No One Covered Themselves In Glory Today Except For The Administration, Which Has The Obligation To Act And Has Plan On The Table (Updated)
[Posted by WLS]
Update — I was purposely provacative in the language I used in this post for the purpose of stimulating some responses on both sides of the issue (all sides??) that would defend the various positions of the parties at the table. I find the discourse in the comments very enlightening to me personally, and I hope others do as well.
Just a very quick take on the events of today.
First, the House GOP caucus was nearly a disgrace today. To say they are standing on “principle” in rejecting the level of government intervention called for in the Administration’s plan is simply laughable. There are plenty of principled GOP market specialists and economists who don’t like what is being proposed, but understand the risk of doing nothing. The market soared early today on expectations that the plan would be passed – so we know the market likes the plan. And like it or not, trillions of dollars in private wealth are tied up in the market capitalization of thousands of publicly traded companies. I expect the market will give the politicians one more day to get their act together, but if there isn’t a plan passed this weekend, Monday’s losses will be enormous.
The House GOP opposition to the plan is driven by one thing and one thing only — constituent complaints. One GOP congressman told a press person yesterday that the calls to his office were running 150-1 against the plan.
So, Rep. Bumkin, from Pitchfork Springs, is going to let his yahoo constituents drive his vote, when neither he nor they have even a hint of understanding about what is going to happen if this deal falls apart. Well, at least he’ll sleep better at night knowing he’ll probably get re-elected. That’s what it’s all about, right?
But, that said, I’ll add this on behalf of the House GOP — they earned the right to stand on the sidelines and demagogue the process underway. They governed like a bunch of buffoons when they had the gavels, and managed to convince the country that it would be better if Pelosi, Dingel, Rangel, Frank, and Conyers ran things. That’s quite an accomplishment.
As for the Democrats — hey Nancy and Steny: you run things now. Being in the majority means having to make hard decisions, while the minority throws spitballs from the peanut gallery. You want a majority of GOP votes for the package?? Too fooking bad. You don’t mind ramming through party-line votes when its chocolate cake for the masses that you want. Well, now the country needs to take its castor oil, and you’ve got the spoon. So, pinch the country’s nose, force it to open wide, and pour the fish oil in.
Welcome to being the majority when hard decisions have to be made. Complaining that the minority isn’t doing any of the heavy lifting is useless. They’re the minority — by definition they don’t have to do anything.
Waiting for the GOP to join you on the firing line is an abdication of your responsibility to govern. The Paulson Plan is on the table. Either pass it or put something in its place, and dare the Admin. to veto that.
But pointing fingers in front of the camera while Rome burns only validates all the predictions about you being a lightweight. I can’t imagine Sam Rayburn or Tip O’Neill — or even Newt Gingrich — doing the same thing.
— WLS
UPDATE BY PATTERICO: WLS, you seem to be under the impression that the Democrats will act in a responsible fashion. That seems like a very poor bet to me.
I think it was a deal that was designed to fall apart, in just the manner we’re seeing it fall apart.
This is not to say there isn’t a ‘plan’ or that there won’t be definite action taken, in a fairly timely manner, to address the sub prime mess. And it likely won’t cost 3/4 of a trillion dollars.
I think W has hit a sacrifice fly. . . Deep. And it may just be the winning run he’s pushing across the plate.
Explaination may be found here
Wind Rider (22ee44) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:01 amThey use to be called “Yellow Dog Democrats.”
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:08 amThey are now “Yellow Tail Democrats.”
Indeed- those nasty fiscal conservatives should be ashamed to stand up against Pelosi and Reid. How dare they oppose giving a plethora of goodies to liberal shakedown artists? What’s a mere twenty percent of $700 billion if it settles the markets? This is according to the michelle malkin blog. Obama’s thugs at ACORN need that dough to fight the good fight. Let’s all go along with the Dodd counterproposal: It promises a minimum of 20% of ‘profits’ from the Treasury’s sale of assets to the Housing Trust Fund and the Capital Magnet Fund.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:11 amDoesn’t it seem logical that the very people who enabled this mess have the opportunity to straighten it out? Something is rotten in D.C. I’m sure the most ethical Congress can figure it out. Once again the trolls can enlighten us as to why Obama is a shining light in this affair, only being #2 in money taken from the fannies/freddies, behind Dodd, but ahead of Lurch Kerry.
um, er, yassuh, let’s trust Treasury Sec. Paulson and give him the ability to make decisions that are NON-REVIEWABLE and COMMITTED TO AGENCY DESCRETION, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. We don’t need no stinkin’ public imput or discourse.
PF — not point in insulting perfectly fine sushi.
WLS (c1b09d) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:36 amYellowtail Shiraz might take umbrage also. The yellowtail dems could serve it with char-grilled beef and potato salad. Or since the Obamamessiah is the main man now, try a Yellowtail Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon with that $100 a pound fancy ham Baracky prefers to a Philly cheese steak. Serve the wine with caviar, arugula and fresh fruit. It would be un-pc, racist and thuggish for me to have suggested a more apropos yellowtail cabernet-merlot, given the BLACKBERRY aromas. I denounce myself. Nobama2008
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:52 amMy neighborhood was 95% white when I graduated high school. Now my grandson is the only child in his class who is not in ESL (English as a Second Language). Illegal immigration on that scale doesn’t bother the political class so why be surprised that they can’t govern? It’s tragic but I really am not surprised.
“The Most Ethical Congress Ever”? Only Pelosi would think that I would believe that line.
tyree (8e01fc) — 9/26/2008 @ 5:17 amThis is what happens when the only skill the dems have is to whine about W. They couldn’t govern their way out of a paper bag. They can throw feces around the cage though….idiots.
paul from fl (12026e) — 9/26/2008 @ 5:59 amI disagree.
It looks like most economists oppose the bailout.
The precedent of bailing out failing companies by government encourages further self-endangering policies. Aggressive investing has risk; there’s a reason that loans get more interest – the borrowers are more risky.
There’s reasonable, principled opposition to this plan. I have at just a little sympathy for the car company bailouts, but I view bailing out investors for bad investments as very bad government practice.
I’m willing to eat some short-term economic harm to prevent a long-term slide into further government indebtedness from mistaken socialism. If no one else will invest in those companies or assets, why should the taxpayers?
Finally, while I may currently live in Pitchfork Springs’ equivalent, many of us who have pretty decent backgrounds in economics oppose the bailout. And, you know, people in Pitchfork Springs are sometimes right.
–JRM
JRM (355c21) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:18 amMaybe you should write up your opposition in a post, JRM.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:24 am“So, Rep. Bumkin, from Pitchfork Springs, is going to let his yahoo constituents drive his vote…”
Really, this is unworthy. Especially of the usually cool WLS!
I actually agree that the plan needs to be passed quickly, but I strongly object to calling the opposition stupid and/or corrupt. It sounds a lot like what I hear from the left side every day: “Yahoo! Bumkin! You couldn’t possibly understand, being from Pitchfork Springs. Shut up and let your overlords decide.”
brobin (c07c20) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:25 amThe bailout plan has become a Christmas tree. Graham said on Greta’s show that Barney Frank has directed a large share of the bailout money to ACORN ! There are rules changes in bankruptcy law. The government gets a share of the bailed out banks. These are far more radical than we are being told. If the Democrats want this to pass, they can pass it. What they want to do is prevent the Republicans from criticizing it later. Gang initiation often involves making the initiate do something illegal, even murder. That ties him to the gang. That is what is going on here.
The people writing this bill are the ones who created the problem. The news media is a co-conspirator in this. Bush has given up. McCain needs to stand firm and tell them that either a clean bill is passed or the Republicans will sit this out and make the case to the people. Pelosi and Reid are more concerned with defeating McCain than saving the banks.
Mike K (2cf494) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:27 amI don’t get what the problem is. The majority party in the House, along with about 50 of the opposition is in favour of this plan. Both parties in the Senate want it, and the White house wants it. Why not just vote? What exactly is the problem that requires getting Boehner, Cantor, &co. in the GOP to be in agreement?
DOuglas2 (62fec6) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:28 am“My Protest”
Thank you, WLS
for educating us,
on this mess.
Listening to constituents
is a good thing, it’s true,
but educating them
is a responsibility too.
A democracy we’re not,
for reasons galore,
a functioning republic
is what the Constitution’s for.
But if promising chickens
for everyone’s pot,
or a toaster that fits
right on that spot,
is the best they can do
when they’ve had their say,
we’ll have no pot to pee in
by the end of the day.
Seizing defeat from the jaws of victory,
my what a treat.
Songs will be sung,
on many a lifeless main street.
Standing on principle is a good thing to do,
but on the wrong principle is like on doggy do-do.
For if they don’t wreck the country first,
by inaction or action,
they’ll turn us all over to friends
of the Weathermen faction.
And then we’ll come to find,
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:28 amoh so true
All of our principles
under bull do-do.
Yeah, to hell with all that democracy stuff. Rep Bumpkin and his hick constituents don’t know jack compared to the almighty Paulson. It’s not like it’s THEIR MONEY or anything.
No More Bailouts!
gp (72be5d) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:33 amIt looks like most economists oppose the bailout.
What do they know? Listen to WLS, he are a jeenius!
j curtis (3c4f3b) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:35 amI’m actually damn proud of the Republicans for standing up and being Republicans for a change. Finally, the government alignments make sense — Bush siding with the Democrats and the Republicans screaming “stop the bleeding!”
Too bad this didn’t happen seven years ago.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:36 amEd has a good post at HA that GOP stalwarts will not like — this is a shared disaster and JQ Bumkin’s rep has been less than honest with their constituents about the root causes and who owns part of the blame.post
voiceofreason2 (590c85) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:40 amThe Christmas tree is growing rapidly as Democrats show their true colors. This is a disaster, and I don’t mean the markets.
Mike K (2cf494) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:43 amPerhaps WLS made a mistake and did his argument a disservice in how he referenced Rep. Bumkin.
It’s not just in Pitchfork Springs that the majority of the public have no idea of the details of these things.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:48 amYeah, $25 billion for the auto industry, Mike….those uber-Democrats!
I’m sure you’re glad to know Senator Obama agrees with you:
Wow, Mike, you and Barack agree!
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:51 amWLS,
What, actually, is the Economy? Is it the BigShinyThing that too often is presented as the OnlyThing? Or is it you and me, times 300 million people?
While I suspect that, by opening bell Monday, the $700 billion bailout will be on Bush’s desk, we do need to start calling out the BigShinyThing pushers’ baloney. These BigShinyThing pushers need to give us TANGIBLE evidence of small businesses that can’t meet payroll without the (favorable interest-rate) short-term loans, for example. Furthermore, should the markets go way down today on news of due diligence being performed by the House GOP, wouldn’t that make Wall Street look like a bunch of whiny brats? Shouldn’t Wall Street start taking the medicine they ask the you-and-me Economy to take?
Brad S (9f6740) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:52 amWhy exactly should the government bail these people out?
Did the government force people to take mortgages that they could not afford? Did they force banks and mortgage companies to loan money to people who could not afford it? Will they starve to death on the streets if we do not bail them out?
Michael Ejercito (a757fd) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:56 amMichael Ejercito, as I understand it from President Bush’s speech on Wednesday:
The banks loaned Americans borrowed too much money, and now they are too poor to pay it back. That has made the banks get suspicious and stop lending people money. So the government is going to buy all of the loans that people can’t pay back, so that the banks will relax and lend people even MORE money.
Because, after all, if people borrowing too much money caused this crisis, the obvious solution is to enable people to borrow more money.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:09 amWhy shouldn’t McCain- or Obama for that matter- reject any bailout and tell the banks to eat their losses?
Pelosi wants a bailout to serve her constituents- the rich San Francisco bankers who vote in her district. But McCain and Obama claim the American people are their constituents. And the American people reject this bailout.
Michael Ejercito (a757fd) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:09 amI’m amazed at how many non-economists are positive that this bailout must occur.
Kevin (5ac156) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:16 amI have been a conservative my entire life but
I am done with the Republican party.
1. Make Government smaller
They have made government bigger then it has ever been in the history of the United States.
2. No Welfare
They are now offering up 400 billion in corporate welfare to bailout rich CEO’s and the Dems are trying to stop the CEO bonuses!!
I am done!!
Time for this lifelong conservative
Dan Hodkins (e77756) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:20 amto give the Democrats a chance and vote Democrat….at this point they reflect more of my views then the Republicans do.
“understand the risk of doing nothing.” What is the risk, WLS? What has Paulson said that convinces you he should get extralegal authority over $700B taxpayer bailout? (And the bigger bailouts sure to follow?) This is a credit contraction, a _healthy_ correction to an overleveraged nightmare economy.
No More Bailouts!
gp (72be5d) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:32 amThe risk is that bankers will starve to death on the streets of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Fransisco, Boston, and other banking capitals.
Michael Ejercito (a757fd) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:37 amOh look, Hodkins is spamming his bullshit.
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:43 am$700 Billion dollars could alternatively be used in the following ways:
Gasoline for a year for every adult in America. (175 billion gallons of gas)
You could literally buy the world a Coke. One 2-liter bottle per week for a year.
You could buy a 60-inch HDTV for every man, woman and child in the U.S.
Sounds like Monopoly money? It should. You could buy 10 Monopoly games for each of the 6.7 billion human beings on planet earth.
You could buy everyone in America 2200 McDonalds apple pies. What’s more American than that?
You could buy a brand new Hummer for each of the 11 million people on the island of Cuba
You could buy 2 mountain bikes for everyone in China
You could buy 438 pounds of rice for every single person in Africa.
You could buy a Caribbean Island for every single person in the state of South Dakota.
Entire population of South Florida could cruise around the world continuously for 8.4 months.
Source: The South Floriday Sun-Sentinel
Phil (6d9f2f) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:46 amOr, we could just watch large sectors of our economy crumble. Sometimes I think people like Sen. Dodd and Rep. Franks would consider that a feature, not a bug.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:48 amAs I suspected, the Democrats stuffed the bill with goodies for their pet agendas and we were not told the truth yesterday. There are principled reasons for opposing the bill in its current form along with the constituent complaints, but Reid and Pelosi continue to show their usual lack of spine and refuse to bring what they have to the floor for a vote even knowing they probably have the votes to get it passed.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:48 amIn the end, no matter how it plays out, the actual taxpayers and the people that actually pay off their mortgages are going to be the ones stuck paying this tab.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:49 amContact your reps NOW and tell them: No More Bailouts!
https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml
gp (72be5d) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:53 amJRM,
“It looks like most economists oppose the bailout.”
You are correct. And to be honest I am quite surprised to see a conservative web site promoting such a shoot from the hip bailout.
Patience, friends. Remember just last Monday the fundamentals of our economy were strong. What changed things so suddenly?
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm
To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate:
As economists, we want to express to Congress our great concern for the plan proposed by Treasury Secretary Paulson to deal with the financial crisis. We are well aware of the difficulty of the current financial situation and we agree with the need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function. We see three fatal pitfalls in the currently proposed plan:
1) Its fairness. The plan is a subsidy to investors at taxpayers’ expense. Investors who took risks to earn profits must also bear the losses. Not every business failure carries systemic risk. The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.
2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.
3) Its long-term effects. If the plan is enacted, its effects will be with us for a generation. For all their recent troubles, America’s dynamic and innovative private capital markets have brought the nation unparalleled prosperity. Fundamentally weakening those markets in order to calm short-run disruptions is desperately short-sighted.
For these reasons we ask Congress not to rush, to hold appropriate hearings, and to carefully consider the right course of action, and to wisely determine the future of the financial industry and the U.S. economy for years to come.
Signed (updated at 9/25/2008 8:30AM CT)
Acemoglu Daron (Massachussets Institute of Technology)
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:53 amAdler Michael (Columbia University)
Admati Anat R. (Stanford University)
Alexis Marcus (Northwestern University)
Alvarez Fernando (University of Chicago)
Andersen Torben (Northwestern University)
Baliga Sandeep (Northwestern University)
Banerjee Abhijit V. (Massachussets Institute of Technology)
Barankay Iwan (University of Pennsylvania)
Barry Brian (University of Chicago)
Bartkus James R. (Xavier University of Louisiana)
Becker Charles M. (Duke University)
Becker Robert A. (Indiana University)
Beim David (Columbia University)
Berk Jonathan (Stanford University)
Bisin Alberto (New York University)
Bittlingmayer George (University of Kansas)
Boldrin Michele (Washington University)
Brooks Taggert J. (University of Wisconsin)
Brynjolfsson Erik (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
Buera Francisco J. (UCLA)
Camp Mary Elizabeth (Indiana University)
Carmel Jonathan (University of Michigan)
Carroll Christopher (Johns Hopkins University)
Cassar Gavin (University of Pennsylvania)
Chaney Thomas (University of Chicago)
Chari Varadarajan V. (University of Minnesota)
Chauvin Keith W. (University of Kansas)
Chintagunta Pradeep K. (University of Chicago)
Christiano Lawrence J. (Northwestern University)
Cochrane John (University of Chicago)
Coleman John (Duke University)
Constantinides George M. (University of Chicago)
Crain Robert (UC Berkeley)
Culp Christopher (University of Chicago)
Da Zhi (University of Notre Dame)
Davis Morris (University of Wisconsin)
De Marzo Peter (Stanford University)
Dubé Jean-Pierre H. (University of Chicago)
Edlin Aaron (UC Berkeley)
Eichenbaum Martin (Northwestern University)
Ely Jeffrey (Northwestern University)
Eraslan Hülya K. K.(Johns Hopkins University)
Faulhaber Gerald (University of Pennsylvania)
Feldmann Sven (University of Melbourne)
Fernandez-Villaverde Jesus (University of Pennsylvania)
Fohlin Caroline (Johns Hopkins University)
Fox Jeremy T. (University of Chicago)
Frank Murray Z.(University of Minnesota)
Frenzen Jonathan (University of Chicago)
Fuchs William (University of Chicago)
Fudenberg Drew (Harvard University)
Gabaix Xavier (New York University)
Gao Paul (Notre Dame University)
Garicano Luis (University of Chicago)
Gerakos Joseph J. (University of Chicago)
Gibbs Michael (University of Chicago)
Glomm Gerhard (Indiana University)
Goettler Ron (University of Chicago)
Goldin Claudia (Harvard University)
Gordon Robert J. (Northwestern University)
Greenstone Michael (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
Guadalupe Maria (Columbia University)
Guerrieri Veronica (University of Chicago)
Hagerty Kathleen (Northwestern University)
Hamada Robert S. (University of Chicago)
Hansen Lars (University of Chicago)
Harris Milton (University of Chicago)
Hart Oliver (Harvard University)
Hazlett Thomas W. (George Mason University)
Heaton John (University of Chicago)
Heckman James (University of Chicago – Nobel Laureate)
Henderson David R. (Hoover Institution)
Henisz, Witold (University of Pennsylvania)
Hertzberg Andrew (Columbia University)
Hite Gailen (Columbia University)
Hitsch Günter J. (University of Chicago)
Hodrick Robert J. (Columbia University)
Hopenhayn Hugo (UCLA)
Hurst Erik (University of Chicago)
Imrohoroglu Ayse (University of Southern California)
Isakson Hans (University of Northern Iowa)
Israel Ronen (London Business School)
Jaffee Dwight M. (UC Berkeley)
Jagannathan Ravi (Northwestern University)
Jenter Dirk (Stanford University)
Jones Charles M. (Columbia Business School)
Kaboski Joseph P. (Ohio State University)
Kahn Matthew (UCLA)
Kaplan Ethan (Stockholm University)
Karolyi, Andrew (Ohio State University)
Kashyap Anil (University of Chicago)
Keim Donald B (University of Pennsylvania)
Ketkar Suhas L (Vanderbilt University)
Kiesling Lynne (Northwestern University)
Klenow Pete (Stanford University)
Koch Paul (University of Kansas)
Kocherlakota Narayana (University of Minnesota)
Koijen Ralph S.J. (University of Chicago)
Kondo Jiro (Northwestern University)
Korteweg Arthur (Stanford University)
Kortum Samuel (University of Chicago)
Krueger Dirk (University of Pennsylvania)
Ledesma Patricia (Northwestern University)
Lee Lung-fei (Ohio State University)
Leeper Eric M. (Indiana University)
Leuz Christian (University of Chicago)
Levine David I.(UC Berkeley)
Levine David K.(Washington University)
Levy David M. (George Mason University)
Linnainmaa Juhani (University of Chicago)
Lott John R. Jr. (University of Maryland)
Lucas Robert (University of Chicago – Nobel Laureate)
Luttmer Erzo G.J. (University of Minnesota)
Manski Charles F. (Northwestern University)
Martin Ian (Stanford University)
Mayer Christopher (Columbia University)
Mazzeo Michael (Northwestern University)
McDonald Robert (Northwestern University)
Meadow Scott F. (University of Chicago)
Mehra Rajnish (UC Santa Barbara)
Mian Atif (University of Chicago)
Middlebrook Art (University of Chicago)
Miguel Edward (UC Berkeley)
Miravete Eugenio J. (University of Texas at Austin)
Miron Jeffrey (Harvard University)
Moretti Enrico (UC Berkeley)
Moriguchi Chiaki (Northwestern University)
Moro Andrea (Vanderbilt University)
Morse Adair (University of Chicago)
Mortensen Dale T. (Northwestern University)
Mortimer Julie Holland (Harvard University)
Muralidharan Karthik (UC San Diego)
Nanda Dhananjay (University of Miami)
Nevo Aviv (Northwestern University)
Ohanian Lee (UCLA)
Pagliari Joseph (University of Chicago)
Papanikolaou Dimitris (Northwestern University)
Parker Jonathan (Northwestern University)
Paul Evans (Ohio State University)
Pejovich Svetozar (Steve) (Texas A&M University)
Peltzman Sam (University of Chicago)
Perri Fabrizio (University of Minnesota)
Phelan Christopher (University of Minnesota)
Piazzesi Monika (Stanford University)
Piskorski Tomasz (Columbia University)
Rampini Adriano (Duke University)
Reagan Patricia (Ohio State University)
Reich Michael (UC Berkeley)
Reuben Ernesto (Northwestern University)
Roberts Michael (University of Pennsylvania)
Robinson David (Duke University)
Rogers Michele (Northwestern University)
Rotella Elyce (Indiana University)
Ruud Paul (Vassar College)
Safford Sean (University of Chicago)
Sandbu Martin E. (University of Pennsylvania)
Sapienza Paola (Northwestern University)
Savor Pavel (University of Pennsylvania)
Scharfstein David (Harvard University)
Seim Katja (University of Pennsylvania)
Seru Amit (University of Chicago)
Shang-Jin Wei (Columbia University)
Shimer Robert (University of Chicago)
Shore Stephen H. (Johns Hopkins University)
Siegel Ron (Northwestern University)
Smith David C. (University of Virginia)
Smith Vernon L.(Chapman University- Nobel Laureate)
Sorensen Morten (Columbia University)
Spiegel Matthew (Yale University)
Stevenson Betsey (University of Pennsylvania)
Stokey Nancy (University of Chicago)
Strahan Philip (Boston College)
Strebulaev Ilya (Stanford University)
Sufi Amir (University of Chicago)
Tabarrok Alex (George Mason University)
Taylor Alan M. (UC Davis)
Thompson Tim (Northwestern University)
Tschoegl Adrian E. (University of Pennsylvania)
Uhlig Harald (University of Chicago)
Ulrich, Maxim (Columbia University)
Van Buskirk Andrew (University of Chicago)
Veronesi Pietro (University of Chicago)
Vissing-Jorgensen Annette (Northwestern University)
Wacziarg Romain (UCLA)
Weill Pierre-Olivier (UCLA)
Williamson Samuel H. (Miami University)
Witte Mark (Northwestern University)
Wolfers Justin (University of Pennsylvania)
Woutersen Tiemen (Johns Hopkins University)
Zingales Luigi (University of Chicago)
Zitzewitz Eric (Dartmouth College)
#30
Note the date – we agree on something.
voiceofreason2 (10af7e) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:53 amJd, you’re a ass and a tool
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:54 amWhat I’d like to know is what alternatives the GOP is pushing in lieu of this bill as proposed. At any rate, McCain better ramp up for the debate tonight – regardless of his true motivations, skipping it at this point looks like a political loser.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:55 amAccording to this post, here is the Republican plan
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:58 amOr…alternatively, McCain could detail during the debate exactly why his party doesn’t like the bill in it’s current form, and what he thinks is the better alternative. Call it a true “teachable moment” in politics for the citizenry – at – large.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:58 amWow, Mike, you and Barack agree!
Comment by timb
This is a revelation to you ? Do you think I oppose Obama because he is a Democrat or is half black ? Is this how you think ? Try thinking for a change. Ideas are what matter. I have seen very few of his.
Mike K (2cf494) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:03 amI see that jharpy will not be deterred from continuing to distort the actual words of Sen. McCain. SHOCKA
Timmah – I was not speaking to you.
VOR – Eventually you were bound to be right about something 😉
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:04 amJD,
“I see that jharpy will not be deterred from continuing to distort the actual words of Sen. McCain. SHOCKA”
Please help. Take a look at McCain actually saying those exact words and explain how I’m distorting what he said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSBs0tBVrHk
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:09 amThe Democratic leadership in the House and Senate are notheing but a bunch of “weak sisters” – pimping and preening themselves in front of the cameras and crying that they can’t get their way. Shows me that it’s all about them – no ability of consensus building or even simple compromise.
If you want to see a failure in leadership – Look at Pelosi and Reid and their minions in the House and Senate.
Patterico – you’re right, they wont act – they’ll cry in front of the cameras like Reid is doing right now…
fmfnavydoc (0dd45c) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:09 amAfter the politicians insisted on turning the USA into a northern province of Mexico, they seemed shocked that the American economy is a Latin American basket case.
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:09 amJP Morgan Chase has the right idea about “bailout” — it picked up all of Washington Mutual’s assets for $1.9 Billion. That was the biggest bank failure in history.
At those rates, the U.S. government doesn’t need anywhere near $700 Billion to truely “mop up toxic assets” after the bad investors truly bite the dust.
This is the market actually working — those who were prudent, like Chase, are eating those who weren’t. In other words, I don’t see the failure of WaMu as a ‘Meltdown’ at all — it’s evolution.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:11 amCan we call this the Democratic Party Fat Cat Bailout and Stupid People Affordable Housing Discount Purchase Plan for now just to differentiate it from alternative Republican plans?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:12 amThat link is fine for a primer on the GOP side, but what I want to specifically see spelled out is who gets what at this juncture. If the Dems think that funding ACORN’s continuing efforts to put folks in homes that are far beyond their means is fine and dandy, then let’s have a full discussion of it. When I bought my first condo back in ’88, you had to have at least a 20% down payment, and documented income to cover the monthly payments. A few years later we suddenly had 10% down payments, ARM’s, and later on basically nothing was required. The only way past the housing problem is making everyone accountable, including the factor of every participant having skin in the game.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:12 amAnd, that could work. My wife were talking about this last night and I pointed out Wall Street wants this, Washington wants it, and the media is positively giddy for it. The American people, on the other hand, are not crazy about it and I was comparing it to the 60% of the people who wanted Iraq to end in 2006 in that we either a have an oligarchy or a representative democracy so distant from the wishes from the people as to make it look like an oligarchy.
Stick with me, while explain that. There are very generally two ideas about being a legislator. the first is your constituents delegated you to vote their wishes (or what the majority of them wishes). The second is that you are elected to vote your conscience and beliefs and you are the best person in the district to make those decisions. Elections are the people’s chance to decide to hire you or fire you from that role.
I think most legislators believe the second model, but it seems to me they are so divorced from their constituents that they are completely insulated from people of their districts.
Partisanship helps then, because no matter whether they listen to us or not, they can say they’re playing on the right team and get elected again, whether they give a crap what WE think (see Evan Bayh, Dan Burton, Julia Carson as an examples in my fair state of people who are not accountable).
Back to your point, McCain explaining a principled disagreement, which is also supported by the American people, could really help him.
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:13 amMike K – Clearly, you are a racist 😉
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:13 amGuess what? Phil’s absolutely correct about the WaMu failure – bad management begats bad outcomes; for everyone that had skin in the game.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:14 amJD, I don’t care anymore if you’re talking to me. I proposed a solution to your constant hostility; you decline the invitation, so I will attempt to insult you every time you post until you agree to leave me alone. I attempted to speak with you as an adult would speak to an adult. You, instead, want to squabble like a seven year old. I accept those terms.
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:17 amJD, you’re a lying twatwaffle
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:18 amI don’t mean to keep harping on that point – but it would appear that the whole process became a ginormous game of Liar’s Poker – so when the game inevitably blew up, it was akin to a drunk blaming the bartender for serving him. Both are accountable, but who is primarily responsible for their own actions in the first place?
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:19 amWhat is being proposed is nothing more than a “liar loan” to a bad borrower just like the subprime lenders did because of the pushing from the Democratic congressional leaders. But at least in those mortgages, you only had the house to lend on. In this case, Nancy, Harry, Chris and Harry also want us to “lend” for a car, furniture, pool aka A.C.O.R.N. and who knows what else! We don’t have the granular details so they will shove it down our throats without our knowledge.
Sue (4d3ef7) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:20 amharpy – Your bastardization of the entire context has been repeatedly pointed out to you. You aggressively ignore that. But, that is to be expected of the likes of you and your ilk.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:24 amYes WLS, blame it on Obama and his party. The Reps are saints that will do no ill. Even when they are wrong, by God, they are right! It is these evil Democrats that got us in this mess. So lets vote them out of the white house in November. Oh wait…….never mind.
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:26 amProof of me lying, timmah? You are an insignificant little person. A small man, with some weird fascination for following me around. Grow up.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:26 amhey, dmac, check out this link to Ross Douhat post. It is very persuasive. The money Congress will forking over to Wall Street will keep anyone from doing anything as President and, thus make the election as unimportant as Tilden v Garfield. I don’t often find Ross that interesting, but I think he’s up to something here
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:29 amI never said you lied (you must lie a lot, because you always accuse people of saying you’re lying). i said I offered you an agreement and you declined to take it.
I offered to ignore you and allow you to spew toxic comments at everyone you hated (an expansive list to be sure), as long I received silence from you. The offer is still on the table.
In the meantime, I will continue treat you like you treat me.
JD is a mendacious twatwaffle troll
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:34 amYou called me a lying twatwaffle, timmah. If that is not calling me a liar, I do not know what is.
I do not hate you timmah, I pity you.
To everyone else – I am sorry that you have been inflicted with this little gnat. This little person has followed me here from another site, and I showing its true colors in short order. I will quit responding to it, to spare the rest of you the back and forth. I do not want to let this disturbed little stalker ruin this place for everyone else. Suffice it to say that my response to timmah would likely get me banned by our gracious host.
Patterico, DRJ, WLS – timmah is a vile little disgusting person. He will infect this site.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:40 amYou are correct, Sue, this is just another liar loan. It perpetuates the very conduct that caused the meltdown in the first place. I have almost no problem bailing out Wall Street, but all the crooks and liars? No way.
I will not support this bill until the CRA, and all subprime schemes, are repealed.
Patricia (ee5c9d) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:54 amDon’t feed the trolls !
Obama said his people would “get in our faces” and here they are.
Mike K – Clearly, you are a racist 😉
Comment by JD
I denounce myself.
I am not happy about the latest McCain development, saying he will debate after all. There is no resolution that I see. Pelosi can past this Christmas tree bill if she wants. The Republicans can point out what a mess it is. I hope that McCain is planning to address this tonight and maybe that is what his change of mind is about.
Mike K (2cf494) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:55 amharpy – Your bastardization of the entire context has been repeatedly pointed out to you. You aggressively ignore that. But, that is to be expected of the likes of you and your ilk.
Comment by JD — 9/26/2008 @ 8:24 am
Please help. Take a look at McCain actually saying those exact words and explain how I’m distorting what he said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSBs0tBVrHk
Comment by jharp — 9/26/2008 @ 8:09 am
Pretty tough to defend with a video of McCain speaking the exact words I claimed he did, huh?
Seriously, JD, life is much simpler and enjoyable when you have the truth on your side. You ought to try it.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:56 amJharp proposes:
Because you’re yanking a 23-second soundbite out of a much longer statement. It’s a classic case of cherry-picking. And everyone here knows it.
Karl (133ddc) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:26 amJharp proposes:
Take a look at McCain actually saying those exact words and explain how I’m distorting what he said.
Because you’re yanking a 23-second soundbite out of a much longer statement. It’s a classic case of cherry-picking. And everyone here knows it.
Comment by Karl — 9/26/2008 @ 9:26 am
I don’t know it and I’m here. So then, Karl, let’s hear your case. I honestly don’t know what in the heck you are talking about.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:30 am“I don’t know it and I’m here.”
Dishonesty or ignorance.
You decide.
Death is not an option.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:48 amI honestly don’t know what in the heck you are talking about.
This is the most overused word in your hackery arsenal, Harpy. It’s always the same exact kabuki theatre for you:
– Someone posts an aticle Harpy doesn’t like;
– Harpy posts comment that severely edits/distorts original article and speaker’s intents and meaning;
– Said edits/distorts are exposed;
– Harpy asks to have the obvious edits pointed out to him – again, again and again.
It’s all so tired, so predictable – and a severe waste of everyone’s time.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:57 amIt’s ignorance.
I’d appreciate you sharing what I am missing.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:58 amThe Administration’s “Chicken Little” response to problems in the secondary mortgage markets has fallen flat, as it should have.
Sure, it’s a real problem, but rushing into a $700 billion bailout on the taxpayer’s nickel is idiotic beyond befief. It’s exactly the kind of flim-flam scam Democrats work for years to cause and then exploit for their own advantage. This is no different. Watch them add provisions, one give-away after another, all designed to fund Dem political organizations. Count on it.
The tip-off is that Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, the main perpetrators behind the debacle, are still in their positions as chairs of the respective Senate and House committees and participating in the negotiations. If President Bush and the GOP were serious about addressing the overall problem they would insist Dodd and Frank recuse themselve, further, President Bush would not allow either of these crooks into the White House discussions.
In the absence of an overtly public rejection of Dodd and Frank the GOP will be portrayed by MSM as both the cause of the problem and the obstacle to its amelioration.
This is McCain’s moment in time. He’s standing at the center of a crossroads in history. It reminds me of Chicago in 1968 when Hubert Humphry had a similar platform at the Democrat Convention. There were riots in the streets, LBJ had declined to run for a second term, and the eyes of the world were focused on Senator Hunphry, he was at the right place, at the right time. Yet…
If you don’t recall his words that fateful night, it’s because Humphry ducked the burning issues which were front and center in the collective consciousness of America. Humphry disappointed, he gave a “business as usual” address and was subsequently soundly defeated by Nixon who seized the moment. Nixon promised to end the war in Vitenam, and won the election in a landslide.
Tonight John McCain has an opportunity to face the economic crisis directly. He doesn’t have to call out Dodd, Frank, and Obama. All receipents of large sums from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. McCain has the bona fides to do it because he sponsored legislation to regulate the GSEs. Dodd and Frank opposed McCain’s bill and Obama made Fannie Mae’s disgraced CEO one of his economic advisors.
What McCain has the opportunity to do tonight, the opportunity of a lifetime, is to establish himself as the clear choice for President. Tonight he can shine in comparison to his unqualified and inexperienced opponent. McCain can prove to America that he’s the candidate willing to stand tall when the going gets tough.
Ropelight (f4b89a) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:59 amNap time for me. I’ll look forward to reading about how I have misinterpreted McCain’s words when I return.
Thanks in advance.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:00 amIt is not just plain ignorance that harpy is trafficking in, it is aggressive and willful ignorance.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:01 amSo, as has been the case all along, and has been pointed out to you repeatedly, when McCain is talking in this manner about the fundamentals of the economy, he is talking about the fundamentals being the American worker, innovation, entrepreneurship, and small business.
So, you can continue to lie, which I expect you will, or admit that you were grossly ignorant.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:09 amPhil — about WaMu. Yep, good thing for Morgan/Chase that FDIC is picking up the tab for any losses by depositors.
Lets have a couple hundred more failures just like it.
WLS (c1b09d) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:15 am#69, JD, you are correct. jharp is an aggressive and ignorent little villian, however his annoying comments are not inconsequential. He wastes both time and space, and your responses deprive readers and those who comment here of your thoughts on other topics. Which I find insightful and influential.
Now, for some good advice: it’s usually a mistake to get into a pissing contest with a skunk. Advice I have failed to live up to on occasion, but I’m trying to walk the walk. Best Regards.
Ropelight (f4b89a) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:18 amYou are right, ropelight, and I should ignore it. I find it physically painful to allow such aggressive and intentional dishonesty to remain unanswered though.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:25 amHey, WLS: cram it with walnuts, buddy. I am neither uneducated nor ignorant nor a hick from Pitchfork Springs. For crying out loud, man, you sound like a God-damned Democrat with talk like that.
Do I have any hint of understanding of what will happen if the bailout doesn’t happen? Yes, as a matter of fact I do. I will be among those badly hurt in the resulting economic turmoil. You will be too, I take it? Tough titties for you, fishface, everything you’ve done which now puts you at risk of loss was done voluntarily, and you don’t get to demand that the taxpayers save your ass from investments gone sour.
Now, do you have any idea what will happen when this bailout passes? Massive government intervention in the economy on a scale that rivals anything out of the New Deal. Unprecedented authority provided to the Treasury Secretary to stick his greasy fingers nearly anywhere he wants… and if you thought the OMC exercised enormous power over interest rates simply by using its gargantuan purse to influence the market, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Listen carefully. Government intervention in a free market virtually never makes it more efficient, virtually always makes things worse than they would have been absent the intervention. The current difficulty is a reaction, a signal to investors that they put their money in the wrong place and that they should put it elsewhere. If the government steps in to shield these people from their losses, that signal is lost, money will continue to be invested inefficiently, and the net result will be worse.
Great Depressions are not caused by too little government interference with the market.
Not to mention the precedent that’s set by the government rescuing private enterprise. Remember when President Bush issued those $300 checks near the beginning of his term? I knew at the time that it was a dumb move for several reasons, one of which was the precedent. Sure enough, he did it again in his second term, only this time he left out the “rich” and simply made it a raw transfer of wealth. And now a key point of Barack Obama’s economic plan is: he’ll issue checks to every American! Free money from the government, what could be better, right? I often wonder why the government doesn’t just give each one of us seven-figure checks… we’d all be millionaires and poverty would be eradicated, right?
But now it’ll be difficult or impossible to put that particular genie back in that particular bottle, so from now on whenever anybody protests about a policy of handing out “free” money to everyone, they’ll have a much tougher time making the argument. Especially when many conservatives supported the scheme.
And now so-called conservatives like you are actually calling on the government to spend hundreds of billions … wait a minute, that’s wrong. We all know that the price tag on this will go well over a trillion. Anyway, so-called conservatives like you are actually saying, with straight faces, that it’s good for the government to come in, increase the national debt by some 7%, and use the money to outright acquire 5% or so of the entire national economy.
And then you have the infernal gall to act all smug about it, and to belittle those who know better for being “hicks”, uneducated rubes. You openly mock conservative principles. Like I said, you sound like a Democrat. You ought to be ashamed.
Voice of Reason (f764a1) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:48 amWLS- beginning of his post:
Comment by love2008 — 9/26/2008 @ 8:26 am:
Looks like not paying attention.
This should be straightforward:
1. How immediate does something need to be done, why, is there agreement, what are consequences of not acting. Input please.
2. What is the current proposal, what are objections? The fact that constituents are against something even though they don’t know what that something is, is not an adequate objection. Inform the constituents then let them give voice:
Is this the purchase of bad debt at a cut rate that the taxpayer will not have to pay for because the Feds will sell at a reasonable return when the market will bear it?
Or is it a blank check to pay asking price when it will never be worth that?
Is this simply a response to the crisis, straight and simple, or is it an emergency bill that has had all kinds of crap stuck in it, and by whom? For example, I hear there is money pledged to ACORN in it.
3. Who is playing politics?
No one, Pres. Bush or McCain, should have begged for Obama to show up. If a decision needs to be made now it needs to be made by the current executive and legislative branches. If Obama’s role in the Senate did not make it important for him to be there, then fine.
4. I would like to hear more straight talk from McCain and everyone. For example, when Obama implied that McCain couldn’t do two things at once, he should have called him on the phone and said, “You know, it sounds like you just called me incompetent. Is that what you meant?” Either Obama backs down and apologizes or affirms. If backs down, a message has been sent to cut the crap. If he persists, McCain calls a press conference, tells things straight up, says if presidents should be able to do two things at once then he can get his butt back to Washington and fulfill his responsibilities as Senator or return his paycheck.
I hope and pray that McCain gets just mad enough to tell the truth as he sees it without the niceties, including to the press, including about the events of the last two days, after all, Obama was the one who said the American people deserved/wanted to hear what the presidential candidates had to say about the current situation, including declarations of which candidate took how much from Freddy and Fannie.
One last thing, there is a YouTube clip that purports to show Obama “giving the finger” to Hillary during a speech. Is that for real? If so, let’s ask the moderator about that clip. That’s being about as presidential as a sophomore in high school as he’s leaving the room on the way to the Principal’s office.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:49 amJD, you have answered jharp’s dishonesty. You’ve exposed it for all to see. That he refuses to acknowledge his perfidy is consistent with the impulse which initiated it. He is what he is, and only he can change that fact. Have done with him and set your sights on bigger game.
Ropelight (f4b89a) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:52 amI sincerely hope those who feel that no immediate proactive action by the government is needed are right because at this point it seems that’s what we’re going to get.
To my mind it’s very unfortunate that this crisis occurred six weeks before an election, not the Presidential one, but all those House seats. It meant that the members of the House were all right up against the immediate public opinion of the deal as seen through the media filter, there was no time to explain or convince. So, both parties are frantically politicizing the problem.
We got the typical media hysteria and public opinion became overwhelming negative. What I see is that all our “leaders” in Washington, on both sides, just didn’t lead on this. They let all the government actions to date and the proposed action be termed “bailouts” by the media. That’s a pejorative term and most of the public now believes that what is being proposed is giving $700 Billion of our dollars to rich people and corporate executives. The President’s speech a couple of days ago was too little too late. I’m very sorry that Karl Rove has been out of the Administration for a year. He, of all people. would have understood the need to get ahead of and shape the public opinion curve.
One example. We “bailed out” AIG. Most people I’m sure believe that we just gave money to rich people and fat cats there. In fact, we loaned AIG $85 Billion at 10% interest and it is far more likely than not that this loan will be repaid and soon. If it isn’t, we get an 80% interest in a company with a lot of assets and profitable businesses. That’s an investment to my mind and a good one at that.
How different the discussion would have been if the current proposal was being discussed as an Economic Recovery package rather than a bailout. Words matter. They craft people’s perception. If it’s a bailout, I’m against it. If it’s an economic recovery proposal, I’ll consider it.
Peccator Dubius (0a6237) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:56 amComment by Voice of Reason — 9/26/2008 @ 10:48 am
Just wanted to note that I am VOR2 and did not approve this message
voiceofreason2 (590c85) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:59 amPhil — about WaMu. Yep, good thing for Morgan/Chase that FDIC is picking up the tab for any losses by depositors.
Lets have a couple hundred more failures just like it.
From the Wall Street Journal:
The collapse of the Seattle thrift, which was triggered by a wave of deposit withdrawals, marks a new low point in the country’s financial crisis. But the deal, as constructed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., could hold some glimmers of hope for the beleaguered banking system because it averts any hit to the bank-insurance fund.
Instead, J.P. Morgan agreed to pay $1.9 billion to the government for WaMu’s banking operations and will assume the loan portfolio of the thrift, which has $307 billion in assets. The full cost to J.P. Morgan will be much higher, because it plans to write down about $31 billion of the bad loans and raise $8 billion in new capital. All WaMu depositors will have access to their cash, but holders of more than $30 billion in debt and preferred stock will likely see little if any recovery.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:00 am#66 – I’d appreciate you sharing what I am missing.
— Sorry. The rest of us are using all of our chromosomes right now.
Icy Truth (ef009a) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:05 amComment by Ropelight — 9/26/2008 @ 9:59 am:
The tip-off is that Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, the main perpetrators behind the debacle, are still in their positions as chairs of the respective Senate and House committees…
True, but that’s the way Bush does things, gracious to a fault, don’t humiliate your enemies even when they deserve it.
Tonight John McCain has an opportunity to face the economic crisis directly. He doesn’t have to call out Dodd, Frank, and Obama. All recipients of large sums from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Why not call them out, live on national TV, no spin?
McCain has the bona fides to do it because he sponsored legislation to regulate the GSEs. Dodd and Frank opposed McCain’s bill and Obama made Fannie Mae’s disgraced CEO one of his economic advisors.
McCain can prove to America that he’s the candidate willing to stand tall when the going gets tough.
Agreed, no intimidation by subordinates, the sharp sword of truth thrust straight and true.
Hopefully McPalin will win, but even if they do, putting up with 4 years of Dem and MSM crap like Bush has had to deal with will not benefit the American people.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:05 amjharp
I went to Tulane studied finance and economics – played the stock market to pay tuition – went to Tulanes night school while working at Amoco during the James Watt Lease sales in the Gulf of Mexico.
Met lots of visiting Nobel Prize winning economists – they all had one defining characteristics – none ever met a payroll
Name one program that the democrats initiated from Social Security to Sesame Street that anyone of those Nobel Prize winning economists wrote a paper on or signed on to AS a good idea.
We need to have confidence in our banking system, we do need to go back to sound banking principles.
We don’t need democrats involved – since they created the mess again.
EricPWJohnson (c00a5d) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:21 amHodkins Disease does his seminar poster bit.
Jharp comes out with a missive from mostly Univ of Chicago types a wholly owned subsidiary of Ayers/Pritzker
daytrader (ea6549) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:45 am“Economists – they all had one defining characteristics – none ever met a payroll.”
True, but also true for most learned professions, e.g., most doctors have not had the diseases they are treating you for; most prosecutors have not committed the crimes they are prosecuting, etc.
There is an important place for study and reflection on historic patterns and the big picture. Meeting a payroll does not give you much insight into the broad market forces that caused the Depression.
Peccator Dubius (0a6237) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:50 am“We don’t need democrats involved – since they created the mess again.”
Funny one. Keep repeating it and 30% will believe.
30% believe in Big Foot, 30% believe in UFO’s, 30% believe in evangelican christianity, 30% believe in the Loch Ness monster, 30% believe Rush Limbaugh, and 30% believe in George Bush.
I’m starting to think it’s the same 30%.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:02 pmPhil — thanks for that update on WaMu. It answers some questions I had about how Morgan/Chase was able to step in immediately after WaMu was declared insolvent, and buy up its assets for only $1.9 billion. I had assumed they cherry-picked only the valuable parts of WaMu and were leaving the rest of the rotting carcas behind for FDIC to dispose of. It’s nice to see that FDIC made Morgan/Chase take the debts on WaMu’s balance sheet in order to also have its branch banking operations, which remained very profitable up to the end.
But just like the case of BofA swallowing Merril Lynch, how many more failing banks and thrifts can the healthy part of the industry digest? Once the healthy banks have taken all they can handle in these kinds of buyouts, FDIC is going to end up with the bill.
WLS (26b1e5) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:02 pm30% believe in you
But none of them are here
Icy Truth (e76595) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:08 pmAnd my opponents may disagree, but those fundamentals — the American worker and their innovation, their entrepreneurship, the small business, those are the fundamentals of America, and I think they’re strong,” he said in Orlando.
But a few moments later, he described the country’s current financial situation as “a crisis” and repeatedly said he was concerned about the fundamentals of the economy.
So, as has been the case all along, and has been pointed out to you repeatedly, when McCain is talking in this manner about the fundamentals of the economy, he is talking about the fundamentals being the American worker, innovation, entrepreneurship, and small business.
So, you can continue to lie, which I expect you will, or admit that you were grossly ignorant.
Comment by JD — 9/26/2008 @ 10:09 am
Link? I think you are lying?
He said he meant the American worker after that speech trying to cover for his incredibly stupid remark.
And believe me I looked for the transcript but to no avail.
Produce some evidence and I gladly will accept it.
Til then my evidence stands.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:13 pm#85 – I disagree. UCLA, Minnesota, Texas, Miami … that is a lot of geographic diversity in that list.
Adriane (b8ecd8) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:16 pm30% believe in you
But none of them are here
Comment by Icy Truth — 9/26/2008 @ 12:08 pm
Wrong, Icy.
The 70%ers believe in me. And they are not here.
The one’s here, the 30 er’s, that don’t believe in me. That is correct
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:16 pm– I disagree. UCLA, Minnesota, Texas, Miami … that is a lot of geographic diversity in that list.
Comment by Adriane — 9/26/2008 @ 12:16 pm
Adriane,
That is not how a wingnut mind works. It got to be simple and in absolutes.
One University PhD thay don’t agree with?
There all a bunch of lefties and don’t what they are talking about.
Never mind the fact the paper is signed by about 200 of the top economist from the top universities in the country.
Rush Limbaugh said PhD economists are leftists, don’t ya know?
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:22 pmFrom CBS News http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/15/politics/fromtheroad/entry4450366.shtml John Bentley:
(ORLANDO, FLA.) – John McCain tried once again to assure voters that the “fundamentals” of the American economy are strong, despite the ongoing financial meltdown.
“The economic crisis is not the fault of the American people. Our workers are the most innovative, the hardest working, the best skilled, most productive, most competitive in the world, that’s the American worker,” McCain said at a town hall meeting here.
“My opponents may disagree, but those fundamentals, the American worker and their innovation, their entrepreneurship, the small business, those are the fundamentals of America and I think they’re strong.”
Icy Truth (a6ffde) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:42 pm#86, PD said, “Meeting a payroll does not give you much insight into the broad market forces that caused the Depression.”
That’s true as far as it goes, but meeting a payroll does give one a clear sense that cause and effect are operative concepts. The cold logic of having to put money on the table, week after week, has a way of clearing away extraneous considerations, cobwebs, and other foolish notions which tend to cloud the minds of those who only talk for a living. Focus has value.
Ropelight (f4b89a) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:56 pmIcy,
Thank you for the link. It confirms that you have been spresding a lie.
Note. First quote is in Jacksonville. Correction is made in Orlando after realizing the gravity of his idiotic remark
(JACKSONVILLE, FLA.) – Promising to “never put America in this position again” with regards to the turmoil on Wall Street, John McCain said he would bring transparency and accountability to America’s financial markets.
“We believe the time has come and gone where the taxpayers should be viewed as the solution to the problems that are not of their making,” McCain said. “We will reform the regulatory bodies of government.”
ORLANDO, FLA.) – John McCain tried once again to assure voters that the “fundamentals” of the American economy are strong, despite the ongoing financial meltdown.
“The economic crisis is not the fault of the American people. Our workers are the most innovative, the hardest working, the best skilled, most productive, most competitive in the world, that’s the American worker,” McCain said at a town hall meeting here.
“My opponents may disagree, but those fundamentals, the American worker and their innovation, their entrepreneurship, the small business, those are the fundamentals of America and I think they’re strong.”
Speaking to a noticeably smaller crowd here at his first rally without running mate Sarah Palin, McCain told the 3,000 in attendance at the half full arena that the economy was not in jeopardy.
“The fundamentals of our economy are strong, but these are very, very difficult times,” he said.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:09 pmThree quick observations:
Anyone who hasn’t followed Wind Rider’s link at #1 above should do so. It’ll lift your spirits and you’ll get a good chuckle. I did. It will also make you go hummmm.
MD in Philly’s “Protest” poem at #12 is pretty good. Thanks MD.
It would be nice to have a thread where we could list the questions we’d like to ask McCain and Obama tonight.
Ropelight (f4b89a) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:31 pmLeft out the money quote from Jacksonville earlier in the day that proves you have been spreading a lie.
Hope this clears things up. Now get to church on Sunday and get to the confessional.
(JACKSONVILLE, FLA.) – Promising to “never put America in this position again” with regards to the turmoil on Wall Street, John McCain said he would bring transparency and accountability to America’s financial markets.
“We believe the time has come and gone where the taxpayers should be viewed as the solution to the problems that are not of their making,” McCain said. “We will reform the regulatory bodies of government.”
Speaking to a noticeably smaller crowd here at his first rally without running mate Sarah Palin, McCain told the 3,000 in attendance at the half full arena that the economy was not in jeopardy.
“The fundamentals of our economy are strong, but these are very, very difficult times,” he said.
It was later in Orlando when he tried to wiggle out of his stupidity with this.
ORLANDO, FLA.) – John McCain tried once again to assure voters that the “fundamentals” of the American economy are strong, despite the ongoing financial meltdown.
“The economic crisis is not the fault of the American people. Our workers are the most innovative, the hardest working, the best skilled, most productive, most competitive in the world, that’s the American worker,” McCain said at a town hall meeting here.
“My opponents may disagree, but those fundamentals, the American worker and their innovation, their entrepreneurship, the small business, those are the fundamentals of America and I think they’re strong.”
Speaking to a noticeably smaller crowd here at his first rally without running mate Sarah Palin, Speaking to a noticeably smaller crowd here at his first rally without running mate Sarah Palin, McCain told the 3,000 in attendance at the half full arena that the economy was not in jeopardy.
“The fundamentals of our economy are strong, but these are very, very difficult times,” he said.
“The fundamentals of our economy are strong, but these are very, very difficult times,” he said.
Still the retard threw in this line even in trying to recover from his earlier buffonery.
“McCain told the 3,000 in attendance at the half full arena that the economy was not in jeopardy.”
I’m starting to think he as much a nitwit as Palin.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:34 pm“meeting a payroll does give one a clear sense that cause and effect are operative concepts.”
I agree, but dislike one-sided simplistic statements like the one I was reacting too. Paulson has been in business for most of his career, Bernanke in academics. For a while I thought the combination of Bernanke’s theoretical knowledge with Paulson’s street smarts would get us through this, but it looks to me that the politicians are screwing it up now and I’m not optimistic.
Peccator Dubius (0a6237) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:39 pmIf you voted Republican in last election THEY TOOK YOU TO THE CLEANERS!!
Trillion dollar bailout coming baby at your expense!!
How is your job?
What is your home worth today?
1.2 Million homes in foreclosure last month
Unemployment 6.1 percent
Banks Failing (Indymac, WaMu, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and many more to come!)
Alan Greenspan says it is worst economy in 100 years!!
Gas too expensive to fill your tank!
Are you better off now then 8 years ago?
Bush and Republicans have run this country into the ground, forget about Church issues….at this rate the Churches will all go bankrupt!
If you want 4 more years of this just vote Republican! I hope you do
Dan Hobkins (e77756) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:40 pmso they can take you to the cleaners AGAIN!!!!!
Is it too late for McCain to ask for a new VP? I mean considering what a gift Palin has been to us so far.
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:49 pmIt’s so painful to watch her go down like this.
Icy, Thank you for the link. It confirms that you have been spresding a lie.
— Uh, excuse me, fuckface . . . what lie have I spread? (or “spresd” as the case may be?) Comment #’s, dates & times, please!
Icy Truth (894e4f) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:50 pmReduced to becoming the new JAR, are we “love”? All non sequiters and links, no content or actual opinion?
Icy Truth (e76595) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:57 pmAnd that is somehow Bush’s fault?
He encouraged or coerced people to take out loans that they could not repay?
He encouraged or coerced banks to lend money to those who could not repay?
Michael Ejercito (a757fd) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:13 pm#104
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:14 pmReally Icy, how do you feel about your chosen party now? How do you feel about Sarah Palin the great debater and foreign policy guru, who can actually see Russia from her balcony at Alaska. Or John McCain who puts country first for McCain and ends up a big embarrassment to himself and his party. Apart from being a flip-flopper. On wednseday he was going to suspend his campaign and “put country first” so as to fly with his cape down to DC and deal with all the bad guys and rescue our economy within 24 hrs. Which only earned him this from a fellow Republican. How do you feel now? (Holding my breath from bursting into laughter..) 🙂
jharp:
Re the letter and all the signatories: Which is it?
Great minds think alike or fools seldom differ?
Dr. K (b16110) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:27 pmlove2008 —
Really Icy, how do you feel about your chosen party now?
— I have never chosen a party. 24 years a registered voter, always an independent, always voted for an (R) and a (D) in every election.
How do you feel about Sarah Palin the great debater and foreign policy guru, who can actually see Russia from her balcony at Alaska.
— She’s a MILF . . . and soon to be a GILF (and a VPILF, and a SILF).
Or John McCain who puts country first for McCain and ends up a big embarrassment to himself and his party.
— Show proof that the Party is embarrassed by him for putting HIS JOB, which involves directly serving the country, first.
Apart from being a flip-flopper. On wednseday he was going to suspend his campaign and “put country first” so as to fly with his cape down to DC and deal with all the bad guys and rescue our economy within 24 hrs.
— Which he DID, apart from never saying that HE was going to “rescue” our economy.
Which only earned him this from a fellow Republican. How do you feel now? (Holding my breath from bursting into laughter..)
Icy Truth (894e4f) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:56 pm— You can’t please all of the people all of the time — as your last boyfriend knows all too well.
(Holding my breath from bursting into laughter..)
That’s not your breath, Lovey – it’s something called intestinal gas…of which we’re still trying to figure out which orifice that spews from lately.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/26/2008 @ 3:11 pmFor anyone who questioned the complete lack of good faith that jharpy brings to the table, this thread should disabuse you of that.
When provided with the full text and context of the bastardized quote that he routinely throws out there, and the speaker’s stated intent, harpy still thinks that his out-of-context bastardization of the quote is accurate.
JD (f7900a) — 9/26/2008 @ 3:33 pm#108
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/26/2008 @ 3:44 pmas your last boyfriend knows all too well
Is that supposed to be a joke or you trying to be a stupid jerk?
I just want to applaud WLS for this and his last post for being able to put aside partisan politics (which generally seem to be very dear to his heart) to look at the problem straight on. There is plenty of blame to go around and neither side has completely refrained from playing politics with this issue, but the GOP House members did so in a dangerous game of brinksmanship.
Whether McCain is complicit in this I leave to each’s own interpretation, but I will note that yesterday was exactly the wrong time to call that Whitehouse meeting – the GOP House was not yet on board to the extent required for the bipartisan agreement everyone agrees is needed for this unprecedented government intervention. That meeting only provided the national platform for partisan politics to play out on. McCain didn’t bring the partisan politics into the issue, but he gave it a megaphone it wouldn’t have otherwise had.
I recommend everyone go back and read WLS’ previous post and cfbleachers comments on that post for some excellent discussion of the underlying problems and ramifications. I also recommend reading or watching news on this issue from countries outide the US (I’m watching CBC & BBC) for a more international perspective.
Bob Loblaw (6d485c) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:43 pmDid McCain orchestrate that meeting?
I love it when moonbats come around and lecture us on where we should get our information, what we should be watching, etc … as though they have any idea what others choose to read, watch, listen to, etc …
JD (f7900a) — 9/26/2008 @ 4:49 pm“(I’m watching CBC & BBC)”
Which is akin to pleading “I’m ignorant, beat me with a bigger stick”. The CBC tends to focus its political news gathering on the non-partisan Democrats, lest it be tainted by the rustic stubblejumpers of the Republican party.
Cheers
J.M Heinrichs (2a602c) — 9/26/2008 @ 5:28 pmYes.
White House Press Briefing – September 25, 2008
And yes, please take all of my recommendations as directives rather than as suggestions – including this one: I recommend you pull your head out of your own behind and take a breath….
Bob Loblaw (6d485c) — 9/26/2008 @ 5:37 pmHi Pals,
I’m against the $85 BILLION bailout of AIG. Instead, I’m in favor of
giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a “We Deserve It” dividend. To
make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide
U.S. citizens, aged 18+.
Our population is about 301 million counting every man, woman and
child. So, 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.
Now, divide 200 million, 18+ adults into $85 billon – that equals
$425,000.00 each! Yes, my plan is to give that $425,000 to every
adult as a “We Deserve It” dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So, let’s assume a tax rate of
30%. Every would pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 billion
right back to Uncle Sam! It also means that every adult 18+ has
$297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife would have $595,000.00!
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00?
· Pay off your mortgage ? housing crisis solved
· Repay college loans ? what a great boost to new grads
· Put away money for college ? it’ll really be there
· Save in a bank ? create money to loan to entrepreneurs
· Buy a new car ? create jobs
· Invest in the market ? capital drives growth
· Pay for your parent’s medical insurance ? health care improves
· Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean ? or else
Remember this is for /every/ adult U.S. citizen, 18 and older
(including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and
every other company that is cutting back) and of course, for those
serving in our Armed Forces.
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it! Instead
of trickling out a puny $1,000.00 (“Republican vote buy”) economic
incentive.
If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out /every/
adult U.S. citizen!!
As for AIG ? liquidate it.
· Sell off its parts.
· Let American General go back to being American General.
· Sell off the real estate.
· Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
/We deserve the money and AIG doesn’t./ Sure it’s a crazy idea, but
can you imagine the coast-to-coast block party?!
How do you spell Economic Boom? W-e D-e-s-e-r-v-e I-t
d-i-v-i-d-e-n-d! I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to
use the $85 Billion “We Deserve It” dividend more than I do the
geniuses at AIG or in Washington, D.C. .
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 billion because
$25.5 billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
/Ahhh…I feel so much better getting that off my chest./
TC (f398ed) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:13 pmYour math is off by a factor of a 1,000, TC.
Heard on the radio: If the bailout goes through, we will continue to go to work but in order to pay for it we will be taxed so highly that we will not be bringing any money home. If the bailout does not go through, we will have no jobs to go to and we will not be bringing any money home either. But at least we won’t have to work.
nk (796b84) — 9/27/2008 @ 9:29 am