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	<title>Comments on: Unmitigated Garbage from FactCheck.org on Obama&#8217;s Second Amendment Record</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-412089</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-412089</guid>
		<description>Does anyone else see that liberals take everything that is immoral, biased, and sometimes just downright evil, and label it with a neutral or friendly term to deceive everyone who doesn&#039;t know enough about it? &quot;FactCheck.org&quot; sounds unbiased and nice. So does &quot;Pro-Choice&quot; and &quot;The Fairness Doctrine&quot;. Even &quot;Gun Control&quot; isn&#039;t as explicit about it&#039;s intentions as it ought to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone else see that liberals take everything that is immoral, biased, and sometimes just downright evil, and label it with a neutral or friendly term to deceive everyone who doesn&#8217;t know enough about it? &#8220;FactCheck.org&#8221; sounds unbiased and nice. So does &#8220;Pro-Choice&#8221; and &#8220;The Fairness Doctrine&#8221;. Even &#8220;Gun Control&#8221; isn&#8217;t as explicit about it&#8217;s intentions as it ought to be.</p>
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		<title>By: djohn</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-410744</link>
		<dc:creator>djohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-410744</guid>
		<description>Did FactCheck.org mention the fact that the &quot;kill him&quot; allegations were false?

Did FactCheck.org mention that Obama knew the allegations were false when he mentioned them in the last debate?

Did anyone in the media outside of Fox mention it?

Didn&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did FactCheck.org mention the fact that the &#8220;kill him&#8221; allegations were false?</p>
<p>Did FactCheck.org mention that Obama knew the allegations were false when he mentioned them in the last debate?</p>
<p>Did anyone in the media outside of Fox mention it?</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Strohmeyer</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-405730</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Strohmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-405730</guid>
		<description>What is so sad is all those that drink the Obama Kool Aid by believing Fack Check.org, George Stephanopolous, or other media hacks.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://american-aquarium.blogspot.com/2008/10/george-stephanopoulos-obama-kool-aid.html&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;George Stephanopolous and the Obama Kool Aid&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is so sad is all those that drink the Obama Kool Aid by believing Fack Check.org, George Stephanopolous, or other media hacks.</p>
<p><a href="http://american-aquarium.blogspot.com/2008/10/george-stephanopoulos-obama-kool-aid.html" title="" rel="nofollow">George Stephanopolous and the Obama Kool Aid</a></p>
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		<title>By: RIGHTeous</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-403002</link>
		<dc:creator>RIGHTeous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-403002</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve also noticed a lot of posts on various websites pointing to Kennedy&#039;s comments to &quot;prove&quot; that the ammendment Obama voted on was intended to ban hunting ammo.  The &quot;quotes&quot; from Kennedy are all from 2004.  The vote on the ammendment was July 29, 2005, 03:46 PM - and the actual language in the bill stated, &quot; a projectile for a center-fire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.&#039;&#039;  So the only way it would affect rifle ammo was if the ammo was more likely to penetrate armor than other ammo in the caliber.  THEREFORE it could not ban all .30-30 as it explicitly states that ONLY ammunition in a given caliber (e.g. .30-30) that acts differently than the baseline of that caliber could be banned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve also noticed a lot of posts on various websites pointing to Kennedy&#8217;s comments to &#8220;prove&#8221; that the ammendment Obama voted on was intended to ban hunting ammo.  The &#8220;quotes&#8221; from Kennedy are all from 2004.  The vote on the ammendment was July 29, 2005, 03:46 PM &#8211; and the actual language in the bill stated, &#8221; a projectile for a center-fire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.&#8221;  So the only way it would affect rifle ammo was if the ammo was more likely to penetrate armor than other ammo in the caliber.  THEREFORE it could not ban all .30-30 as it explicitly states that ONLY ammunition in a given caliber (e.g. .30-30) that acts differently than the baseline of that caliber could be banned.</p>
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		<title>By: RIGHTeous</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-402994</link>
		<dc:creator>RIGHTeous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-402994</guid>
		<description>It seems odd that this article claims that FACTCHECK is unbalanced yet cites the FACTCHECK article itself for some of its counterarguments.  IF FACTCHECK included those counterarguments - then wouldn&#039;t that point to it being balanced? 

Maybe those reading this should  go read the FACTCHECK article directly rather than just reading the “review” of the article…

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_obama.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems odd that this article claims that FACTCHECK is unbalanced yet cites the FACTCHECK article itself for some of its counterarguments.  IF FACTCHECK included those counterarguments &#8211; then wouldn&#8217;t that point to it being balanced? </p>
<p>Maybe those reading this should  go read the FACTCHECK article directly rather than just reading the “review” of the article…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_obama.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_obama.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-398586</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-398586</guid>
		<description>Syntax:

Let&#039;s examine the 1996 questionare.  It&#039;s old, so if Obama were to say &quot;That&#039;s what I used to think, but i&#039;ve changed my position, it would be reasonable to have an opinion that we should ignore the 1995 questionare.

But in fact, Obama lied about the questionare.  He denied ever seeing it.  But then we learned he had written notes on it, which he tried to say weren&#039;t his handwriting but eventually had to admit it was.

But he still claimed the questionare lied about his position.

Let&#039;s take him at his word.  Obama is a politician who admits lying in his campaign materials, in order to agrandize himself with the groups he needs to get votes from.

He admits, no in fact he insists we believe that he lied to the voters in 1996, by falsely representing his position.

Now he SAYS he is pro-gun.  And we are supposed to believe him, why?  Because he told us he would lie to us to get our vote?  Because he never apologized for lying in 1996?  Because he still lies about his position, like saying Heller was constitutional and later saying the Supreme Court was right to find it unconstitutional?  Even though the people who ruled that way were judges he opposed, while the judges he said he&#039;d use as models all voted that it WAS constitutional?

Here&#039;s the deal:  NO statement of what a candidate will do in the future is &quot;fact&quot;, until the future is the past.  So no claim that the candidate is lying about his intentions can be called &quot;false&quot;.  

For example, imagine FactCheck in 1992.  Someone runs an ad saying &quot;Bill Clinton will NOT give a child tax credit when he takes office&quot;.

Factcheck: &quot;This is a lie.  Clinton has said he would do a $500 per child tax credit&quot;.

Except in 1993, weeks after taking office, Clinton said he would NOT do the $500 tax credit.

So, what Factcheck would call a lie would turn out to be the truth.  Now, how can something that ends up being true EVER be called a lie?

If Obama becomes President, in 2012 we can evaluate if anything the NRA said was a &quot;lie&quot;.  If Factcheck wants to argue that the NRA claims are unsupported, they would be wrong but within the bounds of civil discourse.  

But they are not lies.  You can&#039;t lie about what you THINK someone WILL do in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Syntax:</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s examine the 1996 questionare.  It&#8217;s old, so if Obama were to say &#8220;That&#8217;s what I used to think, but i&#8217;ve changed my position, it would be reasonable to have an opinion that we should ignore the 1995 questionare.</p>
<p>But in fact, Obama lied about the questionare.  He denied ever seeing it.  But then we learned he had written notes on it, which he tried to say weren&#8217;t his handwriting but eventually had to admit it was.</p>
<p>But he still claimed the questionare lied about his position.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take him at his word.  Obama is a politician who admits lying in his campaign materials, in order to agrandize himself with the groups he needs to get votes from.</p>
<p>He admits, no in fact he insists we believe that he lied to the voters in 1996, by falsely representing his position.</p>
<p>Now he SAYS he is pro-gun.  And we are supposed to believe him, why?  Because he told us he would lie to us to get our vote?  Because he never apologized for lying in 1996?  Because he still lies about his position, like saying Heller was constitutional and later saying the Supreme Court was right to find it unconstitutional?  Even though the people who ruled that way were judges he opposed, while the judges he said he&#8217;d use as models all voted that it WAS constitutional?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the deal:  NO statement of what a candidate will do in the future is &#8220;fact&#8221;, until the future is the past.  So no claim that the candidate is lying about his intentions can be called &#8220;false&#8221;.  </p>
<p>For example, imagine FactCheck in 1992.  Someone runs an ad saying &#8220;Bill Clinton will NOT give a child tax credit when he takes office&#8221;.</p>
<p>Factcheck: &#8220;This is a lie.  Clinton has said he would do a $500 per child tax credit&#8221;.</p>
<p>Except in 1993, weeks after taking office, Clinton said he would NOT do the $500 tax credit.</p>
<p>So, what Factcheck would call a lie would turn out to be the truth.  Now, how can something that ends up being true EVER be called a lie?</p>
<p>If Obama becomes President, in 2012 we can evaluate if anything the NRA said was a &#8220;lie&#8221;.  If Factcheck wants to argue that the NRA claims are unsupported, they would be wrong but within the bounds of civil discourse.  </p>
<p>But they are not lies.  You can&#8217;t lie about what you THINK someone WILL do in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-398299</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-398299</guid>
		<description>Obama has gotten so used to the main stream media  defending him for so long, Obama responds to any opposition by trying to stifle free speech. Obama is trying to weaken America, by taking away our rights to bear arms, by weakening our military, by getting rid of our nuclear weapons, by blocking offshore drilling, by making nice with our enemies, and by proposing an economic policy which will bring us to our knees. If Obama gets elected, within four years, America will be a third world country, at the mercy of tyrants around the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama has gotten so used to the main stream media  defending him for so long, Obama responds to any opposition by trying to stifle free speech. Obama is trying to weaken America, by taking away our rights to bear arms, by weakening our military, by getting rid of our nuclear weapons, by blocking offshore drilling, by making nice with our enemies, and by proposing an economic policy which will bring us to our knees. If Obama gets elected, within four years, America will be a third world country, at the mercy of tyrants around the world.</p>
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		<title>By: PCD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-396686</link>
		<dc:creator>PCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-396686</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t bother showing this to your local dead tree editor.  Here&#039;s the head of the Iowa Editors&#039; Assn. reaction:

Thanks for sharing this blog entry.

Even if an error occurred, I don’t believe that shows factcheck is pro-Obama and anti-fact. I’ve seen other factcheck entries that take the Democrats’ false or questionable claims to task.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t bother showing this to your local dead tree editor.  Here&#8217;s the head of the Iowa Editors&#8217; Assn. reaction:</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this blog entry.</p>
<p>Even if an error occurred, I don’t believe that shows factcheck is pro-Obama and anti-fact. I’ve seen other factcheck entries that take the Democrats’ false or questionable claims to task.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-396635</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-396635</guid>
		<description>FactCheck.org is a liberal interests group posing as a non-partisan website.

When it comes to Republicans, words and deeds are examined.

When it comes to Democrats, words are examined and deeds are ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FactCheck.org is a liberal interests group posing as a non-partisan website.</p>
<p>When it comes to Republicans, words and deeds are examined.</p>
<p>When it comes to Democrats, words are examined and deeds are ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: SPQR</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/09/23/unmitigated-garbage-from-factcheckorg-on-obamas-second-amendment-record/comment-page-2/#comment-396468</link>
		<dc:creator>SPQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=14111#comment-396468</guid>
		<description>Syntax, utter nonsense is yours.

You do nothing to respond to the content of this post and immediately launch into a &quot;Hey Look over there!&quot; comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Syntax, utter nonsense is yours.</p>
<p>You do nothing to respond to the content of this post and immediately launch into a &#8220;Hey Look over there!&#8221; comment.</p>
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