Today’s Scorecard Would Have To Show McCain Scoring A Decisive Decision With His Move To DC Yesterday Given The Way It Played Out.
Posted by WLS:
We’ve been debating here the wisdom of McCain “suspending” his campaign in order to return to DC to participate in the crafting of the rescue legislation.
While there is a lot of time left for this issue to play itself out in the political arena — and I do not believe McCain did this for political reasons — I think that today’s scorecard must reflect a significant “decision” in McCain’s favor.
First, while Obama was still waffling in public about returning to DC, McCain agreed to the issuing the “Joint Statement” that Obama had suggested earlier yesterday morning. A more useless waste of paper would be hard to imagine. Here’s what Obama’s idea produced:
“The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake.
“Now is a time to come together — Democrats and Republicans — in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail.
“This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country.”
As we know, Obama ultimately caved in to McCain’s suggestion that they each leave the campaign trail today and return to Washington to participate in the process. One of the two of them is going to have the responsbility for executing whatever policy is passed, and Obama’s “call me if you need me” response was simply inexplicable. Maybe he thought it was above his paygrade.
The fact that the Dems quickly began to understand that McCain was going to realize a big net win on this issue was reflected in Barney Frank and Harry Reid trying to throw cold water on McCain’s return, calling it a “photo-op” at the White House after the outlines of the deal looked like they were being reached this morning. Frank even falsely claimed a deal in principle was at hand, making the summit at the White House unnecessary.
But, after returning to DC today after first saying he would not, Obama has now decided to remain overnight in DC rather than return to Florida where he was preparing for tomorrow night’s debate. McCain continues to leave the status of the debate up in the air, while Obama continues to insist that it take place as planned.
McCain forced Obama to leave the campaign and follow him to DC where McCain appeared to be a player in the process and Obama appeared to be a spectator. Now Obama will remain in DC along with McCain, and its anybody’s guess who shows up tomorrow in Mississippi.
McCain can arrive at the last minute and claim the high ground, since Obama has followed him only reluctantly every step of the way. Obama would have been better served to have simply gone to Washington and postpone the debate as a show of bipartisanship. Now he simply looks like a “me too” guy, while complaining all the way along.
The news is not looking good for a deal. What Obama should do is contact McCain and agree to postpone the debate; His PR spin:”After talking with people on the ground it is clear that this is a grave situation… blah..and I have reconsidered insisting on a debate…”
If he goes to MS by himself it is likely at least one network if not more will have the stock market graph in the lower part of the screen.
voiceofreason2 (c10c7f) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:37 pmAnd call it a hunch but he probably realizes having a town hall format with random questions may not be his best gamble.
I guess that’s one way to characterize having the President request that you attend a meeting of all the high ranking officials dealing with the negotiations….
Isn’t McCain asking the President to ask Obama to attend a meeting exactly the “call me if you need me” Obama suggested?
After watching Gov. Palin’s interview with Katie Couric, I’m starting to think this was all an elaborate ploy to put off the VP debate….
Bob Loblaw (6d485c) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:40 pmWilh all due respect, WLS, from a man who sees things quite differently, I can’t believe this would be someones take on the whole spectacle.
At the least shouldn’t you credit Obama for starting the ball rolling.
Or maybe acknowledge that we don’t know how urgent just how urgent the matter is?
Does it really matter if a deal gets done tonight or a week from tonight than it does the fact a fair deal is done?
The friggin things a week old for god’s sake.
And all we have is George “the liar” Bush saying it’s got to done now.
My vote is the take their time. Someone has been hiding something and is lying.
$700 billion for christs sake!
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:43 pmWLS, it is clear to all but the most unobservant that Obama’s petulance is showing his lack of leadership.
I actually heard an Obama supporter in my office building complaining about how it looked when Obama said “if” he was needed, he’d go. She said “Leaders don’t wait by the telephone”.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:46 pmBob,
“After watching Gov. Palin’s interview with Katie Couric”
That was an embarrassing interview for all Americans.
Holy smokes! What a display of incompetence and idiocy.
Can’t see how even the wingnuts can try to put a positive spin on that one.
That health care snippet was the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever seen. And I’m 48.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:47 pmjharp — yes it does matter if the deal gets done in the next 48 hours rather than in a week. Maybe you just don’t understand how these markets work, but here’s a “fact” that can’t be denied or ignored:
That comes from an article in yesterday’s Financial Times. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a68e789e-8a68-11dd-a76a-0000779fd18c.html
This means lenders don’t have cash because money market funds — where you checking account money is sitting — are buying T-Bills with it instead of making it available in commercial lending markets for businesses to take advantage of.
Payrolls are met with this kind of short-term lending. It was exactly the absence of this kind of credit access that put Bear Stearns out of business.
Obama got the ball rolling????? With a “Joint Statement”?????? That was an empty gesture. Real action was getting back to Washington, getting in the room where the deal was being made, and getting the sides to agree. Issuing “Joint Statements” gives one nice cover — sort of like voting “Present.”
Do you even understand what the $700 billion will be used for? I’ve got a very long post already written that lays it out for you. Give me a while to do so editing, and I’ll make it all clear.
But take a shot now giving us your college-centric version of what you think is going to happen.
WLS (26b1e5) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:51 pmWLS, calling Obama’s joint statement an ’empty gesture’ elevates to more significance than it had.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:54 pmjharp,
A little easier read is here.
“The effects of the credit freeze haven’t yet fully worked their way through the system to consumers, though there are early signs that’s it’s doing so. Some banks have begun canceling home equity lines of credit. Private lenders have been fleeing the student loan market.
One way to think about the crisis: The economy is like a patient who was just diagnosed with clogged coronary arteries. The patient feels fine and might continue to feel fine for days, weeks or even months. But without treatment, he’s at grave risk of a heart attack. So think of the government’s plan as a kind of financial bypass surgery — to restore the flow of capital through the economy. The treatment is not without risks, but the risks of doing nothing are much greater.”
voiceofreason2 (c10c7f) — 9/25/2008 @ 6:55 pmI don’t think this is how it’s going to play out in the media. Don’t you think that they will continue to express the opinion that this was a political move of desperation and play up Reid’s statement that McCain ruined the process and destroyed America?
I do.
Kevin (5ac156) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:01 pm“jharp — yes it does matter if the deal gets done in the next 48 hours rather than in a week.”
Then why in the fuck did they wait til Friday to spring it on us.
Sorry for the language and I’m going to watch Oregon State kick the ass of USC. Oregon State is ahead 14-0 late in the secong.
Cheers. (Ohio State fan)
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:05 pmOT- Only eight days until Biden drops out!
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:07 pmReid is just about the singularly least believable politician in America today. Is this the Harry Reid to whom you are referring?
Yesterday:
I understand that the candidates are putting together a joint statement at Senator Obama’s suggestion. But it would not be helpful at this time to have them come back during these negotiations and risk injecting presidential politics into this process or distract important talks about the future of our nation’s economy. If that changes, we will call upon them. We need leadership; not a campaign photo op.
Today:
With the economic news only getting worse each day, I call on the President, Senator McCain and Congressional Republicans to join us to quickly get this done for American families.
WLS (26b1e5) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:07 pmWLS, well yeah … but even Reid sees no need for Obama in either statement. ROFL.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:08 pmjharp — now you’ve found something we can agree on.
SUC getting the sheet kicked out of it.
WLS (26b1e5) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:10 pmSpread all the “happy talk and fairy dust” (credit: Peter Pan) you want, but the significance and meaning of all this has the surest and greatest impact on the undecided, independent voters. Anybody here remember the folks in chicken suits showing up at Bush the elder’s rallies after he failed to do debates? Poor old Bush even argued with one of the guys in a chicken suit at one point. That’s falling pretty low.
Larry Reilly (d11f9a) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:12 pmAnd that’s what the undecided voters see now. The fairy dust and happy talk don’t carry beyond this comments section.
McCain said yesterday he was going to “suspend” his campaign and go back to Washington in all seriousness and get to work on the crisis. (Just love how you guys now put it as “leave the campaign trail” to cover the fact that the campaign didn’t miss a beat.)
But, after lying to David Letterman, McCain stayed in New York and CAMPAIGNED there this morning and then got to D.C. this afternoon AFTER both sides had hammered out something, but just in time for the photo-op called on short notice by Bush the midget. How conveeeeeeeeeenyunt.
Sorry guys. You ain’t gonna persuade many undecided/independents by wishing it so. They’re onto the real campaign: MCCAIN FIRST. Lookit the polls.
Always fun to leave the Federal City at the end of the day and come look out here in the weeds for some tee-hee-hees.
Larry, no, the independants are seeing Obama claim that – in the week of such impeding financial crisis – the most important thing to debate is foreign policy.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:17 pmQuote of the day:
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:20 pmSarah Palin; Dangerously qualified!
Exciting day.
Washington Mutual now toast. Done. Shareholders to get zero.
Largest Savings and Loan in the country. Kaput. Busted. Poof.
Put the in your pipe and smoke it for awhile. But, the economy is fundamentally sound. At least last week it was.
jharp (f4bed7) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:20 pmSPQR
Larry Reilly (d11f9a) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:23 pmIs that why, as of yesterday, when the economic crisis was, as Colbert put it, at it’s “brinkiest,” McCain had not even read the mere three pages of Paulson’s proposal? Never mind the carefully crafted alternatives that came out of Congress in response to Paulson. Are the nuts-and-bolts of the economic crisis the “foreign” policy?
Always fun to leave the Federal City at the end of the day and come look out here in the weeds for some tee-hee-hees.
Mawy likes to go out on picnics with her Malibu Barbie – but sometimes Mawy doesn’t understand what Barbie’s trying to say to her, even after she pulls her string many times. Mawy is getting to be a big girl now, but she still gets angry when Barbie always answers her questions with the same response: “math is hard!”
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:24 pmQuote of the day:
“Lovey is an ponce from Glasgow.”
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:25 pmLarry Reilly,
But, after lying to David Letterman…
Question of the Day: Who gives two s***s about David Letterman?
Letterman’s shining moment was right after 9-11…and it’s been downhill ever since.
Think about this: we’ll see what happens, but if Maverick plays a key role in successful bailout legislation, come January 2009 David Letterman will be muttering to himself, “Why the f*** won’t President McCain and Vice President Palin return my phone calls?”
MarkJ (7fa185) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:28 pmjharp,
Come clean with us: you must be into S & M. I mean, nobody could keep getting pummeled, as you do, but keep coming back for more…unless they truly enjoyed it.
MarkJ (7fa185) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:36 pm#21
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:36 pmDmac you can drop the annoying theatricals. It’s not funny. Maybe you should try something else like ……disappearing. Leave the funny stuffs to Icy Truth and JD. It’s becoming embarassing.
Lying to Letterman???
In his announcement yesterday McCain said he would return to Washington AFTER speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative.
My understanding is that the Clinton Global Initiative was in NYC.
McCain’s plane touched down in DC just after noon today.
WLS (26b1e5) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:37 pmIt’s not funny
Awww, Lovey – are your widdle feelings getting hurt? Is it all getting to be too much for you, bunky? Then how about not acting the part of Idiot Troll for once on this blog, and start conducting yourself with something resembling a sentient human being? Either do that, or get the hell out of the sandbox.
Dmac (e639cc) — 9/25/2008 @ 7:55 pm#26
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:00 pmYou are the “idiot” of this blog. Now fold your tails and run along, stupid! You won’t be missed.
Washington Mutual failed tonight, was taken over by FDIC and sold to JP Morgan Chase.
All this while love2008 was trying to find a retort of greater than second grade … and failed to think of one.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:16 pmHopefully, JP Morgan Chase kicks the WaMu execs to the curb.
They are not fit to be bank tellers.
Michael Ejercito (a757fd) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:19 pmI liked Obama’s “not quite ready for prime-time” quotes today.
gus (c9651d) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:28 pm“No matter how this began”. Yeah, right.
I also liked the part about not needing to cancel the debate, because the President needs to be able to do more than one thing at a time.
2 thoughts. The President isn’t part of the cancelled debate. and 2, Obama, you are not the President.
This guy is an embarrassment. Biden is worse.
McCain had not even read the mere three pages of Paulson’s proposal as of Tuesday.
That’s the nutroot talking point of the day. If they’re going to be up in arms about something, they need to make sure it’s stupid and makes them look like idiots when people examine it closely. Aides typically brief the candidates in shit like this, but that doesn’t matter to the frothing nutroots. Briefing memos can have actual key provisions in them or key provisions summarizized in them, but that soesn’t matter to the hysterical nutroots, over the top they must go.
Hey, does anybody know if Obama has read the damn thing? Does anybody know when. This complicated stuff is not up his alley and his name is not being tossed around much in Washington right now. Is he doing anything? Bueller?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:30 pmgus – It’s that “This isn’t a crisis until Obama tells you it’s a crisis” elitism that endears him to ordinary Americans everywhere and is driving the price of arugula through the roof.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:33 pmI’m in a position to see how this is playing out with the Obamanation team.
The Democrats are TERRIFIED.
Some look stricken, others are catatonic, but most…look like their house caught fire at the same time their pipes burst.
For one thing, the financial houses they destroyed with their socialism experiments were their main source of funding.
Even worse (for them), their Hollyweird friends, their secondary source of funding, lost millions on this.
To top it all, with this strategic leadership move, McCain has stolen their Fuehrer’s lunch!
Obama is a Fascist (d4ab96) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:33 pm#31 daleyrocks – McCain had not even read the mere three pages of Paulson’s proposal as of Tuesday.
That’s the nutroot talking point of the day.
Everyone should watch the clip. McCain clearly states that he hasn’t seen it in writing, not that he hasn’t been briefed or doesn’t understand it.
Anybody selling the idea that the ‘bailout’ is relevant to Paulson’s proposal has their head in their ass.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:37 pmNot to mention, Apogee, that there were versions of the negotiations between Treasury and Democratic Congressional leaders that were never put on paper.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:39 pmThought Wamu was up to something when I saw their ads touting 4% interest on savings accounts. Now I’d worry about my free checking account with them if I had more than $1 residing in it. I personally loathe the banks and have turned down every offer for home equity loans. Haven’t been inside a bank nor paid a cent in atm fees in over ten years. I’d like the big shots to suffer and not have their losses covered by taxpayers too.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 9/25/2008 @ 8:45 pmDuring the Silverado mess, I had to question why people with more than $100,000 in FDIC covered accounts had to be reimbursed for the OVER 100k part when those assets were lost?
Not that I am any paragon of wisdom. I think my tax losses on stocks in past seventeen years are around $150k and my modest townhome is down by that same amount in past three years. I know people are being foreclosed and/or having aircraft carriers (SUVs) repossessed, but fact is many of those owners had zero equity in those homes and hence were renters and many of neighbors bought the big wheels with home equity loans.
A friend was living on credit cards and ran up bill on 17 of them to over $100k before declaring bankruptcy. Not that I feel for the banks as interest was up over 30%. How much are they making in profit compared to oil companies? Dude said a Cuban sitting in front of him at hearing filed for $400k bankruptcy for a restaurant he built but never opened. Someone is getting screwed.
max – You see all these kids getting out of college, getting a bunch of credit cards, living high and kiting the balances with free transfers. They can live fat, high and happy for a while making minimum payments. Ultimately something hits the fan, they want to file bankruptcy and walk away. That kind of stuff is what banks wanted protection against. Now of course, the Democrats want to rereform bankruptcy reform because it’s too tough. Sort of like they want to limit home foreclosures. I haven’t checked, are they proposing a moratorium on car repo’s, landlord evictions, and other situations where people can’t meet their contractual obligations?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/25/2008 @ 9:29 pmThat was an embarrassing interview for all Americans. Holy smokes! What a display of incompetence and idiocy.
— Well, you remember what Dan Rather said: CBS put her there to tart up the news, so how much can you expect?
That health care snippet was the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever seen. And I’m 48.
Icy Truth (2c3adb) — 9/25/2008 @ 9:47 pm— So with 20 or 30 years left, you’ll have plenty of writing opportunities where you can look at your work and be able to make that statement anew.
LobotomyLaw –
Isn’t McCain asking the President to ask Obama to attend a meeting exactly the “call me if you need me” Obama suggested?
— Isn’t it like, oh I don’t know, WRONG to suggest that Bush called Obama because McCain asked him to? And shouldn’t the Multitasking Messiah have just shown up without waiting for an invitation? He certainly didn’t need an invitation in order to show up at the Senate. You remember the Senate, don’t you? The place WHERE HE WORKS? (or is supposed to work)
After watching Gov. Palin’s interview with Katie Couric, I’m starting to think this was all an elaborate ploy to put off the VP debate.
Icy Truth (2c3adb) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:00 pm— Revealing yourself as a conspiracy theorist WOULD explain a lot.
I’m curious–given the gaffes, misstatements and sheer idiocy of McCain’s remarks on the economy last week (and we Independents DO remember them) what did McCain think he was going to add to Washington? He is not in any of the actual committees, and according to those who talk about McCain being for tightening regulation but it failing-that would indicate very little regard for McCain on either side of the aisle in this matter–but to read these posts, you are all congratulating yourselves on McCain and his bid to go to Washington?
What is he going to do there? Take up everyone’s time as they have to continually explain points to him, correct his misunderstanding of regulatory acronyms and tell him the limits of what he wants to do? The man looked like a Buffoon. I have suggested that he went back to provide comic relief for the Dems and to make the Republicans cringe. He is not savvy on the economy and it is not something one can be “briefed on” or brought up to snuff in a few sound bites or a few days. Odds are if he gets his notes wrong–he will get it all garbled up. Last week proved that to us.
What I find interesting is how like 2006 this all is. When many conservatives were on the blogs seeing a victory or minimal loss where there was a blood letting.
Step back for a minute. This may be a partisan blog-but you people are still Americans. As an Independent who is totally NOT in favor of government bailouts not even for Wallstreet and a fiscal conservative, I have to say this–McCain has run a horrendous campaign and though Sarah Palin is nice and very likeable she is an airhead and definitely NOT fit for VP or President. But now, I don’t think McCain is fit either. He is erractic and what he has been touting as being a maverick looks like he is schizophrenic. We need surety. Not just a calm, cool, collected personality but someone who KNOWS that Czechoslavakia no longer exists and that Al Qaida are not friends of Iran. Someone who knows where Pakistan is and is not crazy, eratic or suffering from PTSD and wants to redo Vietnam by redoing the wars we have now. Someone who inspires confidence. That said, Obama is too weak and I detest the Democratic ideas of spend, spend, spend.
Both parties have placed the country in a lose/lose. A lot of us really think this–but after the affrontry and horror of the Bush years, to paraphrase Dorthy Parker–at least Obama offers us a chance to say “What Fresh Hell is This?”
All of us may be shocked–all of you, because your candidate falls flat and loses, or me and the rest of the country because your candidate wins and once again the Republican base and their antics have helped to propel us all over a cliff. Iraq war, new Depression–and you people still have not learned a thing. At the very least–you should realize that your judgement about Presidents sucks…and that neither America or the world needs to suffer for whatever delusions you people persist on having.
queenbeethatsme9 (e5f100) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:03 pmLarry not-a-factor —
Poor old Bush even argued with one of the guys in a chicken suit at one point. That’s falling pretty low
— I’m sure you were in college and needed the money.
But, after lying to David Letterman, McCain stayed in New York and CAMPAIGNED there this morning
Icy Truth (2c3adb) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:09 pm— Only one person lying here (two if you count Letterman), and it’s not McCain.
On NBC a spokesperson for the McCain campaign admitted that they had suggested not only a cancellation of the Presidential debate, but also a date: Oct 2, the date of the VP debate. They refused to then say when or if they planned to schedule another debate for their Sarah. If she will be allowed outside to play that is. They keep her under wraps because if she has to go beyond the script or talking points–she is a bonafide airhead. That may sound sexist–but as a woman, it is not difficult to see when another woman does not have too much going on upstairs. I still like to see her though–but I require more from my VP picks than just windowdressing or tokens to win for a particular political party. If she is shown up to the country to really be an airhead (more so than the Couric interview) America will forever think that Republicans are willing to do anything to get elected including sell their own country out.
On another note–I am a family values person also and something that I noticed about the GOP platform concerns me. For the first time in US history, a party (the GOP ) who platforms on the sanctity of marriage and family values–will (if they elect McCain) be putting:
1. A man’s former mistress into the position of First lady
2. Putting unwed teens and their family in an exalted position.
Not that this does not represent America–but so does mental illness, drunks, gangs and murderers. We don’t put ordinary people into this job because the CIC and his sidekick represent our highest aspirations, not what we are–but where we hope to be. I don’t want my children, especially my girls to regard marriage, infidelity or pregnancy with impunity, and I certainly don’t want to fight the arguement that what they do and with whom means nothing because look how far Cindy McCain and Bristol Palin got. No thank you. I think the right is now showing that “family values” was just lip service and what we are doing now is beyond hypocrisy–the worst part is, how easily the idea of values and sticking with them was thrown out of the window–for an airhead and a former adultress.
queenbeethatsme9 (e5f100) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:19 pmqueenbee –
we Independents
I don’t care what your voter registration card says, that anti-Republican screed was never penned by an “Independent” in any true sense of the word…How much is Axelrod paying for this kind of work? Is he still hiring?
I’d say “Nice try,” but you’re evidently a rookie on the Axelrod team. Time to go back to AstroTurfing school…Here’s a hint, try starting your post with “As a concerned, Christian conservative I’m worried that…” It seems to be the preferred Axelrod methodology.
P.S. You gave yourself away as a Lefty Leftist with your final paragraph and your constant “you people” and “your judgment sucks”, etc. You just couldn’t keep your seething Lefty hate under control long enough just to hit the “Submit” button before you started in on the raving lunacy. Take a Xanax before trying again.
Jim B (95a401) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:25 pmqueenbee –
You really should have quit while you were only slightly embarrassing yourself.
You “just noticed the Republican platform”? You’re concerned about “unwed teens”? “Mental illness, drunks, gangs and murders”?
Christ Almighty, how bad are the internal polls for Obama that Axelrod dispatched you to start repeating all the old Lefty smears at this hour? (Do they let you ad lib at all or is it all cut-and-paste?)
I just posted on my own blog:
but even I didn’t expect it to begin until after a deal was announced. WOW! Thanks for letting us know just how bad things have gotten inside Camp Obama….
Jim B (95a401) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:32 pm“What I find interesting is how like 2006 this all is.”
Queen – Cool. So if you guys win your leaders are going to go back on all their major promises and not achieve any of their goals over the next few years? I like the concept.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:41 pmOmygosh – John McCain was married before?
STOP THE PRESSES!
I’m sure this 30-year-old FACT is gonna KILL his campaign. Maybe he should have admitted publicly this was a failure on his part.
Oh wait.
He did that.
And his former wife supports him.
So how is that going to play again?
steve miller (56f5a4) — 9/25/2008 @ 10:43 pmJHarp;
Non-sequitur alert:
#3 “Does it really matter if a deal gets done tonight or a week from tonight than it does the fact a fair deal is done?”
#18 “Exciting day.
Washington Mutual now toast. Done. Shareholders to get zero.
Largest Savings and Loan in the country. Kaput. Busted. Poof.”
I don’t know, maybe it does matter when a deal gets done. For some of us it seems obvious, for others, well call them if you need anything.
Can you really be so blind as to not be able to connect those dots? Every day that passes is another day for another “kaput” moment. Perhaps that is the plan.
Chris (cefe13) — 9/25/2008 @ 11:03 pmqueenbeethatsme9 —
I’m curious–given the gaffes, misstatements and sheer idiocy of McCain’s remarks on the economy last week (and we Independents DO remember them)
— And yet, if pressed you couldn’t come up with a single one right now. Ironic, ain’t it?
what did McCain think he was going to add to Washington?
— You may not have heard this but, believe it or not, HE WORKS THERE.
He is not in any of the actual committees,
— Are the committees that he’s on “unactual”? Like, oh say the Commerce Committee? or the Insurance Subcommittee? Do they have anything to do with this issue?
and according to those who talk about McCain being for tightening regulation but it failing-that would indicate very little regard for McCain on either side of the aisle in this matter–but to read these posts, you are all congratulating yourselves on McCain and his bid to go to Washington?
— They all hate him, so he should pick up his ball and go home; is that your point?
What is he going to do there?
— HIS JOB!!!
Take up everyone’s time as they have to continually explain points to him, correct his misunderstanding of regulatory acronyms and tell him the limits of what he wants to do?
— That’s right. He’s just a doddering old fool.
The man looked like a Buffoon. I have suggested that he went back to provide comic relief for the Dems and to make the Republicans cringe.
— Are you sure that you’re not speaking of your own presence here?
He is not savvy on the economy and it is not something one can be “briefed on” or brought up to snuff in a few sound bites or a few days.
— Isn’t it amazing how he’s made it through 26 years in an institution that deals with the economy all the time, and yet he’s somehow skirted it for his whole career?
Odds are if he gets his notes wrong–he will get it all garbled up. Last week proved that to us.
— Keep a good thought.
What I find interesting is how like 2006 this all is. When many conservatives were on the blogs seeing a victory or minimal loss where there was a blood letting.
— Don’t hold your breath . . . or do. Who am I to tell you what to do.
Step back for a minute.
— Step away from the crack pipe.
This may be a partisan blog-but you people are still Americans.
— How the hell do you know? We might be a bunch of bored Canadians, eh?
As an Independent who is totally NOT in favor of government bailouts not even for Wallstreet and a fiscal conservative, I have to say this–McCain has run a horrendous campaign and though Sarah Palin is nice and very likeable she is an airhead and definitely NOT fit for VP or President.
— Yeah, yeah. She’s a distaff Dan Quayle. And you’re a Moby.
But now, I don’t think McCain is fit either. He is erractic and what he has been touting as being a maverick looks like he is schizophrenic.
— That’s right; he’s mentally ill. Do you have evidence that he’s cruel to animals as well?
We need surety. Not just a calm, cool, collected personality but someone who KNOWS that Czechoslavakia no longer exists and that Al Qaida are not friends of Iran. Someone who knows where Pakistan is and is not crazy, eratic or suffering from PTSD and wants to redo Vietnam by redoing the wars we have now.
— Someone able to collect all of the talking points and list them in one blog post. Someone — we may not be talking about the same person; perhaps I’m schizophrenic.
Someone who inspires confidence. That said, Obama is too weak and I detest the Democratic ideas of spend, spend, spend.
— And ANOTHER Paulbot leaves the batcave.
Both parties have placed the country in a lose/lose. A lot of us really think this–but after the affrontry and horror of the Bush years, to paraphrase Dorthy Parker–at least Obama offers us a chance to say “What Fresh Hell is This?”
— And that’s a good thing?
All of us may be shocked–all of you, because your candidate falls flat and loses, or me and the rest of the country because your candidate wins and once again the Republican base and their antics have helped to propel us all over a cliff.
— Is it a new cliff? or are we still in mid-flight over the same cliff? or did we hit bottom and now we’re climbing back to the top of the same hill?
Iraq war, new Depression–and you people still have not learned a thing.
— Not true. We just learned that you think a situation where we aren’t even in a recession is actually a depression.
At the very least–you should realize that your judgement about Presidents sucks…and that neither America or the world needs to suffer for whatever delusions you people persist on having.
Icy Truth (aea3ff) — 9/25/2008 @ 11:35 pm— The WORLD suffers depending on who the US President is? Man! With that much power he should be asking Congress for a raise.
queenbeethatsme9 —
That may sound sexist–but as a woman, it is not difficult to see when another woman does not have too much going on upstairs.
— What do you see as a man? It figures that the view would be a bit different without the heels and false eyelashes.
WAIT! I denounce myself. Let’s try that again:
That may sound sexist–but as a woman, it is not difficult to see when another woman does not have too much going on upstairs.
— Let me tell you something: she’s got it goin’ on upstairs, downstairs, and all around! Know what I’m sayin’?
I require more from my VP picks than just windowdressing [sic] or tokens to win for a particular political party.
— What about the Presidential pick? [NO, I’m not going to denounce myself! I was going to say that he’s a token Marxist.]
If she is shown up to the country to really be an airhead (more so than the Couric interview) America will forever think that Republicans are willing to do anything to get elected including sell their own country out.
— Gee, overreact out of fear and desperation much?
On another note–I am a family values person also and something that I noticed about the GOP platform concerns me.
— And it concerns you SO MUCH that for the rest of your post you never say what it is about the platform that concerns you.
For the first time in US history, a party (the GOP ) who platforms on the sanctity of marriage and family values–will (if they elect McCain) be putting: 1. A man’s former mistress into the position of First lady
— That’s HIS WIFE to you. And you’re wrong too.
2. Putting unwed teens and their family in an exalted position.
— And what “exalted position” would that be? relative of the person who is actually in the exalted position?
Not that this does not represent America–but so does mental illness, drunks, gangs and murderers.
— Which one are you?
We don’t put ordinary people into this job because the CIC and his sidekick represent our highest aspirations, not what we are–but where we hope to be.
— Keep shoveling it. We elect the person we think can do the job well; we’re not doing a royal family search.
I don’t want my children, especially my girls to regard marriage, infidelity or pregnancy with impunity,
— Then do your job and impart your values to them.
and I certainly don’t want to fight the arguement [sic] that what they do and with whom means nothing because look how far Cindy McCain and Bristol Palin got. No thank you.
— So you want to vote against McCain because you want to teach your children that “one mistake and that’s it, you then must have a miserable life”?
I think the right is now showing that “family values” was just lip service and what we are doing now is beyond hypocrisy
— I think you should try thinking again.
the worst part is, how easily the idea of values and sticking with them was thrown out of the window–for an airhead and a former adultress [sic].
Icy Truth (33a0bd) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:34 am— Mixing metaphors, are we? What an ‘airheaded’ thing to do.
I worked in the field of geriatric nursing for almost 30 years and it’s my assessment that McCain is exhibiting some very mild mental impairment as part of the aging process. A certain percentage of elderly will have memory and problem-solving deficits and McCain is showing early signs of this. Very early…but this is a progressive process.
Dee Fitzpatrick (951c71) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:44 amThat assessment and $3.50 will get you a small latte at Starbucks.
Icy Truth (06b70f) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:21 amIt’s sickening to see medical and nursing professionals, if indeed you are telling the truth about yourself, compromise professional ethics to put out crap like that above. That ad about McCain’s melanoma has two MDs in it. I am going to inquire about their professional associations and write letters to the ethics committees. In 1964, the psychiatric society ruined its credibility forever by publishing a bogus “psychoanalysis” of Goldwater by people who had never met him. Psychiatry has never recovered its credibility with the rest of the medical profession.
I suspect you are lying about your qualifications, Dee. Emptying bedpans might be your field.
Mike K (2cf494) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:32 amMDs are people just like lawyers, there are some you would not use yourself.
And Dee, I believe a history of significant THC use has not been linked to a rise in IQ either.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/26/2008 @ 6:42 amMaybe someone addressed this is in the comments, but Obama did not “follow” McCain to washington (he actually beat him there since McCain’s pell-mell rush to Washington took 22 hours). Obama returned to DC because his President called him and asked him to come. Whatever one thinks about George Bush, and I agree with most Americans that he is a tool, when he calls you to Washington, you better have a damn good reason to say “no.”
Obama follow McCain? How? was he on Katie Couric for damage control too?
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:01 am*sigh* “follow” as in follow-his-lead in agreeing and deciding to go, not a quibble about who arrived first time-wise. What do you think this is, a track meet?
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:20 amWhat do you think is, a braille competition. Obama did not follow McCain, as I made clear. He went because the president asked him to. If you were confused over me making fun of McCain for lying to Letterman and taking 22 hours to reach Washington, I apologize. Next time, I’ll use smaller words.
“The point of the post is that Obama followed McCain’s lead, when he did not.”
I assume you understood that?
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:29 amThe point of the post is that Obama followed McCain’s lead.
Actually, Baracky tried to vote not-present on this, but really did not have much of a choice once President Bush called.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:39 amMcCain did not lie to Letterman, nuckfut!
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:46 amAnd, the point of my rebuttal, you tool, is that he did not.
As to your “substantive” point, I see McCain was able to roll the House Republicans right into line (as daley alleged he was called to Washington to do via Lindsay Graham). Oh, no he didn’t…..
So, Barack is alleged by a tool to vote present, while McCain is a failure at his one stated goal.
I don’t hink I say this, John Allen, but you are an inconsiderate ass, so pursuant to yesterday…
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:50 amIcy, Letterman said he did. So, call Letterman and complain. and, watch your language before you turn into jd
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 7:53 amg fck a swrdfsh
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:01 amtimmah – McCain stated what he was doing, suspending his campaigning to go to Washington to help work out the deal, which by the way Harry Reid had said the day before wouldn’t get done without his support. Baracky said fuck that noise the American people want to hear my platitudes and I can multitask. Then Bush called a meeting requesting leaders in Washington. I don’t know why it required Barack, but he was invited.
I think you’re forgetting that sequence of events timmah. It was also Schieffer who did the reporting, not me.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 8:04 amtimb —
From McCain’s announcement:
Tomorrow morning, I will suspend my campaign and return to Washington after speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative. I have spoken to Senator Obama and informed him of my decision and have asked him to join me.
I am calling on the President to convene a meeting with the leadership from both houses of Congress, including Senator Obama and myself. It is time for both parties to come together to solve this problem.
— From the beginning, McCain announced his itinerary (including the fact, for anyone who bothered to do the math, that it would take him 22 hours to get to DC) and extended his invitation for Obama to join (read: follow) him. Since McCain was the first one who decided to go; since he was the one who initiated the meeting with the president AND since he wanted to make sure that Obama was invited as well (to avoid making it look like the senior Senator from one state was taking advantage of his position to politically trump the junior Senator from another state during an election cycle), there is nothing spun or misstated or misrepresented in this article — at least, none of the things you mentioned.
Letterman told the audience that McCain had called him personally to apologize for standing him up and said he was rushing to the airport to get back to Washington.
— As explained above, McCain shared his itinerary when he made his announcement. Letterman is known for embellishing, paraphrasing, and outright changing what someone actually said for the purpose of making something funnier or giving it more impact. It’s his style. We don’t know what McCain actually said because Dave is, to say the least, an unreliable narrator. He is also a partisan liberal and, like many (most?) comedians, has self-esteem issues. The fact that he wouldn’t STFU about it for the rest of the show demonstrates that his ego was bruised and he felt the need to rant about it. In such an environment there is no way that you can count on him to give a precise accounting of what McCain said to him.
But, for the sake of discussion, let’s say that Dave accurately conveyed what McCain told him. 1) There wasn’t a single person on his staff — not even one — who either watched McCain’s statement or read it at his website or switched on one of the cable news channels for an update, wherein they would learn that McCain fully planned to stay in New York overnight? Hmm . . . maybe Dave was actually pissed at his staff for not telling him what McCain’s itinerary was going to be, and he decided to take it out on the candidate. 2) Would it really be unreasonable to read McCain saying that he needed to get back to Washington as a polite way of saying “nothing even slightly frivolous right now; it’s going to be strictly business for the foreseeable future”? Dave made reference to this factor when he said “I took a phone call from John McCain – a lot of senators don’t call me – and so I felt like OK, as part of the national good, I understand and I said good luck and thank you for being attentive to the cause.”
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:05 amThose quotes about and from Letterman are from the Dog Trainer blog article about Wednesday’s “Late Show”.
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:10 amI think it would be frikin’ awesome if McCain and the Republicans stopped this whole bailout thing dead in its tracks, at the expense of Bush and the Democrats. I might even forgive McCain for all his stupid pro-war crap if he did that.
I just saw this on the wire:
“We need to get the president to get the Republican House in order,” Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said on the Senate floor. “Without Republican cooperation, we cannot pass this bill.”
Schumer said Bush should also “respectfully tell Sen. McCain to get out of town. He is not helping, he is harming. Before Sen. McCain made his announcement, we were making progress.” Schumer was referring to McCain’s announcement earlier in the week that he was suspending his campaign to return to Washington for the negotiations on the financial industry crisis.
Talk about a stunning rebuttal of the Democrat’s line that McCain is more of the same — a confrontation with Democrats and Bush on one side and McCain and Republicans on the other side would bury that accusation in the ground.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:27 amHeh! McCain will debate — he’s on his way to Mississippi. Ok, Soetoro Bey, multitask!
nk (796b84) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:27 amI’m told “Bey” is redundant. In Indonesian, “Su” is the honorific. “Su (Sir) Barry Etero”.
nk (796b84) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:33 amNo, Icy, it wouldn’t, since, instead of going to Letterman’s show, he did another TV show. Letterman noted he was piqued by the last minute thing, but he seemed (and I’ve watched the tape) positively hacked to see McCain in Couric’s studio getting make-up applied.
I’ll go ahead and stand by the silence form the McCain campaign on the matter and Letterman’s consistent story, well, because I don’t care if McCain lied to Letterman, except that it was amusing
From the “left wing” New York Post
PS Your only recourse is to believe Letterman lied and since this is the official McCain response:
I don’t see how that’s tenable. For instance, if David “exaggerated” the phone call story, you’d think McCain’s campaign would tell us. I’m gonna go with their silence being an admission and you can believe what you want.
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 9:58 amtimb —
ME: Would it really be unreasonable to read McCain saying that he needed to get back to Washington as a polite way of saying “nothing even slightly frivolous right now; it’s going to be strictly business for the foreseeable future”?
YOU: No, Icy, it wouldn’t, since, instead of going to Letterman’s show, he did another TV show.
— Since I asked “would it be unreasonable” and you answered “no, it wouldn’t”, that means you agree with me. Thank You.
Letterman noted he was piqued by the last minute thing, but he seemed (and I’ve watched the tape) positively hacked to see McCain in Couric’s studio getting make-up applied.
— Agreed. And as a practicing lay psychologist who watched it as it was first being broadcast, I stated why I think that is.
I’ll go ahead and stand by the silence [from] the McCain campaign on the matter and Letterman’s consistent story, well, because I don’t care if McCain lied to Letterman, except that it was amusing
— You’ll stand by those being the facts of the matter . . . that the McCain campaign is silent (must have something to do with the campaign being suspended — or it’s because this is NOT a critical issue) and that Letterman basically has not changed his story. Fair enough, I’ll agree to that. Plus, we agree once again; I also found some amusement in Dave’s rant, while at the same time not really caring about it.
PS Your only recourse is to believe Letterman lied and since this is the official McCain response: McCain spokeswoman Nicolle Wallace said the campaign “felt this wasn’t a night for comedy.”
— Which speaks directly to what I guessed was the case: “nothing even slightly frivolous right now; it’s going to be strictly business for the foreseeable future”. I don’t know if Letterman was lying or not, but I stand by my previous statements, including the one about not taking what he says as a verbatim recitation of their conversation.
I don’t see how that’s tenable. For instance, if David “exaggerated” the phone call story, you’d think McCain’s campaign would tell us. I’m gonna go with their silence being an admission and you can believe what you want.
Icy Truth (ef009a) — 9/26/2008 @ 10:58 am— McCain’s campaign doesn’t care, just as they don’t (and shouldn’t) care about what any late-night comic says about him; I also don’t care; you say you don’t care and I want to take you at your word, despite the continued effort to show that Letterman wasn’t lying.
McCain spokeswoman Nicolle Wallace said the campaign “felt this wasn’t a night for comedy.”
“We deeply regret offending Mr. Letterman, but our candidate’s priority at this moment is to focus on this crisis,” Wallace said Thursday on NBC’s “Today.”
Oh man, this is so easy:
“Letterman is a time-wasting, no-talent dipshit, but any publicity is good publicity. Couric is a ditz way out of her depth but she is the anchor of one the Big Three and compared to Letterman she looks like Einstein. We tried to spare Letterman’s feelings but he is too stupid to take the hint.”
nk (796b84) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:10 amJust to clear up the whole Letterman thing, Letterman and Katie Couric’s interview spots both record in the afternoon. (I work in the CBS building where Couric is located.) McCain did in fact blow off Letterman to do an interview with Katie Couric. It’s a move to try to look more serious about “suspending” his campaign (never happened.) It’s political posturing, and must be pretty embarrassing for Republicans. Now he has to come back to the debate because he knows Obama will get the time alone. How can someone feel okay being so incredibly fake? And how can people possibly buy into any of it?
db (fd3146) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:12 amtimmah – I am not sure why you feel the need to post my name on here, nor why you felt the need to exert the effort to find out my name. It is pretty petty of you, and quite stalkerish. Please go away.
JD (41e64f) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:14 am“It’s political posturing, and must be pretty embarrassing for Republicans.”
db – Why, because he spent time with a “newsperson” who is a spokesperson for the Obama campaign instead of a comendian who is a spokesperson for the Obama campaign?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:23 amdb #71,
There is nothing more that Obama wants than to avoid a debate with McCain. McCain totally faked him out by making him hope this one would be cancelled. Obama is probably soiling his pants right now. You’ll see, tonight. Obama will be totally off his stride. McCain will stick it in and break it off.
Good job, you old, crippled POW!
nk (796b84) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:25 amtimb @68 – Nothing about that is clear on where McCain was when the call was made to Letterman or when the video was made of him getting ready for Couric’s show. Do you have that timeline?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 11:29 amDaley, all we know is what Letterman said, which is that McCain said he was headed to the airport and couldn’t do the show. Icy, apparently, cannot believe flip-flopping McCain would do that, whereas I’ll go with the news accounts and Letterman.
Recent studies show that partisans hear what they want to hear and ignore what conflicts with their notions. I attempt to hear what I don’t want to (notice me being here), but, perhaps Icy and I hear what we want to?
For instance, I believed Letterman’s story, but short of watching the clips and laughing, I didn’t look into it very much (frankly outside of Icy cursing at me, I think it was that unimportant).
Nonetheless, Icy’s reflexive belief in an opposite hypothesis led me to research it, as fully as I can without subpoenas. Again, Icy will believe what he will. I remain persuaded that Letterman’s story makes the most sense. But, that EXACTLY the reason I come here…to be challenged and forced to examine what I believe to be true.
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 12:54 pm#71 – db
Just to clear up the whole Letterman thing, Letterman and Katie Couric’s interview spots both record in the afternoon. (I work in the CBS building where Couric is located.)
— Acknowledged.
McCain did in fact blow off Letterman to do an interview with Katie Couric.
— Acknowledged.
It’s a move to try to look more serious about “suspending” his campaign (never happened.)
— 1) ‘Acknowledged’ on the move to look more serious (this marks the third time that I, a McCain campaign contributor, have noted it). 2) ‘Negative’ on the “he never really suspended his campaign” crap.
It’s political posturing, and must be pretty embarrassing for Republicans.
— Yeah, they all sound real embarrassed, don’t they?
Now he has to come back to the debate because he knows Obama will get the time alone.
— And because he has always wanted to be there; and maybe because all of the Dems have been challenging him to show up . . . he never backs down from a challenge.
How can someone feel okay being so incredibly fake? And how can people possibly buy into any of it?
Icy Truth (a6ffde) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:06 pm— In what way has he been fake? by suspending his campaign for a day so that he could go do HIS JOB? You remember his job, don’t you? the thing that the American taxpayers pay him to do?
timb – You challenged me yesterday to produce an actual press release from Paulson inviting McCain to Washington as a standatd of proof rather than statements of surrogates yet you hold yourself to ridiculouly low standards yourself. Sorry, that doesn’t fly.
You don’t have any evidence of where McCain made his call to Letterman from or what the time between that call and thew video in the make up room was. You’ve got nothing except what you want to believe, as you suggest.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:10 pmDaley, all we know is what Letterman said, which is that McCain said he was headed to the airport and couldn’t do the show.
— What Letterman said has not been disputed, so it’s rather pointless to keep repeating it.
Icy, apparently, cannot believe flip-flopping McCain would do that, whereas I’ll go with the news accounts and Letterman.
— 1) The news accounts contain (as you yourself noted) NO confirmation that McCain said it; the only thing they are reporting is Letterman’s side of it. 2) I never — NEVER!!! — said that I don’t believe McCain would say it. I said: a) the exact same thing YOU said, that I don’t care; b) that even though I don’t care, that doesn’t mean I’m going to accept Letterman’s word as gospel. Given that one of his set routines is to take something that someone in the news says or does, and then in repeating it deliberately skew the facts or the words uttered by the person in question, I’m not prepared to play human lie detector and say “I think that what Dave said IS what John said, word for word”. And, c) if McCain did say it exactly as Letterman reported it (keeping in mind that neither one of us cares), it means what db and I said it means: “too busy for frivolity, gotta go take care of business”.
Recent studies show that partisans hear what they want to hear and ignore what conflicts with their notions. I attempt to hear what I don’t want to (notice me being here), but, perhaps Icy and I hear what we want to?
— Sorry, I hear what WAS said, and don’t presume to know, based only on one person’s testimony — firsthand though it may be — what the other party said.
For instance, I believed Letterman’s story, but short of watching the clips and laughing, I didn’t look into it very much (frankly outside of Icy cursing at me, I think it was that unimportant).
— PRECISELY! It isn’t about what you heard; it’s about what you believe.
Nonetheless, Icy’s reflexive belief in an opposite hypothesis led me to research it, as fully as I can without subpoenas.
— I do not believe in an opposite hypothesis.
Again, Icy will believe what he will.
— I believe in what I know, and don’t hold blind faith in what I postulate (speaking of the secular world, now). How ’bout you?
I remain persuaded that Letterman’s story makes the most sense. But, that EXACTLY the reason I come here…to be challenged and forced to examine what I believe to be true.
Icy Truth (894e4f) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:39 pm— But it still is not important, right?
well, I do have the testimony of one of the parties of said phone call, who said it was 3 in the afternoon and McCain claimed he was in the car on the way to the airport. I put the link to the video up there. Any chance you watched it?
In both of these cases I presented contemporary facts to buttress my claim. In the Schieffer case, we have Graham and Paulson as parties to a call and Schieffer as the reporter. Paulson never said he called Graham and, as I pointed out, it seems unlikely he would ask a Senator to come in and go Tom Delay on the HOUSE Republicans. To believe Schieffer’s story, you have to believe Lindsay. I do not, as a rule except anything Lindsay says without an independent source; you do.
In Letterman’s case, you either believe Letterman was lying or embellishing about the phone call or you think McCain lied in his excuse (the stories cannot be reconciled). Since Letterman remains true to his story and was visibly upset when the truth was revealed AND McCain’s camp had two spokespeople speak on the subject and not refute it, then I’m inclined to believe the guy who told the story.
More precisely, the only ones saying Letterman’s version is not true are you and Icy. McCain won’t even deny it.
Jeez, after reading your post again, I have to remember the snarling hostility you evince and not try to proffer any more olive branches.
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 1:50 pmLetterman says he did.
As to #61 and so you don’t embarrass yourself, Mr. pink made the unfortunate choice to ask questions of Jeff Goldstein. Mr. Goldstein did not like the question/criticism and told Mr. Pink to go f**k a frozen swordfish. Mr. pink and I have never directly corresponded and, given the tenor of his comments yesterday, I don’t think it would a stretch to say he does not agree with me politically, but he would refrain from asking me to fornicate with frozen fish.
Now, if you can reconcile the “McCain did not lie…” with the gibberish above, then I will read it. If you not care to reconcile, then I will assume we made our points and have merged, as usual, on different sides of reality, e.g.
yeah, I heard Letterman say McCain lied to him and I believed it. Further research confirmed my belief.
Nonetheless, have a splendid weekend, Icy and Daley and we resume our talks on current events later.
timb (a83d56) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:02 pmTimb – Are you now backtracking over what you said McCain was lying about to Letterman? Earlier you said that McCain saying he was on his way to the airport was a lie and that Letterman had video of McCain in a CBS make up room which proved it was a lie. I siad without the yime line of when McCain called Letterman to cancel, where the call came from, and when the make up room video was shot, you’ve got nothing. That’s still the case on your assertions. It’s simple. No hostility.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:14 pmMore precisely, the only ones saying Letterman’s version is not true are you and Icy. McCain won’t even deny it.
— Listen up, rag! I STILL have never (can you see those ‘NEVER’s up above?) said that I think Letterman’s version is not true. Here is what I say:
– Regardless of whether or not you believe it, you DO NOT know that it’s true.
Icy Truth (e76595) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:17 pm– The McCain campaign’s inattention to it means NOTHING. Show me a documented instance where ANY of the campaigns this year issued a statement countering something said by a late-night comic. They respond to these things the same way they do to the tabloids: it keeps the candidate’s name out there, and it’s easy to lose focus if you spend all of your time squashing rumor and innuendo; therefore, they ignore it unless they are questioned by a legitimate news outlet about it.
– Even if it went down exactly like Dave said it did, WHO CARES? It means nothing (you said so yourself, ‘member?). If anything he should be grateful that it provided him an opportunity to act like someone younger than his own son. He pitched his little bitch-fit, let the world see how completely and utterly insecure he is (despite the multitude of blessings in his life), has received some press attention (and maybe a little ratings boost), and he will do it again tonight — partly because his condition still exists, partly because the talented and mostly-professional performer inside of him knows to milk a current events story for all that it’s worth; and then it will fade.
timb — At least you’re getting closer. You seem to understand that it was your use of the word “lie” that is a big part of the problem. Ya know, at some point we all have to grow up. That line from the TV show House — “Everybody lies” — is something to keep in mind when dealing with real people and real life. There’s also a reason why other words, like “falsehood” or “fib” are in our vocabulary. There are things you say in a deliberate attempt to deceive and there are things you say in order to give people the brush-off. Do they hold the same weight? Should you feel equally hurt by anything less than the truth? no matter how trivial the matter at hand might be? regardless of the circumstances for the person who is brushing you off?
I am not saying — and still to this moment have not said — that John McCain is blameless for this little incident. I am saying what you said FIRST, way back when: it – does- not- matter. The fact that Letterman threw his tantrum doesn’t make McCain a big evil liar; it means that Dave needs to be looked at by a professional. Doubtless there will be a time (between now and Election Day, or between Election Day and Inauguration Day) when McCain will come on Dave’s show and apologize for stiffing him; and when Dave brings up the specific details maybe McCain will acknowledge them and say that he was wrong to say it the way he (allegedly) did. And OUR response at such a time? The same as now: “So what?”
Icy Truth (e76595) — 9/26/2008 @ 2:40 pm