Patterico's Pontifications

9/2/2008

The “McCain Campaign in Disarray” Meme is Completely Wrong — And They Love Reading About It. — UPDATED

Posted by WLS:

The selection of Sarah Palin, and the information overload of the last 48 hours, has fed into the press meme that the McCain campaign is in disarray, and the “failure” to sufficient vet her is just the latest example.

Chief among the contentions of the Obama-edia is that by selecting Palin, McCain has undercut his primary argument against Obama — his lack of experience.

This, my friends, is emblematic of why Democrats lose national elections and Republicans win — always fighting the last war.

For about 60 days, and especially since the Berlin speech, the McCain campaign was relentless in pounding home the “too inexperienced” theme on Obama with paid advertising in battleground states and surrogate appearances in the press. Obama was mostly out raising money, and didn’t begin to respond effectively until McCain was scoring some points. Sound familiar John Kerry?

One effect of this was that Obama was pushed into a completely ordinary and uninspiring selection of Joe Blowhard Biden as his running mate. And the nation yawned.

McCain acts — Obama reacts.

So what about that “experience” issue now with Palin?

Well, that narrative is already established in the minds of swing voters — Obamamaniacs in the Dem party are never going to be swayed from their views on him. Pounding away with that issue alone for the next 9 weeks would be stupid.

So the topic of the fall had to be different from the topic of the summer. Just like Kerry was stood up straight with the Swift Boaters claims — getting him out of his comfort zone — and later taken down with his liberalism, that will be the same “Rovian” playbook that McCain’s camp will follow from now to election day.

The game now will shift to “conservatism” v. “liberalism.” It’ll be “genuine reform” v. “South Side machine politics.”

It’ll be “McCain/Palin and the NRA/Drill-Drill-Drill”, v. “Obama and Ayers w/$4 gas is just fine because it means we consume less.”

The battleground for the fall campaign is different than it was for the summer.

The Dems/Obama are in the process of fighting over ground – experience – that McCain has already won.

The GOP/McCain have moved on and will begin breaching the Dem lines on Wednesday and Thursday.

Mobility is lethality, both in war and politics.

UPDATED – The NYT Caucus Blog has a new McCain ad out today hitting Obama for his intention to add billions in new federal spending:

“Take away the crowds, the chants,” and “all that’s left are costly words,” according to the Republicans ad, which is to be broadcast in 14 battleground states beginning on Tuesday.

Images of Senator Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, as well as Democratic Congressional leaders, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, and Chris Dodd of Connecticut flash on the screen.

“Barack Obama and out-of-touch Congressional leaders have expensive plans,” an announcer says. “Billions in new government spending. Years of deficits. No balanced budgets.”

112 Responses to “The “McCain Campaign in Disarray” Meme is Completely Wrong — And They Love Reading About It. — UPDATED”

  1. WLS, Good Points All!

    Plus, every personal attack against the Palin’s will generate votes for the GOP – up and down the ticket.

    The Obama-elites are clueless – and vicious little pieces of slime that most of us wouldn’t even step on if we had manuevering room.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  2. WLS – Well said, and spelled Let them fight over experience, or lack thereof. Since Gov. Palin has more executive experience than the rest combined, it is a great argument. Even better when they are reduced to arguing that their Presidential candidate is comparable to our VP choice. Plus, they are acting like oozing rectal fistulas.

    JD (5f0e11)

  3. JD beat me to it – a cardinal sin of any Presidential election is not to allow your candidate to be lowered to any rung beneath that office. It’s inconceivable that the Dems took the bait – McCain’s people knew exactly what they were doing, and knew that the douchebags and their minions couldn’t help themselves.

    Dmac (874677)

  4. ‘“Barack Obama and out-of-touch Congressional leaders have expensive plans,” an announcer says. “Billions in new government spending. Years of deficits. No balanced budgets.”’

    You’d think he was running Wasillia Alaska.

    kirby (8bb588)

  5. kirby wrote: You’d think he was running Wasillia Alaska.

    No, I wouldn’t. That would mean he would have run something besides his mouth.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  6. Just like Kerry was stood up straight with the Swift Boaters claims – getting him out of his comfort zone — and later taken down with his liberalism, that will be the same “Rovian” playbook that McCain’s camp will follow from now to election day.

    Please, no mentions of “Rovian” politics. With the selection of Palin, McCain — ironically — has done more to galvanize the base than Rove did in all his years in the White House.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  7. If the McCain campaign is in such disarray, then how come I have made TWO contributions to McCain/Palin in the last three days? I had not gotten off my wallet once during this election till Friday.

    I wonder how many more are just like me?

    Some disarray.

    MagicalPat (236421)

  8. Kirby – that’s the first time anyone’s heard that one…in the last hour. The Trolls can’t even get their new talking points down before they start posting.

    Dmac (874677)

  9. “If the McCain campaign is in such disarray, then how come I have made TWO contributions to McCain/Palin in the last three days?”

    yeah! explain that libtards! Their credit card processing systems still work!

    kirby (1ea4bd)

  10. You’d think he was running Wasillia Alaska.

    Obama did “run” the Annenberg challenge and $150 million was squandered with no positive impact on the schools. Which Swiss bank accounts did that money go to?

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  11. When they are done with the machine vs reform angle, good as it is, they might have a go at Obama’s crazed mandatory public service scheme (from the Obama web site).

    You really have to read it to believe it. The “Obama Youth” isn’t much of a stretch once you have this.

    Summary here.

    Kevin Murphy (eb4d6c)

  12. The Annenberg money was spent on Marxist/revolutionary indoctrination of schoolchildren. His buddy Ayers steered it to folks much like the Rev Wright.

    Kevin Murphy (eb4d6c)

  13. McCain acts — Obama reacts.

    Mobility is lethality, both in war and politics.

    WLS, if John “Forty Second” Boyd were around today, he would call the McCain campaign agile rather than mobile. He would also say that McCain is inside the Obama campaign’s decision loop, because they are reacting to where McCain was…not where he is.

    I wonder if McCain read Sun-Tzu, like Boyd did, because he hit the Obama campaign not so much at their weakest point as where they least expected it.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  14. Kirby, Kirby – you’re out of your league here, son. Go while you still have a shred of dignity intact.

    Dmac (874677)

  15. Kirby has dignity?

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  16. Paul, it’s obvious that McCain and his staff are inside Obama and Axelrod’s heads at this point; the hysterical over – the – top reactions/smear attempts over the web and the MSM by the Trollbots is indicative of just how weirded – out they’ve become over the past 72 hours.

    Dmac (874677)

  17. Good point, Icy. Never mind, I retract and denounce myself for making that statement.

    Dmac (874677)

  18. I never knew that “disarray” was a synonym for “shoulder-to-shoulder” and “committed to win.” Amazing how fast the media has got Republicans to put their differences behind them and come together to kick these asshats into next year.

    Kevin Murphy (eb4d6c)

  19. Paul…
    I would venture that McCain read Sun-Tzu either as an under-grad at the Academy, or in one of the post-grad, War College courses he took after coming home.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  20. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCain knew Boyd. He is inside their OODA cycle.

    The fact that Obama is now comparing himself to Palin shows how rattled he is. Look at Washington Monthly to see obsession. They are going nuts although they are not as nasty as Kos.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  21. Barry looks sillier by the moment.By comparing Palin’s stint as mayor to his presidential run he really exposes his folly.First he ignores her current day job.then,he attempts to equate the annual mayoral $3mill budget to he fact that he is blowing through 12 times that amount each month.As if that were a plus point.As if he were actually personally running the campaign.He forgets he is merely the talking head for a massively inefficient spending machine that produces nothing.A harbinger of things to come.
    The icing on the cake is that he uses the fact that he is running for Pres, as “proof” for his ability to do the job.Such wonderful circular logic.
    And poor litlle Anderson Cooper just stands there and asks no questions.

    campfreddy (f2eb2a)

  22. Paul and Mike K,

    My father the Air Force man has been telling me about John Boyd for years. He’s fascinating and inspirational.

    And Paul, on the other thread regarding your son — that’s the hardest thing a parent could face. You have my deepest admiration.

    DRJ (7568a2)

  23. I really think that the vetting of Palin was very complete, and we’re seeing the results used to keep the wing-nuts (on both sides) busy making noise. The chaos of the McCain campaign, I suspect, is a sham, publicly offering targets for Obama to waste time on. Any day now, Obama will announce that there are no candidates tanks in Baghdad Washington. Boyd ++, Sun Tzu:

    Warfare is the Way of deception.
    Therefore, if able, appear unable,
    if active, appear not active,
    if near, appear far,
    if far, appear near.
    If they have advantage, entice them;
    if they are confused, take them,
    if they are substantial, prepare for them,
    if they are strong, avoid them,
    if they are angry, disturb them,
    if they are humble, make them haughty,
    if they are relaxed, toil them,
    if they are united, separate them.
    Attack where they are not prepared, go out to where they do not expect. …

    htom (412a17)

  24. For folks who think that the breathless MSM is doing a better job nowadays, and aren’t getting involved in trying to shape opinion their way, check this out:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/anneschroeder/0908/Sarah_Palins_mother_in_law_no_question_Im_going_to_vote_for_McCainPalin_ticket.html?showall

    Here is my favorite quote from Governor Palin’s mother in law:

    Palin: “There is absolutely no question, I’m going to vote for the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin.”

    Palin: “Casual conversations get turned into things taken out of context which from my experience was extremely hurtful. As newcomers to this arena that’s a lesson were going to have to learn and I find that sad. … To have it twisted, I find it personally offensive.”

    Of course, that wasn’t what the MSM reported recently, was it?

    There isn’t any attempt to shape perceptions by the press, do you think? Nah. All they do is report the news.

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  25. The State of Alaska Governor’s Budget for 2009 is $10.5 BILLION. When has Obama managed anything close to that?

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  26. htom…
    For all of his conciseness, I really think that Sun-Tzu can be boiled down to an old baseball saying:
    Hit it where they ain’t!

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  27. And Paul, on the other thread regarding your son — that’s the hardest thing a parent could face. You have my deepest admiration.

    DRJ, uh, you must mean someone else.

    I don’t have any children.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  28. The most important aspect of this whole Palin daytime TV scandal is what it tells us about McCain’s judgment. Is anyone prepared to argue that McCain had someone look carefully into her background to see if she had any nasty secrets, like, say, ties to a quasi-treasonous seccessionist organization (for example, she recorded this video for their latest convention, and her husband was a registered member until 2002, the first time Mrs. Palin ran for public office)?. Check out this quote from the AIP’s introduction page, from the party’s founder: “I’m an Alaskan, not an American. I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.”

    America first, eh?

    The most important decision McCain has made up to this point, and he can’t even be bothered to dig through his VP’s dirty laundry? Is this how he will make all decisions? Off the cuff, without looking into it at all?

    Russell (da1856)

  29. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that McCain knew Boyd. He is inside their OODA cycle.

    Mike, the OODA loop is exactly what I was getting at.

    As for McCain knowing Boyd, I wouldn’t be surprised either.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  30. Paul:

    I don’t have any children.

    I’m sorry. I confused you with Paul from Florida. It’s great to have so many fine commenters but every now and then I have trouble keeping people straight.

    DRJ (7568a2)

  31. I told you DRJ.
    You just have to buy a program if you want to keep the players straight.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  32. #25 – For liberals, it is even scarier than you state. Sarah’s 2009 Alaska budget is less than Alaska’s 2008 budget. Imagine that, the government reduces spending – an impossibility to liberals.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  33. You just have to buy a program if you want to keep the players straight.
    Comment by Another Drew — 9/2/2008 @ 5:06 pm

    Homophobe! (racist and bigot are taken, right?) 😉

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  34. That’s right, Stashiu3.
    JD has Racist!
    I’ve got Bigot!

    Don’t know if anyone has taken dibs on Homophobe.
    Good Luck with that.

    Bigot!

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  35. I’ll let someone else grab homophobe I guess. I’ve been getting too worked up lately over all the BS smears floating around and decided to cool down for a while. Others can do the fisking. I’ll go back to “mostly snark with the occasional on-point comment” mode.

    The hysteria is pretty amazing though. “Disarray” is one of the last words I would apply to McCain’s campaign right now. The terror of the Obama supporters is almost palpable.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  36. I’ll take hypocritophobe if it’s not taken (the name says it all)

    Lord Nazh (ce25e3)

  37. Jingoistic racists. Please, Leftists. Keep comparing Baracky to Gov. Palin. It is a winning argument !!!!eleventy!!!!!!

    JD (5f0e11)

  38. My Gawd, JD.
    Have you no shame, sir?
    How can you lead these unsuspecting lambs to such a slaughter?

    Racist!

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  39. “Barack Obama and out-of-touch Congressional leaders have expensive plans,” an announcer says. “Billions in new government spending. Years of deficits. No balanced budgets.”

    I defy anyone to explain how McCain is going to balance the budget.

    Russell (da1856)

  40. Spending cuts… ok defy me again, I defy you

    Lord Nazh (ce25e3)

  41. WLS, if John “Forty Second” Boyd

    My dad wondered if they managed to bring back Atwater…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)


  42. I dont usually read comments on conservative blog sites, i just stumbled onto this. Are you guys/gals for real? Scary.

    Dee from Iowa (ad0bbd)

  43. I would answer that question, but I usually don’t respond to non sequiters. Feel free to engage in a back-and-forth exchange of ideas.

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  44. Imagine that, the government reduces spending – an impossibility to liberals

    And gave $1200 to every resident to boot…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  45. Yes Dee and we’re coming by the pickup truckload to your quaint little progressive town. We’re going to lynch all your “friends of color”, force you to your knees in apocalyptic fundamentalist church tents, attach earphones to your head Clockwork Orange style and blast country shit-kicker music into your ears, force you to carry to term thirty unwanted pregnancies, tape pictures of Dick Cheyney to your Prius, steal and throw away your Sarah McLaughlin CD collection, sing patriotic songs in your town square, torch your gay bars, and eat meat and throw the bones all over the ground! WATCH OUT DEE WEEZUH COMIN’!!

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  46. 41, if you studied harder, you coulda brought that up to a C at least

    Lord Nazh (ce25e3)

  47. JD has Racist!
    I’ve got Bigot!

    Don’t know if anyone has taken dibs on Homophobe.

    *sings*
    I’ve got racist
    I’ve got bigot
    I’ve got homophobe, who could ask for anything more!

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  48. Joe Biden has spent more than half his life in the Senate. Has he accomlished anything noteworthy?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  49. “Obama did “run” the Annenberg challenge and $150 million was squandered with no positive impact on the schools. Which Swiss bank accounts did that money go to?”

    There was a guy on that board from the Union Bank of Switzerland. ZOMG OBAMA Connected to swiss banks!!!

    kirby (7c85b9)

  50. Thats the point. I havent seen one idea expressed. I guess if I am honest the few liberal comments I have viewed arent any better. I do find it frustrating though. My first reaction to McCains pick wasnt that of a liberal but as an American citizen. I was angry! Angry that he would choose someone without the experience to fill his shoes if he was elected and unable to serve out his term. I had always respected McCain even if I didnt agree on his policies.

    Dee from Iowa (ad0bbd)

  51. Spending cuts… ok defy me again, I defy you

    What is being cut, and how much does it cost, and how does it make up for McCain’s new tax cuts? He already says he won’t cut defense spending. Eliminate every earmark (which includes support for Israel), you get about $18 billion. He still has to pay for his tax cuts and on top of that, either cut 81% of Medicare or 78% of all non-defense discretionary spending.

    Again, I defy anyone to explain, in detail, how McCain is going to balance the budget.

    Russell (da1856)

  52. All right, that’s it.

    Patterico or DRJ, break out the Troll No-Pest Strip.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  53. Kobe’s Leftard act is already getting stale; just keep on going, Kobe – you’re already humiliated, let’s see if we can give you a giant Wedgee on your way out the back door.

    “Are you guys/gals for real? Scary.”

    OMG! You guys, like, did you see those people on that site that I told you about? OMG, they’re people that, like, like, uh, like, you know, like, that, that, well, they actually discuss big ideas and offer opinions on them…and stuff! They actually have beliefs and arguments to back them up, you know…and, and…THAT SCARES ME! SOMEONE COME HOLD ME, PLEAZZE!

    Dmac (874677)

  54. No dmac, didn’t you see? Dee has officially declared the entire blog an idea free zone. I hope she hasn’t wasted one extra minute of valuable time that could be spent among the circle of greater intellects in which she no doubt fancies herself a member. Maybe she has that “hello….is anyone here?” horror movie style naivete that will cause her to remain among us lesser minds that cause her so much fear. Watch out for the scary rube in the hockey mask – use your NPR shield.

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  55. “I guess if I am honest the few liberal…”

    The first clue that massive bullshit is about to follow, immediately.

    “I do find it frustrating though.”

    Because you’re a mongoloid? No dates in High School? Bad body odor? An unfortunate hairlip, perhaps?

    “My first reaction to McCains pick wasnt that of a liberal but as an American citizen. I was angry!”

    Because as we’ve already established, you are, indeed, an unmitigated idiot.

    Dmac (874677)

  56. He still has to pay for his tax cuts

    That, Russell, is why you cannot fathom a balanced budget in an McCain administration.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  57. Great post, per usual, WLS. There is one HUGE factor that is also in play – McCain helped win an unwinnable peace. Anbar was turned over on Labor Day. As most pundits say – whatever the perception on the economy is on Labor Day is the belief going to the booth. Well, McCain won a war.

    I can’t think of a non-president who everenjoyed (earned) such a thing going into an election. Ike’s accomplishment was ancient news by 1952.

    No recession, victory in Iraq, and the lamest opponent imaginable. Wow.

    Ed (f35a20)

  58. “Again, I defy anyone to explain, in detail, how McCain is going to balance the budget.”

    Since that’s already been done here, I’ll ask anyone to defy that Russell has never held down a job in the private sector, and that his knowledge of capitalism begins and ends with the works of Karl Marx. Or Groucho Marx – he seems quite confused on many issues at the same time.

    Say the magic word and the Duck gives you 50 dollars, Russell! (psst – the magic word is “Imadoofus”).

    Dmac (874677)

  59. I’ll just let you talk amongst yourselves. I thought I someone said something about exchanging ideas.

    Dee from Iowa (ad0bbd)

  60. Dee, maybe you should learn more about Sarah before you make a decision. Here are a few samples:

    Here are a few more facts that I dug up today.

    * Sarah Palin begins every day with a moment of silence for the political enemies buried in her yard.
    * Sarah Palin always beats the point spread.
    * Sarah Palin once bit the head off a live Osprey snatched from the air as it tried to fly off with a fish she caught.
    * Sarah Palin uses French Canadians as bait to catch giant king salmon.
    * When Sarah Palin booked a flight to Europe, the French immediately surrendered.
    * Sarah Palin plays Whack-a-Mole with her forehead, and always gets a perfect score.
    * Sarah Palin knows who was on the grassy knoll.
    * Sarah Palin’s finishing move in the VP debate will be pulling Biden’s still beating heart from his chest & taking a bite.

    Sorry. I didn’t mean to frighten you. But, of course, you folks are easily frightened. How about a group hug ?

    Mike K (2cf494)

  61. Dee from Iowa –

    My first reaction to McCains pick wasnt that of a liberal but as an American citizen. I was angry! Angry that he would choose someone without the experience to fill his shoes if he was elected and unable to serve out his term.

    — That’s a judgment call. Suggestion: investigate her career further; investigate the responsibilities of a state governor further; do not deny, accept and acknowledge the fact that she has more experience – and more accomplishments – than the presidential candidate of the other party.

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  62. Dee – Don’t drop yet another non sequiter/ad hominem attack combo and then run away. Stay and talk.

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  63. Ok Dee, I’ll bite…

    If Palin is so inexperianced that it bothers you that she may have to serve out the remainder of McCain’s term…

    What’s your opinion on the fact that the Dem’s nominee for PotUS has, shall we say, a fairly shally resume?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  64. Yes Dee. See here’s the problem. When you debut with “Scary” do you not realize that you are opening yourself to be called on that? Do you not realize that pulling that holier-than-thou act as if you’re above what you consider rubbish that someone is going to inevitably rag somewhat colorfully on you my-shit-doesn’t-stink attitude?

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  65. “I thought I someone said something about exchanging ideas.”

    I see – so when you intially meet a stranger at a party or social gathering, the first thing you say to their face is “I think you’re scary!”

    Do you honestly think you’d get any kind of reaction other than what you witnessed here? The only thing you’re not experiencing is the visual reaction of disgust if such a question was offered.

    Make sense?

    Dmac (874677)

  66. That, Russell, is why you cannot fathom a balanced budget in an McCain administration.

    Where’s he getting the money? What programs is he going to cut? According to the Tax Policy Center, McCain’s proposals would reduce government revenue by $1,477.3 billion over his first term, on top of the ~$410 billion deficit this year. By the end of his second term, it’s $4,170.5 billion in lost revenue. Balancing the budget without touching the military would basically require gutting every other domestic program.

    Russell (da1856)

  67. I’ll just let you talk amongst yourselves.

    Why do you find it necessary to put that in a comment?

    I thought I someone said something about exchanging ideas.

    What’s your contribution to the free exchange of ideas, besides immediately denouncing other commenters as scary and repeating the inexperience line that’s been thoroughly debunked?

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  68. Dee, bring up some ideas, and ignore the people who insult you. Perhaps you could take a crack at balancing John McCain’s budget.

    Russell (da1856)

  69. Russell, since you don’t care for “quasi-treasonous” organizations, you’ll obviously not vote for Obama since he’s associated with an actual domestic terrorist.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  70. Balancing the budget without touching the military would basically require gutting every other domestic program.

    My, aren’t we dramatic! What, you think there isn’t any government waste?

    If you don’t, I’m not surprised, since you cite a study done by the Tax Policy Center:

    The Tax Policy Center is a non-partisan joint venture of The Urban Institute and The Brookings Institution.

    Non-partisan my Aunt Fanny.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  71. As I recall, the Tax Policy Center found Obama’s budget to be “unbalanced” to the tune of trillions too.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  72. Dee, bring up some ideas, and ignore the people who insult you.

    That’s right. Forget the fact that you insulted commenters here upon your immediate arrival and spouted debunked talking points.

    Paul (ac3cf3)

  73. Russell,

    Since tax cuts have been shown to increase revenue, not decrease it, the entire premise of your argument is flawed. Everyone who has enacted tax cuts, including Kennedy, saw revenue increase. Also, McCain is not talking about cutting taxes to zero, although I have seen liberals suggest a 100% tax on any income over $5,000,000 a year.

    For anyone who has a job that paid over 5 mill/yr, you can bet that once they reached that limit, so would their work-tolerance. Why would you work for free (actually, at a slight loss, but why quibble?) so that their company could pay the government for the work you do?

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  74. Russell –

    Balancing the budget without touching the military would basically require gutting every other domestic program.

    GOOD!!!

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  75. $66:

    Balancing the budget without touching the military would basically require gutting every other domestic program.

    You say that like it’s a bad thing …

    More seriously, I might do that, but McCain won’t so your argument is moot.

    And considering that a balanced budget isn’t actually necessary for the continued health and prosperity of the US, I’d settle just for starting in that direction.

    EW1(SG) (ae500e)

  76. “Since tax cuts have been shown to increase revenue, not decrease it, the entire premise of your argument is flawed. ”

    Oh. So Obama can pay for his programs with tax cuts too! More wars and more welfare and more tax cuts!

    kirby (76ee1f)

  77. Oh. So Obama can pay for his programs with tax cuts too! More wars and more welfare and more tax cuts!

    Then why hasn’t he suggested any?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  78. “Billions in new government spending. Years of deficits. No balanced budgets.”

    – Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five-Pound Bag Advertisement

    Have these morons been living on a fucking island for the past 6 years or so?

    Leviticus (ef571a)

  79. Leviticus… Where did you get that? not finding it…

    Though I’m not looking too hard… Listening to my man Fred…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  80. Fred Thompson just gave a fantastic speech at the RNC. I wish that he’d given speeches of that quality during the primary – he’d be the nominee today instead of McCain.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  81. “Then why hasn’t he suggested any?”

    Because then he’d be fooling you. it doesn’t work. Its a swindle. Ask Mankiw, Bush’s chief economic adviser, who estimates that tax cuts are at best 50% self financing.

    kirby (fd73f6)

  82. Thompson just kicked Obama’s (and the DNC’s) ass!

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  83. “Dee, bring up some ideas, and ignore the people who insult you.”

    Yeah, that’s the ticket – insult everyone upon first commenting, then have Russell the Mynah Bird chirp in with his earnest and heartfelt empathy. Oooh, there I go again, what a baaad man I am!

    Dmac (874677)

  84. Olberdouche is apoplectic. Militaristic. Guns propped up next to him.

    Lieberman’s speech is going to make Olberman’s head assplode.

    JD (5f0e11)

  85. Let me guess: Olbermann refers to Lieberman as an INDEPENDENT . . . democrat.

    Icy Truth (d9ccad)

  86. 50, Dee, I’d say you are a member of Tom Harkin’s slime squad. You have no ideas, just taxes to impose upon the people while taking away their individual freedoms.

    PCD, From Dubuque, Iowa.

    PCD (5c49b0)

  87. Royalties from the oil and gas, and at the same time we could break OPEC.

    Hazy (d671ab)

  88. Leviticus…
    Just what island have the Dems been isolated on?
    I need to know so that I can block it in my Chart-Plot – wouldn’t want to stumble upon it, no telling what communicable deseases run rampant there.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  89. Since tax cuts have been shown to increase revenue, not decrease it, the entire premise of your argument is flawed.

    Wrong. That is preposterously wrong. See here:

    Treasury Department Study Finds the Bush Tax Cuts Will Pay For Less Than 10 Percent of Their Cost

    According to CBO’s official cost estimate, the Administration’s proposal to make the tax cuts enacted since 2001 permanent would cost 1.4 percent of GDP annually. (This does not include the AMT relief that the Administration proposes on an annual basis, which would bring the total cost to 2 percent of GDP.)

    According to the Mid-Session Review, the tax cuts would have positive long-term economic effects that would raise national income by “as much as” 0.7 percent over the long term. With tax receipts projected to be about 18 percent of national income, this translates into an increase in revenues of as much as 0.13 percent of GDP.a In this scenario, which assumes that the tax cuts are financed by future cuts in government spending, the tax cuts would cost about 1.27 percent of GDP annually — or more than 90 percent of the conventional cost estimate. (Under Treasury’s alternative financing scenario, the tax cuts would actually reduce national income over the long run.)

    Despite the enthusiasm for destroying the government here, McCain has proposed no such cuts. Why? Because it would be hugely unpopular. He’s trying to have it both ways, and there’s no way in hell he’s going to balance the budget. No one can show me how he’s going to do it, because you can’t.

    We already pay $237 billion/year on the deficit, and McCain proposes to increase it by $5 trillion. Obama isn’t a lot better–he’ll increase it by $3.5 trillion–but that’s still a trillion and a half difference. At least we won’t be pouring it into the Iraq sinkhole for 100 years.

    Russell (da1856)

  90. Russell, I see you still repeating discredited Obama lies about McCain’s positions.

    Unimpressive. You need to get a refund on your talking points from the supplier.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  91. Minus Obama’s new refund tax!

    Icy Truth (d9ccad)

  92. Virtually every DC policy house (which includes the various gov’t accounting orgs, also), when extrapolating economic data, uses what is known as a static model, that does not reflect the changes in human behavior that occurrs when taxes are either raised or lowered.
    This is how they always predict increased revenues from higher taxes, and vice versa.
    Then, they scratch themselves silly trying to explain why revenues decrease when taxes are raised, or why they increase when rates are lowered.
    You get a much better picture when the rate changes are scored using a dynamic model; but, then you would have to have a bed-rock belief that the economic behavior of people is influenced by tax-rates.
    Libs don’t acknowledge that taxpayers are anything other than serfs who are there for the pleasure of the government.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  93. BTW, Russell…
    You need to go out into the economy and start a business. Then, after you have scratched and dug to survive the taxes and regulations thrown into your path towards success, and actually survive, you can come back and tell us how government, and the tax policies of Liberals, will increase freedom and prosperity throughout the land.
    Until you’ve done that, be quiet and observe.
    You might learn something.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  94. Russell, I see you still repeating discredited Obama lies about McCain’s positions.

    Which parts are lies, and who discredited them? Anytime you feel like pointing out something wrong in what I’ve said, feel free. I’ll be waiting, arugula in hand.

    Still no one has been able to answer my original challenge of showing how McCain is going to balance the budget. Actually, no one has even tried. Instead, I learned that I’ve never held down a job in the private sector and I’ve confused Karl and Groucho Marx. Oh, and the Tax Policy Center must be super-biased, so they’re probably not worth listening to.

    No one can balance the McCain budget, and you know he’s not going to gut the entire government. It’s going to be more of the so-called fiscal conservativism of having your cake and eating it too–huge tax cuts, and little to no spending cuts.

    Russell (da1856)

  95. Balancing either candidate’s budget is a dream. Eliminating the national debt is a nightmare.

    htom (412a17)

  96. Russell, your line: “At least we won’t be pouring it into the Iraq sinkhole for 100 years.” is a lie.

    It is based on Obama campaign lies about McCain’s statement. It is of the same level of misrepresentation we see from you here.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  97. Russell – Have you worked in the private sector? I asked you to correct something I said on another thread if I was wrong about you being an academic. I didn’t see any correction noted.

    According to information on another blog, Palin vetoed something like 300 pork projects in her first year as governor. I’m sure she and McCain out to be able to find a little surplus spending in Washington, don’t you Russell. That probably scares the crap out of people.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  98. Well, one thing you have to consider Russell.
    Who will be the majority party in either the House or Senate.
    Since, constitutionally, all taxing and spending bills have to originate in the House, who runs the Ways and Means Cmte. is very important as to what type of legislation is going to come out of that committee. Then, of course, who is going to be the Chairman of Appropriations where earmarks are king?
    If power is split between the House and Senate, we could see a lot of appropriations die in the battle between the two houses of Congress.
    Also, we don’t know how strongly a Pres. McCain will wield the veto pen, though I would suspect he will be much more willing to use it than GW has been.
    But, at a guess, I would think that most any earmark is going to be a red-flag that will prompt a veto of an appropriation bill.
    It might be interesting to watch cmte chairmen go into full cardiac arrest after seeing the major appropriation bills slammed back onto their desk with a big red “no” over Mr. McCain’s signature, with a note: Try Again!
    Plus, if you really dig, I think you’ll find that ear-marks add up to hundreds of billions of Dollars, not the $18B you, or someone, cited.
    Do you actually know the total proposed spending for the gov’t for this fiscal year which starts 10/1?
    Last I looked it is $2.7T
    $2,700,000,000,000.00
    The projected deficit is what? $410B?
    That’s around 15% of the total.
    Do you think you could find, say, 5-cents on the dollar to save? That would be $135B+
    I’ll bet that you could save $100B on just consulting contracts, and another $100B on grants to NGO’s.
    Get a copy of the current, FY-08 budget and look at the numbers.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  99. Then, they scratch themselves silly trying to explain why revenues decrease when taxes are raised, or why they increase when rates are lowered.

    Tax cuts do not always increase revenue. They almost never do that. The study I cited in #89 showed that the Bush tax cuts only paid for about 10% of their cost to the government. McCain proposes further cuts. If we’re already on the left side of the Laffer curve, more cuts are going to pay for themselves even less.

    See also here and here. Even Greg Mankiw, former chairman of Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors, is aware that kind of extremist supply-side dogma is completely ridiculous.

    You need to go out into the economy and start a business. Then, after you have scratched and dug to survive the taxes and regulations thrown into your path towards success, and actually survive, you can come back and tell us how government, and the tax policies of Liberals, will increase freedom and prosperity throughout the land.
    Until you’ve done that, be quiet and observe.
    You might learn something.

    This is a complete non sequitur. But since you brought it up, I work in a family business. I help manage the books. I wish you wouldn’t make assumptions about what I know or what I’ve done. You don’t know the first thing about me, and I don’t know the first thing about you, so leave off the arrogant advice column, huh?

    Russell (da1856)

  100. Geez Russell, no need to get snippy. Back when you were supporting San Fran opening heroin injection centers I believe you claimed you said you were studying chemistry and said heroin was OK as long as it was pure enough based on your research. Do I have that wrong?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  101. Well, if you manage your parent’s books, Russell.
    I hope you bone up on tax law. And, on how tax-rates effect economic performance.
    From what you have said to us on this thread,
    you don’t have a clue.
    And, you’re right, I don’t know the first thing about you except what you have revealed here to everyone. And that (what we/I observe) is pretty pathetic.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  102. Russell, your line: “At least we won’t be pouring it into the Iraq sinkhole for 100 years.” is a lie.

    Well, at most, it’s an exaggeration. Obama promises withdrawal, McCain indefinite occupation. He did say for a while that it was okay to stay in Iraq for 100 years if necessary.

    Russell – Have you worked in the private sector? I asked you to correct something I said on another thread if I was wrong about you being an academic. I didn’t see any correction noted.

    My personal life in none of your business, but for what it’s worth, I am not an academic. I did go to college, but I work in the construction business. What do you care, anyway?

    #98: Again you provide no details, just vague speculation. You assume we can find $410 billion (you forgot that McCain proposes another $300 billion in cuts), but you don’t say where. Of course spending bills originate in the Congress, but that is not my point. Every president submits a budget proposal, and McCain’s is ludicrously unbalanced.

    Russell (da1856)

  103. Say Russell, do you have a copy of McCain’s proposed budget?
    Has he actually put out a White Paper on what he is proposing, or is it just a bunch of campaign rhetoric?
    If you have something solid to work with, why don’t you show us how it should be assembled?
    How much for Defense?
    How much for Interior?
    How much for Agriculture/
    etc, etc, etc,
    Show us you have something positive to contribute.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  104. I’m done studying chemistry. Got my degree. Right now I’m swinging a hammer for a while.

    I hope you bone up on tax law. And, on how tax-rates effect economic performance.
    From what you have said to us on this thread,
    you don’t have a clue.
    And, you’re right, I don’t know the first thing about you except what you have revealed here to everyone. And that (what we/I observe) is pretty pathetic.

    I know enough about tax law to run a (very) small business. And if you would cite a single peer-reviewed study, textbook, or even something you saw carved into the stall while you were taking a crap, I’d be more than happy to learn all the supply-side theory you can put forth. Find me an economist who thinks we’re on the left side of the Laffer curve. Or, continue to call me “pathetic.” I can tell you, I’m almost convinced. Maybe if you start insulting my family too, I’ll just bow down before your superior logic.

    As Nobel laureate James Tobin said, “the ‘Laffer Curve’ idea that tax cuts would actually increase revenues turned out to deserve the ridicule with which sober economists had greeted it in 1981.”

    Russell (da1856)

  105. #100 Russell

    Well, at most, it’s an exaggeration. Obama promises withdrawal, McCain indefinite occupation. He did say for a while that it was okay to stay in Iraq for 100 years if necessary.

    McCain said “as long as Americans are not fighting, being injured or being killed it would be fine with him to maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world.”

    Obama’s latest “promise” is to withdraw combat troops over a 16 month period. He has also said that he would send them back into Iraq if they are needed.

    Stu707 (7fb2e7)

  106. Ooops. That should be Russell at 102. Sorry, Daley.

    Stu707 (7fb2e7)

  107. Here is McCain’s budget proposal. I’m not giving you a budget proposal, because I’m not running for president. My point is that McCain’s budget is ridiculous faux-fiscal conservative hooey.

    Russell (da1856)

  108. Oh, well, I’m done.
    Put down by a quote of a Nobel Laureate.
    The Disgrace.

    You want proof that raising taxes is destructive?
    Look at what happened in CA under Pete Wilson (1991-93).
    He raised taxes, fees, and everything else he could get his grubby little hands on, in a declining economy, and tax revenue plummetted. It was two years, or more, before revenue got back to where it was at a lower rate.
    And, he pushed millions of tax-payers into relocating to more tax-friendly climes.
    That’s what an unfriendly tax environment does, and contributed to the problems that the state has today.

    BTW, have you ever read Arthur Laffer’s work?
    You seem to be full of dismissals of his work; but, do you know anything that he was correct about?
    I suppose that Freidman’s work is suspect also?

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  109. #107…
    Thanks.
    I’m printing it out now, will review it tomorrow, and post back on my thoughts.

    Another Drew (dbf36d)

  110. BTW:

    Back when you were supporting San Fran opening heroin injection centers I believe you claimed you said you were studying chemistry and said heroin was OK as long as it was pure enough based on your research. Do I have that wrong?

    I never said based on my own personal research, only based on the literature I had read. I did say something to that effect, though.

    Russell (da1856)

  111. MagicalPat:
    If the McCain campaign is in such disarray, then how come I have made TWO contributions to McCain/Palin in the last three days? I had not gotten off my wallet once during this election till Friday.

    I wonder how many more are just like me?

    Some disarray.

    I’m another example.

    I’ve been ignoring letters from Republican candidates, including McCain, for the past two years.

    After he selected Palin, who has been my favorite option for VP for months, I went to his Web site and donated.

    After the attacks on Trig and Bristol, I went back and gave 6 times as much.

    I hope the Democrats stop smearing the Palin family soon, I’m not sure I how much more I can afford.

    GaryC (b3f840)

  112. Russell, #107 …
    First off, I’m not impressed with Mr. Tobin, Nobel Laureate or not. The good professor is a Keynesian economist who supports an economic theory that is only slightly less discredited than the Marxist theory that it was drawn to combat.

    My personal choices for economic theory are Milton Freidman, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams and others of the “Chicago School”; and yes, that includes Arthur Laffer. Also, Mr. Tobin is no longer with us, and I find it difficult to rely on his analysis of the Laffer Curve in the 80’s where that application of economic theory to our economy resulted in one of the longest peace-time economic expansions in our history – one that was more successful than when FDR and his Brain-Trust imposed Keynesian Economics on the American society in the 30’s.

    But, to the task at hand:
    Perhaps you missed the evaluation of the McCain Economic Package that appeared in the WSJ yesterday http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122031215585888783.html?mod=googlenews_wsj, written by Martin Feldstein and John B. Taylor, economists of some note.
    Also, you might have missed the endorsement of this plan by 300 noted economists http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/C90681B9-5DFE-4DE4-8057-CEEDB30C228D.htm.

    Now, I’m fond of a (probably apocryphal) quote from Harry Truman, that he was interested in meeting a one-armed economist for he was tired of the usual response from economists of “on the other hand”. So, I can recognize that not every economist in America is going to support the plan put forward by the McCain Campaign. But, a lot of this boils down to the static/dynamic model conflict.

    One point that the Plan pushes is the renewed enforcement of the 1997 Balanced Budget Agreement between a GOP Congress and William Clinton that, after working in one year, 1998, was promptly scuttled by both parties because it was too painful and denied them the opportunity to reward favored factions. As it is explained in the document you provided a link (wish I knew how to do that, congratulations) to in the 3rd from last paragraph, by holding spending increases to just 2.4%, this target can be met.

    Now, in DC, anytime increases are held to a figure lower than the projected base-line (you are up on base-line budgeting, I assume), it is decried as a “cut” in spending. But, if you are to get spending under control, it (increases) have to be held to a lower figure than the base-line, for the base-line figure is an artificial construct of a Congress 20-years (or more) ago.

    But, if you look at the GDP percentages that The Plan wishes to hold taxing and spending levels to, it is doable; and, will allow economic growth to bring the budget into balance, or at least to a number that would be un-imaginable just a few years ago. Point-in-fact: As has been mentioned by another commenter, having the Federal Budget in-balance is usually a pipe-dream and un-necessary. However, it would be nice if we could knock down the National Debt on occasion, and have some budgetary discipline on Capitol Hill.

    Overall, I find no real problem with this Plan. It will require Congress to stop some of the more egregious practices that they have honed to a fine-point over the years; but, I think the taxpayers are a little tired of the games that go on in the appropriations process.

    Overall, I think the majority of the opposition to this plan is of the “gored-ox” type. By cutting off the ear-mark express, a lot of people on K-Street are going to have to take in their designer belts a notch or two; but, they too will survive, just not as well as they have become used to.

    Good Luck, in your future economic endeavors.

    Another Drew (12a355)


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