Patterico's Pontifications

9/3/2008

Who Said This??

Filed under: General — WLS @ 12:46 pm



Posted by WLS: 

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

Sarah Palin of course.  Over at TPMElectionCentral, Eric Kleefeld concludes “Sarah Palin clearly doesn’t have a problem mixing politics and religion.”

But, who said this:

“Lord — Protect my family and me… Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will.”

Barack Obama — Wailing Wall note left 7/24/08.

Again, the duplicity of the press is on display.

33 Responses to “Who Said This??”

  1. I hope that you pointed out this fact to Kleefeld. [I used to post at TPM Election Central all the time; and then I stopped by here one day. . . .]

    Icy Truth (614178)

  2. This has always made me chuckle, the overt and absolute bullshite that the Left pukes up every time a Republican references religion. If you changed the name from Baracky to George Bush, in the many overtly religious statements he has made, the Left would be shreiking THEOCRACY from the mountaintop.

    JD (75f5c3)

  3. WLS, would you post the link, please?

    Dana (b4a26c)

  4. Ah, but Obama’s prayer was supposed to be secret, just between him and his maker, (He or She, as the case may be) , and just happened to leak out into the press accidentally, not on purpose, by accident, doncha know.

    While Palin is clearly a dangerous Bible-thumping God-botherer who’s intent on establishing a theocratic AmeriKKKa as a prelude to the Rapture.

    DelD (873698)

  5. Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

    Another Drew (e5e29b)

  6. There’s a difference between asking God to be make you an instrument of His will (really, isn’t that a pretty standard prayer?) and claiming a specific policy or occurrence is God’s will. For an extreme example, see Jerry Falwell claiming 9/11 was the fault of social liberals or John Hagee claiming Katrina was the fault of the gays.

    One is being a Christian (as I understand it, anyway) and the other is using God as your personal sockpuppet.

    Russell (da1856)

  7. Yeh, I guess all of those appeals to God by our Military Leaders in war (George Patton, anyone?) is just beyond the pale.
    The only thing that makes the Left more uncomfortable than the Christian Religion, is debating someone who has facts at their disposal.

    Another Drew (e5e29b)

  8. Yeh, I guess all of those appeals to God by our Military Leaders in war (George Patton, anyone?) is just beyond the pale.

    Link?

    Russell (da1856)

  9. THEOCRATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get your God out of my uterus !!!!!!!!!1eleventy!

    JD (75f5c3)

  10. Russell – Good use of the word sockpuppet. Now, if you would just quit making shit up.

    JD (75f5c3)

  11. If Palin’s statement stands as is then she sounds like either a religious person in government engaging in a little pro-troops propaganda (nothing wrong with that during a war) or like a religious idealogue who thinks our troops are on a crusade and that God blesses our wars, ie. injecting her religious beliefs into the political sphere, which this country needs like a hole in the economy.

    Obama’s statement was private (a letter?!!) and appears to be a religious person asking God for guidance. Nothing to do directly with the political sphere at all.

    The statements are not the same.

    Is Kleefeld duplicitous because Palin wasn’t advocating a state sponsored religion and therefore her statement was not a Church-State issue?

    Or because he took Palin’s statement out of context (what WAS the context?).

    Or because he didn’t treat Palin’s and Obama’s statements as equal examples of injecting religion into government?

    EdWood (c2268a)

  12. Just on a philosophical note, does anybody else find these kind of prayers rather paradoxical? Does anybody really think God’s sitting around waiting, thinking “hmmm . . . I’d love to guide the U.S. troops to victory in Iraq, but I haven’t heard enough American’s ask me to do so yet.” (or even crazier — “well, I was going to let the terrorists win, but those Americans’ prayers were really persuasive”)

    As for Obama’s prayer, is God saying “I’d like to use Barak Obama to . . . change things . . . but I’ll have to wait until he sticks a prayer in the wailing wall.”

    A human being asking God to make sure that events and people “follow his plan,” or asking god to “make me an instrument of your will”? Essentially they’re saying “God, please do what you were going to do anyway.”

    Can you imagine how annoying such prayers would be to a supreme being if he was really listening?

    Now, a simple “thy will be done” prayer, I guess I can understand. Such prayers are calming to the person praying, allowing them to accept any outcome as the product of something higher than mere chance.

    But there’s still an egotistical irony to them — the person praying can have the self-satisfied belief that things turned out the way they did because they asked God to do his will.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  13. Can you imagine how annoying such prayers would be to a supreme being if he was really listening?

    Phil, bless your heart, you really have no idea about the concept of prayer, do you? I suggest you visit a religious bookstore — or even check-out the religion section at your local Barnes & Noble or Borders — and learn a little bit about it before making such a uninformed comment.

    JVW (d54fc4)

  14. Phil, bless your heart, you really have no idea about the concept of prayer, do you?

    JVW, I was raised a fundamentalist christian, church every weekend, regular bible studies; undertook my own investigation into various religious traditions during high school; and took several religion courses in college. I also continue to be interested in and investigate religious ideas and beliefs on a regular basis.

    That doesn’t make me exactly expert on religion, but how much do you have to know to have some “idea about the concept of prayer”? And if I don’t have enough background to have some idea of the concept, what background do Palin and Obama have that I don’t?

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  15. “Link?”

    Russell, the fact that you even have to request a source regarding Patton’s entreaties towards his chaplain to pray for good weather (in order to help our air force support the troops on the ground during the Battle of the Bulge) proves what an ignoramus you truly are:

    http://www.pattonhq.com/prayer.html

    Before you continue to post the kind of fabricated horse manure we’ve already seen here, try to bone up on your own country’s history first. You must have missed the introductory classes on American history during your intensive chemical and science studies, apparently.

    Dmac (874677)

  16. Prayer is not the problem

    Saying Iraq is “god’s will” is the problem

    Again, your implicit support of Palin: noted.

    Anonytroll (edae44)

  17. Phil, as to your experience with religion let me offer this analogy: You can live on a golf course, go out and drive balls four times a week, practice your putting and chipping three times a week, play 18 holes every other day, and still be a crappy golfer. That’s just the way it is. Sorry to hear your experience with religion has left you cynical about prayer, but I think you will find that a lot of us are just going to have to disagree with you.

    JVW (d54fc4)

  18. “Palin is mixing God and Politics”. Well that statement is a bit of a stretch, but her prayer does involve America and pleads for God to be on our side. She is praying that our plan is God’s plan.

    Obama’s is a personal prayer.

    Trying to label Obama and his supporters as Hypocrites is a long stretch WLS.

    Oiram (983921)

  19. EdWood — you are viewing her statement through the prism of anti-religious bigotry.

    Evangelical Christians pray for guidance in the way they live their lives. They do not pretend to know “What God Wants.” They simply hope and pray that their decision-making, guided by their faith and belief, reflects God’s will. The alternative, in their view, is to selfishly pursue the things that make them happy while believing it is not a course God would want them to pursue.

    Lets look at Palin’s statement — which was made orally and not with the ability to pen with perfect grammer and syntax.

    “Pray for our military … who are striving to do what is right. Also … that our … national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God.”

    Now Obama:

    “Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will.”

    Saying “leaders sending them out on a task that is from God” is no different than Obama, saying “make me an instrument of your will”, i.e., that his judgments and decisions — such as deploying troops into conflict — reflect that which God would want him to do.

    An anti-religious bigot would read Palin’s statement to be some kind of call to a “crusade” –using that term as a synonym for subjegation. But that’s not what an Evangelical Christian means.

    A bigot would be correct in his understanding if the troops were being sent to Iraq or Afghanistan to lay waste to the country, and loot, pilage, and convert the population to Christianity under threat of death — you know, sort of like the radical Islamists do.

    But Dems don’t seem to understand them either. Evangelical Christians are to be feared, but radical Islamists are simply misuderstood.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  20. “Obama’s statement was private (a letter?!!)…”

    Nice try, except The Messiah’s “private letter” was subsequently immediately leaked to the MSM directly after he placed it on the Wailing Wall. Gee, what are the odds that someone in his own campaign did that unfortunate and completely surprising action? Couple that with the reality of Obama’s problems with Reverend Wright and the “bitter, clingy, gun – owning religious” folks (not to mention his alarming views on Palestine), and I’m shocked (shocked!) that such a thing happened. No one in Israel was buying that shameless stunt, they’ve seen it all before.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127001

    Keep shoveling, Eddy, that grave’s only getting bigger for you.

    Dmac (874677)

  21. Phil 2:01

    Yes. I firmly believe that God has guided the United States, in particular, and granted her more bountiful blessings than any other nation.

    But this nation hasn’t exactly followed a plan that He designed, huh? I’ll give you the treatment (murder) of the indigenous Indians as just one example.

    So….does this mean we just abandon the Judeo-Christian principles that created the fact of American exceptionalism? Do we, as citizens, stop proclaiming our truth as we see it?

    I’ll tell you what, Phil. The day the U.S. seeks to enter an entirely unjust, unrighteous war, I will scream out against such. You want to argue that our interventions in Kosovo, Kuwait, Grenada, Saddam, Inc. (aka Iraq), were not morally just? Go for it.

    Ed (f35a20)

  22. Phil 2:01

    Yes. I firmly believe that God has guided the United States, in particular, and granted her more bountiful blessings than any other nation.

    But this nation hasn’t exactly followed a plan that He designed, huh? I’ll give you the treatment (murder) of many indigenous Indians as just one example.

    So….does this mean we just abandon the Judeo-Christian principles that created the fact of American exceptionalism? Do we, as citizens, stop proclaiming our truth as we see it?

    I’ll tell you what, Phil. The day the U.S. seeks to enter an entirely unjust, unrighteous war, I will scream out against such. You want to argue that our interventions in Kosovo, Kuwait, Grenada, Saddam, Inc. (aka Iraq), were not morally just? Go for it.

    Ed (f35a20)

  23. :)

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  24. Below is an excerpt from Franklin Roosevelt’s prayer broadcast on June 6, 1944 as American, British, and Canadian troops landed in Normandy.

    Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

    Read or listen to the entire prayer here.

    Stu707 (7fb2e7)

  25. Sorry to hear your experience with religion has left you cynical about prayer, but I think you will find that a lot of us are just going to have to disagree with you.

    Hey, I’m talking about one particular prayer here — a prayer for God to do “his will.” I’m not criticizing prayer in general. I have the utmost respect for a sincere outreach toward the divine.

    I just don’t understand how either of the above prayers are any kind of actual attempt to communicate with the divine, because of how they’re worded in a hedge-all-bets manner. They’re saying “God, I give you permission to do whatever you’re going to do.” Which then allows them to sit back and nod knowingly, whatever happens, saying “yeah, I told God to do that.”

    In the case of our country, it allows us to “pray that our plan is God’s plan” and then, however bungled/wrongheaded/misdirected our war turns out to be, “that was God’s plan.”

    Or, in the case of Obama, he gets to wander around feeling like he’s an “instrument of God’s will” no matter how much his socialist policies are screwing up the country.

    Phil (3b1633)

  26. I just don’t understand how either of the above prayers are any kind of actual attempt to communicate with the divine, because of how they’re worded in a hedge-all-bets manner. They’re saying “God, I give you permission to do whatever you’re going to do.” Which then allows them to sit back and nod knowingly, whatever happens, saying “yeah, I told God to do that.”

    Nice. Reminds me of a Carlin bit I like:

    I’ve often thought people treat God rather rudely, don’t you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It’s not nice. And it’s no way to treat a friend.

    But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation, your brother was arrested. But most of all, you really like that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

    Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and screw up Your Plan?

    And here’s something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing.

    Russell (da1856)

  27. Some people on the left, particularly in the media or blogosphere, have consistently had a difficult time digesting statements including any expressions of spirituality. Ridiculous fears of “right wing religionists” keep popping up based on frothing imaginations that haven’t borne fruit in spite of 25 years of anxiety.

    One of the most overblown recent examples was when people misinterpreted a Bush comment to mean that Bush claimed that God told him to invade Iraq.

    What a bunch of putzes!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  28. WLS #19, you are looking at my statement through the prism of WLS needing to be “right” all the time.

    I asked for context which you declined to give so… Palin’s prayer was overheard at church? Praying at an Alaskan governmental function? When? You still don’t provide the context in your response. You also didnt answer my question.

    If her prayer was in a public setting then I stand by my statement. It is either propaganda in the “God is on our side” vein, or it is a prayer for aid to righteous soldiers doing “Gods” work. I suppose there are some evangelical Christians who think that war is “Gods” work but I don’t know any of them. The Evangelicals that I know think that THEY are doing Gods work by living righteously, witnessing their faith, and spreading the Good News.

    To me sending soldiers to a foreign country peopled by muslims to do “Gods” work could be seen as fanatical. I didn’t say Palin WAS a fanatic, I said she MAY be a fanatic… then asked about the context of the prayer.

    WLS #19, you are looking at my statement through the prism of WLS needing to be “right” all the time.

    I asked for context which you declined to give so… Palin’s prayer was overheard at church? Praying at an Alaskan governmental function? When? You still don’t provide the context in your response. You also didnt answer my question.

    If her prayer was in a public setting then I stand by my statement. It is either propaganda in the “God is on our side” vein, or it is a prayer for aid to righteous soldiers doing “Gods” work. I suppose there are some evangelical Christians who think that war is “Gods” work but I don’t know any of them. The Evangelicals that I know think that THEY are doing Gods work by living righteously, witnessing their faith, and spreading the Good News.

    To me sending soldiers to a foreign country peopled by muslims to do “Gods” work could be seen as fanatical. I didn’t SAY Palin was a fanatic, I said she MAY be a fanatic… then asked about the context of the prayer.

    I CAN recognize bigotry when I see it though, a good example of bigotry follows below

    “But Dems don’t seem to understand them [radical Islamists] either. Evangelical Christians are to be feared, but radical Islamists are simply misuderstood.”

    What a ridculous assumption to make, that a person’s political affiliation has anything to do with their relationship with God, or their perceptions of “Evangelicals”.

    EdWood (4a0e7b)

  29. #20 Thanks for supplying the context of Obama’s letter Dmac, I was wondering how Obama’a prayer got intercepted and published.

    I would reply to the rest of your comment but it was sort of incoherent. Rant much Dmac?

    EdWood (4a0e7b)

  30. #24 That is exactly what I meant by a religious person using public prayer for very useful and necessary propaganda purposes. Who knows what Roosevelts private prayers were like on that same day? Praying in public was done for the citizens of the country.

    EdWood (4a0e7b)

  31. “Rant much Dmac?”

    Read much, Ed?

    Dmac (874677)

  32. THEOCRATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    JD (75f5c3)

  33. THEOCONS !!! Theocracy !!!

    JD (75f5c3)


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