Patterico's Pontifications

9/26/2008

Open Thread on the Debate

Filed under: 2008 Election — WLS @ 6:15 pm



Posted by WLS:

I don’t like the way this has started.

McCain is too passive on these issues.  Obama has no reluctance to point the finger at Bush Admin. policies as being the cause of the current financial problem when that’s simply untrue.

McCain then reaches back in history to Eisenhower, and then in speaking on the idea of accountability he pulls out the ……. populism card?!?!?!?!?!?

C’mon John.  The record is clear that Dems in the Senate stymied the regulatory reform of Fannie/Freddie that you proposed.  And you let it go completely unmentioned.

138 Responses to “Open Thread on the Debate”

  1. Man Obama’s just spitting out the same old stump speech crap as he has all campaign. Does he ever deviate from the script?

    gabriel (180095)

  2. Isn’t it McNeil’s job to keep this debate on topic, and isn’t the topic supposed to be foreign affairs? I understand that this is the topic of the week, but we’re now 20 minutes in and we’re talking about tax policy.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  3. Obama has much more to gain from the debate than McCain does.

    McCain is already known by voters to have leadership skills, so McCain demonstrating yet again that he can lead will not gain him significant support.

    By contrast, Obama demonstrating that he can lead, as well as speak, can gain him significant support.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  4. I think for the first time we are seeing here that McCain really doesn’t like Obama. He see’s Obama for what he is — a machine pol who is exactly the type of feckless politician whose responsible for Washington being in the condition it is now.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  5. WLS, I heard earlier that they had agreed to spend the first half hour on current economic situation.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  6. Baracky sure is loose with the facts.

    JD (d5bd6e)

  7. So far, this looks like a debate Obama will “win” in the instant flash polls, but maybe lose a few days from now when everyone has had time to pick all the statements apart. Cf. the first Bush-Kerry debate in 2004, where Bush performed horribly, and Kerry proudly announced the “global test” that later came back to bite him.

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  8. JD, he’s a brazen liar.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  9. It’s 9:34 and not much debate about national security/defense.

    The debate is rigged against McCain!

    Joking.

    I’m biased but McCain is sucking.

    And the spending freeze just came out. Good luck with that one!

    jharp (f4bed7)

  10. So far, ZerObama is coming across as a condensing ass.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  11. Baracky is likely the first person ever to say orgy in a Presidential debate.

    JD (868cea)

  12. So far, ZerObama is coming across as a condensing ass.”

    Basically playing to the base. This year, it’s the Undecideds. They have to vote or stay at home.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  13. I would love for Barack to explain how it was politically risky to oppose the war from the Illinois legislature in one of the most liberal districts in the state.

    JD (868cea)

  14. McCain’s not doing much of a job, but sheesh, Obama is really doing a lousy job for the brilliant orator he’s supposed to be. Insipid and vapid is all we are getting.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  15. SPQR – I agree with your assessment.

    JD (868cea)

  16. What did you expect? The guy’s lost without his teleprompter; I’ve never heard so many “uhhh’s” and “ahhh’s” in my life – and that includes that great orator, GWB. Wait until the Townhall debate – he’ll look like a deer caught in the headlights.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  17. No AQ in Iraq prior to 2003? McCain refuses to call Baracky on his brazen lies, and it pisses me off.

    JD (868cea)

  18. JD, remember how Mac waits. Like with some of the outrageous BHO stuff during the primary. Timing seems to be his M of O.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  19. McCain said “is the chairperson of a committee that oversights NATO that’s in Afghanistan.”

    Quick, someone FactCheck McCain, for not knowing that “oversight” is a noun, not a verb.

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  20. I can’t believe that our two candidates for President are comparing bracelets.

    Cyrus Sanai (4df861)

  21. Here is a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought down Wall Street.

    Franklin Raines was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae’s accounting activities. At the time of his departure The Wall Street Journal noted, “Raines, who long defended the company’s accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn’t proper, issued a statement late Tuesday conceding that “mistakes were made” and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake up its management in the wake of findings that the company’s books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years.”
    Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.

    Read it all.

    Just more fun for current events.

    TC (f398ed)

  22. Like it or not, Obama appears far more comfortable – just as JFK did 48 years ago.

    JSM is killing on facts, but it sounds like Obama is authoritive – AND – he is selling NOT sending our troops into harms way.

    The average voter is giving this to BHO.

    Ed (385e88)

  23. Uh ummm uh huh ummmm uh huh … sending Madeline to dance with the North Koreans was great diplomacy.

    JD (90efaf)

  24. I really do not care for this Baracky person.

    JD (90efaf)

  25. AND – he is selling NOT sending our troops into harms way.

    I see a McCain ad on that whopper. Obama negotiated with leaders to stall the troops, delay their return and put them in harm’s way. All to push the timeline for his win. The media sure let that one slip by, pals of his that they are. /wink

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  26. Does Obama realize that GWB is not his debate opponent?

    The interview with Kissenger will be interesting.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  27. We have to rebuild the Georgian economy?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  28. So then, Barack, why not Nuclear Power?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  29. Clean coal? Not according to your VP.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  30. This debate really should have been about the economy. Very few people watching this debate care about the subject matter; they’re all watching for the form the candidates are using. Obama is the more relaxed, articulate of the two, so he wins on that level.

    That said, he pisses me off when he interrupts McCain. That’s really irritating, his “no’s” and “uh-uh’s” while McCain is talking.

    Phil (3b1633)

  31. Barack predicted that Russia would invade Georgia??!!??!!

    JD (d5bd6e)

  32. McCain should avoid the word bridge at all costs.

    Dana (4d3ea0)

  33. My Better Half thinks that Baracky sounds better, so long as you are not paying attention to the actual words.

    JD (d5bd6e)

  34. He can pronounce nuclear. That’s something.

    Dana (4d3ea0)

  35. America is safer today than it was on 9/11, partially due to the fact that the US has shown that it won’t sit and simply play defense.

    Barack does not seem to understand that.

    He believes in missile defense because he won’t deal with N.Korea and Iran.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  36. CNN has been running the focus group dials undernath the coverage. Maverick doing fine with Indies.

    Karl (1b4668)

  37. You are 100% correct Vermont.

    But, the practical result will be a BHO win tonight. The typical undecided voter got a headache tonight and will tune out until the VP debate. All BHO really needed tonight was a draw. Thanks to the first THIRTY-NINE minutes of this fiasco being devoted to the economy, he achieved this.

    Ed (385e88)

  38. Yes. Perceived in the world. As proactive.

    Just ask Quadaffi.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  39. If Obama managed to piss of Phil, the debate must be going better than I thought. This is the same Phil, right?

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  40. Barack seems to equate Al Queda with Bin Laden. It’s not an Austin Powers movie.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  41. Actually, JM did quite well with the CNN focus group on the economic questions.

    That said, if BO comes off passably, it helps him.

    Karl (1b4668)

  42. Barack should avoid math and science education talk, especially due to the fact that he bypassed it to funnel money in the Annenberg fiasco.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  43. …funnel money to ACORN in the Annenberg fiasco.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  44. And BO just walked into it on veterans.

    Karl (1b4668)

  45. On the job training…heh.

    No. Your name was Barry for a long time.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  46. Baracky is as deep as a puddle.

    JD (707046)

  47. Barack’s blowing the ‘shining city on a hill’ speech. America isn’t good enough yet?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  48. Can you imagine the awesome power of having somebody who speaks as persuasively as Obama, with a truly fiscally conservative mindset? Someone who could persuade the Democrats that, say, free markets were truly a benefit, and not just a tool for the rich?

    But no, free markets get wheezy Ron Paul, and bespectacled Milton Friedman. Populism gets John Edwards and Obama. The world is insane.

    Phil (3b1633)

  49. Cindy McCain must have on a $300,000,000 dress.

    Did her company provide the beer at the concession stand in the lobby? You know that’s where they’re all headed.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  50. XRLQ, it is the same Phil who thinks McCain is a war-loving nutjob. I’ve just grown somewhat affectionate of the old coot since he and the Republicans have been standing up to Bush and the Democrats over the bailout the past few days.

    Phil (3b1633)

  51. I am watching MSNBC. My blood pressure is going through the roof.

    JD (388d32)

  52. Can you imagine the awesome power of having somebody who speaks as persuasively as Obama, with a truly fiscally conservative mindset?

    Yes. Ronald Reagan.

    Someone who could persuade the Democrats that, say, free markets were truly a benefit, and not just a tool for the rich?

    That was Milton Friedman. If the Democrats weren’t convinced by him, they’ll never be convinced.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  53. MSNBC and FNC both have people talking about the number of times Obama said McCain was right.

    That’s an ad.

    Karl (1b4668)

  54. I am watching MSNBC. My blood pressure is going through the roof.

    JD – I’m watching the live feed of the empty stage. It’s more informative.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  55. Baracky did not say anything that was not already in his stump speech.

    JD (388d32)

  56. JD:

    I am watching MSNBC.

    Ah, so you’re the one!

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  57. ROTFL, I go to msnbc.com, and their blurb on the debates says:

    McCain scores on Obama’s record on holding Senate hearings on Afghanistan — but it’s a bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    They did NOT just say that . . .

    Phil (3b1633)

  58. nk has the ad!

    That’s rapid response, baby.

    Karl (1b4668)

  59. nk – You have to hand it to McCain’s team. That’s amazing.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  60. That was Milton Friedman. If the Democrats weren’t convinced by him, they’ll never be convinced.

    If they saw him. I’m not knocking the great man, he’s who persuaded me.

    Phil (3b1633)

  61. Biden is talking now, “the Surge was a tactic, not a strategy” and “John McCain has been dead wrong on Iraq”.

    Beyond the obvious idiocy of those statements, does it make any sense to anyone for Obama/Biden to tell the American people they are wrong for being more optimistic about Iraq that McCain has helped to secure?

    Teflon Don (0d1e49)

  62. MSNBC: Raaaaacist.

    Karl (1b4668)

  63. McCain won this. Outright.

    Obama was not on target tonight, and he stumbled badly. He got flustered, and McCain knew it.

    Things are looking up.

    And you, all of you, Nattering Nabobs of Negativity will have to get on board.

    Badger (1808e2)

  64. Didn’t anyone teach them that the preferred phrase is “the pot calling the kettle African-American?”

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  65. Thanks goes to Ace, guys. Click on the link in my comment #51.

    There’s no way Obama is going to out-jiu-jitsu McCain in any debate and Obama knows it and is running scared.

    nk (796b84)

  66. 1st mccain ad on the debates is already out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc

    h0mi (d2c7b6)

  67. #51 ad – terrific, to the point. Love the gold semi-halo behind Obama….a dig at the not-ready messiah??? Hmmmmm….

    Dana (4d3ea0)

  68. CNN is worse than MSNBC. Why am I doing this to myself?

    JD (388d32)

  69. Phil – If they saw him.

    Friedman lived to be 94. It’s not like he was hiding the whole time. Missing a chance to see Milton Friedman is like not having had enough time to see Cats!

    Apogee (366e8b)

  70. Never saw Friedman, but saw Buckminster Fuller once – amazing lecture. Also missed Deming, another lament of mine.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  71. Teflon Don #60 – Biden is talking now,…

    You would think the Obama campaign would have Biden in a ‘secure location’.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  72. Dmac – did you see Cats!?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  73. A strong performance from both candidates, the best debate I’ve seen since Kennedy-Nixon (yep, I’m old).

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  74. Obama. Rocked. THis, foreign policy was McCain’s to lose and he lost cos he couldn’t shut up and went on too long every single time….

    Peter (e70d1c)

  75. Yeah, I saw that farkin’ show – hated it.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  76. Luntz focus group on Fox – Obama won about 2-1. Obama “cared about us.” JSM was “antagonistic.”

    BHO won, folks.

    Ed (385e88)

  77. …and that was back in ’85.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  78. I could only take 5 minutes of Olberdouchenozzle.

    JD (d5bd6e)

  79. Question for Obama:
    how does it feel to get beat at a debate by a guy who is almost twice your age and has ten times your experience?

    ML (14488c)

  80. Dmac – I actually didn’t have enough time to see it.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  81. Ed – I agree. However, if you actually listened to what they said, rather than how it sounded …

    JD (d5bd6e)

  82. Touche’. And I believe I just heard Juan Williams dissing Obama’s performance, big – time.

    Juan Williams? Uh, oh…

    Dmac (e639cc)

  83. Debate Summary:
    McCain: I have been there and done that. I have been involved in serious global issues for 25 years, fought excess spending and can face up to dangerous enemies. I am ready.
    Obama: I am ready too.
    McCain: No, you are not, you naive and dangerous tool.

    Travis Monitor (cfa2f1)

  84. Only the undecideds were up for grabs tonight, and I think they would lean towards Obama. He seemed less phlegmatic than usual. He gave the appearance of strength, even if he intends to morph back into Jimmy Carter once he is in office.

    McCain could have scored a KO if he had raised the issue of the CRA when Obama talked about Wall street greed, but I guess loans to flakes of a different color is the third rail of politics tonight.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  85. The genius insight of David Gergen: “The real question now is how undecided voters will come out.”

    Karl (1b4668)

  86. So what exactly will Obama cut out of his proposed budget because of the banking crisis?

    Roy Mustang (a7923d)

  87. I almost am willing to believe there is someone out there who has blackmail power over all of the major players and limits what can be said.

    Obama talks about the failed economic policies of the Bush Administration and the repub. failure to regulate Wall Street as the cause of the current mess.

    Right there McCain should have referred in detail to his attempts to regulate Freddie and Fanny, how the Dems stood in the way, how “even Bill Clinton knows that is the case”, and “I’ve never taken a penny from them and you lead the Senate having received $130,000+. And he should have done it looking straight at Obama.

    I would have expected that direct blow would have stunned OB and knocked the wind from his sails for a second.

    When Obama said something about needing to be careful about sending troops into battle, McCain should have looked at him and said, “You don’t need to tell me about the risks of sending young men into battle.”

    When Obama talked about how his father came to the US from Kenya because the world thought the US was such a great place, but the world doesn’t think that way anymore McCain should have said, “Then why have millions of people come to the United States even when they have to break the law to get in? We can’t even get people to emigrate from the US when they promised to when George Bush was reelected.”

    When Obama talks about opposing the invasion into Iraq McCain should have said, “You were a state Senator in Illinois with zero knowledge of US intelligence reports, how the h— did you know enough to have an informed opinion?”

    Obama complains about inadequate US attention in Afghanistan? “Sen. Obama, you and others have bitterly criticised our policies in Iraq, claiming we didn’t rely enough on our allies. If you had called any meetings of your sub-committee on NATO then maybe you would have realized that in Afghanistan we have been relying on our NATO allies and they haven’t lived up to their resp0onsibilities. If we need to send more US troops there it is because other countries aren’t living up to their commitments, the same countries you want us to depend on more”.

    Obama, “We’ve taken our eyes off of Al Qaeda and Afghanistan by focusing on Iraq”.
    McCain, “As you have said yourself, the president should be able to do more than one thing at a time. Do you really believe that the president, his Sec.s of State and Defense, his NSA, the joint chiefs of staff, the chain of command of the US military, and all of our intelligence assets have been ignoring Al Qaeda all of these years because their capacities are that limited?”

    On going after bin Laden, incursion into Pakistan, etc., “Sen. Obama, you have not been privileged to have access to the kind of intelligence reports that you would need to if you wanted to say anything meaningful on the topic. And if I have my way, no one who associates with domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers will ever get that privilege.”

    If Lloyd Benson blew away Dan Quail with his, “You’re no JFK”, I think a few of those remarks would have been pretty devastating to Obama.

    It appeared to me that Obama was more angry at McCain (jaw muscles clenching, intensity of eyes), and McCain was more dismissive of Obama. Which appealed better to observers??

    My main disappointment, however, was not knowing ahead of time that Gov. Palin was here in Philly and was going to watch the debate at the Irish Pub. I would have loved to have a front row seat to give fighting instructions.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  88. Roy – you should buy Lehrer a beer and commiserate. He asked that question a number of times and ways. Obama still didn’t answer.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  89. The big question is,

    what was Obama’s “um” count.

    ML (14488c)

  90. #84, he won’t be cutting spending for early education because that is vitally important to our nation’s success.

    Dana (4d3ea0)

  91. “Very few people watching this debate care about the subject matter”

    Actually the debate on foreign issues was MORE interesting than the bailout topic.

    It was a big loss for Obama because his whole campaign was about McCain=Bush. But McCain debunked that connection in so many ways – on the 9/11 commission, disagreement on Iraq, criticizing Bush admin on financial crisis.

    Moreover, we see a trend. Obama is STUBBORN. Wrong on the surge but wont admit change. Wrong on his ‘meet with rogue dictators without preconditions’ but tries to drag in Kissinger(!!) and McCain incredulously calls him on it.

    McCain came close to saying it: OBAMA IS THE NEW BUSH.

    Travis Monitor (cfa2f1)

  92. The “I don’t even have a presidential seal” line seems to me to be the soundbite the pundits couldn’t find.
    But MCain failed to drive a stake through Obama’s heart with a “There you go again” on his insistence that AlQaida is “resurgent, strong as ever.” Bullshit, the Taliban, maybe, but not Al Qaida–by their own admission and those of intelligence agencies. It could have sealed the election and he missed it.

    cbullitt (ff2d6c)

  93. Wouldn’t it be weird if the Vice Presidential debate has “the” gaffe that sways the election?

    DRJ (c953ab)

  94. Well, I “posted” something over 1/2 hour ago and it hasn’t appeared, I’ll try again in pieces. Apology ahead of time if repeat.

    (I agree with Travis, McCain’s tossing the “stubborn” mantra in Obama’s direction was great, but it didn’t appear that BO enjoyed the joke.)

    “Previous, Part I”

    I almost am willing to believe there is someone out there who has blackmail power over all of the major players and limits what can be said.

    Obama talks about the failed economic policies of the Bush Administration and the repub. failure to regulate Wall Street as the cause of the current mess.

    Right there McCain should have referred in detail to his attempts to regulate Freddie and Fanny, how the Dems stood in the way, how “even Bill Clinton knows that is the case”, and “I’ve never taken a penny from them and you lead the Senate having received $130,000+. And he should have done it looking straight at Obama.

    I would have expected that direct blow would have stunned OB and knocked the wind from his sails for a second.

    When Obama said something about needing to be careful about sending troops into battle, McCain should have looked at him and said, “You don’t need to tell me about the risks of sending young men into battle.”

    When Obama talked about how his father came to the US from Kenya because the world thought the US was such a great place, but the world doesn’t think that way anymore McCain should have said, “Then why have millions of people come to the United States even when they have to break the law to get in? We can’t even get people to emigrate from the US when they promised to when George Bush was reelected.”

    When Obama talks about opposing the invasion into Iraq McCain should have said, “You were a state Senator in Illinois with zero knowledge of US intelligence reports, how the h— did you know enough to have an informed opinion?”

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  95. I listened to it in the car and thought Obama did well. Better than I expected. One commenter said he has improved since the primary debates. I agree. Still, I don’t think this will have a large effect. I also agree that the VP debate will now be very important. Two females on NRO have now written negative comments on her, which is disappointing. She has to appear more relaxed than she has in the two hostile interviews. Obama lied a lot and ads will probably show this up but it is on Palin’s shoulders now. I’d call it a draw tonight.

    Mike K (155601)

  96. I too think like this “McCain is too passive on these issues.”

    Sachin (1c2bf9)

  97. word was out that Obama would try and bail John into some kind of angry moment.

    The One was reduced to looking peeved when John would laugh at him.

    Darleen (187edc)

  98. I just thought of something else-

    Did Obama seriously call the Republican Guard a “terrorist organization”?

    I thought the debate question was about Iran- why are we talking about the elite Iraqi unit that the 3rd ID and Marines crushed way back in the Thunder Run?

    Teflon Don (0d1e49)

  99. Teflon Don – good catch.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  100. Senator Obama mentions his Kenyan father very often. His whole identity seems to revolve around those roots. Very interesting considering the father abandoned Obama at a very early age.

    He is a really interesting psychological specimen.

    heritage (c05e2c)

  101. I think McCain took Barack out to the woodshed and opened up a can. When they got there, just before the whooping, Baracky said, “Hey, who’s that guy over there, he’s like, umm, ahh, err, all bloody and shit.”

    McCain said; “That’s John Edwards, remember when Dick Cheney took him out here? Well, it’s your turn now.”

    PC14 (ec0516)

  102. He is a really interesting psychological specimen.

    So are his supporters.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  103. I looked at Washington Monthly and they seem pretty subdued. I expected to see chest beating about how great Obama did and that may mean that McCain did better then I expected. Maybe seeing it was more effective. The word before the debate was that Obama was going to try to goad him into an angry outburst. Instead people seemed to feel Obama looked angry. I was waiting for McCain to say something about the Annennberg Challenge when Obama brought up education but maybe he is leaving that to another debate.

    Mike K (155601)

  104. The genius insight of David Gergen: “The real question now is how undecided voters will come out.”

    Wow. Whatever he’s paid for his insight, it’s too much.

    Clear win by McCain. 7-1. Why?

    For me, it sealed a few things:

    1. McCain for all is faults is NOT Bush. He will be a very different President from Bush.

    2. Obama really IS a socialist. He tries to hide it with campaign rehtoric but it came through in his very dishonest description of the last 8 years and why it was wrong. Obama has blasted the free-market thinking that has prevailed since the Reagan era.

    3. McCain is ready to be President.

    4. Obama is NOT. McCain went after on a number of issues and all Obama could do was bleat about Iraq. My God he is a one-note Barack on blaming everything on Iraq. get over it. Its clear that Obama will NOT do Iraq right because he’s made our involvement there such a scapegoat he will HAVE to get out on his strict (and unwarranted) timetable even if it is a bad idea.

    5. OBAMA IS THE NEW BUSH. McCain was right. There is a stubbornness in the Obama that is a lot like Bush, just a leftwing liberal version of it. Its the ideology vs pragmatism aspect of things.

    Travis Monitor (cfa2f1)

  105. “I thought the debate question was about Iran- why are we talking about the elite Iraqi unit that the 3rd ID and Marines crushed way back in the Thunder Run?”

    The discussion was over the IRANIAN Republican Guards. Who are acting like a 5th column for insurgents and Mookie’s troublemakers in Iraq.

    And BTW, I think it is a plot by the New York Times to get all the Bad Guys around the world described as “Republican” or “conservative”. 😉

    Travis Monitor (cfa2f1)

  106. One thing I picked up on…when McCain use Obama’s previous statements or stands on issues against him, Obama wold drop his head and shake it, almost like he knew he has said it, but couldn’t deal with it…Also, would try to “butt in” when McCain was talking, at one time muttering “that’s not true” loud enough to be picked up by the microphone.

    McCain seemed to focus in on Leher when he answered questions, should have looked at Obama when he was using O’s previous statements on foreign affairs issues. Did not get angry with O at all…maintained his composure pretty well. Got O to agree with him on issues, new ad released by McCain camp should go over pretty good.

    Edge – McCain

    fmfnavydoc (0dd45c)

  107. Right there McCain should have referred in detail to his attempts to regulate Freddie and Fanny, how the Dems stood in the way, how “even Bill Clinton knows that is the case”, and “I’ve never taken a penny from them and you lead the Senate having received $130,000+. And he should have done it looking straight at Obama.

    I agree, and when I saw that huge missed opportunity, I was fearful McCain would have an off night. But then McCain lit up on earmarks and spending and kept getting stronger throughout the debate into the finish, making point after point.

    BTW, people are asking about the “GAFFE THAT SEALS THE ELECTION.” Obama MADE THAT GAFFE. It was about his lie that Kissinger would back him up about meeting foreign leaders without preconditions.

    No Way.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/tws_exclusive_kissinger_unhapp.asp
    “My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality.”

    NOW WATCH WHILE THE MSM COVERS THIS GAFFE 24/7 FOR THE NEXT WEEK …. NOT.

    Travis Monitor (cfa2f1)

  108. There was a whole body vibe thing going on. When O!bama spoke, he sort of leaned toward McCain, looking for affirmation, acceptance. And all the while, McCain just stared straight ahead, sort of enduring the bullshit.

    When McCain spoke, they went to split screen, never when O!bama spoke. The split screen showed Baracky anxious, almost eye rolling and impatient, as if saying, “Hey McCain, you can’t say that shit about me. I’m the chosen one.”

    I think a lot of Obamabots and independents are going to be very surprised by O’s performance as most know him as the on stage dude, speaking to the heavens with the help of the telepromter. And seeing him for the first time without the benefit of the prepared message is going to be a let down.

    Additionally, those who have bought into the MSM hype of Obamamessiah probably expected Obama to inflict some damage to old John McCain.

    I’m sure O! let down a lot of the folks and many of the undecideds are saying to themselves, “so what’s the big deal?”

    PC14 (ec0516)

  109. Mike K,

    I think seeing Obama on TV showed him as more irritated than he probably sounded. He grimaced occasionally, gestured frequently when he wanted to interrupt or respond, and generally seemed more frustrated than his voice alone showed.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  110. @Travis Monitor, #102

    I’m pretty familiar with the details on Iran’s handiwork in Iraq (probably far more intimately than you). Thanks.

    The “terrorist organization” that Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama were referring to is the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution, know in America as the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps or IRGC.

    It’s a relatively easy mistake to make, and I haven’t seen a transcript of the debate yet so it’s possible that Sen. McCain got the group wrong as well. I’m 99% sure I heard Sen. Obama get it wrong.

    Teflon Don (0d1e49)

  111. Obama came off as a smooth polished pundit

    So did, Clinton, Gore, Carter, Kerry

    None of those guys “won an election” between 2 people

    Carter had the Nixon Veto thing giving him the slight edge like a phantom 3rd party conservative candidate

    Clinton didn’t come close to “winning” those elections if Ross Perot hadn’t shown up

    Gore, Kerry smacked Bush around fairly severely but

    On Election day – with the fate of the country in the balance

    Would you pick the serious military guy or the warm fluffy politician?

    EricPWJohnson (d2733c)

  112. The MSM, obamabots, kosbots went GREEN as they watched this, or selectively heard what they wanted to hear.

    Then, faced with the choice of accepting or ignoring reality, they chose to ignore the truth and declare Obama the winner.

    Obama was trite, pandering, defensive, smug, and at times belligerent.

    Johnnymac controlled the message, danced with the questions and kept things humorous. Even the audience laughed at times.

    Obama didn’t have anything. McCain won this, anyone denying it is deluding themselves of reality.

    kal (4db540)

  113. Missed “Mr Green” opportunity:

    Obama (defending his proposed spending): “I think those are pretty important priorities. And I pay for every dime of it.”

    Missed interjection: “No, Senator, those people out there (sweeping hand), THEY pay for every dime of it. And they pay too damn much!”

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  114. Posts not coming through?!?

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  115. Missed “Mr Green” opportunity:

    Obama (defending his proposed spending): “I think those are pretty important priorities. And I pay for every dime of it.”

    Missed interjection: “No, Senator, those people out there (sweeping hand), THEY pay for every dime of it. And they pay too darn much!”

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  116. I don’t like the way this has started.

    I agree. The first 15-20 minutes from McCain were WEAK.

    But after that, he took off.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  117. McCain won, no contest. For starters, all he had to do was to prove that he is not “old”.

    Peripherally, over a period of 30+ years, I never saw the “bespectacled” Milton Freidman ever wearing glasses, even in his late 80’s. I never heard him hesitate in his speech or correct or nuance anything he said to the public, which was, therefore, always very straightforward: Freidman always said exactly what he meant. Now, that’s a Man, imo. Compare.

    Btw, Freidman, when asked to define a “Communist”, simply said, ~ “A Communist is someone who, when faced with a problem, always blames someone.” [my rememberance of a TV appearance by Freidman, circa 1995] Imo, he could have also been describing pre-Enlightenment witch hunters, or those believing and/or making a living on that very model today.

    J. Peden (8fb6f3)

  118. I guess I wasn’t the only one who had problems getting through (see #115).
    We’ll try once more this am to finish the comment. (I don’t know if it’s the Dems or the KGB…)

    Part 2 from Fri. PM

    Obama complains about inadequate US attention in Afghanistan? “Sen. Obama, you and others have bitterly criticised our policies in Iraq, claiming we didn’t rely enough on our allies. If you had called any meetings of your sub-committee on NATO then maybe you would have realized that in Afghanistan we have been relying on our NATO allies and they haven’t lived up to their resp0onsibilities. If we need to send more US troops there it is because other countries aren’t living up to their commitments, the same countries you want us to depend on more”.

    Obama, “We’ve taken our eyes off of Al Qaeda and Afghanistan by focusing on Iraq”.
    McCain, “As you have said yourself, the president should be able to do more than one thing at a time. Do you really believe that the president, his Sec.s of State and Defense, his NSA, the joint chiefs of staff, the chain of command of the US military, and all of our intelligence assets have been ignoring Al Qaeda all of these years because their capacities are that limited?”

    On going after bin Laden, incursion into Pakistan, etc., “Sen. Obama, you have not been privileged to have access to the kind of intelligence reports that you would need to if you wanted to say anything meaningful on the topic. And if I have my way, no one who associates with domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers will ever get that privilege.”

    If Lloyd Benson blew away Dan Quail with his, “You’re no JFK”, I think a few of those remarks would have been pretty devastating to Obama.

    It appeared to me that Obama was more angry at McCain (jaw muscles clenching, intensity of eyes), and McCain was more dismissive of Obama. Which appealed better to observers??

    My main disappointment, however, was not knowing ahead of time that Gov. Palin was here in Philly and was going to watch the debate at the Irish Pub. I would have loved to have a front row seat to give fighting instructions.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  119. Testing, 1, 2…

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  120. Never did get all of my post in last night, #115 suggests others had problems too.

    Trying again, Part 2 from last night
    (Why didn’t McCain smack down BO? Why didn’t he say the following?)

    Obama complains about inadequate attention to Afghanistan =>
    “Sen. Obama, you and others have criticised our efforts in Iraq as not in enough cooperation with our allies. If you had called any meetings of your subcommittee on NATO then you may have learned that our NATO allies in Afghanistan have not adequately fulfilled their responsibilities in sending troops. If we send more troops there it is because the other countries you want us to work with aren’t all coming through.
    Obama complains about inadequate US attention in Afghanistan? “Sen. Obama, you and others have bitterly criticised our policies in Iraq, claiming we didn’t rely enough on our allies. If you had called any meetings of your sub-committee on NATO then maybe you would have realized that in Afghanistan we have been relying on our NATO allies and they haven’t lived up to their resp0onsibilities. If we need to send more US troops there it is because other countries aren’t living up to their commitments, the same countries you want us to depend on more”.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  121. Part 3
    Continued- “In fact, sometimes it seems you just want to oppose any plan put forth by Republicans. We saw the need to stop the threat that Saddam posed, you didn’t. We need to finish the job in Iraq, and you want to send troops into Afghanistan, where the responsibility is NATO’s. We’re concerned about Iran, you speak of going into Pakistan, an ally, without their approval.

    Obama, “We’ve taken our eyes off of Al Qaeda and Afghanistan by focusing on Iraq”.
    McCain, “As you have said yourself, the president should be able to do more than one thing at a time. Do you really believe that the president, his Sec.s of State and Defense, his NSA, the joint chiefs of staff, the chain of command of the US military, and all of our intelligence assets have been ignoring Al Qaeda all of these years because their capacities are that limited?”

    On Obama wanting to go after bin Laden, incursion into Pakistan, etc., “Sen. Obama, you have not been privileged to have access to the kind of intelligence reports that you would need to if you wanted to say anything meaningful on the topic. And if I have my way, no one who associates with domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers will ever get that privilege.”

    If Lloyd Benson blew away Dan Quail with his, “You’re no JFK”, I think a few of those remarks would have been pretty devastating to Obama.

    It appeared to me that Obama was more angry at McCain (jaw muscles clenching, intensity of eyes), and McCain was more dismissive of Obama. Which appealed better to observers??

    My main disappointment, however, was not knowing ahead of time that Gov. Palin was here in Philly and was going to watch the debate at the Irish Pub. I would have loved to have a front row seat to give fighting instructions.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  122. I will preface my comment by noting that I missed the first 15 minutes. The debate was very similar to the Cheney-Lieberman debate. On one hand a person who is very knowledgable, articulate, reserved, thoughtfull, and with substantial wisdom, an understanding of the ramifications of policy choices based on knowledge and understanding of the actual dynamic vs someone armed only with campaign talking points and very obvious display of lack of any substantive knowledge on the subject.

    Joe - Dallas (d7c430)

  123. The commenter who mentioned Obama’s constant mutterings in opposition to McCain’s statements is correct about his behavior being akin to Gore’s. Not looking too Presidential right there, more grade school playground crapola.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  124. Obama’s muttering, facial gestures, and hand signals seemed like the signs of a pampered child. I don’t think he’s ever had to stand up for himself, not on the playground, and not in later life.

    Boys who grow up abandoned by both parents suffer from a range of insecurities, many of which center around a confused gender identity. Obama is rather typical in seeking out domineering women and exploitative father figures.

    Ropelight (f4b89a)

  125. Good point – let’s review the cast of mentors for The Messiah over the years: Rev. Wright, Emil Jones, John Stroger, Mayor Daley, Gov. Blago. Ooof.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  126. Dmac, you’ve got to start much earlier. To hit the high spots, first it was his maternal grandfather, then Frank Marshall Davis in Hawaii, and then domestic terrorist Bill Ayres.

    Obama’s grandfather, Stanley Dunham, named his daughter “Stanley” because he wanted a boy. That caused great upset and termoil. She was never quite able to establish much balance or stability in her life. She went off to Hawaii for college and almost immediately met the senior Obama and was soon pregnant with Barrack.

    Davis, a black poet, newspaper writer, and Communist Party USA member, was a close friend of Obama’s grandfather in Hawaii. Davis was an outspoken critic of US domestic and foreign policy. He was especially critical of race relations and labor issues. Davis was also a heavy drinker and a sexual pervert, who wrote about his sexual aberrations under an assumed name.

    Davis was “highly influential” in the early life of Barrak Obama, although the Obama campaign has attempted to play down their relationship and to disguise the nature and the extent of the many influences Davis exerted over the youthful Obama. However, it is indisputable that Davis was the single most consistently present black male figure during Obama’s formative years.

    Ayres is also a self acknowledged pervert. As part of his activities as a Weatherman, he engaged in both polyamory and homosexuality (as a matter of politics, what ever the hell that means).

    Part of Ayres activities in the Weatherman Organization involved attempting to establish an elite white fighting force combined with the Black Liberation Movement in order to smash US imperialism and bring about a communist takeover.

    I can only speculate at this point, but it seems highly likely to me that Ayres would have been well familiar with the works of Obama’s friend and mentor, Frank Marshall Davis.

    Barrak Obama left Occidental college in Los Angeles in August ’81 and went to Columbia in NYC. Ayres was in NYC at that time going to Bank Street College, and later Columbia. Did the two meet then, I don’t know, but Obama had already decided he wanted to be a “community organizer” in the radical tradition of Saul Alinksy. Ayres would have been impressed with Obama, and Ayres had the money, interest, and connections to make Obama’s dreams come true.

    Ropelight (f4b89a)

  127. Here’s John McCain’s newsletter entry following the debate (entitled ‘Back to Washington’). I like how he refers to the next president in general terms. Unlike Obama, who keeps claiming the office as his, podium and all, as though election day were but a petty nuisance.

    My Friends,

    Tonight, Senator Obama and I participated in the first debate of the general election. It was a spirited debate and I believe the difference between our visions for America were made very clear.

    In a few hours, I will return to Washington to resume negotiations with the Administration and Congressional leaders from both parties to forge a bipartisan solution to our economic crisis. I am optimistic we will come to a final agreement soon. All voices must be represented in the final agreement, especially those of taxpayers and homeowners.

    We cannot be interested in who would get credit for finding a solution and who would be blamed if an agreement cannot be reached. We must put our country first to solve this economic crisis. Because in the end, that’s what leaders do in times of crisis.

    Our next president and Congress will face challenging times that require selfless leadership. They must find solutions to issues like the economy, national security, and energy independence. I’m ready to work with Governor Palin and our Congressional allies to address the nation’s most pressing challenges. Make no mistake, we are ready to lead and the Obama-Biden Democrats are not.

    But, the truth is that we won’t win without your support. We’re less than 40 days away from Election Day and polls in races across the country are extremely close. In the final weeks of this campaign, we will need to fund crucial get-out-the-vote and grassroots activities that will assist our entire ticket, from the top to the bottom to secure victory on Election Day. I’m asking you to help us by making a contribution right now to McCain-Palin Victory 2008.

    Your support is always deeply appreciated and I thank you for your generosity.
    Sincerely,

    John McCain

    P.S. There are major differences between our shared priorities for our nation and those of the Obama-Biden Democrats. Tonight’s debate made this point very clear. Our entire ticket will always put your needs above our own. And that’s why it is so important for you to get involved today. Please join our team for victory on Election Day. Thank you.

    ========

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  128. Make no mistake, we are ready to lead and the Obama-Biden Democrats are not.

    Because we say so and just STFU and believe what we say and give us more money. Please. Pretty please. We’ll be you’re new best friends and send Sarah to your house to cook you moose burgers and tell you stories about those Russian neighbors of hers up in Alaska.

    McCain Ad: John McCain wins debate!

    Because we say so and just STFU and believe what we say and give us more money. Please. Pretty please. We’ll be you’re new best friends and send Sarah to your house to cook you moose burgers etc…etc…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  129. Peter, it’s not Switzerland. It’s not George Clooney. It’s not Barbra singing in Malibu over a $28,000 plate of chicken.

    But it is traditional fund-raising by and for the candidate.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  130. McCain Ad: John McCain wins debate!

    Hey, it’s OBAMA who changes his promises with the polls. His rhetoric now doesn’t even match when he first started out…

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  131. Hey, it’s OBAMA who changes his promises with the polls.

    No he doesn’t. His campaign has been steady and focused pretty much all they way through. Only time I felt they lost composure was after Palin was announced, but that’s turned out to be false alarm, she’s quickly on her way to becoming a liability for the ticket.

    That constancy is the secret to Obama having beaten Hillary. While her camp was putting out a new message every day to see what would stick and effect the polls, they ended up diluting their momentum. Same thing is happening now with McCain, there is no real over-arching message of substance and so they too have begun the daily stunts and experiments. One can only guess what comes next? Is McCain going to strap on rollerskates this week?

    Peter (e70d1c)

  132. Oh and I meant to add: Obama +8 Gallup

    Peter (e70d1c)

  133. Peter – On the off chance that Obama doesn’t win this, you have taken the precaution of removing all the prescription medication from your premises, have you not?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  134. “His campaign has been steady and focused pretty much all they way through.”

    VOTE NO! to ObamaRezko 2008

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  135. Wait till William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright get special spots in an Obama cabinet. And of course, expect a pardon for Tony Rezko. That’s about the only consistency we can expect.

    He’s changed his mind about the surge, when to remove troops, whether to visit soldiers without a campaign camera to fawn over him, the flip on public funding; Fan-Fred (he was the #2 recipient of funds in a hyper-short period of time). The list is long. It’s posted somewhere. O’s many flip-flops.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  136. Hey

    I hve been hearing lately about credit repairing companies ande the amount of work they get in their busines . One of my cousins is running a credit repair business, I have talked to himn about the busines but. I need more information on this so that I can start my own credit repair business .
    Please do suggest your views on this

    Werner

    FreddyUSs (1abed5)

  137. We witnessed a very crazy day for the stock market yesterday. The DOW plunged 800 points only to come roaring back to close down 370 points. It was breathtaking for many of us because we were glued to our TV (and computer screen) as the stock market kept on going down but for some of us, it didn’t really matter because our focus was on other things.
    Yesterday, I was extremely busy at work. I was so busy that I didn’t have time to check on Yahoo Finance nor did I have time to talk to my coworkers about the stock market. When I finally sat down and looked at how the market was doing, I saw the headline (DOW plunged 800 points and closed at 370) on the homepage. My net worth probably plunged just like any other 350 point down days, but it didn’t matter as much to me.
    I wasn’t emotionally upset this time because I wasn’t “living” the roller coaster. As a result, it hurt my wallet but didn’t hurt my feelings. I felt much better and saved myself from much of the emotions of a down day just by focusing on other parts of my life. I wasn’t thinking about the stock market nor was I worrying about the Cisco (CSCO) shares that I owned.
    I was living my life and not being controlled by the stocks I own. I felt good. In this type of market, maybe you should try it too.
    How did you spend your day yesterday? Did you even know that the stock market plunged? Can you sleep at night these days? If you aren’t worried at all, reply and show some encouragement to those that couldn’t!

    You can now follow me on twitter! Alternatively, subscribe to my RSS feed or get blog posts through email if you enjoyed this post. You might even win a prize or two by doing so!

    http://www.moneyning.com

    Laura Kauffmann
    “Seven Oceans Investments Club”

    soisherfuro (1abed5)


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