Patterico's Pontifications

10/7/2008

Debate Open Thread

Filed under: 2008 Election — Patterico @ 5:49 pm



McCain has to hit Obama on Fannie and Freddie. We’ll see how he does . . .

OK, Obama comes out of the gate with the Big Lie. This is McCain’s moment. He has to HIT HIM HARD.

He dropped the ball. Thank you! Good night!

Now the “fundamentals of the economy are strong” distortion. Which McCain gets no chance to respond to.

Touting his brilliant campaign suspension.

Now McCain is hitting it, as Obama smirks. Finally.

Obama boasts that he wrote a letter.

Not interested in hearing politicians point fingers. Oh really? Isn’t that the first damn thing you did, Sen. Obama?

McCain boasts of his own letter. We don’t care about letters.

Someone says both parties got us into it. Obama, not wanting to point fingers, points fingers.

McCain says Obama hasn’t taken on his party. This is a strong answer. Says Obama is a big spender and he has fought it. Good stuff. He says to look at their records. More like this!

McCain is repeating the argument that he knows how to reach across the aisle. I think this will appeal to independents.

But with every “my friends,” people are drinking all across the country.

Barack Obama wants to use a line-item veto that he doesn’t have. If he were Palin, people would mock him for that.

McCain says he would ask Americans to sacrifice on spending. Good stuff.

McCain says Obama promised to give up his tax program is the economy was bad. Good zinger if it’s true.

Good, impassioned speech from McCain on looking at records. He is repeating this time and time again, and I think it’s a good tactic for independents. He should also be talking about how Congress will be Democratic, so Democrats will be unchecked if Obama is voted in.

Point by point, McCain is doing OK, but overall, I don’t know if he’s shaking things up enough.

Obama says McCain believes in deregulation in every circumstance. The Big Lie again.

Good question from Brokaw: what is the principle by which we decide when to go in and stop a humanitarian crisis? Waffling from Obama.

Obama: Sen. McCain says I’m green behind the ears.

The chief petty officer shakes McCain’s hand. Obama thanking him for his service looks weak compared to McCain’s “I’ve been there” dealings with the vet.

267 Responses to “Debate Open Thread”

  1. What are you going to do for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

    Ed (8d1569)

  2. Beautiful – CNN has the Forehead and Roland Martin.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  3. Total non-answer. Wanna bet BHO is called on it?

    Ed (8d1569)

  4. Maverick bangs on Fannie and Freddie!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  5. jaysus keerist…. Obama back to the so-call “deregulation” lie

    Darleen (187edc)

  6. Hope JMc comes back with BO taking the most money from Fannie and Freddy. Might as well mention Dodd too.

    JVW (f93297)

  7. Obama says he wrote letters to sound the alarm over sub-prime mortgages. I’d like to see those letters. Obama mention them several times, like he wants to be asked. Well, I’m game. Let’s see the letters.

    Ropelight (36617f)

  8. Dammit, I am so tired of the “innocent bystanders” line! I would love JMc to say, “you know, a lot of homeowners behaved irresponsibly too.”

    JVW (f93297)

  9. Barry – GWB is not running. Net spending cuts? Hah!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  10. We will lose because McCain picked Palin for Vice-President. Men don’t like taking orders from women. Women even less.

    nk (f2ee58)

  11. Somebody forgot his American flag lapel pin! He’s a Communist!

    Whoops – it’s McCain! He forgot his lapel pin AGAIN?!

    Wow – he’s getting pretty old and forgetful, isn’t he?

    Can we really trust him to run the United States government?

    Maybe he’s hiding the lapel pin inside his cheek along with the acorns he’s stashed for the winter!

    TriState Soccer (b8c7e2)

  12. For what it’s worth, I’m continuously updating the post.

    Some call it “live-blogging.”

    But I may have to stop what with the need to make dinner for the kids.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  13. So far, BHO is holding his own in the eyes of the average (read: ignorant) voter. 1/3 Done. JSM better start firing the Howitzers.

    Ed (8d1569)

  14. How skinny are the kids?? Can’t they wait?

    WLS (26b1e5)

  15. Should we be drinking every time McCain mentions Lieberman and Russ Feingold?

    He’s pretty forgetful.

    TriState Soccer (b8c7e2)

  16. Notice how BO skipped entitlement reform in his response to what priorities would he have? Yeah, that’s a guy who is going to “spend less money than we are spending today.”

    JVW (f93297)

  17. If this goes over the allotted time, will Rick Davis have to come out and change his Depends on stage?

    TriState Soccer (b8c7e2)

  18. Goddam, here BO goes avoiding entitlements again. What a phony. If it isn’t reformed in the first two years, it will just get lost in the run-up to the 2012 election.

    JVW (f93297)

  19. Reform Social Security and Medicare? Take on entitlements? Obama is going to solve those in his first term! lmao.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  20. I think BO has a little bit of the “too cool” and detachment problem that has arisen from time to time, especially in this format.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  21. Obama told oreilly he would forego tax increases if the economy was bad

    Roberta Schwartz (646bc8)

  22. How can Obama have the federal government “cut” taxes on 95% of Americans, when only about 1/2 of households pay federal income tax at all.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  23. amazing that Brokaw told Obama no on the rebuttal to the rebuttal.

    kimsch (2ce939)

  24. 19 — just not in his first two years.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  25. “Let’s look at our records” is good, but everyone is too busy drinking when he says “my friends” to get it.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  26. Obama seemed a little perturbed by Brokaw saying no to Obama…he must not be used to being told that. Heh.

    Dana (049cf9)

  27. McCain comes off as a good leader when he uses “we” and taking credit for achievements. Saying “I” a lot (like Sen Obama) is the sign of a less-experienced, less-effective leader. This is in like leadership 101 class.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  28. Why in the world doesn’t McCain say, look, tax rates went down, the economy expanded, tax revenues went up, If you want more supply of funds into the govt you keep taxes low and grow the economy.

    Obama tells you that it’s unfair not to tax the rich more. What do you want, some empty claim that things are “more fair” that doesn’t do anybody any good, or do the thing that does everybody good?

    (But to say it better than I just did.)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  29. carlitos, I heard him say it. It’s true.

    kimsch (2ce939)

  30. Obama lies again about nuclear power.

    Pretty good debate but Obama has gotten better since the primaries. Old “can’t drill our way out of the crisis” lie is used.

    I hope McCain will nail that.

    MIke K (d8deba)

  31. True Dana. Hat tip to Brokaw.

    Carlitos, you’re correct, except when it is The One we’ve been waiting for. The One shares credit with nobody.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  32. “Should we fund a Manhattan Project. . . on energy?”

    Yep, let’s take a couple of hundred scientists and sequester them in the Southwest Desert for four years.

    JVW (f93297)

  33. Too much of the same old prattle. McCain has to get going or he’s lost. This debate is a waste of time, so far.

    Ropelight (36617f)

  34. The environment is like the computer? Government scientists investing in new energy?

    Ugh – 3% of oil reserves, and we use 25% of energy, it’s not fair, wah. How much of the food and wealth do we produce?

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  35. The people in Nevada would be shocked that Obama supports nukes. He has run ads continuously on his opposition to Yucca Mountain. Without a storage and reprocessing facility you don’t have any more nukes.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  36. Dare I say, McCain is showing some charm in his banter with Tom. Better than BO’s earlier petulance.

    JVW (f93297)

  37. I want McCain to keep hitting that he does not want anyone to have to have their taxes raised. Great point. Hit it again and again.

    Dana (049cf9)

  38. Oh my God – the government is going to mandate electronic storage of my medical records on computers. What could possibly go wrong?

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  39. Ah yes, that old chestnut “you should have the same health coverage that Congresspeople have.” While we are at it, can we have their office budgets, staff, transportation, expense accounts, etc.?

    JVW (f93297)

  40. Comment by TriState Soccer — 10/7/2008 @ 6:27 pm

    It does not take long for the trolls to show their colors.

    Sen. McCain just seems unwilling to actually punch back against Baracky’s lies. If he doesn’t do so, he might as well just suspend his campaign permanently.

    JD (f7900a)

  41. Wow – McCain sure looked presidential during his incoherent story about nuclear power and green technology!

    TriState Soccer (b8c7e2)

  42. McCain is going to give everyone $5k for health insurance. Next year, of course, it will be $5.5k, then $6k, then $6.6k, then $7.3k, and so on.

    JVW (f93297)

  43. This entire health tax credit, taxation on plan benefits, etc., is wayyyy beyond the ability to simply comprehend. Obama’s plan is not better, but they both sound like idiots trying to explain in simple terms something that simply cannot be explained that way.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  44. Good rebuttal McCain on government doing this and that, government mandates. Good use of the 95% number on the tax credit.

    Hair transplants = heh.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  45. WLS – good point. I just explained the difference between tax credit and tax cut to my 16 year old. is response – McCain whistles when he talks.

    Surprise – Obama thinks health care is a “right.” Adios, constitution.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  46. Great difference between the two candidates: Obama says healthcare is a “right,” McCain says it is a “responsibility.” I know which vision I agree with.

    Where in the Constitution does it tell me that healthcare is one of my rights?

    JVW (f93297)

  47. Health insurance – right or responsibility? Shocka. McCain, responsibility. Obama, right. Therein lies the great gulf between the two men and their overall philosophies.

    Dana (049cf9)

  48. Insurance companies cheat !!!!!!!!

    JD (f7900a)

  49. His response.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  50. Barack’s mother’s arguing with insurance companies would be tame compared with her having to argue with government health care officials about treatment.

    eaglewingz08 (98291e)

  51. heh. 3 6:58’s… right minds think alike…

    Dana (049cf9)

  52. They don’t give me the fine print? I got loads of fine print.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  53. If you asked Baracky if gun ownership is a right, he would say no.

    JD (f7900a)

  54. The Ohio “undecided voters” being monitored by CNN — the women — went off the charts for Obama’s health care answer. Its a good issue for him to demagogue on the campaign trail, but it’ll be a loser if he manages to win.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  55. I wish McC was as articulate about American military power as Sarkozy was.

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  56. Blessed are the peacemakers.

    eaglewingz08 – good point. My time in the UK taught me this lesson well.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  57. eaglewingz wrote: Barack’s mother’s arguing with insurance companies would be tame compared with her having to argue with government health care officials about treatment.

    Excellent point!

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  58. Do we have to pay for BO’s future lung cancer since he chose to be a smoker for over two decades?

    JVW (f93297)

  59. “on the job training” – I think that Hillary! said something about that.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  60. how are children cheaper to insure? they have well child visits, vaccines, have to get a doctor certificate to go back to school after illnesses.

    kimsch (2ce939)

  61. We’re from the government. And we’re here to help.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  62. Bankers all go to Delaware? For the banking conditions?

    And who’s from Delaware?

    kimsch (2ce939)

  63. Did BO just say he’d go into Sudan?

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  64. How old was Obama when his mother died? What was he doing at the time, organizing the community, or going to Harvard Law? What did he do to help his mother? Did he provide help, or did he have other priorities?

    Ropelight (36617f)

  65. Brilliant response by BHO – “I don’t understand….”

    Damnit.

    C’mon, John. FIRE AT WILL. FIRE FOR EFFECT.

    Ed (8d1569)

  66. How does the government having more money help “put people back to work?” Boy, can you tell that he’s from Chicago. The whole country will have wrought iron fences and flower pots.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  67. Killing Jews and Gypsies in 30s, bad. Killing Rwandans in the 90s, bad. Killing Iraqis under Saddam Hussein, eh.

    JVW (f93297)

  68. It’s a good thing that we and France kicked Hezbollah out of France!

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  69. OK, let’s review: Don’t go to Iraq, where the regime didn’t threaten us although they were seeking nukes and biding their time while UN sanctions expired, but go to Sudan, Rwanda, and the Congo.

    I guess BO hasn’t seen Black Hawk Down.

    I suppose people who object to his plans are racists.

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  70. It’s a good thing that we and France kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, so we can get Sudan fixed!

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  71. “Health Care” — a right.

    “Health Insurance” — a responsibility.

    The entire population of this country has “Health care” because the law obligates hospitals to treat anyone who arrives, regardless of ability to pay.

    We may not have the best delivery system for health care services to the poor, but that’s not a basis for creating a “right” to insurance to be provided by the gov’t.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  72. Aha! He mentioned Mogadishu, a victory according to some leftists.

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  73. “Cool Hand at the tiller” – McCain has got his mind right.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  74. Baracky has no compunction about just saying whatever it is he hopes people want to hear. He had the audacity to say that his plans will have a net spending decrease earlier.

    McCain has had a few good jabs, but he ain’t going to win like this.

    JD (f7900a)

  75. ATTACK POCKEEEESTAWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    JD (f7900a)

  76. Pah-istahn is Kerry-esque. I know it’s correct, but 16-year-old is correcting him “pakistan” heh.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  77. Pakistan question vs. Cambodia experience should be tee-d up for McCain to crush.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  78. I am sure that the Tollybon is quaking in their boots right now.

    JD (f7900a)

  79. WLS: We may not have the best delivery system for health care services to the poor, but that’s not a basis for creating a “right” to insurance to be provided by the gov’t.

    I believe BO prefaced his mother’s story with “a country as rich as ours…” Dude, ain’t you been paying attention the past couple of weeks?

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  80. now he’s correcting “Tahl-ee-bahn” to taliban (hold your nose to hear it right) My kid is killing me. BHO is losing midwest with these correct pronunciations.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  81. Obama just said he wants to put more troops in Afghanistan to put pressure on the government of Afghanistan but has repeatedly said that timetables to remove troop from Iraq is what is needed to put pressure on the Iraqi government to step up to their responsibilities better?

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  82. McCain is doing alright, but he should be throwing haymakers, instead of jabs.

    JD (f7900a)

  83. Report today that the Taliban is beginning to enter into negotiations with the Afghani government. BO wants us to believe that somehow means that al Qaeda is “more powerful than they have been since 2001.” Cause, you know, al Qaeda would want the Taliban to make overtures. It clearly can’t be because the Taliban sees that al Qaeda is on the losing side.

    JVW (f93297)

  84. Sheesh, Obama is astonishingly dishonest. I don’t think I’ve seen someone reverse his own positions and dare you to call him a liar like this since Clinton.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  85. Senor Klompus – You say tomato, I say painfully naive and aggressively ignorant.

    JD (f7900a)

  86. carlitos: Pah-istahn is Kerry-esque. I know it’s correct, but 16-year-old is correcting him “pakistan” heh.

    I work next to a PDS-sufferer who called Palin an “ignoramus” because she said “Ir-ran” instead of “Ir-rahn” and “new-q-ler” instead of “new-cle-ur.” I asked her where Islamabad was. She said “Pak-i-stan.” I answered, “Obama says ‘Pok-e-stahn.’ Does that mean you’re an ignoramus?”

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  87. “Thank you very much.” Classic.

    JVW (f93297)

  88. “I want a follow-up” – “bomb bomb bomb Iran” – he’s coming off like (more of) a jerk.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  89. First it was invade Pockeeeestawn, but only when Bin Laden is in our sights. 2 minutes later, it is invade Pockeeeeeestawn if Pockeeeeeeeestawn is not chasing down Bin Laden.

    JD (f7900a)

  90. BHO didn’t lose. Therefore, JSM lost big.

    This is going to be an entirely depressing week.

    Ed (8d1569)

  91. L.N. (#86) — as PJ O’Rourke said, “Eisenhower pronounced it ‘new-q-ler’ and all he did is win the Second World War.”

    JVW (f93297)

  92. Pok-e-stahn…Pok-e-mon…

    Dana (049cf9)

  93. The fact is that Obama’s mother was in a hospital and was being treated for her cancer. It was terminal and she didn’t die because of what her insurance company did or didn’t do.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  94. McCain knows how to get bin Laden? Do tell, Senator.

    Alan (c61d4e)

  95. WLS – Are you saying that Baracky is trading on the death of his mother for political points?

    JD (f7900a)

  96. Alan (#94), Joe Biden is going to show him where the ground fire targeted his helicopter.

    JVW (f93297)

  97. Earlier, Baracky said he wrote a letter to Bernacke in either 2003 or 2005 warning of the impending financial crisis. When did Bernacke take office?

    JD (f7900a)

  98. “Do tell, Senator.
    Did you cover your ears or leave the room for the rest of his sentence?

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  99. JD (#97), I had the same thought. I think BO’s exact quote was “two years ago,” which if you give him some wiggle room could be anything from 30 months to 18 months. Haven’t looked up Bernacke yet.

    JVW (f93297)

  100. McSamey McPlanecrash’s Russia answer was pretty good. Audience looked like he was talking over their heads though.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  101. Bernacke did not take office until 2007.

    Did you know that Baracky anticipated the Georgian situation before it happened?

    JD (f7900a)

  102. Carlitos (#100), how could that be? Everyone knows the Dems are the party of intellectuals. At least some of that group had to have been Belmont faculty.

    JVW (f93297)

  103. Great, let’s rebuild the economies of the Russian satellites. Never mind that they all have much faster growth rates than we do.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  104. I thought that Estonia has a booming economy right now thanks to aggressive free-market policy, and Obama says we need to provide financial help for them to rebuild their economy? With the money that he says we’re spending too much of overseas?

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  105. Other than Sarah Palin, John McCain hasn’t got any more horsepower than did Bob Dole. I’m not a happy camper tonight.

    Ropelight (36617f)

  106. Just in case all of you missed it, healthcare is a Constitutional Right under Baracky.

    JD (f7900a)

  107. I hope that McCain broke a rule when he patted Terry on the back, and I hope the Obama campaign is dumb enough to complain about it.

    JVW (f93297)

  108. Great and gracious of McCain thank the retired Navy chief… very nice. Obama cannot follow that without looking trite…

    Dana (049cf9)

  109. A right. Not a responsibility. Not a privilege. A right. Like free speech. The right to bear arms. And the right to take the services of another for your benefit.

    JD (f7900a)

  110. Ropelight (#105), this isn’t about debating points, it’s about how likable and admirable they seem to the mushmind, er, undecided voter. By that account, I think McCain is doing well.

    JVW (f93297)

  111. “anticipate them before they happen” as opposed to anticipating things after they happen.

    kimsch (2ce939)

  112. Baracky’s foreign policy answers are so incredibly superficial for a Presidential candidate. He speaks in the debate no differently than he does in his campaign stump speech.

    JD (f7900a)

  113. JD, yep, we did pick up on it. Go back to about comment 45 for some of our comments.

    JVW (f93297)

  114. Obama’s body language is just fantastic. Very presidential. Those hand gestures are great.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  115. I’m sure glad all that Fannie Mae money Obama got was able to pay the cost of a stamp to get that letter to go back in time.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  116. McCain is shooting sparks tonight but he is slow, steady, consistent, calm and poised. I think that plays well in trying to convey reliability and stability.

    Dana (049cf9)

  117. Iran – If you do not change your behavior, there will be dire consequences. We will write you a sternly worded letter. Or we will talk to you.

    JD (f7900a)

  118. Obama seems unaware that we have been talking to Iran this whole time.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  119. Yep, JD, Obama’s foreign policy understanding is just another way in which he fails to exceed even Palin’s qualifications.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  120. is shooting sparks… should be is not

    Dana (049cf9)

  121. Did Obama just basically speak in favor of what has been exactly our policy toward Iran for the past umpteenth years?

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  122. carlitos, Obama is not unaware of it, he’s just lying yet again.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  123. I thought he was going to anticipate these challenges before they happened?

    Oh God, this answer is horrid. He pivoted from what he didn’t know to his mother’s food stamps. He is a PR man’s wet dream.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  124. JD (#117), per SPQR (#115), yes, but he will back-date it.

    JVW (f93297)

  125. Baracky is running against Bush, and McCain just allows that comparison to stand unanswered.

    JD (f7900a)

  126. We need fundamental change. Not socialism.

    JD (f7900a)

  127. What I don’t know is what we all don’t know – that was good, and he actually answered the question. More spin from McCain, to answer Obama’s spin. Not too shabby.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  128. Baracky said we would not give the U.N. veto power over the use of our armed forces. What? How are we going to get the respect of the world back if we don’t submit to their will?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  129. No questions on social issues.

    No opening to bring up Ayers.

    Probably not a bad thing with Ayers. Its percolating now, and the issue may be more ripe in a week or two. The reference might have more impact when more people are familiar with the issue.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  130. McCain pulled too many punches.

    JD (f7900a)

  131. While McCain was seeking Obama out to shake hands, Wolfie says it’s apparent that Sen. McCain has some disdain for Sen. Obama and that was apparent during the debate.

    What a bullshit meme that will be all over the news tomorrow.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  132. Andrea Mitchell just had the nerve to say that the American public may not be willing to let the government have more involvement in the economy, yet she is a cheerleader for Baracky, national healthcare, etc …

    JD (f7900a)

  133. McCain did a fine job of appealing to the Ted Kennedy wing of the Republican party.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  134. Why doesn’t McCain, or even Brokaw, ask that mendoucheous little man exactly what deregulation it was that caused the current financial situation. I want to know specifically which deregulations are responsible.

    JD (f7900a)

  135. Anyone watching C-SPAN? They are showing the Obamas working the room, meeting everyone, posing for pictures, signing autographs. They are not showing the McCains. I hope they didn’t jam out of there, but, alas, it appears that they did. Hopefully this won’t be commented upon, but it sure is a strategically smart move by BO.

    JVW (f93297)

  136. JD (#125), yes, and so did Sarah Palin. It is painfully obvious that the political consultants told JMc & SP that it was a fool’s errand to get caught up in defending the Bush Administration. I don’t know how the incessant attacks play with the moderates.

    JVW (f93297)

  137. Not a good night for McCain. He did his best though. But I think again, Obama takes the night. We will wait to see the people’s verdict.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  138. Folks. I want to be optimistic. But, I am not. McCain absolutely fucking refuses to punch back, and let’s Baracky lie, and exaggerate, and lie. He seems stuck in this collegial Senator mode. Barack Hussein Obama is going to be our next President and we will be well and truly fucked.

    JD (f7900a)

  139. Cool, JD, a terrorist’s protege as President.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  140. Where in the hell in the Constitution is the “right” for healthcare? This is amazing (and utterly telling) answer from Obama.

    Happy Gilmore (1bb934)

  141. #137
    Amen, JD! Amen. (Except for the part where you said we will be F**ked for it.)
    Racist!

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  142. Ain’t what I want, SPQR. You know that. But we spent 8 years watching Bush not defend himself, and now McCain refuses to take simple and obvious shots at Baracky, after gross distortions and lies about current issues.

    JD (f7900a)

  143. What I never want to hear again:

    McCain saying “my friends.” It’s patronizing and makes him sound old.

    Obama saying “and.” Every answer is a boring sentence that never ends.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  144. Yep, JD, I’m as frustrated as you are.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  145. Painful to watch. Obama did not screw up and McCain did not break out. So, I am afraid that leaves Obama the winner and a lot closer to the oval office.

    What is going to be fun to watch, four years from now, is how President Obama is going to tie the, by then, totally destroyed economy to President Bush while he runs for re-electon.

    Huey (3990bf)

  146. Healthcare is a right, but the fuckin’ 2nd Amendment is not an individual right? I would be intersted to know how many times Baracky said the word “fair” tonite. Hell, McCain does not even do a good job defending tax cuts, or even maintaining current tax levels. He is the statist that I did not like in the primaries, and now the only real difference between them is taxes, in theory, and foreign policy. When it comes to entitlements, healthcare, immigration, etc … there is little difference between them. McCain turns to government first, but at least he lubes you up first.

    JD (f7900a)

  147. It’s over. McCain is toast.

    thebronze (90b755)

  148. Every job I’ve ever taken you only had a couple of months to blame things on the previous guy. 6 months max. That’s why 9/11 was truly on Bush’s watch, no matter what he said. Obama will never sell that story 4 years later.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  149. What is going to be fun to watch, four years from now, is how President Obama is going to tie the, by then, totally destroyed economy to President Bush while he runs for re-electon.

    Huey, the Dems said that economic woes of 1937-39 were attributable to Herbert Hoover, four years after he had left office, so never underestimate their ability to spin their garbage through a pliant media.

    JVW (f93297)

  150. I was kind of hoping that someone would get kicked in the teeth tonight, but Brokaw did a masterful job of not discussing abortion, guns, the Constitution, Judges, or any social issues that I can recall from any of the debates. So far, we have heard 2 Senators talking about what government can do for the people. No restraint.

    JD (f7900a)

  151. DRJ, my non-friend, McCain IS old. Very old. Older than dirt. But that’s not his real problem.
    And I’ll shake hands on that.
    He just got his lunch money removed by someone who took a higher road and simply let him be crotchety. Let the munchkins chatter away here to the contrary.
    And let the snap polls and the following polls speak.
    Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ya.

    Larry Reilly (d11f9a)

  152. Agreed JD (#149). The closest we came to an authentic moment was the question on whether health care was a right, privilege, or responsibility. The candidates gave starkly different answers and Brokaw — if he were interested in delving into their governing philosophies instead of the superficial stuff — could have pressed both men more on this. Alas, he moved on.

    JVW (f93297)

  153. One minute you people say Obama is a communist, the next a secret Islamic fundamentalist, and the next a product of the corrupt Chicago machine. Why don’t you pick one and run with it? At least you’d lose the contradictions.

    “McCain absolutely fucking refuses to punch back,”
    He can’t punch back. He’s got nuthin’.
    He called himself “The Greatest Deregulator”
    He’s on got advisor says cut medicaid! Another says everybody’s got health insurance: the emergency room! No joke that’s what he said. And the third was on Fannie’s payroll until last month!
    And what was Carly’s golden parachute? 45 million!

    And still Fannie and Freddie are not at the center of this economic collapse. That claim has been pretty well stomped on at this point. Unregulated swaps.
    And yes the democrats sold us all out on that one too. Attack Clinton all you want. I’m hoping Obama does better.

    And by the way SERVING US MILITARY HAVE GIVEN MORE TO OBAMA THAN MCCAIN. He’s got a slew of respected and depressingly mainstream intelligence advisors amd Chuck Hagel’s wife just endorsed him (or maybe she’s doing it tomorrow-it was announced today)
    He’s EVIL! He’s the antichrist!!

    goodnight (a273a1)

  154. goodnight, are you in a strawman bowling league, or just stupid. Wait, CAPSLOCK indicator tells me it’s the latter.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  155. I bought a house two years ago that, after a while I came to realize carried a mortgage that was too much for me in addition to being just “too much house”. Recognizing my error in judgment, I put my house up for sale and waited and waited. I paid my bills, tightened my budget and finally found a buyer.
    I actually took a loss in order to move into a small condo that was more affordable. It sucked, but I learned a lesson as a novice in real estate deals. That’s life.
    In January I am shipping out for basic training to go into the Army Reserve. I am doing what I have to do to make sure that that mortgage is paid while I am away at basic and advanced training for 25 weeks. It’s requiring some careful planning, but I’m doing it so that personal finances don’t stand in the way of my desire to serve.
    Question – what the F is the government going to do for me? Huh? Come on? Do something FOR me! I deserve it, right? Come on government! Fix my problem! I want the President to DO something FOR me. GOD ALMIGHTY! I can’t imagine having that mentality at all, and yet there are people in all walks of life who think nothing of believing that the government will take care of every serious decision they have to make and fix every damn problem they face. What the hell…

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  156. You are an interesting one, goodnight. You show up here at comment 151, make unsubstantiated allegations in a semi-coherent fashion and burn up the exclamation point key on your computer. Question for you: were you directed to come and comment on this blog by your overlords at Kos or DU, or did you manage to find it yourself?

    JVW (f93297)

  157. Bless you, Future Reservist Jack Klompus, all I can tell you is that not being a vassal of the government is its own reward.

    JVW (f93297)

  158. “My Friends…”
    I remember this as a parady on FDR (at least I think it was FDR’s personae as typified by the “Falla” speech) by Red Skelton, with a character called “San Fernando Red”.
    He always led off everything by saying:
    “My friends, and I know you are my friends, because I know who my friends are….”

    And Yes, McCain should find another line; it’s just, he can’t!

    If you want to invest in some good short-term growth industries, I would buy anything in the arms/ammunition/outdoors fields. These will be good until they’re nationalized.

    AOracle (d30543)

  159. The 2nd Amendment states that you have the right to bear arms, but that doesn’t mean that the government has to supply you with arms. So even accepting Obama’s contention of a non-enumerated right regarding healthcare, there is no following necessity for the government to supply healthcare at no cost.

    How McCain can miss this, along with many other simple mistakes is a huge error. Obama is terminally weak, and McCain is unable to point this out.

    How about Obama’s contention that Delaware is a hotbed of Credit Card Company Corruption? Does that imply anything about his choice for VP?

    And what about McCain’s ‘taking on his own party’ theme? Obama handed him that one by mentioning that the majority of the last 8 years have been under the complete control of the Republicans. McCain simply had to take that and agree with him in practice, but disagree on the principle. Then state that the principle is that any party with unchecked power is bad for America, and that is why you should not vote for Obama, as it would be a ‘repeat’ of the worst of that last eight years. Only a Maverick plays that kind of chicken.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  160. Comment by Future Reservist Jack Klompus — 10/7/2008 @ 8:24 pm

    Jack, one thing you’ll have going for you is the Soldiers and Sailors Act, and how it will give you some protection from some of the civil litigation crap that goes around.

    Thank you for your Service!

    AOracle (d30543)

  161. Healthcare is a “right.”

    So, when is King Obama declaring my eldest daughter, an RN, a slave and confiscating her labor in order to fulfill all those “rights” of everyone else?

    Darleen (187edc)

  162. John McCain’s greatest problem is his age. He looked rusty, grumpy and petty. Not commanding and charming. Obama, he looked suave, confident, fresh and articulate. The numbers are already coming in. Obama the clear winner on all points except one. Is this the beginning of the end?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  163. I think Obama’s view of military use is simply the default mode of the Democrats in general; oppose use of force in the battles we are in while talking tough about the battles they say we should have fought instead.

    Tonight, as in the last few days, McCain has been more aggressive, but too much of this bipartisan stuff still and he’s not good at hammering the point home. We don’t want bipartisan, American’s don’t want bipartisan. We first want a non-partisan clean out of everybody who should go.

    It’s curious to see what gets traction and what doesn’t. I thought McCain made a real good point in how are you going to trust Afghanistan to somebody who was wrong on how to turn things around in Iraq, but for some reason the blow was only glancing.

    On Pakistan, Obama says his little piece, McCain should have said, “You’re not getting it even now. Every time you say that you will violate Pakistan’s borders if necessary, like you just did 30 seconds ago, you’re giving a talking point to Al Jezeera for the sake of a cheap political point, wise up!”

    Health care. I agree with McCain’s answer of responsibility. I think he could/should have contrasted it with being a right. Having a right to have something provided becomes an entitlement. Some one thought people were entitled to get mortgages whether they could afford them or not.

    That said, most everything else about health care is just not being honest. Cars cost more today than 50 years ago because they perform much better, have more features, etc. The cost of the car is a balance between what people will pay and what the company can produce. With health care you get the outside player of an insurance company, be it private or governmental. When the insurance company has its own short-term priorities for profit that don’t align completely with either the patient or the doctor things get messy.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  164. AOracle – thank you so much for that information. I am looking over that legislation now as per your advice. I greatly appreciate the heads up.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  165. “You are an interesting one, goodnight. You show up here at comment 151, make unsubstantiated allegations in a semi-coherent fashion”
    All well documented.
    Use google, it won’t take long. You’ll end up at the NY Times or maybe even the Wall Street Journal.
    Just for fun search for this quote

    “the greatest deregulator you will ever interview”
    just cut and paste it.

    goodnight (again) (a273a1)

  166. I think Obama’s view of military use is simply the default mode of the Democrats in general; oppose use of force in the battles we are in while talking tough about the battles they say we should have fought instead.

    Amen, MD. Don’t forget that the use of force is more acceptable to them when our own interests are not at stake.

    JD (f7900a)

  167. MD – Some one thought people were entitled to get mortgages whether they could afford them or not.

    I forgot about that one as well – an obvious follow up is the juxtaposition of the current economic crisis with that of the future medical one. Government mandating healthcare for purposes of ‘fairness’, with no ties to the financial equations involved.

    The question is “do you want the same people who just gave you a financial meltdown in charge of medicine?”

    Apogee (366e8b)

  168. goodnight – What specific deregulation led to the sub-prime lending mess and current financial crisis?

    JD (f7900a)

  169. Apogee is right, way to the right, about the right to arm bears, or whatever. Darned-you-betcha-gosh-fer-sure we should put much more money and law behind giving everyone a gun so they can shoot everyone else, if necessary, and, thanks to the convenience of it all, shoot themselves, or their family members when they’re feeling kinda punk.
    How dare someone want to put more emphasis on the possibility of keeping the less wealth-building of us in this less-wealthy America healthy….. when we should be concerned with pumping bullets into each other? Now that’s healthy (btw, soy products are now so yesteryear). If what’s-his-name I’m pissed at is dead, then I’m stronger, I mean healthier.
    Huzzah.

    Larry Reilly (d11f9a)

  170. goodnight, on this site we generally provide links to our allegations. That is what blogging is all about. No, I’m not going to take your word for it, nor am I going to be your research assistant.

    JVW (f93297)

  171. Any zingers tonight, my friends?

    Myself. I thought McCain’s walk quietly and carry a big stick followed by the bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran retort was pretty significant.

    jharp (2282bb)

  172. Here is the text of Baracky’s famous letter to Sec. Paulson.

    You will note that nowhere in this letter does he warn of the impending financial crisis. He does complain that people that got loans that they should not have ever gotten, might be foreclosed upon when they do not pay. Methinks Baracky has been “embellishing” his foresight on this issue. SHOCKA

    Dear Chairman Bernanke and Secretary Paulson,

    There is grave concern in low-income communities about a potential coming wave of foreclosures. Because regulators are partly responsible for creating the environment that is leading to rising rates of home foreclosure in the subprime mortgage market, I urge you immediately to convene a homeownership preservation summit with leading mortgage lenders, investors, loan servicing organizations, consumer advocates, federal regulators and housing-related agencies to assess options for private sector responses to the challenge.

    We cannot sit on the sidelines while increasing numbers of American families face the risk of losing their homes. And while neither the government nor the private sector acting alone is capable of quickly balancing the important interests in widespread access to credit and responsible lending, both must act and act quickly.

    Working together, the relevant private sector entities and regulators may be best positioned for quick and targeted responses to mitigate the danger. Rampant foreclosures are in nobody’s interest, and I believe this is a case where all responsible industry players can share the objective of eliminating deceptive or abusive practices, preserving homeownership, and stabilizing housing markets.

    The summit should consider best practice loan marketing, underwriting, and origination practices consistent with the recent (and overdue) regulators’ Proposed Statement on Subprime Mortgage Lending. The summit participants should also evaluate options for independent loan counseling, voluntary loan restructuring, limited forbearance, and other possible workout strategies. I would also urge you to facilitate a serious conversation about the following:

    What standards investors should require of lenders, particularly with regard to verification of income and assets and the underwriting of borrowers based on fully indexed and fully amortized rates.

    How to facilitate and encourage appropriate intervention by loan servicing companies at the earliest signs of borrower difficulty.

    How to support independent community-based-organizations to provide counseling and work-out services to prevent foreclosure and preserve homeownership where practical.

    How to provide more effective information disclosure and financial education to ensure that borrowers are treated fairly and that deception is never a source of competitive advantage.

    How to adopt principles of fair competition that promote affordability, transparency, non-discrimination, genuine consumer value, and competitive returns.

    How to ensure adequate liquidity across all mortgage markets without exacerbating consumer and housing market vulnerability.

    Of course, the adoption of voluntary industry reforms will not preempt government action to crack down on predatory lending practices, or to style new restrictions on subprime lending or short-term post-purchase interventions in certain cases. My colleagues on the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs have held important hearings on mortgage market turmoil and I expect the Committee will develop legislation.

    Nevertheless, a consortium of industry-related service providers and public interest advocates may be able to bring quick and efficient relief to millions of at-risk homeowners and neighborhoods, even before Congress has had an opportunity to act. There is an opportunity here to bring different interests together in the best interests of American homeowners and the American economy. Please don’t let this opportunity pass us by.

    Sincerely,

    U.S. Senator Barack Obama

    JD (f7900a)

  173. Larry Reilly – Just like everything else in your confused existence, you have the meaning of my comment completely backwards.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  174. Mary Reilly – That little thing called the Constitution … the words, they are too big for you, aren’t they?

    JD (f7900a)

  175. This election in a nutshell: a war hero Senator, a blowhard Senator, a car salesman Senator, and Palin. I’m voting for Palin.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  176. Larry Reilly (#167), I’m stealing from PJ O’Rourke again, but yes, why don’t we borrow liberals’ plans for sex ed and give all teenagers guns and mandatory training in how to use them. After all, history has told us that teenagers (especially boys) are going to shoot each other anyway. We might as well make sure they are doing it as safely and efficiently as possible. We will tell them about the potential side effects, but we’ll also be sure to give them the [wink, wink] details on how enjoyable it can be. We can always mention to them that abstaining from shooting each other is an option, but let’s not be so backwards as to make that the focus of the lesson.

    JVW (f93297)

  177. Larry, you don’t have to worry that the gummint is going to give you a gun. Even in its’ infinite stupidity, it knows you are completely incapable of the effective use of arms.
    Those of us who enjoy time in the woods, interfacing with large North American game animals, on the other hand, are well acquainted with the proper, and effective, use of arms.
    You can rest assured that we will protect your candy-ass from the boogy-man; unless, of course, you start spouting your usual line of drivel, whereas we will have to terminate you with extreme prejudice.

    digusted (d30543)

  178. JD (#169), over at The Corner on NRO, there was an item (from Jonah Goldberg, I think) saying that letter was from March 2007. The first wave of trouble hit the mortgage and housing markets in February of that year, so rather than being prescient and visionary, Obama’s letter was merely reacting to the headlines of the day.

    JVW (f93297)

  179. One more thing Obama needs to overcome is people’s perception about race. He needs not to feed it.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  180. My Great-grandfather ran for Governor of Pennsylvania in the Dem primary in 1934. I am certain that he would be embarassed to see what his party has become.

    JD (f7900a)

  181. DRJ – #172 – I have to agree. Palin’s the only one who isn’t part of the problem.

    Whether or not she’s the solution is something only time will tell, but our voting decisions are similar.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  182. One more thing Obama needs to overcome is people’s perception about race.

    Then maybe he, and his campaign, should quit calling everyone racists.

    JD (f7900a)

  183. Comment by love2008 — 10/7/2008 @ 8:49 pm

    That would be impossible for someone with his political, and philosophical background.

    Race is his being, without it he is not even an empty suit.

    AOracle (d30543)

  184. One more thing I would have liked to see, but probably not the time or context for it:

    When Obama talked about the Iraq surplus and their need to take more responsibility-
    McCain, “You have talked about how our standing has gone down in the world. I’ll tell you why- when we went into Iraq to free the Iraqi people from a tyrant and remove a dangerous regime, which had been our policy since 1998, there was all kinds of crap from those within our own country of how we were just going in for the oil, that we were going to occupy and control the country. Here we are, several years later, demonstrating that our intent was to free the Iraqi people and remove a dangerous tyrant and not to take their oil, and all you can do is complain about it instead of shaming those who slandered our intent and made it more difficult!”

    But that would look too much like defending the Bush administration, I guess, and since he never did a good job of it himself doubt it would be helpful now.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  185. JVW – People had been warning about a potential foreclosure crisis for a long time before that, yes. I thought what was interesting in that letter, which is trumpeted by Baracky as his visionary moment in this financial crisis, is that he makes no reference to a looming financial crisis, but is just worried about people being foreclosed on. His characterization of that letter is brazen in its dishonesty.

    JD (f7900a)

  186. MD – Again, amen, brother. That would be asking for waaaaaaaaaaaay too much at this point.

    JD (f7900a)

  187. The CNN instant poll just called it for Obama, 54-30.

    That, my friends, is a solid loss for John Sidney McCain.

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  188. Both candidates repeated the same talking points from the first debate. Neither has recalibrated his policies and proposals to the challenges of the current global economic panic.

    gp (19ad5d)

  189. “I have to agree. Palin’s the only one who isn’t part of the problem.”

    “I’m voting for Palin.”

    God help us. Have you lost your minds?

    We might disagree on McCain or Obama and your solution is to vote for the most dimwitted, idiotic,
    hiding from questions after the most embarrassing display of stupidity ever witnessed from the Couric interviews.

    No wonder our country is bankrupt.

    jharp (2282bb)

  190. McCain has started tottering around like a penguin in his old age.

    We should all chip in to get him a tiny little old-fashioned tuxedo with tails – and maybe a top hat and cane. He could dress up like a penguin for the next debate! Kids will love it!

    “I stand before you, my friends, dressed like a penguin.”

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  191. The question is “do you want the same people who just gave you a financial meltdown in charge of medicine?”

    Comment by Apogee — 10/7/2008 @ 8:39 pm

    A resounding no. No. And no.

    We intend to throw the republicans out.

    jharp (2282bb)

  192. Yeah Metacom, and then we can dress up like “revolutionaries” and play internet dissident! I think I saw a machine for you to go rage at – bring your kaffiyeh and your Crass albums.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  193. Metacom is still fighting the injustices that the white man hath unleashed at Plymouth Rock.

    JD (f7900a)

  194. What do you think McCain’s secret plan to get bin Laden is? It’s too bad that he’s chosen not to share it with Bush up until now. Maybe we could have taken bin Laden out 7 years ago if we only knew about McCain’s plan!

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  195. This wasn’t the year for McCain. He didn’t see the present economic crisis coming. Or maybe he did but hoped it wasn’t going to affect him like it is. Choosing Palin was one of the fundamental blunders of his campaign. He would have done better with Romney. Atleast he has some experience with economics. He has run something and Americans will look over McCain and vote for him on the economic issues because of Romney. But Palin? What does she bring? Or what has she cost him?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  196. Metacom – We are still waiting for Kerry’s secret plan to win the war.

    JD (f7900a)

  197. But Meta going after Osama would be like imperialist warmongering wouldn’t it. Now let’s put bandanas over our faces and throw rocks at windows at the next G-8. That would be like so f’n radical.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  198. Metacom

    Did O! ever tell what his “fine” is for those uppity families that don’t get the correct insurance?

    You know, people can go years, years without seeing either a doctor or the inside of a hospital and are a-ok.

    go a few weeks without food and :::poof::: we are burying that person

    Yet, is food a “right”?

    So where in hell does Barry/Alinky/Ayers/Marx/Mao/et al get off trying to confiscate the labor of doctors and nurses in order to fulfill everyone else’s “right” of healthcare?

    Darleen (187edc)

  199. Jack Klompus,

    Thank you for your service and your responsible attitude.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  200. Comment by Metacom — 10/7/2008 @ 9:00 pm

    John McCain’s lack of body grace has a lot more to do with his war injuries than his age.
    Perhaps when you’re much older, and might have even reached maturity, you’ll understand.

    AOracle (d30543)

  201. Darleen:

    Did you hear?

    McCain *knows* how to get bin Laden! He knows how to do it!

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  202. Ignore it.

    JD (f7900a)

  203. McCain *knows* how to get bin Laden! He knows how to do it!

    Comment by Metacom — 10/7/2008 @ 9:13 pm

    Keep forgetting about this.

    I wonder when he’s going to share the information with George Bush.

    jharp (2282bb)

  204. I can’t wait to have a big succulent turkey at Thanksgiving. Hopefully the Washington Redskins will be playing. It’s just a shame there won’t be an Atlanta Braves / Cleveland Indians world series.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  205. McCain has started tottering around like a penguin in his old age.

    Do you really think that Obamatoms constant complaining about John’s age is a good tactic?

    My mother in law has never voted for a Republican while exercising her franchise throughout her 93 years.

    She is an old white woman.

    She is voting for McCain, because Obama stole the nomination through fraud.

    Caucus her ass, she sees Obama for what he is.

    A lying, two bit, hustler who found pimping for votes profitable enough to buy a house with another felon.

    If Obama is not leading by 10% according to honest polling data, he and michelle will have to get a job.

    Not employment by earmark.

    highpockets (eee2ff)

  206. Is McCain a Maoist?

    “Cool hand on the tiller” = Mao’s “Sailing the Seas Depends on the Helmsman.”

    Spooky.

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  207. Yes, you’re right!
    He told me personally, that the plan is to parachute a sweet-cheeks like you into Waziristan where you would be an irresistable decoy.
    When old OBL pops out of his cave, we just Predator his ass.
    Thank you for your service, we’ll send a medal of some sort to your heirs.

    outraged (d30543)

  208. #186
    Metacom, you are so cruel and evil! Denounce yourself! ROTFLMHO! ( I think I just broke a rib..)

    love2008 (1b037c)

  209. McCain refuses to shake the hand that Obama offered after the debate. And this is the man who claims he will reach across the aisle!!

    Barry Smith (24aa5c)

  210. 9:17 directed towards Metacom…

    outraged (d30543)

  211. McCain didn’t wear an American flag lapel pin for either debate.

    Either he’s a Maoist – or he’s “forgettin'” the things that are most important to his wingnut constituency.

    He does, however, know how to get bin Laden, my friends.

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  212. “When old OBL pops out of his cave, we just Predator his ass.”
    Wondering what his last words will be and what TV show he’ll have interrupted.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  213. “Cool hand on the tiller” = Mao’s “Sailing the Seas Depends on the Helmsman.”

    Are you a fan of Mao?

    Or just a good communist, always ready with a little red book?

    Spooky. You are able to quote Mao.

    What did President Clinton say about oral sex?

    More importantly, what did he say when Hillary asked what his definition of incest was?

    highpockets (eee2ff)

  214. “I am a woman seeking truth in a beautiful world ruled by a deceitful society. I am not who I was, nor who I will be… I know more than I want to, but not nearly enough.”
    Haha what a tool.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  215. I may not know much, my friends, but I do know from reading thousands of posts and comments on conservative blogs that the one way you can REALLY TELL whether or not somebody hates America is whether or not they wear an American flag lapel pin.

    John McCain forgot to wear his American flag lapel pin at both debates, my friends.

    Who is the real John McCain?

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  216. I wonder which site Metacom came trolling from?

    JD (f7900a)

  217. She’s a “revolutionary” highpockets. A true dissident. She speaks truth to power.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  218. MD (#182), great point. McCain could have said, “Sure, well send troops into the Sudan to stop genocide, but I guess by the Obama and Democrat standard we will tell the Sudanese that our troops are out of there in five years, whether or not they are ready yet to have a functioning society.”

    JVW (f93297)

  219. Even spookier than me being able to quote Mao is John McCain quoting Mao during his debate performance.

    1. No flag pin
    2. Withheld “plan” to get bin Laden
    3. Quotes Mao during debate

    Just who is the real John McCain, my friends?

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  220. Comment by highpockets — 10/7/2008 @ 9:22 pm

    Since Bill had a very expansive view of what constituted incest, he never had sex with Hillary.

    AOracle (d30543)

  221. Listen to Barack Obama back in March.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSuT5zN2SPI

    Republican for Change (ed759d)

  222. Ah, a twooth to power person. Good Allah, I hate that phrase 😉

    JD (f7900a)

  223. I can feel the system shattering beneath the revolutionary fervor of Metacom and her mentor, the mighty Austinite journalism professor Jensen. Can you feel the hegemony, crumbling, neo-cons??!!!!!!

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  224. Goodnight, my friends.

    Cindy says that it’s time for my sponge bath.

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  225. “I know more than I want to, but not nearly enough.”

    Truer words were never spoken, Metacom.

    JD (f7900a)

  226. Since Metacom has us dressing up the candidates, why not dress Obama as a mynah bird? He can spout those silly banalities that others have taught him to imitate, look pretty, and preen around waiting for everyone to say “Ooh, what a clever bird!”

    JVW (f93297)

  227. Did anyone watch the video from Moby for Change? I’m too lazy to bother.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  228. 172 DRJ:

    This election in a nutshell: a war hero Senator, a blowhard Senator, a car salesman Senator, and Palin. I’m voting for Palin.

    Next time out, I’m voting for Palin & DRJ.

    EW1(SG) (5ebabd)

  229. Seems McCain is wearing a massive chip on his shoulders. It will wear down his 72 year old frame.

    Barry Smith (24aa5c)

  230. “That One”, he won.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  231. 216. I always find self-styled “dissidents” kind of amusing, and lord knows there’s a load of ’em here in Austin. They’re kinda cute. They dress up in their little anarcho-costumes, quote people like Jensen (tool), Chomsky, and Pilger, post on Indymedia and every once in awhile wander over and really “stick it” to their adversaries with their trademark biting wit.
    You kind of want to pat the little ones on the head and say “Aww now go run along and play black bloc!” And they can feel safe knowing that they’re no threat to the state, make no impact on any lives other than their equally silly peers that they play dress up with, and will always have a cozy little system that will coddle them if they ever misbehave and turn over a dumpster.

    Future Reservist Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  232. The ‘cool hand’ reference only made me think of Paul Newman in “Cool Hand Luke.” If only, he could have said the following without sounding “racist.”

    Boy, you’re new meat. You’re gonna have to shape up fast and hard for this gang. We got rules here. In order to learn ’em, you gotta do more work with your ears than with your mouth.

    That’s my darling Luke. He grins like a baby but bites like a gator.

    Anyone who calls themself “metacom” isn’t worth arguing with, fwiw.

    carlitos (7921f6)

  233. Ah, the rhetorical stylings of Barack Smith. Prepare for mendoucheity, folks.

    JD (f7900a)

  234. See Report card on debate by CNN experts and readers at
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/debate.reportcard/index.html
    McCain FLUNKED the test.

    Barry Smith (24aa5c)

  235. I must confess, metacom is one of the funniest commenters I have encountered on this blog. I have never laughed like I did over his comment #187, for a long time. Come on guys, a little laughter does no harm. Loosen up! Better days are ahead. I know so. 🙂

    love2008 (1b037c)

  236. Hmmm… the scent of astroturf is strong

    wonder what the Action Wire demanded of the bots tonight?

    Darleen (187edc)

  237. #204 totally ignored. Can’t say it didn’t happen. It is plainly seen in the tube. The image of the Maverick reaching across the aisle is so phony.

    Barry Smith (24aa5c)

  238. Darleen (#229), do you suppose our friend love2008 is their den mother?

    JVW (f93297)

  239. Maybe he’s hiding the lapel pin inside his cheek along with the acorns he’s stashed for the winter!

    Comment by TriState Soccer – 10/7/2008 @ 6:27

    Now that is some classy bile. You gotta love those “tolerant” liberals, well tolerant until their not.
    McCain is 72 years old and has had cancer, but for you there is nothing like being 36 and having an IQ of 36.

    Obama is what 47 and McCain is 72, and McCain whoops his ass every time.

    ML (14488c)

  240. JVW – do you suppose our friend love2008 is their den mother?

    love2008 is a follower, not a leader.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  241. #239
    McCain is 72 years old and has had cancer

    Now you are going to pull that pity card for McCain?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  242. love2008 is a follower, not a leader.

    Aren’t they all?

    Just lemmings.

    Dana (049cf9)

  243. #240
    In what way have I wronged you?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  244. ML

    The denizens of the Left are sniggering, nasty children. People who disagree with them become non-humans.

    Look at the vicious hate they have for Trig Palin. He is an afront to the Left. For them, Trig is an “it” that should never have been allowed to be born.

    Under Obama care, count on it.

    Darleen (187edc)

  245. I would much rather have a veteran soldier from a military family running my military. Would it be prudent for McCain to reveal his strategy on BinLaden? Didn’t Obama say he was going to “kill” Bin Laden, whats his grand plan. I trust a veteran of war before I trust a Socialist with no experience at ANYTHING. Anyone who would be conned by Barry’s clean cut looks and smooth speaking style would be an easy mark for a used car salesman.

    Bfidler (e8f3cb)

  246. Darleen

    And to drive that point home:

    Sarah Palin Visits Southern California on October 4, 2008
    http://www.ringospictures.com/index.php?page=20081004

    ML (14488c)

  247. In what way have I wronged you?

    love2008, while I have no ability to discern whether you are dishonest with yourself, I can tell you directly that you are dishonest with others regarding your comments.

    You, like several others, use this site merely as a launching pad for ‘attacks’ against the other side. Whether you use commenting to draw attention, or to promote what you believe to be the perfect candidate, what you write rarely rises above the level of simple sloganeering.

    In other words, you are ‘supporting’ a candidate, and that candidate is Barack Obama. Leaders can support others, but they cannot engage in the direction of thought that flows backwards from support to reasoning. That is the direction of thought that you display in your comments, and for me that is proof enough to point out that you are a follower.

    If you wish to be a leader, you need to act like one.

    For an easy example I will choose Patterico, who manages to host an interesting blog, despite work and family. While I believe that Patterico ‘supports’ McCain and Palin, I do not doubt that his support is the endpoint of reason, not the starting point.

    Proof of this has been his recent posts questioning Palin’s capability, and his subsequent apology due to his listening to the commenters on his blog, honestly evaluating their points, and changing his opinion based on objective examination of the available evidence.

    By doing so, he shows intellectual honesty, both with himself and others.

    And by taking the initiative, and holding himself to the same standards that he asks of others, all while balancing an honesty that cuts both directions, he proves leadership.

    If you want to be seen as a leader, one of the first things that you should do is examine the question you posed to me regarding my comment. Your mindset is victim, and as long as you cling to that, you will fail to lead.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  248. ML

    I was at the Carson rally. I saw most of those morally challenged bots. Got a few of my own pics.

    Darleen (187edc)

  249. Obama has got this election in the bag!

    Governor Tom Bradley (b87509)

  250. #241

    No, its about respect. Although I have no respect for the polices of 60 state Obama, I would never belittle him for anything other then his polices and his ability to mumble the word “um” more times then you can count. I would also belittle his wife for her deranged personality for such a privileged person.

    But I could never make fun of their looks because they are not white males.

    Typical “Tolerant” liberal standards ad nauseam.

    ML (14488c)

  251. Darleen

    Thank you, nice site.

    As a So Cal native, that rally makes me really happy.

    ML (14488c)

  252. In about a weeks time, look for the G.O.P. firestorm. I really believe the obvious omissions on the many “lay-ups” in regard to Obama’s character and record are intentional. My belief is that they will throw it all at Barry&Co. near the end of the race. The reasons are obvious: 1.) MSM will be unable to ignore the comments. 2.)Barry’s camp of paid lairs won’t have a chance to spin it 3.)The facts will be fresh in the minds of voters.
    Remember what JM said in tonight’s debate about “telegraphing punches”? This guy is not the drooling old man that you liberals make him out to be. Obama has a lot of skeletons in his closet and its almost Halloween!

    Bfidler (e8f3cb)

  253. goodnight, troll wrote: Chuck Hagel’s wife just endorsed him

    Of course she did. She’s married to Chuck Hagel, the dolt who said he would put his mother on Mt. Rushmore.

    L.N. Smithee (caf457)

  254. Thanks Darleen (#246)
    Nice pictures. They tell it all. I didn’t realise Sarah Palin was so popular!!

    Barry Smith (1637f8)

  255. Heard elsewhere
    Obama won because McCain looked like a crazy old guy, wandering around the stage, mixing up his words, and saying “My friends” seven hundred and ninety two times. He’s not to be trusted with the car keys, let alone the nuclear codes.

    Anyone see McCain pulling his hand away from Obama and then Obama shaking Cindys hand? Obama is a gentleman…McCain is a giant douche

    Obama has fresh ideas and McCain has ideas from the 80s…it showed

    Barry Smith (1637f8)

  256. DRJ

    A Car Saleman would have known Katies was closed….

    Thanks for losing us the Willmington Del Car Salesman cacus…

    EricPWJohnson (ca64bf)

  257. I see that Barry Smith has been posting lies about McCain refusing to shake Baracky’s hand after the debates. Barry appears to be one of those trolls that would not know the truth if it hit him in the forehead.

    JD (f7900a)

  258. Just imagine if Barack Obama referred to John McCain as “that one”. What would the response have been, on TV, here and elsewhere? That would get made into another “Obama…Disrespectful” commercial. I have no idea what McCain meant here, but it’s definitely weird. He’s not helping himself combat the “racially tinged” meme with crap like this.

    Tom (1e141b)

  259. #110, JVW, sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner, the debate put me off, so I went to bed early. You said this wasn’t about “debating points, it’s about how likable and admirable they seem to the mushmind, er, undecided voter.”

    Likeable and admirable help, I’ll agree, but I wanted to see McCain make a series of charges against Obama. Once out in the open, on national TV, the door is open for others to bring up Bill Ayres, Saul Alinsky, Frank Davis, Tony Rezko, et al.

    With the names on the table, put there by the GOP nominee, MSM can’t pretend it’s just some fringe nonsense and ignore these powerful issues. Had McCain pointed the finger, and named names, Obama could not keep running away. He’d be forced to respond, and then explain his earlier double talk.

    I don’t believe elections are won by appeals to moderates and undecideds. Candidates must draw sharp differences between themselves and their opponents. Forget tweedle dumb and tweedle dee, stand tall, speak with authority, point out the other guy’s shortcomings, denounce his corrupt associations, represent the best values and traditions. Moderates and undecideds will see something they like and vote accordingly. In short, be the man everyone respects for his firm and forthright stance, you may not always agree, but you know he means what he says. That’s enough to beat Obama, and most other pretenders too.

    #129, WLS, there was an opening to bring up Ayres. The Navy chief was identified as an NCO, a non-commissioned officer. The Weatherman bombers killed in the NYC blast were building that very bomb for the NCO club at Fort Dix. It was a nail bomb designed to maime, mutilate, and murder NCOs.

    McCain could have walked over the NCO bridge and nailed the bombers to Obama’s terrorist mentors, Bill Ayres and Bernadine Dohrn. (Maybe even worked in Dohrn’s delight at Charlie Manson’s murders and pointed out both Manson and the Weathermen wanted children to kill their parents.)

    That last bit might be a little too much for John McCain to be expected to produce viva voce, but had he cracked open the door, others would be able to fling it open wide enough to let the dogs out.

    Ropelight (36617f)

  260. Ropelight, with respect to Rezko, Ayres, Wright, etc., I think (hope) that McCain is waiting for the third debate to go on the attack mode. It seems that finally we have some degree of coverage of Obama’s ties to Ayres in the MSM (I understand CNN has done a report on it), so the plan perhaps is to let that gestate for a while before employing it. Is that the proper strategy? Who knows, but I’ll trust the McCain campaign on this one.

    JVW (f93297)

  261. Time is slippin’ away, and McCain doesn’t seem to be takin’ care of business. MSM isn’t going to give McCain anywhere near a fair shake, once there’s only a few weeks left, they’ll start using the same tactics we see here from trolls.

    McCain is going to need time to expose Obama, and time is limited, the deck is stacked against the GOP, and McCain shows no sense of urgency. If it wasn’t for Sarah Palin the domestic terrorist, Bill Ayres, would still be just another guy from the neighborhood who’s middle-age children go to the same school as Obama’s pre-adolescent kids.

    Time is very short, and McCain doesn’t seem to be looking at his watch. I don’t see any fire in his belly, no sharp eyed gaze, no bounce in his step, no edge in his voice. He looks old and tired, ready for his evening meal, some milk and cookies, and an early bed.

    PS: I too hope McCain get’s off the dime. But, the signs aren’t pointing in that direction. I fear we’ve been had.

    Ropelight (36617f)

  262. Dammit, I am so tired of the “innocent bystanders” line! I would love JMc to say, “you know, a lot of homeowners behaved irresponsibly too.”

    The problem is that these irresponsible homeowners vote .

    There are few politicians who are willing to tell who was ultimately responsible.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  263. jaysus keerist…. Obama back to the so-call “deregulation” lie

    Even the L.A. Times wrote in one of its articles that McCain has supported tighter regulations in the past.

    Obama says he wrote letters to sound the alarm over sub-prime mortgages. I’d like to see those letters. Obama mention them several times, like he wants to be asked. Well, I’m game. Let’s see the letters.

    I agree.

    He made a public claim that is easily verified, so let him verify it.

    #

    The people in Nevada would be shocked that Obama supports nukes. He has run ads continuously on his opposition to Yucca Mountain. Without a storage and reprocessing facility you don’t have any more nukes.

    Many of them believe that the waste will be buried somewhere else; they do not ask where that somewhere else is.

    Great difference between the two candidates: Obama says healthcare is a “right,” McCain says it is a “responsibility.” I know which vision I agree with.

    A health care “right” implies we can simply lie back and wait for it, while a “responsibility” implies we have to work for it, one way or another.

    Too bad neither candidate suggested price controls.

    If you asked Baracky if gun ownership is a right, he would say no.

    too bad the subject did not get there.

    This is where Barry is weakest.

    Remember what JM said in tonight’s debate about “telegraphing punches”?

    Obama’s reaction to the NRA ads telegraphed his openings.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  264. McCain will not launch an attack during the third debate.
    He obviously doesn’t have it in him anymore. Perhaps extended time in the Senate is a dibilitating disease.
    The coming four years will have those of us, old enough to remember, looking back fondly to the Carter years.

    Oracle (db2f44)

  265. #247
    I think you need to see things a little differently. You like your candidate, I like mine. You make your argument. Some I agree with, some I don’t. I make mine, most you disagree with. I have no problems. You have mentioned Patterico, showing ability to disagree. Even with his chosen candidate. That’s fine. But do you have any example on this blog where you made one positive comment about Obama. Or one disagreement with your base. Maybe we can start from there. Take the lead.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  266. Michael – I posted a copy of Baracky’s letter in the comments above, #172. This letter does not say what Baracky says it says.

    JD (f7900a)

  267. love2008 – I think you need to see things a little differently.

    No, I see things as they are. For example, I disagree with the arguments that aphrael makes, but I respect him because he bothers to put forth an argument. When challenged, more times than not he will re-evaluate his opinion to address the veracity and significance of his opponent’s point, or clarify an earlier comment. I endeavor to do the same.

    You point out your thought process in your comment #265 – You like your candidate, I like mine.

    Wrong. I do not like McCain, and he would not be my first choice for President, due to his being part of the current system (and thus part of the problem). He believes so strongly in working within the confines of ‘acceptable’ Government practice that I often doubt his ability to radically correct the broken elements. (An example – who has resigned or lost their committee chair position due to the financial crisis?)

    That being said, McCain has surprised many, and his choice of Palin is inspired, despite her lack of improvisational skills. (which, I might add, are as least as good as Obama’s) Palin has a record of taking on corruption, and for that I give her a greater margin for speaking error than I would others. When Americans are asked about Congress, the approval ratings are in the toilet. That is because the citizens are losing faith in the system to correct its problems. Palin is someone outside the DC ‘system’, and represents real change.

    Many say the same about Barack Obama. Unfortunately, Barack Obama and his very questionable socialist beliefs will only exacerbate an already difficult problem by making it much, much, much worse. Therfore, I support McCain by default.

    I have written about my problems with McCain several times. It is indicative of your partisan tunnel-vision that you have missed these comments.

    I mention Patterico because he exemplifies something that you do not, and it has nothing to do with agreement or disagreement. It is the ability to come to a conclusion based on evidence and reason. You, however, ‘discover’ evidence and reasoning to support a pre-conceived conclusion, all while discarding any uncomfortable findings that might disprove your conclusion.

    Again, that is why I call you a follower. It is because you like your candidate, and then attempt to find evidence and reasons to support that affinity. Your inability to honestly appraise anything contradictory to your current opinion reduces all interaction with you to a game of ‘what about this?’, where you continuously restate that opinion (I like my candidate) disguised as interaction. You don’t believe your opinion can be changed, and neither does anyone else.

    It becomes boring, as the ‘result’ is pre-ordained. And it is pre-ordained by others, which makes you a follower.

    Apogee (366e8b)


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