder…
Don’t forget about the career of Mrs. Ayers!
Ms. Dohrn is directly associated with bombs that killed people.
Comment by Another Drew — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am
Austin - I think, had you read the comments in this thread, and the comments on this topic in general, you would see that we do not really give a flying monkeyshit if it was the 1st of the 51st meeting that Baracky attended. The relationship with Ayers is at issue, not the timeline, or the semantic games you and your fellow travelers would like to play.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am
…also…McCain’s NOT the “family values” candidate…
McCain was denounced by both Nancy Reagan and Ross Perot for his unmanly ethics:
http://freecindymccain.com/page4.html
(note also that the relevant Reagan blog has been removed)
Comment by JK — 10/20/2008 @ 10:56 am
Here’s something from the New York Times.
It was later in 1995 that Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn hosted the gathering, in their town house three blocks from Mr. Obama’s home, at which State Senator Alice J. Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced Mr. Obama to a few Democratic friends as her chosen successor. That was one of several such neighborhood events as Mr. Obama prepared to run, said A. J. Wolf, the 84-year-old emeritus rabbi of KAM Isaiah Israel Synagogue, across the street from Mr. Obama’s current house.
“If you ask my wife, we had the first coffee for Barack,” Rabbi Wolf said. He said he had known Mr. Ayers for decades but added, “Bill’s mad at me because I told a reporter he’s a toothless ex-radical.”
Comment by Lou Shumaker — 10/20/2008 @ 10:57 am
Comment by John — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am
Never trust anyone over thirty!
But, you might want to re-take Bonehead English so as to straighten out those syntax rules:
“…That generation has had there chance…”
Comment by Another Drew — 10/20/2008 @ 11:00 am
If by chosen successor you mean that she volunteered to have her nominating petition challenged in Court by Baracky, and thrown out, then yeah, that sounds about right.
You will note the multiple links to Sen. Palmer’s actual words on the subject upthread.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 11:04 am
Patterico - 500 errors have been pretty common the last couple hours … just sayin’
I love all of the new trolls that drop by to prove what we already thought of them.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 11:07 am
Patterico, please. Obama was 8 when Ayers was blowing stuff up. You should be more concerned about the fact that Ayers is a college professor teaching young impressionable minds, if you think he’s a terrorist. I mean, some of your white grandparents and parents were throwing rocks and bottles and insults at unarmed black children trying to go to school when southern school were integrated. If those are not acts of terrorism I don’t know what is, and yet is anyone accusing those folks? Obama has denounced Ayers’ past activities–what more can anyone do? Talk about desparately grabbing at straws! Give it up already!
Comment by Rhoda — 10/20/2008 @ 11:11 am
You people need to ask yourselves not just why BO associates himself with Ayers, but why Ayers associate himself with Obama. What has Ayers seen in him for SO LONG, that he has supported him? Why is it the media is not camped outside Ayers’ door trying to get him to talk and trying to find out what they are hiding about BO’s REAL agenda, but we know all about Joe the plumbers taxes, personal life, salary, blood type…BO does SOMETHING Ayers agrees with, which tells me simply they have the same view of this country, the same view of education, same views on the judicial system, the same views on civil servants, the same views on our military and defense systems worldwide, etc, etc, etc,… Associations mean a hell of a lot and I’m absolutely frightened by the mindless followers of BO that are only looking for their handouts, but that’s what I expect from these people that would give their vote to this man they don’t know/care to know about-”me first, country last”… Time to read up on the founding documents and kiss them goodbye because they’re going to be stomped on Nov 4- this country will now reflect the country that the founding fathers feared most.
WAKE
UP!
God bless America
McCain/Palin 08
Comment by Sammy — 10/20/2008 @ 11:20 am
Whistle. Strawman on the field. How old was Baracky when he chose to associate himself with Bill Ayers?
Evidence of that? Or are you just pulling shit out of your ass and attempting to smear Republicans with the actions of Democrats? Wallace, Sen. Byrd, and Bull Conner were your folks …
Nobody is accusing the Democrats of being terrorists, except you.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 11:20 am
The evidence that the Ayers-Dohrn coffee occurred prior to Obama’s Ramada Inn kick-off announcement or was even the first of such coffees is insubstantial.
Comment by steve — 10/20/2008 @ 11:23 am
Comment by Rhoda — 10/20/2008 @ 11:11 am
Rhoda is another candidate for a repeat of Bonehead English.
Rhoda, it doesn’t matter how old Obi-wan was when Ayers was blowing things up.
The critical item is that he associates with an un-repentant terrorist.
I am sure that you would be quite comfortable breaking-bread with Eric Rudolph, or Timothy McVeigh, since you were much younger when they were blowing things up too.
Oh, but wait, they’re not Professors of Education, responsible for passing on the knowledge of our Elders to young, impressionable “skulls full of mush”, are they?
Comment by Another Drew — 10/20/2008 @ 11:24 am
The best documented probable Obama-Ayers-Dohrn-Michelle link really goes back to at least 1987, when Michelle, Dohrn, and Obama all worked at Sidley Austin together.
At any rate, Obama probably knew Ayers and Dohrn long before they hosted their “coffee” to introduce Obama to the Chicago political scene. Who does that for someone that they don’t ALREADY know, or who they don’t already agree with politically and want to promote?
The question is: If the connection is so innocent, why are Obama and his people making such efforts to sanitize the historical record?
If it smells fishy, it probably is.
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 11:27 am
Quote from reader “When are you people going to wake up and realize that nobody cares about Ayers? People are scared for their jobs and homes and children, and McCain has not given any solutions to these massive problems the American people are facing. He is 73 years old. That generation has had there chance and look where we are. America needs a change. Something big needs to happen because we have been headed done a bad road for a while. John McCain does not care about the average American. And all of you who can’t see through him and especially Palin, I feel sorry for you and this great country.”
Just what solution has Obama given for creating jobs? All I hear from him is to share the wealth. To share the wealth, he has to tax working people and give the money to lazy ass people on welfare as entitlements. I personally don’t work nor do I feel that anyone is entitled to share in the wealth that I earn by working hard. If he starts taking my money for this, I’ll leave the country for a friendler one or will quit working and draw my “entitlements” and enjoy sharing the wealth of others.
Comment by Don Bearden — 10/20/2008 @ 11:35 am
So we are trusting the word of someone who “says” she was there? Does she have proof she was there? Pictures? Witnesses?
I think this is just another attempt to derail Barack Obama.
Obama is a good man and is going to make a GREAT president.
Personally I am sick of everyone trying to make him out to be something or someone that he is not! This whole thing is just another sad attempt to elect John McSame into the white house.
I mean come on now people….have the past 8 years not been bad enough? Now you want to add another 4 horrible years of presidency?
I dont!
Obama 08!
Comment by Timmons — 10/20/2008 @ 11:40 am
So we are trusting the word of someone who “says” she was there? Does she have proof she was there? Pictures? Witnesses?
I think this is just another attempt to derail Barack Obama.
Obama is a good man and is going to make a GREAT president.
Personally I am sick of everyone trying to make him out to be something or someone that he is not! This whole thing is just another sad attempt to elect John McSame into the white house.
I mean come on now people….have the past 8 years not been bad enough? Now you want to add another 4 horrible years of presidency?
I dont!
Obama 08!
Comment by Timmons — 10/20/2008 @ 11:40 am
The fact that Ayers could become a “respected educator” working on “school reform” reflects poorly on Chicago.
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 11:40 am
for of all. If Obama serves on a board with the man and he is invted into his living room, who cares!! McCain went on 9 vacations with Keating… count them 9.. He hung out with the guy.. A convicted Felon… G. Gordon liddy.. great friend to him as well… I do not care what this guy did because “OBAMA DIDN’T DO IT!!!” He is a true american!! one that can look past what people did 30 or 40 years ago and not make judgements against them!!! their were people who burned flags, set things on fire alot of these people were on drugs!! if they have turned their life around so be it!!! and he never said in his book in 1981 that he wished he bombed more.. He said he wish he would have done more. That could be taken any way.. it could have mean that he wished he would have done more legally!! get a life.. Obama is going to win and get used to it!!!
Comment by susanforobama — 10/20/2008 @ 11:43 am
We haven’t been attacked again since 2001. Why? Because Bush recognized we were AT WAR and took the fight to THEM (radical Islam), instead of responding with meaningless warrants, Miranda readings, and feckless Justice Dept. criminal actions.
Do I want 4 more years of THAT? Heck YEAH! So should you.
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 11:48 am
Just one tiny question for the Obamamites out there who claim that the association between Ayers and Obama is no big deal: If there is no fire there, why is someone trying to put it out?
Comment by Tcobb — 10/20/2008 @ 11:48 am
I relate Obama has the same eloquent rhetoric as Napolean, Hitler, & Charles Manson. Lots of ignorant people listened to them also.
Comment by Jan — 10/20/2008 @ 11:55 am
you save but I cannot forward to MCCain/Palin and
undecided voters. Please make it forwardable.
Thank you.
Comment by Elvie B. Aldana — 10/20/2008 @ 11:59 am
Please make forwardable. Thank you
Comment by Elvie B. Aldana — 10/20/2008 @ 12:00 pm
To those who think McCain’s past should be checked for unsavory characters: You do it. We know you’ll enjoy yourselves.
Comment by Jim C. — 10/20/2008 @ 12:02 pm
cCain palled around with Charles Keating. Remember Keating who robbed us taxpayers of billions of dollars? McCain palled around with the founder of organizaton who funded the Contra, the right wing death squad who killed THOUSANDS of people in Central America. This founder also was a known Nazi collaborator. Palin’s own husband was a member of a terrorist group, the Alaska Independence Party, who want to secede from the United States.. Palin and McCain are the most UNpatriotic duo this side of Maverick country. You betcha!!
Comment by hillbilly4 the RP — 10/20/2008 @ 12:02 pm
Great that you saved a copy. Why this bit of trivia could put McCain in the White House. It’s what has been on the minds of all those losing their jobs and retirement $’s. Good job!!
P.S. Get a life.
Comment by russ — 10/20/2008 @ 12:02 pm
You people are trying to white-wash your racist ideology by the character assination Senator Obama. You should try focusing your anger on the WORST president in history - George Wrong Bush. PERIOD ….
Comment by saw55 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:03 pm
whats the big deal with a bombing or two against the illeagle war in Viet Nam, we have plenty of fascist selling our country to big buisness right this minute.
Comment by Adolf Hitler — 10/20/2008 @ 12:05 pm
It’s funny how Obamaniacs say that Obama shouldn’t be criticized because of “guilt by association” with Ayers, Wright, Rezko, et al, but then hyperventilate about McCain’s association with Keating. As if that’s a tit-for-tat, moral equivalence excuse for Obama.
And the “Obama was only 8-years old” thing gets tiresome, too. You could excuse an 8-year old for being ignorant. But you can’t excuse a (supposedly) intelligent adult with (supposedly) good judgment for becoming friends with an unrepentant terrorist who still cavorts with America’s enemies.
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:05 pm
“MUSINGS & MIGRAINES” is admitting the scrubbing:
Gawkers Look Elsewhere, or Better Yet, Get A Life
=-=-=-=-=-=
Gawkers Look Elsewhere, or Better Yet, Get A Life
Jeez! The howls of indignation. Grow up, people. Yes, it’s gone; that oh-so-exciting post that people can’t seem to get enough of. We know deleting doesn’t erase it from memory. Like so much urine in a swimming pool, trace elements will remain.
For those of you trolling this site for dirt on Obama and Ayers, please look elsewhere. Red Rabbit and the rest of us have said our piece which doesn’t amount to much beyond that yes there was an event which we attended and which has been part of public record for years. If you want to have a serious debate on how progressive Obama truly is then we can talk. But judging from the traffic stats and the comments I doubt that’s what you’re looking for.
This site has been pretty hard on Obama but has always criticized him from a progressive standpoint. Quite frankly the accusation that Obama would have a terrorist agenda is laughable considering what a cautious politician he is. Nor should Ayers be tried anew for his weather underground activities. His radical bonafides are so outdated, calling him a terrorist is giving him way too much credit.
So go to the Boston Globe, or Politico.com or wherever else we’ve been quoted. As for us, this blog is independently run, and reserves the right to pull material, specifically if that material hurts the blog at large. Moreover the post in question was up LONG before this election and in the last several months has been woefully distorted to slander a private citizen.
Meanwhile, shouldn’t you look to your own candidate? He ain’t doin’ so well.
POSTED BY LENORA AT 11:30 AM 2 COMMENTS
=-=-=-=-=
It’d probably be a good idea to screen-grab this ASAP before it too disappears.
Comment by Sarnac — 10/20/2008 @ 12:07 pm
#67 Austin
Austin, keep up; she’s been found. As recently as this week, deleting that January 27, 2005, entry from her blog. And, on February 22, 2008, Politico reported that when she was “contacted by e-mail, Warren declined to describe the meeting further and later blogged of her concern that Republicans would use accounts of the event for ‘left-baiting.’” Politico, then, has gotten that desired confirmation.
“Barack Obama launched his political career from Bill Ayers’s living room,” Austin, not “the coffee was the first coffee Obama had in someone’s living room.” And “the hosts”–that would be Ayers and Dohrn–have, alas, not “claimed they ‘launched’ Obama’s career”; they have not chimed in on this one in any published report and they are not responding to news reporters’ requests for interviews on this topic. Nor is Obama (key point!). But, look! We have a characterization of the event provided by two of the invited guests, again via Politico: “Dr. Young and another guest, Maria Warren, described it similarly: as an introduction to Hyde Park liberals of the handpicked successor to Palmer, a well-regarded figure on the left.” So how about let’s swap out “launched” for “introduced” and gather together under “introduced” all of the 1995 Chicago-area promotional events that ushered in Barack’s bid for the state senate.
All of these points are in the links in Patterico’s entry, Austin. Click and learn.
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 12:08 pm
sorry for the typos my flag pin stabbed me in the heart
Comment by Adolf Hitler — 10/20/2008 @ 12:08 pm
Hey Jan, the most ignorant people put George Wrong Bush in office. That’s why the demographics of people with high IQ’s and education are supporting Senator Obama and not psuedo-maverick. The real maverick in this arena is Sec. Colin Powel. Wicked…Ya Man
Comment by saw55 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:12 pm
MCCAIN’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google McCain and the Contra.
SARAH’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party.
Comment by heck46 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:14 pm
MCCAIN’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google McCain and the Contra.
SARAH’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party.
Comment by heck46 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:14 pm
I’m always amused that Obamatrons go so quickly to the racism card when it’s Obama who spent 20 years as a member of a church built on a racist ideology and donated tens of thousands of dollars to it.
Comment by Karl — 10/20/2008 @ 12:14 pm
In what year did Ayers’ actions become OK?
Some of us are equally concerned about that. It’s not so much that Ayers has changed his ideology, it’s that he’s changed his method of achieving it. Whereas before, he was content to blow up people (with “non-violent bombs”), now he’s seeking to blow up young minds.
Let’s look at this “thought” from a few different angles:
1. What if some of us didn’t have white grandparents and parents?
2. What if some of our grandparents and parents, no matter what color they were, didn’t grow up in the South?
3. Even if some of our grandparents and parents did participate in these things, what would that have to do with anyone here? You may not know this but one cannot choose their relatives. They can, however, chose who they use to further their political career.
Well, if Bill Ayers is rehabilitated now, why would the people throwing the rocks and bottles be since that happened _BEFORE_ Bill Ayers conspired to murder hundreds. Maybe we can get some of the rock and bottle throwers professorships too?
The facts indicate Obama is hiding something. Many of us want to know what that is.
Thanks for the tip!
Comment by CW Desiato — 10/20/2008 @ 12:15 pm
be careful what you ask Obama you could end up like Joe the plumber. Also be careful what you say to an unsolicited phone call from obama’s campaign staff, or the secret service will come calling. Be careful what you say at a rally for the secret service will investigate. Now why does a person have this much pull with the secret service and have to have their protection 9 months before any other presidential candidate.
Comment by iknownothing — 10/20/2008 @ 12:15 pm
Only one problem with your premise, talking to people in someone’s living room is not “launching a campaign”, the post is from 2005, she talks about supporting him in the last race, but not before, so that would have to be years before 2005 as well… So, he was being absolutely truthful… facts are difficult things, aren’t they?
Comment by Halis — 10/20/2008 @ 12:17 pm
Consider getting “hooked on phonics.”
Comment by CW Desiato — 10/20/2008 @ 12:19 pm
#87 Timmons
See #101.
And remember that her entry recording her attendance “in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn” when “they were launching [Obama]–introducing him to the Hyde Park community” was posted in January 2005. On the significance of that timing having far preceded Barack’s current bid for office, see Treacher.
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 12:21 pm
When Obama was 8, Bill Ayers was bombing targets in America on behalf of his support for the North Vietnamese and his own war against the US.
When Obama was 8, John McCain was being tortured as a POW by the North Vietnamese for bombing targets in Vietnam as part of his military service to the US, during a war started by the lies of a Democratic president (LBJ, Gulf of Tonkin).
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:22 pm
Timmons…great point, she just SAYS she was there. Just like BO SAYS he wasn’t. In fact nobody was there. Even better than that, the there wasn’t even there. It wasn’t even real. Just like this post. It doesn’t exist either. Nothing doesn’t even exist.
Comment by torabora — 10/20/2008 @ 12:24 pm
Associating with Bill Ayers is like…
…playing golf with OJ Simpson.
Comment by furious — 10/20/2008 @ 12:27 pm
OK, for all of the Kosmonuts that keep coming here asking for further proof, I provide you with the bastion of the vast right-wing conspiracy, the New York Times:
Comment by CW Desiato — 10/20/2008 @ 12:28 pm
Therealbarackobama has a screenshot of a February 23, 2005 blog posting by “Red Rabbit” (a poster mentioned by Lenora of Musings & Migraines; no. 101 above) adding the information that the coffee hosted at the Ayers/Dohrn home was “in late November of 1995.”
Comment by m — 10/20/2008 @ 12:32 pm
Obama has denounced Ayers’ past activities–what more can anyone do?
Of course he has — Obama has no further need of the man, his living room, or his education grants.
Obama has already played and benefitted from the float. “Denouncing” Ayers is as no-cost to Obama as covering kited checks. And speaking of Obama’s campaign finances….
–furious
Comment by furious — 10/20/2008 @ 12:32 pm
The bottom line is that the Obamas knew Ayers and Dohrn long BEFORE 1995.
They met as early as 1987 at Sidley Austin, possibly even before then in NYC at Columbia.
The question is:
Why are they hiding this from the American people?
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 12:35 pm
There are so many things I would like to respond to, but I will try to keep it short.
1) I can think of another time in history when a man promised change to a people whose economy was falling out from under their feet, and in order to help get him to the top of the heap quicker he manipulated the system to remove bothersome opponents and somehow managed to talk other people into relinquishing their position to him in order to make way for his charisma and promise of “hope” for a better life to the people of their great country - does the story sound familiar, it should - I’m talking about Adolf Hitler, read the history books. IT HAPPENED AND APPEARS TO BE HAPPENING AGAIN. And that is my greatest fear - that this man will not be stopped on Nov. 4th. Hitler didn’t tell the people he would take away their freedoms. He didn’t go into great detail about how he would bring about this change to create a more prosperous life for them - just promised them a better life. He also touted racism and class struggles to gain votes. Yes, he accused the Jews of being the wealth behind the oppression of the middle and lower class. Sound familiar - listen to the sermons of Rev. Wright.
2) His associations don’t seem to bother him at all. Ayer’s is just one of those associations. But Obama claims it doesn’t matter what he did in the past He(the great BO) doesn’t agree with what he did then, just what he’s doing now so what he did when BO was 8 shouldn’t matter to BO as a grown man. WELL - I don’t know about the rest of the people out there - but I tend to shy away from people who have supported meaningless murder, attacks on our nation and so on - and I don’t even have any political aspirations. I AM ashamed of the occasional bigotted opinions that my grandparents displayed. They were wrong and there was no TRUE basis in their opinions other than ignorance.There is no excuse for them, they were wrong. Fortunately while they did have the occasional slip of ignorance - they were not overt racists, and the terms such as the *N* word or similar terms for hispanics were never used. I HAVE on occasion worked as a volunteer for community events in the small town I lived in prior to returning to Dallas. And as the ORGANIZER of this small event, I was always short handed and in need of volunteers HOWEVER there were several “volunteers” who I turned away - you see, I was working with children and didn’t want someone with a riddled and shady past being involved with them. So, although BO was only 8 when Ayers was active in the Weather Underground, SHAME ON YOU Barack for associating with such a person and helping him to push his agenda forward. I don’t care how reformed you want to believe he is, would you bring a “reformed” pedophile to the school picnic - I think not.
3)McCain has my vote - and yes, I am white - I am not ashamed to admit it. But my vote is not and has never been based on the color of someone’s skin. And I say shame on ANYONE who would vote for McCain simply for being white or Obama simply for having a black father (remember - he’s not fully black - his black roots is what he has CHOSEN to identify with). I admonish bigotry at any opportunity. I let a woman behind me in line at the gas station know how horribly rude her comments were - when she asked “what is it nothing but mexican people in here today” somewhat under her breath. She has the right to freedom of speech - but so do I - my expression of that was to say she was rude, during an exchange of words I also called her a racist (I’m sorry but there is NO defense for a comment like that). At the end of the exchange she actually said “You know what - why don’t you just go vote for Obama while you are at it” I guess if you stand up and point out racism it automatically makes you liberal. I let her know that McCain has my vote but that doesn’t mean I’m racist - My point behind this is - WHAT A SHAME that this women is what people are seeing in McCain supporters - I was almost ashamed for it - because of people like HER - McCain loses support from those still sitting on the fence not sure what to do. SO my request is this. If the only argument you can come up with on behalf of McCain or against Obama is based on race - please keep your mouth shut, you are NOT helping. Educate and debate on PRINCIPLE and IDEOLOGIES - not race.
I pray, I hope and I wish to see Nov 4th come and go without American’s electing a man whose path so closely reflects Hitler’s rise to power.
Comment by JDK — 10/20/2008 @ 12:37 pm
Didn’t Obama say during the debate that it was “absolutely not true” when McCain said he launched his political career from Ayers’s living room?
I also think that CNN did a piece a few weeks ago detailing how Obama’s political “coming out” party occurred at Ayers’ house.
And why do liberals think G.Gordon Liddy is a domestic terrorist? Did he ever bomb anything or kill anybody? Please let me know if he did, thanks.
Comment by David H — 10/20/2008 @ 12:39 pm
We have been blessed with some real nuggets of wisdom today …
That may be a feature to you. I think it is a bug.
RACISTS
Devastating
This Leftist says this like terrorist is something to aspire to.
It never takes long for a Leftist to claim their intellectual superiority all while demonstrating an inability to spell or utilize basic grammar.
How old was Obama when he went to Ayers’ house? When he chose to work with him on multiple Boards?
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 12:41 pm
To say that “Ayers is reponsible for killing Americans” is one of the most misleading statements I have heard. What no one is saying is that the Americans that the bombs killed were of the “Weathermen” orgnization when the bomb they were making in the basement exploded. On another note, Liddy is a felon who has never repented.
Comment by Delores Collins — 10/20/2008 @ 12:43 pm
Gotta love how to a Obamatard the fact that Obama was friends and shared an ideology with a domestic terrorist is not only NOT important, but they think it’s equal to McCain knowing G. Gordon Liddy. Who did Liddy blow up? Nobody. How many cops did Liddy kill? Oh that’s right - none.
Comment by Obamatard — 10/20/2008 @ 12:45 pm
This “evidence” includes nothing that indicates the beginning of a campaign for the presidency, which is what the McCain campaign wants gullible America to believe happened. They are trying to make chicken soup out of a rubber duck.
Comment by equanimous — 10/20/2008 @ 12:45 pm
My favrorite McCain line these days -
“I am not George Bush.”
Not because of what he says but because of how the crowds react - they all scream their appreciation and loudly cry out in joy at the new revelation!!! This coming from the same people who elected, re-elected and have continually showered praise and adornment on George W. Bush and his “accomplishments” over the past 7 years.
How can anyone who felt so strongly and highly of Bush be so thrilled when Senator John McCain now tries to hard to distance himself from the President, his policies and, most of all, his performance.
Are these people now ashamed of their association and culpability with helping to launch and continue the political career of George W. Bush?
It may not be terrorism but it sure is terrific irony!
Comment by R Cutchens — 10/20/2008 @ 12:47 pm
you know reading what half of you write and believe just says that white america is afraid of a black president. it really shows the true belief of a person when faced with a certain reality. its killing you to know that a black man could be in charge of our great white country its ok to adore him if hes running a touchdown on your favorite team or scoring the winning basket. but the fact remains underneath you are racist as hell
Comment by blkamerican — 10/20/2008 @ 12:53 pm
I am reading more comments from hyocrites. Even endorsed Obama–so what? This is America or is it the country of guilt by association? I am friends and associate with a number of people who share different political background. By the same token, some of you so call “I only associate with true Americans, probably don’t know anyone who has done something wrong in the past and has paid their dues. Again so what? I don’t assoiate with unwed mothers. Does that make Pailin disagreeable to me. No live and let live and stop looking for a reason the keep us as Americans separate.
Comment by J Crawford — 10/20/2008 @ 12:58 pm
The thing that everyone seems to be missing is that Obama launched his political career on September 19, 1995 when he announced his candidacy for the Illinois State Senate at a lakefront Ramada Inn in Chicago. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=5. The meet and greet at Ayers’ and Dorn’s residence was not until November, 1995. Claiming that he launched his political career in Ayers’ living room (although that only matters to paranoid, delusional people) is untrue.
Comment by Gary — 10/20/2008 @ 12:58 pm
If you want to condemn obama for having ties with ayers….then guess what people….you have to condemn Reagan and McCaib as well. People who served on reagan’s administration were also part of the charity board. politicians who have ties with the McCain campagin funded the chairt in 1999. So before you decide to make comments, no your facts. It’s amazing what people resort to when they run out of ammo to defend themselves. How funny the right side is…it really makes me laugh.
Comment by treehouse — 10/20/2008 @ 1:00 pm
The difference between Liddy and Ayers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy
“He [Liddy] served a total of five and half years in prison, including over 100 days in solitary confinement, before his sentence was commuted by President Jimmy Carter and he was released on September 7, 1977.”
“When David Letterman asked McCain about his relationship with Liddy, McCain said, ‘I know Gordon Liddy. He paid his debt. He went to prison and paid his debt, as people do. I’m not in any way embarrassed to know Gordon Liddy.’”
Compare and contrast this with the way Obama is handling his connection with Ayers.
Comment by fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 1:02 pm
Maybe Obama is afraid it will lead to Obama’s membership in the Socialist “New Party”?
This was part of a post on 11/96:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010724081433/www.populist.com/11.96.Edit.html
Comment by SH — 10/20/2008 @ 1:04 pm
how far under do u need to go to say that the 90+% of blacks voting 4 Obama are not racist? Finding a black including Colon Powell not supporting Obama is as hard as finding a Kennedy who has a real job! Fact is Obama is an oppertunist, using anyone or means to gain his power. Ayers, Wright, Powell, Hillary, are all pawns in his elitist marxist mind.
Comment by jim nice — 10/20/2008 @ 1:09 pm
I guess I am just too stupid to give a darn about Ayers and Dorhn. Ayers certainly has rehabilitated himself. He apparently is well regarded despite his past. He apparently has served on the same board with distinguished individuals including prominent Republicans. He apparently was named Chicagoan of the year. So what is this guilt by association thing? Obama states one undispoutable fact: he was 8 years when Ayers involved with the Weather underground. How old was McCain when he associated with Keating or Liddy? The apologists for Keating and Liddy claim that they never hurt anyone, ok. Actually, Ayers never did either. There is nothing to indicate that Obama supported Ayers’ radical youth. It is a non-sequitur to use a tar brush to smear Obama because Ayers may have supported Obama. Even the worst criminal may have voted for a good candidate.
Comment by jerry lastow — 10/20/2008 @ 1:12 pm
How about this, Mr. Obama knows the discussions this particular meeting, incident, whatever one wants to call it. To alleviate all the discussions and doubts, why not tell the American everything, that way, he just might have all those independents voting him. I for one, will not vote for him because I think he is a liar and manipulator. Mr. Obama, tell me the truth, it just might change my mind, or not.
Comment by Brenda — 10/20/2008 @ 1:14 pm
Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. That is what is great about this Land of America. Does that, however, mean that we must bash the other guy’s opinion? If you strongly believe in something, try arguing the validity of your choice, rather than going after the person who opposes your choice. I think you will find a broader listening audience. Even if they do not come over to your side, they might retain some of the points you make, and make them begin to see that maybe there is another side to this prism that they have blinded themselves to.
We need to love and educate each other, not teach hatred against those who do not think like we do…
Comment by noperfect1 — 10/20/2008 @ 1:15 pm
Character matters. BHO was willing to have a launch coffee at the house of an unrepentant terriorist. BHO is unwilling to admit that JSM was right about Georgia, right about Fannie & Freddie and right about the surge. He (BHO)is the 2nd highest recepient of dollars from Fannie & Freddie. #1 is Chris Dodd…Chairman of the Banking committee. BHO is almost up to his level, but he has managed it in 2 1/2 years where it took Dodd 30 years!! The former Chairman & the former vice chairman of Fannie/Freddie are his chief economic advisors. Where are the media reports of this???? Or has that all been expunged as well? I think that all of the lawyers in public office need to be voted out. We need more “regular” folks there.
McCain/Palin 08
Comment by dan stark — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm
Nobody will convince the astroturf commenters as they do not have the apparatus to receive; only transmit the talking points. I especially enjoy the moron who is mad at McCain because McCain exposed the people who were taking money from MIA families and giving them lies about POWs still alive in Laos. It was a nice little industry for a while. No wonder JK(#64) is pissed. He probably had to get a job.
Comment by Mike K — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm
BTW, Insta-lanche.
Comment by Karl — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm
Treehouse,
Gosh treehouse, how many typos and how much twisted syntax can you get in one posting? Lets be honest. If there was still a literacy test required for voting, Obama would still be an unexperienced state senator from Illinois.
Comment by wwpl — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm
WOW, how much can you make of ONE incident that occurred many years ago? Evidently, quite a lot if you have nothing else to talk about. Are all of the other folks that served on boards with Ayers also terrorists? How about talking about some of the plans and proposals that the two are putting out. Surely there is some reason other than a rather loose association many years ago that you can find to oppose Obama. I also object to everyone calling all those who support Obama liberals. I consider myself more of a conservative than the current crop of Republicans who have tripled the national debt and taken the country from a budget surplus to a huge deficit in only eight years. I always thought the term conservative included fiscal responsibility.
Comment by Sam — 10/20/2008 @ 1:19 pm
Wow..isn’t it refreshing to see all the scum bubble up to the top…a lot of you people actually hate America and wish its destruction..Your doing a great job with all you bare hate!!Maybe we do need a revolution after all!!
Comment by John McMaster — 10/20/2008 @ 1:27 pm
I consider myself more of a conservative than the current crop of Republicans who have tripled the national debt and taken the country from a budget surplus to a huge deficit in only eight years. I always thought the term conservative included fiscal responsibility.
Comment by Sam
Dream on. If you (assuming you are a real person and not a comment posting bot) would read about the CAC activities, you would learn a bit about what a farce that was. Millions spent on attempts to radicalize minority children who can’t even read.
Maybe you should read Ayres’ speech praising Hugo Chavez to get an idea of Ayres and Obama’s plans for education.
Here, I’ll help:
Luis has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle—I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.
Does that help ?
Comment by Mike K — 10/20/2008 @ 1:35 pm
Delores Collins @ #122 is making a charge for most disingenuous moonbat of the day.
#124 just savaged a strawman.
#126 gives us …
This drivel is as predictable as the sun rising.
And its evidence of this is … I presume, because we are not voting for Baracky. Racists.
#127 savages some straw men, I think, as it was generally incoherent.
Gary at #128 attempts to argue semantics, ignores the contemporaneous reports of the people involved, but at least provides a link to the New Yorker. Bravo.
Is basic fuckin’ English grammar and spelling that damn difficult?!
SH @ #130 - That is soooooooooooo incredibly racist to point that out. And it is a distraction.
Do explain.
undispoutable? Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you meant indisputable (Good Allah these trolls are mendoucheous), how old was Baracky when he chose to associate with Ayers?
This flies in the face of all known facts …
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 1:35 pm
An important point to note: the accounts regarding Obama’s political “coming out party” differ on one very important salient point. As Maria Warren pointed out in her 2005 statement (before it became necessary for Obama’s supporters to try to rewrite history to protect Obama from his past), it was AYERS AND DOHRN who set up the meet-and-greet meeting. THEY were the ones introducing Obama to the Hyde Park political left. More recent accounts, such as Ben Smith’s attempted to cover over that very important fact by saying that the event was set up by Alice Palmer so that she could introduce her successor. It is extremely important to note that this assertion, which comes from the Obama campaign, is a lie which attempts to cover up Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn’s direct involvement in launching Obama’s career. Investigative reporters at CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 also confirmed this recently (much to Cooper’s surprise although he seems to buried it since), when they interviewed two people who were at the event in 1995 who both stated that Alice Palmer DID NOT set up the event, that AYERS set up the event, that Alice Palmer was just a guest, and that she went to the event briefly and then left. And we also have CNN’s quote of Alice Palmer herself saying she didn’t organize it. People just don’t seem to get this. Ayers was a TERRORIST. He tried to KILL PEOPLE. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, his bombs were not prankster pipe bombs. They were designed to KILL. The one that was intended for US Military personnel even had nails to maximize the damage. The only differences between him and Timothy McVeigh are that McVeigh was a better bomb builder and Ayers got off on a technicality, but has admitted his guilt.
If you have any conscience, do a thought experiment: try to imagine standing in the same room as someone like Ayers, no matter how long ago the bombings happened (and please be aware he still promotes shis radical agenda — he just uses his post as an “education professor” to do it). The thought of even standing near Ayers fills a conscionable person with a sense of repugnance. So it is ridiculous to downplay what it means that Obama WORKED with the man for years, was FRIENDS with him, and had his political career LAUNCHED IN HIS HOUSE. It means Obama is a man without morals, without conscience.
Comment by Concerned Citizen X — 10/20/2008 @ 1:37 pm
Patterico - Did somebody declare a Carnival of the Clueless over here this afternoon? Where did all these moron Obama supporters come from? Why are they scared about truth of the relationship between Ayers and Obama actually getting reported? If there is nothing to it they wouldn’t be worried. Maybe another important action alert got sent out by the campaign.
Comment by daleyrocks — 10/20/2008 @ 1:41 pm
The new Left’s definition of hatred seems to be disagreeing with the Left.
Nope. Only the ones that made and planted bombs.
Proof of this?
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 1:42 pm
Not to be a party-pooper, but a screen shot like that doesn’t prove much. Easily faked. You’d have to have IE7 make you a PDF of the page for it to be more credible, because that’s not as easily faked. Still fakable.
I can take any web site in existence, change the words on it on the fly, and take a screen shot. Easy. So if you’re going to save screen shots of pages, do it with a PDF.
Comment by George — 10/20/2008 @ 1:45 pm
i care that obama launched his political carreer in bill ayers living room,i care more that he is allowed to teach any of our children in college,or any where else for that matter,,obama has made some very scarrrrry friends during his short life,we should worry about all his back ground,we should worry about how he wants to take our money we worked our butts off for and give it to people that don’t want to work,,what we need to really worry about is the people in washington that decide where our money goes,,,the nancy polesi,harry reid,franks,dodd,that have given a free ride to the ones that put us main street people in harms way by letting fanny,freddie wallstreet grab big bucks and then expect us to pay for their crimes,,this is all crap and it needs to stop,and only way is court and by our votes,,wake up america
Comment by jo — 10/20/2008 @ 1:48 pm
All I know is that if Obama and McCain were standing on a stage together, and Jesus Christ himself came down and said LET HE WHO HAS NEVER ASSOCIATED WITH “UNDESIRABLES” CAST THE FIRST STONE, NEITHER COULD DO IT.
As others have said if Ayers was good enough to be a Professor at a Major “State Supported” University and serve on a board with prominent Republicans, who was Obama to question his credentials upon meeting him at a time when he was a ‘nobody’. As long as he’s not part of his current campaign or future administration - WHO CARES?
If you were now 45 years old, and met a respectable college professor and education board advocate, and you found out he robbed banks when you were a child, would you not give him the benefit of the doubt that if the University hired him, and all these prominent people think so highly of him, his past is just that HIS PAST!
Senator Byrd was a Klansman many years ago, does that mean all the other Senator’s who worked with him in the Senate, or heaven forbid became friends and hug out with him oustide the Senate supported the beliefs of the Klan or wanted to become members themselves?
Comment by Thinkaboutit — 10/20/2008 @ 1:50 pm
It is in no way appropriate to defend Ayers or Dorne for what they did. But to castigate everyone around them, who was drawn in by their web to legitimize themselves, is a hugh waste of time.
Just as if we were to spend time drawing out the extent of Sen. McCain’s involvement with Charles Keating, which really were illegal acts carried out by the candidate. He really did take bribes and other perks (vacations,all expense paid junkets) to stop or hinder investigation/prosecution of Keating for theft, fraud, bribery and and many other charges.
Obama has done none of these things.
Comment by HH — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm
So… let me get this straight:
Obama gathering at Ayers home (known or unknown)=/equals ‘pal’ling around with a terrorist whereas…
McCain’s knowing and well documented association as part of the Keating 5 who incidentally not only contributed financially on McCain’s behalf and flew McCain all over on his private jet, was closer to him than any of the others involved in said scandal but resulted in one of the biggest financial scandals in american history is equivalent to what???… simply bad judgement?
Please… is this the best you’ve got? If McCain can survive that and still be considered good enough to lead this country then unquestionably Obama can. Too bad someone thought this post was relevant enough to remove. It might make THEM look guilty but not Obama.
Comment by rb — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm
It is in no way appropriate to defend Ayers or Dorne for what they did. But to castigate everyone around them, who was drawn in by their web to legitimize themselves, is a hugh waste of time.
Just as if we were to spend time drawing out the extent of Sen. McCain’s involvement with Charles Keating, which really were illegal acts carried out by the candidate. He really did take bribes and other perks (vacations,all expense paid junkets) to stop or hinder investigation/prosecution of Keating for theft, fraud, bribery and and many other charges.
Obama has done none of these things.
Comment by HH — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm
Sen. Byrd (KKK-Dem-WV) still uses the n*bomb, Thinkaboutit. But he is pure of heart and intention, so all is forgiven. As is Baracky.
I can guarantee that were we talking about McCain and Eric Rudolph, none of these Leftist would be claiming that it was no longer important.
Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 1:52 pm
You should send this to Fox News and the McCain camp.
Why are people so hypnotized by Obama? In every speech I’ve heard he doesn’t say anything. I can stand up and run through a laundry list of things that need to be fixed…the economy, the war, healthcare…no $#!& Sherlock. What I want to hear is HOW he plans on fixing these things, and not by putting the burden on Americans by raising our taxes. If it’s all on us who needs Government?
He’s already lied to the American people by agreeing to public funding and then reneging and spending more than any candidate in history. I don’t see any of that money coming our way!
Comment by Sox Girl — 10/20/2008 @ 1:53 pm
It is amazing. Today on CNN there was a report on how McCain’s family had slaves 150 years ago. Wow, that CNN and the media sure are sharp, but they still can’t get to the bottom of a meeting in a former terrorist’s living room just a few years ago? Give me a break.
Comment by Dwayne — 10/20/2008 @ 1:54 pm
Thanks for the comment, George. I have now visited the archived website referenced and I can confirm that it says what the author of this post says it says. And, following your advice, George, I have made a pdf of the page. Thanks! Obama can run, but he can’t hide, from his past.
Comment by Concerned Citizen X — 10/20/2008 @ 1:54 pm
It is amazing. Today on CNN there was a report on how McCain’s family had slaves 150 years ago. Wow, that CNN and the media sure are sharp, but they still can’t get to the bottom of a meeting in a former terrorist’s living room just a few years ago? Give me a break.
Comment by Dwayne — 10/20/2008 @ 1:54 pm
The major factor that concerns me about Sen. Obama’s associations with people like Rev Wright and Prof Ayres is not the friendship, but these are indications of the basis of his (Obama’s) opinions and beliefs. If these are the basis His political and personal beliefs, I do not think those are the qualities I want in the leader of my country. One who activately advocates hate, distruction and discontent of my country.
Comment by Roger Davies — 10/20/2008 @ 1:56 pm
A revolution is coming John. The younger generation is done with all the bu–s–t. Republicans and Democrats are going to have to answer to them. We haven’t had this much involvement since the movements in the 60’s. It is refreshing to know people are willing to go in a completely new direction. Ayers shouldn’t be teaching in a university system college as a professor if he is a terrorist. Obviously the government does not agree that he is a threat either physically or mentally. John McCain was definitely involved in the Keating Five scandal and would have gotten jail time had he not been rich and been able to pay off enough people. He also is very good friends with Gordon Liddy, who served time in prison for the Watergate breakin to the Democratic National headquarters. No, that does not make him a murderer, but his actions undermind a political party and are equal to terroristic acts against our way of government. Of course, you Republicans do not care as it benefitted you. Just because a person chooses to vote democratic this year does not mean they have not listened to everything and made that decision. Some of you would vote for Barrack Obama if he were running on the Republican ticket. You don’t care what the person is like as long as he is Republican. If this were not so, you would not be voting for John McCain because he in no way represents the normal Republican ideals. I was going to vote for him in 1999 when he was running against George W, but George and his campaign called John a traitor who had fathered a black child. Most of you enlightened Republicans believed their machine and voted the BUSH as your nominee, so I never got a chance to vote for McCain. I knew BUSH was a creature from first sight of him. John McCain even got sucked up in the insanity that is the Bush administration. He lost my vote when he couldn’t say no to all the rediculous antics of the right wing neocons, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the rest. Now, you same neocons that hated McCain so feverishly are trying to shove him down the throats of those of us who paid attention. Whoever wins this elections will have years of shovelling to do to get to the light that was once the soul of this great country. I believe only one of the two running have that ability. GObama!!
Comment by dancinfool — 10/20/2008 @ 1:57 pm