Patterico's Pontifications

10/20/2008

Evidence of Obama-Ayers Tie Sent Down the Memory Hole . . . Almost!

Filed under: 2008 Election,General — Patterico @ 7:05 am

The best evidence that Barack Obama launched his political career from Bill Ayers’s living room has disappeared . . . down the memory hole.

Well, not quite. The Wayback Machine and I have both saved copies.

On Thursday, the L.A. Times claimed that there is “no recorded basis” for John McCain’s statement that Obama launched his political career in Bill Ayers’s living room. That same day, I wrote a post that proved them wrong. I linked a January 27, 2005 blog post by Maria Warren, a political liberal who attended the function. In that post, she said:

When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were launching him–introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.

I originally read about this post at a Politico piece about the Ayers-Obama relationship in February 2008. That post identified the name of the blog, and Maria Warren as the author. But Politico did not link Warren’s post; I found it and linked it based on the evidence provided by Politico. Yesterday I sent the link to the L.A. Times as part of a request for a correction of the error in their editorial.

As far as I know, I was the first blogger to directly link Warren’s blog entry — and I did so last Thursday.

Now it’s Monday, and this blog entry — which had been around since January 27, 2005 — is suddenly gone. (H/t Jim Treacher.)

I thought there wasn’t anything to the Obama-Ayers relationship. I guess somebody thinks different — and is taking pains to delete the evidence.

Well, you’re going to have to do better than this. Turns out the Wayback Machine still has a copy. You’re going to have to scrub that, too.

Oh — and then you’re going to have to crash my site and come get my laptop. Because it turns out that I saved a screenshot:

(Click the image for a full-size shot.)

What . . you think I didn’t see this coming?

UPDATE: Thanks to Instapundit, Beldar at Hugh Hewitt, Powerline, and others who linked.

Google cache of the disappeared post is here.

Also, Maria Warren has put up a blog post that purports to (but does not) explain why she deleted her January 2005 post. Details here.

1,026 Comments

  1. Oh — and then you’re going to have to crash my site and come get my laptop. Because it turns out that I saved a screenshot

    Don’t give them any ideas!

    Comment by zmdavid (a957d5) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:12 am

  2. Oh, and if they put the post back up and try to claim they never deleted it, I have the screengrab of the “no such file found” message as well.

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:15 am

  3. It depends on what definition of launch you are using, and if you are trying to connect this to a broader narrative.

    Good stuff, Patterico.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:17 am

  4. Need I point out the inherent racism of pointing this out? Just ask that girl from manbearpig or firedoglake.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:26 am

  5. I just can’t understand how Democrats do not see their hypocrisy in only claiming W, McNuggets, and the GOP are the only liars in this election cycle.

    Comment by PCD (7fe637) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:28 am

  6. When I say Obama, you say Ayers!
    Obama! Ayers!
    Obama! Ayers!

    Word.

    Comment by Official Internet Data Office (4695f2) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:29 am

  7. @3: Nah, it depends on who you’re saying is doing the launching.

    Patterico, I think you’re drinking too much of your own kool-aid here. This “evidence” indicates that this attendee thought Ayers and Dohrn were trying to “launch” Obama. There’s nothing here suggesting that Obama was behind it, though that is exactly what <a href=”Palin et al want us to think.

    If this is their sole source, it is indeed evidence – that this talking point is a total exaggeration.

    Comment by Tom (961f97) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:39 am

  8. That is not the Barack Obama that I thought I knew.

    Comment by Barack Obama (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:40 am

  9. I laughed out loud when I got the 404 message last night. The blog comments about Obama, Ayers, and Dohrn gave me a chuckle just now as well. I was hoping you had a screenshot — congratulations. BTW, the Iraqi civilian death counter at lower right is interesting: the number is about double the ridiculous Lancet survey value. Enron accounting?

    Comment by Haywood Smith, Jr. (2604ea) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:41 am

  10. Does it matter to anyone other than Tom whether Barack was doing the launching, or Ayers was doing the launching?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:41 am

  11. Does it matter to anyone other than Tom whether Barack was doing the launching, or Ayers was doing the launching?

    For most people, what matters is that Obama had no problem attending a gathering at the home of a terrorist. Obama had to know Ayers’ history, yet still had no problem palling around with the creep.

    Comment by Rob Crawford (04f50f) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:45 am

  12. Obama had to know Ayers’ history

    We are always told about how thoughtful and intellectual Baracky is, yet when it comes to this issue, he just claims ignorance and moves along, and everyone buys it. Even if you accept that he knew nothing about it, it strains credulity to think that he did not become aware of Ayers until the point where he finally got around to denouncing him, which happened to coincide with him winning his US Senate seat.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:50 am

  13. And don’t forget, the Annenberg Challenge spent over $100 Million with no effect on the schools! I.E. the Annenberg Challenge SUCKED! Obama and Ayers SUCKED at what they did! See this link:
    http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/10/chicago-school-chief-on-annenberg-there.html
    which I got from Instapundit.

    Oh, by the way, I heard a funny little Junior High/High School rhyme on this election:

    Vote for the Vet and the Mommy,
    Not the Cheat and the Commie! lmao
    I know, I know, it’s totally childish, but you have to admit, it’s pretty funny, cheat and a commie.
    I just hope Obama keeps on planning his lavish victory party.

    Comment by J. Raymond Wright (d83ab3) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:56 am

  14. Another lame excuse Obama has is that he claims the Ayers’s home event wasn’t his first. I don’t think it matters much if he had other events earlier or not.

    Comment by zmdavid (a957d5) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:57 am

  15. This isn’t an issue the American people care about. It’s just a low blow tactic that already had its 15 minutes

    McCain palled around with G Gordon Liddy. Even called him “a friend” on the Letterman show less than a week ago.

    You going to start the witch hunt on McCain now? No.

    You just want to hurt Baracky … but this line isn’t going to do it

    Comment by i like america (8a2c63) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:00 am

  16. the following comment was left at the top current entry at that site…

    “”Get to know Barack Obama
    When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They were launching him–introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread. His “bright eyes and easy smile” struck me as contrived and calculated–maybe because I was supporting another candidate. Since then, I’ve never heard him say anything new or earthshaking, or support anything that would require the courage of his convictions. I only voted for him in this last race–because his opponent was a pinhead. And I’ve been mostly alone in my views. But maybe that’s changing.”

    I know this came from some blog but for some reason it isn’t there anymore. Can you help me on that?”"

    I personally think this should be left as a comment on every post he puts up from now until the election.

    Comment by P Ingemi (f399ed) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:00 am

  17. The left never feels they are hypocrites because they believe religiously that they know what is best and that the other side is evil and must be defeated at all costs. Especially since most Americans are too stupid to understand or see that the left should be the one with exclusive power. That is why they constantly accuse the right of everything they do. It also helps to have the MSM cover anything the right does wrong with a feverish frenzy, focusing on the gravity of the accusation without either facts or proof, because the right must be broken down. The left gets the opposite treatment: innocent even when proven guilty. They are at war with America because America refuses to bow down to their whims. We on the right better wake up to this fact fast or we will be living in a totalitarian leftist state, one where those of us that protests really get shafted unlike the idiots that claimed Bush was like Hitler without impunity, in a year or so. They only have tollerance for what they believe.

    Comment by AlexinCT (561de6) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:01 am

  18. It’s kind of interesting that the wayback machine link has white text on a white background. So, if you go there, you might think it’s a blank entry unless you try to highlight the text.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:01 am

  19. This is a big part of the story, too–quick, before it goes down the memory hole:

    Who picked the venue of the Dohrn/Ayers living room for the launching of Obama’s senate career?

    Democratic state Senator Alice Palmer?

    Nope, not according to CNN:

    “Palmer rarely speaks to reporters. But she recently denied to CNN that she organized the political affair for Obama, although she said she attended.”

    Which directly counters the claim of Anita Dunn, a senior Obama advisor (reported at that same link): “‘A Democrat state senator organizes the meeting at the home of one of her supporters,’ Dunn said. ‘What is the problem here? It is the worst kind of inference and the worst kind of politics to say that says something about Barack Obama.’”

    O.k., next:
    Obama?
    Dohrn/Ayers?

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:05 am

  20. Check out http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/10/chicago-school-chief-on-annenberg-there.html

    For the work, or lack thereof, of the Annenberg Challenge.

    Vote for the Vet and the Mommy, not the Cheat and the Commie.

    Comment by J. Raymond Wright (d83ab3) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:09 am

  21. It actually matters more that Ayers was doing the launching. Between that event, the suspicion that Ayers was the force behind appointing Obama to the Annenberg challenge, name-dropping Obama in Ayer’s books before Obama was even a state senator, and the possibility that the two met at Columbia, the story being shaped is that Obama is Ayer’s protege.

    Comment by George (b27bc1) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:11 am

  22. I know this is in dispute, but has anyone asked Obama himself what participation, if any, Ayers had in Dreams from My Father?

    Comment by edh (66495f) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:16 am

  23. McCain palled around with G Gordon Liddy. Even called him “a friend” on the Letterman show less than a week ago.

    Liddy never planted bombs. Hell, as far as I know, Liddy never killed anyone or even ever assaulted anyone over politics. There’s no parallel between Liddy and Ayers.

    And if this tactic is so useless, why discourage it? Seriously, “never stop your opponent while they’re in the process of making a mistake”. Yet the Obamatons are desperate to cover up the long friendship and cooperation between Obama and Ayers…

    It’s almost as if they know it’s damaging. Obama certainly realizes that — look at all the different tales he’s told about their relationship.

    Comment by Rob Crawford (04f50f) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:18 am

  24. Instalanche!

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:20 am

  25. Thre is another reference out there from someone who was there. Won’t tell you what it is until I get it saved (if I can remember how I got there) because it too will disappear.

    Why isn’t somebody in the major press noticing this clearly documented manipulation of information by the Obama Camp? They have sold their souls.

    People are going to whine later “Why didn’t you tell us??”

    For all the way the left throws the word fascist at the right, the behaviors of the Obama campaign fit the dictionay definition — only they aren’t the only political power in control yet.

    Comment by JAL (3ed0d9) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:26 am

  26. “For all the way the left throws the word fascist at the right, the behaviors of the Obama campaign fit the dictionay definition — only they aren’t the only political power in control yet.

    Comment by JAL — 10/20/2008 @ 8:26 am ”

    Oh, but they will acquire power, at all costs. And people who dare to speak against him and them will pay a very heavy price for their insubordination.

    One more reason to oppose him.

    Comment by newton (8ee2e4) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 am

  27. “Why isn’t somebody in the major press noticing this clearly documented manipulation of information by the Obama Camp?”

    Forget the major press noticing anything screwy. WE have to be ones to get this info out. Copy the link, mail it to your friends.

    Comment by Andrea (6f5a59) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 am

  28. Kind of amazing the mental gyrations some people will go through to enable the coronation of the first black Potus (with apologies to the nominal first one- Bill Clinton).

    Seems even some conservatives buy deeply into the change and hope meme. Look at C. Buckley’s logic on the issue, as one example.

    I was just reading Rick Moran’s spin over at rightwingnuthouse that Republicans are doing to Obama what dems did to the Dubya the past eight years and Moran assures us that Obama is not the villain that we portray him as. We can throw his ass out next election, his thugs won’t go overboard, our rights won’t be diminished, etc. And even if ACORN could sway the election results through fraud, in say Ohio, it would take much more to actually give Obama the election based on any perceived illegal acts. I don’t know. I don’t buy the rationalizations. I do think Obama with support of Soros and at his beck and call is dangerous and a danger in the world at large with his plans to diminish things like NAFTA and increase support to Euroweenie and UN influence.
    Anyway Moran thinks that if the American people choose to lurch to the left, it is up to conservatives to come up with an alternative. Still looks to me that once the fox gets one foot in the henhousem, he will be difficult to dislarge. As if Baracky will pass on pushing a far left agenda, especially if he finds himself with a filibuster-proof Senate? Isn’t it a fact that with the help of the Obama-worshipping media, the rest of us will be following the wishes of the perhaps 20% wanting socialism?
    Baracky’s legions expect him to exert power to inprove their own lives. Don’t you think the underclass will insist that Barack make the people who already pay the bulk of income taxes, pay more and that those paying nothing at all get their tax credits in form of a welfare check or what amounts to socialist redistributions?

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:41 am

  29. It’s the coverup that is really making the association look like something that needs to be exposed.

    Comment by htom (412a17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 am

  30. Ayers launches Obama’s political career in his living room in 1995. 1996-2001 Obama is on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge which gives more than a $1 million to Ayers’ Small Schools Workshop. Smells like a pay-off.

    Comment by bad (013f81) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 am

  31. Tom doesn’t seem to mind that Obama lies to others, being certain that Duh1 would never ever lie to him.

    Good luck with that Tom.

    Comment by ThomasD (211bbb) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 am

  32. Barack used technical tactics to get Alice Palmer dropped from the primary ballot. (He did this to all his competitors, and he ended up running unopposed.) The idea that he was Palmer’s protege is laughable. He stabbed her in the back and stole her Senate seat.

    Immediately after that she introduces him as her successor? The claim is so ludicrous even an idiot savant wouldn’t believe it.

    Comment by Antimedia (1cee5d) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:44 am

  33. If McCain wins its gooing to be the SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEtist slap at the left

    I hope he wins by just 1 electorial vote and one popular vote

    Just to hear em scream

    Comment by EricPWJohnson (47b9ab) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:49 am

  34. The question is not why Obama has ties of any kind to Ayers, it’s why Ayers is acceptable company to keep in Chicago for anyone wanting respectability in or out of Chicago. Their holding up Ayers & Dorn as an upstanding citizen is more of an indictment of Chicago culture than of Obama or Daley (though the latter has more responsibility for Chi-Town). Blame Daley if you must (and should), but while I don’t let Obama off the hook for playing dumb about something he certainly knew about back then and now, I don’t expect him to get where he is in Chicago politics without genuflecting to america’s most politically correct tenured terrorist. However, he shouldn’t whine when he finds out that by making it in Chicago in such a cynical fashion, he’s burned his bridge in middle america – and it’s his own darned fault.

    I can assure you if you had these types of “tenuous” links were found between Palin and David Duke, she would never had made it to McCain’s shortlist. And as a democrat, I’m jealous as hell about that.

    Comment by Kevin (39d8fb) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:54 am

  35. There is a vast and important difference between G Gordon Liddy and Ayers.

    Liddy did his time and was truly rehabilitated.

    Ayers never did time and has never repented of what he did which was far worse. All while Mr. Judgement just assumed that he was rehabilitated and never bothered to check the facts in all the years that he worked closely with him. Lemme repeat. Obama just assumed that a guy who planted bombs and hurt his own countryman was rehabilitated. If he had a shred of the judgement that he is supposed to have, Ayers should have been the guy that needed a throrough vetting by Obama before he ever agreed to taking the several jobs that he chose to take working with Ayers.

    Also McCain has never denied his friendship with Liddy. Obama called Ayers “just a guy in my neighborhood” as if he barely knew him. It all recorded. He played completely dumb about Ayers. That is a blatant lie that Obama, the oh so ethical change agent, is still trying to cover for.

    Comment by Peggy (cdbef5) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:57 am

  36. They can request to have those archives removed from the Way back machine so I hope you have lots of copies spread around.

    Comment by Kathy (963843) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:58 am

  37. On the CNN story (“Palmer . . . denied to CNN that she organized the political affair”):
    WLS linked to the YouTube of that story here.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:58 am

  38. G. Gordon Liddy is NOT the same as Bill Ayers. Liddy broke the law and paid the price. Ayers is an unrepentent terrorist who facilitated 4 deaths. Only a morally bankrupt individual or a liar would confuse the two.

    Trey

    Comment by Trey (c67e0a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:01 am

  39. #30 Antimedia

    The idea that he was Palmer’s protege is laughable. He stabbed her in the back and stole her Senate seat. Immediately after that she introduces him as her successor? The claim is so ludicrous even an idiot savant wouldn’t believe it.

    You’ve got the chronology backwards. Read the Politico piece that Patterico points to, above; read it all the way through page 2!

    The exact date [of the launching of Obama at Dohrn and Ayers' house] is not known, but it was in the second half of 1995, before Palmer’s decision — late in her losing congressional primary against Jesse Jackson Jr. — to jump back into the special election for her state Senate seat. (Her decision produced a rift between her and Obama, who was able to get her thrown off the ballot on technical grounds.)

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:06 am

  40. ABC polling results
    — how likely voters view Ayers, Palin.

    Comment by Tim McGarry (9fe080) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:10 am

  41. Say, wasn’t Liddy’s sentence communted by President Carter? I would think that if the ever sainted Jimmah commuted someone’s sentence that the Left would have no problem with it. Ayers, OTOH, never served a day in jail, says he is sorry he didn’t do more, and the group was active in ’81 and the last prosecution in ’90 or so if I remember correctly.

    I don’t like either of them, but one served his time and paid off his debt to society. The other is an unrepentant terrorist. I only have an ongoing problem with the latter of the two, which isn’t Liddy. I don’t get the equivalence there… just don’t get it at all. You could try a bit harder, I can think of one name that is connected to McCain most wouldn’t like… but then he gets support from an Obama friend… so you scratch one, you soon get the other, too. Which is real nice on the equivalence front… but it takes research, not talking points.

    Comment by ajacksonian (87eccd) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:14 am

  42. Well if ABC’s polls tell me that I should not care about something, then dadgummit, I no longer care.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:17 am

  43. It becomes clear that Ayers supported Obama, even to the point of considering him a protege. I don’t want to exaggerate the importance of that – Ayers may have a dozen people he considers his proteges and Obama may have a dozen other folks who thinks he’s theirs. But it ain’t nothing. Passing lots of money to Ayers’ groups might be kickback or might not.

    But even if the bare minimum interpretation is true, that Bill Ayers was one of the many people Obama exchanges favors with and is nothing special in Barack’s life, it would still remain that Obama didn’t see anything sticking out that was a problem. Ex-Weatherman, tried to blow up buildings, now has his attention focussed on radicalizing schoolkids – not a problem? No warning bells, no caution, no assurances demanded? That may be a smart Chicago politician, but it is not a smart national leader. Evaluating talent and character is as close to the core skill needed for the presidency as can be stated simply.

    Comment by Assistant Village Idiot (77b476) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:19 am

  44. CNN clip, full version (5:39 instead of ca. 4:00 minutes).

    This one includes rebuttals by Anita Dunn and talking heads’ Q&A at the end of the report.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:24 am

  45. Sent down the memory hole?…more like flushed down the ghetto shitpot if you ask me

    Comment by Robbins Mitchell (fbea80) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:26 am

  46. The Ayers association doesn’t really bother me – a poor little rich boy striking back at daddy. Big deal.

    It’s the associations with real criminal scum like Rezko and Daley that send a creepy feeling up my spine.

    Comment by mojo (8096f2) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:28 am

  47. I would love to see Ayers interviewed and asked what is it about Obama and his policies that he admires.

    Comment by Pierred (423854) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:29 am

  48. I know this is in dispute, but has anyone asked Obama himself what participation, if any, Ayers had in Dreams from My Father?

    Comment by edh

    Why would any reporter do that, when they can’t even bring up the lies in his fictional so-called ‘autobiographies’ during interviews (having copies at the ready)? How come not one reporter has talked about his two books, and all the racist crap in them, nor quoted them when questioning Obama about his published sentiments? (What, he’s gonna claim he didn’t write them?) There’s enough fake material (and fake recollections) in those two lame tomes for an intrepid reporter to make a good career (and possibly earn a Pullitzer).

    Comment by RickZ (06fa85) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:32 am

  49. One might think that the MSM would go interview Ayers.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:34 am

  50. it’s why Ayers is acceptable company to keep in Chicago for anyone wanting respectability in or out of Chicago.

    You basically left Daley off the hook here, but that is an incorrect assumption. Once Da Mayor and his political apparatus figured out that by giving legitimacy to Ayers the city would receive millions via CAC grants, all bets were off. The only thing that counts in this town is money and political connections. Ayers had the former, and achieved the latter in his activities with the CAC.

    Comment by Dmac (f11dda) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:35 am

  51. Transcript of CNN clip (5:39 version).

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:36 am

  52. Does it matter to anyone other than Tom whether Barack was doing the launching, or Ayers was doing the launching?

    Fear does strange things to the mind.

    Comment by Jim Treacher (592cb4) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:40 am

  53. If the Obama’s/Ayers association is an issue Americans don’t care about, why does Obama feel the need to tell so many lies about it? And why are so many of his supporters helping to cover it up?

    Comment by Socratease (360acd) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:43 am

  54. The “clean-up” of blogs, and the deletion of SNL material at the behest of Barney Frank’s organization, reminds me of something. It reminds me of the work of the “Ministry of Truth” in George Orwell’s book, “1984″. There, the hero discovers that the Government of Big Brother has been re-writing history! Combine these things with the “Fairness Doctrine,” and our government will almost be ready to launch a “Department of Truth”. (We in the U.S. prefer our civil servants in “Departments” as opposed to the U.K.’s “Ministries”.)

    Comment by MKS (e1d60a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:53 am

  55. Three CNN clips on the Obama-Ayers connections–good quality: two prior to the longer clip mentioned above.

    In the first two, these points are presented in bulleted lists as claims CNN has documented:

    * “Ayers hosted event for Obama’s Illinois Senate campaign”
    * “Ayers hosted Obama campaign event”

    I dunno: CNN, bullet points, two incarnations = “‘recorded basis’ for John McCain’s statement that Obama launched his political career in Bill Ayers’s living room”? What’s the LAT disputing? “Launched,” “living room,” or in whose name the title to the property is listed?

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:02 am

  56. William Ayers founded the Small Schools Workshop: “William Ayers, Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), and founder of both the Small Schools Workshop and the Center for Youth and Society,..” http://billayers.org/page.php?cat_id=4
    Here is a 1995 Progress Report on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge which shows that the Small Schools Workshop was located at: 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL.
    (p. 14 of 67) http://sonatabio.com/CAC/CAC-1996-first.pdf
    Here is a web archive screenshot from the Small Schools Workshop which shows that its address was still 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. in the year 2000. (see bottom of page) http://web.archive.org/web/20000816181823/http:/www.smallschoolsworkshop.org/index.html
    So from at least 1995 to 2000, William Ayers’ Small Schools Workshop was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. Who else was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. at that time?
    The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. from 1995-1999/2000. And who was the head of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge? Barack Obama (see paragraph 24) http://www.chicagoreader.com:80/obama/951208/ Here is a letter from 1995 to ‘Mr. Barack Obama, Chair, Chicago Annenberg Challenge 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. http://www.judicialwatch.org/documents/2008/AnnenbergChallengeLetters.pdf And here is a copy of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge 1998 tax return which shows an address of 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. http://www.verumserum.com/media/2008/10/cac-1998.pdf
    To summarize:
    The Small Schools Workshop, founded by William Ayers, was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. from at least 1995 to 2000.
    The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, headed by Barack Obama, was located at 115 S. Sangamon St. 3rd Floor Chicago, IL. from at least 1995 through 1998.
    William Ayers and Barack Obama each had an office in the same building on the same floor for at least 3 years.

    Comment by gatorgreenwell (1da5af) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:07 am

  57. There are over 500 pages with the Warren quote, and in the same Politico article she opposes the use of her quote for “left-baiting”. The reason the blog post was taken down was probably because she saw a lot of traffic to it and decided she didn’t want to be used for “left-baiting”. I doubt whether the BHO campaign would have been involved, since there are – once again – over 500 pages citing her quote. Posts like this one are like something out of Lord of the Flies meets the 101st Keyboardists.

    If anyone wants to actually do something, go out and ask BHO a tough question to his face and then upload his response to Youtube. Details on that at my name’s link, and I suggest contacting those listed and asking them why they aren’t pushing that highly effective plan but instead are wasting peoples’ time on useless things.

    Comment by How to Defeat Barack Obama (6127c2) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:12 am

  58. How to Defeat Barack Obama – After the attempted destruction of Joe the Plumber, why on God’s green earth would anyone ask Baracky a question?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:15 am

  59. Ayers hosting a “launch” of the Obama state senate campaigns proves that Ayers supports Obama’s political views. Where is the evidence that Obama supports Ayers’ radical past? All the launch shows is that Ayers has gone mainstream in his politics. Nothing about this launch or anything in Obama’s polical career indicates that Obama is a radical and certainly not a terrorist.

    Comment by PSPIV (c3230e) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:17 am

  60. PSPIV – For what it is worth, I agree that launching his political career in Bill Ayers’ living room does not suggest that Obama is a radical or a terrorist. It does suggest that Baracky has no problem whatsoever hanging out with people that made bombs that killed people, a notion that I find problematic. Substitute Eric Rudolph for Ayers and see if you would apply the same standards to McCain.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:21 am

  61. JD: I’m sure it won’t matter to you, but Ayers has never been accused a planting a bomb that killed someone.

    Comment by PSPIV (c3230e) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:27 am

  62. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, PSPIV, but after #58, you no longer get that benefit. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird” ring a bell?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:29 am

  63. Be careful1! Remember the woman who accused Bill Clinton and who later received anonomous threats?. They may come around to kill your dog or something like that to let you know you are vunerable.

    Comment by Richard of Oregon (487e2d) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:33 am

  64. PSPIV: Ayers just helped make the bombs and plan the bombings.

    Look up “accessory to murder” sometime.

    Comment by Gabriel Hanna (1b7def) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:33 am

  65. Ayers admitted to planting bombs that did property damage. He has never admitted to planting a bomb that killed someone, nor was he accused of being involved in a bombing that resulted in death. But, of course, the point of the Ayers story is to smear Obama, not to be accurate with the facts.

    Comment by PSPIV (c3230e) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:34 am

  66. So Maria Warren said “they were launching him”…. I guess we should consider Ms. Warren’s verbiage to stand in for facts.
    This gathering at the Ayers home was not the initiation of Obama’s political career, though it was arguably the first event in the “Hyde Park neighborhood…”
    I was unaware that this one neighborhood is ground zero for political campaigns.

    You want to discredit Barack Obama, simple as that — so you will take anything no matter how flimsy (such as one woman’s use of the word “launching”) and use it to prove your point.

    Please, you have only been asked to be fair and look into associations where John McCain may have shown a lack of judgment or for that matter… ANY member of Congress.
    Thank you

    Comment by Donna Freds (7df389) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:35 am

  67. Is Obama’s acquaintance with Ayers as openly anti-American as McCain’s aggressive opposition to POW returns from Vietnam?

    http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/31-oct-2005.html

    McCain has a long history of actively obstructing searches for Vietnam POWs.

    People flying black POW flags might want to ask why McCain has been their enemy for the last thirty years.

    Comment by JK (aed63c) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:38 am

  68. PSPIV: Osama bin Ladin didn’t hijack any planes on 9/11 either. By your logic, then, he’s a guiltless of 9/11 as Ayers is of the Weathermen’s murders and attempted murders.

    Your logic says more about you than you intend, I think.

    Comment by Gabriel Hanna (1b7def) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:39 am

  69. The seem to be working on the “crash my site” thing. Do you have your laptop in eyesight?

    Comment by Kevin (805c5b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:41 am

  70. Proves nothing. First, no confirmation. If this woman is out there, find her. Get confirmation. Second, how does she know that the coffee was the first coffee Obama has in someone’s living room. It could have just as easily have been the 51st, and the hosts could have still claimed they “launched” Obama’s career. You guys will grasp at anything–except relevant issues, of course.

    Comment by Austin (96c01c) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:43 am

  71. PSPIV: Imagine this scenario:

    “At a press conference today, Barack Obama defended himself against recurrent implications that his longtime association with Bill Ayers, dating back to the launching of his state senatorial career in the former terrorist’s living room in 1995, is a problem, saying,

    “Ayers admitted to planting bombs that did property damage. He has never admitted to planting a bomb that killed someone, nor was he accused of being involved in a bombing that resulted in death. But, of course, the point of the Ayers story is to smear [me], not to be accurate with the facts.”

    Think that would fly? Why might that not be the approach that Obama has taken?

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:44 am

  72. Donna intentionally misses the point. SHOCKA>

    PSPIV – Assuming arguendo that what you say is true … never mind. If you would make apologies or excuses for Bill Ayers, that says all I need to know about you and your politics.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:46 am

  73. When are you people going to wake up and realize that nobody cares about Ayers? People are scared for their jobs and homes and children, and McCain has not given any solutions to these massive problems the American people are facing. He is 73 years old. That generation has had there chance and look where we are. America needs a change. Something big needs to happen because we have been headed done a bad road for a while. John McCain does not care about the average American. And all of you who can’t see through him and especially Palin, I feel sorry for you and this great country.

    Comment by John (517677) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am

  74. The “clean-up” of blogs, and the deletion of SNL material at the behest of Barney Frank’s organization, reminds me of … the work of the “Ministry of Truth” in George Orwell’s book, “1984″. There, the hero discovers that the Government of Big Brother has been re-writing history! Comment by MKS — 10/20/2008 @ 9:53 am

    Indeed. Not only rewriting the history books but editing primary source documents.

    Why would the unrepentant Weatherman and speaker at SDS reunions endorse anybody other than someone who was at least far left?

    I bet I know where there is good documentation of when Obama met Ayers; in a file on Dohrn and Ayers in a certain federal agency. Even though more than a decade old, I’m not sure if they’re viewable (if findable).

    Don’t you wonder just what was going on behind the scenes for a guy with this background to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate? They must have assumed that enough people who were adults in the 60′s and 70′s have died so there wasn’t a gut-felt reaction to the term “Weather Underground”.

    Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am

  75. Just a reminder…

    Don’t forget about the career of Mrs. Ayers!
    Ms. Dohrn is directly associated with bombs that killed people.

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am

  76. Austin – I think, had you read the comments in this thread, and the comments on this topic in general, you would see that we do not really give a flying monkeyshit if it was the 1st of the 51st meeting that Baracky attended. The relationship with Ayers is at issue, not the timeline, or the semantic games you and your fellow travelers would like to play.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am

  77. …also…McCain’s NOT the “family values” candidate…

    McCain was denounced by both Nancy Reagan and Ross Perot for his unmanly ethics:

    http://freecindymccain.com/page4.html

    (note also that the relevant Reagan blog has been removed)

    Comment by JK (aed63c) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:56 am

  78. Here’s something from the New York Times.

    It was later in 1995 that Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn hosted the gathering, in their town house three blocks from Mr. Obama’s home, at which State Senator Alice J. Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced Mr. Obama to a few Democratic friends as her chosen successor. That was one of several such neighborhood events as Mr. Obama prepared to run, said A. J. Wolf, the 84-year-old emeritus rabbi of KAM Isaiah Israel Synagogue, across the street from Mr. Obama’s current house.

    “If you ask my wife, we had the first coffee for Barack,” Rabbi Wolf said. He said he had known Mr. Ayers for decades but added, “Bill’s mad at me because I told a reporter he’s a toothless ex-radical.”

    Comment by Lou Shumaker (1db1d2) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:57 am

  79. Comment by John — 10/20/2008 @ 10:50 am

    Never trust anyone over thirty!

    But, you might want to re-take Bonehead English so as to straighten out those syntax rules:
    “…That generation has had there chance…”

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:00 am

  80. at which State Senator Alice J. Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced Mr. Obama to a few Democratic friends as her chosen successor

    If by chosen successor you mean that she volunteered to have her nominating petition challenged in Court by Baracky, and thrown out, then yeah, that sounds about right.

    You will note the multiple links to Sen. Palmer’s actual words on the subject upthread.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:04 am

  81. Patterico – 500 errors have been pretty common the last couple hours … just sayin’

    I love all of the new trolls that drop by to prove what we already thought of them.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:07 am

  82. Patterico, please. Obama was 8 when Ayers was blowing stuff up. You should be more concerned about the fact that Ayers is a college professor teaching young impressionable minds, if you think he’s a terrorist. I mean, some of your white grandparents and parents were throwing rocks and bottles and insults at unarmed black children trying to go to school when southern school were integrated. If those are not acts of terrorism I don’t know what is, and yet is anyone accusing those folks? Obama has denounced Ayers’ past activities–what more can anyone do? Talk about desparately grabbing at straws! Give it up already!

    Comment by Rhoda (88bf49) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:11 am

  83. You people need to ask yourselves not just why BO associates himself with Ayers, but why Ayers associate himself with Obama. What has Ayers seen in him for SO LONG, that he has supported him? Why is it the media is not camped outside Ayers’ door trying to get him to talk and trying to find out what they are hiding about BO’s REAL agenda, but we know all about Joe the plumbers taxes, personal life, salary, blood type…BO does SOMETHING Ayers agrees with, which tells me simply they have the same view of this country, the same view of education, same views on the judicial system, the same views on civil servants, the same views on our military and defense systems worldwide, etc, etc, etc,… Associations mean a hell of a lot and I’m absolutely frightened by the mindless followers of BO that are only looking for their handouts, but that’s what I expect from these people that would give their vote to this man they don’t know/care to know about-”me first, country last”… Time to read up on the founding documents and kiss them goodbye because they’re going to be stomped on Nov 4- this country will now reflect the country that the founding fathers feared most.
    WAKE
    UP!
    God bless America
    McCain/Palin 08

    Comment by Sammy (bae233) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:20 am

  84. Obama was 8 when Ayers was blowing stuff up.

    Whistle. Strawman on the field. How old was Baracky when he chose to associate himself with Bill Ayers?

    I mean, some of your white grandparents and parents were throwing rocks and bottles and insults at unarmed black children trying to go to school when southern school were integrated

    Evidence of that? Or are you just pulling shit out of your ass and attempting to smear Republicans with the actions of Democrats? Wallace, Sen. Byrd, and Bull Conner were your folks …

    If those are not acts of terrorism I don’t know what is, and yet is anyone accusing those folks?

    Nobody is accusing the Democrats of being terrorists, except you.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:20 am

  85. The evidence that the Ayers-Dohrn coffee occurred prior to Obama’s Ramada Inn kick-off announcement or was even the first of such coffees is insubstantial.

    Comment by steve (088786) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:23 am

  86. Comment by Rhoda — 10/20/2008 @ 11:11 am

    Rhoda is another candidate for a repeat of Bonehead English.

    Rhoda, it doesn’t matter how old Obi-wan was when Ayers was blowing things up.
    The critical item is that he associates with an un-repentant terrorist.
    I am sure that you would be quite comfortable breaking-bread with Eric Rudolph, or Timothy McVeigh, since you were much younger when they were blowing things up too.
    Oh, but wait, they’re not Professors of Education, responsible for passing on the knowledge of our Elders to young, impressionable “skulls full of mush”, are they?

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:24 am

  87. The best documented probable Obama-Ayers-Dohrn-Michelle link really goes back to at least 1987, when Michelle, Dohrn, and Obama all worked at Sidley Austin together.

    At any rate, Obama probably knew Ayers and Dohrn long before they hosted their “coffee” to introduce Obama to the Chicago political scene. Who does that for someone that they don’t ALREADY know, or who they don’t already agree with politically and want to promote?

    The question is: If the connection is so innocent, why are Obama and his people making such efforts to sanitize the historical record?

    If it smells fishy, it probably is.

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:27 am

  88. Quote from reader “When are you people going to wake up and realize that nobody cares about Ayers? People are scared for their jobs and homes and children, and McCain has not given any solutions to these massive problems the American people are facing. He is 73 years old. That generation has had there chance and look where we are. America needs a change. Something big needs to happen because we have been headed done a bad road for a while. John McCain does not care about the average American. And all of you who can’t see through him and especially Palin, I feel sorry for you and this great country.”

    Just what solution has Obama given for creating jobs? All I hear from him is to share the wealth. To share the wealth, he has to tax working people and give the money to lazy ass people on welfare as entitlements. I personally don’t work nor do I feel that anyone is entitled to share in the wealth that I earn by working hard. If he starts taking my money for this, I’ll leave the country for a friendler one or will quit working and draw my “entitlements” and enjoy sharing the wealth of others.

    Comment by Don Bearden (0cdf88) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:35 am

  89. So we are trusting the word of someone who “says” she was there? Does she have proof she was there? Pictures? Witnesses?
    I think this is just another attempt to derail Barack Obama.
    Obama is a good man and is going to make a GREAT president.
    Personally I am sick of everyone trying to make him out to be something or someone that he is not! This whole thing is just another sad attempt to elect John McSame into the white house.
    I mean come on now people….have the past 8 years not been bad enough? Now you want to add another 4 horrible years of presidency?
    I dont!
    Obama 08!

    Comment by Timmons (8f0b57) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:40 am

  90. So we are trusting the word of someone who “says” she was there? Does she have proof she was there? Pictures? Witnesses?
    I think this is just another attempt to derail Barack Obama.
    Obama is a good man and is going to make a GREAT president.
    Personally I am sick of everyone trying to make him out to be something or someone that he is not! This whole thing is just another sad attempt to elect John McSame into the white house.
    I mean come on now people….have the past 8 years not been bad enough? Now you want to add another 4 horrible years of presidency?
    I dont!
    Obama 08!

    Comment by Timmons (8f0b57) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:40 am

  91. The fact that Ayers could become a “respected educator” working on “school reform” reflects poorly on Chicago.

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:40 am

  92. for of all. If Obama serves on a board with the man and he is invted into his living room, who cares!! McCain went on 9 vacations with Keating… count them 9.. He hung out with the guy.. A convicted Felon… G. Gordon liddy.. great friend to him as well… I do not care what this guy did because “OBAMA DIDN’T DO IT!!!” He is a true american!! one that can look past what people did 30 or 40 years ago and not make judgements against them!!! their were people who burned flags, set things on fire alot of these people were on drugs!! if they have turned their life around so be it!!! and he never said in his book in 1981 that he wished he bombed more.. He said he wish he would have done more. That could be taken any way.. it could have mean that he wished he would have done more legally!! get a life.. Obama is going to win and get used to it!!!

    Comment by susanforobama (7f207d) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:43 am

  93. We haven’t been attacked again since 2001. Why? Because Bush recognized we were AT WAR and took the fight to THEM (radical Islam), instead of responding with meaningless warrants, Miranda readings, and feckless Justice Dept. criminal actions.

    Do I want 4 more years of THAT? Heck YEAH! So should you.

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:48 am

  94. Just one tiny question for the Obamamites out there who claim that the association between Ayers and Obama is no big deal: If there is no fire there, why is someone trying to put it out?

    Comment by Tcobb (7d4a63) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:48 am

  95. I relate Obama has the same eloquent rhetoric as Napolean, Hitler, & Charles Manson. Lots of ignorant people listened to them also.

    Comment by Jan (2c139a) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:55 am

  96. you save but I cannot forward to MCCain/Palin and
    undecided voters. Please make it forwardable.
    Thank you.

    Comment by Elvie B. Aldana (294b06) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:59 am

  97. Please make forwardable. Thank you

    Comment by Elvie B. Aldana (294b06) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:00 pm

  98. To those who think McCain’s past should be checked for unsavory characters: You do it. We know you’ll enjoy yourselves.

    Comment by Jim C. (33af9d) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:02 pm

  99. cCain palled around with Charles Keating. Remember Keating who robbed us taxpayers of billions of dollars? McCain palled around with the founder of organizaton who funded the Contra, the right wing death squad who killed THOUSANDS of people in Central America. This founder also was a known Nazi collaborator. Palin’s own husband was a member of a terrorist group, the Alaska Independence Party, who want to secede from the United States.. Palin and McCain are the most UNpatriotic duo this side of Maverick country. You betcha!!

    Comment by hillbilly4 the RP (e435fb) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:02 pm

  100. Great that you saved a copy. Why this bit of trivia could put McCain in the White House. It’s what has been on the minds of all those losing their jobs and retirement $’s. Good job!!

    P.S. Get a life.

    Comment by russ (fde117) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:02 pm

  101. You people are trying to white-wash your racist ideology by the character assination Senator Obama. You should try focusing your anger on the WORST president in history – George Wrong Bush. PERIOD ….

    Comment by saw55 (6876d5) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:03 pm

  102. whats the big deal with a bombing or two against the illeagle war in Viet Nam, we have plenty of fascist selling our country to big buisness right this minute.

    Comment by Adolf Hitler (26df2b) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:05 pm

  103. It’s funny how Obamaniacs say that Obama shouldn’t be criticized because of “guilt by association” with Ayers, Wright, Rezko, et al, but then hyperventilate about McCain’s association with Keating. As if that’s a tit-for-tat, moral equivalence excuse for Obama.

    And the “Obama was only 8-years old” thing gets tiresome, too. You could excuse an 8-year old for being ignorant. But you can’t excuse a (supposedly) intelligent adult with (supposedly) good judgment for becoming friends with an unrepentant terrorist who still cavorts with America’s enemies.

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:05 pm

  104. “MUSINGS & MIGRAINES” is admitting the scrubbing:
    Gawkers Look Elsewhere, or Better Yet, Get A Life
    =-=-=-=-=-=
    Gawkers Look Elsewhere, or Better Yet, Get A Life
    Jeez! The howls of indignation. Grow up, people. Yes, it’s gone; that oh-so-exciting post that people can’t seem to get enough of. We know deleting doesn’t erase it from memory. Like so much urine in a swimming pool, trace elements will remain.

    For those of you trolling this site for dirt on Obama and Ayers, please look elsewhere. Red Rabbit and the rest of us have said our piece which doesn’t amount to much beyond that yes there was an event which we attended and which has been part of public record for years. If you want to have a serious debate on how progressive Obama truly is then we can talk. But judging from the traffic stats and the comments I doubt that’s what you’re looking for.

    This site has been pretty hard on Obama but has always criticized him from a progressive standpoint. Quite frankly the accusation that Obama would have a terrorist agenda is laughable considering what a cautious politician he is. Nor should Ayers be tried anew for his weather underground activities. His radical bonafides are so outdated, calling him a terrorist is giving him way too much credit.

    So go to the Boston Globe, or Politico.com or wherever else we’ve been quoted. As for us, this blog is independently run, and reserves the right to pull material, specifically if that material hurts the blog at large. Moreover the post in question was up LONG before this election and in the last several months has been woefully distorted to slander a private citizen.

    Meanwhile, shouldn’t you look to your own candidate? He ain’t doin’ so well.
    POSTED BY LENORA AT 11:30 AM 2 COMMENTS
    =-=-=-=-=

    It’d probably be a good idea to screen-grab this ASAP before it too disappears.

    Comment by Sarnac (43c809) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:07 pm

  105. #67 Austin

    First, no confirmation. If this woman is out there, find her. Get confirmation.

    Austin, keep up; she’s been found. As recently as this week, deleting that January 27, 2005, entry from her blog. And, on February 22, 2008, Politico reported that when she was “contacted by e-mail, Warren declined to describe the meeting further and later blogged of her concern that Republicans would use accounts of the event for ‘left-baiting.’” Politico, then, has gotten that desired confirmation.

    Second, how does she know that the coffee was the first coffee Obama has in someone’s living room. It could have just as easily have been the 51st, and the hosts could have still claimed they “launched” Obama’s career.

    “Barack Obama launched his political career from Bill Ayers’s living room,” Austin, not “the coffee was the first coffee Obama had in someone’s living room.” And “the hosts”–that would be Ayers and Dohrn–have, alas, not “claimed they ‘launched’ Obama’s career”; they have not chimed in on this one in any published report and they are not responding to news reporters’ requests for interviews on this topic. Nor is Obama (key point!). But, look! We have a characterization of the event provided by two of the invited guests, again via Politico: “Dr. Young and another guest, Maria Warren, described it similarly: as an introduction to Hyde Park liberals of the handpicked successor to Palmer, a well-regarded figure on the left.” So how about let’s swap out “launched” for “introduced” and gather together under “introduced” all of the 1995 Chicago-area promotional events that ushered in Barack’s bid for the state senate.
    All of these points are in the links in Patterico’s entry, Austin. Click and learn.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:08 pm

  106. sorry for the typos my flag pin stabbed me in the heart

    Comment by Adolf Hitler (26df2b) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:08 pm

  107. Hey Jan, the most ignorant people put George Wrong Bush in office. That’s why the demographics of people with high IQ’s and education are supporting Senator Obama and not psuedo-maverick. The real maverick in this arena is Sec. Colin Powel. Wicked…Ya Man

    Comment by saw55 (6876d5) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:12 pm

  108. MCCAIN’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google McCain and the Contra.

    SARAH’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party.

    Comment by heck46 (e435fb) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:14 pm

  109. MCCAIN’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google McCain and the Contra.

    SARAH’S TIES TO TERRORISTS: google Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party.

    Comment by heck46 (e435fb) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:14 pm

  110. I’m always amused that Obamatrons go so quickly to the racism card when it’s Obama who spent 20 years as a member of a church built on a racist ideology and donated tens of thousands of dollars to it.

    Comment by Karl (f07e38) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:14 pm

  111. Patterico, please. Obama was 8 when Ayers was blowing stuff up.

    In what year did Ayers’ actions become OK?

    You should be more concerned about the fact that Ayers is a college professor teaching young impressionable minds, if you think he’s a terrorist.

    Some of us are equally concerned about that. It’s not so much that Ayers has changed his ideology, it’s that he’s changed his method of achieving it. Whereas before, he was content to blow up people (with “non-violent bombs”), now he’s seeking to blow up young minds.

    I mean, some of your white grandparents and parents were throwing rocks and bottles and insults at unarmed black children trying to go to school when southern school were integrated.

    Let’s look at this “thought” from a few different angles:

    1. What if some of us didn’t have white grandparents and parents?

    2. What if some of our grandparents and parents, no matter what color they were, didn’t grow up in the South?

    3. Even if some of our grandparents and parents did participate in these things, what would that have to do with anyone here? You may not know this but one cannot choose their relatives. They can, however, chose who they use to further their political career.

    If those are not acts of terrorism I don’t know what is, and yet is anyone accusing those folks?

    Well, if Bill Ayers is rehabilitated now, why would the people throwing the rocks and bottles be since that happened _BEFORE_ Bill Ayers conspired to murder hundreds. Maybe we can get some of the rock and bottle throwers professorships too?

    Obama has denounced Ayers’ past activities–what more can anyone do?

    The facts indicate Obama is hiding something. Many of us want to know what that is.

    Talk about desparately grabbing at straws! Give it up already!

    Comment by Rhoda — 10/20/2008 @ 11:11 am

    Thanks for the tip!

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:15 pm

  112. be careful what you ask Obama you could end up like Joe the plumber. Also be careful what you say to an unsolicited phone call from obama’s campaign staff, or the secret service will come calling. Be careful what you say at a rally for the secret service will investigate. Now why does a person have this much pull with the secret service and have to have their protection 9 months before any other presidential candidate.

    Comment by iknownothing (6e5291) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:15 pm

  113. Only one problem with your premise, talking to people in someone’s living room is not “launching a campaign”, the post is from 2005, she talks about supporting him in the last race, but not before, so that would have to be years before 2005 as well… So, he was being absolutely truthful… facts are difficult things, aren’t they?

    Comment by Halis (d261d9) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:17 pm

  114. Only one problem with your premise, talking to people in someone’s living room is not “launching a campaign”, the post is from 2005, she talks about supporting him in the last race, but not before, so that would have to be years before 2005 as well… So, he was being absolutely truthful… facts are difficult things, aren’t they?

    Comment by Halis — 10/20/2008 @ 12:17 pm

    Consider getting “hooked on phonics.”

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:19 pm

  115. #87 Timmons

    So we are trusting the word of someone who “says” she was there? Does she have proof she was there? Pictures? Witnesses?

    See #101.
    And remember that her entry recording her attendance “in the livingroom of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn” when “they were launching [Obama]–introducing him to the Hyde Park community” was posted in January 2005. On the significance of that timing having far preceded Barack’s current bid for office, see Treacher.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:21 pm

  116. When Obama was 8, Bill Ayers was bombing targets in America on behalf of his support for the North Vietnamese and his own war against the US.

    When Obama was 8, John McCain was being tortured as a POW by the North Vietnamese for bombing targets in Vietnam as part of his military service to the US, during a war started by the lies of a Democratic president (LBJ, Gulf of Tonkin).

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:22 pm

  117. Timmons…great point, she just SAYS she was there. Just like BO SAYS he wasn’t. In fact nobody was there. Even better than that, the there wasn’t even there. It wasn’t even real. Just like this post. It doesn’t exist either. Nothing doesn’t even exist.

    Comment by torabora (d0afd2) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:24 pm

  118. Associating with Bill Ayers is like…

    …playing golf with OJ Simpson.

    Comment by furious (56af6d) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:27 pm

  119. OK, for all of the Kosmonuts that keep coming here asking for further proof, I provide you with the bastion of the vast right-wing conspiracy, the New York Times:

    It was later in 1995 that Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn hosted the gathering, in their town house three blocks from Mr. Obama’s home, at which State Senator Alice J. Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced Mr. Obama to a few Democratic friends as her chosen successor.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:28 pm

  120. Therealbarackobama has a screenshot of a February 23, 2005 blog posting by “Red Rabbit” (a poster mentioned by Lenora of Musings & Migraines; no. 101 above) adding the information that the coffee hosted at the Ayers/Dohrn home was “in late November of 1995.”

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:32 pm

  121. Obama has denounced Ayers’ past activities–what more can anyone do?

    Of course he has — Obama has no further need of the man, his living room, or his education grants.

    Obama has already played and benefitted from the float. “Denouncing” Ayers is as no-cost to Obama as covering kited checks. And speaking of Obama’s campaign finances….

    –furious

    Comment by furious (56af6d) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:32 pm

  122. The bottom line is that the Obamas knew Ayers and Dohrn long BEFORE 1995.

    They met as early as 1987 at Sidley Austin, possibly even before then in NYC at Columbia.

    The question is:

    Why are they hiding this from the American people?

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:35 pm

  123. There are so many things I would like to respond to, but I will try to keep it short.
    1) I can think of another time in history when a man promised change to a people whose economy was falling out from under their feet, and in order to help get him to the top of the heap quicker he manipulated the system to remove bothersome opponents and somehow managed to talk other people into relinquishing their position to him in order to make way for his charisma and promise of “hope” for a better life to the people of their great country – does the story sound familiar, it should – I’m talking about Adolf Hitler, read the history books. IT HAPPENED AND APPEARS TO BE HAPPENING AGAIN. And that is my greatest fear – that this man will not be stopped on Nov. 4th. Hitler didn’t tell the people he would take away their freedoms. He didn’t go into great detail about how he would bring about this change to create a more prosperous life for them – just promised them a better life. He also touted racism and class struggles to gain votes. Yes, he accused the Jews of being the wealth behind the oppression of the middle and lower class. Sound familiar – listen to the sermons of Rev. Wright.
    2) His associations don’t seem to bother him at all. Ayer’s is just one of those associations. But Obama claims it doesn’t matter what he did in the past He(the great BO) doesn’t agree with what he did then, just what he’s doing now so what he did when BO was 8 shouldn’t matter to BO as a grown man. WELL – I don’t know about the rest of the people out there – but I tend to shy away from people who have supported meaningless murder, attacks on our nation and so on – and I don’t even have any political aspirations. I AM ashamed of the occasional bigotted opinions that my grandparents displayed. They were wrong and there was no TRUE basis in their opinions other than ignorance.There is no excuse for them, they were wrong. Fortunately while they did have the occasional slip of ignorance – they were not overt racists, and the terms such as the *N* word or similar terms for hispanics were never used. I HAVE on occasion worked as a volunteer for community events in the small town I lived in prior to returning to Dallas. And as the ORGANIZER of this small event, I was always short handed and in need of volunteers HOWEVER there were several “volunteers” who I turned away – you see, I was working with children and didn’t want someone with a riddled and shady past being involved with them. So, although BO was only 8 when Ayers was active in the Weather Underground, SHAME ON YOU Barack for associating with such a person and helping him to push his agenda forward. I don’t care how reformed you want to believe he is, would you bring a “reformed” pedophile to the school picnic – I think not.
    3)McCain has my vote – and yes, I am white – I am not ashamed to admit it. But my vote is not and has never been based on the color of someone’s skin. And I say shame on ANYONE who would vote for McCain simply for being white or Obama simply for having a black father (remember – he’s not fully black – his black roots is what he has CHOSEN to identify with). I admonish bigotry at any opportunity. I let a woman behind me in line at the gas station know how horribly rude her comments were – when she asked “what is it nothing but mexican people in here today” somewhat under her breath. She has the right to freedom of speech – but so do I – my expression of that was to say she was rude, during an exchange of words I also called her a racist (I’m sorry but there is NO defense for a comment like that). At the end of the exchange she actually said “You know what – why don’t you just go vote for Obama while you are at it” I guess if you stand up and point out racism it automatically makes you liberal. I let her know that McCain has my vote but that doesn’t mean I’m racist – My point behind this is – WHAT A SHAME that this women is what people are seeing in McCain supporters – I was almost ashamed for it – because of people like HER – McCain loses support from those still sitting on the fence not sure what to do. SO my request is this. If the only argument you can come up with on behalf of McCain or against Obama is based on race – please keep your mouth shut, you are NOT helping. Educate and debate on PRINCIPLE and IDEOLOGIES – not race.

    I pray, I hope and I wish to see Nov 4th come and go without American’s electing a man whose path so closely reflects Hitler’s rise to power.

    Comment by JDK (869c3e) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:37 pm

  124. Didn’t Obama say during the debate that it was “absolutely not true” when McCain said he launched his political career from Ayers’s living room?

    I also think that CNN did a piece a few weeks ago detailing how Obama’s political “coming out” party occurred at Ayers’ house.

    And why do liberals think G.Gordon Liddy is a domestic terrorist? Did he ever bomb anything or kill anybody? Please let me know if he did, thanks.

    Comment by David H (188324) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:39 pm

  125. We have been blessed with some real nuggets of wisdom today …

    one that can look past what people did 30 or 40 years ago and not make judgements against them!!!

    That may be a feature to you. I think it is a bug.

    You people are trying to white-wash your racist ideology by the character assination Senator Obama

    RACISTS

    Get a life

    Devastating

    calling him a terrorist is giving him way too much credit.

    This Leftist says this like terrorist is something to aspire to.

    the most ignorant people put George Wrong Bush in office.

    It never takes long for a Leftist to claim their intellectual superiority all while demonstrating an inability to spell or utilize basic grammar.

    Patterico, please. Obama was 8 when Ayers was blowing stuff up.

    How old was Obama when he went to Ayers’ house? When he chose to work with him on multiple Boards?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:41 pm

  126. To say that “Ayers is reponsible for killing Americans” is one of the most misleading statements I have heard. What no one is saying is that the Americans that the bombs killed were of the “Weathermen” orgnization when the bomb they were making in the basement exploded. On another note, Liddy is a felon who has never repented.

    Comment by Delores Collins (5907f7) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:43 pm

  127. Gotta love how to a Obamatard the fact that Obama was friends and shared an ideology with a domestic terrorist is not only NOT important, but they think it’s equal to McCain knowing G. Gordon Liddy. Who did Liddy blow up? Nobody. How many cops did Liddy kill? Oh that’s right – none.

    Comment by Obamatard (9e66b3) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:45 pm

  128. This “evidence” includes nothing that indicates the beginning of a campaign for the presidency, which is what the McCain campaign wants gullible America to believe happened. They are trying to make chicken soup out of a rubber duck.

    Comment by equanimous (5e29f2) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:45 pm

  129. My favrorite McCain line these days -

    “I am not George Bush.”

    Not because of what he says but because of how the crowds react – they all scream their appreciation and loudly cry out in joy at the new revelation!!! This coming from the same people who elected, re-elected and have continually showered praise and adornment on George W. Bush and his “accomplishments” over the past 7 years.

    How can anyone who felt so strongly and highly of Bush be so thrilled when Senator John McCain now tries to hard to distance himself from the President, his policies and, most of all, his performance.

    Are these people now ashamed of their association and culpability with helping to launch and continue the political career of George W. Bush?

    It may not be terrorism but it sure is terrific irony!

    Comment by R Cutchens (3a2c81) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:47 pm

  130. you know reading what half of you write and believe just says that white america is afraid of a black president. it really shows the true belief of a person when faced with a certain reality. its killing you to know that a black man could be in charge of our great white country its ok to adore him if hes running a touchdown on your favorite team or scoring the winning basket. but the fact remains underneath you are racist as hell

    Comment by blkamerican (1b5bbd) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:53 pm

  131. I am reading more comments from hyocrites. Even endorsed Obama–so what? This is America or is it the country of guilt by association? I am friends and associate with a number of people who share different political background. By the same token, some of you so call “I only associate with true Americans, probably don’t know anyone who has done something wrong in the past and has paid their dues. Again so what? I don’t assoiate with unwed mothers. Does that make Pailin disagreeable to me. No live and let live and stop looking for a reason the keep us as Americans separate.

    Comment by J Crawford (4f6217) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:58 pm

  132. The thing that everyone seems to be missing is that Obama launched his political career on September 19, 1995 when he announced his candidacy for the Illinois State Senate at a lakefront Ramada Inn in Chicago. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=5. The meet and greet at Ayers’ and Dorn’s residence was not until November, 1995. Claiming that he launched his political career in Ayers’ living room (although that only matters to paranoid, delusional people) is untrue.

    Comment by Gary (535c7b) — 10/20/2008 @ 12:58 pm

  133. If you want to condemn obama for having ties with ayers….then guess what people….you have to condemn Reagan and McCaib as well. People who served on reagan’s administration were also part of the charity board. politicians who have ties with the McCain campagin funded the chairt in 1999. So before you decide to make comments, no your facts. It’s amazing what people resort to when they run out of ammo to defend themselves. How funny the right side is…it really makes me laugh.

    Comment by treehouse (20bc95) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:00 pm

  134. The difference between Liddy and Ayers?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy

    “He [Liddy] served a total of five and half years in prison, including over 100 days in solitary confinement, before his sentence was commuted by President Jimmy Carter and he was released on September 7, 1977.”

    “When David Letterman asked McCain about his relationship with Liddy, McCain said, ‘I know Gordon Liddy. He paid his debt. He went to prison and paid his debt, as people do. I’m not in any way embarrassed to know Gordon Liddy.’”

    Compare and contrast this with the way Obama is handling his connection with Ayers.

    Comment by fdcol63 (022fc8) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:02 pm

  135. Maybe Obama is afraid it will lead to Obama’s membership in the Socialist “New Party”?
    This was part of a post on 11/96:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20010724081433/www.populist.com/11.96.Edit.html

    New Party members and supported candidates won 16 of 23 races, including an at-large race for the Little Rock, Ark., City Council, a seat on the county board for Little Rock and the school board for Prince George’s County, Md. Chicago is sending the first New Party member to Congress, as Danny Davis, who ran as a Democrat, won an overwhelming 85% victory. New Party member Barack Obama was uncontested for a State Senate seat from Chicago.

    Comment by SH (7ae50f) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:04 pm

  136. how far under do u need to go to say that the 90+% of blacks voting 4 Obama are not racist? Finding a black including Colon Powell not supporting Obama is as hard as finding a Kennedy who has a real job! Fact is Obama is an oppertunist, using anyone or means to gain his power. Ayers, Wright, Powell, Hillary, are all pawns in his elitist marxist mind.

    Comment by jim nice (2db0d5) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:09 pm

  137. I guess I am just too stupid to give a darn about Ayers and Dorhn. Ayers certainly has rehabilitated himself. He apparently is well regarded despite his past. He apparently has served on the same board with distinguished individuals including prominent Republicans. He apparently was named Chicagoan of the year. So what is this guilt by association thing? Obama states one undispoutable fact: he was 8 years when Ayers involved with the Weather underground. How old was McCain when he associated with Keating or Liddy? The apologists for Keating and Liddy claim that they never hurt anyone, ok. Actually, Ayers never did either. There is nothing to indicate that Obama supported Ayers’ radical youth. It is a non-sequitur to use a tar brush to smear Obama because Ayers may have supported Obama. Even the worst criminal may have voted for a good candidate.

    Comment by jerry lastow (b888c1) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:12 pm

  138. How about this, Mr. Obama knows the discussions this particular meeting, incident, whatever one wants to call it. To alleviate all the discussions and doubts, why not tell the American everything, that way, he just might have all those independents voting him. I for one, will not vote for him because I think he is a liar and manipulator. Mr. Obama, tell me the truth, it just might change my mind, or not.

    Comment by Brenda (dcc693) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:14 pm

  139. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. That is what is great about this Land of America. Does that, however, mean that we must bash the other guy’s opinion? If you strongly believe in something, try arguing the validity of your choice, rather than going after the person who opposes your choice. I think you will find a broader listening audience. Even if they do not come over to your side, they might retain some of the points you make, and make them begin to see that maybe there is another side to this prism that they have blinded themselves to.

    We need to love and educate each other, not teach hatred against those who do not think like we do…

    Comment by noperfect1 (97708f) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:15 pm

  140. Character matters. BHO was willing to have a launch coffee at the house of an unrepentant terriorist. BHO is unwilling to admit that JSM was right about Georgia, right about Fannie & Freddie and right about the surge. He (BHO)is the 2nd highest recepient of dollars from Fannie & Freddie. #1 is Chris Dodd…Chairman of the Banking committee. BHO is almost up to his level, but he has managed it in 2 1/2 years where it took Dodd 30 years!! The former Chairman & the former vice chairman of Fannie/Freddie are his chief economic advisors. Where are the media reports of this???? Or has that all been expunged as well? I think that all of the lawyers in public office need to be voted out. We need more “regular” folks there.

    McCain/Palin 08

    Comment by dan stark (9d8f58) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm

  141. Nobody will convince the astroturf commenters as they do not have the apparatus to receive; only transmit the talking points. I especially enjoy the moron who is mad at McCain because McCain exposed the people who were taking money from MIA families and giving them lies about POWs still alive in Laos. It was a nice little industry for a while. No wonder JK(#64) is pissed. He probably had to get a job.

    Comment by Mike K (1ac1c7) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm

  142. BTW, Insta-lanche.

    Comment by Karl (f07e38) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm

  143. Treehouse,

    If you want to condemn obama[sic] for having ties with ayers[sic]….then guess what people….you have to condemn Reagan and McCaib[sic] as well. People who served on reagan’s[sic] administration were also part of the charity board. politicians[sic] who have ties with the McCain campagin funded the chairt[sic] in 1999. So before you decide to make comments, no[sic] your facts. It’s amazing what people resort to when they run out of ammo to defend themselves. How funny the right side is…it really makes me laugh.

    Comment by treehouse — 10/20/2008 @ 1:00 pm

    Gosh treehouse, how many typos and how much twisted syntax can you get in one posting? Lets be honest. If there was still a literacy test required for voting, Obama would still be an unexperienced state senator from Illinois.

    Comment by wwpl (519ac8) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:16 pm

  144. WOW, how much can you make of ONE incident that occurred many years ago? Evidently, quite a lot if you have nothing else to talk about. Are all of the other folks that served on boards with Ayers also terrorists? How about talking about some of the plans and proposals that the two are putting out. Surely there is some reason other than a rather loose association many years ago that you can find to oppose Obama. I also object to everyone calling all those who support Obama liberals. I consider myself more of a conservative than the current crop of Republicans who have tripled the national debt and taken the country from a budget surplus to a huge deficit in only eight years. I always thought the term conservative included fiscal responsibility.

    Comment by Sam (0963cd) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:19 pm

  145. Wow..isn’t it refreshing to see all the scum bubble up to the top…a lot of you people actually hate America and wish its destruction..Your doing a great job with all you bare hate!!Maybe we do need a revolution after all!!

    Comment by John McMaster (77ffe5) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:27 pm

  146. I consider myself more of a conservative than the current crop of Republicans who have tripled the national debt and taken the country from a budget surplus to a huge deficit in only eight years. I always thought the term conservative included fiscal responsibility.

    Comment by Sam

    Dream on. If you (assuming you are a real person and not a comment posting bot) would read about the CAC activities, you would learn a bit about what a farce that was. Millions spent on attempts to radicalize minority children who can’t even read.

    Maybe you should read Ayres’ speech praising Hugo Chavez to get an idea of Ayres and Obama’s plans for education.

    Here, I’ll help:

    Luis has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle—I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.

    Does that help ?

    Comment by Mike K (1ac1c7) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:35 pm

  147. Delores Collins @ #122 is making a charge for most disingenuous moonbat of the day.

    #124 just savaged a strawman.

    #126 gives us …

    you know reading what half of you write and believe just says that white america is afraid of a black president.

    This drivel is as predictable as the sun rising.

    its killing you to know that a black man could be in charge of our great white country its ok to adore him if hes running a touchdown on your favorite team or scoring the winning basket. but the fact remains underneath you are racist as hell

    And its evidence of this is … I presume, because we are not voting for Baracky. Racists.

    #127 savages some straw men, I think, as it was generally incoherent.

    Gary at #128 attempts to argue semantics, ignores the contemporaneous reports of the people involved, but at least provides a link to the New Yorker. Bravo.

    So before you decide to make comments, no your facts.

    Is basic fuckin’ English grammar and spelling that damn difficult?!

    SH @ #130 – That is soooooooooooo incredibly racist to point that out. And it is a distraction.

    Ayers certainly has rehabilitated himself.

    Do explain.

    Obama states one undispoutable fact: he was 8 years when Ayers involved with the Weather underground.

    undispoutable? Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you meant indisputable (Good Allah these trolls are mendoucheous), how old was Baracky when he chose to associate with Ayers?

    they never hurt anyone, ok. Actually, Ayers never did either.

    This flies in the face of all known facts …

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:35 pm

  148. An important point to note: the accounts regarding Obama’s political “coming out party” differ on one very important salient point. As Maria Warren pointed out in her 2005 statement (before it became necessary for Obama’s supporters to try to rewrite history to protect Obama from his past), it was AYERS AND DOHRN who set up the meet-and-greet meeting. THEY were the ones introducing Obama to the Hyde Park political left. More recent accounts, such as Ben Smith’s attempted to cover over that very important fact by saying that the event was set up by Alice Palmer so that she could introduce her successor. It is extremely important to note that this assertion, which comes from the Obama campaign, is a lie which attempts to cover up Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn’s direct involvement in launching Obama’s career. Investigative reporters at CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 also confirmed this recently (much to Cooper’s surprise although he seems to buried it since), when they interviewed two people who were at the event in 1995 who both stated that Alice Palmer DID NOT set up the event, that AYERS set up the event, that Alice Palmer was just a guest, and that she went to the event briefly and then left. And we also have CNN’s quote of Alice Palmer herself saying she didn’t organize it. People just don’t seem to get this. Ayers was a TERRORIST. He tried to KILL PEOPLE. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, his bombs were not prankster pipe bombs. They were designed to KILL. The one that was intended for US Military personnel even had nails to maximize the damage. The only differences between him and Timothy McVeigh are that McVeigh was a better bomb builder and Ayers got off on a technicality, but has admitted his guilt.

    If you have any conscience, do a thought experiment: try to imagine standing in the same room as someone like Ayers, no matter how long ago the bombings happened (and please be aware he still promotes shis radical agenda — he just uses his post as an “education professor” to do it). The thought of even standing near Ayers fills a conscionable person with a sense of repugnance. So it is ridiculous to downplay what it means that Obama WORKED with the man for years, was FRIENDS with him, and had his political career LAUNCHED IN HIS HOUSE. It means Obama is a man without morals, without conscience.

    Comment by Concerned Citizen X (de2cd5) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:37 pm

  149. Patterico – Did somebody declare a Carnival of the Clueless over here this afternoon? Where did all these moron Obama supporters come from? Why are they scared about truth of the relationship between Ayers and Obama actually getting reported? If there is nothing to it they wouldn’t be worried. Maybe another important action alert got sent out by the campaign.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:41 pm

  150. We need to love and educate each other, not teach hatred against those who do not think like we do…

    The new Left’s definition of hatred seems to be disagreeing with the Left.

    Are all of the other folks that served on boards with Ayers also terrorists?

    Nope. Only the ones that made and planted bombs.

    lot of you people actually hate America and wish its destruction..Your doing a great job with all you bare hate!!Maybe we do need a revolution after all!!

    Proof of this?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:42 pm

  151. Not to be a party-pooper, but a screen shot like that doesn’t prove much. Easily faked. You’d have to have IE7 make you a PDF of the page for it to be more credible, because that’s not as easily faked. Still fakable.

    I can take any web site in existence, change the words on it on the fly, and take a screen shot. Easy. So if you’re going to save screen shots of pages, do it with a PDF.

    Comment by George (7e3bdc) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:45 pm

  152. i care that obama launched his political carreer in bill ayers living room,i care more that he is allowed to teach any of our children in college,or any where else for that matter,,obama has made some very scarrrrry friends during his short life,we should worry about all his back ground,we should worry about how he wants to take our money we worked our butts off for and give it to people that don’t want to work,,what we need to really worry about is the people in washington that decide where our money goes,,,the nancy polesi,harry reid,franks,dodd,that have given a free ride to the ones that put us main street people in harms way by letting fanny,freddie wallstreet grab big bucks and then expect us to pay for their crimes,,this is all crap and it needs to stop,and only way is court and by our votes,,wake up america

    Comment by jo (5e8a47) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:48 pm

  153. All I know is that if Obama and McCain were standing on a stage together, and Jesus Christ himself came down and said LET HE WHO HAS NEVER ASSOCIATED WITH “UNDESIRABLES” CAST THE FIRST STONE, NEITHER COULD DO IT.

    As others have said if Ayers was good enough to be a Professor at a Major “State Supported” University and serve on a board with prominent Republicans, who was Obama to question his credentials upon meeting him at a time when he was a ‘nobody’. As long as he’s not part of his current campaign or future administration – WHO CARES?

    If you were now 45 years old, and met a respectable college professor and education board advocate, and you found out he robbed banks when you were a child, would you not give him the benefit of the doubt that if the University hired him, and all these prominent people think so highly of him, his past is just that HIS PAST!

    Senator Byrd was a Klansman many years ago, does that mean all the other Senator’s who worked with him in the Senate, or heaven forbid became friends and hug out with him oustide the Senate supported the beliefs of the Klan or wanted to become members themselves?

    Comment by Thinkaboutit (207535) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:50 pm

  154. It is in no way appropriate to defend Ayers or Dorne for what they did. But to castigate everyone around them, who was drawn in by their web to legitimize themselves, is a hugh waste of time.

    Just as if we were to spend time drawing out the extent of Sen. McCain’s involvement with Charles Keating, which really were illegal acts carried out by the candidate. He really did take bribes and other perks (vacations,all expense paid junkets) to stop or hinder investigation/prosecution of Keating for theft, fraud, bribery and and many other charges.

    Obama has done none of these things.

    Comment by HH (1b8363) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm

  155. So… let me get this straight:

    Obama gathering at Ayers home (known or unknown)=/equals ‘pal’ling around with a terrorist whereas…

    McCain’s knowing and well documented association as part of the Keating 5 who incidentally not only contributed financially on McCain’s behalf and flew McCain all over on his private jet, was closer to him than any of the others involved in said scandal but resulted in one of the biggest financial scandals in american history is equivalent to what???… simply bad judgement?

    Please… is this the best you’ve got? If McCain can survive that and still be considered good enough to lead this country then unquestionably Obama can. Too bad someone thought this post was relevant enough to remove. It might make THEM look guilty but not Obama.

    Comment by rb (dd7ee9) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm

  156. It is in no way appropriate to defend Ayers or Dorne for what they did. But to castigate everyone around them, who was drawn in by their web to legitimize themselves, is a hugh waste of time.

    Just as if we were to spend time drawing out the extent of Sen. McCain’s involvement with Charles Keating, which really were illegal acts carried out by the candidate. He really did take bribes and other perks (vacations,all expense paid junkets) to stop or hinder investigation/prosecution of Keating for theft, fraud, bribery and and many other charges.

    Obama has done none of these things.

    Comment by HH (1b8363) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm

  157. Sen. Byrd (KKK-Dem-WV) still uses the n*bomb, Thinkaboutit. But he is pure of heart and intention, so all is forgiven. As is Baracky.

    I can guarantee that were we talking about McCain and Eric Rudolph, none of these Leftist would be claiming that it was no longer important.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:52 pm

  158. You should send this to Fox News and the McCain camp.

    Why are people so hypnotized by Obama? In every speech I’ve heard he doesn’t say anything. I can stand up and run through a laundry list of things that need to be fixed…the economy, the war, healthcare…no $#!& Sherlock. What I want to hear is HOW he plans on fixing these things, and not by putting the burden on Americans by raising our taxes. If it’s all on us who needs Government?

    He’s already lied to the American people by agreeing to public funding and then reneging and spending more than any candidate in history. I don’t see any of that money coming our way!

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:53 pm

  159. It is amazing. Today on CNN there was a report on how McCain’s family had slaves 150 years ago. Wow, that CNN and the media sure are sharp, but they still can’t get to the bottom of a meeting in a former terrorist’s living room just a few years ago? Give me a break.

    Comment by Dwayne (43b27c) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:54 pm

  160. Thanks for the comment, George. I have now visited the archived website referenced and I can confirm that it says what the author of this post says it says. And, following your advice, George, I have made a pdf of the page. Thanks! Obama can run, but he can’t hide, from his past.

    Comment by Concerned Citizen X (de2cd5) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:54 pm

  161. It is amazing. Today on CNN there was a report on how McCain’s family had slaves 150 years ago. Wow, that CNN and the media sure are sharp, but they still can’t get to the bottom of a meeting in a former terrorist’s living room just a few years ago? Give me a break.

    Comment by Dwayne (43b27c) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:54 pm

  162. The major factor that concerns me about Sen. Obama’s associations with people like Rev Wright and Prof Ayres is not the friendship, but these are indications of the basis of his (Obama’s) opinions and beliefs. If these are the basis His political and personal beliefs, I do not think those are the qualities I want in the leader of my country. One who activately advocates hate, distruction and discontent of my country.

    Comment by Roger Davies (49f04f) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:56 pm

  163. A revolution is coming John. The younger generation is done with all the bu–s–t. Republicans and Democrats are going to have to answer to them. We haven’t had this much involvement since the movements in the 60′s. It is refreshing to know people are willing to go in a completely new direction. Ayers shouldn’t be teaching in a university system college as a professor if he is a terrorist. Obviously the government does not agree that he is a threat either physically or mentally. John McCain was definitely involved in the Keating Five scandal and would have gotten jail time had he not been rich and been able to pay off enough people. He also is very good friends with Gordon Liddy, who served time in prison for the Watergate breakin to the Democratic National headquarters. No, that does not make him a murderer, but his actions undermind a political party and are equal to terroristic acts against our way of government. Of course, you Republicans do not care as it benefitted you. Just because a person chooses to vote democratic this year does not mean they have not listened to everything and made that decision. Some of you would vote for Barrack Obama if he were running on the Republican ticket. You don’t care what the person is like as long as he is Republican. If this were not so, you would not be voting for John McCain because he in no way represents the normal Republican ideals. I was going to vote for him in 1999 when he was running against George W, but George and his campaign called John a traitor who had fathered a black child. Most of you enlightened Republicans believed their machine and voted the BUSH as your nominee, so I never got a chance to vote for McCain. I knew BUSH was a creature from first sight of him. John McCain even got sucked up in the insanity that is the Bush administration. He lost my vote when he couldn’t say no to all the rediculous antics of the right wing neocons, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the rest. Now, you same neocons that hated McCain so feverishly are trying to shove him down the throats of those of us who paid attention. Whoever wins this elections will have years of shovelling to do to get to the light that was once the soul of this great country. I believe only one of the two running have that ability. GObama!!

    Comment by dancinfool (6a2482) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:57 pm

  164. People wake up! The biggest crooks here was the current REPUBLICIANS middle America put in office 8 yrs ago! While working in Iraq I saw massive corruption, abuse of power( Security Contractors who had this in their heads that this was pay back for 911? In which case Iraq had nothing to do with it! No weapons of mass destruction, no rebuilding when I was there(Only to roads leading to Oil pipe lines, waste of Tax payers money, over charging the US Government on projects that never happened.. We need a change in this Government NOW…. I give McCain respect but to run this country, I think not. You can’t bring ways of the 30′s into 2009, its not going to work! If Bush wasn’t spending 10 billion a month ( I’m sure its much higher than that) we wouldn’t be in this recession now( Jim Nice who made a comment further up the list) maybe you should visit Walter Reed and see young men and woman who paid a great price for this war>> Which only Tax payers are paying for!!

    Comment by Cyborg/contractor(IRAQ) (49a9e8) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:57 pm

  165. Isn’t it actually more damning if Ayers and Dohrn were the ones doing the launching?

    Comment by Manuel (4400e5) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:58 pm

  166. Sen. McCain’s involvement with Charles Keating, which really were illegal acts carried out by the candidate.

    An aggressive lie not supported out by any of the available facts.

    He really did take bribes and other perks (vacations,all expense paid junkets) to stop or hinder investigation/prosecution of Keating for theft, fraud, bribery and and many other charges.

    Ditto. Outright lie.

    Patterico – This is an exceptionally vile lot you have attracted today. Where are they coming from?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 1:58 pm

  167. If the ages were reversed and Eric Rudolph did his bombings when McCain was a child, but was now living a respectable life and was highly thought of by ‘upstanding society’ who no longer even mentioned his past, it wouldn’t matter!

    To tell you the truth, I’m still an undecided Independent, but I don’t believe Barack knew these details about this man’s past until much later, or that Rev. Wright was such a basket case unitl later either. I think that he genuinely wants to believe the good in everyone, but once he finds out still accepts them past mistakes and all. I’d love to have a ‘non-Judgemental’ friend like him, or even become one myself :)

    Comment by Thinkaboutit (207535) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:02 pm

  168. Just because you wrote that doesn’t make it so. In your mind it might have been launched there–but that is hardly proof. You may have been mistaken, or more likely, you may have spun the truth to make a stronger statement more likely to have an impact.

    Comment by Alan H (70efa8) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:04 pm

  169. John McCain was definitely involved in the Keating Five scandal and would have gotten jail time had he not been rich and been able to pay off enough people.

    Why do the Leftist absolutely insist on overtly lying?!

    Some of you would vote for Barrack Obama if he were running on the Republican ticket. You don’t care what the person is like as long as he is Republican. If this were not so, you would not be voting for John McCain because he in no way represents the normal Republican ideals.

    A lie. If Baracky was running as a Republican with demonstrated Republican ideals, I would be happy to vote for him. The rest of yours diatribe is a typical Moby rant.

    Evil middle America, eh, Cyborg. Care to substantiate any of those serious allegations you make?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:04 pm

  170. John McCain was definitely involved in the Keating Five scandal and would have gotten jail time had he not been rich and been able to pay off enough people.

    Why do the Leftist absolutely insist on overtly lying?!

    Some of you would vote for Barrack Obama if he were running on the Republican ticket. You don’t care what the person is like as long as he is Republican. If this were not so, you would not be voting for John McCain because he in no way represents the normal Republican ideals.

    A lie. If Baracky was running as a Republican with demonstrated Republican ideals, I would be happy to vote for him. The rest of yours diatribe is a typical Moby rant.

    Evil middle America, eh, Cyborg. Care to substantiate any of those serious allegations you make?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:04 pm

  171. No matter what you say about Barack Obama, I will never vote for John Mccain because of the words that came out of his own mouth: Jobs are being outsourced because people WON’T work for $50 AN HOUR and the hell with the mother, even if she has other children who might depend on her for their sole support if something (god forbid) goes wrong during a birth.
    Totally inexcusable and absolutely out of touch.

    As far as Ayers, maybe this is what you guys don’t get. In all the digging you’ve done in his butthole, all you can find is things OTHER people did or said that were wrong. Ayers was with that group when Obama was eight years old. God damn it, make some frickin sense!!! He went to the most popular black church in his area – maybe for the felowhip? Maybe because despite the pastor being off his rocker, like alot of pastors, the church is a beautiful place with good people and the foundation of a community in Christ? The pastor at my mother’s church had TWO families. And every body knew it and listened out for his pro ploygamy bias every single sermon and gossipped and laughed at them but we loved that church and my mother who thinks men should be jailed for cheating STILL GOES!!! This man gets up in th epulpit every week and talks about how all the men in the bible had multiple wives and how its natural and she still goes to that church because its bigger than him.

    All the investigating and going over his life with a fine tooth comb and this is all you have. That he smoked pot and knows a handful of shady people? If you were put under the SAME scrutiny would that be the case?

    We can’t afford eight more years of Bush or three years of Palin/Lieberman. We don’t want war with Iran or to slide further into the recession because of pro big business republican fiscal nonsense.

    Obama is BRAND NEW. He’s not an old boy crony with “experience” from messing up this country for 20 years now pretending to be an outsider. He’s got good ideas and good people behind him. He’s the personification of change and if anything happens to him, Biden is ready.

    Obama/Biden 08!!!

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:04 pm

  172. During the Vietnam war, Dorhn went to Cuba to meet with the North Vietnamese. Later, at least one member of the weather underground even traveled to Hanoi. They must have discussed ways the weather underground could help the North Vietnamese win the war. Their highly publicized “bring the war home” efforts cleary worked. They were able to do what neitehr the Japanese nor the Germans were able to do–to destabilize and impede the US war efforts. Ayers and Dorhn caused an entire nation to be lost to communism. And this is something that should be ignored, forgotten, or taken lightly??? If Bin Laden/Hitler/Stalin/McVeigh is alive and has assimilated into the community, by all means let’s invite him to tea? This is a stupid country!

    Comment by Vietnamese Guy (b6446f) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:04 pm

  173. Google Cache:
    Google Cache of the Article in Question
    I love Google.

    Comment by The SLC (987013) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:08 pm

  174. To tell you the truth, I’m still an undecided Independent, but I don’t believe Barack knew these details about this man’s past until much later, or that Rev. Wright was such a basket case unitl later either. I think that he genuinely wants to believe the good in everyone, but once he finds out still accepts them past mistakes and all. I’d love to have a ‘non-Judgemental’ friend like him, or even become one myself

    cough … cough … bullshit … cough … cough.

    If the ages were reversed and Eric Rudolph did his bombings when McCain was a child, but was now living a respectable life and was highly thought of by ‘upstanding society’ who no longer even mentioned his past, it wouldn’t matter!

    Give me a break. Look at the lies your fellow travelers are tossing around in this thread. The idea that the Left would for some reason be willing to forgive this kind of association were it a Republican is laughable.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:12 pm

  175. This strikes me as variant of a mindset remarkably similar to the airbrushed photos from Soviet, Cuban, and Nazi archives where people who the powers that be decided to no longer hold in favor or acknowledge were simply “disappeared” from the photos.

    The mindset is the same and the LAT says so. We can do bad stuff, have unacceptable associations, as long as you can’t PROVE IT.

    On a more humorous level, my 10 year old read Patterico’s post and commented that the LA Times sounds like Lucious Malfoy in the 2nd Harry Potter movie when confronted with his nefarious conduct. “Why don’t you PROVE it.” he says. Yikes.

    Comment by Gono (aec2cd) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:13 pm

  176. http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/

    Comment by lea (100f58) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:18 pm

  177. It is rather painful to see that all we have found after looking very very hard is this petty crap about some insignificant “association”.
    I pitty the fool who feels so small as to be hanging on this.

    Unfortunately for you, the country is smart enough to see through these non-issues and vote for the best person to take our country in the RIGHT direction.

    See you on November 5, 2008 for the OBAMA party.

    Comment by Sammy (03f057) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:18 pm

  178. Where was Obama when Dhorn met the North Vietnamese in Cuba? Was he there?

    What nonsense. All Mccain had to say in that debate was “no. I will not tax health insurance benefits.” and he COULDN’T do it.

    The only thing we know is we let that senile old fool in, he’s going to start another damn war with Iran. So we’ll be fighting three wars at the same time, during record deficits, in a depression with no job creation and you kool-aid by the pitcher Fascists fighting against the safety net (that we might all someday need) or any domestic spending unless it benefits big business.

    Enough, Republicans. You messed up. You had eight years to do the job and you’re fired now.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:20 pm

  179. Comment by dancinfool — 10/20/2008 @ 1:57 pm

    I am breathless in anticipation of the upcoming revolution promised by twinkletoes.
    This is going to be a revolution carried out by people who can’t even drink water from a faucet?
    I don’t think so.
    When the SHTF, these babies will be crying for their mommies to come and change their pants.

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:25 pm

  180. Comment by NYC_Chic — 10/20/2008 @ 2:20 pm

    Well, that says it all.
    Another committed revolutionary!

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:26 pm

  181. Obama has done none of these things.
    Comment by HH — 10/20/2008 @ 1:51 pm

    That’s correct HH. Instead, obama has:

    -written a book filled with anti-white, anti-Christian loathing and hatred;
    -while still in high school, looked up to and considered Frank Davis, a black 50′s communist party member and virulent anti-white racist, as a mentor;
    -accepted Dr. Kahlid al-Monsour’s help getting into college; Monsour is a USA college professor (suh-prize, suh-prize, Sar-jint Carter!) noted for his pro-muslim, anti-white, anti-American books (maybe you’re already read some of them, HH?);
    -wholeheartedly and without question or qualm let a man who tried to murder innocent American civilians, soldiers, and government workers launch his political career;
    -sat for 20 years under the teachings of a raving, black racist, lunatic “preacher” whose church motto and creed says God must strike dead white Americans;
    -counted among his friends black hate monger and racist Louis Farrakahn, going so far as to visit Pakistan with farrakahn at a time when the US forbid travel there;
    -has responded to a lawsuit seeking a valid copy of his birth certificate by seeking to have the suit DISMISSED…instead of simply PROVIDING A VALID COPY OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE;
    -has made it clear to America that he believes it’s his RIGHT to TAKE MONEY AWAY from some Americans and “spread the wealth around”…what’s next, HH, is he going to decide no one can have a second home, and take that home away and give it to someone else “more deserving” or “more needy”…or is he going to decide that no one needs to own more than 1/2 acre of land…or more than 2 cars? WHERE WILL IT STOP?
    -has admitted his campaign accepted $33,500 of illegal donations from two family members with significant ties to Hamas (the Edwan brothers), has said he returned the money, but provided no proof of such…and what’s more, the Edwan brothers admitted they made the illegal contributions over the ‘net…and EVEN THEY said their money wasn’t returned;
    -was a “community organizer” of the worst sham kind, working for the discredited ACORN…and even now his campaign has given ACORN an estimated $800,000 for them to screw the American people with.

    WHEW! Where to stop?! There’s just SO MUCH MORE to tell about what Obama has done. Unlike McCain, who’s guilty of what every other politician on both sides of the aisle are: taking money when they shouldn’t.

    I guess you’re glad to know that Obama hasn’t done anything like THAT, eh, HH?

    nobama. the anti-christ. Americana. The cure.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:27 pm

  182. Obama states one undispoutable fact: he was 8 years when Ayers involved with the Weather underground.

    Indisputable? Nonsense. No possible reading of Ayers’s bombing activities (including those in 1970, ’71, and ’72 by his own own admission) can be construed to’ve last happened when Obama was 8. Ayers was a fugitive until 1980.

    His Weathermen buddies were active and murdering people until at least 1981 (when they were convicted of the Brinks Armored Car robbery, Ayers raised their kid) . . . while Barry was at Columbia, and Ayers was just down the road at Bank Street College. Obama was about 19, and claimed to be active with the South Africa disinvestment movement, another issue near and dear to the Black Panther and SDS alliance. Not sure where he gets “8″ . . . but that really doesn’t work, now does it?

    Comment by Cecil Turner (714609) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:30 pm

  183. WHO CARES???? This news is so old. Can’t you come up with something else, like how McCain’s policies are going to help the average American and how much? What we can expect in the first few months of his presidency? How we are going to get out children out of Iraq? When will Iraq start using its own money to fund the war?, etc. That is the problem. McCain’s campaign cannot answer questions like this so they use the smoke and mirrors of Ayers, Wright, etc. I’m an independent voter and I JUST WANT SOME ANSWERS!!

    Comment by Tina (3b349c) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:34 pm

  184. “Obama is BRAND NEW. He’s not an old boy crony with “experience” from messing up this country for 20 years now pretending to be an outsider.”

    NY Chic – Brilliant. Except that he’s got shit for experience, piss poor judgement based on the people he associates with and no character when you consider he changes fundamental positions for political expediency. He’s a product of corrupt Chicago machine politics who has had ample opportunities to choose reform and has always looked the other direction.

    His association with political radicals gives ordinary Americans reason to pause. Bill Ayers, who he funded to the tune of $2 million promotes the politicization of education at the elementary school level and claims America makes him puke. The anti-assimilation initiatives sponsored by Ayers for African American youth that Obama funded with the Annenberg challenge square the circle nicely with the black liberation theology preached by Jeremiah Wright at TUCC. The triangle of Ayers, Obama and Wright make clear that Obama’s protestations that he was not clear on what Wright was preaching are complete and utter bullshit. Obama is a pathological liar about his past.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:36 pm

  185. “WHO CARES???? This news is so old.”

    Tina – If you don’t care, why are you here?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:38 pm

  186. if this is what you think is going to save mcbush, you nuts better get used to saying President Obama

    Comment by spailin (3f2f69) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:39 pm

  187. jerry lastow said:
    “I guess I am just too stupid to give a darn about Ayers and Dorhn. Ayers certainly has rehabilitated himself. He apparently is well regarded despite his past. He apparently has served on the same board with distinguished individuals including prominent Republicans.”
    ——————————————

    Hey Jerry;

    Is that BC bud yer smokin’ or some other super high content THC weed? ‘Cause if ya ain’t stoned, then ya gotta be stoopid, like ya said ya was.

    1st) Ayers is NOT REHABILITATED. He’s on film all over the ‘net saying “I DON’T REGRET” setting bombs off and “I WISH I’D DONE MORE” to further his ’cause’.

    2nd) Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, and lots of other murderers and hate mongers were “well regarded” by not only their peers, but by the masses of people they manipulated through their propaganda agendas. Saying that a scumbag like Ayers is “well regarded” is like saying Eva Braun thought well of Hitler. It’s ludicrous.

    3rd)”Distinguished individuals”? Ya gotta be kidding me. See “2nd” above.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:40 pm

  188. Some should read the book of revelation and not be so fooled. “Do your homework people”.Look up the definition of “socialism”. Are you that naive to subliminal messages and charismatic ways?He has not the country in his best interest! It’s called a hidden agenda.
    My husband and I are both combat veterans. We sure would like to know how Obama recieved a security clearance with all his links through his adult life, much less his whole life. Hmm? Must we not forget “it is the VETERAN” NOT the politician, attorney, lobbyist, etc that gave him the right to, “freedom”! Oh let’s all blame the Bush admin for all the natural disasters that cost us bilions and billions of dollars over the last several years! Let’s blame the Bush admin on the idiots that can’t budget and overspent and were so naive. Are you that naive again, that you cannot see the writing on the wall?

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:41 pm

  189. Man, if you could bottle teh stoopid from the Obamatards in this thread there would be no reason for doctors to perform lobotomies anymore. Drink these comments!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:42 pm

  190. The party of the left has always been blind to it’s grass roots wrong doing. The things I saw during the Carter run would make you sick. Strong armed would be a nice way of saying how he took Ga. Though I did not help with any of that I voted for the A-hole. Thanks to Jimmy the Weak I am now a proud GOP member and BO even makes me more so. What does it take to make left eyed people see the truth. Does this country have to return to nothing then you see. I spoke up for MLK in my youth and still have his dream of all people working playing and crying together without regard to race etc. BO is not the man that will tie us together but one who will push the country apart due to his far left leanings.
    I pray we as a nation will make it through the next 4 yrs if BO wins. Until then open your brains to truth really seek the truth not fantasy as OB would have you think. If BO wins I will the nation at its wake not party.

    Comment by Dale (04d705) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:42 pm

  191. # 173 – you hit the nail on the head with the last sentence and also that he’d start a war with Iran.

    Comment by Bruce (6c1411) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:45 pm

  192. Apparently, most of you are younger than 50, and have no clue as to what socialism is. We fought in WWII to fight socialism, which is taking away from the “haves” and giving it to the “have nots.” Another word for it is class envy.

    However, those who are the “elite” get to keep all that they have.

    I do not agree with McCain on everything – but the most important thing we DO agree on is the basis of why this country was founded – this country was founded so that everyone would have the opportunity to be the best they wanted to be.

    Life, liberty, and the

    pursuit

    of happiness.

    They did not guarantee happiness, but the

    pursuit

    of happiness.

    Barack does not even want to guarantee “life” – he wants living children of abortion to CONTINUE to be put in medical supply closets to die. The Illinois law that he stated was already in place to help those babies was ONLY for the babies deemed to be viable PRIOR TO the performance of the abortion.

    Those in the 5th, 6th months were NOT covered by that law. and they were left to die. What heartless person, other than a Hitler-loving Nazi, would leave an innocent baby to die???

    Check out his communist cousin: http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/10/06/barack-obama-raila-odinga/

    One of the comments from a Kenyan:

    I have watched the documentary of association of Raila Ondinga with Barack Obama and it is the naked truth, since i am a kenyan. Though our country is 90% Obamania, i disliked this fellow for associating with Raila Odinga. All you have is truth in that video. Raila just wants to be so close to helm of power and with Obama presidency, the security and existence of kenya as a nation together with United states will severly be compromised by these two people. Just research more on the ammount of USA tax payers money that Obama used to come and campaighn for Raila Odinga. Also look for the kind of bitter complain given by the government after his delivery of speech at the University of Nairobi Kenya.
    United states people, do not fall into the trap of “Change” that you are not aware of championed by Obama. We kenyans rejected the “change” that was being brought by Odinga. Learn from us people of America, Kim

    Another comment:

    Thank you, Julios Mosa, for trying to inform Americans about the BIG HOAX that is being perpetrated against them.
    As someone born in Ecuador with friends and relatives in Latin America, I’m terrified watching how people in the United States are being manipulated just like people in Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador to put a Marxist in power.

    The similarities between Rafael Correa’s campaign for president of Ecuador and that of Obama for U.S. president are amazing. Even the slogans (CHANGE, YES WE CAN, etc.) are the same. Correa’s campaign was part of a plan laid out by Castro at the Marxist Sao Paulo’s forum in the 90’s to spread Marxism. Correa is now a dictator working with Chávez y Islamics. It seems Odinga’s and Obama’s campaigns also part of that plan.

    When informed Ecuadorians realized the amazing similarities between candidate Correa and candidate Obama, they felt confident that Americans could not be fooled as Ecuadorians had. However, it seems many Americans are as clueless as the poorest and most ignorant people in Ecuador or Bolivia.

    Latin-American presidents-turned Marxist dictators (Chávez, Morales, Correa, etc.) also seem to have connections with Soros and the Islamics. Informed Ecuadorians were not able to convince their clueless compatriots that Correa was a fake and not the young and wonderful savior the media was portraying. They could not compete in ads with the millions Correa had (mostly from unknown sources). The CHANGE has been toward Marxism and greater poverty for all.

    Wake up, Americans! Your enemies are brainwashing you to enslave you and your children!(end)

    Yes, Wake up Americans – Obama has LESS experience than Sarah Palin, and all of his friends and allies for the last 20 years have been felons, terrorists, or people calling the USA the US of KKK…he did not sit in that church for 20 years if he didn’t BELIEVE all of that.

    Give me a break and Wake Up!

    Comment by Donna Ruland (7c8eeb) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:46 pm

  193. the lack of understanding of this society, as well as the world, among my fellow U.S. citizens is disgusting.no pres. can satisfy ALL of the people, all of the time. HOWEVER, obama is a disgrace to himself as well as his country. he is nothing but a used car salesman. your really happy when you drive off the lot,shiny and new. wash it and see what happens. the REAL comes through. am not an avid supporter of either, BUT have seen the light! McCAIN WILL NOT tell people what they want to hear. shame on him for being honest! the world is in constant motion, so must the leader of the free world be also.adapt and overcome, is whats required now. all you people that dismiss the acts of a coward, OBAMA, more than likely also approve of cheating on your spouse, screwing your buiss. associates as well as your employees. THE ME GENERATION! you people better wake up and stop pointing fingers, as you are the problem. take responsibility for the world that YOU have created. there are a few good men and women out there that REALLY want to help. ALLOW them to do what they KNOW best. stop trying to be micro managers, as you are not qualified!

    Comment by jim (3dda58) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:48 pm

  194. Something else everyone needs to know:

    Obama’s CAPITAL GAINS tax will destroy those who just lost their homes or cars due to the Dems Fannie and Freddie fiasco…

    When you sell a house, land or a car just to get out of the loan.. You have a capital gains tax just the same.

    Obama wants to ad insult to injury and tax us even more when we are suffering.

    Comment by JLMEALER (a50cf6) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:51 pm

  195. The desperation of these feces-flinging leftist trolls is hilarious. Look at them screeching: It’s NOTHING! It’s NOTHING! Quit saying it’s SOMETHING!

    And talking about Keating like they weren’t -5 years old when it happened! (We can tell they are college freshmen, because they can’t spell.)

    Look at the logic: it’s nothing, they hardly knew each other, and anyway Ayers wasn’t a terrorist, he’s was a patriot, and he never killed anyone (what was the nail bomb for Fort Dix intended to do), and all this is NOTHING! NOTHING! so 500 of us have to come here, spouting the same Keating/Libby talking points–we didn’t even know who they were until this year–in a couple of hours to make sure you get that it’s NOTHING!

    A smear! They don’t know each other, and he’s not a terrorist, so even if they did know each other its fine! but it’s a SMEAR and you’re RACIST!

    Comment by Gabriel Hanna (1b7def) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:52 pm

  196. Tina;
    Obama will “end the war” as soon as he can. He won’t win the war, he’ll just pack up US troops and leave. Then our children will be back home. Those of our children who bled, died, and lost their limbs in Iraq will have bled, died, and lost their limbs for nothing. Except that, when the United States Armed Forces leave, the Islamofascists (you remember them, right dear? the one’s who hacked off Wall St Journal reporter Danny Pearl’s head…and hacked off the heads of countless American volunteers helping to teach the Iraqi kids and build Iraqi electricity plants and…well, you remember all that mess, right dear?) will know that America doesn’t have the stomach to fight for what they believe in.

    And then our children, and you and I dear, can fight them here on our soil. In our towns, streets, and buildings.

    Next, Obama will start deciding who has too much money and who doesn’t have enough money. Then he’ll decide how much money to take from you and give to me (you won’t mind, will you dear?). After that, he’ll decide who has too much land, who has too many cars, and who has too many houses (you really don’t use that place in Jackson Hole much do you dear?); and then he’ll start taking the land, cars, houses from those who have too much and giving it to the needy.

    After that he’ll decide that America has too many Americans (white ones, dearie, you understand, no?) and not enough diversity. To ensure that America contributes to the overall goodness of the world, Obama will open up our borders to all who want to come here. You know, dearie; the Mexicans, Guatamaleans, Ecudoreans, Salvadoreans, and of course, the Muslims!

    To these poor souls Obama will give American citizenship and of course a share in the American dream, which will them be a distant memory of a different time; because by then it’ll be too God d*mned late to stop the floodgates of hell that electing a Marxist, Muslim radical, anti-white, anti-American named Barack HUSSEIN Obama will open.

    Sorry, dear. Didn’t mean to upset you. Now give me the keys to the Jackson Hole cabin, will you? And don’t forget to put my weekly check in the mail, ok dearie?

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:54 pm

  197. Try spending your time doing something worthwhile. Give me a break.

    Comment by Jenny Sneed (82486e) — 10/20/2008 @ 2:58 pm

  198. Maybe I just missed it, but in all of this, I haven’t seen anyone mention what Ayres said on 9/11. That he didn’t bomb enough and could have done more?
    Excuse me, but that was only 8 years ago, and Obama was no longer 8 years old. Apparently, he has NOT rehabilitated himself. Rehabilitated people do not wish they could do more damage, they show remorse for the damage they have caused. I know, naive point of view, but face it, he is not sorry for what he did, and has been vocal about that fact. Don’t tell me that Obama was not aware of his views, he certainly wasn’t hiding them.

    Comment by Janet (3bccc2) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:00 pm

  199. Thank you Combatcowgirl and family for your service to this nation. You are 100% correct it is those who serve this nation in harms way that are it’s Freedom Fighters not some collage no nothing with ties to domestic terror groups who make us Free. I know when you see Ayers standing on the Flag that many have spilled blood for you like me turn red with anger. The idea that BO would side with someone like him is beyond believe . Our Flag is what our country stands for. The red is for those who have died so we can wave it in Freedoms cause. To all of those who have served are serving and will serve. Thank You for being there when your Country called. May BO see the light of true service to country and if he wins seek it out.

    Comment by Dale USAF Ret. (04d705) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:01 pm

  200. While Sarah Palin chides Barack Obama for supposedly “palling around with terrorists,” the Governor of Alaska may want to take a look at John McCain’s “palling around” with convicted criminal G. Gordon Liddy.

    G. Gordon Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers.

    Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in “if necessary”; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a “gangland figure” to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap “leftist guerillas” at the 1972 Republican National Convention — a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.)

    During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain’s campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008. In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy’s radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May.

    John McCain’s appearance on The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07 includes a discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an “old friend.” During the segment, McCain praised Liddy’s “adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great,” said he was “proud” of Liddy, and said that “it’s always a pleasure for me to come on your program.”

    Additionally, in 1998, Liddy reportedly held a fundraiser at his home for McCain. Liddy was reportedly scheduled to speak at another fundraiser for McCain in 2000. The Charlotte Observer reported on January 23, 2000, that McCain’s campaign vouched for Liddy’s “character”:

    Interesting

    Comment by Leigh (900d01) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:02 pm

  201. Thank you for the history lesson on G. Gordon Liddy! It’s refreshing to know some men still have unshakeable convictions.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:07 pm

  202. gabriele, come on over, I have a gift for you, about 6 oz of c-4 and 2 lbs of nails, no problem? right? meanwhile you cut your finger on a slinky, and you run to the nearest attorney! TAKE RESPONSABILITY! it will not hurt a bit! oh yea, I have a sweet 71 vega to sell you! idiot!

    Comment by jim (3dda58) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:11 pm

  203. Obama claiming “I was only 8″ when the bombs exploded somehow makes it ok to associate with a terrorist. Its insane. Even an 8 year old should know that killing is wrong. Using the “logic” of the left, my daughter who is now 6 can start her political career in 20 years with members of Al Queda and say something clever like “I wasnt born until a year after that whole 9-11 thing.” And I am pretty sure my daughter will despise Osama Bin Laden even though she wasnt born when he performed his deeds.

    Comment by andy (ea7594) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:11 pm

  204. Let’s put Ayers to the side for a moment and talk about Obama’s wealth redistribution plan. If he gets in, is the next step reparations? With a democratic White House, Senate and Congress, who’s to stop Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Barney and those other scoundrels from really re-distributing America’s wealth? If only short-sighted Americans would stop and think for a moment. The markets can rebound. 401Ks can climb back up. But the damage from Obama’s presidency and an unbridled democratic congress, the good old USA might never recover.

    Looks like Obama wants to turn us into the land of his father – cow herders in Kenya. Watch out America. Don’t think it can’t happen. Save your heritage now.

    Comment by Jennifer James (d362d8) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:14 pm

  205. HEY! The Annenberg Challenge was founded, and headed by, Walter Annenberg, billionaire Republican and Nixon’s Ambassador to Great Britain.

    So, I guess that makes Annenberg a terrorist. Or maybe all Republican billionaires are terrorists?

    Comment by NotJoeThePlumber (784805) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:14 pm

  206. HEY! The Annenberg Challenge was founded by, and headed by, Walter Annenberg, billionaire Republican and Nixon’s Ambassador to Great Britain.

    So, I guess that makes Annenberg a terrorist. Or maybe all Republican billionaires are terrorists?

    Comment by NotJoeThePlumber (784805) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:15 pm

  207. Let’s cut the B.S. John Mc Cain has questionable ties of his own http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/05/g-gordon-liddy-john-mccai_n_100134.html
    This has not been mentioned in the news because Obama has not ran a dirty attack campaign. Everyone knows this Washington,John,Cindy,Sarah,Republicans,Democrats
    that Bill Ayers is not an issue. They are just watching to see if you take the bait and overlook the issues. Obama’s offer can not be beaten(healthcare, tax cuts for middleclass and poor) If you make under 250000 a year and you are voting for McCain then you probably have issues voting for a black man, been misinformed,or are incompetent.

    Comment by william chapman (d29e87) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:16 pm

  208. In answer to 153, I don’t want that money coming my way. not after reading thisNew York Times Editorial
    By MAUREEN DOWD
    Published: June 29, 2008

    OBAMA’S TROUBLING INTERNET FUND RAISING
    Certainly the most interesting and potentially devastating phone call I have received during this election cycle came this week from one of the Obama’s campaign internet geeks. These are the staffers who devised Obama’s internet fund raising campaign which raised in the neighborhood of $200 million so far. That is more then twice the total funds raised by any candidate in history and this was all from the internet campaign.
    What I learned from this insider was shocking but I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that when it comes to fund raising there simply are no rules that can’t be broken and no ethics that prevail.
    Obama’s internet campaign started out innocently enough with basic e-mail networking , lists saved from previous party campaigns and from supporters who visited any of the Obama campaign web sites.
    Small contributions came in from these sources and the internet campaign staff were more than pleased by the results.
    Then, about two months into the campaign the daily contribution intake multiplied. Where was it coming from? One of the web site security monitors began to notice the bulk of the contributions were clearly coming in from overseas internet service providers and at the rate and frequency of transmission it was clear these donations were “programmed” by a very sophisticated user.
    While the security people were not able to track most of the sources due to firewalls and other blocking devices put on these contributions they were able to collate the number of contributions that were coming in seemingly from individuals but the funds were from only a few credit card accounts and bank electronic funds transfers. The internet service providers (ISP) they were able to trace were from Saudi Arabia , Iran , and other Middle Eastern countries. One of the banks used for fund transfers was also located in Saudi Arabia .
    Another concentrated group of donations was traced to a Chinese ISP with a similar pattern of limited credit card charges.
    It became clear that these donations were very likely coming from sources other than American voters. This was discussed at length within the campaign and the decision was made that none of these donations violated campaign financing laws.
    It was also decided that it was not the responsibility of the campaign to audit these millions of contributions as to the actual source (specific credit card number or bank transfer account numbers) to insure that none of these internet contributors exceeded the legal maximum donation on a cumulative basis of many small donations. They also found the record keeping was not complete enough to do it anyway.
    This is a shocking revelation.
    We have been concerned about the legality of “bundling” contributions after the recent exposure of illegal bundlers but now it appears we may have an even greater problem.
    I guess we should have been somewhat suspicious when the numbers started to come out. We were told (no proof offered) that the Obama internet contributions were from $10.00 to $25.00 or so.
    If the $200,000,000 is right, and the average contribution was $15.00, that would mean over 13 million individuals made contributions? That would also be 13 million contributions would need to be processed. How did all that happen?
    I believe the Obama campaign’s internet fund raising needs a serious, in depth investigation and audit. It also appears the whole question of internet fund raising needs investigation by the legislature and perhaps new laws to insure it complies not only with the letter of these laws but the spirit as well.

    IS IT RIGHT FOR FOREIGN COUNTRIES TO HAVE AN INVESTMENT IN WHO BECOMES OUR NEXT PRESIDENT??? IF YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH THIS, PLEASE PASS IT ON.

    The fact that the NY Times allowed this to be printed is amazing in itself.

    Comment by I'mscared (6e5291) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:17 pm

  209. Hey 199: Walter Annenberg was dead by the time the money was given out. Doubt very much he would have been so easily duped as his heirs who didn’t have to work for their money.

    You don’t need to say you are Not Joe the Plumber. You don’t have enough common sense to be him.

    Comment by Jennifer James (d362d8) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:19 pm

  210. Reading the book “Obama Nation” can give insight into Obama’s radicalism. The author admits he has an agenda, as everyone does these days, so it pays to filter. However, he identifies sources to back up his contentions. The book makes a believable case that Obama is far more radical than his public personna and, as a president with a congressional majority, will endanger our freedoms.

    Comment by ed (4922b4) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:23 pm

  211. I am convinced that I’ve read some of the most idiotic posts I’ve ever seen written here.
    The Right lovers will always talk about the “liberal left”, accusing them of wanting nothing but socialism and for the goverment to pay for everything.
    The Left lovers will always talk about the “conservative right”, accusing them of wanting all government out of their lives and that only they know what is best for Americans.
    Both are a crock of crap. Not all Republicans are conservatives just as not all Democrats are liberals.
    Can anyone tell me who Ayers killed during his bombing rampage? The answer is NO ONE.
    Once a person brings up anyone they feel has a “shady” association with another person, it matters not what that “shady” person did. A sin is a sin is a sin is a sin. God doesn’t differentiate, why do we?
    No matter what any of you say, everyone here has at one point in their lives associated with someone considered “shady” or disreputable. If you disagree, you are lying. There is no way a person can exist in life without having at one time or another associated with a less than reputable person, unless you are born, live and die a hermit.
    Now, can we get the conversation back to what is important to our country, such as the economic crisis? These side arguments only delay our opportunity to grow as a country.

    Comment by Dan (1b5def) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:23 pm

  212. Leave it to a libtard to comapare Ayers a filth riddled post-modern-hippy-domestic TERRORIST with G. Gordon Liddy.
    Are ALL liberals retarded?

    Yes.

    Comment by gus (36e9a7) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:24 pm

  213. COLIN POWELL: That paragon of good judgment. He’s the one who told Bush 1 there was no need to pursue the Iraqis into Baghdad since they had been defeated. Had he finished the job, we would not be back there today. So, with all due respect to his capabilities as a solider, if he had spoken to the world with conviction about what he really believed about WMDs he could have saved us all a lot of trouble. Now he absolves his conscience by endorsing that hollow man, Barack Obama. All the freedoms Powell fought for will be wiped out in a hurry.

    Comment by Jennifer James (d362d8) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:25 pm

  214. Thank you Dale (USAF) for your service as well. Seems I cannot sleep a lot lately due to wondering if all my fallen friends and forefathers will have all died in vain for someone not that “cares for our country”, but cares for “himself” and, his “own” agenda.My war injuries from Iraq were well served and I am proud to do so. Where was Obama, did he serve? NO!! He would never, bc he is not “for our country” but only his own agendas and to allow those we certainly do not want ties to come into our country.
    I thought Robinhood was a movie?
    My we shall pray more every day and God bless America and all my other veteran comrades and God bless MCCain and Palin (which definitely has more experience than Obama-she has taken on and won for this country already, on issues that are vitally important to us right now in America)to run this country if God forbid ever need be, she is much more trustworthy than Obama.
    I wish some would do their homework on her as well as John MCCain. Then they would see the truths and then after doing their own homework on all the links to things Obama and, his so-called”non-ties”, who then would they choose? Would they still be so naive to a pretty smile and a man that his wife said in her own words, “I have never been proud to be an american until now”? WHAT people???
    I pray when you go to sleep tonight that ALL of you follow your heart and be there to help serve our country in our most time of need and, that my friends is to do what is “right” in your hearts and souls and not be fooled on election day. You CAN serve your country right now at the polls. Like John MCCain and all of us other veterans have done so.You can help save our country from a socialist that is even spoke of in the book of revelation.

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:27 pm

  215. So far Obama’s supporters in this post have expressed ageism (McCain is too old), elitism, and have told us anyone who doesn’t vote for Obama who makes less than $250,000/yr is a racist. Nice way to bring unity to the country.

    Comment by andy (ea7594) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:27 pm

  216. am not a racist, grew up in east los angeles. am not ignorant. hold an M.B.A. SELF FUNDED. did not use the G.I.bill. and you, are blind. have a great 72 pinto, interested? WAKE UP! or maybe if you put that bong down, you might be able to think clearly. afl-cio backs obama? what a joke! all you kids want is a free ride. how many of you live with your parents? after you suck them dry, you will move on to the next victim, this country!

    Comment by jim (3dda58) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:27 pm

  217. Thank you Dale (USAF) for your service as well. Seems I cannot sleep a lot lately due to wondering if all my fallen friends and forefathers will have all died in vain for someone not that “cares for our country”, but cares for “himself” and, his “own” agenda.My war injuries from Iraq were well served and I am proud to do so. Where was Obama, did he serve? NO!! He would never, bc he is not “for our country” but only his own agendas and to allow those we certainly do not want ties to come into our country.
    I thought Robinhood was a movie?
    My we shall pray more every day and God bless America and all my other veteran comrades and God bless MCCain and Palin (which definitely has more experience than Obama-she has taken on and won for this country already, on issues that are vitally important to us right now in America)to run this country if God forbid ever need be, she is much more trustworthy than Obama.
    I wish some would do their homework on her as well as John MCCain. Then they would see the truths and then after doing their own homework on all the links to things Obama and, his so-called”non-ties”, who then would they choose? Would they still be so naive to a pretty smile and a man that his wife said in her own words, “I have never been proud to be an american until now”? WHAT people???
    I pray when you go to sleep tonight that ALL of you follow your heart and be there to help serve our country in our most time of need and, that my friends is to do what is “right” in your hearts and souls and not be fooled on election day. You CAN serve your country right now at the polls. Like John MCCain and all of us other veterans have done so.You can help save our country from a socialist that is even spoke of in the book of revelation.

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:27 pm

  218. oh my god the rights conspiracy theories just keep getting more and more ridiculous.
    I align myself with those who do not participate with putrid accusations lined with fear, hate and racism.
    John McCain said it himself “He is a good man, one you do not have to be afraid of as president.”
    Now John control your feme-puppet, stop her from inciting anger and racism.
    Obama is not a goddamn terrorist and you should be ashamed of yourself for implying such a thing. Oh and NO, do not say “heh but I did not say he is a terrorist, I said he PALS around with terroristS” (note the plurality) well then the same could be said about McCain and his ties to Iran-Contra affair. So WTF is going on here other than blatant racism?

    Comment by Nicole (7b6ea4) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:28 pm

  219. Thank you Dale (USAF) for your service as well. Seems I cannot sleep a lot lately due to wondering if all my fallen friends and forefathers will have all died in vain for someone not that “cares for our country”, but cares for “himself” and, his “own” agenda.My war injuries from Iraq were well served and I am proud to do so. Where was Obama, did he serve? NO!! He would never, bc he is not “for our country” but only his own agendas and to allow those we certainly do not want ties to come into our country.
    I thought Robinhood was a movie?
    My we shall pray more every day and God bless America and all my other veteran comrades and God bless MCCain and Palin (which definitely has more experience than Obama-she has taken on and won for this country already, on issues that are vitally important to us right now in America)to run this country if God forbid ever need be, she is much more trustworthy than Obama.
    I wish some would do their homework on her as well as John MCCain. Then they would see the truths and then after doing their own homework on all the links to things Obama and, his so-called”non-ties”, who then would they choose? Would they still be so naive to a pretty smile and a man that his wife said in her own words, “I have never been proud to be an american until now”? WHAT people???
    I pray when you go to sleep tonight that ALL of you follow your heart and be there to help serve our country in our most time of need and, that my friends is to do what is “right” in your hearts and souls and not be fooled on election day. You CAN serve your country right now at the polls. Like John MCCain and all of us other veterans have done so.You can help save our country from a socialist that is even spoke of in the book of revelation.

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:28 pm

  220. Comment by Jennifer James — 10/20/2008 @ 3:19 pm

    Actually, to be accurate, Walter Annenberg died in 2002, at his home in PA.

    However, no one has introduced any evidence that he was a hands-on administrator of the Foundation that disbursed the funds to CAC.
    It is normal for these foundations to hire professional managers to do the day-to-day things, including to evaluate all requests for funds.

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:29 pm

  221. Obama is lying to us all. How did he get his education paid for? How did he get the funds to
    buy his house? The list goes on and on. I feel sorry for the younger ones as they will face huge
    tax increases to pay for the bail out should Obama
    get elected. Obama is part of the mob in Chicago,
    but the younger people who will vote don’t understand that. Read about Pendergast who paid
    for Truman’s elected term in office. Bill Ayers is a crook. As Hugh Downs said” Obama is a flake”.

    Comment by Paul Neas (18e5af) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:29 pm

  222. #195 – I agree, interesting indeed. But of course, I don’t believe that the “G. Gordon Liddy” factor will ever make news. The question is why not? By the way, is Obama the only one who has “palled around with terrorist”? Did the university pal around with terrorist when they hired Ayers? What about Richard Daly who has spoken very highly of Ayers? Is he too “palling around with terrorist?” It appears that there are different standards for different people. hmmm
    And to those who insult the comments of others… Why? Are you not capable of having a healthy discussion without ridiculing the comments and thoughts of others? Why not? But, I guess John McCain did say that the American people are “angry”.

    Comment by Delores Collins (5907f7) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:29 pm

  223. NY Chic – Brilliant.

    Except that he’s got shit for experience, piss poor judgement based on the people he associates with and no character when you consider he changes fundamental positions for political expediency.

    -Not so brilliant. He’s got what shit? how? Because he was a professor, sat on the council of foreign relations, is a lawyer and graduated all Ivy Leaugue? In other words, all the “shit” your mother would’ve wanted for you?
    Political expedience my ass. I have read all of his proposals from the first day (when I supported Hilary) and I haven’t seen that. And even if that were the case, you have to be able to attend to that SITUATION AT HAND. If you can’t keep up, you get trampled. As the facts on the ground change, you have to adapt to that. Didn’t your guy say a few weeks ago, the fundamentals of this economy are strong? He had to change that when the stock market crashed and banks started failing left and right because the facts on the ground called for new thinking.

    He’s a product of corrupt Chicago machine politics who has had ample opportunities to choose reform and has always looked the other direction.

    -Oh your ass. Who’s this? Sean Hannity? The fuck do you know about Chicago politics, You live in Chicago? I don’t. Palin’s homeboy Ted stevens is on trial for his corruption right now. Is she a product of corrupt Alaska politic.

    His association with political radicals gives ordinary Americans reason to pause.

    -Because the right wingers won’t stop talking about it and the media has to cover it to be “fair and balanced”. You don’t have shit else. McCain’s tax plans suck, his economic plans suck and the only certainty is that in his administration Lieberman will get his war with Iran. Palin is flat out phony, you betcha and she’s a disgrace for having to silence one scandal with an even worst one. She is a mother of five with a special needs baby and a pregnant high school drop out teen, who will need a strong support system to get her life back together again and she needs to be her ass at HOME. period. I’m a woman and a mother and I say that AS A WOMAN and A MOTHER. What cost glory if your children are the price?

    Bill Ayers, who he funded to the tune of $2 million promotes the politicization of education at the elementary school level and claims America makes him puke.

    -What’s Bill Ayers running for?

    The anti-assimilation initiatives sponsored by Ayers for African American youth that Obama funded with the Annenberg challenge

    -Google the Anneberg Challenge. Don’t the Annenbergs also fund Sesame Street?

    square the circle nicely with the black liberation theology preached by Jeremiah Wright at TUCC.

    -What is Wright running for? Hey, did you know that Sarah Palin owes her success to a witch doctor named Muthee who’se blessing “Come on, talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from Satan,” Muthee says as two attendants place their hands on Palin’s shoulders. “Make her way my God. Bring finances her way even for the campaign in the name of Jesus. … Use her to turn this nation the other way around.”” keeps her safe from harm. And brings finances her way?

    The triangle of Ayers, Obama and Wright make clear that Obama’s protestations that he was not clear on what Wright was preaching are complete and utter bullshit. Obama is a pathological liar about his past.

    -Obama said he didn’t agree with Pastor Wright. He found the fellowship and the community in Christ to be bigger than that one man and that’s not the first time I’ve heard of that and it won’t be the last.

    Another thing, you know what struck me about the third debate? Every time Obama clarified to Mccain’s face the truth about something they had misrepresented, McCain made faces and muttered but he didn’t SAY SHIT!!!!

    You people need to stop. You get your very thoughts from Fascists who want to destroy the constitution, enrich big business at your expense and make war without end for sheer blood lust. Just like every other cult, you’re thought that the reason the people don’t see your “truth” is because they are brainwashed, in this case “by the Liberal Media”. A kool aid by the pitcher Useful Idiot on C-Span said National Geographic was liberal for crying out loud!

    No matter how many times something is proven false or true, as long as Bill, Sean, Rush or Michael “Little Weiner” Savage says the opposite, you can’t ever see it. Think for yourselves and of yourselves. McCain believes the middle class make less than 5 million a year. How is he going to help this nation get out of this economic crisis if he is that out of touch?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:30 pm

  224. #195 – I agree, interesting indeed. But of course, I don’t believe that the “G. Gordon Liddy” factor will ever make news. The question is why not? By the way, is Obama the only one who has “palled around with terrorist”? Did the university pal around with terrorist when they hired Ayers? What about Richard Daly who has spoken very highly of Ayers? Is he too “palling around with terrorist?” It appears that there are different standards for different people. hmmm
    And to those who insult the comments of others… Why? Are you not capable of having a healthy discussion; and sometimes even disagree, without ridiculing the comments and thoughts of others? Why not? But, I guess John McCain did say that the American people are “angry”.

    Comment by Delores Collins (5907f7) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:31 pm

  225. And to the the racist Jennifer James: Obama’s dad was not a cow herder. He was a scholarship econ student at the University of Hawaii. He returned to Kenya and worked as an economist for the Kenyan government.

    There’s nothing wrong with being a cowherder. But you are a shameless racist who likes to paint an entire nation with one brush.

    Comment by NotJoeThePlumber (784805) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:32 pm

  226. You guys are paranoid. Wealth distribution is only for the the 5% of the wealthy that earned billions and millions of dollars. They need to give back some to the country which they earned their riches. This in turn will be use for goverment services. And what about the 95% of working class? They deserve something back at least for the hard work.

    Comment by poleen (6b577c) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:34 pm

  227. #202

    By MAUREEN DOWD
    Published: June 29, 2008
    OBAMA’S TROUBLING INTERNET FUND RAISING

    Link?
    Dowd’s June 29, 2008 NYT column is on the Unity, N.H. election event of the previous Friday.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:35 pm

  228. Well they wouldn’t want any ACCURATE “inconvenient truths” on the loose out there!

    Comment by dawneyr (e3f198) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:36 pm

  229. There are so many folk that personally know reformed criminals or someone who has skeletons in their closet. Just because you know them, doesn’t mean that you would trust them with important decisions in your life. There are even folk without scarred pasts that I wouldn’t trust with my important information or decisions. Just because someone “associates” with a person, doesn’t mean they agree with that persons past. Even if there was a luncheon at Ayers’ house…SO?!? The man hasn’t bombed anything in years and he is a respected professor! Seems the president of the university thought enough of Ayers to hire him to teach our children. Leave Ayers alone and if all you have is petty garbage on Obama, leave him alone too. McGrumpy/Pain can’t even run a decent election because of nitpicking. The only ones being moved by this information are the folks who have already pledged their support for McPain. To everyone else, it appears to be a desperate attempt, by a grumpy old man, to pick up percentage points.

    Comment by Anna (07ac7d) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:36 pm

  230. In reply to Mr. Chapman, I suggest that Obama’s progra offerings seems so apetising to many, because they have been perfected over time, by tial an error, against the winds of public opinion. He has modified his original posi
    tions on health care, taxation, and his Iraq withdrawal strategy to attract votes. I find his proposal to raise taxes and add more prgrams vexing, in our current economy. We can only give so much in taxes, before it becomes servitude.

    Comment by ed grund (4922b4) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:38 pm

  231. Comment by NYC_Chic — 10/20/2008 @ 3:30 pm

    FYI, Gov. Palin is not associated politically with Sen Stevens.
    Sen Stevens was associated with Gov Murkowski, who was defeated by Sarah Palin in the GOP Primary election for Governor.
    Ted Stevens represents all that Sarah Palin ran against.
    Your grasp on reality is very tenuous, isn’t it.
    Put down the Bong, step back, and call for professional help.

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:40 pm

  232. Its interesting that one’s associations is evidence of one’s judgement….what about vacationing with someone on a regular basis who cost the taxpayers $3 Billion or calling them a “personal friend” as in McCain/Keating….I know McCain dumped Keating as soon as he was in trouble. Obama has disavowed Ayer’s views as well–but that doesn’t matter or count?

    The “liberal media” hasn’t pounded this out or U.S. Council for World Freedom (Iran-Contra issues) McCain connection…

    Comment by Wow (507bed) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:40 pm

  233. #202
    Snopes debunks that “Dowd column” as “false.”

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:40 pm

  234. Exactly combatCowgirl:
    We sure would like to know how Obama recieved a security clearance with all his links through his adult life, much less his whole life. Hmm?

    Exactly! You don’t think the Secret Service, CIA, FBI and others we fund to the tune of TRILLIONS has checked him out? No? In your view, its so easy to be President that anyone regardless of character can run for that office? Do you think that because of Bush?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:42 pm

  235. Sorry for your injuries, combatcowgirl, but if you think you have the right to dictate to civilians who to vote for because you were in the service and injured, then you’ve overstepped your rightful role.

    Comment by Jim (87e69d) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:42 pm

  236. but a screen shot like that doesn’t prove much. Easily faked.

    Of all the moonbat posts today, this one strikes me as the most hilarious – when they’ve got nothing else, they resort to obfuscations, excuses – and failing that, channel Mulder.

    THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

    Comment by Dmac (f11dda) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:46 pm

  237. In response to Janet who said:
    “Maybe I just missed it, but in all of this, I haven’t seen anyone mention what Ayres said on 9/11. That he didn’t bomb enough and could have done more?
    Excuse me, but that was only 8 years ago, and Obama was no longer 8 years old. Apparently, he has NOT rehabilitated himself. Rehabilitated people do not wish they could do more damage, they show remorse for the damage they have caused. I know, naive point of view, but face it, he is not sorry for what he did, and has been vocal about that fact. Don’t tell me that Obama was not aware of his views, he certainly wasn’t hiding them.”

    That comment was taken out of context. He did say that he feels he did not do enough, but to suggest that comment had anything to do with 9/11 is simply false. That comment went to post 11 hours before the attacks on the WTC. That particular comment’s force is a whole lot less emotional without the 9/11 tie. Also, 2 members of the Weathered Underground were pardoned under Bill Clinton. Now i know you can say “damn democrats must hate America” But maybe, just maybe, The Weathered Underground were fighting for a just cause.

    Comment by Nicole (7b6ea4) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:50 pm

  238. The reason more differing viewpoints are on this blog today is probably because it had a link posted under an article on Yahoo News.

    JD… you are a prideful one, aren’t you?

    Continually correcting spelling/keystroke errors on blog posts is a sure sign of someone who, shall we say… doesn’t “work and play well with others” You must have been a real cutie in elementary school.
    By the way — though I imagine you were merely trying to denigrate others and be oh so cute — the word is “mendacious”… not “mendoucheous”, which isn’t even phonetically correct.

    You should be very familiar with the meaning — telling lies habitually, dishonest… etc.

    Comment by Donna Freds (7df389) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:50 pm

  239. Yes, Wake up Americans – Obama has LESS experience than Sarah Palin, and all of his friends and allies for the last 20 years have been felons, terrorists, or people calling the USA the US of KKK…he did not sit in that church for 20 years if he didn’t BELIEVE all of that.

    -All of his friends? All of them? And allies too? That sucks. What if he met like a really nice person and they had the same interests and lived in the same community and they both were big into World of Warcraft? No?

    Not unless he had terrorists bona fides and G. Gordon Liddy could vouch for him?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:50 pm

  240. Serious question: WHY hasn’t Ayers been imprisoned?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:52 pm

  241. How amazing that so many people are so naive to what the definiton of, “socialism” and, also of Obamas economical plans! HAHA-you would not see a darn thing to help, but only hurt this economy for many years under the Obama plan. As well, you little mamas out there (we are grandparents of 4 girls-2 teens) and parents of 3, as well we (husband and I both combat veterans) to know the truth behind the reasons we went to “the main haven of terorism”=IRAQ-bc it was NEEDED!!Go ahead Obama “open the door to air and sea for all the terrorists to come abroad our country easier”! Some things Americans will never know that exist there and many other places that cannot be disclosed that is happening and has happened because it would jeopardize our country more so on the war on terrorism(as Obama will never know bc he never served).Where did he even get a confidential ssecurity clearance, “the cracker jack box”?Get real people and I am certianly not a racist.
    Obviously a lot of you have never served this country and or know how to read between the lines and do your homework. Obamas plan has NOTHING to help the crisis we are in now.MCCains DOES!!

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:54 pm

  242. I am amazed at how blind the american people can be. There is so much linking Obama with Ayers, which isn’t the only worry, yet people let him sweep it under the table.

    Obama has been linked to the Black Panthers, ACORN, and someone mentioned in the news who is Pakistanian. How about Rev. Wright. You can’t tell me that after attending that church for 20 yrs and having Wright as the minister preaching on and on over the years injecting hatred towards the white race etc didn’t rub off. Only after Wright got into the spot light and his remarks became too damaging did Obama denounce the church. Otherwise he would still be there. He got his political pull from his associates which tells me he was using whoever and whatever means he could to go up the ladder. Shady beginnings. Dangerous?

    Question: Where did Obama get the money to go to college? Funny how he went to Harvard after a trip overseas to visit a Pakistanian friend. If he had to take out student loans like everyone else did then how could he afford to buy a million dollar home? I don’t know about you but NOBODY fresh out of college and just getting a career started could move into a million dollar home. It just happens that his neighbor is Ayers? Come on now!

    Here is the scary thing. If someone wanted to plant a cell here in the US to do damage, how far in advance do you think they would plan and prepare for this? I am not saying that Obama is a cell but what better way to get to us than put someone in the White House? People need to wake up! Look at what is there, and think for yourselvs.

    Also what gets me is that all this screaming about rasim. If you say one word against Obama or question him you are being viewed a racist. They have been screaming racial throughout the campain. If McCain had friends and associations like Obama’s the press and people would crucify him. It is funny how when the democrats are saying bad things about McCain nothing about racism is brought up.

    I want a president who will lead. I want one who will stand tall and place his hand over his heart during the star spangled banner. One who will place a hand over their heart during the pledge of allegence. I want someone with out a shady past. I want some one who is honest and is willing to clean up the corruption in the white house!

    We are headed for a socialistic govt. with Obama. Wake up people! If you think that is ok then go live in China, Russia, or somewhere that is socialistic. I want my freedom!

    Poor Joe the plumber is going through heck now because he spoke up. Now the democrats are going after him viciously! Wanting his tax records, come on now. That is none of their business. It is like you can’t ask questions and you can’t make comments with out being view racist, or having the campaign flunkies come after you. Let Joe be someone to admire…at least he speaks up and has a mind of his own! He isn’t persuaded by Hollywood and movie stars….I am sorry but I can’t in good conscience be persuaded to vote for a president just because Opra, or someone in Hollywood endorses them. If Obama wasn’t black Opra wouldn’t of even endorsed him.

    I am not saying any of this because Obama is black either. If McCain was black I would still vote for him. I just feel like Obama is a dangerous man. Wake UP!

    Comment by pbwells (aa15ae) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:56 pm

  243. Guilt by association is a fallacy. In this case, the McCain campaign and those who cling to this story happily ignore a laundry list of pertinent facts. The time element is at the top of the list. They assume that “once guilty you are forever a bad person” which is wholey un-Christian and implies a level of cruelty that these people should be ashamed of. Others….when Obama met Ayers, he was/is a highly regarded university professor. I could go on. We could look at the other side – Palin’s associations with the Alaskan secessionists, McCain’s early career Keating debacle, etc., etc. Bottom line, the only people who care about all of this are those who have decided to live in the gutter of fear and hate mongering. And for some reason,they can’t see the inherent fallacy of that.

    Comment by jdo (c8ce43) — 10/20/2008 @ 3:59 pm

  244. FYI, Gov. Palin is not associated politically with Sen Stevens.

    -Wait, aren’t they both Republicans? Didn’t he endorse her in glowingterms in her run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTX-oJUCaU

    And didn’t Sarah Palin work closely with Senator Stevens to request more earmarks than any other state in the country this year.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I0HgJDdZdk

    Sen Stevens was associated with Gov Murkowski, who was defeated by Sarah Palin in the GOP Primary election for Governor.
    -And with Sarah Palin, who dissed him when he was indicted but he was there for her whan she was almost RECALLED as mayor of wasilla (oh Liberal media where art thou?): http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/513745.html

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:00 pm

  245. Both candidates have ‘associations’ with misguided people. Obama with Ayers, Odinga, etc., and McCain with the Keating 5, Liddy, etc. Don’t forget Palin’s association with Vogler and the AIP. SO WHAT?!!! Get over it people and vote on the issues and who best represents your interests.

    This is obviously a GOP-favored sounding board with a lot of anti-Obama sentiments. It’s sickening that some of you are so clouded by your hatred and clearly influenced by everything you read. Just ask yourself a couple of questions and look at the facts of the state of the US. Are you in a better position than you were 8 years ago? Has the state of our economy increased or decreased over the last 8 years? Has the number of US world allies who respected us increased or decreased over the last 8 years? As stated in another comment, the Repubs screwed up royally!

    Now ask yourself questions about the future: If something happens to McCain, do you really want Palin as president? Do you really want McCain to represent us in the foreign diplomatic arena? Do you honestly think he gives a crap about the middle class when his proposed tax policy gives the highest ($249,000+) cut to those making over $1.5M a year, and the lowest to the lower and middle classes? Whether you want to admit it or not, he has voted with Bush 90% of the time and his proposed policies are more in-line with Bush’s than not.

    McCain is a crotchety old man whose temper has been well documented. His behavior is erratic and his judgement is poor. Making matters worse is his impulsiveness. He can’t even manage his own campaign which is a clear indication of lack of leadership and management skills. He has brought out more hatred and violence among GOP supporters than I’ve ever seen. I believe he would have this country in WWIII before you can say ‘joe 6pack’.

    Country first? Yeah right. One more question: If Obama were white, would all of this make a difference?

    Comment by Maureen (2bd604) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:01 pm

  246. Amen Maureen.

    Comment by Nicole (7b6ea4) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:08 pm

  247. Let me see if I get this all straight. Obama has been hiding something all these years, despite the fact he is basing his campaign theme largely on who he is. He has written two books disclosing everything. He has shown himself to be a tremendous political talent and superior candidate.

    So now you find some old blog entry, from some anti-Obama person, who says that Bill and Bernadine “launched him” although it never says for what or in what way. And somehow this means someone is hiding something.

    And then we have all the folks ready to blame Obama’s success on anything but the Republicans’ lack of leadership, an anything but McCain’s campaign (ok there are a few out there complaining about McCain’s campaign).

    And of course all the people who are not getting the memo about this year’s election – it is not about fear, it is not about negativity, it is not about name calling or characterizing the opponent as having some kind of “secret” past. It is about hope, and a positive future for our country. Sorry about that – right now it is looking like the good guys are winning in the end.

    Comment by Andy2 (a89f24) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:09 pm

  248. PBwells: Thank God that even though Obama got past the NSA, Secret Service, CIA, FBI, Pentagon, TIA, and CFR, you were able to put all the dots together. Thank God!
    How many Harvard educated lawyers can afford million dollar homes? How many people in million dollar homes live near, within walking distance even, just a short jog from people with checkered pasts? How many? Huh?
    That’s what I (and you) thought!!!!
    You are so right. Damn that Obama.

    And hurry man, my cat’s been in that in that tree twenty whole minutes!

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:11 pm

  249. oh pbwells, where do i start?

    I take it you did not watch the last Presidential Debate. Where Obama adressed and brought to light how ridiculous each of those claims actually are. I suggest you start there, and then do some research. Then spread TRUTH not lies.

    Comment by Nicole (7b6ea4) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:13 pm

  250. Ya know what people, Ya want a president without the right to even “salute our American flag”? That’s right,It is something us VETERANS do! Not civilians. He has not the right to be saluted or to salute the U.S. flag. You must have served your country in the Armed forces and earned that right.
    Yes we fellow veterans think it’s nice to see civilians do it, however, “ya must EARN the right” to be properly saluted or salute our flag.
    No I did not dictate to anyone to go to the polls and do anyhting but simply stated the truths that you can help our country by serving in the time of need and to do your homework on EVERYTHING before you vote. Then you will have more peace at heart when you lay down at night to go to bed and as for OBAMAS security clearance,this is something being questioned by many veterans as well as others.

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:15 pm

  251. NYC Chic – Obama has a security clearance by virtue of his elected position. He would not be able to get one on his own.

    Obama is the least qualified candidate for President in the history of the United States. Given hia admitted lack of experience he himself suggests we look to his judgement, which I described in the comment with which you took exception. I am from Chicago and get a first hand look at the corruption here, from the state government on down, thank you very much. Tichard Daley consorts with all sorts of criminals and Patrick Fitzgerald is dying to nail his ass. Obama is a product of that backscratching machine. His associations with ACORN, the New Party, Rezko, Khalidi, Mansour, Wright, Pfleger, Meeks, Ayers and various slimeball slumlords make him unfit to be President. His radical left ideology on education, wealth distribution, trade, labor, foreign policy and other topics make him a danger to the country. The responsible press will not report honestly on Barack Obama and Obama will not tell the truth about his past. You are incurious yourself about that past, finding it a distraction. What are you worried that you will find? Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber have been vetted more thoroughly than Barack Obama.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:15 pm

  252. And do you know why I would NEVER run for anything? Because I shoplifted when I was little, smoked weed, told lies, had fights, crazy friends, bad friends and broke curfew EVERY night when i was 17. As an adult, my resume could win the Newberry medal and one of my best friends is a Venezuelan who supports Chavez.
    I know that I would get crucified if I tried to run for county dog catcher even so ijust blog anonymously at home and leave to politics to people with impeccable character, like barack Obama.

    Joe the Plumber HAD to know people would ask question when McCain said his name 21 times. He was pulled into the campaign by Mccain and he shouldn’t have lied. His ass should have paid his taxes and had a license and really should have been trying to buy that business. Period.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:16 pm

  253. a different google cache, this one from 10/16

    Comment by dna (7bb7f7) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:18 pm

  254. “He has written two books disclosing everything.”

    Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!111!!1!eleventy!!!1!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:20 pm

  255. Maureen – You and your fellow travelers are the only ones that seem to give a shit about what race Baracky is.

    Witness …

    Obama is not a goddamn terrorist and you should be ashamed of yourself for implying such a thing. Oh and NO, do not say “heh but I did not say he is a terrorist, I said he PALS around with terroristS” (note the plurality) well then the same could be said about McCain and his ties to Iran-Contra affair. So WTF is going on here other than blatant racism?

    Ayers and his wife qualify as domestic terrorists, do they not?

    Delores – Generally ridicule is reserved for the brain-poundingly stooopid comments.

    You people need to stop. You get your very thoughts from Fascists who want to destroy the constitution, enrich big business at your expense and make war without end for sheer blood lust. Just like every other cult, you’re thought that the reason the people don’t see your “truth” is because they are brainwashed, in this case “by the Liberal Media”. A kool aid by the pitcher Useful Idiot on C-Span said National Geographic was liberal for crying out loud!

    I love it when our intellectual superiors spout out this kind of drivel.

    #228 – Can you show where he has either needed a security clearance, or received one?

    That comment was taken out of context. He did say that he feels he did not do enough, but to suggest that comment had anything to do with 9/11 is simply false.

    Only the Leftists bring up 9/11 in an effort to change the subject in re. this quote. Maybe he meant he did not bomb enough. He refused to rule that out when questioned directly.

    Donna Freds is clearly amongst the mendoucheous.

    NYC @ #234 – If you do not know the simple answer to that question, given your ignorance, you should probably refrain from speaking towards the subject.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:21 pm

  256. So, only veterans have the right to salute the American flag, combatcowgirl? I don’t think so.

    Try telling that to Joe the Plumber’s friends at the Cleveland Cowboys game next Sunday.

    Comment by Jim (87e69d) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:21 pm

  257. Combat Cowgirl. Enough already. My sister is in Ft Doha right now and my brother has done two tours in Afghanistan and was deployed to Iraq 6/08. They are not saints. They are people, just like the people they serve with. Enough already. And your heroic service should be its own reward, you don’t own “patriotism” because of it and you have no right to make all the leaps in logic as to what you’re owed that you are making.

    i love my country. I went to college after high school. I love my country and I don’t give a damn what any body else did after high school, they can’t tell me I don’t. So stfu. I love my country enough to know john Mccain and his 20 hours of combat IS NOT the best choice for its future and as an American, that’s my inalienable RIGHT. Okay?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:23 pm

  258. Good Allah. These drive-bys are forcing the collective IQ to plummet.

    A couple people have asserted that Baracky has a security clearance. Is that the case?

    daleyrocks – The 2 books disclosing everything was snort inducing.

    It is Joe the Plumber’s fault that he had the audacity to ask a question of Teh One. He should have known that his life would be completely fu*ked as soon as he did so. The whole tolerant Left in action …

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:26 pm

  259. Maureen-sounds like you’re speaking about Obama!! Haha. Listen to your non-experienced self please?
    MCCain is the ONLY running mate that actually laid down his life and put it on the line to give you the right to even vote, as well he spent many years longer than he could have in a pow camp, just so some of his fellow comrades(to include different races) could go home while he was tortured for many more gruelling years for this country. Shame on you! MCCain has been in politics and has more experience than Obama could ever dream of haiving. He is also bipartisan and has ALWAYS put our country 1st.
    While Obama was out running his campaign and we were in a NATIONAL crisis, MCCain was at the white house and he was being damned by Obama for serving our country in time of need! What does that tell you? Exactly what I said earlier, OBAMA is for “HIMSLEF” AND HIS OWN AGENDAS,NOT OUR COUNTRY!

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:26 pm

  260. JD When i said that quote was taken out of context, it certainly was. There is no arguing that fact.
    And i still stand by my quote.

    Obama is not a goddamn terrorist and you should be ashamed of yourself for implying such a thing. Oh and NO, do not say “heh but I did not say he is a terrorist, I said he PALS around with terroristS” (note the plurality) well then the same could be said about McCain and his ties to Iran-Contra affair. So WTF is going on here other than blatant racism?

    Comment by Nicole (7b6ea4) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:27 pm

  261. “Joe the Plumber HAD to know people would ask question when McCain said his name 21 times.”

    NYC Chic – Absolutely. So on Monday when Obama stops at his house, not knowing that McCain was going to use his name in the debate on Wednesday, he was supposed to think ahead to Thursday when the Obamamedia and goon squads were going to rip his life apart. It all makes sense now. Joe needed to predict the future before asking Obama a damn question.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:27 pm

  262. Ayers was never convicted of anything, is now a professor at the U. of Illinois, and was “Chicagoan of the year” a few years ago.
    Charles Keating who was a major campign donor to McCain in the ninetees, was sent to prison for looting Lincoln Savings in the nineties. The US Senate found McCain exercised “poor judgement” in lobbying against regulation on Keating’s behalf.

    Comment by Art Goldberg (649a7e) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:27 pm

  263. john Mccain and his 20 hours of combat

    Care to substantiate this assertion?

    The sheer volume of opinion stated as fact, unsupported assertion, and outright lies on this one thread is jaw-dropping.

    For those that wail about how all of this is nothing, they sure are going to pretty remarkable lengths to sell that narrative.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:28 pm

  264. So WTF is going on here other than blatant racism?

    Comment by Nicole — 10/20/2008 @ 4:27 pm

    Nicole – You tell us. That is the card you are playing. Why are you playing the race card?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:29 pm

  265. NY CHIC-20 HRS OF COMBAT? MCCAIN? GROW UP PLEASE!! You obviously do not have a clue!
    Hats off to all our fellow veterans that serve served and are serving and may God not lalow them to die in vain after we’ve fought a long hard battle in 1 of the “main havens” of terorism=IRAQ.

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:31 pm

  266. Just wondering but why is the US death toll in Iraq 4182 in 05? Isnt that were it is about now?

    Comment by Chris (8544f2) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:34 pm

  267. I am a survivor of domestic terrorism. I was a block from the Oklahoma City bombing.

    When I went to the streets to walk out of OKC, I heard wailing and crying from a group of women. The sounds will haunt me for an eternity.

    You must know that before the bombing, I tried four times to have my son placed in the daycare of the bombed building. My calls went unanswered. I thank God everyday for my son who is now 15 years old.He would have been in the building that day.

    I have an anguish in my heart that I will carry forever. It is all due to McVeigh’s rein of terror. No different than the rein of terror
    masterminded by Ayers.

    No Way, No Shape, No How can we excuse Obama for his associations with Ayers. At 15, my son knows the anguish of his Mothers heart. He would never lower his moral standards and excuse or associate with a murderer or terrorist.

    We need to support McCain who has served his country with honor!

    Comment by Karyn (bd5df3) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:36 pm

  268. OUCH!! @ NYC_Chic! ROFL N

    Comment by Anna (07ac7d) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:38 pm

  269. NY chic;

    Thank you for your post! It proves that you are neither “chic” nor reflective enough to be able to discern fact from fiction. Sadly, it’s legions like you who, being mesmerized by the hokus pokus promises for a “better life”, have and will continue fall for these lies; all the while bringing America lower and lower, until she grovels in the dirt, wrestling with the other pigs of the world, getting dirty and never receiving what your Marxist messiah promises.

    Let’s look at two of the lies you yourself have fallen for and are promoting.

    LIE #1:
    “Obama…found the fellowship and the community in Christ…”

    Truths in response:

    -A true Christian has a ‘conversion experience’, wherein he or she accepts Jesus Christ’s message of (a)the sinful state of man, (b)the worthiness of the Lamb of God as a sacrificial offering for the sins of man, (c)Jesus’ offer of eternal life for them that “hear with their heart and confess with their tongue that Jesus is Lord”

    -Obama has had plenty of opportunity during interviews to confess Jesus Christ as his Savior and concur with the Bible, yet he has refused to do so and said instead “I don’t presume to know what happens after one dies”, and that his “personal views” may not “intersect” with traditional Christian views

    -A true Christian does not endorse murder of the unborn;

    -A true Christian does not endorse homosexual relations, let alone homosexual marriage, not now or ever, period; anyone who says homosexuality is okay or not a sin is blind in the eyes of their understanding and in their heart of hearts;

    -A true Christian does not attend a church whose written creed is “destruction of the white race”, see here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/01/obamas-church-founded-on-radical-creed/

    -And a true Christian DOES NOT STAY 20 YEARS at a church that preaches the antithesis of Biblical theology;

    -’pastor Wright’ is a preacher of hatred of the white race; he is not a preacher of the “good news” (i.e. Gospel) of Jesus;

    -Obama is no more a “Christian” than the Dali Lama or Kim Jung Il.

    LIE #2:
    “You get your very thoughts from Fascists who want to destroy the constitution”

    -You VERY OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CONSTITUTION MEANS!

    -Do you know the difference between a Democracy, Theocracy, and Republic? I would bet a years wages the answer is NO!

    -The Constitution of the United States of America establishes a “Constitutional Republic”; NOT A DEMOCRACY;

    -A democracy is “majority rule”, this sounds good until you understand that majority rule is the same as “mob mentality”…what if the majority ruled it’s okay for mature men to have anal intercourse with boys as young as 6 years old?…what if the majority ruled it’s okay to deny national health care services to everyone over 70 years old…what if the majority ruled it’s okay for the government to take away land from everyone that owned more than 1 acre…on and on it goes…this is why a strict democracy is no good for anyone except the SOB’s running the show;

    -A “constitutional Republic” is a government by rules…those rules are adopted by a majority vote after much public discussion and amendments…the rules are absolute, but there are rules in place to change the rules…this in a nutshell is what the Constitution of the United States of America is…it’s not the BEST form of government…only in Heaven where God rules will there be perfect government…BUT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS THE BEST DAMNED GOVERNMENT ON THE PLANET…THIS IS WHY ALL THE OTHER PEOPLES OF THE WORLD WANT TO COME HERE…BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER PEOPLES OF THE WORLD LIVE IN EITHER A HARD SOCIALIST STATE (Russian, China) or a dictatorship (Myanmar, N. Korea) or a Theocracy (India)

    -Obama wants to supplant a Constitutional Republic with (as yet) a “soft socialism” doctrine…in this he will appoint a ruling class to decide how much money everyone should have and then he’ll pass “laws” (that will be enforced by henchmen) to take money away from you and give it to me…and “laws” to decide how much land, how many houses, how many cars you should have and then take away all the “extra, unneeded” land, cars, houses from you and give them to me.

    -Socialism means the ruling class (i.e. “elite”) decide how much money, land, property, possessions you “need” (translation: “how much money, land, property, etc they want you to have or not have”) and then pass “laws” to make sure you don’t have more of these things than they say you can have….THIS IS WHAT OBAMA HAS BEEN TRAINING FOR ALL HIS LIFE AT THE FEET AND TEACHINGS OF MARXISM, ANTI-WHITE, ANTI-CONSTITUTIONALIST TERRORISTS….socialism is the “redistribution of wealth”…or as OBAMA TOLD JOE THE PLUMBER…”SPREADING THE WEALTH AROUND”;

    -A Constitutional Republic is based on CREATION OF WEALTH…allowing anyone who wants to, to become a millionaire from starting their own business, or getting a degree, or whatever else they want to do to make their way in life…this is VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE SOCIALIST VIEW OF “SPREADING THE WEALTH AROUND”;

    A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE THAT SAYS “I CAN’T MAKE MY OWN WAY IN THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY, AMERICA (even though almost EVERY FUCKING IMMIGRANT who comes to America starts their own business and becomes FINANCIALLY SUCCESSFUL….which is why SO MANY AROUND THE WORLD WANT TO COME TO AMERICA)….SO I WANT THE GOVT TO TAKE CARE OF ME BY TAKING MONEY AND LAND AND POSSESSIONS AWAY FROM THOSE WHO WORKED HARD TO GET THEM…AND GIVE SOME OF THEM TO ME…AND IN RETURN I’LL GIVE UP ALL OF THE FREEDOMS GUARANTEED ME IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS, THE CONSTITUTION, AND ALL THE AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION…..I JUST WANT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF, FROM THE TIME I’M BORN TILL THE TIME I DIE.

    That….NY chic…..in a nutshell is the difference between the likes of you and real Americans like the rest of us. I bet the NYPD and NYFD would be ashamed to know that you align yourself in any way with “NY”.

    , proving that you and all like you are the disease ridden

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:38 pm

  270. These guys are beating around the ‘Bush’ and are tyring to bring issues that are irrelvant. One can always cook up stories and all that nuissance to divert attentions from the real problems facing USA and the world.Please get to the real thing and don’t run after dumbs like Sarah who has foreign plicy experience living near the border of Russia! Wake up!

    Comment by Masud (d66ece) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:39 pm

  271. Who the hell cares! When are we supposed to hear one man’s plans versus another man’s plans. Why hasn’t the Bush administration kidnapped Ayers and hold him as an enemy combatant?

    Comment by Harold (3e1632) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:39 pm

  272. Obama is not a goddamn terrorist and you should be ashamed of yourself for implying such a thing

    I did nothing of the sort. That you make that jump in illogic says much about you. I, and many others, simply note that he knowingly chose to associate with a domestic terrorist.

    JD When i said that quote was taken out of context, it certainly was. There is no arguing that fact.

    Nicole. I argue that assertion. I pointed out that by his own words, any reasonable person could surmise that Ayers thought that they did not go far enough, since those are his own words. He did not specify if he was referring to the violent or non-violent actions, and when asked specifically about further bombings, indicates that he could not rule that out. That you choose to ignore same is telling. We have had this discussion, at length, with trolls far better than yourself, and their arguments were found to be wanting, as is yours.

    Nice of you to play the racist card. You saved me the effort.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:39 pm

  273. Just as if we were to spend time drawing out the extent of Sen. McCain’s involvement with Charles Keating, which really were illegal acts carried out by the candidate. He really did take bribes and other perks (vacations,all expense paid junkets) to stop or hinder investigation/prosecution of Keating for theft, fraud, bribery and and many other charges.

    Obama has done none of these things.

    Comment by HH

    I don’t know if these people are stupid or clueless or are they just mindlessly repeating talking points from liars. What is it , HH ?

    Are you this stupid ? Are you just a robot programmed in Axelrod’s office to spout lies ?

    These are lies ! And Obama is complaining about an “ugly” campaign. Maybe he should follow his robots around for a day.

    Comment by Mike K (1ac1c7) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:45 pm

  274. Sox Girl

    Ummmmm!!! He has spent more because he had earned/received more – duh!!!! Common knowledge – the more you make the more you spend. Didn’t you learn that years ago!!!!

    Oh my gosh is this all you have on Barack Obama? Let us get real – guilt by association or guilt by actual act. Which one is worst? Evidently you all don’t know, but I hope you all figure it out some time soon.

    Comment by Selethia (96dff7) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:45 pm

  275. Hey NYC_chic;

    You piece of shit! You fucking anti-American asshole! How DARE YOU TALK TO Combat Cowgirl in your pussy mother fuckin’ language!

    You fucking coward, hiding behind a keyboard. If you’re relatives are serving then WHY THE FUCK AREN’T YOU? BECAUSE YOU’RE A FUCKING POS COWARD!

    Why the fuck don’t you go to Iraq, ‘Stan, or anyplace else in the Middle East? Peddle your anti-American crap THERE, ASSHOLE! Let’s see the video of them hacking your stupid fucking head off with a dull Buck knife.

    It’s not like a REAL AMERICAN would be getting butchered, but a fucking Muslim sympathizer. And the USA needs LESS and LESS of them.

    Go fuck yourself and die.

    . Enough already. My sister is in Ft Doha right now and my brother has done two tours in Afghanistan and was deployed to Iraq 6/08. They are not saints. They are people, just like the people they serve with. Enough already. And your heroic service should be its own reward, you don’t own “patriotism” because of it and you have no right to make all the leaps in logic as to what you’re owed that you are making.

    i love my country. I went to college after high school. I love my country and I don’t give a damn what any body else did after high school, they can’t tell me I don’t. So stfu. I love my country enough to know john Mccain and his 20 hours of combat IS NOT the best choice for its future and as an American, that’s my inalienable RIGHT. Okay?

    Comment by NYC_Chic — 10/20/2008 @ 4:23 pm

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:47 pm

  276. Patterico must’ve really struck a little close to home bcause this thread is sure bringing out the “grounds crew.”

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:48 pm

  277. I am not going to wade into the previous postings. For me I see a pattern in BHO that I see in my 9 year old grandson more regularly than I like … a tendency to be untruthful when confronted with the facts about a transgression. I have a chance to correct that behavior in my young grandson before it becomes habitual and part of his nature. When someone is in their 40′s and is untruthful and not forthcoming as BHO seems to be (Ayers, Rev. Wright, ACORN, etc.), it is now an ingrained behavior pattern and shows lack of character and a flawed values system and therefore he will not receive my vote.

    Fred

    Comment by Fred (e628eb) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:51 pm

  278. i think the term “palling around” has been used enough. the problem for the right is that they can’t use the term “conspired,” which is what they want their feeble minded base to take from this nonsense.

    Comment by mark (e6582a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:52 pm

  279. Molon Labe – Chill out. I am not the nicest of people myself, but Good Allah, don’t act like the charicature in their heads.

    CW – But there is nothing to see here.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:53 pm

  280. NYC Chic – Obama has a security clearance by virtue of his elected position. He would not be able to get one on his own.

    -So you’re saying then that ANYONE can get the clearance to be a Senator? You don’t go thru any scrutiny by the NSA, CIA, FBI and so on? you get the money, run and its all good? Really?

    Obama is the least qualified candidate for President in the history of the United States.

    -No, George Bush was. And he bungled through eight years of the Presidency, destroyed the american economy, ravaged the Constitution and introduced the abuse of power to American politics that you are now afraid obama will continue. You have to be afraid of the next President BECAUSE of the Bush precedent for doing whatever the hell he wanted. He failed at every thing he tried to do before he ran for office and lost, and was made president by the Supreme Court, and then proceeded to just generally, fuck shit ALL the way up.

    Given hia admitted lack of experience he himself suggests we look to his judgement, which I described in the comment with which you took exception. I am from Chicago and get a first hand look at the corruption here, from the state government on down, thank you very much.

    -I’m not from Chicago and couldn’t care less about Chicago. and- corruption is in the EYE of the beholder. You know what’s corrupt to me? That BILLIONS of dollars are missing in Iraq. You probably couldn’t care less about that but to me thats the bee’s knees.

    Tichard Daley consorts with all sorts of criminals and Patrick Fitzgerald is dying to nail his ass.
    -isn’t that the guy who nailed Scooter Libby’s ass? For outing a covert CIA agent as retribution for not going along with one of Bush’s lies?

    Obama is a product of that backscratching machine. His associations with ACORN, the New Party, Rezko, Khalidi, Mansour, Wright, Pfleger, Meeks, Ayers and various slimeball slumlords make him unfit to be President.

    -What about Obama himself? Tell me specifically about what he did and said that would prove to me that he’s unfit. Cite where he said things like jobs are being outsourced because people won’t work for $50 an hour. Or that the economy is sound. And Iraq is a peaceful and stable country. That’ll disqualify him to me in a heartbeat.

    His radical left ideology on education, wealth distribution, trade, labor, foreign policy and other topics make him a danger to the country.
    -No Child Left Behind is a failure; we are running trillions in deficit because noone wants to pay for anything, everyone wants everything for free while we also fight two wars and garanteed a third with McCain in office and everyone is hoarding money so spending is down across the board menaing the recession will only get worse as business do whatever they have to keep profits high; trade sucks because of Bush’s policies the past eight years and worldwide everyone is hoping China and India will break the back of the Empire; everyone I know is temping or facing uncertainty in this job market;and our foreign policy of preemptive attack is why South America is aligning with Russia right now and there are Russian Warshipsin those waters. Try explaning the doctrine of preemtive attack to a kid and see if they don’t look at you like u r stoopit.

    So yeah, I’m with the new guy. Scrap all that shit.

    The responsible press will not report honestly on Barack Obama and Obama will not tell the truth about his past.

    -Even if they did, over and over again you wouldn’t believe it because the only view you are willing to accept is the one you hold now. I have seen exposes on this in every media outlet and in the end they’ve all concluded there’s nothing there but- you won’t let it go. Because its all you have.

    You are incurious yourself about that past, finding it a distraction. What are you worried that you will find?

    -No. Its because I am proud of Barack Obama for that to be the only dirt in his background, that he knows some fucked up people. And because I hated the past eight years and won’t give Bush four more in the form of Mccain.

    Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber have been vetted more thoroughly than Barack Obama.
    -Yeah right. If john McCain knew all of that about Sarah palin, about the earmarks, bankrupting Wasilla, the questions from her own hometown about her pregnancy with the special needs baby (including why in the hell she got on a plane in active labor) and the pregnant teen daughter and he STILL chose her, he’s an ass and a desperate, silly one at that. The only people supporting palin are fat white women who wish they look like her. She doesn’t speak for ANY mothers or American women. Show me a woman with five kids, including a special needs baby and a pregnant teen daughter who would think NOW was a good time to run for office? My ass, you can’t!!!!

    Joe the Plumber isn’t licensed, didn’t pay his taxes and doesn’t even have the money to buy the business McCain’s whole premise was based on. He’s another fraud.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:54 pm

  281. This race has truly brought out all stops. It’s amazing that we try to hurt someone not based on their views but on anything we can find to discredit them. Most of the Obama slandering is from fear. Karmic fear. And to think one man can talk the nation in to turning on all white people. What a fiasco! I hope we aren’t condemned for our relationships with Sadaam, Noriega, Co-Intelpro, Iran Contra, Granada and all the other atrocities we’re linked to. Face it. It’s time for real change. Go Obama.

    Comment by concerned (1a6386) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:55 pm

  282. Ayers got was honored as “citizen of the year” in Chicago in 1997. He was working for a project funded by the Annenberg Foundation. He worked with a lot of people over the years. Is the Mayor of Chicago a supporter of terrorism? But lets continue the logic, since McVeigh came up. Let’s talk about the Militia Movement

    That, of course, is why Stern’s book is useful. You can’t fight what you don’t understand. Stern is especially valuable in his discussion of the “insurrectionist theory,” which stems from the belief that individuals can engage in armed conflict against their government when the government becomes “tyrannical,” as defined by each individual. Americans, of course, have a long tradition of putting individual conscience above government laws, but the tradition from Thoreau to King emphasizes civil disobedience and acceptance of punishment to change the views of the majority. Civil disobedience has great faith in the humanity and reasonableness of one’s fellow citizens. Insurrectionist theory as described by Stern is more of a “let’s get guns and shoot an ATF agent.” G. Gordon Liddy actually urged his followers to do this, with the added stipulation: “Don’t shoot at them because they got a vest on underneath that. Head shots. Head shots …. kill the sons of bitches.”

    The Liddy quotation brings up another of Stern’s points. The vicious antigovernment and racist rhetoric heard daily in the U.S. has an effect. Not only have government employees been threatened, but also their spouses and their children. When political figures refuse to confront and condemn such behavior (either because of fear or a desire for votes), the movement gains respectability and credence.

    If you want to dig in the dirt there’s a lot to dig. I’m with Chomsky on this: US support for terrorism has a long history. But Choomsky has the advantage of knowing more history than Obama, McCain or the rest of you.

    “1 of the “main havens” of terorism=IRAQ.”
    Something else we can thank Bush for.

    Comment by Nanker Phelge (139099) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:55 pm

  283. JD;

    Thanks…good advice…

    ML

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:55 pm

  284. oh, and fred, i want you to look up the acorn farce and try to make a point using evidence. Palin’s husband says worse things about the USA than rev. Wright. try to disprove that.

    Comment by mark (e6582a) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:55 pm

  285. JUST TO CALL TO EVERYONES ATTENTION. BILL AYERS IS NOW A DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS. DO YOU THINK THIS GREAT UNIVERSITY WOULD EMPLOY A TERRORIST?

    BILL AYERS HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED FOR HIS COMPASSIONATE WORK ON CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS IN THE CHICAGO AREA. SAME QUESTION: DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HIRE A TERRORIST?

    BILL AYERS JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, BECAUSE OF HIS CHARITABLE WORK, WAS NAMED THE CITIZEN OF THE YEAR FOR CHICAGO ILLINOIS. SAME QUESTION, OR IS IT FINALLY STARTING TO SINK IN: WOULD THE CITY OF CHICAGO NAME A TERRORIST AS CITIZEN OF THE YEAR?

    I HAVE DONE SOME THINGS IN MY PAST THAT I AM NOT VERY PROUD OF. OF COURSE SOME OF YOU BY THE WAY YOU TALK ARE THE NEXT THING TO VIRGIN MARY. THE POINT THAT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT WE HAVE ALL SINNED. GOD FORGIVES SIN. HE NOT ONLY FORGIVES SIN, HE FORGETS THOSE SINS. WE HAVE A ONCE IN THE LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY TO ELECT FINALLY A DECENT, BRILLIANT MAN FOR PRESIDENT. WILL YOU ALLOW SUCH TRIVIAL TRASH CONCERNING A MAN THAT EVIDENTLY HAS CHANGED HIS LIFE, TO DESTROY THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THIS GREAT COUNTRY OF OURS.

    Comment by DWAYNE OVERSTREET (1903e9) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:57 pm

  286. Before my husband and I go to pray and thank God for all our veterans and our country and servicemembers serving now, I close off tonight by saying also to THE ONE THAT SAID,”Se is Joe the plumber DOESN’T SALUTE OUR FLAG at the ball game”. He is also, “A VETRAN”! Good night America and may some of us have peace at heart and know that God always prevails in the end.

    Comment by combatcowgirl (e85aae) — 10/20/2008 @ 4:59 pm

  287. john Mccain and his 20 hours of combat

    Care to substantiate this assertion?

    -http://www.forandagainst.com/articles/McCain_s_Military_Record_Shows_He_Is_Unfit_To_Be_President
    2. http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/mccain_post_card_word%5B1%5D.pdf
    3. http://podcastpatriot.com/2008/08/05/mccain-obama-and-the-military-experience/

    Say It Ain’t SO!!!

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:00 pm

  288. TWENTY YEARS OF PREACHING ANTI-WHITE HATRED. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA WAS THERE FOR ALL OF IT. AND HE CALLS HIMSELF A “CHRISTIAN”? HA!

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/01/obamas-church-founded-on-radical-creed/

    Obama’s church founded on radical creed

    Tuesday, April 1, 2008

    The church where Sen. Barack Obama has worshipped for two decades publicly declares that its ministry is founded on a 1960s book that espouses “the destruction of the white enemy.”

    Trinity United Church of Christ’s Web site says its teachings are based on the black liberation theology of James H. Cone and his 1969 book “Black Theology and Black Power.”

    “What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love,” Mr. Cone wrote in the book.

    Mr. Cone, a professor at the Union Theological Seminary in New York, added that “black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.”

    Mr. Obama’s campaign, which for weeks has weathered criticism about inflammatory racial language by the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. at Trinity, said the candidate “vehemently disagrees” with those tenets.

    “It’s absurd to suggest that he or anyone should be held responsible for every quote in every book read by a member of their church,” said Obama spokesman Reid Cherlin.

    “Barack Obama is not a theologian, and what he learned in church is to love Jesus Christ and work on behalf of his fellow man, regardless of race, class or circumstance. This is a faulty and disingenuous approach to a church, and a flawed way to judge a candidate,” he said.

    Mr. Obama has been a member of Trinity, on Chicago’s South Side, since finding religion there 20 years ago under Mr. Wright’s mentorship. Mr. Wright married the Obamas and baptized their children, and a sermon of his inspired Mr. Obama to title his book “The Audacity of Hope.”

    There is no evidence to date in any of Mr. Obama’s public comments or speeches that he espouses the radical features of the black liberation theology practiced at his church.

    Critics say Trinity’s message verges on separatist philosophy and at the very least advocates exclusively for blacks.

    “The liberation theology and the black-values system to which his membership ascribe is a clear commitment to the social and spiritual enhancement of only the black race,” the Rev. Corey J. Hodges, who is black, wrote last year in the Salt Lake Tribune. “Even more troubling is Wright’s use of the pulpit to perpetuate racial division.”

    For years, Mr. Wright delivered sermons and endorsed articles in the church bulletin that called the United States and Israel racist regimes.

    The bulletin’s “pastor’s page” included essays that said Israel and South Africa “worked on an ethnic bomb that kills blacks and Arabs,” compared Israel to Nazi Germany and quoted leaders of the terrorist group Hamas calling Israel a “deformed modern apartheid state.”

    In a bulletin last year, Mr. Wright lashed out at the news media for scrutinizing the church, blaming “racist United States of America” and “white arrogance” for distracting the country from more important issues, such as the Iraq war and Hurricane Katrina victims.

    The church declined to comment for this article, but the Rev. Otis Moss III, the church’s junior pastor, who took over for Mr. Wright, wrote in the bulletin in October that media conglomerates “operate with contempt and disdain for the black community, women, and people of the African Diaspora.”

    Conrad Worrill, a leader of the Chicago-based National Black United Front, said attention directed at Trinity United demonstrates that racist attitudes persist in the United States.

    “Even if [Mr. Obama] did support some of the tenets of some of the ideas embedded in that theology, I still don’t think it has anything to do with his vision and his candidacy,” said Mr. Worrill, whose organization promotes black political and cultural education and activism.

    “I think most black people would agree that what Jeremiah Wright said is the truth. … What we see playing out on the public stage is how black people still see America and the world and how white people cannot see the truth. It has nothing to do with Barack Obama.”

    Mr. Wright, who recently retired as the church’s pastor after 36 years, defended Trinity’s religious views in “talking points” posted on the church’s Web site (www.tucc.org).

    “To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African-American people are superior to anyone else,” he said.

    Mr. Cone recently told Forbes magazine that he doesn’t know how much Mr. Obama knows about black-liberation theology.

    “I’ve read both of Barack Obama’s books, and I heard the speech [on race]. I don’t see anything in the books or in the speech that contradicts black liberation theology. If he had it explained to him, I think he would [understand it],” he said.

    Mr. Cone calls his own teachings a fusion of teachings of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King.

    In a debate last month with his rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, Mr. Obama rejected the church’s decision last year to honor Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who is known for anti-Semitic remarks.

    The senator also disavowed some of Mr. Wright’s racist sermons after they were publicized in video clips on television and the Internet and on talk radio.

    But in a March 18 speech on race, Mr. Obama said he could not sever ties with the pastor. He said Mr. Wright is like family and that the pastor’s outlook is scarred by civil rights struggles of the 1960s.

    Mr. Obama said he was unaware until last month that his longtime spiritual mentor and friend used incendiary racist rhetoric in his sermons, such as denouncing the “U.S. of KKKA” and proclaiming, “God damn America.”

    Mr. Obama said rants against whites were never part of the Sunday services he attended.

    “I don’t purchase all the DVDs [of Mr. Wright's sermons], and I didn’t read all the church bulletins,” Mr. Obama said Friday on ABC’s “The View.” “It’s not to excuse it.”

    Mr. Obama said his mixed-race heritage — his mother was white and his father black — gives him a unique vantage point from which to help bridge the nation’s racial divides.

    “The church itself, though, is a wonderful, welcoming church. And if you guys went there on a Sunday, you would feel right at home,” he told the panelists on TV’s “The View,” most of them white. “You would see people talking about Jesus, and mercy, and sin, and family … and forgiveness.”

    “That doesn’t excuse what [Mr. Wright] said, but I do think it’s important just to put it in context.”

    The Rev. Jane Fisler Hoffman, a member of Trinity who serves as a pastor in Southern California, said the Chicago church does not follow a radical doctrine, despite the angry words of Mr. Cone’s treatise.

    “It may have had some influence on what unfolded, but [Trinity] is a wonderful church, not a separatist church,” said Mrs. Hoffman, who is white. “Anyone who tries to paint the church as hateful would be missing the mark.”

    OBAMA”S CHURCH

    The following is doctrine of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, where Democratic presidential front-runner Sen. Barack Obama has been a member since finding religion there 20 years ago.

    Motto: Unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian.

    Official statement: Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

    First tenet of the black values system: Commitment to God.

    ” ‘The God of our weary years’ will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.”

    Source: Trinity United Church of Christ

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:04 pm

  289. Molon Labe, what this country needs is less and less people like you.

    Comment by Jim (87e69d) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:06 pm

  290. Dear Matt,

    Sarah Palin’s husband is not running for President and BHO is…..

    Fred

    Comment by Fred (e628eb) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:07 pm

  291. Dwane Overstreet;

    God forgives sin to those who are repentant (e.g. remorseful for their sin) and who ASK FOR FORGIVENESS.

    On 9/11/2001 the NYT printed their interview with Ayers. He was unrepentant for his past. He said he “didn’t regret” the things he did and wished he’d “done more” bombings.

    By his own words Ayers is unrepentant. It’s not difficult to believe Ayers has not asked God for His forgiveness. If indeed Ayers had asked, he’d have asked out of remorse and repentance. Neither trait of which Ayers has show, nor most like will ever show.

    Regards,
    Molon Labe

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:09 pm

  292. That….NY chic…..in a nutshell is the difference between the likes of you and real Americans like the rest of us. I bet the NYPD and NYFD would be ashamed to know that you align yourself in any way with “NY”.

    , proving that you and all like you are the disease ridden

    -And that you are crazy. What’s the definition of Fascism by the way?

    So funny you should mention NYPD and FDNY. My husband is EMS/FDNY Paramedic and he’ll be home shortly. I have about seven friends in the NYPD. And not a single one of them is voting mccain. Because HIS POLICIES suck.

    you can judge all you want who is and isnt a TRUE Christian and what this country is and isn’t “supposed to be” but you won’t put down the kool aid. Obama is going to come with his goon squad ( in a Cadillac with tinted windows and $20,000 rims) and take your money and then drive over to my “crib” and give it to me?

    Or is he saying that companies use this nation’s infrastructure to enrich themselves and the people who head them and that once they use that infrastructure they can’t turn around and take all that money they have to put something back in?

    You’re lucky I’m not qualified to run because as President, your Fascist ass would pay your taxes, albeit on a flat rate but you would pay and I wouldn’t give ANY tax breaks for big businesses. Not when you use the internet and electrical power and the highways to enrich yourselves. You would pay and for everybody you fired to keep your bottom line fat, your ass would pay more. I’d make every corporation pay fairly (which they’d dissolve before they did) until it was nothing but Mom and pop businesses again. Like in the good old days of my youth, the 80′s.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:13 pm

  293. Would the trolls be so kind as to enlighten us from whence they came? I know Beldar had a recent post over at Hugh Hewitt’s blog mentioning Patrick Frey’s chiding of the dog trainer LAT for its lies about the Obama-Ayers linkage.

    Obama’s masses of truth squads are, in reality, clueless, mutant bald-faced liars at every turn. Pity Patterico doesn’t have the resources to enforce rules that might ameliorate some of the worst offenses.

    Now I have to wonder what impact Biden’s truthfulness might have on the race in the last few weeks. That Beldar article does point out that clueless Obama actually thinks that JFK’s initial meeting with Khruschev was actually successful, when even JFK realized it was a huge mistake.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:13 pm

  294. Hiya Jim;

    Truth hurts, buddy. I can feel your pain. Must be devastating to see the lies and deceptions your lover has told you. Oh…the horror of it all!!

    Not to worry my friend. Just drink more Kool-Aid and inhale frequently, deeply, and often…just as mobama did in his younger years. You too will feel the release of drug induced myopia, misdirection, and myth such as obamania is.

    And remember….put da lime in da obamanut and drink id all down, put da lime in da obamanut and drink ‘em bouf togedder, put da lime in da obamanut and call me in da moor-oh-or-oh-morning.

    Den u feel bedder…

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:15 pm

  295. NYC Chic – You’re full of lies tonight.

    Tichard Daley consorts with all sorts of criminals and Patrick Fitzgerald is dying to nail his ass.
    -isn’t that the guy who nailed Scooter Libby’s ass? For outing a covert CIA agent as retribution for not going along with one of Bush’s lies?
    -Armitage outed Plame and Powell covered up for him. Fitzgerald madaged to manaufacture a perjury charge against Libby.

    -I’m not from Chicago and couldn’t care less about Chicago.
    – Which is why you have no interest in finding out more about Obama’s background. You don’t sound much like a Hillary supporter btw.

    -What about Obama himself? Tell me specifically about what he did and said that would prove to me that he’s unfit.
    – I think I must be going to fast for you honey. He hasn’t actually done anything and that’s the point. He doesn’t have any qualifications. There are people with actual qualifications tunning. Hope is not a strategy.

    Try explaning the doctrine of preemtive attack to a kid and see if they don’t look at you like u r stoopit.
    - Kids wills understand preemptive attack a lot better than blinkered morons such as yourself. They have a lot more intellectual curiousity and flexibility.

    The only people supporting palin are fat white women who wish they look like her. She doesn’t speak for ANY mothers or American women.
    -Demonstrably false, bigoted and sexist. Congratulations. How many kids to you have, honey?

    Joe the Plumber isn’t licensed, didn’t pay his taxes and doesn’t even have the money to buy the business McCain’s whole premise was based on. He’s another fraud.

    -Joe the Plumber doesn’t matter. It was Obama’s answer that was important.

    Do you need to be a license to be as stupid as you are in New York? I was wondering if they might use it as a revenue raiser or something. I bet they could raise a ton of money that way.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:16 pm

  296. NYC_Chic you have a lot of nerve calling people fascists especially given your admittedly dictatorial fantasy world for your economic wet dream of nothing but “mom and pop businesses.” You really come off like a unhinged bitch.

    Comment by Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:22 pm

  297. Uggh and on the other side of the spectrum we get the CAPS USING Molon Labe who claims to speak for God and is the judge of who is a “real American”. This thread is “off da hook yo!” (pre-emptive self-denunciation for usage of tacky urban slang.)

    Comment by Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:27 pm

  298. SSDD–Can you please post some stuff about McCain’s convicted felon friends Charles Keating and Jim Hensley (his father-in-law)–you know, the ones who bankrolled his campaigns for umpteen hundreds of thousands of dollars. McCain doesn’t like Obama’s tax plan because he and his tax-evading pals willfinally have to pay their fair share under it rather than defrauding the rest of us.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:28 pm

  299. Ayers did his time (didnt he? I dont know but he must have been convicted of something back in the 60s) and paid his dues. If he’s a terrorist, why hasnt Homeland Security arrested him?

    Do John and Sarah have the goods on him? Terrorist things hes done in the past 5 years, or 10, or 40? They should split it to Homeland Security;

    If they dont, why dont they just shut up about something criminal and stupid the guy did over 40 years ago?

    Comment by Tex (46d762) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:32 pm

  300. NY_chic;

    Big business has too many tax breaks. But taxing ‘small businesses’ extra on earnings over $250,000 is a play directly from the karl marx handbook.

    Obama makes it sound like a big deal that he’s taxing “small businesses that make over $250,000 a year” but that’s smoke and mirrors. Two halfast carpenters can start a handyman business and be making more than $250,000 annually in 2 or 3 years. I know ’cause I did that.

    Hit hardest by obama’s wealth redistribution plan will be the mom ‘n pop shops and “micro businesses” of one or two guys. These by far are the folks making up the biggest component of Obama’s intended tax target. There are more businesses making (from zero) to $500,000 than there are businesses making up to that $10 million cutoff point I referenced.

    So….the marxist messiah is gonna start his reign by sticking it to the largest business populace in the “small business” category. That’s great. Real Constitutional. NOT. It smacks of Marx’s redistribution of wealth plank in the Communist Manifesto.

    Right off the bat, as in virtually every socialist government around the world, the ‘little people’, in this case the super small, micro businesses, will have their modest success targeted for takeover by Obama…so that he can give it to the “more needy”.

    Name me one socialist country that’s seen it’s gross domestic product rate increase under marxism…and continue to increase for at least 20 years. You can’t do it. Everyplace around the globe the stuff that obama is preaching is a recognized failure…but sadly…only recognized by those who’ve “been there and done that”. Obamaphiles like you haven’t yet seen the elephant. It will soon be apparent, though.

    Dubya has been a huge disappointment. Lots I could say about that. I served around the world since the 50′s. You could never imagine in your wildest dreams what I’ve seen. I can tell you this, the muslim world has been building to an all out war with America since the 40′s. Obama won’t stop it, and in fact, he’s their Manchurian candidate. I don’t expect you to believe or understand this, but many years from now, when things are at their gravest, you’ll remember all that “we” on the other side have warned of and you’ll realize with much consternation that “we” were correct.

    Yes, Bush has made a lot of mistakes. Our current economic conditions are the result of democrats pushing for deregulation though. Dodd (D-CT) and Frank (D-NY) were pretty much on the payroll and passed every deregulation they could. CRA (Community Reinvestment Act)? Gimme a break. The economic meltdown has been 20 years in the making. There’s plenty of blame to go around, not just dubya.

    Electing obama is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. He promises “change”. Everyone thinks that means they’ll make an extra $50 or $100 a week, and that they’ll have free health care, and that they’ll have ipods, cell phones, and HDTV’s.

    Everyone is living in a fantasy. The American people are too soft. Everyone here wants to have everything but no one wants to work for it. Obama will make it all right, they think. What Obama will do will be to change what everyone thought they would be getting.

    No one will be happy in the end.

    Regards,
    ML

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:35 pm

  301. Good grief. And some of you call yourselves Christians? So much anger.

    I don’t care what race Obama is; I was initially a Hillary supporter (in case you don’t remember, she is white). I would even vote Repub if the candidate’s ideals were similar to mine. I simply asked the question. I read on another site where a guy said succinctly that he’s voting for McCain because he’s white. It’s one of those questions that no one wants to ask or answer but is, at a subconsious level, a key variable in the decision of who some will vote for. At least that guy was honest.

    Again people, focus on the issues. I don’t care who Obama’s neighbor is, nor do I care about McCain’s stint as a POW. He served honorably, yes. But McCain constantly uses this as a play on your sympathies. And it’s working. I’m tired of hearing about it and it has no bearing on whether he’ll make a good president. His Republican voting record on key issues does matter, as does his recent lack of good judgment and impulsiveness.

    If you are basing your vote on the character of the candidate, do research and really look at both. Do the research on the Senate S&L hearings and McCain/Keating 5 association. Do serious research into McCain’s association with Liddy, and the AIP. You can’t get anymore un-American than Vogler. If we’re talking about character, remember that McCain committed adultry because he didn’t like the way his wife looked after her accident. Research Palin’s emotional involvement and abuse of power as Governor in the firing of her ex-brother-in-law.

    I’m just asking to vote wisely, not emotionally, and consider the issues that will affect you. Stop bashing each other and act civilized.

    Comment by Maureen (2bd604) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:37 pm

  302. This Ayers bla! bla! bla! is just a comical distraction. Why don’t we think about serious issues that will impact on the well being of the citizens of this country like the economy, medicare, social security and so on.ENOUGH OF THIS DISTRACTION!

    Comment by Michael (55ccdb) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:39 pm

  303. You piece of shit! You fucking anti-American asshole! How DARE YOU TALK TO Combat Cowgirl in your pussy mother fuckin’ language!

    You fucking coward, hiding behind a keyboard. If you’re relatives are serving then WHY THE FUCK AREN’T YOU? BECAUSE YOU’RE A FUCKING POS COWARD!

    Why the fuck don’t you go to Iraq, ‘Stan, or anyplace else in the Middle East?

    -Molon Labe: I’d whip your fucking ass. Watch how you speak to me, even behind a keyboard because I’m not Obama and I don’t have to go for that shit. Who the fuck do you think you are? Why are hiding behind her skirt. you want to talk all this shit, lets talk about YOUR record of service. People go into the military AS AN OPTION.

    Combat Cowgirl is NO ANGEL. If she served heroically, it should be its own reward. Period. The military is there to perform a JOB. The same way people who work for Sanitation do not have the market cornered on cleanliness, people serving in the military don’t have the market cornered on patriotism.

    I went to college after high school. NOBODY can tell me that their choice to do something else makes them more American than I am. Period.

    As far as being a “Muslim Symapthizer”, you admit then that you are on a Crusade against Islam?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:42 pm

  304. Hiya Jack Klompus;

    Pray tell, would you tell all of us please, the definition of “Christian”? And please support that definition with BIBLICAL REFERENCES (I know how much you LIKE CAPS, BRO).

    Don’t forget to include Biblical quotations where God or Jesus or the Apostles (including YOUR FAVORITE, JUDAS) endorsed same sex intercourse and same sex marriage! We all await your most learned answers!

    And of course, quote for us the Biblical texts that endorse muhammed! We SO WANT TO KNOW!

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:43 pm

  305. looser… You are nazy monkeys

    Comment by joe plumber (159165) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:43 pm

  306. Ayers did his time (didnt he? I dont know but he must have been convicted of something back in the 60s) and paid his dues. If he’s a terrorist, why hasnt Homeland Security arrested him?

    Do John and Sarah have the goods on him? Terrorist things hes done in the past 5 years, or 10, or 40? They should split it to Homeland Security;

    If they dont, why dont they just shut up about something criminal and stupid the guy did over 40 years ago?

    Comment by Tex — 10/20/2008 @ 5:32 pm

    More lies, Tex. He got away with it although his wife did time. I suspect it helped that his father was rich. Funny how that works, Tex.

    “Guilty as hell and free as a bird.” That’s Ayres’ motto, Tex. That’s your guy.

    Comment by Mike K (1ac1c7) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:43 pm

  307. So, for the RECORD, this isn’t about ACORN or (Joe), the plumber- “This is all about that new kid on the block or more definitively, “That One: the audacity of a Barack Obama.”

    Enlightening, however…I take it that we are finally brought up to speed on that scandalous [terrorist] mongering, Mayor Richard Daley, who called Chicago’s University, Professor William Ayers “a valued member of the Chicago community.” “And wouldn’t ya know it,” – that terrorist, sympathizing, city of Chicago gave Ayers its “Citizen of the Year,” award in 1997 for his work on the Annenberg project.

    Conservative Spin:

    [Though, conservative friends of John McCain, who also served on that project, were of course, immediately vindicated; having been, held [hostage], and all… Thusly … pro jurist, of all de facto, terror nullification by approbation of said terrorist meltdown could only conclude that Senator McCain’s propensity in being a hostage (POW), in waiting, by association, would be negligent at best: And otherwise, would only serve to denigrate his responsibility as a (POW) – Hostage: Hanoi’s indoctrination, against his will, notwithstanding…facilitated his subjective vindication…?? [A noun, a verb, and POW: Mental hostage of Southeast Asia]: In his own defense, respectively…] …??

    …So, as Chicago is on the “no fly, off limits, and under terrorist watch,” we are now, to embrace the City of Chicagoans as the new faces of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban? “Hey … It doesn’t really matter if it’s a young Al-Qaeda or Al Capone, as long as it sounds alien and frightening.” … “Copy that popi, fer sure.”… “Pit bull – over and out.”

    (MIA) – “Missing In Action,” or “Made In America,” its just as profoundly immoral… Senator McCain’s calculated referendum on violence will likely conclude his moratorium, on peace: inciting to inflict harm upon a political opponent (Obama), because of the young Democrat’s campaign initiatives of civil discourse: However, this will no doubt, conclude the irony of a legend (John Sidney McCain III); rather poetic, and almost seems fitting…he has had so many rehearsals in an allegiance in discordance; his defection of morality is of little or no doubt, complete… There can only be one final campaign – foe, comrade, or dissension; it will end here … nonetheless, a matter of his own making… He and those who support him in this effort aren’t Christians: “They are liars.”

    And, to address the pessimist… A young man reportedly, said, some time ago – “Why do you worry?”… “Did you not know that I was about my Father’s Business?”…

    [Reflections]

    Wherever, Barack has been, and to just whom he has spoken with or on behalf of; were in the interest of a greater good, a journey that has injected him into the world’s arenas of frivolous posturing, hosted by fraternities, and sororities of disparaging patriots … contemptuous of [HOPE]. And yes, Obama, having the audacity of [HOPE’S] tenacious and resilient passion that is enshrined in human dignity; has all but, sealed his fate as a lamb of sacrifice, if you will… By all accounts, have inflamed the naysayer, to trample upon the truth in frantic attempts to shadow the vision of the lamb, of any continued hope that may foster a real peace by virtue of dissemination, guaranteeing a preponderance in posterity for the duration of the People’s, United Nations… Any such shadows are indicative of an anti-Christ… [“If a man says, I love God, and hateh his brother, is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”]. 1 JOHN 4:20-21. It is in this context that, those whom truly indulge the Spirit of the Lord will know and recognize “all” the children thereof; besides the young Nazarene – as well as they knows the Lord’s Prayer: Nonetheless, as would be in His Salutation – Jesus of Nazareth: Unto Barack Obama – “Blessed are the merciful, for they shell receive mercy.”…

    SHALOM

    FN:

    [“BLESSED ARE THE MERCIFUL, FOR THEY SHALL RECEIVE MERCY.”] … All the warriors “wannabe,” may want to make a note of that…

    http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

    Comment by Dino (8dfd4e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:44 pm

  308. We, democrats, republicans and all of America, have heard about Ayers from Mccain, Palin, even Elizabeth Hasselbech. None of them are willing to let it go, even though we have all had plenty of time to do our own research, and form our own opinions. So, my question is this, why are we not now turning to Mccain’s friendships with G. Gordon Liddy (who, by the way, Mccain is self admittedly not ashamed of being friends with), Charles Keating, and the multitude of others who are questionable in many’s eyes. Why, why, why? Maybe it is because us, democrats (who republicans are all to quick to call elitists, socialists, baby killers, stupid, lazy, Marxists, and such) have much more class and dignity for other humans to stoop to such a level. I had nothing but respect for Mccain before this election started, and now I have none. He insulted my intelligence when he picked Sarah Palin and has done nothing but insult me every time Ayers’ name comes out of his or her mouth. I now find him dispicable, and can’t wait for this to be over.

    Comment by Christi (8938f0) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:47 pm

  309. Obama is the least qualified candidate for President in the history of the United States.

    -No, George Bush was.

    Please, NYC, explain to us exactly how Baracky has greater relevant experience for the Presidency than President Bush did. Apparently, governing a state the size of Texas and running private companies do not qualify as experience to Leftists.

    -isn’t that the guy who nailed Scooter Libby’s ass? For outing a covert CIA agent as retribution for not going along with one of Bush’s lies?

    That is not the reason Scooter Libby was indicted and found guilty by a jury. But, we know that you are allergic to actual facts.

    Joe the Plumber isn’t licensed, didn’t pay his taxes and doesn’t even have the money to buy the business McCain’s whole premise was based on. He’s another fraud.

    The tolerant Left reveals itself. He doesn’t have to be licensed to do residential work. He is apparently the only person in the world that the Dems care about being behind on their taxes. A fraud? How dare Baracky approach a fraud. This was clearly a Rovian plant.

    DWAYNE – GOD FORGIVES IF YOU REPENT. SINCE AYERS HAS NOT DONE SO, I SEE NO NEED TO FORGIVE HIM. IN FACT, I WILL LEAVE THAT TO GOD, IT IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE.

    NYC chic apparently thinks that for political reasons, one gets to redefine the nature of someone else’s service. That link was not very persuasive.

    Patterico – One could congratulate you on the increase in traffic, but if this is what it is like, then you should be chided ;-)

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:49 pm

  310. John Mcain didn’t mind giving speeches to thees folks who spoke highly of a woman who shot a doctor at a abortion clinic.I believe she belonged to a group who believed in violence against abortion clinic’s.
    http://blog.gayrightswatch.com/2008/04/john-mccain-keynote-at-oregon-citizens-alliance-fundraiser/

    Comment by Tee (8c5d6a) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:50 pm

  311. When I say “McCain”, you say “Keating.”
    McCain! Keating!
    McCain! Keating!!

    Comment by SpreadtheWealthAround2008 (a54233) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:53 pm

  312. NY_chic wrote:

    “you admit then that you are on a Crusade against Islam?”

    Where did I say I was on a “crusade against islam”? Typical liberal shell game, take what was said and rephrase it in accusatory fashion. Child’s play. For children.

    For the record:

    I didn’t issue a fatwah declaring Jihad on America

    I didn’t issue a fatwah urging all muslims around the world to kill Americans, anyplace, anytime, any way

    I didn’t take 300 plus American civilians hostage in Iran

    I didn’t attack the US embassy in Beirut

    I didn’t attack the US Cole

    I didn’t set off bombs in the World Trade Center underground garage

    I didn’t fly a plane into tower 1 of the World Trade Center

    I didn’t fly a plane into tower 2 of the World
    Trade center

    I didn’t target and murder 3,000 innocent men, women, and children out of hatred and religious bigotry.

    HMMMMM…I SEE A PATTERN HERE….DO YOU?

    But to answer your question….I will respond in kind ten times against any and all that declare war on or try to hurt me, my family, my loved ones, or my country. I don’t give a rip what one’s religion is. You target me and mine? I will respond overwhelmingly to protect me and mine.

    If you want to commisirate with the enemy that’s your choosing. If you want to sympathize with those sworn to kill your family, your neighbors, and all other Americans anytime, anyplace, anyhow, that’s your choice. If you want to make excuses for the murderous islamofascists that targeted men, women, and children here in your homeland that’s your choice. You’re the one that has to live with it and it’s consequences.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:55 pm

  313. Maureen says …

    I don’t care what race Obama is; I was initially a Hillary supporter (in case you don’t remember, she is white).

    You are the only one discussing Baracky’s race. Nobody else is. That says more about you than it does those you are projecting views onto.

    I particularly like the litany of lies, distortions, and talking points you threw out about Sen. McCain right before calling on everyone to be nice.

    I had nothing but respect for Mccain before this election started, and now I have none. He insulted my intelligence when he picked Sarah Palin

    This is a common concern troll talking point. How, exactly, is it an insult to your intelligence, or lack thereof, that he picked a female Governor to be his running mate?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:56 pm

  314. Distraction? Obama’s friends and advisers aren’t important?

    Barack’s mentors include Rev. Wright(Marxist?, racist) and Frank Davis(CPUSA member). He’s friends with William Ayers(terrorist), Pentagon bomber. Franklen Raines and Jim Johnson, both former Fannie Mae CEOs, are Obama’s economic advisers. He has several ties to the fraudsters and racial blackmailers at ACORN. He bought his house in a shady deal with Rezko(criminal)…and he won’t be honest about most of these connections.

    He’s never created a business. He’s done next to nothing in his ten years in Government. How can a guy run on the montra of “change” when he voted “present” more than half the time? He can’t even decide “yes or no”, yet he’s qualified to “change” America?!

    Barack and Ayers, together, “changing” education!? Who would want Ayers to have anything to do with their kids eduacation?

    Spread the wealth, lol.
    kelatious

    Comment by kelatious (327015) — 10/20/2008 @ 5:58 pm

  315. kelatious;

    Well said! One disagreement, though. He’s definately done some things during his time in the govt.

    He “organized” voter fraud for ACORN.

    He fraternized with unrepentant criminals who tried to kill American citizens and servicemen and women.

    He sat under the teachings and guidance of members of SDS, CPUSA, and the New Party…all parts of Chicago’s corrupt political landscape.

    And lastly, he’s managed to fool most of the sheeple of America most of the time…enuf to go n’ get hisself ‘lected pres-dent uh da Younited States uv America.

    Not bad for a muslim raised, anti-Christian, anti-white guy who wants to punish successful Americans by taking their wages, property, and possessions away…and giving them to the “less fortunate”!

    ——————————–

    What a swell guy, Wally!

    Yeah, Beve. An’ he’s gonna show us howda turn water into gold, too; an’ get the whole world to like us, just like we were real brothers with the whole world. ‘Cause we’ll be giving away our gold to the rest of the world. Even the guys that hate our guts. Obama says if we spread the wealth around everyone will love us and be happy, an’ all that stuff.

    Neat Wally!

    ———————-

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:08 pm

  316. More striking than all this is the depth this guy is involved with the yahoo’s who created the whole fanny – freddie fiasco! And why would all those arab folks like to see him elected ? Got to wonder!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by James Williams (6ebacf) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:08 pm

  317. I’m a liar and you’re an IDIOT:

    -Armitage outed Plame and Powell covered up for him. Fitzgerald madaged to manaufacture a perjury charge against Libby.

    —-So, we should be pressing somekind of charges against Fitzgerald. If we know the facts and a Federal prosecutor subverted them and instead “manufactured” a charge then that’s AGINST THE LAW isn’t it and Fitzgerald is subject to prosecution himself for it, isn’t he? And since we now know him to be a fabricator who would put his job and reputation on the line to “manufacture” a charge, isn’t discredited?

    -I’m not from Chicago and couldn’t care less about Chicago.
    - Which is why you have no interest in finding out more about Obama’s background. You don’t sound much like a Hillary supporter btw.
    —-You’re crazy. If she had won th eprimaries, my girl was going to make history as the first woman president for sure, if I had anything to do with it.

    -What about Obama himself? Tell me specifically about what he did and said that would prove to me that he’s unfit.
    - I think I must be going to fast for you honey.

    —-you have been. Obviously. I’m suposed to be looking at what others did and what he DIDN’T do. I’m supposed to be looking at the bad his associates, ALL friends and ALL allies did but since he didn’t do any of that himself I should be indicting him based on what he DIDN’T do. no, You’re going to have to explain that one in laymen’s terms.

    He hasn’t actually done anything and that’s the point. He doesn’t have any qualifications. There are people with actual qualifications tunning. Hope is not a strategy.
    -Hope is not a strategy and that’s why he has laid out his plans for the economy, taxes, the war and foreign policy. That’s why people like Colin Powell will have a role in his administration. What are McCain’s qualifications? Specifially?
    What leadership has McCain shown? I’m tired of the media giving him the Pass of all Passes because he was a POW- What are his qualification otherwise?

    Try explaning the doctrine of preemtive attack to a kid and see if they don’t look at you like u r stoopit.
    - Kids wills understand preemptive attack a lot better than blinkered morons such as yourself. They have a lot more intellectual curiousity and flexibility.

    —–You’re crazy. Take the best case scenario.
    “Johnny, there are some people that we can’t be sure of. That might want to hurt us. When we are unsure of them, we are going to attack them first, before they can hurt us?”

    Long pause.

    (Your crazy ass kids would probably come back with “That’s like at school. When I beat up other kids with a lock in a sock for looking at me funny.”)

    Mine would be like “I don’t want to do that because if we’re wrong we’ll be killing innocent people. Are we going to talk to them first?”

    “Hell no! Fuck no! You liberal pussy! What?!!! Hell no, fuck no! Not unless they agree to ALL of our conditions first – before we talk!!!”

    The only people supporting palin are fat white women who wish they look like her. She doesn’t speak for ANY mothers or American women.
    -Demonstrably false, bigoted and sexist.
    —-Yeah right!!!!!!

    Congratulations. How many kids to you have, honey?

    -Three boys.

    Joe the Plumber isn’t licensed, didn’t pay his taxes and doesn’t even have the money to buy the business McCain’s whole premise was based on. He’s another fraud.

    -Joe the Plumber doesn’t matter. It was Obama’s answer that was important.

    —-More important than that was McCain referencing him 21 times. ad nauseum. non-damn-stop.

    Do you need to be a license to be as stupid as you are in New York? I was wondering if they might use it as a revenue raiser or something. I bet they could raise a ton of money that way.

    ——-Har har. When you say stupid, do you mean Sarah Palin Stupid or George Bush stupid or like Dan Quayle stupid or like Michael savage listener stupid?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:09 pm

  318. Worse, NYC_Chic, Joe Biden stupid.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:11 pm

  319. Bogus.

    If you looked at past articles you will find that this “launch” was an event to launch someone else and sponsored by Annenburg who invited Obama to this event as an after though. Ayers jumped on the band wagon and said hey we have a shiny penny here. Wasn’t planned at all. Just happened to be in Ayers house. The committee was founded by and the rest of the it was Republicans. Annenburg has supported McCain (see the article here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/mccains-trumpets-endorsem_n_132954.html ) so that MUST mean since there is an association that McCain IS A TERRORIST TOO! Good grief people. Colin Powell, Bush’s top military guy, endorsed Obama and if he passed HIS military clearance then you know that Obama is the furthest thing from a terrorist. Unless you consider Powell a terrorist too now and if so then because he was associated with Bush then Bush MUST BE A TERRORIST TOO! Our country has been run by terrorists for the past 8 years and AH HAH! that’s why the country is screwed up now. Because of those darned terrorists governing our country! Get a life people. The Ayers connection is so bogus. Let’s think about issues instead of the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, and Obama being a terrorist. Bogus!
    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/20081018_Obama-Ayers_link_involved_Annenberg_grant.html

    Comment by Pamela (9be5f0) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:11 pm

  320. Pamela, that’s pretty incoherent attempt to duck the reality.

    Your link attempts to ignore all of the evidence that’s been developed of a long term relationship between Ayers and Obama. That Annenberg was involved does not change Obama’s relationship to Ayers – an unrepentant terrorist.

    Annenberg is not running for President …

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:14 pm

  321. NYC chic – I am interested in you explaining how Baracky is more experienced than President Bush was when he ran for President, or how he is more qualified than Sen. McCain.

    The only people supporting palin are fat white women who wish they look like her. She doesn’t speak for ANY mothers or American women.

    I missed this little nugget of wisdom the first time through. You really are a piece of work.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:14 pm

  322. BTW, NYC_Chic, that’s quite a mouth you have on you.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:15 pm

  323. Pamela – How did you manage to fit so many untruths and half-truths in one paragraph? Hint … linking to HuffPo is not evidence of anything other than end-stage BDS.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:16 pm

  324. Colin Powell wussed out as secretary of state and he has done so again by endorsing Obama instead of running Himself!!!! Should have stayed out of politics & stuck with the soldiering which he had my respect as!!

    Comment by James Williams (6ebacf) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:21 pm

  325. NY_chic wrote:
    Combat Cowgirl is NO ANGEL. If she served heroically, it should be its own reward. Period. The military is there to perform a JOB. The same way people who work for Sanitation do not have the market cornered on cleanliness, people serving in the military don’t have the market cornered on patriotism.
    ————————————————–

    ANYONE WHO SERVES, even in a non-combatant capacity, has earned a right of pride that no one who’s not served could ever understand. That goes doubly for you, a “college graduate”. Big fucking deal.

    And comparing any service member to the sanitation department belies your contempt of the men and women in uniform who “serve” this country. “Serve” is a word you obviously don’t understand. And how could you? Your snarky, snobby, false elitism reeks. You’ll never understand what makes a man or woman leave the relative safety and security of his life in America and set out for parts unknown, where enemies he or she’s never known have sworn to kill him and his family and loved ones, anyplace in the world, any time, and by any means.

    You and your kind may never understand that. Words alone cannot explain it. Only those who’ve felt it can understand it. Abd it’s these men and women who serve that has kept this country a Constitutional Republic for 232 years.

    I will admit, though, that with so much freedom being maintained by our brave men and women in uniform, there is a price to pay. And that price, bought in blood and suffering that spoiled brats and bitches would never have the guts to offer in sacrifice…has led to those spoiled brats and bitches using the freedoms bought and paid for by the blood of patriots…to bring America on a devastating collision course.

    You leave no doubt about which camp you are firmly ensconced in.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:24 pm

  326. Sad but true the very freedoms we enjoy may well be our ruin! Facism ,radical islam etc,etc all too well understand this to bad we can’t seem to get it!

    Comment by James Williams (6ebacf) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:32 pm

  327. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE, lol… what are you guys trying to prove with these convictions. Many presidents in the past have had radical ties… it never came back up after the campaign close, its just a scare tactic for McCain’ sheep. Have you noted that obama was only 17 when weatherman dispbanded & now ayers is a respected professor of education. This is just another way for McCain/Palin to utilize fear in their own campaign… as McCain did in the Keating scandals(though pardoned, he still took advantage of his power to intimidate investigators against the case while Keating paid him). I’d be more worried about this guy heading our economic problem than a bunch of variables pointing to Obama that nobody can seem to answer. McCains attacks on Obama are weak and pathetic just like his old raggedy ass. As for Religious discussions on here… religion is the opiate for the masses and the dumbfounding of humanity, religion, like mccain, utilizes fear in ethics… fuck ethics and look at statistics, and you wonder why our country is doing bad… because we spend all our money on countless departments that rely on ethics to survive (guess what a loyal community of likeminded individuals is called… fascism), we’re investing billions into organizations that haven’t statistically changed shit for decades and we still pour money into them (the war ons… drugs (bullshit), terrorism (bullshit), poverty (bullshit), SCARE TACTICS SCARE TACTICS SCARE TACTICS… the irony is that its the pussies shouting their mouths off that buy into this fear, aaaaand fuck everything up for everybody else, Obama is for limiting the budgets of these departments based on their conclusions… on monitoring government spending based on STATISTICS AND FACTS, so as to manage our gov budget more carefully, something we should’ve done a loooong time ago. P.S. Joe the Plumber… sit back down, shut the fuck up… and let a TAXPAYING CITIZEN with AN EDUCATION… and THE MOTIVATION AND ENDURANCE to actually ACT on taking up their business speak their mind. That was the most feeble attempt for votes I’ve ever seen in politics.

    Comment by Uneducated Rednecks for McCain (3b9d17) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:33 pm

  328. Uneducated Rednecks for McCain

    We should just bow and submit. That would make it easier, no?

    I guess Baracky has made the line-item veto Constitutional.

    BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL RACISTS, or something like that. Good Allah.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:35 pm

  329. NY_chic;

    You have no idea what “patriotism” is. None at all. Your ‘patriotism’ is wedded to the maniacal, marxism of your method acting messiah, obama.

    Your ‘patriotism’ has no values except what feels good or seems right today. Your ‘patriotism’ isn’t to any moral or ethical creed. Like so many other subversives of the hard left, your ‘patriotism’ is based on what feels good or seems right today, or which way the wind is blowing.

    Had you been in Paris June 1940 when the Nazi’s took over I have no doubt you’d have been sleeping with them, plural, within a week. Maybe less.

    That is your ‘patriotism’. Anyway the wind blows. I’ve seen your kind a thousand times the world over. All talk. But when the rubber hits the road, all that talk goes out the window. You’ll sell your ‘patriotism’ to the highest bidder.

    Tell us, were the murderous islamofascists who attacked and killed your countrymen and women wrong or right to do that? YES OR NO?

    Tell us, do you think ‘America had it coming’, and the men who attacked America on 9/11/2001 were ‘justified’? YES OR NO?

    Tell us, do you think America should reduce it’s support of Israel, and provide arms to the Palestinians? YES OR NO?

    We’d like to hear your answers.

    Regards,
    ML

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:40 pm

  330. @ “Uneducated Rednecks for McCain”
    - Wall of text – check
    - Lots of SCARE CAPS – check
    - Multiple use of ellipses … check
    - Crude language use – check
    - Use of “statistics and facts” (as if) – check

    Bonus points for “war ons” – rhymes with morons. :)

    What was it someone said? “Downward rhetorical spiral” – yeah, that’s it. Obama is going to have to have an interpreter next to the sign language chick who is translating Presidential fiats into txt for Kos-addled minions.

    Comment by carlitos (e833de) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:43 pm

  331. Some poor lunatic said:
    ayers is a respected professor of education

    Just WHO is he respected by? The radical left. The hard left. The left out. The jihadist leftists. The left my brain at home.

    So…we have leftist radicals endorsing leftist radicals. That’s not a sign of respect. That’s a sign of “I left all my reason at the door of reverend wright’s ‘church’”.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:45 pm

  332. It is easy to be a Democrat today, all you have to do is believe that an unrepentant terrorist is a respected citizen, and that Sarah Palin is not.

    The flatness of the world, and Sasquatch are just bonus points.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:48 pm

  333. Some Quick Facts
    1)The Socialism is not helping our kids’ education or trying to keep our citizens a life(healthcare) with our taxes. The socialism is Sending our tax money to Arabian Deserts or any other part of word that cost many American lifes and Creates terrorists heaven countries.
    If that money was just given to any people in needs in USA , these people would have put back that money in the market, and we would never have Economic` problem now.
    2) Obama affiliation with a very well respected professor is criticized harshly but, Mccain being on a real terrorist organization board that killed thousands of people in south America is very normal???

    3)Palins life are all full of lies and dishonest behaviors comparing to Obamas .They (Mr/mrs Palin) were member of a party that was trying to split USA by taking away Alaska, and surprisingly that never was unpatriotic but Obama belonging black church was very unpatriotic.?

    4)Success in Iraq that Mccain is talking about it is a total lie, our tax money that we don’t want to spend for our kids education and our citizens life; is handed to Insurgents (the cute name for terrorists who killed most of our troops) in Iraq.
    Now we are giving over 50,000 terrorists(insurgents) regular salary of around $500 per month, that way they will not attack our troops? That is the success Mccain is talking about in Iraq now.
    5) The voter fraud story about ACORN was made by GOP , so while media and Democrats pay attention ACORN, Republican can do all the frauds they can. They are really good at that, remember last two elections.
    I’m shocked how Media, and Democrats are drawn to these republican made stories, such as Joe the PureLier and Acorn etc

    Comment by Fred Willson (2061ee) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:56 pm

  334. g business has too many tax breaks. But taxing ’small businesses’ extra on earnings over $250,000 is a play directly from the karl marx handbook.

    -When you say taxing “extra’ how much is extra? Second, why didn’t YOUR GUY McCain refute the statement made over and over and over again that this would mean less than 5% of businesses? Why didn’t he say to Obam’s face that this was inaccurate and what is the accurate figure then?

    Obama makes it sound like a big deal that he’s taxing “small businesses that make over $250,000 a year” but that’s smoke and mirrors. Two halfast carpenters can start a handyman business and be making more than $250,000 annually in 2 or 3 years. I know ’cause I did that.

    Hit hardest by obama’s wealth redistribution plan will be the mom ‘n pop shops and “micro businesses” of one or two guys. These by far are the folks making up the biggest component of Obama’s intended tax target. There are more businesses making (from zero) to $500,000 than there are businesses making up to that $10 million cutoff point I referenced.

    -What percentage of businesses are they? Wht percentage of businesses make more than a quarter of a million dollars net? What are they paying now vs what will they pay under Obama?

    So….the marxist messiah is gonna start his reign by sticking it to the largest business populace in the “small business” category. That’s great. Real Constitutional. NOT. It smacks of Marx’s redistribution of wealth plank in the Communist Manifesto.
    - You know one question I always have for Communists and Socialist. If you can’t trust the State to act honestly in a free market economy (capitalism), why would you trust them to distribute money to all fairly under socialism or to have control over all the resources under communism?
    I say that to say, I don’t truck with commies or socialists and I don’t carry their water. I need to hear more than a soundbite of “we’re going to spread the wealth around”. I need you to show me specific plans to make this nation a socialist one.

    Dubya has been a huge disappointment. Lots I could say about that.

    -Not so much. That’s the ugly girl you bought to the dance and that you will go home home with. “Conservatives” cannot disown Bush. You served as the footsoldiers. The Right Wing in this country fought a take no prisoners WAR against every other point of view and Bush was your standard bearer. You ruined people’s lives and careers when they tried to give people the heads up on him. Anyone that tried ever to say look, there’s something going on here was DESTROYED so bush could do what he did.Because of you, any critism of him was Anti-American “Bush Bashing”. You turned a blind eye to every attack on the Constitution. every time Bush told you something (“we’re only listening to terrorists’ phnoe calls and reading their emails”) and it turned out to be a lie (http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/those_who_sacrifice_liberty_fo.php)
    anyone who had anything to say was destroyed as a traitor to their country. So, if Bush disappointed you, don’t try and put him back in for four more years.

    I served around the world since the 50’s. You could never imagine in your wildest dreams what I’ve seen. I can tell you this, the muslim world has been building to an all out war with America since the 40’s. Obama won’t stop it, and in fact, he’s their Manchurian candidate. I don’t expect you to believe or understand this, but many years from now, when things are at their gravest, you’ll remember all that “we” on the other side have warned of and you’ll realize with much consternation that “we” were correct.
    —No hell no, i won’t because I know this: Nobody is killing their self to get to Saudi Arabia. Nobody’s dream is to make it in Baghdad because if they can make it there, they can make it anywhere. We are the country of the American dream. The only nation of these ideals in history, the greatest nation ever. Where you can rise from the filthiest slum to the greatest heights through your owqn ambition and hard work. The people inciting the terrorists have NOTHING to compare to that.
    The same way we sell ipods and music and jeans and teen angst, we can sell that too but your policy is not to even try because you’ve made the decison on your own that they won’t listen. Thats just dumb.

    Yes, Bush has made a lot of mistakes. Our current economic conditions are the result of democrats pushing for deregulation though. Dodd (D-CT) and Frank (D-NY) were pretty much on the payroll and passed every deregulation they could. CRA (Community Reinvestment Act)? Gimme a break. The economic meltdown has been 20 years in the making.
    —-Your ass. Your party is the party of deregulation and “let the market decide” and “free” trade for everybody. Our current economic conditions are the result of banks being leveraged 40 to 1 and speculation replacing actual value as the norm in trade and allowing lobbyists to head regulatory bodies. How hypocritical is it that on th eone hand you’re bullshitting the people with “the democrats are the party of big government and government intervention” and now in this argument (only) they are the wheeling dealing deregulators.

    You had the House, The senate and the Presdiency for SIX years. You fucked up and you’re fired.

    There’s plenty of blame to go around, not just dubya.

    —-But can we at least agree that as the executive in chief we are going to start with him?

    Electing obama is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. He promises “change”. Everyone thinks that means they’ll make an extra $50 or $100 a week, and that they’ll have free health care, and that they’ll have ipods, cell phones, and HDTV’s.
    —–No, every body thinks that means that since he’s not entrenched in the same political ruts as these guys that have been doing the same damned thing for 20 years, we are going to forge a new path and try new ways of doing things based on the facts on the ground.

    Everyone is living in a fantasy. The American people are too soft. Everyone here wants to have everything but no one wants to work for it. Obama will make it all right, they think. What Obama will do will be to change what everyone thought they would be getting.

    No one will be happy in the end.

    —–Starting with you, who doesn’t want to pay taxes. Give me a break. you have to pay taxes to support the infrastructure and federal services. you have to. nobody wants to do that. Everyone wants to pay nothing into the system but somehow its supposed to fight wars and build roads and develop technology and partner with private industry to support us in our role as the greatest superpower. My ass. You have to pay something. And , if you are making a quarter of a million dollars because of America, you owe something back.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:57 pm

  335. FROM SARAH WITH LOVE? …

    Is it possible that Russia is waiting in the wings to break an old treaty – and its Bill of Sale; in an age old plot designed to reclaim Alaska: after post subjugate slaves have made it profitable…with the help of breaded sleepers?

    Subversive possibilities are seldom perceived when asking for something, such as land for instance
    (the purchase of the land)… I know, I needn’t say it: the old adage [“BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU ASK FOR.”]

    “MAN – WHAT A PLAN…”

    What we do today is for our grandchildren and their children… What you think could have been Russia’s intentions when they sold us that plot of land in our backyard … (Alaska)? … “It could’ve well been, to no less benefit the children of Russia … and her children’s children.” You’d have to remember that it was initially, a Russian colony: Discerningly … ask when has Russia, ever, been known to sell anything without a hidden agenda? Sleeper-cell – possibly: A Russian master piece: Considering Sarah and Todd Palin’s timely ambitions, along with those of Joe Vogler’s, a bosom comrade in their treasonous ploy of secession could very well be evidence of a Russian infusion of (home grown terrorist), insurgents amongst us…at its best: latent, by design … In wake of incubation and the maturity of its trajectory… [Stalin’s legacy?] … Epitomized, surgical engagement – surely it would have done him proud… “STRETCHING…” No more so than the fundamentals of 911: Consider the following earmarks, if you will…
    [Joe Vogler, founder of the Alaska Independence Party who said: "I'm an Alaskan, not an American - (Russian … you think?), I've got no use for America or her damned institutions: the fires of hell are glaciers, compared to my hatred for the American Government.”] … These are not just the vessels of rants and misgivings that Sarah (“pals”) around with: “They are not just associates of Sarah Palin; they are Sarah’s family’s intimate comrades… “Sarah couldn’t be more explicit in – SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY.”… Her husband being a seven year vet of this treasonous echelon.]

    “This Palin couple will be equally complicit in the secession of Alaska from the United States: Giving perhaps mother Russia her cue, to step in and recognize Alaska’s rights to independence and self sovereignty – and in due course are more than willing to support and of course, protect at all cost.” Alaska, a new (Georgia): being one of Moscow’s, maybe original covert [pet projects].

    Are we really ready to allow a foolish old man to hand over our country and its top secret military capabilities to Russia, or any other sovereignty, or secessionist groups – domestic or foreign, through the likes of a Joe Vogler, Sarah and Todd Palin? “Who is this treasonous echelon?” A foreign incubation – the fruition…? A Russia’s Proxy VP, in the Oval Office? … “Forget about her being a heartbeat away from President…” “Oh, my God.” … A new Georgia on the horizon? Just what is the IQ, competency, threshold requirements for those whom are “supposing,” to be looking into such matters?

    I understand that Sarah spoke at this secessionist annual convention, as recent as this year: this isn’t guilt by association, as her recent inferences to Senator Obama’s past association would portend, with a Chicago Educator – her’s is the embracing of vehement and bosom camaraderie of a potential and dire catalyst instigation of the destruction of American Institutions…celebrated; in a ‘perverse’ manner. And not necessarily, premature… Alaska’s secession would result in the cutting of a main artery – which could be devastating if we are unable to alleviate our dependency on petrol, consumption.

    Equally reprehensible is the audacity of Senator McCain’s bogus queries of Senator Obama’s truthfulness when questioned about past acquaintances: as though he, himself, has somehow been issued a patent on the truth, he can’t “handle” the truth: The fact(s) of his birth having taken place in the Canal Zone, which belongs to Panama, and the last time I checked it is still in Panama: “This needs to be examined: in all probability it will refute the geography of his non-birth-right to ever run for President of the U.S.” Constitutionally, one cannot arbitrarily declare a proxy birth (by association), to be a U.S. Citizen, not to mention birth rights, unless of course everyone in your family just happens to be well connected … utterly, deplorable.

    Panama does not belong to the U.S., thusly foreign soil, having acquired independence in 1903, though, nuanced until 1979, when finally assumed sovereignty over (its) Canal Zone: being under the protection of the U.S. does not ensue birth rights; if that be the case; everyone in Panama have these entitlements – Manuel Noriega, would likely have been the 37th President, as opposed to Richard Nixon, whom resigned under threat of impeachment: or as likely as any of the other socialites, of perhaps South Korea, West Berlin, and yes, Baghdad… And to speak of McCain, himself … a silhouette of everything gone bad… Any such provinces have to be possessions of the U.S., e.g. (Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.), to benefit claimants.

    Whether this would have been a stock narrative or palatable euphemism – attributed to Aristotle or Nostradamus, the mapping of events (time), does what it does, to which; we are occasioned – made fortunate to understand. Cutting to the chase – it is apparent when events come full circle, and “that, they must.” To keep it simple: Arizona, the forty eighth State; McCain’s – Alaska, the forty ninth; Sarah Palin’s – Hawaii, the fiftieth; Barack Obama’s: These three States, undeniably, joined the Union in numerical order; foretelling this window of significant change in our “would be, history,” if we did nothing to affect it, on our behalf. To do nothing to change it…would be devastating: with Sarah, the forty ninth State, uniquely in the center – around whom, not only (Barack), but our very nation is force to pivot – [timely], celebrates its forty ninth birthday: coming full circle in her cyclical motion of relativity…” “NOT A COINCIDENT.” … Foot notes, respectively:

    Bombs will only foster fragile treaties – which will be violated, time and again; because the problems are left intact… Unless, we find leaders with the ability to communicate the essence of peace; we will continue to be dispassionate and blood ridden franchises of epic (world), proportion, literally.

    When Sarah Palin says that, she can see Russia from where she is standing – “PLEASE, BELIEVE HER.” She and the secessionist cohorts no doubt, keep a candle burning, via Moscow; and in the interest of National Security, they may see Russia in more ways than we may care to imagine…

    (BARACK OBAMA)… “A blessing … that has never been in disguise.” Alas, “mavericks,” … A dire conclusion.

    Comment by Dino (8dfd4e) — 10/20/2008 @ 6:59 pm

  336. NYC_Chic, claiming that Obama is not entrenched in the same political ruts is about the most hilarious thing you’ve written. Obama is a product of Chicago machine politics. He’s been in the pocket of the same interests ( including Fannie Mae lobbyists fighting regulation of Fannie Mae ) as every other Democratic politician.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:01 pm

  337. Sheesh, the nuts come out of the woodwork.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:06 pm

  338. You guys should really write books. Your blog commenting is a bit … tedious. For the reader, I mean. I’m sure it’s cathartic for you. But for the reader. The READER!

    Comment by carlitos (e833de) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:06 pm

  339. I have a question for all of you who think the “Ayers connection” is a serious issue that must be explored. How many of you would like to be defined as the persons you were 10, 20, or if the case may be 30 years ago? Let’s get real here for a minute. The 1960′s were a time of tremendous violence. Our nation was seriously divided over Viet Nam and some people chose to voice their opinions in violent ways. Bill Ayers chose to be affiliated with just such a group.

    Now we can jump up on soapboxes and condemn him as a terrorist for what he did nearly 40 years ago. In doing so, we completely ignore what he has been doing for over 30 years: lawfully, peacefully, and systematically working to bring equity in education to impoverished school children.

    It’s time to take a really good look at that. Perhaps the indignance towards what Bill Ayers did as a young man serves well to distract people away from the swirling riptide of disdain towards bringing economic and education equity to those who need it most.

    So as you’re pontificating, think about this. Every time that you and other people seek to tell who Sen. Obama is in half truths and faulty logic; every time you and others who want to associate Sen. Obama with terrorists, racists, and other unAmerican types of people; every time you and others who try to derail Sen. Obama over some superficial, poorly reasoned “issue”, you speak volumes about who we are are Americans. The next time you jump up on your soapbox, remember that we are at war with not one but two nations that are racially, culturally, religiously and economically different from us. Remember that the world is watching us and noting that we are the only ones who seem to ignore the racim, classism, and anti intellectualism that does permeate the fabric of our society.

    Go forth, think critically as you pontificate.

    Comment by Riversistah (adf02c) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:10 pm

  340. These trolls actually make lovie seem a bit less mendoucheous. Just a bit.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:11 pm

  341. Riversistah, that’s amazingly stupid. Ayers himself has been quoted in articles addressing the issue you raise.

    And guess what? He is not repentant.

    And let me tell you something else, in what I did when I was younger, 40 years ago, no one died.

    Ayers was involved in a terrorist organization whose activities resulted in dead innocent people.

    Think critically? How about you think at all.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:13 pm

  342. How many of you would like to be defined as the persons you were 10, 20, or if the case may be 30 years ago?

    If I made bombs that were designed to target Fort Dix, the Pentagon, etc… and they wound up killing innocent people, I would expect that might just define me for some time to come. Espectially if I am unrepentant.

    lawfully, peacefully, and systematically working to bring equity in education to impoverished school children.

    He does not even say he is doing that. He says that he is attempting to indoctrinate the next generation to small-c communism. And hanging out with Chavez.

    swirling riptide of disdain towards bringing economic and education equity to those who need it most.

    There is no such “swirling riptide”, except in your imagination.

    we are the only ones who seem to ignore the racim, classism, and anti intellectualism that does permeate the fabric of our society.

    Does this pass for reasoned discourse amongst the Left?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:16 pm

  343. NY_chic said:
    “My husband is EMS/FDNY Paramedic and he’ll be home shortly. I have about seven friends in the NYPD. And not a single one of them is voting mccain. Because HIS POLICIES suck.”

    Your husband is voting for a man who admits in his book “Dreams of My Father” that his childhood hereos were Malcolm X and Louis Farrakahn?

    Your husband is voting for a man with a 35-40 year past full of documented relationships, associations, and business and political dealings with Muslims and anti-American factions here in the USA?

    Your husband is voting for a man who’s said, publicly, “If the political winds should change I will stand with the Muslims”?

    Your husband is going to vote for a man who by all indications of the past and present has sympathy and political leanings towards the murderous muslim thugs that killed his EMT, NYPD, NYFD, and other service buddies, plus thousands of innocent men, women and children on 9/11/2001?

    That’s astounding! Absolutely astounding!

    I plan to run this blog and your entries on it past the New York Post. Maybe they’ll be able to find out why, if at all, a NYC EMT would vote for a guy who’s more muslim than American.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:18 pm

  344. Gee, golly … it must be rough to be remembered as an unrepentant domestic terrorist when all you did was make a few nail bombs that happened to kill a couple people, and destroy some peoples property, all so you could make some political point.

    Riversistah – I am fairly comfortable in calling someone that kills people a killer. If you bomb people you are a bomber. Some things just do not wash off quite as easily. You are a big person to have forgiven his actions, especially since he has not sought forgiveness.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:19 pm

  345. ML

    would vote for a guy who’s more muslim than American.

    This really is not called for. The Leftists can make asses of themselves. No need to join them in doing so.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:21 pm

  346. NY_chic;

    You have no idea what “patriotism” is.

    Patriotism is the love of your country and I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I would efend my country from all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. Domestic like you asholes who wrap yourselves in a flag while you support peole being put in “Free Speech Zones” because they disgree with th epresident. While you support the “Patriot Act” and trcak every single dollar even though my money says its good for debts public an PRIVATE. While you empower this governemnt to read its citizens personal email and monitor its phone calls and put cameras up everywhere like this was some kind of banana republic and not the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    None at all. Your ‘patriotism’ is wedded to the maniacal, marxism of your method acting messiah, obama.
    -So I’ll say it then. Fuck Barack Obama. Fuck him. If one of you loonies kill him tomorrow, it doesn’t change the fact that we need to alter our present course and bring in new leadership. If Barack Obama died tomorrow, i still wouldn’t vote for McCain because his policies SUCK.

    Your ‘patriotism’ has no values except what feels good or seems right today. Your ‘patriotism’ isn’t to any moral or ethical creed. Like so many other subversives of the hard left, your ‘patriotism’ is based on what feels good or seems right today, or which way the wind is blowing.
    -I’m on the HARD left- What the fuck are you talking about? I wear a skirt every day,am against abortion and live by the Old Testament but I’m on the hard left. This is what I mean by the talking points. You are a radical right wing Fascist. There are so many of you that you blend right in but you are a right winger hell bent on destroying America. You’re probably the Commandant of your Citizen’s Spying Squad or something.

    Had you been in Paris June 1940 when the Nazi’s took over I have no doubt you’d have been sleeping with them, plural, within a week. Maybe less.

    —–I’ve been with ONE man my entire life. Your mother, your daughters, your wife can say that. You can’t even say that. I’ve bet youve been with more than a couple yourself.

    That is your ‘patriotism’. Anyway the wind blows. I’ve seen your kind a thousand times the world over. All talk. But when the rubber hits the road, all that talk goes out the window. You’ll sell your ‘patriotism’ to the highest bidder.
    —-Bullshit. I travel and every where I go, right is still right, wrong is still wrong. This is the greatest nation in the owrld but sometimes it’s leaders fuck up. For six years, the republicans had the House, the Senate and the presidency and have fucked this nation up almost beyond recognition.

    Tell us, were the murderous islamofascists who attacked and killed your countrymen and women wrong or right to do that? YES OR NO?
    —Islamo Fascists. That’s rich. And don’t ever forget, those people who dies that day, when they left home to go to work to earn their daily bread and ended up jumping out of windows without a chance of survival WERE NEW YORKERS!!! They were liberal, blue state New Yorkers. And we should still be investigating EACH AND EVER SINGLE detail of 9/11 right now this very day. Any and everybody that had anything to do with 9/11 should be burned alive in my view.

    Tell us, do you think ‘America had it coming’, and the men who attacked America on 9/11/2001 were ‘justified’? YES OR NO?

    -No, that was absolutely unjustified and every single person responsible for the deaths of my fellow NYers needs killing. Period.

    Tell us, do you think America should reduce it’s support of Israel, and provide arms to the Palestinians? YES OR NO?

    -I have no idea what our support of Israel actually entails to know if we should reduce it or not. I would never give anyone a blank check or blanket immunity. We should support Israel when they are in line with our best interests. the palestinians should be treated like human beings and we should support them in keeping with our best interests.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:21 pm

  347. Riversistah – How many of you would like your Presidential candidates to tell the truth about their past. Why does Baracky have an inability until the pressure gets too great to do so.

    He did it over his relationship with Tony Rezko and the campaign contributions he received.

    He did it with Jeremiah Wright and TUCC

    He is doing it as we speak with William Ayers. He is airbrushing and revising his website to reflect information which has surfaced that he though he had successfully buried.

    He is doing it as we speak with his long-term relationship with ACORN. He is airbrushing and revising his website to reflect information which has surfaced that he though he had successfully buried.

    Why does Obama have an aversion to telling the truth?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:22 pm

  348. After eight years of failed republican misery
    any democratic administration will be a breath of fresh air.

    Comment by Andrei Bostan (7796cb) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:22 pm

  349. I think Ayers is a good guy.
    He never killed anyone, only made some small bombs designed to draw attention against a horrendous crime against humanity.
    The only guys who died were his own followers, when manufacturing one of those devices.
    I don’t condone those tactics, neither does Barack nor Ayers at the present time.
    On the contrary, coward Mc. Cain was dropping bombs on unarmed civilians from the safety of the skies, and was so dumb to crash his nth. plane.
    Then the war criminal ratted on his buddies to obtain perks from the Vietnamese, who knew he was the son of the admiral.
    Whom do you prefer?

    Comment by Attack dog (3ea233) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:23 pm

  350. NYC_Chic, evidently your NYPD friends are ignorant of Obama’s actions in undermining police officers in Illinois.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:26 pm

  351. NYC Chic – Ethics complaints were filed against Fitzgerald for his performance in the Libby case. I am not aware of any of them getting anywhere, but I don’t know if they have all been resolved.

    Since you claim only fat white women support McCain, does that mean just the bony ass white women support Obama?

    You say you went to college after high school. Did you graduate?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:26 pm

  352. Attack dog, you seem to be just full of despicable lies today. You’ve lied about Ayers’ lack of repentance, and you’ve lied about McCain.

    You are the perfect Obama voter.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:27 pm

  353. NY_chic said:
    if you are making a quarter of a million dollars because of America, you owe something back.

    I don’t owe you or any of you brain dead, anti-American, pro-Marxist, obamazombies anything. You’re the one who wants to receive financial gain from the labor of others. Listen up: IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. I and millions of others will not be robbed by government socialism to support the lazy, snobby, snarky, welfare or elite classes.

    The income tax amendment was never properly ratified. Didn’t they teach you that in college, you asshole!

    And I pay taxes even thou! Never said I didn’t pay them. You’re the one desperate for everyone else to pay taxes. Obviously you’re a low level asshole enforcer for the obamanation to snitch on those you think haven’t “paid their taxes”.

    And get this, you stupid butch, or bitch, or both….America isn’t about “giving back” in the form of letting the govt steal what I or anyone else has earned, just to give it to snot nosed pukes like you that don’t know the difference between shit and granola.

    Have a nice life, stupid.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:28 pm

  354. Attack dog, your mom called. It’s curfew.

    Comment by carlitos (e833de) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:30 pm

  355. NY_chic said:
    “—–I’ve been with ONE man my entire life. Your mother, your daughters, your wife can say that. You can’t even say that. I’ve bet youve been with more than a couple yourself.”

    Now that’s funny!

    But back to the question. Being with your father doesn’t count.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:32 pm

  356. carlitos;

    It’s not 10 pm yet…an’ my mom’s been gone a long time.

    But thanks for your concern.

    Regards,
    ML

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:34 pm

  357. “They were liberal, blue state New Yorkers.”
    -I know many conservative who died that day BITCH. Their party affiliation does not matter. They were Americans or were in America. That is what matters.

    And we should still be investigating EACH AND EVER SINGLE detail of 9/11 right now this very day.
    -Because you still don’t believe 19 guys with boxcutters did it?

    I’ve been with ONE man my entire life.
    -Vibrator nicknames don’t count.

    You are whacked in the head!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:35 pm

  358. He did it over his relationship with Tony Rezko and the campaign contributions he received.

    daleyrocks – He answered 8 questions !!! eleventy

    Attack dog appears to want to win the award for the most vile screed of the day.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:35 pm

  359. #

    NYC_Chic, claiming that Obama is not entrenched in the same political ruts is about the most hilarious thing you’ve written. Obama is a product of Chicago machine politics. He’s been in the pocket of the same interests ( including Fannie Mae lobbyists fighting regulation of Fannie Mae ) as every other Democratic politician.

    Comment by SPQR — 10/20/2008 @ 7:01 pm

    —SPQR: What? are you supposed to be The Big Guns? LoL. So according to you, Obama has loads of experience then. He’s been running things at least 20 years, since according to your fellow right wing radical zealot, thats how long in the making the finacial crisis has been. He’s not some new guy that just came along, he’s part of the machine, all entrenched in ruts and what not. A peon of the all-mighty poor in this country, the real power brokers.
    Okay….

    The democrats are always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in search of the mythological Middle American Undecided Independent voter. They bend over backward trying to take the higher road and the Republicans stick it to them every time. Even now, they can’t even get Rove to comply with a subpoena, let alone change the course established in the six years you all had control of the house, the senate and the presidency. So don’t give me that.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:41 pm

  360. The kind of intellectual honesty I’d love to see from Obama and the astroturf trollers on this site:

    A democrat and newspaper columnist, Orson Scott Card, who gets it and takes on his own party and other 3-monkeys columnists.

    http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html

    how about responding to this stuff, Ms.Tokyo Rose, Peter, Oiram, Leviticus and assorted other liars, obama apologists and enablers????

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:42 pm

  361. If Ayers was such a terrorist, he would be in jail. Right now Ayers is a professor at college. You cannot teach with a felony record. So, prove that Ayers had done something wrong. Ayers wished he could have done more. What does he mean with this statement? He meant more in helping to end Vietnam War sooner with less lost of life. Martin Luther King Jr. was considered a socialist, a communist, and a terrorist during McCain’s earlier years because he was against the Vietnam War. Ayers should sue you and McCain for defamation of character. He has not been convicted of any terrorist crime. If you dislike Obama, disagree with him on policy. But to say don’t vote for this person because he worked on a charity 40 years after he protested a War that ended almost 40 years ago is ridiculous. Obama was 8 years old during this time. When you go to work at a company or anywhere you do not do background searches on you colleagues. This was a bipartisan charity headed by a Republican that worked under Reagan. Guilt by association is so wrong and I bet you call yourself a Christian. Being a Christian doesn’t keep you from hating or lying on your neighbor. If your best friend commits a crime, should you be held responsible or be held guilty by association for that crime? In my short lifetime I had associated with murders, rapist, and thieves, but like Obama, I wasn’t friends with these people. They committed these crimes before I knew them or after I had stopped associating with them. I bet if I do a background search on all of your friends, family, and everyone you had worked with on a job I can find some questionable characters too. Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:44 pm

  362. NYC_Chic, so we’ve learned how quickly you abandon an argument. Not that you evidently understood your own argument …

    As for taking the high road, NYC_Chic, that’s been a pretty brazen lie. Watching the Democratic primary fight put paid to that BS long ago. Now that we see Democrats working attacks on Cindy McCain and attacking Sarah Palin for not aborting her child, we know that you have all of the dishonesty we expect from an incoherent Obama supporter.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:44 pm

  363. shuntasay, you are showing your own ignorance of Ayers, not ours. Ayers was released because of FBI misconduct, not his innocence.

    Obama was not 8 years old when he chose to associate with, and become the political protege of, Bill Ayers.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:46 pm

  364. Daley Rocks: Watch your fucking mouth. You’re the bitch. You backed down from th eargument and now you want to call names. Your mother’s a bitch and so’s your daughters. Your wife is a cunt like McCains.

    “They were liberal, blue state New Yorkers.”
    -I know many conservative who died that day BITCH. Their party affiliation does not matter. They were Americans or were in America. That is what matters.

    -Now, after years of Liberal being a dirty word and almost synonymous with “traitor’ because of the right wing in this country, you want to hold hands and sing kumbaya. My ass!!! You know many conservatives that died that day, you’re a FUCKING liar.

    And we should still be investigating EACH AND EVER SINGLE detail of 9/11 right now this very day.
    -Because you still don’t believe 19 guys with boxcutters did it?

    -No because regardless if 19 guys with box cutters did it, where were our air defenses? where are the people who financed them? where are the rest of the people in their cell? Where’s Osama bin Laden?
    Too many things went wrong that day for it to be swept under the rug, just like that.

    I’ve been with ONE man my entire life.
    -Vibrator nicknames don’t count.

    Tell me all about vibrators. You’d know.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:47 pm

  365. I think we’ve had enough of NYC_Chic’s foul little mouth, haven’t we?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:49 pm

  366. If Ayers was such a terrorist, he would be in jail. Right now Ayers is a professor at college. You cannot teach with a felony record. So, prove that Ayers had done something wrong. Ayers wished he could have done more. What does he mean with this statement? He meant more in helping to end Vietnam War sooner with less lost of life. Martin Luther King Jr. was considered a socialist, a communist, and a terrorist during McCain’s earlier years because he was against the Vietnam War. Ayers should sue you and McCain for defamation of character. He has not been convicted of any terrorist crime. If you dislike Obama, disagree with him on policy. But to say don’t vote for this person because he worked on a charity with someone who 40 years ago protested a war is ridiculous. Obama was 8 years old during this time. When you go to work at a company or anywhere do you do background searches on you colleagues? This was a bipartisan charity headed by a Republican that worked under Reagan. Guilt by association is so wrong and I bet you call yourself a Christian. Being a Christian doesn’t keep you from hating or lying on your neighbor. If your best friend commits a crime, should you be held responsible or be held guilty by association for that crime? In my short lifetime I had associated with murders, rapist, and thieves, but like Obama, I wasn’t friends with these people. They committed these crimes before I knew them or after I had stopped associating with them. I bet if I do a background search on all of your friends, family, and everyone you had worked with on a job I can find some questionable characters too. Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:49 pm

  367. Cool, now we’re spamming.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:50 pm

  368. I know that Ayers was release because of the prosecutor. But think about it, if they would had filed charges again against him. All the things that McCain has accused Ayers of, the government can find something to charge him with. They can file charges for state crimes or federal charges.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:53 pm

  369. Serious clean-up at 364.

    NYC_Chic, you lost the reader with your vile blast in the first paragraph. Who cares what else you have to say. You revealed everything we need to know about you.

    Comment by Dana (658c17) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:53 pm

  370. But think about it, if he was guilty of any crime they would had filed charges again against him. All the things that McCain has accused Ayers of doing, the government can find something to charge against him. They can file charges for state crimes or federal charges.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:55 pm

  371. I. Who cares about Bill Ayers?
    - Barach Obama apparently does, for when he was asked on national television about Ayers Sen. Obama described him as “just a guy in the neighborhood…that I was on a charitable board with… a college professor.
    - The following day or so a campaign spokesman added that they new each other because “their kids went to school together”.
    - Just one tiny question for the Obamamites out there who claim that the association between Ayers and Obama is no big deal: If there is no fire there, why is someone trying to put it out?
    Comment by Tcobb — 10/20/2008 @ 11:48 am

    II. Why does Barach Obama care about Bill Ayers?
    - We can only guess. You would think that a presidential candidate would like to point out that he served as chairman of the board of a foundation that distributed $150 million or so on educational reform. But all Obama said was that they served on a charitable board together, not that they collaborated on this significant project. In fact, Sen. Obama was so eager dismiss any connection with Mr. Ayers that he failed to mention they served on several boards together and that Mr. Ayers had an early role in his political career.
    - An early criticism of Sen. Obama was that he had no executive experience. One might have thought he would have referenced oversight of that $150 million, but he instead appealed to the “running of his campaign”. Seeing that his campaign expenditures dwarf $150 million, perhaps it was no loss to him.

    III. Who else cares about Bill Ayers?- Apparently a whole lot of people who support and follow the instructions of Sen. Obama.
    - Patterico must’ve really struck a little close to home because this thread is sure bringing out the “grounds crew.” Comment by CW Desiato — 10/20/2008 @ 4:48 pm
    - Would the trolls be so kind as to enlighten us from whence they came? I know Beldar had a recent post over at Hugh Hewitt’s blog mentioning Patrick Frey’s chiding of the dog trainer LAT for its lies about the Obama-Ayers linkage. Comment by madmax333 — 10/20/2008 @ 5:13 pm
    - Patterico – Did somebody declare a Carnival of the Clueless over here this afternoon? … Why are they scared about truth of the relationship between Ayers and Obama actually getting reported? If there is nothing to it they wouldn’t be worried. Maybe another important action alert got sent out by the campaign. Comment by daleyrocks — 10/20/2008 @ 1:41 pm

    IV. Why would they care?
    - Because he told them to. Remember he was quoted not long ago as telling his supporters to “get in the faces”. This was well demonstrated when Obama supporters overwhelmed a Chicago radio station with phone calls and emails when they had Stanley Kurtz on, who was researching the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
    - “Get in their faces”? That doesn’t sound like the person who campaigned about being “post-partisan”, and “being able to pull people together”.
    - Well, that was the same candidate who promised to work to hold down the cost of presidential campaigns and promised to take public funding and live by those rules. He hasn’t been seen for awhile now. In fact, people must have forgotten about him- how else can you explain people who once wanted “post-partisan politics” now eager to “get in people’s faces” and make life hell for Joe the plumber, whose only crime was asking a question after his playing football was interrupted.

    V. It doesn’t make sense for anybody, let alone Obama, to be concerned over something that happened more than 35 years ago, does it?
    - Well, the issue isn’t just what Ayers did 35 years ago, but what he believes up to the present.
    From Ayres’ speech in Venezuela praising Hugo Chavez:
    Luis has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle—I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane. Thanks to Mike K — 10/20/2008 @ 1:35 pm (Ed. comment: Mike K. Left off the “Viva la Revolucion” part)

    VI. Anything else?
    - Yes, while I have seen some new names with thoughtful posts, such as fdcol63 — 10/20/2008 @ 11:27 am, kelatious — 10/20/2008 @ 5:58 pm, and Molon Labe — 10/20/2008 @ 6:08 pm (when exercising control of his language), the overall amount of obfuriating and rude commentary that has descended on us today makes it a challenge to wade through it all to find the worthwhile stuff. I request someone to color code the posts so we can allow freedom of speech and freedom to ignore to peacefully coexist, in a post-partisan kind of way.

    VII. A Postscript on Race:
    Charles Pickering was nominated for a District Federal Judge position and was blocked by Sen. Schumer and other Democrats over false allegations of “racial insensitivity”. The brother of slain civil-rights leader Medgar Evers went out of his way to make clear that Charles Pickering was known as a fair and just man decades ago in the south even at risk of violence to himself and his family, even before their was a civil-rights movement. In my opinion the Democrats lost whatever moral standing they had to speak about race and racism that day. Playing partisan politics was more important than honoring one of the unsung heroes who did the right thing.

    Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:56 pm

  372. shuntasay, I did think about it. But more importantly, unlike you, I actually know the history. You clearly do not.

    The charges were dismissed because of FBI misconduct. Not because of Ayers’ innocence. Today, all of the statutes of limitation have expired.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:57 pm

  373. NYC Chic – I wasn’t aware you were making an argument. I thought you were just spreading lies.

    Which of your lies do you claim I backed away from?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:58 pm

  374. Everybody here is talking like business expert, and
    I like to look at life like a business too.
    Definitely USA Presidency will be the CEO of the Biggest organization in the Earth.
    I’m just wondering if in real life,even a single Fortune 500 company will even consider McCain over Obama for the CEO position of their Company? I’m serious about this question, maybe we should ask Fortune 500 companies to choose our President?

    McCain Only qualification is to be a soldier in a very unnecessary and lost war (Wietnam). Also to be a prisoner in that crazy war which cost us many of American lives and our Prestige in the world .What a great qualification for to be CEO of the biggest organization in the earth!It seems like Iraq War Created enough CEO for all the companies in USA for rest of our life folks!
    I love and respect all the soldiers serve for this country , However, that still doesn’t mean all of them should be our CEOs. If they like to be soldier they should stay at the work they do best, unless they are generals etc.
    Obama in other hand, was raised by a single mom, but he was still able go to best schools and get a marvelous education . Even though with some disadvantages he was born with, He was able to climb on top of to Democratic party ticket on his own.
    I’m sorry but there is No comparison here,which one to choose from folks.

    Comment by Fred (2061ee) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:58 pm

  375. Fred, your comment has to be a joke, right? It is inconceivable that you are that ignorant of the men’s respective resumes.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:59 pm

  376. If Ayers was such a terrorist, he would be in jail.

    Apparently you have not bothered to acquaint yourself with even the basic facts of this issue.

    But to say don’t vote for this person because he worked on a charity with someone who 40 years ago protested a war is ridiculous.

    You say protested a war. I say made bombs that killed innocent people. Tomato, unrepentant domestic terrorist.

    NYC_chic is aggressively mendoucheous.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 7:59 pm

  377. No one is trying to put out a fire. Have you ever had someone to spread lies about you and its nothing you can do about it? A lie spreads quicker than a fire, but the truth moves like a sloth.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:02 pm

  378. Ok. I abandon arguments but your friend never answers anything I say, he just tries to play word games and 20 questions. That being the case, lets go back to the drawing board:

    For the record, Mccain said jobs are being outsourced because people won’t work for $50 an hour, the hell with the life of the mother should things go wrong in the delivery room, regardless whether she has other children or any other circumstances and Iraq is a safe and stable country. He also said th middle class are those who make less than $5,000,000 a year and he is going to tax health insurance benefits.

    In spite of this, you said we should vote for him because:

    You also said: “Now that we see Democrats working attacks on Cindy McCain and attacking Sarah Palin for not aborting her child,”

    -hilarious!!!!
    That is really funny. Cindy Mccain forged signatures, committed identity fraud and STOLE medications from a charity she was entrusted with and she’s a victim? No, that bitch is a criminal. I have no sympathy for junkies or what they do to get their drugs and her ass should have been locked up for it.

    As fas as Sarah palin being atatcked for not having an abortion, I’ve never had an abortion and would never have one so I don’t have to carry water for the abortionists. That’s not my problem with her. My problem with her is that she lies. She WAS for the bridge to nowhere. She didn’t sell the plane on ebay. She ran her small town into a deficit and she has sought more earmarks for her oil rich state than any other other state. And her husband belonged to a group that wants to destroy this Union and secede. She was keynote speaker at one of their fucntions. WTF? Her 17 year old daughteris a pregnant, high school drop out. Excuse me? After teen pregancy has been blamed for every thing from poverty to crime and welfare dependency, we are going to put in as a role model a woman who couldn’t teach her own daughter better? Really?

    Those are my problems with Palin. Babies are god’s greatest gift and I support the women who are strong and intelligent enough in this society to become mothers despite all the propaganda so don’t try that either.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:02 pm

  379. maybe we should ask Fortune 500 companies to choose our President?

    Please. That would ensure that Baracky would not be President.

    Climbing to the top of Democratic power politics is the pinnacle of qualifications in the Leftist world. Sad.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:03 pm

  380. Fred – How many lawyers do you see as CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Lawyers usually suck as businessmen.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:03 pm

  381. Ayers never nor did the Weather underground ever took credit about the bombing that killed those people.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:03 pm

  382. He was able to climb on top of to Democratic party ticket on his own.

    Seriously? This sort of naievete is just dangerous. No pol from Chicago climbs to the top on their own. Become informed. It will help.

    Comment by Dana (658c17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:03 pm

  383. NYC_Chic, you wrote several lies in your comment. How ironic.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:04 pm

  384. He also said th middle class are those who make less than $5,000,000 a year

    Lie

    Her 17 year old daughteris a pregnant, high school drop out. Excuse me? After teen pregancy has been blamed for every thing from poverty to crime and welfare dependency, we are going to put in as a role model a woman who couldn’t teach her own daughter better? Really?

    I love it when the Left gets all judge-y …

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:05 pm

  385. If Ayers was such a terrorist, he would be in jail.”

    That’s your reasoning for the guy’s bombing?? And his admitted desire to do more? It’s like if O.J. was a murderer, they would’ve put him in jail…

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:05 pm

  386. Okay, everyone who thinks that Obama is guilty by association, do a background check of your friends, family, and all the people you every worked with.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:06 pm

  387. Ayers never nor did the Weather underground ever took credit about the bombing that killed those people.

    There is an all-out war for most mendoucheous comment of the day.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:06 pm

  388. shuntashay, you know, you should go back to the nonsense about Obama being 8 years old. It was the least incoherent argument you’ve made so far.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:07 pm

  389. Ayers never said that he killed anyone.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:07 pm

  390. shuntasay – In all of my life, I have never met with someone who made bombs that killed innocent people, never went to their house, never shook hands with them, and never had the opportunity to work on any Boards with anyone that had done so. You act as though it is common to have a domestic terrorist as an associate. I would venture to say that the vast majority of Americans have never, and would never associate with anyone like that.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:08 pm

  391. shuntashay, here’s a hint: terrorists’ word has little credibility.

    Here’s another hint: What do you share with Bill Ayers?

    Answer: lack of credibility.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:09 pm

  392. Dana, I don’t give a fuck about your feelings. He calls me a bitch because he’s at a loss for talking points and I should turn the other cheek and what, appeal to the Middle American, Undecided, “Independent” voter?

    He knows thats the kind of language he understands and he moved right on after that.

    Just like the other asshole who in the end could only threaten to go tattle on my husband to the New York post (WTF!!!!) for not voting for McCain.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:09 pm

  393. “After teen pregancy has been blamed for every thing from poverty to crime and welfare dependency, we are going to put in as a role model a woman who couldn’t teach her own daughter better? Really?”

    NYC-Chic – That one is really funny. Criticizing a woman for not controlling another woman’s body. Very nice. I thought that was what feminism was all about. “Our bodies ourselves”"Get off my Uterus” and all that bullshit. If you actually had children you’d realize how ridiculous it is to believe you can police them 24/7.

    What a maroon. I think you’re lying about the abortion issue.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:09 pm

  394. Why SPQR? The same thing that you expected Obama to do, you should also do. Never tell someone to do something that you yourself will never do.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:10 pm

  395. Well that does it for me. Bill Ayers said he is innocent. That is all that I needed to hear.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:11 pm

  396. shuntashay, that’s not an improvement in coherency.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:11 pm

  397. SPQR – This has been one of those Alice in Wonderland down the rabbit-hole threads, with multiple Mad Hatters.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:14 pm

  398. In America we are innocent until proven guilty. SPQR I will not attack you character because I do not know you and you do not know me. We just disagree on this issue. We do not need to hate because we have different opinions. I have nothing in common, I believe, with Ayers but I do believe in justice. If being accused is all that needs to be done to be guilty we all are in trouble.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:15 pm

  399. Wait, JD- Are u serious? I wrote:

    “My problem with her is that she lies. She WAS for the bridge to nowhere. She didn’t sell the plane on ebay. She ran her small town into a deficit and she has sought more earmarks for her oil rich state than any other other state. And her husband belonged to a group that wants to destroy this Union and secede. She was keynote speaker at one of their fucntions. WTF? Her 17 year old daughteris a pregnant, high school drop out. Excuse me? After teen pregancy has been blamed for every thing from poverty to crime and welfare dependency, we are going to put in as a role model a woman who couldn’t teach her own daughter better? Really?”

    And you didn’t dispute ANY of that but came back with some name calling bullshit that I’m a Leftist and you love it when the left gets judgemental? As opposed to it being the norm when the Right Wing radicals do it? Like when your friend was pontificating on whats a “true Christian”.

    Oh Yeah!

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:16 pm

  400. “He calls me a bitch because he’s at a loss for talking points”

    NYC – Chic – I call you a BITCH for being upset because liberal, blue state New Yorkers were killed on 9/11. Farking partisan bitch.

    You present talking points and lies. I present facts, arguments and evidence. I’m here all week sweetie.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:20 pm

  401. Dailey Smokes Rocks: I have three sons. So I have children and I’m a woman who didn’t get pregnant not because another woman controlled my body but because I believed that premarital sex is wrong, as my mother had taught me.

    Palin has five kids. A special needs baby and a pregnant teen daughter. Now IS NOT the time for her to be furthering her political career because she’s got a full plate at home. In addition to being a liar. Just my opinion.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:20 pm

  402. shuntashay, innocent until proven guilty is a summary of the burden of proof at a criminal trial. It does not mean that you get to ignore the evidence of what Bill Ayers was, what he did and his lack of repentance just because he was not convicted.

    Nor does it mean that I can’t call Ayers a terrorist. If he does not like it, he can sue me for libel and prove the falsity of my statement.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:22 pm

  403. NYC_Chic, your opinion is offensive.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:23 pm

  404. “Whether it’s from Russia or Sarah, with love … we must be clear on an antidote.”

    Excerpt:

    A CAMPAIGN OF BLOOD – IN A BAPTISM OF HYPOCRISY…

    If all the beloved and enduringly missed, heroic individuals [America’s children], deployed to the killing fields of North Vietnam to the streets of downtown Baghdad whom non-judiciary administrations did and are yet sacrificing; that have met and will meet with the unfortunate fate of having their names itched on walls of granite, (Tombstones), perpendicular to the Earth’s southern hemisphere, had been given the choice of a grave or to be delayed (POW), it would have been a no brainer… Their most resolute and solemn echo of valor, to date, is reflective, if not predicated in the wisdom of Barack Obama…

    To lend an ear in allegiance to any persistence in the rattling of the saber and the blood, glistening thereupon – is to adopt one’s living and dependence upon it – thusly; by it, ye shall surely perish… By contrast, Obama has chosen to embrace a more eloquent [Christly], and profound (POW)… The (POWs), whom taught him from childhood that he, could not only trust them, but, that even at the eleventh hour they would be there to help him do that witch is righteous… Wherefore, Barack learned to depend and draw upon the humility and selflessness, enshrined in the heroes (POWs), of his own house (heart)… “Whereby, he has seen America as it should be: a new dawn of faith in a more righteous POW, the [POWER OF WOMEN], whom will put country first, in ushering forth a righteous referendum on America’s impending veracity; the John McCain(s), notwithstanding.”

    McCain, of course, understands well, that much of his support is not as much about his candidacy as it is a slight on Obama’s ethnicity: undermined by America’s endemic tradition of hate and bigotry. These are the same people that denied John McCain the presidency on his first run, in 2000: So, why the sudden bosom camaraderie? He has the same experience and the same medals: Nothing has changed except the landscape of the playing field – the dynamics of color… “The real hero or patriot” – [‘native endurance’]… But then, there‘s that primitive echelon of hypocritical exuberance: “For it is our ‘WARRIOR’ whom shall prevail,” (Senator McCain, no doubt)… Elaborate hoax: Ruse…

    Having spent 26 years as part of Washington’s problem, and to think that he can now, somehow inject himself into the public’s perception, and perceivably, a phenomenon [“born again maverick”] or the pallbearer of Capital Hill’s spiritual decadence, is more than suspect – simply put, staunchly ludicrous; and at 72 … statistically, out of time. But, the Senator’s acknowledgement of the GOP’s transgressions against the people did breathe a limited breath of fresh air – even a minuscule of penitence, though, that too, were shadowed by the sudden urgency of his disseminated address (Convention ensemble), scripted and belated desire to assimilate “c-h-a-n-g-e,” vowing to expunge all that defiles the White House and to purge much of its Senate’s country clubs on Capital Hill… “To buy into this wholesale posturing, or rather [‘graveyard religion’] is futile: fighting wars and a POW’s rendition of the semantics; the GOP’s (unauthorized franchise), by any other name.”

    The Republican Party’s quest in their protégé of “c-h-a-n-g-e,” is fanciful in rationale – nothing more than a camouflage that is all too often performed by a shape shifting, chameleonic mentality… Though the Senator’s exacting abilities in morphing remains to be seen: fact is – anything or anyone having an ability to register other than its self is given to illusion rather than logic. The proposition it self would far remove him from his element, fundamentally; having graduated at or near the bottom of his class; characteristically, John McCain is a day late and a dollar short. In perspective, he is more than likely to govern by emotional traits rather than those of the intellect… An emotional Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and our emotional (torture enhanced), Senator from [Hanoi], Arizona, is not a recipe for world peace: The clause in any resultant scenario is that [“YOU DON’T GET A DO OVER”], with “NUKES.”

    With respect to hindsight, you wouldn’t need Sigmund Freud or a host of psychoanalysts to convince you that you wouldn’t in good judgment entrust the lives of sleeping families, especially our babies – to the emotional and psychological handicaps of a former, tortured war prisoner. However, impassioned… Given the assumption of truth: John McCain literally sat the war out; five and one half years – imprisoned as it were: in whatever historic or heroic capacity one may choose to belabel the narrative; suicide, notwithstanding … it doesn’t automatically confer upon his résumé a Doctorate – PhD, in the philosophy of war or for having any such treaties of personal illuminants that would commemoratively support his claim: As General Wesley Clark, so appropriately defined; given the exception of torture; to which accord our sitting President has asserted unequivocally that torture can never be a mandate of empowerment in the defense of a nation: “The oracle of sentiment, indeed.” Leadership must be fashioned of uncompromising integrity, and with serious vigilance in humility, by virtue of its rationale … the congruent and adhesive thread of humanity…

    I’m not suggesting anything at all pathological of Senator McCain’s random symptoms, if you will; but an occasional, contrastive observation would of consequence – highlight exhibit [A]: a disorder in his personality, and an acute disorganization in real time in expressing [terms of hostility and contempt]; such as his referencing to his spouse in a sexually derogatory manner: Which is most certainly, non-characteristic of a prolific model of Presidential material in a civilize community: And to signal that tobacco laced with high octane (cancerous agents), or his infamous benediction of “bomb, bomb Iran, as acceptable means to kill off a race of people … innocent people; no doubt would be the rivalry of a Genghis Khan, but to suggest that such behavior is acceptable as somehow, society’s norm or the intellectual and thriving academia of America, is obscene.

    Moreover, one of the greatest impediments that underscores normal behavior of military personnel or anyone held captive and subjected to a torture of debilitating dementia and punitive reprimands: harsh and injurious treatment which is subject to recurrence of emotional displays of mental entanglement; includes (flash-back), though not necessarily a major mental disorder, however, a moment of abject schizophrenia is close enough to consider its perils: [disorder of unknown cause, typically characterized by a separation between the thought process and the emotions, a distortion of reality accompanied by delusions and hallucinations.] … Given the afore mentioned time span of such atrocious and intensely concentrated mental abuse afflicted upon or injected into any human cerebrum or its cerebral capacity, is more than likely to leave some scaring and lasting damages; as likely as water not being wet … to believe otherwise; from a science perspective – it would be medical negligence.

    Case in point: Because of the mental and physical reprimands that unfortunately resulted in (torture), imposed upon McCain, he can no longer raise his arms in normal ascent … can you not consider that the cerebral corridors of thought passage ways have not been altered, or compromised as well … the fact that it was the torture that compromised the healing of his broken arms; we know that the torture designate reaches the mind first as the body perceptively demonstrate its effectiveness; in Senator McCain‘s case; (suicidal and less heroic): [Compromise becomes constant] – torture made manifest… To contend that the designate by any degree, by-passes the mind in effect, and affects the body only would be the antics of sorcery: I’m grassroots – not the mentally challenged… In order for the mind to facilitate pain it has to absorb it, which, ultimately leaves the victims with a lifetime job of designate (torture), repression; [to force (ideas, impulses, etc. painful to the conscious mind), into the unconscious] – for as long as he/she is mentally and physically able to do so.

    And to be symptomatic, [one] of the (McCains); John, has expressed some reluctance to talk about his traumatic experience as a prisoner of war … understandable; [a painful emotional experience, or shock, often producing a lasting psychic effect and sometimes, a neurosis.] But then, there’s the other [one], Senator John McCain – who just can’t seem to let it go… Senility, schizophrenia? Go figure.

    To place either of these personalities at the helm of our nation is a likely surrender in committing to a medical hemorrhage in the people’s burden of proof, as to qualification, even in duplicity, if you will – to say the least. A prostrated and acquiescent government is never effective in the defense or leadership of its constituents: The current drama of the Republican’s theatrics or rather, playbook, juxtaposes the fall of Rome… Whether we’re looking at the White House or Caesar’s Palace, one thing is certain, and that is, life can and does repeat its self … life chooses the time and place, and “with” prejudice… It wouldn’t be a stretch at all for fate to connect the dots … the fact that the [Senate] was originally the supreme council of the ancient Roman state… Juxtaposing, the Senate’s “mavericks,” offering too little to late: “Cause and effect.” In layman’s terms – [‘expletive’… don’t just happen!]…

    Hypothetically … the red phone does ring at around 3:00 a.m., and a ‘President’ McCain is [having a moment]: … (Hallucinating)… Would that ever translate into country first…?

    Comment by Dino (8dfd4e) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:23 pm

  405. JD, how do you know what kind of people you have came in contact with? Like I said before, do JD, how do you know what kind of people you have come in contact with? Like I said before, do background check on everyone that you have had associations with or worked with. Is this what you think that Obama should have done? Is it stupid when it is turned on you? When you can put yourself in Obama’s and even McCain’s shoes you will see how ridiculous this guilt by association is. We cannot look at a person and know all about their past or can we tell our boss who to hire and who to fire and we don’t do background checks on our coworkers. McCain and Obama are human beings, not God.

    Comment by shuntashay (f3d044) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:27 pm

  406. Molon Labe, I love how almost every comment you’ve made has been refuted, and you still don’t learn, lol… says alot. Btw, someone else already answered your question, multiple times… check gatorgreenwell’ section, explains my point… but yeah, hey… stay scared, you’re the reason we are where we are:D
    I think it was McCain who said “bomb bomb Iran.”
    http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/20/mccain-botched/
    Wait, who’s terrorizing who again?

    Comment by Uneducated Rednecks for McCain (3b9d17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:27 pm

  407. Like when your friend was pontificating on whats a “true Christian”.

    I know not of whom you speak.

    She WAS for the bridge to nowhere

    She was for it before she was against it. Nuance.

    She didn’t sell the plane on ebay.

    She listed it on ebay. And she did not claim that she sold it on ebay. Apparently, McCain did, and he was mistaken. Where it was sold is really tangential to the point of that though.

    She ran her small town into a deficit

    I love it when Leftist act like they give a shit about government spending.

    and she has sought more earmarks for her oil rich state than any other other state.

    Can a Gov. request an earmark? Seeing as though they are not in Congress, that would be a pretty nifty trick. But, if you are going to try to make a disingenuous point like that, at least point out that the metric is per capita.

    And her husband belonged to a group that wants to destroy this Union and secede

    So now the associations of the spouse of the VP candidate are more important than the associations of the Presidential candidate?

    She was keynote speaker at one of their fucntions.

    Leftist hyperbole.

    Her 17 year old daughteris a pregnant, high school drop out. Excuse me?

    There appears to be no excuse for you.

    After teen pregancy has been blamed for every thing from poverty to crime and welfare dependency, we are going to put in as a role model a woman who couldn’t teach her own daughter better? Really?”

    I love it when the Left gets all judge-y.

    Now IS NOT the time for her to be furthering her political career because she’s got a full plate at home

    So, chica feels comfortable dictating to those that do not agree with her how they should conduct their lives.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:29 pm

  408. It is so funny to hear all the Ayers conversations.
    Bush family was ( they may still) best Friends of Bin Ladin Family.
    4 years ago none of you talked about that relation?
    Further More Top Republicans always been best Friend of radical Muslims, and Most of the friend of most of Terrorists main origin country Saudis. Even McCain had millions of dollars invested terrorist country Sudan until just before this campaign.
    Now you are talking about Kenya being Arab? Ayers being Terrorist while all the top republicans have the ties with most radical Arab Muslims
    Please be little realistic on your comments

    Comment by Fred (2061ee) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:29 pm

  409. Daily Smokes Rocks and Crystal Meth and then Votes Mccain:

    Unfortunately, I’m not here all week. Unlike you, I don’t get paid to troll by some Republican think tank and unless I’m still sick tomorrow, I have to go back to work.

    And just so you know, evidence is incontrovertible and facts are things that are true. You made a whole bunch of allegations about Chicago politicians and Obama by association and then RAN like a ladyboy when I asked you what Obama himself did and said. You tried to regurgitate some talking points and some other lame shit about knowing conservatives that died when the twin towers fell and then your special friends SPQR and JD came to back you up and now this whole discussion is like arguing with three gay dudes on Christopher Street.
    Just so you know.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:29 pm

  410. shuntashay, it was Obama who claimed to have the “judgment to lead” but he does not have the judgment to avoid being the political protege of a terrorist.

    That’s the bottom line.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:30 pm

  411. I have three sons. So I have children and I’m a woman who didn’t get pregnant not because another woman controlled my body but because I believed that premarital sex is wrong, as my mother had taught me.

    From the tone of your posts you don’t sound like you exercise much control, now or before marriage. Look, it’s just not fashionable for the left to be intolerant. Stop telling Sarah Palin how to live her life. It’s oppressive, not disciplined. Stop telling us what you do, as though you can pick and choose the values that constitute right and wrong. Just vote for your damned Obama and bring on the Hugo Chavez cabinet, all made up with hoods from Chicago. Ugh.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:31 pm

  412. NYC_Chic, other than your filthy little mouth, you’ve written nothing memorable here.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:31 pm

  413. She WAS for the bridge to nowhere

    “She was for it before she was against it. Nuance.”

    Me, one.
    You, zero.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:32 pm

  414. Teaching your teenage daughter right from wrong and then having her go out and experiment on her own because you failed to put a chastity belt on her is hardly bad parenting. If Obama and his leftist illuminati views were as scrutinized as Palin’s and McCain’s, then perhaps America would know how dangerous he really is.

    Comment by Jeff (9f2f2a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:33 pm

  415. She didn’t sell the plane on ebay.

    “She listed it on ebay. And she did not claim that she sold it on ebay. Apparently, McCain did, and he was mistaken. Where it was sold is really tangential to the point of that though.”

    So she didn’t lie by commission, she simply implied a mis-truth?

    Me, two.
    You, zero.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:34 pm

  416. She ran her small town into a deficit

    “I love it when Leftist act like they give a shit about government spending.”

    But she did run her small town into a deficit though right?

    Me, three
    You. zero.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:35 pm

  417. NYC_Chic, that was not a point on your side. You were the one that misrepresented Palin’s statement.

    By the way, with your foul mouth, you’ll always be a zero.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:35 pm

  418. JD, how do you know what kind of people you have came in contact with?

    Do you not pay attention to the people you choose to associate with? I do. And I can state, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is nobody in my past or present that has murdered anyone, nor is there anyone that has made a bomb designed to cause harm to persons or property in the US. That really should not come as a shock to anyone. Maybe in your circles that is harder to say.

    Bill Ayers was not some anonymous nobody. The Weather Underground and his activities should have been common knowledge to anyone running in those circles. Were I a

    McCain, of course, understands well, that much of his support is not as much about his candidacy as it is a slight on Obama’s ethnicity: undermined by America’s endemic tradition of hate and bigotry

    If the Leftist did not have the racism card, I really do not think that they would have anything other than class envy to run on.

    Fred – Thank you for your contribution. We are all dummerer for having read that.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:36 pm

  419. and she has sought more earmarks for her oil rich state than any other other state.

    “Can a Gov. request an earmark? Seeing as though they are not in Congress, that would be a pretty nifty trick. But, if you are going to try to make a disingenuous point like that, at least point out that the metric is per capita.”

    At least point that out, because then it won’t be so bad that she DID do that too?

    Me, four
    You, Zero

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:36 pm

  420. NYC_Chic, you keep counting coup where you were in fact beaten.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:37 pm

  421. And her husband belonged to a group that wants to destroy this Union and secede

    “So now the associations of the spouse of the VP candidate are more important than the associations of the Presidential candidate?”

    _Okay. So it is true that he belonged to that group then?

    Me, like five or six
    You, still a big zero

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:37 pm

  422. Me, two.
    You, zero.

    Your counting doesn’t add up. Don’t forget Qwertyuiop and Mickey Mouse and Anonymous anonymous. You may be up to at least 4 or 5, DNC style.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:39 pm

  423. She was keynote speaker at one of their fucntions.

    “Leftist hyperbole.”

    _But she WAS the keynote speaker at one of their functions thoug, right?

    Ok,
    Me, Six
    You, Zero times six

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:39 pm

  424. Me, like five or six

    That’s more like it.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 pm

  425. Her 17 year old daughteris a pregnant, high school drop out. Excuse me?

    “There appears to be no excuse for you.”

    -But there are plenty of excuses for her 17 year old daughter, who is pregnant and a high school dropout. That’s true too, by the way.

    Seven , Me
    Seven doo doo balls, you

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 pm

  426. and then your special friends SPQR and JD came to back you up and now this whole discussion is like arguing with three gay dudes on Christopher Street.

    Oh snap!! HA HA!!

    Excellent.

    Comment by Peter (e70d1c) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:40 pm

  427. NYC-Chic – Nonstop Lies:

    “My problem with her is that she lies. She WAS for the bridge to nowhere. She didn’t sell the plane on ebay.

    -She said she killed the bridge to nowhere and she did. The Alaska Democrats even acknoledged it on their website. She never denied she was initially for it.

    -She did put the plane on ebay. It didn’t sell on ebay, but she didn’t claim it did. Check her words.

    She ran her small town into a deficit and she has sought more earmarks for her oil rich state than any other other state.

    -Her role as Mayor of Wasilla is different as her role as governor of Alaska. Wasilla voters approved her expenditures. What is your point? Where are her lies?

    -Palin cut earmark requests from Alaska by several hundred million. She told Alaskans in her State of Alaska address she wanted to wean Alaska off those earmarks. Where are her lies?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:42 pm

  428. So she didn’t lie by commission, she simply implied a mis-truth?

    BBzzzzzzzzzzzzttt. Wrong. She said that she listed the plane on E-bay. The Left went bonkers and translated that into sold it on E-bay. The Left’s inability to read for comprehension does not win you a point on this one.

    I conceded the Bridge to Nowhere one, but there is more to it than the BS you posted.

    The deficit is what it is. I do not know the specifics of what was going on in and around their town at the time to speak to it. I suspect that you do not either. Growth, expansion, all sorts of potential reasons for a deficit.

    Since you did not respond to the other 7 points I made, by your standards, that leaves me ahead, 8-2. Ouch.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 pm

  429. Funny, Peter. Like a black joke. You hypocrites.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 pm

  430. After teen pregancy has been blamed for every thing from poverty to crime and welfare dependency, we are going to put in as a role model a woman who couldn’t teach her own daughter better? Really?”

    “I love it when the Left gets all judge-y.”

    -But until it was politically convenient because Palin has a teen daughter that’s pregnant, pregnant teenagers were the sum of the earth and they were blamed for everything from welfare dependency, to crime, right.

    Of course I’m right.

    Eight times right, Me
    Full of shit, You!!!

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 pm

  431. I see that you responded, in the most mendoucheous way possible, while I was typing. You sure do have a creative scoring system.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:46 pm

  432. But until it was politically convenient because Palin has a teen daughter that’s pregnant, pregnant teenagers were the sum of the earth and they were blamed for everything from welfare dependency, to crime, right.

    Cite, please.

    Eight times right, Me
    Full of shit, You!!!

    What color is the sky in your world?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:47 pm

  433. Peter and NYC are homophobes. Why must the Left be haters?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:47 pm

  434. -She said she killed the bridge to nowhere and she did. The Alaska Democrats even acknoledged it on their website. She never denied she was initially for it.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901

    And from her hometown paper:
    http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:48 pm

  435. I love it when the Leftists do not read their own links.

    daley said

    -She said she killed the bridge to nowhere and she did. The Alaska Democrats even acknoledged it on their website. She never denied she was initially for it.

    And that is what your links confirm.

    Did gleeeeeeeeen greenwald teach every troll how to link?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:51 pm

  436. Mom: “How was school today?”
    Kid: “It was great.”
    Mom: “Don’t lie to me. The school called and said you didn’t go.”
    Kid: “O mom, you liberal, leftist loony. I didn’t say I went. Check my words. I said it was great!”

    She did put the plane on ebay. It didn’t sell on ebay, but she didn’t claim it did. Check her words.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:51 pm

  437. She said she listed it on E-bay. True or false?

    Good Allah, stooooopidity at your level should either be visible to those around you, or painful.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:53 pm

  438. Well put, JD. It’s not that difficult to associate with people who are not going to tarnish your reputation. Obama and Ayers are members of the leftist illuminati and they are birds of a feather who flock together.

    Comment by Jeff (9f2f2a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:53 pm

  439. “You made a whole bunch of allegations about Chicago politicians and Obama by association and then RAN like a ladyboy when I asked you what Obama himself did and said.”

    NYC-Chic – That was already explained. Don’t tell me you are claiming you can’t read now! Remember the points about Obama not doing anything, having no experience, being part of the Chicago machine, saying no to reform, being the least experienced Presidential candidate ever. Then you ask me what did he do? Frak, I just explained it! Well, I forgot that he voted present 131 times in the Illinois legislature because he didn’t want to go on record with any risky votes.

    But you don’t seem curious about the truth about Obama’s associations. They don’t matter to you. Your mind is made up. You don’t care that he’s a socialist, may have anti-American leanings, can’t tell the truth or is afraid to, because none of that matters. You’re with the bony-assed white chicks. Once you go Barack, you never come back.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:54 pm

  440. JD, you are a liar!
    “In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called “Bridge to Nowhere,” political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska’s Congressional delegation during her run for governor.” From the Reuters link.

    But Palin was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

    The Alaska governor campaigned in 2006 on a build-the-bridge platform, telling Ketchikan residents she felt their pain when politicians called them “nowhere.” They’re still feeling pain today in Ketchikan, over Palin’s subsequent decision to use the bridge funds for other projects — and over the timing of her announcement, which they say came in a pre-dawn press release that seemed aimed at national news deadlines.

    “I think that’s when the campaign for national office began,” said Ketchikan Mayor Bob
    -From the ADN, her hometown paper.

    Seriously, you guys are nuts!!!

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:54 pm

  441. It is like facts are malleable, history is subjective, and their fevered imaginations have become their own objective realities.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:54 pm

  442. NYC – She was for it before she was against it, no?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:56 pm

  443. This entire thread is nuts.
    I don’t believe I’ve found a dozen cogent points in all of this garbage.
    I would like to thank everyone for participating, even though none of you have contributed anything to the discussion. We’ve read all of your points before, in much more intelligent, and convincing forms.
    Have a nice day!

    Comment by Another Drew (25937f) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:57 pm

  444. AD – I have a headache.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:59 pm

  445. She ran her small town into a deficit and she has sought more earmarks for her oil rich state than any other other state.

    -Her role as Mayor of Wasilla is different as her role as governor of Alaska. Wasilla voters approved her expenditures. What is your point? Where are her lies?

    Her lie:Palin embraces the title, labeling herself a “hard-core fiscal conservative,” whose “agenda was to stop wasteful spending.”

    Truth:Palin also successfully pushed through a sales tax increase in Wasilla, which went to fund a $15 million sports complex. However, a land dispute over the sight of the complex led to “years of legal wrangling” and cost Wasilla almost $1.7 million, “a lot more than the roughly $125,000 the city would have paid in 1998 if it had closed a deal to buy the property outright.” Wasilla is still facing budget shortfalls from the case today.

    When Palin left office in 2002, Wasilla had “racked up nearly $20 million in long-term debt,” or roughly $3,000 of debt per resident.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 8:59 pm

  446. Daleyrocks,
    I fully understand where you are. It’s a hell of a lot more comfortable to dismiss Rev. Wright, swear Barack Obama is a liar with a great deal to hide, and want to hang on what Bill Ayers did at one point in his life. To look under the surface would mean that you must come face to face with your racial, class, and intellectual views. To delve into why those “issues” disturb you so porfoundly would mean that you may have to think differently about the truths you hold most dear. America’s a great country: our right to free speech, religion, and press are immensely precious. But there are problem and racism is at the top of the list.

    I won’t jump on my soapbox about racism in the 21st Century. But I will say that political correctness has created silencing about anything that makes us uncomfortable. Racism should make us uncomfortable. It should make all Americans so uncomfortable that we have no choice but to engage in those difficult discussions that will bring hegemonic ideas out of the shadows to be addressed head on. But that’s not going to happen right now. It’s way easier to stay comfortable than to deal with why “issues” make us so uncomfortable.

    Comment by Riversistah (adf02c) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:00 pm

  447. Since you did not respond to the other 7 points I made, by your standards, that leaves me ahead, 8-2. Ouch.

    Comment by JD — 10/20/2008 @ 8:43 pm

    -I gotta go but whats the score now?

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:00 pm

  448. JD – NYC_Chic is dishonest. It isn’t even attempting argument. Obama has been caught lying and the troll’s not interested.

    This isn’t about truth for NYC_Chic.

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:02 pm

  449. Do you really understand who lead US since 2001 ?
    G.W. Bush for GOP -
    He got US in BIG MESS just some GOP members to fulfill their pockets by about 10% of $1T they wasted from YOUR pokets under various pretexts:
    Iraq war, terrorism, antiterrorism, mortgage, etc.
    Do you understand tha GOP rulled the Congres and House since 1992 to 2006 and failed to pass appropriate legislation to prevent financial meltdown
    - Do you understand that US killed/murdered 500 million people, while claiming the right to put the flag in women reproductive organ, by controlling their right to chose – better DOWN syndrome than a healthy educated US citizen, who might vote not for GOP…hypocrisy.
    - Do you understand that McCain is an impostor, all his promotion being based on connections – sun of Amiral, promoted by protection, kept in Vietnam as “Golden Egg Prisioner” just because identiofied himself – he is the ‘Liberman of GOP”
    - Do you understand that Sarah Palinka has no etics, she bite the hand that feeded her, she did everithing to get out of poorness – she was a terrible student, terrible at learning but good at words, ethics does not matter – a baracuda –
    Is these people representing YOU ?
    How smart are you ?

    Comment by Ann (833613) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:03 pm

  450. When Palin left office in 2002, Wasilla had “racked up nearly $20 million in long-term debt,” or roughly $3,000 of debt per resident.

    NYC-Chic – All approved by the voters. Again, what did she lie about? Do you have some quotes oe something? You are not doing well on your claims that she lies.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:03 pm

  451. Riversistah – But there are problem and racism is at the top of the list.

    I’d say education is at the top of the list. Once you obtain an education you might find it does wonders to dispel your racism.

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:05 pm

  452. lol… there’s a reason why mccain lost all 3 debates;P

    Comment by Uneducated Rednecks for McCain (3b9d17) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:05 pm

  453. #449 – He got US in BIG MESS just some GOP members to fulfill their pockets by about 10% of $1T

    Is Axelrod now outsourcing his astroturfing to non-English speaking countries?

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:07 pm

  454. Apogee, I’m dishonest? Prove it…

    It’s about the WHOLE truth for me and the fact that you all had the Senate, the Presidency and the house for six years and you fucked up. Now, you want to disown Bush and try to cram this Maverick shit down our necks while John McCain is saying crazy things like jobs are being oputsourced because people won’t work for $50 an hour.

    The truth about the Ayers link is that Barack Obama was 8 years old when that happened and Ayers, for WHATEVER reason was not only free but a University professor who sat on the Board of a prestigious foundation when they interacted as adults. I wanted to know and kept asking about what Obama did and said HIMSELF that should diqualify him and You see yourself where that lead.

    Regardless, I am not expecting to change anybody’s mind but I needed you to know how full of shit you guys are and I wanted a chance to say some of the stuff I scream at the television sometimes.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:10 pm

  455. whose “agenda was to stop wasteful spending.”

    Then demonstrate that she spent wastefully.

    The score? I have not yet figured out your scoring system. So far it seems like you get points for distorting positions, and not being very good at reading comprehension.

    To look under the surface would mean that you must come face to face with your racial, class, and intellectual views.

    I see someone has been looking in the mirror.

    Racists !!!! eleventy11one

    Ann states

    Do you understand that US killed/murdered 500 million people

    I would think that the media might have covered something that big. Care to substantiate that one?

    sun of Amiral

    Good Allah, how fucking difficult is it to spell, or have a rudimentary grasp of the English language?

    she bite the hand that feeded her, she did everithing

    Again with the whole English thing …

    Is these people representing YOU ?
    How smart are you ?

    This was a joke, right?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:15 pm

  456. “I said thanks but no thanks on the bridge to nowhere”
    We heard that a few hundred times.

    it’s a lie.

    Comment by Nanker Phelge (139099) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:18 pm

  457. It’s about the WHOLE truth for me

    I do not think that the word truth means the same thing to everyone else as it does to you.

    The truth about the Ayers link is that Barack Obama was 8 years old when that happened

    How old was Baracky when he chose to associate with Ayers?

    I wanted a chance to say some of the stuff I scream at the television sometimes

    I suspect you mutter under your breath while walking down the street as well. I doubt you limit your screaming towards only your TV.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:18 pm

  458. ohhhh. You did a great job, Patterico.

    Comment by like-the-truth (de1a52) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:21 pm

  459. WankerFelcher – Isn’t it the pinnacle of irony that the Left complains about the Bridge to Nowhere when their candidates, Baracky and Biden, voted for that spending every single time they had the opportunity to do so?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:21 pm

  460. “I fully understand where you are. It’s a hell of a lot more comfortable to dismiss Rev. Wright, swear Barack Obama is a liar with a great deal to hide, and want to hang on what Bill Ayers did at one point in his life.”

    Riversistah – Thank you for sparing me your soapbox. I think we can both agree that Obama is a demonstrable liar about his relationship with Bill Ayers and ACORN, but I don’t think you really understand where I am. Obama likes to portray himself as a post-racial candidate, but his 20 years of attendance at TUCC and the philosophy preached by it’s pastor Jeremiah Wright gives ample reason to doubt Obama’s posture. The extent the Obama campaign went to conceal the Annenberg Challenge, leaving it off Obama’s resume, and then once revealed, obstructing fact gathering about its activities, strongly suggested the campaign had things to hide. Some of the projects approved by Obama for African American youth with an anti-assimilationist theme suggest alignment with the philosophy of black liberation theology. To mr that casts doubt on Obama’s disavowals of Wright’s more incendiary sermons as does Obama’s first book.

    It’s sad that you choose to cast issues in purely racial terms. Ayers is not. He is an unrepentant terrorist whose radical ideology appears largely unchanged from the 1970s. He has insinuated himself into the mainstream of the American education establishment where his theories can do some real damage and it is there that he and Obama have collaborated, way beyond what the supposedly responsible press have reported. Why Obama chooses to lie about that relationship is a mystery to me. Why do you think he does Riversistah? Ayers philosophies of education, politicizing the classroom starting in grade school would scare most Americans. Racism is not part of it.

    The same goes for ACORN. The organization theoretically stands for good, but commits fraud. Why is Obama lying about his connections to them?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:22 pm

  461. NYC_Chic – I wanted a chance to say some of the stuff I scream at the television sometimes.

    That’s OK.

    You’ll admit, though, that people respond poorly to someone screaming at them. Also, the condition of screaming does not imply rationality.

    Your dishonesty lies in your approach to the interaction. You are fighting a screaming war at a site that values reason.
    Most of the regular commenters at this site are not ‘full of shit’. Your mis-characterization of them as such, as well as your contradictory agenda of ‘correction’ (I needed you to know how full of shit you guys are – I am not expecting to change anybody’s mind) renders your assertion of honest discussion a lie.

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:23 pm

  462. That “but Obama was 8 years old” line is the most stupid excuse I’ve ever heard. But we keep getting it repeated here time after time by blithering idiots because it is the both the lamest, and best, excuse Obama’s campaign can come up with.

    How old was Obama when he decided to allow Ayers to recruit him to CAC? How old was Obama when he allowed Ayers to raise funds for his campaigns? How old was Obama when he and his wife became friends with Bernadine Dohrn at Sidley Austin?

    I’m guessing he was not 8 years old any longer, although there is no evidence that Obama’s famed judgment was any better than it was at age 8.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:24 pm

  463. You see, Apogee, you are just nicer than me.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:25 pm

  464. NYC_Chic – I wanted a chance to say some of the stuff I scream at the television sometimes.

    Is that when you are using your vibrator?

    What is its nickname?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:28 pm

  465. Ann, you seem completely ignorant of the reality of the mortgage crisis. You attempt to pin it on the GOP. Evidently, you are ignorant of the legislation in 2005 that McCain supported to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You are evidently ignorant of the history of Democrats using Fannie Mae as a slush fund. You are evidently ignorant of the fact that crooked accounting was revealed under Franklin Raines’ tenure at Fannie Mae – the Raines that was a repeated figure in Democratic administrations at HUD and OMB. You seem ignorant of the fact that it was Democrats who opposed investigation of Fannie Mae’s activities, denouncing the IG who brought forward initial reports. You seem ignorant of the fact that Barney Frank’s own “partner” was an official at Fannie Mae during crucial years.

    But then, you don’t know what Fannie Mae even is, do you?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:30 pm

  466. SPQR – Did you see that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd will have hearings on Fannie and Freddie, after the election?

    Side note, to all of the drive-by trolls, if Ayers was just someone in the neighborhood, how did Baracky come to write a blurb for the cover of one of Ayers’ books?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:32 pm

  467. JD, unbelievable gall, isn’t it? “Friends of Angelo” the lot of them.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:35 pm

  468. SPQR & JD – What happened to Bawney Fwank’s teef? Where did they go?

    Or maybe I don’t want to know.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:39 pm

  469. Let’s just get it over with….Fuck Hope ’08. As Carlin says “when you have selfish ignorant citizens, you get selfish ignorant politicians”.

    Comment by SWCC (c92da8) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:41 pm

  470. SPQR – Gall, yes. Unbelievable, not in the least.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:46 pm

  471. That’s OK.

    You’ll admit, though, that people respond poorly to someone screaming at them. Also, the condition of screaming does not imply rationality.

    —-It doesn’t have to. But what i want you to do is go back and in each and every case, see who started it and then come back and tell me why I have to be the pacifist.

    Your dishonesty lies in your approach to the interaction.

    -See, thats where we are going to have to agree to disagree. My dishonesty or anybody ELSE’s dishonesty CANNOT lie in my “approach to the interaction”. My dishonesty can lie if I make untrue statements and present them as true, if I play word games with the truth that my lead you to believe one thing when the implied is not at all true or if I claimed a perspective i really didn’t subscribe to. Not being nice is not where the dishonesty can lie, in my book.

    You are fighting a screaming war at a site that values reason.
    —–No, I’m arguing with some posters on a thread about Barack Obama and John McCain. People said things to me that I didn’t like and presumably I did the same. From the first paragraph I read, I knew this to be a partisan Republican website. No values or reason beyond that. Looking at the comments before mine and reading the blog owners
    post, I don’t see the bar having been set that high either. You are in your comfort zome here. You are used to the argument going along certain lines.

    Most of the regular commenters at this site are not ‘full of shit’. Your mis-characterization of them as such, as well as your contradictory agenda of ‘correction’ (I needed you to know how full of shit you guys are – I am not expecting to change anybody’s mind) renders your assertion of honest discussion a lie.
    —-I don’t know WHO the regulars are on this board and I couldn’t care less. The people I was arguing with were full of shit and diversions and basically think in circles like idiots. One guy posts what I posted about Palin line by line with his responses. I tally it up and i’m right on EVERY, every point. Another guy comes out of nowhere with, “Just because what she said didn’t actually happen doesn’t mean she lied” logic to take up for him and thats NOT full of shit? Then, every time somebody has nothing to say, I’m a lefty, One Man is the name of my vibrator, I’m a bitch, I don’t have kids, I’m lying about how I feel about abortions, I can’t read for comprehension, etc. Thats full of shit too.

    You can break your wrists patting yourselves on the back about how clever and nicely you debate but the people I was arguing are all full of shit.

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:47 pm

  472. What does Ayers, Wright, Farrakhan, Hamas, Alinsky, Raines, Rezko, ACORN, Missouri “truth squads”, missing thesis, plagiarism…(could go on, but am getting tired)…have in common? I will give you a hint; he wants to be President of our Country.

    No seriously, he wants to be President and has a good chance (how is that possible???).

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:49 pm

  473. But what i want you to do is go back and in each and every case, see who started it and then come back and tell me why I have to be the pacifist.

    Feel free to repost your very first comment here, and I suspect you will not see how your tone, language, and demeanor led directly to the way that people responded to your repeated distortions.

    if I play word games with the truth

    Like noting that Baracky was 8 when the Weather Underground was out killing people? Or when you read the phrase listed it on E-bay and translated that to sold it on E-bay?

    partisan Republican website. No values or reason beyond that

    Because we all know only the Left has value, or utilizes reason.

    I tally it up and i’m right on EVERY, every point.

    You gave yourself points when you were demonstrably wrong.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:54 pm

  474. I really have to go but I must say this. I went to go buy a bracelet in the Village a few days ago and got into an argument with a gay dude about him dumping out his PURSE on my car in the heat of an argument with someone he was with. Dead serious. He dumps out all the stuff from a lady’s handbag he was carrying on the hood of my car and then starts a shouting match with his friend. I tell him to move his crap and that’s all she wrote. The three of them went CRAZY on me.

    Dailey Smokes Rocks and Crystal Meth while dressed in Drag as sarah Palin: You’re the guy with the purse and pants so tight they looked like denim leggings.

    SPQR: You are his lover, a grown ass man of like 6 feet three with the pink hello kitty shirt on and a white mini skirt. And gold Ed Hardy sneakers.

    JD: You are the little spanish ladyboy one who’s already started “the process of becoming” that the one with the purse was going to beat up before he started in on me.

    Good night, All

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:57 pm

  475. well jerk, i voted for Obama, this isnt even news worthy, it’s HE/SHE SAID bullshit. Grow up

    Comment by jessica (476479) — 10/20/2008 @ 9:59 pm

  476. Every good person has one bad friend. Even God, did have the Lucifer, who turned out to be the devil. Obama met Ayer like any college colleague would have meet. Most professors know how to work objectively even if they disagreed.
    Obama met Ayer as a professor… stop acting like rednecks when you claimed to be Christian…you lacked FORGIVENESS and become a bogus Christian.

    Comment by Grey (54cedd) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:00 pm

  477. MY FIRST COMMENT (Because you asked):
    #

    No matter what you say about Barack Obama, I will never vote for John Mccain because of the words that came out of his own mouth: Jobs are being outsourced because people WON’T work for $50 AN HOUR and the hell with the mother, even if she has other children who might depend on her for their sole support if something (god forbid) goes wrong during a birth.
    Totally inexcusable and absolutely out of touch.

    As far as Ayers, maybe this is what you guys don’t get. In all the digging you’ve done in his butthole, all you can find is things OTHER people did or said that were wrong. Ayers was with that group when Obama was eight years old. God damn it, make some frickin sense!!! He went to the most popular black church in his area – maybe for the felowhip? Maybe because despite the pastor being off his rocker, like alot of pastors, the church is a beautiful place with good people and the foundation of a community in Christ? The pastor at my mother’s church had TWO families. And every body knew it and listened out for his pro ploygamy bias every single sermon and gossipped and laughed at them but we loved that church and my mother who thinks men should be jailed for cheating STILL GOES!!! This man gets up in th epulpit every week and talks about how all the men in the bible had multiple wives and how its natural and she still goes to that church because its bigger than him.

    All the investigating and going over his life with a fine tooth comb and this is all you have. That he smoked pot and knows a handful of shady people? If you were put under the SAME scrutiny would that be the case?

    We can’t afford eight more years of Bush or three years of Palin/Lieberman. We don’t want war with Iran or to slide further into the recession because of pro big business republican fiscal nonsense.

    Obama is BRAND NEW. He’s not an old boy crony with “experience” from messing up this country for 20 years now pretending to be an outsider. He’s got good ideas and good people behind him. He’s the personification of change and if anything happens to him, Biden is ready.

    Obama/Biden 08!!!

    Comment by NYC_Chic — 10/20/2008 @ 2:04 pm

    Comment by NYC_Chic (475294) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:00 pm

  478. Wack-a-Mole Part 354.5

    “WASHINGTON – Freddie Mac secretly paid a Republican consulting firm $2 million to kill legislation that would have regulated and trimmed the mortgage finance giant and its sister company, Fannie Mae, three years before the government took control to prevent their collapse.
    In the cross hairs of the campaign carried out by DCI of Washington were Republican senators and a regulatory overhaul bill sponsored by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. DCI’s chief executive is Doug Goodyear, whom John McCain’s campaign later hired to manage the GOP convention in September.
    Freddie Mac’s payments to DCI began shortly after the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee sent Hagel’s bill to the then GOP-run Senate on July 28, 2005. All GOP members of the committee supported it; all Democrats opposed it.
    In the midst of DCI’s yearlong effort, Hagel and 25 other Republican senators pleaded unsuccessfully with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to allow a vote.

    And yes McCain signed on to the legislation and a lot of Democrats were opposed. It was “bizzarro world” as someone notes in the piece. But then again as we know- we in the real world- The collapse of Fannie and Freddie were not the cause of the meltdown. The plural of anecdote is not data. But data is.

    And here’s more interesting news

    A company that ships oil into Iraq for use by American forces there “appears to have engaged in a reprehensible form of war profiteering,” according to a letter by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Cal., Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The company, International Oil Trading Limited, is run by Florida-based businessman Harry Sargeant, a top fundraiser for the presidential campaign of Senator John McCain.

    Follow the link for the numbers.

    Comment by Nanker Phelge (139099) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:01 pm

  479. NYC-Chic – I resent that. I used to live in the Village. Back before your heyday. Are you homophobic too, you bony-assed bitch?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:09 pm

  480. Pons Asinorum:
    McCain lavishe being a Board Member of University for the Deaf called Gallaudet University. He quitted when the Deaf protested the Board selection. McCain is erratic and has temper that can destroy US in 4 more years of Bush. The stock will fluctuate like his temper and destroy entire nation.

    Comment by Grey (54cedd) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:10 pm

  481. You are the little spanish ladyboy

    Sexist and racist, and homophobic, from the party of tolerance.

    Obama met Ayer like any college colleague would have meet.

    Except they were not colleagues and that is not how they met. Outside of that, you are spot on.

    NYC chica – I cannot imagine why anyone would object to anything in that comment. That is the most lucid and rational comment of the day.

    WankerFelcher – If you are so concerned about Freddie and Fannie, why not start with Barney Franks, the House Dems, and Chris Dodd, who all put a stop to any attempt to actually regulate the problems, declaring there to be no problems, and injecting race into the issue?

    according to a letter by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Cal.,

    If Henry said it, is must be true. We will await his most assuredly non-partisan witchunt, I mean, hearing.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:13 pm

  482. He quitted

    Axelrod is outsourcing the astroturfers.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:15 pm

  483. I’ve learned by doing my own research that yahoo news is almost always WRONG. You can watch the cspan-2 tapes for the 2003 and 2005 regulatory committee meetings and see it was the democrats saying nothing was wrong, while several republicans were trying to tell them to open their eyes. One rep, I don’t remember which, even directly accused one of the democrats of receiving a rather large sum of cash to fight the change. The bill was shot down in three different attempts, all because the democrats refused to see the problem. you can witness this from their own mouths! Just watch the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

    Comment by To Whack-a-Mole (b07e0c) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:24 pm

  484. Sen McCain you should be ashame of yourself. You were associated with Mr. Keating and Mr. Liddy and they both are very bad people. Both are criminals that many American don’t know about (the young). You have reach a new low these past months. I am a retired Army soldier and would tell any soldier not to vote for you. I can only amagine you as a company commander with your views on race. You have divided our country alone race. War heroes don’t do that. They unite the country. In my 50 years I have never since any thing like this. How can a fellow serviceman be so devisive you have dishonored yourself and the uniform you once wore. Your will to win at all cost is just plain mean. For you to think that Mr. Obama is not a real American would be like me saying because you were born in Panama you are not a true American. I ask you to go back to the John McCain before the years 2000.Duty, Honor, Country. I hope you have not forgot what that mean

    Comment by TONY PITTS (def82b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:26 pm

  485. Dear Grey:
    All true, but I give him a break when taking into account his life experiences in service of this country (including a little something called “Vietnam” that he could have gotten out of, but did not).

    When I take into the limited record of his opponent, I find only inconsistency, no record of significance, and a scary fondness toward anti-American characters.

    Bonus with Sen McCain: no terrorist buddies, no life-partner that until recently were ashamed of our Country, and no hate-mongers of any significant duration (certainly not TWENTY years).

    Human, mistakes, flaws; yes – but between the two, it is even a hard choice.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:27 pm

  486. Mr. Ayers is an esteemed scholar, a University Professor & genuine American Hero for his stalwart activism in protesting the Vietnam war. Blowing up a statue TWICE with firecrackers is hardly terrorism in light of the atrocities revealed about Vietnam. Ayers wishes he had done more to stop the Vietnam war. I hope that Mr. Obama appreciates his association with such a fine, liberal American Hero, because we sure do. It beats being best friends with felony convicts like G. Gordon Liddy and Charles Keating.

    Comment by tedemalet (a5673b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:28 pm

  487. TONY PITTS, you are the one who should be ashamed. Your dishonest accusation of racism toward McCain by itself destroys your credibility.

    Spare us the astroturf.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:29 pm

  488. tedemalet, Ayers makes Liddy look like a saint. Your repetition of Obama talking points illustrates only Obama’s dishonesty.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:31 pm

  489. Just what kind of slime would dare to call Ayers an “american hero” ?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:32 pm

  490. Sen McCain you should be ashame of yourself.
    You have reach a new low
    I can only amagine you as a company commander
    You have divided our country alone race.
    How can a fellow serviceman be so devisive
    Your will to win at all cost
    I hope you have not forgot what that mean

    English, often. Axelrod ought to be taken to task for outsourcing trolls.

    with your views on race

    What are Sen. McCain’s objectionable views on race?

    I am a retired Army soldier

    French army, perhaps?

    You have divided our country alone race.

    Proof of said assertion?

    For you to think that Mr. Obama is not a real American

    Please show us where Sen. McCain has said anything that remotely approaches this.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:32 pm

  491. Black Water is already preparing for civil war!

    Better yet there will be Sharia Law if Obama win and all America will be clean up of all the filth they have propigate to the rest of the world. Obama will have set a course he can’t change.

    No more Hollywood & Entertainment Industry and Perversion. Those that voted for him will not have the last laugh. Marrigae will be between a man and woman and no one will be aborted, everyone will be fruitful and multiply;-) HA HAA!!!!

    Comment by W (6c5052) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:33 pm

  492. Mr. Ayers is an esteemed scholar, a University Professor & genuine American Hero for his stalwart activism in protesting the Vietnam war. Blowing up a statue TWICE with firecrackers

    Ding, ding, ding. We now have a winner for most mendoucheous comment of the day. Given the depth and breadth of the contestants today, that was no small feat.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:34 pm

  493. Dear Tedemalet:

    It was interesting to hear your words of praise for Professor Ayers.

    I am curious however if “the esteemed scholar” Professor Ayers (whom you are so proud) ever gave aid or help to the children of Paul Ragonese, Richard Elrod, or Brian V. McDonnell?

    Paul Ragonese was injured in a Weather Underground bombing on June 9, 1970.

    Richard Elrod was paralyzed by a Weather Underground bombing on October 11, 1969.

    Brian V. McDonnell killed by a Weather Underground bomb filled with shrapnel on Feb 16, 1970.

    There were no firecrackers, only shrapnel and gasoline.

    Sincerely,

    Pons Asinorum

    PS: Would you happen to know if Professor Bill Ayers has ever apologized to his victims (at least those who survived)? In my research I could find no record of it.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:34 pm

  494. Clean-up in aisle 491 …

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:35 pm

  495. Oh man, will the liberals be upset when McCa(in) and Pal(in) are both (in) the Whitehouse this January! Go McCain and Palin!

    Comment by Larry (c6aa64) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:36 pm

  496. Sheesh, JD, look at that mess on the floor…

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:37 pm

  497. Pons – Apparently he did express his “apologies” to one of the victims. It was one of those non-apology apologies, where he expressed that he was sorry for how things turned out, not for what they did, or how they did it.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:37 pm

  498. The long awaited written documentary by Jose M. Paulino is finally out. The “Fraud of the Fraud” (scenes 1&2) was made available yesterday. Get your copy first. This explosive documentary is packed with declassified documents, congressional hearings, public statements, and mainstream news reports to prove as fact, what is normally written off as baseless conspiracy theories. With the amount of misinformation that is being put out into the world today, this written documentary will teach you how to filter through the chaos and mayhem produced by those who want to keep the public asleep. Learn why even information that is openly admitted by government officials, news reports, and credible sources are still tagged as conspiracy theories instead of facts. This written documentary will teach you how to wake up the sleeping Lazarus. Since this is a new day and time, we need a new approach on how to expose the criminal elite that run this planet. This written documentary offers that approach by exposing the criminal elite with cited credible facts and not just pretty colorful words.

    https://www.createspace.com/3347749

    Comment by Manny Rosario (d7af19) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:38 pm

  499. I stand corrected, thank you JD

    lol

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:38 pm

  500. Is all of this nonsense a result of a yahoo link?

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:39 pm

  501. JD, that or we got in the way of an expedition to find the yeti.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:40 pm

  502. At this point, I am comfortable in stating that there is a better chance of finding a yeti than there is of one of these trolls saying anything 1) original, 2) honest, 3) coherent, or 4) writtend in standard English.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:43 pm

  503. At this point, I am comfortable in stating that there is a better chance of finding a yeti than there is of one of these trolls saying anything 1) original, 2) honest, 3) coherent, or 4) written in standard English.

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:43 pm

  504. Liddy was convicted of conspiracy, burglary and illegal wiretapping

    In 1994, after the federal raid on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, Liddy advised his listeners: “Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they’re going to be wearing bulletproof vests. … Kill the sons of bitches.”

    4 years later, In 1998, **Liddy gave a fundraiser in his Scottsdale, Arizona home for McCain’s senatorial re-election campaign** — the two posed for photographs together.

    In May 2007, as a presidential candidate, McCain was a guest on Liddy’s syndicated radio show and said, “Well, you know, **I’m proud of you**. I’m proud of your family. I’m proud to know your son, Tom, who’s a great and wonderful guy. And it’s always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon. **And congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.**”

    In addition, Liddy has said that when he was young and listened to Hitler on the radio, it “made me feel a strength inside I had never known before,” he explains.

    He chose his wife on the basis of her being a “a tall, fair, powerfully built Teuton.”

    He would take his kids to see Leni Reifenstahl’s Nazi propaganda movie ‘The Triumph of the Will.’

    **In 2004, when asked if he regreted burgling the offices of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and setting in chain the resignation of a President (Watergate), he replied “No”.**

    Read this interview with G Gordon Liddy from 2004 to see how “rehabilitated” he really is.

    Comment by Jazza27 (a43855) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:45 pm

  505. Jazza – How does that actually killing people?

    Never mind, refer back to #503 …

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:48 pm

  506. Correction (the lack of basic English appears to have rubbed off on me)

    Jazza – How does that compare to actually killing people?

    Never mind, refer back to #503 …

    Comment by JD (f7900a) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:49 pm

  507. Jazza, you made my point. Liddy looks pretty good compared to a weather underground terrorist who attempted to violently overthrow the government of the United States.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 10:55 pm

  508. Dear jaaza27:
    How many people did Mr. Liddy kill, maim or injure (?)…wait a minute…I have it right here…ZERO.

    All politicians have certain discrepancies. Taken in balance (positives and negatives), it is not even close.

    At best there is only one positive for Senator Obama : community organizer (which now appears to mean lawyer for ACORN)…hmmm, scratch that…there is no positive of any significance for Obama.

    For Senator McCain, his career and service is replete with the positive attributes.

    Both men have negatives, but if that is the worst you can find for McCain, then the choice becomes self-evident.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:02 pm

  509. JD-
    I’m not defending Ayers’ actions, but let’s be accurate. Ayers did *not* kill anyone.

    SPQR-
    I was not trying to show that Liddy is *worse* than Ayers. But I don’t think Liddy looks pretty good when compared to anyone.

    My point was to show that Liddy is NOT someone to be congratulated or proud of – both of which McCain professed to be.

    Comment by Jazza (a43855) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:06 pm

  510. How does McCain knowing Liddy justify anything related to Obama? Both associations are relivant to the candidates. The Liddy character is like the hero in one of Tom Clancy’s novels. Ayres is the bad guy. One did disgusting things to overthrow the government, the other did disgusting things to save it.

    Comment by SoWhat (e9f6cb) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:11 pm

  511. Jazza, no, you didn’t have a point. You tried to show that McCain associated with someone you wanted to paint as just as bad.

    But you failed twice. Once in that McCain’s association with Liddy is orders of magnitude less than that of Obama with Ayers. Second, in that Liddy can’t be compared to Ayers because Liddy never did anything comparable to Ayers. Liddy did not build bombs to kill people, Liddy did not found a group that actually succeeded in killing people, bombing US facilities and robbing banks.

    And we don’t know that Ayers did not kill anyone, other than his valueless word. Weather Underground did kill people, and Ayers’ exact involvement in those deaths, and what he attempted to do are hidden.

    Your point blew up in your hands from your own incompetence.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:12 pm

  512. Dear jaaza27:
    Let’s be accurate, Professor Ayers was part of a terrorist organization that committed murder. As part of that organization he is morally responsible for any murder or attempted murders that he did not try to stop. There is no record whatsoever to indicate that he cooperated with law enforcement or provided warnings of any kind.

    In his own words: “Guilty as hell; free as a bird”.

    Please note the word “guilty”. It means culpable.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:15 pm

  513. I’ll refrain from profanity, and almost refrain from proclaiming 90% of the above posts as complete and utter stupidity.

    I’ll just toss this out there, this Ayers garbage is even less on spot than McCain owing a large portion of his success to his wife’s family connections.

    Do a little looking into it. Cindy McCain’s father was convicted of multiple counts of falsifying liquor records in a conspiracy to conceal illegal distribution of whiskey against post-war rationing regulations in 1945. After serving a 6 month federal sentence he was charged with falsifying liquor records. He was subsequently acquitted do to his shrewd lawyer, William Rehnquist (Name ring a bell?).

    In 1953 he patently lied during a commission hearing to conceal his buisness partner, Clarence Baldwin, who had been banned from owning stake in the operation by the New Mexico Racing Commission for illegal book making in a case tied to major mafia families.

    This history goes on and on, suffice to say Jim Hensley (McCain’s father-in-law, who employed McCain and financed his Arizona senate campaign) got his start working for Kemper Marley, who worked for Gus Greenbaum (A member of the Chicago Outfit, credited with two assassinations before taking over for Bugsy Segal, and then being assassinated himself). It is also worth noting that Rehnquists defense bill was paid in full by Marley, who also handed Hensley the very same Budwieser distributorship that made Hensley wealthy enough to fund McCains political career.

    If that weren’t enough, Kemper Marley, Hensley’s mentor, was then forced to resign from his position as state gaming comissioner as his ties to Peter Licavoli (Arizona mafia boss, which helped Kemper to bankroll the construction of the Flamingo Casino) were revealed. The reported who revealed these findings was killed in a car bomb June of that year.

    As I tire of reporting these findings, do a little digging of your own, you’ll find Hensley and Kemper were close associates of Keating and that scandal is already well known.

    Were it not for the above sequence of events, John McCain would forever be the son of war heroes.

    Also intriguing, and as strongly tied to McCain as Ayers is to Obama:

    During the Castellammarese Mafia War, Bugsy Seigel and Joeseph Bonanno ended up on the same side. Seigel was later bank rolled by McCain’s father in law and his associates in Las Vegas to open the Flamingo. Subsequently, in 1995 John McCain was one of 300 people invited to Joeseph Bonnano’s 90th birthday party. (Bonnano sat in “The Commission”, the lead body of the 5 mafia families, as boss of the Maranzano family.

    There you have it. Look into it, there’s much more substance and factual proof to these connections than there are to the “Obama was born in Bill Ayer’s living room under a full muslim terrorist moon.” claims.

    Comment by Project (87a931) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:16 pm

  514. Guys, this was fun. Predictable but fun; I really needed it to unwind. I am in CA and have to put up with this garbage all day long; same garbage (strange isn’t it?) but no outlet if I want to keep my job –liberal minded people being so “free speech” and all.

    Thanks, and I hope it turns out okay — for our Country, Troops, Families, and yes even our liberal friends :-)

    ‘night

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:22 pm

  515. SPQR -

    “Jazza, no, you didn’t have a point. You tried to show that McCain associated with someone you wanted to paint as just as bad.”

    No, my point was that McCain is proud and congratulatory of the philosophies and principles of a man, whose philosophies and principles are founded on hatred, intolerance, violence, and an admiration of ultra-right wing totalitarian governments.

    Pons-
    “There is no record whatsoever to indicate that he cooperated with law enforcement or provided warnings of any kind.”

    The weather underground DID give advance warnings about the bombings that Ayers was involved in. Again I’m not defending his actions, but I think it’s important to be factual. But goodnight, and I hope it all turns out ok as well.

    Comment by Jazza (a43855) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:35 pm

  516. Maybe Christians should stop worshiping Jesus. According to the GOP of his day (Pharisees), he was also said to “pal around” with disreputable individuals including Romans, tax collectors, prostitutes, women, and Samaritans. They made him look risky by claiming he cast out demons because he was in league with the Devil; that he talked of paying taxes to Rome, and having open talks with people considered to be “the enemy”.

    Were Jesus around today, I have no doubt that the Republican party and its base would hang him out to dry again. I mean, it’s bad enough that Jesus looks like an Arab, but telling rich people to give up all they have to the poor and follow him?

    SOCIALIST!!

    Comment by Kelly (4ae0b4) — 10/20/2008 @ 11:52 pm

  517. Read the blog owners’ statement on why they took that page down:

    Gawkers, look elsewhere, or better yet, get a life

    They don’t like Obama either, but at least they have the decency to stand up against slander.

    Comment by Robin (907b1d) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:00 am

  518. Kelly – You’ve got the roles reversed. The Pharises were the big government Democrats, forcibly taking the peoples’ wealth. Jesus was doing everything on a voluntary basis. Sorry, your analogy doesn’t work.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:08 am

  519. What do you try to prove? Who will believe you LIAR

    Comment by FUCK YOU LIAR (441493) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:13 am

  520. Yeah Kelly, everyone knows Jesus was all for tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%.

    Comment by Jazza (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:13 am

  521. Man, you guys are sick. Look into McCain on his 70th birthday and Rick Davis paying Rafaello Follieri for Catholic votes. Liddy threatened life of the ATF during the Waco ordeal – so yes he is just as bad. He directed people to aim at their heads since they would be wearing bullet proof vests. Look into McCain and Putin and the Montenegro takeover. Look into McCain and Carl Lindner and 1.7mil going to Columbia terrorists. Can you possibly see that this will get nobody anywhere? Do you really think both campaigns don’t know the trash on each other? This is hilarious reading this as if you guys are top level spies and discovered something new. Move on and get over it.

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:15 am

  522. ok, now let’s talk about,mr mc cain,he is having most voters beleave that obama has ties to this ayers man,just think for a moment,was obama born ,or a child at that time. so you are saying that makes me guilty for being in someones presence,because of there past what ever it maybe.now how many reverends,pastors or priest,have a past that has been over looked,because we are in denial,and another thing if obama was muslim,he would not be able to it pork ,or any animal with a huf
    and also,his wife could not have on skirts above the knee.o yeah for all you people who are saying ,he does not have enough experiance,did u not vote for jimmy carter the peanut man,did u not vote for ronald reagan the actor,o im sorry u forgot because
    they were white so that makes it right,well u are wrong, u are suppose to vote for whois best to be the president.

    Comment by joe (d12fe3) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:20 am

  523. Look into McCain and Putin and the Montenegro takeover. Look into McCain and Carl Lindner and 1.7mil going to Columbia terrorists.

    DAWN – We need links. All we have is stuff on Obama and Ayers that the MSM won’t publish. What kind of deal did Putin and McCain cook up for Montenegro? What about the Milkman and McCain and Columbia? We need good intel!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:25 am

  524. Well having read all 522 comments posted so far, I am only certain of one thing: SPQR is completely full of shit.

    Comment by Senatus Populusque Romanus (e520a3) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:25 am

  525. Where do you keep your debate team trophies?

    Comment by Bigus Dickus (592cb4) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:29 am

  526. u are suppose to vote for whois best to be the president.

    joe – u are correct. It does not matter who is black or who is white. It does matter to some who hangs around with people who tried to overthrow the government of the United States and still say today they aren’t sorry about it and might do it again. It doesn’t matter what they did when Obama was eight years old. What matters is what they say when they are hanging around with Barack and that is that they hate the U.S. How many Presidential candidates hang out with people who hate the U.S. joe? Just Barack.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:32 am

  527. you have all kind of baloney on obama because you will look no where else. Politicians are dirty. McCain is dirty. Maybe Obama is dirty but this Ayers thing is so bogus no wonder anyone will listen to you. And what is the purpose, so we can have the warmonger in charge? He is so unhealthy and you need to really understand Palin is an absolute fraud and failure. How can you even consider being part of something that could lead to that bimbo in charge? Seriously!

    Carl H. Lindner Jr., the billionaire Cincinnati businessman, was CEO of Chiquita Brands International from 1984 to 2001, and remained on the company’s board of directors until May 2002. Beginning under his tenure, Chiquita executives paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (known by the Spanish acronym AUC), which is described by George Washington University’s National Security Archive as an “illegal right-wing anti-guerrilla group tied to many of the country’s most notorious civilian massacres.”

    And John McCain’s campaign has personally benefitted to the tune of $2 million from a fundraiser co-hosted by Lindner:, Lindner co-hosted a $25,000-per-person fundraiser for McCain and the Republican Party in the wealthy Indian Hills neighborhood of Cincinnati, Ohio. The event raised about $2 million; Lindner also serves on McCain’s Ohio Victory Team.

    This is quite ironic, given that John McCain has pressed Colombian President Uribe on human rights violations, and accused Obama of not doing much to support Uribe’s anti-terrorism efforts.

    Right now, the McCain aides are claiming that John McCain cannot be held accountable for the past actions of a fundraiser, but John McCain’s known this guy, Lindner, for a long time and has done sweetheart deals for him

    Last May, the Washington Post reported that in the late 1990s, McCain “promoted a deal in Arizona’s Tonto National Forest involving property part-owned by Great American Life Insurance, a company run by billionaire Carl H. Lindner Jr., a prolific contributor to national political parties and presidential candidates.”

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:38 am

  528. yeah, i’m from cincy….. & carl linder was dealing w/ colombian terrorist, allowing them to kill innocent people for bananas(chiquita)…….. the craziest part of that post is if u look down in the right hand corner it says there are over a million iraqi’s dead…….. from this war……. if ayers is a terrorist…..that has been allowed to teach young men & women (@ a major university) what do u call over a million iraqi’s dead from this war? what do u call sen. strum thurmond? or sen. helms? they were a part of a group that wanted to hang blacks from trees? if they were in th senate don’t u think they were in contact w/ senator mccain? what do u think they talked about? martin luther king day?(& voting against it) point is there are domestic terrorist in our senate & congress that divide our country over skin color, religion, & other perosonal issues………… yall should stop hating & figure out how to start congratulating obama……………. damn, white people can’t rule the world forever………….. share the wealth……….. spread it around… we’ll all live longer…

    Comment by citizen x (868954) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:39 am

  529. The co-host of a recent top-dollar fundraiser for Sen. John McCain oversaw the payment of roughly $1.7 million to a Colombian paramilitary group that is today designated a terrorist organization by the United States.

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:40 am

  530. Over the course of the presidential campaign, John McCain has repeatedly emphasized his willingness to stand up to Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin as proof that only he possesses the fortitude and judgment to become the next leader of the free world. In his acceptance speech at the Republican convention, McCain lashed out at Putin and the Russian oligarchs, who, “rich with oil wealth and corrupt with power…[are] reassembling the old Russian Empire.” McCain rushed to publicly support the Georgian republic during its recent conflict with Russia and amplified his threat to expel Moscow from the G-8 club of major powers.

    Yet despite McCain’s tough talk, behind the scenes his top advisers have cultivated deep ties with Russia’s oligarchy–indeed, they have promoted the Kremlin’s geopolitical and economic interests, as well as some of its most unsavory business figures, through greedy cynicism and geopolitical stupor. The most notable example is the tale of how McCain and his campaign manager, Rick Davis, advanced what became a key victory for the Kremlin: gaining control over the small but strategically important country of Montenegro.

    According to two former senior US diplomats who served in the Balkans, Davis and his lobbying firm, Davis Manafort, received several million dollars to help run Montenegro’s independence referendum campaign of 2006. The terms of the agreement were never disclosed to the public, but top Montenegrin officials told the US diplomats that Davis’s work was underwritten by powerful Russian business interests connected to the Kremlin and operating in Montenegro. Neither Davis nor the McCain campaign responded to repeated requests for comment. (Davis’s extensive lobbying work, especially on behalf of collapsed mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, has already attracted critical media scrutiny.)

    At the time, Putin wanted to establish a Russian outpost in the Mediterranean, and Montenegro–a coastal republic across the Adriatic from Italy–was seen as his best hope. McCain also lobbied for Montenegro’s independence from Serbia, calling it “the greatest European democracy project since the end of the cold war.” For McCain, the simplistic notion of “independence” from a country America had gone to war with in the late 1990s was all that mattered. What Montenegro looked like after independence seemed not to interest him. This suited Putin just fine. Russia had generally sided with Serbia against the West during the Balkan wars of the 1990s, but for the Kremlin, cutting Montenegro free from Serbia meant dealing with a Montenegro that could be more easily controlled. Indeed, today, after its “independence,” Montenegro is nicknamed “Moscow by the Mediterranean.” Russian oligarchs control huge chunks of the country’s industry and prized coastline–and Russians exert a powerful influence over the country’s political culture. “Montenegro is almost a new Russian colony, as rubles flow in to buy property and business in the tiny state,” Denis MacShane, Tony Blair’s former Europe minister, wrote in Newsweek in June. The takeover of Montenegro has been a Russian geostrategic victory–quietly accomplished, paradoxically enough, with the help of McCain and his top aides.

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:47 am

  531. In mid-September The Nation’s website published a photo of McCain celebrating his seventieth birthday in Montenegro in August 2006 at a yacht party hosted by convicted Italian felon Raffaello Follieri and his movie-star girlfriend Anne Hathaway. On the same day one of the largest mega-yachts in the world, the Queen K, was moored in the same bay of Kotor. This was where the real party was. The owner of the Queen K was known as “Putin’s oligarch”: Oleg Deripaska, controlling shareholder of the Russian aluminum giant RusAl, currently listed as the ninth-richest man in the world, with a rap sheet as abundant as his wealth. By mid-2005 Deripaska had already virtually taken control of Montenegro’s economy by snapping up its aluminum plant, KAP–which accounts for up to 40 percent of the country’s GDP and some 80 percent of its export earnings–in a nontransparent privatization tender strongly criticized by NGO watchdogs, Montenegrin politicians and journalists. The Nation has learned that Deripaska told one of his closest associates that he bought the plant “because Putin encouraged him to do it.” The reason: “the Kremlin wanted an area of influence in the Mediterranean.”

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:48 am

  532. It is funny how the republicans always turn to character attacks and half truths when they are behind. I praise the Dems for not making McCain’s relationship with G. Gordon Liddy or his part in the Keeting 5 the main issue in their campaign. I don’t even think they have mentioned Palin’s being guilty of violating the Alaskan ethics code. The GOP really needs to learn a lesson from Colon Powel.

    Comment by Tim (026e30) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:49 am

  533. Tim – good point. Obama has not resorted to these slimeball tactics. That alone tells me who is the better man.

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:51 am

  534. ________________________________________

    The truth about the Ayers link is that Barack Obama was 8 years old when that happened and Ayers,

    But the leftism (or ultra-liberalism) that makes Obama so comfortable with kooks like Ayers and Wright—who was Obama’s advisor and “sounding board” right up until the bitter end (meaning until the moment that negative publicity forced Obama to throw Wright under the bus)—is as fresh as spring daisies or winter snow.

    Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was the most liberal senator in 2007, according to National Journal’s 27th annual vote ratings. The insurgent presidential candidate shifted further to the left last year in the run-up to the primaries, after ranking as the 16th- and 10th-most-liberal during his first two years in the Senate.

    The ratings system — devised in 1981 under the direction of William Schneider, a political analyst and commentator, and a contributing editor to National Journal — also assigns “composite” scores, an average of the members’ issue-based scores. In 2007, Obama’s composite liberal score of 95.5 was the highest in the Senate. Rounding out the top five most liberal senators last year were Sens. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., with a composite liberal score of 94.3; Joseph Biden, D-Del., with a 94.2;

    And since people like you tend to be so deficient in both common sense and and true, sincere generosity, what the hell are you good for??!
    ________________________________________

    Comment by Mark (748dc7) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:51 am

  535. Black Water is already preparing for civil war! The Republican Illuminati’s have already prepared for the Socialist.

    Better yet there will be Sharia Law if Obama wins and America will be clean up of all the filth they (DEMOCRAPS & Some REPUGBLICANS) have propagated to the rest of the world. Obama will have set a course he can’t change. Obama will recant his little “c” christianity.

    No more Hollywood, Entertainment Industry and Perversion. Those that voted for him will not have the last laugh. Marriage will be between a man and woman and no child will be aborted, everyone will be fruitful and multiply ;-) HA HAA!!!! Judgment Day Cometh… Soon!

    Comment by W (6c5052) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:55 am

  536. First of all, I’d like to make it clear – I’m not American. I can’t vote. But before you all discount me, this election run has been the most exciting soap opera I’ve ever watched. I watched as Clinton and Obama fought for the nomination. I watched Clinton throw everything she had and then some whilst Obama stood patiently by; waiting for his strategy to pay off. In the end he won not because he was more experienced (despite Clinton’s false resume, she’s in some ways better qualified to be President) but because he was smarter and far more inspiring as a person. Now the battle is with McCain and once again, Obama looks set to win. There are problems yet to overcome of course. But most importantly, he’s playing the same game of calm and patience as he did in the primaries. While McCain is also throwing everything he’s got. Now there can be no question he’s more experienced yet I have to say, he is less qualified. I read the comments on this blog and all I see is a disunited state of America. Even if you overlook the party divisions; disagreements over which candidate to support etc… some of the comments here are trashing the state of Chicago. And over what? A rather flimsy excuse: it’s association with Ayers. From what I understand, Ayers is no foreigner. He’s one of you. A terrorist is far too strong a word to describe him; the real terrorists hate America. This man loves the US but like some protesters, chose the wrong way to go about showing it. He made bombs – non-lethal bombs. The facts have been skewed beyond recognition, he killed no one, these bombs did not even have the capacity to bring down sand castles not to talk of buildings. I see the Weather Underground as a 70s day Code Pink or other radical groups that try to vent their anger at the way the system works. With the Weather Underground perhaps things got out of hand; they did not live in an era where passive approaches were more effective. But in any case, you should all judge a man by his actions more than by those of the people around him. Ayers made mistakes, you have too. But with McCain trumping these mistakes as justification of Obama’s inadequacy… all he’s doing is stoking the divisions. The world stood by mildly amused as you voted Bush in twice because he was a regular joe. Now many of you regret that decision, yet you’re on the verge of making that choice again. If Obama wins it will be because he mapped out a clean strategy made his pitch and you voted him in. If McCain wins it will be because he stoked your deepest fears, by feeding you with half-truths and innuendo. The sad irony is on paper McCain trumps Obama. But what he gains on paper he fails to project in person; he is not a good leader. And so in person Obama wins.
    But the choice is yours to make, not mine.

    Comment by Unassociated (d5678e) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:02 am

  537. Thank you Unassociated. BINGO!

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:07 am

  538. If McCain wins it will be because he stoked your deepest fears, by feeding you with half-truths and innuendo.

    Stop with all the blah, blah. If McCain were a liberal, you’d be calling him an honorable, honest campaigner. In turn, if Obama were a conservative, you’d be hollering “Jeremiah Wright is a freaky bigot and for Obama to be embracing a person like him is a frightening thought!!”

    Comment by Mark (748dc7) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:09 am

  539. Okay, Mark. Good bye and thank you for sharing. Have a wonderful day!

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:29 am

  540. Obama’s quest for presidence did not start yesterday. There is something special about the man and we have to accept that fact. Let the best govern. Maccain on ther had is old and he has too much anger in him. Why vote for a man who start lit a fire and die without extinguishing it. Maccain anger scares shit out of me.

    Comment by kilo saba (e4f777) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:33 am

  541. Guess you guys do not really know what is happening to your country or rather have chosen to chase shadow. Look beyond your hatred and see that the power is your hands to build or destroy your country. I am not an American and cannot vote for any of the candidates but for real I see disUnited State of America, some who are ready for change and those who look for every excuse possible to remain where they are for fear of the unknown.

    Comment by Unknown (481014) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:42 am

  542. So, are you looking at Liddy that admired Hitler and ordered to be people killed on his radio show? Are we looking at Mccain’s association to Gen Singlaub? What is he hiding there? Are you looking at Palin’s relationship with AIP? Ayers never killed anyone. People in his group accidently died by their own hands. Ayers wasn’t even around when that happened. Ayers and Obama worked together on the Annenberg Foundation. Ayers did not recruit Obama to work there. People at the foundation did and they even stated that fact and found these allegations to be ridiculous. The Annenbergs contribute to the Mccain campaign. Does that make him a terrorist? One of his top advisors was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein. Does that make Mccain a terrorist? Get your facts straight. Why don’t you look into Mccain’s early career and how he got started. People are trying to find anything to discredit Obama, but want to ignore others. Thank God Obama is not lowering himself to smear tactics.

    Comment by Unkknown (f7a9f0) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:13 am

  543. You’ll have to erase what’s on my computer, too. You sick terrorists. America needs to wake up!!! Seriously! When he gets elected president, which I have a feeling he will because everyone in America is blind, then we will be saying, ” Oh, why didn’t I see what he really was?”. It will be too late, though, because we will be screwed. Everyone needs to start being cautious with their money and families because things are going to get ugly here soon!

    Comment by Lorissa (d31494) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:20 am

  544. Please check out PA lawyer Berg’s lawsuit regarding Obama’s birth certificate. He makes valid points and there are conflicting “facts.”

    Comment by Dr. Grace M. Foutain (01f313) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:24 am

  545. I think you can safely ignore anybody who tells you to check the Berg lawsuit. Berg has multiple layers of tinfoil hats and is a pretty poor lawyer, too.

    Comment by Max Firmin (a9d0ee) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:06 am

  546. John McCain will lose this election in the most embarrassing way possible. He will lose in:

    Florida
    Ohio
    Virginia
    Pennsylvania
    Nevada
    Colorado
    Missouri (maybe)

    He will not need to throw himself a victory party – millions of people across America will be throwing one for him.

    Comment by Dude (e56d31) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:39 am

  547. And of course by “he,” I meant Barack Obama.

    Comment by Dude (e56d31) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:40 am

  548. “some who are ready for change and those who look for every excuse possible to remain where they are for fear of the unknown….”

    We do not “fear the unknown.” Because we are not blinded by the charm and charisma, we SEE Obama for what he is. Some people are so blinded by Obama, they are willing to follow him into the unknown. Wouldn’t you at least agree that anyone who is not not as charismatic as Obama, who would try to peddle socialism in the US would have been unanimously booed off the state??? Not even Bill Clinton, when he ran for president, dared to be so openly far left!!! When we hear “spread the wealth” we KNOW full well who we’re dealing with here. It’s the Obama supporters who are blinded!

    Comment by was independent (b6446f) — 10/21/2008 @ 6:01 am

  549. Comment by Unkknown — 10/21/2008 @ 4:13 am

    Someday, the human race will have technology that makes intergalactic space travel possible. However, I’m unconvinced that we will ever create a vehicle capable of spanning the immeasurably vast distance between the point of the Obama/Ayers relationship and you.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/21/2008 @ 6:31 am

  550. Unknown, you are the one who are ignorant of the facts. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama worked at Sidley Austin, where Bill Ayers’ wealthy family had gotten Bernadine Dohrn, Ayers’ wife, a job working as an intern. ( As Dohrn’s criminal past as a terrorist prevented her from obtaining a law license – yet more evidence of the Obama’s knowledge of Dohrn/Ayers’ past ).

    That’s where the Obama’s met the Ayers’, long before the CAC ever heard of Obama.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 6:48 am

  551. Unassociated, terrorist is the perfect word to describe Ayers. He tried to overthrow the government of the US through the use of violence aimed at non-combatants.

    Oh, and by the way, Chicago is not a state, it is a city. How is Hamas doing writing out your talking points for you?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 6:52 am

  552. To #275. Your slew of profanity is not getting your point across. It makes you sound ignorant and people tend to ignore the “opinions” of ignorant people. I’m sure I’ll get more of the same after I post this, but unlike Obama and his minions I’m fine with others expressing views that differ from mine. Just try to keep it clean.

    Bottom line…there are too many questions about Obama. They are not made up. Voter fraud, his associations, how he got a $1 million+ house when he was a Community Organizer (you know, the house he toured with Rezko). His extreme views on abortion, his Socialist ideology, the list goes on and on.

    This is the United States not the United Way. We are all given a hand in life and we do the best we can with it. It is not fair to take from those who have worked hard throughout their life to give their money away to those who haven’t.

    The sense of entitlement by some people in this country is amazing! If you want something work for it!!

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:03 am

  553. There are no questions about McCain because he is already filthy dirty. We just don’t want to go there. I, for one, am sick of these skeletons – everyone has them. Tell me someone that is clean! Since Barack is new, the conservatives think you have pounced on something new – a crooked politician! Oh my – could it be????

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:23 am

  554. My only point here is that we spend a lot of time talking about associations (both in regards to Obama and McCain). I have yet to see ANY politician who has made it to the point of running for president without having made questionable acquaintances or bad judgment calls. It happens.

    The key thing I am interested in is what did these guys learn from their mistakes and how does this help them be better for our country now and into the future?

    At this time, I am still undecided. But I’m choosing to focus on the issues that affect me, my family, my neighborhood and my country. That is of more substance that who’s living room Obama gave a speech in or how many times McCain praised ACORN years ago.

    Comment by Brian (6f3b5c) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:26 am

  555. But I really question the paranoia and hatred spewing out of Repubs mouths. How can this help the country? Your opinion about either – is just that – but why the obsession to have someone discredited to the extent they are going? There is a possibility you are WRONG about Obama. However, there is no way in hell we are wrong about McCain. He is old and unfit, he is angry and losing his mental capabilities. This anger is now widespread, the economy is a disaster – what is the purpose of the slime ball tactics? Why did he pick someone as VP just for votes? Obama picked someone to help lead. Palin will lead us back into the 19th century because there is no way mCcain’s poor health can handle the stress. We are looking for hope, perhaps?! Obama is the best choice. And with the joining of Powell, the Repub really should calm down. I have yet to hear of an appointment by McCain that isn’t already hanging out in the gutter.

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:31 am

  556. Comment by DAWN — 10/21/2008 @ 9:31 am

    Politics being criticized by someone who has no idea how politics work, and who has no respect for her elders – or betters.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:45 am

  557. DAWN – Your sources are great. If all that stuff about Montenegro is nonpublic, how did the Nation find out? Are they guessing? Did McCain confirm? Have you ever heard the term Banana Republic?

    Do you have some examples of McCain’s anger? It seems to be a nade up theme on the left that keeps popping up.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:49 am

  558. Hey Sox Girl, since when did John McCain get all squeaky clean in your book????

    I personally resented having my hard-earned tax dollars go to the 124 Billion S & L disaster which McCain helped create with his pal Charles Keating.

    McCain’s new economic plan is business as usual–give himself, his family and friends bigger tax breaks while cutting services for the rest of us.

    Funny how Republicans talk about “class warfare” when that is all they have been doing for the last 8 years: How many millions more are now living in poverty than 8 years ago? How many more of us have seen our wages stagnate, prices go up, and the value of our real property erode in the last 8 years? And how much RICHER have the top 5% of this country’s citizenry become–too often NOT through hard work, but fraud and market manipulation.

    You call Obama “extreme”–how much more extreme can you get than Enron traders making fun of senior citizens frightened in the dark because they can’t pay their electricity, the scumbags laughing at wildfires saying “burn, baby, burn” (Definitely Sarah Palin supporters there). There’s Republican Deregulation at it’s best!

    Finally I must say something about your most odd harangue on “sense of entitlement.” Your candidate, Mr. McCaine, is a TOTAL PRODUCT of entitlement. Son of an Admiral, he has consistently used (some would say mis-used) his personal connections to advance his career ahead of smarter and more qualified people. I disagree with affirmative action, but I really disaprove of silver-spooned whiners like McCaine who really know very little about the hard work of we wage-earners. You trust this guy with your health insurance? McCaine’s had the best health care the goverment can buy for him with your and my tax dollars literally from the day he was born. Talk about Socialism!

    If you’re just disgruntled about the Red Sox loss then cheer up–you’re soon to get a new, energetic president interested in unifying and moving the country forward–not back into the (Enron) dark ages.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:53 am

  559. 555-
    no problemo with your clueless rhetoric. There is little doubt that you’ve partaken of the Obama kool-aid. Please tgell us from whence you came? Yahoo news? Lots of yahoos from Yahoo apparently.
    Why aren’t you over at DailyKos/HuffPost/DU/Moron.org or codepinko extolling the virtues of the magic negro. Oh, btw, the incandescent liberal Ehrenstein first use the magic negro term. What gets me are all the glowing references to has been/never was assclowns who are endorsing Obama. No surprise that Zbigniew Brzezinki would throw his support to BO, but Washington Post refers to Zig as “a paragon of foeign policy eminence”. God help us if that jackass is helping set foreign policy. I have to wonder how many of these esteemed jerkwads want a position in an Obama administration. Funny, I just saw that even that surpreme prevaricator Dan Blather recognizes the media bias for Obama. Pigs do fly.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:56 am

  560. So who ever said that Obama was never in William Ayer’s living room? McCain parties with Joe “Bananas” Bonnano on his birthday, I suppose that makes McCain a mafioso, doesn’t it?

    But I would expect no less from you dumb right-wing conspiracy fucks.

    Comment by Light Of Reason (29dd1f) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:13 am

  561. Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/21/2008 @ 9:53 am

    Dear Jerry…If you had half of the charm of your many TV guests…(oh, right! You’re not THAT Jerry – just someone who thinks he’s being witty. Well, you’re half right about that.)

    If you had taken the time to read the report to the Senate Cmte on Ethics compiled by Mr. Bennett, you would have discovered that Sen. McCain did nothing to advance the interests of Mr. Keating, or any other S&L owner, he did not attempt to divert any investigation away from Mr. Keating, or to stop any investigation of Mr. Keating. He only asked that any action(s) against Mr.Keating be in full compliance with the rules of the agency conducting that action.
    In otherwords, he wanted to ensure FAIRNESS!

    And, you sir, are an asshat!

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:14 am

  562. Hi Another Drew

    So John McCain receiving $112,000 from Keating in campaign contributions as well as personal vacation junkets to the Bahamas for himself, his family and babysitter (now there’s a hard-working man of the people!) and was reprimanded by the same Senate Ethics Report you mention as having “exercised poor judgement in intervening with regulators” squares with you as McCain is a stand-up-guy who will try to protect my interests from large scale defrauders and market manipulators.

    I would say to you sir, if the Asshat fits, wear it!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:39 am

  563. And you, JS, never read the full report by Mr. Bennett, nor his subsequent comments on this matter, nor the testimony of Sen McCain in the Keating trial here in L.A. re Lincoln Savings.
    You are confusing what Sen Cranston did, with what Sen McCain did not!

    Have a Nice Day!

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:44 am

  564. Daleyrocks – McCain’s Anger:

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081006/schanberg

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:50 am

  565. Empires have come and gone, first there was Britian, Spain, Portguese and even Roman Empure.

    What is it going to take for Americans to realize

    Some of you try to make it look like Mcain has no skeletons hidden in his closet. Obama is decent enough not expose him. Mcain realize it and that’s why he keeps hammering Obama.

    I am glad that Obama has refused to go to his level. Just Remember Empires have come and gone. America is not the first Super power throught history. On of the reason Empires like Russia etc have fallen is because arrogance, ignorance and pride. One announcer once declared that we will never go back to depression because we have bullet proof our markets. Such arrogance.

    America needs to look hard and see which direction it is heading. China will be the next Super Power here soon, if this ignorance continues among people. Kindergarten politics should stop immediately and real issues should be addressed, ie The Economy situation. Why don’t we all argue about real issues at hand. People are losing their jobs etc.

    Comment by looking into the future (09a991) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:53 am

  566. Comment by DAWN — 10/21/2008 @ 10:50 am

    Well, there’s a completely unbiased source – sort of like citing PRAVDA, or GRANMA!

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:54 am

  567. McCain is old and losing mental capabilities – how many times did he mention Autism in the 3rd debate and how close it is to Palin heart? Well news flash, her child does not have autism. He has Downs Syndrome. Quite a bit of a difference. But the point I want to make is – no one corrected him because he is “Old and in the Way” Just agree with the old man and maybe he will go away. Dems aren’t bringing up Lindner, Liddy, Putin, Follieri, Parsley because we want to move forward. We just want him to go away. He represents archaic policies – it’s time to try something that just might work!

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:55 am

  568. Yes, like Scientific-Socialism?

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:57 am

  569. Hi Another Drew

    Let’s get down to brass tacks here.

    Do you think Senator McCain acted improperly in meeting with federal regulators who were trying to investigate Charles Keating?

    Do you think he excerized undue political pressure on Charles Keatings behalf to stall an inquiry?

    Do you agree that he exercized “poor judgement”?

    Just a simple Yes or No will do Drew.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:59 am

  570. Another Drew: And the references you use for the Obama bashing with Ayers in the 1960′s is unbiased and pertinent for the present?

    Someone wanted a link to show McCain’s anger. I gave it to them. He did scream and yell at this woman’s whose brother was still a POW.

    Honey child, this grandma is not quite as closed minded as you. You must be just too smart to read The Nation. But all media contains some facts – I listen to both sides. Did you even read the article or you just discount it immediately?

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:03 am

  571. Do you know an Empire falls, and another one goes up?

    I am not from this Country. The kind of Campaign Mcain is running is no different from a third world.

    Name calling, lies, etc. The whole world is watching closely. What has happened to America!

    Comment by looking into the future (09a991) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:07 am

  572. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081006/schanberg

    Comment by DAWN — 10/21/2008 @ 10:50 am

    Oh yes, “The Nation” – there’s an excellent source.

    Unfortunately for you, Rush Limbaugh already debunked this.

    Over: Dawn gets my hilarious and subtle irony

    Under: Dawn doesn’t and responds with some Rush Limbaugh/drug gibberish

    Takers?

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:14 am

  573. McCain is old and losing mental capabilities – how many times did he mention Autism in the 3rd debate and how close it is to Palin heart?

    It’s entirely possible that it _IS_ important to her.

    Well news flash, her child does not have autism. He has Downs Syndrome.

    The two ideas are not exculsive.

    Quite a bit of a difference. But the point I want to make is – no one corrected him because he is “Old and in the Way”

    No one corrected him because that could’ve been what he wanted to say.

    Oh, that and it’s a debate and it isn’t anyone’s job to correct him.

    Just agree with the old man and maybe he will go away.

    Now we’re talking about Biden?

    Dems aren’t bringing up Lindner, Liddy, Putin, Follieri, Parsley because we want to move forward.

    Lindner’s best move was to sell a controlling share of the Reds to Bob Castellini. Bob C’s best move has been bringing Walt Jocketty in and we’ll see what he does in a full off-season. The Reds really need good up-the-middle D and a slugger to play left who hits RHP. Some guys think Matt Holliday would be good but the cost might be too dear for a one-year rental (Boras client) and his road splits are slightly worrisome.

    We just want him to go away. He represents archaic policies – it’s time to try something that just might work!

    Comment by DAWN — 10/21/2008 @ 10:55 am

    Yeah, let’s turn it over to the guy with 190 days in the Senate because he’s an OK orator.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:21 am

  574. You are right. I am wrong. 4 more years!

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:24 am

  575. You are right. I am wrong. 4 more years! It’s been a true joy trying to actually converse. Continue your smearing and mudslinging with your closed mind. It obviously makes you feel superior.

    Comment by DAWN (b8371b) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:27 am

  576. Dear Republicans

    I’m a little confused about John McCain’s tax cut plan.

    Can you please tell me how much He, his wife and his convicted felon father-in-law personally stand to benefit from his plan.

    I think the combined figure is somewhere in the millions of dollars but I’m not sure and would greatly appreciate your clarity on this issue.

    Thank you for your patience.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:36 am

  577. P.S.

    Also would like to know how much his proposed government bail-out of morgages at old inflated value will personally benefit his seven or is it eight homes that he owns.

    Thanks!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:41 am

  578. google also have maria warren article
    by yuenck

    searching with

    site:warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.­com Thursday, January 27, 2005

    I got

    Musings & Migraines: 01/23/2005 – 01/30/2005 –

    Thursday, January 27, 2005. Get to know Barack Obama When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the livingroom of …
    warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_archive.html – 186k

    http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:95PEPADtSscJ:warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_archive.html+site:warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com+Thursday,+January+27,+2005&hl=zh-CN&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=sg

    google caches get refreshed quickly however and the entry may not be around for much longer

    also in yahoo

    http://74.6.146.244/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=site%3Awarrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com+Thursday%2C+January+27%2C+2005&fr=yfp-t-web&u=warrenpeacemuse.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_archive.html&w=thursday+thursdays+january+27+2005&d=bhS_OELURhSh&icp=1&amp;.intl=sg

    Comment by yuenck (2522db) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:45 am

  579. #561 Thank you Drew. And how soon people forget that there were four others involved in the Keating scandal (all Democrats) none of whom even appeared at the hearings…McCain was the only one who showed up.

    And no, to Jerry Springer I am not disgruntled over the Red Sox lost. They lost fair and square…with ACORN and others I doubt we’ll be able to say the same about McCain if he loses.

    I’m sure McCain isn’t perfect, no one is, but yes I do trust him with the country and my healthcare. He’s dedicated his entire life to this country and could easily have retired long ago but continues serving. That to me shows great character, not someone who has a silver spoon in their mouth.

    I had the pleasure of meeting Senator McCain at a rally in Boston in 2000 and I was very upset when Bush beat him. I think our country would be in a lot better shape today had McCain won then.

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:51 am

  580. Bill Ayers contribution to Obama campaign: $200

    Charles Keating contributions to McCain campaigns: $112,000

    Which person do you think has more “access”?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:52 am

  581. Seems everyone is giving to Obama under the level that requires your name, address, and employer. Coincidence? Don’t think so.

    McCain has all of his donors listed on his web site and Obama refuses to release his.

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:06 pm

  582. NEWSFLASH!!!!

    ABRAHAM LINCOLN PALS AROUND WITH TERRORISTS!

    In a photograph of his second inauguration President Lincoln can clearly be seen with a mysterious mustachioed man in top hat, barely 30 feet away.

    A few weeks later the same man was seen entering Lincoln’s box at Ford’s Theater where he spent many unobserved seconds with the president……BEFORE SHOOTING HIM IN THE HEAD.

    Obama “pals around” with Ayers like Lincoln was “good friends” with John Wilkes Booth.

    Can you fantasists please go back to you copies of Heavy Metal while we inquire about $ub$tantive i$$ues here.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:09 pm

  583. Hey Jerry, just a question:
    When was the last time Sen. McCain accepted a contribution from Charles Keating?
    Would that be before the time he told Mr. Keating that what he was asking him (John McCain) to do was improper, and he would not intervene with the S&L regulators on his (Keatings’) behalf.

    And, the answer to your question in #569 is, I have complete confidence that President McCain will deal with problems confronting the United States with the best interests of the American People in the forefront of his thoughts, and actions.

    You, are still confusing the deads of Senator Alan Cranston (D-CA) with the non-deeds of Sen. McCain.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:18 pm

  584. sorry, “deeds”, not “deads”.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:20 pm

  585. Hi Sox Girl

    Maybe you know how much McCain et famiglia stand to gain from his tax cut plan?

    Please thrill the rest of us with your acumen!

    Interesting thing about the under $200 anonymous contributions–I heard Republicans were initally leading the charge there because they wanted Obama to defeat Hillary–guess it kinda back-fired there Joe Six-pack, eh?

    Send me your address and I’ll ship you out a case of staws so you’ll have something new to grasp at.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:21 pm

  586. A Lincoln reference? Seriously? I wouldn’t call that a substantive issue at this day and age.

    Bottom line is Obama is inexperienced. Would you make an intern CEO because they were good at making speeches?

    Do you think the leaders of countries who are our enemies like him because they think he’s good for our country or good for their country?

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:25 pm

  587. Hey Drew,

    Still waiting on simple yes or no answers to my 3 questions.

    Sorry but, like for John McCain, evasion and changing the subject won’t help you here.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:27 pm

  588. Well done Sox Girl,

    You did grasp my Lincoln story was facetious.

    You just failed to grasp the analogy that discussing Bill Ayres in this campaign is equally foolish.

    Then again irony has always been a weak point with the “Straight Talk Express”–it forces McCain to reverse himself so many times on any given issue I’m amazed he hasn’t stipped the gears totally by now. Though some claiming he has a few screws loose as a result I think is unfair–his performance over the last two months certainly proves he is definitely screwed-up tight.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:39 pm

  589. Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/21/2008 @ 12:27 pm

    See #583!

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:45 pm

  590. #A Lincoln reference? Seriously? I wouldn’t call that a substantive issue at this day and age.

    Comment by Sox Girl — 10/21/2008 @ 12:25 pm

    I wouldn’t call any “issue” posted by “Jerry,” substantive.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:52 pm

  591. P.S.

    As regards your CEO comment–do I really want a guy who graduated 5th from the bottom of his class and used nepotism to get ahead whenever and whereever he could to run this country? I know president of the Harvard Law Review (where he put prominent Republicans on his editorial board) and US Senator are just small accomplishments in your book.

    Let’s make the choice clear: if there was something broken in your own home would you hire John McCain or Barack Obama to fix it?

    My sense of McCain is that he would first form a commission to study the problem, then hire some personal friends to execute the work at above market rates and then if there were any problems I would be told I was being Un-American to suggest getting value for dollar.

    Do I really want someone who apparently will say and do anything to be elected president to be my leader? McCain’s placards read “Country First” but he really comes across as McCain First.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:54 pm

  592. Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/21/2008 @ 12:54 pm

    Well, not one bit of the previous poo flung by this monkey-girl has stuck to the wall; so, it’s off on another tangent further down the talking-points memo.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 12:57 pm

  593. Like I said. Ayers aside, I think Obama is inexperienced and it worries me that his own running mate says our enemies will test us in his first six months. I don’t want another 9/11 and I don’t want someone inexperienced who has said he won’t listen to his advisors if he disagrees. Too arrogant for me.

    Plus I don’t agree with his views on abortion and “spreading the wealth”. We could argue all day but it’s unlikely either of us will change our minds about who the next President of the United States should be.

    However, I am bothered by others blanket terms about Republicans or Democrats. Republicans are this…Democrats are that etc.

    That’s another reason I like McCain, because he works in and outside of his party. A lot of very right wing conservatives think McCain is too liberal so how do you think they feel about Obama…and how difficult a time do you think he’d have “crossing the aisle” based on that?

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:00 pm

  594. Hey CW Desiato

    McCain’s previous involvment in a multi-billion dollar deregulation meltdown isn’t “substantive”?

    Shall we get your pronouncements on transubstantiation as you obviously have a hotline to God.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:00 pm

  595. Hey CW Desiato

    McCain’s previous involvment in a multi-billion dollar deregulation meltdown isn’t “substantive”?

    Shall we get your pronouncements on transubstantiation as you obviously have a hotline to God.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:01 pm

  596. I would just like to comment on all those who say that white Americas can’t stomach supporting Barak Obama for president. Umm…. how do you think he won the Democratic nomination? Caucasions are still the majority in this country the last time I looked. Stop pulling the race card – it doesn’t fly and only perpetuates bad feelings.

    And just for the record, I’m white and support Obama so stop calling ME racist. You racists.

    Comment by independent (2dd8b3) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:19 pm

  597. Better try to record some of the meta-data on that, too. Browser history that lead you to it, date you downloaded it, etc. They will obviously say you manipulated the file.

    Comment by Mitchell Young (d3f200) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:21 pm

  598. McCain has a higher IQ than Obama, and although Obama says he was President of the Harvard Law Review they have no record of that.

    So what if McCain didn’t do well as a young Naval Officer? He was young and having a good time, which I guess is the same thing Obama was doing when he wrote about his Marijuana and Cocaine use in his book.

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:26 pm

  599. My bad. I did finally find something that ties him to the Harvard Law Review however it was not very flattering about the kind of job he did.

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:30 pm

  600. Hey CW Desiato

    McCain’s previous involvment in a multi-billion dollar deregulation meltdown isn’t “substantive”?

    If you think anyone besides yourself has any idea what you’re talking about, I’d consider getting one of those jackets with the sleeves that fasten in back and book a room at the “padded-wall Marriot” because you’re hearing things.

    Shall we get your pronouncements on transubstantiation as you obviously have a hotline to God.

    Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/21/2008 @ 1:00 pm

    Sure!

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:48 pm

  601. DAWN – I’m unclear why you bring up the Lindner information. Are you suggesting McCain was aware of his activities in Colombia? If so, could you provide some proof please?

    For those Obamatards who keep bringing up Keating, could you please detail the intervention you imagine that McCain actually performed on Keating’s behalf? Apart from a meeting which he attended, there appears to be no acrual intervention on the record. Perhaps you leftards have some double secret invented intervention which magically appeared this election cycle. Stranger things have happened.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:54 pm

  602. Jerry – I would much rather have McCain fix things around my house. There is actual evidence he knows how things work. The only thing Obama has run is his mouth.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:56 pm

  603. “McCain’s previous involvment in a multi-billion dollar deregulation meltdown isn’t “substantive”?”

    Jerry -No. What involvement? Can you be specific for a change?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:59 pm

  604. Really, I ask my question again:

    Would any of you pro-McCain supporters actually put him in charge of fixing something in your own home?

    [Personal friends of John McCain & Sarah Palin needn't answer the question as we already know they can fiddle the permits for you]

    I am neither a personal friend of McCain nor Obama. That said I don’t expect to get special treatment from either of them. So in terms of General Competence who do I put in charge? McCain really seems like a throw-back to 19th Century thinking: policies revolving around the acquisition and maintenance of oil reserves. Good old John D. Rockefeller at his best. And while the United States and various arab nations (friendly and unfriendly) continue the petroleum Dance of Death all our capitalist competitors–the European Union, Japan, China, etc.–steal a technological march on our superiority.

    It was a bunch of German “barbarians” who sacked the Roman Empire. Rome’s fall was certainly due in part to a rich and decadent oligarchy who’d lost touch with changing conditions. I don’t want to see America become a “service nation” of hired mercenaries for rich countries who can afford to outsource their crap jobs because we missed the boat on stem cell research, solar and battery technology, etc.

    Do you really trust McCain to make decisions good for the America of 10, 15, 20 years down the road when he may well die (of natural causes) in his first term in office? (Sorry to quote George W., but “in history we’ll all be dead” seems to relate more to McCain than Bush.) And do you really trust Sarah Palin, governor of a state whose population is less than the city of San Francisco, to exercise the reigns of power with the proper intelligence, fortitude and courage to represent all Americans? Do you really?

    General Powell and Peggy Noonan are not discredited members of the lunatic fringe nor Democratic Party Hacks. They don’t trust the McCain/Palin ticket–why do you?

    Other than being against Obama, what are you people really for here?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 1:59 pm

  605. Hey Daleyrocks

    To quote the Senate Ethics Report on the Keating affair, McCain “exercised poor judgement in intervening with regulators” pursuing the investigation of Charles Keating.

    Perhaps you do not call this “involvment” nor agree with McCain’s own statement that he excercized “undue political pressure” in the affair.

    If not, please be so good as to characterize McCain’s, ah, proximity to this scandal?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:12 pm

  606. I’m not defending Ayers’ actions, but let’s be accurate. Ayers did *not* kill anyone.

    You say that as though you know something that the rest of us are not privy to.

    JerrySpringer – Simple question. Yes or No.

    Have you quit kicking your dog?

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:24 pm

  607. If his “proximity” was important, or relevant, I would suspect that the Senate report would have outlined why it was important, JS. Funny how the Dems want to lay a Dem scandal at the feet of the only Senator that was found to be not culpable.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:26 pm

  608. Hey JD–

    I don’t know if Bill Ayers personally killed anyone.

    I do know that he is not advising Mr. Obama.

    I do know that he has not contributed $112,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaign.

    I do know that he has not tried to use any influence or access to Mr. Obama to foil federal regulators attempts to investigate him.

    Now that I’ve answered your question, how about some yes/no answers from the “Straight Talk Express”:

    Do you think Senator McCain acted improperly in meeting with federal regulators who were trying to investigate Charles Keating?

    Do you think he excerized undue political pressure on Charles Keatings behalf to stall an inquiry?

    Do you agree that he exercized “poor judgement”?

    Go on, I dare you.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:37 pm

  609. Oh–and as you are a conservative I’ll take a no response as qui tacet consentire videtur

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:41 pm

  610. Dear Jaaza (#515):

    “The weather underground DID give advance warnings about the bombings that Ayers was involved in. Again I’m not defending his actions, but I think it’s important to be factual.”

    I stand corrected, but these warnings were never given in a manner that would allow the bombings to be stopped. These were never given in cooperation with the police, but despite the police. (Unfortunately the victims of these bombings provide empirical evidence of this).

    We may never know the truth in terms of “who squeezed the trigger (sort of speak)”, but as a member of the weather underground Ayers was culpable of the injuries and murders that resulted therein (because of his actions or lack of). It is a moral equivalency.

    Terrorists usually try to dismiss the murder of their victims (take you pick: God’s will, collateral damage, we didn’t do it, someone else did it, I didn’t do THAT one, etc). Ayers’ choice of justification is meaningless. In fact shrapnel was placed in some of the bombs used by the weather underground. Such usage is designed to kill or maim as many people as possible.

    I wonder if one of your family members was maimed or killed, if you would be so nuanced about the benign nature of Ayers.

    Finally, I wonder if this is the path you really want travel in order to defend Senator Obama? Even the Obama campaign has (truthfully or not) wisely renounced Aryes and his acts.

    Some of Ayers’ victims whether he acknowledges them or not:

    Paul Ragonese was injured in a Weather Underground bombing on June 9, 1970.

    Richard Elrod was paralyzed by a Weather Underground bombing on October 11, 1969.

    Brian V. McDonnell killed by a Weather Underground bomb filled with shrapnel on Feb 16, 1970.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:42 pm

  611. I mean you really want me to vote for someone who is so afraid of David Letterman that he would bother lying to him about the reason for not appearing on his show. And then appear later with a shit-eating grin to say lamely, “I screwed up!”

    This is the leader of the free world?

    This is the guy you think is going to stand up to Osama Bin Laden?

    Have you really thought this one through???????

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:51 pm

  612. Letterman is a NON-ENTITY–and you want me to vote for the guy who is COWED by him??????????

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:51 pm

  613. Jerry, why are you asking the same lame questions?
    I, among others, have already told you, and provided to you the proof of our assertions, that Sen. McCain did not intervene to counter any investigation of Keating.
    Please stop describing to Sen McCain the failings of Senators Cranston, DeConcini, Riegle, and Glenn.
    They are the ones who attempted to side-track any investigation of Keating. John McCain only asked that Mr. Keating be treated as any other citizen being reviewed by the Fed. Gov’t.; no more, no less.
    For that apostasy, he was/is pilloried by those with a complete lack of comprehension of what was done, and what was discovered by the Senates Special Investigator (Mr. Bennett).
    And, his crime was so severe, that he is the only one involved who is still an elected member of the United States Senate.

    Anyway, in respect to the legal minds here, your questions were “asked and answered”.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:52 pm

  614. I CAN’T STAND UP TO DAVID LETTERMAN, BUT I’LL KEEP AMERICA SAFE!

    really?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:53 pm

  615. Jerry – It’s clear that you are not familiar with the history of the so-called “Keating Five” scandal. Apart from actually attending a meeting, McCain did not exercise any influence. He did not request any favors. That is wht rhe investigator requested that he be dropped from the investigation, but the Democrats insisted that he be included so that at least one Republican would remain involved.

    The campaign contributions he received from Keating were prior to the hint of any impoprieties.

    Whoever is writing your talking points needs to brush up on their facts.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:55 pm

  616. Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/21/2008 @ 2:51 pm

    And John McCain felt so bad about Mr. Letterman’s status as a non-entity, that he did go on the program and provided Mr. Letterman with the highest viewership recorded in years for his show.

    Compassion for a lessor being: John McCain lives that compassion.
    As did Sarah Palin, in raising the ratings for another failing show from NYC.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:56 pm

  617. “I mean you really want me to vote for someone who is so afraid of David Letterman that he would bother lying to him about the reason for not appearing on his show.”

    Jerry – Your candidate is asking the American public to vote for him with about ten years missing from his past. I think thats a lot worse than missing Letterman’s show. How about you?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 2:59 pm

  618. Jerry is confused as to what universe he is in, let alone being worried about BHO’s missing years.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:02 pm

  619. So Drew,

    Not to put words in your mouth……but as you seem intent on refusing to answer the question

    YOU DISAGREE with the Senate Ethics Report stating McCain “excercized poor judgement” in the Keating matter.

    Is that correct?

    Sorry to keep harping on this one but it’s really difficult getting a straight answer from the “Straight Talk Express” sometimes.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:06 pm

  620. BHO: The Missing Years?

    Was Barack incarcerated in a mental facility during this time, or was he in a penitentiary for his drug and whore habit?

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:07 pm

  621. Wow! Over 600 comments on this. This is what we in normal society call an orgy of stupidity. Congrats, guys!

    The American public doesn’t care about this. If they did, then they wouldn’t be supporting Obama by an 8 point margin.

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:07 pm

  622. Asked and Answered, AssHat!
    See #583.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:09 pm

  623. And Drew,

    As you seem to have all the answers about the close personal friends of John McCain who are convicted felons in federal court can you please give us the “straight talk” on his father-in-law’s rap sheet.

    We await your edification intensely!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:10 pm

  624. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/21/2008 @ 3:07 pm

    Except, today’s Battleground Poll is 1-point.
    That lead is fading fast, run while you can still get out of town.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:10 pm

  625. Have no idea about his FIL. Why don’t you fill us in with a link to the court proceedings?
    BTW, is his FIL still alive?

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:12 pm

  626. Hey! Keep on talking about this stuff, guys. The American public is too busy showing their support for Obama.

    “Crazy! Not possible” you say? Ah ah ah, not so fast, as Lee Corso would say. Check this out:

    http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/poll_obama_has_narrow_edge_in.php

    INDIANA?! Wow, I rest my case. My only request is that the GOP nominate Palin for the top spot in 2016. I feel like you guys are my friends now, so could you make this happen for a friend? Make it a grass roots effort.

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:15 pm

  627. Jerry – It would help if you knew your material before you made an ass of yourself, but then again making an ass of himself was never an issue the real Springer. Having to leave Cincinnati because you paid hookers with a check is nothing to write home about Jerry.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:16 pm

  628. Jerry – Are you blathering about that FIL convicrion that occurred more than 30 years before McCain met him?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:17 pm

  629. Jerry, just for you I went to Wiki to look up Jim Hensley.
    You’re upset about a violation of post-war rationing rules in 1946, rules that should have ended in Sept., ’45?
    You need to get a grip on reality, for you surely have not demonstrated it here.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:18 pm

  630. Hey Drew

    You really would feel safer under McCain as president?

    I don’t have any ties with the democratic party nor am in any way paid for opinions expressed here.

    What’s your story? Are you a paid member of the RNC or McCain campaign?

    If I’m dealing with a hired professional I’ll lay off and let you get on with your work.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:19 pm

  631. Hey! Keep on talking about this stuff, guys. The American public is too busy showing their support for Obama.

    “Crazy! Not possible” you say? Ah ah ah, not so fast, as Lee Corso would say.

    Well, I saw a poll today that had Obama up in Indiana. Granted, it was 48-46.

    INDIANA?! Wow, I rest my case. My only request is that the GOP nominate Palin for the top spot in 2016. I feel like you guys are my friends now, so could you make this happen for a friend? Make it a grass roots effort.

    Hey, by the way… what polls are you looking at that have the race at 1 point? Can you run Palin’s off-the-cuff speaking abliity through that site to make her sound like JFK? Neato!

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:19 pm

  632. Ohhh! You were referring to a poll conducted by the Tarrance group, which happens to be the namesake of a conservative pollster. See, when I get my news I like to get it from an unbiased source. I know your moms all say you are really handsome and smart, but I don’t think they are selling you the straight potion. Makes sense to me. ‘Perfect sense’, eh?

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:33 pm

  633. Oh I see I’m “blathering” on about something which happened “more than 30 years ago before the candidate met him”–so in other words we’ve finally reached agreement here:

    The Ayers “connection” is as relevant as McCain’s involvement with the Keating 5 and his father-in-law’s conviction in federal court.

    Except we’ve now introduced something about Obama’s “Crack & Whore Habit”

    NEWSFLASH–FOX NEWS REPORTED TODAY:

    OBAMA RECEIVES $200 FROM SON OF UNCLE OF GARDENER OF SECOND COUSIN OF FORMER MANICURIST OF ADOLF HITLER STILL LIVING IN HIDING IN ARGENTINA!

    WILLIE HORTON SAYS “OBAMA’S MY MAN!”

    JAPANESE BOMB PEARL HARBOR WITH PLANS LEAKED BY OBAMA!

    OBAMA EATS ABORTED BABIES FOR BREAKFAST: “I put BROWN sugar on them he proclaims!”

    You guys really aren’t afraid of McCain keeling over in the white house and Sarah Palin in control of the nuclear (pardon me) nucular codes?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:34 pm

  634. Oh sorry forgot–IRONY ALERT, IRONY ALERT–please don’t bother contacting Fox News on the veracity of the previous–I claim copyright and any reuse will require the appropriate clearances and payments.

    Thank you.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:38 pm

  635. Jerry – Tell us about that mother and daughter twosome you got busted for. You’re getting paid by the hour, right?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:43 pm

  636. Funny how this information is useless, but still gets put up on racist blogs. Comparing Obama to Hitler? laughable. Seems whites are more scared of a black male running the country, than Jesus coming back to smite them. First of all, why is it that when a person has dark skin they are immediately considered black American. Obama is of African (literally from Africa, and not a former slave)and American white decent (possibly European), and probably could care less about race. Whites fear repercussion from their dirty deeds, and would deny anyone who could make this country better due to their skin color for fear. I could care less about McCain’s ex wife situation, i care more about how he plans to save this failing country. The same for Obama. You probably are the ones who voted idiot Bush into office for 8 years and now are crying about how much gas is and how your son is a going to be a vegetable for the rest of his life from getting hit with a bomb in Iraq. Now you want the same for another 4 years just because of a mans skin color. Wow, no wonder Asians surpassed us in intelligence a long time ago. The idiots on here actually procreating. Pretty soon we will revert back to the caveman era with all this hillbilly inbreeding. And for the record, all whites aren’t ignorant, nor are all blacks. Break the stereotypes and try to make this world a better place. Without the idiots pushing scare tactics on here. I thought the Boogey man was just a myth.

    Comment by END WHITE RACISM (b92939) — 10/21/2008 @ 3:57 pm

  637. Thanks, EWR. Good to have someone with some perspective posting.

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:12 pm

  638. The idiots on here actually procreating. Pretty soon we will revert back to the caveman era with all this hillbilly inbreeding. And for the record, all whites aren’t ignorant, nor are all blacks.

    Thanks for pointing out, via your comments, your membership in the dual ignorant and racist group.

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:18 pm

  639. Dear END WHITE RACISM:

    I am not certain what argument you are trying to make — if I choose not to vote for Senator Obama, then: a) I am a racist, or b) the US will collapse.

    Regardless, both conclusions are false.

    I choose not to vote for Senator Obama, because he is not the best candidate in terms of economic policy, national defense policy, or domestic policy (most notably his energy “plan”). This is my opinion.

    The difference between you and me is that I will respect those voting for Senator Obama, believing that the vast majority are acting honorably, just as I have (i.e. in the best interests of the country), even if we hold different opinions.

    If Senator Obama becomes the next President, I will respect him and support him to the same extent I have respected and supported every President elected in my lifetime – because I trust the American People, Freedom, and Democracy.

    Can you (truly and honestly) say the same?

    Based on your insistence of calling large portions of our population “idiots”, “racists”, and “hillbilly’s”, I think not, but hopefully am wrong.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:23 pm

  640. “Funny how this information is useless, but still gets put up on racist blogs”

    END WHITE RACISM – Could you please point me to those racist blogs you reference? I certainly know a bunch of them on the left and avoid frequenting them because of their prejudices, but I’m sure I have not identified all of them.

    Thanks in advance.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:25 pm

  641. Pons… you are on the wrong site if you respect those voting for Obama. The rest of these kids don’t.

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:28 pm

  642. What difference does any of this mean when the general public is not the least bit interested? I am talking about all the registered Independents, Moderate Republicans etc.

    They don’t care, they can’t stand Srah Palin and that’s all that matters to them. She’s the one in line to be POTUS, not Bill Ayres or that fugly wife of his.

    That’s what you people don’t seem to get. Unfortunately you are preaching to the choir on this.

    Comment by Catharine (a875da) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:35 pm

  643. #What difference does any of this mean when the general public is not the least bit interested?

    Comment by Catharine — 10/21/2008 @ 4:35 pm

    Yours was comment #642.

    I’d say interest is high, whether it’s interest in learning more or trying to obscure the issue.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:44 pm

  644. Dear Truthnjustice:

    Possibly, but I doubt it. There is no way to look into the hearts of anonymous people (many who are engaged in emotional arguments – myself included) and come to a definitive conclusion about their true nature.

    We have always served when called upon and ironically, I suspect that most conservatives on this site are likely to be the ones to do the work, fighting and sacrifice to implement the plans of EITHER candidate.

    Not certain, but I truly believe this.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:49 pm

  645. Now that I’ve answered your question

    Lie. You answered 3 questions not asked of you.

    You really would feel safer under McCain as president?

    As opposed to Baracky, yes.

    We do not respect you, twoothnjustice. Big difference.

    Nothing to see here, move along. All is well. Pay no attention that there are trolls here from all over the innertubes screaming how there is nothing to see here, McCain is addled, Palin is evil. you are racist, and stooooooopid, etc …

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 4:57 pm

  646. “That’s what you people don’t seem to get.”

    Catharine – Thank you for your concern. rly!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:00 pm

  647. I re-read this entire thread. Good Allah, stupid like that should be painful, and they should have to wear huge Cat in the Hat hats so everyone could identify them. There were some comments that were jaw-dropping and breath-taking in their full-on KRAZY, and many were snort inducing. Good times. Good times.

    Remember, these are the people that will be voting multiple times, and cancelling out your votes.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:03 pm

  648. See Pons? These people aren’t respectful. JD just (ironically) confirmed that. I won’t even address him/her other than that, because he didn’t provide any real counter point other than making fun of my handle. It is a bit too 7th grade for me, but whatever works.

    As far as your argument is concerned, I think that the military support of the GOP could be seeing its final years. While the GOP is often the party to increase troop pay (therefore garnering support), they are increasingly discontinuing support of veterans. That is going to come back to bite them.

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:04 pm

  649. Dear Truthnjustice:
    I was referring to respecting the Office of the Presidency regardless of who is elected. That does not necessarily translate into respect for you, me or anyone else.

    #637 “Thanks, EWR. Good to have someone with some perspective posting.”

    This person referred to anyone not voting for Senator Obama as “idiots”, “racists”, and “hillbilly’s”.

    You thanked him.

    Respect between people is something that usually needs to be earned (and often involves a civil tone and lack of name-calling).

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:23 pm

  650. truthnjustice, the GOP is not ‘increasingly discontinuing support of veterans’ – that’s just another in a long line of complete fabrications on your part.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:40 pm

  651. Dear Truthnjustice (#648):

    Although I was not thinking of just the military (service to the Country can mean many things, the military being one of them), I wish to agree and disagree on the following points.

    “As far as your argument is concerned, I think that the military support of the GOP could be seeing its final years. While the GOP is often the party to increase troop pay (therefore garnering support), they are increasingly discontinuing support of veterans. That is going to come back to bite them.”

    The GOP has done an atrocious job caring for our veterans. I could not agree with you more on this point.

    Stating that the GOP has purchased the support of the military is insulting and offensive (I am a former veteran).

    The GOP currently has overwhelming support of the military (see poll by military times – over 60% its not even close), but it is not because of the pay.

    Senator Harry Reid (Demorcatic majority Leader-Nevada) stated that “the war is lost”. It is difficult to put into words, and I will not try to, but this confirmed the worst about what most in the military have suspected about the Democratic Party (right or wrong).

    American Soldiers have died and their buddies will remember this forever (like it just happened yesterday) everyday of their lives. Their hatred for Reid cannot be expressed adequately nor repaired with money.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:43 pm

  652. “JerrySpringer” certainly had among the most dishonest lines I’ve seen in awhile.

    Probably the analogy between John Wilkes Booth and Ayers was the most abjectly stupid.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:45 pm

  653. “It is a bit too 7th grade for me, but whatever works.”

    tnj – You are of course referring to your handle as opposed to your commenting style.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:53 pm

  654. While the Democrats are typically the party to disparage the military, they attempt to buy their support through supporting veterans benefits, which makes sense since there are a lot more veterans (read voters) than active duty personnel.

    tnj – I think the above might be a better statement of your position.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 5:59 pm

  655. (I am a former veteran).

    Pons – former is redundant. And twoofandjustice deserves no respect after its tirades the last couple of days.

    SPQR – Given the 500 fellow travelers that posted before Jerry, that was quite a feat.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 6:05 pm

  656. Just a comment from a Vet…

    Since when was the conventional wisdom that the V-A ever did a good job taking care of Vets.
    When we were active, we bitched about the med care (this was in a non-combat environment BTW), and just knew that it would only get worse at the V-A after we got out.
    So, since when did the V-A ever start competing with the Mayo Clinic?

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 6:23 pm

  657. You are correct JD; “former veteran” is redundant. Thanks for the grammatical correction :-)

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:04 pm

  658. ruthgetsbusted – If you can’t tell that JD is a dude, there really is no hope for you.

    Comment by Icy Truth (84d054) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:09 pm

  659. Pons: Insulting and offensive… and most definitely true. I wouldn’t support a party hell-bent on sending me or my friends to my demise, simply because they could not admit that their intelligence may have been tainted.

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:19 pm

  660. JD you will get your ‘respect’ on judgement day. November 4th! ;-)

    Comment by truthnjustice (d99227) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:21 pm

  661. #647 JD

    I re-read this entire thread. Good Allah, stupid like that should be painful,

    Oh, it was. Believe me!

    /Credit to Icy Truth where due, but I might ha’ chosed the wrong millennium to stop drinkin’ & druggin’.

    Comment by EW1(SG) (ec2899) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:30 pm

  662. You guys really aren’t afraid of McCain keeling over in the white house and Sarah Palin in control of the nuclear (pardon me) nucular codes?

    Personally, I’m afraid of Obama in the White House and Hugo Chavez in control of the nuclear codes.

    Comment by nk (6367bf) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:42 pm

  663. Funny how the “idiots” only read what they want to read of what i posted. First of all, their are black and white hillbilly’s, which is why i followed the hillbilly term with all blacks and whites are not ignorant. and when did hillbilly become a racist term? Hence, why the negative responders are “idiots”(Apogee = Idiot). Second, i specifically stated that i don’t care about the petty rabble that is being thrown around by the candidates and their camps. I care about the issues that are hurting this country now, and if you look at the color of someones skin, or what church they previously attended, well then your an “idiot”. I could care less if someone liked McCain, but i want people to like their candidates for the right reasons , and not stupidity.(Pons Asinorum = non reading idiot)
    If calling someone an idiot or hillbilly makes me racist and ignorant, then so be it. But what does calling someone an Arab terrorist, or porch monkey make some of the idiots at McCain and Palin rallies. And if you want to talk about Pastors, what about Sarah Palin, who belongs to a church where the pastor recently said, “Jews control the banking industry and that’s why Wall Street is so corrupt.” Should i make her liable for what another grown person with freedom of speech has to say? He prays over her and is her spiritual advisor. Should we hold her accountable for him? If i did, then i would really become on of the “idiots”.

    Comment by END WHITE RACISM (b92939) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:43 pm

  664. CBSNews.com informed its staff via email that they should no longer enable comments on stories about presidential candidate Barack Obama. The reason for the new policy, according to the email, is that stories about Obama have been attracting too many racist comments.

    “It’s very simple,” Mike Sims, director of News and Operations for CBSNews.com, told me. “We have our Rules of Engagement. They prohibit personal attacks, especially racist attacks. Stories about Obama have been problematic, and we won’t tolerate it.”

    CBSNews.com does sometimes delete comments on an individual basis, but Sims said that was not sufficient in the case of Obama stories due to “the volume and the persistence” of the objectionable comments.

    New York, July 24: Charging Fox News Channel, owned by media mogul Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp, with running a “racist coverage” against presumptive Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama, about 150 protesters held demonstrations outside its offices.

    The items of protest included the network describing Obama’s wife Michelle as his “baby mama,” an anchor calling the fist bump between the two as “terrorist fist jab,” and a show host questioning Michelle’s patriotism and calling for “lynching party” to deal with it.

    Comment by END WHITE RACISM (b92939) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:48 pm

  665. New York, July 24: Charging Fox News Channel

    EWR – What’s the link or source for this one?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:54 pm

  666. #639 Pons Asinorum

    If Senator Obama becomes the next President, I will respect him and support him to the same extent I have respected and supported every President elected in my lifetime

    One of the most important points made in this thread, I think. I’m backing McCain, but–me, too–after the election, I’ll be backing our president, whether McCain or Obama. As I expect every regular reader of this blog will do. Not so sure about those trolls: sadly, they don’t seem to get this point, at all, ever.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:54 pm

  667. #662 nk

    Personally, I’m afraid of Obama in the White House and Hugo Chavez in control of the nuclear codes.

    Excellent. Many a keyboard–mine among them–has just been spewed with liquids formerly in their owner’s mouths.
    You weren’t, you weren’t serious. . . .

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 7:59 pm

  668. “I wouldn’t support a party hell-bent on sending me or my friends to my demise, simply because they could not admit that their intelligence may have been tainted.”

    tnj – You claimed you came to this blog to expose hypocrisy. The only hypocrisy I’ve seen you expose so far is your own. To use your own words, whatever works.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:00 pm

  669. Dear Truthnjustice:
    #659 “I wouldn’t support a party hell-bent on sending me or my friends to my demise, simply because they could not admit that their intelligence may have been tainted.”

    Fair enough, but please consider the two CURRENT candidates.

    One is humble, makes mistakes, has relevant life experience and is securitized by the media.

    One is above criticism, has popular endorsements, no executive decision-making skills of relevance and is given protection by the media.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:04 pm

  670. #663 EWR

    But what does calling someone an Arab terrorist, or porch monkey make some of the idiots at McCain and Palin rallies.

    Quote and link, please, of someone “at McCain and Palin rallies” using the term “porch monkey”? And . . . this would be a McCain/Palin official campaign spokesman? So name him. Or stop it.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:06 pm

  671. #267 Karyn:

    I have an anguish in my heart that I will carry forever. It is all due to McVeigh’s rein of terror. No different than the rein of terror
    masterminded by Ayers.

    Very true. I’m old enough to recall the fear and anxiety that the Weather Underground caused in everyday people with their activities: and there just isn’t any way in hell that a US Presidential candidate should have ever had anything to do with such a terrorist.

    Except perhaps signing the death warrant after the trial.

    Comment by EW1(SG) (ec2899) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:06 pm

  672. after the election, I’ll be backing our president, whether McCain or Obama. As I expect every regular reader of this blog will do.

    Indeed. I have already said that a President Obama will be my President. I imagine I’ll criticize him quite a bit — but he’ll be my President.

    But I’m not ready to give up just yet.

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:08 pm

  673. #667 m:

    You weren’t, you weren’t serious. . . .

    On a matter such as this, how could he NOT be serious?

    Comment by EW1(SG) (ec2899) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:09 pm

  674. #662 nk

    Personally, I’m afraid of Obama in the White House and Hugo Chavez in control of the nuclear codes.

    Excellent. Many a keyboard–mine among them–has just been spewed with liquids formerly in their owner’s mouths.
    You weren’t, you weren’t serious. . . .

    Comment by m — 10/21/2008 @ 7:59 pm

    Why not? He’d be just “spreading the wealth”.

    We can talk about my xenophobia and racism another time.

    Comment by nk (6367bf) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:11 pm

  675. Dear END WHITE RACISM (#663):
    The terms you used (idiots”, “racists”, and “hillbilly’s”) are derogatory; somehow you think they are all racist terms. Nowhere did I call you racist or ignorant; those labels may apply to you, but I have no way of verifying.

    “If calling someone an idiot or hillbilly makes me racist and ignorant, then so be it.”

    No, I disagree. This just makes you offensive and insecure in your ideas. Resorting to name-calling when logic and truth fail is vindication of the factual assertions made against your rhetoric and often illogical conclusions.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:18 pm

  676. #664 EWC, #665 daleyrocks

    Today CBSNews.com informed its staff via email that they should no longer enable comments on stories about presidential candidate Barack Obama. The reason for the new policy, according to the email, is that stories about Obama have been attracting too many racist comments.

    This is really out there, online. May 4, 2007 date on the article.
    What *is* this?

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:19 pm

  677. But what does calling someone an Arab terrorist, or porch monkey make some of the idiots at McCain and Palin rallies

    Assuming, arguendo, that ever happened, that would make them a bigot. Since it hasn’t, it makes you an asshat.

    daleyrocks – You know that the proof of these assertions are the assertions.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:24 pm

  678. I wonder if dissent will still be the highest form of patriotism once Baracky takes office.

    If calling someone an idiot or hillbilly makes me racist and ignorant, then so be it.”

    No, calling someone an idiot or hillbilly does not make you a racist or ignorant. Writing in such a manner that demonstrates your ignorance makes you ignorant.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:27 pm

  679. EWR said (insultingly): “… First of all, their are black and white hillbilly’s…”
    Then, there is inconsistent use of “I” & “i”…
    Plus, “… i don’t care about the petty rabble that is being…” (Say, What?)
    And, “… well then your an “idiot”…”

    Now, who is being stupid?

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:30 pm

  680. AD – It is clearly racist for you to point that out.

    Comment by The real JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:33 pm

  681. #672 Patterico

    after the election, I’ll be backing our president, whether McCain or Obama. As I expect every regular reader of this blog will do.

    Indeed. I have already said that a President Obama will be my President. I imagine I’ll criticize him quite a bit — but he’ll be my President.

    But I’m not ready to give up just yet.

    And I have several fancy dinner bets out on McCain winning, putting enormous amounts of my money where my mouth is.
    But this gets at what ultimately really gripes me. Every single Obama supporter I talk with–and have bets with–won’t abide a McCain presidency. They threaten to move to Canada, to Europe (where I currently am), anywhere but America; to declare a McCain presidency not theirs. So they fight for their candidate, and will not accept a loss; we fight for our candidate, and will support our country. I just think we ought to get extra credit for that.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:34 pm

  682. Comment by The real JD — 10/21/2008 @ 8:33 pm

    The discussion re Parkland Memorial has me completely turned around as to who is whom.
    Since I can’t tell who I’m talking to, I’ll just refrain from getting in the middle.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:44 pm

  683. Hugo Chavez in control of the nuclear codes.

    Maybe good McCain final-weeks ad material. We’d be needing some pizzazz.
    I just sent the McCain “contact us” link a plea to use the Lloyd Marcus rendition of “Sara(h), Smile” somehow, somewhere. I’m showing my age, but I love this version (via vodkapundit) and this version (full version, but not top-professional, I think).

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:44 pm

  684. EWR is using language Democrats clearly understand. It was only a few years ago that Robert Byrd (D,Kleagle)made a distinction on national television about white ni**ers. Clearly he and EWR have much in common.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:47 pm

  685. Hugo Chavez in control of the nuclear codes.

    I would have said Vladimir Putin, but Vladimir Putin serves punks like Obama as breakfast to his dogs.

    Comment by nk (6367bf) — 10/21/2008 @ 8:57 pm

  686. AD – You couldn’t tell the difference between me and that asshat ?!

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:03 pm

  687. #685 nk

    Hugo Chavez in control of the nuclear codes.
    I would have said Vladimir Putin, but Vladimir Putin serves punks like Obama as breakfast to his dogs.

    Again, the liquids, the spewing, the inadvertently redecorated keyboard.
    Not that I’d say you’re wrong, I’d just say you’re prefiguring fears so unthinkable that a lot of us hadn’t thought that far ahead yet.

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:04 pm

  688. “I wonder if one of your family members was maimed or killed, if you would be so nuanced about the benign nature of Ayers.

    Finally, I wonder if this is the path you really want travel in order to defend Senator Obama? Even the Obama campaign has (truthfully or not) wisely renounced Aryes and his acts.”

    Pons, I agree with you that Ayers committed some despicable actions that were clearly illegal. I tried to be clear that I was not defending his actions. The only reason I mentioned the fact that Ayers’s bombings did not kill anyone is because statements to the contrary have come up repeatedly.

    Honestly, I don’t need to defend Obama. I, and most other Americans (and 4 out of 5 people from all over the world), see these allegations against him as a non-issue. To argue that Obama might not have been sincere in his condemnation of Ayers is an attack on Obama’s character and patriotism that even McCain would refute – when that lady at the McCain rally accused Obama of being an “Arab”, McCain replied, “No he is not M’am, he’s a decent, family man, citizen.”

    However, if you do want to make those kinds of attacks, then use the same ruler on McCain. McCain specifically stated over the radio that he was proud and congratulatory of the philosophies and principles of a man whose philosophies and principles are founded on hatred, intolerance, violence, and an admiration of ultra-right wing totalitarian governments.

    Comment by Jazza (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:07 pm

  689. #681 m.

    I just think we ought to get extra credit for that.

    Okay, I’ll save out a gold star for you.

    Especially if you can get them to move …

    /I suppose that wasn’t the nicest thing to say about an Obamaton. So I hereby denounce myself. As a racist.

    //Anybody seen an “ing” lying about? I lost one on one of these threads a bit ago. Prolly too late to use it anyway.

    Comment by EW1(SG) (ec2899) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:10 pm

  690. Comment by JD — 10/21/2008 @ 9:03 pm

    He was doing a very good imitation.
    Sorry!

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:11 pm

  691. Jazza is back to tell us that Bill Ayers has not killed anyone, and uses the lack of conviction as some kind of proof that he is innocent.

    (and 4 out of 5 people from all over the world),

    Who gives a flying rat’s ass what the people of the world think about our elections?

    To argue that Obama might not have been sincere in his condemnation of Ayers is an attack on Obama’s character and patriotism that even McCain would refute -

    Way to savage that strawperson. We are not questioning his condemnation, though like all of his others, it did not come until it was politically expedient to do so. No, we question whether or not he has told us the truth about the nature and extent of their relationship. I take that back. I do not question it. Given the inforamtion available, it is clear that he has been less than forthright about it.

    that lady at the McCain rally accused Obama of being an “Arab”,

    Is he, or is he not, of Arab descent?

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:12 pm

  692. “I, and most other Americans (and 4 out of 5 people from all over the world), see these allegations against him as a non-issue.”

    Jazza – Has ACORN finished registering all those people from around the world to vote in the U.S. Presidential election yet?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:20 pm

  693. Is he, or is he not, of Arab descent?

    His father was a Kenyan.
    That family tree might have some branches on it that bear inconvenient fruit.
    As with a lot of the O’s background/history, it “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:20 pm

  694. Another Drew-

    “His father was a Kenyan.
    That family tree might have some branches on it that bear inconvenient fruit.
    As with a lot of the O’s background/history, it “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”.”

    So we judge our candidates based on whether someone, somewhere along the line in his family tree is an “Arab”? Your comment smacks of xenophobia.

    I would like a list of the “ethnicities” that are allowed in the white house.

    Go.

    Comment by joey (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:35 pm

  695. jazza’s only response for the Ayers’ situation … to deny its an issue.

    But hilariously, it was only months ago that Democrats were attacking McCain over nothing more than a political endorsement from a fundamentalist preacher that they didn’t like.

    With Obama, we have a long standing relationship, even political mentoring, with a violent terrorist but what is the response? Nothing to see … move along.

    It is to laugh.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:45 pm

  696. #689 EW1(SG)
    ✩!

    Comment by m (2be694) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:48 pm

  697. ^ Reverand Wright’s church smacks of xenophobia. (Aids/urban drugs/poverty caused by whites). Any response to that?

    I would like a list of the “ethnicities” that are allowed in the white house.

    I would like a list of the ethnicities, and specifically, the political beliefs that are allowed in a potential Barack cabinet. Early indications say it’s heavy on the Socialism and short on the big promise: Unity, with no color lines.

    How do you say hog wash in French?

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:49 pm

  698. EW1SG, the only “ing” I’ve seen is the one that the Dutch government just bailed out to the tune of billions.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:55 pm

  699. joey – You are the only one applying a judgement. We are simply asking questions and seeking the truth to the question posed.

    FWIW – I could not give a flying fuck if Baracky is a half-black man of partial Arab descent. I matters not one single solitary bit to me.

    I do, however, tire of asshats like yourself screaming racism at what should be actual facts. He either is, or is not, of partial Arab descent. His middle name is, or is not, Hussein. Establishing facts is not racist, no matter how often and how loudly you scream.

    SPQR – HAGEE IS MCSAME’S PRIEST !!!!!!!!

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:56 pm

  700. JD, you remember that?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:57 pm

  701. 700!

    Is this the longest comment thread in Patterico history?

    Comment by DRJ (c953ab) — 10/21/2008 @ 9:59 pm

  702. #672, 681

    If Barry runs this country with a Socialist bent, indoctrinating kids like he and Ayers have done… bombing Pakistan as he said… using his John Roberts Powers charisma to deal with Iran or Putin, it’s going to be hard to call this guy “my President.” He’ll be the Acorn bought-and-paid-for appointee; the head of the country in which I live. It’s a country I love, not just when times are good or when things are going my way. He’ll surprise me if he doesn’t unravel the fabric and give away our strength (/wealth, /security) to hostile countries. If that’s lacking in grace, so be it.

    The most courtesy I’ll extend: will never pull a ‘Dixie Chick’ and diss an American on foreign land.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:00 pm

  703. Comment by joey — 10/21/2008 @ 9:35 pm

    You have a severe projection problem.
    All I said is that Kenya has a storied, and rich history, that the study of would reveal some interesting connections.
    It is the Obamabots who deny that he is:
    1- Arab; or,
    2- Muslim.

    Yet, we know his father was from Kenya, and was a practicing Muslim.
    We know that Muslim identity is passed along the paternal line.
    We know that ethnic identity in Kenya is highly varied (sort of like trying to find a 100% Black, African-American, who traces his lineage back to the anti-bellum South).

    All in all, we know very little about Mr. Obama’s heritage and/or history; either in regard to his father, or his time between Prep School graduation (and how many “ordinary” Americans graduate from a Prep School in Hawaii?), and his time in Hyde Park.

    A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma!

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:00 pm

  704. Vermont Neighbor -

    “Reverand Wright’s church smacks of xenophobia. (Aids/urban drugs/poverty caused by whites). Any response to that?”

    Yes, I agree, Reverand Wright said things that were wrong and focused on racial division. I don’t believe that excuses making additional comments that play on racial fears.

    “I would like a list of the ethnicities, and specifically, the political beliefs that are allowed in a potential Barack cabinet. Early indications say it’s heavy on the Socialism and short on the big promise: Unity, with no color lines.”

    So far, Obama has mentioned as potential advisors people who are white, black, Republican and Democrat.

    Comment by joey (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:01 pm

  705. Its clowns like this who show how dishonest the Obama cultists are on the race issue.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:03 pm

  706. Another Drew -

    Obama was raised by his mother Ann Dunham and his American grandparents. He only had contact with his dad once when he was 10 years old.

    Obama is not an “Arab” or a “Muslim”. John McCain denied this. He is a Christian

    Comment by joey (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:14 pm

  707. “I would like a list of the “ethnicities” that are allowed in the white house.”

    joey – Front door or back door?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:18 pm

  708. joey, obviously you’re mind’s made up. For proof of ‘reaching across the aisle’ look to McCain’s resume. So much so in fact, he’s turned away some conservatives. JSM is head and shoulders above Barack’s far-left (#1 hard left) voting record, a record scant in its achievement yet overflowing with calculating and safe ‘present’ votes.

    You would NEVER allow a GOP candidate to associate with David Duke, which is actually the racist Jeremiah Wright’s equivalent.

    For Barack Obama, twenty years, a marriage and two children deeply involved with that hate-filled church. You have double standards. If it was truly okay, Obama would never have dumped the whole bunch except for the political necessity behind it (even after embracing the racist reverend as a crazy uncle figure).

    You would NEVER allow a GOP candidate to associate with David Duke. Nor would a serious candidate today tempt a hand with the race card; it wields too much power. That’s the real engine behind this election. That and the Soros funny-money. Truth to power.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:19 pm

  709. Just ask Colin Powell

    Pahaha!

    Comment by obamaisgonnawin (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:22 pm

  710. joey, “arab” is not a creed. Sheesh.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:27 pm

  711. Vermont Neighbor –

    I agree with you that I don’t judge Barack Obama based on the views of his Reverend. And I don’t judge McCain by the views of Liddy (McCain has stated that he was proud and congratulatory of the philosophies and principles of a man whose philosophies and principles are founded on hatred, intolerance, violence, and an admiration of ultra-right wing totalitarian governments).

    I think that the focus should be on issues.

    Comment by joey (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:32 pm

  712. joey is an open-minded bigot.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:41 pm

  713. SPQR -

    Right, “Arab” is not a creed. I said Obama was not an Arab.

    Comment by joey (a43855) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:41 pm

  714. Can you prove that, or just assert that, joey?

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:43 pm

  715. joey, you “proved” he wasn’t an arab by saying that John McCain said he was Christian.

    You don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

    By the way, it was Obama who put his own judgment into play as an issue. Its his freakin’ slogan. Get a clue.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:45 pm

  716. joey….
    Unless you have access to Obama Sr’s complete geneology, you have no idea whether or not there is any “Arab” in his background.
    As to being a Muslim, as I stated earlier, Muslim identity is passed through paternity, just as Jewish identity is passed through maternity.
    We do know that while in Indonesia with his step-father (another Muslim), Obama attended a madrassa there.

    BTW, are you aware that for someone who is Muslim to deny their faith is considered an act of Apostasy, and is punishable by death under Shariah?

    Again, there are a lot of questions, and so far there have been almost no answers.

    Comment by Another Drew (7866bb) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:57 pm

  717. Dear Jazza (#688):

    You say: “The only reason I mentioned the fact that Ayers’s bombings did not kill anyone is because statements to the contrary have come up repeatedly.”

    Ayers did commit murder and he did maim people deliberately.

    I have given you the names of some of his victims and the dates of their injuries or murder. I have done so twice. I have also explicitly stated the moral equivalency. To deny this IS defending him.

    Feel free to argue, but you and I have reached a dead-end on this matter.

    You say: “To argue that Obama might not have been sincere in his condemnation of Ayers is an attack on Obama’s character and patriotism that even McCain would refute…”

    The Obama renunciation is either “truthful or not”. That is not an argument but a simple fact. Senator Obama’s renunciation has come only in the last few months, on a relationship that he has not been totally forthcoming.

    Therefore, I am not required to blindly accept his renunciation as absolute truth; to obtain my acceptance on this issue (and trust for this office) requires intensive vetting and a candidate who embraces tough questions.

    Neither has occurred.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/21/2008 @ 10:59 pm

  718. “I agree with you that I don’t judge Barack Obama based on the views of his Reverend.”

    joey – Just a reminder, Obama himself has said Wright is a valid issue.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/21/2008 @ 11:11 pm

  719. Dear Jazza (#688):

    You say: “However, if you do want to make those kinds of attacks, then use the same ruler on McCain. McCain specifically stated over the radio that he was proud and congratulatory of the philosophies and principles of a man whose philosophies and principles are founded on hatred, intolerance, violence, and an admiration of ultra-right wing totalitarian governments.”

    Not buying it. Senator McCain’s record of thirty-plus years of service has been vetted by voters for the past twenty-plus years.

    Mistakes were made. Things were learned, knowledge gained and wisdom acquired over the course of decades. I know exactly where he stands and where every skeleton is (he hides nothing).

    One of the most admirable qualities that McCain has is his humility. He freely admits he is made out of clay (I don’t get that so much from Senator Obama).

    Generally though, I think of the man, who while serving in the Navy, was captured and spent years in a small cage. He was tortured repeatedly, and when given a chance to leave, refused so that other fellow POWS might leave in his place. I cannot envision a greater act of compassion, loyalty, duty and sacrifice.

    He does not have the rock-stars, Hollywood-stars, or media-stars.

    He does have far more Honor, Courage, and Fidelity than most will ever have (I know I cannot measure up to him).

    Once again, I don’t get that so much from Senator Obama.

    PS:
    I almost forgot, McCain does have a few farmers, some hard-workers, and some Moms. Oh, and lately he has a few plumbers, too. Hardly glamour people to be sure (but their numbers are beginning to grow). I count myself proudly among their ranks.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (0e119f) — 10/22/2008 @ 12:12 am

  720. Wow, i see why this country is in so much disarray. Too many idiot close minded racists who live in fear of a non-existent concept. Black Americans could care less about whites, and from what i see have integrated fully with them in most major states. Most Americans are not even from single decent anymore, and are completely multiracial. That is why Obama has taken this campaign by storm, most people are tired of the prejudices and are looking for a change from the normal racist “White ” house. Many think he has a chance to really shake things up, and make this country a little more liveable.

    Comment by END WHITE RACISM (b92939) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:42 am

  721. UMd Pre-Election Day “FREE Laboratory Theatre“… underground:

    Contemporary choreographers Dorfman and Marks discuss the how and why of dance in the context of war. David Dorfman’s underground , presented at the Center on November 6 and 7, uses the 1960s as a starting point to explore the principles of political activism, in particular the activities of the Weather Underground, to ask bigger questions: When can activism become terrorism or vice versa? In a violent world, can you fight for peace?

    /theatre of the grotesque

    Comment by Terp Mole (9355ce) — 10/22/2008 @ 6:38 am

  722. EWR, you really need to get out of your mom’s basement more. That isn’t the reality of the United States, and it is not the reality of Obama. Obama is steeped in black racism – the Black Liberation Theology of Wright.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 6:44 am

  723. I’m very tired of the people saying if you’re for McCain you are a racist. I work with a woman whose husband is African American and they are both for McCain…do you think they are racist?

    Also, Dems shouldn’t get too comfortable with the current polls because history has shown that who is in the lead doesn’t necessarily win (think Bush/Kerry for the most recent example, and there are many many others). As someone with a data analysis background I find it hard to believe a sampling of 1,500 or so (or even 5,000 people) as being accurate when there are millions of us in this country. We’ll just have to see what happens on Nov. 4.

    Also, I wish people would leave Governor Palin alone. She has a very successful record as Governor, an over 80% approval rating in her state, and appears very intelligent. Why is it that if a woman is attractive she’s labeled a “Barbie”. Would people take her more seriously if she weren’t attractive? Isn’t that also discrimination?

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:17 am

  724. “Many think he has a chance to really shake things up, and make this country a little more liveable.”

    EWR – Many people are also bitterly clinging to the concept of antropogenic global warming even though the earth has been cooling for the past eight years. There are suckers born every minute and you have demonstrated you are one.

    Some of us like to vote for the most qualified candidate and that is not Senator Government, regardless of his skin color.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:35 am

  725. Comment by Sox Girl — 10/22/2008 @ 7:17 am

    Yes, Sarah Palin would command much more gravitas if only she had Barbra Streisand’s nose.

    Comment by Another Drew (d7f986) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:36 am

  726. Sox Girl, it is discrimination against Palin. Yes to your question and to the ridiculous irony of the equation:

    Obama + charisma = Admiration / Palin + pretty + accomplishments = Barbie label

    The fact that the DNC treated Hillary this way says much about their selective discrimination and faux elite compassion. That’s been happening since Bill Clinton was the merry molester. Yet his targets were all tainted lowly women. Were it not for the blue dress, the Liberals’ attempts at sexism and psychological violence would’ve enrobed each Clinton female.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:31 am

  727. normal racist “White ” house.

    You are a vile little shit, End EWR’s Stupdity.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:38 am

  728. Yeah. This “EWR” is about as color-blind as the race-war magnate. Our potential Prez. The Commander of filth and Chicago politics.

    Watch the Oval Office turn into the Rainbow room, with radical black theology and strong anti-white rhetoric subbing for U N I T Y.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:47 am

  729. Comment by JD — 10/22/2008 @ 9:38 am

    Lighten-up, JD.
    EWR is the perfect book-end companion to Bobby Byrd.

    Comment by Another Drew (d7f986) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:47 am

  730. Wow, i see why this country is in so much disarray.

    “I see”, said the blind man

    Too many idiot close minded racists who live in fear of a non-existent concept.

    There are so many spelling, grammar, and structure mistakes in this one sentence that it is difficult to understand. In the future, I will point out that it is easier to just type

    RACISTS

    Black Americans could care less about whites, and from what i see have integrated fully with them in most major states.

    Except for Jeremiah Wright. And Baracky. And all of their race-baiting enablers. Yes, EWR, I am pointing at you.

    Most Americans are not even from single decent anymore, and are completely multiracial.

    Descent, idiot. And that is not a typo. That is ignorance.

    That is why Obama has taken this campaign by storm, most people are tired of the prejudices and are looking for a change from the normal racist “White ” house.

    See above.

    Many think he has a chance to really shake things up, and make this country a little more liveable.

    You and your ilk promised to leave the country the first and second time George Bush was elected. I suspect that it would take a lot more than Baracky’s election to make things more liveable for you, like an unlimited supply of adult diapers and bibs, eating utensils with blunt ends, childproof corners everywhere, and extra padding on your walls.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:53 am

  731. My gift of entertainment for you,,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLvgwHGlpdQ

    Comment by VietnamEraVet (543dfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:57 am

  732. Mr. Vet,

    That video is a Joni Mitchell concert, dear. Not the reality we’re gonna get. It’ s pretty though, isn’t it?

    If Only Obama’s past were as happy as the fake PR image. Please do some reading up, okay? Then vote for the dangerous one.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 10:35 am

  733. As this whole rant page is founded on the idea that “character counts,” let’s have some fun with this. Here’s what George W. Bush would be saying about John Sidney McCain’s character if he were running against him now:

    McCain believes in miscegenation—he “adopted” (hint, hint) a Negro child.

    McCain lives with a drug addict.

    McCain was brought up on profanity charges for shouting obscenities at women who refused to date him.

    McCain crashed numerous navy planes during his lackluster military career—all paid for by Joe the taxpayer—but was allowed to keep flying because of his Admiral father.

    McCain was passed over for promotion—despite his father’s connections—because he was so incompetent an officer the Navy could not risk putting him in charge of more servicemen.

    McCain fled the scene of his greatest naval disaster, the explosion of his plane on the deck of the carrier U.S.S. Forrestal, doing nothing to fight the fire, which eventually claimed the lives of 134 brave servicemen and injured 161 more. He did not even remain on board to help mourn the loss of his fallen comrades but headed off to Saigon for R & R and quickly asked for a transfer to another carrier—but not before holidaying in the South of France to show his patriotism.

    McCain revealed more than name, rank and serial number at his interrogations, giving the North Vietnamese detailed information which helped them shoot down additional American pilots and damage the overall mission.

    McCain contributed directly to the death of more American servicemen than enemy combatants during his entire military career.

    McCain’s years in solitary confinement as a prisoner of war fostered a dangerous instability and paranoia in the man.

    McCain is an adulterer, carrying on a lengthy affair with the wealthy daughter of a convicted felon before finally abandoning his wife and three children—prompting President Reagan and his wife Nancy to publicly side with his abused spouse.

    McCain’s philandering ways have continued—lobbyist Vicki Iseman the latest notch on his belt—whose campaign contributions (via her clients) to the McCain campaign could make her one of the Highest Paid Whores in History.

    Now which of these charges would you like to:

    A) Refute
    B) Deny
    C) Claim statue of limitations (“That was long ago, etc., etc.)
    D) Change the subject and attack Obama
    E) Change the subject and attack me

    It’s like you guys have the Universal Smear The Candidate Handbook (only $19.95—order now for a set of free Ginsu knives with which to slice up your opponents!)

    Now if you think the above questions have no place in American Politics and the American Voter doesn’t “need to know” about these allegations then go quietly into that good night with this whole Bill Ayers nonsense.

    If you can’t get a life at least rent one for goodness sake!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 11:37 am

  734. someone with a data analysis background
    would KNOW statistics and standard deviations

    sampling of 2000 has 97% probability

    Sox girl you are a moron

    Comment by nick (acd353) — 10/22/2008 @ 11:56 am

  735. Sorry Nick…I don’t what world of numbers you live in but 2,000 does not equal 97% probability when compared to the U.S. population. Not even close.

    Guess we’ll see come November 4th won’t we?

    Until then you can keep your name calling to yourself.

    Comment by Sox Girl (2401fc) — 10/22/2008 @ 12:44 pm

  736. So, Jerry Springer spouts a cornucopia of lies, distortions, Leftist canards, and false attributions, and then declares all potential responses out-of-bounds. Nifty, that.

    Apparently, it is trying to be more mendoucheous than it was yesterday.

    Funny that all of the ranting that it references have come from its fellow travelers.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 12:50 pm

  737. The multiple, overt, and aggressive lies that JerrySpringer told in that post are disgusting. Hell, even Baracky does not have the stones to trot that stuff out. Thank you for proving beyond a shadown of a doubt that you would have to climb to reach the depths of the Springer Show.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:03 pm

  738. So, Jerry Springer spouts a cornucopia of lies, distortions, Leftist canards, and false attributions, and then declares all potential responses out-of-bounds. Nifty, that.

    Wow. This Springer character is matching the OBAMA strategy playbook to a T.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:05 pm

  739. Hey JD

    I see you chose:

    E) Change the subject and attack me

    Kinda makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that you’d go for the personal attack rather than debunk any of the George W. Bush campaign pronouncements that helped elect him over McCain in 2000.

    What’s the matter JD, George W. no longer your pal?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:12 pm

  740. P.S.

    I’ll forward your comments about “Leftist Canards” to George W. & Karl Rove–I’m afraid you may need expert legal advice when they sue you for defamation of character on that one.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:14 pm

  741. And tell me JD, while we’re on the subject of dirty tricks, do you receive any money for posting your opinions here from either the McCain campaign, the RNC or any of their “fellow travelers” (that one really tickles! I haven’t heard that one since the McCarthy era!).

    I mean I know Mark Jacoby was paid to commit vote fraud–he’s a hard-working small business owner after all–but are you paid
    for any of these comments?

    How about full disclosure here?

    I’m not paid nor have any affiliation with the Democratic party–what about you?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:25 pm

  742. Zzzzzzzz.. The Obamatrons could watch this jerk block the troops for his own political gain and they’d still fawn and drool. Oh wait. Already happened.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:30 pm

  743. Oh, and Vermont Neighbor, I’m afraid I need to correct your factual error there.

    I’m matching the George W. Bush strategy playbook to a T.

    You remember?????

    The one you voted for in 2000?????

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:32 pm

  744. Mark Jocoby? Arianna Huffington for true Voter Fraud!!!11!!

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:32 pm

  745. Jerry – You have asserted that George W. Bush made all of the above accusations against Sen. McCain. Please provide your evidence. Or, in the alternative, admit you just enjoyed posting smears of McCain. Since you trafficked in same previously, it is not even cute that you try to pawn that off on George Bush, but I will give you a chance to substantiate each and every one of the mendoucheous assertions you made.

    One person that is a Republican committing fraud in voter registration is an outrage. One organization doing so on a national scale in a coordinated manner is nothing to see, and it is racist for pointing it out.

    I am not paid by anyone to comment.

    I see it is hell-bent on being more mendoucheous than yesterday. Tall task. I am sure it is up to it.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:33 pm

  746. And JD,

    As the McCain slurs come from George W. (not me)I’m unclear on which are:

    A) Lies
    B) Distortions
    C) Leftist Canards
    D) False Attributions

    Just go through the list and “connect the dots” if you would for me.

    Thanks Pal!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:36 pm

  747. Sorry little buddy. Obama squashed discussion in Chicago and Missouri with his big bad TRUTH SQUADS. You know, when people tried to talk about his actual past and resume. Can your free speech crap. Barry’s into toeing the line and idol worship.

    His is the dirtiest campaign we’ve seen in our lifetime, from calling a former President racist to sealing every paper and record from his own past… the man is filth.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:38 pm

  748. I’m unclear on which are:

    A) Lies
    B) Distortions
    C) Leftist Canards
    D) False Attributions

    Just go through the list and “connect the dots” if you would for me.

    (Grins happily): Sure. Can we look at Obama’s past, too? Maybe talk to people who knew him during his various shakedown projects. I think some use the euphemism “organizer.”

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:42 pm

  749. Jerry – You can’t even stay in character for your screen name. How sad is that?

    Is it true that you have hot, steamy, consenual intimate relations with that guy on your show who walks around the stage on his hands? He doesn’t have any legs. We need some details about you two! Pictures would be great.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:42 pm

  750. Nope, Jerry. It is your position that President Bush made those allegations against Sen. McCain. The burden of proof is one you to substantiate your assertions. Your failure to do so will count as proof of your mendoucheousness.

    You are not my pal.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:42 pm

  751. Aw JD,

    I’ve now sunk to an “it” in your books.

    You sling mud so expertly but still act all squeakly clean–you’re SOOOOO cute!

    I guess YPM (Mr. Jacoby’s company) is not a “national organization” in your books, even though it has been the subject of investigations in Arizona, Florida, Massachusetts, etc.

    But maybe those are part of that “other, Un-America” I keep hearing about from McCain supporters.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:44 pm

  752. “I keep hearing about from McCain supporters.”

    Jerry – We’ve told you when they talk to you through the fillings in your teeth to put you tin foil hat back on.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:47 pm

  753. Hey JD,

    Now I see we’re getting into deflection and evasion parts of your manual–”focus on the questioner so that his questions are either forgotten or disallowed”–textbook

    No attempt to defend you guy McCain from the allegations?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:48 pm

  754. Go on, be a sport–which are lies, which are distortions, which are leftist canards and which are false attributions?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:49 pm

  755. Jerry “Projection” Springer… Between Acorn and Obama’s penchant for suing and cheating, you shouldn’t dig a big deep hole. Squeaky clean isn’t an Axelrod specialty, as we all know.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:49 pm

  756. Did he not crash all those planes as a Navy pilot?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:49 pm

  757. Was he not passed over for promotion?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:50 pm

  758. Did his wife not have a drug addiction problem?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:51 pm

  759. Jerry – You’re really here trying to impersonate a stupid Obamatard to win a bet, aren’t you?

    How is it going?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:51 pm

  760. Did he not commit adultery?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:51 pm

  761. “The Public Needs To Know More About This”

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:52 pm

  762. Springy: You sound like you’re looking for bipartisan harmony and the ability to reach across the aisle. Ever consider John McCain for president? Your Soros puppet is a divider, you know… not a uniter.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:52 pm

  763. Did President Reagan and his wife Nancy not side with McCain’s abused wife?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:53 pm

  764. This is the sterling “character” of your candidate–go on, defend him.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:54 pm

  765. Try again. You asserted that President Bush made all of those accusations against Sen. McCain. Your failure to support this unfounded assertion proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a mendoucheous liar. Did you get a tingle up your leg while you were slandering Sen. McCain?

    When you care even 1/100th as much about ACORN as you do about some guy named Jacoby, maybe someone will take your faux-concern seriously.

    I am not deflecting or evading anything. I simple requested that you provide evidence for every one of your assertions.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:55 pm

  766. Your silence is deafening–or possibly, like McCain, you’ve got nothing to say except

    “I SCREWED UP”

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:55 pm

  767. Shucks, you guys don’t want to play in the sandbox anymore–too busy contributing to that defense fund for Mark Jacoby I guess

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:57 pm

  768. JerrySpringer,

    If you really want a response, which I doubt, then please take a breath and give people a chance to respond.

    Comment by DRJ (c953ab) — 10/22/2008 @ 1:57 pm

  769. I responded, Herr Jerry. I noted that you have failed to even attempt to substantiate your assertions.

    Enlighten us, Springer. How many people did Mark Jacoby fraudulently register? Then, compare that number to the literally tens, if not hundreds of thousands that ACORN did. Compare and contrast.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:03 pm

  770. DRJ – It does not want a response. It claims that President Bush made all of those accusations, and when pressed, refuses to substantiate that, or in the most likely scenario, is unable to. It just wanted to spit some Leftist bile out there.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:05 pm

  771. JD – Don’t you know who you are talking to?

    That’s Jerry Springer

    He proved yesterday that he can’t or won’t produce evidence for his baseless assertions.

    He’s a celebrity, like Barack. They don’t have to do shit like that. Stop asking him tough questions. His head might explode.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:08 pm

  772. That’s it JD, keep Deflecting, keep evading

    Just to keep things interesting here’s a post from one of Mark Jacoby’s “satisfied employees” in the Rip-off Report:

    my self and many others are victims of this mans games. he will hire you with the impression he is a professional in his field of petitioning. big promises of money are rebutled with ‘validity’ you only get paid 50 to 70 percent even if you do everything you are told. he keeps the extra money and you do get paid well but he gets paid very well. forget the last check. he will get you to work extra hard telling you there is a pay increase per signature collected for his petitions, he will leave town to go work some other town or state and not pay you. he is very good at this , even if you wanted to take him to court you cant becuase he has not real business address , no home or vehicle, he lives out of hotels and rental cars. if your work for this man. email me, hopefully i will have a lawyer who would like to work on a federal or class action law suit. many will testify, i know a few who have been riped of alot of money. my email is baguazhangster at gmail.com , my shift is not working. google mark jacoby and see what you come up with.

    joe
    philadelphi, Pennsylvania
    U.S.A.

    “Joe the Registerer Screwed By McCain Campaign”

    How’s that sound?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:12 pm

  773. Now here’s a scandal you can really sink your fangs, ah, teeth in!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:14 pm

  774. I wonder if Mark Jacoby pays his taxes?With all that hotel room and car living must be pretty hard for the IRS to track him down.

    Oh wait, he’s in jail–which of you upstanding citizens will forward this to the IRS so the rest of us can pay a few less taxes?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:17 pm

  775. That’s it JD, keep Deflecting, keep evading

    Your assertions, your burden of proof.

    Sounds like Jacoby is an asshat. You and he would probably get along quite well.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:27 pm

  776. It is a fair assumption, at this point, that JerryMendoucheousLiar cannot substantiate the allegations he made?

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:28 pm

  777. Oh, by the way, here’s a story on George W.’s questioning of McCain’s “adopted child”:

    With few substantive differences between Bush and McCain, the campaign was bound to turn personal. The situation was ripe for a smear.

    It didn’t take much research to turn up a seemingly innocuous fact about the McCains: John and his wife, Cindy, have an adopted daughter named Bridget. Cindy found Bridget at Mother Theresa’s orphanage in Bangladesh, brought her to the United States for medical treatment, and the family ultimately adopted her. Bridget has dark skin.

    Anonymous opponents used “push polling” to suggest that McCain’s Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the “pollster” determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

    Thus, the “pollsters” asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that’s not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign.

    Some aspects of this smear were hardly so subtle. Bob Jones University professor Richard Hand sent an e-mail to “fellow South Carolinians” stating that McCain had “chosen to sire children without marriage.” It didn’t take long for mainstream media to carry the charge. CNN interviewed Hand and put him on the spot: “Professor, you say that this man had children out of wedlock. He did not have children out of wedlock.” Hand replied, “Wait a minute, that’s a universal negative. Can you prove that there aren’t any?”

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:32 pm

  778. Source is Richard H. Davis, Boston Globe March 21, 2004.

    Over to you JD!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:37 pm

  779. Is it time for another Bash at that “elitist radical left media” because I used the Boston Globe as a source???? If so I’m sure you can get someone in the McCain campaign to independently verify this one.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:39 pm

  780. Jerry – That does not even prove your assertion, that it was President George Bush that made that accusation against Sen. McCain. But, nice try. You get a D- for effort. You still have about 20 more lies/assertions/canards/made up shit to substantiate. At this rate, the comments will be well into the thousands before you get around to documenting even 1 of your charges.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 2:39 pm

  781. Is it time for another Bash at that “elitist radical left media” because I used the Boston Globe as a source????

    Nope. Consider this a lesson in reading for comprehension. Your supporting documentation only supports the idea that the calls were made, and that some anonymous part made those assertions against Sen. McCain.

    What your documentation does not prove is that President George Bush was responsible for same. What your documentation does not show is anything that the remaining 10 asserions, some with additional assertions contained therin, can be traced back to accusations made by President Bush.

    You, my most certainly non-pal, are a liar. One of the bigger ones that has wandered around here.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:08 pm

  782. Hey JD,

    Now I’m a German “it”

    go on, throw in some “Zieg Heils”–I can take it.
    I actually thought you’d mine the Commie/Stalin bog further before going the Nazi angle. Now before we go any further can we just stipulate that you think I’m allied with: Castro, Che Guevara, Bin Laden, American Civil Liberties Union, PETA, Greenpeace, Amnesty International, Sierra Club, Al Quaeda, flouridation, etc., etc. and in general am not for “Truth, Justice and the American Way.”

    [The boldness of your political discourse thrills me by the way--but what do you do about all the bruises yet get from walking backwards all the time?]

    But you know, you’re still so convinced of Obama’s supposed shoddy character I think we’ll have another crack at matters of public record.

    So you’re still telling me:

    McCain didn’t crash a number of Navy planes which for any other officer less well-connected would have meant the end of his military career?

    McCain didn’t commit adultery?

    Cindy McCain wasn’t a drug addict?

    McCain was not brought up on charges of profanity?

    Bush’s 2000 campaign didn’t suggest McCain had fostered a black love-child

    Bush’s 2000 campaign didn’t suggest McCain was mentally unbalanced due to his prisoner of war experience?

    (There–I’ve distanced George W. from his campaign, so you can answer freely now)

    Oh, and sorry again, ACORN is being investigated for voter registration fraud–Mickey Mouse won’t get to cast a vote in 2008–he doesn’t have ID.

    Mark Jacoby/YPM is under arrest for voter fraud (though let’s not forget the perjury as well) which disenfranchises real (not fictional) people.

    Co-Chairman of the California McCain campaign paying him $5 a head for new Republican registers does kinda cause an ethical problem for the Straight Talk Express–I mean, if Jacoby & YPM accidentally registered Democrats do you think he turned in their forms?????????

    “All this money being spent in this election can only lead to abuses of the system”–now who said that, can’t quite remember.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:10 pm

  783. P.S.

    does it test your typing skills with your variations on “JerryMendoucheousLiar”?????

    Try “control+C then control+V”–don’t want you to retire from the fray because of carpal-tunnel.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:15 pm

  784. And are you taking your Statens regularly?

    Don’t want you to keel over either

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:17 pm

  785. Are you pausing to pull out another of your Italian Suppositories???

    You know the brand–INNUENDO

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:21 pm

  786. Come on–how about some wit, some style! Or are you reduced to barking like a dog at this point?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:22 pm

  787. Tell me truthfully–you’ve got your money in off-shore accounts just in case Obama wins, right?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:25 pm

  788. Your extra homes aren’t in the States–where are they? Mexico? Canada?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:26 pm

  789. How much will McCain’s tax cut personally benefit you?

    Come on, don’t be shy now!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:27 pm

  790. (Just for the record, McCain’s tax cut would benefit me more than Obama’s–just in case you were wondering)

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:29 pm

  791. You people who are trying to tie Obama to Ayers are morons.

    It’s just a little game that McCain played, and it had it’s time, now it’s washed over. Stop trying to get evidence for petty bullshit that isn’t cared about by the majority of the nation (except the conformist republicans of course, being the white, Christians).

    We’re not gonna start a shithole of comments with McCain.

    Comment by Nikhil (b51f40) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:29 pm

  792. Do you pronounce: “You are a traitor to you class”?

    Oh, I’m sorry, it’s Obama who’s the class warfarist–silly me!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:31 pm

  793. So why am I voting Obama?

    Perhaps none of you can remember back in the depression when the inequality between rich and poor was so great that an American Communist Party developed quite a large following.

    Simply put, if we haves continue getting richer while the general state of the country (infrastructure, education, police, etc.)
    continues to deteriorate we do so at our own peril.

    I for one do not want to kill the goose which lays the golden eggs.

    Last election people were worried about dying in the beds at the hands of terrorists. This election people are quite rightly worried if they will have beds to die in at all.

    Even the mildest animals when cornered will fight. If we continue to drive millions into poverty and homelessness then you will look back on a missed opportunity to elect a centrist with more than nostalgia!

    “Outright Socialism” you cry! Garbage. The smarter ones among you know that there will be plenty of opportunities in an Obama administration–just not the same old ones which we’ve had for the last 10 years. Tough. That’s what capitalism (as I understand it) is all about: taking advantage of opportunities as they occur.

    You want to get nostalgic about the past? Go rerun some old Bush videos. Meanwhile seriously think about where you and this country are going to be in 10 years. McCain is the past, not the future.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:49 pm

  794. So you’re still telling me:

    No. But it is not the least bit surprising that you are running away from your assertion that President Bush made all of those assertions against Sen. McCain. You still have not supplied even one bit of evidence of same.

    There are none that are so blind that refuse to see.

    Jerry – I do not see where McCain’s tax cuts will benefit me, anymore than Bush’s already do. We do have vacation homes, both stateside. Not sure what relevance any of that has on this discussion of your propensity to lie.

    Do you pronounce: “You are a traitor to you class”?

    Oh, I’m sorry, it’s Obama who’s the class warfarist–silly me!

    This is a kind of off-the-wall tangent. You shouldn’t argue with the voices in your head.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 3:49 pm

  795. Ah JD,

    I forgot the mentally deficient and insane angles in your “evade the questions” playbook–top marks for spotting every loophole!

    (Do you perform as well on your 1040?)

    So let me get this straight—-as your narrow-mindedness is truly breathtaking:

    The Anti-McCain ads suggesting he fathered a black love-child were not the product of the Bush campaign?

    They just materialized out of thin air by some non-corporeal being who happened to have a few advertizing dollars and saw George W. as the Compassionate Conservative that he is?

    Also you keep calling me a “liar” when I see from your previous entries that you (while not cornering the market on unsubstantiated rumor) certainly have more than a casual, dare I say intimate relationship with Miss-Information. (I’m sure there are very cute photos of the two of you on holiday!)

    So here’s an easy one for you–right over the plate–tell me how McCain did not commit adultery with Cindy while he was stepping out on his wife and three kids? Knock that “lie” right out of the ballpark–go ahead!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:19 pm

  796. I mean you’re the one who wants to make this election a referendum on character–right?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:22 pm

  797. The Anti-McCain ads suggesting he fathered a black love-child were not the product of the Bush campaign?

    Your assertion, your burden of proof. What I think has little bearing on it.

    So here’s an easy one for you–right over the plate–tell me how McCain did not commit adultery with Cindy while he was stepping out on his wife and three kids? Knock that “lie” right out of the ballpark–go ahead!

    Nice try. Again, your assertion is that President Bush made these allegations against Sen. McCain.

    You have made dozens of comments talking about everything except actually sourcing your assertions. As stated previously, you can clear this all up by documenting where President Bush made these allegations.

    I love Leftist language. Asking for documentation is somehow evasion. Again, your assertion, your burden of proof. You are woefully deficient so far. Not even close.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:25 pm

  798. I mean you’re the one who wants to make this election a referendum on character–right?

    Nope. Wrong again. SHOCKA.

    Comment by JD (c69925) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:26 pm

  799. I’ll give it to you with a McCarthyesque inflection:

    Did John Sidney McCain commit or did he not commit adultery?

    Answer the question please sir!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:29 pm

  800. Or is this not a legitimate question about character?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:30 pm

  801. The Women of America wait with baited breath for your answer sir.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:30 pm

  802. Is it Yes or is it No?

    Or do you plead the fifth?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:31 pm

  803. You’re allowed the “But he’s paid his debt to society” angle in your answer if it makes you feel any better.

    Though I doubt the former Mrs. McCain would agree with you.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:34 pm

  804. JOHN MCCAIN WILLING TO SCREW OVER HIS OWN WIFE AND KIDS IN PURSUIT OF PERSONAL, AHEM, “AMBITIONS”

    That about right?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:35 pm

  805. I mean, I seem to recall many tax-payer dollars spent on investigating President Clinton’s inter-office fellatios.

    Republicans tried to impeach him on it–spending even more tax payer dollars while they were at it.

    Don’t we want to avoid electing a president with similar, ah, “issues”?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:39 pm

  806. You seem to have lost your playbook–here, let me help:

    A) Refute
    B) Deny
    C) Claim statue of limitations (“That was long ago, etc., etc.)
    D) Change the subject and attack Obama
    E) Change the subject and attack me

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:41 pm

  807. Aw, is JD mad?

    Did bad, bad JS go and show him dirty underbelly of his McCain doll?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:42 pm

  808. Maybe JD can put beanie with propeller on top of McCain doll to divert eyes from sad muck stain?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:46 pm

  809. Don’t cry JD, I’m sure RNC will come out with better doll in 4 years

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:47 pm

  810. Maybe JD need to crawl under covers until bad, bad JS goes away.

    I’m sure mommy will bring JD warm milk soon

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:49 pm

  811. Is there a bigger assclown astroturfing this site?

    And what’s with the redirect to sedo.com?

    JS was mayor of Cincinnati or was that Moonbeam Kucinich? The motley groups of mutants on his TV shows could be interchangeable with the typical clueless Obamaturd.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:50 pm

  812. JD I know you wanted a Dick Cheney doll instead but you shouldn’t complain about Santa’s gifts–you know he loves you. And the Easter Bunny sends his best wishes too!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:53 pm

  813. Having trouble with your control+C and control+V?

    Where’s your accustomed vitriol to deflect from answering the question?

    Do do that Vodoo that you do so well!”

    OR maybe you could just fess up and state the simple truth:

    “Yes, John Sidney McCain committed adultery”

    Too early for a Halloween cat to have caught your tongue.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:56 pm

  814. WIVES & CHILDREN OF AMERICA—-JOHN MCCAIN WILL SELL YOU OUT FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL GOALS

    that about right?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 4:58 pm

  815. JD, I hope you’re not married, cause while John McCain is in your home (excuse me) homes fixing something he might also be making time with your wife.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 5:01 pm

  816. Though I doubt the former Mrs. McCain would agree with you.

    Maybe you should ask her who she is supporting.

    Again, I am going to approach you with singleness of purpose. You made a series of assertions that President Bush made allegations against Sen. McCain. You have yet to provide anything that remotely approaches documentation to support your assertions. Until you do, I have nothing to say to you.

    FWIW – You made 14 comments in approx. 20 minutes. Heaven forbid someone step away from the computer for a moment. In the interim, you remained dishonest. SHOCKA.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 5:02 pm

  817. JD, I hope you’re not married, cause while John McCain is in your home (excuse me) homes fixing something he might also be making time with your wife.

    Go fuck yourself.

    And with typical moonbat asshattery, you claim that President Clinton’s impeachment had to do with sex, as opposed to his perjury. Given your proclivity to lie, I can see how that did not bother you when he did it.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 5:04 pm

  818. Maria,

    I am your neighbor, I see you almost every day when you are out. On the other hand, I have NEVER allowed Bill Ayers in my house, or accepted an invitation to his. I strongly believe that deliberately setting out to kill or maim someone is crossing the civilization line. Only once did I bring this up with another neighbor, and was almost thrown out of their house. This to me is the main problem with Hyde Park. Too many people put politics above morality.

    Comment by Obama's Neighbor (f28dac) — 10/22/2008 @ 5:13 pm

  819. So JD, you’ve become self-proclaimed Ruler of The Universe and Font of All Knowledge & Wisdom.

    And the best you can do is:

    “Go fuck yourself”

    How eloquent!

    “moonbat asshattery”

    How creative!

    Well, we certainly know what kind of country we’ll get for the next 4 years if you have your way.

    Despite your evasion (as usual) do you really not think McCain committed adultery????

    REALLY???????

    If you are that far gone from reality perhaps you need to spend some time in your vacation home and recuperate.

    And by the way, if you are really that far gone should I listen to any claims you have to make about any “connection” between Obama & Ayers?

    Sorry JD, but I’ve been using classic RNC smear strategy with you.

    GAME OVER.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 5:23 pm

  820. JerrySpringer – Just thought I would check in to see if you were still lying.

    You acted shocked, shocked I tell you, that I might react to you speculating about John McCain fucking my wife.

    So, again, I ask, despite all of your obfuscation, do you have any evidence to support your assertions? Anything other than documentation that George Bush made those allegations against Senator McCain will be prima facie evidence that you were lying. Period.

    Good luck.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:22 pm

  821. I love it when twatwaffles like this one declare victory over a debate that could have only happened in its head.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:23 pm

  822. Sheesh, what a flaming loon.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:27 pm

  823. Here’s something that may be tangentially related to the thread. At least it kind puts the ixnay on Ayers just being a “war protester.”

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:32 pm

  824. - Ayers wasn’t really against the Vietnam war, he just wanted the commies to win. Zombie has Ayer’s forgotten Communist manifesto: Prairie Fire

    http://www.zombietime.com/prairie_fire/

    the murderous scumbucket was planning on seizing power in a violent Communist takeover of the United States.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:32 pm

  825. SPQR – I am not sure why, but I am not willing to let this one get away with its lies. It is not bringing anything to the table that we have not seen before, there is just something to brazenly arrogant about it that keeps me from being able to brush it off. It is a mendoucheous liar, a small pathetic person.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:32 pm

  826. Whack at it, JD. I’m the last to criticize, eh?

    CW, yes the claim that Ayers was a “war protestor” is a lie. Ayers was on the side of our enemies. And still is. So why would any sane American vote for his political protege?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:36 pm

  827. Sorry cw desiato. we posted at same time. I caught it over at lgf. I’m sure the media has no interest in it at all.

    Really wondering what the hell is it with these polls and talks of being tied or at same time Obama headed for landslide. he’s talking like he’s confident that’s he’s the one and things are being set up for victory party already. And we have all this assHOLE so-called conservatives saying Prez. Obama is a given and some even asserting the polls are way undermeasuring the support for Obama. I think Moran at rightwingnuthouse has partaken of the Obama koolaid juice too.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:39 pm

  828. CW, yes the claim that Ayers was a “war protestor” is a lie. Ayers was on the side of our enemies. And still is. So why would any sane American vote for his political protege?

    Comment by SPQR — 10/22/2008 @ 7:36 pm

    Obviously because McCain crashed planes.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:40 pm

  829. Photo of the kind of friend Barack and Michelle have.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 7:40 pm

  830. ‘Wanted By the FBI.’ Bernardette Dohrn. Isn’t it disgusting? It’s Obama’s crowd, littered with felons, racists and playas. Powell must have shrapnel on the brain.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:02 pm

  831. CW – He also sold out the American military. I know that to be true because JerrySpringer told me that President Bush once alleged that.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:03 pm

  832. I was called a “racist” on another blog for using the phrase “Obama’s thugs”.

    It was hilarious.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:03 pm

  833. Where?

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:08 pm

  834. I will be nice ;-)

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:08 pm

  835. Springer is comedy gold but loquacious.

    He makes a series of statements about things Bush said about McCain and demainds responses.

    Pressed to prove that Bush actually said the things Springer claims, Springer abandonds his original claims and revises them to say the Bush Campaign said the about McCain.

    No proof is actually provided that either Bush or the Bush Campaign ever said the things about McCain which Springer claims.

    Springer claims McCain is going to defile JD’s wife, declares victory and goes home.
    __________________________________________-

    A Patterico Classic I’d say!

    Yesterday Springer got pants’d for not knowing the details of the Keating Five scandal. He must have been taking his talking points from TPM, Americablog or Racistdogfakes.

    Some good trolls would be nice for a change!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:20 pm

  836. daleyrocks – That is a pretty accurate assessment.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:26 pm

  837. Just how accurate have Zogby polls been? I seem to recall they were way off in ’04. So now he states that McCain leads Obama by 2% among the military personnel. Meanwhile an “Army Times” poll has McCain up 67% to 23%. Quite a digression. Could we have more snafus with military absentee ballots again?

    Don’t see why some 527 group doesn’t advertise the ways of the the left as revealed by http://www.zombietime.com Those people are total freaks. Todd Browning would have been proud.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:27 pm

  838. Look guys here’s your problem:

    If the breadth of your candidate’s vision (as represented by your charming selves) extends from “I screwed up” to “Go fuck yourself” I think you may have a problem winning the election.

    SO—you’ve come up with this little smear blog.

    Let’s look at how a good smear works.

    You take a fact:

    John McCain committed adultery.

    You exaggerate the fact:

    John McCain is going to sleep with your wife.

    Then you step back from this assertion to a FEAR zone:

    John McCain has committed adultery—if the only way for him to win this election was to commit adultery again, would he do it? I mean, if seducing your wife was the way to do it—based on his previous actions, would you leave him alone with her? Would you?

    It’s about raising FEAR in the mind of a voter based on a narrowly defined perception of the candidate’s past performance.

    This forum is a Bill Ayers smear blog designed to instill fear of Obama.

    If you don’t like me pointing this out, then you’re saying “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” in your Merry Ol’ Land of Oz and you have bigger problems with the truth than all the “lies” of which you accuse me.

    Credit where credit is due: I do have to thank you all for educating me on the adultery angle.

    I had no idea McCain supporters were so touchy on this issue.

    I’ll be sure to bring it up whenever & wherever I see you folks spreading your Ayers muck.

    So toss your fear where you may—I don’t think anyone’s buying this season. (You are all tossers.)

    A great president once said “we have nothing to fear but fear itself,” but these days with you folks it patriotic to be afraid—and color-coded too! And what are we supposed to be afraid of? Why of being afraid—that’s what terror means, doesn’t it? That’s what it used to mean.

    Look on the bright side—once you guys get your heads out of the sand and brush away the cobwebs you’ll find America is actually the greatest country in the world.

    And if you really think John McCain would be a great president tell me about that–rather than all this baloney-without-the-mayo Ayers tripe.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:42 pm

  839. SO—you’ve come up with this little smear blog.

    This blog has been here since at least 2003.

    You were the one that chose to drag my wife into it, and you will not be forgiven for that. That was direct, and quite personal.

    We await your documentation of the multiple assertions that you claim to have been made by President Bush towards Sen. McCain. So far, you have substantiated exactly none of them.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:48 pm

  840. Look JerrySpringer here’s your problem :

    You are a liar.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:49 pm

  841. Thanks Jerry – Why are you here again?

    Who sent you?

    Why are we supposed to ignore the lies you post? Could you go over that one more time? It didn’t sink in.

    Point out lies told about connections between Obama and Ayers here if you can find any if that’s what has you upset. Present your support if you have any. That’s an area where you have been dreadfully weak Jerry, but I’m sure you know that.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:50 pm

  842. daley – The cutest part about him is that he presumes to know what we think about things.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:53 pm

  843. “And if you really think John McCain would be a great president tell me about that–rather than all this baloney-without-the-mayo Ayers tripe.”

    Jerry – It’s comments like this that get people here excited. Under an Obama Administration it appears there will be all sorts of thought and speech police and we’ve already seen it occurring during this campaign. People prefer to talk about what they want to talk about, not what some asshat mental midget Obamatard who can’t find his rectum with both hands demands they talk about.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:55 pm

  844. Surely we can get to 1000 comments on this thread.

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/22/2008 @ 8:59 pm

  845. JerrySpringer can get to 1000 all by himself.

    Comment by DRJ (c953ab) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:00 pm

  846. Jerry Springer’s a worthless troll.

    A worthless troll with nothing to say to anyone’s face.

    Only over the internet.

    It insults and lies from a safe distance, like all cowards.

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:01 pm

  847. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry

    Use the Pole!

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:02 pm

  848. Patterico – Jerry Springer was averaging almost a comment a minute for a 20 minute period earlier today. I am sure it is good for at least 50 more comments where it demonstrates its inability to source the multiple fabricated allegations it made.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:02 pm

  849. I am pretty certain that JerrySpringer would not have said that about my wife to my face.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:03 pm

  850. Jerry – Why have you chosen to perseverate on only one thread on this smear blog? Are you related to Bill Ayers or Barack Obama?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:03 pm

  851. NYC_Chic was going pretty aggressively and mendoucheously the first night of the thread.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:05 pm

  852. Yes, daley, NYC chica was a feisty liar too. But the Springer Show has run away with the competition.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:08 pm

  853. JD – My statement about Springer being too cowardly to say something like that to someone else’s face was directly related to the comments regarding your wife.

    But the Springer Show has run away with the competition.

    And volume does not beget quality.

    Comment by Apogee (366e8b) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:16 pm

  854. Apogee – Great minds, and all …

    If there was ever a more appropriate nomme de idéotie than JerrySpringer, I have yet to encounter it.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/22/2008 @ 9:21 pm

  855. JerryS,

    I’m not going to make a rule of this; it’s just a request.

    I’m asking you to post only one stupid thought per comment.

    So, for example, if you have three stupid thoughts to post, put them in three comments. Five stupid thoughts, five separate comments. Six stupid thoughts, six stupid comments.

    Let me know when you see the pattern.

    Again, it’s not a rule. But here on my little smear blog, I feel validated somehow when one of my little smear posts threatens to push quadruple digits in comments.

    You can help by parceling out your own stupid thoughts. I feel confident that you have dozens more in you. All I ask is that you break them up by hitting the “Submit Comment” button every now and then.

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:57 am

  856. Do you see where I’m going with this, Jerry?

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:58 am

  857. I mean, do you?

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:58 am

  858. Really?

    Comment by Patterico (cc3b34) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:58 am

  859. It would be great if Jerry thought he was posting and yet even though his comments showed up on his pc, no one else could see them. There was some controversy earlier in the year where some newspaper blog or whatever was doing just that. My impending Alzheimer’s mind cannot recall the particulars.

    What are the chances the only reason Jerry had that long string of uninterrupted posts because he never logged off when everyone else was encountering sedo? In any case where are the modern day filibusterers to put this string over 1000? The rest of the yahoo originating trolls must be frustrated not getting back here. Or the regular Tokyo Rose replicants for that matter.

    Is there life before death? That old philosopher Gabby Hayes said that when you’re dead, you’re dead a long, long time. I wish someone would look into all the bogus polling that strives to make some people give up and avoid voting. I know I was discouraged entering the voting booth in 2004, hearing that exit polls had Lurch trouncing Bush soundly. I’m hoping the talking head network bozos don’t pull more stunts like they did here calling it for algore when polls were still open in Fla. panhandle.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:53 am

  860. Great post & even better comments.

    Comment by PghGirl412 (d687d0) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:32 am

  861. Just doing my part to help reach quad digits, this is great stuff.

    Comment by PghGirl412 (d687d0) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:33 am

  862. Credit where credit is due: I do have to thank you all for educating me on the adultery angle.

    I had no idea McCain supporters were so touchy on this issue.

    I’ll be sure to bring it up whenever & wherever I see you folks spreading your Ayers muck.

    That’s a fantastic plan, Jerry. I like it so much that I’m going to help you out. Click here. You’ll find lots of blogs talking about Ayers. fertile ground for the seeds of your McCain adultery plan. Go forth and prosper. And maybe drop us a postcard now and then.

    Comment by Pablo (99243e) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:38 am

  863. I’m not touchy about McCain’s marital problems. I don’t care at all in fact.

    I’m touchy about lying asshats who think that McCain’s domestic failures compare to a long and close relationship with people who attempted to violently overthrow the government of the United States

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:50 am

  864. Wow! I missed a new record in trollery. Amazing.

    Comment by Mike K (2cf494) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:53 am

  865. Interesting that we’re here on comment 860-ish talking (sort of) about Bill “just a small ‘c” communist” Ayers. I wonder what it is about Bill “free as a bird but guilty as hell” Ayers that brings out the trolls en masse?

    Could it be that there’s more to Bill “Air Venezuela Platinum Club member” Ayers than meets the (MSM’s) eye?

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:57 am

  866. Hey Smack Talk Expressers! How are you? Coats shiny? Noses wet? I see some of you were up really late & very early running in your wheels–I hope you’re not too tired. I know, I know, I’m late with your feed:

    John Sidney McCain committed adultery with the daughter of a convicted felon, stepping out on his injured wife and three children. President Reagan and his wife Nancy were so appalled by McCain’s behavior they subsequently gave the wronged woman a job in the White House.

    No go ahead and chew thoroughly—wouldn’t want any of you to get tummy aches! And remember, as James Dobson says, “Character Counts!”

    Now—Can any of you explain how John McCain will “Cunt Tax” (sic)?

    (I think he meant “Cut Tax” there, but you know there may be more to this adultery thing than you guys are willing to admit)

    McCain wants to keep the Bush Tax Cuts—right?
    (sorry, sorry, I know John McCain is not George Bush)

    The Bush Tax Cuts have not prevented the current financial crisis.

    So how is the new Bush—sorry—McCain tax cut going to get us out of the crisis?

    60 to 70% of America’s current economic activity is from consumer spending.

    In the current crisis does it make sense to cut taxes for lower and middle income taxpayers to stimulate consumer spending or for the nation’s wealthiest corporations and individuals?

    When John McCain cuts his own taxes more than $100,000 is he going to go out and spend it at various small businesses?

    I’m sure Sarah Palin will continue her spending sprees at Nieman Marcus and Saks 5th Avenue, but won’t the wealthiest Americans just look for safer investments in the current shaky economic climate? Like high interest bonds, gems, precious metals, artworks, possibly some foreclosed real estate—wise investments all. But not likely to help the economy get out of a recession.

    So tell me McCain Answer Men (& Women), how is John McCain going to fix the number one problem facing this country?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 8:24 am

  867. Jerry Springer – Your host asked you to put all of your stupid thoughts in seperate comments. Were you to have done so, we would have passed 900 comments by now.

    I see you continue to fail to substantiate all of the smears and lies that you puked out yesterday. That tells us much about you.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 8:28 am

  868. I think we need Dr. Phil on here to straighten Jerry out.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/23/2008 @ 9:01 am

  869. Ya know, some of you guys just keep goin’ on and on about how I’m a liar and I think all those Joe Six packs, hockey moms and members of the 3rd grade out there need to hear it from ya straight. So you go tell ‘em and start explainin’ how and why the followin’ statement is, well, ya know, false:

    John Sidney McCain committed adultery with the daughter of a convicted felon, stepping out on his injured wife and three children. President Reagan and his wife Nancy were so appalled by McCain’s behavior they subsequently gave the wronged woman a job in the White House.

    You betcha!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 9:41 am

  870. Jerry – Easy related questions.

    Is there anything Obama won’t lie about? Is there any position he won’t or hasn’t changed?

    Go back 18 months. Show your work.

    I can think of two things but he has been very nuancy. You mileage obviously will vary.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/23/2008 @ 9:42 am

  871. you damn people have no respect for the Reagans. Enemy of my enemy thing?

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 9:43 am

  872. JerrySpringer – You made a series of at least 10 assertions that you claim that President Bush made against Sen. McCain. YOu have repeatedly been requested to support those assertions, and the one time you tried, you failed to do so, miserably. Until you do so, we can assume that you are either lying, or just incredibly ignorant.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 9:49 am

  873. Jerry Springer – Your host asked you to put all of your stupid thoughts in seperate comments.

    Comment by JD — 10/23/2008 @ 8:28 am

    JD, I don’t think we need to specify that Jerry’s “thoughts” are “stupid” as “stupid” is the default setting.

    I’m torn on using the word “thoughts” because “thoughts” implies some sort of “thinking.” Reading Jerry’s posts, I can’t really find any “thinking” going on.

    It’s more like “text farts.”

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/23/2008 @ 9:51 am

  874. You guys keep throwing the Liar card so how about we take a look at what I’ve actually affirmed. Back to SMEAR 101:

    First—the long list of potential McCain smears was presented both hypothetically and conditionally. Do you guys ever actually listen to Sean Hannity? “If I were to bring up…which I’m not….but if I were….” Ring any bells there? Hypothetical and conditional.

    Second—From that list I personally have never affirmed anything that is not a matter of public record:

    McCain crashed a bunch of planes.
    Cindy McCain had a drug problem.
    McCain’s father-in-law is a convicted felon
    McCain committed adultery
    President Reagan and his wife Nancy gave the wronged former Mrs. McCain a job in the White House and were appalled at McCain’s treatment of her.

    Three—If you choose to think I affirmed the other items then honi y soit qui mal y pense and you’re playing the smear game perfectly—wasting time, money & resources on chimera.

    Now if you say President Bush had nothing to do with the negative attack ads which implied McCain had fathered an illegitimate black love child I apologize–but also have to paraphrase Bob Jones University professor Richard Hand, ‘Wait a minute, that’s a universal negative. Can you prove he didn’t?’

    This is a smear blog–impure and surely not simple. If you don’t wish to “come dirty” about what you’re doing here then at least display a bit more mental agility, verbal adroitness and general competence in your “arguments.”

    Asshat? Mendoucheous?–where do you come up with such archaic-sounding and essentially soft-centered abuse. Where’s your Spanish flare: “May the Holy Mother defecate her burrito lunch in your hirsute nostrils!”? Your German subtletly: “May your duelling wounds heal leaving absolutely no scars!” Oh sorry, forgot–you’re more interested in invading foreign cultures than learning anything about them.

    But I do begin to fear I’m dealing with the denture and colostomy bag crowd here. Anybody really want to try to explain the McCain tax cut plan…….without mentioning Ayers?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:09 am

  875. No, again, you lie. Your premise was that President Bush made all of those accusations against Sen. McCain. You can try to rewrite history now, but we are used to that. You have failed, miserably, to support even one of those assertions.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:28 am

  876. Can you prove he didn’t?

    It is your assertion. The burden of proof is on you, not the other way around.

    Oh sorry, forgot–you’re more interested in invading foreign cultures than learning anything about them.

    I can almost guarantee that I know more languages than you, but that is not really relevant to the discussion. I like your Phil-esque smear you tossed in there. Brava.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:31 am

  877. How does one go about invading a culture?

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:32 am

  878. I think those 150,000 troops in Iraq need to hear from you JD–apparently they haven’t invaded the country and can come home now–right?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:35 am

  879. No, you said invaded a culture. I know what a country is.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:42 am

  880. Asshat? Mendoucheous?

    Why, yes. Yes you are! And so much more!

    Anybody really want to try to explain the McCain tax cut plan…….without mentioning Ayers?

    Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/23/2008 @ 10:09 am

    Not really because this post is about Ayers. But just to appease you:

    McCain plans on cutting taxes for everyone.

    Obama plans on cutting taxes for about 55% of the people.

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:43 am

  881. CW – Even 55% is pretty generous. His proposal would give an income tax credit for people’s payroll taxes, thus removing more and more people from the funding of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. He will give refundable tax credits to people not currently paying income tax. His plan continues to reduce the actual number of taxpayers, moving us closer and closer to the point where a majority of Americans do not pay income taxes at all.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:46 am

  882. Jerry – You have still failed to document your assertions. Given the amount of time that has passed, and comments you have left since, it is obvious you are unable to do so. Were you just making shit up, were you willfully ignorant, or aggressively dishonest. The people have a right to know.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:48 am

  883. Comment by JD — 10/23/2008 @ 10:48 am

    His time expired on the PL computer, and he had to relinquish the station to another patron.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:50 am

  884. CW – Even 55% is pretty generous. His proposal would give an income tax credit for people’s payroll taxes, thus removing more and more people from the funding of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. He will give refundable tax credits to people not currently paying income tax. His plan continues to reduce the actual number of taxpayers, moving us closer and closer to the point where a majority of Americans do not pay income taxes at all.

    Comment by JD — 10/23/2008 @ 10:46 am

    Agreed. I’m just playing down to the “audience.”

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:53 am

  885. The people indeed have a right to know about this smear blog.

    And it is indeed a neat trick that you guys keep calling me a liar but none of you will flatly deny and state unequivocally that the following assertion is untrue:

    John Sidney McCain committed adultery with the daughter of a convicted felon, stepping out on his injured wife and three children. President Reagan and his wife Nancy were so appalled by McCain’s behavior they subsequently gave the wronged woman a job in the White House.

    Come on Sox Girl! There apparently aren’t any real men on this blog. Show ‘em who really wears the pants!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:53 am

  886. Seems like we know all about Mccain and Palin, but their is a boycott on providing much knowledge about dear Leader Null. The media can’t dig out people from BO’s past to opine about him or provide any deep background? Are all the junkies and drug dealers he hung around with now deceased? We know that W and Todd Palin both had DUIs long ago? No records of anything that BO did are available? No love childs around? The NY Slimes and LATs bend over backwards to cover the Breck Girl’s ass and make Cindy McCain and Palin targets at every opportunity. Why not the same for I hate Whitey and Amerikkka Michelle O? How about those rumors of BO’s sexual exploits inside Wright’s church? Not worth dignifying I suppose, but just fine suggesting that McCain had an affair with a lobbyist?

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:54 am

  887. It is not our burden to prove your lies for you. The burden of proof is on you to support your position.

    CW – If you are trying to play down to it, you will need a Barney video, and will need to start using mono-syllabic words.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 10:57 am

  888. Show ‘em who really wears the pants!

    Comment by JerrySpringer — 10/23/2008 @ 10:53 am

    Your boyfriend?

    Comment by CW Desiato (614aa7) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:00 am

  889. “I’m not saying John McCain had an affair with a lobbyist, but if George Bush were running against McCain today we might….”

    Sound familiar Sean Hannity?

    So who is the stand-up guy or gal who will claim McCain’s adultery is untrue?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:02 am

  890. CW – My daughter has a pile of Webkinz, and each and every one of them are exponentially more logical and honest than Springer. He does a disservice to the name of a wonderful Harley.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:03 am

  891. “I’m not saying John McCain had an affair with a lobbyist, but if George Bush were running against McCain today we might….”

    There is no evidence to support any of your malicious smears in that assertion.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:04 am

  892. Aw CW Desiato–you’ve finally gone with the homosexual smear–want to send over your wife and mistress to test that one out?

    Now let’s see what have you got left in the bottom of your scum buckets?????

    Sex with farm animals?

    Devil Worship?

    Space Alien?

    John McCain Supporter?

    (oops, sorry–that’s you)

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:14 am

  893. …and it continues to “win friends, and influence people”.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:18 am

  894. Hey Another Drew–long time no see!

    So how many of you Fantasy Land aficionados am I in here with? I hope the line for Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride isn’t too long. If it is I can just look at the McCain economic plan to get the same effect, right?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:24 am

  895. That Jerry acts indignant that someone mocks it is pretty humorous, since it had no problem speculating about Sen. McCain screwing my wife.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:24 am

  896. It appears to be getting excited. This tends to produce wild accusations, and general hysteria.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:26 am

  897. Comment by JD — 10/23/2008 @ 11:24 am

    Remember in “The Right Stuff” when test-pilots would talk about screwing-up as “screw(ing) the pooch”?

    We have now found the off-spring of that union.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:27 am

  898. AD – It is going to go insane over that one. It predicted that we would go the small farm animal route, but you went the domestic pet route. ;-)

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:29 am

  899. Just trying to burnish my literary credentials.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:30 am

  900. …and another thing:
    Only a Bolshevik would go the small farm-animal route.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:31 am

  901. 900 !!!!

    And JerrySpringer still has not supported even one of his smears. SHOCKA

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:32 am

  902. Not true. Buggering goats is one of the twatwaffles pastimes.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:32 am

  903. …to embellish on your HD remark earlier, perhaps we should refer to this non-entity as JerrySpringless?

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:34 am

  904. Comment by JD — 10/23/2008 @ 11:32 am

    Ergo, Twatwaffles are Bolshies.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:35 am

  905. Aw JD, I’m back to an “it”–you really shouldn’t have–my friends will be so envious when they see it on my mantel!

    So JD will you be my dreamboat and deny that John McCain committed adultery?

    Pretty pleeze with sugar on top?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:36 am

  906. …anyway, I would think that goats are a “bridge too far” for springless; chickens would be more in its’ range.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:37 am

  907. Go on JD, you can do it–I’m not part of the Obama campaign and you can be sure they won’t run any McCain Adultery attack ads.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:39 am

  908. I know you guys are having fun in the barn yard–maybe a little too much fun actually–on second thoughts don’t send your wives and mistresses over–I don’t want to catch something nasty!

    But back to our thrilling political discourse.
    Let me gauge the caliber of whom I am dealing with here: If I said the sky was blue would you say I lied, distorted and grossly misrepresent the facts because I didn’t mention the clouds???????

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:48 am

  909. Shouldn’t there be special recognition for post #1000? What is the high number of posts in Patterico’s five years plus a day? How many mutant libtards from the fever swamps have posted here in the past 1832 days or so? How many of them have shoe sizes which exceed their IQ?

    Did you know that McCain was a wild and crazy guy in his youth? Obama’s hetting high on cocaine doesn’t count because blacks have a need to perform to cultural norms. Ditto for banging the ho’s, wearing the bling and drinking dat malt liquor.

    Send in the clowns. My state already has Wexler and Hastings. I think Springer was talking of running for Congress in Ohio, the Senate perhaps? And Chrissie I squat to pee Matthews for Pa. US Senator.

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:48 am

  910. I’m not part of the Obama campaign and you can be sure they won’t run any McCain Adultery attack ads.

    Since when did the Demwits become so intolerant? (/Sarc 4 U)

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:50 am

  911. And while you were “playing” with the chickens did they happen to tell you about McCain’s adultery?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:51 am

  912. If I said the sky was blue would you say I lied, distorted and grossly misrepresent the facts because I didn’t mention the clouds???????”

    No. But Obama would. That’s how his masters have run his entire enterprise. Any other questions?

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:54 am

  913. Hey here’s a big shout out to Vermont Neighbor!

    Maybe you can take a swing at this one:

    John Sydney McCain: Adulterer–true or false?

    [No help from our studio audience as you may damage Vermont Neighbor's chances of going on to the final round]

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:54 am

  914. Poor Jerry One-Note!
    Just can’t get those barnyard animals out of his twisted, bent, mind.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 11:57 am

  915. Like Obama, he’s also strayed and it’s unfortunate. But his ex supports his candidacy, is a woman who was married to a returning POW and unlike Barry, was not someone having gay relations in the back of his preacher’s church.

    And, with Mrs. McCain much less rabid to look at than Michelle-0, you can’t lose. That is, 2 McCain ladies near the White House equals double the class. What say you, Springy?

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:05 pm

  916. Audience, shall we take Vermont Neighbor’s answer,
    “he’s also strayed” as TRUE?????

    (loud shouts) YES!!!!!!!!!!!

    Correct! You’ve qualified to move onto the next round of The Smear Game!

    But first a word from our sponsors:

    What Republican Smear Campaigners say:

    Obama is bad. Obama is a no good, terrorist-loving commie. Crack and whores are Obama’s two favorite pastimes. Obama is an Arab. Obama only drives foreign cars and wears Italian suits, etc., etc.

    What Independent Voters hear:

    Obama blah blah. Obama blah blah blah-blah blah. Blah blah blah blah Obama blah blah blah. Obama blah blah blah. Obama blah blah blah blah blah blah………..

    Republican Smear Campaigning is a terrible, mind-destroying disease. Please give generously to help these poor afflicted souls to step out of the darkness and into the light.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:18 pm

  917. That was a word from James Dobson for focus on the family reminding you that Character Counts!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:20 pm

  918. Wow. You’ve convinced me. I’m off to donate with the Germans! Obomber 4Evah!!!!11!!! !!!

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:22 pm

  919. So maybe you want to get those Independent Voters back with a few words about McCain’s Tax Cut plan?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:22 pm

  920. No, Vermont Neighbor, I would never traduce your good name with the label Independant Voter.

    I take it from your response that you personally believe and affirm Obama is a bomber–correct?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:27 pm

  921. “You’re either WITH McCain or you’re WITH the Terrorists”

    Great Campaign Slogan there!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:28 pm

  922. Jeri Springer:
    Thank goodness, then. At least you’re voting for HRC or Ron Paul. We’re thankful — grateful, actually — you’re not pulling the lever for that dreadful Socialist out of Chicago’s back room of filth. So yeah. You’re okay.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:28 pm

  923. I think you need to move to Minnesota in a hurry to help Michele Bachmann’s campaign–she desperately needs your clear and non-hysterical message.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:31 pm

  924. Still no takers on extolling the virtues of McCain’s Tax Cut Plan here?

    C’mon–I know someone out there must be able to explain it to me

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:34 pm

  925. #920:

    Just as much as I believe you’re Jerry Springer. Sort that one out.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:34 pm

  926. Or are we just going to devolve into name-morphs:

    McNasty, McGrumpy, McSulky, McWhiney, McPunky, McPukey, McScummy, McSleazey, McSofty, McSquishy,
    McStroppy, McStrokey, McStumbly, McHissey, McPissey, etc., etc.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:38 pm

  927. #919

    Jeri,
    In a nutshell, seeing as you’re most comfortable there: Mac’s tax plan is not a Reaganesque crowd-tricking phrase meaning ‘welfare for all.’ You’re awfully smart and I think you know what I mean.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:40 pm

  928. Someone want to try to run with the Hussein middle name rather than talk about McCain’s Tax Cut Plan–I think we’re about at that level now.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:41 pm

  929. You’re so funny you might want to upgrade to Jerry Zinger.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:47 pm

  930. Still nothing positive about McCain’s Tax Cut Plan?

    Or any other positives about McCain as a competent leader?

    You know you’re not going to win a general election simply by droning Obama=Ayers.

    Folks who care neither about Ayers nor about McCain’s adultery want good reasons to vote for a condidate.

    So can you state any without attacking Obama at the same time?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 12:54 pm

  931. Are you nuts? Even by blog standards you’re like a dog chewing its leg off.

    You’re blinded by a transformational power you don’t understand. It’s also found on late-night TV, usually with an 800 number. Good luck with that.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:02 pm

  932. Asking for something positive about McCain is “nuts.”

    Would you allow me to quote you on that one sir.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:05 pm

  933. Jerry – I don’t understand why you are perseverating about adultery. Clearly that subject is a non issue for Democrats given the behavior of members of their party. Your concern over telling us about what old news to worry about, convicted felon father-in-law, addict wife, etc, is to be commended. We prefer to focus on new issues, things the media hasn’r covered, such as periods of time and relationships Obama has covered up or lied about. Ayers is a good example of that, wouldn’t you agree?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:07 pm

  934. We prefer to focus on new issues, things the media hasn’r covered, such as periods of time and relationships Obama has covered up or lied about. Ayers is a good example of that, wouldn’t you agree?

    On point and efficient.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:10 pm

  935. If you can’t give me anything positive about McCain, then PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact as many indepent voters as you can find and tell them you personally believe Obama is domestic terrorist who advocates killing American citizens to effect social change. They, and the rest of America desperately need your contribution to the election.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:14 pm

  936. Hey big shout out to daleyrocks!

    I take it from your comment that I wasn’t “lying” about McCain’s adultery, convicted felon father-in-law, addict wife, etc. after all.

    Thanks for “stepping across the aisle!”

    So are you also in agreement with your candidate–”I don’t care about a washed-up, unrepentant domestic terrorist”–and want to tell me all the positive things McCain will do if elected president?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:20 pm

  937. I’m going to try to clean this up a little.
    Springer! Way back there in comment #733, you said:

    Here’s what George W. Bush would be saying about John Sidney McCain’s character if he were running against him now:

    and you followed that up with 11 (!!) statements.
    We’re looking for you to pick one, any one, of those 11 (!!) statements and provide evidence that that statement is something that “George W. Bush would be saying about John Sidney McCain’s character if he were running against him now.”
    M-kay? A discrete task. Good luck.

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:23 pm

  938. Springer!
    Way back there in comment #838, you said:

    Look on the bright side—once you guys get your heads out of the sand and brush away the cobwebs you’ll find America is actually the greatest country in the world.

    Test question:
    1. With which of the two US 2008 Presidential general election tickets is the following claim most associated on the evidence of publicly available statements from the Presidential candidates, the Vice Presidential candidates, and their campaign staffs? “America is actually the greatest country in the world.”

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:32 pm

  939. Hey “M”

    (No relation to the Peter Lorre character in that movie I hope!)

    I don’t think you quite grasp the nature of hypothetical and conditional suppositions: you cannot provide “evidence” to either confirm nor deny that which does not exist.

    Let me put it to you another way: what is your evidence (your word) for the existence of God. (If you’ve got some could you please meet me at the Supreme Court ’cause I think they need to hear from you but quick!)

    Really, you should watch and listen to Sean Hannity more–he does this all the time.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:37 pm

  940. Aw, now I’ve gone and done it–here comes the Atheist slurs!

    But before you go too far I think you’ll find I’m denying evidence of His existence.

    The Deity is a matter of personal faith–not the courtroom.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:42 pm

  941. I’ve never posted on patterico’s pontifications before. I followed a link to this post from a friend’s blog.
    I read the post and all the responses yesterday. I read about two hundred more responses today.

    I consider myself independent and although not quite undecided, at least swayable. I really do want to learn more about Obama’s past, and about the truthfulness of the McCain campaign.

    But I have to say, three cheers for Jerry Springer. At first I thought he was just another of your recent flood of “mendoucheous asshats”, but he’s made a good point, one not to many people seem able to wrap their heads around. And he’s made it with style!

    Many of you assert that there’s something hidden or being “covered up” about Obama’s relationship with Ayers.

    The fact that the burden of proof remains upon you to substantiate those claims is more or less irrelevant. Your intention seems to be to get the claims out there because the accusation itself can be damaging, can generate fear and uncertainty.

    And whenever someone has tried to interject some rationality into the discussion, the overwhelming response has been personal attacks, combined with other diversion tactics.

    Well, although it seems the Obama campaign is too good (or too careful) to sling much mud, Springer did it.
    And now he’s playing your own game against you for points. And winning.

    No matter how many times you tell him that he must substantiate those claims, it won’t make any difference. He doesn’t have to. He didn’t even assert them as true. He only has to mention them, pass them as “alleged assertions.”

    See how riled up you’re getting?

    Now I’m going to start demanding to know what you’re hiding? Why won’t you deny his claims?

    What are you trying to cover up?

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:53 pm

  942. Hey Tim thanks for your patience in reading through all this (at times) really foul stuff.

    I’ll get back evidence since M raised the point.

    Let’s say this blog’s basic assertion is:

    Obama is domestic terrorist who advocates killing American citizens to effect social change.”

    Now dear M, what is your evidence to support this assertion?

    Take your time.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 1:58 pm

  943. Sock-puppet Alert on aisle 941!

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:10 pm

  944. “I take it from your comment that I wasn’t “lying” about McCain’s adultery, convicted felon father-in-law, addict wife, etc. after all.”

    Jerry – Don’t put words in my mouth. You first asserted Bush said these things. You provided no backup. Then you asserted the Bush campaign said them but provided no backup. On your first two sets of assertions, as far as I know you are still a liar.

    I don’t have any idea what version of your story you are claiming victory on now. You keep changing it, just like Obama.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:30 pm

  945. #939 Springer

    I don’t think

    Good summary.

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:31 pm

  946. Obama is domestic terrorist who advocates killing American citizens to effect social change.”

    These are your words. If you feel this way, go post it over at DU or Huffington. The dialogue here is about Barry’s resume and the MSM media’s bias. They love him and lie for him. So how can you possibly be mad?

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:36 pm

  947. Springer!
    You’re all about asking the questions. #569, 3 questions; #576, 1 question; #577, 1 question; #580, 1 question. And more and more and more, skipping hither and yon to fill up a corner of the intertubes with the merest variations on a two-year-old’s, “But what’s that?”
    Try one topic. State it, make your point, invite comments. This is a comment thread, not your mom.

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:40 pm

  948. The dialogue here is about Barry’s resume and the MSM media’s bias

    Great! I’m eager to get to that. We’re on post 947-ish, and I haven’t seen much regarding those topics yet.

    In fact, I’m tempted to ask you to substantiate your claim.

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:41 pm

  949. “No seriously, he wants to be President and has a good chance (how is that possible???).

    Comment by Pons Asinorum — 10/20/2008 @ 9:49 pm”
    ————————————————-
    Quite a reasonable question! The answer lies someplace in between the obamanut’s Kool Aid…the MSM’ vaulting obama to the top while simultaneously choosing to cover up, hide, and ignore his 30 plus year history of close association with virulent, anti-American, anti-white, Maoist and Marxist muslims and atheists, bent on the destruction of the foundational values that America was built on…and the astonishing lack of capacity for truth and independent thinking by the mass mobs who’ve drunk the Kool Aid.

    Seriously though, a common thread in all the obamanuts is they want the government to take care of them. The two major connective tissues between all obamanuts are (1) they want free or almost free, govt provided health care, (2) they want an “equal share” of the wealth of the nation.

    That’s as deep as their intellect is. The rest of their intellect is filled with having a cell phone or ipod stuck to their ear, an HDTV at home with 3 million channels, latte’s to go, and their favorite boob tube show.

    Sickening, isn’t it? That more than half our nation is filled with useless, deteriorating and rotting, lumps of human flesh who think they’re “Americans”.

    They haven’t got a clue.

    Comment by Molon Labe (bfec9e) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:45 pm

  950. “So are you also in agreement with your candidate–”I don’t care about a washed-up, unrepentant domestic terrorist”–and want to tell me all the positive things McCain will do if elected president?”

    Jerry – I haven’t heard McCain say what you have in quotes. I that another one of your asspulls or do you have a citation?

    Stop trying to switch subjects. The topic of this post and thread is not saying positive things about McCain.

    If you are unhappy about the topics discussed at this tiny smear blog, start your own blog or move elsewhere, unless someone is forcing you to be here.

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:50 pm

  951. #942 Springer

    Let’s say this blog’s basic assertion is:
    “Obama is domestic terrorist who advocates killing American citizens to effect social change.”

    Hey! Let’s say this blog entry’s topic is “Evidence of Obama-Ayers Tie Sent Down the Memory Hole . . . Almost!”

    Now dear M, what is your evidence to support this assertion?

    None.

    Let’s say you asserted in comment #733:

    Here’s what George W. Bush would be saying about John Sidney McCain’s character if he were running against him now:

    and you followed that up with 11 (!!) statements.

    What is your evidence to support this assertion? _________
    Also none, going by the “over 100″ Springer off-topic (off even the topic you off-topic introduced) comments on the thread.

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:52 pm

  952. Tim – You don’t really sound much like a swayable independent. Were your fingers crossed when you said that?

    Comment by daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:52 pm

  953. The two major connective tissues between all obamanuts are (1) they want free or almost free, govt provided health care, (2) they want an “equal share” of the wealth of the nation.

    That’s as deep as their intellect is. The rest of their intellect is filled with having a cell phone or ipod stuck to their ear, an HDTV at home with 3 million channels, latte’s to go, and their favorite boob tube show.

    So true. And so exasperating, scary, frustrating and audacious all at the same time. The Soros team has worked on this particular play for a long long time. Kruschev had the original outline, no?

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 2:54 pm

  954. #844 Patterico:

    Surely we can get to 1000 comments on this thread.

    Surely. Any minute, now. Then, closed? So that you can enshrine in Patterarchives select spittle samples from NYC_Chic and JerrySpringer–which might help future scientists in diagnosing trollishness, at least.

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:10 pm

  955. If we were to ignore them, they will lose interest, and finally go away.

    Comment by Another Drew (b4e6e5) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:12 pm

  956. Well, I admit, the more McCain and his supporters insult my intelligence, the less “swayably independent” I feel.

    The VERY NEXT post after my appeal to address the supposed topic of this blog, asserts this:

    “MSM’s vaulting obama to the top while simultaneously choosing to cover up, hide, and ignore his 30 plus year history of close association with virulent, anti-American, anti-white, Maoist and Marxist muslims and atheists, bent on the destruction of the foundational values that America was built on”

    A string of unsubstantiated and sensationalized claims, sporting exactly zero supporting fact, citation, or supporting evidence.

    And then, in essentially the same breath, launches into personal attack with: “astonishing lack of capacity for truth and independent thinking by the mass mobs who’ve drunk the Kool Aid.

    And (although I’m not an avowed Obama supporter) continues to not address the issues by stating an inflamatory and insulting personal opinion: “Seriously though, a common thread in all the obamanuts is they want the government to take care of them. The two major connective tissues between all obamanuts are (1) they want free or almost free, govt provided health care, (2) they want an “equal share” of the wealth of the nation.

    While I may be exempt, not being an “obamanaut”, I find the insinuation rather insulting.

    I’m educated. I work full time for a business that had 25 employees when I started three years ago, and has grown to over 80 today. I don’t want free or nearly-free health care. I work for mine, and having it as a substantial benefit is one of the reasons I work for this company. I don’t want an “equal share” of anyone’s wealth. I’m paid fairly for what I do, and I think everyone should be.
    That’s not to say I don’t think some people are overpaid.

    But my point is, why all the insults, and absolutely zero discussion of the actual issues? Since you’ve claimed that “Dialogue about Barry’s resume and MSM media’s bias is the topic here, let’s have some discussion of it, shall we?

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:20 pm

  957. NEWSFLASH,

    Rudy Guiliani says

    BARACK OBAMA OPPOSES MANDATORY PRISON SENTENCES FOR SEX OFFENDERS, DRUG DEALERS AND MURDERERS.”

    Now here’s a truly INSPIRED smear!

    Now dear Rudy, where’s your evidence on this one????

    But wait, you don’t have to provide evidence BECAUSE you left out that wonderful word CONVICTED to your list of criminals.

    This again is the good old fashioned hypothetical and conditional statement.

    Dear Rudy I don’t think you’ll be able to get any Judge in America to support this claim–at least not legally anyway.

    You guys are getting really desperate here.

    Isn’t there anyone who will say something positive about John McCain?????? I’m almost beginning to feel sorry for the guy.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:26 pm

  958. So that unsubstantiated claim bothers you, but the 11 made by JerrySpringer are fodder for praise for bringing about needed discourse? Moby.

    Barry does not have a resume that would allow him to interview to be the head of your company, Tim.

    Should you take the time to read here, you would easily find our discussions on the MSM, and their being completely in-the-bag for Baracky.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:31 pm

  959. Jerry – If you haven’t noticed, we are still waiting for you to either support your assertion that President Bush made those claims about Sen. McCain. Another even gave you some wiggle room and expanded that to the Bush campaign. You made up smears and lies so you could type them. It probably gave you a little tingle up your leg.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:37 pm

  960. You know, what with all the Republican defections to the Obama camp of late there will be plenty of jobs available for you guys at National Review and other conservative publications which have been forced to fire these traitors.

    I’ll be happy to put in a good word for you with them if you like–though I’m afraid you’ll have to get rid of the profanity, bestiality, mysogynism, bigotry, racism, etc.

    Might not be that much fun for you after all then though.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:38 pm

  961. Rudy Guiliani says

    “BARACK OBAMA OPPOSES MANDATORY PRISON SENTENCES FOR SEX OFFENDERS, DRUG DEALERS AND MURDERERS.”

    Does he support mandatory minimum sentencing, or not?

    Please provide evidence that Rudy said what you claimed.

    Given your track record on this thread, your word will not suffice.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:38 pm

  962. Give us one example of bigotry or racism. Just one. Or admit that you are a fucking liar.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:46 pm

  963. #957 Springer

    Rudy Guiliani says
    “BARACK OBAMA OPPOSES MANDATORY PRISON SENTENCES FOR SEX OFFENDERS, DRUG DEALERS AND MURDERERS.”

    Link?

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:49 pm

  964. Hey guys here you go,

    straight from the horse’s as….excuse me, mouth:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxhftwPMjCk

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:51 pm

  965. Go ahead, call me a liar again–I love proving you guys wrong.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:52 pm

  966. I mean you believe Rudy, he says “I read Obama’s words myself.”

    Doesn’t happen to mention where he read them, but that’s a minor matter.

    And again, if pressed he’s got deniability because he left out that word convicted.

    So don’t worry guys, legally he’s covered.

    How else he’s covered, with what and how it stinks I’ll leave to your vivid imaginations!

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:56 pm

  967. Time for more boneheaded use of the “F” word from you all???

    Or does the sheer audacity of Rudy’s smear take your breath away?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 3:59 pm

  968. And obviously the citizen who posted Rudy’s robocall on youtube must be in the employ of the elitist left-wing media.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:00 pm

  969. Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is really a breakthrough for you. Now, show us how Barack Obama is in favor of mandatory minimum sentencing for the above referenced crimes.

    You are a liar. You still have 11 smears that you have yet to substantiate, and you have can, because you cannot.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:01 pm

  970. and you have not, because you cannot.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:01 pm

  971. This is pretty simple stuff, Jerry. If Baracky is in favor of mandatory minimum sentencing for the above referenced crimes, it should be incredibly easy for you to demonstrate that.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:03 pm

  972. Still no takers on explaining that Great John Sidney McCain Tax Cut Plan??????

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:03 pm

  973. You know, how McCain is going to deal with something which is affecting all of us RIGHT NOW??????

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:05 pm

  974. #957/964 Springer

    “BARACK OBAMA OPPOSES MANDATORY PRISON SENTENCES FOR SEX OFFENDERS, DRUG DEALERS AND MURDERERS.”

    Good link love in #957!
    Which leads to these Washington Times statements:

    In an October 2003 NAACP debate, Mr. Obama said he would “vote to abolish” mandatory minimum sentences. “The mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges,” he said.

    Mr. Obama now says on his Web site, http://www.barackobama.com, that he would “immediately review sentences to see where we can be smarter on crime and reduce the ineffective warehousing of nonviolent drug offenders.”

    Link! Rudy agrees with the Washington Times about the content of Obama’s several publicized aims in respect to mandatory minimum sentences.
    What do you think?

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:11 pm

  975. Here is Baracky’s own words on mandatory minimum sentencing … Hint, he would abolish them.

    Baracky’s own words

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:11 pm

  976. Raising taxes during an economic slowdown is a great idea. Taking from the actual taxpayers, and creating more and more people that do not actually pay taxes is another great idea.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:13 pm

  977. Liar.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:13 pm

  978. Hey JD

    Still “harping on” the “11 smears that you have yet to substantiate, and you have can, because you cannot.” (Though you’ll have to explain the tortured grammar of “and you have can”–is that a Palinism?)

    My 11 smears were hypothetical and conditional constructions–just like the fertilizer you’ve been spreading.

    To quote from Smear 101:

    Hypotheticals and conditionals by definition cannot be substantiated.

    My affirmations on the other hand are a matter of public record:

    John McCain committed adultery with the daughter of a convicted felon, abandoning his wife and three children. His wife was subsequently given a job in the White House by President Reagan and his wife Nancy because they were so appalled at his behavior.

    John McCain crashed several Navy planes paid for by taxpayer dollars.

    John McCain’s current wife Cindy had a drug problem.

    I’ll even give you a new one to get all hot and bothered about:

    John McCain voted against making Martin Luther King Day a national holiday.

    Now would you like to state that any of these assertions are FALSE?

    Go ahead, I dare you.

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:15 pm

  979. Sigh…

    The claims by Springer aren’t my issue. I don’t believe all of them, you won’t refute any of them, he can’t substantiate most of them. But the claims aren’t the point. He raised the claims to demonstrate (by baiting you unfairly, I admit) exactly the type of activity I’ve witnessed the patrons here undertaking.

    That is, making baseless claims, personally attacking those who attempt any discussion of the claims, and then insisting that they must be hiding something because they’re not answering the claims.

    You yourself kept repeating (and for this, Springer got extra points) “Your assertions, your burden of proof.

    Well, that rule should work both ways.

    I didn’t praise his claims. I praised his point.


    Incidentally, JD: I just read through every post you’ve made in this thread, searching for an exaggerated, sensationalized claim to pin on you yourself.

    Turn out that, when you take the deluge of yahoo idiots from both camps into account, you’ve been a downright decent person. Thanks.

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:16 pm

  980. Time for more “F” words from you Compassionate Conservatives?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:17 pm

  981. #957/964 Springer
    Oops, you didn’t give link love until #964. Try to put your claim and your evidence in the same post next time, o.k.? Seven posts later, though; that’s the best you’ve done yet!

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:24 pm

  982. Comment by Tim @ 3:20 pm

    A string of unsubstantiated and sensationalized claims, sporting exactly zero supporting fact, citation, or supporting evidence.

    Tim. The stories have been plastered on blogs and Internet news sites for weeks now, if not months.

    If you’re asking somewhere around post #900 for proof, you just aren’t following this election. The Internet is teeming with the sources, dates, photos and hard examples you request. Start at Patterico’s sidebar and go from there. The active political blogs will give you the flip side to what you’re not hearing from print or broadcast media.

    I suspect you’re not an Independent but wish you luck at the polls regardless.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:26 pm

  983. Sorry JD, going to have to call you on that “raising taxes” distortion earlier as well.
    Obama proposed increase will raise tax from 35 to 39% of income above $250,000. Which means 95% of working Americans will get a tax cut. Those on welfare don’t work so they don’t get a tax cut under Obama.

    Now should I call you a “liar” on this one, or just point out that you seem a little confused here?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:26 pm

  984. #975 JD
    Great clip. I love the “ding-g-g!” at the end of Obama’s statement.
    McCain ad material!

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:27 pm

  985. Tell me JD, is the Obama Tax Cut Plan really going to seriously impinge on your Mansion and Yacht?

    Won’t you still be able to go hunting after that wascally wabbit?

    Comment by JerrySpringer (64f963) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:29 pm

  986. No, don’t call JD a liar. Save that for yourself. Obama plans to ‘spread the wealth around’ by turning over tax refunds (welfare) to people not currently contributing money into the tax system. That’s about 40% of all workers who will be reimbursed for, well… nothing from their own pocket.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:32 pm

  987. Still “harping on” the “11 smears that you have yet to substantiate, and you have can, because you cannot.” (Though you’ll have to explain the tortured grammar of “and you have can”–is that a Palinism?)

    Yup, I am still harping on them because President Bush, nor his campaign ever said them.

    I fixed my typo a long time before you snarkily pointed it out.

    Sorry JD, going to have to call you on that “raising taxes” distortion earlier as well.

    You can call me on it all you want. He vows to roll back the Bush tax cuts, which do not effect only those over $250,000. He also vows to take from the actual taxpayers, and increase the number of people who pay no taxes with a series of refundable tax credits.

    Whether or not if effects me makes no nevermind. I am opposed to it based on principles.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:37 pm

  988. Let’s compare JerrySpringer’s analysis:

    Obama proposed increase will raise tax from 35 to 39% of income above $250,000. Which means 95% of working Americans will get a tax cut. Those on welfare don’t work so they don’t get a tax cut under Obama.

    with Investors Business Daily:

    With federal income taxes, Obama additionally says that “95% of working families will get a cut.” That, in fact, is not possible because over a third of these households don’t pay federal income taxes.

    FWIW I suspect Obama plans to give them other people’s money, which in his mind is the same as a tax cut.

    Comment by DRJ (c953ab) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:38 pm

  989. Now, just admit that you made those inflammatory smears up, and attributed them to President Bush and his campaign, and I will be happy to discuss the rest with you.

    Tim – If you assert something, who has the burden of proof?

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:38 pm

  990. DRJ – In Baracky’s world, you can divide zero. He can also make the oceans stop rising.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:39 pm

  991. Well, here we have a couple:
    Barry does not have a resume that would allow him to interview to be the head of your company, Tim.

    I’d like to know upon what facts this assertion is based. And sure, I’ll concede that my company would demand a pretty good resume, I’m not going to take that as wiggle room.

    Let’s discuss! That’s what this is, right, a forum for discussion of Barry’s resume? I assume you don’t have a link to his resume. I certainly don’t. What are some of the things he’d likely put on a resume?

    Graduate of Columbia University

    Graduate of Harvard Law School (magna cum laude)

    Editor and later President of Harvard Law Review

    Professional Civil Rights Attorney and Constitutional Law practitioner (two law firms, Sidley & Austin and Hopkins & Sutter)

    Teacher (technically, Senior Lecturer) of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School

    Three term Illinois State Senator

    Married to Michelle Obama for 16 years

    Founding member of the board of directors of Public Allies

    Board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago
    Board of directors of The Joyce Foundation
    Board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
    Board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law
    Board of directors of the Center for Neighborhood Technology
    Board of directors of the Lugenia Burns Hope Center

    Well, you’re right about one thing.. he don’t know jack about plasma assisted chemical vapor deposition of micro-crystalline semi-amorphous silicon for use in monotonically-integrated photovoltaic applications. Which is what the company I work for does.

    But what’s wrong with someone with that resume applying for the job of President?

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:43 pm

  992. Transcript of #975, Baracky’s own words:

    Q: Mr. Barack Obama. Would you vote to abolish mandatory minimum jail sentences?

    A: I would vote to abolish mandatory minimum, uh, sentences. One of the things that I’ve done in the state senate, uh, has been to try to reform the capital justice system: passing video taping of interrogations and confessions in, in capital cases. Trying to make sure that our criminal justice system uh, is, in fact, just. Eh, uh, passing racial profiling legislation, to ensure that our traffic laws uh, are, uh, provided, uh, are nondiscriminatory. And we need to do the same thing at the federal level. The mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges.

    Ding-g-g-g!

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:43 pm

  993. The Mobys have been ubiquitous of late. How many are using different computers and sock puppets a la that lib retard blogger to talk to themselves? You’d think their parents would get tired of supporting their lazy asses.

    Shame that Eminem never bothered to stomp on the original Moby mutant wuss.

    What will they do if and when obamalamadingdong wins? New brownshirt civilian enforcement corps perhaps? ACORN acolytes? Welfare spongers? Or combo of all three?

    Comment by madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:46 pm

  994. Thanks madmax. Your comments are a valuable contribution to our constructive discussion. Please continue to hold.

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:51 pm

  995. #991 Tim/Springer sock puppet

    Barry does not have a resume that would allow him to interview to be the head of your company, Tim.

    Well, you’re right about one thing.. he don’t know jack about plasma assisted chemical vapor deposition of micro-crystalline semi-amorphous silicon for use in monotonically-integrated photovoltaic applications. Which is what the company I work for does.

    Point! To JD!

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:51 pm

  996. I’d like to know upon what facts this assertion is based. And sure, I’ll concede that my company would demand a pretty good resume, I’m not going to take that as wiggle room.

    I used that as a generalization. Outside of running for political office, his resume is paper thin. I could be wrong, but most companies in the private sector would like someone with some type of executive experience to run a company. They would generally also like just a touch of industry specific experience. Given your industry, I susepct that the CEO would require more than a touch of industry specific experience.

    We would love to know what civil rights law cases he tried, and what Constitutional issues he argued to the Court.

    At least you got the lecturer part kind of right. He was a part-time lecturer.

    Board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago
    Board of directors of The Joyce Foundation
    Board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
    Board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law
    Board of directors of the Center for Neighborhood Technology
    Board of directors of the Lugenia Burns Hope Center

    If these were so relevant, don’t you think that Sen. Obama would be eager to discuss them? I would love to hear him discuss who brought him in to the CAC. I would love to hear how he and Mr. Ayers decided to fund programs. I would love to hear how his current 2nd Amendment positions compare to the groups he funded while at the Joyce Foundation. I would love to see a comprehensive listing of what he chose to fund, at his various Boards.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:51 pm

  997. But that would probably be racist.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:53 pm

  998. . . .

    Comment by m (4afcc2) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:58 pm

  999. Sure JD. I’d kinda like to see that information as well. Maybe we can turn some of it up. It certainly can’t be less constructive than what we’ve all (collectively and as a generalization) been doing.

    While we’re at it, let’s find the same sort of info about McCain.

    I’m genuinely not baiting there. If we’re going to examine Obama’s trial experience as a lawer and his boardroom discussions as a director of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, we should apply the same scrutiny to McCain’s dealings in… whatever qualifications turn up in his resume.

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:59 pm

  1000. Incidentally, Obama and the 2nd is one area I couldn’t agree with you more.

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/23/2008 @ 4:59 pm

  1001. I think his military record has long since been released. Should you have any questions, the smears that Springer was trafficking in have been addressed at many places. I will not justify them with a response of my own.

    His Senate career is a matter of public record.

    Do you think that 11 days out from an election is a good time to start digging into those questions? Why do you think that the media has not done so to date?

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:04 pm

  1002. JD nailed it. We want it- we want to hear it. And if it’s brought out into the open, it will not make Obama look good. In fact, it will support much of the criticism you see from voters who refuse to give him a free pass for the sleight-of-hand Mr. Kool act.

    Board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago
    Board of directors of The Joyce Foundation
    Board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
    Board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law
    Board of directors of the Center for Neighborhood Technology
    Board of directors of the Lugenia Burns Hope Center

    If these were so relevant, don’t you think that Sen. Obama would be eager to discuss them? I would love to hear him discuss who brought him in to the CAC. I would love to hear how he and Mr. Ayers decided to fund programs. I would love to hear how his current 2nd Amendment positions compare to the groups he funded while at the Joyce Foundation. I would love to see a comprehensive listing of what he chose to fund, at his various Boards.

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:07 pm

  1003. Obama’s various permutations of positions on the 2nd Amendment are indicative of how little scrutiny Baracky has had from the media. Soros is out funding groups like ASHA to say that Baracky supports the 2nd Amendment, when his own voting record, and event recent statements around the Heller decision either show him to not support gun owners rights, or have a fundamental lack of understanding as to what a Right is, which should be kind of concerning, given his claims to be a Constitutional law scholar.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:08 pm

  1004. I’m not ducking out, but I am done for the day.

    I’m glad we’ve established some civil exchange of ideas and information here, if only temporarily. G’night.

    Comment by Tim (8f4265) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:12 pm

  1005. Tim – You mentioned the discussion of the bias of the MSM. Given the scrutiny given McCain’s wife, and Palin’s husband and children, that if McCain had a section of his resume like …

    Board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago
    Board of directors of The Joyce Foundation
    Board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
    Board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law
    Board of directors of the Center for Neighborhood Technology
    Board of directors of the Lugenia Burns Hope Center

    that one should reasonably expect the media to do their damm job and report on same? We know what kind of underwear the Republican VP candidate is wearing, and do not know anything about a signficant portion of Baracky’s resume. The Dems did not vet him, the media has not done so, and all it takes is to look and see how Stanley Kurtz was treated to see how anyone else would fare should they try to discover same.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:12 pm

  1006. I see that Jerry Springer ran away again. Every time it is asked to support a position, it flees.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:13 pm

  1007. Good night, Tim.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:13 pm

  1008. JerrySpringer – Thanks for proving the extent of your douchebaggery.

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 5:47 pm

  1009. 1009 !!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by JD (6248dc) — 10/23/2008 @ 6:06 pm

  1010. Dear Tim:

    You say (991): “Let’s discuss! That’s what this is, right, a forum for discussion of Barry’s resume? I assume you don’t have a link to his resume. I certainly don’t. What are some of the things he’d likely put on a resume…?
    Editor and later President of Harvard Law Review”

    Since every person in this most prestigious position has published articles in the Harvard Law Review, I was most interested in reading some of Senator Obama’s legal scholarship.

    However, I was unable to find any of his work in the Review.

    Quite probably I missed it due to my sloppy research, because the Review has been around since 1887 and EVERY president has published something—often with distinction.

    I was wondering if you would be so kind and point me to some of Senator Obama’s published work for the Review.

    Much appreciated—

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (4bc8d7) — 10/28/2008 @ 11:56 pm

  1011. Dear Tim:

    Ditto his Senior Thesis from Columbia University if you would be so kind.

    Thanks—

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (4bc8d7) — 10/28/2008 @ 11:57 pm

  1012. Sure, Pons. I’m actually searching right now to see if I can find what you’re after. I’d be interested to read it too.

    In the interim, could you search up for me the minutes of any of the meetings of the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom, upon which John McCain served from 1981 until at least ’84 and possibly ’86?

    There are some questions McCain isn’t answering, and it’s making me wonder whether I could trust someone associated with “ultra-rightwing death squads” to hold the office of President. In fact, there are some vast holes in his background and history that he hasn’t given us “full disclosure” about.

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/29/2008 @ 3:59 pm

  1013. Dear Tim:

    In the context of Senator Obama’s resume, I am not certain how Senator McCain’s meetings entered into this line of thought, but will address it in a subsequent post as you wish. Using Senator Obama’s presumed resume which you were kind enough to construct, there are only three areas of achievement plus one that I added: Academic, Lawyer, Political and Authorship

    In the academic arena, he has done quite well (his missing thesis and articles notwithstanding).

    As a lawyer, Senator Obama did not distinguish himself in any significant way. If this was a position in a law firm, it is doubtful he would be offered a partnership immediately.

    His political involvements (both as an activist and as a professional), were insignificant in the national stage (and I would add scary). These have been taken to task by other writers in this blog.

    As an author, Senator Obama plagiarized some of his work.

    Although everyone makes errors and misjudgments, these are typically balanced with notable achievements or accomplishments. In my humble opinion, this resume is lacking the critical skill-sets or experience that would normally be expected for an executive position (much less President of the US). Certainly, a management or possibly director position would be more appropriate.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (4bc8d7) — 10/29/2008 @ 5:18 pm

  1014. Dear Tim:

    I have examined the worst allegations against Senator McCain (including your request). Once again, I have learned he is made of clay, makes mistakes and then learns from them.

    Although I was unable to find the minutes to the meetings you requested, it appears the U.S. Council for World Freedom was a private organization that supported rebel operations in Nicaragua as well as links to death-squads in Central America. These operations were directed against dictatorships with sympathetic and military ties to the Soviet Union. To maintain their power, these dictators brutalized their own people and forced socialist economic principles upon them (further exasperating their suffering and misery).

    This council was founded by a retired US Army general officer named Singlaub who apparently decided to use similar tactics against the dictatorships.

    McCain was an advisory board member who resigned when he learned of the (at the time) allegations of violent activities of the Council. McCain is quoted as saying “I didn’t know whether (the group’s activity) was legal or illegal, but I didn’t think I wanted to be associated with them”.

    (Funny how it did not take him TWENTY years to figure that out).

    To me this demonstrates, once again, Senator McCain is human and makes mistakes. He admits them and learns from them.

    Most importantly he does not hide them.

    Any luck finding the senior thesis and/or Harvard Law Review publications of Senator Obama (when he was president of that organization)?

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (4bc8d7) — 10/30/2008 @ 11:40 am

  1015. Pons,

    No sir, I have been unable to find Obama’s senior thesis, nor have I found any creditable source claiming to know its content or topic.

    I also haven’t found the actual text of the only article (published without crediting the author, as apparently many are, but recently confirmed by the Obama campaign to have been authored by Obama) that he had published in the HLR.

    Although I did find an illuminating article at:
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12705_Page2.html
    dealing with the topic. As well as some personal opinion regarding it here:
    http://economicsofcontempt.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-on-obamas-law-review-article.html

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 10/30/2008 @ 2:22 pm

  1016. Thanks Tim.

    Hope you are right about Senator Obama and I am wrong, as it looks like he will be the next President. I hope he is the greatest President ever, as the next four years for our Country look to be tough.

    Good luck to you—

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (4bc8d7) — 10/31/2008 @ 10:42 am

  1017. juste un prtit commentaire pour savoi où je pourrais rencontrer l’auter de ce blog;)

    Comment by Barack Obama (3ebd26) — 10/31/2008 @ 11:53 am

  1018. daleyrocks -

    ““I would like a list of the “ethnicities” that are allowed in the white house.”

    joey – Front door or back door?”

    you guys are fucking racists.

    Comment by norepublicans (a88517) — 11/1/2008 @ 1:00 pm

  1019. norepublicans – I pointed that out literally months ago. But, thanks for your help.

    Comment by JD (5b4781) — 11/1/2008 @ 1:10 pm

  1020. I read this quote:

    “Conservatives can lead again when their base fills these pages with comments that aren’t quite so, ah, “priceless.” Until then, conservatives will remain a fringe power.

    Over at http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/11/04/youdecide_11042/comment-page-89/#comments

    in the 89th page of small-minded, bigoted, and false-fear-motivated comments.

    And for a second, I thought it was you, JD. Sounds pretty rational, when compared to the other comments.

    Then I realized I’m slightly dyslexic, and it was posted by someone named DJ. Oh well, thought I’d mention it anyway.

    And take this opportunity to say, I hope everyone can get behind our new President, and give him a chance. He’s going to have one hell of a difficult time of it.

    I’ve never claimed the man is a saint, but I don’t think he’s as fear-inspiring as he’s been made out to be, either. I’m hoping we’ll all be pleasantly surprised.

    Here’s to hope. *drinks*

    Comment by Tim (73e962) — 11/5/2008 @ 4:04 pm

  1021. This obsession with establishing this link between Ayers and Obama is absurd. I wonder what implication you’d like to be drawn. Is it that a cadre of marxist conspirators came together and developed a plan to have one of their own get to the White House? Or is it simply that these extremists were Obama’s political consultants? Either way it’s utter hogwash, and the Ayer’s link is non-news.

    Ayers has admitted that he was asked on a number of occasions to host a coffee at his house for various political candidates. Obama was one of them. So: a smoking gun: Obama was in Ayers’ house! But he was there to meet and greet, not to devise sinister plots. The relevance of Obama’s presence at Chez Ayers is even less relevant than Bush’s military record.

    In the end, the only thing that matters is what a president does, not what his indiscretions were, and certainly not who all his passing acquaintances were. Deal with his policies, and stop wasting your time on nonsense.

    Comment by fred (5beede) — 11/16/2008 @ 4:48 pm

  1022. fred, your comment is rather silly given that your claim was long ago debunked as the dishonest spin of Obama.

    Especially now that after the election, Ayers himself has refuted your nonsense in public.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 11/16/2008 @ 4:50 pm

  1023. spqr – You think it’s silly to say that what a president DOES is more important than his acquaintances?!? Why?

    You’re going to have to point me to some comments of Ayers that is inconsistent with my comments. His ABC interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu-x4yg_TIg) was the source of my comment about his having a coffee. Here are direct quotes:

    “I knew him as well as thousands of other Chicagoans. I was asked by a state senator to have a coffee for Barack Obama when he first ran for office…and we had him in our home, and I think he was in probably 20 homes that day…”

    “…we knew each other in a professional way in the same way as thousands of other people…”

    “….I didn’t get to know him before I did that [coffee] but I did know him in the context of being on a board together”

    ======================================
    And also please point me at the specific “debunking” of which you refer. Facts, please, not just repeating the same unsubstantiated allegations.

    Comment by Fred (5beede) — 11/17/2008 @ 8:44 pm

  1024. Fred, first of all, Obama’s acquaintances are important because he has done nothing.

    Secondly, Ayers’ connections to Obama have already been shown to be far more extensive than your claims. Ayers connection to Obama predates the “coffee” as Ayers’ wife Bernadine Dohrn, Michelle Obama and Barack Obama worked at Sidley Austin together long before. Ayers himself states that Obama was a “family friend” in a book afterword published since the election. No surprise since Ayers recruited Obama to the CAC and Obama blurbs Ayers’ book. Given that Ayers recruited Obama, that little line about not getting to know him before the coffee looks like the brazen lie that it is.

    Interestingly, Obama’s first job was with a company tied to the SDS.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 11/17/2008 @ 9:01 pm

  1025. But what is more interesting Fred, is that you are ignoring the evidence in the original post above that Ayers’ comments are false.

    Why are you trying to reargue something you have already lost?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 11/17/2008 @ 9:07 pm

  1026. Thanks for the link. I’m not ignoring the “evidence” of the original post (unless I’m overlooking which one is the original: the one at the top of the page?) It appears your key point is that Obama’s political career was “launched” in the living room of Ayers. If you consider the meet-and-greet at Ayer’s home to be a “political launching” it is so only as a technicality. It would be highly relevant if it were a meeting to discuss policy strategy. It is irrelevant if it was simply an event to drum up supporters – because that is what politics is all about.

    The other issue I saw in the post linked to at the top was that Ayers may have recommended Obama for a post. The implication, as stated at the link, was that Ayers and Obama shared a common world view about education. My response: yawn. So what?

    Despite his protestations to the contrary, Ayers commited acts of terrorism. The facts speak for themselves. For some technicality or other, he was not prosecuted. Subsequently, Ayers got a PhD in education and began working within the system to make (what he and many others view to be) positive change. The fact that Obama and he shared SOME viewpoints in common about education, at one time, is irrelevant. Even if we were to then examine Ayers’ specific views about education, they would not absolutely equate to Obama’s current or past views. At BEST they might give a hint at what to expect – but in the end, this is far from a sinister issue that should be a cause for alarm.

    Yes, Obama hasn’t done anything yet – that is, except for talking about policy. I wholeheartedly believe that his actual words and promises will be a better forecaster of what he’ll try to do than the hints one might get from analyzing Ayers. So again, the “relationship” – even if they were gay lovers, is irrelevant.

    BTW, I voted for McCain – although I had been torn. I didn’t really like the absurd over-the-top promises either candidate made. But Obama won, the campaign is over. It’s time to move on.

    My impression is that you’re overly concerned about trivia.

    Comment by Fred (5beede) — 11/18/2008 @ 8:19 am

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