Patterico's Pontifications

9/5/2008

Palin More Popular than McCain — or Obama

Filed under: 2008 Election — Patterico @ 8:19 am



What was that about Palin-McCain again?

A week ago, most Americans had never heard of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. Now, following a Vice Presidential acceptance speech viewed live by more than 40 million people, Palin is viewed favorably by 58% of American voters. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 37% hold an unfavorable view of the self-described hockey mom.

. . . .

The new data also shows significant increases in the number who say McCain made the right choice and the number who say Palin is ready to be President. Generally, John McCain’s choice of Palin earns slightly better reviews than Barack Obama’s choice of Joe Biden.

Perhaps most stunning is the fact that Palin’s favorable ratings are now a point higher than either man at the top of the Presidential tickets this year. As of Friday morning, Obama and McCain are each viewed favorably by 57% of voters. Biden is viewed favorably by 48%.

Her popularity level may not remain this high, of course. But: the Conventional Wisdom that McCain made a bad choice appears to be changing, to a view that he made a wise pick.

John McCain’s judgment is being viewed favorably by the American people.

102 Responses to “Palin More Popular than McCain — or Obama

  1. Rasmussen’s daily has it a close race again. Considering that it was 5 points and is now 2, on a 3-day poll, indicates considerable motion towards McCain.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  2. Wait until McCain hammers Obama on the gun rights issue. Obama has an interesting state Senate record.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  3. Harry Smith on CBS’s The Early Show still won’t let this “is she being a good mother” thing go.

    The worst, though, was Meredith Viera on The Today Show on Monday. The woman (Viera), who basically was fired from 60 Minutes for wanting to work part-time when her kids were younger, could barely disguise her bitterness — sounding like a robot reading from a cue card when she said, “I respect her choice, but . . .”

    Icy Truth (90c3b8)

  4. Those numbers just show how blatantly racist Republicans are. The ascension of Palin is an insult to all American women, children, and minorities.

    JD (5f0e11)

  5. JD…
    You need to try harder on that sarcasm thing…

    Bigot!

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  6. I broke down the question into three parts:

    1. The catch is, if you vote for Palin, you have to vote for McCain;
    2. The catch is, if you vote for McCain, you have to vote for Palin;
    3. The catch is, if you don’t vote for McCain and Palin, Obama wins.

    nk (21731d)

  7. nk…
    Ain’t a law-school education a wonderful thing?

    But, seriously, that about nails it!

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  8. Clearyl the Republicans are running Sarah Palin for President. JoHn McCain is just a pass-around prop like Trig Palin.

    David Ehrenstein (961ad1)

  9. nk–

    I think it is possible for me to vote for anyone and have McCain still win.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  10. Ain’t a law-school education a wonderful thing?

    *Jesuit* law-school education, if you don’t mind? 😉

    nk (21731d)

  11. Icy, I saw that excreable Viera interview as well – someone should ask her how she can possibly justify handling two different media jobs at the same time, while her seriously disabled husband is left alone at home, all by himself.

    Dmac (874677)

  12. Genuflect, Genuflect, Genuflect.
    h/t to Tom Lehrer.

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  13. 9. *Jesuit* law-school education? Pray tell, which one? Mine was Villanova.

    Who on daytime talk TV is not in the tank for Obama? All I can think of is the meek right wing chick Elizabeth on The View. Wonder how Greenspan feels about his wife cheating in her heart with Obama.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  14. nk – Georgetown? Fordham? Loyola? I am a product of a Jesuit high school and can never thank my parents enough for steering me in that direction when the time came to choose high school. The local neighborhood public high school conjured up images of knife fights, metal detectors, and learning how to add fractions in the senior advanced math class.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  15. I still don’t like Sarah Palin. But McCain did something last night that I though was amazing. He called out the Republicans! The statement “Republicans traded principles for power” pretty much calls a spade-a-spade. It takes a brave man to stand in front the nation and tell his friends that they have been “WRONG”!

    McCain : Change = Republicans and Democrats must change.
    Obama : Change = Bush must go.

    James (15329b)

  16. I still don’t like Sarah Palin. But McCain did something last night that I though was amazing. He called out the Republicans! The statement “Republicans traded principles for power” pretty much calls a spade-a-spade. It takes a brave man to stand in front the nation and tell his friends that they have been “WRONG”!

    McCain : Change = Republicans and Democrats must change.
    Obama : Change = Bush must go.

    James (15329b)

  17. Media bashing Palin is sending Republican numbers through the roof. Proof their bashing her:
    http://jraymondwright.blogspot.com/2008/09/media-bashes-palin-proof.html
    Please keep up the good work you liberal hacks.

    J. Raymond Wright (d83ab3)

  18. James-

    Not sure why you don’t like Palin. She’s been kicking establishment Republican ass in Alaska since resigning her Ethics Commission post.

    The reason she’s so popular up there is that she doesn’t care if you have R or D after your name. But have C (corrupt) or I (incompetent) and she’ll put you in her sights.

    MartyH (52fae7)

  19. Loyola University Law School, Chicago.

    nk (21731d)

  20. I do respect Sarah Palin’s fight against corruption, the fight against corporate influence and her fiscal responsibility

    But I have trouble with anyone who thinks creationism is science. Creationism and Faith should be taught in Philosophy class along with other creation myths of Islam, Hinduism, Pastafarianism, etc. not in Science class. Science is about observation and Faith can not be observed.

    Also, by not changing her “abstinence only” stance after her teenage daughter got pregnant, shows she is ignoring the Parental role in not preventing a teen pregnancy. By saying “Kids Make mistakes”, She has dumped full responsibility on a 17 year old and not acknowledged that she could have made a difference and by changing her actions it might have been prevented it. Sure, it is a private matter, but it shows me that She believes she is right regardless of the outcome. Which is not a trait I want in a politician.

    I REALLY want to have her answer the question “What kind of sexual education did you provide for your Daughter? and how has her pregnancy changed your beliefs?”

    An Intelligent person after seeing something undesirable happen, evaluates their actions and changes their policies. John McCain has proven time and time again he will tackle difficult problems, admits when things aren’t working and changes his policies. Obama gives glimpses of this but frankly he hasn’t done enough to be certain.

    James (e07696)

  21. James…
    What kind of sexual education have you provided for your daughter?
    Actually, don’t tell me, it is (after all) none of my business, or anyone else’s.
    Just as, the sex-ed provided by the Palin’s to their off-spring is none of your business, either.
    Gov. Palin has not made her daughter’s condition a point in her political career, or the campaign for the WH of McCain/Palin. You do not have the standing to do either.

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  22. RE: James comment
    Teens getting pregnant span the educational, financial and religious spectrum. No one can claim the high road with regards to what kind of education works. Or are you suggesting that Jamie Spears is a product of abstinance only! And you don’t abandon your principles because it is not a popular view. An alcholic sometimes falls off the wagon, should we declare AA doesn’t work? It was her daughters mistake and apparently she along with the boyfriend are going to live with the consequences which is called personal responsibilty. And no her daughters private life should not be part of the public conversation. Unless you also want to talk about Bidden’s son’s pending lawsuite accusing him of fraud. Now if people want to have a seperate debate about sex education fine but not in the context of her family or their beliefs. And given all the important things facing our country is this really something we want to address nationally rather than on a state or community level.

    Debra (191a92)

  23. Drew,

    The things I have learned about Sarah Palin from her response to Bristol’s pregnancy.

    1) She ignores her parental role in the raising of her child. Will she ignore her role as VP when bad things happen? “Gee! Cabinet Members make mistakes, I just can’t control them!”.

    2) She has not openly changed her actions/policies based on a relevant personal traumatic undesirable event. This leads me to believe that she can not see cause-and-effect and will not change/evaluate her opinions even when a faced with a poor outcome. Which is a flaw we can not afford to have in our Government.

    Until Sarah Palin says “I screwed up with Bristol, this is what I did and this is how I will do it differently in the future”, I am left with these assumptions.

    James (e07696)

  24. You don’t know any of that, in that you have no idea of the communication between the Palin’s and their children.
    If you want to know what she does in government, just look at her record in Juneau.

    Grow Up!

    Also, need I remind you, that when you make assumptions, etc. etc.

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  25. James is an ass, FWIW.

    JD (5f0e11)

  26. Until Sarah Palin says “I screwed up with Bristol, this is what I did and this is how I will do it differently in the future”, I am left with these assumptions.
    .
    And Al Gore’s son? Same calculus?

    cboldt (3d73dd)

  27. You have learned none of that, James. You have asserted it. You have assumed it. You have claimed it. Learned it? Not so much …

    JD (5f0e11)

  28. James is a complete ass. He’s been belaboring this particular point over several threads now which makes me question how sincere he is about this being some important issue with regard to Palin’s judgment to govern as opposed to being just some pervy fascination by a socially retarded creep.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  29. Somebody needs to put this astroturf back in the bed of Bill Clinton’s pickup truck.

    McGehee (25adee)

  30. An alcholic sometimes falls off the wagon, should we declare AA doesn’t work?

    We can say “AA doesn’t work for everyone!” And if enough AA members continue to fall off the wagon we should evaluate the AA program and change it for the better. Because that is what intelligent people do!

    it was her daughters mistake and apparently she along with the boyfriend are going to live with the consequences which is called personal responsibilty.

    Nice way to shrug off parental responsibility and throw two 17 year old kids under the bus.

    Jamie Spears is a product of abstinance only!

    I think JLS and Bristol are exactly the same! They are products of Parents that didn’t give their children the knowledge to protect themselves in an adult world. But for 2 completely different reasons, Sarah Palin because of her religion and Lynn Spears because she was completely negligent. I am of course guessing about Sarah Palin since she refuses to talk about it.

    I think every voter should ask themselves: “Do these Candidates acknowledge and learn from her mistakes?” and unless Sarah Palin addresses the Issue of Bristol’s pregnancy. The only answer I have for this is no.

    As far as Biden’s son is concerned, If Biden had a public position that was relevant to the subject of his son’s fraud (like Palin’s sex education policies) then yes we should discuss it as well.

    James (e07696)

  31. Since James has not been a party to any of the conversations among the Palin family about Bristol’s pregnancy there is nothing he can truthfully say he has learned about Sarah about it other than that Sarah continues to be a loving mother.

    Asserting otherwise is just pure douchebaggery.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  32. Jack,

    So ability to learn from your mistakes is not relevant to governing?

    James (e07696)

  33. Jack,

    So ability to learn from your mistakes is not relevant to governing?

    James (e07696)

  34. James,
    So ability to learn from your mistakes is not relevant to double-posting?

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  35. You still haven’t learned how to not double post so you certainly have little to offer by way of that. Again, you have belabored this point incessantly and have for some reason come back to indulge it. I suggest you go back and read the copious answers that have been offered to you in previous threads when you were beating this point endlessly and replied to in turn with much credit to the those who’ve had the patience to endure your vapid, endless need to indulge this.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  36. Another Drew,

    No, and it isn’t relevant to the conversation. Try and stay focused.

    James (e07696)

  37. James – Bristol gor knocked up not Sarah. It was Bristol’s mistake. Do you even know if the Palin parents impose their views on their kids or let them come to their own decisions. You don’t even know that basic do you? Abstinence only is not taught in Alaskan schools either? You don’t know the circumstances of what led to the pregnancy eith do you? Protection, failed protection? You are just wildly speculating about events concerning which you know nothing.

    You are an incredibly stupid person. Others see it. Look in a mirror.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  38. Needs abdominal plexi implant.

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  39. Could somebody refer James to a porn site. He has an obvious need for some vagina sniffing.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  40. Jack,

    To stay with the simple facts:
    1) Sarah Palin was an abstinence only politician
    2) Her minor child has an unplanned pregnancy out of marriage.
    3) Sarah Palin is still an abstinence only politician.

    let’s take the sex out of it, For Example:
    1) The New Orleans Mayor is not if favor of spending more money on New Orleans levies.
    2) Katrina hits and flooding the city, killing thousands, and costing billions of dollars.
    3) New Orleans Mayor is still not if favor of spending more money on New Orleans levies.

    I don’t WANT to think Sarah Palin is incapable of changing her mind when faced with situation. but right now she hasn’t given me (as a voter any reason to think otherwise).

    Start will the stupid name call!

    James (e07696)

  41. Protection, failed protection?

    Where did you get this information?

    James (e07696)

  42. I don’t WANT to think

    That’s obvious.

    Don’t bother “thinking” for our sake, either. We don’t give a shit what you may end up thinking. You are an Obamabot. Just go masturbate in front of his picture.

    nk (21731d)

  43. Right because you can’t tear yourself away from getting your jollies thinking about Palin’s pregnant daughter on thread after thread. Nothing else about her or her candidacy gives you that special feeling does it James? Gotta keep hammering away at it to an audience that repeatedly informs you how stupid, perverse, and lame you are? How many responses have you been given on this topic before, Jimmy? You just can’t stop getting off on thinking about that knocked up girl can you?
    Start with it? I’ll just continue where I and just about everyone else has left off – you’re a fucking idiot whose bizarre obsession on this particular point has done nothing but make you a laughing stock. But hey keep coming back when you put down the Palin porn.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  44. nk – nice out of context comment.

    Jack – nice irrelevant personal attack.

    I understand personal attacks are required when you have no answers.

    James (e07696)

  45. I understand personal attacks are required when you have no answers.

    I would think that you should indeed understand that…

    It has been a democratic main-stay since late 2000…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  46. Bristol gor knocked up not Sarah. It was Bristol’s mistake.

    Nice way to throw a 17 year old kid under the bus.

    Do you even know if the Palin parents impose their views on their kids or let them come to their own decisions. You don’t even know that basic do you?

    Abstinence only is not taught in Alaskan schools either? You don’t know the circumstances of what led to the pregnancy eith do you? Protection, failed protection? You are just wildly speculating about events concerning which you know nothing.

    James (e07696)

  47. James:
    You might want to read this from someone more senior than yourself in the Dem Party hierocracy who might have something relevant to say on this matter to you:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122057558315401897.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  48. Nice way to throw a 17 year old kid under the bus.

    No, that’s called “accurate asignment of fault”…

    You use the term, but display no understanding… no wonder you get so mad when we use it in connection to Sen Obama…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  49. You don’t know the circumstances of what led to the pregnancy eith do you?

    No, we don’t. You don’t either, asshole.

    Let us know when you lose your virginity, and post it on YouPorn, and we’ll watch. It might be a long time though. Obama has a very long list of people like you just praying to pleasure him.

    nk (21731d)

  50. James! Thank you for the excellent analysis of why The Virginal Maddona Joan of Arc Sarah Palin needs a little more scrutiny and a little less fawning. It doesn’t annoy me coz I haven’t read all your previous posts.

    Like you I have no interest in yet another “I am always right no matter what” pol in a position of power, particularly if they want to use their influence to try and legislate their version of morality here. Maybe she is a pol like that, maybe she isn’t, maybe she will try to legislate morality, maybe she won’t, I don’t know, but let’s find out!

    As for “You are an Obamabot” Haw! I can play that game too yuh yuh bunch of Palintards!

    EdWood (c2268a)

  51. Wrong button. (I know this makes me worse than Osama Bin Laden and Charles Manson).

    Daly,

    So you believe that Parents hold no responsibility for their children’s mistakes?

    And you are correct. I don’t know the details behind the conception, or what Sarah’s taught her children. All I see are the facts.

    1) Sarah Palin was an abstinence only politician
    2) Her minor child has an unplanned pregnancy out of marriage.
    3) Sarah Palin is still an abstinence only politician

    A simple analysis
    1) Teen Pregnancy often leads to poverty and lack of education.
    2) low education and poverty are not good for America.

    3) Sarah Palin likely was an “abstinence only” parent.
    4) This event doesn’t seem to have change her mind or policy at all.
    5) Do I really trust a politician who can’t/won’t change her policies and actions after an event that directly impacts that policy?

    James (e07696)

  52. As for “You are an Obamabot” Haw! I can play that game too yuh yuh bunch of Palintards!

    Go right ahead. But a DailyKos, please? No one wants to see your pants-shitting hysterics, here.

    nk (21731d)

  53. James,

    Please allow me to explain why you are an idiot.

    Bristol’s pregnancy is not something which needs to be argued. It is a fact, out there for everyone to see. A tear in the tapestry which is Sarah Palin. Some people will reject the tapestry because of the flaw and some people won’t. That’s already been decided and your stupid little natterings will not make the least bit of difference.

    nk (21731d)

  54. Hey now! Everyone stop pounding on James.

    He made an excellent point.

    James brought up the portion of McCain’s speech last night where McCain lambasted the Republican party for getting out of touch with their basics. McCain was right. When the party in power has both houses and the Presidency, it often becomes too tempting to break open the Federal piggy bank and go to town like a drunken sailor, as there are no brakes on that runaway train.

    James, thank you for pointing to the one overriding reason that Barack Obama should not be the next POTUS.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  55. Hey, Apogee, you’ve got a lot of nerve comparing the GOP Congress to drunken sailors.

    Drunden Sailors have a lot more character.

    Consider yourself denounced.

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  56. Can someone please help me find the “k” key again?

    Another Drew (faec8a)

  57. Another Drew,

    I appreciate the actually commentary instead of the childish name calling. The article was sort of all over the place. It started with the point that “teen pregnancy is irrelevant” but never explains why. it covers that the VP is picked for political reasons not governing reasons. I think that is a terrible way to select a VP. I want the VP able to add something positive to the Administration and capable to take over if the President dies.

    Right now I am not certain Sarah Palin is more than a blinders on Republican (like George W. Bush).

    James (e07696)

  58. Drunden Sailors have a lot more character.

    I don’t know about that. Have you been to Drunden, old chap?

    I stand denounced, except that I’m sitting.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  59. Right now I am not certain Sarah Palin is more than a blinders on Republican (like George W. Bush).

    Whatever she is, she is a lot better that Mayor Daley’s buttboy, James.

    nk (21731d)

  60. “5) Do I really trust a politician who can’t/won’t change her policies and actions after an event that directly impacts that policy?”

    James – You fail to make the causation link in all your arguments. How was Bristol Palin’s pregnacy caused by the fact that her mother supports abstinence only sex education? Can you demonstrate to me that if her mother had not been an advocate of abstinence only sex education Bristol would have avoided an unplanned pregnancy? I don’t think you can answer either question satisfactorily and your argument falls flat on it’s face.

    Given that teen pregnancy rates have skyrocketed over the past 50 years and abstinence only sex education has not been taught, obviously that is not a leading cause of teen pregnancy.

    Thanks for playing.

    KTHNX

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  61. James #56 – I am not certain Sarah Palin is more than a blinders on Republican (like George W. Bush).

    One thing that might help you to tell the difference is that GWB never displaced anyone from his own party because they were corrupt. Sarah Palin has, and there’s a record of it.

    GWB played ball with his own party. Just like Barack Obama.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  62. So you believe that Parents hold no responsibility for their children’s mistakes?

    I don’t know…

    Shall we ask Sen. Joe Biden?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  63. How was Bristol Palin’s pregnacy caused by the fact that her mother supports abstinence only sex education?

    It obviously was not “caused” by her policy. It was caused by unprotected sex. However, her policy was “in effect” when her daughter got pregnant. And given that her policy was intended to prevent her daughter from getting pregnant, I can conclude that it was a complete failure or at most 66% effective if the other two don’t get pregnant. Of course, seeing their sister as a mother might impact it more than anything Sarah can say.

    Can you demonstrate to me that if her mother had not been an advocate of abstinence only sex education Bristol would have avoided an unplanned pregnancy?

    Impossible question! If Europe had not practiced appeasement would it have prevented WW II? No one knows. All we do know is, Europe tried appeasement and WW II happened. Sarah Palin was for abstinence only and Bristol Palin did get pregnant.

    James (e07696)

  64. Scott,

    If you can find a relevant policy position that Biden is advocating that can be linked to his son. Then yes.

    James (e07696)

  65. It’s a measure of the Democrats’ desperation that the only thing they can do is attack Sarah Palin’s children.

    Evil Pundit (843b74)

  66. James is always good for one of his patented strawmen arguments – just more of the same here.

    “…opposed to being just some pervy fascination by a socially retarded creep.”

    I was thinking more along the lines of James asking The Messiah for a reach around – because The One is always a generous kind of guy.

    Oh, I’m sorry – was I perhaps inquiring about things that have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation? Welcome to your world in Hell, Jamesy. So let’s hear your entire sexual history and how your parents have played a role in it – right now. If not, then shut your farkin’ pie hole, Mr. Child – Molestor – In – Training.

    Dmac (874677)

  67. James #62 – It was caused by unprotected sex.

    And you know this how?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  68. 60 – I would agree that both McCain and Palin have great integrity. However, I think you learn more about people from their failures than their successes. I think the way Sarah Palin is handling Bristol’s pregnancy is admirable. Unless she shows some “movement” on the abstinence only policy she really looses a lot of credibility.

    James (e07696)

  69. 64 – I don’t care about her kids. I care that her policies have failed in her own home and hasn’t changed her mind at all.

    66 – ok, it could also have incorrect use of contraception. But since Sarah was believes abstinence is the only way. I am reasonably confident they weren’t teach Bristol how to put on a condom.

    James (e07696)

  70. You’ve shown your true colors on this thread, James – before I thought you were just another ignorant Troll, albeit a fun one to slap around at times. But now I’m convinced you’re a scumbag. Wear the moniker proudly, and know that every time you comment here in the future you will be addressed as same.

    Got it, sweetheart?

    Dmac (874677)

  71. Methinks James is worthy of JD’s coveted award for personifying the nadir of Obamatards as an oozing, necrotic rectal fistula.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  72. That would be a compliment from my viewpoint. Just call him an asshole and be done with it.

    Dmac (874677)

  73. James – The more you type, the bigger of an asshat you become.

    JD (5f0e11)

  74. I’m not sure why the Left feels it necessary to keep talking about Palin’s children when Bambi hisself has stated that children are off limits.

    But feel free to pursue that strategery. It’s worked so well the past week – Palin’s favorables are now HIGHER than Bambi’s.

    “Please don’t throw me into that briar patch” – is a line from a story the Left has never read.

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  75. nk-#52 “Go right ahead. But a DailyKos, please? No one wants to see your pants-shitting hysterics, here.”

    Huh? No idea what you are saying here. candidate + tard is a stardard wonkette sort of name…. haw….wonkette….haw haw

    I could have said Palinbot but that just didn’t seem to fit.

    Dmac ?????! Yer comments just say “Dmac had nothing” if you want to slam someone study daleyrocks…(the example just above was servicable but definitely not Big D’s best) learn from the master.

    EdWood (d72c1f)

  76. #

    60 – I would agree that both McCain and Palin have great integrity. However, I think you learn more about people from their failures than their successes. I think the way Sarah Palin is handling Bristol’s pregnancy is admirable. Unless she shows some “movement” on the abstinence only policy she really looses a lot of credibility.

    Comment by James — 9/5/2008 @ 4:22 pm

    Aha, James. Went right where I thought you would. Stop for a minute, look at the numbers – not what you feel – and realize that neither abstinence only or birth-control sex-ed have about the same success rate, and it’s frankly pathetic. You know why? TEENAGERS ARE FREQUENTLY STUPID. I should know, I was one once. I’m reasonably certain the Palins are aware that nothing you do concerning it is 100% effective (including birth control devices properly applied). Abstinence, applied 100% of the time works, but again TEENAGERS ARE FREQUENTLY STUPID, so no guarantee of that.

    Jeff Weimer (2e2f26)

  77. Jeff #76 – exactly.

    James #68 – ok, it could also have incorrect use of contraception.

    Since you admit that it could have been an incorrect use of contraception, you must also admit that it could have been a failure of the correct use of contraception, as contraception is not 100% fail safe.

    Like so many commenters from the Obama/Biden campaign, your argument against Sarah Palin is nonsensical and self-contradictory.

    Your supposition depends on Palin simultaneously having complete control and insufficient control over her daughter. You argue that the pregnancy is a direct result of Palin teaching her daughter abstinence-only. This teaching is a ‘failure’, as you put it, because you insinuate (with no evidence) that Palin has also prevented her daughter from learning of contraception from any other sources, and has been 100% successful. Contradicting your insinuation, you also admit that the pregnancy could have resulted despite the use of contraception. Since you must admit that contraception isn’t perfect, you cancel your own argument with the admission that, even with the use of contraception, an unplanned pregnancy can occur. Does this make contraception a failure that should be abandoned?

    This is confused speculation on your part, and it begs credibility as you’ve somehow cast Sarah Palin as the only human to have communicated with her daughter. Your attack depends on the idea that no one else in her daughter’s life has communicated anything regarding sexual behavior. Strangely, you are uninterested in the daughter’s boyfriend or his family. You are also uninterested in what schools she attended and whether she received sex-ed in the school. You don’t seem to care whether or not she has access to the internet, or what television or movies she’s seen. But then again, none of those things are running as a Republican for national office.

    Your argument is meaningless. Why? Because there are far too many places for young adults to glean information regarding sex, even in far away Alaska.

    Abstinence-only education isn’t mind control, and it isn’t physical control. It says that if you do not have sex, you will not get pregnant. It works. Teenagers who do not have sex do not get pregnant. Anyone insinuating that there is a ‘lack’ of information regarding sex in today’s world is being extremely dishonest, as are the people making the false assertion that abstinence only is the attempt at preventing the knowledge of contraception. I would say that most commenters on this blog did not learn about sex from their parents, and the idea that any parent in today’s world can absolutely control the information flow to their children throughout their teen years is laughable. The hysterics from the left betray their collective dishonesty regarding the issue.

    Sarah Palin taught her daughter the right information. That is what mothers are supposed to do. Her daughter did not listen. A failure of the listener does not make the information any less valuable. It means the listener is human, and fallible. And loved, since Sarah Palin has embraced her daughter completely, which, in my opinion, makes her a great mother, and a great human being.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  78. “Yer comments just say “Dmac had nothing…”

    Courtship of Eddy’s Father, we’ve already established that your level of comprehension and grammar at best is quite abysmal – best keep those comments about content – worthy posts to yourself, lest you beclown yourself once again.

    And if you actually did possess a grade – school level of reading ability, you’d recognize that my problem with the aforementioned (look it up, Webster) Scumbag is in reference (I know, look it up again) to his amoral posturings here, not whether his leering and disgusting inquiries have any merit – because they don’t.

    It’s commonly described as calling out a commenter who’s crossed the line – is that clear enough for your poor little cranium to wrap it’s timing chain around, at long last?

    Please be sure to get right back to us after your daily Ritalin dosage.

    Dmac (874677)

  79. First we have this comment directed at our little boy, Eddy:

    “No one wants to see your pants-shitting hysterics, here.”

    To be followed with this devastating response:

    “Huh? No idea what you are saying here. candidate + tard is a stardard wonkette sort of name….”

    Beautiful repartee’ from a highly organized mind, no doubt. Quite breathtaking in it’s stupidity and incoherence. Keep trying, Eddy – the current residents of your last stay in the halfway house are all pulling for you!

    Dmac (874677)

  80. Furthering the argument of James the Crotch Sniffer, I’m sure he recognizes it is now his obligation to inform any parent who supports teaching birth control in sex education that has a child as a party to an unplanned pregnancy that they musy now switch camps and become supporters of abstinence only sex education. It’s yhe only logical conclusion to James the Vagina Viewer’s nonsensensical argument.

    Now send him to a teenage pooter porn site before his head explodes.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  81. “Palin more popular than McCain.” Why don’t you guys just come out and say it. PALIN/McCAIN 2008. Is it too late?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  82. Heh. Yeah. Man up, you googly-eyed stargazers. Make it official.

    Leviticus (41975c)

  83. All of a sudden, the Reps engage in a popularity contest. That is after trashing Obama’s celebrity status and trying to downplay it as another hype. Now Palin is “more popular” than McCain and Obama. Has it suddenly become good to be popular. It’s the oldest trick in the game of power: If you don’t/can’t have it, trash it. But once you have it, flaunt it.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  84. The problem for the Left is that Palin’s beauty contest was 28 years ago and Obama’s is now.

    nk (21731d)

  85. Haw haw haw NK check out the comments below. Now THOSE are what I call “pants shitting hysterics”.

    first Dmac-
    “..his amoral posturings here, not whether his leering and disgusting inquiries have any merit – because they don’t.

    It’s commonly described as calling out a commenter who’s crossed the line – is that clear enough for your poor little cranium to wrap it’s timing chain around, at long last?

    …Beautiful repartee’ from a highly organized mind, no doubt. Quite breathtaking in it’s stupidity and incoherence. Keep trying, Eddy – the current residents of your last stay in the halfway house are all pulling for you!”

    Comment by Dmac — 9/5/2008 @ 6:26 pm

    [daleyrocks #80 is next]
    “It’s yhe only logical conclusion to James the Vagina Viewer’s nonsensensical argument.

    Now send him to a teenage pooter porn site before his head explodes.”

    wwwwow. James, you sure know how to kick the ant pile.

    EdWood (8ff8fa)

  86. love and lev – There might be a slight difference between huge crowds before you hear what a politician says and after you hear what they say. Ask the crowd what they like about the candidates now, as opposed to what they liked about them 6 months ago. The popularity is now based on something other than appearances.

    There’s no arguing that the shift occurred once the ideas came into play. It’s platitudes versus specifics.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  87. Apogee #77

    Very nicely put. James is stuck on a single theme, and expects Sarah to totally 180 on abstinence because it (probably) did not “work” for her daughter. James appears to be 100% sure that abstinence is the wrong approach, as if it is no longer a debatable point. Which is 100% wrong – it is still a debatable point, and it is completely the decision of the parents. In the current context, it is a choice of a parent, not a policy to be debated. As such, it is nobody’s business.

    If Palin were pushing policy, then it might be fair game. But Palin doesn’t write the laws. There seems to be a lot of confusion over the functions of the Executive Branch of government in this country.

    john (5b3147)

  88. john #87 – sorry to edit you, but your last sentence should read: There seems to be a lot of confusion.

    There’s so many basics they’re confused about before even getting to the functions of the Executive Branch,

    Apogee (366e8b)

  89. oops. posted by mistake.

    …, that getting even halfway to that subject would be a huge educational victory.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  90. john – And James’ other major assumption is that parents have absolute complete total control over their kids 24/7 and if they tell them not to do something and they do it anyway, like have sex, it is a failure in parenting. Doesn’t sound like James has had any parenting esperience of his own.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  91. Clearyl the Republicans are running Sarah Palin for President. JoHn McCain is just a pass-around prop like Trig Palin.

    Dimwitted drunks who say things like this obviously want her to win, considering it’s precisely this type of unprovoked attack against her children that has rallied people to her.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  92. Ehrenstein, ESQ. –

    JoHn McCain is just a pass-around prop like Trig Palin.

    — Says the pass-around prop from Sullivan’s last toga party.

    Icy Truth (5b3d64)

  93. Love, I do like that you’re around. Really. You were very gracious in apologizing to Stashiu recently.

    I want to correct something. Bambi parades ONLY on his popularity. He is “about” change. He hasn’t actually done anything. (Please. List his accomplishments, not his titles.)

    Palin is popular, yes, but it’s not just because of her persona. It’s because of WHAT SHE HAS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED. Not just her titles.

    Bambi is all about the stage prop. That’s why the line about the “Styrofoam Greek columns” cut so well and so deep.

    Palin has done many things. And, some of them weren’t blockbuster hits. But, she has DONE something.

    Bambi? “Voting ‘Present’ today, sir!” “Above my paygrade” “Stop calling me black”

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  94. James –

    I have trouble with anyone who thinks creationism is science.
    — What changes in the classroom do you think she will be able to enact?

    by not changing her “abstinence only” stance after her teenage daughter got pregnant, shows she is ignoring the Parental role in not preventing a teen pregnancy.
    — “not preventing”, Mr. Double-Negative? Or are you saying that the only responsible stance to take is “abstinence, but if you’re going to have sex use protection”? And how do you know that that isn’t exactly what she did teach her daughter but the advice was ignored? Something that unwise kids do all the time.

    By saying “Kids Make mistakes”, She has dumped full responsibility on a 17 year old and not acknowledged that she could have made a difference and by changing her actions it might have been prevented it.
    — Do you think that even once Bristol has thought of saying to her mother, “It’s your fault that I’m pregnant”? The idea that because there is this magical line-in-the-sand, the legally defined age barrier of 18, that anyone below that line has no personal responsibility for their actions is ludicrous.

    Sure, it is a private matter, but it shows me that She believes she is right regardless of the outcome. Which is not a trait I want in a politician.
    — That’s an incredibly naive view of how things work in the real world.

    I REALLY want to have her answer the question “What kind of sexual education did you provide for your Daughter? and how has her pregnancy changed your beliefs?”
    — To which her answers would probably be “none of your business” and “they haven’t changed at all”.

    An Intelligent person after seeing something undesirable happen, evaluates their actions and changes their policies.
    — An intelligent and wise person understands that raising children is a balancing act between sheltering them from the bad things in this world and allowing them to develop their own personalities and sense of self.

    John McCain has proven time and time again he will tackle difficult problems, admits when things aren’t working and changes his policies. Obama gives glimpses of this but frankly he hasn’t done enough to be certain.
    — If your assertion is that she is a total ideologue and is incapable of being pragmatic on any issue, this one incident is hardly proof of that.

    The things I have learned about Sarah Palin from her response to Bristol’s pregnancy. 1) She ignores her parental role in the raising of her child. Will she ignore her role as VP when bad things happen? “Gee! Cabinet Members make mistakes, I just can’t control them!”.
    — What an ugly charge to make. If the child makes one significant mistake the parent is a total failure? Sorry, that’s too high of a standard where human frailties and human emotions are involved. And the apples to rocks comparison with cabinet members is pathetically silly.

    2) She has not openly changed her actions/policies based on a relevant personal traumatic undesirable event. This leads me to believe that she can not see cause-and-effect and will not change/evaluate her opinions even when a faced with a poor outcome. Which is a flaw we can not afford to have in our Government.
    — Translation: she did not share your views on the subject in the first place. By the standard you are professing, one individual failure means the program itself is a failure. I hate to burst your bubble but there are thousands of girls who receive birth control information in their sex education classes/parental involvement, and who still wind up pregnant. Who is responsible for the failure to prevent pregnancy in those cases? [Hee hee! I said “bubble but”.]

    Until Sarah Palin says “I screwed up with Bristol, this is what I did and this is how I will do it differently in the future”, I am left with these assumptions.
    — Maybe she should call a press conference and, right there in front of everybody, teach Piper to roll a condom onto a banana.

    We can say “AA doesn’t work for everyone!” And if enough AA members continue to fall off the wagon we should evaluate the AA program and change it for the better. Because that is what intelligent people do!
    — Intelligent people realize that, despite the best of intentions and the hardest of work, you simply cannot save everybody. Some people become alcoholics because they forget this; some cops commit suicide because they forget this. It is unreasonable and NOT intelligent to expect perfection from imperfect people. It is also part of the liberal secularist religion as reflected in their policy language: “eliminate” poverty and homelessness, not the more realistic term “reduce”.

    Nice way to shrug off parental responsibility and throw two 17 year old kids under the bus.
    — How is this throwing them under the bus? Unless you’re saying that Sarah should totally renounce her beliefs and should have offered the abortion option.

    I think JLS and Bristol are exactly the same! They are products of Parents that didn’t give their children the knowledge to protect themselves in an adult world.
    — 1) You do not know what knowledge they were or were not given. 2) Thanks for the sort of backhanded admission that someone who is old enough to become pregnant might, just might, bear some of the burden of responsibility in that area.

    But for 2 completely different reasons, Sarah Palin because of her religion and Lynn Spears because she was completely negligent. I am of course guessing about Sarah Palin since she refuses to talk about it.
    — You’re guessing in both cases, just like the good tabloid reporter you aspire to be, complete with the arrogance that Gov. Palin owes you an explanation.

    I think every voter should ask themselves: “Do these Candidates acknowledge and learn from her mistakes?” and unless Sarah Palin addresses the Issue of Bristol’s pregnancy. The only answer I have for this is no.
    — In that case, you are the one making the mistake.

    As far as Biden’s son is concerned, If Biden had a public position that was relevant to the subject of his son’s fraud (like Palin’s sex education policies) then yes we should discuss it as well.
    — A public position such as . . . oh say, his oath of office?

    So ability to learn from your mistakes is not relevant to governing?
    — It is relevant. So is the ability to recognize that you cannot save the world, just make it better while you are here.

    To stay with the simple facts:
    1) Sarah Palin was an abstinence only politician
    2) Her minor child has an unplanned pregnancy out of marriage.
    3) Sarah Palin is still an abstinence only politician.

    — Another simple fact: minor children that receive birth control education get pregnant as well.

    let’s take the sex out of it, For Example:
    1) The New Orleans Mayor is not if favor of spending more money on New Orleans levies.
    2) Katrina hits and flooding the city, killing thousands, and costing billions of dollars.
    3) New Orleans Mayor is still not if favor of spending more money on New Orleans levies.

    — Let’s take the analogy out of it, since one is an apple and the other is a rock.

    I don’t WANT to think Sarah Palin is incapable of changing her mind when faced with situation. but right now she hasn’t given me (as a voter any reason to think otherwise).
    — 1) There’s no need to change your mind when you made the right decision the first time. 2) Instead of dwelling on this one issue, why don’t you investigate her legislative record and see if you like her previous decisions?

    Start will the stupid name call!
    — Stupid.

    Do you even know if the Palin parents impose their views on their kids or let them come to their own decisions. You don’t even know that basic do you?
    — Isn’t that what we have been asking you?

    A simple analysis
    1) Teen Pregnancy often leads to poverty and lack of education.
    2) low education and poverty are not good for America.

    — A simple response: nobody said that teen pregnancy is something to aspire to; nobody, including Sarah Palin, said that there are no challenges involved.

    I appreciate the actually commentary instead of the childish name calling.
    — That’s a childish statement.

    The article was sort of all over the place. It started with the point that “teen pregnancy is irrelevant” but never explains why.
    — Probably because the only use of the word “irrelevant” in the entire thread (prior to this one) is in your posts.

    it covers that the VP is picked for political reasons not governing reasons. I think that is a terrible way to select a VP.
    — In reality, of course, it is a bit of both.

    I want the VP able to add something positive to the Administration and capable to take over if the President dies.
    — Don’t worry, she will.

    It obviously was not “caused” by her policy. It was caused by unprotected sex. However, her policy was “in effect” when her daughter got pregnant. And given that her policy was intended to prevent her daughter from getting pregnant, I can conclude that it was a complete failure or at most 66% effective if the other two don’t get pregnant. Of course, seeing their sister as a mother might impact it more than anything Sarah can say.
    — So it wasn’t the cause . . . but it was . . . but it wasn’t . . . but it might be . . . but there’s a possible silver lining to this cloud, if she can serve as a poster child to the rest of the family . . . and maybe the rest of the country . . . possibly the world!

    We MUST elect Sarah Palin, for the sake of humanity!!!

    If Europe had not practiced appeasement would it have prevented WW II? No one knows. All we do know is, Europe tried appeasement and WW II happened.
    — Pat Buchanan knows. He says that it was the abandonment of appeasement in favor of confrontation that caused WWII. Jeez! Can’t you even get your analogies right?

    I think you learn more about people from their failures than their successes.
    — I think you learn more about people from their triumphs over adversity; but then, you have your cliches and I have mine.

    I think the way Sarah Palin is handling Bristol’s pregnancy is admirable.
    — I win the bet, everybody! He was capable of saying one thing that is completely true.

    Unless she shows some “movement” on the abstinence only policy she really looses a lot of credibility.
    — Only because it ‘failed’? or only because you’re pro-choice?

    I don’t care about her kids.
    — No shit?

    Icy Truth (5b3d64)

  95. Or are you saying that the only responsible stance to take is “abstinence, but if you’re going to have sex use protection”?

    Yes, I think that is the more practical and gives people the information required to make their own decisions.

    And how do you know that that isn’t exactly what she did teach her daughter but the advice was ignored?

    Because of the following: 2006 questionnaire, the soon-to-be governor (Sarah Palin) said she would fund abstinence-only education programs in schools. “The explicit sex-ed programs,” she added, “will not find my support.” Link. So it is fair to say Sarah wasn’t demonstrating condoms at home. If Sarah was teaching contraception at home with a this public position, I would find it more disturbing.

    Unless she shows some “movement” on the abstinence only policy she really looses a lot of credibility.
    – Only because it ‘failed’?

    Not just because if failed but because it failed and Sarah (for all we know) didn’t learn from the mistake.

    I am not sure why Pro-life/Pro-choice really is part of the discussion. I never suggested that a person who wants to keep a child shouldn’t have the right to do so. Bristol (theoretically) had a choice and she made it.

    James (f7470d)

  96. Yes, I think that is the more practical and gives people the information required to make their own decisions.
    — And while I personally might agree with you on that, it doesn’t mean that someone who chooses a different path is wrong.

    So it is fair to say Sarah wasn’t demonstrating condoms at home.
    — That might be true, but we don’t know.

    If Sarah was teaching contraception at home with a this public position, I would find it more disturbing.
    — Why? because it is the responsibility of the state, through its instrument of the school system, to be a surrogate parent? Since when are the schools supposed to teach kids everything about life? Do not parents still bear some of the responsibility — especially in the area of morals and values — for instructing their offspring and giving them the tools they need to have happy successful lives?

    Not just because if failed but because it failed and Sarah (for all we know) didn’t learn from the mistake.
    — Exactly. You’re holding up the one mistake as proof that the policy itself is a complete failure. By that logic sex-education that includes contraception should be deemed a failure as well, as it does not have a 100% success rate, even in homes where the parents reinforce the teaching of contraception. What is the mistake made by the parents in those cases? not fitting their daughter with a chastity belt? allowing her to leave the house? not interrogating her every time she comes home? Unless you wrap your kids in bubble-wrap and dump them in the basement they’re going to make mistakes.

    I am not sure why Pro-life/Pro-choice really is part of the discussion. I never suggested that a person who wants to keep a child shouldn’t have the right to do so. Bristol (theoretically) had a choice and she made it.
    — And I never suggested that you suggested such a thing. However, are you saying that you disagree with Obama’s “I don’t want them to be punished with a baby” stance? that you don’t echo Cybill Shepherd, who questions whether Bristol was allowed the choice of abortion? You know, as a means of rectifying her mother’s mistake.

    Icy Truth (8ecfb1)

  97. If Sarah was teaching contraception at home with a this public position, I would find it more disturbing.
    – Why? because it is the responsibility of the state, through its instrument of the school system, to be a surrogate parent? Since when are the schools supposed to teach kids everything about life? Do not parents still bear some of the responsibility — especially in the area of morals and values — for instructing their offspring and giving them the tools they need to have happy successful lives?

    The reason it bothers me is that It shows a what-is-good-enough-for-you-is-not-good-enough-for-me attitude. I think the same thing about politicians sending their kids to private schools. I think Obama does and that pisses me off too.

    But after reading the LA times article, where She stated I am for “Abstinence only” and and a few weeks later she was “pro contraception”. I am wondering if Sarah Palin is just telling people what they want to hear. Which is common for a politician.

    Putting me back in the plight of the Independent. I know that 50% of what the politicians are saying is lies. But have no way to determine which 50%.

    James (f7470d)

  98. I have to agree about Palin’s popularity–the question is what people like about her:

    A) her scintillating insights and creative use of grammar.

    B) her spectacular wardrobe and hair

    C) her seemingly inexhaustable ability to make us laugh

    Her latest appearance on Saturday Night Live has already generated 1,575,000 views alone on just one site on the internet since Friday:

    http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-thursday-bush-endorsement/783981/

    Have a good chuckle guys!

    EPluribusUnum (01935e)

  99. Apparently my enthusiasm for Sarah Palin is not shared by one of McCain’s advisors though–He told CNN:

    Sarah Palin is a Diva. She takes no advice from anyone. She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember, divas trust only unto themselves, as they see themselves the beginning and end of all wisdom.

    Pretty harsh words there.

    The man is obviously jealous of Palin’s superior executive experience.

    EPluribusUnum (01935e)

  100. Somebody forgot to put the plank back in the doggy door.

    Another Drew (cdf426)

  101. Hey Another Drew–

    You mean your pooch came in and pissed all over your carpet–just like the McCain advisor just pissed all over Sarah Palin??????

    EPluribusUnum (01935e)

  102. Does anyone have a more recent Rasmussen report on Palin’s “popularity” among voters?

    If not, here’s the one from October 13, 2008:

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/voters_think_more_of_biden_than_palin

    EPluribusUnum (01935e)


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