Patterico's Pontifications

9/3/2008

Holy Moley

Filed under: 2008 Election — Patterico @ 7:45 pm

We knew Sarah Palin’s speech would be good, but this is really, really, really good.

UPDATE: You know what? If she can endure what the media and the Internet has thrown at her over the last few days — with the phony rumors about her child, the intrusion into her family, the phony bikini photos, the phony videos of her husband, the lies and the sexism and the derision and the snickering — if she can endure that, and give a speech like that, with that confident, smiling delivery . . . we have nothing to worry about.

Nothing at all.

244 Responses to “Holy Moley”

  1. I mean really good.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  2. She’s got a very fresh way that does have that fake folksy style of Biden’s, or the overly flowerly version of Obama’s. It will be refreshing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  3. Argggg. No typing gud today.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  4. Come on, Patterico, tell us how you really feel.

    Russell (da1856)

  5. JD, Ya gotta tell me — has Matthews had to use the paddles to revive Olbermann yet?

    Icy Truth (614178)

  6. She’s got to have Olbermann in tears of despair watching this. I’ve only had it on for about 5 minutes and its stunning.

    This is a “culture” war — the war of the culture of Washington against the culture of the rest of the country. McCain has found an ideological soulmate.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  7. That is one very special lady.

    Old Coot (62fd89)

  8. Biden is pissing his Depends right now.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  9. Her little girl holding her youngest is the most moving picture I’ve seen yet from either convention. There are people here in front of the TV with me who have wet eyes.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  10. Piper Rules!

    Icy Truth (614178)

  11. She rocks.

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  12. “Authored two books, but not even one law or reform, not even in the state senate.”

    Boom.

    Headshot.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  13. Anyone counting the # of Standing O’s?

    Another Drew (85d510)

  14. Wonder how Obama’s walking right now with that patent-leather pump up his ass.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  15. What was that, “people who have always been proud of America?” Ouch. Michelle, is your nose bleeding?

    quiescere (beb685)

  16. Amazing presence and great delivery; but the best is her message and material. She SHOULD be President!

    Marty Farty (34813e)

  17. The pump’s not too bad, but that heel has really got to hurt.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  18. Take a moment to go over to Sullivan’s blog and read his live-blogging comments.

    Unbelieveable. The guy is so invested in someone who will validate his marriage to his husband, he’s completely unglued. Even the idea of maybe losing has him completely unhinged.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  19. Marty…
    Just wait.
    All good things come to he who waits.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  20. This is the kind of speech writing we’ve been waiting for from the McCain / Palin campaign.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  21. Don’t forget, clean coal also comes from Illinois…

    This is the political speech version of what Patton called “hold them by the nose and kick them in the ass”.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  22. Uh, Scott…Do you have a link for that???
    <<>>

    Another Drew (85d510)

  23. what, clean coal from illinois?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  24. “Only one man in this election who has ever fought for you”

    GO GO GO GO GO

    Another Drew (85d510)

  25. She just mentioned a new family business and taxes.

    I remember Obama saying in his speech that he was going to eliminate the capital gains tax for start-up businesses.

    I scratched my head wondering why a start-up would benefit from a cut in the capital gains tax? Start-ups don’t have any capital gains to tax.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  26. She’s gonna take Biden behind the woodshed and kick his old white guy shriveled butt from here to Alaska. I can’t wait. Whoever hung the “Barracuda” moniker on her sure was right.

    Marty Farty (34813e)

  27. sORRY, No…re Patton
    just being snarky for a previous remark of another party.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  28. Check out Andrew Sullivan’s live-blogging. I’m not making this up:

    10.49 pm. Piper is poking Trig in the eye!

    Words fail. I’m slack jawed.

    Slack jawed.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  29. The guy is so invested in someone who will validate his marriage to his husband, he’s completely unglued. Even the idea of maybe losing has him completely unhinged.

    I think he’s a little pissed that she can HAVE kids.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  30. “There are some who use change to promote their careers. John McCain will use his career to promote change.”

    – I think that’s called an Alaskan-bitch-slap; and just like the regular kind, the bitch is on the receiving end.

    – Are they watching this? She kicks Harry Reid’s ass in one sentence, and smacks Obama and Biden together in the next!

    Icy Truth (614178)

  31. And by Piper he means Sarah, and by Trig he means the entire democratic party!

    Marty Farty (34813e)

  32. Patterico, Sullivan found a way to “sully” one of the most moving images from this evening.

    Slime.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  33. Wow.

    Teflon Don (736f11)

  34. Piper wasn’t poking Trig in the eye; she was wetting a finger and slicking his hair down! What a useless waste of space Sullivan is. No scruples. No morals. Just a waste.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  35. #28 – Andrew who?

    Dana (084de8)

  36. #28 – Andrew who?

    I dunno. Some moron who was just proved wrong.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  37. The little girl is absolutely adorable on stage now.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  38. I can see it now: Olbermann – “The claws came out, tonight.”
    Matthews – “She was downright mean.”
    Obama – “G-d McCain!”
    Biden – “Shit!”
    Sullivan – “Gimme dirt! I need MORE dirt!”

    Icy Truth (614178)

  39. TD!!! How are you, man???

    She’s a heck of a speaker, ain’t she?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  40. By the way, I’ve had the honor of meeting Matthew Scully, the guy who wrote that amazing speech.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  41. She rocks!

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  42. Olbermann thinks she was “insulting” and “condescending”. Gawd I hate that guy.

    Marty Farty (34813e)

  43. “The speech that Governor Palin was well delivered, but it was written by George Bush’s speechwriter and sounds exactly like the same divisive, partisan attacks we’ve heard from George Bush for the last eight years. If Governor Palin and John McCain want to define ‘change’ as voting with George Bush 90% of the time, that’s their choice, but we don’t think the American people are ready to take a 10% chance on change,” said Bill Burton, Obama Campaign Spokesman.

    jharp (e854b0)

  44. Patterico, you see him again, you punch him in the shoulder for me. Great work, came off in her style without any seams.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  45. I’ve been good. I’m a lot better after this… I might go ahead with a slightly political post on the ‘ol blog tomorrow. :P

    Teflon Don (736f11)

  46. shoulder punch? Hell, buy that man a beer!

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  47. I see that jharp is still bitter, and small.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  48. Sorry, jharp….didn’t see the quotes…
    Bill Burton is not even small.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  49. Who let the drunk into the room? He’s puking talking points all over the floor.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  50. jharp, you copied that garbage?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  51. Who now… A blog post?

    Don’t go do nothin’ crazy man… :)

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  52. Always remember that “Not Present” is Obama’s most common vote for “change”.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  53. Who let the drunk into the room? He’s puking talking points all over the floor.

    Thanks alot, Icy. Jack Klompus made me wreck my keyboard two days ago. Now I gotta replace it yet again!

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  54. Teflon Don,

    Ghosts of Winter – an almost unbearable thing of beauty. Compliments.

    Dana (084de8)

  55. Phenomenal.

    That lady has been the subject of enormous attacks and criticism, and she came off as “oh, yeah, that. I guess if you’re a man, that might bother you. But I’m a hockey mom with five kids. Give me something a littler harder than that.”

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  56. Amazing. She managed the impossible, she made me want to vote for McCain.

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  57. You’re welcome, Paul. ;-)

    Icy Truth (614178)

  58. Wow…who’d a thunk it?

    She missed the perfect closing line…”See you at the debates, Bitches”

    mjn1957 (6e1275)

  59. Wolf Blitzer – A star is born!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  60. Awesome!

    Just when we thought we were doomed to be run by a couple of dynasty families, this Woman from Nowhere arrives, a breath of fresh air, and redefines politics and populism.

    I agree, j curtis, I’m ready to vote and give money to the ticket.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  61. #43

    we don’t think the American people are ready to take a 10% chance on change,” said Bill Burton

    I’m not sure who’s rating the chance of change with the O!bamessiah that high, but a 1 in ten chance of change with an empty suit, South side Chicago Machine pol sure seems like pretty damn optimistic odds to me…

    EW1(SG) (353db4)

  62. Mr. “I wrote two memoirs, but have failed to pass any legislation” Senator from Illinois.

    That’s going to leave a mark.

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  63. Palin: Delivers an excellent speech with poise, humor and charm in pursuit of the Vice Presidency in front of her proud family and supporters in the moment of her lifetime.

    jharp: Copies and pastes a canned statement from the Obama campaign amidst a group of people enjoying a fine performance by a talented, intelligent woman.

    Compare the measures of character.

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  64. Sully is an ass, but there was one quick shot of Piper with her finger in Trig’s face. She was probably wiping something from around his eye.

    jeff (1074cb)

  65. I think I see a mushroom cloud over the Obama Camp…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  66. I haven’t heard the speech yet (I’ll look for it on youtube) but from the pictures I’ve seen on the wire I have one comment:

    With all due respect, John and Cindy McCain look like freaking mummies standing next to the Palins. That family is just too good-looking and healthy for their own good.

    Phil (3b1633)

  67. That’s what honest, hard work gets you…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  68. Well, yeah.

    JSM will have SHP around for 8 years, and then she’ll run for office and have her own 8 years.

    That lady can hold her own in a barfight, that’s for sure. You think she worries about what Europe or Russia thinks of us, or is she someone that believes in American exceptionalism?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  69. Remember, all of you who are reaching for your checkbooks…
    That check has to go to the RNC (earmarked for McCain-Palin, of course) because of the cut-off on fundraising due to McCain taking public money.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  70. This is the kind of speech writing we’ve been waiting for from the McCain / Palin campaign.

    Nice. But a horserace is a horserace, and in the UK, betting odds are than McCain will dump Palin as VP before the Election.

    MKDP (eea02d)

  71. Phil -

    It’s one thing to say “With all due respect,” and quite another thing to actually show it.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  72. I’ve spent some time in AK. I’m not surprised by anything that those crazies dish out.

    Teflon Don (736f11)

  73. We’ve finally found our “Thatcher”!

    Ain’t it Grand!

    Another Drew (85d510)

  74. Yeah, I can see why JSM would dump Palin now.

    “She’s got the base all excited, and she is unscathed by the attacks this weekend. Time to dump her and prove the Brits right!”

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  75. Aw, come on, icy, that’s nothing compared to McCain’s “Janet Reno is Chelsea Clinton’s daddy” joke. I’m sure he can take it.

    Phil (3b1633)

  76. “in the UK, betting odds are than McCain will dump Palin as VP before the Election.
    UK bookies should consider switching to professional tea sipping and dentistry for careers.

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  77. Nice. But a horserace is a horserace, and in the UK, betting odds are than McCain will dump Palin as VP before the Election.

    Comment by MKDP — 9/3/2008 @ 8:36 pm

    Why? Do you know something we don’t about some avalanche of even worse attacks that are going to come? Because though I’m sure liberals could go a lot lower than they have in the last five days, I just can’t think of how, just now.

    Anyway, good luck with that. Hope you don’t bet too much.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  78. MDKP is against her, so I’m feeling more confident by the minute.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  79. Great speech, even better delivery. Perfect melding of femininity and strength.

    She is woman, hear her roar. Woot!

    Dana (084de8)

  80. MKDP —

    in the UK, betting odds are than McCain will dump Palin as VP before the Election.

    – Better tell those odds-makers, “Prepare to be taken to the cleaners.” Hmm, after all the pounds sterling they lose, they won’t be able to afford dental care.

    What’s that? It’s free?

    Really?

    Icy Truth (614178)

  81. The Forehead (Begala), predictably doesn’t get it. He says Palin’s class warfare theme only plays to a small republican fringe and that, get this, he’s a small town guy so he knows what he’s talking about. He say small town folks are interesting in jobs and the price of oil and stuff.

    I think he missed the speech. That’s exactly what Palin talked about. Obama dissing small town America and how his policies are bad for the country.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  82. That was a home run. Palin will be the nominee for the top spot in 2012. McCain will be able to relax knowing his legacy is safe.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  83. Dammit, Jack! How dare you beat me to the obvious punchline?

    Friggin’ slow connection!

    Icy Truth (614178)

  84. in the UK, betting odds are than McCain will dump Palin as VP before the Election.

    I don’t get it. Why the heck would we remotely care about what the UK thinks?

    Dana (084de8)

  85. What’s that? It’s free?

    Well, that explains all of the poor orthodontia.
    You get what you pay for.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  86. Where do I go to place a bet for those odds?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  87. Nice. But a horserace is a horserace, and in the UK, betting odds are than McCain will dump Palin as VP before the Election.

    Comment by MKDP

    Oh, can I get some of this action? The UK doesn’t know how our system works. When the delegates vote for Palin, she’s will be the vp nomination. McCain has no say in the matter at this point. And, uh, the delegates will enthusiastically vote for Palin, much moreso than for McCain. Please, tell me where I can place a bet to take this easy money.

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  88. Phil – Do you have any doubts that Bill would have hit Janet or Hillary would have hit Janet?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  89. From NRO re Keith Olbermann,

    “He (Olbermann)who literally couldn’t find anything to criticize about Barack Obama’s acceptance speech just said of Sarah Palin’s speech, “People who like this sort of thing will find this… the sort of thing they like.”

    That was the worst Keith could do. Take that as a measure of Palin’s speech. “

    Andrew meet Keith. Keith meet Andrew.

    Dana (084de8)

  90. daleyrocks —

    He say small town folks are interesting in jobs and the price of oil and stuff. I think he missed the speech.

    – Yeah, but remember, the Messiah promised us world-class jobs no matter where we live.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  91. No lie, j…

    I’ll sell everything I own to get a piece of that action…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  92. “As the mother of one of those troops…”

    Well, we won’t be hearing any “chicken-hawk” comments this year, will we?

    Another Drew (85d510)

  93. Pretty good speech. Savage. Republicans have always been better at bitter, sarcastic mockery of the other guy. Many, many cheap shots. Hard to imagine her being as gracious as Obama was to her if the tables were turned.

    Still, almost no policy anything, other than drill drill drill. She flagrantly mischaracterized Obama’s tax plan, and lied again about her role in the bridge to nowhere.

    Good delivery though, way better than Romney or Giuliani. For someone who seems to think her kids are off-limits, she was sure passing around that baby a lot.

    Russell (da1856)

  94. MKDP,

    Your obsession with horses is not healthy. I am reporting you to the ASPCA and to PETA.

    In the meantime, do you have any videos?

    nk (21731d)

  95. #81 daleyrocks:

    He says Palin’s class warfare theme only plays to a small republican fringe

    Class warfare theme?

    There’s a reason I don’t listen to the talking heads, but someone needs to get that man a scorecard so he knows which team is what…

    Although, I have to admit that the irony of a hockey mom as point guard for the party of the “rich” vs the Ivy League champion of the poor has not escaped me.

    EW1(SG) (353db4)

  96. He (Olbermann)who literally couldn’t find anything to criticize about Barack Obama’s acceptance speech just said of Sarah Palin’s speech, “People who like this sort of thing will find this… the sort of thing they like.”

    Comment by Dana — 9/3/2008 @ 8:46 pm

    What a condescending….jerk.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  97. I thought we could donate to McCain till midnight tonight. No?

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  98. NOYK, didn’t see your thoughts on the speech…

    Dana (084de8)

  99. Phil -

    Aw, come on, icy, that’s nothing compared to McCain’s “Janet Reno is Chelsea Clinton’s daddy” joke.

    – Ohhhhh . . . what you wrote was supposed to be a joke?

    Don’t . . . ‘you know’ . . . day job.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  100. Republicans have always been better at bitter, sarcastic mockery of the other guy.

    You must not watch Olberman either…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  101. For those who have failed to capture the details of how a campaign works…
    VP candidates don’t go heavy on policy, that is reserved for the Pres. It is the job of the VP to rough-up the other guy over his policies.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  102. Don’t forget, tonight is the last opportunity you have to donate money to the Mccain/Palin campaign.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  103. Patricia, you might be right. I’d get that internet time-stamp before Midnight ET just to be sure.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  104. Yeah, that’s where I donated, DAna. Thanks.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  105. Obama spokesperson Carl Bernstein on CNN, suppose something happened to John McCain between now and the election, is this the kind of person they at the top of the ticket.

    Twatwaffle.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  106. Patricia, indeed you can give him money right now, but not for long.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  107. #93~ That is an awful lot of sanctimony packed into a small space.

    Next time you go to spew talking points, you might want to listen to the material yourself so you know which ones apply.

    EW1(SG) (353db4)

  108. Obviously, Carl didn’t get the memo from Rove on how if anything happens to McCain before the election, GW will just cancel it and proclaim himself “President For Life”.

    Another Drew (85d510)

  109. 108. Is there any point in the midst of sharing the enjoyment of nicely delivered speech by a poised, classy woman to answering such sniveling?

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  110. Olbermann: “People who like this sort of thing will find this… the sort of thing they like.”

    – And he called her “condescending”?

    Icy Truth (614178)

  111. Good speech. Game on! (Taking gloves off…)

    love2008 (1b037c)

  112. Comment by Dana — 9/3/2008 @ 8:50 pm

    Your comment on it was great. That speech has me exultant. SARAHCUDDA + McCAIN FTW. Thatisall. :)

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  113. love – class. I apologize for any threads in the past where I may have been overly mean spirited or sarcastic toward you. I appreciate the fact that you came here and said what you said, especially in comparison to people like jharp and Russell. Now let’s rumble. :)

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  114. *sigh* OK, Sarahcuda [sic]. Liked “Fertilla the Huntress” better anyway. :P

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  115. Obama spokesperson Carl Bernstein on CNN, suppose something happened to John McCain between now and the election, is this the kind of person they at the top of the ticket.

    – They can’t even wait until he gets into office to kill him off, now?! Jeez! I’ve always kinda liked Bernstein, but fuckin’-A!!! Even worse than the fact that he said it at all — is the fact that he’s jumping on a bandwagon. This is the same guy who bucked convention to bust open Watergate? No wonder Woodward doesn’t talk to him anymore.

    Icy Truth (614178)

  116. #114
    ;)

    love2008 (1b037c)

  117. Good speech. Game on! (Taking gloves off…)

    Comment by love2008 — 9/3/2008 @ 9:00 pm

    Gracious of you, love2008. Yes, game on. :) And may the best candidates win.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  118. Also, I thought Mrs. Palin was some kind of energy expert?? What was she talking about?

    There just isn’t that much new oil we can drill in the US. We can’t affect the global market with more domestic drilling. Iran doesn’t control twenty percent of the world’s energy supply. There is no such thing as clean coal.

    Russell (da1856)

  119. “Republicans have always been better at bitter, sarcastic mockery of the other guy.”
    That’s because Republicans always have so much more material to work with.

    kaf (c7bf36)

  120. There just isn’t that much new oil we can drill in the US.

    There are 200 BILLION barrel of shale oil, you moron! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

    And I LOVED this:

    I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a “community organizer,” except that you have actual responsibilities.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  121. Russell -

    Pretty good speech. Savage. Republicans have always been better at bitter, sarcastic mockery of the other guy.
    – That’s right. Tough vs. wimpy.

    Many, many cheap shots. Hard to imagine her being as gracious as Obama was to her if the tables were turned.
    – The same Obama who ‘mispronounced’ her hometown as “Wasilly”?

    Still, almost no policy anything, other than drill drill drill. She flagrantly mischaracterized Obama’s tax plan, and lied again about her role in the bridge to nowhere.
    – With those kind of violin skills you should play with the symphony.

    Good delivery though, way better than Romney or Giuliani.
    – They were good too.

    For someone who seems to think her kids are off-limits, she was sure passing around that baby a lot.
    – And there’s the pathetic stab! The kids are off-limits to make an issue of in the campaign (remember, it was Obama who said that); that doesn’t mean they can’t be there to help celebrate their mother’s moment. Remember Obama’s daughters onstage at the DNC, talking to him via satellite?

    Icy Truth (614178)

  122. Russell you are such a simpleton.

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  123. #119~ I thought that you said above that there was no policy in her speech?

    Bub, I just have to tell you that your post speech posts are an absolutely perfect illustration of the old adage “The truth hurts.”

    And sorry, but I’m not feeling your pain.

    EW1(SG) (353db4)

  124. 119 dimbulb- there’s more oil locked up in oil shale in the mountain states than has been used by civilization since oil was first discovered in Pa. And that ignores all the oil and gas offshore and in ANWR. But you dem fools don’t mind that China will be drilling in the Caribbean. Get a clue. I know your hero wants prices higher so people us less and we emulate the euroweenies.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  125. Republicans have always been better at bitter, sarcastic mockery of the other guy.

    Right, because it was a Republican Texas governor in 1988 who said of George H.W. Bush, “Poor George. He can’t help himself. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.”

    I’d call you a tool, Russell, but that would imply that you’re actually good for something.

    Steverino (1dda08)

  126. There is no such thing as clean coal.

    Near-zero emmision plants beg to differ…

    God, are you ACTUALLY this dumb?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  127. For someone who seems to think her kids are off-limits, she was sure passing around that baby a lot.

    Russell – The more you comment the more of a moron you prove yourself to be. Didn’t you see Obama’s kids at the convention last week? Having a family somewhere does not make them fair game. Don’t you ever think about something before you post it?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  128. Leave Russell alone. He has a lot to do to find his talking points on Daily Kos.

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  129. Republicans have always been better at bitter, sarcastic mockery of the other guy.

    Geez, someone hasn’t been watching the vicious, nasty, sexist attacks on Palin by the Mainstream Media, the ‘off the books’ PR thugs of the Democrat Party.

    Sarah just drank your milkshake.

    Darleen (187edc)

  130. IF McCain should lose, I’m moving to Alaska…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  131. Palin claimed in her speech that Obama proposes to “raise the death tax”, i.e., the estate tax. That’s just false. Current law has the exemption at $2 million and the rate at 45% for this year. Next year, under current law, the exemption will be $3.5 million and the rate will stay at 45%. That’s where Obama proposes to freeze it indefinitely.It’s true that under current law there would be no estate tax at all in 2010, but then in 2011 and all subsequent years the rate goes to 55% with only a $1 million exemption, i.e., a much lower exemption and a higher rate than in Obama’s proposal.

    Is she trying to claim with a straight face that if the estate tax under Obama’s plan is higher for 1 year but lower for all subsequent years than current law, then it’s appropriate to say that he plans to raise the estate tax?

    Look at what this piece says:

    Like McCain, Obama would lessen the bite of the estate tax

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  132. If Bambi doesn’t push through a change that keeps the death tax at a low rate, then yeah, he supports raising it.

    Has he come out in favor of lowering the tax?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  133. That speech was, as my grandpa used to say, “Stronger’n train smoke.”

    Did you know Sarah Palin’s dad (a high school science teacher) used to work part-time on the Alaska Railroad?

    Beldar (aec07e)

  134. If Bambi doesn’t push through a change that keeps the death tax at a low rate, then yeah, he supports raising it.

    Has he come out in favor of lowering the tax?

    Yes. I don’t know how I can say it any clearer than in my previous comment, but I’ll say it again. Under current law, from 2011 onward the exemption would be $1 million and the rate would be 55%. Under Obama’s proposal, the exemption would be $3.5 million and the rate would be 45%. So Obama’s proposal would both lower the rate and raise the exemption relative to current law for all years from 2011 onward.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  135. What’s the current rate now, including the upper limit?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  136. For the Sarah Palin/John McCain bootlickers.

    from Kevin Drum

    “Also, Toobin reminded me of the speech’s worst moment: that fact that Palin repeated her lie from Friday about standing up against the Bridge to Nowhere. There have been days and days of coverage thoroughly debunking this, showing beyond doubt that she was an enthusiastic supporter of the bridge and an enthusiastic supporter of the earmark, giving up only after the earmark was rescinded and Alaska was given the same amount of money to spend on other projects. She didn’t turn down a thing. And yet she repeated the lie because she knows perfectly well that 30 million people will see the speech and only a couple million will read the fact check. That’s some straight talk for you.”

    jharp (e854b0)

  137. Please point to the facts of the case and not just a CTRL C – V.

    You can do that, right?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  138. Wow. DNC, RNC, Berlin, Paris, London – SP would rock-the-house. I would pay money to see SP & BO “debate” in the mode of Lincoln – Douglas. And I know that BO has delivered when the buildup/ pressure was on. But he has never had to do so after an onslaught like SP has endured. I am at a loss to think of another recent example like this – where the person under-the-gun delivered like SP did tonight. And there may be an example of someone doing the same – but no one in the modern era has ever done it better. Historic, simply historic. She – um’ he – has my vote.

    lucky (038f15)

  139. Foo Bar – If you are trying to use your weaselly logic – you have to say Obama’s death tax is higher than McCain’s. She is correct in her statement. She didn’t specify number of years. That is your modification.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  140. Re Piper: Which would you rather have? Carolyn Kennedy, who is still attractive and articulate now that she’s an all grown up middle-aged woman? Or Piper? Watch this video clip if you have any doubts.

    A serious thought about that: If Gov. Palin becomes vice president, then for the next four years we’re likely to see lots of pix and video of Bristol’s new baby and his Uncle Trig growing up together. Gov. Palin had a line in her speech tonight about the parents of special needs kids will have an advocate in Washington (she actually said in the “White House,” but I guess that means she’s already negotiated space for her office there instead of in the OEM, which is good). I think the continual PR of seeing Trig grow up in a loving, close family (including his nephew) will do a lot to fight the stigma those individuals and families afflicted by Down syndrome still feel. I don’t argue that that’s enough of a reason for anyone to change his/her vote, but as bonuses go, it’s not a bad one.

    Beldar (aec07e)

  141. Under Obama’s proposal, the exemption would be $3.5 million and the rate would be 45%. So Obama’s proposal would both lower the rate and raise the exemption relative to current law for all years from 2011 onward.

    Yes, but it is WAY more than McCain’s plan (As found on a CNN page…)…

    McCain’s plan would be a more dramatic departure from current policy. The Arizona Senator favors a 15% tax rate, equal to the capital-gains tax rate, and an individual exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples).

    Wanna try again, dope?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  142. ARGH, have they taken that video clip down? It was from the local NBC affiliate in Juneau, showing the Palins as they were moving into the governor’s mansion. Bristol and Willow were pulling down the attic stairs to have a look up there, and Piper was chiding them, “You’re going to be in trouble!” (But obviously curious to see what was up there too.) Just fabulous footage.

    Beldar (aec07e)

  143. Two things I never would have imagined a year ago:

    Sarah Palin may have single-handedly revived the conservative wing of the Republican Party.

    If so, John McCain made it possible.

    DRJ (7568a2)

  144. What’s the current rate now, including the upper limit?

    While I don’t know the CURRENT limit, the link I used in #142 says the top rate in 2009 is a 45% tax rate on estates valued at more than $3.5 million.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  145. Beldar, I think that when she said “in the White House”, she meant an advocate that can sta d there and talk directly to the PotUS…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  146. What’s the current rate now, including the upper limit?

    It seems I have to say things twice in this dialogue, so once again: the exemption for 2008 is $2 million (i.e. $1.5 million lower than Obama’s proposal) and the rate is 45% (the same as Obama’s proposal). So the lower exemption and the identical rate means that the estate tax is higher right now than in Obama’s proposal.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  147. Ok, fine… The link I used at that 9:44pm timstamp…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  148. Who’s covered in the estate tax reduction? Everyone?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  149. 119 dimbulb- there’s more oil locked up in oil shale in the mountain states than has been used by civilization since oil was first discovered in Pa.

    Oil shale is not currently commercially recoverable. Not to mention it would make global warming worse and you’d likely have to strip-mine half of Colorado and Wyoming.

    There is, currently, no such thing as clean coal. Sure, the coal industry will accept massive subsidies to study the technology, but the technology isn’t there now. There’s one test plant in Germany, but it is not ready for rollout. Not to mention you have to actually mine the coal out of the ground first.

    Also, Iran does not control twenty percent of the world’s energy supply. Palin wildly distorted Obama’s tax plan, and lied about her role in the bridge to nowhere.

    That is the most important point. Lied again, after the debunking was all over the news.

    Russell (da1856)

  150. For McCain’s? Everyone. Married couples get double (since the exemption is per person, I would frankly think you would need not be married).

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  151. She distorted nothing about Obama’s tax plan, and I freaking DARE you to show otherwise.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  152. “smiling delivery . . . we have nothing to worry about.”

    Yeah, she sure looked good road killing “The opponent”

    Of course we still don’t know how McCain is going to fix the current ills of this great nation of ours.

    Hopefully tomorrow after tonights red meat, John McCain will tell us what his agenda is.

    oiram (060894)

  153. Lots of proposed solutions to energy are blue-sky. Let the market decide.

    At $100 bbl, shale oil might be commercially recoverable. I’m no oil-and-gas man, so I’ll let an expert give more info here.

    Sarah? Are you busy?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  154. I love it, Obama wants to go up against the big oil companies and he’s crucified by the right, Palin mentions it as part of her resume tonigh and you all cheer.

    oiram (060894)

  155. Wanna try again, dope?

    Palin didn’t say that Obama proposes less of an estate tax decrease than McCain’s plan proposes. She said that he plans to “raise the death tax”. Any reasonable person understands that to be a claim that he plans to raise it as compared to current law.

    Obama proposes to eliminate the income tax for seniors making less than $50K. McCain does not. Under your logic, we would have to say that McCain proposes to “raise taxes” on seniors making less than $50K.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  156. The magic number is $80, Steve.

    Nobody is commenting on the AMERICAN jobs for AMERICANS using AMERICAN resources aspect of her/JSM’s energy policy.

    How the heck does Mr. Fair not Free Trade Pay Grade fight well-paying jobs in self-sustaining AMERICAN industry?

    Palin bagged herself a bull moose (Obama). I’m gonna enjoy watching him stew.

    Ed (f35a20)

  157. How good a speech was it?? Marc Cooper is melting down.

    qdpsteve (dc65ab)

  158. He proposes to eliminate the tax for some by raising the tax on others.

    That’s raising taxes. And increasing spending.

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  159. Thanks, Ed. I hazily remember something about it being around $80 bbl, but I guessed high just to be safe.

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  160. He proposes to eliminate the tax for some by raising the tax on others

    Are you referring to the estate tax here, or the income tax?

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  161. To eliminate the tax on seniors, he will raise the tax on others. That’s not the estate tax.

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  162. Palin didn’t say that Obama proposes less of an estate tax decrease than McCain’s plan proposes.

    The idea of “Effective Marginal Tax Rates” is lost on you, isn’t it, FooBoo?

    And it has long been the habit of Democrats to, when proposing a 6% increase, say that republicans want to cut by 3% when Repbs are proposing a 3% increase…

    It’s ok… My boss gets really pissed when I use his own words against him too…

    You really are a funny, funny man.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  163. “It seems I have to say things twice in this dialogue, so once again: the exemption for 2008 is $2 million (i.e. $1.5 million lower than Obama’s proposal) and the rate is 45% (the same as Obama’s proposal). So the lower exemption and the identical rate means that the estate tax is higher right now than in Obama’s proposal.”

    Foo Bar – Enough of your dishonesty. The WSJ piece you linked points out the Federal Estate tax exemption goes up to $3.5 million on 1/1/09, the same as Obama plans. He also has the same rate. McCain on the other hand wants to increase the exemption to $5 million per person on the same date and drop the rate to 15%. In addition, both want to drop the 0 estate tax currently scheduled for 2010.

    I’d say Obama’s look like increases over the current law and over McCain.

    Don’t you read your own links?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  164. Palin:

    The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes … raise payroll taxes … raise investment income taxes … raise the death tax … raise business taxes … and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars.[emphasis mine]

    First of all, it’s misleading to not mention once that Obama would cut taxes for everyone making less than $227,000/year, (about 97% of the population).

    Second, Obama’s plan leads to a net reduction in the tax burden on the American people, as you can see here. Even taking into account Obama’s tax increases on the rich, it’s still an average net decrease in taxes by $610 dollars.

    So you can see what Palin said is the opposite of what’s true.

    Russell (da1856)

  165. Who’s covered in the estate tax reduction? Everyone?

    I don’t see any evidence that there are any particular exceptions to the reduction Obama proposes that would justify a claim that he actually wants to raise it. Here is an AP piece that Fox News chose to run on its site. It says

    Both want to slice the estate tax, McCain more so than Obama.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  166. Net reduction means collect less tax dollars. Is that what Bambi is proposing? Then why not just lower taxes on the ‘rich’, too? Why pick on them?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  167. First of all, it’s misleading to not mention once that Obama would cut taxes for everyone making less than $227,000/year, (about 97% of the population).

    That, sir, is a blatant lie.

    I’ll say it one more time, for you slow kids…

    Effective Marginal Tax Rates

    He actually INCREASES them dramatically for those on the lowest end…

    So, Russy… Wanna try one more time?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  168. Which is to say, what Obama SAYS he proposes, and what the actual reality will be under his plan are two completely different things.

    Sen. Obama. Lied.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  169. Bambi has stated publicly that he wants to raise tax rates on the rich even though it will collect less revenue. Why would he do that?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  170. I love it, Obama wants to go up against the big oil companies and he’s crucified by the right, Palin mentions it as part of her resume tonigh and you all cheer.

    Comment by oiram — 9/3/2008 @ 10:04 pm

    Oiram – You prove once again that you don’t get it. Obama wants to go against the big oil companies when they aren’t doing anything wrong just because he sees a pile of money he can expropriate. That’s not an American form of government. We don’t usually like that kind of selective taxation. Sarah Palin moves against the oil companies because they are doing something wrong and she renegotiates their deals or opens them up to competion, that we can applaud.

    Try thinking the difference through, kiddo.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  171. Because it sounds good to the ignorant masses who never bothered to take an Econ class (or pay attention to one).

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  172. I’d say Obama’s look like increases over the current law and over McCain.

    Only for 1 year (2010) does Obama’s plan amount to an increase over current law. For all subsequent years (2011 and onward) it is a decrease. I’ve already explained this, as does the WSJ piece:

    But based on current law, there’s an even bigger incentive to survive until 2010. In that year, the federal estate tax is scheduled to disappear entirely, only to reappear again in 2011 with a $1 million exclusion for 2011.

    How Obama’s plan compares to McCain’s plan is irrelevant to the accuracy of Palin’s claim that Obama proposes to “raise the death tax”.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  173. So you admit Bambi will raise taxes.

    Why does this not surprise me?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  174. Foo Bar – Read your own WSJ link.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  175. Foo claims:

    How Obama’s plan compares to McCain’s plan is irrelevant to the accuracy of Palin’s claim that Obama proposes to “raise the death tax”.

    and then quotes “But based on current law, there’s an even bigger incentive to survive until 2010. In that year, the federal estate tax is scheduled to disappear entirely, only to reappear again in 2011 with a $1 million exclusion for 2011.

    His error is that Obama wants to Lock, perminantly, the Estate tax at 45% for anything over #3.5 million ($7 million for married couples).

    That sounds suspiciously like far more than “disappear entirely” in 2010…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  176. Speaking of lying, here’s the chronology for the bridge lie.

    August 29: Palin is nominated. During her speech, she mentions that in Alaska, she said “thanks but no thanks” to the bridge to nowhere.

    August 31: Multiple news sources notice the obvious:

    In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called “Bridge to Nowhere,” political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska’s Congressional delegation during her run for governor.

    September 3: Palin accepts the nomination. During her speech, she mentions that in Alaska, she said “thanks, but no thanks to the Bridge to that Bridge to Nowhere.”

    Russell (da1856)

  177. The idea of “Effective Marginal Tax Rates” is lost on you, isn’t it, FooBoo?

    Your link does not discuss the estate tax in any way. How is it relevant to my claim that Palin was not accurate when claiming that Obama plans to raise the estate tax?

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  178. going from 0% to 45% is a raise, isn’t it?

    steve miller (3c2c90)

  179. Foo Bar – And without the details steve and scott are asking for, which you have not provided, how can anybody answer the question you are demanding answers for. You’re an Obama supporter, if you want to make the case his proposal doesn’t do something, provide the details.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  180. Your link does not discuss the estate tax in any way. How is it relevant to my claim that Palin was not accurate when claiming that Obama plans to raise the estate tax?

    That would be found at the comment currently #143 (9:44pm timestamp)…

    Here, I’ll quote where I link it just for you, since you’re having such a rough night what with all your idiocy and lies…

    Yes, but it is WAY more than McCain’s plan (As found on a CNN page…)

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  181. nk, to what videos do you refer?

    MKDP (574457)

  182. TEST

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  183. The link:

    http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/b61edf42-a65d-4c4d-b038-6123db8fc2a5.htm

    The policy: John McCain has also long sought permanent and immediate reform of the estate tax, and supports raising the exemption from taxation on estates up to $10 million while cutting the tax rate to 15 percent.

    – Compare that to what Foo Bar reported: Obama’s plan – $7 million for couples ($3.5 million for singles), taxed at 45%.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  184. The policy: John McCain has also long sought permanent and immediate reform of the estate tax, and supports raising the exemption from taxation on estates up to $10 million while cutting the tax rate to 15 percent.

    – Compare that to what Foo Bar accurately reported: Obama’s plan – $7 million for couples ($3.5 million for singles), taxed at 45%.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  185. Folks:

    In my very first comment, I made it clear that Obama’s plan raises the estate tax relative to current law for one year (2010) and then lowers it relative to current law for all subsequent years. I then asked whether it is appropriate to say that he proposes to “raise the death tax” given this set of facts.

    Are you disputing the assertion that Obama’s plan lowers the estate tax relative to current law for all years from 2011 onwards, or are you arguing that it is appropriate to say that he plans to “raise the death tax” based on the fact that his plan raises it relative to current law for one year only and then cuts it going forward from then? If it’s the latter, we could have all saved ourselves some time if you’d made that clear from the start.

    Here it is again from the Fox News website:

    The estate tax is phasing out and is completely eliminated for 2010, but it snaps back to 2001 levels — a 55 percent top rate with the first $675,000 exempt — at the end of that year. McCain wants a 15 percent rate, and a $5 million exemption, while Obama advocates a 45 percent rate and a $3.5 million exemption.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  186. Icy,

    I found your comment 185 in the filter. I’m sure it went there because of the link. There was a glitch that took down comments for most of the afternoon and the system still seems a little woozy.

    DRJ (7568a2)

  187. #169: I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about. Effective marginal tax rates are not the same as tax rates. EMTR is the tax paid on an extra dollar of income, and in that American article, they argue that his tax cuts are not designed to stimulate the economy correctly. That is NOT the same thing as tax increases.

    I know you won’t believe me, so here is one of the authors of the paper:

    Given some confusion on the blogosphere, I want to reiterate that my and Alex’ article does not find an increase in average tax rates, or in tax payments, at the income ranges shown in the chart. On the contrary, our article makes clear that Obama’s proposed tax cuts would cause average tax rates and tax payments to decline throughout this income range. The point of our article is that Obama’s tax cuts are designed in ways that raise marginal tax rates (the extra tax paid on an extra dollar of income) and therefore reduce incentives to earn income. The marginal rate rises because the size of the tax cut falls as income rises. The design of his tax cuts also increases the complexity of the tax system. To avoid confusion, anyone posting our chart should also post (and thoroughly read) our article. [emphasis mine]

    Duh.

    Russell (da1856)

  188. That would be found at the comment currently #143 (9:44pm timestamp)…

    Here, I’ll quote where I link it just for you, since you’re having such a rough night what with all your idiocy and lies…

    Are you saying that because Obama does not propose to cut the estate tax as much as McCain does, it is appropriate to say the he proposes to raise the estate tax?

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  189. Russell, if Obama plans to tax us less, but also plans on many huge government programs that cost huge amounts more than even the war effort, how is he going to pay for it?

    OH THAT’S RIGHT: INFLATION

    Inflation is the liberal’s favorite tax hike.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  190. going from 0% to 45% is a raise, isn’t it?

    For one year, yes. Going from an exemption of less than $1 million and a 55% rate (current law for 2011 onwards) to an exemption of $3.5 million and a 45% rate from 2011 onwards is a cut, isn’t it? Are you fine with this all being summarized as “raising” the “death tax”?

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  191. I made it clear that Obama’s plan raises the estate tax relative to current law for one year

    Well then, if he is raising it one yer, and then holding at planned 2009 levels would be a raise…

    Especially compared to McCain’s flat 15%, which ALSO have a significantly larger deduction ($3 millions for couples).

    So, you’ll be saying “I’m sorry for being a lying douche” right about now…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  192. Well, I found the speech on youtube. Sure was lots of “yay war” talk (getting the biggest cheers from the crowd as always). Lots of “hail McCain the great war hero” (because, you know, we need someone to lead us through all this war we’re so excited about). Lot’s of talk about what a great “fighter” he is. To be fair, there was the occasional nod to small government (except for when we need it for war).

    Maybe its nervousness (heck I’d sure be nervous in her position) but she seems to read the teleprompter a few words at a time rather than in complete sentences/thoughts, making her speech seem very fragmented.

    I still want to like Palin. I don’t dislike her. I have no idea what’s got the Republicans so excited about her (other than the fact that it’s nice to have someone who looks healthy and attractive up there, after looking at McCain by himself for the past few months).

    At this point, I’m leaning (unenthusiastically) toward McCain, primarily because of his plan to shake up the tax breaks that help Americans buy health insurance. That’s what’ll affect ordinary Americans, day-to-day, more than just about anything else he’s planning, but he hasn’t figured out how to sell it to us. So he (and now Palin) keep sticking with the “I’m good at war” hook. Maybe it’ll work for ‘em, who knows.

    Palin certainly didn’t say anything that really impressed me tonight. I’m curious to see how she does in the debates, though, when she doesn’t have a teleprompter. Maybe she’ll loosen up.

    Phil (3b1633)

  193. On the contrary, our article makes clear that Obama’s proposed tax cuts would cause average tax rates and tax payments to decline throughout this income range

    Indeed…

    It decreases as you make more money…

    Thank you for re-itterating my point, dopey…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  194. Well then, if he is raising it one yer, and then holding at planned 2009 levels would be a raise…

    Not if his plan cuts it compared to planned levels for 2011 onwards.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  195. Oiram –

    Yeah, she sure looked good road killing “The opponent”
    – “Waaaahhh!!! She was mean!” he says, at the same time acknowledging her not calling Obama by name.

    Of course we still don’t know how McCain is going to fix the current ills of this great nation of ours.
    – If you had paid attention, you would know.

    Hopefully tomorrow after tonights red meat, John McCain will tell us what his agenda is.
    – He will, of course. In the meantime, you could visit his website (ooh! scary!!!).

    I love it, Obama wants to go up against the big oil companies and he’s crucified by the right, Palin mentions it as part of her resume tonigh and you all cheer.
    – Palin fought to have them pay their fair share; Obama wants to make them pay more than their fair share.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  196. And unless we’re using “New Math”, 45% is more than 15%, and his exemptions are less than McCain’s…

    I’m glad you keep pointing this out…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  197. #190 – Foo Bar

    Are you saying that because Obama does not propose to cut the estate tax as much as McCain does, it is appropriate to say the he proposes to raise the estate tax?

    – Argue the wording she used all that you want. Voters only care about what the numbers are, not whether or not she said it exactly the right way.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  198. #188 – DRJ

    – Thanks. I was freakin’ there for a minute.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  199. OK, I get it. How to get a tax cut under Obama: Quit your job.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  200. Argue the wording she used all that you want. Voters only care about what the numbers are, not whether or not she said it exactly the right way.

    OK, well I hope you won’t mind if Biden goes around saying that McCain plans to raise taxes on seniors with incomes than $50K. He doesn’t propose to eliminate them the way Obama does, so saying he plans to raise them would be as justifiable as saying that Obama plans to raise the estate tax.

    Foo Bar (03f778)

  201. It decreases as you make more money…

    Thank you for re-itterating my point, dopey…

    Let me see if I can be more clear. I’m talking about tax rates, the amount one pays in every year in taxes. The study you so authoritatively cited is talking about effective marginal tax rates (EMTR), which are hypothetical tax rates for someone should their income increase.

    It is plainly obvious that Obama will cut taxes for everyone making less than $227,000/year. In fact, it’s not even controversial. It’s like deciding, as a business store owner, how much you’re going to charge for a product. EMTR is a secondary effect of the design of the tax code and does not effect real tax rates.

    That, sir, is a blatant lie.

    Care to retract that statement? Or at least lay off the insults?

    Russell (da1856)

  202. Hmm, I think I got one stuck in the filter as well.

    Russell (da1856)

  203. Don’t worry… I’ll watch Olbermann… I’m sure I’ll see it…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  204. I found it, Russell. It’s # 203.

    DRJ (7568a2)

  205. Yes, I don’t doubt that Olbermann gives hourly updates on the state of Patterico’s comment threads.

    Oh wait, I forgot that we’re all connected via the magic talking points teletype. In fact, I’m really just a stenographer plugged into the MSNBC/Olbermann/Daily Kos hive mind, loyally transcribing whatever comes into my cranial implants in the hopes that they’ll give me a couple cranks on the glucose drip next week. Sure is dark in this underground bunker, though.

    Russell (da1856)

  206. Thank you, DRJ.

    Russell (da1856)

  207. #194 – Phil

    Lots of “hail McCain the great war hero” (because, you know, we need someone to lead us through all this war we’re so excited about).
    – We need someone who is prepared to do whatever becomes necessary.

    Lot’s of talk about what a great “fighter” he is.
    – There are few people not willing to concede that he is tough.

    To be fair, there was the occasional nod to small government (except for when we need it for war).
    – That “occasional nod” was a campaign pledge to review every department in government and then trim the excess, publishing the results on the web.

    Maybe its nervousness (heck I’d sure be nervous in her position) but she seems to read the teleprompter a few words at a time rather than in complete sentences/thoughts, making her speech seem very fragmented.
    – And yet it was totally coherent and conversational, wasn’t it? Go back to YouTube and track down the speech delivered by Kathleen Sebelius (rumored to have been on Obama’s short list for VP) from the DNC last week. Quite a contrast, isn’t it?

    I still want to like Palin. I don’t dislike her.
    – Translation: you are forcing yourself not to like her.

    I have no idea what’s got the Republicans so excited about her (other than the fact that it’s nice to have someone who looks healthy and attractive up there, after looking at McCain by himself for the past few months).
    – They feel that she is, like Bobby Jindal, a true Reagan Republican.

    At this point, I’m leaning (unenthusiastically) toward McCain, primarily because of his plan to shake up the tax breaks that help Americans buy health insurance. That’s what’ll affect ordinary Americans, day-to-day, more than just about anything else he’s planning, but he hasn’t figured out how to sell it to us.
    – Looks like he sold it to you, so vote for him on that basis and don’t worry about the rest of us. It’ll all work out.

    So he (and now Palin) keep sticking with the “I’m good at war” hook. Maybe it’ll work for ‘em, who knows.
    – Being prepared to defend our freedom never goes out of style.

    Palin certainly didn’t say anything that really impressed me tonight.
    – A few of us disagree.

    I’m curious to see how she does in the debates, though, when she doesn’t have a teleprompter. Maybe she’ll loosen up.
    – Biden is pulling his plugs out right now.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  208. Russell -

    Yes, I don’t doubt that Olbermann gives hourly updates on the state of Patterico’s comment threads.

    – Scott’s point is that we get the reverse here.

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  209. In fact, I’m really just a stenographer

    I never suggested any such thing…

    A stenographer has a useful skill. You’re merely cutting and pasting…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  210. Come on Scott,

    You know that Russell is really Keith Olbermann, Foo Bar is Chris Matthews, and Phil is Geraldo Rivera, don’t you? They just come here to test out their material.

    (Levi was Helen Thomas but is going by bev from a library connection now.) ;)

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  211. A stenographer has a useful skill. You’re merely cutting and pasting…

    So you’re giving up on the tax issue?

    Russell (da1856)

  212. Since you have yet to actually give facts and numbers to back up your assertations that Gov. Palin lied, yes.

    Because after so many hours I need to sleep before work, and you need to brush up on your talking points…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  213. Stashiu3 —

    You owe me a new living room rug! [Read: spit-take with a mouthfull of diet Pepsi]

    Icy Truth (6189a6)

  214. Scott, see comments #178, 189, and 203.

    I think you’re bluffing, and you don’t have a clue what the EMTR is. You are pretty good at recycling the same couple-three insults in every single comment, though.

    As it stands, Sarah Palin is a liar.

    Russell (da1856)

  215. Just to be contrary, when we buy eastern Russia we’re going to need that bridge.

    The Patter-Crew: Why would Putin sell us eastern Russia?

    Alan: We’re white.

    Alan Kellogg (e4e5b6)

  216. I don’t particularly think that Palin mischaracterized Obama’s tax proposals. Rather, I think she implied he’s full of crap and will never follow through on them.

    A sentiment I happen to agree with. Democrats routinely ape Republican rhetoric on taxes because it’s good politics, but never, never, never deliver. The sun will go cold and dark before a Democratic president delivers meaningful tax relief to real live taxpayers.

    BC (61d692)

  217. Are you disputing the assertion that Obama’s plan lowers the estate tax relative to current law for all years from 2011 onwards, or are you arguing that it is appropriate to say that he plans to “raise the death tax” based on the fact that his plan raises it relative to current law for one year only and then cuts it going forward from then?

    I’m disputing that Obama’s plan is anything more than a campaign proposal which will quickly be forgotten should he win the presidency.

    BC (61d692)

  218. Are you fine with this all being summarized as “raising” the “death tax”?

    I’ll start to sweat it when liberals develop some shame about characterizing cuts in the rates of growth of federal programs as cuts to the programs themselves.

    BC (61d692)

  219. Really good public speaker. She was able to appear spontaneous, tough, etc. and rattled of some good foreign policy tidbits to undermine the “doesn’t think about foreign policy” meme.

    I thought the speech ended on a down note tho, with her having to dole out all the whiny crap about how JM was a POW. Yah, we got it already, McCain suffered for his country,thanks can the campaign drop that now? Is that line supposed to bait the “biased press” into recalling that back in 2000 the GWBush campain apparently thought that JM’s POW experience made him too mentally unstable to be commander in cheif? Is the strategy to then GAWSP that the “liberal press has gone too far again!!!” What gives with that line? It makes McCain sound like he’s asking for a break coz he’s had a tough life, not like his life has made him tough.

    Sarah Palin had the crowd really going before she had to end on that. I thought they were going to try and make her the Prez candidate by acclimation.

    EdWood (4a0e7b)

  220. Russell wrote:

    Palin…lied about her role in the bridge to nowhere…Lied again, after the debunking was all over the news.

    September 3: Palin accepts the nomination. During her speech, she mentions that in Alaska, she said “thanks, but no thanks to the Bridge to that Bridge to Nowhere.”

    From Newsweek, October 15, 2007:

    In an interview with NEWSWEEK, Palin said it’s time for Alaska to “grow up” and end its reliance on pork-barrel spending. Shortly after taking office, Palin canceled funding for the “Bridge to Nowhere,” a $330 million project that Stevens helped champion in Congress. The bridge, which would have linked the town of Ketchikan to an island airport, had come to symbolize Alaska’s dependence on federal handouts. Rather than relying on such largesse, says Palin, she wants to prove Alaska can pay its own way, developing its huge energy wealth in ways that are “politically and environmentally clean.”

    L.N. Smithee (ffbf01)

  221. As a San Franciscan, I loved the line about B.O. saying different things in Scranton, PA and San Francisco. Obama was talking about Biden being from blue-collar Scranton so much in his 60 Minutes interview Sunday one couldn’t be blamed for being under the impression Biden is representing Pennsylvania.

    L.N. Smithee (ffbf01)

  222. Scott: It’s apparent Russell is on the Obama Rapid Crap-id Response team.

    L.N. Smithee (ffbf01)

  223. I thought they were going to try and make her the Prez candidate by acclimation.

    Is it too late for that? Ah well, if we can’t have Palin/McCain, I guess McCain/Palin will do.

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  224. I loved it. Good night in St. Paul. Rudy brought down the house, and then Gov. Palin kneecapped Baracky, repeatedly. Me happy.

    JD (75f5c3)

  225. I kept getting a 500 error on my Palm, so I could not comment last night.

    MSNBC was horrid. Comparing their coverage last week to this week is not possible. They have no shame.

    However, even they could not ruin last night for me. Rudy and Gov. Palin delivered, big time.

    JD (75f5c3)

  226. I can’t help but feel that Ronnie got a special dispensation and came back to kiss Sarah on the forehead as she slept.

    rhodeymark (6797b5)

  227. And Atwater was standing in a corner, nodding in approval.

    Regarding Ron, expect Palin to have her own “there you go again” moment…

    Biden’s toast…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  228. “There just isn’t that much new oil we can drill in the US…”

    Still boning up on those American History books, Russell? Duhhhhhhhhhhh…..

    Dmac (874677)

  229. He saw a program about Hitler on the Histroy Channel last night…

    He thinks that someone really aught to stop him!

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  230. IF McCain should lose, I’m moving to Alaska…Scott Jacobs

    Me too!

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  231. Me too!

    Oooooooooooooooo!!!!

    We could be ROOMIES!!!!

    squeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    wtf? Where the hell did THAT come from? Ok, no more coffee today. I’m cutting myself off…

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  232. We would wear backpacks! And live off the land! Drill for oil!

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  233. I’m starting to get flashback to the Calamity Family.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  234. #222: Yes, Palin opposed the bridge AFTER it had already been blocked by opponents in the US Congress. But during her campaign for governor, she supported the bridge. See here (from the Anchorage Daily News):

    5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

    Yes. I would like to see Alaska’s infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now–while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.

    Sarah Palin is a liar.

    Russell (8f6651)

  235. Russell – there is an old saying about motes and eyes. Familiar with that one?

    JD (75f5c3)

  236. Russell – there is an old saying about motes and eyes. Familiar with that one?

    Ad hominem. So you admit she is a liar, then?

    Russell (8f6651)

  237. Not only is Russell an Obamabot, he is an unabashed advocate of Keynesian Economics; and, appearantly won’t be satisfied until the tax-code is restored to its’ pre-Kennedy levels.

    Another Drew (67986d)

  238. No, I do not. I was pointing out that you could not see your lying due to that mote in your eye.

    JD (75f5c3)

  239. So long as you admit you are unab;e to tell reality from your own twisted world of fiction, sure. Why not.

    She killed the project after she became Governor… How is that inconsistant, you think-headed dolt?

    Also, how’s that indictment against Biden’s brother and son working out? And the millions to Biden’s son’s clients that Obama got earmarked?

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  240. Sarah Palin is a liar.

    I love how changing one’s mind about the wisdom of a public works project amounts to a “lie” among oxygen thieves like Russel.

    BC (abe920)

  241. But claiming that Bill Ayers is “just a guy in my neighborhood” is a claim that dare not be question lest the hounds be released.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  242. I love how changing one’s mind about the wisdom of a public works project amounts to a “lie” among oxygen thieves like Russel.

    While a complete 180 on an issue for Obama merely constitutes a “more artful way of stating his position”.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)


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