Patterico's Pontifications

10/4/2008

Rasmussen Poll Says Biden Won Debate (Updated)

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 9:33 am



[Guest post by DRJ]

Rasmussen poll: Biden 45% – Palin 37%.

Biden 59% – Palin 22% among government employees. Entrepreneurs and middle class voters chose Palin. 73% thought Ifill was neutral.

UPDATE: Count Mark Steyn among the 37% who liked Palin:

“I was a bit alarmed at first. I hadn’t seen her for awhile, not since the halfwits at the McCain campaign walled her up in the witness protection program and permitted visitations only by selected poobahs of the Metamucil networks. When she walked out on stage, her famous reach-for-the-skies up-do seemed a bit subdued and earthbound, like a low-budget remake of the famous scene in There’s Something About Mary. Then she started speaking. The lyrics were workmanlike, but the music was effective. I have a couple of favorite snapshots from the evening. One was when Governor Sarah Palin said that John McCain hadn’t required her to check her principles at the door, and she still believed in drilling in ANWR and she was hoping to bring him round on that. And then she grinned and gave a mischievous wink into the camera, and to the nation.”

— DRJ

130 Responses to “Rasmussen Poll Says Biden Won Debate (Updated)”

  1. So Biden cleaned up among people who actually know government? Interesting… how do we blame this one on the liberal media, fellas?

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  2. 22%? That is strange – really. If all of the sample came from the State Dept I could maybe buy that. Of course, I’m in the DoD which may explain my puzzlement.

    voiceofreason2 (10af7e)

  3. 45% to 37%?

    What do you want to bet that this closely tracks party affiliation?

    As for the notion that government employees (sucklers of the grand teat) are somehow more qualified to judge the debate, all I can say is, Ha!

    DelD (8d402f)

  4. Truthnjustice-

    Yoiu should have shown up during the debate, man. Though I doubt Joe “France and the US kicked Hezbollah out of Syria” Biden would recognize you if you bit him on the a**.

    MartyH (928d75)

  5. Saying government employees actually know about government is like saying prison guards know about crime. It’s possible, but there’s no evidence for it.

    Ropelight (1be620)

  6. Rasmussen poll: Biden 45% – Palin 37%.

    Makes sense to me. Keep in mind 25% still think George Bush has done a good job. Through in another feeble minded 12% and you’ve got your result.

    And somehow, I just know that this is good for republicans.

    jharp (2282bb)

  7. “Saying government employees actually know about government is like saying prison guards know about crime.”

    Saying government employees actually know about government would be like saying prison guards know about prisons.

    Much better analogy.

    jharp (2282bb)

  8. I’ve updated the post with a Mark Steyn link.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  9. “As for the notion that government employees (sucklers of the grand teat) are somehow more qualified to judge the debate, all I can say is, Ha!”

    I didn’t catch anyone saying that.

    The important numbers are 45% to 37% which is a loss for McCain. A huge loss.

    In case you weren’t aware everyone gets one vote. Doesn’t matter if you’re a government worker, self employed, unemployed, or homeless.

    And Palin lost. Good times just keep coming.

    jharp (2282bb)

  10. Reform is a four letter word to a lot of government employees.

    The Messiah’s promise of an additional $1 billion of goverment spending is a featherbedding goldmine for them.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  11. It gets worse for the GOP. Seems Rasmussen was the best results she got.

    Survey USA

    Biden 51% Palin 32%Undecided 17%

    MediaCurves.com tracked independent voters, showing them breaking to Biden 67% to Palin 33%.

    CNN/Opinion Research Biden 51 Palin 36
    CBS Biden 46 Palin 21
    Fox Biden 61 Palin 39

    In the CBS poll, of the uncommitted voters, 18% now say they will vote Obama/Biden, 10% now say McCain/Palin.

    Pretty good stuff. Thanks for pointing it out.

    jharp (2282bb)

  12. DaleyRocks,

    Do you know many government employees? There are more good ones than bad ones. Most of us are frustrated with the red tape and changes in direction that each new administration or Director brings. Bush oversaw the creation of the NSPS (national security personnel system) which is much more performance based than the old system. It is only a couple of years old and has not had time to prove its worth.
    The unions are resisting this mightily and I would bet even money that an Obama administration will scrap it.

    voiceofreason2 (10af7e)

  13. How to blame it on the liberal media? Simple.

    The media chose not to report Biden’s tremendous number of crazy factual errors. If the narrative was “Joe Biden can’t tell the truth even when he’s trying to,” people would know that Palin won hands-down.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  14. Wrong. Saying that government employees would prefer the Democrat over the Republican is like saying casino owners would prefer the gambler over the opinion of this group.

    Where are the polls of Oil Company employees?

    What about polls of Military Personnel?

    Apogee (186a12)

  15. Day after the debates a round table on CNN was talking about how Biden won the debate. The go-to guy at CNN? Toobin.

    Flip the channel to Fox and you see a round table talking about Biden’s many many errors and how Palin won the debate.

    No need to ask who won. The only question necessary in any poll is “what party do you support?” That answer can be extrapolated to answer any possible question asked.

    Apogee (186a12)

  16. “The unions are resisting this mightily”

    VOR – I know people at state, local and federal government levels and don’t necessarily disagree with your statement which is why I put the qualifier in my comment. The resistance to performance based measurement you describe, whether in the national security area, the education field, many other areas it can be applied is an ongoing disappointment for many in the private sector who face competition and essentially do not have jobs for life and get evaluated on their performance on a constant basis.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  17. Updated post Biden/Palin debate election odds.

    linesmaker.com

    John McCain 2-1 Bet $1 to win $2
    Barack Obama 1-3 Bet $3 to win $1

    jharp (2282bb)

  18. Update:

    jharp – zero so far, but still pitchin’
    et al – so far out in front, game called, it goes in the books as a skunk.

    Ropelight (1be620)

  19. Comment by jharp — 10/4/2008 @ 10:51 am

    Just out of curiosity how much money have you bet to date?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/4/2008 @ 10:48 am

    Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

    voiceofreason2 (590c85)

  20. None. It is illegal.

    jharp (2282bb)

  21. Harpy – Why aren’t you out following your normal Saturday activity, insulting quadrapelegics, like the brave progressive warrior persona you claim on this site?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  22. I see you are up to your normal Saturday activity.

    Lying.

    jharp (2282bb)

  23. “And then she grinned and gave a mischievous wink into the camera, and to the nation.”

    And a serious question. What the hell is the above comment by Steyn all about?

    Are we having a beauty pageant? Or an election for the most powerful office on the earth?

    Please don’t tell me the ability to wink somehow qualifies her as VP.

    I’ve always thought of Steyn as a jackass and proposing this as somehow meaningful further confirms my thoughts.

    Has the right wing lost it’s mind?

    jharp (2282bb)

  24. jharp – I see you are up to your normal Saturday activity.

    Lying.

    Be careful daleyrocks, jharp lies all day every day. It just gave you the only professional opinion that it can.

    Apogee (186a12)

  25. jharp – That’s a lie. I never said that you did not insult quadripelegics.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  26. jharp–

    There are only two qualifications for Pres/VP – being at least 35 yrs old and a natural born citizen. Everything else is subjective.

    On that latter note, we do know that only three of the candidates have achieved the two qualifications. As for Sen Obama, a Federal judge in PA apparently has ordered The ONE™ to present a verified birth certificate.

    BERG v. OBAMA et al

    Horatio (55069c)

  27. Horatio,

    I believe you are looking at a proposed order written by Berg’s lawyers, not an actual order of the court.

    fat tony (f86b83)

  28. Of course govt employees prefer Biden. They know that under an Obama administration their jobs — no matter how meaningless, useless, wasteful, or redundant they may be — will not disappear.

    In case you weren’t aware everyone gets one vote. Doesn’t matter if you’re a government worker, self employed, unemployed, or homeless.
    — One more reason to have fewer govt employees, whether it be those that actually go to work or those that just stand in line for a check.

    It gets worse for the GOP. Seems Rasmussen was the best results she got.
    — Yeah, and Lloyd Bentson, by ALL accounts, kicked Dan Quayle’s ass in their 1988 debate. How did that work out for his ticket?

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  29. Funny- 0Biden spews something like 14 bald-faced lies in the debate and he won? Yeah, I suppose plenty of people will buy what the dem-fellating media and pollsters say over their own lying eyes.

    Oh goodie- Biden attacked the Bush/McCain and said Cheney was worst veep in history. And who really doesn’t realize that government workers are overwhelmingly liberals. Look how well the entrenched libs at State Dept. and CIA served the Bush Presidency. And check out how the entire population votes in any Presidential election. No doubt that the vast majority of blacks in DC love sucking at the public teat.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  30. I believe you are looking at a proposed order written by Berg’s lawyers, not an actual order of the court.

    I stand corrected. One note: Berg is an attorney representing himself.

    It will be interesting to see what happens if the judge, in fact, refuses to dismiss the suit and signs the order. I do, however, stand by the rest of my post, jharp’s desire for more qualifications notwithstanding. Pass the popcorn please.

    Horatio (55069c)

  31. Polling (non-military) gov’t workers is like polling San Fransiscans. Except for a few scattered conservatives, you know what you are going to get.
    Pick up any government employee union newsletter and you will find the proof.

    tmac (f9e092)

  32. tmac,

    “Polling (non-military) gov’t workers is like polling San Fransiscans. Except for a few scattered conservatives, you know what you are going to get.”

    They didn’t take a poll of government workers. They took a regular scientific poll, something that seems to be poorly understood around here.

    In that poll, the subset of government workers favored Biden, that’s all.

    Palin was beaten by any measure you choose to take. And that’s very bad news for McCain but very good news for Americans.

    jharp (2282bb)

  33. It will be interesting to see what happens if the judge, in fact, refuses to dismiss the suit and signs the order. I do, however, stand by the rest of my post, jharp’s desire for more qualifications notwithstanding. Pass the popcorn please.

    Comment by Horatio — 10/4/2008 @ 12:09 pm

    I’ll tell what is going to happen and save you the suspense.

    Suit gets dismissed.

    jharp (2282bb)

  34. Here comes the desperation and lies and more unfavorable ratings for Palin.

    Gov. Sarah Palin accuses Sen. Barack Obama of “palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.”

    What a phony and an idiot. And a fake Christian.

    Real classy lady you’ve got there. Excellent choice Senator McCain. Excellent choice for the democrats, that is.

    jharp (2282bb)

  35. There’s a nice little editorial about Biden’s debate lies in today’s New York Post. The conclusion is basically why would Americans want someone who lies so pompously and easily a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I agree.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  36. All polls for the 9/30-10/2 period.

    Dkos/R2000 has Obama up 12, 52-40.

    Ras has Obama up 6, 51-45.

    Gallup has Obama up 8, 50-42.

    Hotline has Obama up 7, 48-41.

    Two of the three days of polling in these polls came the nights after the Biden/Palin debate.

    Just cannot describe the glee I feel.

    And to think the right wing nut jobs thought Palin was the one. Too dam funny.

    jharp (2282bb)

  37. Funny how Biden’s response about the VP’s role which is COMPLETELY WRONG gets no attention, yet Palin’s remark about what does the VP do, is covered by the MSM. The Vice President is the President of the US Senate. Biden’s been in the Senate how many years? By tradition, a President pro tempore is appointed but those duties are of the President of the Senate.
    VP debate link

    And the primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there’s a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.

    Constitution link

    liontooth (0edfdb)

  38. By my count, 1/3 of the comments on this thread are from jharp. Quite a conversationalist, and a prophet too. He’s able to judge the spiritual condition of Governor Palin and determine that she’s “a fake Christian.”

    With a mind so totally impervious to the views of others, I wonder what jharp will say if McCain and Palin actually win.

    Don (9ca635)

  39. I’ve got a problem with this “one man, one vote” thing. Aside from the little matter of Democrats consistently stuffing ballot boxes in all their various and sundry ways, I don’t think the franchise should be extended to specific individuals and groups.

    Take for instance, members of Congress. They make the laws everyone else has to respect, and they’re supposed to also abide by the same laws. But that doesn’t happen, we’ve seen it over and over again. Congress would never have brought the bailout up for a vote before making sure a few heads rolled first if they had any inkling accountability would be a concern. They are exempt from the the law which governs you and me, and they know it.

    Members of Congress often exempt themselves and their fellow travelers from the very regulations they bill the taxpayers for enforcing. That’s a big conflict of interest, or so I’m thinking at this moment.

    Then, there’s government employees. Why should they get to vote on the very guys who sign their pay checks? It’s not right. That’s a clear conflict. Especially, if those same government employees are members of a labor union.

    These guys get together, employ lobbyists to influence legislation which the the union/members/government/employees then enforce against us using the machinery of government to comple compliance. Ya see what I’m gettin’ at here?

    I’m going to give this matter additional thought and see if I can’t put something together which makes sense and might be useful, at least as a way of organizing my thoughts if nothing else.

    Ropelight (1be620)

  40. “He’s able to judge the spiritual condition of Governor Palin and determine that she’s “a fake Christian.”

    It’s quite simple to see Palin is a fake Christian.

    It’s the lying. And once or twice I can count as a mistake.

    But the whopper about “the bridge to nowhere” that she repeats constantly, if there is a hell, will certainly buy her a nice long visit.

    jharp (2282bb)

  41. The media chose not to report Biden’s tremendous number of crazy factual errors.

    This is McCain campaign and Palin created BS. You’re the only one who doesn’t see through it. They also announced McCain won the first presidential debate. Too bad the polls don’t show it. Obama/Biden are at a new high +5.9%.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  42. “I’ve got a problem with this “one man, one vote” thing.”

    “I’m going to give this matter additional thought and see if I can’t put something together which makes sense and might be useful”

    Good luck, Ropelight. I’m anxious to see what you come up with as your position is indefensible.

    And preposterous. But most wingnut positions are and heck, 30% will believe you.

    jharp (2282bb)

  43. “What a phony and an idiot. And a fake Christian.”

    You forgot to make fun of her mentally disabled son, how can you not make use of one of your greatest hits?

    Now we’ll hear the standard MO response from Harptard:

    “LIAR!”

    “None. It is illegal.”

    HarpTard doesn’t even realize when he’s in a severe state of cognitive dissonance – he’s quoting stats from gambling sites as if they’re the lord of all opinion polls, yet declines to actually put his money where his anal cavity is.

    Nice work there, HoosierDouche.

    To which we’ll hear the following ad nauseum public service announcement 24/7 from the ever – robotic HarpTard:

    “LIAR!”

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  44. Tmac,
    So a union newsletter is proof? I’m in that union (a first for me) but they primarily are concerned with safety and fair treatment of the blue collar workers. White collar workers don’t get involved much as there are few things that impact them in these areas. None of us can walk off the job to strike.
    Like anything the government workers are a microcosm of society. This was one poll with an odd result — I need something better than that to be convinced.

    voiceofreason2 (f0f6bb)

  45. “It’s the lying. And once or twice I can count as a mistake.”

    I believe this now officially counts as effectively constituting over half of HarpTard’s responses to any dissenting opinions from his warped worldview – they contain every known variation of calling others as untruthful:

    HarpTard at the local gas station:

    HT: “Excuse me, but the pump just told me that my credit card was not accepted.”

    Gas station attendant: “Sir, just try it again, I’m sure it will go through.”

    HT: “LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!”

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  46. What a phony and an idiot. And a fake Christian.

    jharp finally nails Obama!

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  47. Just cannot describe the glee I feel. – Comment by jharp — 10/4/2008 @ 1:12 pm

    That’s crystal meth for ya.

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  48. Well, one man, one vote only works in red states. in purple states in which a republican is in charge of the election process one man only gets one vote in precincts likely to vote republican. Otherwise the ballot is thrown away. I am from Ohio so I know a thing or two about that. How did Bush win in 04? Ask Ken Blackwell.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  49. By my count, 1/3 of the comments on this thread are from jharp. Quite a conversationalist, and a prophet too. He’s able to judge the spiritual condition of Governor Palin and determine that she’s “a fake Christian.”

    And yet strangely silen on the Fact Checking Biden’s Statements post…

    Dana (973491)

  50. silen = silent…

    Dana (973491)

  51. You forgot to make fun of her mentally disabled son, how can you not make use of one of your greatest hits?

    Comment by Dmac — 10/4/2008 @ 1:59 pm

    And Dmac lies again.

    Liar.

    jharp (2282bb)

  52. “I am from Ohio”

    truthnjustice

    I lived in Ohio for over 35 years. North central mostly and graduated from Ohio State.

    You?

    jharp (2282bb)

  53. HarpyTard – o – Gram: a new service in which people can send personal messages to anyone they can think of and have them called – “LIARS!”

    Be sure to tell your friends.

    “I am from Ohio so I know a thing or two about that.”

    Translation: “I only believe what the Daily Talking Points memo from Kos tells me to believe, I have no functioning thought processes other than what I receive from biased sources. I am an empty vessel, shorn of any measurable brain activity for an alleged human being”

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  54. tnj 2:21pm – Well, one man, one vote only works in red states.

    You can say that again. Choosing to ignore and lie about the fact that Democrats have a tradition of Dead man/Many votes doesn’t excuse the partisan behavior of hacks like yourself or Ohio’s shame, ballot suppressor Brunner.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  55. Forgot the Ken Blackwell part.

    A real doozy there. Thankfully the Ohio voters sent him packing. Pretty big deal now as so much is riding on Ohio.

    And I love, love, the buses picking up folks from the ghettos and homeless shelters and instantly registering them and them instantly voting.

    Democracy in action. McCain is toast in Ohio and is toast for the election.

    jharp (2282bb)

  56. “I lived in Ohio for over 35 years. North central mostly and graduated from Ohio State.”

    But he moved to Indiana when the state went after him for not paying his back taxes on his mobile home.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  57. “…and graduated from Ohio State.”

    He also graduated with honors, with a degree in Women’s Studies.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  58. “I am from Ohio so I know a thing or two about that.”

    Translation: “I only believe what the Daily Talking Points memo from Kos tells me to believe, I have no functioning thought processes other than what I receive from biased sources. I am an empty vessel, shorn of any measurable brain activity for an alleged human being”

    Comment by Dmac — 10/4/2008 @ 2:31 pm

    And you are a liar.

    jharp (2282bb)

  59. But he moved to Indiana when the state went after him for not paying his back taxes on his mobile home.

    Comment by Dmac — 10/4/2008 @ 2:33 pm

    Gotta give you credit. You have invented a new lie.

    Good one.

    Liar.

    jharp (2282bb)

  60. “And I love, love, the buses picking up folks from the ghettos and homeless shelters and instantly registering them and them instantly voting.”

    Of which practice he’s more than familiar with, having been picked up outside of his mobile home after one of his legendary 5 – day benders. Yes, he’s proud of his voting record, and loves being an American!

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  61. C’mon, Harptard, give me that shot again:

    “LIAR!”

    It’s like a Bobo Doll, but without any signs of an actual sentient being.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  62. Now that I think about it, it’s more like talking to a parrot:

    “Wraack! LIAR!”

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  63. Comment by Don — 10/4/2008 @ 1:46 pm

    Don, let’s not forget the harpsters mastery of spelling and grammar as illustrated in his post at 10:11am –
    it just completely throughs me.

    AOracle (96da32)

  64. jharp only has one actual retort to anything, and that is the accusation “Liar!”.

    It is here to throw accusations, and then run away when finally cornered in it’s contradictions.

    You’re a partisan troll, jharp.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  65. Apogee, Dmac and others, this is for you:
    (to the tune of Barry Manilow’s Mandy)

    Oh harpy
    You came and you trolled oh so badly
    And we bitchslap you each day
    Oh harpy
    You’re dull, dumb, boring and pathetic
    But you still post anyway
    Oh harpy

    😉

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  66. Q, you always do make me laugh.

    Someone should put together a FAQ about Things Harpster Has Claimed to Be and Do in Previous Posts Here and on Other Websites.

    It will show off the fact that his “LIAR” shrieks are, well, projective at best.

    On the other hand, it is cybernetic food for the tiresomely predictable troll.

    It is interesting to note how much free time this person has to post “LIAR” over and over again today, along with venom and snark. I mean, when you factor in his age, fathering responsibilities, golf hobby, travel schedule, and employment issues.

    Troll behavior. I still think the guy is under thirty and works at Kinko’s. But you see, I know that I could be wrong. Doubtful, but possible.

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  67. Awesome, Steve! Let me try one, this time to Barely ManEnough’s hit “I write the songs:”

    I write the vile that makes the whole world cringe
    I write the vile that makes me of the lunatic fringe
    I write the vile that gets my boyfriend’s eye
    I write the vile I write the vile

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  68. Eric, thanks for the backup. I was wondering if you were even still out there somewhere.

    And Dmac, I love it! It’s amazing, the creativity that a measly troll can inspire. 😉

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  69. “…when you factor in his age, fathering responsibilities, golf hobby, travel schedule, and employment issues.”

    You forgot to add in the hundreds of disabled children in his care 24/7, Eric.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  70. Dmac, here’s your second verse:

    I write the vile in exchange for Thunderbird
    I write the vile ‘cuz I’m a worthless turd
    I write the vile and then I masturbate
    I am harptard, and I write the vile

    😉

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  71. Makes sense to me. Keep in mind 25% still think George Bush has done a good job. Through in another feeble minded 12% and you’ve got your result.

    Aren’t you the cretin who said the Supreme Court decision on the DC handgun ban had nothing to do with the right to bear arms?

    Gerald A (ebb8b5)

  72. BTW, I’ve been going to Kinko’s for years; they’d never hire a loathsome person like that – their standards wouldn’t allow it.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  73. I’m still furious about the Trig Palin business, and even more furious if this pimple actually is the father of a special needs child.

    But then, that is the father-mindset I have.

    At least this guy’s nonsense is helping people create some fun verse.

    Q, I have a pretty substantial teaching commitment right now, and have been fighting off this Evil Cold Virus that either my kids or my students have passed along. So time is short.

    For some reason, Q and Dmac, I am thinking of that HORRIBLE song “Wildfire.” Maybe that could be adapted to this situation.

    Or, to be more current, take Chamillionaire’s song “Ridin’ Dirty” and change it to “Trollin’ Dirty.” But rap isn’t my thing.

    Weird Al did a good job with “White ‘N Nerdy” for that one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw

    Gotta grade another set of lab reports. Glad to see a productive response to trollery: laughter!

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  74. So Biden cleaned up among people who actually know government? Interesting… how do we blame this one on the liberal media, fellas?

    Yeah if somebody is a truck driver for the NY sanitation dept. they “know government”. Likewise all the other govt. employees getting wages and pension benefits private sector employees in the same job could never imagine. They “know government” inside out.

    Gerald A (ebb8b5)

  75. Dmac, you are absolutely correct: every time I have been to Kinko’s even the most emo-goth of the employees are polite, professional, and do the job on time and well.

    My bad. l

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  76. Eric, I understand you’ve been busy. No worries.

    And you’re correct, White ‘N Nerdy is a classic.

    Genius that Weird Al is, he actually already has the perfect song for our troll harpy too:

    You’re Pitiful

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  77. Gerald A-
    One thing I love is that the Military isn’t usually counted as “government work.”

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  78. JHarp: you sound a bit tetched. Actually, quite demented.

    Chai (fadc8a)

  79. I leave one thread laden with radar blips to find another thread littered with them.

    Two things thou:
    And I love, love, the buses picking up folks from the ghettos and homeless shelters and instantly registering them and them instantly voting.
    Democracy in action. Comment by jharp

    Indeed, buying votes for a meal. You are proud this is the grand strategy you have to win Ohio, take advantage of and manipulate the chronically mentally ill and those afflicted with substance abuse? Wow, really progressive there, aren’t we?

    Number two- not everyone born in Ohio thinks like jharp, in fact only a minority do, unless you count those whose reasoning abilities are compromised.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  80. Rasmussen poll: He forgot to put the over 20 bold face lies Biden told during the debate. When all the lies are totaled you will find Biden told a lie for each minute he talked He’s exactly like Hussein O, tell a lie when the truth would do.

    This is going to be an interesting week. For the first time the American people will hear the truth about Hussein O. The Pit Bull has been turned loose and has the facts to back up what she says. She can draw 50,000 or more to each appearance and tell the facts every time.

    The media has lied for too long to protect Hussein. Time to flush them out or close the rest of then up. There is only one Pravda and if Hussein O is elected there will be only one news outlet in the U.S. and it will only spout the Hussein Islamic line. Almost every idiot in the Lame Stream Media will be out of a job, which is not a bad thing.

    Scrapiron (6afa35)

  81. Eric,

    harp only mentioned that he had a disabled daughter in order to bolster a preposterous argument. There’s no reason to believe that kind of thing.

    He’s probably younger than he claimed his daughter was. And of course, his argument was nonsensical. Even if he has a disabled daughter, he still did insult Trig. Saying someone is so stupid that X is smarter is insulting to X.

    Even a genius like Jharp should understand what I mean (Jharp: note that this insulting sentence uses the exact logical structure of your insult of Trig and his mom… it’s not complicated).

    The polls are odd stuff here. I don’t know if it’s because of the typical weekend slant or if America just isn’t buying what Palin is selling. At this point, if a debate doesn’t result in a shift, then the election is over.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  82. Juan, I teach college for a living. And I long ago identified “jharp” as being someone under 30, based on how and what he writes. The false-macho, the sneering, the air of superiority.

    I don’t believe that he has a disabled daughter either. Historically, this person continually claims “me, too” authority on most issues. And doesn’t seem to get that many of us remember his previous posts, which just don’t fit together well.

    But if he did have a disabled child, and is of the age and position he claims, it makes him far, far worse of a person than some under 30 fella trying to act all cybertough.

    It is just trolling, and as you say, fools no one. Faux-outraged profanity in response or not.

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  83. Eric, right on.

    What’s especially frustrating to me right now is that it seems like Patterico’s just gone and abandoned the whole comments section to these trolls. I’ve written to him about it, without response.

    I know Patterico’s very busy and I’m not going to call him a name like a former troll did recently, when he/she/it was banned. Plus, I know I’ve been overheated in the past (see my stuff from yesterday) and I’ve told Pat that I’ll take a time out if he wants. But the garbage here is quite frankly piling up to a sickening degree.

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  84. A line I’d like Palin to use: “Now, you’re going to hear a lot from our opponents how I don’t look like all those other vice-Presidential candidates; how my temperament is different, or I’m not a lawyer or a professional politician, or maybe I come from a town with a funny name instead of the big city…”

    Kevin Murphy (eb4d6c)

  85. Well, Q, I sympathize. But it is Mr. Frey’s blog, of course.

    And you personally know very well how banning anyone can have negative effects, too.

    Personally, I have “zero tolerance” for crude and insulting trollery. But then, I have been called names on several blogs for that attitude on my part.

    I also think, as I stated before, that this “push” is intentional on a large number of right-leaning sites at present. It’s a cross between Gresham’s Law, astroturfing, and Obama’s commandment to “get in the face” of opponents.

    Paging Jonah Goldberg.

    How best to deal with trolls? You will soon find out for yourself, Q, and I don’t envy you that.

    In the final analysis, this is Mr. Frey’s virtual living room.

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  86. Kevin – Apparently she used “there’s a special place in hell for women who don’t support women” at a California rally if Ace is to believed. Ace could definitely have made that line up, but we’ll see. I like it. If she said it, wait for the uproar. Someone from NOW introduced her, Heh!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  87. Oh, and Kevin? That post made me cough up some coffee. I wish that the Sarahcuda would say that, indeed. And even wink when she does.

    You know that she winking specifically at Jim Treacher and Ace, don’t you?

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  88. Eric, you’re right. He’s actually worse if he was being honest about his ‘daughter’.

    At least he isn’t Deb Frisch, I guess. Why do these folks not understand that they hurt their cause?

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  89. For what it’s worth poll wise, the Drudge on line poll that was up for 36 hours or so post debate consistently showed a 70% Palin to 28% Biden result with 2% unable to decide. The figure didn’t change much (oh Palin moved down from 71% “win” to 70% over the thirty six hour period). By the end of the 36 hours something like 700,000 people had cast a vote—a hell of a lot larger sample than any that Rasmussen might have taken.

    Mike Myers (31af82)

  90. It is weird that of all the things that were said in response to my earlier post, there was nothing of substance. Heck of a day fellas, a whole bunch of ruffled feathers and nonsense defensive talk but nothing of real substance. AMAZING!
    jharp, I live in columbus (hilliard)now.

    I find it extremely ironic that you all are calling me an empty vessel to be filled with talking points. I recommend you read Conservatives Without Conscience. It basically details how conservative voters tend to not question authority or question motives of their leaders. Research shows that conservative voters are non-thinking idiots who vote a certain way without really knowing why. So, good on you, I guess.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  91. Mike Myers! You are my comedic relief tonight (though I have to admit that Tina Fey hit a grand slam again tonight as the moronic and dumbfounded Sarah Palin). You are going to site a conservative website as your source for the official VP result? That is hilarious. Furthermore, if your republican site can only garner 72% of its visitors in support of the GOP VP candidate, you are in some serious trouble!

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  92. Research shows that conservative voters are non-thinking idiots who vote a certain way without really knowing why.

    Come on truthn. What a bunch of nonsense. Both sides have their knowlegeable voters and their not-so-knowledgeable voters. And for the record, I’m no fan of Charles Murray’s ‘Bell Curve’ either.

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  93. Truthn, libs like polls that show their guy (Obama) ahead. And conservs like polls that show their own guy (McCain) ahead.

    To make matters, worse, in these fractured times, there is no definitive poll.

    Facts O’ Life, unfortunately.

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  94. Tina Fey hit a grand slam again tonight as the moronic and dumbfounded Sarah Palin…

    Someone moronic and dumbfounded wouldn’t have done well against Biden last Thursday in the debate. By all accounts she did okay; most honest liberals I’ve read have acknowledged as much.

    And FWIW I found both VP candidates likeable and knowledgeable.

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  95. I think that is true, Steve, but I think you should read the aforementioned book before discrediting it. You have to agree with me that citing a Drudge report poll on the VP debate is a complete waste of time, though, can’t you? I mean come on… if I went backstage at a broadway show and took a survey among the actors about gay marriage how do you think those results would be skewed? So don’t feed me a drudge report poll about the VP debate.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  96. I admit she didn’t get the drubbing that I thought she would have, but she didn’t really answer the presented questions. Furthermore, the inability of the moderator to challenge either candidate on answer inconsistencies make me a little weary of the legitimacy of the debate at all. I can’t say that Biden won the debate solely on the fact that he was a bit more at ease, but I can say that he was much more fluid and knowledgeable than Palin.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  97. truthn, fair point (and your broadway show analogy merited a chuckle).

    As to your other point… maybe the book you cited is more nuanced than it sounded, and this is something we could likely argue about all night, but there are some books/films/etc. that I strongly feel don’t need to be read/seen to be dismissed.

    And it’s not a partisan thing. I’m an admitted conservative, but I don’t particularly care to force myself through any of Ann Coulter’s tired polemics. I don’t blame a lot of liberals for skipping Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism either.

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  98. tnj – Why don’t you add Treason by Ann Coulter to your reading list. It provides a good history of liberal perfidy in this country over time. If Coulter scares you like she does most liberals, you might try Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles Of Loberal Hypocrisy by Peter Schweizer. Ir shreds many popular progressive icons based on their failure to follow the principles they actually tell people to live by. Some of the profiles were real eye openers. Obama would fit in easily in the book.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  99. Thanks for the counter arguments, Steve. Ironic, isn’t it, that the very next comment after you have suggested that Ann Coulter probably doesn’t merit any real analysis that good old daleyrocks offered one up for me to read.

    daley. If Obama isn’t in the book then he probably didn’t fit. Are you going to offer up a Rush Limbaugh book next?
    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1242
    He’s not exactly the city on the hill, the shining beacan for the world, either.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  100. Truthnjustice, well thank you for proving we still have some decent and friendly-arguing liberals (i.e. non-trolls) around here. After some of my recent adventures with unnamed others, I was beginning to doubt we did. 😉

    qdpsteve (64c4ed)

  101. “I can’t say that Biden won the debate solely on the fact that he was a bit more at ease, but I can say that he was much more fluid and knowledgeable than Palin.”

    tnj – He appeared at ease and knowledgeable because he was bullshitting more than half his answers and most viewers had no idea. Someone of his experience should have had no need to tell so many lies to make his side look good. Why do you think he did it? Incompetence, desperation or did Sarah get him rattled?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  102. It really boils down to two economic plans. I have never really subscribed to the trickle down theory (it seems to me it makes more sense that the market would react to demand created by middle/lower income families with more money to spend through tax cuts than to try to create a supply and assume that the demand will catch up). Otherwise, I think the parties are relatively similar. I have to be honest, I was really close to voting Nader. His book ‘The Good Fight’ really made me think.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  103. Well, he’s been a Senator for quite a while, and is well respected among his peers. Therefore incompetence is out. He certainly couldn’t be desperate, because all polling I have seen suggests that McCain is fighting an uphill battle to the white house nowadays. Sarah offered up rehearsed, robotic answers to questions that really were not asked to begin with, so I can’t imagine he was rattled. I also disagree that he lied. I think that both candidates stretched the truth at one time or another, but I would be ridiculously naive to think that either candidate was less ingenuous than the other. Is that what you’re selling?

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  104. tnj – Look at the simultaneous time stamps on the recommended Coulter readings. I prefer Coulter’s writing to her TV appearances. It’s usually well researched and footnoted in spite of Franken’s ridiculous claimed debunking.

    Schweizer published his book in 2005, before it was worth including a chapter on Obama. You could probably writew to him and ask if he’s planning on putting something out if you’re curious.

    I’m not familiar with anything Limbaugh has written. Were you going to suggest something tnj?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  105. Nah. I am not really interested in reading a book about how much power Al Gore uses in his house. I noticed that you wrote that post simultaneously with steve, which is why I called it ironic and not idiotic. I have read several published items that have called into question the accuracy of Ann Coulter’s writings, too. If I am going to read fiction I will stick with my favorites.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  106. “Is that what you’re selling?”

    tnj – There’s nothing to sell. The lies were blatant, copious and meaningful to his answers. They are pretty tough for honest commentators to miss and were discussed on other threads here. It’s tough to believe you’re selling his lies were not meaningful to the perception of his performance. Honest answers would have killed hom on a lot of the issues, but what’s done is done.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  107. “I have read several published items that have called into question the accuracy of Ann Coulter’s writings, too.”

    tnj – I’ll bet they were on left wing blogs and that the charges of innaccuracy didn’t stick. Nice thing about the Rosenberg spy ring finally being proved true, killing a lefty myth that they weren’t commies and vindicating Coulter.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  108. I don’t mean to be rude here, but do you realize that those who eat up these ready to eat, ‘biden and obama are liars, palin and mccain are truth-tellers’, meals lie on the fringe of society? The percentage of people who believe this stuff is so small that you’re really living on the very edge of the right wing. There are still people who believe the Earth is 6000 years old? Do you? I am a Christian and I don’t even believe that. A small percentage of people believe that breaking a mirror actually gives you bad luck, or that the month of the year in which you are born has serious ramifications on your personality. Do you? Please do not so quickly dismiss these questions. I think you need to think over them carefully before you go on selling this snake oil you’ve been hawking to family and friends, who probably smile and nod to your face then pity you as you walk out of the room.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  109. Comment by truthnjustice — 10/4/2008 @ 9:54 pm

    so is it your assertion that we have spent more in one month in iraq than in seven years in afghanistan?? or that the military is having trouble w/ translators in afghanistan because all the arabic speakers are in iraq?

    chas (e36377)

  110. tnj – I didn’t make the argument you claim I am making that one side is pure and the other isn’t. That’s the straw man you are erecting to knock down. Why don’t you outline what you believe Palin’s lies were in the debate since you believe both sides were equally mendacious as you said earlier. I would be interested in your perception. The biggest misstep I’ve heard so far is getting the name of our general in Afghanistan wrong and then quibbling over surge principles there and I think she’s got an argument. It sounds like you must have a lot more since the count of Biden whoppers is currently over 20.

    The religious bigotry crap is just totally unnecessary, but expected from the left. I’ve got no interest in your religious beliefs and don’t understand why you would be interested in mine. I don’t believe in the things you asked, but it’s irrelevant. It makes the left feel superior and look down on people who do believe in such things and is yet another reason for the elite and intolerant label that sticks to them.

    The Coulter discussion is interesting. She scares people on the left but I find many have never read a single book or column she has written. It’s the hive mentality that prevails with you folks, the community-based reality. Contempt before investigation.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  111. That is exactly my point. Is that the truth? Is it the truth that Obama voted for higher taxes 94 times? No, it isn’t. Those votes counted simple (and repeated) budget resolutions that wouldn’t actually raise taxes. If one campaign was running a purely truthful, never misleading or innaccurate run at the white house then I think it would be fair to attack the other party for being anything less than truthful. The fact is that McCain is running one of the most untruthful campaigns ever.

    http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  112. I am going to bed, but I have one more thing to say before I go. Elite is a good thing. It means well educated. It means well prepared. It means you weren’t the mayor of a town of 45 people before you smiled and sex-appealed your way into the governorship, where you sold (correction: listed) the state plane on ebay and took federal government money to redistribute to your constituency… oh right, that was before she was against earmarks. Elite means having a background in law. It means knowing the ins and outs of contracts and foreign policy. It means having a passport for longer than 18 months. It means a lot of things that Palin and McCain simply don’t have. I want my president to come from the elite. It means he(she) is highly qualified.

    I read a biography of Clinton at one point that stated that his subject experts always went into meetings with him and felt like they were the ones that were unprepared. He read up on the topics and studied them carefully before he took meetings with the advisors. While you may not agree with his politics, you have to admit that that is an excellent quality for a president to have: someone who does his homework. Palin can’t even name a magazine she’s read in the past 20 years.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  113. I should mention that the biography was not an explicitely pro-clinton one: it most assuredly outlined his shortcomings.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  114. tnj – Does elite mean hanging around with a bunch of corrupt politicians, racist ministers, terrorist sympathizers, hiding your background and beliefs from public scrutiny?

    Thanks for running away. I didn’t think you had anything except for snark.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  115. Once again… lunatic fringe daley… lunatic fringe. Nobody believes that crap except for like the 4 people who post on this blog.

    I admit it, I require sleep. Sue me. I hardly think that I am running away. If, perhaps, you had come up with anything of value I would have stayed on here to debate. All you’ve given me is an Ann Coulter book recommendation and 57 straight “you’re lying” posts. Quite the thinker, you are!

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  116. Fun stuff

    At Fort McNair, an army base located along the Potomac River in the nation’s capital, a chance reunion takes place one day between two former POWs. It’s the spring of 1974, and Navy commander John Sidney McCain III has returned home from the experience in Hanoi that, according to legend, transformed him from a callow and reckless youth into a serious man of patriotism and purpose. Walking along the grounds at Fort McNair, McCain runs into John Dramesi, an Air Force lieutenant colonel who was also imprisoned and tortured in Vietnam.

    McCain is studying at the National War College, a prestigious graduate program he had to pull strings with the Secretary of the Navy to get into. Dramesi is enrolled, on his own merit, at the Industrial College of the Armed Forces in the building next door.

    There’s a distance between the two men that belies their shared experience in North Vietnam — call it an honor gap. Like many American POWs, McCain broke down under torture and offered a “confession” to his North Vietnamese captors. Dramesi, in contrast, attempted two daring escapes. For the second he was brutalized for a month with daily torture sessions that nearly killed him. His partner in the escape, Lt. Col. Ed Atterberry, didn’t survive the mistreatment. But Dramesi never said a disloyal word, and for his heroism was awarded two Air Force Crosses, one of the service’s highest distinctions. McCain would later hail him as “one of the toughest guys I’ve ever met.”

    On the grounds between the two brick colleges, the chitchat between the scion of four-star admirals and the son of a prizefighter turns to their academic travels; both colleges sponsor a trip abroad for young officers to network with military and political leaders in a distant corner of the globe.

    “I’m going to the Middle East,” Dramesi says. “Turkey, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iran.”
    “Why are you going to the Middle East?” McCain asks, dismissively.
    “It’s a place we’re probably going to have some problems,” Dramesi says.
    “Why? Where are you going to, John?”
    “Oh, I’m going to Rio.”
    “What the hell are you going to Rio for?”
    McCain, a married father of three, shrugs.
    “I got a better chance of getting laid.”

    Dramesi, who went on to serve as chief war planner for U.S. Air Forces in Europe and commander of a wing of the Strategic Air Command, was not surprised. “McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man,” Dramesi says today. “But he’s still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in.”

    Readnek (105b91)

  117. “All you’ve given me is an Ann Coulter book recommendation and 57 straight “you’re lying” posts.”

    thj – Of course that’s your view. You promised to tell me all Sarah’s loes from a debate and you try to convince that a vote Barack actually did make doesn’t count? That’s all tou’re selling apart from snark?

    Who’s kidding who cupcake?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  118. And here is the word from the latest troll, who calls himself “trustnjustice.” Watch the spelling and syntax the more this person posts. I suspect “truthnjustice” is someone we all know here, using a different name.

    Anyway, whoever it was wrote:

    “…Elite is a good thing. It means well educated. It means well prepared….”

    Um. Not so much.

    I teach college. At an “elite” college. With “elite” students. “Elite” is one of those self-applied terms that people use to claim perceived superiority over others. They very seldom use that word to describe people they do not like and agree with; instead, it is a self-defined club of the Elect.

    “Elite” decidedly does not equal “well educated.” Nor does it necessarily mean “well prepared.”

    What you mean, of course, is that you like Person A more than Person B, and you want to justify your personal preference in some kind of seemingly non-subjective fashion.

    Riiiiggghhhht. You have already tried to spread the foolish, divisive, and inaccurate canard the conservatives are not intelligent. Strangely, you are not conservative. Imagine that.

    More wisdom from the Party of the Regular People, am I right?

    Just a troll, again.

    Eric Blair (e60b98)

  119. As for Readnek (tres clever), we have a cut and paste Rolling Stone article detailing John Dramesi, who has given many interviews detailing how much he dislikes John McCain.

    I guess we always believe what magazines and books present, right? Magazines like National Review and authors like Jerome Corsi?

    Oh, wait, that’s different. Those magazines and authors are just repeating hearsay and lies.

    It’s interesting how personal the attack was in the quote above, detailing someone’s personal life. No way to tell what McCain really said to Dramesi, right? And Dramesi wouldn’t lie about soldierly issues for political purposes, just like those Swiftboat guys? Right?

    But we have long ago had it established that sex is no big deal in politics, right? Except when partisans want it to be.

    Actually, I would love to see people like Dramesi face McCain and repeat those comments. Remember that McCain has lauded Dramesi’s courage more than once.

    Better still, I would like to see tough guys like Readneck do so.

    It would funny to watch the results.

    Eric Blair (e60b98)

  120. “Elite is a good thing. It means well educated. It means well prepared. ”

    No, elite means in the crowd that has power. Soros-funded Obama is now an elite, with the right ethnic makeup to sell his liberal elitist ideology to ‘the people’.

    Obama is mis-educated by a lifetime of radical mentors and extremist associations. He is unprepared, lacking the sort of executive experience that even the supposedly unready Gov Palin has had.

    The elites have been wrong about many things in recent years. wrong on immigration, wrong on this bailout, wrong about Iraq (the Bush elites screwed it up and then most of the other elites panicked in 2006 and were ready to throw in the towel; only a few, like mccain were ready to double-down, fortunately one of them was pres Bush and Iraq was salvaged).

    Travis Monitor (cfa2f1)

  121. Oh yes, elite.

    As in members of the ruling elite. Or,

    Aristocracy, if you will.

    Yes, our favorite ‘man of the people’ person is enamored with the idea of a ruling class.
    And yet hangs with the group that pushes socialism.

    You know, like ‘for the good of the people’. The common, un-elite people.

    Based on? Hmm. We’ll just say privilege, like those that we love, such as Al Gore, son of a Senator, and those that we hate, such as GWB, son of a President.

    And even though we hate that GWB, at least he didn’t ‘smile and sex-appeal’ his way to power, and then fight an uphill battle against corruption. Oooh, so bourgeois.

    So self-loathing.

    So self-contradictory.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  122. I didn’t say that conservatives in general are not intelligent, however I am suggesting that these two particular conservatives are not.

    truthnjustice (d99227)

  123. Palin was beaten by any measure you choose to take.

    jharp,

    I’m way late to this thread, but per the subscription-only crosstabs in the Rasmussen poll, Palin won independents 44-39.

    Funny that the article didn’t mention it.

    Porchlight (88ec20)

  124. Hey, truthnjustice? When you wrote above “…I didn’t say that conservatives in general are not intelligent…“, did you remember your own post from 9:01 PM last night?

    “… Research shows that conservative voters are non-thinking idiots who vote a certain way without really knowing why….”

    Thus, another troll. These folks just jump from snippet to snippet, and care so very little about their own arguments that they don’t even keep track of their own statements.

    Eric Blair (e60b98)

  125. Eric – Ordinary people are just too stupid to vote. They should just let their elite liberal masters tell them what to do. Walter Cronkite actually said that publically. When liberals insult the electorate and can’t tell them what they really think because no one would vote for them, it’s no wonder they keep losing Presidential elections.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  126. PussnBoots is all upset because he/she/it’s not being taken seriously, but can’t understand why. Typical, whine about your treatment but never examine why said treatment came about in the first place. Self – examination is never in the vocabulary of the Trolls, just self – infatuation.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  127. Comment by Eric Blair — 10/5/2008 @ 8:56 am

    The trouble with lying is that it is too difficult to keep track of what you’ve said in the past.
    When someone constantly contradicts themself, we can – with a high degree of confidence – assume that everything they say is a lie.

    AOracle (e6d3fc)

  128. You know the sayings “A thief of crows” “A crash of rhinoceri”? We need one for trolls, since there are so many here now.

    Eric Blair (e60b98)

  129. hi, Check out the pictures of my new emo hair style
    in http://xrl.us/ouog6

    emoboy (629d0e)


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