Patterico's Pontifications

9/25/2008

John McCain: Resetting the Narrative

Filed under: 2008 Election,Current Events,Politics — Karl @ 6:45 am



[Posted by Karl]

Patterico, DRJ and WLS have already debated the wisdom of John McCain’s decision to head to DC to work on the Wall Street rescue/ bailout/ whatever, based primarily on their differing assessments of the political impression each believes the decision creates. 

It might be worth looking at McCain’s decision from a slightly different, more “meta” perspective.  The following analysis is one where the phrase “rightly or wrongly” could be added as a qualifier to almost every point, so mentally add it where appropriate.

Consider the position of the McCain campaign.  In the past week, McCain has been the subject of awful media coverage.  Last week was one of the rare weeks when McCain got more media coverage than Barack Obama — and his poll numbers fell (the opposite relationship had been true previously, for both McCain and Obama).  Much of the coverage was about the Wall Street turmoil, starting with McCain getting dinged in the press for saying that the “fundamentals of our economy are strong.”  But there was also a growing media Narrative about McCain’s campaign being dishonest and playing the race card, which led to the campaign attacking the media, which led to the media doubling down on their criticism while ratcheting up complaints about lack of access, criticism that McCain was trying to change the subject from the economy, etc.  This Narrative might have been helping Michele Obama’s kids, but it was not helping John McCain’s campaign.

McCain’s decision to head back to the Senate reset the mediasphere’s Narrative.  Compare Memeorandum at 3:30 PM ET yesterday with 5:00 PM ET.  McCain’s fight with the New York Times, discussions about McCain’s poll standings, criticism of Sarah Palin, etc. all start dropping off the radar, particularly among the Big Media outlets.  Coverage of Obama mostly shifted to his reaction to McCain’s action.  Meanwhile, Pres. Bush called on Obama to attend a meeting in DC today, which he agreed to do (mostly because it is nigh upon an offer one cannot refuse).  Thus, Obama is forced off the campaign trail for a day, into a forum where partisan rhetoric blaming Bush policies or linking McCain to the “old boy’s network” will turn off voters in the mushy middle.  Moreover, Obama’s appearance will create the impression among some that DC is in fact the place to be at this moment in history.

Did McCain make the “correct” decision here?  I don’t pretend to know with any degree of certainty.  Reasonable arguments can be made on both sides (and have been on this blog alone).  However, Camp McCain seems to have concluded that they prefer having everyone debate the question; it is the battlefield Camp McCain has selected.  The campaign forced the media focus to what McCain is doing with respect to this decision.  Whatever criticism the campaign gets for the decision apparently was deemed by the campaign to be an improvement over the volume and tone of the criticism the campaign was getting before the decision.

–Karl

166 Responses to “John McCain: Resetting the Narrative”

  1. This – a stunt, McCain has no understanding of economics

    rawdawgbuffalo (f30fa3)

  2. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122230704116773989.html

    http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/024880.php Check this out

    The Paulson plan could a lot of money in profits for the USA. Seriously, there is risk but the Government could make as much as a TRILLION Dollars in the long haul. If any profits are rolled over to pay off the deficit, this could be a huge windfall and opportunity for the Government.

    Joe (8102a5)

  3. There is high risk in the move but the word I read was that the Bush-Paulson plan was not going to pass.

    Democrats are saying that everybody has agreed that the government will accept an ownership stake in firms that are bailed out. That was not what I heard and Harry Reid has already lied that McCain was in agreement with their plan. That was the Chris Dodd plan and anybody who would let him set the rules is crazy. He is the crook most at fault for this mess. Barney Frank, who is pontificating on TV that McCain is not needed, is the guy who stopped the McCain reform of Fannie-Freddie in 2003. These guys are the problem, not the solution.

    The key factor is the price that will be paid for these suspect financial instruments. These are being sold by surviving firms. It is not like the RTC where the S&Ls were seized with all assets, good and bad. The government should probably have an open auction of assets. Biding can start low and see if anybody else wants them. Once a market is made, the prices will appear. This is NOT what the Democrats want but the Dodd plan would socialize the financial markets and lead to more of what we have now.

    Remember, this is a political crisis and McCain is the guy who has been trying for years to fix it. He is the only one with credibility.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  4. The political risk for McCain here is that he’ll go to Washington, and succeed like he normally does, by giving the Democrats exactly what they want, with only some token, meaningless bits to attempt to appease fiscal conservatives, and then convince enough of his liberal Republican Senator allies to concoct a new Gang of nn and ram it through.

    This will, of course, discourage the base again and destroy everything he gained by the Palin pick, and ensure a large Obama victory, but hey, he’ll have another McCain-Democrat bill to his credit. Maybe McCain-Reid this time, or McCain-Dodd?

    Skip (522b21)

  5. I like your read, Skip. And if McCain wins you just know he’s going to really work with the Democratic Congress.

    I’ve been thinking that divided government/McCain win is the way to ensure gridlock. McCain is kryptonite to gridlock. Damn.

    Bel Aire (e59286)

  6. Text of Draft Proposal for Bailout Plan:
    “Sec. 8. Review.
    Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21draftcnd.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

    Gingrich: $700B Bailout ‘Essentially Wrong’:
    http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,426221,00.html

    How do you all like the “Section 8” of the Bailout Plan?

    Soul (fb5579)

  7. #1

    Yeah, for a “stunt” McCain knows nothing about Fannie Mae

    1 guess who put a stop to that bill

    Compare what Barney Frank is bleating today and what he said in 2003

    ”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

    McCain took the lead and Prince Feckless was left “umming” and “ahhing” and trying to figure out how to vote “present”.

    Darleen (187edc)

  8. Darleen – Baracky never has to figure out how to vote present. It is his natural default position.

    JD (41e64f)

  9. Well

    From afar its looking like this through the BBC/ALJAZEERA/MSNBC filters on TV

    The Senate looked for leadership – John McCain came back to serve his country – Obama is facing an empty podium talking about how this was a day that would come (where I vote present in front of the entire country)

    EricPWJohnson (c00a5d)

  10. Karl, dead on analysis. Partisans on both sides of the election will reject or embrace the decision (as one, I think it was silly decision), but the fact remains, as you noted, there is not nearly as much discussion about poll numbers and the past relationships. It is grandstanding, but as political strategy, it is the battlefield he wants to fight upon.

    As you know, I don’t often agree with you (I know, I know, that keeps you up nights), but your analysis here is really spot on. Kudos to Karl

    timb (a83d56)

  11. I think you make good points. I bumped the post to the top. (There are good posts from WLS I just put up, but this is really the issue of the day.)

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  12. I think that Karl is correct in the sense that this move is designed to appeal to the independents in the mushy middle, as well as move out of the MSM downdraft of the last 10 days.

    While the MSM will predictably play up O!s glib response about the presidency and multi-tasking, this may be too smart by half. For instance, they were the ones that were Outraged! when eeeeeevil Booooooosh didn’t drop everything and Focus! on the aftermath of Katrina. Likewise, one of the major raps of the Iraqi war occupation was that Boooooosh let Rummy try and do it on the cheap-so to speak; essentially that he delegated the responsibility once victory had been declared-that once again, he had lost Focus. So while O!s declaration has given his ideological brownshirts another talking point, one that may resonate-especially among the intelligentsia, it is just another empty talking point that lacks any real substance when viewed outside of the context of exploiting a political opportunity.

    In contrast, Mav’s public pronouncement that the current financial crisis was above partisan politics and that, concomitantly, he would temporarily suspend his campaign to do the country’s business, will be seen, except by the most partisan and cynical, as a truly patriotic and post-partisan move; it will especially resonate with those independents that are tired of partisan bickering in government and its inevitable gridlock. Regardless of the MSM spin machine, people will remember that Mav put the surge ahead of his electoral success and will associate this as a similar move. In that sense it will powerfully, but subtly, reinforces his country first campaign theme as well as the importance of reform to his persona.

    So, in the end this effectively will change the MSM narrative whether they like it or not; Mav has compelled a change of subject-let’s see how it works out. And although many on the right are hand-wringing, like worrisome libs, that he is blowing it somehow by doing it…

    Well, in addition to changing the narrative, and underscoring his real post-partisanship, he’s reminding all in a way writ large that he is a…Maverick!

    Bob (99fc1b)

  13. Leadership by Invitation

    KROFT: Why you? I mean, why do you think you would be a good president?

    OBAMA: Well, I was going to get to that.

    KROFT: Go ahead.

    OBAMA: You know, I’m a, I’m a practical person. One of the things I’m good at is getting people in a room with a bunch of different ideas who sometimes violently disagree with each other and finding common ground and a sense of common direction. And that’s the kind of approach that I think prevents you from making some of the enormous mistakes that we’ve seen over the last eight years.

    Isn’t this exactly what John McCain is doing ?

    So it now takes an invitation from the President to get Obama to join in the discussions .. LOL

    Neo (cba5df)

  14. McCain is a sly fox. Cunning old politician. Now he wants to appear as if he is putting country first by abandoning his campaign to go to DC. It is clear that he has not been doing so well on the polls and knowing very well the art of distraction, he has pulled this new stunt to turn the attention away from himself, and try to make Obama look like the unpatriotic one. Well, Americans ain’t that stupid. Bottom line, this Republican administration has failed and he is a part of it. Come November we will kick them out of power and bring in the Change We Need! Can you see the handwriting on the wall?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  15. Love2008
    take a look at this opinion

    voiceofreason2 (590c85)

  16. The poll numbers show a big shift to McCain by independents. I think this will cement that shift. I don’t think he can cave in to the Democrats on the ownership thing but the threat that Monday morning there will still be no deal may force Pelosi-Reid to make a deal. If so, McCain wins.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  17. Kubaya, my Lord, Kumbaya…Lovey’s oft – used meme rears it’s ugly head, once again.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  18. One of the things I’m good at is getting people in a room with a bunch of different ideas who sometimes violently disagree with each other and finding common ground and a sense of common direction

    He says this, but there is an absolute complete lack of evidence of this actually happening in his record. The closest to disagreement in his record is how far Left to go.

    JD (41e64f)

  19. Here is a breaking story:

    So much for a “stunt.”

    John McCain got involved in the bailout negotiations after Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson told Sen. Lindsey Graham yesterday that the bailout plan would fail unless McCain came in and brought balky Republicans aboard. That’s what Bob Schieffer reported on this morning’s Early Show. Schieffer’s account stands in stark contrast with the allegation by Dems like Barney Frank and their MSM cohorts that McCain’s moves of yesterday were nothing more than a political “stunt.”

    Here was Schieffer speaking with the Early Show’s Maggie Rodriguez at 7:05 AM EDT today:

    BOB SCHIEFFER: I am told, Maggie, that the way McCain got involved in this in the first place, the Treasury Secretary was briefing Republicans in the House yesterday, the Republican conference, asked how many were ready to support the bailout plan. Only four of them held up their hands. Paulson then called, according to my sources, Senator Lindsey Graham, who is very close to John McCain, and told him: you’ve got to get the people in the McCain campaign, you’ve got to convince John McCain to give these Republicans some political cover. If you don’t do that, this whole bailout plan is going to fail. So that’s how, McCain, apparently, became involved.

    Continued Schieffer . . .

    SCHIEFFER: He has gotten what he wants, he’s going to have this meeting, kind of a summit today with the president and Barack Obama. I’m told that the leaders of both parties are getting close to having some kind of a bill. The question, though, is whether rank-and-file Republicans, especially, are going to vote for this.

    And that’s where McCain comes in.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  20. Bottom line, this Republican administration has failed and he is a part of it.

    Never let reality get in the way of a good narrative.

    JD (41e64f)

  21. Assuming that this story about Paulson is true, then it makes McCain’s visit to Washington itself seem like less of a stunt. But pulling down all his campaign ads, and asking to postpone the debates? Still a stunt.

    Not that I hold that against him. McCain is definitely entertaining to watch. Never boring.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  22. You guys are scared and now you pull the patriotic card to divert attention from a campaign going south. Well, we will see. WE WILL SEE!

    love2008 (1b037c)

  23. Patterico,

    Thanks for the bump.

    timmah!

    Credit for avoiding the partisan non sequitur response duly given. After all, McCain would be happy with a partisan reaction.

    Karl (1b4668)

  24. Now he wants to appear as if he is putting country first

    See, Republicans/conservatives never do anything in good faith. Why, 22 years of McCain in the military was just a self-serving stunt on the road to candidacy…including giving over 25% of his income to charity, adopting a child, doing all manner of bi-partisan leadership in the Senate including trying several times over the last 5 or so years to reform Freddie/Fannie.

    Stunts, one and all!

    Darleen (187edc)

  25. When are you guys going to put partisanship aside and call McCain out on his running away from a debate? He knows this debate will do nothing but destroy him completely. If it was Obama that called off this debate, that would have focused on foreign affairs and national security, to go to the senate, you all would have been saying how scared he is and how he doesn’t want to face McCain on his turf. But I don’t see anyone mentioning that. Why am I not surprised?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  26. lovie – When are you going to quit being a mendoucheous troll?

    JD (41e64f)

  27. #26
    When you start telling the truth, JD.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  28. Wow, I see on Andrew Sullivan’s site that Palin got annointed to protect her from witchcraft. If she and McCain wins, will the White House get a new exorcism room?

    Jack (a9896a)

  29. Love1008, they will never do that, because like you (and me), they are rooting for a team in this race. They aren’t gonna bad-mouth their team when he’s rallying. Go to Huffington Post for those critiques (I know I do).

    As far as the Schieffer story above, Bob has never been gifted as far as journalists goes and he takes the word from one of McCain’s hacks, Senator Graham and reports it like he’s Judy Miller. Nice work, Bob. I’m supposed to believe that John McCain, conservative hero and master of the Gang of 14 and McCain/Kennedy, is going to roll the conservative Republicans in the House?

    Sure he is.

    Nonetheless, good story for Lindsay to get out, since the bill will done tomorrow, McCain can still avoid the debate, and Boehner will have pulled enough Republicans into line to declare victory if it works and enough Republicans will vote against it, he can castigate Pelosi and the dems if it doesn’t.

    After a week of flubs, Johnny Mac’s playing politics with the skill of an LBJ. How these stunts play with persuadable voters (which none of us are), I do not know. But, it sure beats yesterday’s headlines for John and proves Karl’s thesis is right on.

    PS Karl, it has not gotten any easier for me to type that.

    timb (a83d56)

  30. lovie – Please direct me to where I have lied.

    JD (41e64f)

  31. First, Obama needs to continue fund raising. If he comes back to Washington, he cannot raise money. His burn rate is about $60M per month and he has got to keep the cash flowing.

    Second, Obama’s job is in the United States Senate. We, the people, pay him to write, debate and approve legislation. These activities take place in Washington, not at Ole Miss. T. Boone Pickins, an Obama supporter, calls this an economic Pearl Harbor and he thinks it needs to be fixed now. I agree.

    Third, the credit melt down centered around Fannie and Freddy has been long coming. Despite that fact, democrats have blocked the republican efforts since 2001.

    Fourth, the candidate working across the aisle is McCain. In spite of Obama’s claims to the contrary, this is not a done deal.

    Finally, Obama’s pals are in this one up to their necks. They do not want to have to admit that they are beholden to the people responsible for this mess.

    arch (38be06)

  32. The McCain campaign just should have said this to Obama’s initial refusal to come off the campaign trail:

    “We understand Senator Obama’s position, and his presence probably isn’t necessary. However, Senator McCain has more responsibility and carries more weight within his respective party’s caucus than does Senator Obam, and because of the respect his colleagues have for him, Senator McCain has to attend to his Senatorial duties first.”

    headhunt23 (9e1243)

  33. Why am I not surprised?

    Gee, I don’t know – because you’re a fatuous git?

    And only Timmah! would cite the Huffy for something allegedly objective. This is the same rag that routinely prints screeds calling Palin a whore (by Naomi Femmy/Wolfie) and Bush another Hitler. Fine work there, Timmah!

    Dmac (e639cc)

  34. You know, I always look on the comments list to see if Dmac or Icy or JD are posting. DRJ and Patterico, too, of course.

    But sometimes, I want to see the fisking. Dmac, you have mad skillz!

    Eric Blair (81e599)

  35. And the love2008 Express rolls on –

    McCain is a sly fox. Cunning old politician. Now he wants to appear as if he is putting country first by abandoning his campaign to go to DC.
    — So he’s crafting an image to match his slogan. There’s nothing genuine or honest in what he’s doing?

    It is clear that he has not been doing so well on the polls and knowing very well the art of distraction, he has pulled this new stunt to turn the attention away from himself, and try to make Obama look like the unpatriotic one.
    — Who was THE top story on all three network evening news shows last night? Was it the President, who was about to deliver a critical address to the nation? Was it the specific story of the bailout proposal itself? NO. It was the man who was pulling a stunt to “turn the attention away from himself” who was front and center. He’s turned the attention away from himself so much that Obama had to make a public announcement in response. He’s turned the attention away from himself so much that he drove Letterman into an apoplectic frenzy, to the point where — of all people — Olbermann seemed uncomfortable with Dave’s carrying-on. He’s turned the attention away from himself so much that the current top story (most commented upon) at the Daily Kos is “Morning Reaction to McCain’s Campaign Suspension”; most commented upon (by a mile) HuffPo article: “McCain Gambles In Effort To Regain The Offensive”; it is also the headline story on the HuffPo homepage, and the subject of most of the columns from its regular contributors today.

    Well, Americans ain’t that stupid. Bottom line, this Republican administration has failed and he is a part of it.
    — He’s a member of the administration now? Are all Republican members of Congress de facto members of the administration?

    Come November we will kick them out of power and bring in the Change We Need! Can you see the handwriting on the wall?
    — Does it say “love2008 engages in parroting Dem talking points and flinging cliches”?

    Icy Truth (b28aae)

  36. Eric – I’m here mostly for the Trolls these days; and we seem to be getting a plethora of them lately. A sure sign of growing success, perhaps?

    Dmac (e639cc)

  37. #28 – Jack

    If she and McCain wins, will the White House get a new exorcism room?

    — Absolutely. And they could use it to drive out the demon spirit of Che Guevara that has possessed Obama.

    Icy Truth (b28aae)

  38. Icy actually deconstructs the trollery (hat tip), and Dmac, you, just fuel-air bomb them. It’s a lovely thing to see.

    The trolls are really messed up. And I do think that there is a concerted effort by pro-Obama trolls to astroturf talking points across the internet. Kind of black helicopter-ish, maybe, I keep thinking “Conspiracy: Yes We Can!

    On the other hand, my brother always warned me to keep in mind that idiots are, well, idiots. They aren’t geniuses.

    Eric Blair (81e599)

  39. You’re probably right – more akin to “Dr. Evil” from the Austin Powers movies.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  40. Dmac, you silly little boy, I cited Huffington Post as a liberal blog site to read the criticism of McCain which lovie wants to read. I never cited it as anything objective, but, then again, I understand your stupidity probably hurts your ability to read. You keep trying, d, and someday you’ll get there.

    Oh! Maybe, lovie should seek criticism of McCain’s decision not to debate from the folks here? Or, maybe, dmac, he should ask your blinkered, half-wit partisan opinion on which lefty blog is the best? Let’s see a dude far enough to the right to think Jeff Goldstein and Patrick are reasonable right wingers and Naomi Wolf is Satan….which left wing blog would he approve of?

    The Weekly Standard? National Review?

    Realize dmac, as a freeper, you’re pretty far out there. Then again, as mentioned above, your stupidity probably hampers your self-awareness too.

    timb (a83d56)

  41. Honestly, Dmac, I have been pretty worried about this election. And I need to laugh. So while some of the trolls make me more concerned about November, watching you and a few others skool them helps.

    Eric Blair (81e599)

  42. More love –

    When are you guys going to put partisanship aside and call McCain out on his running away from a debate?
    — He isn’t running away; he’s going back to do his job! I know that it gets confusing, especially since Obama announced that being CEO of his campaign is his executive experience, but the fact remains that — for both of them — the job they have been hired to do is that of US Senator representing one of the 50 states in our union. And let’s also remember that in McCain’s case he is the Senior Senator for his state. It would be irresponsible for him not to be there. As the Junior (read: much less experienced) Senator for his state, Obama has an out. He can defer to Dick Durbin, the man who actually knows people in Congress and is capable of getting things done.

    He knows this debate will do nothing but destroy him completely.
    — He knows nothing of the kind.

    If it was Obama that called off this debate, that would have focused on foreign affairs and national security, to go to the senate, you all would have been saying how scared he is and how he doesn’t want to face McCain on his turf.
    — We’re already saying how scared he is because he chickened-out on the 10 town hall meetings proposed by McCain. They could have engaged in 4 or 5 of those by now; that is, if Bambi hadn’t been a wuss about it.

    But I don’t see anyone mentioning that. Why am I not surprised?
    — You don’t read back your own drivel? I don’t blame you.

    Icy Truth (3a3033)

  43. Timb would you do me a favor and tell me what issues someone would have to agree with that makes them “far right”? You know like anti-abortion or whatever. I am seriously curious this is not a troll question.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  44. When are you guys going to put partisanship aside and call McCain out on his running away from a debate?

    I know I’ll hate myself in the morning, but…. love2008, is it remotely possible for you to wrap your mind around this:

    McCain considers a debate secondary to this economic crisis.

    When weighing the two, the ecnomic crisis at hand is a far more immediate need that cannot be postponed like a debate.

    Can you imagine that perhaps McCain has a broader picture of what is taking place rather than just the immediate picture of polling numbers?

    And, obviously if he is willing to risk the ridicule and assumptions of people like you in essentially calling him a chicken running away from the debates, it shows me he something other than his own personal best interest at heart – rather that of the American people. Frankly, I like that in a man who wants to assume the most powerful position in the world.

    Does the left even begin to grasp the concept of sacrificing for others?

    Dana (b4a26c)

  45. Others are the ones that have to do the sacrificing Dana. Like “the rich” or “Big Oil”.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  46. Idiot troll savant (savant in sense of obfuscation par excellence)-

    So McCain is a pussy for postponing a Friday debate? And yet you have nothing to say about fecal decorative-Obama backing out on nearly all the previously agreed to town hall debates. Maybe if he could have a teleprompter all the time, uh, er, eh? Or Obama agreeing to take public financing and then backing out? Why are liberal so afraid of Palin if she really sucks as veep nominee. You have impeached former judge/now congresscreep Hastings accusing her of hating the Jooooos and blacks because she hunts moose.
    I know you libs get a woodie thinking of Obama but the anointed neophyte ZERO has no clothes and no cojones. And yet the arrogant arugula assclown is having gold coins struck abroad commemorating his impending potus messiahship? Camel dung!

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  47. It may interest TIMMAH! to know that I’m a registered Dem here in Chicago, and have voted for Mayors Washington, Daley (whom I can’t stand) and current Cook County board member Forrest Claypool (D). I also was involved in Claypool’s reformist campaign to unseat the corrupt President of Cook County (John Stroger, Senior), but a last – minute endorsement from the Messiah to his political Godfather turned me permanently against him. But TIMMAH! wouldn’t know any of this, since he seems to have come onto this site to post his ravings only recently.

    half-wit partisan opinion on which lefty blog is the best?

    Gee, TIMMAH!, I don’t know if my “half – wit partisan opinion” is up to the job, but here’s what I consider to be mildly left sites that I peruse on a daily basis:

    Sadly, No!
    Kausfiles
    Politico
    Salon (general)
    The New Yorker

    No doubt that TIMMAH! will immediately denounce all of these rabidly conservative outlets as being completely in the tank for the GOP.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  48. Salon (general)

    Really, Dmac??? I’m going to have to rethink our relationship. 🙂

    Dana (b4a26c)

  49. You have impeached former judge/now congresscreep Hastings accusing her of hating the Jooooos and blacks because she hunts moose.

    Has anyone figured that one out, yet?

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  50. Dana,

    “McCain considers a debate secondary to this economic crisis.”

    Then why has McCain admitted that, as of Tuesday at the least, he hadn’t had a chance to look at the Paulson plan yet.

    McCain is a coward. He is getting his ass handed to him and he runs and hides.

    What. A. Pussy.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  51. Do you really think “coward” is a word that applies to McCain? Seriously how deranged are you?

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  52. I am sure you have much more bravery than him. Really I am. Calling people a #$%%^^^ over the internet is so brave. Hell you should be given a freakin MOH for that courage.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  53. The lefties are going to absolutely hate it when they read Bill Clinton’s quotes supporting McCain’s actions as being done in good faith and not to duck a debate. He correctly points out that it was McCain who was the one who requested a larger rather fewer number of debates. Obama was the one doing the ducking.

    Life sucks when the last Democratic President undermines your talking point.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  54. Not that I don’t “love” me some irrational trolls and their non sequitor arguments, but getting back on topic a bit:

    I had my reservations about whether McCain’s move would work politically, but by agreeing to fly into Washington shortly after McCain did, and shortly after disparaging his initial decision to do so pretty much locks this in as a political win for McCain. McCain may or may not salvage a deal, and that may or may not be a good thing, but he comes out of this looking like a leader, whereas Obama looks like a directionless slacker.

    Sean P (e57269)

  55. Eric – Is it a good thing that my name is included in that list?

    Dmac – Trying to have an honest discussion with the likes of timmah is practically impossible. Even when he is trying to be civil, the mendoucheity lies simmering below the suface.

    jharpy – Coward? Coward?! Really?

    JD (41e64f)

  56. #30
    lovie – Please direct me to where I have lied.
    Lets start with you calling me a “Troll”. Besides I did not say you tell lies JD. I said “when you start telling the truth” About being non partisan and calling a spade a spade.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  57. Mr. Pink, I could start with people suggesting other people f*ck a swordfish, but I’m pretty sure you would receive that same suggestion at far-left blogs too.

    Just poke around and, when you find yourself hanging with the Free Republic crowd, then you can be pretty sure you’re out there.

    Oh, and dmac, placing the Politico on the left is hysterical. And, kaus, well, he’s a conservative, although I’m sure Slate likes your traffic.

    timb (a83d56)

  58. Here is the video of Sheiffer’s account. Someone else noted that Bill Clinton has supported McCain so I guess Obama and his trolls are making it up as they go along. What it looks like to me is that McCain got a request from Paulson and made a gesture to include Obama as a bipartisan thing. Obama, who has been running for president since 1994, saw nothing important about the national financial system and continued memorizing his speeches for the debate.

    I’m looking forward to the debates and hate to wait, especially for the Palin-Biden extravaganza, but I guess some things are more important.

    By the way, one of Obama’s earmarks from the state legislature may be coming back to bite him.

    NEWS
    Obama’s $100K Englewood garden grant being probed

    Obama grant being probed
    $100,000 DEAL | State to charity: What happened to garden money, other cash?

    September 25, 2008

    BY CHRIS FUSCO AND DAVE MCKINNEY

    A group headed by Kenny B. Smith was awarded a state grant by then-state Sen. Barack Obama to create a botanic garden in Englewood. Plans now call for the city to take back the garden site because the project never happened. Attorney General Lisa Madigan is investigating.
    (Keith Hale/Sun-Times/AP)

    RELATED STORIES
    Video: Grant for a garden never built Exclusive: Obama’s $100K (unbuilt )garden Special section: Barack Obama More in Watchdogs

    A $100,000 state grant for a botanic garden in Englewood that then-state Sen. Barack Obama awarded in 2001 to a group headed by a onetime campaign volunteer is now under investigation by the Illinois attorney general amid new questions, prompted by Chicago Sun-Times reports, about whether the money might have been misspent.

    The garden was never built. And now state records obtained by the Sun-Times show $65,000 of the grant money went to the wife of Kenny B. Smith, the Obama 2000 congressional campaign volunteer who heads the Chicago Better Housing Association, which was in charge of the project for the blighted South Side neighborhood.

    Smith wrote another $20,000 in grant-related checks to K.D. Contractors, a construction company that his wife, Karen D. Smith, created five months after work on the garden was supposed to have begun, records show. K.D. is no longer in business.

    Whoops!

    Mike K (2cf494)

  59. This – a stunt, McCain has no understanding of economicsComment by rawdawgbuffalo — 9/25/2008 @ 5:12 am

    This comment is precisely why McCain must be in Washington today. Just as The Surge put truth to the lie that Al Qaeda was a minor actor in the violence in Iraq, McCain can help to correct the false impression concerning McCain’s knowledge of economics conveyed by rawdog and his fellow travelers.

    Terry Gain (aab754)

  60. JD, you have it clear that you do not want my input on your “comments.” Notice how I don’t address you or respond to you (for the last two days no less). Is it so much to ask for the same respect from you?

    timb (a83d56)

  61. Hey, Terry, I don’t want to rain on your parade or John McCain’s flight back to SAVE AMERICA, but yhe line about not knowing that much about the economy is McCain’s self-description.

    Besides you are looking to a minority member of the Senate to somehow save an economy he just said less than 10 days was “strong.”

    My major point here is not that McCain cannot help (I doubt he can help), but that the “false impressions” regarding John are John’s statements.

    timb (a83d56)

  62. “jharpy – Coward? Coward?! Really?”

    If you can come up with a better word I’m game.

    But what do you call someone who quits in the middle of some rough going and hides behind excuses?

    While at the same time doesn’t even take the time to read and study the proposal.

    Then doesn’t even follow through with his pledge to suspend his campaign and instead goes to New York.

    I think coward is a pretty accurate word.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  63. Here’s the clip of Clinton on Good Morning America today.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  64. If you were honest, or not a douchenozzle, I would love to have a discussion with you. Why don’t you put up some more personal information about me? Disparage my reputation a little more? You choose to come to places where I choose to spend time, and then expect me to show you some kind of respect when your past history suggests you are not worthy of my respect? You have stones, I will give you that …

    Lovie

    when you start telling the truth”

    Call me silly, but this redneck rube thinks that phrasing suggests that in order to start telling the truth, one must be currently not telling the truth.

    JD (41e64f)

  65. “While at the same time doesn’t even take the time to read and study the proposal.”

    harpie – Is this sort of all those Democrats who didn’t take the time to read the background material before voting on the AUMF for the Iraq War and then complained they were misled, or do you think a three page document can’t be adequately summaraized by an aide?

    Do you have an actual meaningful point?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  66. And in addition to being a coward I’d like to add that McCain is an incredible phony too.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_09/014878.php

    MCCAIN BEHIND ON HIS READING…. On Sunday, Sept. 14, the news was downright frightening — Lehman Bros. would file for bankruptcy, Merrill Lynch would be bought on deep discount, and AIG was in very deep trouble. On Monday, Sept. 15, the markets tanked and the crisis gripped Wall Street. On Friday, Sept. 19, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson unveiled a $700 billion bailout proposal.

    And on Tuesday, Sept. 22, John McCain couldn’t commit to the proposal, because he hadn’t read it. Seriously.

    I’d heard something about this yesterday, but watching the video helps drive the point home. Asked by the NBC affiliate in Cleveland about whether he was prepared to support Paulson’s plan, McCain said, “I have not had a chance to see it in writing. I have to examine it.”

    We are, just to clarify, talking about a three-page document. It would have taken McCain a few minutes to read. But despite the seriousness of the situation, McCain hadn’t bothered.

    Taking this one step further, on Tuesday, Sept. 22, McCain hadn’t read the Paulson plan, but on Thursday, Sept. 24, McCain announced that he’s dropping everything to work on a bailout plan on the Hill.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  67. jharpy – What has McCain quit? You are increasingly making folks like timmah seem like rational folks. How do you know that he has not read it, or has not studied it? Your fevered hysteria seems to be getting worse, harpy.

    JD (41e64f)

  68. “harpie – Is this sort of all those Democrats who didn’t take the time to read the background material before voting on the AUMF for the Iraq War”

    Yeah, pretty much the same.

    And look where it led us.

    And for the record, two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Which one of those Democrats who didn’t bother to read the AUMF bill is running for President.

    Good God. Is that all you’ve got? The Democrats did it too.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  69. Aggressively ignorant or willfully obtuse? jharpy screeches, you decide.

    JD (41e64f)

  70. harpy – daleyrocks was mocking you.

    JD (41e64f)

  71. “My major point here is not that McCain cannot help (I doubt he can help), but that the “false impressions” regarding John are John’s statements.”

    timmah – The facy remains that Reid and Pelosi have leaked that they will not allow bills to come to the floor without a commitment of a certain level of Republican support. Hank Paulson has polled the Republicans and found that the Republicans will not get behind it without McCain, hence his call to McCain yesterday. It’s simple. His presence is needed and was requested. Obama’s presence is not needed because he is a junior Senator who knows nothing about the subject and his presence was not requested. He is not even a leader of his party.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  72. Hank Paulson has polled the Republicans and found that the Republicans will not get behind it without McCain, hence his call to McCain yesterday. It’s simple. His presence is needed and was requested. Obama’s presence is not needed because he is a junior Senator who knows nothing about the subject and his presence was not requested. He is not even a leader of his party.

    Well said, daleyrocks, well said indeed. Heh.

    JD (41e64f)

  73. jharpy – What has McCain quit?

    For the time being he has quit campaigning and he’s trying to quit the debate.

    “How do you know that he has not read it, or has not studied it?”

    Because he said so. Is that good enough?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnsNOEgp-_o&eurl=http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_09/014878.php

    jharp (f4bed7)

  74. Timb you are asserting that anyone on FreeRepublic is “far-right”. My question was what issues, actual policy positions or ideas, makes someone “far-right” in your opinion? Once again I reiterate I am not trolling.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  75. “harpy – daleyrocks was mocking you.”

    JD – The dumb shit is too dumb to realize when I do it too. That’s sort of what makes it fun, but I hate to pick on the handicapped.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  76. Harpy – What exact date and time did Obama read the plan. We need to know for comparison.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  77. timmah – The facy remains that Reid and Pelosi have leaked that they will not allow bills to come to the floor without a commitment of a certain level of Republican support. Hank Paulson has polled the Republicans and found that the Republicans will not get behind it without McCain, hence his call to McCain yesterday. It’s simple. His presence is needed and was requested. Obama’s presence is not needed because he is a junior Senator who knows nothing about the subject and his presence was not requested. He is not even a leader of his party

    Daley, you sweet little thing, I addressed this upthread. Until Mr. Paulson can confirm he contacted Senator Graham, then all we have is Judy miller, errrr Bob Schieffer reporting that a member of the Senate minority is supposed to roll the Republican caucus in the HOUSE. Get me a link to where Paulson confirms Lindsay’s story and I will sign off on JOHN THE SUPER-HERO.

    timb (a83d56)

  78. “harpy – daleyrocks was mocking you.”

    “JD – The dumb shit is too dumb to realize when I do it too. That’s sort of what makes it fun, but I hate to pick on the handicapped.”

    Very typical eh jharp?

    They hate receiving a mocking, but love to dish it at us.

    Oiram (983921)

  79. Have you forsaken your first internet daddy, JD? I’m not allowed there (under my name), so I come here.

    Patterico seems much more rational in comparison, but did you forget this piece of obsequious stupidity:

    In short, your blog has made me a better person…Jeff – you have a brilliant mind, made even more impressive with your ability to put those thoughts into written form, in a manner which makes sense to people that do not share your academic credentials.

    How can you abandon your hero, JD? You leave all the substance-less, childish name-calling to B Moe and Pablo! Is this typical of you of JD? Jeff is responsible for your “awakening” and you abandon him in his time of need?

    Nothing worse than feckless hostility, JD. All the hate, all the demands for evidence (despite the fact that you will not follow a link), all the rooting for your team and you don’t even mean it?

    How sad…at your core is just emptiness and self-loathing. It must eat at you, which is why you just have to strike out at the others. Hurt them, so they can feel something?

    That’s so sad. I always thought you were something, JD. Guess not.

    So, here’s the deal. I can produce a million of your little attacks and ridicule you until you cry or you can feel free to stop following me around and commenting every time I leave a comment.

    I’ll allow you one last froth, but I will assume you will leave my comments alone and I leave yours alone, and we have a deal.

    timb (a83d56)

  80. Timb is my question going to get answered or should I just stop bothering?

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  81. By the way nice pull with the swordfish quote. I heard I made an appearance at Vanity Fair’s or Salon’s website with that one.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  82. Mr. pink, I cannot do your homework for you. if you want to see the difference between far right and right, go look at Jeff’s rants and then Rick Moran’s rants or the Fox News website. Notice less interests in shooting the leftists?

    That’s A major difference.

    timb (a83d56)

  83. So basically you won’t answer. Ok carry on insulting people in here it seems the new rage nowdays on the internet.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  84. He said so is in the past tense harpy.

    Do you not understand the difference between suspend and quit? The difference between reschedule and quit?

    I suppose Baracky quit the series of townhall debates he previously agreed to. Baracky quit on his promise to utilize public funding of his campaign. The list of positions that Baracky has quit on is practically endless.

    JD (41e64f)

  85. I don’t mind the mocking at all. I notice it always takes place when they are caught in an indefensible position.

    Which is often and makes me feel good.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  86. Probably is a good idea for McCain to reset the narrative. When this gets out Katie bar the door.

    What a friggin retard.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/25/palin-bailout-healthcare/

    jharp (f4bed7)

  87. Whatever happened to being able to drink a beer with someone you disagreed with? All this crap has just been hate for the last 6 years. Hell you got people doing skits on how Palin’s children are committing incest and Obama is a muslim manchurian candidate who is going to have us bowing toward meccah. You have somewhere up thread someone is calling McCain a coward and a p#%##. Yes that is real constructive and informative commentary.

    Mr. Pink (eae12c)

  88. timmah – No deal. You do not enter the agreement in good faith.

    See folks … timmah has a thing for me. As he notes, he managed to get himself banned at proteinwisdom, no small feat. He will do the same thing here. He cannot help it.

    JD (41e64f)

  89. Wrong harpy. Dead wrong. We mock you because that is all you are worth. Mock and scorn.

    JD (41e64f)

  90. Why should there be a bailout?

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  91. “Why should there be a bailout?”

    As near as I can figure because George Bush says so. And it has to done right away and it will pay for itself. And it’ll benefit the middle class who are the ones to pay for it.

    Hmmmm. Seems I’ve heard those lines somewhere before.

    George Bush wouldn’t lie? Would he?

    jharp (f4bed7)

  92. So, harpy, make the case against it.

    JD (41e64f)

  93. John McCain stood up for America and showed some real concern for an important issue that can’t wait, the debate is something which can wait. It’s a no-brainer.

    McCain’s decision to address the economic crisis is the result of maturity and perspective, he did the right thing, while Obama got caught with his nose in the air and his pants down again.

    Ropelight (f4b89a)

  94. Did you really tell him to go fuck a swordfish? 🙂

    Icy Truth (3a3033)

  95. I beg your pardon.

    According to my knowledge of logic the burden of proving the case would be on you.

    So go for it.

    I’m a free market guy. To hell with all of em. They gambled and lost.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  96. “John McCain stood up for America and showed some real concern for an important issue that can’t wait, the debate is something which can wait. It’s a no-brainer.”

    So them Mr. Roper,

    It was so important that as of Tuesday, Sept. 22, McCain hadn’t read the Paulson plan. Then Weds. he needs to drop everything.

    There’s a commander in chief who does his homework and is well prepared.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  97. jharpy – Your relationship to logic is like my relationship to Michael Moore – nonexistent.

    On one hand you argue that this is the greatest economic threat EVAH and on the other, you argue that it is a smoke screen engineered by Bush, the dummerest President EVAH!

    It is not at all possible that he could have read a 3-page document over the course of a day, huh, harpy?

    JD (41e64f)

  98. Those three pages take like forever harpy. When did Obama read it. We need dates and times. Get them now!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  99. timmah – Your last defense is I’m gonna stamp my widdle feet until you get me an actual link to Paulson because I refuse to believe an in the tank TV host? Seriously?

    Very weak.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  100. JD – harpy can easily take any side of an argument. All you have to do is stake out one side and he will automatically take the other. He will contradict himself from one comment to the next. Intellectual consistency is an unknown concept for harpy. Scratch that, intellect is an unknown concept to harpy.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  101. daleyrocks – Baracky does not need to read it, much less understand it. Hell, Dirty Harry does not even need him back there. He is not even considered a leader amongst the Dems in the Senate.

    JD (41e64f)

  102. Wingnuts,

    Please answer me this.

    Last Monday McCain said our economy was fundamentally sound. By Friday President Bush said if the taxpayers don’t cough $700 billion to bail out the richest Americans our economy would collapse almost immediately.

    How can that be? Doesn’t that make you even the slightest bit suspicious? Don’t you think we need to question the man who lied us into an unnecessary $1 trillion dollar war.

    And McCain doesn’t even bother to read the proposed bailout plan until the next Tues?

    I said it once and I’ll say it again. You’re all suckers and deserve to be parted with your money.

    Me, I’m fighting it all the way.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  103. “On one hand you argue that this is the greatest economic threat EVAH”

    Of, and I still do believe we face the greatest economic challenge since the 30’s.

    It’s just that I think handing over $700 billion taxpayer dollars to the richest Americans and the ones that stole all of the money in the first place is the wrong solution.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  104. Harpy = You’ve been challenged on this before. Put up or shut up. Detail your imaginary lies so that we can laugh at them:

    “Don’t you think we need to question the man who lied us into an unnecessary $1 trillion dollar war.”

    We mock you because of your indefensible statements like the above about lies.

    What part of the word fundamental do you have trouble understanding harpie. If liquidity is restored to the financial markets, what part of the economy is fundamentally unsound?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  105. Last Monday McCain said our economy was fundamentally sound.

    Your paraphrase grossly distorts what Sen. McCain has said. Shocka.

    President Bush said if the taxpayers don’t cough $700 billion to bail out the richest Americans

    He said no such thing.

    Don’t you think we need to question the man who lied us into an unnecessary $1 trillion dollar war.

    Evidence of this assertion, please?

    Evidence that anyone stole money?

    You are like a fuckin’ fountain of unsupported assertions.

    JD (41e64f)

  106. Keep those insults coming. It only shows you’ve got nothing.

    You ever figure out how much $700 billion is per taxpayer?

    Please take the time to do so. And add that amount to your list of debts because we will be paying for it.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  107. I do know this, only the actual taxpayers are getting stuck with this one. Them, and the people that actually pay their mortgages.

    JD (41e64f)

  108. You are like a fuckin’ fountain of unsupported assertions.

    Comment by JD — 9/25/2008 @ 11:39 am

    Thank you, JD.

    Just as I thought. You’ve got nothing. I appreciate you confirming it.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  109. Daley, please just consider how you would act if Obama had said “The fundamentals of our economy are strong” and then tried to cancel a debate to put more time into studying the economic bail out……. all this after being behind in the polls.

    Please……. just try to consider the opposite side of the coin for a sec.

    Oiram (983921)

  110. Last Monday McCain said our economy was fundamentally sound.

    Your paraphrase grossly distorts what Sen. McCain has said. Shocka.

    President Bush said if the taxpayers don’t cough $700 billion to bail out the richest Americans

    He said no such thing.

    Don’t you think we need to question the man who lied us into an unnecessary $1 trillion dollar war.

    Evidence of this assertion, please?

    Evidence that anyone stole money?

    JD (41e64f)

  111. please just consider how you would act if Obama had said “The fundamentals of our economy are strong” and then tried to cancel a debate to put more time into studying the economic bail out……. all this after being behind in the polls.

    As I pointed out to harpy, that is a gross distortion of the entirety of what Sen. McCain said. Plus, he is not trying to cancel the debate, he requested that it be rescheduled so this legislation can be worked on now, before the markets open on Monday.

    That you tie this to close polling says more about the way you think than it does the actions of Sen. McCain.

    JD (41e64f)

  112. JD,

    You know dam well what McCain said and I portrayed it accurately.

    And you know dam well what Bush said and I portrayed it accurately. (minus the richest Americans part though it is well known that is where the money is going)

    And stole the money? I guess we’ll find out.

    How much did Anthony Mozilo at Countrywide (the worst offender of the worthless mortgage market) walk away with?

    Answer. $140 million

    How much did the shareholders lose?

    Answer. 90% of their investment. In the billions.

    And now they want the taxpayers to bail them out.

    That’s GOP trickle down economics for ya.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  113. The opposite side of the coin is “tails”, which makes me think of ‘pin the tail on the donkey’, which makes me think of a Dem, and an ass.

    Icy Truth (3a3033)

  114. Oiram – jharp has demonstrated he does not understand the concept of a run on the bank, a liquidity squeeze, a credit crisis, or any of the other terms being tossed around to describe the current crisis. jharp does not post here in good faith. He merely comments here to distract. Sometimes emotions get the best of everyone, but dishonesty I think should be a problem everyone acknowledges.

    Looking at an outlier poll from the beginning of the week when yesterday’s Gallup and Rasmussen polls show McCain basically holding steady is just basic dishonesty from jharp as most of us here expect.

    Oiram – Is bringing up debunked myths about the beginning of the Iraq War an honest comment? Do you think jharp is dishonest or merely ignorant or both?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  115. “Don’t you think we need to question the man who lied us into an unnecessary $1 trillion dollar war.”

    Oh, and you know dam well we were lied into the trillion dollar war.

    Nigerian yellowcake anyone? WMD’s?

    I hope you are proud of yourself supporting the most corrupt, morally bankrupt, lying, and incompetent political party in our lifetime.

    Hold your head high and brag to your children how you supported the squandering of almost $ 5 trillion dollars with nothing to show for it except 4,200 dead soldiers and 40,000 maimed and wounded.

    And $4 a gallon gas.

    Heck. Of. A. Job. GOPers!

    jharp (f4bed7)

  116. How much did Anthony Mozilo at Countrywide (the worst offender of the worthless mortgage market) walk away with?
    Answer. $140 million
    How much did the shareholders lose?
    Answer. 90% of their investment. In the billions.

    — How much was Chris Dodd’s cut?

    Oh, I forgot. He took it out on the ‘Rezko plan’.

    Icy Truth (3a3033)

  117. There are an awful lot of childish comments here today. Most of it originates from the trolls but feeding trolls is a waste of time. They exist to see someone recognize their existence. I have seen trolls ruin a site and would suggest that those of us who are trying to understand the crisis avoid egging them on. I see no evidence that harp or the others are posting in good faith.

    Oiram is a bit different and seems to be willing to have a dialogue. To answer that question, I have not seen Obama produce any specifics on anything but I have seen a concerted effort by the Democrats to talk down the economy. They accused Bush of doing this in 2000 but there had been a bubble collapse then. This trash talking began well before the financial meltdown although the real estate bubble had popped about two years ago.

    Dodd and Frank are the worst possible people to advocate any bailout since they are the architects of the crisis. I don’t know that this was a good move by McCain but it seems he was asked to do this by Paulson because Republicans don’t trust the Democrats in the two committees.

    I do believe that Bush shares some responsibility by keeping interest rates so low and not defending the dollar. A rise in interest rates two years ago might have kept a lot of this from happening or, at least, started it before more money had been wasted.

    McCain has always been opposed to corporate welfare in general and the Fannie-Freddie boondoggle in particular. That is why he has credibility that others don’t. The stuff about reading the Paulson plan is silly but it’s coming from trolls. What counts is what McCain’s economic advisors, one of whom has been predicting this for 25 years, tells him is useful.

    Mike K (6d4fc3)

  118. Hold your head high and brag to your children how you supported the squandering of almost $ 5 trillion dollars with nothing to show for it except 4,200 dead soldiers and 40,000 maimed and wounded.

    — Isn’t it sad how when pressed the guy who can’t spell “damn” retreats into the same old peacenik isolationist talking points?

    Icy Truth (3a3033)

  119. harpy – We need specifics on the lies, not generalizations.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  120. And now they want the taxpayers to bail them out. That’s GOP trickle down economics for ya.

    Catch up with the news, Democrats control Congress and the purse strings.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  121. “Is bringing up debunked myths about the beginning of the Iraq War an honest comment?”

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/25/2008 @ 12:01 pm

    Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s comment on March 30, 2003: “We know where they [WMD] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.”

    Just curious daleyrocks. Is this one of the debunked myths on which you opine?

    jharp (f4bed7)

  122. Oiram is a bit different and seems to be willing to have a dialogue.
    — He used to! Not so much lately.

    Icy Truth (3a3033)

  123. harpy – We need specifics on the lies, not generalizations.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/25/2008 @ 12:06 pm

    OK. How about this one?

    Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s comment on March 30, 2003: “We know where they [WMD] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.”

    jharp (f4bed7)

  124. harpy still stuck on stupid and proud of it!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  125. Catch up with the news, Democrats control Congress and the purse strings.

    Comment by Perfect Sense — 9/25/2008 @ 12:08 pm

    It is you who needs to catch up on the news. Did you not listen to the President last night?

    Did you not hear of McCain suspending his campaign to get a bill passes?

    This is an issue that was dumped on the democrats by the most inept republican administration in U.S. history.

    And I’ll admit the dems are in a pickle. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  126. harpy – Point me to an investigating commission that found lies on Bush’s part as you asserted please. I’m not interested in your conclusions.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  127. harpy still stuck on stupid and proud of it!

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/25/2008 @ 12:11 pm

    Thank you, daleyrocks, for again showing you’ve got nothing.

    I figured you wouldn’t be able to respond with anything but an insult.

    Pretty tough to defend that one, huh?

    jharp (f4bed7)

  128. This is an issue that was dumped on the democrats…

    Catch up with the news. This mess was created by Democrats in Congress and Democrats who ran Freddie Mac. Follow the money and the money was going into Dodd’s and Zerobama’s pockets.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  129. I’ve gotta get going.

    I hope you all enjoy the fruits of the $5 trillion in debt W and the GOP has left you all with.

    You all well deserve it.

    See you around.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  130. JD,

    You know dam well what McCain said and I portrayed it accurately.

    And you know dam well what Bush said and I portrayed it accurately. (minus the richest Americans part though it is well known that is where the money is going)

    And stole the money? I guess we’ll find out.

    I do not admit it. In fact, I refute it. You bastardized McCain’s words almost beyond recognition.

    As I suspected 😉 bluster and assertion is all you bring to the table.

    Oh, and you know dam well we were lied into the trillion dollar war.

    I know no such thing.

    JD (41e64f)

  131. Now that is funny:

    “….I figured you wouldn’t be able to respond with anything but an insult….

    Projection is a wonderful thing!

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  132. He won’t respond to me directly because I called him a name once, but he started putting the “n” in “damn”, so I know he’s listening.

    Icy Truth (5a5985)

  133. It is a wonder how people like harp aren’t found in the gutter beaten beyond all recognition.

    PCD (1df2b5)

  134. Is bringing up debunked myths about the beginning of the Iraq War an honest comment? Do you think jharp is dishonest or merely ignorant or both?

    Both, I suspect.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  135. Dodd and Frank are the worst possible people to advocate any bailout since they are the architects of the crisis.

    On a sidenote, its always surprising, and pathetic that pols who should be crawling under a rock somewhere because everyone knows they have dirty hands yet instead put themselves front and center….it like their conscience disappears and they are forever swathed in arrogant smugness.

    Dana (b4a26c)

  136. I’m a free market guy

    That’s what he told the officer while being handcuffed for boosting DVD’s at his local Target.

    Darleen (187edc)

  137. it like their conscience disappears and they are forever swathed in arrogant smugness

    They are just awaiting their fellow travelers to be flushing the incriminating articles down the old memory hole. Uncle Barry and his new soviet of Democrat apparatchik in academia (ala Ayers and Alinsky), press (MSM), labor (with card check power) and politics and armed with the Fairness Doctrine will soon scourge those areas in need of revisionist history and re-education.

    There will be unity because no dissent will be allowed.

    Comrades!

    Darleen (187edc)

  138. It is a wonder how people like harp aren’t found in the gutter beaten beyond all recognition

    Somehow, I have a feeling that this has already happened. Harpy sounds an awful lot like either a Senior shut – in, or a teenager afraid of the world at large.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  139. Mccain is using the American people, and Bush is helping him. We all knew Bush was going to pull something by the end of his term to help Mccain, this is it!

    Daniel (910f86)

  140. We all knew Bush was going to pull something by the end of his term to help Mccain

    That wiley GW, starting the ball rolling back in 2003 by making sure his effort to reform the GSE was defeated…then McCain doing the same thing in 2005!

    Wow, ChimpyMcHalliburtonZionist plotting the takedown of the subprime market in between planning 9/11 and whipping up Katrina.

    GW = the Unified Field Theory of Vast ReichWinger Conspiracies!!!!111!!1Eleventy!!1!

    Darleen (187edc)

  141. #64
    Call me silly, but this redneck rube thinks that phrasing suggests that in order to start telling the truth, one must be currently not telling the truth.</i
    I really do call you “silly” JD. There is a big difference between knowing the truth and not saying it and telling a lie. In the first case, ones partisanship won’t allow him to state what he knows as the truth. In that case he begins to befog the truth by trying to distract from it. Telling a lie on the other hand, is wilfully saying something one knows to be untruth.
    My point is that you need to say the truth even when it hurts your chosen candidate. (And I don’t want to get into a fight with you JD, so don’t push it!)

    #64
    Call me silly, but this redneck rube thinks that phrasing suggests that in order to start telling the truth, one must be currently not telling the truth.</i
    I really do call you “silly” JD. There is a big difference between knowing the truth and not saying it and telling a lie. In the first case, ones partisanship won’t allow him to state what he knows as the truth. In that case he begins to befog the truth by trying to distract from it. Telling a lie on the other hand, is wilfully saying something one knows to be untruth.
    My point is that you need to say the truth even when it hurts your chosen candidate. (And I don’t want to get into a fight with you JD, so don’t push it!)

    love2008 (1b037c)

  142. It is a wonder how people like harp aren’t found in the gutter beaten beyond all recognition

    He would never dare say this stuff to anybody’s face.

    As for having nothing, jharp still has not answered my questions to him about why his candidate, Barack Obama, is not questioning the bailout. He completely fails to address why Obama isn’t bringing up the relevant points and handing himself the election in the process.

    And then he’s ‘gotta go’.

    I love the lefties – all firebombs and tennis shoes.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  143. Thanks for the compliment Mike D.

    ICY, your right I used to be more willing to have dialogue, but I’m just too busy lately.

    Work, and an upcoming wedding 🙂 are taking up too much of my time. (both are actually a good thing)

    I am however reading a few comments here and there.

    Is anyone going to address jharp’s #121 comment regarding Rumsfeld’s comments? And the thread itself.

    Because of work I’ve been working on this comment for about 15 minutes now, sorry if someone replied to jharp #121.

    Oiram (983921)

  144. Oiram – I didn’t bother focusing on the comments jharp noted because they were made after the Iraq War started. jharp said we were lied into the Iraq War. His comment, his parameters, so I don’t give a shit what was said about conditions in Iraq after the was started. So he has still not defended his assertion.

    Do you think he is being dishonest or is just ignorant was the question I asked of you Oiram? Consider the other side for a change as you requested of me.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  145. #144
    Watch that temper, Daley. 🙂 I know how it feels to know your guy might lose. Here, take a pill and lie down and sleep. Thaaaat’s it…..

    love2008 (1b037c)

  146. Oiram –

    Work, and an upcoming wedding are taking up too much of my time
    — Not yours, is it? RUN, FOOL!!!

    [Readers can decide for themselves if I’m speaking of him or the prospective bride.]

    Icy Truth (4935fe)

  147. love ’08, everyone’s well aware it’s a tight race. That’s because your candidate is favored by the world, and not because he’s a great guy or a tough leader. The opposite: because he doesn’t have this country’s best interests at heart. Same thing with Kerry in ’04. Bush was less liked in Europe b/c he put America first. You see the down side to having friends who aren’t really friends?

    ACORN scares me. The potential of padding the voter box and stuffing in fake votes may bring you sweet victory, but those nasty Chicago politics are for POWER not for HOPE and CHANGE.

    So tight race… maybe. (Okay, except to Obama voters.) It’s pretty funny how McCain sets the agenda, calls the shots… Barry makes some wretched proclamation, tries to be Eddie Haskell, Do-Gooder at Large… but then what happens? The next morning, Michelle’s packing his tighty whities and he’s off to the Capitol. Whatever McCain says goes, I guess. Now that’s presidential.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  148. Icy, don’t make neo-con presumptions! His sweetheart may very well be the groom.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  149. #147
    Point of correction VN. The polls are not “tight”. McCain is sliding on the polls daily because the economy is the number issue among voters and Obama and the Dems win on that score. And there is nothing wrong with a presidential candidate who is liked by people of other countries. The world wants change and only the US can provide that change. That is where Barack Obama comes in.
    And since you are in touch with McCain, tell him not to skip that debate. We have waited months for it. Now is not the time to run scared.
    And it is disingenuous of you to say that only the Reps have the interest of the country at heart. Especially considering that the mess we are in now is largely as a result of failed policies pursued by this Republican administration. So drop that patriotic line. That card won’t win this time around. It’s the economy, stupid! (I know you are not stupid.)

    love2008 (1b037c)

  150. love2008, the world wants change? What kind of stupid drivel is that?

    Ah, right. Your typical drivel. My mistake.

    By the way, your claim that the “mess we are in” is the fault of policies pursued by the Bush administration is another complete fabrication of yours. The Bush administration did not ‘pursue’ any of the lending policies of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Those were loosened up by Bill Clinton in ’94.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  151. #150
    When an economy succeeds under a particular leader, who gets the credit? That’s right, the leader. Now when things get this bad, who takes the blame? That’s right again kido, the leader. Reagan has been credited for ending the cold war with Russia and Bill Clinton has been praised for leaving the economy in great prosperity. Why can’t Bush and the Republican party take ownership of the way things are now? Well if you don’t think so a large majority of Americans think so too and they are turning to the Democrats to get them out of it. That is the simple law of leadership. If it goes well, praise the leader. If it goes bad, fire the leader! That we shall do by firing the party that put him there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it down, SPQR!

    love2008 (1b037c)

  152. love2008, so you are already abandoning your specific charge that Bush’s “pursuit” of specific policies were at fault and now fall back to BS about timing.

    That’s about what we’ve come to expect from you. Nothing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  153. Mccain is using the American people, and Bush is helping him.

    “And the truthiness of what we all know is that Boosh is in bed with Mccccccainanaiclain.” There, is that what you were trying to say here? Jeebus.

    If it goes bad, fire the leader!

    Lovey is now channeling the character of Frankenstein, in this instance played by Phil Hartman, during his SNL days:

    Norm MacDonald (on Weekend Update): “There’s been a rash of forest fires across the Western States this summer, leading to hundreds of citizens becoming homeless as a result of the raging infernos. Here with a commentary is Frankenstein”:

    Frankenstein: “Arrrgh! Fire baaaaad!”

    Dmac (e639cc)

  154. #152
    Talking to you is a complete waste of time. Now run along twerp!

    love2008 (1b037c)

  155. “Arrrgh! SPQR baaaad!”

    Dmac (e639cc)

  156. Dmac, ROFL. love2008 seems awful embarrassed at the exposure of his incomprehension of his own vapid talking points.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  157. Most Brit’s knowledge of America consists of watching reruns of Dallas and Hee Haw.

    Dmac (e639cc)

  158. Arrrgh! Clingy Guns Religiony baaaad!

    Dmac (e639cc)

  159. And there is nothing wrong with a presidential candidate who is liked by people of other countries.

    You misconstrued what it means: Being liked around the world. I don’t mean it in a Princess Diana popularity poll way. I’m talking about anti-American countries who clearly support a far left candidate. You really need to get on board with that logic, because we kind of all agree it’s nice to be liked. It’s not nice to be used and undermined. Russia and Venezuela, No. Korea, Cuba, China. They’re probably funneling $ to the Barry team as we speak. Yeah, I know. The guy could throw grandma under the bus and you’d still buy his lies.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  160. Hey lovey – blow me, and I say that with only the kindest personal feeling behind it.

    I see we still have not heard back from the human talking point or Oiram.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  161. One has to wonder where we might be with this financial mess had the dems not pushed for political correctness and affirmative action in borrowing for homes. It sure makes a hell of a lot of sense to count unmeployment benefits and welfare as income for determining ability to pay a mortgage.
    Seems there’s usually a tug of war between greed and fear. I’d like the assclowns who made bad decisions, both lenders and borrowers to pay for their mistakes. In my own little corner of the world I thought it was rather insane for neighbors to be obtaining 110% of the home value loans. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way and short sales of homes to avoid foreclosure is decimating prices. The only good I see is that now some people previously shut out of ownership can get in plus some of the property taxes are being adjusted downwards. Still, it rather makes one doubt about owning diminishing assets with no bottom in sight when you’ve already seen your property drop by 60% in three years.
    Ok, so it is a regional blood-letting. I’m told by my credit union based in Harrisburg, Pa. that they are not having any woes in Central Pa. where most of their home mortgage loans are held. But then again, I don’t suppose home prices had quadrupled in about seven years, as in my neighborhood.
    The condescending, self-aggrandizing trolls and mobys lately are becoming quite irritating. Where do they get their numbers and “facts” from other than the fever swamp and Obama propaganda machine. In a way I have to wonder if, however undeserving and incompetent he is, the country might need to really see what bullshit an Obama presidency will wreak with the left controlling the legislative and executive power. Not so many people still around who endured the Great Depression and liberal saint FDR’s many questionable edicts. Perhaps more are cognizant of LBJ’s so-called Great Society welfare state failures. Obama doesn’t brag about how he pissed 150 million bucks down the toilet with the Annenberg Challenge. Will the compliant media continue to kiss his ass if and when he is in power and blame any problems on the VRWC and racism? Lord help and save our souls and pocketbooks. Gotta love that the Gaza strip mutants are calling potential voters here in America. King of the world indeed.
    I THINC IM GUNNA VOTE FOUR OBAMA CUZ THEMS HOLLYWOOD PEOPLE LIKE HIM (seen on bumper stickers). obamatard asswipes of the world and on Patterico Pontification unite.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  162. 4 years of Obama would be a hell of a thing. And more than just the unqualified/ inexperienced thing. The guy is a racist, he hangs with racists, he married a racist, he’s done zillion- dollar deals with bomber Wm. Ayers. They lost or stole millions in non-profit funds. He racked up about $900 million in earmarks. He’s truly an example of greed and hypocrisy, not to mention a citizen of the world.

    From Infanticide to Israel, Barry’s your man.

    I am curious if his girls will be required to leave private school and mingle with the riff-raff. That would be racist.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  163. VN, You’re saying that he might be the bride? I didn’t know that he lived in California.

    Icy Truth (2c3adb)

  164. Vermont Neighbor, not to mention Obama’s habit of threatening media outlets that dare air others’ criticism of him.

    Shades of a previous Democratic president who put people in prison for opposing his policies.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  165. Let’s close this comment thread with a hypothesis:

    Right wingers here defended the idea that McCain was returning to Washington to help with the bail out. Daleyrocks expressly believed that Hank Paulson him called McCain’s folks and requested him, so John could SAVE THE COUNTRY.

    The libs expressed varying degrees of skepticism about the bail out, some even alleging Bush “lied us into Iraq” and now was lying about this crisis.

    Today’s comments will be the entire opposite. the righties will defend the House Republicans and lefties will be in favor of the bailout so they can attack the House Republicans. And, seemingly, no one will remember that they held the opposite position yesterday, because, damn it, they chose a side and that’s the side they were going to stick to.

    timb (a83d56)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.1552 secs.