Patterico's Pontifications

9/20/2008

L.A. Times Claims Obama More Honest than McCain

Filed under: 2008 Election,Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 2:47 pm

All week, I’ve been meaning to write about this Los Angeles Times article from last weekend, which claimed that McCain has been more dishonest than Obama:

For weeks, John McCain and his campaign have made claims contradicted by reality: Barack Obama favors sex education for kindergartners and insulted Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin; Palin sold her state plane on EBay and turned down federal money for the “bridge to nowhere.”

Obama has argued that McCain doesn’t understand voter concern about the foundering economy and — attention, Michigan voters — has refused to support loan guarantees for the auto industry.

If any of those statements rings true, then a campaign adage has proved itself again: Repeat something often enough, and it becomes real, even when it isn’t.

Political innocents may wonder why a candidate like McCain, whose campaign is premised on what he calls “straight talk” — and to a lesser extent Obama — have veered from the flat truth.

The answer is simple: because it works.

Obama has veered from the truth less than McCain, eh?

First, let’s look at one of the alleged untruths from McCain: that “Barack Obama favors sex education for kindergartners.”

Here is a direct quote from the bill that Obama voted for:

Each class or course in comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.

Sounds like comprehensive sex education for kindergarteners to me!

Now, it is true that the bill also specifies that any classes must be “age and developmentally appropriate.” Does that mean that we’re only talking about not letting bad people touch your privates? Byron York interviewed one of the sponsors of the bill, who said that the bill “absolutely” dealt with more than simply education about inappropriate touching. And his view seems borne out by the text of the law — which, again, specifies teaching about STDs, even to kindergarteners. As Allahpundit notes, this “leav[es] us to wonder what sort of information on AIDS and syphilis is ‘developmentally appropriate for five-year-olds.” Alas, legislators’ and educators’ views on that may be different from those of parents of kindergarteners.

As for whether Obama insulted Sarah Palin with his “lipstick on a pig” comment, I have already written about how the “fact-checkers” have declared this utterly subjective claim to be objectively false — even as Obama’s audiences, and some leftist commenters here, clearly perceived it as an insult . . . and reveled in it.

McCain did indeed say — once! — that Palin had sold her state plane on eBay; Palin herself has been careful to state (correctly) that she put it on eBay. So that’s hardly a claim that McCain has made “for weeks.”

The “bridge to nowhere” topic is more complicated, but ultimately is not as big a deal as many of Palin’s critics portray it. Palin has said that she said “thanks but no thanks” to Congress on the bridge to nowhere. Palin did kill the bridge project — a fact that the AP noted when she did it. But she initially supported it, and she kept the money and spent it on other projects.

Reasonable people could argue that the repeated “thanks but no thanks” statement contains one or more false implications: 1) that she always opposed the bridge, and 2) that she gave the money back. Neither is true. However, equally reasonable people might respond that politicians are not under a consistent obligation to remind people of past instances where they held a different position. The press should tell people about those past positions — and when pressed on them, a candidate should acknowledge them. That doesn’t make it a lie to fail to constantly note your previous inconsistent positions in speech settings. Some of Palin’s critics have taken possible implications and turned them into positive assertions of fact. Not surprisingly, these same critics have studiously ignored Palin’s true record of budget-cutting, including a veto of $268 million of spending at a time when the state had budget surpluses. This record suggests that she would indeed be strong on earmarks — not to mention that John McCain never took one, even as Obama and Biden had their noses consistently in the trough.

Meanwhile, what about Obama’s lies??

Never mind the old stuff about how he claimed an aide filled out a questionnaire with extreme views, but his handwriting showed up on the form; how he said he wouldn’t run for president in 2008; how he traces his very existence to the generosity of the Kennedy family, etc.

Obama recently ran a dishonest ad tying John McCain to Rush Limbaugh on the issue of immigration reform — and distorting Limbaugh’s quotes beyond all recognition in the process. In June, Obama claimed McCain was “fueled” by money from lobbyists and PACs, when that actually accounted for only 1.7% of McCain’s money.

On his own record, Obama flat-out lied about taking public financing — and he lied about why he didn’t do it, blaming it all on McCain when it was his own decision. Just last month, Obama misstated the reason that he voted against a bill that would have required doctors to give medical attention to babies born alive after a botched abortion. Obama took money from oil companies and claimed he didn’t (I’ll give the L.A. Times credit for catching this — but why did they forget about it in last weekend’s article??).

Over the past week, Obama inflated his role in the creation of the stimulus package. And Obama is now being deceptive about McCain’s regulatory record. I can’t find a story about these topics in the L.A. Times.

Now, some of what I have listed occurred after the L.A. Times article I’m criticizing. But the paper has hardly made a big deal out of these lies.

Saying that McCain has been less honest than Obama is ridiculous, and underlines the partisan slant this paper puts on its stories.

42 Responses to “L.A. Times Claims Obama More Honest than McCain”

  1. The lies flowing from B.H. Obama come fast and often. Ayers children went to school with his kids. (Ayers children are adults) The list of Obama lies are very long. IF his lips are moving he is lying. How about the one where he would end NAFTA and send Goolsby to Canada to tell them it was just campaign BS. His ties ot Annenberg and Ayers, when he quit using coke. Any time Obama makes the statement “I have always” the next words are lies.

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III (620731)

  2. Each class or course in comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.

    Sounds like comprehensive sex education for kindergarteners to me!

    Only a wingnut could come to that conclusion.

    Is that all you’ve got? It only highlights the weakness of your candidate.

    And, Palin? Looks like some serious buyers remorse is setting in. Too funny. The PTA hockey Mom ain’t selling too good these days.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  3. “Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin; Palin sold her state plane on EBay and turned down federal money for the “bridge to nowhere.””

    Both statements are lies.

    Why is it a problem to point that out and set the record straight?

    jharp (f4bed7)

  4. Harp demonstrates, once again, how supposedly intelligent people can repeat a clear English phrase and still not understand it.

    comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.

    How does teaching a kindergartner about AIDS and STD prevention NOT be explicit ?

    I rest my case. The Obama people can say black is white until they turn blue but that won’t make it true.

    Whoops ! That’s racist. I denounce myself.

    How about, “If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have ?”

    Answer: four. You can call a tail a leg but that doesn’t make it one.

    Work on that reading comprehension, harp.

    Mike K (b74f82)

  5. There’s a partial list of some of BHO’s lies between March and August at my name’s link. Bear in mind that it’s only a partial list. I don’t think anyone in the MSM has even come close to acknowledging those.

    While posts like this might embarrass the LAT and cause them to do a little reporting, something that would be far more effective would be encouraging people to go do their own reporting: go to an BHO appearance, call him on one or two of his lies, and then upload video of his answer to video sharing sites.

    If someone is able to make BHO look very bad on video it’s going to have a very strong impact on the election, not to mention getting hundreds of thousands or millions of Youtube views.

    Just a partial list (62c4c5)

  6. Mike K,

    “Now, it is true that the bill also specifies that any classes must be “age and developmentally appropriate.”

    Try reading a little more thoroughly and carefully.

    I have copied the very next sentence in the post so you can read it again.

    jharp (f4bed7)

  7. There’s an additional, Patterico-friendly angle to my proposal above. Go ask BHO a question like this:

    “Sen. BHO: on 9/21/08, the LAT said that you said that [your favorite food was Chinese]. But, Patterico looked through your speeches and found [twenty instances of you saying Thai was your favorite]. Who’s lying?”

    In fact, I’ll bet a prosecutor like Patterico could take posts like this and fashion countless questions for BHO from it, with some working in both the LAT and his site. Alternatively, there are three questions here.

    Just a partial list (62c4c5)

  8. Honesty is a worhty goal for humans.

    Since Obama rejects honesty, how can he gain more?

    0 + 0 = 0

    Vote John and Sarah 2008

    highpockets (5dbd59)

  9. worhty = worthy But who is counting?

    highpockets (5dbd59)

  10. In a country based on laws, a subpoena from a legally constituted legislative investigative body is to be obeyed.

    Yet Todd Palin refuses to testify or even appear.
    Following Gov. Sarah Palin’s logic, an executive committee, made up of individuals she herself has appointed, should be charged with this matter.

    Are we returning to the days when we were a British colony, with the Crown investigating the Crown? Places where this principle applies today are called “banana republics”.

    Interestingly, the press releases related to this story are from “McCain campaign officials”, in particular from “McCain spokesman Ed O’Callaghan”. Has the candidate for President, John McCain, and his Rove-Boys, now moved into the Governor’s Office of the State of Alaska?

    The real story here is not just this case of willful obstruction of justice by Palin’s husband.

    Rather, we see, unfolding before our very eyes, a tight-knitted conspiracy to obstruct justice being organized and perpetrated by none other than the candidate for the Presidency of the United States of America, John McCain, and his closest aides.

    If this will not convince law-abiding citizens of our country that the McCain/Palin team of law-benders and law-breakers must be kept from the White House, I wonder what will?

    I plea with all voters who believe in the rule of law to withhold their vote from McCain/Palin, and either stay home, or vote for Obama/Biden.

    Our country should not be subjected to 4 more years of lawlessness in high office.

    fbla1850 (427079)

  11. a subpoena from a legally constituted legislative investigative body is to be obeyed.

    Unless a motion to quash is successful because the “legally constituted legislative body” is a political hit job that’s attempting to give rats like you talking points by filing baseless charges.

    The real story here is not just this case of willful obstruction of justice by Palin’s husband.

    No, the real story here is the defense of an unfit and dangerous patrolman by the left in an attempt to score political points.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  12. Part of the story is also that the individual who was terminated has not even filed a complaint about his termination. What are the legislators even investigating if there are no complaints?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  13. jharp:

    Here’s a newsflash for you: It is impossible to teach the dangers of HIV transmission without also teaching about sexual intercourse – and I add, without teaching the variant of sexual intercourse that is MOST likely to cause HIV. No instruction in this particular area can be made “age aappropriate” for a kindergartner. Parents understand this to the core of their being. This is why Obama invented the bit about predators. Very few parents want their tender, five year old tots taught about sexual congress, much less the more salacious varieties. On this topic you and Obama are simply wrong, wrong, wrong.

    marybel (30760c)

  14. More dishonesty: Obama is sending out Lilly Ledbetter to lie on his behalf. He knows it’s false, but why should he care?

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  15. Obama’s message has not changed.
    Mccain can’t even remember the stance he had the day before. It’s Obama vs (Mccain vs Mccain). This is the most clear presidential election I have ever seen in my entire life, and the stockpile footage I’ve seen from US history. Obama is the only true leader that this nation has left standing.

    Daniel (fd7b75)

  16. Here’s a newsflash for you: It is impossible to teach the dangers of HIV transmission without also teaching about sexual intercourse – and I add, without teaching the variant of sexual intercourse that is MOST likely to cause HIV.

    I guess jharp has never had sex – hetero or otherwise.

    Gerald A (ebb8b5)

  17. Why is Sarah Palin’s stance on creationism not on the headlines? These nuts want to revamp our educational system to have a bent toward Christian theism. Turning over Roe vs. Wade… hmmm, everything is suddenly making sense. Sarah Palin is a very capable of leading this nation, although I question the direction she will lead us. Imagine if she got that phone call at 3 am in the morning…. just imagine.

    Daniel (fd7b75)

  18. #15 – Obama is the only true leader that this nation has left standing.

    This Nation left Obama standing? They could have at least provided him a chair when they abandoned him.

    Why do Obama’s supporters feel the need to channel Leni Riefenstahl and Pravda when shilling for the chosen one? Are there a disproportionate number of them who write infomercials for late night TV?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  19. “Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin; Palin sold her state plane on EBay and turned down federal money for the “bridge to nowhere.””

    Both statements are lies.

    She didn’t make those statements.

    Gerald A (ebb8b5)

  20. Since when does the President set the educational curricula in this country?
    If he (the Pres) was that powerful, RR could have dismembered the Dept of Education and saved us Billions of Dollars, and uplifted the schooling of millions of kids.

    Another Drew (4692ec)

  21. Oh, BTW…
    would someone show Daniel the way back into the lion-pit – it’s their feeding time.

    Another Drew (4692ec)

  22. It’s a rather awkwardly worded statute, but it doesn’t require sex education classes at all. But if they are provided in any grade, they have to include STD prevention.

    God I can’t wait for this election to be over so I can start reading something other than “Obama is evil; long live Palin!” posts on every conservative blog.

    Phil (3b1633)

  23. Daniel —

    Obama’s message has not changed.
    – Wrong on day one; wrong now.

    Mccain can’t even remember the stance he had the day before.
    – Yes he can! [If you don't know why that's funny on at least two levels, think about it for awhile.]

    It’s Obama vs (Mccain vs Mccain). This is the most clear presidential election I have ever seen in my entire life, and the stockpile footage I’ve seen from US history.
    – Are you trying to say “stock file footage”? And what exactly is the clear impression of those previous elections that you get from viewing that stock footage?

    Obama is the only true leader that this nation has left standing.
    – Well, he’s certainly led you on; although, you do admit that Reid and Madam Botox are NOT leaders, so you’re only partly wrong.

    Why is Sarah Palin’s stance on creationism not on the headlines?
    – Because it’s meaningless in relation to the job she is seeking.

    These nuts want to revamp our educational system to have a bent toward Christian theism.
    – The Vice President has no power to do that; and remember, it is the GOP that wants the federal govt to get out of public education.

    Turning over Roe vs. Wade… hmmm, everything is suddenly making sense.
    – “Turning over” like a flapjack? What country are you from?

    Sarah Palin is a very capable of leading this nation, although I question the direction she will lead us.
    – A better one than where Bambi O’Biden would take us.

    Imagine if she got that phone call at 3 am in the morning…. just imagine.
    – Imagine a non sequiter, told with all the earnestness of someone trying to convince you that it really means something . . . just imagine.

    Icy Truth (0b0c9a)

  24. God, I can’t wait for this election to be over so Phil can start crying for real, instead of the crocodile tears he’s been shedding up to now.

    Icy Truth (0b0c9a)

  25. Mike K,

    “Now, it is true that the bill also specifies that any classes must be “age and developmentally appropriate.”

    Try reading a little more thoroughly and carefully.

    Oh, I didn’t read carefully ? Why don’t you try reading the true story of the bill?”

    I have copied the very next sentence in the post so you can read it again.

    Comment by jharp

    Would you mind explaining how AIDS education is done in an “age appropriate manner?”

    Each class or course in comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.

    You idiot.

    Even the bill sponsor has admitted that it was inappropriate but that didn’t stop Obambi.

    Mike K (b74f82)

  26. Each class or course in comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.

    Comment by Mike K — 9/20/2008 @ 10:38 pm

    Yes. The operative phrases there, for the benefit of jharp, being “EACH class or course” and ANY of grades K through 12″. Not “some” but “any.” That means that a course being taught in kindergarten has to include instruction on “the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.”

    It’s good we’re discussing wording of the bill. Because the wording is no accident, and will be seized upon by those intent on sexualizing children at younger and younger ages.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  27. For the benefit of harpie and the other Obamatards stuck on stupid on this, the suggested curriculum for grades K-3 includes intercourse, masturbation and homosexuality in addition to what is described in the comments above. It may not be clinically as descriptive as classes in higher grades, but the subject matter is there. I’m sure you are proud and can see why your candidate is upset to have this publicized.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  28. I do not know whether Obama advocates handing out condoms in grades K-3, however.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  29. Idiots this bill is not telling the state run public school systems what grade sex education should be taught. What it is saying is that when it is taught at any grade level k thru 12 that it should include” the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.” Each state determines on their own if and when sex education is taught. I’m actually against teaching sex education in school, but if and when a school dose decides to teach sex education, it only makes sense to include the prevention of sexually transmitted infections.

    vince (705bc2)

  30. OK, Harpy, enlighten us all. What do you consider an “age and developmentally appropriate” way to teach kindergartners about STDs? Telling kids that that the good storkies bring babies but the bad storkies bring disease? What?

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  31. Xrlq,

    “Now, it is true that the bill also specifies that any classes must be “age and developmentally appropriate.””

    jharp (f4bed7)

  32. Idiots, vince? Not so much. You do realize that you have just asserted something without quoting any relevant text to support your position? You also are staking a claim that seems to have escaped virtually everyone, including Obama speaking in front of Planned Parenthood? In this instance you are calling names, yet only serving to identify yourself.

    rhodeymark (6231e5)

  33. Vince will explain to us how you teach the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV to kindergarteners. I’m sure he’ll have a good answer as soon as he can get the Obama campaign on the phone and get those talking points.

    Mike K (b74f82)

  34. Now Obama has ads out lying about McCain’s positions on social security reform.

    Typical. The “Lightbringer” is a “Liebringer”.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  35. Used to be Andy and Barney Fife..

    Now’s Obama and his socialist life.

    Is this what America means so you,

    Washington Lawyers that like to sue.

    No doubt I’d be safer somewhere in Iraq

    Then I would be an O”bama Hud home shack…

    At least Obama’s 30 lawyers wouldn’t be on my back.

    Hunting for anything they can find on the trail..

    Finding nothing, so they hacked my mail.

    Well they got the receipe for my moose stew..

    Surely this country can do better then YOU…

    So the dem’s TV marketed Mr. O like girls gone wild and a “sham wow” cat..

    Just how could they run an empty suit “present voting” senator like that?

    Boy oh boy just what a stir..

    When we found out he couldn’t talk with out a teleprompter.

    Not to mention his socialism character.

    This country trusts you to vote with your heart..

    Please get those two lawyer BUMS out like a faart.

    We all like to think that McCain is the same…

    BUT forget Kennedy, Biden, Byrd, and Pelosi are also to BLAME.

    So please don’t be an angry snot..

    Vote in John and Sarah cause that’s all we got

    Barney Flag (dae697)

  36. First of all I’m independent and I have not made up my mind which candidate I will vote for. I make this statement because I wanted to establish that I have no political agenda when making my comments. When reading any law you have to know the spirit of the law before you can judge the authors or the approvers of the law appropriately. What is the spirit of the law? The spirit of the law is the idea or ideas that the people who made the law wanted to have effect. The legislation that you are referring to states: “ each class or course in comprehensive sex education in any of grades K through 12 shall include” the key word is each. The definition of the word each is: used to refer to every member of a group of people or things, considered individually. This legislation is not mandating what grade level sex education should be taught, it is stating that each (every member of a group of people or things, considered individually) school at what ever grade level K through 12 chooses to teach sexual education should teach about sexual transmitted diseases. There is no federal legislation mandating what grade level sex education should be taught and this one doesn’t either. By the way K thru 12 just happens to cover all public school students. Again I would like to reiterate that I’m against sex education being taught in school. I have raised four beautiful intelligent daughters and all of them attended public school. My wife and I explained the dose and don’t about sex and all of four of them have turned out well. This legislation has no impact on what grade level sex education should be taught, is stating Each and every time any public school governing body decides to teach sex education k thru 12 they must include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV. If you are concerned about what grade sex education is taught our if it should be taught at all please contact your local governing body to express your opinion like I did when my children attended public school.

    vince (705bc2)

  37. I’m a lifelong concerned Christian liberal Democrat and I haven’t yet made up my mind who to vote for in this election. Many of Barack Obama’s positions cause me great concern. The one outline by Vince above doesn’t do his position on sex education justice. Speaking at a meeting of Planned Parenthood in July, 2007, Obama said:

    “Sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is ‘age-appropriate,’ is ‘the right thing to do.”

    The Illinois Act merely tweaked the provisions on STD’s when you read it. It substituted HIV for AIDS in the text, BFD, and made discussion of other STD’s more explicit. The proposed curriculum for grades K-3 if sex education is offered includes intercourse, masturbation and homosexuality.

    Personally, I didn’t want to have to explain fudge packing and rusty trombones to my kids until they were older, but with an Obama Presidency maybe that’s what I have to look forward to.

    It seems like the Democratic party is leaving me.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  38. As an Obama supporter, I’ll give you my take.

    I think Vince above makes a good case above, I’ll also note that no one (anywhere, ever) had any intention of teaching “comprehensive” sex education to kindergarteners.

    Lipstick on a Pig: He never called Palin a pig; wasn’t referring to her in his comments, nor was he doing so before or after. Does it still leave the inferrence hanging there? Sure, but certainly in no way that anyone can definitively say he was making the inferrence. Personally, I think they may have set it all up as an elaborate trap that the McCain camp fell in to – but that really depends on how much guile you’re willing to grant them.

    Saying he wouldn’t run for president: Everyone says that – just like everyone denies they want to be VP. He may have even been honest at the time. Verdict: Who cares?

    Rush Limbaugh ad: is dishonest and should be pulled. There was probably a way they could have crafted this argument that worked – but this wasn’t it.

    “Fueled” by Lobbyists: define fueled and call it deft overstatement – sure are a lot of “ex”-lobbyists running McCain’s campaign.

    Public Finance: Definite flip-flop and everyone knows it. Definitely putting lipstick on their own pig there.

    McCain’s Regulation record: fair game; McCain has long been for deregulation – the Hot Air article even notes it. McCain’s a big boy, he can defend himself on the cherry-picking – or send Gramm out to do it for him ;) (and if one more person says/writes/sings about President Clinton signing Gramm’s bill I’m gonna scream – the damn thing was veto-proof)

    The rest look like small taters and probably double talking politics as usual, so I’m not bothering with them.

    End verdict: McCain has pushed some blatant dihonesty and continued to do so even after they were pointed out. I think he’s gone further than Obama, but I’ll concede it likely comes down to a matter of degrees and that it could all depend on who you favor.

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  39. “. . . .and that it could all depend on who you favor . . .”

    Yeah, and the LAT favors Obama.

    I forgot about the 100 years in Iraq distortion. I’ll have to add that one.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  40. McCain’s Regulation record: fair game; McCain has long been for deregulation – the Hot Air article even notes it

    Uh, Hot Air says:

    “. . .while McCain has opposed federal regulation as a rule, he has fought for tougher oversight on the very functions that failed in the credit-sector meltdown. . .”

    You sort of glossed over that part.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  41. I think Vince above makes a good case above, I’ll also note that no one (anywhere, ever) had any intention of teaching “comprehensive” sex education to kindergarteners.

    Bob Loblaw – Well, you keep glossing over quotes like Obama’s to Planned Parenthood July 2007:

    “Sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is ‘age-appropriate,’ is ‘the right thing to do.”

    plus take a gander at the comprehensive age appropriate curriculum proposed for grades K-3, which you have conspicuously avoided discussing. Why is that Bob? Because it contradicts your point I believe and that of other Obama supporters.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  42. JHarp, you didn’t answer my question. At all. Either tell us what you think an “age and developmentally appropriate” kindergarten lesson on STDs would look like, or admit you have no clue yourself. Simply copying and pasting past non-answers doesn’t cut it.

    Xrlq (931f72)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.3048 secs.