Patterico's Pontifications


Bailout Deal Struck

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:22 pm

Details here.

UPDATE: Hot Air has more.

71 Responses to “Bailout Deal Struck”

  1. So I’m seeing a deal (that we know no details of whatsoever) between the ranking GOP member of each division of Congress and 9 total Democrats.

    Frankly, I’m terrified.

    Teflon Don (0d1e49)

  2. The link is failing for me.

    jeff (0b4552)

  3. Congressional democrats are burning the barn because the horse excaped. They are beyond the mental midget stage. I hope the republicans were able to scrape some of the skin off the ‘pork’.

    Scrapiron (c36902)

  4. Interesting take from Congressman John Shadegg (R-AZ). (h/t Gabriel at Ace of Spades)

    jeff (0b4552)

  5. The previous was before the announced deal, not a comment on the deal.

    jeff (0b4552)

  6. Sorry, link is working now.

    jeff (0b4552)

  7. From what I read, it’s not perfect, but it doesn’t suck. (Of course, pending release of all the details.) About the best one could expect from this Congress.

    Oh, and well done, John McCain.

    Marco (5f7986)

  8. Another misleading headline, text says

    Congressional negotiators said they were close to agreement yesterday

    jeff (0b4552)

  9. From that nameless news organization

    Despite the changes made during an intense week of negotiations, the heart of the program remains Bush’s original idea: To have the government spend billions of dollars to buy mortgage-backed securities whose value has plummeted as hundreds of thousands of Americans have defaulted on their home loans.

    Are there really 100,000s of bad loans?

    jeff (0b4552)

  10. God have mercy on our souls. This was made to prevent a depression, now it will lead to one. The greatest depression is what it will come to be called. So now it begins…

    Lance Gargus (b8dd05)

  11. Bail out the banking institutions for when they screw up and let them know that if they do that not to worry for the taxpayers will come to the rescue. Give me a break, and we need to run the congress out of town for they are just as bad, and America, what are you thinking, letting the government make decisions like this and leave us holding the bill. Shame on america….

    Russ (f8f232)

  12. That whole 700 billion dollars sounds rediculous..I think it would be cheaper to give the people of America 1 million Dollars each stimulous check instead,provided that they’re not already millionaires or in prison. And let the people who are on the verge of loosing homes payoff that loan. that’s how the bank go tin trouble anyways. That’s just my rough idea.

    jaime (f0b5aa)

  13. It’s more than an agreement to agree. It’s an agreement in principle, as the WaPo describes it. But the WaPo article doesn’t indicate whether there has actually been agreement on several different aspects that have previously been described by various participants in the negotiations as “deal-breakers” — e.g., building in obvious graft funding for ACORN, re-writing the bankruptcy code to empower bankruptcy judges to destroy the difference between secured and unsecured debt (and thereby making home mortgages vastly more expensive even for the best credit risks who responsibly make every payment on time.

    It’s impossible to tell whether those things have been resolved (with the WaPo just not knowing how), or whether they’re still left open.

    The net-net for the moment is that nobody can say with any certainty whether this possible deal will “make” or “bust.” However, keep in mind that (1) the Dems control both chambers of Congress and (2) the WH is extremely eager to make a deal and has shown lots of willingness to compromise to get there. For the Dems to say (again, after the “mistaken”/over-optimistic announcement last Thursday) that “a deal has been reached” suggests, but doesn’t prove, that Pelosi and Reid are confident that they’ll have enough GOP support to be able to paint this as bipartisan if it goes to hell in a handbasket later.

    Beldar (732de3)

  14. Um….Jamie…. the US pop is over 300 million–or .3 billion, depending on how you look at it.

    If you assume that fully half of us are rich or in jail, that comes to less than fifty bucks a person if you split up 700 billion. (This assumes that they’re using billion in the american sense, ie, 1000 million)

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  15. Foxfier – Maybe my math’s off, but by my calculations – 700,000,000,000 / 150,000,000 = 4666

    (That’s assuming half of us are rich or in jail)

    Hmm. What about the rich in jail, and the criminals who haven’t been caught? Numerically difficult.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  16. Jamie, will that plan sounds good in theory, it would require a huge influx of illegal aliens to take over the minimum wage jobs nobody would be turning up for before McDonalds are driven out of business….

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  17. Dang calculator– Apogee, true. But still far below a million each.

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  18. #17 – Dang calculator

    A true craftsman never blames his tools.
    (I can’t make the smiley face emoticon.)

    Apogee (366e8b)

  19. *lol*
    Yeah, but if I say “dang it! I hate zeroes! They all look alike!” then I’d be called racist. ;^p

    Foxfier (15ac79)

  20. Russ @11 wrote,

    Bail out the banking institutions for when they screw up and let them know that if they do that not to worry for the taxpayers will come to the rescue.

    Not that I disagree with you in principle, but in many, many cases this is not banks screwing up, this is the CRA screwing up their ability to withhold loans to bad risks.

    Otis Criblecoblis (2b706d)

  21. The congress is not listening to the people, again! TO MAKE US BE HEARD, VOTE EVERY ONE OF THE ENCUMBANTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!! Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and the rest of the bunch have done nothing since we voted for them in 2006 when they promised to end the war and ended up giving that beady-eyed crook, Bush, and his followers everything fricking thing they wanted!!! This bail out is absolutely immoral! But, what the hell, congress will get out with their little perks safe!!! Damn you to hell Pelosi and Reid all the other chuckleheads! The people have spoken and you still don’t listen!!!

    A Nuffer (ac7980)

  22. Beldar,

    But the WaPo article doesn’t indicate whether there has actually been agreement on several different aspects that have previously been described by various participants in the negotiations as “deal-breakers” — e.g., building in obvious graft funding for ACORN, re-writing the bankruptcy code to empower bankruptcy judges to destroy the difference between secured and unsecured debt (and thereby making home mortgages vastly more expensive even for the best credit risks who responsibly make every payment on time.

    Yes, it does. See Page 2.

    Democrats also made a number of concessions, abandoning demands that bankruptcy judges be empowered to modify home mortgages on primary residences for people in foreclosure. They also agreed not to dedicate a portion of any profits from the bailout program to an affordable housing fund that Republicans claimed would primarily assist social service organizations that support the Democratic Party, the official said.

    Kudos to the House GOP for killing those provisions from a position of very little strength. And kudos to McCain for ensuring them a voice in the dealmaking.

    Pablo (99243e)

  23. Not that I disagree with you in principle, but in many, many cases this is not banks screwing up, this is the CRA screwing up their ability to withhold loans to bad risks.

    Right. It’s one thing when they screw up of their own accord and they should be allowed to lie in the bed they’ve made. It’s another when the government forces them to do stupid things, which it did in this case. That fact needs to be made clear to the American people.

    Pablo (99243e)

  24. Sorry, we should “Let the bodies hit the floor.”

    paul from Fl (4dd8c4)

  25. Yes, banks need to make and keep profits and the government (i.e.taxpayers) protect bankers from all losses. Jaime is correct, the gummint could just print money and make everyone millionaires instantly. Of course that would mean a modern version of the Weimar Republic and hyperinflation. Way back then, Germans needed a bushel basket of bank notes to buy a loaf of bread and the paper itself was worth more than the money. I guess we will just have to learn to live with an inflationary depression. If you are a Hollywood star, a ceo with a rich golden parachute or most Senators, any downturn should really not cause you much harm financially. I’m wondering how they will spin core inflation to adjust payments of things like social security payments?
    Kind of wonder why McCain, who is already being accused of dissing Obama at the debate, failed to bring up Obama’s and his minions’ roles in the fannie/freddie fiascos.
    At least the Washington Post suggested that dems would not be able to funnel taxpayers funds into left wing terror groups such as ACORN. I’d like to see people have a roof over their heads but not guarantees that you can live way beyond your means. Bankruptcy judges should not be able to adjust mortgages. If you can’t afford to buy, rent or downsize your housing dreams.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  26. ” And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves..”

    Do I understand this right? The disciples of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” now want the biggest handout in history?

    The filth that say we can’t afford social security, yet now state that it is imperative to bail out the hideous, greedy, speculative thieves that brought upon this economic crisis?

    Do I understand this right? That my American dream is shattered by the nightmare brought upon by the reckless, predatory lending practices of these white collar criminals?

    Do I understand this right? That I’ll possibly spend the rest of my life paying off debt that I never agreed to incur?

    I drive a 1987 car, go without health insurance, and rent a modest home that my sister owns. I’ve worked hard my whole life. I went from middle class, to working class, to working poor. Now in mid life, where I should be harvesting some material success, I’m scrambling for survival – and now I gotta pay off some rich bastard’s gambling debt? Are you kidding me?

    There is another war America is fighting – it is rooted within the tremendous gap between those few top percent who have nearly all the wealth and those of us struggling to survive. As the middle class erodes further and further, more and more people will join the ranks of the under employed, exploited, cheated, and oppressed. How much does our government think we’ll take? How much can we take? The back bone of Amerika is broken..

    Colie Brice (773564)

  27. Do I understand this right?


    Darleen (187edc)

  28. Colie – That’s right, you are a filthy loser in the game of life.

    daleyrocks (34b529)

  29. The signs were there – not one congressman/woman or senator bothered to raise the yellow flag long before this.
    Rick Forno has his take at infowarrior
    Highlights re dates and signs are
    Early 2007 : More than 25 subprime lenders declare bankruptcy.

    April 2007: New Century Financial, the largest subprime lender, files for bankruptcy.

    June 2007: Two Bear Stearns funds tied to subprime lending are closed; redemptions are halted.

    Summer 2007: The yield curve on US treasuries becomes inverted [1].

    August 2007: American Home Mortgage files for bankruptcy.

    August 2007: Countrywide Financial, America’s largest mortgage issuer, takes out huge emergency loan.

    August 2007: Fed lowers discount rate by 50 basis points.

    September 2007: A run on the UK’s Northern Rock bank is tied to its problems with subprime crisis.

    September 2007: Fed lowers overnight interest rates by half a point.

    October 2007: US Government announces ‘superfund’ to buy back distressed subprime mortgages.

    October 2007: Fed lowers rates 25 basis points.

    November 2007: Fed injects $41B into the money supply; it’s largest infusion since 9/11.
    January 2008: Ailing Countrywide Financial bought (saved) by Bank of America.

    March 2008: Bear Stearns gets bought in a bankruptcy-avoiding fire-sale.

    July 2008: Indymac Bank collapses.

    September 2008: US Government takes over Fannie (Phonie) Mae and Freddie (Fraudie) Mac.

    September 2008: Merrill Lynch acquired by Bank of American to overcome fears it may be the next firm to crash.

    September 2008: Lehman Brothers files for bankruptcy.

    September 2008: US Government steps in and saves American International Group (AIG) from collapse.

    September 2008: Treasury Secretary Paulson presents Congress with a $700B “rescue” plan for the markets,

    September 2008: Washington Mutual, America’s largest savings and loan, seized by FDIC and sold to JPMorgan.

    September 2008: Wachovia Bank reportedly looking to sell itself (Citigroup and Banco Santandar are mentioned.)

    635 elected representatives chose to ignore these things. We deserve better representation across the board.

    voiceofreason2 (1e6326)

  30. I see this as the last big money grab by bush before he leaves office. The speech that he made recently was so similar to the WMD speeches that he made just before attacking Iraq. Create this sense of urgency and pass the Patriot Act …er I mean bail out wall street bill before the calamity gets worse. I am angry as hell. I work 50 to 60 hours a week, I am 68 years old – can’t retire, and on the weekends I clean my house and do the yard work and my tax dollars are going to the wealthy so they can continue to have maids and gardeners and live the good life? There is something very wrong with this picture. I think America has clearly lost its compass and I am ready to leave. It appears that instead of getting health care for Americans we are providing welfare for the rich in America.

    Hannah Stevens (906b00)

  31. Comment by Colie Brice — 9/28/2008 @ 9:25 am
    Do I understand this right?
    Comment by Darleen — 9/28/2008 @ 9:36 am
    Colie – That’s right, you are a filthy loser in the game of life.
    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/28/2008 @ 9:41 am

    Keep it up kids
    Daley, you like the think you’re a winner if you have a winner’s dick up your ass.

    Readnek (105b91)

  32. Colie,
    You have to learn to work with the system. Learn some Spanish and toss your social security card. Change your name to Javier or Jose. Use the emergency ward for med needs. If Paul Newman could play a blue-eyed Indian (with a feather, as opposed to Mean Joe Biden’s dot heads), you should be able to fake being an illegal alien. Go to the local Catholic church and seek haven. Or tell the world you like eight year old boys so that NAMBLA and the ACLU stand up for your rights.
    Well, I drive an ’89 Honda by choice and seek a 40 year old classic that releases loads of carbon dioxide and has miserable gas mileage as a way to pay homage to algore’s AGW. I’m thinking maybe Obama is the best choice for POTUS since we don’t want “inexperienced”, vagina-possessing Palin so close to being potus if McCain doesn’t endure. Perhaps we could better race to the bottom economically in that way. You’ve got a fecked up dem-led Congress that will only make eveything worse and the media will only blame the evil Bushitler and McCain as a successor, regardless. I suppose people of newer generations have little idea about what havoc FDR and Jimmy Carter both wreaked. Time for Jimmy Carter II or George Hussein McGovern I perhaps? Blame it on the rich, although I do agree there are plenty of greedy bastards out there with capitalism. Still- neo-marxists like Obama are apparently doing ok and managing fresh fruit and ability to buy carbon credits. PTL- join the crowd- pass the loot, praise the lord and pork the ladies (if you’re the Breck girl at least).

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  33. One of the interesting things to me about the entire discussion is that there are almost always commenters who believe that the Great Depression is coming, though they describe America as though it has been in a Great Depression their entire lives. Except for the part where they got computers and Internet access and time to comment on blogs.

    Karl (1b4668)

  34. What led us in this direction

    It’s a bit of a long read, but worth it to gain some understanding of what exactly the problem is.

    What should infuriate you is that this was written in May of 05!!

    Best reason I can point to to “throw the bastards out”! They just continue to prove their incapable of handling certain aspects of the job we expect them to do!

    TC (f398ed)

  35. #23 Yes the government told the lenders to do stupid things. But then the corrupt execs at FANNIE MAE and FREDDIE MAC, with the corrupt politicians backing them up, said they’d cover anything so the shyster loan arrangers made totally crap NINJA loans and gladly took their fees and dumped the loans. I think there is a difference in grudgingly acquiescing to stupid government policy and saying “Whoo-Hoo! Lets party!”

    jeff (0b4552)

  36. 30 Hannah-
    ^Yessir, our own watermelon jake. Turn a blind eye to the fact that both Dubya and McCain pressed for reform and liberals opposed it. Gotta have that core minority constituency able to “buy” lavish housing even though they had to take ninja loans. I do agree that bankers and wall street should take a huge hit also. But don’t forget that both parties need those wall st. campaign contributions. What this country needs are more lawyers since a ten to one ratio of lawyers over engineers is hardly enough. I guess we need class warfare and John Edwards was right, but do you think Edwards, algore, lurch sKerry, fat teddy or O!bambi will ever suffer financially? Yes, I am aware that Bush-Cheney exist and rule to fatten Halliburton further. Why don’t you compare Bush’s modest and highly energy-efficient digs in Texas to the way algore,kerry and edwards walk the AGW walk. Tell us about free speech for liberals and no one else. Tell us about Obama’s ACORN thugs stifling free speech.
    I’m not too pleased with Bush either, but the media is hardly reporting the effing facts either. Let’s focus on Palin even more and ignore Obama’s vetting as much as humanly possible, ah, er, um?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  37. Readnek

    I answered “Colie”s question. S/he doesn’t/refuses to understand. Colie/Hannah doing the sobsister robotroll “Capitalism betrayed us!” schtick.

    Darleen (187edc)

  38. I drive a 1987 car, go without health insurance, and rent a modest home that my sister owns. I’ve worked hard my whole life.

    Sure you do – but please tell us, if you “worked hard” and still find yourself in desperate circumstances, how come your sister’s done so much better for herself at this point? You really should preview your comments before you post them, lest you betray your fictional narrative.

    you like the think you’re a winner if you have a winner’s dick up your ass.

    Wow, that’s a whole sack of stupid to cram into one sentence. Bad grammar and faux tough – guy posturing, all condensed for your reading pleasure.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  39. One

    There are reasons why I want to take the writers and readers of this blog seriously as more than simple obstacles to common sense, but you’re making it difficult. Two

    Readnek (105b91)

  40. wow- and now Congress just approve $25 Billion in loan guarantees for financially strapped US Automakers? Does that mean that now the always so industrious and ever so underpaid UAW’s union and workers can get a decent pay and insurance package? Pray tell how in hell do foreign automakers with US plants manage to stay profitable and take ever-growing market share? I haven’t purchased any American cars in over thirty years. Maybe if they made better cars? GM is on the verge of bankruptcy? Why is it that neither Ford or GM deign to import some of the most popular models that sell well in Europe? Why are the Japanese so much more competitive?
    Let Reid and Pelosi take over the US auto industry and let the good times roll. tax the hell out of US OIL and give some of that dough to GM, Ford and Chrysler and don’t forget ACORN too plus some lovely transfers to pols’ accounts.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  41. Any Paultards around to enlighten me to just where the only man who can save amerikka, the illustrious non-racist/gold standard luap nor stands on this? Did he go along with the pc crowd’s toxic financing and loan parameters? It’s not too late to throw our support to an indy party, eh?

    The media is covering for Dodd, Barney, Chuckie and Obama on this. I fear Mr. Getalong with the libs will give the house away to liberals in interest of compromise or that it is too late to really make effectice changes. Obama sure as hell won’t ameliorate any of these problems. Raising taxes will only exacerbate the downhill path to perdition. Save our souls and pocketbooks! Olberdouche and his pals will still do just fine regardless.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  42. A day after this passes, I want to see McCain say something like: “And the day I’m sworn in 1000 FBI agents are going to be assigned to investigating fraud in the mortgage security business, and the campaign donations of its lobbying arm.”

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  43. #3 TC, Wallison is a McCain advisor and will probably be his Secretary of the Treasury.

    Readnek, so you want to nationalize the entire financial industry. Glad to see where you are coming from. What we are suffering from is a modest step in that direction. You want to have Barney Frank and Chris Dodd running the whole thing. That worked well for France after Mitterand nationalized the banks. Ignore the Canadian anti-American stuff and read this:

    For Mitterrand, Ronald Reagan’s Washington was the enemy. Apoplectic that the French president had included four Communists in his cabinet, Reagan pulled out all the stops to thwart socialist policies, which included nationalizing the country’s banks. By 1983, Mitterrand was forced to abandon his program.

    To other politicians, that defeat might have been shattering. But Mitterrand had little interest in economics.

    Yes, it led to a massive flight of capital and of entrepreneurs. France still has not recovered although he reversed his policies 25 years ago.

    Brilliant stuff, Readnek, Of course, some people agree with you.

    Mike K (155601)

  44. Sweden 1992

    A banking system in crisis after the collapse of a housing bubble. An economy hemorrhaging jobs. A market-oriented government struggling to stem the panic. Sound familiar? It does to Sweden, which was so far in the hole in 1992 – after years of imprudent regulation, shortsighted macroeconomic policy and the end of its property boom – that its banking system was, for all practical purposes, insolvent.

    But unlike the United States, whose Treasury has made a proposal to deal with a similar situation, Sweden did not just bail out its financial institutions by having the government take over the bad debts. It also clawed its way back by pugnaciously extracting equity from bank shareholders before the state started writing checks.

    That strategy kept banks on the hook while returning profits to taxpayers from the sale of distressed assets by granting warrants that turned the government into an owner. Even the chairman of Sweden’s largest bank got a stern answer to the question of whether the state would really nationalize his bank: Yes, we will.

    “If I go into a bank,” Bo Lundgren, Sweden’s finance minister at the time, said, “I’d rather get equity so that there is some upside for the taxpayer.”

    It worked.

    Readnek (105b91)

  45. Why this unseemly haste? The bailout bill isn’t even in final form, yet Congress is scheduled to take it up for limited debate and speedy passage all within a space of 24 hours.

    Buy in haste, repent at leisure, is as true today as it was when first uttered, time out of mind.

    Today, one Congressman reported there was no flood of phone calls from bankers and businessmen from his home district panicked about limited access to credit. So, where’s the beef? Sure, there’s a big and growing problem with failed mortgage loans, but does it really threaten to engulf the entire US and world economy?

    It’s more important to slow down, catch our collective breath, and consider well the issues before us, without allowing the goading urgency of contingent circumstance to stampede us into an inappropriate response.

    Calm and cool calculation will serve us best. We don’t need to muddy the waters with electoral considerations, or rush to address a confusing array of problems, when all will become considerably less threatening if we but take the time to examine the issues carefully.

    There’s an old question that has served pilots well: What’s the first thing you should do in an emergency?

    Wind your watch.

    Ropelight (1be620)

  46. “Calm and cool calculation will serve us best.”


    Readnek (105b91)

  47. I think Readnek is blah/AF but I can’t prove it. So I’ll just keep Readnek on a super-short leash. First profanity or insults in a Readnek comment, Readnek is gone.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  48. Ropelight,

    The haste is due to the opening of the Asian markets. A significant decline there would affect other world markets.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  49. OK one last item of interest, it’s a video, of sorts.

    Bruning down the house

    TC (f398ed)

  50. Shades of the LTC crisis, albeit on a much larger stage.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  51. Readnek – Intersting article on Sweden. On the origins of their crisis, a market-oriented government and imprudent regulations, both cited as causes, seem to be contradictions in terms. What is that all about? You don’t usually have the balls or intellectual chops to explain your links Readnek. You just pump and dump.

    If DeLong can only envision three options for the current crisis he is an extremely limited thinker. Why do you keep linking him?

    Did Tucker Eskew thake responsibility for all the perfidies of which you keep accusing him or are those just typical rumors? Do you actually have anything to back up your stuff on anything apart from some of the push polling?

    Is Jimmy Carter, out country’s worst President one of those anti-semitic Republicans to whom you were referring on the Bridge thread? I thought he was a Democrat, but a rabid anti-semite, nonetheless.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  52. With Tony Rezko apparently singing to Patrick Fitzgerald in Chicago in an attempt to lessen his sentence, we have another potential dark cloud looming over the Obama campaign. Both the Blagojevich and Daley administrations are targets of Fitzgerald. Whether or not Obama would get sucked in to any investigations is unclear. He certainly engaged in the usual Chicago backscratching and quid pro quo deals as a state legislator and local lawyer. His work on pushing public housing deals through the state legislature for developer buddies is a matter of public record, which was often reciprocated by legal work for Davis, Miner or campaign contributions.

    The timing is awful for Obama. I couldn’t be more disappointed.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  53. #48, DRJ, Asians are smart people, they aren’t likely to be rolled quite as easily as members of the stupid party. What bumbling dunderheads the Republicans have proved themselves to be, they couldn’t lead a dog and pony show across the street.

    Dems have the majority to pass any bill without GOP assistance, and it’s clear, George W Bush is in cahoots with the Jackass Party. He’s sold us down the river, again.

    I smell a big fat Democrat rat! Dems are pussyfooting around. They have the votes, the POTUS is in their pocket, so why are they talking to anyone but their own people? One reason, they’re using the issue to help Obama win the election.

    Pass this outrage of a bailout bill and enough Conservatives will abandon McCain and the GOP down-ticket to give Dems a full house. Count on it. I’m not OK with this, not at all.

    BTW, considering Patterico’s comment at #47, someone should direct his attention to #31 above.

    Ropelight (1be620)

  54. Ropelight
    Chuck Yeager’s answer to the first thing you should do in an emergency is this: “Think.”

    dchamil (2bbdce)

  55. McCain Hires GOP Operative Who Helped Smear Him in South Carolina in 2000

    Former officials of Sen. John McCain’s 2000 campaign expressed shock and disbelief Monday to learn than the GOP presidential nominee had hired South Carolina political consultant Tucker Eskew.

    Eskew, along with Warren Tompkins and Neal Rhodes, were key members of then-Gov. George W. Bush’s South Carolina team during the 2000 primaries. McCain and his team long held Bush, Tompkins, Rhodes and Eskew responsible for the various smears against McCain and his family in the Palmetto state during that contentious contest.

    Obama is from Chicago, McCain is from Arizona [booze, bootleggers and gambling]. Assuming Obama isn’t squeaky clean, and there’s no reason to assume he is, McCain has been around a lot longer and has more to worry about if for that reason alone.

    Readnek (105b91)

  56. “McCain and his team long held Bush, Tompkins, Rhodes and Eskew responsible”

    Readnek – So that’s all you’ve got?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  57. Meanwhile, we’ve caught Obama lying about McCain and Palin. And we’ve caught Obama lying about Obama’s own record.

    And we’ve got Obama’s own campaign threatening prosecution to people who criticize Obama or run ads criticizing Obama.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  58. […] Patterico’s Pontifications » Bailout Deal Struck […]

    Bailout Deal Reached With ACORN, And Other Pork Removed | Right Voices (fd6805)

  59. Reprinted from the Bridge thread, which Readnek abandoned when his illogical and contradictory comments began to implode:

    Readnek – Since you are apparently unable to counter any of the arguments, you run and try to assert the same garbage on another link.

    You’re confused. I did make a case against Axelrod. He’s responsible for the same slimy tactics that supposedly show Atwater to be a horrendous scumbag. It is you that chooses to ignore your self-contradictions, which you continue in your references to Jesse Helms.

    You give examples of Jesse Helms, and then excoriate Helms for not ‘facing up to his past’. Yet that, apparently, is exactly what Atwater did when he learned he was dying (according to your link). Yet Atwater receives none of your eloquent forgiveness, as you are apparently able to read minds and discern who is truthful and who is not.

    Oh, and speaking of Carol Moseley Braun, that would be the same Carol Moseley Braun who labeled George Will a racist, would it not? Yet you yourself are willing to link to Will when it suits you.

    By your logic, you believe everything that Will does, since you support some of his views. That is your argument regarding Helms.

    Does this mean that you are a racist?

    No one can tell without your mind-reading capabilities. One doesn’t need that skill, however, to realize that you are a mess of contradictions.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  60. Floyd Norris offers an interesting alternative in the NYT to the “CRA-GSE” narrative that has been gaining currency among conservatives in recent days to explain the genesis of the credit crunch. Among the factors he cites are the CFTC’s early ’90s decision not to regulate derivatives and Wall Street’s excessive reliance on computer modeling.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  61. Readnek – Assuming Obama isn’t squeaky clean, and there’s no reason to assume he is,

    Actually, there’s evidence that Obama’s dirty. It’s just that the media doesn’t want to discuss it, and sites like this are filled with trolls such as yourself distracting from that fact.

    If you’d like to know more about Obama, why not talk to Forrest Claypool? He’s the man who Barack Obama stepped in to campaign against in favor of corrupt Chicago politicians. From the link:

    Barack Obama, an alumnus of the Illinois State Senate and a mentee of President Jones, is campaigning across America in behalf of change we can believe in and a new kind of politics. Here on the homefront we have his mentor playing the same old, cynical game that treats public office like a family entitlement. And the public payroll like a bequest.

    You don’t need me to remind you of our long and embarrassing history, but recent blasts from the past make the pattern clear.

    The pattern is clear to anyone paying attention.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  62. With Tony Rezko apparently singing to Patrick Fitzgerald in Chicago in an attempt to lessen his sentence, we have another potential dark cloud looming over the Obama campaign.

    Maybe, daleyrocks, but the media will ignore it all and McCain and his campaign seem asleep at the switch. No mention of what caused this economic meltdown, no blame on Dodd and Frank, nothing. No smackdown in the debate on causation when Obama blamed dereglation. Palin being ruined by the same handlers who ruined W’s presentation.

    I’m hoping they have a really big October planned to let all this stuff rip.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  63. Spoil what? Waste what? Steal what?

    Barack Obama we do not doubt your intelligence. To be an effective leader one must also display honesty, compassion, & guts. Stand with Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, & Cynthia McKinney. NOT John McCain. Your choice – your move.

    DNC + RNC = ROT (baa5d9)

  64. The seed of this crisis was planted by ACORN and their push for sub-prime lending with the CRA. CRA led to massive increases in subprime lending, and massive increases in subprime lending is at the root of this.

    ACORN was represented by Barack Obama when he was a leftwing community activist. Barack Obama was the attorney representing ACORN in their effort in the 1990s to loosen lending standards. The efforts by ACORN worked. An enthusiastic Fannie Mae Foundation report singled out one paragon of nondiscriminatory lending, which worked with community activists and followed “the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted.” That lender’s $1 billion commitment to low-income loans in 1992 had grown to $80 billion by 1999 and $600 billion by early 2003.

    Bad underwriting was getting hidden by corrupt CEOs like Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson at Fanne Mae and hackles were raised. But Democrats turned back the efforts to reofrm Fannie Mae. In 2005, Obama protected Fannie Mae when McCain and Republicans wanted better oversight of them. Fannie Mae underwrote close to a trillion in subprime loans in the past 4 years, inciting the current mortgage crisis.

    Putting leftwing activist Obama in charge is rewarding incompetence, corruption and bad intentions. It’s like putting an arsonist in charge of the fire department. The pro-Obama media will not tell the truth about Obama’s links to ACORN and CRA, and will not point out the serious links.

    Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1)

  65. 64-
    surely you joke. Nader, Paul and Mckinney? Three self-aggrandizing assholes. I’m not calling them names. They fit the definition. Yeah, I know you Paultards think differently. Blame it on the Joooooooooooos and BusHitler. What has your troika of idiots ever actually accomplished? Honesty? Oh, my name was on masthead of my magazine for many years but I was unaware of the antisemitism contained therein? Yes, I’ve been in Congress a long time and never actually influenced my fellow cretins, but as Potus I will change the world? Not sure what you find good in McKinney. Let’s all stick our heads in the sand and ignore the rest of the world? Oh, Gold should be 23,000,000 dollars an ounce or whatever to back the greenback?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  66. Tim McGarry – What underlying securities were the derivatives priced or written on? You have to create the mortgages to model them with your computers, create securities and write derivatives on them. It’s not a complete chicken or egg situation in this instance.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  67. Tim – Another thought. The basic problem is that if the underlying loans, the mortgages themselves, did not make financial sense, wrapping them up in a derivative or with some form of credit enhancement or cutting them into different pieces doesn’t make the overall pie any better. Somebody somewhere is going to take pipe on the loans. It’s just a question of who and when.

    Wall Street rocket scientists have been around for ever looking to exploit accounting loopholes and valuations differentials. There’s nothing new going on here. Before this latest mess in the mortgage morket we had the fabulous “gain on sale” accounting assumptions for loan portfolios and servicing assets. Norris is pointing out the obvious, but his discussion of accounting issues are worth considering.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  68. daleyrocks – It’s just a question of who and when.

    Us and now.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  69. Did you know many of the fat cats who circulate from board to board and from job to job throughout the financial industry are also members of the Bilderberg Group and or the Trilateral Commission, founded respectively in 1954, and in 1973, in New York City? When someone takes your money and steals your car, it makes an impression. When they belong to such a shadowy political clique, it leaves an indelible impression. Many elected officials even belong to these cabals, hence the secrecy. When Bill Clinton eased banking restrictions, he dished out $8-billion dollars for “community reinvestment loans.”

    When the financing schemes fell through, as is their wont whenever 30-million Mexican nationals buy inflated properties and default, it left banks in the lurch. Hillary Clinton counted on the Politically Correct loan giveaways to buy votes. Interestingly enough, had Hillary secured the nomination; she, instead of Barack Obama would preside over the bailout. So, where’s that $8-bilion plus dollars? Where’s Hillary? Why the caveat in Section 8 of the bailout: “Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency?”

    The Global Initiative people (code speak for car thieves) took my money; they did in fact steal my car. If you or I did half the things these people have done, we’d be serving consecutive life sentences. Wise up, get angry, and let the bubble burst. Besides, a bailout guarantees nothing. We’re going to be just fine. You have my word on it. “You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.” –Andrew Jackson, to fraudulent financiers, 1832. Gentlemen, I want my money back:

    Peggy McGilligan (e731ec)

  70. Now that the Senate has passed the 700 billon bailout has Wall Streets destiny been sealed?

    Chris Hutcherson (4f8f8f)

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