Patterico's Pontifications

10/9/2008

McCain’s Ayers Ad

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:14 am



Via Hot Air we see that the McCain camp has a new ad about Obama and Ayers:

Barack Obama and domestic terrorist Bill Ayers. Friends. They’ve worked together for years. But Obama tries to hide it. Why?

Obama launched his political career in Ayers’ living room. Ayers and Obama ran a radical “education” foundation, together. They wrote the foundation’s by-laws, together. Obama was the foundation’s first chairman. Reports say they, “distributed more than $100 million to ideological allies with no discernible improvement in education.”

When their relationship became an issue, Obama just responded, “This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood.” That’s it?

We know Bill Ayers ran the “violent left wing activist group” called Weather Underground. We know Ayers’ wife was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted list. We know they bombed the Capitol. The Pentagon. A judge’s home. We know Ayers said, “I don’t regret setting bombs. …. I feel we didn’t do enough.”

But Obama’s friendship with terrorist Ayers isn’t the issue. The issue is Barack Obama’s judgment and candor. When Obama just says, “This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” Americans say, “Where’s the truth, Barack?”

Barack Obama. Too risky for America.

Meh. This is OK, but it could be better.

The media is buying the line that this is all about exploiting the past of a man Obama barely knows, who did bad things when Obama was in third grade. As the media goes, so goes the public.

So McCain needs to start citing facts approved by Our Gatekeepers in Big Media, when available. Like:

According to CNN, quote, “the relationship between Obama and Ayers went much deeper, ran much longer, and was much more political than Obama said.”

And if McCain is not going to bring up this stuff in the debates, it fosters the notion that his campaign thinks this is important, but he doesn’t.

The economy is the foremost issue in people’s minds, but if McCain shows he personally cares about the Ayers issue, is careful to stick to facts nobody can dispute — and can make a connection not only to Obama’s judgment, but to the sort of agenda pursued by the crowd of radicals with whom he traveled in Chicago — then it’s worth pursuing.

329 Responses to “McCain’s Ayers Ad”

  1. Spot – on regarding McCain”s refusal (so far) to take this issue directly to Obama – he has no other choice, the media filters are too pronounced to make it a story on their own initiative.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  2. I was skeptical of Jack Cashill’s recently publicized notion that Ayers might have had a hand in ghostwriting of O’s “Dreams”
    memoir. But I’ve changed my mind after looking a little harder.

    Pinning that on Ayers would be proof enough of O’s bagmanchurian destiny shaped by an unrepentent terrorist agitator for communist subversion of the US government.

    I guess that’s why no one in the MSM has dared ask O about it.

    SarahW (a6e80b)

  3. Fortunately, Obama is actually addressing this head-on now, harshly condemning what Ayers did in the 60s. Interview is on TV tonight.

    And for all the “he’s a terrorist” rhetoric of the Republicans, as far as I can tell Ayers was a radical protester who had some pretty serious stuff to be mad about.

    This whole idea of conflating current Islamic terrorism with 60’s radicalism is a bit nuts — back in the 60s, mainstream America was something similar to what radical Islamic countries are now. Blacks were still excluded from restaurants even in Michigan (Ayers got his start protesting that), and U.S. soldiers were killing and raping women and children in Vietnam.

    Not a pretty time, and a lot of people McCain hung out with were defending that status quo. I’m scared McCain will take us back to that era. Like Bush, he’s got that pro-war mentality that I’ve always argued fits nicely with Islamic radicals. They mutually affirm to each other how evil the other is, so they can keep killing each other.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  4. McCain needs to shift, and fast, to putting in details about Ayers views on education (he thinks that the education system SHOULD indoctrinate young people into the “right” way of thinking, the approved sort of political world-view.

    Why? Because it is on education issues that Obama actually worked with Ayers. He worked to further Ayers’s views of education. Obama needs to be read some of the inflammatory education-related passages (and they can be recent, Ayers isn’t shy about his views) and ask if he agrees with them. When he says no, ask why he worked with Ayers on education reform. No “ancient history” there, no “I was 8 when he said that.”

    PatHMV (653160)

  5. #3
    Yes Phil. I have pointed out in another thread that it is a little misleading to call Ayers a terrorist. My point was how can you call him a terrorist and not water down the true meaning of the word. A terrorist is characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon). Ayers was more of a radical who felt the best way to protest against perceived injustice was to bomb buildings. Was it smart? Not by any standard. But does that classify him as a terrorist, in the order of OBL? No. Calling him a terrorist is a little misleading. If he is really a terrorist, why is he walking around freely? Why is he even allowed to teach in any school? That’s double standard in my book.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  6. If he is really a terrorist, why is he walking around freely? Why is he even allowed to teach in any school?

    The same reason OJ was allowed to play golf after brutally killing his ex-wife. Ayer’s guilt was proven by an improperly obtained wiretap. Ayers would be sitting in jail right now if it wasn’t for that prosecutorial miscounduct.

    The McCain camp definetely needs to address why this person is still walking around free. I think a lot of voters are thinking what you’re thinking.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  7. Ayers is walking around freely because his case was thrown out on a technicality–law-enforcement had done some illegal wiretapping on him.

    Official Internet Data Office (b87509)

  8. For Republican purposes at this point, a terrorist is pretty much anyone whose first response to any issue is something other than “We can easily solve this problem with more soldiers and police.”

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  9. 3 & 8, Phil, There aren’t polite words for what you are. You aren’t honest or truthful. Ayers is a Terrorist, and proud of it. On 9/11/2001, there is a picture of Ayers trampling a US Flag in the NY Times saying he didn’t do enough. I take it he didn’t kill anyone like his compadres did.

    If you think this is the type of person who is a mentor, collaborator, and consultant to Obama, is a plus for Obama, may you and Ayers be blown up by the same bomb like the ones Ayers planted.

    PCD (7fe637)

  10. #

    For Republican purposes at this point, a terrorist is pretty much anyone whose first response to any issue is something other than “We can easily solve this problem with more soldiers and police.”

    Comment by Phil — 10/9/2008 @ 8:15 am

    For Democrat purposes at this point, a terrorist is Santa.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  11. Phil never strays far from the kill, jail, torture and oppress meme.

    JD (f7900a)

  12. Good, go after the Ayres angle. But if that is al you’ve got, you don’t stand a chance.

    McCain needs to go after earmark abuse. It is an economic issue, it fits well with his and Palin’s strengths, he can rake Obama and the unpopular Dem congress over it, he can make specific proposals for reform, and it can be adopted by the other Republicans running in tight races a la Contract with America.

    He needs to put forth something of substance quickly that goes beyond past associations (troubling as they are).

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  13. “This whole idea of conflating current Islamic terrorism with 60’s radicalism is a bit nuts”

    Phil – Absolutely. Why does the left keep trying to do it?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  14. Is Bill Ayers a terrorist? Please answer the question. Anyone?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  15. If you bomb the Pentagon and the US Capital…you just might be a terrorist. If you

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  16. Of course Ayers is a terrorist – he was one of the ringleaders in a group called The Weathermen, who planned a series of bombings on gov’t buildings in order to terrorize and impose their will on a democratic society. If you need more of a primer on what the definition entails, more education is apparently in order.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  17. call for the violent overthrow of the US government so that you can install a new Communist government…you just might be a terrorist.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  18. #

    Is Bill Ayers a terrorist? Please answer the question. Anyone?

    Comment by love2008 — 10/9/2008 @ 8:36 am

    Yes.

    OK, what’s the next question?

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  19. If you ask children to brutally their capitalist pig parents…you just might be Bill Ayers.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  20. errrr…edit: brutally murder

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  21. Another sign of panic on the Trollbots – frenzied postings that never actually deal with the issue at hand, but instead use misdirection and strawmen in order to overlook the fundamental problem with The Messiah’s curious past.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  22. Yes. Bill Ayers is a terrorist. When someone uses violence against innocent bystanders (and a nine-year old John Murtagh is as innocent as they come), and that person is a PERSON, not a government (please don’t use the tired old canard about collateral damage in wars…like it or not, and we do as much as we can to minimize that damage, but the actions of a government at war are not the same as the actions of an individual), that person is a terrorist.

    The fact that Bill Ayers has never shown any remorse for ATTEMPTING TO KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS lets us, in fact, know that this is also not a case of past tense terrorism. It is not that Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn WERE terrorists; they ARE terrorists. The only thing that’s changed is that they aren’t physically planting bombs anymore. Osama bin Laden wasn’t physically involved in the actions of September 11th, 2001, and he hasn’t been physically involved in any actions against the US since then; does that make him any less of a terrorist?

    Chris (6733a5)

  23. I noet that the LA TImes today ran articles about both candidates. It had Obama dealing with with the economic issues and McCain attacking Obama.

    Whether this is accurate is immaterial — in either case the Times knows that the electorate is looking for positiveness and bipartisanship and it is ironic that McCain has moved away from both.

    That Obama can be portrayed as the centrist, forward-looking candidate and McCain as the reactionary zealot is not a tribute to McCain’s campaign.

    As much as I dislike the Obama-Ayers connection, these ads don’t help McCain’s campaign. A month ago, perhaps, but right now people want solutions, not attacks.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  24. Yes Phil. I have pointed out in another thread that it is a little misleading to call Ayers a terrorist. … A terrorist is characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon). Ayers was more of a radical who felt the best way to protest against perceived injustice was to bomb buildings.

    If bombing buildings does not fulfill your definition of terrorism, then you must be using the “Anarchist’s Dictionary of the English Language”, not Webster’s.

    Was it smart? Not by any standard. But does that classify him as a terrorist, in the order of OBL? No. Calling him a terrorist is a little misleading.

    With that reasoning, you could say that Joe Biden or Sarah Palin are not politicians, because they’ve never been president.

    If he is really a terrorist, why is he walking around freely?</i

    >

    Because in spite of all the trash about denying Constitutional rights, etc., our country has been governed by rule of law, and evidence gathering on Ayers and prosecutor conduct was judged inappropriate and not admissible.

    Why is he even allowed to teach in any school?

    Because we tolerate freedom of speech, even speech that is irresponsible, reprehensible, damaging to personal and public welfare, and just downright silly, stupid, and obfuriating.

    You two are simply being disingenuous to occupy our time and irritate us, or so deluded you are to be pitied. Your post has been useful for two reasons:
    1. It again clearly demonstrates how warped your reasoning abilities are.
    2. You gave me an opportunity to use the word obfuriating.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  25. It may be too little too late, but I really think that McCain needs to exploit this to the fullest. The one and only instance during the townhall debate that McCain leveled a charge that left Obama speechless was when McCain tied Obama to the Fannie and Freddie mess through campaign donations and support of “cronies”. McCain didn’t name Raines and Johnson, but they were who he was referring to. Obama couldn’t refute it and it shut him down cold.

    Similarly, Obama can no longer refute his links to scumbags like Ayers and Dohrn. McCain and Palin need to bring this up constantly and dare Obama to refute it. They also need to keep the pressure going on Obama’s ties to Fannie and Freddie. I am praying that now that the MSM’s witch-hunt against Gov Palin has turned up nothing, there’s still enough time for them to do the investigation into Obama that they should have been doing the last two years.

    RobertE (6d0473)

  26. Yes. Bill Ayers is a terrorist. When someone uses violence against innocent bystanders (and a nine-year old John Murtagh is as innocent as they come), and that person is a PERSON, not a government (please don’t use the tired old canard about collateral damage in wars…like it or not, and we do as much as we can to minimize that damage, but the actions of a government at war are not the same as the actions of an individual), that person is a terrorist.

    I disagree. What makes Ayers evil is not those crimes. It was (is?) his goal. He wanted the US to have a Communist government like N. Vietnam. He wanted to take our freedoms away. That is evil.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  27. Of course Ayers is a terrorist. He not only bombed buildings (which is what terrorists do) he designed a nail bomb that was going to be used against U.S. Soldiers at Fort Dix. Terrorist.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  28. OK, what’s the next question?

    Why would a Republican and friend of Ronald Reagan fund a terrorist?

    PC (b4b303)

  29. Late to the issue:

    #3, Phil said, “…Obama is actually addressing this head-on now,” That’s not true. Obama has yet to address any number of issues involving Ayres. Two simple straight forward questions for example: When did they first meet? Did they have mutual friends who introduced them, if so, who were they?

    Then, you say, “…as far as I can tell Ayers was a radical protester who had some pretty serious stuff to be mad about.” Really, now, Phil, come on, “protesters” even radical ones are allowed to demonstrate their opposition in public. We see it frequently. But, protesters who go so far as to explode bombs are terrorists. Words have meaning, you know that, but you attempt to blur the distinction to cover for Obama and Ayres. That’s dishonest, plain and simple.

    Next, you say, “…back in the 60s, mainstream America was something similar to what radical Islamic countries are now.” Hogwash! Phil, I was there, the 60s were nothing remotely similar to what radical Islamic countries are now. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Then you go on to slime the troops, you say, “…U.S. soldiers were killing and raping women and children in Vietnam.” That is such a mean loathsome accusation to make in response to the legitimate question of Obama’s relationship to a domestic terrorist, it proves you aren’t interested in the truth, your interest is in changing the subject with a deliberate and provocative smear.

    Your final paragraph attempts to tie McCain’s war time service to “that status quo” which is a reference to your previous last two sentences: Blacks being refused service in restaurants: and your allegation of US soldiers killing and raping women and children. That’s simply despicable, even for you Phil. Despicable.

    John McCain was not responsible for the crimes you allege. But, conversely Bill Ayres is responsible for his bombs and for his terrorism, he’s proud of it, he says so himself, on 9/11 no less. Phil, McCain isn’t connected to the abuse of any one’s civil rights, black or white. Nor did he participate in rape of women and children. Any killing he may have accomplished was done in time of war and sanctioned by the US.

    But, that’s not true for Bill Ayres and his protege, Barrak Obama. Donna Run tells how she was raped in Bill Ayres apartment while she was in college. Bill Ayres is a terrorist, and Obama has a long history of working closely with Ayres.

    You want to keep that quiet so you attempt to inflame passions to divert attention. Bill Ayres is a terrorist and you are covering for him, that makes you an accomplice.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  30. Roy…oh, I certainly agree that the goal was evil, as well. But attempted murder of innocent civilians is never justified, either. (Again, the actions of a government at war are not attempted murder…I know most people here agree, but I’m adding that to cut that particular pacifist argument off at the knees.)

    Chris (6733a5)

  31. While we’re on the topic, I’ll refer to a post I made on an older thread last night (edited):
    http://www.patterico.com/2008/10/07/gop-on-obamas-connections-to-william-ayers/#comments

    #160 Hey everyone, your collective help requested following up on this:
    Organizing in the 1990s: Excerpts from a roundtable discussion, September 22, 1989“, participants that included Barack Obama, Anne Hallett, Sokoni Karanja, …guests that included Ken Rolling.
    In:
    After Alinsky: Community organizing in Illinois. Knoepfle, Peg (ed.): Springfield, Ill.: Sangamon State University, pp. 123–152. ISBN 0962087335.

    interesting to see what Sen. Obama had to say about community organizing in the context of Alinsky.
    (Hallett cofounder with Ayers of CAC, Rolling was Exec. Dir.)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  32. Why would a Republican and friend of Ronald Reagan fund a terrorist?

    To acheive a noble goal. What makes a terrorist is evil not his crimes, it’s his goal. Osama wnats to impose a Caliphate on this US. Ayers wants to impose Communism on the US.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  33. Second question. Did Ayers really intend to kill innocent citizens or any body for that matter. Answers please.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  34. Roy…oh, I certainly agree that the goal was evil, as well. But attempted murder of innocent civilians is never justified, either. (Again, the actions of a government at war are not attempted murder…I know most people here agree, but I’m adding that to cut that particular pacifist argument off at the knees.)

    What justifies Dresden and Nagaski? Yes, we were at war but Ayers and Osama thinks they are at war with the US as well. It is the goal that differentiates the good and the evil. And, yes, I am a ends justify the means sort of fellow.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  35. Second question. Did Ayers really intend to kill innocent citizens or any body for that matter. Answers please.

    If he really cared about people’s lives, he would not have set bombs. Bombs are dangerous and can kill people. I think Ayer’s wife would agree.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  36. On that note, why did Ayers stuff nails in the bomb for the Fort Dix dance? He possibly couldn’t have wanted to kill anyone. Perhaps he only wanted to wound those soldiers.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  37. First, to love…Yes, Ayers intended to kill innocent citizens. (Again, see John Murtagh.) The bombs they created, by definition, were made with the express purpose to cause the most injury and loss of life possible (shrapnel built in, etc.). I’m sorry, I don’t have time right now to provide links, but I’m sure someone else can provide those, as they aren’t terribly difficult to find…I call on my right-leaning brothers and sisters: help me out! 🙂

    Second, to Roy: Dresden and Nagasaki are justified by the fact that we were at war. A declared war, between two recognized governments. In these cases, the rules of war apply. The rules of war do not apply to individuals. I don’t give a blessed crap whether Ayers or Osama THINK they’re at war with anyone; they’re not, by definition. They’re just loudmouthed individuals with bones to pick, and they pick those bones in the worst way possible. I can declare war against the Chicago political machine and go and shoot Richard Daley, but that doesn’t mean I actually am at war, because I am not a sovereign nation.

    Chris (6733a5)

  38. McCain needs a coherent and committed narrative about Obama’s anti-social leftism. Ayers is a piece of a puzzle, albeit a huge one. But ACORN is another, Wright another, the CAC, Woods, Joyce Foundation, Public Alliance another. The picture forms itself once you fit the pieces. Here’s the rub: McCain has to have the guts to commit to this case, and to know and be able to explain what Leftism means. I don’t think he can. Without this commitment, it’s all just scattershot.

    rrpjr (e98cdc)

  39. Second, to Roy: Dresden and Nagasaki are justified by the fact that we were at war. A declared war, between two recognized governments. In these cases, the rules of war apply. The rules of war do not apply to individuals. I don’t give a blessed crap whether Ayers or Osama THINK they’re at war with anyone; they’re not, by definition. They’re just loudmouthed individuals with bones to pick, and they pick those bones in the worst way possible. I can declare war against the Chicago political machine and go and shoot Richard Daley, but that doesn’t mean I actually am at war, because I am not a sovereign nation.

    Osama is the leader of Al-Qaeda. Ayers is the leader of the Weather Underground. Yes, these groups are not sovereign governments but neither was the United States in 1776. By your definition, Geroge Washington would be a terrorist because he did not engage in war as part of a sovereign government.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  40. Second question.

    There’s no point in attempting to answer The Bobo Doll’s constant ignorance of the facts – it’s nothing more than a blob of goo at this point.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  41. Ho, hum.

    No, unloving2008, blowing up buildings is not a preferred method of killing people.* Buildings are just big pieces of stone, wood, and metal. Ayers was showing total disregard for the self-expression of the artists and architects designing those large working sculptures. Had he been prosecuted for defamation of artwork he would have been locked up for good.

    And when that nail filled bomb went off that killed the Weatherman making it, that was because Ayers purposefully gave them a poor design so it would blow up on them. He knew they were guilty of terrorism and knew unreasonable people would want to defend them, so being a man of action, he dealt with it himself.

    I mean, really, Carleton Armstrong and friends used a whole van-load of explosives severely damaging Sterling Hall at Madison, and they only killed one person, only one widow and two fatherless kids surviving. *Had they really wanted to kill people, they could have done a better job.

    You have just bought yourself the honor of being a perfect representation of the word “Obfuriating”. Thank you. Sorry, ‘2008, I have important things to do now. Others will carry on without me.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  42. When the Republican campaign gets through with exposing Obama’s relationships with Ayers, and with Tony Rezko, and with [former Fannie Mae CEO] Franklin Raines, and with Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Obama is going to look like a cross between George McGovern and Willie Horton.

    And if you don’t believe it, just ask former President Michael Dukakis.

    Official Internet Data Office (b87509)

  43. I have a question for Lovey.

    Do you really think you can obfuscate the evil that is Ayers with your stupid questions?

    PCD (7fe637)

  44. Second question. Did Ayers really intend to kill innocent citizens or any body for that matter. Answers please.

    What part of “nail bomb” doesn’t sound like attempted murder to you?

    As for why Ayers is working at a US university: because the modern left fetishizes violence. Someone who’s willing to commit violence in order to further leftist causes is committed, he’s serious. Ayers was a pivotal member of a violent group founded during the left’s self-declared “Golden Age” — he’s damned near their Platonic ideal of an “activist”.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  45. #31, MD, you point to Ken Rolling. He’s the guy who brought Barrak Obama from NYC to Chicago and put him to work as a Community Organizer in training. Bill Ayres was the money man behind the move.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  46. Calling him a terrorist is a little misleading. If he is really a terrorist, why is he walking around freely? Why is he even allowed to teach in any school? That’s double standard in my book.

    Comment by love2008

    Actually, I think he is walking around because his father, chairman of Con Ed, was a close ally of Mayor Daley and I’m not sure but what the fix was in. If you are a terrorist, it helps if your father is rich and politically connected with the most corrupt city machine in the US. Most of the Weathermen group were rich kids. Ayres’ wife Bernadine Dohrn was not quite as well connected and was associated with a robbery that killed two policemen so she did a (short) prison sentence. Even so, and in spite of being a felon, she is a professor at the Northwestern U law school. Chicago is another world and that is the world that Obama came from.

    MIke K (d8deba)

  47. Who hired Obama and Ayers to sit on the board of CAC? Why that would be Walter Annenberg. Conservative Republican and close personal friend of Ronald Reagan.

    So, was Walter Annenberg a fellow traveler and supporter of terrorist Ayers?

    Yes or no. Please answer that question before going any further. If you cannot admit that, then you must quit that line of inquiry.

    But for arguments sake let’s say that Walter Annenberg was a sympathizer and supporter of domestic terrorism. WHere are the headlines about that? That man had hundreds of millions to spend on education, public TV and who knows what else yet he was a communist underneath it all?

    Please, do your brain a favor, take off the desperate partisan goggles for a second and let it do what it wants to do…THINK LOGICALLY and SENSIBLY.

    End of story.

    As for the effectiveness of the CAC program, that has never been quantified, perhaps grades did not improve, but is that not to say that perhaps thousands of students and kids had access, thanks to Walter Annenberg -Republican conservative and good friend of Ronald Reagan– to materials and instruction that they would not have had otherwise? The problems in education are many and complex and if CAC didn’t have immediate results that translated into better grades it must be understood that it is a sign of the complexity of the issue and the many outside factors that teachers and educators simply have no control over. At least they tried. And they deserve credit for that: Ayers, Annenberg, Obama and the rest of those folks involved with that. Obama was clearly hired as the bright kid to manage the program. I doubt it very highly on a board of trustees such as the one at CAC, that it was he who set the agenda for what was going to happen to the funds. That can’t be pinned on him. As to why he doesn’t talk about his CAC experience, who the hell knows, it isn’t really important at this point. The only person he had to answer to was Walter Annenberg’s foundation (did I mention Annenberg was a conservative Republican who was a close personal friend of that rabidly anti-communist president: Ronald Reagan?) He did his best and he moved on to a successful career in politics and is now a Senator from Illinois and the Democratic nominee for President of the U.S.

    And if McCain is not going to bring up this stuff in the debates, it fosters the notion that his campaign thinks this is important, but he doesn’t.

    It makes him look weak and unable to control his own campaign. Who’s at the head of it, really? In essence it shows he’s a bad leader. His whole image and message is diluted. On the one hand he was supposed to crucify Obama with this Ayers crap on Tuesday a the debate, instead there’s not a peep, so now he goes ahead and wastes his money on a 90 second spot dealing with this crap, when he should be focusing on the economy and brainstorming solutions and policy initiatives for his administration and announcing them to people to show his command of the situation and competence with it, but instead it’s this old saw horse. YAWN.

    I think the GOP strategists are so stuck on the Swift boat meme they can’t think straight anymore. And great, because these shenanigans are going to bury McCain even further and it’s going to be his own inability to take the bull by the horns and lead his campaign that’s going to do him in. He’s at cross purposes here, and again I just wonder who the hell sucked John McCain’s soul out of his body and replaced it with such a weak, lackluster GOP TOOL…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  48. Roy…in all honesty, I go back and forth with myself on whether or not the American Revolution was moral or not. I won’t attempt to answer that question here. The problem with that, though, is that the nature of warfare has changed so much since then (in fact, even in the last 100 years) that attempting to put modern constructs of “terrorism” to actions taken during the Revolution just doesn’t fly.

    And, in case you haven’t noticed, I’m definitely not an “ends justify the means” guy…that sort of thinking just spills right over into moral relativism, and I can’t be a party to that. This might just have to be a place where we agree to disagree.

    Chris (6733a5)

  49. Mike, you cannot reason nor discuss actual sentient thoughts with the Bobo – it cannot be done. I believe David Attenborough first classified this species of Plankton with the definition of Planktosisidiotos.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  50. #

    Second question. Did Ayers really intend to kill innocent citizens or any body for that matter. Answers please.

    Comment by love2008 — 10/9/2008 @ 9:06 am

    Yes.

    OK, next

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  51. Osama is the leader of Al-Qaeda. Ayers is the leader of the Weather Underground. Yes, these groups are not sovereign governments but neither was the United States in 1776. By your definition, Geroge Washington would be a terrorist because he did not engage in war as part of a sovereign government.

    Willfully obtuse much?

    Actually, Washington was part of a sovereign government, which had declared its independence from Britain and its intention of securing that independence with force, if necessary. Washington also obeyed the laws of war in effect at the time, reported to (and was under the orders of) civilian authorities, enforced standards of discipline on his forces, and did not focus his efforts primarily on violence against unarmed civilians.

    If you cannot see someone who planted bombs in public places with the intent of terrorizing the populace into political change as a terrorist, then you have a serious problem.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  52. And, in case you haven’t noticed, I’m definitely not an “ends justify the means” guy…that sort of thinking just spills right over into moral relativism, and I can’t be a party to that. This might just have to be a place where we agree to disagree.

    Consider becoming a ends justify the means guy. We have no moral qualms about the goodness of the American Revolution/Nagaski and the evilness of Ayers and Osama.

    By the way, there’s no moral relativism if you just believe that everything you think is moral, is moral and everything you think is immoral, is immoral. Absolute relativism.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  53. Rob…thanks, and you’re right about that point…it’s the same reason why the Civil War falls under the same guidelines. I don’t agree with the Confederacy’s aims, but they had declared their independence and had a standing government.

    Chris (6733a5)

  54. Roy…see, that’s the problem…when you are the be-all and end-all…well, we’ve all made mistakes in our lives. It’s impossible for every person to be right about everything all the time.

    (And, in case you were wondering, yes, I’m a Christian. There is objective truth: God.)

    Chris (6733a5)

  55. Willfully obtuse much?

    Actually, Washington was part of a sovereign government, which had declared its independence from Britain and its intention of securing that independence with force, if necessary. Washington also obeyed the laws of war in effect at the time, reported to (and was under the orders of) civilian authorities, enforced standards of discipline on his forces, and did not focus his efforts primarily on violence against unarmed civilians.

    If you cannot see someone who planted bombs in public places with the intent of terrorizing the populace into political change as a terrorist, then you have a serious problem.

    What’s the difference between tar and feathering and planting bombs? Was Al-Qaeda in Iraq a soverign government because they declared themselves so?

    The US in the Revolutionary War was moral because of its good goals. Ayers was immoral because of his evil goals.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  56. (And, just to be clear, I fully include myself, and all other Christians, in those who have made mistakes in our lives.)

    Chris (6733a5)

  57. Ayres’ wife Bernadine Dohrn was not quite as well connected and was associated with a robbery that killed two policemen so she did a (short) prison sentence. Even so, and in spite of being a felon, she is a professor at the Northwestern U law school.

    Comment by MIke K — 10/9/2008 @ 9:25 am

    She may be returning to her former fellonship:

    KRON 4 News has learned that three years ago, San Francisco police secretly re-opened the case. Armed with new forensic technology and with State and Federal agencies helping, SFPD investigators began to work full-time on the murders.

    And now, sources tell us, those investigators have identified potential suspects: former members of two militant groups in the ’60s and ’70s — the Weather Underground and the Black Liberation Army, people who’ve been out of the spotlight for decades. The most prominent among them is Bernadine Dohrn, a former leader of the Weather Underground and now a law professor at Northwestern University in Illinois.

    I can just see the Hollywood movie now:

    “So I Married a Nail Bomber”

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  58. What’s the difference between tar and feathering and planting bombs?

    That’s what’s called a “non sequitor”, I believe.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  59. I loved the excuses for Ayres. He didn’t mean to hurt anyone.

    So…if someone like Ayres bombs a building next to a child care place, and collateral damage kills children, that doesn’t count?

    No, the only situation here is that the Trollinator (“…he’ll keep trolling. It’s what they do. It’s all they do…”) is that he or she likes Obama. So anything involving Obama must be okay.

    Look at the number of right wing folk who criticize the heck out of McCain.

    The Right has a candidate, flaws and all. The Left has a teenaged crush.

    On a lighter note, the truth about Obama is finally coming out:

    http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/election-08/obatma/#more-3279

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  60. and did not focus his efforts primarily on violence against unarmed civilians.

    Al-Qaeda focused on killing innocent civiilians because it was the only way for them to acheive their goal of US withdrawl (media leading to public pressure). We killed unarmed civilians because it was the only way to win WWII. What makes us good and Al-Qaeda evil? The goal.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  61. “…and U.S. soldiers were killing and raping women and children in Vietnam.”
    Comment by Phil — 10/9/2008 @ 7:43 am

    Say that in person to my face, you son-of-a-bitch!

    C. Norris (c06b47)

  62. #60, C. Norris, take a number.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  63. #58 as far as I’m concerned they’re both mutant assholes. As if the Big Zero would not throw his own alien bat brother under the bus to serve his own purposes. Reminds me of Men in Black.

    Early posts attempting to justify treasonous/murderous Ayers- doesn’t seem right that FBI screws ups should have the guilty prick walking free and bragging about all the while- “Guilty as sin and free as a bird.” Obama must have known him well before that meeting in Ayers’ living room, but Obama-fellating media doesn’t want to look into it; better to check out Palin’s trash and e-mails.
    In my own development all I see are Obama signs. Moonbatty Palm Beach county adores pussy politicians.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  64. “Not a pretty time, and a lot of people McCain hung out with were defending that status quo.”
    Comment by Phil — 10/9/2008 @ 7:43 am

    Yes! McCain was “hanging” out with Bill Ayres kindred spirits in the Hanoi Hilton.

    You’re using “fighting words”, Phil, and doing a darn good job of it. I hope for your sake you are a woman, otherwise your battle ship mouth will cause your row boat ass injury. And, it will be justified.

    C. Norris (c06b47)

  65. “#60, C. Norris, take a number.
    Comment by Ropelight — 10/9/2008 @ 10:17 am

    A $1,000 bucks for the head of the line.

    C. Norris (c06b47)

  66. The Weather Underground were domestic terrorist. They went so far as to declare war in a manifesto against the US Government. They were not legitimate Viet Name war protesters they are anarchists whose stated goal is to overthrow the US Government. They are just not using bombs anymore, they are using Obama.

    Do some research and learn some history – start here –
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6078589535743610981&ei=TcToSISuDYKM_QHws5n4Dw&q=Underground+bernadine+dohrn

    Jenny (a7a9b9)

  67. A few points:
    “Why would a friend of Reagan, and a Republican (Annenberg) fund Ayers?”

    Amb. Annenberg established a foundation, run by “professional” managers (these usually are Libs, btw) who funded Ayers’ CAC. It is doubtful if Amb. Annenberg even knew the details of who the money was funding. I would assume that he just signed-off on funding groups that would work to improve education in the inner-city, which is an admirable cause.

    Bombing buildings to kill people…
    Then why did the OKC bombing kill so many people?
    And, by the logic expressed her re Ayers, than the OKC bombers were not terrorists either.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  68. Illegal wiretaps….

    It would be interesting if someone could come up with the transcripts from those tapes, so that all the world could hear what Barry’s unknown friend was doing.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  69. The bigger issue should be the demand by the Obama campaign for the Justice Department to prosecute Howard Simmons, whom they claim donated to the American Issues Project.

    The American Issues Project released ads linking Obama to Ayers.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  70. “Why would a friend of Reagan, and a Republican (Annenberg) fund Ayers?”

    “Amb. Annenberg established a foundation, run by “professional” managers (these usually are Libs, btw)”

    Not an uncommon ending for foundations funded originally by conservative benefactors. This leftward drift is one of many reasons that I favor the reform of the 501 (3) (c) portion of the US Tax Code. It’s a pit for the snakes of the left to find the sustenance from which to lay their eggs and to hiss from.

    C. Norris (c06b47)

  71. Amb. Annenberg established a foundation, run by “professional” managers (these usually are Libs, btw) who funded Ayers’ CAC. It is doubtful if Amb. Annenberg even knew the details of who the money was funding. I would assume that he just signed-off on funding groups that would work to improve education in the inner-city, which is an admirable cause.

    So it’s okay to fund a terrorist as long as you don’t know you are funding a terrorist? It’s not like Ayers was secretly picked for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. He was one of three writers of the winning proposal. So who at the Annenberg Foundation thought it was a good idea to give $50 million to a terrorist?

    PC (b4b303)

  72. A few points:
    “Why would a friend of Reagan, and a Republican (Annenberg) fund Ayers?”

    Amb. Annenberg established a foundation, run by “professional” managers (these usually are Libs, btw) who funded Ayers’ CAC. It is doubtful if Amb. Annenberg even knew the details of who the money was funding.

    Annenberg thought that he was giving to to help to improve schools. The specific projects that Chairman Obama decided to fund like the “African studies” school was mixed in with non-controversial sounding projects like Golden Apple Teacher Award, etc. Anyway, the Annenberg Challenge failed under Obama’s executive leadership. There was no improvement in student performance even after spending $50 million dollars.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  73. The ad is now censored at youtube. You have to sign in and confirm your birth date to see it, as if it were something risqué. Another video about Obama that’s just a funny song has also been censored. Building a Religion

    And of course, you can still find videos of terrorists beheading people. Free speech, you know.

    carlitos (74ba2c)

  74. #64, Norris, I like the cut of your jib. Take the lead, with my compliments. I won’t take a dime from a guy like you, there’s no charge, but there is a great deal of admiration and respect.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  75. “… So who at the Annenberg Foundation thought it was a good idea to give $50 million to a terrorist?”

    An extremely good question!
    I don’t know the answer, but I feel confident that the names of the Directors of the Foundation are available, and perhaps the minutes of any meetings where these matters were discussed. As a non-profit, there are quite a few IRS hoops that they have to jump through.

    Perhaps a letter should be sent to the Annenberg Estate/Family asking these questions? I doubt that they like having their reputations associated with the likes of Ayers, but, who knows?

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  76. Serving on two boards with Bill Ayers is like playing golf with OJ Simpson.

    Bill Ayers is still in his cushy tenured job at UIC, the wives and children of the policemen and drivers murdered in the Brinks job are still widows and orphans.

    –furious

    furious (56af6d)

  77. I guess this stuff really doesn’t matter. Shouldn’t you guys be focused on 2012? McCain’s cooked, and it’s mostly because of conversations like this. Nobody is buying this stuff except for the 0.4% of people who listen to (comedian) Rush Limbaugh for actual facts.

    truthnjustice (3d65f9)

  78. So it’s okay to fund a terrorist as long as you don’t know you are funding a terrorist? It’s not like Ayers was secretly picked for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. He was one of three writers of the winning proposal. So who at the Annenberg Foundation thought it was a good idea to give $50 million to a terrorist?

    Annenberg has been dead for years. You might as well ask if Henry Ford agreed with all the left wing causes funded by the Ford Foundation. You either were born yesterday or you are feigning ignorance to make some weak point about “Reagan’s friends.”

    Ayres is part of the radical agenda in “education reform” these days. If you doubt that, read this.

    Mike K (d8deba)

  79. Mike K… Wow, what an unbiased source you just linked. If you’re going to link to the national review then I can link to moveon.org or any number of forward-thinking sites to prove my points.

    I do like this post though. If you have an ice cream cone’s chance in hell, it will be through fear-mongering. Keep at it, maybe McCain will squeeze up to 40 points!

    truthnjustice (3d65f9)

  80. Only a complete idiot would decry the veracity of National Review!
    But then, in talking about “truther”, I repeat myself.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  81. If you cannot see someone who planted bombs in public places with the intent of terrorizing the populace into political change as a terrorist, then you have a serious problem.

    Yes, and the trolls like Phil and love2008 are commenting here, defending people who planted bombs. They are demonstrating mental illness.

    Why would a friend of Reagan, and a Republican (Annenberg) fund Ayers?

    Because he was dead, and someone else was in charge. Are you interested in who that might be?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  82. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/9/2008 @ 11:06 am

    Reality strikes:
    Rush Limbaugh, 14.75M viewers per week…4.8% of total U.S. population;

    Keith Olberdouche, 477K viewers per week…0.16% of total U.S. population.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  83. Comment by Apogee — 10/9/2008 @ 11:28 am

    CORRECTION…
    Amb. Annenberg died in 2002 at his home in PA (he also lived in the Palm Springs CA area).

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  84. “back in the 60s, mainstream America was something similar to what radical Islamic countries are now. Blacks were still excluded from restaurants even in Michigan (Ayers got his start protesting that), and U.S. soldiers were killing and raping women and children in Vietnam.

    I’m in line, too. You’re a real sack of shit, Phil.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  85. Wait until all the true patriots find out that Obama is married to someone that belonged to an anti-American group that was in league with Iran. Oh wait. That’s not Obama. That’s Palin.

    PC (b4b303)

  86. “#64, Norris, I like the cut of your jib.”

    LOL! Thank you. Even though I was US Army and the “jib” reference is Navy (or Monty Burns), it is, indeed, a gratefully accepted compliment.

    I would be just as willing to offer another $1,000 to any (real) person who could offer any proof regarding: “U.S. soldiers were killing and raping women and children in Vietnam.”, who were not already “mental” before they were drafted.

    LBJ’s “Army of Liberation” was made up of the cross section of American society. Since LBJ’s draft was escalated after JFK’s, CMHC Act, it was not too difficult to notice that some recruits did not belong in the army. Those soldiers who committed such crimes, as “Phil” accuses, were most likely mentally ill and the result of JFK’s closing of mental hospitals, and LBJ’s decline to fund the Community Mental Health Centers in order to fund the Vietnam War.

    Wm. Ayres, had he been drafted, would have been one of those soldiers who would have wound up in the stockade for just such a personal war crime as Phil indicts the entire US Army. Ayres is just the type.

    C. Norris (c06b47)

  87. Mike K,

    Thank you for the link. It chills my soul to read Ayers’ words and to see what he, and presumably Obama, have planned for America’s schoolchildren.

    Phil,

    I agree with others that you went way too far with your comment about 1950s-1960s America.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  88. 2+ million civilians died in Vietnam – presumably half of whom were women.

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  89. Comment by Metacom — 10/9/2008 @ 11:46 am

    And many of them were killed by the VC and NVA
    (if they were not, in fact, members of the VC and NVA themselves).

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  90. Ignore troll Metacom. She is a pseudo-radical tool.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  91. Third question: Why do some of you enjoy insults and name calling. You like to engage in it because you know this is a conservative blog. You have immunity here. Patterico will never ban a conservative. No matter how abusive he or she gets. Even when it is not called for, you just love to insult fellow bloggers.
    Question: Do you think insult is a substitute for intelligent and reasonable discourse? Is it the best way to respond when you don’t have anything better to say?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  92. Jack, don’t you mean “psycho-radical tool”?

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  93. lovie…the truth cannot be an insult!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  94. love2008,

    Patterico has banned conservatives.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  95. Love…I agree, I’d rather not insult when actual argument is the correct course of action, and some here don’t always take that line (for my tastes, at least…we’re all different). That said, that which one person sees as an insult is not always actually such. To the larger topics at hand, it is not “insulting” or “racist” to state that Frank Raines has strong ties to Obama, and is also a major part of the downfall of Fannie/Freddie; it is simply stating a fact.

    Chris (6733a5)

  96. Plus Franklin Raines scored himself a fat pad with his evil golden parachute.

    According to the Washingtonian:

    “In DC: Franklin Raines, the former top man at Fannie Mae, bought a three-bedroom, seven-bath penthouse condominium in the West End’s Ritz-Carlton Residences for $4.9 million. The condo has a rooftop terrace with a hot tub, a butler’s pantry, and three parking spaces. Raines, director of the US Office of Management and Budget under President Clinton, was CEO of Fannie Mae from 1999 to 2004.”

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  97. McCain won’t bring it up to Obama because McCain is a pussy.

    6th district (26950d)

  98. “back in the 60s, mainstream America was something similar to what radical Islamic countries are now. Blacks were still excluded from restaurants even in Michigan (Ayers got his start protesting that), and U.S. soldiers were killing and raping women and children in Vietnam.

    A crackhead’s version of history. The US was never “something similar” to radical Islamic countries. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 guaranteed access to public accommodations, five years before Ayers and Dohrn formed their terrorist group. The characterization of the Vietnam War is straight out of Hollywood.

    icr (849ed5)

  99. 97 –

    Yes! There’s some brilliant analysis! Why didn’t I see it that way before? Of COURSE a man who suffered unspeakable torture in Vietnam for YEARS is scared of someone who cries “Racism!” whenever he doesn’t get his way! I am thoroughly convinced!!

    (Now, you see, here’s an example of when insults are warranted.)

    Chris (6733a5)

  100. 91, Lovey, I insult you because you are such a pompous ass. If you were in person, you’d have a broken nose from more than one poster because how offensive you are.

    1. Lovey asks loaded questions without answering any questions in return.

    2. Lovey insults and talks down to those he/she disagrees with.

    3. Lovey can NEVER admit when a Democrat is wrong, needs to be jailed/removed from office or in anyway admit he/she and their fellow travellers are wrong.

    PCD (7fe637)

  101. No. I disagree. You can insult while telling the truth. But lets really ask ourselves, what is the truth. Do you know what it is? Many of you have tried to lie about Ayers past. Some have said he is still a terrorist. That he is “unrepentant”. That he intends to kill innocent people. All lies. But I know telling lies is the only way to win these days.
    For the record:
    Ayers has shown remorse for his actions.
    “Chicago Magazine reported that “just before the September 11th attacks,” Richard Elrod, a city lawyer injured in the Weathermen’s Chicago “Days of Rage,” received an apology from Ayers and Dohrn for their part in the violence. “[T]hey were remorseful,” Elrod says. “They said, ‘We’re sorry that things turned out this way.'”[18
    Also:
    “In the ensuing years, Ayers has repeatedly avowed that when he said he had “no regrets” and that “we didn’t do enough” he was speaking only in reference to his efforts to stop the United States from waging the Vietnam War, efforts which he has described as “. . . inadequate [as] the war dragged on for a decade.”[21] Ayers has maintained that the two statements were not intended to imply a wish they had set more bombs.[21][

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  102. McCain won’t bring it up to Obama because McCain is a pussy.

    McCain is a liberal. I’m convinced he’s only been masquerading as a conservative for all these years because(for most of his career) AZ was a hardcore conservative state and his act was necessary to attain, and then keep, statewide office.

    icr (849ed5)

  103. love2008 – You and your leftist fellow travelers are defending someone who coordinated the planting of bombs, and has stated on the record that he does not regret doing so. This person is a close personal friend of Barack Obama, and they share a common ideology. You are worried about that connection, so you attempt to dilute the severity of his criminal acts, as well as his continuing enthusiasm for those acts.

    That is reprehensible.

    You do not explain what you believe to be the reasoning behind the bombings, nor do you bother to examine the expected result of such an act. You cannot, as Ayers’ own words would supercede your excuses.

    You do not care of the historical context of how the war actually ended and what brought that about, nor are you interested in what Ayers has said regarding his change in ‘tactics’.

    You are simply here campaigning for Obama, and by default, socialism. Your complaints of a lack of intelligent and reasonable discourse are laughable, as you have yet to engage in either.

    The reason for your lack of interest is that the act, along with the ‘reasoning’ behind the act, is not defendable, and as such is damaging to your chosen candidate.

    Again, you work backwards from your pre-conceived decision to support Barack Obama in a contradictory and predictable sloganeering effort. Again – you do not offer reasonable discourse. Your posts are either airy paens to or excuses for Obama.

    Your pretense that you are engaging in a discussion is insulting. You are campaigning, and nothing else, and it is boring.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  104. No. I disagree. You can insult while telling the truth. But lets really ask ourselves, what is the truth. Do you know what it is? Many of you have tried to lie about Ayers past. Some have said he is still a terrorist. That he is “unrepentant”. That he intends to kill innocent people. All lies.

    You are correct, sir. The people Ayers tried to kill (judges, policemen and soliders) were not innocent people in the eyes of Mr. Ayers. Ayers only wants to murder those who disagree with him, not the innocents who agree with him. Thank you for setting the record straight, love2008.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  105. Apogee, you might want to be careful tossing around the word socialism while a Republican president is going around nationalizing everything he can. A Democratic president would never be able to get away with the socialist policies Bush is implementing.

    PC (b4b303)

  106. Apogee, you might want to be careful tossing around the word socialism while a Republican president is going around nationalizing everything he can. A Democratic president would never be able to get away with the socialist policies Bush is implementing.

    LBJ and FDR would disagree. All you need is a Democrat Congress.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  107. Ayers has shown remorse for his actions.

    No he hasn’t. His retraction was made out of fear for his own life, as his article was published on 9/11. He has not changed his mission, and the fact that you would immediately trust someone who still espouses the same leftist ideology he possessed when he committed those despicable acts exposes an extreme lack of judgment on your part.

    He still has the same goals, he now simply wants to install his radical friend into the office of the Presidency.

    The one lying about Bill Ayers and Barack Obama is you, love2008, and their actions prove it.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  108. 101, lovey, you are one sick, deluded liar. Ayers is a terrorist. Ayers did say he wanted to do more terrorism.

    Only, jerks like you think you are doing something positive by being a dishonest lying sack.

    PCD (7fe637)

  109. Tossing around words like socialism only exposes the socialists, no matter who they are.

    Tossing around bombs, like Bill Ayers did, is the subject of this post, PC, as well as the relationship between Terrorist and socialist Bill Ayers and Barack Obama.

    I do agree, however, that the socialists have now decided they need a crisis to implement their ‘plans’.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  110. Rush has viewers? Isn’t he on the radio? Not everyone that listens to Rush actually agrees with him. I listen to him when I can just to get a good chuckle. He’s funny, what can I say. The show is a good model for capitalism, I must admit. They save money on fact-checking because they don’t actually employ anybody doing so. They could probably get any one of you unemployed booger-eaters to do it for relatively cheap.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  111. #103
    Cut the BS talk and provide evidence that Ayers really said he had no regrets. Yes he did terrible things in his youth for what he thought was right. I have also condemned his actions. My point is, prove that he still harbors such tendencies. Or disprove my comment #101.
    Stop dissembling and acting like you are above the fray. You are nothing but another disingenuous, partisan, narrow-minded politician. Supporting the re-election of Bushism.
    Disprove my evidence.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  112. “The economy is the foremost issue in people’s minds” This is true. I hate Ayers and Dohrn as much as any of you, but the credit spreads today are at their worst levels since this crisis started http://www.cnbc.com/id/26905693/ Despite all the govt interventions globally, finances have continued to deteriorate. None of the candidates have a clue what to do about it.

    gp (72be5d)

  113. Cut the BS talk and provide evidence that Ayers really said he had no regrets.

    You are correct, sir. Mr. Ayers has stated that he has one regret….that he could have set more bombs.

    Roy Mustang (f6c58b)

  114. Mustang. Did you hear that from his own mouth and recently or from the GOPuke talking points memo?

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  115. love2008 – Stop barking orders. You aren’t in charge of anything. You want links? – read the post. You disprove those links.

    he did terrible things in his youth for what he thought was right. I have also condemned his actions.

    A perfect example of you talking out of both sides of your mouth. Your campaigning is boring.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  116. The troll was repelled by National Review’s site, sort of like a vampire by the sun. So, in the interest of troll health, I linked to the original article in a left wing source. I hope you fell better as soon as the sun goes down.

    love2008, you really have to do better. It is one thing to deny the association. Try defending Ayres in public at an Obama rally. That would be fun. I would only hope the TV cameras were there to record the rapture as all the Obama trolls cheer terrorism against the US.

    Mike K (d8deba)

  117. Question number for. I can take your insults. Can you take my insults? Or will you run behind our host for protection when I start responding in kind? Tiny little things.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  118. 112, Lovey, how many times do you need the 9/11/2001 NYT article shoved in your face? Are you that RETARDED that you can’t read and acknowledge that you are wrong?

    Maybe, massive physical pain needs to be visited upon you to open your eyes and to shut your mouth?

    PCD (7fe637)

  119. truthnjustice – You shouldn’t throw around the term ‘talking points’. It’s all you ever comment.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  120. PCD – love2008’s only here to campaign. Any mention of discussion is bogus.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  121. PCD… fear-mongering at its finest. My guess is that you are 5’1 and 245 pounds and couldnt break a toothpick in half. But go ahead and make your idle threats from the safety of your parent’s basement.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  122. Tossing around bombs, like Bill Ayers did, is the subject of this post, PC

    Why yes it is the topic of this post. Apparently some people think re-fighting the battles of the Vietnam era is more important than the DOW being down 555 580 591 600 614 points. Perhaps Comrade Bush can nationalize some more industries for the glory of the motherland.

    PC (b4b303)

  123. 122, tnj-troll, try 5’10 and 237 to start with. Next try saying that to my face. I’m not hard to find in Dubuque, IA. You willing to come out of your parents-paid-for dorm room?

    PCD (7fe637)

  124. Ayers and his organization were domestic terrorists who waged war against the US. It matters little whether he has now or ever said he was repentant. I would question anyone’s judgment for any association with them. His wife was on 10 most wanted list for crying out loud. To downplay their behavior, ideology or Obama’s relationship with them is at best foolhardy. I remember them and their activities vividly. They had no justification for their actions. They are anarchists.

    Jenny (a7a9b9)

  125. Ha, well even so, that is awfully beefy. According to insurance actuary tables you are like 60 pounds overweight, PCD.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  126. #119
    People who talk tough are in reality never that tough. They use empty talking to make up for their impotency. Talk is cheap. And who among us is really acting “Retarded”? Is it not the one threatening a complete stranger on the internet? Now go take your medicine and get back into your restraints, before you hurt yourself.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  127. PCD… to paraphrase a question from the debate… Taco Bell’s big box meal is a responsibility, not a right.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  128. This topic sure does get the Obamatrons excited. They are coming out of the woodwork.

    JD (f7900a)

  129. 126, Insurance Tables only describe pencil-necked geeks. There are plenty of occupations where the people in them are “beefy” by your appellation, like Union Picket Line Enforcer. In the words of one former Dubuque Mayor, Like a banana outside of the bunch, you should expect to get peeled.

    PCD (7fe637)

  130. truth – You want to talk about responsibilities and Rights? Healthcare a Right, but individual right to own a handgun is not?

    JD (f7900a)

  131. Huh! Isn’t it funny how the McLame team gets you to discuss ONLY Bill Ayers?
    Were any of you even around in the 60’S??? Don’t you know how wrong things in this country were? A president is shot & killed by his own people (Americans killed Kennedy, plain & simple), Black people are being killed in the South like their cattle, not to metion the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS killed in the Vietnam war FOR NO REASON.
    God people! I’m not saying what Ayers did was right but look at the time in which it occured. People were pi**ed off! People has enough of our Gov’t not governing anything at all.
    Look Obama may know this guy but LOTS of people know this guy. So if you work with a someone, briefly, and they did something FORTY years ago, like maybe they killed someone. Or maybe they protested or maybe they looted…whatever horrible thing a person did 40 years ago was long time ago and all of you “Christians” are acting HORRIBLE. OH YOU”LL FORGIVEN PALIN”S LITTLE GIRL FOR GETTING PREGNANT & SINNING??? A SIN IS A SIN AND FORGIVING ONE DOESN”T COME WITH “WELL MAYBE WE SHOULDN”T FORGIVE THAT SIN” SHUT UP ALREADY & GO BACK TO YOUR FAKE PRAYING. HYPOCRITES….ALL OF YOU!!!

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  132. JD – They are fun. I admire you for actually trying to engage even the ones that are beyond parody.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  133. 126 & 127, if you two Heroes of the International Communist Brotherhood ever want to meet, IRL. Let’s see who is a stand up person, and how craps their pants and calls for Mommy.

    PCD (7fe637)

  134. Spelling Correction “They’re cattle”

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  135. And they just keep on coming.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  136. I don’t have a problem with the second amendment. I think that some weapons that make it difficult for police officers to do their jobs could probably be more sporadic. I don’t think that the ordinary Joe-Schmo knows that the second amendment begins: ” A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,”

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  137. ONE spelling error is all you felt the need to go back and correct in that incoherent, third-grade level screed?

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  138. I LOVE ALL CAPS AND WALLS OF TEXT !!!!!!!!

    Even better when it throws out some sweet conspiracy theories.

    Black people are being killed in the South like their cattle

    Really? They are? Someone should tell the media.

    Never mind. An idea that was not arrived at by thinking cannot be changed by logic …

    JD (f7900a)

  139. “could probably be more sporadic.”
    What are you? Twelve?

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  140. Oh and Jenny? Yeah go ahead & read my comment 132. You definitely are a Christian (I can just tell. HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  141. Hey PCD… can I guess at what age you finally stopped picking your nose and eating it? My official guess is… whatever age you were 3 minutes ago.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  142. Truth – It is an individual right, not a collective. Don’t let silly little things like the Supreme Court get in your way. So, you think that Healthcare is a Right, and gun ownership is debatable, given the language in the Bill of Rights?

    JD (f7900a)

  143. Yeah the multiple !!!!!!!!!!!!! is always a nice side dish with the clever “McSame”, “McBush”, “Rethuglicans”, “Repugs”, “GOPukes”, “stop watching Fox News”, “real issues”, “non-issue”, “distraction”, and of course “racism.”

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  144. What are you talking about Klumpy? Pretty smart for a 12 year old, eh?

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  145. JD? Yeah…you should really check your history…umm here you go..

    Here’s ONE article:

    http://www.lawyershop.com/2005/07/22/miss-investigates-60s-black-mens-deaths/

    You’re such an idiot, KKK member I assume?

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  146. You’re putting words into my mouth. I only addressed your 2nd amendment question. I didn’t even write that it was ‘debatable’ but it is telling that you used that adjective based solely on my posting of the verbage in the Bill of Rights.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  147. SC123 – You used the present tense, are, not the past tense. You are a fucking imbecile.

    JD (f7900a)

  148. I didn’t even write that it was ‘debatable’ but it is telling that you used that adjective based solely on my posting of the verbage in the Bill of Rights.

    If you were not using that to question whether or not it is an individual right, what was the point?

    Is Healthcare a Right?

    JD (f7900a)

  149. Verbage. Haha!

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  150. SC123 — you might want to look up “verb tense”.

    And, really, Kennedy was killed by one person, an unbalanced Marxist looking to make a name for himself.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  151. klumpy… you’re killing me. ‘verbiage’. That notwithstanding, the point is still the same. I think affordable health care is a right.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  152. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/9/2008 @ 1:24 pm

    Please explain to us the concept of a “dependent clause”?

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  153. I think affordable health care is a right.

    Could you point out where we should find this in the Bill of Rights?

    JD (f7900a)

  154. I think this was my favorite line from #132:

    “People has enough of our Gov’t not governing anything at all.”

    Brilliance! Pure genius! Give this man tenure at Brown!

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  155. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/9/2008 @ 1:36 pm

    A self-identified Socialist!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  156. JD – you didn’t read that in the 74th Amendment? It’s the right listed after “affordable housing” and right before “living wage.”

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  157. Dependent clause? Are you referring to my posting of the beginning of the 2nd Amendment? I thought the rest of the amendment was common knowledge. Google it, Drew.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  158. “A self-identified Socialist!”
    Yeah and they’re ALWAYS worth taking seriously!

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  159. I think affordable health care is a right.

    So you believe you’re entitled to the labor of others?

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  160. Hahaha*10^7… Yes, socialism’s main goal is affordable health care. Drew, who will hereafter be referred to as strawberry shortcake (SS for short) you need to look up socialism then we’ll continue the conversation.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  161. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/9/2008 @ 1:39 pm

    Since you don’t know what a “dependent clause” is, to attempt to argue the meaning of the 2nd Amendment with you would be a meaningless excercise.
    For further edification, you might avail yourself of J.Scalia’s opinion in Heller v DC

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  162. While I do that, you should work on the nuances between capitalism, socialism, welfare, corporate welfare, facism, etc. NOBODY on this site seems to know what these terms mean.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  163. What makes “affordable health care” a right? What does “affordable” mean? What if medical professionals would prefer to spend their time pursuing other goals? What happens if there are more people demanding “affordable health care” than can be serviced?

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  164. JD, I love how upset you are! You must really be a loser!

    See you can’t read…aww poor right wing idiot.

    Read it again (if you can). I don’t want you to hurt yourself or anything. It makes perfect sense.

    LOOOOOOOOOSSSSSERRR

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  165. So I assume that the SS and his brethren are espousing unaffordable health care? Hmm, you may want to keep that one on the DL until after the election.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  166. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/9/2008 @ 1:44 pm

    Please, Oh Great One, give us the benefit of your wisdom by defining these concepts for us, the great uneducated pool of pond scum, who have awaited your devine leadership for so long!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  167. Where in the Bill of Rights does it give people the right to other people’s goods and labor?

    JD (f7900a)

  168. “facism” [sic]
    I assume you will explain the meaning of this term given that you don’t even know how to spell it properly.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  169. So I assume that the SS and his brethren are espousing unaffordable health care?

    No, just disputing that the services of other people can ever be a right.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  170. SC123

    Black people are being killed in the South like their cattle,

    The fact that you do not understand simple verb tense, and basic spelling is on you, not me.

    I am not upset, I am shocked and saddened by your aggressive stupidity.

    JD (f7900a)

  171. I also love the misuse of words like “nuances” in these half-assed attempts at displays of superior intellect all the while dodging honest questions. Quite funny.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  172. There are a lot of items that are in the Bill of Rights that Bush, with the approval of SS no doubt, has ignored. Next question!

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  173. Oh and Jack? You sound like-a-real-attractive guy! HA!
    I’m sorry I didn’t correct everything for you! I have a life and cannot just sit here all day proofreading my stuff before I post it to losers like yourself & JD.

    GO OBAMA!!!

    PS. You two are a couple dumbasses who wouldn’t lift a finger for anyone in need or actually do something for their country, except probably get drunk and kill someone with your BMW’s. Garsh darn it, golly gee, aren’t you a couple of LOOOOOOOSSSSSERS…Of course you’ll vote for McLAME & Palin because you don’t have a clue about real life. Your mommy & daddy probably given you everything you’ve ever wanted, including racist, bigot views. Congrats! Now move to another country please!

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  174. There are a lot of items that are in the Bill of Rights that Bush, with the approval of SS no doubt, has ignored.

    We await your brilliant examples of this with breathless anticipation.

    PS. You two are a couple dumbasses who wouldn’t lift a finger for anyone in need or actually do something for their country, except probably get drunk and kill someone with your BMW’s. Garsh darn it, golly gee, aren’t you a couple of LOOOOOOOSSSSSERS…Of course you’ll vote for McLAME & Palin because you don’t have a clue about real life. Your mommy & daddy probably given you everything you’ve ever wanted, including racist, bigot views. Congrats! Now move to another country please!

    This was really as predictable as Baracky raising taxes, or voting present.

    JD (f7900a)

  175. JD are you kidding me? It’s people like you who bring this country down. You wear blinders, watch Fox News and cry about every little thing…especially when your an old fart & nobody loves you because you were such an asshole when you were younger…awww…such a sad life you will lead.

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  176. aggressive stupidity.”
    You hit that on the hit perfectly. It’s amazing how people who display such a complete lack of intellectual discipline, skill, logic, and any other of the fundamentals of someone whose point of view merits being taken the least bit seriously are always the ones that are so in-your-face with their allegedly superior minds and in every display thereof reveal more and more of how mind-numbingly dumb they are. Maybe there’s a reason why there’s a ruling class of haves for reasons such as the pure inability of people to express themselves with any degree of intelligence and adherence to facts?

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  177. I hope I never see these two in my AOR!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  178. Oooh hgood comeback , ouch! That was sooooo clever.

    I bet you were a real winner with the ladies.

    I USED PAST TENSE THERE BTW.

    I can’t imagine ANYONE even thinking of talking to you, let alone dating you. Ooooh ouch!

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  179. “watch Fox News”
    Original

    “when your an old fart”
    For the ten thousandth time, the your vs. you’re error

    I think they must have just recently introduced the term “blog” to a few random West Philadelphia junior high schools and let ’em loose.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  180. Oh seriously, JD? Have you been living in a hole for the past 7 years? You’re a big boy (though I hope not as big as PCD because that’s just palin… err, plain gross) so you can look that up on your own.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  181. truth and SC remind me of the marauding gangs of seventh graders that terrorize subway passengers around 3:30 PM every week day.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  182. Ooooh good comeback, ouch! It was SO clever!

    You must have been such a hit with the ladies.

    I USED PAST TENSE THERE BTW…

    I can’t imagine anyone talking to you much less dating you….Lemme guess? You live in a townhouse in the middle of the burbs, you sin sin sin the days away & always sit in the front at church? Yeah I thought so. BTW I am a recovering Catholic & you sir? Are full of sh**.

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  183. klumpy… you have been on here for an hour and have contributed nothing but grammatical commentary. Maybe you could teach Bush (or Palin for that matter) how to say ‘nuclear’. Maybe that’s not grammar, but that gigantic barbed wire pole you must have up your arse with respect to pointless stuff will come in handy.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  184. Does anyone have any idea what these two rocket scientists are talking about?

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  185. Hey Jack? Yeah…I have so much respect for a guy whose last name is Klompus…

    What a douche bag…

    I bet you are also just the hit of any party!

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  186. Oh seriously, JD?

    Seriously. Make your case for where Bush and the Supreme Court have trampled on the Bill of Rights.

    SC123 – Usually trolls are fun to whack around. You are not even good at trolling. My 6 year old daughter could come up with better insults than you, and without a doubt, she can spell and utilize simply grammar better than you.

    JD (f7900a)

  187. WOW! YOU have kids?

    Yikes.

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  188. “contributed nothing but grammatical commentary.”
    Maybe because your laughable elementary school level skills with grammar have provided endless opportunity for ridicule.

    “pointless stuff”
    Yep. Pointless. And thus you remain in the ruled class looked down upon and ridiculed by the ruling class leaving you with nothing but wet dreams of “socialism” to compensate for your meager lot in life.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  189. Eyes amm yur entellektuel sooperiar, SC123. Your a mintell mijit. All you’re brane sells are belong too uss.

    JD (f7900a)

  190. SC123 – Eye am curious. Exactly what have I said that makes me such a danger to this country?

    JD (f7900a)

  191. Oh what-sa-matta? You don’t like my insults?

    Ok, here’s one:

    You are an asshole who needs to crawl back under the rock from which you emerged.

    You are the essence of a mid-life loser who cannot be honest with his wife about the little affairs you have or the discusting talk you have with your buddies at the office…which of course, would offend your little girl. You’ve never respected women I take it? Hmm…what else? You’re the person who calls Palin a MILF…why? Because you are an overweight buffon who makes his 6 figure salary and cares nothing of the “little” people, much less minorities (which includes women).
    Let’s call you what you really are:
    A Hatemonger

    Now I’m off to go to the gym..do you know what that is? Probably not…I have a race next week…remember those you fat bloated piece of sh**?
    Ta-Ta!

    SC123 (f5ae2e)

  192. Oh seriously, JD? Have you been living in a hole for the past 7 years? You’re a big boy (though I hope not as big as PCD because that’s just palin… err, plain gross) so you can look that up on your own.

    In other words, you have nothing.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  193. As I stated previously, the level of histrionic Trolldom here is directly related to the level of panic on the part of the cultists for The Messiah. The polls must be much closer than they would appear at this point – the “action alerts” from Camp Axelrod are becoming more feverish by the day.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  194. Obama describes himself as being deeply involved with South African divestment while in college, at both Occidental and Columbia.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/104/story/21544.html
    http://web.archive.org/web/20000916205152/www.politicallyblack.com/audio22300.htm

    Barbara Ransby went to Columbia, too, and was a founder, in 1981, of the group called the “Coalition for a Free South Africa,” originally part of Columbia’s Black Student Organization. She and someone named Danny Armstrong (http://www.findatree.com/daniel.html), along with several others started the group. In fact, she was a School of General Studies student senator and was responsible for getting a resolution to pass unanimously in the Columbia senate asking the University to divest from South Africa. It’s likely that if Barack Obama “was deeply involved in that effort” as he stated, that he would have known her.

    Currently, Barbara Ransby is a professor at UIC, where Bill Ayers teaches, and has been since 1996. If you google her name along with Bernadine Dohrn , you get hits that show their names sometimes appear together, for example:
    http://www.uic.edu/classes/las/las400/conferencealt.htm (friend Cathy J. Cohen’s on that one, too)
    http://antiauthoritarian.net/NLN/?p=179
    http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=1208 (Rashid Khalidi’s on that one, too)
    http://www.crossroadsfund.org/CR.AR.20036.pdf

    Has any reporter even asked Barbara Ransby at the University of Illinois-Chicago (or Dan Armstrong- http://www.findatree.com/daniel.html , a fellow founder of the CFSA at Columbia in ’81) about Obama and his time there? They were all ‘deeply involved’ in South African divestment at Columbia so I would think it would be natural for them to know one another. BTW, I think everyone would agree that that particular cause, anti-apartheid, was a good one so that’s not the issue here. The issue is that there’s been little discussion of Obama’s Columbia years and that’s suspicious particularly when you add Obama’s stated understanding of his Rev. Wright’s anti-Israel views.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/barack_obama_and_israel.html
    http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9427.shtml

    There are parts of Obama’s life that are simply missing from any real scrutiny and yet there’s a general sense from many news organizations that says, “The American public has already vetted him…”

    Kristen (4a0d2b)

  195. The trolls certainly need to distract from the point of the Post, which is that Barack Obama has ideological ties to terrorists.

    Bill Ayers and his wife have not changed their ideology, and it is that ideology that prompted them to attempt to kill with bombs.

    They’ve just changed their tactics.

    And the left is furiously throwing insults to distract from that fact.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  196. You are the essence of a mid-life loser who cannot be honest with his wife about the little affairs you have

    I am not sure that this should even be justified with a response, except to point out that it is a lie.

    or the discusting talk you have with your buddies at the office…which of course, would offend your little girl.

    Exactly what are you referring to, or is this just projection? I really do not talk to too many people in my office, and certainly do not engage in discusting talk.

    You’ve never respected women I take it?

    I honor the women in my life, and respect all women, some more than others.

    Hmm…what else? You’re the person who calls Palin a MILF…why?

    I probably did so, in jest, at some point. She is pretty.

    Because you are an overweight buffon

    I am not sure what a buffon is. Dictionary.com linked it to some French dude, which I can attest, I am not. Overweight, hardly. 6’3″ 210 pounds after Krav Maga class this morning.

    who makes his 6 figure salary

    Was that you that tried to access my checking account?

    and cares nothing of the “little” people, much less minorities (which includes women).

    You know so very little. My Better Half is a minority, you little twatwaffle.

    Let’s call you what you really are:
    A Hatemonger

    I have expressed nothing but tolerance, and sympathy, towards you. I cannot imagine how difficult your life must be. Having to think about such basic things like blinking, left-right-left-right in order to walk, etc … has to be quite trying. I admire your courage.

    Now I’m off to go to the gym..do you know what that is?

    You are more than welcome to join me in a Krav workout. I can always use a good sparring partner. I doubt you could keep up for long.

    Probably not…I have a race next week…remember those you fat bloated piece of sh**?

    If you are just starting to train now, you are too late.

    Ta-Ta!

    See ya’. Don’t let the door hit ya’ where the good Lord split ya’

    JD (f7900a)

  197. Dmac, as the market plunges Obama’s numbers go up. Perhaps Republicans should offer their ideas for the economy instead of fighting 40 year old battles. Actually, keep fighting the 40 year old battles. McCain and Palin would be a disaster if they won. Not that they even have a chance of winning at this point…

    PC (b4b303)

  198. I know I am not always the nicest guy. Alright, rarely, if ever, the nicest guy. But damn, I have been like flypaper for twatwaffles the last couple days.

    JD (f7900a)

  199. Dmac, as the market plunges Obama’s numbers go up.

    Misery pimps, the Dems are. They can only win votes that way.

    JD (f7900a)

  200. Wow. The effects of abject panic in liberals are…fascinating to watch.

    Glad to have their inadvertent input on how successful they expect this pointing out of just a very few of Obama’s questionable associations to be.

    Thanks, guys. Senator McCain, please keep it up.

    L.N.,
    Saw your link to the Morrison article – cool! Thanks for linking it here. Will be reading that later – sounds interesting.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  201. #194 Have to agree. They’re quite testy lately. When there is no defense or argument, throw things! Facts are neither right or wrong, they are facts. 🙂

    Jenny (a7a9b9)

  202. This level of hysteria is not a sign of someone confident that they are winning, to be sure.

    JD (f7900a)

  203. as the market plunges Obama’s numbers go up.

    You have that backwards.

    When there’s signs of an organized crime ring, people hide their valuables.

    Again, going all the way back into the past, to 2008, why did Barack Obama feel the need to lie about the extent of his relationship with Bill Ayers and his wife?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  204. Dmac, as the market plunges Obama’s numbers go up.

    Yeah, JD – that’s their only ticket here, apparently; the worse off everyone is, the better The Messiah’s chances to ascend to his annointed throne. First they desperately wished for the Iraq War’s failure, and were bitterly disappointed by The Surge’s success. Now they wish economic pain on a widespread basis – because that’s the only way for their God to win. Beautiful.

    Bitter – enders, that’s all they’ve got; they’d rather the country be martyrs for their cause.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  205. “Dmac, as the market plunges Obama’s numbers go up.”

    PC – You have the relationship wrong. The market is plunging in anticipation of an Obama victory. Rational people understand the impact of large tax increases on a shaky economy and the prospect of $800 billion of additional government spending on top of a $700 billion bailout.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  206. As I was reminded on another site, Obama called for NBC to fire Don Imus after Imus used racially insensitive language in reference to a womens basketball team, mirroring dialogue Spike Lee had used in one of his movies.

    Bill Ayers saying in all seriousness that he did not regret the bombings and wished he could have done more is in my opinion much worse than Don Imus. It’s no wonder that Obama has been trying to minimize his connections to him and has covered up their relationship from the world. Bill Ayers hates the U.S., but Obama defends their relationship. Obama has no intellectual honesty or consistency, but most of us already know that.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  207. daley rocks – Yes, the market is plunging because Obama is going to win. The plunge has nothing to do with the locked up credit market, Iceland going into receivership, the UK Using terrorism laws to freeze the assets of a liberal western democracy, the $600 trillion to $1 quadrillion in OTC derivatives that need to unwind, unemployment skyrocketing, the nationalization of the financial industry, etc. It’s all Barack Hussein Obama’s fault.

    We should keep the term BDS around, but the B should stand for Barack.

    PC (b4b303)

  208. PC – I thought the libs were stuck on Palin derangement syndrome right now.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  209. “It’s all Barack Hussein Obama’s fault.”

    Correct – The other information has already been priced into the market.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  210. Why does Barack Hussein Obama hate GM?

    PC (b4b303)

  211. The economy is the foremost issue in people’s minds

    Well, you got off to a good start but it was downhill from there.

    Xanthippas (9c0325)

  212. Why does Barack Hussein Obama hate GM?

    More importantly, why does Barack hate people who “bitterly cling to their guns and their religion?” I wonder if those same bitter people go to churches who also preach the hatred of their native country?

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  213. More revelations about Ayers.
    Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education. His interests include teaching for social justice, urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, children in trouble with the law, and related issues.[35]

    He began his career in primary education while an undergraduate, teaching at the Children’s Community School (CCS), a project founded by a group of students and based on the Summerhill method of education. After leaving the underground, he earned an M.Ed from Bank Street College in Early Childhood Education (1984), an M.Ed from Teachers College, Columbia University in Early Childhood Education (1987) and an Ed.D from Teachers College, Columbia University in Curriculum and Instruction (1987).

    He has edited and written many books and articles on education theory, policy and practice, and has appeared on many panels and symposia.
    People can change.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  214. No, he hasn’t changed, he just got some lip-stick to put on the pig that his life is.
    It just shows the moral depravity of academe that they would honor this slime with degrees, and jobs.
    His philosophy is that of a radical, revolutionary who wishes to destroy society so that it can be reborn in his image, and the image of the radicals that preceed him (Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Alinsky, and others).
    If you wish to see where Ayers would lead us, you should dust off those books by Solzhenitzen that perfectly describe the paradise-on-earth known as the Soviet Union.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  215. #29 John McCain was not responsible for the crimes you allege.u have contradicted ourself here.all the argument u put forward.so can u say the same thing here that obama committed the crimes too.if mcain can not be tie with crimes committed by U.S soldiers how can u do likewise to obama.accept the fact it did happened and even now come to think of it.the number of innocent civilians dying each passing day in Iraq.they have the same right just as every single american have.mcain voted for that war.we are a country of terrorist believe it or not.

    markus (c0f5a7)

  216. Sigh…yes, and Ayers’ education theory is to indoctrinate kids into socialism/Marxism. This is not hyperbole; this is exactly what he’s said, repeatedly. He wants to start them young, and turn them into Marxists before they know any better. Frankly, that’s very nearly even more heinous than blowing people up…not quite, but nearly. He hasn’t changed in the slightest…he’s just gotten enough of a brain to figure out that killing people probably isn’t the best way to draw people to his cause.

    Chris (6733a5)

  217. Obama must have been busy today shorting all those financial shares. Damn you Barack Hussein Obama! When will you stop destroying America?

    PC (b4b303)

  218. Challenge: Anyone talking derogatorily about Ayers should go visit him. Find out personally what kind of person he is. Ask him directly what he thinks today and what he teaches. Get the truth from the horses mouth. These articles are old. They have biases both ways. Reports show that Ayers has done philanthopic things in Chicago in the past few years. He has probably accomplished more good things than some of us have. It is often human nature to enjoy saying negative things about people rather than positive or refuse to believe people can change. It is easier than getting to the truth. The truth that is important that is – which is who Ayers is today, not who he was. If you are going to go down that road, you better include negatives about McCain and the Keating Five – Charles Keating was his mentor. I think a mentor is more significant than a board associate.

    Patricia (0fbad4)

  219. With the new rules on short-selling, it is virtually impossible to short shares in the financial industry.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  220. Great site you got!

    Would you like a Link Exchange with our new blog COMMON CENTS where we blog about the issues of the day??

    http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

    Steve (8ed508)

  221. Another Drew – Did you even read the article? The ban was lifted today. That was pointed out in the first sentence. I don’t know about you, but I blame Obama.

    PC (b4b303)

  222. Charles Keating was his mentor

    Link please.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  223. Comment by PC — 10/9/2008 @ 4:30 pm

    No, I was unaware of that change by the SEC – haven’t read my WSJ today yet. Thanks for the update.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  224. PC – If Obama’s playing the market, I hope he’s planning on disclosing more about it than he has about his relationship with Ayers.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  225. I’ll preemptively blame Obama for the slaughter at the LEH CDS unwind tomorrow.

    PC (b4b303)

  226. love2008 claims that “people can change”, but it is Ayers himself who tells us that he has not changed his opinions nor has he renounced his actions.

    A photo of someone standing on the American flag would be a clue large enough for everyone but love2008 …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  227. Charles Keating was his mentor.

    Comment by Patricia — 10/9/2008 @ 4:28 pm

    Pure rubbish.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  228. Okay, those other posts by Patricia are not by me.

    The Original Patricia

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  229. Thought there was something strange; just didn’t sound like you.
    Right Wing Fundamentalist Bigot!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  230. The quality of trolls is definitely dropping.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  231. #226
    Okay SPQR. You got me. Now kindly show me an authentic link that proves that Ayers actually said he does not regret bombing civilians and wishes to do more. No more lies. No more politics. Just the truth, please.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  232. Iceland going into receivership

    I blame Bush

    we are a country of terrorist believe it or not.

    markus follows a long line of idiots, yet manages to stand out.

    JD (f7900a)

  233. I think the onus should be on Bill Ayers to denounce his prior actions, and seek forgiveness. lovie should be able to show us where he has done so.

    JD (f7900a)

  234. Actually, love, you could have heard Ayers’ and Dorhn’s own words if you had been listening to Hugh Hewitt between 4 & 5 today. He had recordings of interviews of both where they both said that they should have done more, and they fully believe in what they did and do not regret it in the least. If you go to http://www.hughhewitt.com
    they might have a transcript up, or even a sound clip.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  235. “…markus follows a long line of idiots, yet manages to stand out.

    It is a race to the bottom!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  236. I thought the ban was only shorting on the down tick. There had been a ban on that for decades, but it was taken out with the elimination of fractional valuations. But not having it allows shorts to just pound a price down because there is no intervention by anyone who might want to buy. Requiring shorting only on the uptick is supposed to slow shorts and prevent crashing a particular stock.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  237. love2008 points to a position in academia as proof that Ayers is no longer a marxist.

    Try again.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  238. Who ever said that the NYSE was rational?
    Markets, in macro, are rational; this is a herd that has been stampeded.
    Just another example of their irrationality, exuberance or not.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  239. There was an outright ban on shorting a list of financials, but that was soon expanded to include companies like GM and GE. I’m not sure if the SEC reimplemented the uptick rule, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

    PC (b4b303)

  240. Lovet – Why not do a little work to support your side for a change? You don’t seem to accept anything produced by the other side.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  241. Another Drew – this is a herd that has been stampeded.

    Are you talking about Democrats?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  242. I blame Bush

    I prefer to refer to President Bush as the Ten Trillion Dollar Man.

    PC (b4b303)

  243. 2008 – Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education.

    Distinguished Professor is a title, not a description. Just as a judge having the title “The Honorable” does not make him honorable, so Ayers has only ‘distinguished’ himself with vile behavior and an allegiance to the same leftist worldview which he used to justify bombing people.
    His other allegiance is to Barack Obama, but Barack doesn’t want you to know that, for some reason.

    His interests include teaching for social justice, urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, children in trouble with the law, and related issues.
    Best to leave that one vague, love2008, as the specifics of his ‘teachings’ would disprove the point you are trying to make.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  244. *sighs*
    Okay carefully read this link with an open mind. Never stop asking the right questions.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  245. Nikkei is down 9%. Damn you Barack Obama!

    PC (b4b303)

  246. Cut the BS talk and provide evidence that Ayers really said he had no regrets.
    Already done, multiple times, by multiple people, you’ve ignored it.

    My point is, prove that he still harbors such tendencies. Or disprove my comment #101.
    Already done to the standard of reasonable doubt.

    Stop dissembling and acting like you are above the fray. You are nothing but another disingenuous, partisan, narrow-minded politician. Supporting the re-election of Bushism.
    Indeed. I never joined the Weather Underground, my wife has never been on the FBI’s most wanted list.

    Disprove my evidence.
    Already did, at least twice.

    Worse yet:
    – I don’t intend to vote for the most inexperienced and unqualified candidate in the last 50+ years, at least
    – Apparently I think Obama’s betrayal of his mentor in Chicago politics is more of a problem than the Dems
    – I am not going to vote for someone who helped contracts go to a now convicted felon who then helped the politician buy a house.
    – I am not going to vote for someone who has belonged to a racist church for the last 20 years, be it white, black, green or purple
    – I am not going to vote for somebody feeding at the trough of Fannie and Freddie

    – If I thought there was a shred of intellectual integrity in your brain I would be happy to continue a dialogue, but I’m afraid I don’t see the evidence.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  247. Comment by love2008 — 10/9/2008 @ 4:11 pm

    “People can change.”

    Love2008, do you really believe that a resume is evidence of a person’s ideology being transformed? Seriously? Because if you’ve spent any time at a university in the past 3 decades you would clearly see that if perchance it did influence a change, its highly doubtful it would be away from socialism and the left.

    Comment by Patricia — 10/9/2008 @ 4:46 pm

    Original Patricia, I’m so relieved. I read the Other Patricia’s comments twice and thought, OMG, this frenzied election season has driven one of my favorite commenters (heard from far too infrequently) right over the edge. LOL!

    Dana (658c17)

  248. Comment by Apogee — 10/9/2008 @ 5:38 pm

    No, I’m talking about Wall Street;
    though, I’m quite sure their are a few Dems there, this has nothing to do with politics.
    It is a full-blown, financial panic.
    Lightning struck, and this herd of cattle are running full tilt to the cliff that marks the financial abyss.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  249. Comment by love2008 — 10/9/2008 @ 5:47 pm

    Pablum!

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  250. lovie – I read that. He is a vile man. He did not apologize to the victim, he said he was sorry it turned out the way it did. There is nothing in there that suggests remorse, contrition, or anything even remotely approaching that. Setting aside wiki as a source …

    JD (f7900a)

  251. MD, at #247. My comment #112 was actually directed to Apogee. At comment #104. There must have been a jump on the thread.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  252. #251
    Well the victim himself felt they were remorseful. He said so himself. “[T]hey were remorseful,” Elrod says. Elrod, being one of their victims. Unless you are going to take the place of a shrink and know what was on their mind. JD, are you a shrink? Are you psychic? How do you know they had no remorse even when the victim said they showed it? Help me out here.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  253. “[T]hey were remorseful,” Elrod says. “They said, ‘We’re sorry that things turned out this way.

    Some of the other victims of their bombs do not share that sentiment.

    And “We’re sorry that things turned out this way” is not quite the same as saying “We’re sorry that we made a bomb that injured you, and killed others”.

    Look, if he was sorry, he would say so, loudly and proudly. All of his statements prior to, and since, suggest that he is not. I will give Bill credit for having the stones to speak to one of his victims. But that does not make his a good guy, or an honorable guy.

    JD (f7900a)

  254. love2008 – always making demands of others, and ignoring questions asked of you. I’ve told you many times now – you are not in charge. Barking orders will get you nowhere.

    You are campaigning. Your ‘job’ is to come up with endless bullshit questions challenging anything and everything, no matter how settled the subject, all while maintaining that others need to disprove you. When caught, you merely ignore your error and try another challenge.

    Again – you are not in a discussion. You are campaigning for your ‘pick’ for President.

    It is tedious and boring, which is your goal. You have not brought one bit of evidence to the discussion. Wikipedia is nothing but hearsay, as it can be edited by trolls such as yourself. Quoting Wikipedia is, in effect, simply self-quoting.

    Elrod is one of their victims, and judges that they were ‘remorseful’. That means nothing. True remorse would have included the questioning of the belief system that brought about such behavior, as coercion of others by any means necessary is the basis of that belief system. We don’t see that, however, and it reveals the remorse is due to their getting caught, along with having no effect on the outcome of the war. It was a phony revolution by wealthy children dreaming of glory. They are pimples on a dog’s ass, and Barack Obama admires them.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  255. #254
    Would you still classify Ayers an unrepentant terrorist who still wants to bomb more buildings and kill innocent civilians? Or do you believe he is capable and willing to change? Do you also believe that Ayers said he wished he could have bombed more? Is it really what he said?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  256. Oh, and love2008, you should re-read MD’s answer to your comment to me:

    love2008 – Cut the BS talk and provide evidence that Ayers really said he had no regrets.
    MD in Philly – Already done, multiple times, by multiple people, you’ve ignored it.

    Your answer? – My comment #112 was actually directed to Apogee.

    What a convenient way to ignore his response, just as you do any response.

    Quit wasting our time.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  257. love2008, you are avoiding finding out what Ayers and his despicable wife Dohrn have actually said about themselves and their past actions.

    Obviously you know that your silly pretense would collapse if you bothered to see how Ayers’ describes himself. This faux ignorance of yours got old a long time ago.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  258. Would you still classify Ayers an unrepentant terrorist

    Yes.

    The rest of your quote was editorial fluff that does not add to the central question. He may have offered a pseudo-remorseful moment to 1 of the victims of his actions. That does not make his repentant.

    Or do you believe he is capable and willing to change?

    I am quite certain that he has changed. He doesn’t blow things up in order to advance his communist theories any longer. He tries to indoctrinate children.

    Do you also believe that Ayers said he wished he could have bombed more?

    That is not what he said. You distorted the quote. He said he wished that they had done more. Reasonable people can differ on what “done more” could mean. It could mean that he wishes that they had undertaken more successful activities to stop the war. It could mean that he wishes that they had bombed more, since they had done so in the past. I wish someone would jam a microphone in his face and ask him, but that would be expecting too much from the media, and he would likely enjoy the attention. Maybe Baracky should have asked him what he meant when he was chairing Boards with him, or when they were sitting on panels together, or when he was writing a blurb for his book jacket, or when Michelle and Bernadette were working together. We will never know, because the Left does not care, and the MSM will not ask those questions.

    Is it really what he said?

    Nope. You fucked up the quote.

    JD (f7900a)

  259. #255
    I know you hate questions just like you hate being confronted with facts. You like to carry on with your Republican drivel for your “pick”, hoping everyone will accept every BS you shove out here. Well, face the facts. Questions will be asked and facts will continue to overcome lies. Now go walk your cat. (Where have you or anyone disproved my point on this topic? Never mind. more lies.)

    love2008 (1b037c)

  260. After reading #260, it is clear that lovie does not engage in good faith. I was trying to be nice, even civil. I will go back to simply laughing and pointing at lovie.

    JD (f7900a)

  261. Published Sept 11th, 2001.

    So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

    That’s the kind of coy crap that feeds losers like love2008. But it is the kind of crap that tells me what a despicable piece of garbage Ayers is.

    ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    So he is trying to give us a President.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  262. love2008, facts? You would never recognize one.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  263. love2008, you are a troll. You are simply campaigning for Obama on this site, and wasting everyone’s time with demands and accusations that are ignored when answered.

    Don’t get upset, little one, just because everyone is tired of your stupid game.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  264. Ladies and gentlemen, The Bobo cannot reason nor think. It consists of a huge, gelatinous mass of goo that contracts and/or constricts, according to the amount of air intake via it’s blowhole. Or cornhole, depending on your subjective observations.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  265. So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

    What say you, lovie?

    ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    What say you, lovie?

    JD (f7900a)

  266. #259
    I did not F*ck up the quote. I am actually quoting John McCain speaking on a stomp. He said that Ayers said he wished he could have “bombed” more. Or is John McCain lying?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  267. love, I was going to take this opportunity to make some snide, disparaging remark due to your obtuseness.
    However, I think that I shall just ignore you from now on.
    Consider yourself shunned.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  268. love2008, and I supplied Ayers’ own quote.

    Your cowardice dealing with actual facts is noted.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  269. Thanks. I needed a good spank, LOL!

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  270. lovie – As I stated above, in no uncertain terms, that it is reasonable interpretation of Bill Ayers words. Reasonable people could also arrive at a different interpretation, but you are not amongst that group of people.

    You have been posed questions in #266. I await your response. I suspect you will not.

    JD (f7900a)

  271. Was that the good Patricia, or the bad Patricia?

    JD (f7900a)

  272. VDH had this to say today …

    He [Obama] said they have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Mr. Obama began serving in the United States Senate in January 2005″ (New York Times, 10/3)

    Why in the world was Barack Obama still communicating on the phone or via email with Bill Ayers up until 2005 — when in 2001 Ayers gave widely publicized interviews claiming he had no regrets about the bombing, indeed regretted that he had not done enough, and did not necessarily have any remorse either about his Weathermen career?

    Ponder that: the possible next President of the United States, well after 9/11 and in the climate of hourly worry over terrorism here at home, was still friendly and communicating with an associate that had to abandon his book tour due to popular outcry, and was widely quoted as absolutely unrepentant about his terrorism. That is a damning indictment of his judgement — among other things — and it is no “smear” to raise the issue.

    Indeed, there is a disturbing pattern here. Obama’s once-close radical Chicago associates are never jettisoned out of principle, but only at the 11th-hour when they became impediments to Obama’s political career. Thus Wright is defended throughout his racist rantings, until he makes the unfortunate decision of bringing that hatred to DC’s elite nexus at the National Press Club — and only then is immediately dropped, as Obama resigns from Trinity Church. Ditto Ayers. What made Obama cease communciations with Ayers was not the latter’s radicalism (indeed Obama facilitated it by serving with Ayers to dispense millions to questionable organizations), nor even Ayers’ boasts in 2001 of having no regrets about trying to blow up government buildings. Instead, 2005 coincides with Obama’s ascension to the Senate and the plan to begin running for the Presidency — and thus Ayers, like Wright later, became expendable. Ditto Rezko, Pfleger et al.

    JD (f7900a)

  273. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird — it’s a great country.”

    What say you, lovie?

    JD (f7900a)

  274. So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

    It is one’s belief system that begets the actions one takes. In turn the actions directly speak to the belief system in place.

    There is nothing to evidence that Ayers’ philosophy has changed, matured, evolved. Quite the contrary, it has instead become more solidified and more sophisticated although comfortably at home in modern academia and wearing the mask of the mainstream.

    When a person has honestly recognized the awfulness of their actions, it stands to reason that the last thing one would do when questioned about regrets is to be coy. Instead the natural response from an individual who has committed a heinous act and recognizes it for the heinous act it is , is to literally drive the offender to publicly give voice to that regret and seek forgiveness from those they’ve offended. It make absolutely no sense if Ayer’s were truly regretful and repentant to not want to shout it from the rooftops because then one finds peace for their soul and restoration. Unless of course one does not believe what they did was wrong thus they have an untroubled conscience…

    I’ll buy Ayer’s ‘change’ when he asks the American public, whom he deeply and egregiously offended, to forgive him.

    Its telling that he never has.

    Dana (658c17)

  275. ……… the sounds of crickets chirping …….

    JD (f7900a)

  276. That was the good Patricia! And thanks, Dana!

    I guess lovie gave up. Too bad.

    But I just found out more dirt on Annenberg. Sonnie boy funds a human rights” organization that gives movie cameras to Palestinians to film the “abuses” by Israelis.

    So much for Obama’s implication it’s a conservative organization.

    This is fun.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  277. Look, I understand your anger and frustration. Obama is widening his lead and McCain is floundering. All you guys have left is Ayers and all worth not. So all you need to do at least in your heads is to demonize Ayers as much as you can. You are losing, so any argument about Ayers not being as evil as you would like him to be, is perceived as a target for insults. I understand. So I will let you keep your toy. Here, have your Ayers and knock yourselves out. Like a pack of wolves, pounce on any dissenting view point and call yourselves intellectuals.
    And JD, Ayers himself has said his comment has been mis-intepretated. Why don’t you take his word for it? After all if he is as “unrepentant” as some of you love to think, why would he deny it?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  278. Funny, Patricia, the page of your link can’t be found…

    Dana (658c17)

  279. love2008, there is no frustration. You’ve been caught in your brazen dishonesty yet again. You’ve been shown to be a fraud, pretending not to see simple facts with all the acting talent of OJ Simpson in “Capricorn One”.

    Old news.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  280. As I predicted in #271, lovie comes along with #277.

    mis-intepretated

    What was the correct interpretation, so we do not continue to mis-intepretated what he said?

    Why don’t you take his word for it?

    You are fucking kidding, right?

    JD (f7900a)

  281. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird — it’s a great country.”

    ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

    What say you, lovie? I am feeling mighty kind tonight, and thought I would give you another chance.

    JD (f7900a)

  282. Lovie – Answer JD’s question directly instead of dodging it. If you have a link proving Ayers says he was misinterpreted provide it.

    Otherwise, you are just wasting everybody’s time.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  283. Okay. I give up. Ayers is evil. Bill Ayers hates America. He wants to bomb America. he is unrepentant and wishes to do more- bombing. Obama agrees with him that America is evil and needs to be destroyed. They are both terrorists.
    Happy now? Problem is, that bull crap is having no traction with voters. It is the economy, stupid! Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  284. From Spies @ PW

    Ayers is just a guy in his neighborhood.

    Who he worked with on charity boards.

    For several years.

    Funded by Ayers’ grant money and chaired by Obama.

    That, oddly, produced no measurable improvement in education, but somehow managed to spend $150 million dollars.

    Who then had a political “coming out party” for Obama in his home.

    But that was at the request of another politician.

    Still near-strangers here, you see.

    Except that the other politician denies asking for the meeting.

    And, anyway, if there was a long-standing and highly-lucrative relationship between them, Obama certainly didn’t know that he was a terrorist.

    Or, if he did, he thought he’d been “rehabilitated”.

    Or something.

    He’s already answered that question, you see.

    JD (f7900a)

  285. Again, we all predicted it. Lovie enters into any “discussion” in bad faith.

    JD (f7900a)

  286. As the media goes, so goes the public.

    If that were the case, the Democratic candidate would be Lieberman.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  287. Problem is, that bull crap is having no traction with voters. It is the economy, stupid!

    So why are you panicking?

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  288. Who’s Victor Davis Hanson? ROF….

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  289. “Guilty as hell, free as a bird — it’s a great country.”

    ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

    If Ayers is still coming out with statements like this, then, well, F— him, as far as I’m concerned. But this isn’t a referendum on Ayers, it’s ostensibly about whether Obama is “friends” with an “unrepentant terrorist.” I think the answer is pretty clearly, “no.” Furthermore, nobody seems to be alleging that Obama is sympathetic to terrorists. Right? Well, at least not openly.

    So to recap: if Obama’s not friends with this guy, is not sympathetic to his violent causes, what’s the problem again? Is it that he didn’t condemn him outright from the get-go? Is that all we’re talking about here?

    Tom (1e141b)

  290. if Obama’s not friends with this guy, is not sympathetic to his violent causes,

    the problem is that he lied about his associations with ‘the guy’, which disproves your two hopeful suppositions. Otherwise, why lie?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  291. Treach – You have had some outstanding posts recently.

    JD (f7900a)

  292. Hey everybody, “It’s the economy, stupid.”

    You mean the current crisis that was triggered by the collapse of fannie and freddy because they had given way to pressure from litigation intimidation by groups like ACORN and attorney Obama?
    The collapse of fannie and freddie that McCain had tried to prevent but was blocked by Dems, Dems like banking Chairman Dodd who was the only one in the Senate to get more money from freddie and fanny than Sen. Obama?
    You mean that economy?

    You mean that economy, the one even Bill Clinton made clear?

    The thing with Ayers, love, is not that it is the only problem Obama has, and that we have with Obama, but that Ayers is just one of many things about Obama that Obama hasn’t been forthcoming about and the media hasn’t pressed for. For goodness sakes, we knew more about Todd Palin’s political background within a few days of Sarah’s nomination than we still know about Obama’s. We knew more in a week about all of Palin’s previous employment, etc., than we still do about Obama.

    One big error, when Obama ran as a noble, hard working, community organizer, somebody should have looked into just what he did.

    Good night. Carry on JD, Ropelight, AD, Apogee, SPQR, Dmac, daleyrocks, and the rest of the loyal comrades (we might have to get used to that term if things don’t go as we would like).)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  293. Tom – You are far more forgiving than I. Baracky had an ongoing relationship, you say they were not friends, but he admits that they communicated by email and phone until he took office in the Senate in 2005. So, from 2001 when he said the above quotes, and 2005, when Baracky began his run for President, Barack was fine with Ayers. Only when he became a political liability did he claim that Ayers was just a guy in my neighborhood, then someone whose kids went to the same school as my kids, then someone who did some reprehensible things, to someone he assumed had been rehabilitated.

    If you hung out with OJ Simpson, in my eyes, it would speak to your character.

    JD (f7900a)

  294. @290: Apogee, are you saying you think Obama is friends with Ayers? In the real sense of the word? Or are you suggesting that Obama is sympathetic to terrorism?

    If not, then what are we doing here?

    Tom (1e141b)

  295. How do you define friends, Tom?

    Politically, they were certainly friendly.

    JD (f7900a)

  296. Tom, Obama is Ayers’ political protege. Ayers and Obama may have met when both were in New York, or later when Obama was at Sidley Austin, where Ayers’ wife Bernadine Dohrn and Michelle Obama worked.

    Ayers recruited Obama to run the Annenberg challenge with him, and Ayers’ introduced Obama at the start of Obama’s political career – hosted the first fundraiser for Obama.

    And you doubt that they are friends?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  297. #282
    Bill Ayers.
    “The one thing I don’t regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being…. When I say, ‘We didn’t do enough,’ a lot of people rush to think, ‘That must mean, “We didn’t bomb enough shit.”‘ But that’s not the point at all. It’s not a tactical statement, it’s an obvious political and ethical statement. In this context, ‘we’ means ‘everyone.'”[25][26]

    love2008 (1b037c)

  298. Hey, Doc. Have a good night, and congratulations on the Phillies winning tonight (grinding teeth furiously as he stomps on Derek Lowe’s card).

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  299. SPQR – Unless you can produce a picture of Bill Ayers in Baracky’s backyard, grilling burgers and drinking beers in the garden financed by Tony Rezko, Tom will maintain that they were mortal enemies.

    JD (f7900a)

  300. So more people should have bombed shit, not just Bill? Is that what he meant? Its subtle meaning may be obvious to him, but apparently Bill and I do not speak the same language?

    JD (f7900a)

  301. Hey JD…
    OJ and I are not “friends”, but would you like to buy my autographed OJ survival knife, that I won on an 18th-hole calcutta while we were searching for the real killer?

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  302. love2008, you don’t seem to realize that those weasel words do not actually say what you want them to say.

    But that’s not a surprise. You’ve had your ass well spanked and you still pretending otherwise.

    That’s OJ level acting.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  303. Tom – If not, then what are we doing here?

    I know what you’re doing here – asking vague versions of questions that have already been answered.

    In the real sense of the word?
    Try re-phrasing the question so that it isn’t so vague as to mean practically anything.

    are you suggesting that Obama is sympathetic to terrorism?
    I’m not suggesting anything. Barack Obama is suggesting by his associations that he is sympathetic to the ideology of someone who has used explosive devices in the past to further that ideology, and has now switched tactics. I’m simply discussing the implications of his lies about the depth of that relationship. A relationship that travels both directions, by the way. Ayers did not mentor Obama because he liked his outfit. They shared common ideals – the same ones that Obama’s mother reinforced in Barack’s upbringing.

    Obama dumps ‘friends’ when they become liabilities. I would suggest that it is understood, as he only acts when it will endanger his standing.

    Never for reasons of character.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  304. Tom – I think if you skim the thread you will see what we are talking about here. No need to be disingenuous at this point.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  305. Hmm, try this link. This site is acting funny today….

    Shooting Back

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  306. #287
    So why are you panicking?
    Hah! Who is panicking? You make me laugh. Who do you think is panicking now? Think seriously before responding. Your candidate is the one who has reasons to panick. He is desperate and erratic and clutching at straws. That word Palin, I mean panick fits you guys more. But keep talking about Ayers. Who knows, people may just listen and stop worrying about their financial security.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  307. The fucking word is panic, not panick. Good Allah.

    JD (f7900a)

  308. #303
    SPQR. Do you agree at this point that you are dumb and stupid? I have quoted the man’s words in making my argument. But you prefer to ignore it and continue to throw out lunatic and blind talking points. Tedious does not begin to describe what you are becoming here. Try this for once, prove me wrong with better evidence. I have shown you a quote from the man, clarifying his words. His very words! Prove him wrong. I dare you.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  309. love2008,

    From your own quote, Ayers said “a lot of people rush to think, ‘That must mean, “We didn’t bomb enough shit.””

    Maybe a lot of people think that because it’s a logical conclusion based on what he said. I submit Ayers’ subsequent statement was spin because even he realized that bragging about bombing civilians went too far in a post-9/11 world.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  310. Lovey – Ayers clarifying words do not say he regretted not bombing more just that everybody did not do more. Read them again, carefully.

    Why not refrain from commenting unless you have something to contribute. You are hysterical, not in the funny way.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  311. @308: Actually, as Allah will tell you, you need to add a ‘k’ when you using “-ing” so that it’s “panicking” and not “panicing” (pan/i/sing).

    Tom (1e141b)

  312. #1 “Guilty as hell, free as a bird — it’s a great country.”

    #2 ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    #3 So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.

    You kind of, partially, if you look at it from the right angle, in the right light, may have a little bit refuted #2. To me, the tell is not the “we didn’t do enough”, but the “I don’t regret setting bombs”. YMMV

    #1 and #3 remain unanswered.

    JD (f7900a)

  313. #308
    You are right JD. “Panic” it is. Blame it on Jim Treacher. I think I need to take a break at this point. Good night.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  314. Oops. Got all excited about my nerdy ability to teach phonics – then reread the comment in question. Sorry JD. Good night.

    Tom (1e141b)

  315. Tom – In #307, lovie uses panick, as a noun, twice.

    reasons to panick

    I mean panick fits

    JD (f7900a)

  316. And a verb …

    JD (f7900a)

  317. DRJ – Ayers goes on to say – But that’s not the point.

    He doesn’t say I didn’t mean that or that I don’t regret not bombing more. He means that there is larger point, that he regrets that everybody didn’t do more. Subsumed within that larger point is whether or not it could have included more bombing on the part of the Weathermen. He does not clear it up with these sentences.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  318. Lovie – Tucking tail and running? SHOCKA

    Tom – We cross posted. I was hoping you would respond to my prior comments @ 294 & 296.

    JD (f7900a)

  319. daley,

    Thanks for adding that context.

    When did Ayers say love2008’s quote? Was it from the NY Times 9/11 article or a more recent Ayers’ interview?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  320. Bill Ayers.

    The war in Vietnam was not only illegal, it was profoundly immoral, millions of people were needlessly killed. Even though I worked hard to end the war, I feel to this day that I didn’t do enough because the war dragged on for years after the majority of the American people came to oppose it. I don’t think violent resistance is necessarily the answer, but I do think opposition and refusal is imperative.”

    love2008 (1b037c)

  321. millions of people were needlessly killed

    I wonder if he includes the innocent people killed by their bombs?

    I don’t think violent resistance is necessarily the answer, but I do think opposition and refusal is imperative

    How does the portion of the quote that you highlighted help your position, lovie?

    JD (f7900a)

  322. @319:

    JD,

    Frankly, I have a jaded outlook on politics. It’s just not that big of a deal to me that Obama got to know someone sketchy at some point along his political career. I imagine this is true for everybody, even the shining beacon of Honor and Dignity, McCain himself. And I don’t think that you (and others here) are as shocked – shocked! – about all this as you claim.

    That’s why I’m suspicious that the issue isn’t really the issue here. I’m suspicious that “judgment” is simply the excuse, while the main reason to actually bring up Ayers is so that we can circle around for yet another iteration of the Obama/terrorism spin cycle, which, if it sticks, might actually whirl your guy/gal out of defeat.

    But actually, I doubt it. At the end of the day, I don’t think you guys really believe this is a big enough deal either.

    Tom

    Tom (1e141b)

  323. Tom, one of the issues re Ayers, is that Obama skates around it, and that the media is completely incurious about this and other large gaps in Obama’s history.
    Remember, in politics, it is never the crime, it is always the cover-up, that brings someone down.
    We see a lot of cover-up; we’re just asking why?

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  324. And I don’t think that you (and others here) are as shocked – shocked! – about all this as you claim.

    I am not shocked. To me, it is breath taking. It is the biggest single demonstratable indicator that the media is completely in the bag for Baracky. It is a complete and utter failure of vetting on behalf of the Dems and the alleged watchdog, the media. This should not and would not be tolerated in your neighborhood.

    Raise your hand if you have ever even met a person that made bombs and killed people in order to advance a political point.

    JD (f7900a)

  325. Comment by JD — 10/9/2008 @ 10:14 pm

    Hell, JD. Unlike some Senator’s who’ve been forced to visit their dentist to re-soul their shoes, I don’t even know anyone who’s been in prison.

    But, enough with this minor stuff, F-1 practice is on from Mt.Fuji, and I must pay attention, and then off to bed for an early appointment on the morn.

    Another Drew (930ac9)

  326. Why does it now matter that Obama thought Ayers had been rehabilitated if Ayers was “just a guy who lives in my neighborhood?”

    I don’t blame Obama for not moving though. That’s a pretty sweet pad he got for a song.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  327. It’s just not that big of a deal to me that Obama got to know someone sketchy at some point along his political career.

    I agree. But when a candidate’s spiritual life, his professional career, his scholarly writings, and his political allies are all of one mindset, it’s important to the issue of character. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He’s running for president of the United States, not moving into the condo next door. It all goes to how this man will govern.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  328. Obama got to know someone sketchy at some point along his political career.

    Then was picked by that sketchy person (Ayers) to cooperate in funneling 150,000,000 to leftist groups under the guise of ‘education’. After that intense failure, Obama served again with Ayers, and even gave a glowing review of Ayers’ book. Ayers gave a party for Obama’s run for Senate out of Ayers’ house.

    That’s a lot of ‘getting to know’ someone sketchy. When did Obama catch on, and why did he lie about it?

    Apogee (366e8b)


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